June 28, 2023 • 47 mins
What if you had the chance to hear a powerful story of adoption, mental illness, and healing from someone who experienced it firsthand? We're honored to have Danielle Gaudette, author of Healing Tree, share her incredible journey with us.
From being adopted just 10 days after her birth to reuniting with her biological mother at 21, Danielle opens up about the challenges she faced growing up with an adopted mother suffering from bouts of mental illness and how it affected her own life perspectives and health.
Together, we discuss the struggles she faced with loyalty, anxiety, and neurosis when reconnecting with her birth family. Danielle shares how Body and Brain became a vital outlet for her healing process. Through her experiences at the center, Danielle learned about her own energy and how to ground herself, leading to significant personal growth and understanding.
In our conversation, Danielle and I examine the eight steps of healing and self-discovery, emphasizing the importance of practice and patience in order to retrain our brains and create the lives we want for ourselves. We also discuss the power of muscle memory in building cognitive development. Finally, Danielle shares her insights on the process of healing for adoptees and the importance of self-mastery and self-growth in order to authentically support others with similar experiences.
Check out the Pilot Course: Self-Mastery for Adoptees https://info.bodynbrain.com/smp-a
or
Connect with Danielle via the following
FB - https://www.facebook.com/danielle.gaudette.33
Website - https://www.daniellegaudette.com/
IG - https://www.instagram.com/danielle.gaudette/
Good Reads - https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/22338461.Danielle_Gaudette
Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/stores/Danielle-Gaudette/author/B09X7BJD4C?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, Lisa Ann.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I sign yoga.
I need yoga.
My mother, my doctor mother,said oh, i saw a place on the
street, i think, where she satat the red light, like in front
of the gas station.
She spotted it up above, so itwas very remote.
It was a huge blessing that Istumbled upon it, and now I'll
(00:38):
Welcome to today's show.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I am very pleased to have with me today as our guest
Danielle Goddard.
She is the author of the bookHealing Tree, an adoptee story
about hurting, healing andletting the light shine through.
Welcome, thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
Yeah, it is absolutely apleasure to have you aboard with
(01:01):
us today.
I am really looking forward toour discussion for our listeners
, and we're going to kick it offwith a little bit about you.
If you could give us a you knowkind of an overview of who is
Danielle today.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Okay, sure, so Danielle is a 20 year.
I'm a 20 year body and braincoach, i said.
The interesting thing aboutthat is that I got to this work
and this place in my lifebecause of the healing journey
that I embarked on about 23, 24years ago now, which was also on
(01:41):
the heels of my reunion with mybiological mother.
So all these things are kind ofconnected.
I was born 1977 and adopted 10days later.
My adopted family came down toManhattan where I was born
through the Catholic CharityBureau and they picked me up and
(02:01):
I was raised outside of Bostonin a suburb called Watertown,
massachusetts.
And yeah, they were greatparents, very loving, very.
We had very good connections.
They were very honest and loyaland sincere people.
But I would say the pain of mychildhood was that my adopted
(02:25):
mother, who was really my bestfriend at that time she suffered
from very severe anxiety anddepression.
It was really a mental illnessthat would just unravel at any
time and we were all kind of onour toes with that from the time
that I was about six years old.
So I did a lot of caring forher and I suffered with that and
(02:51):
that was my life until I met mybiological mother at 21, pretty
young, yeah, which is notcommon.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So we're going to note that and your experience
relative to the decision tosearch and how you came to come
to connection.
I found that a littleinteresting.
It was almost like the perfecthappy path that many other
adoptees would love, and youjust had an opportunity to
experience that For ourlisteners.
(03:21):
tell us a little bit about that.
You know you've known all yourlife.
you were adopted.
What was the decision?
When could you come to thedecision?
What was the decision?
How did you proceed?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah.
So my parents were very honestand transparent people.
They raised me telling me thatI was adopted, so I always knew,
and they also told me that whenI was 18, i could search if I
wanted to.
I wanted to look for mybiological parents and I had
that somewhere in my mind.
(03:52):
I was so consumed with theworld of well, my dramatic
teenage years, plus myconnection with my parents and
also my mother's mental,emotional struggle, that I
really tried so hard to help herwith that.
It was in my mind, but when Iturned 18, i just was not
(04:15):
anywhere near doing that.
And then it wasn't until acouple of years later I
transferred from the Universityof New Hampshire to the
University of Iowa and I justfelt a lot more stabilized in my
life.
I felt happier in my school andI was meeting lots of people
and they were always asking oh,where are you from?
(04:36):
You know what's your heritage?
And they were guessing becauseI didn't know the answer And I
just started to feel like youknow what?
I?
just I want to know.
I don't know the answer andeverybody else knows.
Why can't I know?
I have a lot of adopted friends.
I had my younger sister who wasadopted but that she was really
the only other adoptee in mylife.
(04:57):
So it was a curiosity thing andI thought I was late.
Right, i was behind schedulebecause I could search when I
was 18, but no 20, and I haven'teven started yet.
That's what I was thinking atthat time.
So I thought maybe if I couldjust find some pictures and the
(05:17):
heritage where does my bloodline come from Then that will
satisfy my curiosity.
So, as you said, it was kind ofsmooth and easy in comparison
probably to many other stories.
I don't know everybody's story.
I thought mine was going to belong and are five years, 10
(05:40):
years, like knocking onsomeone's door.
I thought it was going to bereally, really complicated.
But I just wrote a letter tothe Catholic Charity Bureau
where I was adopted through.
They wrote back saying my fileswere burned in a fire.
They told me to contact thestate of New York.
I did.
They wrote back.
(06:01):
This was kind of over theperiod of what Six, seven months
.
They wrote back and said youwere born in New York but you
were adopted throughMassachusetts courts.
Then they gave me this brochurebut they were like we can't
help you, but they gave me thisbrochure from this International
Sound Ex Reunion RegistryCompany.
They said if you or one of yourbirth parents become members,
(06:23):
this organization will match you.
That's what happened, literallytwo weeks later after I filled
it out and sent it in.
I got a match, they made a match.
It happened so fast I think forme, even though it was easy and
smooth, it was overwhelmingbecause it was that easy.
It was like a gentle knock onthe door and the door went
(06:45):
flying open and I kind of fellon my face.
It felt like that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's a great analogy.
I also like the hope that youmight be giving to others that
it can happen in a smooth way.
Maybe it doesn't.
We've heard stories bothdirections.
I like the positivity of it canhappen A little bit of hope.
(07:09):
Nothing's wrong with hope atall.
You've mentioned a couple ofdifferent things that I would
like us to maybe dig in a littlebit here relative to your
upbringing.
As we know, especially now intoday's society and areas of
thought that we're going through, mental health is one of the
(07:31):
key marks that we're focusing onand more cognizant of, to help
people.
In your book you talk a littlebit about the mental health
aspects of your adopted motherand what that was like for you
as a child.
I'm going to reference the pagekind of one of the sections
(07:53):
that ran home for me in yourbook.
It is well, i lost it.
Of course I would lose it.
Sorry listeners, i lost it Andnow you're going to hear me
going through the book.
It was really the framingaround your thought process as
it relates to your adoptedmother and how you ended up with
(08:17):
this negative kind of mentalityto that.
Do you want to speak to that alittle bit more?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, sure.
So she started to really havethese episodes from the time
that I was about six years oldAnd I really I feel like it
really shook my sense of safetyand stability And even though I
loved her so much, but that thatthat that safety of that love
would disappear whenever shewould kind of unravel.
(08:46):
I really grew up first of alltrying to take care of her,
doing everything I could to makeher happy, make her smile, but
also meanwhile I was developingvery extreme version of worry
(09:07):
and anxiety, to the degree ofneuroses and hypochondria.
I mean, all my teachers wouldbe like Daniels a worry, war,
you know she has.
Everyone knew this about me Andthat just wore on me as I grew
older and it just morphed intoan extreme fear.
(09:30):
And so when I got, when Istarted my healing journey, i
started really looking inward.
I first examined my childhoodand the feelings that I found
there were.
Well, there's this fear and thesuccessive habit of worry, and
then there's this deep sadnessAnd I keep looping back around
(09:53):
in my mind like, oh, my motherwas sick And so it was hard and
I had to take care of her, andit was really sad and I became
really anxious And it was justthis loop, it was like a belief.
So the chapter you're referringto is when I did this course
right, and I did this healingwater meditation, where I was
(10:17):
making this healing water for mymother.
So I was meditating deeply onmy journey with her and seeing
so clearly, just in that 40minutes of sitting there staring
at a glass of water, i waswatching my mind loop around on
this track And at some moment Ithink, in examining it so
(10:37):
honestly and clearly, and alsomy desperate, deep, deep, deep
wish for healing, first andforemost for my mother, but also
feeling the compassion formyself suddenly like wow, i had
this sadness in me since I wasvery little.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
This has been an agonizing track in my brain,
something open I think, becauseI was really wishing so much for
healing in that meditation andthat healing water meditation
that something shifted And Iwrite about it there, how the
track shifted Yeah Well, i thinka lot of people can resonate
(11:18):
with the negative pattern, andso the way that you have
described it I was immediatelyin the thought process of oh,
i've heard this, i've thoughtthis, i've probably said this,
and you kind of capture it withmy mother was mentally ill.
