December 6, 2023 • 48 mins
As your host, I'm thrilled to welcome our guest, Matt, a beacon of hope and resilience who brings us an extraordinary tale of adoption, medical adversity, and the quest to find, define and anchor to his family roots. Born as a premature baby with an array of health complications, Matt's story begins with a life-threatening situation, taken under the wing of a compassionate doctor and his nurse practitioner wife, who later become his adoptive parents. This episode is a testimonial to the power of love and the importance of a supportive family, as Matt grows up surrounded by constant care.
Prepare yourself to listen with deep intent as Matt narrates the fascinating turns he encounters while searching for his biological family due to ongoing health concerns. Embarking on a journey which takes him down a path laden with emotion, Matt's DNA test results lead to a potential first cousin and an overwhelming number of matches to cipher through and ultimately leads to a very large family. His account of balancing commitments, as he sifts through newfound information, is as inspiring as it is stirring. Hold your breath as he shares the moment of his first interaction with his biological mother and siblings, shedding light on the emotional whirlwind that comes with discovering one's identity.
Lastly, our conversation with Matt unveils the ironic twists and turns of his life, as he talks about the tragic passing of his biological father and the subsequent ripple effects on his family. He reveals the surprising proximity of his biological siblings, emphasizing the need for emotional readiness when embarking on such a journey. This episode is not just about Matt's journey, but also about how the aftereffects of trauma than can ripple through both adoptees and their biological families. Ultimately, Matt's story is a true embodiment of resilience, leaving us with a profound sense of hope. There is no doubt you will be moved and inspired as you tune in.
When it comes to the amplification of male adoptee voices, it is crucial to recognize the unique experiences and perspectives they bring to the table. Each male adoptees has a valuable role to play in helping to shape the narrative around adoption by providing insights into their own personal journeys. This six-episode series is taking us on a spectacular journey of meaningful conversations, were male adoptees have been empowered to share their stories, break down stereotypes, and contribute to a greater understanding of the adoption experience as a whole.
Find your people, cherish your people and love your people.
#adoptee #adoptees #adopteevoices #adopteestories #adopteestrong #adoptionreality #adopteejourney #adoption #wanderingtreeadoptee
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, Lisa Ann.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Pardon me if I get emotional here, because this is
definitely the part that isalways the heart.
I think I'm going to getthrough it and it's just, it's
just, it's so surreal stuff.
But I got a message.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Welcome to today's episode.
It has been a pleasure to workwith the male adoptee voices and
, as we continue forward withthis series, I am encouraged by
one of our storytellers today.
His name is Matt.
He has one of those.
He has one of those journeyswhere, as you listen, your
(00:58):
heart's going to be pulled outof your chest, then it's going
to be put back in in such ajoyous way and you're going to
be shaking your head under thepremise of there are never two
adoptee journeys that areexactly the same.
And so, with that, I'd like towelcome you to today's show,
matt, and turn it over to you soyou can tell our listeners a
(01:20):
little bit about Matt and kickus off with your birth story.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, yeah, sure.
So thanks first and foremostfor having me.
It's an honor to share thestory.
But yeah, things got off to apretty rocky start, I guess you
could say, in my life.
I was born three months earlyand I was born on Florida's east
coast.
When I was born, there wereseveral complications, including
(01:46):
a brain bleed, collapsed lungsand some heart issues that are
common with preemies.
There was a doctor who wascalled in you know responding
pediatrician who was called infor his opinion and whether or
not my life was viable, becauseat that time the local hospitals
(02:07):
in the Cocoa Beach, capeCanaveral area didn't really
have any NICU facilities and hecame in and took a look.
I had had a.
The umbilical cord had beenwrapped around my head too, so
they had to deal with that.
My birth mother really didn'teven get it did not get any
chance to hold me.
They had to take me from herright away.
She was able to snap onepicture and I'll hit on that a
little bit later, but yeah, soit was a very dire situation and
(02:32):
the doctor they called in haddone his medical training at the
University of Florida up inGainesville, which is about
three hours from the hospitalwhere I was born and there was a
NICU there.
At the time Orlando was stillin the middle of developing kind
of a NICU facility there'swasn't complete.
It wouldn't be complete for afew more years.
(02:53):
So the only option was toairlift me via helicopter to
Gainesville.
I could get more work donethere and you know, the doctor
essentially came in and said helooks like he's a fighter.
I think I think he can make itif we got to get him up there
now.
So I was rushed up there and mybiological parents at that point
(03:14):
were told with everything we'reseeing, you know, we hope he
survives.
If he does, he's going to be inintensive care for a while.
With the type of stroke thathe's had.
It's going to probably impacthis motor skills.
He may have some partialparalysis and some mild cerebral
palsy.
(03:35):
It's going to take a miraclefrom the living.
If he does, there's going to belots of care needed for, if not
his whole life, certainly thefirst stretch throughout
childhood basically.
So I was indeed in intensivecare up in Gainesville for I
believe it was six weeks, maybea couple months, maybe three
(03:55):
months at most, but at thatpoint my biological parents knew
that they were already in aspot with their first son where
they were struggling to makeends meet and provide for him
and the thought of having tobasically tend to him and a
(04:17):
child who would need around theclock medical supervision.
The best way I think theyphrased it was that they had to
give me up to save me, to giveme a fighting chance, and you
know that that was apparent tobasically everybody.
That kind of parlays into theadoptive family experience, that
(04:37):
whole how that all transpired.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You know what a gut wrenching decision biological
parents have to make in the longin this long haul.
You're here today, so adecision that allows you to have
a life is is hard to counteragainst.
It's hard to say it was a baddecision or that you were torn
away from your family.
(05:01):
You know it's just really hardto put our mindsets around the
common narrative, aroundrelinquishment or needing to
make a life, a life savingdecision in your case.
This is a great place, then,for us to segue into the
conversation about who adoptedyou, because there is such great
(05:22):
joy around that piece of yourstory as well.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah.
So you know, fate would have it, the doctor who was called in
and responded and the spit onthis in the hospital the very
start was one of the parents whoadopted me my mom, my adoptive
mom, is a nurse practitioner andthey worked as pediatricians in
the central Florida area overthe past 40 years.
(05:48):
So I was adopted into a homewhere, right away, there were
two people who, when they werehome, could take care of me and
also would just know the beststeps and resources to use to
make sure that I made it and theswitch over to that.
I think I was in foster carefor a brief amount of time, but
(06:10):
you know there was all kinds ofthings that turned out really
positive with this and I knowthat, due to their positions,
you know, as pediatricians, thatcertainly expedited the
approval process.
It was done through, I know itwas done.
It was a private, closedadoption through Catholic
services, but you know, eventhen the state still has to
eventually at some point, youknow, make sure that all looks
(06:32):
good.
But had they not been in theposition, the career positions
that they were, I'm sure thatcould have taken longer and that
could be a whole another issue.
But yeah, so lots of positives,and I know that I'll be the
first to say I know that I'mextremely fortunate that that
was the case, because noteveryone who is put up for
adoption has an experience likethat.
(06:54):
But I also think it's important, like you mentioned earlier, to
make people aware that you knowthere are each case is
different and there are plentyof examples where the adoption
experience is a very positiveone.
You know, I tell people when Italk about I mean I call him my
dad because he is my dad, myadoptive dad being my hero.
You know there's almosteveryone says that their dad's
(07:17):
their hero, but I like to thinkthat it carries extra weight
when I say it, and I've I'veexpressed that to him through my
whole life and with my mom too,because you know she was the
one who was home more than him,even though they both worked at
the, at their own pediatricpractice.
She was home more than him andshe was the one who put in the
legwork, you know, doing mom'staxi and all that with me,
(07:40):
getting me to the right placesand therapies and working with
me on all those things.
At the same time they hadanother adoptive child, my
adoptive sister, who was alsoadopted by them from a different
family in central Florida.
Around her birth.
I actually don't know.
She never really looked toomuch into her birth story or
wanted to know.
You know her experience with myadoptive family has been
(08:02):
nothing but positive.
That's what actually why she'd,like I said, she didn't really
go looking.
They also had two biologicalsons who were 11 and nine years
older than me respectively.
So I came in as the youngestand really from day one those
two older brothers looked at meas if I was, you know, their
real biological blood brotherand stood up for me, looked out
(08:24):
for me, did everything you wouldwant a good older brother to do
, and I know it wasn't alwaysprobably a blast for my sister
and three brothers around, butat the same time, you know, it
also gave her kind of a specialplace in the family.
There's nothing like, you know,a father-daughter relationship
and I know that was alwayspositive with her and my mom
(08:44):
loved also having a girlfriend.
Obviously we're only two yearsapart.
She was in the house with methrough basically most of high
school.
My older brothers had moved outby the time I was just in
elementary school for college,but we still all keep in touch.
All but one of them live in thesame area.
One of them, my second oldestbrother, is actually a professor
(09:07):
of physics at Yale.
So talk about a lot to live upto Academic expectations.
But the cool thing is, you know, as gifted as he is and
everything, he's always been100% humble with me and been one
of my biggest encouragers, aswell as my oldest brother.
Sean Corey and Shannon are theirnames and very Irish.
(09:28):
All of our first and middlenames are Irish.
I won't say last name, but it'sobviously an Irish last name
and lots of Irish history.
But that'll become acoincidence later on and what we
can get to.
But it's really an interestingstory because just having that
kind of introduction to theworld, you know a lot of things
could have gone the wrong way.
That then you know.
(09:49):
I know the star is reallyaligned and I can tell you that.
I know not everyone hasreligion or faith, but for me
personally it's always been tome a reminder of and what my
opinion is.
You know God's hand and things.
I know some people mightdismiss that, but I think even
for someone who's not religious,you can take a look at this and
say wow, whatever you want tocall it.
(10:10):
It's neat to see that there arecases where positive things
happen, and it's not always anegative sequence of events.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I really like that about your story, matt, and I
want to take a couple of stepsback.
