March 1, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, we delve into the escalating fentanyl crisis with retired DEA Agent Brian Townsend, exploring its origins, impact, and potential solutions. Given the recent deployment of U.S. military forces to the southern border to combat drug trafficking and illegal immigration, Brian provides a timely perspective on these developments.
Key Discussion Points:
Origins and Impact: Understanding how fentanyl became a prevalent and dangerous drug in communities across the United States.
Role of Drug Cartels: Examining the involvement of cartels in the production and distribution of fentanyl and their influence on the drug trade.
Law Enforcement Challenges: Discussing the obstacles faced by law enforcement agencies in curbing the spread of fentanyl and dismantling trafficking networks.
Community Protection: Offering advice on how individuals and communities can safeguard themselves against the dangers of fentanyl.
Personal Experiences: Brian shares firsthand accounts from his career in drug enforcement and insights into effective strategies to address the crisis.
Recent Developments:
The U.S. government has intensified efforts to secure the southern border, deploying thousands of active-duty soldiers and National Guard members. This military presence aims to deter illegal crossings and combat drug smuggling operations. Additionally, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has warned Mexican officials of potential unilateral action against drug cartels if Mexico fails to address the flow of fentanyl into the U.S. These measures underscore the administration's commitment to tackling the fentanyl crisis and securing the border.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Wake Up with Patty katter Patty Katter, a place
where light overcomes darkness. Here we share powerful stories
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(00:22):
Hello everybody. Thank you for joining my show
again this week. And today I have Brian Townsend
on the show with me. We're going to tackle a tough
topic, a very important topic. But Brian, first, let's have you
tell my guests a little bit about yourself.
Yeah. Good morning.
Happy to be here. So my name is.
Brian Townsend. I grew up in Northern.
(00:45):
Virginia, right outside of Washington.
DC and after high. School I packed my bags and
drove to. Joplin, MO.
Where I went to college. So that was.
That was really my reinvention, as I call it.
I was kind of a shy. Kid not a standout not.
Academically, not athletically. Not a lot of friends, close
(01:09):
friends, loyal friends, but you know, not a popular kid or
anything. Like that and just wanted to to
do more and see more. And really get out of.
My shell and. And.
So I went to the middle of the. Country.
I knew one. Person.
It was another classmate of minewho.
Did the same thing and and it was a great.
Experience a. Couple degrees later, I decided
(01:32):
to go into. To law enforcement, I was a
police officer in Joplin, MO. In the 1990s.
For about 5 years. Great department, great
experience, but my dream. My goal was.
The Drug Enforcement Administration.
The DEA. So in 1999 I was able to.
Accomplish that dream. Went to DEA and then with my
(01:54):
DEA. Career I.
Spent the next 23 years of my law enforcement career.
I spent. The first ten years in Little
Rock, AR and then I went to Corpus Christi, TX and worked
along the southwest border and then I went to Quantico,
Virginia where I was in. Charge of most in.
Service training and got to start the leadership and
(02:14):
development. Training unit for DEA in the 10.
1000 people in our workforce andthen the last couple years I
returned to Missouri which I which I.
Call home. You know I like I.
Said I grew up in Virginia, but going to Missouri Was was, was.
A big, big. Moment in my.
In my life and I was able to come back.
(02:36):
And finish my career there with.DEA, my last couple.
Years I was the resident agent in charge.
Of the Springfield, MO. DEA office, which means.
I was in charge. Of the DEA.
Office and the Several 2526. Counties in southwest Missouri,
Missouri that that we cover. So I I had a great job, love
(02:56):
DEA, but I just. Felt like.
I needed to start the next chapter of my life.
And and had a. Passion for.
Training and teaching and. So I.
Opened up my. Own training business, Eagle.
Six training and training and consulting.
And speaking and that's been going really well.
And and then that led to a. Part time job.
With a an organization. Called mid States.
(03:17):
Organized Crime Information Center and it's.
That's part of a a greater system called the risk center or
system and. I won't bore you with the
details, but our job is to support.
Law enforcement. Across the United States.
You know we have a. Analytical equipment and other
services that a lot of law enforcement our.
(03:38):
Agencies just can't afford. So I went to work with them part
time as a law. Enforcement Training Coordinator
and. A lot of what they wanted me to
develop was drug training, whichis obviously my lane, right,
something I did. At DEA for for a long.
Time and. It's something I did in my my 30
year law. Enforcement career, right, so.
(03:59):
I started to develop. Drug Enforcement or drug?
Training and then that led to developing opioid training and.
That just took off. And then that's the.
Another hat I wear I. End up starting a nonprofit
organization called Only. 2MG only, 2MG signifying.
That only 2 milligrams of fentanyl is enough.
(04:21):
To kill you. I'm the executive.
Director and the Board of Directors is all retired.
DEA agents and our goal. Is to empower.
Communities to save lives. We want to.
Provide drug education and drug awareness specifically.
About fentanyl and help people. So that's a that's, that's my
life. Wow, you know, fentanyl is a
(04:43):
really big deal. A couple weeks ago, I met a
gentleman and his son died from fentanyl.
And you know, not a lot of people actually know how to even
recognize fentanyl, right? So I've heard about it.
I come from a law enforcement family.
I've been a police reservist andmarried to a law enforcement
(05:06):
officer and all of the things. But you know, I'm sitting here
thinking about it and I'm like, how do you recognize fentanyl?
Because it is such a small amount that could sneak into
probably almost anything. Is that right?
That's correct. And the problem with fentanyl is
it's odorless. It's tasteless.
So most people who, in fact, most people.
(05:27):
Who are are? Being poisoned by drugs and
dying. Have no idea that they're
getting fentanyl. You know they're ordering.
What they thought was heroin or.Cocaine or methamphetamine or
pills. You know Percocets.
And it. Doesn't have to be an opioid, by
the way. Valium.
You know oxycodone. Whatever the whatever.
(05:48):
The pill is. There's a good.
Chance there's a counterfeit. And then there's a counterfeit.
There's a good chance there's fentanyl or methamphetamine or
some other type of garbage, so. So how do you how do you
identify that? Yeah, it's, it's almost nearly
impossible. And like I said, if you look at
the overall numbers of people that we're.
Losing in this country. Every year, which is over 100.
1000 people. A year to drugs.
(06:09):
About 2/3 of those people are because of.
Fentanyl so. That means about 75,000.
People a year lose their lives to 1 drug and again this is a
drug that's. Sneaked its way into.
