August 2, 2021 • 39 mins
In Episode No. 2 of Watt's the Word, we chat with Nathan Ward the Renewable Energy Manager of the Crestview Group.
We discuss his electrical journey, learn a little bit about solar installations and talk about the future of solar PV power.
Connect with Nathan on LinkedIn
Connect with us on Instagram or Facebook - @wattsthewordpodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Cox (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Watt's the Word, a podcast
linking together electricaltrade and industry members. I'm
Jason Cox, and together withZack Hartle, we're having
relevant and informativeconversations with members of
our industry.
Zack Hartle (00:15):
With us here today as a guest who really couldn't
be more passionate about solarPV energy. This is Nathan ward.
He's with the Crestview group.
He's the Renewable EnergyManager here in Calgary. He's
got a really diverse electricalbackground, commercial design,
instructing, actually, and thenfinally now finding his home in
the renewable energy sector. Sowelcome, Nathan.
Nathan Ward (00:37):
Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.
Zack Hartle (00:39):
Absolutely. So with the show, Nathan, you know, it's
a little bit of two parts. Thefirst part we want to know, you
know, tell us about yourselfyour background, what do you
currently do? Why you're in theelectrical industry, and
passionate, and then we're goingto have you, you know, talk
about solar PV energy a littlebit, and we have some questions
for you on that. So, I mean,take it away, and let us know
(01:01):
how you got to where you aretoday, and why you're what still
drives you in the industry.
Nathan Ward (01:06):
Sure, I'll try and be quick. So I first thought
about electricity. I think itwas around Christmas, when I was
pretty young. My sister wasplugging in the tree, and she
grabbed both prongs, plugged inthe lights, and then started to
cry. So that was my firstexperience with electrical
(01:29):
didn't think about it much untillater. Then started working in
different trades, gettingexposed to different
construction, framing, drywall,plumbing, mechanical, concrete,
all kinds of things, and thenstarted helping out with a
little bit of electrical. Andlike, oh, I don't know anything
(01:51):
about that. Let's see where thatgoes. So I started an
apprenticeship with pyramidCorporation, worked in their
panel shop was great place tospend the first year and a half
in the in the trade on workingunder a roof in the hot summer
in a building better than on aroof with someone like now and
solar. But we'll get there. Sodid that for the first year and
(02:15):
a half in the trade. Then Iworked for Crestview electric
doing commercial installations.
That was fantastic. I workedwith Crestview until I got my
journeyman ticket. After after Igot my ticket, my uncle who had
recommended me to apply apyramid told me that I should
come work for this engineering,he was a firm he was working
(02:35):
for. Because they want someonewith field experience who
understands how these electricalcomponents go together is
basically the wording he used.
So he asked me to come along andthrow in a resume. So I threw in
resume, got a job working forthem. So I had a great time work
(02:56):
for them got to learn AutoCADand do well site design where as
building got to go acrosscountry on the energies pipeline
and see some really interestingold equipment. That was pretty
cool. So did that for a coupleof years. And then I worked at
(03:18):
SAIT teaching the apprenticeshipprogram and helping to develop
the solar course. That was a lotof fun. Then I felt the call of
industry and had to had to getback to the field. So I came to
Crestview electric, again, whereI now run our renewables
(03:39):
division CVE solar. So focusingon solar, but I do have little
side projects like our turbinehere behind me. So
Zack Hartle (03:52):
alright, so I like that. But what what I guess what
drew you to solar? So you cameto St. You're instructing at
SAIT? Was it just happenedchance that you built the solar
course? Or was there like whatgot you into I guess, the solar
PV industry? What makes youpassionate about that,
Nathan Ward (04:08):
specifically, I think solar is from by training
at SAIT that most got meinterested in it. So one
instructor I had back when I wasa third year, was really
passionate. I could tell he wasinvested in the trade. And I
think it was in one of the thirdyear classes, some somehow
(04:30):
somehow we got talking aboutsolar. And I was just fascinated
by it. I'm not a lot of thethird year curriculum,
curriculum addresses solar. So Iwent off on my own and just
devoured any resources I couldfind about learning about solar
and kind of I've tried to getthat different training. So I've
(04:54):
taken several courses over theyears and again developed that
course it's a to help Keep solaralive in Calgary. And yeah,
just, it's an interestingtechnology, like, no moving
parts. Sudden hits it and youget current and voltage out.
That's, it's pretty cool to me.
Jason Cox (05:17):
It's really interesting, like the just the,
like you said, I mean, we takeit for granted now, I mean,
everyone's been using solarpowered calculators for 20 or 30
years. But now to see thisactually being used as an actual
energy source, versus just ourstandard generators that we've
(05:39):
used in the past, or hydro,electricity and other provinces.
It is it is quite interesting.
And I mean, you happen to justdovetail into this industry
almost at the perfect time. Andthat's not to say that you were
able to latch onto it, but itwas people like yourself that
really got this, this movementgoing. And, and I mean, the Lots
(05:59):
has changed over the last 10years. It's it just seems to be
building and expanding. And itseems like we have these new
installs throat. Well, for ourfor our purposes here in
Alberta. There's solar installsbeing done on Grand big farm
scales all over the place now tosupplement the grid. So so good
(06:22):
for you for having that energyand, and being one of those
contributing factors. Now Nowyou're one of the subject matter
experts of solar vers. And itwas all just from your, from
your interest in hard work ofresearching this project. So so
good for you.
Zack Hartle (06:42):
So I mean, I guess I mean, that's excellent. Right,
all these opportunities came toyou. And now you like you've
landed in your spot as theRenewable Energy Manager. And as
Jason just mentioned, right,solar, it's changing, and it's
growing, and it's evolving. Andit's, you know, the last decade,
we've just seen an enormousexponential growth and uptake of
solar. Where do you think it'sheaded? I mean, do you think
(07:05):
it's headed more towards smallerscale? Or do we see these farm
scales being, I guess, thefuture of solar a mix of both?
What are your thoughts on thefuture?
Nathan Ward (07:14):
I mean, it's absolutely, of course, gonna be
a mix of both. It's not likewe're gonna stop doing home
solar or stop doing farm solar.
They're both integral componentsof the future grid. I see homes
and businesses being critical instability for the grid, being
able to offset your loads onsite mitigating the need for
transmission and distributionupgrades in the grid support.
(07:38):
Those non wires, alternativesthat you can get, whether that's
solar or solar and storage inthe home or in the business,
that's going to be huge for gridsport, especially on with hot
summers, like we're experiencingwith this heatwave right now.
Jason Cox (07:57):
What this is, like right now, this is the hottest
weather record we've ever had inin Alberta. I look outside and
there is not a cloud in the skylike solar people must be just
rubbing their hands togetherwith the clear skies, the bright
sun, but I mean, obviouslythere's a little bit of heat
there too, right?
