What would you do if you had to make one of the toughest decisions of your life? Join us on the Wandering Tree Podcast as we explore the heartfelt and emotional journeys of a birth mother navigating the experience of open adoption. In this episode, Jenny Becknell candidly shares her lived journey, from the moment she went into labor with her daughter Anna, through the tender hours spent in the hospital surrounded by family, friends, and Anna's adoptive parents. Through Jenny's moving journal to her daughter, listeners gain an intimate glimpse into the profound bonds and emotions forged during this life-changing process. The narrative reaches its emotional peak as she describes her last night in the hospital, holding her baby and grappling with the impending separation.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
And so we left the hospital and Anna went in her
car, in her little baby car seat, with her parents, and I got in
the car with my mom and wedrove away and we followed them
back to their house.
That was the first time I'dbeen outside in a couple of days
.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, lisa Ann.
We are an experience-based showfocused on sharing the journey
of adoption, identity, lifesearch and reunion A journey it
has been To date.
Here are what I personally havelearned.
Our numbers are many.
We yearn for support andunderstanding.
We desire to better ourselves.
(00:59):
We desire connections For some.
We strive to aid others throughgroups, books, blogs and
podcasts.
These items really do segueinto session two of our
three-part series CreatingConnection, understanding and
Empathy Between Birth Mothersand Adoptees.
With us again today is ourguest of honor, jenny Becknell.
(01:22):
Jenny is going to share with ustoday the next phase of her
personal experiencepost-adoption the first 18 years
.
So welcome again to the show,jenny.
Thank you for coming with ustoday.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Thank you, Lisa.
Thank you for having me back.
I'm ready for the next part ofthis as I take a deep breath.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, it was a great discussion in our first of three
episodes and we learned so muchabout your decision-making
process and it was justabsolutely a great conversation.
So I'm looking forward to today.
A great conversation.
(02:07):
So I'm looking forward to today.
Now, one of the things I wantto kind of level set is we are
going to talk about an openadoption experience.
It is not one that I've had.
I am from the closed adoptionera.
I don't have things about mylife pre-adoption available to
me, my life pre-adoptionavailable to me.
(02:29):
I had to take someextraordinary measures to find
my family over the course of thelast few years, and so I am
very intrigued about the openadoption perspective, and
specifically from a birth parent.
So I'm going to turn it over toyou.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So I'm going to turn it over to you.
Okay, so I will just start.
I guess when I went into laborwith Anna, and as we talked
about last time, I'd beenkeeping a notebook for her and
the last time that I had writtenin my little notebook for her
was on September the 28th andshe was born on October the 10th
.
So I was just letting her knowat that time that I had gone to
(03:06):
the doctor, that her parents andher sister had come over to my
house the day before I was hadalready kind of the letter
before.
That was really explaining toher how, how scared I was for
what this was going to be like,and so I'd sent her this.
The last time I wrote in herewas just telling her that her
(03:26):
parents are the best people inthe whole world and that we just
love them and that the time wasvery close and that I can't
wait to see her beautiful face,that we were all really excited
to meet her.
I'm just telling her that Ilove her and that I would see
her soon, and I said I love you,Jenny, your birth mother.
And then the next one that Iwrote to her was on October the
(03:50):
14th, where obviously she wasfour days old at that time and I
had been home from the hospital.
I had just gotten home from thehospital.
But just to backtrack a littlebit, basically I went into labor
with her and had gone into, mywater broke and so she did some
(04:11):
errands and dropped off mylittle brothers to my aunt, and
so we just kind of had a littleparty, I guess, before going to
(04:33):
the hospital.
And I remember at that time,just really as we're driving
around, I just remember being soexcited to meet her but not
wanting to part from her, andthat was just really, really
hard for me to even understandor to come to terms with what
(04:54):
that was going to be like.
And so, anyway, so I went intothe hospital with her, was in
labor with her for a very longtime.
I don't want to give likethere's only so much time that
we have, so I don't want to saytoo too much, but yet I want to
make sure I'm saying theimportant parts.
But in this letter that I wroteto her on October the 14th, I
tell her everything thathappened.
(05:15):
I tell her how I'm feeling.
I told her that I, you know, Ifelt fine, but I was upset
because I knew that before Iknew it that she and I were
going to become individuals andnot one person any longer, and
so that, of course, had mereally upset.
And then I really went intolike when I, what time I got to
the hospital, when I wasadmitted, when I got an IV, step
(05:37):
by step, when I got an epidural, like all of those things.
Who all was there when theycame in, what time they got
there, what time they left.
But anyway, so at 8.27 am shewas born and her parents had
come back and forth to thehospital and her mom was in the
(05:58):
room with me when I had her.
My mom was also in the roomwith me and so was my best
friend when I gave birth to herand she stayed in the room with
me the entire time we were inthe hospital.
I fed her, I wrote down youdrank a half of an ounce of your
bottle.
I heard all of those thingstalking about her wet diapers
(06:22):
and just different friends thathad come and gone.
There was a lot of people thatcame in and out of the hospital
while I was there.
Lots of my friends came, myfamily all came to see her, her
whole family, her grandmother,so a lot of people came in and
out of the hospital.
It was very busy.
It was good for me and that itallowed me to not feel anything,
(06:46):
because I was constantly busyand thinking about other people,
what was happening, who wascoming, who was going, and
making sure to maintain my smileon my face the whole time to
show everyone that I just knewthis was such a fabulous thing
that I was doing and that thesepeople were going to be able to
(07:08):
be parents to another beautifullittle girl and that my daughter
was going to have thesewonderful parents, unlike myself
.
The time that was reallydifficult for me was sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So, janine, let's take a pause right here a minute
before you get into the nextpart, which I suspect is going
to be really hard for youbecause I can tell from the
buildup.
I want to go backwards a littlebit.
That is the day of birth andall of the activity around that
and, as you were sharing that,you mentioned her parents
multiple times in your dialogue,times in your dialogue, and so
(07:43):
what that tells me, as part ofthis open adoption formula, you
had had regular contact,interaction prior to even the
birth.
Can you give us just a littlebit around that process and then
we'll circle back to?
You're coming towards the endof having given birth and the
(08:05):
hard day is approaching.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I don't have memory of any of this.
Honestly, if it was not forthese journals, I would not
remember any of these things,but I did not meet her parents
until like a month before shewas born.
I met her in September, so itwas 32 years ago this month,
possibly even on this same dayas we're recording that.
(08:31):
It could have been that I metthem for the first time.
I was in counseling during mypregnancy, so when I had come
back from college in May, I hadstarted seeing a counselor at
Catholic Charities to help methrough the adoption process.
Where and when exactly I madethe decision that I knew for
(08:53):
sure this was what I was goingto do.
I have no idea, I don't.
At that time it seems like Iknew that I was going to choose
an adoption plan for Anna, whichis the wording that we used at
the time.
From the moment I found out Iwas pregnant with her.
(09:14):
I mean, it's kind of crazy.
I couldn't obviously have knownthat immediately, but it seems
like I did.
I think part of that is becauseof my sister being pregnant and
knowing already what washappening and the advice my
parents were giving her, andthey were my only connection to
how life goes, because I didn'thave anything on my own.
(09:37):
I didn't have a job, I didn'thave anything of my own.
Everything was because of myparents.
I lived in their home and Idrove their car and I didn't
have anything of my own.
Everything was because of myparents.
I lived in their home and Idrove their car and, like I
didn't have anything of my own.
So.
But I did not even meet themuntil September.
But I had been going tocounseling to prepare me to make
this adoption plan for her andto understand what an open
(10:00):
adoption was and that I wasgoing to be able to have a
relationship with her and whatthat was going to look like.
There's just really there wasno way of knowing, but I just
knew that once I chose them, Iknew that they were her parents
and at that point it was likefollow through with your word.
I had to follow through with myword.
I gave them my word.
(10:21):
I had had a couple of storiesthat they had I know I had had a
failed adoption that they weregoing to adopt a child, and then
the plan I guess the parentchanged their mind or something
like that.