Our drug supply. DEA estimates.
That it's in about. 70% of our drug supply.
You know it's. It's in our methamphetamine.
It's in our. Cocaine.
(06:30):
It's certainly replaced heroin. And.
It's all over our. Pills.
Our counterfeit pills. And like I said, tasteless.
Odorless. No even distribution.
And it only takes. 2 milligrams,it's guiding.
Into your system. It's got to get into.
That into that bloodstream. To do its harm, but if you're
someone who consumes illegal substances then you're taking a
(06:51):
risk every time you do that. I even read something not that
long ago about an officer. I believe it was maybe in
Bradenton or Manatee County and I'm probably going to get the
story messed up a little bit because it was a while back, but
it seemed like the officer was exposed to it on a drug bust,
not even realizing it. Is that a thing or or maybe
(07:13):
media or what is that about? It's actually not a thing.
I mean, it's happened, but we now know.
Through a lot of research. That none of those.
Officers were actually. Exposed to fentanyl and and
early on that used to be very. Controversial to say.
But 99? .999.
Percent of the law enforcement officers I talked to.
(07:34):
They understand that. You know you've been in law.
Enforcement more than. Than two minutes if you've been
exposed to. Fentanyl and and you're.
OK, so being. Around fentanyl, touching
fentanyl. Which I do not recommend, but in
the event that it did. Touch your skin.
You're not going to. Die.
You're not going to overdose. I'm happy those.
(07:56):
Officers are are safe. I'm not trying to minimize what.
They believe they went through. But we know that none.
Of their toxicology reports havebeen positive.
For fentanyl, none. There have been no cases of.
First responder overdosing from fentanyl.
We hear about them especially. Certainly in the past we heard
about them. And we occasionally still hear
(08:17):
about them. Every so often.
But none of that's been. Confirmed and there's.
Like I said, there's a lot of this isn't this isn't.
Just my opinion. There's, there's a lot of
evidence that supports that and.You know I love DEA.
I had a great. DEA career and still.
Involved with with some things with my DEA family, but in 2016.
(08:37):
When we put that information out, we.
Were wrong. You know we were.
Airing a lot on the side of caution and.
We thought we were correct, You know we weren't.
Intentionally trying to. To to scare the public.
That. You know, fentanyl was dangerous
to be. Around but.
But we now know. Through, you know, almost 10
years of. Research that that it's
incorrect so. What about, you know, you
(09:00):
probably seen something on social media about a woman going
and looking in the parking lot and finding like a dollar bill
on the ground and picking it up and all of a sudden, you know,
they're passing out. Is that a thing?
No, it's not a thing. It absolutely has to get in, has
to go through a mucous membrane.You know, you know whether you
take it orally, sniff it or. Snort it.
(09:23):
I should say or or or. Inject it.
It's got to get. Into your blood supply.
I do. Some some work consulting.
Work and and I've I've been. An expert witness.
In different trials. And things like that.
And I had. One not too long ago and they
ended up not. Testifying or not?
Calling you the stand but but wehad a a child custody battle
(09:46):
where the. Child's mother was struggling
from from substance. Use.
And she was testing positive. For fentanyl.
And she claimed. That just being around.
Drugs made her test positive and.
It just. Just doesn't happen and.
And, you know, happily. Testify that that just doesn't
(10:07):
happen and. The defense attorney thank.
Or not the defense attorney. Her attorney.
Thankfully gave her some. Some good advice and said you
need you need to drop that that bogus claim.
I can think of a. Couple more.
Of. An.
Employee for a large. Organization who tested
positive. On a random drug.
Screen and. Said the same.
Thing that they were. Just around it.
(10:28):
And and no, absolutely not. Again, a very.
Dangerous substance. I don't want to.
Minimize that at all, you know. Wear proper PPEI.
Wear nitrile. Gloves.
Always I would never. Recommend.
Touching fentanyl or any? Illicit substance, for that
matter. I always.
Wore PPE and for me it was nitrile.
(10:49):
Gloves. But like I said, in the event
that. I don't know it.
Tears or you don't have it or somehow.
There's skin contact. You're going to be OK.
You know, when I was growing up,we had all these commercials say
no to drugs, you know, in the 80s.
And it was a terrifying thing toeven think about trying a drug.
(11:10):
So in my case, I was always too afraid to try anything,
thankfully. And I know that there are people
out there, they're just kind of looking for something to either
have fun or to kind of ease their mental or physical pains.
And it kind of escalates into a drug problem, but alive.
I just know that I, if, if I touch drugs, I wouldn't have had
(11:31):
to worry about the drugs killingme.
I think my parents would have. So I, I never got into that.
But when you're dealing with, you know, the drug busts and
things like that, Can you tell me one of the hardest stories
maybe that you witnessed yourself when it came to, you
(11:52):
know, having to, to deal with a drug bust?
Because for me, I'm like, happy if you find drugs, I'm happy
that you're getting them off thestreet.
But there must be some of the struggles too when you're seeing
people being destroyed by drugs.Yeah, We've seen a seen a lot of
families who've been impacted bythis, a lot of communities
impacted by this and it always breaks.
Your heart, especially when it's.
(12:13):
Especially when it's the kids. I think those.
Are the hardest. You know DEA our our task.
Is to work. The the biggest baddest.
In drug organizations. So we're not.
Always dealing with that end user if you will, you know but.
But I certainly. Have in my DEA.
Career and I certainly. Did in the. 5 short years I was
(12:35):
a police officer in Joplin. And I've.
Worked with a lot. Of.
Families over the last few yearsin my role.
With only two MG and and it. It always breaks.
Your heart when? We don't think about the impact
that the family has. Or that the family feels right
the. Profound impact.
Especially when they lose someone they love.
(12:55):
And that's the hardest, and that's one of the reasons.
That really motivates me to to do what I do.
I'm probably the only. Nonprofit drug awareness in the
drug awareness. Space that didn't lose.
A child. In this In this.
Crisis and I'm not. I'm happy that there.
(13:15):
Are a lot of nonprofits. In this same space.
That are doing what they. Do so.
I'm not trying to set you know, but.
But there it's. It's a reactive thing, you know
they've. Lost a child?
And and now they're they're giving back and.
Trying to prevent that. Pain.
And that's a. Wonderful thing.
Please, I'm not minimizing that at all, but I I want to do
(13:36):
something a little different. I want to say, hey, we need to
be. We need to.
Care about this? Regardless of our circumstances.