Your situation started out asmedical, clinical and, you know,
transitioned into a need andjust the stars aligning Again.
However, you want to put it,those things that you know
aligned for you and ittransitioned though from this
(10:39):
medical clinical need long-termcare into really a true family
unit.
We have talked now this is oursecond time together in
conversation and each time Ihave heard in your storyline
just the absolute love andrespect you have for your family
(11:00):
and the unit that you guys are,and I do agree it is important
to acknowledge not only the maleadoptee voices but also the
normalization of a narrativearound this where it is okay to
be comfortable as an adoptee andto have had a positive
perspective.
So thank you for sharing thatwith the listeners.
(11:22):
It just elevates us all toother ways of thinking about our
journeys, because they are notthe same.
As we are moving forward, kindof, with your story, I think
that we want to get into the, soyou did search.
How did that all come about?
How did that come to fruition?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, that's interesting too.
So again, I hate to belabormedical things, but I guess it's
been almost two years now.
About a year and a half ago Iwas really having some stomach
issues that were bothering meand as a quick side note I'll
say that that childhood growingup I was in I didn't have to go
to physical therapy.
(12:00):
Those first eight years I hadsome digestive issues.
I had to overcome partialparalysis in the left side of my
body, learned to swim with justmy right hand.
At first.
Things like that came a longway into fight expectations,
thanks to my parents and my owndetermination.
The stomach thing was somethingthat was persistent as far as
digestive issues and lots ofjust pain growing up.
(12:23):
It seemed to subside for a fewyears once I got into college,
up until about my late 30s,where a lot of people will tell
you that's when your body startsslowing down again or problems
start showing up.
And also there was asignificant event that
contributed to it and that I hadmy first child, or only child.
(12:45):
He was born a couple of yearsago and the combination of
seeing my first relative in asense for that for blood
relative for the first timealong with I was sick of going
to a medical professional andwhen they would say, well,
what's your family history?
Having to say, well, your guessis the good is mine, because in
(13:06):
this state of Florida those areall adoption records are
completely sealed and I hadnever really pressed my adoptive
parents too much because, one,I knew it was a closed adoption
and two, there was only so muchthey could even tell me if they
tried.
So submitted a 23 and me DNAtest and at that point it was
just something I kind of did.
To be honest, I don't evenremember at that point how much
(13:29):
of it was medical curiosityversus wanting to see if there
was any family connections onthere.
But it was funny I shouldn'tsay funny.
It was interesting listening tosome of your other podcasts
guests, because it's so crazyhow often it happens where
someone will submit the DNA to23 and me or ancestry, they get
it back and then it's like, ohgreat, a bunch of third or
second cousins.
(13:49):
Well, this taught me nothing.
Lots of frustration.
And then, sure enough, a coupleof years go by, I hadn't even
logged back in and that led upto, right before my stomach
issues started flaring up again.
There was a message I gotforwarded from 23 and me to my
email so that I logged back inand there was this.
It said possible first cousin.
(14:11):
And he said hey, I saw youradoption story.
I was adopted, too, down inFort Lauderdale in the late 70s
or mid 70s.
Do you happen to know anythingabout our family history?
And I said, unfortunately Idon't have anything right now,
but I'll certainly let you know.
And that was back in 2019, rightaround the same time this
stomach stuff started flashforward.
It was February this past year.
(14:32):
This year I had just made anappointment to go back to my
doctor to go over some resultsfor a test I had taken up for my
stomach and everything.
And again, crazy, weirdcoincidence I got a message from
someone in 23 and me and itsaid hi, I'm your second cousin
and I may have some familyinformation for you that might
(14:55):
be helpful.
I saw your adoption piece onyour bio on your profile on here
.
Your aunt was my grandmother.
Let me make sure I have thatright.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, this is the tricky thing about the
connections of DNA that we allgo through, and you are
absolutely right.
I have spoken of this inprevious episodes too.
While you're looking where Iwas inundated, I have now up to
15,000 matches.
That just boggles my brain, and, having tried to do the whole
(15:31):
detective work and effort thatwent into that, I am yeah.
I'm very attuned to what thatstruggle is.
Yeah and you know, because itjust overwhelms you, yours, you
have no idea what to do, youknow so yeah, I'm actually all
right, so yours is is what'syour connection to?
so I to the reach out.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I was able to pull up the message right here in my
archive and so the firstcorrespondence, one of the first
things he sent, was yourgrandmother was my aunt.
She passed away in in 2004 inMerritt Island, and Then she
said her name is listed.
And then she listed the name,and I believe your grandfather's
(16:11):
name was, and then she, youknow, said a name, and then she
said I have not seen any of herchildren since I was a little
girl you may be able to readsome of them by going through
her obituary and I still Ibelieve they still live in that
area, best of luck.
So I messaged her back, becausewhen you hear someone say your
grandmother was my aunt, there'sstill a good amount of digging
(16:32):
to do, and I liked to joke withmy friends and my close friends
and family that when she saidyour grandmother was my aunt.
I'm a big fan of Comedy moviesand the first thing I thought of
was there's a line in the 80scomedy, spaceballs.
It's a spoof on Star Wars, luke, you know I'm your father, but
instead he says the guy'sparroting them say he says I am
(16:57):
your father's Nephews, cousins,former roommate, something like
that.
That's what it felt like to me,like you hope, to get a closer
connection.
And even when someone says yourgrandmother was my aunt, you
know there's still a lot ofdigging to do.
So I I messaged with her a fewtimes and then found out that
the Grandmother she wasreferring to had 10 Children.
(17:21):
So I, at least at that point,knew okay, there's 10 of them,
but I didn't know if it wasmaternal or paternal.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So let's just take a pause there for a minute, matt.
I mean, 10 of something isoverwhelming.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, and I'm gonna be glad it.
Math is this.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And it is.
It is a lot, especially whenyou're not clear on what you're
looking at.
And to to correlate and berelational with you on this one
I have you know I said justmoments ago 15k connections.
I Should also restate mybiological mother was one of 13
(18:00):
in the second family.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, I remember.
You tell me how big it was.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, and so it is.
It's extremely overwhelming.
What I love about what you'veshared with the listener so far
is the fact that it isoverwhelming, and you know
you're acknowledging it, but youalso found some humor in it.
Yeah, I think that is right,really important as well.
Yeah continue with us on yourpath to some of your biological
(18:24):
discoveries.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, and so in my career, one of the things I do
on a regular basis involvesworking with what's called
search engine optimization,which is where you work with
Digital content online, do whatyou can to ensure that it has
the best chance to show up whenpeople are doing their own
research For certain things.
So I consult with businessesand organizations what not?
(18:47):
So that when they haveimportant information they want
to get out, but there's lots ofcompetition for it I give them
the right ingredients to makesure that their content shows up
for the right searches.
So with that background, itdefinitely helped me.
And I won't say the last name,but then the last name was, I'll
put it this way if there was aSmith Version, if there was an
(19:10):
Irish version of Smith this wasbasically that past name was and
, and, so that I knew as soon asI saw that that, well, great,
there's gonna be all kinds ofstuff I have to rule out.
And it almost became like Ialmost felt like a private
investigator or a detective.
You know you wait into that andyou have to say, okay, well,
this timeline rules this personout, and then you have to make
(19:32):
sure that you're not looking atit different family with the
same and a family that's got thesame last name but not
Biologically related to.
So that, I would say, took afew days and I was keeping in
touch with that second cousin.
And I guess I want to take thatquick chance to say if you are
on one of these DNA sites, don'tgive up hope because you only
(19:52):
see a second cousin, because, asthis proved, one of those
Second cousins which you've seenin several of your interviews
can be the key that ultimately,you know, unlocks the door and
then the rest eventually fallslike a house of cards.
So what was so crazy about itfor me was I eventually got to
the point where I knew I hadseven aunts and Three uncles at
(20:14):
least.
Well, seven aunts where one ofthem could be a mother and Three
uncles where one of them couldbe a father, because I didn't
know if it was maternal orpaternal.
So I said, okay, well, I'll golook for any photos I can find
Using those search engine skills, and at first couldn't find any
photos of the of the men.
(20:34):
But I found a couple of theaunts, or Potential moms, and I
was looking and I thought, okay,wow, this one, she looks like
she is a potential mom.
And I started, I started takingsome of the photo editing
software that I have to makethem, you know, side by side and
do those kind of comparisonsand everything.
(20:54):
And I was pretty well convincedthat was my mom because of this
, some of the similarities, andI looked at the age and I saw
the age was she would have beenin her I want to say 17 or 18,
upper teens but and I thought,well, maybe that maybe she's too
young.
But then I realized, well, itactually would make perfect
sense actually if it was someonewho had to, you know, deal with
adoption.
So I thought, well, I stillneed to look at the males just
(21:17):
to make sure, but I don't knowhow that'll happen.
And I reached back out to thatsecond cousin and she said, hey,
I was on my ancestry accountand I was able to find the names
of.
I mean, I was able to find alittle bit more information
about the men.
She sent me an archive of anewspaper clipping of at least
(21:39):
one of them where indicated thatthey had passed.
I took that name.
Yeah, I remember.
Now I took that name and went toa Facebook group that was
devoted to graduates of aparticular high school that had
passed away with some of them.
They had images and I know howto search around and sort that
by span of time.
One of the images that came upknocked my socks off because
(22:01):
when I saw it, I mean itbasically looked like me if I
had just grown out my hair alittle bit longer.
What's funny is I showed it tomy wife and I said don't you
think that uncle looks?
Looks like it, looks like itcould be my dad, and she's like
I don't know, I think it's, Istill think it's the aunt.
And I was like huh, and that'stotally me.
So I called over my little threeyear old son and I said, hey,
(22:22):
who's this in the picture?
And I showed him the picture onmy phone and he looked at it
and he just without hesitation,said data.
And I said, ok, I got to findout a little bit more.