So I really wanted them to seelike I was different.
I was definitely going tofollow through with my word.
(10:42):
I wasn't going to be like that,which to me, is so silly now
that I think about that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, that sounds very stressful and difficult.
And now let's bring us all theway back to.
You've gone through the birthand you've had lots of visitors.
It helped take your mind off ofthings, but it didn't take away
from the day, so I know thispart is going to be really hard
for you.
It's okay.
(11:08):
I want to reassure you.
It's okay, tell us your side.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So I had a lot of people coming in and seeing me.
I found out that she wassupposed to go to a foster home
while all the legal papers werebeing signed for her adoption.
I was not aware of that.
Apparently, while I was incounseling, they did tell me
that.
I did not remember that.
So in the hospital I wascompletely shocked by that and
(11:37):
they had brought a couple inthat was going to foster her for
however long it took for thepaperwork to go through, foster
her for however long it took forthe paperwork to go through.
And I remember at that pointlike that was a hard no for me
and I put my foot down and I waslike no, this is absolutely
this cannot.
She is going, not going homewith these people that were
(11:59):
strangers to me and you know Isaid you know we are her family.
So she's either going home withher parents or she's going home
with me.
She's not going home to thepaperwork was going through and
how I could hold her and I couldbe with her until I, you know,
(12:29):
would eventually take them toher, which would never have
happened.
I know now that that wouldnever have happened.
I think everyone in the processknew that if she went home with
me that she would not have evergone anywhere else.
So they really worked to makethat not happen and she did
ultimately end up being able togo.
(12:49):
I don't know what they did tomake them quickly become foster
parents in 20 hours, butsomething magical happened in
the world and they were able tobe her foster home until they
could sign papers.
That was really difficult for me.
And then the night, the lastnight before we left the
(13:10):
hospital, was the night thatreally was hard for me the most,
because at nighttime it's quiet.
You know, you can't havevisitors.
I couldn't deal very well, eventhough I had people staying
with me, I think, to distract me, like my sister stayed with me
one night.
I cried and cried, and cried,and I didn't want anyone to know
(13:31):
I was crying and so I was veryquiet about it, which makes it
even harder when you're tryingto like not cry, when you're
emotional.
But I just remember justtalking to her like all night
long, just telling hereverything that I could think of
, that I wanted her to knowabout me, that I wanted her to
(13:52):
know about life, hours orwhatever.
They have to come in and theyalways write things down, you
know, like how much did the babydrink?
Did the baby poop, you know?
Was mom sleeping?
Was baby sleeping?
(14:12):
All the things they write down.
They keep a little journal andI remember seeing that paperwork
and I remember the paper sayingbaby sleeping in mother's arms
and I just remember thinkingthat was like the most amazing
gift to read that, because allof the nurses and the doctors
knew that there was, you know, aadoption going on in this,
(14:36):
behind these doors, you know,and that this mother was going
to be leaving the hospitalultimately without her child,
and yet these they still had therespect to call me her mom and
it just meant the world to me toread that on that paper and I
just I remember getting a copyof it and it meant so much to me
and I have no idea I lost thatpaper.
(14:59):
I don't know if I lost it, ifit was on purpose, I don't
remember if I gave it to herparents because I knew I didn't
want to lose that paper.
I'm not sure.
But anyway, it's just a pieceof paper and I will always
remember it.
But it meant a lot to me theday that she went home from the
hospital.
The people from the counselors,from Catholic Charities came to
(15:23):
the hospital and we did.
They did like this littleritual thing at the time where
you kind of like the parents,the adoptive parents, like had a
part where they said somethingand then I said something and
basically it was when, you know,I was blessing them with my
(15:43):
child and, and, I guess, kindtelling them like I'm entrusting
my child with you and I thankyou for loving her, and I don't
remember what the words were.
I wish I had a copy of what itwas that I said that day, but I
don't and that was the momentthat she became their little
(16:06):
girl.
After we did this ritual, itwas literally the last thing we
did before we left the hospitaland I had to hand her to her
parents, and when I handed herto her mom, she then handed her
back to me and so that we could,you know, I was in the
wheelchair and they wheeled usoutside and we all walked
together so I was able to bewheeled to the front door with
(16:30):
her in my arms and her mom wasjust so respectful to me at that
time because they didn't haveto do that.
We didn't have to hand her backto me, and they did, and her
mom said that it was importantto her that we did that because
she wanted me to know that wewere in this together.
And so we left the hospital andAnna went in her car, in her
(16:55):
little baby car seat, with herparents, and I got in the car
with my mom and we drove awayand we followed them back to
their house.
That was the first time I'd beenoutside in a couple of days,
you know, since Anna was stillpart of me, and so I just
remember, when we left thehospital that day, the entire
(17:19):
world was different.
Everything in the world wasdifferent.
The world looked different.
I didn't like nothing.
Nothing looked right, nothingmade sense.
I remember questioning as I wasdriving there, just in my head,
because I don't have arelationship with my mom and in
the capacity where I can talkabout my feelings, so I was
(17:40):
quiet and just thinking like.
I remember thinking, why is atree called a tree?
Because that's what I keptseeing out the window.
You know, why is grass calledgrass?
Like, who decided that that wasthe name of it?
Why didn't they decide that atree should be called a child or
a child should be called a tree, like who decided that word was
(18:02):
going to mean that thing?
Just very weird thoughts thatwere kind of going through my
head and I just remembered theworld changed that that day and
it just it never has been thesame, you know, and I I have
come to realize over the yearsI've tried to like make the
world the same again and it justwill never be the same again
(18:25):
and that's just has to be okayand I have to learn to like live
and deal with it.
After we left the hospital, youknow, she went with her family,
I went with my mom, we went backto their house.
I stayed there for a few hoursand then I was at her house.
That was on a Monday.
I was at her house on Tuesday,wednesday, thursday, friday,
saturday, sunday.
I went to her house.
That was on a Monday.
I was at her house on Tuesday,wednesday, thursday, friday,
saturday, sunday.
(18:46):
I went to her house everysingle day, for if I look at my
notes, I think it was the firstlike eight days of her life.
I was there every day.
I even wrote down the day shelost her umbilical cord and
saying you know that's what was,that's what attached us to each
other.
I wrote down the day she hadher first bath.
(19:08):
And crazy that on only nine daysafter this precious baby was
born, I myself drove an hour anda half away to go pick up her
birth father because we had tosign papers and I was not going
(19:29):
to sign papers until he signedthem first, and so I drove an
hour and a half, picked him up,drove an hour and a half back
and we went and we signed thesepapers and I showed him pictures
of her.
And we went to a birth parentgroup that same night together,
(19:50):
he and I, and talked to otherpregnant girls about the
decisions that they were goingto make to place their child.
I literally had a baby eightdays earlier.
He sat with me, he listened, hewas charming, everyone adored
him and thought he was so funny.
And then I drove an hour and ahalf back to drop him back off
(20:11):
and an hour and a half back home.
And I just think about that nowand I think I was a rock star,
like I can't believe I could dothat when she was so young a
rock star.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I can't believe I could do that when she was so
young.
As you were telling the storyaround, that these three things
kind of started percolating inmy mind.
Number one you were acting outof trauma.
Shock and you didn't know anybetter.
Shock and you didn't know anybetter, and you were propelling
(20:47):
yourself forward.
Listening to how hard it wasfor you, I think, is a precious
part of today's conversation.
Adoptees really cannot, from myexperience, understand that
(21:09):
pain in the same way Because,depending on your era of
adoption and the narrative yourmindset is, you know, plays
tricks on you.
I have heard a similar story.
When I finally connected withsome of my biological family and
I started asking questions, Ididn't have access right away to
my birth mother.
Her sisters were playinggatekeeper.
(21:29):
It was during COVID.
There were a boatload ofreasons.
Season one of the show is greatin explaining some of that, but
I asked you know, give me someof the details.
I just I don't have anything toleverage, no different than the
way you are positioning.
Memories are different and itwas so long ago.