Nathan Ward (08:15):
Yeah. I mean, yes.
And no. solar installers alwayslove the summer, right? It's
better than getting on a roof inthe middle of February. Yeah,
no. So the interesting thingabout solar in is like the
actual technology is, with thesilicon solar cell, you've got a
negative temperaturecoefficient. So you actually get
more energy out of it morepower, more higher voltage when
(08:37):
the cells are cooler. So ifyou've got a sunny day, and it's
relatively cool, and versus asunny day, and it's relatively
hot, that cooler day is going toproduce very bit more energy.
Jason Cox (08:57):
So we're looking at Bright sunny days at 15 degrees
Celsius. That's, that's, that'smore of a happy day for you
guys. Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Ward (09:06):
Right now, you'll you'll see a little bit of a dip
from all that heat. I mean, it'snot gonna be ridiculous about
like cutting the energyproduction half, but it is
there.
Zack Hartle (09:19):
Quite a bit better to work and 15 degrees Celsius
to then. I mean, we're 830 inthe morning right now. And it's
25 degrees. So
Jason Cox (09:30):
yeah, it was I mean, in in environments where, where
these temperatures are normalthat the construction workers
are starting at four in themorning so that they can go home
by midday. I would think that'ssomething that's would almost be
necessary right now in this thisthis heatwave? Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Ward (09:50):
I'm glad I'm not much on the day to day
management to the field guys,because this would not be the
most fun time to be outside.
Jason Cox (09:57):
Okay, so when we're starting to Look at the future
here. One of the questions Ihave is if we move towards these
solar systems on roofs andresidential occupancies and
stuff and with the changescoming in, in the, in the Evie
in the, in the future, how arewe going to be able to plug in
(10:22):
our cars and have solar in ourhouse and still not exceed that
maximum OSI on the breaker inyour
Nathan Ward (10:29):
home? Well, it's all about when you're using that
energy. So anybody even ifyou're not in the electrical
trade, if you go look at yourhome electrical panel, then you
add up all those numbers on theon the breakers, it's going to
be a lot more than the number onthe main breaker, right, your
main breaker average home,you're looking at 100, amp main
(10:51):
breaker, all if you add up allthose breakers underneath it,
you could theoretically draw alot more energy than that main
breaker can handle. But youdon't have all your circuits
fully loaded all the time.
There's there's differentfactors at play there. Now, with
with regard to the solar andEVs, it's all about timing. So
if you're able to charge thatEevee during the day, for
(11:15):
example, in this last year, ifyou've been able to work from
home, if you've been luckyenough to do that, and you can
charge that during the day offyour solar, you're essentially
getting free fuel for freevehicle. So there's gonna be a
ton of different challenges forthat future grid, whether it's
more nimble utilities, charging,different time of use metering,
(11:39):
time of use rates, pardon me. Sothose different time of use
rates can incentivize chargingat different times.
Historically, what your servicefrom from the utility hasn't
been really quantified? Well,are you entitled to up to 100
(11:59):
amps 120 to 40 all the timeanytime? Or does the future
utility model? Say you can drawthree kilowatts between this
hour and this hour and fivekilowatts between this hour and
this hour? And et cetera, etcetera? Do they give you new
limits? It's gonna be a reallyinteresting time to see how that
(12:21):
moves forward. I think one ofthe key drivers, there's going
to be advanced meteringinfrastructure, smart meters,
things like that.
Jason Cox (12:32):
Well, that makes sense. Right? That would be a
lot cheaper than having toreplace conductors. I'll just
put it as simple as that. Soyeah, with different ways in
different metrics is, I mean,it's very similar to what
they're doing, or they have donein Europe for years, right? It's
not unheard of, for people to bedoing their laundry, late at
(12:52):
night in, in Europe, right? Justbecause of a rebate on the lower
energy costs at that time. Soyou don't want to be you don't
want to be running your, yourall your air conditioning and
trying to charge your electricvehicle at this time. That might
be that might be difficult.
Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Ward (13:13):
But I mean, if if you can give people that price
signal as to and transparency asto what they're paying, and how
much energy they're using, thenthey can make better decisions
for themselves and financiallyand better decisions for the
grid, as a whole helps usmitigate the tragedy of the
commons with any kind ofinfrastructure project. So
(13:36):
that's a great point.
I did see an interesting casestudy. I think it was a year or
two ago for this. And I believeyou have a did a study on one
feeder section. And theysimulated, essentially, it was
one essentially one transformerand feeding kind of a community
(13:58):
or one substation feedingcommunity, a little bit of
business and in residential. AndI think they simulated a 2%
adoption rate on electricvehicles. And they said, if we
get past that 2% adoption rate,then that feeder section would
be overloaded and need severalmillion dollars in upgrades. So
(14:21):
that on its own is relativelyscary thought. But if we get to
a place where we can get thatadvanced metering infrastructure
out there, and give people thoseprice signals and the ability to
better control their loads, thenyou can definitely offset or
postpone some of those upgrades,or perhaps even postpone them
(14:42):
till they're not needed. Becauseby the time you get to a place
where you absolutely would haveto make those upgrades. Maybe
we're in a scenario where we'vegot higher quality, lower cost,
home energy storage systems,whether that's hydrogen fuel
cells or battery storage or, orwhatever. Where else?
Jason Cox (15:02):
Yeah, well, that's I mean, battery storage is the big
kicker now that when we starttalking about solar, and
renewable, right is that a lotof a lot of people don't
understand that. The big costcomes from those batteries, for
sure. I also liked how you kindof you mentioned a moment ago,
(15:23):
about just informing peopleabout just the the metering and
the monetary rates, I mean,basically, you just have to
change a behavior. And I mean,that happens naturally with,
with adults when they move frombeing an adult to a parent, and
we turn into our parents and runaround and turn off all the
lights. Because that behavior isin place, because we know that
(15:47):
we if we shed the load, right,ideally, our power bill would
come down. The behavior is alsobeing marketed now with car
insurance to a fault wherepeople are ridiculed for driving
slow to the hospital orwhatever. But it's like, I need
to keep my insurance rates down.
So So I guess, with someeducation and some changes in
how we meet her, yeah, maybethere's there's, there's hope
(16:08):
there.
Zack Hartle (16:13):
So, I know, we've talked about this, and you're
working on some of these, youknow, more farm scale soldiers,
right, that are now contributingto the electrical grid in the
province. And they'reparticipating in the electrical
pool here. And I mean, we couldtalk for hours about how
electricity is quantified andbuilt in Alberta, of course, but
(16:34):
what are these? What does a farmscale project look like? You
know, from start to finish? Whatsteps go on? I mean, there's got
to be a huge design phase. And
Nathan Ward (16:46):
I start I guess, first it looks like a field.