You know, we need to, we need togive a damn about.
Each other, you know we need to.Have some empathy and some
compassion. In this world and.
And I think a lot of that if youreally start peeling away that
those. Layers.
Comes from the fact that I just.Constantly saw and dealt with so
(13:57):
many people who. Who lost loved ones in their in
their life and. And I guess this is my way of
just kind of giving back and maybe helping them and helping.
Others to, to hopefully prevent that pain.
I, I do love that because it's not being a reactive, it's very
proactive. And the other thing that I like
(14:18):
is, you know, with me, I've donea lot of, I'll use this example
military advocacy right in the military.
I wasn't in the military so I could go all the way to the top
and get things done. Whereas you know, the military
members, they have to start withtheir chain of command.
And I'm like, Nope, I'm going uphere.
And, and you know, I, I have found personally that that's a
(14:40):
very good way to get things done.
And so for you addressing it from the very top so that the
after effects are easier to dealwith, I think that's good.
I am curious without getting too, too political, you know,
what's your stand on? We had these different laws and
(15:01):
we had these different problems at the border, and now all of a
sudden, our military's at the border to help seal up the
border. Do you think that that's going
to be beneficial? I mean, obviously, you're still
going to have a lot of work to do within our country and to
keep drugs off of the street. But I am kind of curious, since
all, you know, all the news headlines right now have to do
(15:24):
with border Closings, keep the, you know, illegals out.
What's your stance? I'm not political, but I'm going
to give you my, my, my opinion on this.
And first of all. I I can absolutely demonize
these cartels and China and all these.
Traffickers and all these. Evil people that.
(15:44):
Are that are wrecking havoc on our.
Societies. But at the end of the day, we we
have to control the, the demand,you know, until we eliminate the
demand. For.
Drugs. We'll always.
Have bad actors willing to exploit us.
You know, we, the United States makes up.
For a little over 4% of the world's.
Population, yet we have most drug consumption.
(16:06):
In this country, so. That that's ultimately that's
the solution we got to, we got to reduce the demand, but.
As far as the border. Goes I'm excited to see what's
going to happen. I am I The argument has been
that the people coming over. The border are bringing.
Fentanyl and and they're correct.
A lot of them. Aren't.
The problem though is when you dive into the numbers and you
(16:29):
dive into the. Work our.
Resources are so. Thin because of that, you know I
was down on the. Border from 2:00. 1009 to 2016
with Dai was. Down there a lot, you know, our
office was in Corpus, but most of our work was.
Along the border, so I'm very familiar with with how things
operate. There and how the cartels
(16:51):
operate there and. And you know, during my time
down there, 250. 300. 1000 people a year.
Were crossing the border. Illegally and.
Which is a lot right over the last 3-4 years, you know that's.
Number has that number has increased to one point. 5 to 2
million and I can tell you that the the the.
(17:13):
Customs and Border Patrol and all the.
And all the law. Enforcement agencies.
Down there haven't increased their their organizational size.
They're doing a lot. More with a lot less.
So yes, I, I, I, I can, I can appreciate the the the
discussion that or the the position that a.
Lot of these folks aren't bringing fentanyl or illicit
(17:34):
things with them over the border.
I get that but the problem is isif if I'm a boss and I have
limited resources and they are tied up with this nonsense.
Then it does. Prevent me from going.
After the fentanyl. Going after the guns, going
after the other. Criminal activity and that's.
(17:55):
The problem so so I'm I'm positive.
About this I hope. It's a good.
Thing And that's not a politicalstance, that's just I want, I
want. What's best for?
America, I want what's best for our.
Communities so if. Our.
Resources our law enforcement. Assets can.
Concentrate or have more? Time to devote resources.
To the criminal activity becausethere's.
(18:16):
Less of the other stuff. Well, that's a win.
Win for America. And we should all stand behind
that. And I'll say something else.
About the border. You know we've been.
Securing our border. Since 1920.
Four 100 years. This has been.
Supported by both. Parties.
It's been funded by both parties, you know, we made out
of. Call them walls before.
(18:36):
But we call them. Barriers.
We've grown sensors, cameras. I mean, we use a lot of
technology and we've been doing this since 1924.
So this. Isn't a new thing, but we want
we always confuse border security and immigration and I
know they that they they run. Parallel.
I get that. But you could actually.
(18:57):
Believe in an an open immigration, but you can.
Also believe in border. Security, that's.
Not a new thing, it's not a political thing, but sadly over
the last couple years we've madeit into a political thing.
So it's really difficult to havethe discussion without people
getting emotional, without people getting angry and, and I
think that's a disservice. To all of us.
Because. We can find common ground, and
(19:19):
we can. We can.
We can look for. Solutions and like I.
Said at the end of the day, secure America and make our
communities and safer again, andthat's ultimately what we
should. Be doing right?
Absolutely. And it is kind of funny because
I even hate using the word political, but it has done a lot
of controversy there, you know, with these terms being thrown
(19:40):
into the political arena, and they really shouldn't be.
We are going to take a quick commercial break and come back.
I have some more questions for you.
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theblackfeatherfoundation.org. All right, welcome back.
So one question I ask all of my guests, Ryan, is what is one
trial you've had in your life and how did you overcome it?
And it could be, you know, working as ADEA agent, it could
(20:44):
be nonprofit work, your personallife, whatever, just any
struggle. And sometimes, quite frankly,
people will get on the show and say, I've had this struggle for
years and I still can't figure it out.
And that's OK too. You know, recently it's been
taking on too much and that's something that I'm currently and
(21:05):
dealing with. You know, I don't micromanage
the. Process and I don't.
Try to own everything but I'm wearing a lot.
Of hats. And I had a discussion with a
colleague. Yesterday we were flying back
from from. Chicago and we.
Were talking about another. Project that.
We want to do to to expand only 2MG and the work we're doing
with. You know, with fentanyl.
(21:25):
Awareness and drug awareness and.
I think we're going to be able to, to, to.
Start the path down or work on that that particular idea but.
That it made me think of the. Of the greater swear.
I'm looking for with the greaterthings I'm working on right all
the. All the hats, if you will, that
I'm wearing. And I think that's a struggle
I've been dealing. With a lot right now.
(21:46):
Is is, am I? Am I too thin?
Right? If I am, I if I spread myself
out too. Thin where I can't.
Give the appropriate time and. Attention to the things.
That. That I need to get done, so I'd
say that's. That's a current.