(21:53):
And you know you're askingreally tough questions and in my
heart I'm thinking I'm askingheartfelt questions that no one,
no human should forget.
A baby was born, you left, youleft, and I just want a little
bit of understanding around that.
So I appreciate that you'veshared your perspective and how
(22:14):
hard it was for you.
Of the few tidbits I was given,one of them was that my maternal
grandmother held me and criedprofusely.
My birth mother cried also andthen cried all the way home in
the car period based off oftheir memories, where she was
(22:44):
allowed to mourn the loss of herchild because she had been told
, as others, that I actuallydied in childbirth.
They didn't want anybody toknow.
So if you didn't know she waspregnant, you didn't even know I
had existed, and so I just Ican't imagine what that would
have been like for her for allthose years.
And then when it finally cameout, and all the ways it came
out, some people knew, somepeople didn't know until I found
(23:07):
them.
I can just have nothing butempathy for your pain during
that time period.
And here we are talking aboutan event 30 some years later and
it still cuts you as if it wasyesterday.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yes, it does and it always does, and that was one of
the things that was, I think,really difficult for her mom
over the years.
Groups occasionally we did acouple of groups where we would
go and talk to prospectiveadoptive parents and I would get
very, very, very upset everytime and I would cry.
(23:43):
And the last time that we didone, she stopped me and pulled
me out in the hallway and wasjust like you've got to pull it
together, like this has been along time, like what's going on,
and I'm like it's never, it'snever, ever going to go away.
Every time I tell this story, Iam back there again.
She'll be 32 in October and Iimagine it will be like this, no
(24:10):
matter how many times I tellthe story.
You know, I mean maybeeventually some of the emotion
will go out of it.
I don't know, but it hasn't sofar.
So I don't see it happening.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I don't see it happening't so far, so I don't.
I don't see it happening.
I don't see it happening foryou either.
However, I do hope for you thateach time it's just a little
bit more of a cleansing momentfor you.
You know, or let's move forwarda little bit, and now let's
talk about how did you guysengage after those nine days
(24:42):
signing the paperwork, openadoption, what were some of the
highlights that were to havehappened, and did they yes or no
?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yes, they did.
I continued to visit with Annaand her family.
They continuously invited me totheir home.
I went there the first year ofher life.
I saw her at least 50 to 60times that I have written down,
and so I was there.
(25:11):
I don't know whatever.
That 365 divided by that'lltell you how often I was there.
Frequently, we can just go withfrequently wonderful family.
(25:37):
And you know why was I so upset?
And that was hard for me.
I just couldn't live there.
I kept feeling her kicking.
I kept feeling that.
For a long time I kept feelingher in my stomach.
I would feel, I mean, I wouldfeel kicks.
I don't know what it actuallywas, but I would just fall apart
in tears when I would realizewait a minute, she's not there.
It was hard to know when shewas sick and that I wasn't there
(26:01):
to comfort her.
I just had to wait until Iheard that she was no longer,
her ear infection was gone orher cold was gone or whatever it
might have been.
But I stayed always stayedpositive, always had a smile on
my face.
She was my absolute reason fordoing everything I did.
I remember making a veryconscious decision quickly that
(26:24):
I was going to live my life sothat when she was older that she
would see such an amazingperson in who I was that she
would question why I didn't justparent her, because I was so
wonderful and so amazing that Iwould have been such a great mom
to her.
And that's how I lived my life.
(26:45):
And I met my husband.
Shortly after, actually, Imoved in with my best friend
when she wasn't even a month oldand I met my husband, who I'm
married to now my husband.
I met him shortly after she wasborn.
So I we've been together for 32years and he and I've been
(27:06):
married.
There'll be 29 years thiscoming year.
I would go to her house.
Her mom was, and I don't knowwhere she got the wherewithal to
do this.
I don't know if it wascounseling, I don't know.
I would love to find out or ifit was just who she was.
(27:28):
But she shared everything withAnna about her, with me, in such
a beautiful way and was veryrespectful of my place and who I
was.
And she would, when Anna wouldget her first tooth or her first
, or you know she would, shewould stand up on her own or she
(27:52):
would crawl, or all of thosefirst things.
You know that parents write.
I wrote everything down so thatI would write down that people
write down about their childrenand their little and the little
down, so that I would write downthat people write down about
their children in their little,in the little baby books that we
always had.
Her mom would wait until I wasthere and I saw it with my own
eyes, to acknowledge that thatwas the first time.
(28:12):
And so, even though she mayhave popped that tooth through a
couple of days earlier when Isaw it, she would even act
surprised with me like shedidn't know it was there.
And she did that with all ofthose things.
And then, even once I realizedwait a minute, like I see what
you're doing here, you want meto feel like I'm part of this
(28:33):
with you and you know I realizewhat you're doing, she still
continued to do it and so shejust wanted me to have that as
being the first.
And I just always, looking backnow, like I just think that's,
you know, that was such a sweetthing that she did no-transcript
(28:59):
and she would acknowledgethings to me that were different
, like I would hold Anna and shewould sleep on my chest when I
was with her and she wouldalways lay with her head on
right, like by my heart, and hermom would notice that and her
mom would tell me that because,of course, I'm not there unless
(29:20):
I'm there, so when I'm not there, I don't know what's happening.
I'm not there unless I'm there,so when I'm not there, I don't
know what's happening.
She would share those thingswith me and I was around for
everything that she did.
I was there for all of her playsin high school.
I was there for communion.
I was there for her baptism.
I walked her down the aisle tobe baptized and they allowed me
(29:41):
to be up there with them whenshe was being baptized and when
I went on to get married shecame to my wedding and when I
had children my husband and Ihave four sons together they
would either visit us in thehospital to welcome the new baby
or they would come to my housewithin the first week or so to
welcome the new baby.
It started to change a littlebit as I look back.
(30:05):
It started to change a littlebit when Anna was like 12-ish,
12 or 13.
Her mom did call me one time tolet me know that Anna was
really having a rough timeleaving me, that it was causing
a lot of temper tantrums.
She had talked to a counselorabout it and the counselor
suggested that, instead of hercoming to pick Anna up for me,
(30:29):
that I should be the one to dropAnna off at her house, because
then I would be leaving Annainstead of Anna leaving me, and
that that might make it easierfor her.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's a mind bend in my book.
Wow, 12 is hard, preteen ishard.
I am just off of several yearsof preteen.
I would say girl preteen wasmuch harder than boy preteen,
much, much harder.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That's what I hear yeah.
I definitely hear that.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, it was brutal, and so I'm wondering you know we
can only speculate, but what amind bend for you to be in that
situation and then be kind ofasked to basically emulate
walking away again on a regularHard.
(31:21):
That had to have been hard inon a regular Hard.
That had to have been hard.
That had to have been hard forthe child too, at that precious
mental age.
I think about all of myabandonment issues as a
50-something-year-old adopteeand to have to think of that
through an open adoption process, either one of two things I
(31:43):
don't want to leave, or I'vebeen left again.
I have nothing I got to tellyou.
I've got nothing, maybe justshock and awe.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know what itwas like for her.
I don't know if Anna willremember that time or won't.
I don't know.
It's not something thatunfortunately, we don't have the
space to be able to have thosediscussions.
I look forward to it one day,when she's ready, if it's
(32:12):
something that she you know thatshe needs.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
But yeah, in this time period though, jenny I mean
it was there was never anythingyet in your story where I feel
you are putting yourself abovethe needs of your child.
Every iteration of this thatwe've talked about consistently
(32:35):
we indicated on the last episode.
We've been going back and forthfor several months.
I believe that to be astoundingfrom this perspective.
One of the adoptee fantasies Ihad was that my mom would come
back and get me my real momwould come back and get me, and
in an open adoption, you areconstantly there and coming back
(32:58):
and just wonder if that's stillseen as a gift or you know,
more difficult, it's blowing meaway.
Today, as we're talking about it, I might be a little bit off
track in my brain.