So I went to another Facebookgroup where it was an ongoing
reunion group for people fromthat high school.
I said I'm doing some medicalresearch.
(22:44):
Does anyone know if Tim passedaway from like a car wreck or
does anyone know background?
I'm just trying to find outfrom my own medical history.
One random person replied andsaid oh yeah, he was in a car
wreck.
His wife is my sister-in-law.
(23:04):
And again, that's where yourbrain freezes, because you're
thinking OK, so how does thishelp?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, let's pause there for just a minute, right?
Because, wow, what you havealso shared in your story
affirms our skill sets.
You talked about becoming adetective.
We end up becoming detectivesin our own rights.
You talked about researchmethodologies which, as we're
(23:32):
all going through this journeyand trying to get into some type
of identification and reunion,we start looking at different
ways to find different thingsand circle in and hone in, and
you also spoke of analyticalskills.
So, we're hitting all of the keythings that when we are
venturing into this, I don'tknow.
(23:54):
If we think about it that way,we don't think.
I'm going to be, this superstardetective.
Oh, now I've got to heighten upmy research skills.
Now I need to analyze the data,oh, and I need to maybe think
about it in all different ways,and so I always find that
interesting in each of ourstories, as we're going through
this biological search and howit just plays into where we get
(24:18):
to.
You're now engaged in someconversation through a Facebook
group.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, and get back to one of the points you just made
too.
An interesting note to thatmeant to say, was for a lot of
us in this journey and I knowthis has probably been a common
experience for you and the otherguests that you've had on here
is it can be so life consumingand you have to.
As a professional adult, youhave to balance work demands,
(24:46):
home demands and all that andcompartmentalize really all the
emotion and everything else thatgoes into the family research
too, so that can be a balancingact in itself.
I guess you could say a slightstruggle for me because I wanted
to make sure I wasn'tneglecting my home Core family
here.
(25:07):
At that point I was astounded athow fast the cards were falling
with the information.
You go 42 years with, at thatpoint, no information really or
content, very limitedinformation.
I knew my parents, mybiological parents were young,
but there was never any photos,there was never any
communication, and a lot of thatwas because I was content and
(25:31):
happy with my adoptive family,which will always be what I
consider my real familyUltimately.
There were some phases ofcuriosity that every adoptive
goes through.
I don't want people to thinkthat I never sat there and
thought about it because I wouldsay a couple of times per month
for as long as I can remember Ithought about it.
I don't remember my adoptedparents sitting me down to tell
me about the adoption story at aparticular age.
(25:53):
I had known about it as long asI could think of, all of a
sudden, your midlife, thisinformation that is just dumping
on you that a non-adopty canjust not wrap their head around.
And another thing about thatwas it took my mother-in-law
pointing out like hey, keep inmind, this is overwhelming.
She said I think this isoverwhelming for your wife as
(26:13):
well.
Keep her in mind, because she'sgot to learn about all this too
.
This is new family for her,which I think is something that
a lot of adoptees in mysituation may not even think of
till it's there because you'reso hyper-focused on getting that
extra information.
I had to take this chance tosay that I couldn't have asked
for a better soulmate andsomeone who supported me, not
(26:34):
just in this but in everything Ido in life.
My wife's been incredible Forme.
It was amazing to see how muchshe was emotionally moved by
some of this discovery too.
She's been great, andthankfully, because I could see
why this potentially does causerifts with families.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
And I think that's important, matt, and thank you
for bringing that to thisconversation, because I don't
know if we talk about it enough.
That says our whole world ischurning.
I mean it is, and so manythings are going on and we're
human, our identities arechanging, we're learning things
about ourselves and, at the sametime, someone close to us is
(27:11):
watching it, participating.
It is impactful.
Sometimes we can't see it, so Ido like that you've brought
that to the conversation, sothank you All right, well, let's
get us going forward here onwhat was the big opening event
for you.
When did it all start to reallycome together?
When did the cards really fallall the way?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So really it all happened so fast, so that
sister-in-law made the commentshe made and I saw where she had
just went ahead and tagged aname and I thought to myself,
well, that'd be pretty crazy andto me it just seemed pretty
audacious for that person tojust bam, you know, attack
someone like that, consideringthe implications.
But people do what they do.
I'm not judging, it was justkind of surprising.
(27:55):
It wasn't more than an hour, itmay have even only been a few
minutes.
It's all kind of blurry rightnow, but I got a Facebook
message and pardon me if I getemotional here, because this is
definitely the part that isalways the hard I think I'm
going to get through it and itjust it was so surreal, it's
tough, but I got a message.
The person she had tagged saidhey, why are you doing medical
research?
(28:15):
And I started saying well, Ihad some health issues when I
was born and I have some healthissues now.
I was adopted, so I don't knowmuch.
And after I mentioned the partof adoption, she replied on July
14th at, and then she named thehospital.
We both kind of paused becauseI was like, okay, I'm pretty
sure this is my biologicalmother and she started typing
(28:37):
back oh my gosh, you're my son.
You're my son just totallyrocked my world as far as like I
never thought it would happenthat way.
Where do you even go from there?
And I could tell she was inshock and denial initially
because she was saying are yousome scammer?
Are you, is this some kind offraud?
And I don't blame her, becauseit does seem so random, as she
(29:02):
was saying that too, we talkabout information overload.
I got a message from that secondcousin saying I think this may
be one of your siblings and itwas a link to a Facebook page
and I looked at it and I saw thename and I messaged him and
said I don't know any other wayto say this and I have to say it
(29:22):
quickly, otherwise you willignore this message but I think
you may be my biological brother.
Did you have a brother that wasput up for adoption?
And he said, yeah, back in 1981, I said, well, I'm pretty sure
that's me.
I went back to the conversationwith my biological mother and
she started saying you have abrother named and his name, and
(29:43):
you have a sister named and saidher name, and I said, yeah, I
just reached out to him and I'llmessage her as well.
She went into explaining whathad happened prior to my
premature delivery and Iimmediately expressed to her
that she expressed some concern.
She was basically apologizingfor giving me up and I
(30:04):
immediately made sure that sherealized that I was not angry
with her, I was not disappointedand that I completely respected
the decision that she made andthat she gave me the best chance
to have a great life.
We have not met in person.
We do communicate throughMessenger, but I know she still
(30:24):
grapples with wrestles with thatdecision, despite the fact that
I have done everything to tryto reassure her.
But I could never understand.
I'll never be able to graspwhat it must be like for the
mother in that spot.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Well, matt, I just watched you relive that whole
thing again and it is hard.
It's hard when you tell ourstories, so, thank you.
I always think it's an honorwhen people sit with me and talk
about it, and so, as youcollect yourself a little bit
here, that's a lot in a verycondensed amount of time and
it's hard not to be emotionalabout it as you go through it
(30:56):
and then, as you tell it, stillcoming to terms with all of the
implications of what you'velearned.
So, in a short window, just torecap, you've connected with a
cousin who has been instrumentalin the discovery.
You've utilized Facebook groups.
You connected with yourbiological mother and, almost
simultaneously, your biologicalbrother I've now mentioned.
(31:17):
You haven't had a chance tomeet with your biological mother
, and that is by choice.
There are reasons for you tohave made that choice.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yes, and she understands so my adoptive
parents.
They have both been fine withme doing the search as far as
I've not tried to block it oranything like that.
However, at the same time Iknow from my adoptive mother,
with all the legwork she put inand just the sacrifice and
unconditional love she's givenme over the years, she's very
tender and sensitive about it,for very understandable reasons,
(31:49):
and she said I'm okay with yousearching and finding.
I just don't personally want tohear updates because I know for
me how much it meant to raiseyou as my son and you are my son
, and she's also about 16 or 17years older than my biological
mother.
She's in her upper 70s.
She'll be 80 next year, so thelast thing I want to do is add
(32:11):
any stress to her life oremotional distress at this point
, and thankfully my biologicalmother understands that and she
also understands.
Even if it weren't for thatscenario, there's still a lot to
process for anyone, and thatwas back in February, so it's
been almost eight months.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, several months yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
We communicate with occasionally sent her Mother's
Day card and plan on sending hera birthday gift.
She did send me a birthday giftgifts, I should say so it's
been civil, it's been positive.
My siblings have understoodthat approach as well,
thankfully.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
And for clarity, you mean your biological siblings.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Sorry, yes, and I should say I should also just
point out my adoptive siblingshave been unbelievably
supportive about all of this.
I'm sorry you get into theseweeds and it's just like.
Here I am and I've completely,like, omitted the fact that we
haven't talked about mybiological father and why he's
not in the picture.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that we're bringing itkind of all together,
transitioning a little bit herein this storyline with you where
you have findings, so we'veconnected with the birth mother.
It's been very digital.
You guys have some stuff goingon.
You have a layer of respect andlove for who has raised you.
They are your parents and I'mrespectful of that and again, I
(33:35):
want us to normalize that.
It's okay to be comfortablewith that type of a narrative
and the positivity of that.
But let's go ahead and talk alittle bit about your sibling
connections and your reunionsand what you've learned about
each other.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
The InstaNi messaged my biological brother.
You know, almost within thesame few minutes, like I said,
he messaged me back.
So the brother wanted to meetas soon as possible.
I told him okay, well, you know, let me think about things and
I have to process this.
And that night had gone by, Ihad messaged my biological
sister and said the same thing,I told biological brother and,
(34:12):
and then the next morning shehad messaged me back and said
holy cow, you know I'm in shock.
You know you survived.
We didn't know if you'd hadsurvived and you were a miracle
baby.
And I've only seen one pictureof you and it was mom's photo
with wires all over you, andI'll never forget.
You know, it's one thing tolook at photos, but I'll never
(34:32):
forget watching a video of mybiological sister joking around
with my biological brother usinga face swap app.
Then, you know, I watched a fewmore videos of them and it was
just.