One I I've. Have a lot.
In my life that. I, you know, I think we.
Learn from our mistakes. And if we and if we don't, then.
You know we're. Doing it wrong.
(22:08):
You know, it's funny you broughtthat up.
I have a little channel on Instagram, and that's something
I talked about this morning. I'm guilty of it, too.
And a lot of my friends who are in different leadership
positions, we're all kind of struggling with that.
There's so much in the world, I think that needs to be done.
And now with social media and it's so easy just to flip on the
(22:29):
TV and see all of the things going on in the world outside of
your home. It's like, where do you even
start? And I think some of us are also
at a age. I know for me, I'm, you know, my
50s and I want to leave a legacy.
And so it's like, I feel like I'm unlimited time.
You know, I'm half over with my life.
What do I do next? And I have to do all these
(22:51):
things. But we neglect ourselves, right?
Yeah, we do. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. And and we have to.
It's almost a. A A work life or a balance?
Whatever, whatever, the whatever.
The categories, whatever the buckets are, it's.
It's a balance, and you have to have that balance in life.
And you know, another thing I dois I do a lot of leadership.
(23:12):
Training. Something else I'm very
passionate about and. And we talk about that quite a
bit is having that balance, you know, finding, you know, finding
the time. The appropriate time.
To give to the. Things that are important.
To you and and making. Sure, that.
You know that that you show up and that you give 100.
Percent to whatever. That is, whatever those buckets
(23:33):
are. Good point.
You know, yeah, I'm just kind ofthinking here, when it comes to
these drugs, I'm just kind of mashing these two things
together, right? We get so busy and we're all
over the place and we're trying to do new things and trying to
even stay awake sometimes. I met somebody not that long ago
who decided to try cocaine because he thought that he would
(23:56):
have more energy. All his friends were talking
about it. And I'm like, dude, look at
those friends who are telling you that, like where they're at
right now. And this was a really successful
business owner. And people don't realize how
toxic these drugs can be. But what are some of the things
that you think are going throughsomebody's head when they do
(24:16):
decide to try drugs? For example, like me, the way I
was raised, literally my dad would always say like, you
wouldn't have to worry about thedrugs taking you out if you
tried drugs. And so I was like, scared to
death. Maybe that's not the exact right
approach, but it worked for me, you know?
It works for. A lot of a.
Lot of young people. Yeah, yeah, but what do you
(24:37):
think is causing our citizens towant to try drugs in the 1st
place? You know, to me that's a scary
thing to even want to try something like drugs, you know?
So there are a lot of reasons, especially our young people.
You know, sometimes. It's just quite simply, boredom.
Sometimes. It's just peer pressure.
You know, they they're in peer groups.
(24:58):
And they've. Succumbed to the.
Pressure of, of of. Trying new things but.
Often, and this is a discussion that we're.
Really not having? Much in this country.
Often it's because. Of some type of trauma or.
Some type of illness, You know that.
Whether it's sexual trauma, emotional trauma.
Physical trauma, you know, or abuse, they're just.
(25:22):
It's a coping mechanism. They're trying to deal with it
and when you look at the how do we help?
People that are struggling from addiction struggling.
From substance use disorder. Well the the the best way is is
a medicated assistant. Treatment.
Well, first. Of all you want to and that what
that means you want to wean themoff the actual.
Drug. You know, like.
People probably heard of like. Methadone.
You know the methadone? Clinics and what they're doing
(25:43):
is they're. They're trying to wean.
Them off the heroin. You know, we do the same thing
with fentanyl now with with those same types.
Of drugs Suboxone. Other things so, but that's
only. Half the.
Solution. So you obviously want to wean
them off the drug, but then you want to look at the cognitive.
Behavior. Why are they?
Using the drug, is there is there some type of abuse?
Is there some type of trauma? How do we?
(26:05):
How do we? How do we?
Prevent them from not picking upthe drug again and trying to.
Cope with those those things. That are in their.
Life and. And again, I think.
That that's the broader. Discussion.
That we're really not tackling in this country is.
Is is are those? Things and to me that's the
biggest answer that I can give you or the biggest chunk of the
(26:27):
answer I can give you is those people that are using.
Drugs for those reasons and thenthe the small pie.
The small pieces of that. Pie chart would be.
Like I said. Boredom.
Peer pressure. You know, the false sense that's
going to give them, like you said, more energy like your.
Friend said. You know all those things, but
but deep down, I think there's some things going on in their.
(26:49):
In their lives, in their brain, and that they're.
Struggling to deal with and theyfind that drugs and.
Alcohol are a way. Of coping with them.
So I'm in the DC area right now and down by the metro stations
you see people walking around and screaming and there's a lot
of mental illness down there. There's a lot of drugs too.
(27:12):
And recently we've seen more people who are definitely
addicted to drugs and they're just kind of walking around even
though it's freezing cold outside and they literally look
like they're zombies or something.
They're grabbing at stuff in theair.
And like I said, I realized there are some mental illnesses.
But I was talking to a friend ofmine who lives in Florida and he
(27:34):
said that they have a clinic that treats people who are on
drugs who are doing these things.
So I just realized not too long ago that, and I figured some of
it was drugs, but I realized that there's actually a bigger
amount of drugs causing that then sometimes like a
schizophrenia or something like that.
And that seems very dangerous tohave these people just down the
(27:55):
street. Is it because there's just so
much of the drugs or what is thedeal?
Why do we have so many people walking around acting like this
and taking these drugs? Is it like you said, I could
guess all day? Is it because there's just not
enough enforcement resources? Like what is it?
Yeah, for sure. And let me let me back up real
(28:17):
quick. We're also.
Adding a lot of. Other drugs and chemicals.
To to drugs like. Fentanyl, I mean fentanyl is cut
quite a bit with. A drug called xylazine and
xylazine's nickname is Trancor Zombie drug.
So we'll give the impression that someone.
Looks like a zombie other. Their.
Their. Legs might be a.
(28:38):
Little, wide and they're. Kind of bent.
Over at. The at the.
Waist and their heads down and they almost look like they're
sleeping, standing up with theirhands just.
Draped in front. Of them and.
But the the greater. Answer there is is we're not.
Committing the resources that. We should be committing to help.
(28:58):
People, thank you so much for being on the show.
Do you have social media at all or just go to your websites and
then we can find it later? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.
That's probably. Yeah, I don't.
Sorry. Mehta, but I'm not.
Huge on Facebook. I'm on Instagram.