I need to calibrate againbecause it's just listening to
you and thinking about this fromthe adoptee perspective and
it's kind of tearing me up alittle bit, just like it's, you
(33:21):
know, for different reasons.
So, so interesting.
We'll have to dig into thatlater in a different way.
So, all right, you've beenpretty heavily involved.
All the major milestones likeliterally all the major
milestones what were some of thelegalities around the agreement
?
I don't think there was one.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I think it was just as open.
I told them that I wanted it tobe as open as they would allow
it to be.
I knew that that was in theirhands and I always, always
thanked her.
Her mother always thanked herfor allowing me to be in her
life.
I always had her up on apedestal.
I always told her what awonderful mother she was.
(34:05):
I was constant.
She was getting constant wordsof affirmation from me.
Everything that we did when wewere together, she would get a
play by play.
When I dropped her off, becauseI never wanted her to worry or
be concerned that anythingoff-handed was ever happening
when she wasn't around, becauseI wanted her to know that she
(34:29):
could trust her with me and thatI was a good person for her to
be with.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
And yeah, In hindsight, I'm wondering if it
was also a little bit out offear that if you didn't do all
those things, that you would becut off.
More specifically, because itwas fairly ambiguous in the
agreement, which is not unlikeeven closed adoptions Once the
day is done, the day is doneLegally, regardless of context
(34:54):
of open or closed that child is.
You know, gosh I don't want tosay the word, but belongs to.
I don't want to say that, butthat's the truth.
Belongs to another entity,because we can't just assume
connected.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Heavy today.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, it is a lot and it was, you know, during those
years for me having her, youknow I wouldn't.
If I would go back today, Iwouldn't want it to be any other
way.
I always am so happy that I wasstrong enough to endure the
(35:35):
pain, because I would never takeany of those memories or
moments back.
I adored her sister too, and soI was at her sister's, all of
her sister's events, and reallywanted to celebrate her sister.
But then at the same time, likeI said, I got married when she
was three and went on to havefour sons, and that was all in
(36:01):
the first 18 years of her lifetoo.
And so because of that, I wasbusy.
You know, I was busy, my brainwas busy, I didn't have time to
be sad and to be depressed andto be crying.
I had to keep moving forward andI had a daycare in my home for
10 years of that time.
She even had her own folder inmy daycare, signed by her
(36:25):
parents, that she was allowed tobe at my house in my daycare
during daycare hours because Ihad to do everything legally.
So that was weird to have, youknow, my own child be in my home
, not as my own child.
That was kind of strange for me, but yeah, I mean, I really did
want to make sure that I wasalways doing everything so that
(36:50):
she would be proud of who I was.
I think I did a pretty good jobat that.
Sometimes I do wonder how muchI, and if I, took away from my
sons because I was always sodetermined to be so great for
Anna that I, you know, I wonderthat with my boys.
(37:11):
I've asked them before and theysay no, like they didn't.
They know life no other way.
And they said they've alwayslooked at Anna as their sister.
They've never thought of it anydifferent.
So yeah, there's that wholeside of it too, like that's a
whole nother podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Well, it is good to hear, though, that during these
first 18 years, as you continueto stay connected and moved your
life forward.
It is very encouraging to hearyour story today and to know
that through these first 18years, there were so many
positive aspects, even thoughlistening to you has been, you
(37:49):
know, hurtful in the context of.
We can feel your pain.
I'm empathetic and I can feelhow you're going through this,
but it's also encouraging toknow how you kind of continue to
progress yourself.
You were able and willing tohave children.
I'm always a little tenderaround the word my raised
(38:13):
children or kept children.
I just think that that is adisservice to everybody.
My maybe not so humble opinionand I know there's not good
language to counter that with soI acknowledge that.
I think it's encouraging, too,that it's the only thing that
your sons have known, thatthat's their sister.
(38:34):
How powerful is that?
Because that's precious initself.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
If I ever wrote a book, it would be called I'm her
mother.
Wait, what was it?
She's my daughter, but I'm nother mother.
That would be probably the nameof my book.
She was always my daughter.
When we would go places, I wouldsay this is my daughter, anna.
This is my son, austin BlakeCollum Donovan.
You know, whatever I think,that's what I would say these
(39:00):
are my kids.
However, when I was with her, Iwas always birth mother.
This is my birth mother, jenny.
This is my birth mother, jenny.
This is my birth mother, jenny.
And so that sucked, but that'swhat it was.
And so, but yeah, my boysalways called her sissy and she
(39:22):
would always call them, you know, her little brothers, my bro,
my bro, my brothers, my littlebro, whatever.
And there was a point, there wasa point at some point and again
, I don't remember the age, butI do remember her mom telling me
I need you to tell the boys tostop calling her sissy.
Imagine how that feels for ourother daughter.
And I said, oh, I can't do that.
(39:45):
I can't do that and I won't dothat.
I've not instructed them tocall her that and that's what
they want to call her.
I'm not going to do that.
But what I will do is stopbringing them to your house so
that you don't have to see it.
But I won't tell them not tocall her that.
But thank you for sharing thatthat bothers you.
(40:08):
I guess it's a really bigdisservice that my children
didn't grow up, get to grow uphaving really a big sister,
because yes, she was, but no,she wasn't Same for her.
She has little brothers, butshe wasn't with her brothers
same, same for her.
She has little brothers, butyou know she wasn't with her
brothers.
You know, I've heard so manypeople that have been adopted
that will talk about I don'treally belong in either place,
(40:31):
even when she's with us, likewe're talking about Christmas
morning and all the presentsbeing opened and she was in a
different house opening presents.
She wasn't there and so it'sjust so unfair.
It's just so unfair to theadoptee and I think what's
really important is that myself,all I can do in looking back
(40:52):
over my experience is takeresponsibility for my part in it
.
I can't do anything about anyoneelse's part, but I will defend
to the end my daughter having nopart in it.
But I will defend to the end mydaughter having no part in it,
having no choice and being in aplace where she is constantly
being torn back and forth and Iwant to do everything I can to
(41:13):
not make her feel that way.
I have to, we have to, as birthmothers, take accountability
for our decision, and I say thatcarefully, because not all
birth mothers were in the sameplace that I am.
My situation is different thanin the baby scoop era.
(41:34):
Obviously, there was no choicethere at all.
When I made the choice that Imade, I made it because I truly,
100% believed it was best formy child.
I really, really believed that.
And had I done more researchinto the primal wound, had I
done more research into how thiswas going to affect Anna in the
long run, I would have made acompletely different decision.
(41:57):
But I did not do that researchand I did not know that.
I have told her many times thatif she's angry with me, if she's
upset with me, if she hasfeelings that she needs to share
with me, that I will listen.
Even if I don't agree, I willstill be there to listen and
(42:17):
hear what it is that she has tosay, and I do think that it is
important for every person to beable to do that, and adoptive
parents need to do that as well.
It's supposed to be aboutwhat's in the best interest of
the child.
I oftentimes will say, like,are we trying to create families
for people who cannot birththeir own children, or are we
(42:42):
trying to do what's best for thechild?
If the answer is that we'retrying to do what's best for the
child, then things need to.
You know, things need to changeand we need to do what we can
to support that in the future.
Like that's what needs tochange in all of this.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
I would agree.
Well, this is a good place forus to start winding down today's
episode.
Give a little teaser into whatcomes next.
You spoke a few minutes agoabout an instance where the
adoptive parent wanted you tochange the narrative with your
(43:18):
sons, with their sister, and youkind of pushed back, I believe,
with their sister and you kindof pushed back, I believe,
having heard your story, thatmoments like that were
precursors to what was to come.
And so we're going to, insession three, talk about
post-18 to present and thedifficulty in navigating that
(43:40):
and some of the journey post-18to present and the difficulty in
navigating that and some of thejourney post-18 years that
you've had with Anna and Anna'shad with you and her adoptive
parents.
So I think we're going to endhere today and thank you so much
for this dialogue and being sovulnerable with our listeners.