Yeah, big field, then it lookslike a field with a bunch of
stubble sticking out. That'sDevil is pile. So big chunks of
metal, IBM, typically driveninto the ground. So that's been
a sport to racking system. Soit's this big. So we're talking
(17:07):
5000 foot view, what what itlooks like, it'll start to look
like field with stubble stickingout of it. And then you're
you'll see more and more jobtrailers coming in. As as more
trades start to come to site asafter the pile driving is
complete. So pile driving isincomplete or, or one section of
it's complete, it kind of movesin waves. It's an interesting
(17:30):
progress. Relative totraditional electrical work,
like you can't think of it likea commercial building, you
almost need to think of it likea factory. Right? It's like an
assembly line, you're doing onepiece at a time. And then you're
moving down the line to the nextsection and the next section and
the next section. So yeah, startstarted with that empty field
(17:50):
piles get driven, then theracking crew comes in. A lot of
the times on these farms scalesolars, the racking crew seems
to be carpenters or laborersduring that installation. It's
interesting because generally aselectricians, we install most of
our own racking system and forwhen we think racking system in
general electrical, maybe wewere thinking of a bunch of unit
(18:13):
struts to hold up, hold uppipes, and we think of that as a
rack. When I say rack, I'mtalking about the solar mounting
system. So one particularproject we're working on, I
won't mention the name, but it'susing a tracking system. So
there's two common types ofsolar racking, for farm scale
(18:34):
projects. You have fixed tilt,which as the name sounds is
fixed in one direction and notmoving and then you have
tracking systems, trackers canbe of two types it can be dual
axis trackers, or single axistrackers. So single axis
trackers, typically you'll seeif the piles in north south
(18:55):
rows, and the panels are goingto track from east to west
throughout the day. So tiltingand tracking the sun throughout
the day trying to be as close toperpendicular to the sun as they
can get that will give it fairlysignificant energy yield.
Increase. So yeah, so rackingcrew comes in those carpenters
(19:18):
start installing the rackingsystem, and then they'll have
what they call a blast routecome in these sometimes our
electricians sometimes are notgenerally though, they should be
at least supervised by anelectrician. So yeah, so those
guys will come in and take thesolar modules out of the pallet.
(19:39):
Lift them up, put them on theracking bolt them in place. And
we go then you have your solarmodule with its DC leads hanging
below. Sitting there definitely.
Definitely need to besupervised. I wish I could share
this picture when I'm My guysent me from our site. It's like
(20:00):
the captain, you have one job.
And the solar module was on therack, but they had crushed the
one lead and in between theracking in the module. So
mistakes can be made even onsimple tasks. Anyways, sorry.
Off topic. Yeah. So once you'vegot the glass in place, this is
(20:23):
where the electrician start toreally come in. So this is where
we would be running our our DCcabling along the racking system
fastening to it. So, on thisproject, I think we got strings
out 25 modules. So how deep doyou want to get into like, just?
Zack Hartle (20:43):
Yeah, that's okay.
So what like, what 25 modules?
How, what kind of DC voltage?
Would you be talking so then,
Nathan Ward (20:49):
yeah, so we're sitting a little bit underneath
1500 volts DC. So really, reallygood. Really relatively high
voltage there. Something mostelectricians aren't exposed to
or working with, unless they'rein the solar industry. It's it's
pretty interesting to see theactual connectors and things
you're working with, and prettysimple devices. Easy crimp
(21:11):
connection fingers safe, plasticconnectors. Yeah, it's really
interesting. So anyways, oncethe modules are hanging there,
you interconnect them one to thenext. And then you have string
cabling that goes to one end ofthat row 25, and the other end
of the row of 25 modules. Andthen we bring all that wiring
(21:32):
from all these different stringsback to what we call a combiner.
Box. So that takes theindividual strings, operating
1500 volts, and brings themtogether with a bunch of other
strings. And so if each stringis operating around 10, or 11
amps or so, now we're bringingthem in with 2930 other strings
(21:54):
into a combiner box. Now we'vegot a lot more current available
at that location. So from there,we've got all that 10 gauge wire
from the strings coming in. Andthen we're heading out of that
combiner box with of course, amuch larger wire because as we
bring them together in parallelcurrent current adds. So we're
(22:14):
heading out with whether it's350, or 500, or 750. All
depending on length for how muchwill drop we want to, we're
gonna see in that cable, basedon how far it is from the
inverter skid. Back from the,from the combiner box to the
inverse kid, you've got allthese five, hundreds and 750s
coming in from the differentcombiners. And then you've got
(22:38):
your inverter skid, where youhave all your DC coming in from
all the combiner boxes out ofthat inverter are of course,
using the inverters convert fromDC to AC, that will then
typically go into a transformerand then step it up to a medium
voltage. So some of theseinverters are really
(23:01):
interesting. They're not typicalvoltages like we see in general
electrical installation is not120 208 or 277 40, or 347 600.
Sometimes you'll have realoddballs like 800 volts AC, but
anyways, that doesn't matter somuch because it's generally
directly connected to inverterto a transformer then that
transformer distributes out tothe back to the substation at
(23:25):
25,000 volts or 35,000 volts,just to minimize your losses.
And then from the substation,you're bringing in all the
energy from all these differentinverters on site, so we've gone
from string level back tocombiner, combiner to inverter,
(23:46):
inverter to substation andsubstation. Back out to the
grid. It's, it's pretty coolprocess. The other electrical
work I guess I didn't reallymention is the trenching
portion. On the solar sites,there's generally a lot of
trenching. On another thing,option, different from
(24:08):
trenching, we have an overheadwire wire method. It's not
really overhead, but it is aboveground. There's a few different
brands but basically, it'sgenerally a copper clad steel
cable. And to that you'll havethese little hangers you'll
attach on every meter or so. Andthen you take that string
(24:32):
cabling and you can hang that inthere. You take minor box
cabling, hang that in there.
It's it's really neat to seecompletely different wiring
method from what most of us wereexposed to. And in general
electric work. Most people havedone trenching at some point in
their in their trade. But thisis this is very different. So
but other than that, like it'sit's relatively simple
(24:55):
connections. You're just doingit 1000s and 1000s. times, so
and as the project goestogether, each of these steps,
they have differentcommissioning things and
tracking things, it's so it'svery organized, it's there's a
lot of reporting that needs tobe done a lot of commissioning,
testing a lot of voltage,current testing, voltage testing
(25:20):
all these different specificsteps to make sure that
everything's done right. Andconsistent. Because whenever
you're doing something 1000s and1000s of times, that's when
people can get complacentmistakes can be made. So there's
lots of different strategies wetry to use to mitigate for them.