But it's not really anything I need to update my business.
(29:18):
Stuff on there. But I really don't LinkedIn I'm.
Pretty much on. LinkedIn every day on my own
LinkedIn. Page, Brian Townsend.
So, Brian, thank you again for being such an amazing guest and
thank you for all you're doing to help our country.
It's so important your work is not going unnoticed, so thank
you. Thanks for tuning in to Wake Up
(29:40):
with Patty Catter. Patty Catter.
If you enjoyed these stories of resilience and leadership, visit
pattycatter.com to connect with Patty and learn more.
Until next time, stay inspired and keep pushing forward.
Welcome to Wake Up with Patty katter Patty Katter, a place
where light overcomes darkness. Here we share powerful stories
of people who embraced their strength and came out on top.
Get ready to wake up, discover your purpose and wise.
(00:22):
Hello everybody. Thank you for joining my show
again this week. And today I have Brian Townsend
on the show with me. We're going to tackle a tough
topic, a very important topic. But Brian, first, let's have you
tell my guests a little bit about yourself.
Yeah. Good morning.
Happy to be here. So my name is.
Brian Townsend. I grew up in Northern.
(00:45):
Virginia, right outside of Washington.
DC and after high. School I packed my bags and
drove to. Joplin, MO.
Where I went to college. So that was.
That was really my reinvention, as I call it.
I was kind of a shy. Kid not a standout not.
Academically, not athletically. Not a lot of friends, close
(01:09):
friends, loyal friends, but you know, not a popular kid or
anything. Like that and just wanted to to
do more and see more. And really get out of.
My shell and. And.
So I went to the middle of the. Country.
I knew one. Person.
It was another classmate of minewho.
Did the same thing and and it was a great.
Experience a. Couple degrees later, I decided
(01:32):
to go into. To law enforcement, I was a
police officer in Joplin, MO. In the 1990s.
For about 5 years. Great department, great
experience, but my dream. My goal was.
The Drug Enforcement Administration.
The DEA. So in 1999 I was able to.
Accomplish that dream. Went to DEA and then with my
(01:54):
DEA. Career I.
Spent the next 23 years of my law enforcement career.
I spent. The first ten years in Little
Rock, AR and then I went to Corpus Christi, TX and worked
along the southwest border and then I went to Quantico,
Virginia where I was in. Charge of most in.
Service training and got to start the leadership and
(02:14):
development. Training unit for DEA in the 10.
1000 people in our workforce andthen the last couple years I
returned to Missouri which I which I.
Call home. You know I like I.
Said I grew up in Virginia, but going to Missouri Was was, was.
A big, big. Moment in my.
In my life and I was able to come back.
(02:36):
And finish my career there with.DEA, my last couple.
Years I was the resident agent in charge.
Of the Springfield, MO. DEA office, which means.
I was in charge. Of the DEA.
Office and the Several 2526. Counties in southwest Missouri,
Missouri that that we cover. So I I had a great job, love
(02:56):
DEA, but I just. Felt like.
I needed to start the next chapter of my life.
And and had a. Passion for.
Training and teaching and. So I.
Opened up my. Own training business, Eagle.
Six training and training and consulting.
And speaking and that's been going really well.
And and then that led to a. Part time job.
With a an organization. Called mid States.
(03:17):
Organized Crime Information Center and it's.
That's part of a a greater system called the risk center or
system and. I won't bore you with the
details, but our job is to support.
Law enforcement. Across the United States.
You know we have a. Analytical equipment and other
services that a lot of law enforcement our.
(03:38):
Agencies just can't afford. So I went to work with them part
time as a law. Enforcement Training Coordinator
and. A lot of what they wanted me to
develop was drug training, whichis obviously my lane, right,
something I did. At DEA for for a long.
Time and. It's something I did in my my 30
year law. Enforcement career, right, so.
(03:59):
I started to develop. Drug Enforcement or drug?
Training and then that led to developing opioid training and.
That just took off. And then that's the.
Another hat I wear I. End up starting a nonprofit
organization called Only. 2MG only, 2MG signifying.
That only 2 milligrams of fentanyl is enough.
(04:21):
To kill you. I'm the executive.
Director and the Board of Directors is all retired.
DEA agents and our goal. Is to empower.
Communities to save lives. We want to.
Provide drug education and drug awareness specifically.
About fentanyl and help people. So that's a that's, that's my
life. Wow, you know, fentanyl is a
(04:43):
really big deal. A couple weeks ago, I met a
gentleman and his son died from fentanyl.
And you know, not a lot of people actually know how to even
recognize fentanyl, right? So I've heard about it.
I come from a law enforcement family.
I've been a police reservist andmarried to a law enforcement
(05:06):
officer and all of the things. But you know, I'm sitting here
thinking about it and I'm like, how do you recognize fentanyl?
Because it is such a small amount that could sneak into
probably almost anything. Is that right?
That's correct. And the problem with fentanyl is
it's odorless. It's tasteless.
So most people who, in fact, most people.
(05:27):
Who are are? Being poisoned by drugs and
dying. Have no idea that they're
getting fentanyl. You know they're ordering.
What they thought was heroin or.Cocaine or methamphetamine or
pills. You know Percocets.
And it. Doesn't have to be an opioid, by
the way. Valium.
You know oxycodone. Whatever the whatever.
(05:48):
The pill is. There's a good.
Chance there's a counterfeit. And then there's a counterfeit.
There's a good chance there's fentanyl or methamphetamine or
some other type of garbage, so. So how do you how do you
identify that? Yeah, it's, it's almost nearly
impossible. And like I said, if you look at
the overall numbers of people that we're.
Losing in this country. Every year, which is over 100.
1000 people. A year to drugs.
(06:09):
About 2/3 of those people are because of.
Fentanyl so. That means about 75,000.
People a year lose their lives to 1 drug and again this is a
drug that's. Sneaked its way into.
Our drug supply. DEA estimates.
That it's in about. 70% of our drug supply.
You know it's. It's in our methamphetamine.
It's in our. Cocaine.
(06:30):
It's certainly replaced heroin. And.
It's all over our. Pills.
Our counterfeit pills. And like I said, tasteless.
Odorless. No even distribution.
And it only takes. 2 milligrams,it's guiding.
Into your system. It's got to get into.