(44:02):
Again, I appreciate it and wewill pick this conversation up
in another episode.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Lisa.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode of Wandering
Tree Podcast.
Please rate, review and sharethis out so we can experience
the lived adoptee journeytogether.
Want to be a guest on our show?
Check us out atWanderingTreeAdoptee journey
together.
Want to be a guest on our show?
(44:33):
Check us out at.
And so we left the hospital and Anna went in her
car, in her little baby car seat, with her parents, and I got in
the car with my mom and wedrove away and we followed them
back to their house.
That was the first time I'dbeen outside in a couple of days
.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, lisa Ann.
We are an experience-based showfocused on sharing the journey
of adoption, identity, lifesearch and reunion A journey it
has been To date.
Here are what I personally havelearned.
Our numbers are many.
We yearn for support andunderstanding.
We desire to better ourselves.
(00:59):
We desire connections For some.
We strive to aid others throughgroups, books, blogs and
podcasts.
These items really do segueinto session two of our
three-part series CreatingConnection, understanding and
Empathy Between Birth Mothersand Adoptees.
With us again today is ourguest of honor, jenny Becknell.
(01:22):
Jenny is going to share with ustoday the next phase of her
personal experiencepost-adoption the first 18 years
.
So welcome again to the show,jenny.
Thank you for coming with ustoday.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Thank you, Lisa.
Thank you for having me back.
I'm ready for the next part ofthis as I take a deep breath.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, it was a great discussion in our first of three
episodes and we learned so muchabout your decision-making
process and it was justabsolutely a great conversation.
So I'm looking forward to today.
A great conversation.
(02:07):
So I'm looking forward to today.
Now, one of the things I wantto kind of level set is we are
going to talk about an openadoption experience.
It is not one that I've had.
I am from the closed adoptionera.
I don't have things about mylife pre-adoption available to
me, my life pre-adoptionavailable to me.
(02:29):
I had to take someextraordinary measures to find
my family over the course of thelast few years, and so I am
very intrigued about the openadoption perspective, and
specifically from a birth parent.
So I'm going to turn it over toyou.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So I'm going to turn it over to you.
Okay, so I will just start.
I guess when I went into laborwith Anna, and as we talked
about last time, I'd beenkeeping a notebook for her and
the last time that I had writtenin my little notebook for her
was on September the 28th andshe was born on October the 10th
.
So I was just letting her knowat that time that I had gone to
(03:06):
the doctor, that her parents andher sister had come over to my
house the day before I was hadalready kind of the letter
before.
That was really explaining toher how, how scared I was for
what this was going to be like,and so I'd sent her this.
The last time I wrote in herewas just telling her that her
(03:26):
parents are the best people inthe whole world and that we just
love them and that the time wasvery close and that I can't
wait to see her beautiful face,that we were all really excited
to meet her.
I'm just telling her that Ilove her and that I would see
her soon, and I said I love you,Jenny, your birth mother.
And then the next one that Iwrote to her was on October the
(03:50):
14th, where obviously she wasfour days old at that time and I
had been home from the hospital.
I had just gotten home from thehospital.
But just to backtrack a littlebit, basically I went into labor
with her and had gone into, mywater broke and so she did some
(04:11):
errands and dropped off mylittle brothers to my aunt, and
so we just kind of had a littleparty, I guess, before going to
(04:33):
the hospital.
And I remember at that time,just really as we're driving
around, I just remember being soexcited to meet her but not
wanting to part from her, andthat was just really, really
hard for me to even understandor to come to terms with what
(04:54):
that was going to be like.
And so, anyway, so I went intothe hospital with her, was in
labor with her for a very longtime.
I don't want to give likethere's only so much time that
we have, so I don't want to saytoo too much, but yet I want to
make sure I'm saying theimportant parts.
But in this letter that I wroteto her on October the 14th, I
tell her everything thathappened.
(05:15):
I tell her how I'm feeling.
I told her that I, you know, Ifelt fine, but I was upset
because I knew that before Iknew it that she and I were
going to become individuals andnot one person any longer, and
so that, of course, had mereally upset.
And then I really went intolike when I, what time I got to
the hospital, when I wasadmitted, when I got an IV, step
(05:37):
by step, when I got an epidural, like all of those things.
Who all was there when theycame in, what time they got
there, what time they left.
But anyway, so at 8.27 am shewas born and her parents had
come back and forth to thehospital and her mom was in the
(05:58):
room with me when I had her.
My mom was also in the roomwith me and so was my best
friend when I gave birth to herand she stayed in the room with
me the entire time we were inthe hospital.
I fed her, I wrote down youdrank a half of an ounce of your
bottle.
I heard all of those thingstalking about her wet diapers
(06:22):
and just different friends thathad come and gone.
There was a lot of people thatcame in and out of the hospital
while I was there.
Lots of my friends came, myfamily all came to see her, her
whole family, her grandmother,so a lot of people came in and
out of the hospital.
It was very busy.
It was good for me and that itallowed me to not feel anything,
(06:46):
because I was constantly busyand thinking about other people,
what was happening, who wascoming, who was going, and
making sure to maintain my smileon my face the whole time to
show everyone that I just knewthis was such a fabulous thing
that I was doing and that thesepeople were going to be able to
(07:08):
be parents to another beautifullittle girl and that my daughter
was going to have thesewonderful parents, unlike myself
.
The time that was reallydifficult for me was sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So, janine, let's take a pause right here a minute
before you get into the nextpart, which I suspect is going
to be really hard for youbecause I can tell from the
buildup.
I want to go backwards a littlebit.
That is the day of birth andall of the activity around that
and, as you were sharing that,you mentioned her parents
multiple times in your dialogue,times in your dialogue, and so
(07:43):
what that tells me, as part ofthis open adoption formula, you
had had regular contact,interaction prior to even the
birth.
Can you give us just a littlebit around that process and then
we'll circle back to?
You're coming towards the endof having given birth and the
(08:05):
hard day is approaching.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I don't have memory of any of this.
Honestly, if it was not forthese journals, I would not
remember any of these things,but I did not meet her parents
until like a month before shewas born.
I met her in September, so itwas 32 years ago this month,
possibly even on this same dayas we're recording that.
(08:31):
It could have been that I metthem for the first time.
I was in counseling during mypregnancy, so when I had come
back from college in May, I hadstarted seeing a counselor at
Catholic Charities to help methrough the adoption process.
Where and when exactly I madethe decision that I knew for
(08:53):
sure this was what I was goingto do.
I have no idea, I don't.
At that time it seems like Iknew that I was going to choose
an adoption plan for Anna, whichis the wording that we used at
the time.
From the moment I found out Iwas pregnant with her.
(09:14):
I mean, it's kind of crazy.
I couldn't obviously have knownthat immediately, but it seems
like I did.
I think part of that is becauseof my sister being pregnant and
knowing already what washappening and the advice my
parents were giving her, andthey were my only connection to
how life goes, because I didn'thave anything on my own.
(09:37):
I didn't have a job, I didn'thave anything of my own.
Everything was because of myparents.
I lived in their home and Idrove their car and I didn't
have anything of my own.
Everything was because of myparents.
I lived in their home and Idrove their car and, like I
didn't have anything of my own.
So.
But I did not even meet themuntil September.
But I had been going tocounseling to prepare me to make
this adoption plan for her andto understand what an open
(10:00):
adoption was and that I wasgoing to be able to have a
relationship with her and whatthat was going to look like.
There's just really there wasno way of knowing, but I just
knew that once I chose them, Iknew that they were her parents
and at that point it was likefollow through with your word.
I had to follow through with myword.
I gave them my word.
(10:21):
I had had a couple of storiesthat they had I know I had had a
failed adoption that they weregoing to adopt a child, and then
the plan I guess the parentchanged their mind or something
like that.
So I really wanted them to seelike I was different.
I was definitely going tofollow through with my word.
(10:42):
I wasn't going to be like that,which to me, is so silly now
that I think about that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, that sounds very stressful and difficult.
And now let's bring us all theway back to.
You've gone through the birthand you've had lots of visitors.