I can't explain how surreal andlike sci fi movie it felt to
see people who looked so similarto me in video.
The reunion went well.
(34:53):
I'm so glad I had my wife withme throughout all of it, because
it was so intimidating.
I can't imagine going into thatalone, I think it was like.
I think it took a week or two.
I'll never forget.
I was just taking a shower andlike the weight of all of it hit
me and I started bawlingbecause I couldn't believe
everything that had happened.
And I told her when she gothome from work that night and we
(35:14):
processed it together.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I think that it's important in this conversation,
matt, that you have shared outsome of your emotions and how
you have to process through that, and, again, the fact that
you've done so openly.
We are both from a similargeneration where we know that is
not how the gender roles playout or have been played out.
(35:39):
So it's important to kind of hitthat pause there for a minute.
In all of this, what I thinkwe're starting to piece together
and I'd like you to kind ofclose the loop for us is your
paternal biology.
So where does your biologicalfather fit into this story?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, it's pretty incredible, and I'll actually
start with my grandfather.
He had been living up in NewYork and moved his family
southward because of the Apolloprogram.
He had a background as in Navyaviation from World War II and
was also an engineer, and thatcombination made him an ideal
(36:20):
candidate for NASA's new projectin the mid to late 60s the
Apollo program.
So he came down to what we callthe Space Coast, the Cocoa
Beach, cape Canaveral, meridIsland area.
My biological father was themiddle child of the sons and he
was a mechanic and he had justgone from being a car mechanic
(36:43):
to getting a job manufacturingboats at a company called Sea
Ray, which was one of theleading boat manufacturers.
That actually happened a yearafter I was born, so things were
looking up and they hadbiological sister.
Right around that same time,around 1985, I guess I would
(37:03):
have been four or five he wasdriving home and he had some car
issues, was pushing his carfrom the road to the side,
trying to get it off the road,when another car hit his car and
, by extension, his own car,ended up hitting him and
throwing him 100 feet.
Unfortunately he passed when hewas only 25.
(37:24):
And I know that had a majorimpact on the family.
Obviously it traumatized mybiological brother, where he
didn't speak for a couple yearswell, at least a year and he had
to be held back in school as aresult, and my biological sister
was very young but sheremembers how it took him a
while to start talking back toher.
But throughout this journey Iwas able to contact not only the
(37:48):
siblings but remember how Imentioned, there were those
seven aunts and all but two ofthem live in my home area and
I've been able to meet up with acouple of them and when they've
described my biologicalfather's personality how hard it
must have been for them to losea brother like that, and the
fact that they were still sowelcoming because you know a lot
(38:10):
of people when they go througha tragedy like that, when it
kind of just pushed awayanything that reminds them of it
, they were overwhelmed byphysical reminder because of our
resemblance of so strong andthey even said, like you're your
own person, but you're like aclone of Tim, you know, and yeah
, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Let's take a pause here for just a minute and let
you collect your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
One of the things, matt, that is coming out of this
conversation that you and I hadnot talked about prior, and
it's really starting to sit withme in this iteration of our
discussion.
That's a we meaning a verybroad brush.
We right Not everyone, but it'sa pretty broad brush have this
tendency to hold on to ourtrauma, and we call it our
(38:55):
adoption trauma orrelinquishment trauma, but as if
it's the only trauma in thestory right.
And I'm just now listening toyour biological family was put
through a ringer as well.
And to have you know this, thishuman and you've spoken to your
(39:16):
genetic mirroring and thethings that you look up and look
like and act like andpotentially sound like Wow, can
you just imagine I'm struggling,that my brain is on fire right
now what that is like on theother side of our conversation
right.
Because all of their trauma nowis coming, coming back to the
(39:36):
surface or any of their grief.
You are handling it very well,I must say.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thanks, and again, I know I mentioned it before, but
I know that God's hand has beenin a lot of this.
Other people can call itcoincidence, that's fine.
I can just tell you that mywife is in my life for a reason.
Our past cost for reason, and Iknow that if I hadn't covered
any of this before meeting herand marrying her, I never would
have been ready.
I think that's an importantthing to remember.
(40:03):
Whether it's a significantother that you're not married to
, or a best friend or yourspouse, don't be afraid to lean
on them, because you know that'sone of the reasons they're
there, and if you try toshoulder all this, it is.
It is information over anemotional overload.
Coincidences, you know, and Iguess I just want to use an
example here, because I thinkit's from a movie, but I think
(40:26):
it makes a great kind ofmetaphor.
There's a movie it's actuallyit's a scary movie, kind of.
It's called Signs.
It's a sci-fi movie aboutaliens, but there's a part that
has nothing to do with aliensreally, though, where the father
of the household, who's a widow, is sitting with his one of his
sons.
They have a philosophical backand forth.
(40:46):
The father was still grievingthe loss of the wife from a
fierce prior because it was anunexpected death.
They get into a discussion andhe says there's two types of
people.
There's those who believe incoincidences and those that
don't.
What if there are nocoincidences?
That means that you knowthere's fate, and I feel like
that scene has replayed in myhead a lot.
(41:06):
There's so many things you likeat look at and think wow, like
either thank God that person wasthere or thankfully there was a
time the timeline unfolded theway it did in this way because
ultimately it was for the bestfor most, for the most part for
the people involved.
I know that at this age now Iwas emotionally I'm emotionally
mature enough and stable enough,thanks to the help I've had
(41:28):
from my wife and my closefriends, to have gone through
all this, and I completelyunderstand why some people can't
even talk about any of this.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, I understand that too right.
I mean, we can't expecteverybody to want to tell their
story and we never know wherethey are in their journey or how
they're processing.
And what I also found reallyinteresting about your journey
was you talked about coincidence.
I think it's irony.
There's some irony in yourstory.
(41:59):
And I'd like us to.
Yeah, just touch on that alittle bit, because, as you went
through all of this and Istarted this conversation with
you know you have a story thatwe sometimes just can't imagine
and it rips your heart out andit puts it back in and but
what's really intriguing is theirony of proximity when you were
(42:20):
growing up to your biology,your circle was pretty
intersected.
We might be able to do a Venndiagram.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
When I started talking to my siblings about
what part of town they grew upin, we found out first off that
they grew up just a few milesdown the road.
In the 80s my hometown wasprobably about a tenth the
population that it is now andit's still not even really that
big.
You know, there's basically thespace industry families that
are there were service workersand legal medical professionals,
(42:50):
so it was a town that was justbig enough where there were some
people you didn't know.
Odds are, if you mentionedsomeone's name, there's probably
just one person removed whereyou know there's a tie in.
We discovered that there was atleast a four to six month
stretch where I was in the sameelementary school and possibly
(43:12):
even in the same classroombecause my biological brother
was held back a grade from thattraumatic experience.
He was actually.
He was on the same timeline asme academic wise, and so there's
a 50 50 chance that I was inthe same exact classroom because
there were only two classroomsper grade at this school and it
gets crazier from there.
So crazier because I said well,after that I went to the
(43:35):
Christian school.
My logical sister said.
She said, well, yeah, we livedright near the Christian school
and we loved basketball.
After school would get out.
We'd go and play basketballbehind your school.
I would be in class and with anear shot I would hear people
playing basketball Dang.
That time I wasn't any good,but I played basketball for the
(43:59):
Christian school from fifthgrade, all the way through high
school, and we had to go out andplay on the courts behind the
school.
And when we would go out thereand this is where it just gets
insane Basically every time ourcoach would have to go over to a
couple of kids and say hi,you're always welcome to play
here when our school's insession and no teams are using
(44:19):
the court.
But this is private propertyand we just have to have
basketball practice, so can youplease leave the court?
He didn't say verbatim likethat, but that was the message
and they would go their way andI'm there just waiting on them
to get off the court and playbasketball.
Having no idea.
Sorry, it's really hard to getthrough this now, getting
emotional, having no idea that Iwas waiting on my brother and
(44:40):
sister to get off the court.
And this is what's so crazy ismy sister said there was a time
where we were playing around andmessing with fireworks and
actually caught a bunch of thisbunch of stuff on fire right
behind your school and Iremember that clear as day we
were definitely crossing paths,yeah.
So there were talking about allthose different instances and I
(45:00):
mean I figured there is atleast.
You basically can't go to anyschool.
Back then you couldn't go tothe store without seeing someone
you knew and there was justoverlap right, because there's
only so many places you can getgroceries and everything.
So really realistically lookingat it, our pass must have
crossed with my siblings dozensof times.
You can't help but think, wow,I wish I had known.
I would have been neat to haveknown.
(45:22):
But you also know that it'sprobably for the best that you
didn't know.
I know that wasn't juststartling for me, but literally
everyone involved in my closecircle, friends and family just
kind of a neat thing to lookback and reflect on.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, definitely pinpoints the craziness of this
journey as we continue to findout things about ourselves.
Well, we're going to wrap upand what I want to check in with
you on what is it that youreally want the listeners to
leave with today, matt?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
The fear is going to be there no matter what.
Find someone who can help younavigate through it.
And also one thing I wish Ikind of mentioned before is part
of that fear may be fear oflearning that your biological
family may have included somesides of it that weren't perfect
, or society may frown uponright, but there's also going to
(46:12):
be things you find out that areamazing.
I found out that my grandfathernot only gave Neil Armstrong
his first plane ride but alsoultimately ended up working on
figuring out the trajectory forthe lunar capsule that Neil
Armstrong piloted down to themoon, and he was part of a team
that was recognized with apresidential medal of honor for
(46:33):
it.
I never would have known that ifI had let fear completely take
over and had I not pushedforward.
I want to say that with allrespect, like if someone's not
ready and makes this a not to,then I understand that it's
tough to navigate these waters.
If you have a good supportsystem with you and your heart
(46:53):
starts to feel right about it,let yourself know that there's
going to be some things youcan't control.
It felt great to know thatthere was this actually really
proud family history going backto that.