That into that bloodstream. To do its harm, but if you're
someone who consumes illegal substances then you're taking a
(06:51):
risk every time you do that. I even read something not that
long ago about an officer. I believe it was maybe in
Bradenton or Manatee County and I'm probably going to get the
story messed up a little bit because it was a while back, but
it seemed like the officer was exposed to it on a drug bust,
not even realizing it. Is that a thing or or maybe
(07:13):
media or what is that about? It's actually not a thing.
I mean, it's happened, but we now know.
Through a lot of research. That none of those.
Officers were actually. Exposed to fentanyl and and
early on that used to be very. Controversial to say.
But 99? .999.
Percent of the law enforcement officers I talked to.
(07:34):
They understand that. You know you've been in law.
Enforcement more than. Than two minutes if you've been
exposed to. Fentanyl and and you're.
OK, so being. Around fentanyl, touching
fentanyl. Which I do not recommend, but in
the event that it did. Touch your skin.
You're not going to. Die.
You're not going to overdose. I'm happy those.
(07:56):
Officers are are safe. I'm not trying to minimize what.
They believe they went through. But we know that none.
Of their toxicology reports havebeen positive.
For fentanyl, none. There have been no cases of.
First responder overdosing from fentanyl.
We hear about them especially. Certainly in the past we heard
about them. And we occasionally still hear
(08:17):
about them. Every so often.
But none of that's been. Confirmed and there's.
Like I said, there's a lot of this isn't this isn't.
Just my opinion. There's, there's a lot of
evidence that supports that and.You know I love DEA.
I had a great. DEA career and still.
Involved with with some things with my DEA family, but in 2016.
(08:37):
When we put that information out, we.
Were wrong. You know we were.
Airing a lot on the side of caution and.
We thought we were correct, You know we weren't.
Intentionally trying to. To to scare the public.
That. You know, fentanyl was dangerous
to be. Around but.
But we now know. Through, you know, almost 10
years of. Research that that it's
incorrect so. What about, you know, you
(09:00):
probably seen something on social media about a woman going
and looking in the parking lot and finding like a dollar bill
on the ground and picking it up and all of a sudden, you know,
they're passing out. Is that a thing?
No, it's not a thing. It absolutely has to get in, has
to go through a mucous membrane.You know, you know whether you
take it orally, sniff it or. Snort it.
(09:23):
I should say or or or. Inject it.
It's got to get. Into your blood supply.
I do. Some some work consulting.
Work and and I've I've been. An expert witness.
In different trials. And things like that.
And I had. One not too long ago and they
ended up not. Testifying or not?
Calling you the stand but but wehad a a child custody battle
(09:46):
where the. Child's mother was struggling
from from substance. Use.
And she was testing positive. For fentanyl.
And she claimed. That just being around.
Drugs made her test positive and.
It just. Just doesn't happen and.
And, you know, happily. Testify that that just doesn't
(10:07):
happen and. The defense attorney thank.
Or not the defense attorney. Her attorney.
Thankfully gave her some. Some good advice and said you
need you need to drop that that bogus claim.
I can think of a. Couple more.
Of. An.
Employee for a large. Organization who tested
positive. On a random drug.
Screen and. Said the same.
Thing that they were. Just around it.
(10:28):
And and no, absolutely not. Again, a very.
Dangerous substance. I don't want to.
Minimize that at all, you know. Wear proper PPEI.
Wear nitrile. Gloves.
Always I would never. Recommend.
Touching fentanyl or any? Illicit substance, for that
matter. I always.
Wore PPE and for me it was nitrile.
(10:49):
Gloves. But like I said, in the event
that. I don't know it.
Tears or you don't have it or somehow.
There's skin contact. You're going to be OK.
You know, when I was growing up,we had all these commercials say
no to drugs, you know, in the 80s.
And it was a terrifying thing toeven think about trying a drug.
(11:10):
So in my case, I was always too afraid to try anything,
thankfully. And I know that there are people
out there, they're just kind of looking for something to either
have fun or to kind of ease their mental or physical pains.
And it kind of escalates into a drug problem, but alive.
I just know that I, if, if I touch drugs, I wouldn't have had
(11:31):
to worry about the drugs killingme.
I think my parents would have. So I, I never got into that.
But when you're dealing with, you know, the drug busts and
things like that, Can you tell me one of the hardest stories
maybe that you witnessed yourself when it came to, you
(11:52):
know, having to, to deal with a drug bust?
Because for me, I'm like, happy if you find drugs, I'm happy
that you're getting them off thestreet.
But there must be some of the struggles too when you're seeing
people being destroyed by drugs.Yeah, We've seen a seen a lot of
families who've been impacted bythis, a lot of communities
impacted by this and it always breaks.
Your heart, especially when it's.
(12:13):
Especially when it's the kids. I think those.
Are the hardest. You know DEA our our task.
Is to work. The the biggest baddest.
In drug organizations. So we're not.
Always dealing with that end user if you will, you know but.
But I certainly. Have in my DEA.
Career and I certainly. Did in the. 5 short years I was
(12:35):
a police officer in Joplin. And I've.
Worked with a lot. Of.
Families over the last few yearsin my role.
With only two MG and and it. It always breaks.
Your heart when? We don't think about the impact
that the family has. Or that the family feels right
the. Profound impact.
Especially when they lose someone they love.
(12:55):
And that's the hardest, and that's one of the reasons.
That really motivates me to to do what I do.
I'm probably the only. Nonprofit drug awareness in the
drug awareness. Space that didn't lose.
A child. In this In this.
Crisis and I'm not. I'm happy that there.
(13:15):
Are a lot of nonprofits. In this same space.
That are doing what they. Do so.
I'm not trying to set you know, but.
But there it's. It's a reactive thing, you know
they've. Lost a child?
And and now they're they're giving back and.
Trying to prevent that. Pain.
And that's a. Wonderful thing.
Please, I'm not minimizing that at all, but I I want to do
(13:36):
something a little different. I want to say, hey, we need to
be. We need to.
Care about this? Regardless of our circumstances.
You know, we need to, we need togive a damn about.
Each other, you know we need to.Have some empathy and some
compassion. In this world and.
And I think a lot of that if youreally start peeling away that
those. Layers.
Comes from the fact that I just.Constantly saw and dealt with so
(13:57):
many people who. Who lost loved ones in their in
their life and. And I guess this is my way of
just kind of giving back and maybe helping them and helping.
Others to, to hopefully prevent that pain.
I, I do love that because it's not being a reactive, it's very
proactive. And the other thing that I like
(14:18):
is, you know, with me, I've donea lot of, I'll use this example
military advocacy right in the military.