And, and, and make sure thosesimple mistakes don't happen. So
Jason Cox (25:43):
and So when, like, just from my point of view, in
my experience, when it came tobig scale electrical installs, I
mean, we typically worked with ageneral and all of our design
came right from an engineeringcompany, right? So when when you
guys go to do the commissioninghere, obviously, you're working
(26:05):
with an engineer, but youyourself when you're designing
your systems, that those designshave to then also go to some
sort of engineer for validation?
Or how does that work?
Nathan Ward (26:17):
Yeah, it definitely varies project to project. So I
do do design projects, as well.
Mostly my just designs have beencommercial, a bunch of
residential as well for solardesign. But yeah, typically, I
start out with my design, so Ilook at the roof surface, or
(26:37):
building surface or, or field orwhatever we're doing, and, and
try to work from my solarfundamentals, and figure out
where we can get the best energyharvest, how to best support
those solar modules. And andstart from there. So once I
figured out that, then I workbackwards and say, okay,
electrically, what do I need?
(27:00):
How much energy am I going toget out of this? And then I take
that information, and then takeit back to the service, how am I
going to connect to the service?
What size of conductors andwe're going to need? How much am
I allowed by code are allowed bydifferent wire service provider
regulations? How much can I feedinto this service, and still get
(27:21):
it through the permittingprocess. And then when the
engineering comes in, not neededon residential projects, but it
is needed on most large scalecommercial projects. Generally,
we, if it's not a pre engineeredproject, and I'm just doing the
install on, but if I'm doing thedesign, we typically, I would do
(27:43):
the design and then send it offto any engineering company that
we feel like doing a littlefavor with and they review my
designs and and sign off on it.
Sometimes it will have a littlecomment, but a little back and
forth little discussion as towhy I made certain design
decisions. But generally peoplehave been quite receptive. So.
Jason Cox (28:09):
And then another question I have is, once again,
most electricians, we're takingthe utility power and supplying
a load, which is a buildingtypically of some sort. You are
providing the power to theutility. So So there's, I'd
imagine there's some interactionthere between the installers of
(28:31):
the system, and then then theutility, is that correct? Not a
lot between the
Nathan Ward (28:37):
installers and utility, I mean, certainly,
there will be a littlecoordination with metering if
there isn't appropriate meteringinfrastructure in place. But
generally, most the interactionwith utility is done way back to
the design stage and permittingstage. So not a lot of field
interaction. But you do get tosee a lot more of the utilities
(29:01):
connection to the, to thebuilding, than you might if
you're just a typical serviceelectrician or are coming in
after the utilities connectionreally gets you an ability to
see into the distributionequipment a lot better. So it's
it's fun and interesting in thatway.
Zack Hartle (29:20):
So you're talking about during the install of
this, this farm scale, right,there's there's portions done by
laborers, and then there'sportions is done by
electricians. And I know, basedon some conversations we've had
in the past, this is a I don'tknow, it's a point of debate and
a point that you're reallypassionate about, but where is
that line between work that canand should be done by laborers
(29:41):
and work that can and should bedone by electricians, and what's
your thought on that line? Andif it's in the right spot?
Nathan Ward (29:49):
I mean, I don't know if it's in the right spot
right now. It seems that thegovernment has taken a stance
that fracking installationdoesn't need to be done by
electricians I fall on under thecamps that the racking install
absolutely should be done by theelectricians. My reason being.
We're responsible for thegrounding and bonding of all
(30:10):
equipment we touch right guys.
So if we're responsible forgrounding and bonding of that
equipment. That's that's anelectrical connection. So we
should be the ones making it.
Does it make sense? Doelectricians want to do that
racking installation? I mean,your work with heavy metal all
(30:33):
day long. So some of itsdepending on if it's punched in
rolled system or things likethat can have sharp edges. Does
the average electrician want towork on that? That's another
question. I got. So should theydo? So it's, it's kind of a toss
up? I would obviously like toprotect the trade and have us be
(30:56):
responsible for that work. Butwhether or not the field guys
actually wanted to? That's aninteresting question.
Jason Cox (31:05):
I think it has to do with where we are in the
economy. I mean, exactly. In mylifetime. I've seen. I mean,
obviously, I've been through acouple of booms and busts now or
seeing the cycle, maybe notmultiple times, but there was
times where electricians couldafford to be a little picky on
what they wanted to do and wherethey wanted to work. And then in
(31:29):
recent times, right, the theamount of work as is not been
there for the the mass communityof electrician. So I think yeah,
like you're saying, I mean,it's, it's the same with
anything what I mean, this iselectrical, right. So there's
always that one job that maybeyou don't want to do. But if
(31:50):
there's nothing else to do, thenfor sure, right? Yeah.
Nathan Ward (31:54):
Maybe we'll do it.
So. So yeah, it's, yeah, we canget, obviously, we want to
always have the mostelectricians working, but you
can understand sometimes whythey're not. Yeah, and there's
definitely been a little bit ofdifference in the this most
recent crop of apprentices andwillingness to work and what
work they're interested in, inwhat work they will just won't
(32:15):
seem to be interested in, indoing. So.
Zack Hartle (32:24):
I think that's definitely changed a bit. I
remember digging trenches for ayear and a half before touching
a piece of conduit or anythinglike that. So,
Nathan Ward (32:32):
yeah, or maybe you touch conduit every day. But
you're the you're just the guywho brings it from the first
floor to the fifth floor. That'sit. Yeah, the start of
apprenticeship for some people,is very different than start for
others. And that's something weall need to do better at to try
and keep people engaged in andtry and get the apprentices
(32:53):
thinking of it, like a career,not just a job, right. I'm very
fortunate in what I've been ableto do with my career and, and
the ways I've been able to move,but it's all on the back of
being an Alberta journeymanredsea, electrician, not other
special skills, just justelectrician at the end of the
(33:15):
day.
Zack Hartle (33:16):
Yeah. So I mean, that's, that's a good point,
right? You've, you've reallytaken advantage in your career
of exploring new opportunities,searching for new things. So I
mean, if there's peoplelistening, or people out there
who come to you and ask, like,what should they do if they're
interested in learning moreabout solar, or working on solar
as the electricalapprenticeship? But obviously, I
(33:36):
mean, be our recommendation hereas three electricians But
absolutely,
Nathan Ward (33:40):
obviously, we might be biased. But yeah,
Zack Hartle (33:43):
anything else they should be looking at if they're
trying to get into solar? Or isit just, you know, search out
for solar companies and apply?
Or what if someone came to you,what would you want them to
have?