Just follow your heart, butalso know that you can overcome
the fear and make some amazingnew connections.
Possibly, if you don't makeamazing new connections, then I
(47:15):
think, no matter what, you willat least have some closure to
areas of your life that may notplague you like they would have
otherwise.
Because you know what I thinkI've found out in life and I'll
close with this is just that thefear of the unknown is the
worst.
I think my favorite movie isthe first Jaws, and it's because
(47:36):
they barely show the shark atall, but they do show.
It doesn't look that great, butwhat everyone thinks of when
they get in the water isn't therubber shark.
They're thinking of thatunknown like what's below the
surface and that's what scaresus the most and I think for a
lot of us, a lot of adoptees,when we get rid of that unknown,
there's a piece that's foundand I hope that everyone who has
(48:00):
the strength to go through thisfinds that peace.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Well, well said, matt , and thank you for leaning into
the conversation and beingwilling to share your journey
with the listeners.
We thank you.
You're welcome here anytime.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It's been an honor to speak with you.
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
Make sure to rate, review andshare.
Want to join the conversation?
Contact us atwanderingtreeadoptdcom.
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, Lisa Ann.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Pardon me if I get emotional here, because this is
definitely the part that isalways the heart.
I think I'm going to getthrough it and it's just, it's
just, it's so surreal stuff.
But I got a message.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Welcome to today's episode.
It has been a pleasure to workwith the male adoptee voices and
, as we continue forward withthis series, I am encouraged by
one of our storytellers today.
His name is Matt.
He has one of those.
He has one of those journeyswhere, as you listen, your
(00:58):
heart's going to be pulled outof your chest, then it's going
to be put back in in such ajoyous way and you're going to
be shaking your head under thepremise of there are never two
adoptee journeys that areexactly the same.
And so, with that, I'd like towelcome you to today's show,
matt, and turn it over to you soyou can tell our listeners a
(01:20):
little bit about Matt and kickus off with your birth story.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, yeah, sure.
So thanks first and foremostfor having me.
It's an honor to share thestory.
But yeah, things got off to apretty rocky start, I guess you
could say, in my life.
I was born three months earlyand I was born on Florida's east
coast.
When I was born, there wereseveral complications, including
(01:46):
a brain bleed, collapsed lungsand some heart issues that are
common with preemies.
There was a doctor who wascalled in you know responding
pediatrician who was called infor his opinion and whether or
not my life was viable, becauseat that time the local hospitals
(02:07):
in the Cocoa Beach, capeCanaveral area didn't really
have any NICU facilities and hecame in and took a look.
I had had a.
The umbilical cord had beenwrapped around my head too, so
they had to deal with that.
My birth mother really didn'teven get it did not get any
chance to hold me.
They had to take me from herright away.
She was able to snap onepicture and I'll hit on that a
little bit later, but yeah, soit was a very dire situation and
(02:32):
the doctor they called in haddone his medical training at the
University of Florida up inGainesville, which is about
three hours from the hospitalwhere I was born and there was a
NICU there.
At the time Orlando was stillin the middle of developing kind
of a NICU facility there'swasn't complete.
It wouldn't be complete for afew more years.
(02:53):
So the only option was toairlift me via helicopter to
Gainesville.
I could get more work donethere and you know, the doctor
essentially came in and said helooks like he's a fighter.
I think I think he can make itif we got to get him up there
now.
So I was rushed up there and mybiological parents at that point
(03:14):
were told with everything we'reseeing, you know, we hope he
survives.
If he does, he's going to be inintensive care for a while.
With the type of stroke thathe's had.
It's going to probably impacthis motor skills.
He may have some partialparalysis and some mild cerebral
palsy.
(03:35):
It's going to take a miraclefrom the living.
If he does, there's going to belots of care needed for, if not
his whole life, certainly thefirst stretch throughout
childhood basically.
So I was indeed in intensivecare up in Gainesville for I
believe it was six weeks, maybea couple months, maybe three
(03:55):
months at most, but at thatpoint my biological parents knew
that they were already in aspot with their first son where
they were struggling to makeends meet and provide for him
and the thought of having tobasically tend to him and a
(04:17):
child who would need around theclock medical supervision.
The best way I think theyphrased it was that they had to
give me up to save me, to giveme a fighting chance, and you
know that that was apparent tobasically everybody.
That kind of parlays into theadoptive family experience, that
(04:37):
whole how that all transpired.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You know what a gut wrenching decision biological
parents have to make in the longin this long haul.
You're here today, so adecision that allows you to have
a life is is hard to counteragainst.
It's hard to say it was a baddecision or that you were torn
away from your family.
(05:01):
You know it's just really hardto put our mindsets around the
common narrative, aroundrelinquishment or needing to
make a life, a life savingdecision in your case.
This is a great place, then,for us to segue into the
conversation about who adoptedyou, because there is such great
(05:22):
joy around that piece of yourstory as well.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah.
So you know, fate would have it, the doctor who was called in
and responded and the spit onthis in the hospital the very
start was one of the parents whoadopted me my mom, my adoptive
mom, is a nurse practitioner andthey worked as pediatricians in
the central Florida area overthe past 40 years.
(05:48):
So I was adopted into a homewhere, right away, there were
two people who, when they werehome, could take care of me and
also would just know the beststeps and resources to use to
make sure that I made it and theswitch over to that.
I think I was in foster carefor a brief amount of time, but
(06:10):
you know there was all kinds ofthings that turned out really
positive with this and I knowthat, due to their positions,
you know, as pediatricians, thatcertainly expedited the
approval process.
It was done through, I know itwas done.
It was a private, closedadoption through Catholic
services, but you know, eventhen the state still has to
eventually at some point, youknow, make sure that all looks
(06:32):
good.
But had they not been in theposition, the career positions
that they were, I'm sure thatcould have taken longer and that
could be a whole another issue.
But yeah, so lots of positives,and I know that I'll be the
first to say I know that I'mextremely fortunate that that
was the case, because noteveryone who is put up for
adoption has an experience likethat.
(06:54):
But I also think it's important, like you mentioned earlier, to
make people aware that you knowthere are each case is
different and there are plentyof examples where the adoption
experience is a very positiveone.
You know, I tell people when Italk about I mean I call him my
dad because he is my dad, myadoptive dad being my hero.
You know there's almosteveryone says that their dad's
(07:17):
their hero, but I like to thinkthat it carries extra weight
when I say it, and I've I'veexpressed that to him through my
whole life and with my mom too,because you know she was the
one who was home more than him,even though they both worked at
the, at their own pediatricpractice.
She was home more than him andshe was the one who put in the
legwork, you know, doing mom'staxi and all that with me,
(07:40):
getting me to the right placesand therapies and working with
me on all those things.
At the same time they hadanother adoptive child, my
adoptive sister, who was alsoadopted by them from a different
family in central Florida.
Around her birth.
I actually don't know.
She never really looked toomuch into her birth story or
wanted to know.
You know her experience with myadoptive family has been
(08:02):
nothing but positive.
That's what actually why she'd,like I said, she didn't really
go looking.
They also had two biologicalsons who were 11 and nine years
older than me respectively.
So I came in as the youngestand really from day one those
two older brothers looked at meas if I was, you know, their
real biological blood brotherand stood up for me, looked out
(08:24):
for me, did everything you wouldwant a good older brother to do
, and I know it wasn't alwaysprobably a blast for my sister
and three brothers around, butat the same time, you know, it
also gave her kind of a specialplace in the family.
There's nothing like, you know,a father-daughter relationship
and I know that was alwayspositive with her and my mom
(08:44):
loved also having a girlfriend.
Obviously we're only two yearsapart.
She was in the house with methrough basically most of high
school.
My older brothers had moved outby the time I was just in
elementary school for college,but we still all keep in touch.
All but one of them live in thesame area.
One of them, my second oldestbrother, is actually a professor
(09:07):
of physics at Yale.
So talk about a lot to live upto Academic expectations.
But the cool thing is, you know, as gifted as he is and
everything, he's always been100% humble with me and been one
of my biggest encouragers, aswell as my oldest brother.
Sean Corey and Shannon are theirnames and very Irish.
(09:28):
All of our first and middlenames are Irish.
I won't say last name, but it'sobviously an Irish last name
and lots of Irish history.
But that'll become acoincidence later on and what we
can get to.
But it's really an interestingstory because just having that
kind of introduction to theworld, you know a lot of things
could have gone the wrong way.
That then you know.
(09:49):
I know the star is reallyaligned and I can tell you that.
I know not everyone hasreligion or faith, but for me
personally it's always been tome a reminder of and what my
opinion is.
You know God's hand and things.
I know some people mightdismiss that, but I think even
for someone who's not religious,you can take a look at this and
say wow, whatever you want tocall it.
(10:10):
It's neat to see that there arecases where positive things
happen, and it's not always anegative sequence of events.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I really like that about your story, matt, and I
want to take a couple of stepsback.
Your situation started out asmedical, clinical and, you know,
transitioned into a need andjust the stars aligning Again.
However, you want to put it,those things that you know
aligned for you and ittransitioned though from this
(10:39):
medical clinical need long-termcare into really a true family
unit.
We have talked now this is oursecond time together in
conversation and each time Ihave heard in your storyline
just the absolute love andrespect you have for your family
(11:00):
and the unit that you guys are,and I do agree it is important
to acknowledge not only the maleadoptee voices but also the
normalization of a narrativearound this where it is okay to
be comfortable as an adoptee andto have had a positive
perspective.
So thank you for sharing thatwith the listeners.
(11:22):
It just elevates us all toother ways of thinking about our
journeys, because they are notthe same.
As we are moving forward, kindof, with your story, I think
that we want to get into the, soyou did search.
How did that all come about?
How did that come to fruition?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, that's interesting too.
So again, I hate to belabormedical things, but I guess it's
been almost two years now.
About a year and a half ago Iwas really having some stomach
issues that were bothering meand as a quick side note I'll
say that that childhood growingup I was in I didn't have to go
to physical therapy.