I wasn't in the military so I could go all the way to the top
and get things done. Whereas you know, the military
members, they have to start withtheir chain of command.
And I'm like, Nope, I'm going uphere.
And, and you know, I, I have found personally that that's a
(14:40):
very good way to get things done.
And so for you addressing it from the very top so that the
after effects are easier to dealwith, I think that's good.
I am curious without getting too, too political, you know,
what's your stand on? We had these different laws and
(15:01):
we had these different problems at the border, and now all of a
sudden, our military's at the border to help seal up the
border. Do you think that that's going
to be beneficial? I mean, obviously, you're still
going to have a lot of work to do within our country and to
keep drugs off of the street. But I am kind of curious, since
all, you know, all the news headlines right now have to do
(15:24):
with border Closings, keep the, you know, illegals out.
What's your stance? I'm not political, but I'm going
to give you my, my, my opinion on this.
And first of all. I I can absolutely demonize
these cartels and China and all these.
Traffickers and all these. Evil people that.
(15:44):
Are that are wrecking havoc on our.
Societies. But at the end of the day, we we
have to control the, the demand,you know, until we eliminate the
demand. For.
Drugs. We'll always.
Have bad actors willing to exploit us.
You know, we, the United States makes up.
For a little over 4% of the world's.
Population, yet we have most drug consumption.
(16:06):
In this country, so. That that's ultimately that's
the solution we got to, we got to reduce the demand, but.
As far as the border. Goes I'm excited to see what's
going to happen. I am I The argument has been
that the people coming over. The border are bringing.
Fentanyl and and they're correct.
A lot of them. Aren't.
The problem though is when you dive into the numbers and you
(16:29):
dive into the. Work our.
Resources are so. Thin because of that, you know I
was down on the. Border from 2:00. 1009 to 2016
with Dai was. Down there a lot, you know, our
office was in Corpus, but most of our work was.
Along the border, so I'm very familiar with with how things
operate. There and how the cartels
(16:51):
operate there and. And you know, during my time
down there, 250. 300. 1000 people a year.
Were crossing the border. Illegally and.
Which is a lot right over the last 3-4 years, you know that's.
Number has that number has increased to one point. 5 to 2
million and I can tell you that the the the.
(17:13):
Customs and Border Patrol and all the.
And all the law. Enforcement agencies.
Down there haven't increased their their organizational size.
They're doing a lot. More with a lot less.
So yes, I, I, I, I can, I can appreciate the the the
discussion that or the the position that a.
Lot of these folks aren't bringing fentanyl or illicit
(17:34):
things with them over the border.
I get that but the problem is isif if I'm a boss and I have
limited resources and they are tied up with this nonsense.
Then it does. Prevent me from going.
After the fentanyl. Going after the guns, going
after the other. Criminal activity and that's.
(17:55):
The problem so so I'm I'm positive.
About this I hope. It's a good.
Thing And that's not a politicalstance, that's just I want, I
want. What's best for?
America, I want what's best for our.
Communities so if. Our.
Resources our law enforcement. Assets can.
Concentrate or have more? Time to devote resources.
To the criminal activity becausethere's.
(18:16):
Less of the other stuff. Well, that's a win.
Win for America. And we should all stand behind
that. And I'll say something else.
About the border. You know we've been.
Securing our border. Since 1920.
Four 100 years. This has been.
Supported by both. Parties.
It's been funded by both parties, you know, we made out
of. Call them walls before.
(18:36):
But we call them. Barriers.
We've grown sensors, cameras. I mean, we use a lot of
technology and we've been doing this since 1924.
So this. Isn't a new thing, but we want
we always confuse border security and immigration and I
know they that they they run. Parallel.
I get that. But you could actually.
(18:57):
Believe in an an open immigration, but you can.
Also believe in border. Security, that's.
Not a new thing, it's not a political thing, but sadly over
the last couple years we've madeit into a political thing.
So it's really difficult to havethe discussion without people
getting emotional, without people getting angry and, and I
think that's a disservice. To all of us.
Because. We can find common ground, and
(19:19):
we can. We can.
We can look for. Solutions and like I.
Said at the end of the day, secure America and make our
communities and safer again, andthat's ultimately what we
should. Be doing right?
Absolutely. And it is kind of funny because
I even hate using the word political, but it has done a lot
of controversy there, you know, with these terms being thrown
(19:40):
into the political arena, and they really shouldn't be.
We are going to take a quick commercial break and come back.
I have some more questions for you.
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theblackfeatherfoundation.org. All right, welcome back.
So one question I ask all of my guests, Ryan, is what is one
trial you've had in your life and how did you overcome it?
And it could be, you know, working as ADEA agent, it could
(20:44):
be nonprofit work, your personallife, whatever, just any
struggle. And sometimes, quite frankly,
people will get on the show and say, I've had this struggle for
years and I still can't figure it out.
And that's OK too. You know, recently it's been
taking on too much and that's something that I'm currently and
(21:05):
dealing with. You know, I don't micromanage
the. Process and I don't.
Try to own everything but I'm wearing a lot.
Of hats. And I had a discussion with a
colleague. Yesterday we were flying back
from from. Chicago and we.
Were talking about another. Project that.
We want to do to to expand only 2MG and the work we're doing
with. You know, with fentanyl.
(21:25):
Awareness and drug awareness and.
I think we're going to be able to, to, to.
Start the path down or work on that that particular idea but.
That it made me think of the. Of the greater swear.
I'm looking for with the greaterthings I'm working on right all
the. All the hats, if you will, that
I'm wearing. And I think that's a struggle
I've been dealing. With a lot right now.
(21:46):
Is is, am I? Am I too thin?
Right? If I am, I if I spread myself
out too. Thin where I can't.
Give the appropriate time and. Attention to the things.
That. That I need to get done, so I'd
say that's. That's a current.
One I I've. Have a lot.
In my life that. I, you know, I think we.
Learn from our mistakes. And if we and if we don't, then.
You know we're. Doing it wrong.
(22:08):
You know, it's funny you broughtthat up.
I have a little channel on Instagram, and that's something
I talked about this morning. I'm guilty of it, too.
And a lot of my friends who are in different leadership
positions, we're all kind of struggling with that.
There's so much in the world, I think that needs to be done.
And now with social media and it's so easy just to flip on the
(22:29):
TV and see all of the things going on in the world outside of
your home. It's like, where do you even
start? And I think some of us are also
at a age. I know for me, I'm, you know, my
50s and I want to leave a legacy.