Nathan Ward (33:54):
Basic electrical knowledge and work ethic is all
I'm looking for. To feed andArtbeat and you want to show up
for work? It's the work isn'tthat hard? If you're on a solar
farm, it absolutely can bemonotonous. Like, there are
certain jobs that just have tobe done, right? We need to strap
(34:15):
that wiring. So you're gonnaoperate tie wraps for three,
four weeks, eight weeks, 12weeks, depending on what crew
you're on. But we try and rotateguys through we try and give you
interesting jobs. I guess myadvice to the new apprentice or
young electrician, ask questionsor your Foreman to Hey, why are
(34:36):
we doing this? I mean,definitely, certainly pick your
timing, but ask questions, beenthusiastic. That's it's, it's
got me a long way. I definitelywouldn't have the skills I have
now. If I didn't ask questions.
Zack Hartle (34:53):
And I think that's something that maybe has become
lacking, I guess in the last fewyears just talking with people
is the same way, as you know,you got to ask questions. Why
are we doing this? How can we'redoing it this way? Is there
other ways of doing this? Right?
And just asking those questionsor it's key to learning, right,
as we all know, and, and likeyou say, asking at the right
(35:15):
time, I remember always, myjourneyman had told me, you
know, if you got to talk to theforeman, it's based on how fast
they're walking, if they'rewalking really fast, it's not
the right time. Right? Becausethey're probably going to put up
some kind of fire somewhere.
Nathan Ward (35:28):
Yeah. Yeah, reading the room. Absolutely.
Jason Cox (35:35):
So Nathan, I've got a heartbeat. And I've got two
feet. I think that's how you putthat. As a parent of a young
adult, if my son or daughter wasinterested in, in pursuing a
career career in electrical, andwas interested in the solar, how
(35:56):
would that look if they wantedto apply for a position? With
with your company? Right?
Nathan Ward (36:02):
Yeah, so good question. So I guess, for my
philosophy and Crestviewphilosophy, how we try to treat
our apprentices. I try not tohave solar specific people. I
don't know if this comes from mytime teaching, or it's, I mean,
it's just just how I think Iwant you to be a good overall
(36:25):
electrician, not just a solarinstaller, right? It's, it's one
trade, not two trades. So Iwould try, come apply to us, we
may get you on a soul projectright away, we may get you on a
general electrical project couldbe commercial project, it could
be assisting someone in theservice, man, all kinds of
(36:47):
different projects. So we,number one, get you indentured,
get your safety trained. Andthen you'd be out on a site
working, again, to feed aheartbeat. But also the other
thing I mentioned, enthusiasm,show up every day, ask
questions, and you will go farin this company. So enthusiasm,
(37:11):
and a positive mindset goes along way than a pair of steel
toed boots in a tool.
Jason Cox (37:19):
Absolutely. All right. Is there anything else
you'd like to add there? Zack?
No, I
Zack Hartle (37:25):
think that I mean, that comes down to you know,
again, the the accountabilityand the integrity of the trade,
which is really part of themessaging. is, you know why we
started this podcast is whatmakes the trade great. And what
can keep it great. So that itdoesn't shift away from that,
you know, it's given all of usso much, and we just want to
(37:47):
give that back. Right?
Nathan Ward (37:48):
Yep. And I think one way we can keep keep the
trade strong, is just keep beingenthusiastic, keep caring about
the trade and get more people inwho care and encourage those who
don't to leave.
Jason Cox (38:06):
You definitely I like your your point today about
asking lots of questions, right?
We need to have conversations,everyone needs to be informed.
Right? And that can only help tomake our trade stronger. And,
and yes, it's not. We don't wantto have just one segmented. I
install solar I installed pipe.
I'm the guy that digs the ditch,right? You need to be refined
(38:29):
and know how to do everything.
And a lot of that comes frompractice. So yeah, so there's a
lot of repetitive jobs outthere. And hopefully, you're,
you're, you're refining yourskills so that you know what
you're
Nathan Ward (38:46):
doing. Right?
Absolutely. Just Just practiceimplementation and try to try as
many different things as as yougo through your apprenticeship,
for sure.
Jason Cox (38:59):
Well, I'd like to say on behalf of Zack and myself,
thank you so much, Nathan forbeing with us today. And we'd
like to thank our listeners forjoining Watt's the Word podcast
today. We'd love to hear fromyou. And if you liked the show,
or have any suggestions for usfor a future episode, we greatly
appreciate that. Make sure thatyou leave us a review. Reach out
to us on Instagram, or commentto let us know your thoughts.
(39:22):
Once again. Ask questions talkto us. Right we would like to
make the industry better. Welike to learn hopefully you like
to learn. We'll be back everysecond Monday with a new episode
for you. Make sure you subscribeand thanks for listening.
Nathan Ward (39:39):
Thanks for having me, guys.
Hello, and welcome to Watt's the Word, a podcast
linking together electricaltrade and industry members. I'm
Jason Cox, and together withZack Hartle, we're having
relevant and informativeconversations with members of
our industry.
Zack Hartle (00:15):
With us here today as a guest who really couldn't
be more passionate about solarPV energy. This is Nathan ward.
He's with the Crestview group.
He's the Renewable EnergyManager here in Calgary. He's
got a really diverse electricalbackground, commercial design,
instructing, actually, and thenfinally now finding his home in
the renewable energy sector. Sowelcome, Nathan.
Nathan Ward (00:37):
Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.
Zack Hartle (00:39):
Absolutely. So with the show, Nathan, you know, it's
a little bit of two parts. Thefirst part we want to know, you
know, tell us about yourselfyour background, what do you
currently do? Why you're in theelectrical industry, and
passionate, and then we're goingto have you, you know, talk
about solar PV energy a littlebit, and we have some questions
for you on that. So, I mean,take it away, and let us know
(01:01):
how you got to where you aretoday, and why you're what still
drives you in the industry.
Nathan Ward (01:06):
Sure, I'll try and be quick. So I first thought
about electricity. I think itwas around Christmas, when I was
pretty young. My sister wasplugging in the tree, and she
grabbed both prongs, plugged inthe lights, and then started to
cry. So that was my firstexperience with electrical
(01:29):
didn't think about it much untillater. Then started working in
different trades, gettingexposed to different
construction, framing, drywall,plumbing, mechanical, concrete,
all kinds of things, and thenstarted helping out with a
little bit of electrical. Andlike, oh, I don't know anything
(01:51):
about that. Let's see where thatgoes. So I started an
apprenticeship with pyramidCorporation, worked in their
panel shop was great place tospend the first year and a half
in the in the trade on workingunder a roof in the hot summer
in a building better than on aroof with someone like now and
solar. But we'll get there. Sodid that for the first year and
(02:15):
a half in the trade. Then Iworked for Crestview electric
doing commercial installations.
That was fantastic. I workedwith Crestview until I got my
journeyman ticket. After after Igot my ticket, my uncle who had
recommended me to apply apyramid told me that I should
come work for this engineering,he was a firm he was working
(02:35):
for. Because they want someonewith field experience who
understands how these electricalcomponents go together is
basically the wording he used.