(12:00):
Those first eight years I hadsome digestive issues.
I had to overcome partialparalysis in the left side of my
body, learned to swim with justmy right hand.
At first.
Things like that came a longway into fight expectations,
thanks to my parents and my owndetermination.
The stomach thing was somethingthat was persistent as far as
digestive issues and lots ofjust pain growing up.
(12:23):
It seemed to subside for a fewyears once I got into college,
up until about my late 30s,where a lot of people will tell
you that's when your body startsslowing down again or problems
start showing up.
And also there was asignificant event that
contributed to it and that I hadmy first child, or only child.
(12:45):
He was born a couple of yearsago and the combination of
seeing my first relative in asense for that for blood
relative for the first timealong with I was sick of going
to a medical professional andwhen they would say, well,
what's your family history?
Having to say, well, your guessis the good is mine, because in
(13:06):
this state of Florida those areall adoption records are
completely sealed and I hadnever really pressed my adoptive
parents too much because, one,I knew it was a closed adoption
and two, there was only so muchthey could even tell me if they
tried.
So submitted a 23 and me DNAtest and at that point it was
just something I kind of did.
To be honest, I don't evenremember at that point how much
(13:29):
of it was medical curiosityversus wanting to see if there
was any family connections onthere.
But it was funny I shouldn'tsay funny.
It was interesting listening tosome of your other podcasts
guests, because it's so crazyhow often it happens where
someone will submit the DNA to23 and me or ancestry, they get
it back and then it's like, ohgreat, a bunch of third or
second cousins.
(13:49):
Well, this taught me nothing.
Lots of frustration.
And then, sure enough, a coupleof years go by, I hadn't even
logged back in and that led upto, right before my stomach
issues started flaring up again.
There was a message I gotforwarded from 23 and me to my
email so that I logged back inand there was this.
It said possible first cousin.
(14:11):
And he said hey, I saw youradoption story.
I was adopted, too, down inFort Lauderdale in the late 70s
or mid 70s.
Do you happen to know anythingabout our family history?
And I said, unfortunately Idon't have anything right now,
but I'll certainly let you know.
And that was back in 2019, rightaround the same time this
stomach stuff started flashforward.
It was February this past year.
(14:32):
This year I had just made anappointment to go back to my
doctor to go over some resultsfor a test I had taken up for my
stomach and everything.
And again, crazy, weirdcoincidence I got a message from
someone in 23 and me and itsaid hi, I'm your second cousin
and I may have some familyinformation for you that might
(14:55):
be helpful.
I saw your adoption piece onyour bio on your profile on here
.
Your aunt was my grandmother.
Let me make sure I have thatright.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, this is the tricky thing about the
connections of DNA that we allgo through, and you are
absolutely right.
I have spoken of this inprevious episodes too.
While you're looking where Iwas inundated, I have now up to
15,000 matches.
That just boggles my brain, and, having tried to do the whole
(15:31):
detective work and effort thatwent into that, I am yeah.
I'm very attuned to what thatstruggle is.
Yeah and you know, because itjust overwhelms you, yours, you
have no idea what to do, youknow so yeah, I'm actually all
right, so yours is is what'syour connection to?
so I to the reach out.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I was able to pull up the message right here in my
archive and so the firstcorrespondence, one of the first
things he sent, was yourgrandmother was my aunt.
She passed away in in 2004 inMerritt Island, and Then she
said her name is listed.
And then she listed the name,and I believe your grandfather's
(16:11):
name was, and then she, youknow, said a name, and then she
said I have not seen any of herchildren since I was a little
girl you may be able to readsome of them by going through
her obituary and I still Ibelieve they still live in that
area, best of luck.
So I messaged her back, becausewhen you hear someone say your
grandmother was my aunt, there'sstill a good amount of digging
(16:32):
to do, and I liked to joke withmy friends and my close friends
and family that when she saidyour grandmother was my aunt.
I'm a big fan of Comedy moviesand the first thing I thought of
was there's a line in the 80scomedy, spaceballs.
It's a spoof on Star Wars, luke, you know I'm your father, but
instead he says the guy'sparroting them say he says I am
(16:57):
your father's Nephews, cousins,former roommate, something like
that.
That's what it felt like to me,like you hope, to get a closer
connection.
And even when someone says yourgrandmother was my aunt, you
know there's still a lot ofdigging to do.
So I I messaged with her a fewtimes and then found out that
the Grandmother she wasreferring to had 10 Children.
(17:21):
So I, at least at that point,knew okay, there's 10 of them,
but I didn't know if it wasmaternal or paternal.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So let's just take a pause there for a minute, matt.
I mean, 10 of something isoverwhelming.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, and I'm gonna be glad it.
Math is this.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And it is.
It is a lot, especially whenyou're not clear on what you're
looking at.
And to to correlate and berelational with you on this one
I have you know I said justmoments ago 15k connections.
I Should also restate mybiological mother was one of 13
(18:00):
in the second family.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, I remember.
You tell me how big it was.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, and so it is.
It's extremely overwhelming.
What I love about what you'veshared with the listener so far
is the fact that it isoverwhelming, and you know
you're acknowledging it, but youalso found some humor in it.
Yeah, I think that is right,really important as well.
Yeah continue with us on yourpath to some of your biological
(18:24):
discoveries.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, and so in my career, one of the things I do
on a regular basis involvesworking with what's called
search engine optimization,which is where you work with
Digital content online, do whatyou can to ensure that it has
the best chance to show up whenpeople are doing their own
research For certain things.
So I consult with businessesand organizations what not?
(18:47):
So that when they haveimportant information they want
to get out, but there's lots ofcompetition for it I give them
the right ingredients to makesure that their content shows up
for the right searches.
So with that background, itdefinitely helped me.
And I won't say the last name,but then the last name was, I'll
put it this way if there was aSmith Version, if there was an
(19:10):
Irish version of Smith this wasbasically that past name was and
, and, so that I knew as soon asI saw that that, well, great,
there's gonna be all kinds ofstuff I have to rule out.
And it almost became like Ialmost felt like a private
investigator or a detective.
You know you wait into that andyou have to say, okay, well,
this timeline rules this personout, and then you have to make
(19:32):
sure that you're not looking atit different family with the
same and a family that's got thesame last name but not
Biologically related to.
So that, I would say, took afew days and I was keeping in
touch with that second cousin.
And I guess I want to take thatquick chance to say if you are
on one of these DNA sites, don'tgive up hope because you only
(19:52):
see a second cousin, because, asthis proved, one of those
Second cousins which you've seenin several of your interviews
can be the key that ultimately,you know, unlocks the door and
then the rest eventually fallslike a house of cards.
So what was so crazy about itfor me was I eventually got to
the point where I knew I hadseven aunts and Three uncles at
(20:14):
least.
Well, seven aunts where one ofthem could be a mother and Three
uncles where one of them couldbe a father, because I didn't
know if it was maternal orpaternal.
So I said, okay, well, I'll golook for any photos I can find
Using those search engine skills, and at first couldn't find any
photos of the of the men.
(20:34):
But I found a couple of theaunts, or Potential moms, and I
was looking and I thought, okay,wow, this one, she looks like
she is a potential mom.
And I started, I started takingsome of the photo editing
software that I have to makethem, you know, side by side and
do those kind of comparisonsand everything.
(20:54):
And I was pretty well convincedthat was my mom because of this
, some of the similarities, andI looked at the age and I saw
the age was she would have beenin her I want to say 17 or 18,
upper teens but and I thought,well, maybe that maybe she's too
young.
But then I realized, well, itactually would make perfect
sense actually if it was someonewho had to, you know, deal with
adoption.
So I thought, well, I stillneed to look at the males just
(21:17):
to make sure, but I don't knowhow that'll happen.
And I reached back out to thatsecond cousin and she said, hey,
I was on my ancestry accountand I was able to find the names
of.
I mean, I was able to find alittle bit more information
about the men.
She sent me an archive of anewspaper clipping of at least
(21:39):
one of them where indicated thatthey had passed.
I took that name.
Yeah, I remember.
Now I took that name and went toa Facebook group that was
devoted to graduates of aparticular high school that had
passed away with some of them.
They had images and I know howto search around and sort that
by span of time.
One of the images that came upknocked my socks off because
(22:01):
when I saw it, I mean itbasically looked like me if I
had just grown out my hair alittle bit longer.
What's funny is I showed it tomy wife and I said don't you
think that uncle looks?
Looks like it, looks like itcould be my dad, and she's like
I don't know, I think it's, Istill think it's the aunt.
And I was like huh, and that'stotally me.
So I called over my little threeyear old son and I said, hey,
(22:22):
who's this in the picture?
And I showed him the picture onmy phone and he looked at it
and he just without hesitation,said data.
And I said, ok, I got to findout a little bit more.
So I went to another Facebookgroup where it was an ongoing
reunion group for people fromthat high school.
I said I'm doing some medicalresearch.
(22:44):
Does anyone know if Tim passedaway from like a car wreck or
does anyone know background?
I'm just trying to find outfrom my own medical history.
One random person replied andsaid oh yeah, he was in a car
wreck.
His wife is my sister-in-law.
(23:04):
And again, that's where yourbrain freezes, because you're
thinking OK, so how does thishelp?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, let's pause there for just a minute, right?
Because, wow, what you havealso shared in your story
affirms our skill sets.
You talked about becoming adetective.
We end up becoming detectivesin our own rights.
You talked about researchmethodologies which, as we're
(23:32):
all going through this journeyand trying to get into some type
of identification and reunion,we start looking at different
ways to find different thingsand circle in and hone in, and
you also spoke of analyticalskills.
So, we're hitting all of the keythings that when we are
venturing into this, I don'tknow.
(23:54):
If we think about it that way,we don't think.
I'm going to be, this superstardetective.
Oh, now I've got to heighten upmy research skills.