And so it's like, I feel like I'm unlimited time.
You know, I'm half over with my life.
What do I do next? And I have to do all these
(22:51):
things. But we neglect ourselves, right?
Yeah, we do. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. And and we have to.
It's almost a. A A work life or a balance?
Whatever, whatever, the whatever.
The categories, whatever the buckets are, it's.
It's a balance, and you have to have that balance in life.
And you know, another thing I dois I do a lot of leadership.
(23:12):
Training. Something else I'm very
passionate about and. And we talk about that quite a
bit is having that balance, you know, finding, you know, finding
the time. The appropriate time.
To give to the. Things that are important.
To you and and making. Sure, that.
You know that that you show up and that you give 100.
Percent to whatever. That is, whatever those buckets
(23:33):
are. Good point.
You know, yeah, I'm just kind ofthinking here, when it comes to
these drugs, I'm just kind of mashing these two things
together, right? We get so busy and we're all
over the place and we're trying to do new things and trying to
even stay awake sometimes. I met somebody not that long ago
who decided to try cocaine because he thought that he would
(23:56):
have more energy. All his friends were talking
about it. And I'm like, dude, look at
those friends who are telling you that, like where they're at
right now. And this was a really successful
business owner. And people don't realize how
toxic these drugs can be. But what are some of the things
that you think are going throughsomebody's head when they do
(24:16):
decide to try drugs? For example, like me, the way I
was raised, literally my dad would always say like, you
wouldn't have to worry about thedrugs taking you out if you
tried drugs. And so I was like, scared to
death. Maybe that's not the exact right
approach, but it worked for me, you know?
It works for. A lot of a.
Lot of young people. Yeah, yeah, but what do you
(24:37):
think is causing our citizens towant to try drugs in the 1st
place? You know, to me that's a scary
thing to even want to try something like drugs, you know?
So there are a lot of reasons, especially our young people.
You know, sometimes. It's just quite simply, boredom.
Sometimes. It's just peer pressure.
You know, they they're in peer groups.
(24:58):
And they've. Succumbed to the.
Pressure of, of of. Trying new things but.
Often, and this is a discussion that we're.
Really not having? Much in this country.
Often it's because. Of some type of trauma or.
Some type of illness, You know that.
Whether it's sexual trauma, emotional trauma.
Physical trauma, you know, or abuse, they're just.
(25:22):
It's a coping mechanism. They're trying to deal with it
and when you look at the how do we help?
People that are struggling from addiction struggling.
From substance use disorder. Well the the the best way is is
a medicated assistant. Treatment.
Well, first. Of all you want to and that what
that means you want to wean themoff the actual.
Drug. You know, like.
People probably heard of like. Methadone.
You know the methadone? Clinics and what they're doing
(25:43):
is they're. They're trying to wean.
Them off the heroin. You know, we do the same thing
with fentanyl now with with those same types.
Of drugs Suboxone. Other things so, but that's
only. Half the.
Solution. So you obviously want to wean
them off the drug, but then you want to look at the cognitive.
Behavior. Why are they?
Using the drug, is there is there some type of abuse?
Is there some type of trauma? How do we?
(26:05):
How do we? How do we?
Prevent them from not picking upthe drug again and trying to.
Cope with those those things. That are in their.
Life and. And again, I think.
That that's the broader. Discussion.
That we're really not tackling in this country is.
Is is are those? Things and to me that's the
biggest answer that I can give you or the biggest chunk of the
(26:27):
answer I can give you is those people that are using.
Drugs for those reasons and thenthe the small pie.
The small pieces of that. Pie chart would be.
Like I said. Boredom.
Peer pressure. You know, the false sense that's
going to give them, like you said, more energy like your.
Friend said. You know all those things, but
but deep down, I think there's some things going on in their.
(26:49):
In their lives, in their brain, and that they're.
Struggling to deal with and theyfind that drugs and.
Alcohol are a way. Of coping with them.
So I'm in the DC area right now and down by the metro stations
you see people walking around and screaming and there's a lot
of mental illness down there. There's a lot of drugs too.
(27:12):
And recently we've seen more people who are definitely
addicted to drugs and they're just kind of walking around even
though it's freezing cold outside and they literally look
like they're zombies or something.
They're grabbing at stuff in theair.
And like I said, I realized there are some mental illnesses.
But I was talking to a friend ofmine who lives in Florida and he
(27:34):
said that they have a clinic that treats people who are on
drugs who are doing these things.
So I just realized not too long ago that, and I figured some of
it was drugs, but I realized that there's actually a bigger
amount of drugs causing that then sometimes like a
schizophrenia or something like that.
And that seems very dangerous tohave these people just down the
(27:55):
street. Is it because there's just so
much of the drugs or what is thedeal?
Why do we have so many people walking around acting like this
and taking these drugs? Is it like you said, I could
guess all day? Is it because there's just not
enough enforcement resources? Like what is it?
Yeah, for sure. And let me let me back up real
(28:17):
quick. We're also.
Adding a lot of. Other drugs and chemicals.
To to drugs like. Fentanyl, I mean fentanyl is cut
quite a bit with. A drug called xylazine and
xylazine's nickname is Trancor Zombie drug.
So we'll give the impression that someone.
Looks like a zombie other. Their.
Their. Legs might be a.
(28:38):
Little, wide and they're. Kind of bent.
Over at. The at the.
Waist and their heads down and they almost look like they're
sleeping, standing up with theirhands just.
Draped in front. Of them and.
But the the greater. Answer there is is we're not.
Committing the resources that. We should be committing to help.
(28:58):
People, thank you so much for being on the show.
Do you have social media at all or just go to your websites and
then we can find it later? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.
That's probably. Yeah, I don't.
Sorry. Mehta, but I'm not.
Huge on Facebook. I'm on Instagram.
But it's not really anything I need to update my business.
(29:18):
Stuff on there. But I really don't LinkedIn I'm.
Pretty much on. LinkedIn every day on my own
LinkedIn. Page, Brian Townsend.
So, Brian, thank you again for being such an amazing guest and
thank you for all you're doing to help our country.
It's so important your work is not going unnoticed, so thank
you. Thanks for tuning in to Wake Up
(29:40):
with Patty Catter. Patty Catter.
If you enjoyed these stories of resilience and leadership, visit
pattycatter.com to connect with Patty and learn more.
Until next time, stay inspired and keep pushing forward.
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