It was so painful for me.
That's why I'm depressed.
Life is hard, and I could say mymantra in the similar context
(11:42):
is my mother wasn't veryemotionally loving.
I constantly was looking forher approval.
We had a difficult relationship.
All of my relationships seem tobe difficult.
Why is life so hard?
And so I loved the reframing ofit through this process and
your healing process, which wewill dive into more about what
(12:03):
that is, what it's really named,where you then change the
mantra.
Do you mind if I read what themantra was and how you've
reframed it?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, please do.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You change from a negative pattern into one that
is a little healthier, and itgoes.
My mother was mentally ill.
It was so painful for me.
I did my best to help her.
Through helping her, icultivated a healer's mind
within me.
It was her suffering that ledto my soul's path in this
(12:34):
lifetime.
I am so grateful for theperfection of my journey And I'm
not there.
I love that you were able toget there through this healing
process, Your tools we'll talkabout the toolbox as we move
forward, but I started thinkingabout it and I'm really going to
try to reframe even myperception of my mother and how
(12:57):
that all came about.
Maybe she's made me a moreloving person at the end of it.
Right, i'm very empathetic, bythe way, like I can cry on a
dime.
I don't know about you, butsomeone will walk in and they'll
be crying and all of a suddenI'll start crying because
they're crying And I just wantto take care of them and nurture
them And I loved that.
That, by the way, for listenerswhen you get this book, because
(13:19):
I'm going to highly recommendpage 88.
And you're right, the chapteris called Healing Water.
So very, very good.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout your reunion, because your
reunion kind of some of thethings you were feeling, your
disconnection, i think, fromyourself really led you into not
only this book, really your whylife's path journey.
(13:41):
So you want to talk a littlebit more about that kind of
bring us into some of your upsand downs of your reunion
journey and your disconnection.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, so that happened when I was 21 years old
.
So 25 years ago was my reunionand I have been in reunion since
then.
And you know, think about this,this young, worried, anxious,
fearful, neurotic girl who'shaving a hard time just managing
(14:14):
her own thoughts and emotionsas it is, who's having a hard
time accepting the world as itis because it scares her.
That's the kind of conditionthat I was in.
And then I knock on the door,go spline open, i meet my
biological mother and somehow Itwas amazingly hopeful that it
(14:34):
was so smooth for me.
But emotionally it caused ahuge overwhelm that I didn't
expect, i didn't anticipate,although I hadn't really wanted
to have a relationship with mybiological mother or father
because prior to finding them,because I was so close with my
parents and that felt like apoint of conflict for me.
(14:56):
So it opened this massive doorof conflict.
I felt guilt in every direction.
I felt guilt towards my parents, even though they didn't they
supported the reunion.
They didn't.
They didn't try to make me feellike I was doing anything wrong
, but I just felt guilty.
Now I have these other peoplewho I'm calling mom and I'm
calling my siblings or dad.
(15:18):
I just I didn't sit right withmy loyalty.
And then I felt guilt to mybirth family because they all
wanted to to me to come intotheir world And I had all my
guards up 100% walls.
Even though I was trying, ididn't really feel like it was
fair or reasonable, my, mydefensiveness.
(15:38):
So that was the beginning And Ijust started unraveling.
The anxiety, the worry, theneurosis just guy rocketed And I
felt like I needed help.
So that's how I found a bodyand brain center And I began my
healing journey, which I knowwe'll talk about a little bit
more.
But through that journey I kindof unraveled more and more,
(16:01):
because that was now I'm doingmy healing journey, right
alongside with the reunion.
So in real time I was basicallydiscovering my primal wound as
I was getting to know mybiological mother, like it was
in our real time communicationthat these things were coming up
(16:21):
, these hurts, these rejections,fears, shrinking insecurity,
trust, like whoa every.
It was a crazy roller coasterAnd I realized this is the wound
.
It was like I on, i ripped thebandage off and the wound was
just I say that in healing ispassing and oozing And I had to
(16:43):
face it.
So that was my, i guess, comingout of the fog, or whatever you
want to call it.
It was my recognition of thedeep affect of all of this on me
as I was trying to have arelationship with her and
overcome being a 21 year oldneurotic.
So I faced a lot of fear and alot of deep, deep lack of
(17:03):
confidence, lack of self esteem.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, i don't know really too many 20 something
year olds, especially that early, that are super confident.
Anyway, we're all.
I don't know I'm old, but I'mstill young enough to remember
just trying to live on our ownin many instances, trying to
figure out how to have a careeror not have a career, or you
know what are we doing next?
and acclimating ourselves torealities of the real world, i
(17:30):
call it, where you have billsand all of the other stuff going
on, and so that is a lot towork through, and your outlets
have been twofold One is throughwriting and the other is
through your introduction to aset of tools in a toolbox that
came from an organization, acenter called brain and body,
(17:54):
correct, body and brain, bodyand brain.
I'm going to get it wrong everytime, that's all right, we'll
get back to it, right?
So the uh.
So my guess, my point or myquestion to you, danielle, would
be bringing all of that in andsynthesizing and finding an
outlet.
That's a dream for some people.
When we were talking a littlebit prior to this actual
(18:15):
interview, we just kind ofmentioned it was in the most odd
place for you to be and itsfacility was not like blinking
neon lights, correct?
No?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
it was.
It was like behind a gasstation, above a dry cleaner
talked away.
It was my adoptive mother whosaid because I just thought I
need yoga, i, i just thought atthat time of my life I'm losing
it.
I need to find some kind ofinner peace.
Nothing makes me feel peacefulin the world.
The world is scary and crazy.
(18:46):
No relationship sooth me.
Everywhere I look, i'm worriedinsanely about something.
I got to find it inside I, idon't know.
I had that kind of feeling orsense at that time.
Now, by now, i'm about 22 and Isigned it yoga, i need yoga.
My.
My mother, my doctor mothersaid Oh, i saw a place down the
(19:06):
street, i think, where she satat the red light, like in front
of the gas station.
She spotted it up above, so itwas very remote.
It was a huge blessing that Istumbled upon it in that way,
because that was the firstcritical piece of the healing
was doing the practice.
It's an energy.
It's a mind, body, energypractice.
(19:27):
So I needed to learn about myenergy.
I didn't know anything about itand then how out of balance I
was and how to ground myself andall of that.
So just to also speak.
You talked about the writing.
I loved writing from the timethat I was very young and I
wanted to be a writer and I evenwent to college, you know,
taking a lot of creative writingcourses and really wanting to
(19:49):
be a writer.
But I put that all on holdsfrom the moment that I started
my healing journey because Ijust wanted to deep dive into me
.
I didn't have words to express,i just was processing,
processing, processing, and ittook a lot of processing before
I was ready to start writingagain And I feel like the
(20:10):
writing has been more the latterpart of the journey, the
healing journey.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Well, i find it interesting that you had it at
the front end, you had themiddle, which is where you're
healing, and now you have it onthe back end, and part of me has
the sense that the front endwas you prepping yourself for
the journey through the.
You know your creative avenuesAnd your back end is now I know
(20:35):
what I need to articulate andcontinue down my creative path.
Yeah, and so there's a greatMary Mint there.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, i agree, i feel like writing was a lot about
getting in touch with myself,but then after I started the
practice, i was really gettingin touch with my what I would
call my true self in a very deepway And it was fulfilling me
And I just didn't really haveanything to say.
But the more recent part hasbeen now putting the journey
(21:04):
into words and sharing, and so,yeah, it's been a beautiful kind
of full circle to be able tonow share.
It's like, oh, i want to writebecause I want to share my
healing experience.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Well, there is a paragraph I'm going to take
liberties again and share alittle bit of it In your book.
It is on page 82.
For our listeners, it's part ofyour Breaking Free chapter, and
I always like to know the whybehind why people are doing
things.
My why is I wanted to just helpone person start to heal, just
like I was.
I needed to start talking aboutit.
(21:39):
I do speak frequently aboutwhen I was in reunion and
getting overloaded with many ofthe same things you said, right,
regardless of age, and Ithought I was prepared and I
wasn't.
There was nothing that couldhave ever prepared me.
It just wasn't.
And so this podcast.
My why to this podcast is Ineeded to start talking or I was
(22:02):
going to implode.
So when I was reading about youand your why, what I'm like oh,
that's our why, and it goes likethis What I truly wanted in
that moment was to dedicate myentire self to my inner work and
to the path that lay before me,a path of helping other souls
wake up.
And what's interesting is noteven anywhere near where I think
(22:24):
you thought your why was in thebook And I'm like well, there
it is.
That's her why, that, like evenas she was in that moment
working on herself, she knewsomewhere along this journey,
her why would be helping othersbuild a toolbox, because not
everything's for everyone, butgiving them options to heal,
(22:46):
because our journey never ends.
And so let's talk a little bitabout the toolbox.
We've mentioned that it is bodyand brain I got it right this
time and it is a platform.
It's, you know, a practiceyou've been studying and in
study and teaching for quitesome time.