Now I need to analyze the data,oh, and I need to maybe think
about it in all different ways,and so I always find that
interesting in each of ourstories, as we're going through
this biological search and howit just plays into where we get
(24:18):
to.
You're now engaged in someconversation through a Facebook
group.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, and get back to one of the points you just made
too.
An interesting note to thatmeant to say, was for a lot of
us in this journey and I knowthis has probably been a common
experience for you and the otherguests that you've had on here
is it can be so life consumingand you have to.
As a professional adult, youhave to balance work demands,
(24:46):
home demands and all that andcompartmentalize really all the
emotion and everything else thatgoes into the family research
too, so that can be a balancingact in itself.
I guess you could say a slightstruggle for me because I wanted
to make sure I wasn'tneglecting my home Core family
here.
(25:07):
At that point I was astounded athow fast the cards were falling
with the information.
You go 42 years with, at thatpoint, no information really or
content, very limitedinformation.
I knew my parents, mybiological parents were young,
but there was never any photos,there was never any
communication, and a lot of thatwas because I was content and
(25:31):
happy with my adoptive family,which will always be what I
consider my real familyUltimately.
There were some phases ofcuriosity that every adoptive
goes through.
I don't want people to thinkthat I never sat there and
thought about it because I wouldsay a couple of times per month
for as long as I can remember Ithought about it.
I don't remember my adoptedparents sitting me down to tell
me about the adoption story at aparticular age.
(25:53):
I had known about it as long asI could think of, all of a
sudden, your midlife, thisinformation that is just dumping
on you that a non-adopty canjust not wrap their head around.
And another thing about thatwas it took my mother-in-law
pointing out like hey, keep inmind, this is overwhelming.
She said I think this isoverwhelming for your wife as
(26:13):
well.
Keep her in mind, because she'sgot to learn about all this too
.
This is new family for her,which I think is something that
a lot of adoptees in mysituation may not even think of
till it's there because you'reso hyper-focused on getting that
extra information.
I had to take this chance tosay that I couldn't have asked
for a better soulmate andsomeone who supported me, not
(26:34):
just in this but in everything Ido in life.
My wife's been incredible Forme.
It was amazing to see how muchshe was emotionally moved by
some of this discovery too.
She's been great, andthankfully, because I could see
why this potentially does causerifts with families.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
And I think that's important, matt, and thank you
for bringing that to thisconversation, because I don't
know if we talk about it enough.
That says our whole world ischurning.
I mean it is, and so manythings are going on and we're
human, our identities arechanging, we're learning things
about ourselves and, at the sametime, someone close to us is
(27:11):
watching it, participating.
It is impactful.
Sometimes we can't see it, so Ido like that you've brought
that to the conversation, sothank you All right, well, let's
get us going forward here onwhat was the big opening event
for you.
When did it all start to reallycome together?
When did the cards really fallall the way?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So really it all happened so fast, so that
sister-in-law made the commentshe made and I saw where she had
just went ahead and tagged aname and I thought to myself,
well, that'd be pretty crazy andto me it just seemed pretty
audacious for that person tojust bam, you know, attack
someone like that, consideringthe implications.
But people do what they do.
I'm not judging, it was justkind of surprising.
(27:55):
It wasn't more than an hour, itmay have even only been a few
minutes.
It's all kind of blurry rightnow, but I got a Facebook
message and pardon me if I getemotional here, because this is
definitely the part that isalways the hard I think I'm
going to get through it and itjust it was so surreal, it's
tough, but I got a message.
The person she had tagged saidhey, why are you doing medical
research?
(28:15):
And I started saying well, Ihad some health issues when I
was born and I have some healthissues now.
I was adopted, so I don't knowmuch.
And after I mentioned the partof adoption, she replied on July
14th at, and then she named thehospital.
We both kind of paused becauseI was like, okay, I'm pretty
sure this is my biologicalmother and she started typing
(28:37):
back oh my gosh, you're my son.
You're my son just totallyrocked my world as far as like I
never thought it would happenthat way.
Where do you even go from there?
And I could tell she was inshock and denial initially
because she was saying are yousome scammer?
Are you, is this some kind offraud?
And I don't blame her, becauseit does seem so random, as she
(29:02):
was saying that too, we talkabout information overload.
I got a message from that secondcousin saying I think this may
be one of your siblings and itwas a link to a Facebook page
and I looked at it and I saw thename and I messaged him and
said I don't know any other wayto say this and I have to say it
(29:22):
quickly, otherwise you willignore this message but I think
you may be my biological brother.
Did you have a brother that wasput up for adoption?
And he said, yeah, back in 1981, I said, well, I'm pretty sure
that's me.
I went back to the conversationwith my biological mother and
she started saying you have abrother named and his name, and
(29:43):
you have a sister named and saidher name, and I said, yeah, I
just reached out to him and I'llmessage her as well.
She went into explaining whathad happened prior to my
premature delivery and Iimmediately expressed to her
that she expressed some concern.
She was basically apologizingfor giving me up and I
(30:04):
immediately made sure that sherealized that I was not angry
with her, I was not disappointedand that I completely respected
the decision that she made andthat she gave me the best chance
to have a great life.
We have not met in person.
We do communicate throughMessenger, but I know she still
(30:24):
grapples with wrestles with thatdecision, despite the fact that
I have done everything to tryto reassure her.
But I could never understand.
I'll never be able to graspwhat it must be like for the
mother in that spot.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Well, matt, I just watched you relive that whole
thing again and it is hard.
It's hard when you tell ourstories, so, thank you.
I always think it's an honorwhen people sit with me and talk
about it, and so, as youcollect yourself a little bit
here, that's a lot in a verycondensed amount of time and
it's hard not to be emotionalabout it as you go through it
(30:56):
and then, as you tell it, stillcoming to terms with all of the
implications of what you'velearned.
So, in a short window, just torecap, you've connected with a
cousin who has been instrumentalin the discovery.
You've utilized Facebook groups.
You connected with yourbiological mother and, almost
simultaneously, your biologicalbrother I've now mentioned.
(31:17):
You haven't had a chance tomeet with your biological mother
, and that is by choice.
There are reasons for you tohave made that choice.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yes, and she understands so my adoptive
parents.
They have both been fine withme doing the search as far as
I've not tried to block it oranything like that.
However, at the same time Iknow from my adoptive mother,
with all the legwork she put inand just the sacrifice and
unconditional love she's givenme over the years, she's very
tender and sensitive about it,for very understandable reasons,
(31:49):
and she said I'm okay with yousearching and finding.
I just don't personally want tohear updates because I know for
me how much it meant to raiseyou as my son and you are my son
, and she's also about 16 or 17years older than my biological
mother.
She's in her upper 70s.
She'll be 80 next year, so thelast thing I want to do is add
(32:11):
any stress to her life oremotional distress at this point
, and thankfully my biologicalmother understands that and she
also understands.
Even if it weren't for thatscenario, there's still a lot to
process for anyone, and thatwas back in February, so it's
been almost eight months.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, several months yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
We communicate with occasionally sent her Mother's
Day card and plan on sending hera birthday gift.
She did send me a birthday giftgifts, I should say so it's
been civil, it's been positive.
My siblings have understoodthat approach as well,
thankfully.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
And for clarity, you mean your biological siblings.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Sorry, yes, and I should say I should also just
point out my adoptive siblingshave been unbelievably
supportive about all of this.
I'm sorry you get into theseweeds and it's just like.
Here I am and I've completely,like, omitted the fact that we
haven't talked about mybiological father and why he's
not in the picture.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that we're bringing itkind of all together,
transitioning a little bit herein this storyline with you where
you have findings, so we'veconnected with the birth mother.
It's been very digital.
You guys have some stuff goingon.
You have a layer of respect andlove for who has raised you.
They are your parents and I'mrespectful of that and again, I
(33:35):
want us to normalize that.
It's okay to be comfortablewith that type of a narrative
and the positivity of that.
But let's go ahead and talk alittle bit about your sibling
connections and your reunionsand what you've learned about
each other.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
The InstaNi messaged my biological brother.
You know, almost within thesame few minutes, like I said,
he messaged me back.
So the brother wanted to meetas soon as possible.
I told him okay, well, you know, let me think about things and
I have to process this.
And that night had gone by, Ihad messaged my biological
sister and said the same thing,I told biological brother and,
(34:12):
and then the next morning shehad messaged me back and said
holy cow, you know I'm in shock.
You know you survived.
We didn't know if you'd hadsurvived and you were a miracle
baby.
And I've only seen one pictureof you and it was mom's photo
with wires all over you, andI'll never forget.
You know, it's one thing tolook at photos, but I'll never
(34:32):
forget watching a video of mybiological sister joking around
with my biological brother usinga face swap app.
Then, you know, I watched a fewmore videos of them and it was
just.
I can't explain how surreal andlike sci fi movie it felt to
see people who looked so similarto me in video.
The reunion went well.
(34:53):
I'm so glad I had my wife withme throughout all of it, because
it was so intimidating.
I can't imagine going into thatalone, I think it was like.
I think it took a week or two.
I'll never forget.
I was just taking a shower andlike the weight of all of it hit
me and I started bawlingbecause I couldn't believe
everything that had happened.
And I told her when she gothome from work that night and we
(35:14):
processed it together.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I think that it's important in this conversation,
matt, that you have shared outsome of your emotions and how
you have to process through that, and, again, the fact that
you've done so openly.
We are both from a similargeneration where we know that is
not how the gender roles playout or have been played out.
(35:39):
So it's important to kind of hitthat pause there for a minute.
In all of this, what I thinkwe're starting to piece together
and I'd like you to kind ofclose the loop for us is your
paternal biology.
So where does your biologicalfather fit into this story?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, it's pretty incredible, and I'll actually
start with my grandfather.
He had been living up in NewYork and moved his family
southward because of the Apolloprogram.