So he asked me to come along andthrow in a resume. So I threw in
resume, got a job working forthem. So I had a great time work
(02:56):
for them got to learn AutoCADand do well site design where as
building got to go acrosscountry on the energies pipeline
and see some really interestingold equipment. That was pretty
cool. So did that for a coupleof years. And then I worked at
(03:18):
SAIT teaching the apprenticeshipprogram and helping to develop
the solar course. That was a lotof fun. Then I felt the call of
industry and had to had to getback to the field. So I came to
Crestview electric, again, whereI now run our renewables
(03:39):
division CVE solar. So focusingon solar, but I do have little
side projects like our turbinehere behind me. So
Zack Hartle (03:52):
alright, so I like that. But what what I guess what
drew you to solar? So you cameto St. You're instructing at
SAIT? Was it just happenedchance that you built the solar
course? Or was there like whatgot you into I guess, the solar
PV industry? What makes youpassionate about that,
Nathan Ward (04:08):
specifically, I think solar is from by training
at SAIT that most got meinterested in it. So one
instructor I had back when I wasa third year, was really
passionate. I could tell he wasinvested in the trade. And I
think it was in one of the thirdyear classes, some somehow
(04:30):
somehow we got talking aboutsolar. And I was just fascinated
by it. I'm not a lot of thethird year curriculum,
curriculum addresses solar. So Iwent off on my own and just
devoured any resources I couldfind about learning about solar
and kind of I've tried to getthat different training. So I've
(04:54):
taken several courses over theyears and again developed that
course it's a to help Keep solaralive in Calgary. And yeah,
just, it's an interestingtechnology, like, no moving
parts. Sudden hits it and youget current and voltage out.
That's, it's pretty cool to me.
Jason Cox (05:17):
It's really interesting, like the just the,
like you said, I mean, we takeit for granted now, I mean,
everyone's been using solarpowered calculators for 20 or 30
years. But now to see thisactually being used as an actual
energy source, versus just ourstandard generators that we've
(05:39):
used in the past, or hydro,electricity and other provinces.
It is it is quite interesting.
And I mean, you happen to justdovetail into this industry
almost at the perfect time. Andthat's not to say that you were
able to latch onto it, but itwas people like yourself that
really got this, this movementgoing. And, and I mean, the Lots
(05:59):
has changed over the last 10years. It's it just seems to be
building and expanding. And itseems like we have these new
installs throat. Well, for ourfor our purposes here in
Alberta. There's solar installsbeing done on Grand big farm
scales all over the place now tosupplement the grid. So so good
(06:22):
for you for having that energyand, and being one of those
contributing factors. Now Nowyou're one of the subject matter
experts of solar vers. And itwas all just from your, from
your interest in hard work ofresearching this project. So so
good for you.
Zack Hartle (06:42):
So I mean, I guess I mean, that's excellent. Right,
all these opportunities came toyou. And now you like you've
landed in your spot as theRenewable Energy Manager. And as
Jason just mentioned, right,solar, it's changing, and it's
growing, and it's evolving. Andit's, you know, the last decade,
we've just seen an enormousexponential growth and uptake of
solar. Where do you think it'sheaded? I mean, do you think
(07:05):
it's headed more towards smallerscale? Or do we see these farm
scales being, I guess, thefuture of solar a mix of both?
What are your thoughts on thefuture?
Nathan Ward (07:14):
I mean, it's absolutely, of course, gonna be
a mix of both. It's not likewe're gonna stop doing home
solar or stop doing farm solar.
They're both integral componentsof the future grid. I see homes
and businesses being critical instability for the grid, being
able to offset your loads onsite mitigating the need for
transmission and distributionupgrades in the grid support.
(07:38):
Those non wires, alternativesthat you can get, whether that's
solar or solar and storage inthe home or in the business,
that's going to be huge for gridsport, especially on with hot
summers, like we're experiencingwith this heatwave right now.
Jason Cox (07:57):
What this is, like right now, this is the hottest
weather record we've ever had inin Alberta. I look outside and
there is not a cloud in the skylike solar people must be just
rubbing their hands togetherwith the clear skies, the bright
sun, but I mean, obviouslythere's a little bit of heat
there too, right?
Nathan Ward (08:15):
Yeah. I mean, yes.
And no. solar installers alwayslove the summer, right? It's
better than getting on a roof inthe middle of February. Yeah,
no. So the interesting thingabout solar in is like the
actual technology is, with thesilicon solar cell, you've got a
negative temperaturecoefficient. So you actually get
more energy out of it morepower, more higher voltage when
(08:37):
the cells are cooler. So ifyou've got a sunny day, and it's
relatively cool, and versus asunny day, and it's relatively
hot, that cooler day is going toproduce very bit more energy.
Jason Cox (08:57):
So we're looking at Bright sunny days at 15 degrees
Celsius. That's, that's, that'smore of a happy day for you
guys. Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Ward (09:06):
Right now, you'll you'll see a little bit of a dip
from all that heat. I mean, it'snot gonna be ridiculous about
like cutting the energyproduction half, but it is
there.
Zack Hartle (09:19):
Quite a bit better to work and 15 degrees Celsius
to then. I mean, we're 830 inthe morning right now. And it's
25 degrees. So
Jason Cox (09:30):
yeah, it was I mean, in in environments where, where
these temperatures are normalthat the construction workers
are starting at four in themorning so that they can go home
by midday. I would think that'ssomething that's would almost be
necessary right now in this thisthis heatwave? Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Ward (09:50):
I'm glad I'm not much on the day to day
management to the field guys,because this would not be the
most fun time to be outside.
Jason Cox (09:57):
Okay, so when we're starting to Look at the future
here. One of the questions Ihave is if we move towards these
solar systems on roofs andresidential occupancies and
stuff and with the changescoming in, in the, in the Evie
in the, in the future, how arewe going to be able to plug in
(10:22):
our cars and have solar in ourhouse and still not exceed that
maximum OSI on the breaker inyour
Nathan Ward (10:29):
home? Well, it's all about when you're using that
energy. So anybody even ifyou're not in the electrical
trade, if you go look at yourhome electrical panel, then you
add up all those numbers on theon the breakers, it's going to
be a lot more than the number onthe main breaker, right, your
main breaker average home,you're looking at 100, amp main
(10:51):
breaker, all if you add up allthose breakers underneath it,
you could theoretically draw alot more energy than that main
breaker can handle. But youdon't have all your circuits
fully loaded all the time.