It helped take your mind off ofthings, but it didn't take away
from the day, so I know thispart is going to be really hard
for you.
It's okay.
(11:08):
I want to reassure you.
It's okay, tell us your side.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So I had a lot of people coming in and seeing me.
I found out that she wassupposed to go to a foster home
while all the legal papers werebeing signed for her adoption.
I was not aware of that.
Apparently, while I was incounseling, they did tell me
that.
I did not remember that.
So in the hospital I wascompletely shocked by that and
(11:37):
they had brought a couple inthat was going to foster her for
however long it took for thepaperwork to go through, foster
her for however long it took forthe paperwork to go through.
And I remember at that pointlike that was a hard no for me
and I put my foot down and I waslike no, this is absolutely
this cannot.
She is going, not going homewith these people that were
(11:59):
strangers to me and you know Isaid you know we are her family.
So she's either going home withher parents or she's going home
with me.
She's not going home to thepaperwork was going through and
how I could hold her and I couldbe with her until I, you know,
(12:29):
would eventually take them toher, which would never have
happened.
I know now that that wouldnever have happened.
I think everyone in the processknew that if she went home with
me that she would not have evergone anywhere else.
So they really worked to makethat not happen and she did
ultimately end up being able togo.
(12:49):
I don't know what they did tomake them quickly become foster
parents in 20 hours, butsomething magical happened in
the world and they were able tobe her foster home until they
could sign papers.
That was really difficult for me.
And then the night, the lastnight before we left the
(13:10):
hospital, was the night thatreally was hard for me the most,
because at nighttime it's quiet.
You know, you can't havevisitors.
I couldn't deal very well, eventhough I had people staying
with me, I think, to distract me, like my sister stayed with me
one night.
I cried and cried, and cried,and I didn't want anyone to know
(13:31):
I was crying and so I was veryquiet about it, which makes it
even harder when you're tryingto like not cry, when you're
emotional.
But I just remember justtalking to her like all night
long, just telling hereverything that I could think of
, that I wanted her to knowabout me, that I wanted her to
(13:52):
know about life, hours orwhatever.
They have to come in and theyalways write things down, you
know, like how much did the babydrink?
Did the baby poop, you know?
Was mom sleeping?
Was baby sleeping?
(14:12):
All the things they write down.
They keep a little journal andI remember seeing that paperwork
and I remember the paper sayingbaby sleeping in mother's arms
and I just remember thinkingthat was like the most amazing
gift to read that, because allof the nurses and the doctors
knew that there was, you know, aadoption going on in this,
(14:36):
behind these doors, you know,and that this mother was going
to be leaving the hospitalultimately without her child,
and yet these they still had therespect to call me her mom and
it just meant the world to me toread that on that paper and I
just I remember getting a copyof it and it meant so much to me
and I have no idea I lost thatpaper.
(14:59):
I don't know if I lost it, ifit was on purpose, I don't
remember if I gave it to herparents because I knew I didn't
want to lose that paper.
I'm not sure.
But anyway, it's just a pieceof paper and I will always
remember it.
But it meant a lot to me theday that she went home from the
hospital.
The people from the counselors,from Catholic Charities came to
(15:23):
the hospital and we did.
They did like this littleritual thing at the time where
you kind of like the parents,the adoptive parents, like had a
part where they said somethingand then I said something and
basically it was when, you know,I was blessing them with my
(15:43):
child and, and, I guess, kindtelling them like I'm entrusting
my child with you and I thankyou for loving her, and I don't
remember what the words were.
I wish I had a copy of what itwas that I said that day, but I
don't and that was the momentthat she became their little
(16:06):
girl.
After we did this ritual, itwas literally the last thing we
did before we left the hospitaland I had to hand her to her
parents, and when I handed herto her mom, she then handed her
back to me and so that we could,you know, I was in the
wheelchair and they wheeled usoutside and we all walked
together so I was able to bewheeled to the front door with
(16:30):
her in my arms and her mom wasjust so respectful to me at that
time because they didn't haveto do that.
We didn't have to hand her backto me, and they did, and her
mom said that it was importantto her that we did that because
she wanted me to know that wewere in this together.
And so we left the hospital andAnna went in her car, in her
(16:55):
little baby car seat, with herparents, and I got in the car
with my mom and we drove awayand we followed them back to
their house.
That was the first time I'd beenoutside in a couple of days,
you know, since Anna was stillpart of me, and so I just
remember, when we left thehospital that day, the entire
(17:19):
world was different.
Everything in the world wasdifferent.
The world looked different.
I didn't like nothing.
Nothing looked right, nothingmade sense.
I remember questioning as I wasdriving there, just in my head,
because I don't have arelationship with my mom and in
the capacity where I can talkabout my feelings, so I was
(17:40):
quiet and just thinking like.
I remember thinking, why is atree called a tree?
Because that's what I keptseeing out the window.
You know, why is grass calledgrass?
Like, who decided that that wasthe name of it?
Why didn't they decide that atree should be called a child or
a child should be called a tree, like who decided that word was
(18:02):
going to mean that thing?
Just very weird thoughts thatwere kind of going through my
head and I just remembered theworld changed that that day and
it just it never has been thesame, you know, and I I have
come to realize over the yearsI've tried to like make the
world the same again and it justwill never be the same again
(18:25):
and that's just has to be okayand I have to learn to like live
and deal with it.
After we left the hospital, youknow, she went with her family,
I went with my mom, we went backto their house.
I stayed there for a few hoursand then I was at her house.
That was on a Monday.
I was at her house on Tuesday,wednesday, thursday, friday,
saturday, sunday.
I went to her house.
That was on a Monday.
I was at her house on Tuesday,wednesday, thursday, friday,
saturday, sunday.
(18:46):
I went to her house everysingle day, for if I look at my
notes, I think it was the firstlike eight days of her life.
I was there every day.
I even wrote down the day shelost her umbilical cord and
saying you know that's what was,that's what attached us to each
other.
I wrote down the day she hadher first bath.
(19:08):
And crazy that on only nine daysafter this precious baby was
born, I myself drove an hour anda half away to go pick up her
birth father because we had tosign papers and I was not going
(19:29):
to sign papers until he signedthem first, and so I drove an
hour and a half, picked him up,drove an hour and a half back
and we went and we signed thesepapers and I showed him pictures
of her.
And we went to a birth parentgroup that same night together,
(19:50):
he and I, and talked to otherpregnant girls about the
decisions that they were goingto make to place their child.
I literally had a baby eightdays earlier.
He sat with me, he listened, hewas charming, everyone adored
him and thought he was so funny.
And then I drove an hour and ahalf back to drop him back off
(20:11):
and an hour and a half back home.
And I just think about that nowand I think I was a rock star,
like I can't believe I could dothat when she was so young a
rock star.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I can't believe I could do that when she was so
young.
As you were telling the storyaround, that these three things
kind of started percolating inmy mind.
Number one you were acting outof trauma.
Shock and you didn't know anybetter.
Shock and you didn't know anybetter, and you were propelling
(20:47):
yourself forward.
Listening to how hard it wasfor you, I think, is a precious
part of today's conversation.
Adoptees really cannot, from myexperience, understand that
(21:09):
pain in the same way Because,depending on your era of
adoption and the narrative yourmindset is, you know, plays
tricks on you.
I have heard a similar story.
When I finally connected withsome of my biological family and
I started asking questions, Ididn't have access right away to
my birth mother.
Her sisters were playinggatekeeper.
(21:29):
It was during COVID.
There were a boatload ofreasons.
Season one of the show is greatin explaining some of that, but
I asked you know, give me someof the details.
I just I don't have anything toleverage, no different than the
way you are positioning.
Memories are different and itwas so long ago.
(21:53):
And you know you're askingreally tough questions and in my
heart I'm thinking I'm askingheartfelt questions that no one,
no human should forget.
A baby was born, you left, youleft, and I just want a little
bit of understanding around that.
So I appreciate that you'veshared your perspective and how
(22:14):
hard it was for you.