Give us a little bit of senseof what that is and your next
(23:06):
step in that practice foradoptees.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Or yes, so it's.
It's a mind, body, spirit,energy training and it works
also with the brain.
It's based on a program, acurriculum called brain
education.
So it's about educating ourbrain And kind of like what you
talked about earlier in thehealing water chapter, the
reframe, educating our brain.
(23:31):
But that is a long process andjourney and it happens through
the body right.
So we're awakening the sensesof my body, we're awakening the
senses of my energy system,we're awakening the senses of my
mind so that I'm no longercontrolled by it.
But I start to discover myselfat the center, like who is the
(23:54):
controller here?
I feel like I didn't have acenter when I was young and I
found the center and then how tomanage and navigate.
I talk in the book a lot aboutthis mentor that helped me early
on understanding braineducation.
Brain education usually comeswith five steps, but she I
worked with her for about fouryears and she really broke it
(24:16):
down into eight smaller stepsAnd somehow, just where I was at
in my life meeting with myself,meeting with my wound, meeting
everything and the way shetaught it and the way I
practiced it, it had such apowerful effect, those eight
steps, and I held onto thoseeight steps with dear life at
(24:37):
that time And I practiced themevery single moment.
I can share what they are.
I really practiced andintegrated them and got over so
many hills and through so manydark valleys with those eight
steps, to the degree that I'llcome back to what they are, but
to the degree that I then becamea teacher and a trainer and
(24:59):
about 2012, i started teachingmore specialized course to help
people manage their emotion AndI realized I really need to.
I've just been busy practicingthese steps And it's time for me
to share them, really make aclass, build a class around them
, and I saw so many peoplebenefit from it Many, many
(25:22):
people in many cities all overthe country where I worked that
that's why I put them in thesecond part of healing tree.
Healing tree part one, right, isthe memoir and part two is the
teaching aspect, the what I didto help myself with my wounds.
So I really I put them all inthere.
There's eight chapters, one forevery step, and now I'm trying
(25:44):
to, because I put them in there.
I want people who really feellike they might be helpful for
them to have a chance to reallypractice with them, even go
beyond reading about them andreally practice with them, which
is why I've now started acourse called self mastery for
adoptees.
At this point, i'm a body andbrain coach.
I'm teaching online, i'mteaching all kinds of things,
(26:06):
and I wanted to do a specializedcourse for adoptees only so
that I could really like drivethese tools home for the very
specific adoptee things that Iuse them for in myself That make
sense.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It absolutely makes sense And I like that.
I like things that focus onwhere there's a relatable
component to our journey.
Trauma is trauma, and so whenyou are focusing on helping
others put tools in theirtoolbox that is directly
correlated to that traumaexperience, it definitely helps
all of us.
Eight steps Let's go over theeight steps real quickly, at the
(26:41):
highest level, if you don'tmind.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Sure, okay.
So step number one is awaken.
So in the steps sometimes wekind of redefine the word a
little bit, and here the wordawaken means awakening your
senses of your body, your energy, your mind.
Essentially, what it means isbringing your awareness, your
attention back to yourself, offof the person or thing that's
(27:06):
causing you suffering, andcoming back to yourself.
That's where the processingbegins.
We cannot do self mastery byjust pointing and blaming and
complaining and criticizing, andwe all do that, i do that, but
it's realizing.
Wait, how am I going to solvethis?
Okay, come back to myself.
(27:26):
Step number two is simply feel,which comes next right Once I
bring my attention back tomyself feel everything.
So step two is feel, feeleverything, whether it's good,
it's bad, just allow myself tofeel myself.
Step number three is calledwatch, which means here being
able to feel my feelings andidentify them without judging
(27:50):
them.
That's the key of watch.
So, just as a side note, youmentioned about sensitivity,
empathy.
I think a lot of us experiencethat.
So how to practice with allthese overwhelming feelings?
we have to learn how to notjudge by making some distance.
So that's what watching isSeparate from it a little bit
(28:12):
and being able to see it from adistance.
Step number three.
That leads us to step numberfour except, which is, now that
I have some distance, practicingto accept this feeling
completely, whether it's afeeling or a belief, as we
talked about in the healingwater, it could be a habit.
So accepting involvescultivating myself, love, self
(28:35):
forgiveness, ability to embraceeverything I have within, and it
also includes ownership.
Like I have this feeling, it'smine, but it's not me, it's not
who, I am, it's mine.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Let's stop at those four for a minute, because I can
identify with aspects of mypersonality that may struggle
with all four of those, and theone that I would say is that my
largest struggle is embracingsome of who I am.
I believe some of my behaviorsare very hard for me to accept
(29:11):
because of what I haveexperienced in life and then why
I have behaved in those ways Iam open about.
I have anxiety issues.
I didn't realize that's whatthey were for a very long time.
I have a huge fear ofabandonment huge So much so that
I will put up the wall and pushyou away, so that I leave
(29:36):
before you do, and I have atendency to be what people would
consider maybe oversensitive.
I don't think any longer I'moversensitive, but I can
understand where those foursteps, even as a beginning,
could be just so beneficial.
All right, let's go on to thenext four.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And I have all of those two.
I totally understand.
That's why I love working withthe deputies, because we're all
like, yeah, yeah yeah, weunderstand all of them.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, the one that bothers me the most in myself is
the abandonment aspect.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
No, and it can be such a shortcut to so many
triggers.
I have that too And you have to, we have to, i have to.
Okay, let me just start with me.
I have had to really examineand to try to catch it.
So the more I allow myself tofeel and feel it without judging
it and just like, okay, i havethis, but it's not me.
(30:31):
I have this, but it's not me.
So I talked at the beginningabout true self.
It's really recognizing thereis an essence in me and
everything's okay right there.
That essence is just breathingwith the universe.
It's nature, it's just pure,it's kind of like the baby
within us, that very pure love,unconditional love inside.
(30:54):
But that can say that's me, sothese other things are not me.
So it's easy to say.
But it's a lot of practice tofeel that again and again.
And the more I feel it, themore I can be like, okay, that's
not me, i have that.
Then I can embrace more easily.
I can kind of embrace it when Ireally separate from it's not
(31:16):
me And feel that.
So that takes a lot of work.
So I call myself a coachbecause there's a lot of
coaching and support and a lotof like fine details in the
process And I feel like awakeand feel, watch.
Except the first four steps, weneed to practice them over and
over and over and be very, verypatient with ourselves in them.
(31:36):
Then we can move when we'reready to the fifth step, which
is choose.
So choosing a new pattern, likeyou read in the healing water,
choosing a new emotion.
Maybe I want to choose loveright now, or maybe I want to
choose to trust because I'mfeeling unsafe.
Can I choose to trust?
It's not the thing that happensquickly, but we practice and
(31:59):
practice and we awaken the senseof how to be able to access
that, because we really have allthe solutions inside of us.
So we're learning how to go in,connect to them.
Then we can choose.
Then the step after choose isact.
So now we're on step six act.
Follow your choice.
(32:19):
Say, i'm going to go buy ajournal today and every day, at
the end of the day, i'm going towrite down five things that I
loved about myself today Or Ilove about this day.
Small action and it seems sosmall, but actually when we keep
doing that, we're retrainingour brain.
And then the ultimate step eightis create.
We want to be able to createwhatever we want to create.
(32:42):
I want to create a happy lifefor myself.
I want to create myself as aconfident person, as a loving
person.
I keep repeating these steps.
So there's the step rightbefore eight seven evaluate.
Evaluate is when we did all ofthis, but the thing we wanted to
create didn't come out exactlythe way we wanted to create it.
We just go back one step and weevaluate, which means we awaken
(33:08):
again, we feel again, we watchagain, we accept again, we
choose again and we act againfor the goal of what we want to
create.
So it's a lot about being kindto ourselves and recognizing it
as an ongoing, but alsorealizing how good it feels when
we have those victories and howwe grow confidence in our own
(33:30):
mind And when we start to seechanges happen in our lives.
As we do that.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I rarely talk about this but, as you've been talking
, and we've been really diggingin and this is Such a great
conversation for our brains.
I work in software development,so I am constantly analyzing,
thinking, finding problems.
That's my core.
That's been my history.
I now lead a team and I love it.
(33:57):
What is really interesting, andthe connection between what
you're talking about, is how weapproach the things that we
develop for our users.
I work in a part of the industrythat is associated with helping
others.
I don't know if I've ever saidwhat I do, but the point here is
that the people we're helpingare also helping others.
(34:18):
The software we're buildinghelps others, help others If
that makes sense.
And there is a key to everywhere we are looking at it from
a user experience, that what wedo creates repetitive pattern,
so that there's muscle memoryrelative to the brain and your
cognitive development of theactivity.
They don't have to think aboutwhat they're doing.
(34:40):
It's the creation of musclememory And that's what I really
feel the eight steps are.
It is so cool to passconverging.
It is so unbelievably cool.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Hey, it's amazing, our brains are amazing.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
All right, i asked you to do a reading, if you
wouldn't mind, from your book,reading the chapter called Mercy
.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yes, sure I love to.
In order to do that, i feellike I just need to say a couple
of things so people can followme.