There's there's differentfactors at play there. Now, with
with regard to the solar andEVs, it's all about timing. So
if you're able to charge thatEevee during the day, for
(11:15):
example, in this last year, ifyou've been able to work from
home, if you've been luckyenough to do that, and you can
charge that during the day offyour solar, you're essentially
getting free fuel for freevehicle. So there's gonna be a
ton of different challenges forthat future grid, whether it's
more nimble utilities, charging,different time of use metering,
(11:39):
time of use rates, pardon me. Sothose different time of use
rates can incentivize chargingat different times.
Historically, what your servicefrom from the utility hasn't
been really quantified? Well,are you entitled to up to 100
(11:59):
amps 120 to 40 all the timeanytime? Or does the future
utility model? Say you can drawthree kilowatts between this
hour and this hour and fivekilowatts between this hour and
this hour? And et cetera, etcetera? Do they give you new
limits? It's gonna be a reallyinteresting time to see how that
(12:21):
moves forward. I think one ofthe key drivers, there's going
to be advanced meteringinfrastructure, smart meters,
things like that.
Jason Cox (12:32):
Well, that makes sense. Right? That would be a
lot cheaper than having toreplace conductors. I'll just
put it as simple as that. Soyeah, with different ways in
different metrics is, I mean,it's very similar to what
they're doing, or they have donein Europe for years, right? It's
not unheard of, for people to bedoing their laundry, late at
(12:52):
night in, in Europe, right? Justbecause of a rebate on the lower
energy costs at that time. Soyou don't want to be you don't
want to be running your, yourall your air conditioning and
trying to charge your electricvehicle at this time. That might
be that might be difficult.
Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Ward (13:13):
But I mean, if if you can give people that price
signal as to and transparency asto what they're paying, and how
much energy they're using, thenthey can make better decisions
for themselves and financiallyand better decisions for the
grid, as a whole helps usmitigate the tragedy of the
commons with any kind ofinfrastructure project. So
(13:36):
that's a great point.
I did see an interesting casestudy. I think it was a year or
two ago for this. And I believeyou have a did a study on one
feeder section. And theysimulated, essentially, it was
one essentially one transformerand feeding kind of a community
(13:58):
or one substation feedingcommunity, a little bit of
business and in residential. AndI think they simulated a 2%
adoption rate on electricvehicles. And they said, if we
get past that 2% adoption rate,then that feeder section would
be overloaded and need severalmillion dollars in upgrades. So
(14:21):
that on its own is relativelyscary thought. But if we get to
a place where we can get thatadvanced metering infrastructure
out there, and give people thoseprice signals and the ability to
better control their loads, thenyou can definitely offset or
postpone some of those upgrades,or perhaps even postpone them
(14:42):
till they're not needed. Becauseby the time you get to a place
where you absolutely would haveto make those upgrades. Maybe
we're in a scenario where we'vegot higher quality, lower cost,
home energy storage systems,whether that's hydrogen fuel
cells or battery storage or, orwhatever. Where else?
Jason Cox (15:02):
Yeah, well, that's I mean, battery storage is the big
kicker now that when we starttalking about solar, and
renewable, right is that a lotof a lot of people don't
understand that. The big costcomes from those batteries, for
sure. I also liked how you kindof you mentioned a moment ago,
(15:23):
about just informing peopleabout just the the metering and
the monetary rates, I mean,basically, you just have to
change a behavior. And I mean,that happens naturally with,
with adults when they move frombeing an adult to a parent, and
we turn into our parents and runaround and turn off all the
lights. Because that behavior isin place, because we know that
(15:47):
we if we shed the load, right,ideally, our power bill would
come down. The behavior is alsobeing marketed now with car
insurance to a fault wherepeople are ridiculed for driving
slow to the hospital orwhatever. But it's like, I need
to keep my insurance rates down.
So So I guess, with someeducation and some changes in
how we meet her, yeah, maybethere's there's, there's hope
(16:08):
there.
Zack Hartle (16:13):
So, I know, we've talked about this, and you're
working on some of these, youknow, more farm scale soldiers,
right, that are now contributingto the electrical grid in the
province. And they'reparticipating in the electrical
pool here. And I mean, we couldtalk for hours about how
electricity is quantified andbuilt in Alberta, of course, but
(16:34):
what are these? What does a farmscale project look like? You
know, from start to finish? Whatsteps go on? I mean, there's got
to be a huge design phase. And
Nathan Ward (16:46):
I start I guess, first it looks like a field.
Yeah, big field, then it lookslike a field with a bunch of
stubble sticking out. That'sDevil is pile. So big chunks of
metal, IBM, typically driveninto the ground. So that's been
a sport to racking system. Soit's this big. So we're talking
(17:07):
5000 foot view, what what itlooks like, it'll start to look
like field with stubble stickingout of it. And then you're
you'll see more and more jobtrailers coming in. As as more
trades start to come to site asafter the pile driving is
complete. So pile driving isincomplete or, or one section of
it's complete, it kind of movesin waves. It's an interesting
(17:30):
progress. Relative totraditional electrical work,
like you can't think of it likea commercial building, you
almost need to think of it likea factory. Right? It's like an
assembly line, you're doing onepiece at a time. And then you're
moving down the line to the nextsection and the next section and
the next section. So yeah, startstarted with that empty field
(17:50):
piles get driven, then theracking crew comes in. A lot of
the times on these farms scalesolars, the racking crew seems
to be carpenters or laborersduring that installation. It's
interesting because generally aselectricians, we install most of
our own racking system and forwhen we think racking system in
general electrical, maybe wewere thinking of a bunch of unit
(18:13):
struts to hold up, hold uppipes, and we think of that as a
rack. When I say rack, I'mtalking about the solar mounting
system. So one particularproject we're working on, I
won't mention the name, but it'susing a tracking system. So
there's two common types ofsolar racking, for farm scale
(18:34):
projects. You have fixed tilt,which as the name sounds is
fixed in one direction and notmoving and then you have
tracking systems, trackers canbe of two types it can be dual
axis trackers, or single axistrackers. So single axis
trackers, typically you'll seeif the piles in north south
(18:55):
rows, and the panels are goingto track from east to west
throughout the day. So tiltingand tracking the sun throughout
the day trying to be as close toperpendicular to the sun as they
can get that will give it fairlysignificant energy yield.
Increase. So yeah, so rackingcrew comes in those carpenters
(19:18):
start installing the rackingsystem, and then they'll have
what they call a blast routecome in these sometimes our
electricians sometimes are notgenerally though, they should be
at least supervised by anelectrician. So yeah, so those
guys will come in and take thesolar modules out of the pallet.
(19:39):
Lift them up, put them on theracking bolt them in place. And
we go then you have your solarmodule with its DC leads hanging
below. Sitting there definitely.
Definitely need to besupervised. I wish I could share
this picture when I'm My guysent me from our site. It's like
(20:00):
the captain, you have one job.