Of the few tidbits I was given,one of them was that my maternal
grandmother held me and criedprofusely.
My birth mother cried also andthen cried all the way home in
the car period based off oftheir memories, where she was
(22:44):
allowed to mourn the loss of herchild because she had been told
, as others, that I actuallydied in childbirth.
They didn't want anybody toknow.
So if you didn't know she waspregnant, you didn't even know I
had existed, and so I just Ican't imagine what that would
have been like for her for allthose years.
And then when it finally cameout, and all the ways it came
out, some people knew, somepeople didn't know until I found
(23:07):
them.
I can just have nothing butempathy for your pain during
that time period.
And here we are talking aboutan event 30 some years later and
it still cuts you as if it wasyesterday.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yes, it does and it always does, and that was one of
the things that was, I think,really difficult for her mom
over the years.
Groups occasionally we did acouple of groups where we would
go and talk to prospectiveadoptive parents and I would get
very, very, very upset everytime and I would cry.
(23:43):
And the last time that we didone, she stopped me and pulled
me out in the hallway and wasjust like you've got to pull it
together, like this has been along time, like what's going on,
and I'm like it's never, it'snever, ever going to go away.
Every time I tell this story, Iam back there again.
She'll be 32 in October and Iimagine it will be like this, no
(24:10):
matter how many times I tellthe story.
You know, I mean maybeeventually some of the emotion
will go out of it.
I don't know, but it hasn't sofar.
So I don't see it happening.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I don't see it happening't so far, so I don't.
I don't see it happening.
I don't see it happening foryou either.
However, I do hope for you thateach time it's just a little
bit more of a cleansing momentfor you.
You know, or let's move forwarda little bit, and now let's
talk about how did you guysengage after those nine days
(24:42):
signing the paperwork, openadoption, what were some of the
highlights that were to havehappened, and did they yes or no
?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yes, they did.
I continued to visit with Annaand her family.
They continuously invited me totheir home.
I went there the first year ofher life.
I saw her at least 50 to 60times that I have written down,
and so I was there.
(25:11):
I don't know whatever.
That 365 divided by that'lltell you how often I was there.
Frequently, we can just go withfrequently wonderful family.
(25:37):
And you know why was I so upset?
And that was hard for me.
I just couldn't live there.
I kept feeling her kicking.
I kept feeling that.
For a long time I kept feelingher in my stomach.
I would feel, I mean, I wouldfeel kicks.
I don't know what it actuallywas, but I would just fall apart
in tears when I would realizewait a minute, she's not there.
It was hard to know when shewas sick and that I wasn't there
(26:01):
to comfort her.
I just had to wait until Iheard that she was no longer,
her ear infection was gone orher cold was gone or whatever it
might have been.
But I stayed always stayedpositive, always had a smile on
my face.
She was my absolute reason fordoing everything I did.
I remember making a veryconscious decision quickly that
(26:24):
I was going to live my life sothat when she was older that she
would see such an amazingperson in who I was that she
would question why I didn't justparent her, because I was so
wonderful and so amazing that Iwould have been such a great mom
to her.
And that's how I lived my life.
(26:45):
And I met my husband.
Shortly after, actually, Imoved in with my best friend
when she wasn't even a month oldand I met my husband, who I'm
married to now my husband.
I met him shortly after she wasborn.
So I we've been together for 32years and he and I've been
(27:06):
married.
There'll be 29 years thiscoming year.
I would go to her house.
Her mom was, and I don't knowwhere she got the wherewithal to
do this.
I don't know if it wascounseling, I don't know.
I would love to find out or ifit was just who she was.
(27:28):
But she shared everything withAnna about her, with me, in such
a beautiful way and was veryrespectful of my place and who I
was.
And she would, when Anna wouldget her first tooth or her first
, or you know she would, shewould stand up on her own or she
(27:52):
would crawl, or all of thosefirst things.
You know that parents write.
I wrote everything down so thatI would write down that people
write down about their childrenand their little and the little
down, so that I would write downthat people write down about
their children in their little,in the little baby books that we
always had.
Her mom would wait until I wasthere and I saw it with my own
eyes, to acknowledge that thatwas the first time.
(28:12):
And so, even though she mayhave popped that tooth through a
couple of days earlier when Isaw it, she would even act
surprised with me like shedidn't know it was there.
And she did that with all ofthose things.
And then, even once I realizedwait a minute, like I see what
you're doing here, you want meto feel like I'm part of this
(28:33):
with you and you know I realizewhat you're doing, she still
continued to do it and so shejust wanted me to have that as
being the first.
And I just always, looking backnow, like I just think that's,
you know, that was such a sweetthing that she did no-transcript
(28:59):
and she would acknowledgethings to me that were different
, like I would hold Anna and shewould sleep on my chest when I
was with her and she wouldalways lay with her head on
right, like by my heart, and hermom would notice that and her
mom would tell me that because,of course, I'm not there unless
(29:20):
I'm there, so when I'm not there, I don't know what's happening.
I'm not there unless I'm there,so when I'm not there, I don't
know what's happening.
She would share those thingswith me and I was around for
everything that she did.
I was there for all of her playsin high school.
I was there for communion.
I was there for her baptism.
I walked her down the aisle tobe baptized and they allowed me
(29:41):
to be up there with them whenshe was being baptized and when
I went on to get married shecame to my wedding and when I
had children my husband and Ihave four sons together they
would either visit us in thehospital to welcome the new baby
or they would come to my housewithin the first week or so to
welcome the new baby.
It started to change a littlebit as I look back.
(30:05):
It started to change a littlebit when Anna was like 12-ish,
12 or 13.
Her mom did call me one time tolet me know that Anna was
really having a rough timeleaving me, that it was causing
a lot of temper tantrums.
She had talked to a counselorabout it and the counselor
suggested that, instead of hercoming to pick Anna up for me,
(30:29):
that I should be the one to dropAnna off at her house, because
then I would be leaving Annainstead of Anna leaving me, and
that that might make it easierfor her.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's a mind bend in my book.
Wow, 12 is hard, preteen ishard.
I am just off of several yearsof preteen.
I would say girl preteen wasmuch harder than boy preteen,
much, much harder.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That's what I hear yeah.
I definitely hear that.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, it was brutal, and so I'm wondering you know we
can only speculate, but what amind bend for you to be in that
situation and then be kind ofasked to basically emulate
walking away again on a regularHard.
(31:21):
That had to have been hard inon a regular Hard.
That had to have been hard.
That had to have been hard forthe child too, at that precious
mental age.
I think about all of myabandonment issues as a
50-something-year-old adopteeand to have to think of that
through an open adoption process, either one of two things I
(31:43):
don't want to leave, or I'vebeen left again.
I have nothing I got to tellyou.
I've got nothing, maybe justshock and awe.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know what itwas like for her.
I don't know if Anna willremember that time or won't.
I don't know.
It's not something thatunfortunately, we don't have the
space to be able to have thosediscussions.
I look forward to it one day,when she's ready, if it's
(32:12):
something that she you know thatshe needs.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
But yeah, in this time period though, jenny I mean
it was there was never anythingyet in your story where I feel
you are putting yourself abovethe needs of your child.
Every iteration of this thatwe've talked about consistently
(32:35):
we indicated on the last episode.
We've been going back and forthfor several months.
I believe that to be astoundingfrom this perspective.
One of the adoptee fantasies Ihad was that my mom would come
back and get me my real momwould come back and get me, and
in an open adoption, you areconstantly there and coming back
(32:58):
and just wonder if that's stillseen as a gift or you know,
more difficult, it's blowing meaway.
Today, as we're talking about it, I might be a little bit off
track in my brain.
I need to calibrate againbecause it's just listening to
you and thinking about this fromthe adoptee perspective and
it's kind of tearing me up alittle bit, just like it's, you
(33:21):
know, for different reasons.
So, so interesting.
We'll have to dig into thatlater in a different way.
So, all right, you've beenpretty heavily involved.
All the major milestones likeliterally all the major
milestones what were some of thelegalities around the agreement
?