The most interesting thingabout my reunion experience is
that my biological motherhappens to be an actress.
Some people know her, somepeople don't.
Her name is Kate Mulgrew, andso when she was pregnant with me
, she was Mary Ryan on Ryan'sHope, and when we met and during
(35:29):
our reunion, she was CaptainJane away on Star Trek Voyager,
and then later during ourreunion, she was red on Orange
is the New Black.
I referenced some of that inthis chapter.
Kate is my biological motherand then her two sons.
My half brothers are Ian andAlec.
Okay, here we go.
Despite our busy lives, kate andI have made genuine efforts to
(35:49):
get together over the years, dueto the pandemic.
2020 was the first year I didnot see her in a long while.
I would often visit her inManhattan.
I loved barreling down theHenry Hudson Parkway during my
45 minute taxi ride from JFK toKate's apartment.
The thrill of holding on fordear life while the cabbie
chatted away in this thick NewYork accent, of watching the
(36:11):
bridges, the river, the medleyof people going about their days
amid tightly packed buildings,all let me feel the strong pulse
of human life.
Sometimes I would even get aneerie feeling as if I had once
lived in this city myself, eventhough I had left New York 10
days after I was born.
I had always felt an oddfamiliarity whenever I returned.
(36:33):
When Kate took me to seePhantom of the Opera, to shop at
Eileen Fisher or to dine atCarmine's.
Our jumping in and out of taxisand bustling through the city
streets made that familiarfeeling come alive.
If I wasn't visiting Kate, shewould come see me wherever I was
working.
We munched on burgers at theCherry Cricket in Denver, were
(36:56):
entranced by the mountain viewat the Opera House in Santa Fe
and sipped margaritas as we rodethe Ferris wheel overlooking
Seattle's City Light.
We had many walks, many laughsand many cozy chats in hotel
rooms sprinkled across America.
For several years I spentThanksgiving with Kate and my
half brothers in California.
(37:17):
Ian would come from SantaBarbara, alec from LA and Kate
would fly in from New York,taking a break from her orange
as the new black filming.
She would rent a beautiful homefor us all, stock the kitchen
with more food than we could eatand prepare us an amazing
holiday meal.
Always we were engaged inconversation.
One year we sat around a gaslitfire pit under the stars
(37:41):
reciting our favorite poetry.
Another year we took turnssharing odd dreams that we had
had and offering possibleinterpretations for them.
But the time that most standsout in my mind was when we went
around the table sharing what wewere grateful for about one
another.
That year, kate's sharing tookme aback.
She expressed her gratitude toIan for the wisdom he embodied,
(38:04):
to Alec for the joy he broughtto her life.
And when she came to me shespoke of mercy.
She said she had learned fromme about mercy and for that she
was grateful.
The word struck me mercy.
It echoed in my mind.
It seemed like such a strongand powerful word and not one I
(38:24):
was expecting her to use whenreferencing me.
It made me think of church.
Wasn't it something you askedthe Lord for?
Was I really worthy anddeserving of such a word?
I'm sure she explained further,but I had not been comfortable
enough to expose the fact that Iwasn't digesting what she was
saying.
When I went back to my room thatevening I was still struggling
(38:46):
to wrap my mind around what shemight have meant.
I decided to Google the wordmercy, compassion or forgiveness
shown towards someone whom itis within one's power to punish
or harm.
That.
Was it Within one's power topunish or harm?
Punish or harm, punish or harm?
(39:06):
Did Kate really feel that itwas within my power to punish or
harm her all these years?
Was she living with thatfeeling?
deep inside That night Irealized something I had not
previously been aware of Kate'spart, kate's heart in all of
this.
Kate's guilt, kate's shame.
(39:27):
All this time I had been busyfeeling my own pain and
examining our relationship frommy own point of view, from the
depth of my own ability toobserve myself.
It had been all about me.
It was about my suffering, mystruggle.
Although I had certainlydeveloped compassion in the face
of being adopted, it was mostlythrough opening, compassion
(39:49):
toward myself, feeling a senseof forgiveness and a letting go.
But I had not yet taken thetime to stand quietly in Kate's
shoes and see through Kate'seyes.
I hadn't had the maturity, thepower, the strength of heart nor
the wisdom to do so.
After that visit to California,i allowed myself to imagine what
(40:11):
Kate's pain might have feltlike.
I could sustain it only forbrief moments at a time.
But when I did, i felt adifferent kind of weight, not my
own weight, but hers, theweight that she must have
carried for my entire life.
I felt sorry, truly sorry, thatI had been unable to recognize
it.
I had been so consumed withmyself, absorbed by my own
(40:35):
suffering.
Even though I had heard Katerecount her heartache time and
again, my ears had been closedand my heart had been numb to it
.
It was maybe a year or two later, after Born with Teeth had been
published and she had finishedher book tour, when Kate said to
me I don't want to talk aboutthe adoption anymore.
I wrote a book, i told my story.
(40:56):
It was hard for me.
I would love it if we couldjust talk about science and
history and the world.
Could we do that?
I understood It was a big askfor a person like me who
processes her feelings bytalking about them endlessly.
Nevertheless, i got it.
I felt the mind behind thatsimple ask and that mind spoke a
(41:18):
thousand words.
I knew then, out of respect forthis woman who gave birth to me
and went through tremendouseffort to get to this very
moment of our lives, i wouldhonor her request.
It was time for me to move intoa new kind of relationship with
her, one where the fact thatshe had given me up for adoption
was no longer the focal pointof our connection.
(41:38):
My choice was to move forward,sharing as much love as I
possibly could, birthing a newstory with Kate.
In this lifetime, of course, iwill continue to process my own
inner world as an adoptee, sincethere is no other option for me
but to do so.
As long as I live and breathe,i need to face my primal wound,
(42:01):
own it, accept it and love it aspart of my journey in this life
.
I do this for my awakening, formy peace and for being able to
authentically support otherswith wounds like mine.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Thank you.
I asked you to read this for acouple of different reasons.
I was very empathetic to thischapter for two reasons.
I never think of myself asmerciful in this conversation
regarding my adoption journey.
When I sit in reflection, irealize we probably are more
(42:35):
merciful as adoptees than werealize, and with mercy
typically comes some grace.
We're giving grace to others.
We also need to give grace toourselves.
At the same time, my heartbroke for you a little bit, and
I felt it was so aspirationalfor you to write it for others
to experience.
(42:56):
Where the door has been closedon the topic.
My door has been closed becausemy birth mother passed away
before I could ask all thequestions.
I don't know how I would feel,though, if I were in the reverse
position.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I admire your strength in honoring her request
and respecting that In thisbook I really wanted to include
all of the really healingnuggets that were huge, pivotal
moments for me in my journey.
I feel like it took me a longtime to get to that feeling that
I just read about.
(43:29):
I feel like if she had perhapssaid that at the beginning or
even, i don't know, a year ormaybe even months prior to, i
might just be sitting herecomplaining about it to somebody
.
But because of the work andbecause of that moment where I
really took time to feel herfeeling and I felt the depth of
(43:54):
her shame, the weight of thatand how complicated it is and
how I think all along ourreunion it caused her to say
many things that I it was hardto understand, but when I saw it
just for a moment, my awarenesspopped out and saw it from that
perspective.
From that perspective I couldaccept.
(44:16):
That didn't mean that I didn'tstill need it.
What I really wanted and neededwas to just kind of keep
processing together.
I feel this, you feel this, ifeel this, you know.
But I realized I need to dothat work on my own And if she
wants to come around againsomeday and reopen the door,
i'll be here, but in themeantime I need to keep doing my
work so that I can keepforgiving myself and forgiving
(44:39):
her and letting it go inside ofme and letting go of my want
from her.
So it took me actually a lot ofthis self-mastery and these
steps and this brain educationand all the processing work that
I did to even get to be able tosay that wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Well, it's very powerful again and I love the
work that you're doing.
Let's circle back so that wecan make sure that you are
sharing out with the listenerswhat you are doing, what is
upcoming how do they connect toyou and what you want to leave
with today.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Sure.
So I am now a body and braincoach.
I'm teaching all kinds ofclasses online.
I'm especially teaching theseeight steps.
I have some classes that arejust movement-oriented and I
have other classes that areemotionally-oriented.
But the big thing that I'mwanting to share with the
community right now is both thebook Healing Tree as well as the
course Self-Mastery forAdopties, which is for Adopties
(45:37):
Only.
I'm only taking 20 Adopties.
We just ran a program.
It's an eight-week program andI'm running another one starting
in July, just because I've metso many people on this journey
and I want to be able to offeran experience with practicing it
and rather than just readingabout it or hearing somebody
speak.
(45:57):
This is the program.
It starts July 11th, it runsfor eight weeks and program I
guess I'm just going to say itdirectly and honestly it has
quite a high value, be a highlydiscounted price.
So I'm really hoping to reachout to as many people as I can
through it, and I think I gaveyou the link for it so people
(46:19):
can find information and theycan also reach out to me on
Facebook or through my websiteif they have more questions
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Well, absolutely So.