He had a background as in Navyaviation from World War II and
was also an engineer, and thatcombination made him an ideal
(36:20):
candidate for NASA's new projectin the mid to late 60s the
Apollo program.
So he came down to what we callthe Space Coast, the Cocoa
Beach, cape Canaveral, meridIsland area.
My biological father was themiddle child of the sons and he
was a mechanic and he had justgone from being a car mechanic
(36:43):
to getting a job manufacturingboats at a company called Sea
Ray, which was one of theleading boat manufacturers.
That actually happened a yearafter I was born, so things were
looking up and they hadbiological sister.
Right around that same time,around 1985, I guess I would
(37:03):
have been four or five he wasdriving home and he had some car
issues, was pushing his carfrom the road to the side,
trying to get it off the road,when another car hit his car and
, by extension, his own car,ended up hitting him and
throwing him 100 feet.
Unfortunately he passed when hewas only 25.
(37:24):
And I know that had a majorimpact on the family.
Obviously it traumatized mybiological brother, where he
didn't speak for a couple yearswell, at least a year and he had
to be held back in school as aresult, and my biological sister
was very young but sheremembers how it took him a
while to start talking back toher.
But throughout this journey Iwas able to contact not only the
(37:48):
siblings but remember how Imentioned, there were those
seven aunts and all but two ofthem live in my home area and
I've been able to meet up with acouple of them and when they've
described my biologicalfather's personality how hard it
must have been for them to losea brother like that, and the
fact that they were still sowelcoming because you know a lot
(38:10):
of people when they go througha tragedy like that, when it
kind of just pushed awayanything that reminds them of it
, they were overwhelmed byphysical reminder because of our
resemblance of so strong andthey even said, like you're your
own person, but you're like aclone of Tim, you know, and yeah
, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Let's take a pause here for just a minute and let
you collect your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
One of the things, matt, that is coming out of this
conversation that you and I hadnot talked about prior, and
it's really starting to sit withme in this iteration of our
discussion.
That's a we meaning a verybroad brush.
We right Not everyone, but it'sa pretty broad brush have this
tendency to hold on to ourtrauma, and we call it our
(38:55):
adoption trauma orrelinquishment trauma, but as if
it's the only trauma in thestory right.
And I'm just now listening toyour biological family was put
through a ringer as well.
And to have you know this, thishuman and you've spoken to your
(39:16):
genetic mirroring and thethings that you look up and look
like and act like andpotentially sound like Wow, can
you just imagine I'm struggling,that my brain is on fire right
now what that is like on theother side of our conversation
right.
Because all of their trauma nowis coming, coming back to the
(39:36):
surface or any of their grief.
You are handling it very well,I must say.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thanks, and again, I know I mentioned it before, but
I know that God's hand has beenin a lot of this.
Other people can call itcoincidence, that's fine.
I can just tell you that mywife is in my life for a reason.
Our past cost for reason, and Iknow that if I hadn't covered
any of this before meeting herand marrying her, I never would
have been ready.
I think that's an importantthing to remember.
(40:03):
Whether it's a significantother that you're not married to
, or a best friend or yourspouse, don't be afraid to lean
on them, because you know that'sone of the reasons they're
there, and if you try toshoulder all this, it is.
It is information over anemotional overload.
Coincidences, you know, and Iguess I just want to use an
example here, because I thinkit's from a movie, but I think
(40:26):
it makes a great kind ofmetaphor.
There's a movie it's actuallyit's a scary movie, kind of.
It's called Signs.
It's a sci-fi movie aboutaliens, but there's a part that
has nothing to do with aliensreally, though, where the father
of the household, who's a widow, is sitting with his one of his
sons.
They have a philosophical backand forth.
(40:46):
The father was still grievingthe loss of the wife from a
fierce prior because it was anunexpected death.
They get into a discussion andhe says there's two types of
people.
There's those who believe incoincidences and those that
don't.
What if there are nocoincidences?
That means that you knowthere's fate, and I feel like
that scene has replayed in myhead a lot.
(41:06):
There's so many things you likeat look at and think wow, like
either thank God that person wasthere or thankfully there was a
time the timeline unfolded theway it did in this way because
ultimately it was for the bestfor most, for the most part for
the people involved.
I know that at this age now Iwas emotionally I'm emotionally
mature enough and stable enough,thanks to the help I've had
(41:28):
from my wife and my closefriends, to have gone through
all this, and I completelyunderstand why some people can't
even talk about any of this.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, I understand that too right.
I mean, we can't expecteverybody to want to tell their
story and we never know wherethey are in their journey or how
they're processing.
And what I also found reallyinteresting about your journey
was you talked about coincidence.
I think it's irony.
There's some irony in yourstory.
(41:59):
And I'd like us to.
Yeah, just touch on that alittle bit, because, as you went
through all of this and Istarted this conversation with
you know you have a story thatwe sometimes just can't imagine
and it rips your heart out andit puts it back in and but
what's really intriguing is theirony of proximity when you were
(42:20):
growing up to your biology,your circle was pretty
intersected.
We might be able to do a Venndiagram.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
When I started talking to my siblings about
what part of town they grew upin, we found out first off that
they grew up just a few milesdown the road.
In the 80s my hometown wasprobably about a tenth the
population that it is now andit's still not even really that
big.
You know, there's basically thespace industry families that
are there were service workersand legal medical professionals,
(42:50):
so it was a town that was justbig enough where there were some
people you didn't know.
Odds are, if you mentionedsomeone's name, there's probably
just one person removed whereyou know there's a tie in.
We discovered that there was atleast a four to six month
stretch where I was in the sameelementary school and possibly
(43:12):
even in the same classroombecause my biological brother
was held back a grade from thattraumatic experience.
He was actually.
He was on the same timeline asme academic wise, and so there's
a 50 50 chance that I was inthe same exact classroom because
there were only two classroomsper grade at this school and it
gets crazier from there.
So crazier because I said well,after that I went to the
(43:35):
Christian school.
My logical sister said.
She said, well, yeah, we livedright near the Christian school
and we loved basketball.
After school would get out.
We'd go and play basketballbehind your school.
I would be in class and with anear shot I would hear people
playing basketball Dang.
That time I wasn't any good,but I played basketball for the
(43:59):
Christian school from fifthgrade, all the way through high
school, and we had to go out andplay on the courts behind the
school.
And when we would go out thereand this is where it just gets
insane Basically every time ourcoach would have to go over to a
couple of kids and say hi,you're always welcome to play
here when our school's insession and no teams are using
(44:19):
the court.
But this is private propertyand we just have to have
basketball practice, so can youplease leave the court?
He didn't say verbatim likethat, but that was the message
and they would go their way andI'm there just waiting on them
to get off the court and playbasketball.
Having no idea.
Sorry, it's really hard to getthrough this now, getting
emotional, having no idea that Iwas waiting on my brother and
(44:40):
sister to get off the court.
And this is what's so crazy ismy sister said there was a time
where we were playing around andmessing with fireworks and
actually caught a bunch of thisbunch of stuff on fire right
behind your school and Iremember that clear as day we
were definitely crossing paths,yeah.
So there were talking about allthose different instances and I
(45:00):
mean I figured there is atleast.
You basically can't go to anyschool.
Back then you couldn't go tothe store without seeing someone
you knew and there was justoverlap right, because there's
only so many places you can getgroceries and everything.
So really realistically lookingat it, our pass must have
crossed with my siblings dozensof times.
You can't help but think, wow,I wish I had known.
I would have been neat to haveknown.
(45:22):
But you also know that it'sprobably for the best that you
didn't know.
I know that wasn't juststartling for me, but literally
everyone involved in my closecircle, friends and family just
kind of a neat thing to lookback and reflect on.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, definitely pinpoints the craziness of this
journey as we continue to findout things about ourselves.
Well, we're going to wrap upand what I want to check in with
you on what is it that youreally want the listeners to
leave with today, matt?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
The fear is going to be there no matter what.
Find someone who can help younavigate through it.
And also one thing I wish Ikind of mentioned before is part
of that fear may be fear oflearning that your biological
family may have included somesides of it that weren't perfect
, or society may frown uponright, but there's also going to
(46:12):
be things you find out that areamazing.
I found out that my grandfathernot only gave Neil Armstrong
his first plane ride but alsoultimately ended up working on
figuring out the trajectory forthe lunar capsule that Neil
Armstrong piloted down to themoon, and he was part of a team
that was recognized with apresidential medal of honor for
(46:33):
it.
I never would have known that ifI had let fear completely take
over and had I not pushedforward.
I want to say that with allrespect, like if someone's not
ready and makes this a not to,then I understand that it's
tough to navigate these waters.
If you have a good supportsystem with you and your heart
(46:53):
starts to feel right about it,let yourself know that there's
going to be some things youcan't control.
It felt great to know thatthere was this actually really
proud family history going backto that.
Just follow your heart, butalso know that you can overcome
the fear and make some amazingnew connections.
Possibly, if you don't makeamazing new connections, then I
(47:15):
think, no matter what, you willat least have some closure to
areas of your life that may notplague you like they would have
otherwise.
Because you know what I thinkI've found out in life and I'll
close with this is just that thefear of the unknown is the
worst.
I think my favorite movie isthe first Jaws, and it's because
(47:36):
they barely show the shark atall, but they do show.
It doesn't look that great, butwhat everyone thinks of when
they get in the water isn't therubber shark.
They're thinking of thatunknown like what's below the
surface and that's what scaresus the most and I think for a
lot of us, a lot of adoptees,when we get rid of that unknown,
there's a piece that's foundand I hope that everyone who has
(48:00):
the strength to go through thisfinds that peace.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Well, well said, matt , and thank you for leaning into
the conversation and beingwilling to share your journey
with the listeners.
We thank you.
You're welcome here anytime.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It's been an honor to speak with you.
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
Make sure to rate, review andshare.
Want to join the conversation?
Contact us atwanderingtreeadoptdcom.
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