I don't think there was one.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I think it was just as open.
I told them that I wanted it tobe as open as they would allow
it to be.
I knew that that was in theirhands and I always, always
thanked her.
Her mother always thanked herfor allowing me to be in her
life.
I always had her up on apedestal.
I always told her what awonderful mother she was.
(34:05):
I was constant.
She was getting constant wordsof affirmation from me.
Everything that we did when wewere together, she would get a
play by play.
When I dropped her off, becauseI never wanted her to worry or
be concerned that anythingoff-handed was ever happening
when she wasn't around, becauseI wanted her to know that she
(34:29):
could trust her with me and thatI was a good person for her to
be with.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
And yeah, In hindsight, I'm wondering if it
was also a little bit out offear that if you didn't do all
those things, that you would becut off.
More specifically, because itwas fairly ambiguous in the
agreement, which is not unlikeeven closed adoptions Once the
day is done, the day is doneLegally, regardless of context
(34:54):
of open or closed that child is.
You know, gosh I don't want tosay the word, but belongs to.
I don't want to say that, butthat's the truth.
Belongs to another entity,because we can't just assume
connected.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Heavy today.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, it is a lot and it was, you know, during those
years for me having her, youknow I wouldn't.
If I would go back today, Iwouldn't want it to be any other
way.
I always am so happy that I wasstrong enough to endure the
(35:35):
pain, because I would never takeany of those memories or
moments back.
I adored her sister too, and soI was at her sister's, all of
her sister's events, and reallywanted to celebrate her sister.
But then at the same time, likeI said, I got married when she
was three and went on to havefour sons, and that was all in
(36:01):
the first 18 years of her lifetoo.
And so because of that, I wasbusy.
You know, I was busy, my brainwas busy, I didn't have time to
be sad and to be depressed andto be crying.
I had to keep moving forward andI had a daycare in my home for
10 years of that time.
She even had her own folder inmy daycare, signed by her
(36:25):
parents, that she was allowed tobe at my house in my daycare
during daycare hours because Ihad to do everything legally.
So that was weird to have, youknow, my own child be in my home
, not as my own child.
That was kind of strange for me, but yeah, I mean, I really did
want to make sure that I wasalways doing everything so that
(36:50):
she would be proud of who I was.
I think I did a pretty good jobat that.
Sometimes I do wonder how muchI, and if I, took away from my
sons because I was always sodetermined to be so great for
Anna that I, you know, I wonderthat with my boys.
(37:11):
I've asked them before and theysay no, like they didn't.
They know life no other way.
And they said they've alwayslooked at Anna as their sister.
They've never thought of it anydifferent.
So yeah, there's that wholeside of it too, like that's a
whole nother podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Well, it is good to hear, though, that during these
first 18 years, as you continueto stay connected and moved your
life forward.
It is very encouraging to hearyour story today and to know
that through these first 18years, there were so many
positive aspects, even thoughlistening to you has been, you
(37:49):
know, hurtful in the context of.
We can feel your pain.
I'm empathetic and I can feelhow you're going through this,
but it's also encouraging toknow how you kind of continue to
progress yourself.
You were able and willing tohave children.
I'm always a little tenderaround the word my raised
(38:13):
children or kept children.
I just think that that is adisservice to everybody.
My maybe not so humble opinionand I know there's not good
language to counter that with soI acknowledge that.
I think it's encouraging, too,that it's the only thing that
your sons have known, thatthat's their sister.
(38:34):
How powerful is that?
Because that's precious initself.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
If I ever wrote a book, it would be called I'm her
mother.
Wait, what was it?
She's my daughter, but I'm nother mother.
That would be probably the nameof my book.
She was always my daughter.
When we would go places, I wouldsay this is my daughter, anna.
This is my son, austin BlakeCollum Donovan.
You know, whatever I think,that's what I would say these
(39:00):
are my kids.
However, when I was with her, Iwas always birth mother.
This is my birth mother, jenny.
This is my birth mother, jenny.
This is my birth mother, jenny.
And so that sucked, but that'swhat it was.
And so, but yeah, my boysalways called her sissy and she
(39:22):
would always call them, you know, her little brothers, my bro,
my bro, my brothers, my littlebro, whatever.
And there was a point, there wasa point at some point and again
, I don't remember the age, butI do remember her mom telling me
I need you to tell the boys tostop calling her sissy.
Imagine how that feels for ourother daughter.
And I said, oh, I can't do that.
(39:45):
I can't do that and I won't dothat.
I've not instructed them tocall her that and that's what
they want to call her.
I'm not going to do that.
But what I will do is stopbringing them to your house so
that you don't have to see it.
But I won't tell them not tocall her that.
But thank you for sharing thatthat bothers you.
(40:08):
I guess it's a really bigdisservice that my children
didn't grow up, get to grow uphaving really a big sister,
because yes, she was, but no,she wasn't Same for her.
She has little brothers, butshe wasn't with her brothers
same, same for her.
She has little brothers, butyou know she wasn't with her
brothers.
You know, I've heard so manypeople that have been adopted
that will talk about I don'treally belong in either place,
(40:31):
even when she's with us, likewe're talking about Christmas
morning and all the presentsbeing opened and she was in a
different house opening presents.
She wasn't there and so it'sjust so unfair.
It's just so unfair to theadoptee and I think what's
really important is that myself,all I can do in looking back
(40:52):
over my experience is takeresponsibility for my part in it
.
I can't do anything about anyoneelse's part, but I will defend
to the end my daughter having nopart in it.
But I will defend to the end mydaughter having no part in it,
having no choice and being in aplace where she is constantly
being torn back and forth and Iwant to do everything I can to
(41:13):
not make her feel that way.
I have to, we have to, as birthmothers, take accountability
for our decision, and I say thatcarefully, because not all
birth mothers were in the sameplace that I am.
My situation is different thanin the baby scoop era.
(41:34):
Obviously, there was no choicethere at all.
When I made the choice that Imade, I made it because I truly,
100% believed it was best formy child.
I really, really believed that.
And had I done more researchinto the primal wound, had I
done more research into how thiswas going to affect Anna in the
long run, I would have made acompletely different decision.
(41:57):
But I did not do that researchand I did not know that.
I have told her many times thatif she's angry with me, if she's
upset with me, if she hasfeelings that she needs to share
with me, that I will listen.
Even if I don't agree, I willstill be there to listen and
(42:17):
hear what it is that she has tosay, and I do think that it is
important for every person to beable to do that, and adoptive
parents need to do that as well.
It's supposed to be aboutwhat's in the best interest of
the child.
I oftentimes will say, like,are we trying to create families
for people who cannot birththeir own children, or are we
(42:42):
trying to do what's best for thechild?
If the answer is that we'retrying to do what's best for the
child, then things need to.
You know, things need to changeand we need to do what we can
to support that in the future.
Like that's what needs tochange in all of this.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
I would agree.
Well, this is a good place forus to start winding down today's
episode.
Give a little teaser into whatcomes next.
You spoke a few minutes agoabout an instance where the
adoptive parent wanted you tochange the narrative with your
(43:18):
sons, with their sister, and youkind of pushed back, I believe,
with their sister and you kindof pushed back, I believe,
having heard your story, thatmoments like that were
precursors to what was to come.
And so we're going to, insession three, talk about
post-18 to present and thedifficulty in navigating that
(43:40):
and some of the journey post-18to present and the difficulty in
navigating that and some of thejourney post-18 years that
you've had with Anna and Anna'shad with you and her adoptive
parents.
So I think we're going to endhere today and thank you so much
for this dialogue and being sovulnerable with our listeners.
(44:02):
Again, I appreciate it and wewill pick this conversation up
in another episode.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Lisa.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode of Wandering
Tree Podcast.
Please rate, review and sharethis out so we can experience
the lived adoptee journeytogether.
Want to be a guest on our show?
Check us out atWanderingTreeAdoptee journey
together.
Want to be a guest on our show?
(44:33):
Check us out at.
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