In the show notes there will beall of the links to your book,
to your website, to this event,and then, in addition to that,
it'll be all over the socials.
I just want to thank you forthe opportunity to get to know
you, to have met you.
We actually connected at theuntangling our roots, and I do
(46:50):
remember walking up and saying Iwant to read your book, and so
I appreciate again you cominghere and being with our
listeners and offering us thingsthat we can do differently
along this journey, and powerfulto have a toolbox of things
that we can go to.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meand giving me a chance to talk
about this, and I hope that ifanyone stumbles upon this and it
helps them in any way, that'swhat I feel as my purpose, so
thank you for giving me a chanceto share it.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Yeah, thank you again and we look forward to having
you back soon.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
Make sure to rate, review andshare.
Want to join the conversation?
Contact us atwanderingtreeadoptcom.
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, Lisa Ann.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I sign yoga.
I need yoga.
My mother, my doctor mother,said oh, i saw a place on the
street, i think, where she satat the red light, like in front
of the gas station.
She spotted it up above, so itwas very remote.
It was a huge blessing that Istumbled upon it, and now I'll
(00:38):
Welcome to today's show.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I am very pleased to have with me today as our guest
Danielle Goddard.
She is the author of the bookHealing Tree, an adoptee story
about hurting, healing andletting the light shine through.
Welcome, thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
Yeah, it is absolutely apleasure to have you aboard with
(01:01):
us today.
I am really looking forward toour discussion for our listeners
, and we're going to kick it offwith a little bit about you.
If you could give us a you knowkind of an overview of who is
Danielle today.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Okay, sure, so Danielle is a 20 year.
I'm a 20 year body and braincoach, i said.
The interesting thing aboutthat is that I got to this work
and this place in my lifebecause of the healing journey
that I embarked on about 23, 24years ago now, which was also on
(01:41):
the heels of my reunion with mybiological mother.
So all these things are kind ofconnected.
I was born 1977 and adopted 10days later.
My adopted family came down toManhattan where I was born
through the Catholic CharityBureau and they picked me up and
(02:01):
I was raised outside of Bostonin a suburb called Watertown,
massachusetts.
And yeah, they were greatparents, very loving, very.
We had very good connections.
They were very honest and loyaland sincere people.
But I would say the pain of mychildhood was that my adopted
(02:25):
mother, who was really my bestfriend at that time she suffered
from very severe anxiety anddepression.
It was really a mental illnessthat would just unravel at any
time and we were all kind of onour toes with that from the time
that I was about six years old.
So I did a lot of caring forher and I suffered with that and
(02:51):
that was my life until I met mybiological mother at 21, pretty
young, yeah, which is notcommon.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So we're going to note that and your experience
relative to the decision tosearch and how you came to come
to connection.
I found that a littleinteresting.
It was almost like the perfecthappy path that many other
adoptees would love, and youjust had an opportunity to
experience that For ourlisteners.
(03:21):
tell us a little bit about that.
You know you've known all yourlife.
you were adopted.
What was the decision?
When could you come to thedecision?
What was the decision?
How did you proceed?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah.
So my parents were very honestand transparent people.
They raised me telling me thatI was adopted, so I always knew,
and they also told me that whenI was 18, i could search if I
wanted to.
I wanted to look for mybiological parents and I had
that somewhere in my mind.
(03:52):
I was so consumed with theworld of well, my dramatic
teenage years, plus myconnection with my parents and
also my mother's mental,emotional struggle, that I
really tried so hard to help herwith that.
It was in my mind, but when Iturned 18, i just was not
(04:15):
anywhere near doing that.
And then it wasn't until acouple of years later I
transferred from the Universityof New Hampshire to the
University of Iowa and I justfelt a lot more stabilized in my
life.
I felt happier in my school andI was meeting lots of people
and they were always asking oh,where are you from?
(04:36):
You know what's your heritage?
And they were guessing becauseI didn't know the answer And I
just started to feel like youknow what?
I?
just I want to know.
I don't know the answer andeverybody else knows.
Why can't I know?
I have a lot of adopted friends.
I had my younger sister who wasadopted but that she was really
the only other adoptee in mylife.
(04:57):
So it was a curiosity thing andI thought I was late.
Right, i was behind schedulebecause I could search when I
was 18, but no 20, and I haven'teven started yet.
That's what I was thinking atthat time.
So I thought maybe if I couldjust find some pictures and the
(05:17):
heritage where does my bloodline come from Then that will
satisfy my curiosity.
So, as you said, it was kind ofsmooth and easy in comparison
probably to many other stories.
I don't know everybody's story.
I thought mine was going to belong and are five years, 10
(05:40):
years, like knocking onsomeone's door.
I thought it was going to bereally, really complicated.
But I just wrote a letter tothe Catholic Charity Bureau
where I was adopted through.
They wrote back saying my fileswere burned in a fire.
They told me to contact thestate of New York.
I did.
They wrote back.
(06:01):
This was kind of over theperiod of what Six, seven months
.
They wrote back and said youwere born in New York but you
were adopted throughMassachusetts courts.
Then they gave me this brochurebut they were like we can't
help you, but they gave me thisbrochure from this International
Sound Ex Reunion RegistryCompany.
They said if you or one of yourbirth parents become members,
(06:23):
this organization will match you.
That's what happened, literallytwo weeks later after I filled
it out and sent it in.
I got a match, they made a match.
It happened so fast I think forme, even though it was easy and
smooth, it was overwhelmingbecause it was that easy.
It was like a gentle knock onthe door and the door went
(06:45):
flying open and I kind of fellon my face.
It felt like that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's a great analogy.
I also like the hope that youmight be giving to others that
it can happen in a smooth way.
Maybe it doesn't.
We've heard stories bothdirections.
I like the positivity of it canhappen A little bit of hope.
(07:09):
Nothing's wrong with hope atall.
You've mentioned a couple ofdifferent things that I would
like us to maybe dig in a littlebit here relative to your
upbringing.
As we know, especially now intoday's society and areas of
thought that we're going through, mental health is one of the
(07:31):
key marks that we're focusing onand more cognizant of, to help
people.
In your book you talk a littlebit about the mental health
aspects of your adopted motherand what that was like for you
as a child.
I'm going to reference the pagekind of one of the sections
(07:53):
that ran home for me in yourbook.
It is well, i lost it.
Of course I would lose it.
Sorry listeners, i lost it Andnow you're going to hear me
going through the book.
It was really the framingaround your thought process as
it relates to your adoptedmother and how you ended up with
(08:17):
this negative kind of mentalityto that.
Do you want to speak to that alittle bit more?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, sure.
So she started to really havethese episodes from the time
that I was about six years oldAnd I really I feel like it
really shook my sense of safetyand stability And even though I
loved her so much, but that thatthat that safety of that love
would disappear whenever shewould kind of unravel.
(08:46):
I really grew up first of alltrying to take care of her,
doing everything I could to makeher happy, make her smile, but
also meanwhile I was developingvery extreme version of worry
(09:07):
and anxiety, to the degree ofneuroses and hypochondria.
I mean, all my teachers wouldbe like Daniels a worry, war,
you know she has.
Everyone knew this about me Andthat just wore on me as I grew
older and it just morphed intoan extreme fear.
(09:30):
And so when I got, when Istarted my healing journey, i
started really looking inward.
I first examined my childhoodand the feelings that I found
there were.
Well, there's this fear and thesuccessive habit of worry, and
then there's this deep sadnessAnd I keep looping back around
(09:53):
in my mind like, oh, my motherwas sick And so it was hard and
I had to take care of her, andit was really sad and I became
really anxious And it was justthis loop, it was like a belief.
So the chapter you're referringto is when I did this course
right, and I did this healingwater meditation, where I was
(10:17):
making this healing water for mymother.
So I was meditating deeply onmy journey with her and seeing
so clearly, just in that 40minutes of sitting there staring
at a glass of water, i waswatching my mind loop around on
this track And at some moment Ithink, in examining it so
(10:37):
honestly and clearly, and alsomy desperate, deep, deep, deep
wish for healing, first andforemost for my mother, but also
feeling the compassion formyself suddenly like wow, i had
this sadness in me since I wasvery little.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
This has been an agonizing track in my brain,
something open I think, becauseI was really wishing so much for
healing in that meditation andthat healing water meditation
that something shifted And Iwrite about it there, how the
track shifted Yeah Well, i thinka lot of people can resonate
(11:18):
with the negative pattern, andso the way that you have
described it I was immediatelyin the thought process of oh,
i've heard this, i've thoughtthis, i've probably said this,
and you kind of capture it withmy mother was mentally ill.
It was so painful for me.
That's why I'm depressed.
Life is hard, and I could say mymantra in the similar context
(11:42):
is my mother wasn't veryemotionally loving.
I constantly was looking forher approval.
We had a difficult relationship.
All of my relationships seem tobe difficult.
Why is life so hard?
And so I loved the reframing ofit through this process and
your healing process, which wewill dive into more about what
(12:03):
that is, what it's really named,where you then change the
mantra.
Do you mind if I read what themantra was and how you've
reframed it?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, please do.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You change from a negative pattern into one that
is a little healthier, and itgoes.
My mother was mentally ill.
It was so painful for me.
I did my best to help her.
Through helping her, icultivated a healer's mind
within me.
It was her suffering that ledto my soul's path in this
(12:34):
lifetime.
I am so grateful for theperfection of my journey And I'm
not there.
I love that you were able toget there through this healing
process, Your tools we'll talkabout the toolbox as we move
forward, but I started thinkingabout it and I'm really going to
try to reframe even myperception of my mother and how
(12:57):
that all came about.
Maybe she's made me a moreloving person at the end of it.
Right, i'm very empathetic, bythe way, like I can cry on a
dime.
I don't know about you, butsomeone will walk in and they'll
be crying and all of a suddenI'll start crying because
they're crying And I just wantto take care of them and nurture
them And I loved that.
That, by the way, for listenerswhen you get this book, because
(13:19):
I'm going to highly recommendpage 88.
And you're right, the chapteris called Healing Water.
So very, very good.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout your reunion, because your
reunion kind of some of thethings you were feeling, your
disconnection, i think, fromyourself really led you into not
only this book, really your whylife's path journey.
(13:41):
So you want to talk a littlebit more about that kind of
bring us into some of your upsand downs of your reunion
journey and your disconnection.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, so that happened when I was 21 years old
.
So 25 years ago was my reunionand I have been in reunion since
then.
And you know, think about this,this young, worried, anxious,
fearful, neurotic girl who'shaving a hard time just managing
(14:14):
her own thoughts and emotionsas it is, who's having a hard
time accepting the world as itis because it scares her.
That's the kind of conditionthat I was in.
And then I knock on the door,go spline open, i meet my
biological mother and somehow Itwas amazingly hopeful that it
(14:34):
was so smooth for me.
But emotionally it caused ahuge overwhelm that I didn't
expect, i didn't anticipate,although I hadn't really wanted
to have a relationship with mybiological mother or father
because prior to finding them,because I was so close with my
parents and that felt like apoint of conflict for me.
(14:56):
So it opened this massive doorof conflict.
I felt guilt in every direction.
I felt guilt towards my parents, even though they didn't they
supported the reunion.
They didn't.
They didn't try to make me feellike I was doing anything wrong
, but I just felt guilty.
Now I have these other peoplewho I'm calling mom and I'm
calling my siblings or dad.
(15:18):
I just I didn't sit right withmy loyalty.
And then I felt guilt to mybirth family because they all
wanted to to me to come intotheir world And I had all my
guards up 100% walls.
Even though I was trying, ididn't really feel like it was
fair or reasonable, my, mydefensiveness.
(15:38):
So that was the beginning And Ijust started unraveling.
The anxiety, the worry, theneurosis just guy rocketed And I
felt like I needed help.
So that's how I found a bodyand brain center And I began my
healing journey, which I knowwe'll talk about a little bit
more.
But through that journey I kindof unraveled more and more,
(16:01):
because that was now I'm doingmy healing journey, right
alongside with the reunion.
So in real time I was basicallydiscovering my primal wound as
I was getting to know mybiological mother, like it was
in our real time communicationthat these things were coming up
(16:21):
, these hurts, these rejections,fears, shrinking insecurity,
trust, like whoa every.
It was a crazy roller coasterAnd I realized this is the wound
.
It was like I on, i ripped thebandage off and the wound was
just I say that in healing ispassing and oozing And I had to
(16:43):
face it.
So that was my, i guess, comingout of the fog, or whatever you
want to call it.
It was my recognition of thedeep affect of all of this on me
as I was trying to have arelationship with her and
overcome being a 21 year oldneurotic.
So I faced a lot of fear and alot of deep, deep lack of
(17:03):
confidence, lack of self esteem.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, i don't know really too many 20 something
year olds, especially that early, that are super confident.
Anyway, we're all.
I don't know I'm old, but I'mstill young enough to remember
just trying to live on our ownin many instances, trying to
figure out how to have a careeror not have a career, or you
know what are we doing next?
and acclimating ourselves torealities of the real world, i
(17:30):
call it, where you have billsand all of the other stuff going
on, and so that is a lot towork through, and your outlets
have been twofold One is throughwriting and the other is
through your introduction to aset of tools in a toolbox that
came from an organization, acenter called brain and body,
(17:54):
correct, body and brain, bodyand brain.
I'm going to get it wrong everytime, that's all right, we'll
get back to it, right?
So the uh.
So my guess, my point or myquestion to you, danielle, would
be bringing all of that in andsynthesizing and finding an
outlet.
That's a dream for some people.
When we were talking a littlebit prior to this actual
(18:15):
interview, we just kind ofmentioned it was in the most odd
place for you to be and itsfacility was not like blinking
neon lights, correct?
No?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
it was.
It was like behind a gasstation, above a dry cleaner
talked away.
It was my adoptive mother whosaid because I just thought I
need yoga, i, i just thought atthat time of my life I'm losing
it.
I need to find some kind ofinner peace.
Nothing makes me feel peacefulin the world.
The world is scary and crazy.
(18:46):
No relationship sooth me.
Everywhere I look, i'm worriedinsanely about something.
I got to find it inside I, idon't know.
I had that kind of feeling orsense at that time.
Now, by now, i'm about 22 and Isigned it yoga, i need yoga.
My.
My mother, my doctor mothersaid Oh, i saw a place down the
(19:06):
street, i think, where she satat the red light, like in front
of the gas station.
She spotted it up above, so itwas very remote.
It was a huge blessing that Istumbled upon it in that way,
because that was the firstcritical piece of the healing
was doing the practice.
It's an energy.
It's a mind, body, energypractice.
(19:27):
So I needed to learn about myenergy.
I didn't know anything about itand then how out of balance I
was and how to ground myself andall of that.
So just to also speak.
You talked about the writing.
I loved writing from the timethat I was very young and I
wanted to be a writer and I evenwent to college, you know,
taking a lot of creative writingcourses and really wanting to
(19:49):
be a writer.
But I put that all on holdsfrom the moment that I started
my healing journey because Ijust wanted to deep dive into me
.
I didn't have words to express,i just was processing,
processing, processing, and ittook a lot of processing before
I was ready to start writingagain And I feel like the
(20:10):
writing has been more the latterpart of the journey, the
healing journey.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Well, i find it interesting that you had it at
the front end, you had themiddle, which is where you're
healing, and now you have it onthe back end, and part of me has
the sense that the front endwas you prepping yourself for
the journey through the.
You know your creative avenuesAnd your back end is now I know
(20:35):
what I need to articulate andcontinue down my creative path.
Yeah, and so there's a greatMary Mint there.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, i agree, i feel like writing was a lot about
getting in touch with myself,but then after I started the
practice, i was really gettingin touch with my what I would
call my true self in a very deepway And it was fulfilling me
And I just didn't really haveanything to say.
But the more recent part hasbeen now putting the journey
(21:04):
into words and sharing, and so,yeah, it's been a beautiful kind
of full circle to be able tonow share.
It's like, oh, i want to writebecause I want to share my
healing experience.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Well, there is a paragraph I'm going to take
liberties again and share alittle bit of it In your book.
It is on page 82.
For our listeners, it's part ofyour Breaking Free chapter, and
I always like to know the whybehind why people are doing
things.
My why is I wanted to just helpone person start to heal, just
like I was.
I needed to start talking aboutit.
(21:39):
I do speak frequently aboutwhen I was in reunion and
getting overloaded with many ofthe same things you said, right,
regardless of age, and Ithought I was prepared and I
wasn't.
There was nothing that couldhave ever prepared me.
It just wasn't.
And so this podcast.
My why to this podcast is Ineeded to start talking or I was
(22:02):
going to implode.
So when I was reading about youand your why, what I'm like oh,
that's our why, and it goes likethis What I truly wanted in
that moment was to dedicate myentire self to my inner work and
to the path that lay before me,a path of helping other souls
wake up.
And what's interesting is noteven anywhere near where I think
(22:24):
you thought your why was in thebook And I'm like well, there
it is.
That's her why, that, like evenas she was in that moment
working on herself, she knewsomewhere along this journey,
her why would be helping othersbuild a toolbox, because not
everything's for everyone, butgiving them options to heal,
(22:46):
because our journey never ends.
And so let's talk a little bitabout the toolbox.
We've mentioned that it is bodyand brain I got it right this
time and it is a platform.
It's, you know, a practiceyou've been studying and in
study and teaching for quitesome time.
Give us a little bit of senseof what that is and your next
(23:06):
step in that practice foradoptees.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Or yes, so it's.
It's a mind, body, spirit,energy training and it works
also with the brain.
It's based on a program, acurriculum called brain
education.
So it's about educating ourbrain And kind of like what you
talked about earlier in thehealing water chapter, the
reframe, educating our brain.
(23:31):
But that is a long process andjourney and it happens through
the body right.
So we're awakening the sensesof my body, we're awakening the
senses of my energy system,we're awakening the senses of my
mind so that I'm no longercontrolled by it.
But I start to discover myselfat the center, like who is the
(23:54):
controller here?
I feel like I didn't have acenter when I was young and I
found the center and then how tomanage and navigate.
I talk in the book a lot aboutthis mentor that helped me early
on understanding braineducation.
Brain education usually comeswith five steps, but she I
worked with her for about fouryears and she really broke it
(24:16):
down into eight smaller stepsAnd somehow, just where I was at
in my life meeting with myself,meeting with my wound, meeting
everything and the way shetaught it and the way I
practiced it, it had such apowerful effect, those eight
steps, and I held onto thoseeight steps with dear life at
(24:37):
that time And I practiced themevery single moment.
I can share what they are.
I really practiced andintegrated them and got over so
many hills and through so manydark valleys with those eight
steps, to the degree that I'llcome back to what they are, but
to the degree that I then becamea teacher and a trainer and
(24:59):
about 2012, i started teachingmore specialized course to help
people manage their emotion AndI realized I really need to.
I've just been busy practicingthese steps And it's time for me
to share them, really make aclass, build a class around them
, and I saw so many peoplebenefit from it Many, many
(25:22):
people in many cities all overthe country where I worked that
that's why I put them in thesecond part of healing tree.
Healing tree part one, right, isthe memoir and part two is the
teaching aspect, the what I didto help myself with my wounds.
So I really I put them all inthere.
There's eight chapters, one forevery step, and now I'm trying
(25:44):
to, because I put them in there.
I want people who really feellike they might be helpful for
them to have a chance to reallypractice with them, even go
beyond reading about them andreally practice with them, which
is why I've now started acourse called self mastery for
adoptees.
At this point, i'm a body andbrain coach.
I'm teaching online, i'mteaching all kinds of things,
(26:06):
and I wanted to do a specializedcourse for adoptees only so
that I could really like drivethese tools home for the very
specific adoptee things that Iuse them for in myself That make
sense.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It absolutely makes sense And I like that.
I like things that focus onwhere there's a relatable
component to our journey.
Trauma is trauma, and so whenyou are focusing on helping
others put tools in theirtoolbox that is directly
correlated to that traumaexperience, it definitely helps
all of us.
Eight steps Let's go over theeight steps real quickly, at the
(26:41):
highest level, if you don'tmind.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Sure, okay.
So step number one is awaken.
So in the steps sometimes wekind of redefine the word a
little bit, and here the wordawaken means awakening your
senses of your body, your energy, your mind.
Essentially, what it means isbringing your awareness, your
attention back to yourself, offof the person or thing that's
(27:06):
causing you suffering, andcoming back to yourself.
That's where the processingbegins.
We cannot do self mastery byjust pointing and blaming and
complaining and criticizing, andwe all do that, i do that, but
it's realizing.
Wait, how am I going to solvethis?
Okay, come back to myself.
(27:26):
Step number two is simply feel,which comes next right Once I
bring my attention back tomyself feel everything.
So step two is feel, feeleverything, whether it's good,
it's bad, just allow myself tofeel myself.
Step number three is calledwatch, which means here being
able to feel my feelings andidentify them without judging
(27:50):
them.
That's the key of watch.
So, just as a side note, youmentioned about sensitivity,
empathy.
I think a lot of us experiencethat.
So how to practice with allthese overwhelming feelings?
we have to learn how to notjudge by making some distance.
So that's what watching isSeparate from it a little bit
(28:12):
and being able to see it from adistance.
Step number three.
That leads us to step numberfour except, which is, now that
I have some distance, practicingto accept this feeling
completely, whether it's afeeling or a belief, as we
talked about in the healingwater, it could be a habit.
So accepting involvescultivating myself, love, self
(28:35):
forgiveness, ability to embraceeverything I have within, and it
also includes ownership.
Like I have this feeling, it'smine, but it's not me, it's not
who, I am, it's mine.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Let's stop at those four for a minute, because I can
identify with aspects of mypersonality that may struggle
with all four of those, and theone that I would say is that my
largest struggle is embracingsome of who I am.
I believe some of my behaviorsare very hard for me to accept
(29:11):
because of what I haveexperienced in life and then why
I have behaved in those ways Iam open about.
I have anxiety issues.
I didn't realize that's whatthey were for a very long time.
I have a huge fear ofabandonment huge So much so that
I will put up the wall and pushyou away, so that I leave
(29:36):
before you do, and I have atendency to be what people would
consider maybe oversensitive.
I don't think any longer I'moversensitive, but I can
understand where those foursteps, even as a beginning,
could be just so beneficial.
All right, let's go on to thenext four.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And I have all of those two.
I totally understand.
That's why I love working withthe deputies, because we're all
like, yeah, yeah yeah, weunderstand all of them.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, the one that bothers me the most in myself is
the abandonment aspect.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
No, and it can be such a shortcut to so many
triggers.
I have that too And you have to, we have to, i have to.
Okay, let me just start with me.
I have had to really examineand to try to catch it.
So the more I allow myself tofeel and feel it without judging
it and just like, okay, i havethis, but it's not me.
(30:31):
I have this, but it's not me.
So I talked at the beginningabout true self.
It's really recognizing thereis an essence in me and
everything's okay right there.
That essence is just breathingwith the universe.
It's nature, it's just pure,it's kind of like the baby
within us, that very pure love,unconditional love inside.
(30:54):
But that can say that's me, sothese other things are not me.
So it's easy to say.
But it's a lot of practice tofeel that again and again.
And the more I feel it, themore I can be like, okay, that's
not me, i have that.
Then I can embrace more easily.
I can kind of embrace it when Ireally separate from it's not
(31:16):
me And feel that.
So that takes a lot of work.
So I call myself a coachbecause there's a lot of
coaching and support and a lotof like fine details in the
process And I feel like awakeand feel, watch.
Except the first four steps, weneed to practice them over and
over and over and be very, verypatient with ourselves in them.
(31:36):
Then we can move when we'reready to the fifth step, which
is choose.
So choosing a new pattern, likeyou read in the healing water,
choosing a new emotion.
Maybe I want to choose loveright now, or maybe I want to
choose to trust because I'mfeeling unsafe.
Can I choose to trust?
It's not the thing that happensquickly, but we practice and
(31:59):
practice and we awaken the senseof how to be able to access
that, because we really have allthe solutions inside of us.
So we're learning how to go in,connect to them.
Then we can choose.
Then the step after choose isact.
So now we're on step six act.
Follow your choice.
(32:19):
Say, i'm going to go buy ajournal today and every day, at
the end of the day, i'm going towrite down five things that I
loved about myself today Or Ilove about this day.
Small action and it seems sosmall, but actually when we keep
doing that, we're retrainingour brain.
And then the ultimate step eightis create.
We want to be able to createwhatever we want to create.
(32:42):
I want to create a happy lifefor myself.
I want to create myself as aconfident person, as a loving
person.
I keep repeating these steps.
So there's the step rightbefore eight seven evaluate.
Evaluate is when we did all ofthis, but the thing we wanted to
create didn't come out exactlythe way we wanted to create it.
We just go back one step and weevaluate, which means we awaken
(33:08):
again, we feel again, we watchagain, we accept again, we
choose again and we act againfor the goal of what we want to
create.
So it's a lot about being kindto ourselves and recognizing it
as an ongoing, but alsorealizing how good it feels when
we have those victories and howwe grow confidence in our own
(33:30):
mind And when we start to seechanges happen in our lives.
As we do that.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I rarely talk about this but, as you've been talking
, and we've been really diggingin and this is Such a great
conversation for our brains.
I work in software development,so I am constantly analyzing,
thinking, finding problems.
That's my core.
That's been my history.
I now lead a team and I love it.
(33:57):
What is really interesting, andthe connection between what
you're talking about, is how weapproach the things that we
develop for our users.
I work in a part of the industrythat is associated with helping
others.
I don't know if I've ever saidwhat I do, but the point here is
that the people we're helpingare also helping others.
(34:18):
The software we're buildinghelps others, help others If
that makes sense.
And there is a key to everywhere we are looking at it from
a user experience, that what wedo creates repetitive pattern,
so that there's muscle memoryrelative to the brain and your
cognitive development of theactivity.
They don't have to think aboutwhat they're doing.
(34:40):
It's the creation of musclememory And that's what I really
feel the eight steps are.
It is so cool to passconverging.
It is so unbelievably cool.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Hey, it's amazing, our brains are amazing.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
All right, i asked you to do a reading, if you
wouldn't mind, from your book,reading the chapter called Mercy
.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yes, sure I love to.
In order to do that, i feellike I just need to say a couple
of things so people can followme.
The most interesting thingabout my reunion experience is
that my biological motherhappens to be an actress.
Some people know her, somepeople don't.
Her name is Kate Mulgrew, andso when she was pregnant with me
, she was Mary Ryan on Ryan'sHope, and when we met and during
(35:29):
our reunion, she was CaptainJane away on Star Trek Voyager,
and then later during ourreunion, she was red on Orange
is the New Black.
I referenced some of that inthis chapter.
Kate is my biological motherand then her two sons.
My half brothers are Ian andAlec.
Okay, here we go.
Despite our busy lives, kate andI have made genuine efforts to
(35:49):
get together over the years, dueto the pandemic.
2020 was the first year I didnot see her in a long while.
I would often visit her inManhattan.
I loved barreling down theHenry Hudson Parkway during my
45 minute taxi ride from JFK toKate's apartment.
The thrill of holding on fordear life while the cabbie
chatted away in this thick NewYork accent, of watching the
(36:11):
bridges, the river, the medleyof people going about their days
amid tightly packed buildings,all let me feel the strong pulse
of human life.
Sometimes I would even get aneerie feeling as if I had once
lived in this city myself, eventhough I had left New York 10
days after I was born.
I had always felt an oddfamiliarity whenever I returned.
(36:33):
When Kate took me to seePhantom of the Opera, to shop at
Eileen Fisher or to dine atCarmine's.
Our jumping in and out of taxisand bustling through the city
streets made that familiarfeeling come alive.
If I wasn't visiting Kate, shewould come see me wherever I was
working.
We munched on burgers at theCherry Cricket in Denver, were
(36:56):
entranced by the mountain viewat the Opera House in Santa Fe
and sipped margaritas as we rodethe Ferris wheel overlooking
Seattle's City Light.
We had many walks, many laughsand many cozy chats in hotel
rooms sprinkled across America.
For several years I spentThanksgiving with Kate and my
half brothers in California.
(37:17):
Ian would come from SantaBarbara, alec from LA and Kate
would fly in from New York,taking a break from her orange
as the new black filming.
She would rent a beautiful homefor us all, stock the kitchen
with more food than we could eatand prepare us an amazing
holiday meal.
Always we were engaged inconversation.
One year we sat around a gaslitfire pit under the stars
(37:41):
reciting our favorite poetry.
Another year we took turnssharing odd dreams that we had
had and offering possibleinterpretations for them.
But the time that most standsout in my mind was when we went
around the table sharing what wewere grateful for about one
another.
That year, kate's sharing tookme aback.
She expressed her gratitude toIan for the wisdom he embodied,
(38:04):
to Alec for the joy he broughtto her life.
And when she came to me shespoke of mercy.
She said she had learned fromme about mercy and for that she
was grateful.
The word struck me mercy.
It echoed in my mind.
It seemed like such a strongand powerful word and not one I
(38:24):
was expecting her to use whenreferencing me.
It made me think of church.
Wasn't it something you askedthe Lord for?
Was I really worthy anddeserving of such a word?
I'm sure she explained further,but I had not been comfortable
enough to expose the fact that Iwasn't digesting what she was
saying.
When I went back to my room thatevening I was still struggling
(38:46):
to wrap my mind around what shemight have meant.
I decided to Google the wordmercy, compassion or forgiveness
shown towards someone whom itis within one's power to punish
or harm.
That.
Was it Within one's power topunish or harm?
Punish or harm, punish or harm?
(39:06):
Did Kate really feel that itwas within my power to punish or
harm her all these years?
Was she living with thatfeeling?
deep inside That night Irealized something I had not
previously been aware of Kate'spart, kate's heart in all of
this.
Kate's guilt, kate's shame.
(39:27):
All this time I had been busyfeeling my own pain and
examining our relationship frommy own point of view, from the
depth of my own ability toobserve myself.
It had been all about me.
It was about my suffering, mystruggle.
Although I had certainlydeveloped compassion in the face
of being adopted, it was mostlythrough opening, compassion
(39:49):
toward myself, feeling a senseof forgiveness and a letting go.
But I had not yet taken thetime to stand quietly in Kate's
shoes and see through Kate'seyes.
I hadn't had the maturity, thepower, the strength of heart nor
the wisdom to do so.
After that visit to California,i allowed myself to imagine what
(40:11):
Kate's pain might have feltlike.
I could sustain it only forbrief moments at a time.
But when I did, i felt adifferent kind of weight, not my
own weight, but hers, theweight that she must have
carried for my entire life.
I felt sorry, truly sorry, thatI had been unable to recognize
it.
I had been so consumed withmyself, absorbed by my own
(40:35):
suffering.
Even though I had heard Katerecount her heartache time and
again, my ears had been closedand my heart had been numb to it
.
It was maybe a year or two later, after Born with Teeth had been
published and she had finishedher book tour, when Kate said to
me I don't want to talk aboutthe adoption anymore.
I wrote a book, i told my story.
(40:56):
It was hard for me.
I would love it if we couldjust talk about science and
history and the world.
Could we do that?
I understood It was a big askfor a person like me who
processes her feelings bytalking about them endlessly.
Nevertheless, i got it.
I felt the mind behind thatsimple ask and that mind spoke a
(41:18):
thousand words.
I knew then, out of respect forthis woman who gave birth to me
and went through tremendouseffort to get to this very
moment of our lives, i wouldhonor her request.
It was time for me to move intoa new kind of relationship with
her, one where the fact thatshe had given me up for adoption
was no longer the focal pointof our connection.
(41:38):
My choice was to move forward,sharing as much love as I
possibly could, birthing a newstory with Kate.
In this lifetime, of course, iwill continue to process my own
inner world as an adoptee, sincethere is no other option for me
but to do so.
As long as I live and breathe,i need to face my primal wound,
(42:01):
own it, accept it and love it aspart of my journey in this life
.
I do this for my awakening, formy peace and for being able to
authentically support otherswith wounds like mine.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Thank you.
I asked you to read this for acouple of different reasons.
I was very empathetic to thischapter for two reasons.
I never think of myself asmerciful in this conversation
regarding my adoption journey.
When I sit in reflection, irealize we probably are more
(42:35):
merciful as adoptees than werealize, and with mercy
typically comes some grace.
We're giving grace to others.
We also need to give grace toourselves.
At the same time, my heartbroke for you a little bit, and
I felt it was so aspirationalfor you to write it for others
to experience.
(42:56):
Where the door has been closedon the topic.
My door has been closed becausemy birth mother passed away
before I could ask all thequestions.
I don't know how I would feel,though, if I were in the reverse
position.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I admire your strength in honoring her request
and respecting that In thisbook I really wanted to include
all of the really healingnuggets that were huge, pivotal
moments for me in my journey.
I feel like it took me a longtime to get to that feeling that
I just read about.
(43:29):
I feel like if she had perhapssaid that at the beginning or
even, i don't know, a year ormaybe even months prior to, i
might just be sitting herecomplaining about it to somebody
.
But because of the work andbecause of that moment where I
really took time to feel herfeeling and I felt the depth of
(43:54):
her shame, the weight of thatand how complicated it is and
how I think all along ourreunion it caused her to say
many things that I it was hardto understand, but when I saw it
just for a moment, my awarenesspopped out and saw it from that
perspective.
From that perspective I couldaccept.
(44:16):
That didn't mean that I didn'tstill need it.
What I really wanted and neededwas to just kind of keep
processing together.
I feel this, you feel this, ifeel this, you know.
But I realized I need to dothat work on my own And if she
wants to come around againsomeday and reopen the door,
i'll be here, but in themeantime I need to keep doing my
work so that I can keepforgiving myself and forgiving
(44:39):
her and letting it go inside ofme and letting go of my want
from her.
So it took me actually a lot ofthis self-mastery and these
steps and this brain educationand all the processing work that
I did to even get to be able tosay that wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Well, it's very powerful again and I love the
work that you're doing.
Let's circle back so that wecan make sure that you are
sharing out with the listenerswhat you are doing, what is
upcoming how do they connect toyou and what you want to leave
with today.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Sure.
So I am now a body and braincoach.
I'm teaching all kinds ofclasses online.
I'm especially teaching theseeight steps.
I have some classes that arejust movement-oriented and I
have other classes that areemotionally-oriented.
But the big thing that I'mwanting to share with the
community right now is both thebook Healing Tree as well as the
course Self-Mastery forAdopties, which is for Adopties
(45:37):
Only.
I'm only taking 20 Adopties.
We just ran a program.
It's an eight-week program andI'm running another one starting
in July, just because I've metso many people on this journey
and I want to be able to offeran experience with practicing it
and rather than just readingabout it or hearing somebody
speak.
(45:57):
This is the program.
It starts July 11th, it runsfor eight weeks and program I
guess I'm just going to say itdirectly and honestly it has
quite a high value, be a highlydiscounted price.
So I'm really hoping to reachout to as many people as I can
through it, and I think I gaveyou the link for it so people
(46:19):
can find information and theycan also reach out to me on
Facebook or through my websiteif they have more questions
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Well, absolutely So.
In the show notes there will beall of the links to your book,
to your website, to this event,and then, in addition to that,
it'll be all over the socials.
I just want to thank you forthe opportunity to get to know
you, to have met you.
We actually connected at theuntangling our roots, and I do
(46:50):
remember walking up and saying Iwant to read your book, and so
I appreciate again you cominghere and being with our
listeners and offering us thingsthat we can do differently
along this journey, and powerfulto have a toolbox of things
that we can go to.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meand giving me a chance to talk
about this, and I hope that ifanyone stumbles upon this and it
helps them in any way, that'swhat I feel as my purpose, so
thank you for giving me a chanceto share it.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Yeah, thank you again and we look forward to having
you back soon.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
Make sure to rate, review andshare.
Want to join the conversation?
Contact us atwanderingtreeadoptcom.
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