And the solar module was on therack, but they had crushed the
one lead and in between theracking in the module. So
mistakes can be made even onsimple tasks. Anyways, sorry.
Off topic. Yeah. So once you'vegot the glass in place, this is
(20:23):
where the electrician start toreally come in. So this is where
we would be running our our DCcabling along the racking system
fastening to it. So, on thisproject, I think we got strings
out 25 modules. So how deep doyou want to get into like, just?
Zack Hartle (20:43):
Yeah, that's okay.
So what like, what 25 modules?
How, what kind of DC voltage?
Would you be talking so then,
Nathan Ward (20:49):
yeah, so we're sitting a little bit underneath
1500 volts DC. So really, reallygood. Really relatively high
voltage there. Something mostelectricians aren't exposed to
or working with, unless they'rein the solar industry. It's it's
pretty interesting to see theactual connectors and things
you're working with, and prettysimple devices. Easy crimp
(21:11):
connection fingers safe, plasticconnectors. Yeah, it's really
interesting. So anyways, oncethe modules are hanging there,
you interconnect them one to thenext. And then you have string
cabling that goes to one end ofthat row 25, and the other end
of the row of 25 modules. Andthen we bring all that wiring
(21:32):
from all these different stringsback to what we call a combiner.
Box. So that takes theindividual strings, operating
1500 volts, and brings themtogether with a bunch of other
strings. And so if each stringis operating around 10, or 11
amps or so, now we're bringingthem in with 2930 other strings
(21:54):
into a combiner box. Now we'vegot a lot more current available
at that location. So from there,we've got all that 10 gauge wire
from the strings coming in. Andthen we're heading out of that
combiner box with of course, amuch larger wire because as we
bring them together in parallelcurrent current adds. So we're
(22:14):
heading out with whether it's350, or 500, or 750. All
depending on length for how muchwill drop we want to, we're
gonna see in that cable, basedon how far it is from the
inverter skid. Back from the,from the combiner box to the
inverse kid, you've got allthese five, hundreds and 750s
coming in from the differentcombiners. And then you've got
(22:38):
your inverter skid, where youhave all your DC coming in from
all the combiner boxes out ofthat inverter are of course,
using the inverters convert fromDC to AC, that will then
typically go into a transformerand then step it up to a medium
voltage. So some of theseinverters are really
(23:01):
interesting. They're not typicalvoltages like we see in general
electrical installation is not120 208 or 277 40, or 347 600.
Sometimes you'll have realoddballs like 800 volts AC, but
anyways, that doesn't matter somuch because it's generally
directly connected to inverterto a transformer then that
transformer distributes out tothe back to the substation at
(23:25):
25,000 volts or 35,000 volts,just to minimize your losses.
And then from the substation,you're bringing in all the
energy from all these differentinverters on site, so we've gone
from string level back tocombiner, combiner to inverter,
(23:46):
inverter to substation andsubstation. Back out to the
grid. It's, it's pretty coolprocess. The other electrical
work I guess I didn't reallymention is the trenching
portion. On the solar sites,there's generally a lot of
trenching. On another thing,option, different from
(24:08):
trenching, we have an overheadwire wire method. It's not
really overhead, but it is aboveground. There's a few different
brands but basically, it'sgenerally a copper clad steel
cable. And to that you'll havethese little hangers you'll
attach on every meter or so. Andthen you take that string
(24:32):
cabling and you can hang that inthere. You take minor box
cabling, hang that in there.
It's it's really neat to seecompletely different wiring
method from what most of us wereexposed to. And in general
electric work. Most people havedone trenching at some point in
their in their trade. But thisis this is very different. So
but other than that, like it'sit's relatively simple
(24:55):
connections. You're just doingit 1000s and 1000s. times, so
and as the project goestogether, each of these steps,
they have differentcommissioning things and
tracking things, it's so it'svery organized, it's there's a
lot of reporting that needs tobe done a lot of commissioning,
testing a lot of voltage,current testing, voltage testing
(25:20):
all these different specificsteps to make sure that
everything's done right. Andconsistent. Because whenever
you're doing something 1000s and1000s of times, that's when
people can get complacentmistakes can be made. So there's
lots of different strategies wetry to use to mitigate for them.
And, and, and make sure thosesimple mistakes don't happen. So
Jason Cox (25:43):
and So when, like, just from my point of view, in
my experience, when it came tobig scale electrical installs, I
mean, we typically worked with ageneral and all of our design
came right from an engineeringcompany, right? So when when you
guys go to do the commissioninghere, obviously, you're working
(26:05):
with an engineer, but youyourself when you're designing
your systems, that those designshave to then also go to some
sort of engineer for validation?
Or how does that work?
Nathan Ward (26:17):
Yeah, it definitely varies project to project. So I
do do design projects, as well.
Mostly my just designs have beencommercial, a bunch of
residential as well for solardesign. But yeah, typically, I
start out with my design, so Ilook at the roof surface, or
(26:37):
building surface or, or field orwhatever we're doing, and, and
try to work from my solarfundamentals, and figure out
where we can get the best energyharvest, how to best support
those solar modules. And andstart from there. So once I
figured out that, then I workbackwards and say, okay,
electrically, what do I need?
(27:00):
How much energy am I going toget out of this? And then I take
that information, and then takeit back to the service, how am I
going to connect to the service?
What size of conductors andwe're going to need? How much am
I allowed by code are allowed bydifferent wire service provider
regulations? How much can I feedinto this service, and still get
(27:21):
it through the permittingprocess. And then when the
engineering comes in, not neededon residential projects, but it
is needed on most large scalecommercial projects. Generally,
we, if it's not a pre engineeredproject, and I'm just doing the
install on, but if I'm doing thedesign, we typically, I would do
(27:43):
the design and then send it offto any engineering company that
we feel like doing a littlefavor with and they review my
designs and and sign off on it.
Sometimes it will have a littlecomment, but a little back and
forth little discussion as towhy I made certain design
decisions. But generally peoplehave been quite receptive. So.
Jason Cox (28:09):
And then another question I have is, once again,
most electricians, we're takingthe utility power and supplying
a load, which is a buildingtypically of some sort. You are
providing the power to theutility. So So there's, I'd
imagine there's some interactionthere between the installers of
(28:31):
the system, and then then theutility, is that correct? Not a
lot between the
Nathan Ward (28:37):
installers and utility, I mean, certainly,
there will be a littlecoordination with metering if
there isn't appropriate meteringinfrastructure in place. But
generally, most the interactionwith utility is done way back to
the design stage and permittingstage. So not a lot of field
interaction. But you do get tosee a lot more of the utilities
(29:01):
connection to the, to thebuilding, than you might if
you're just a typical serviceelectrician or are coming in
after the utilities connectionreally gets you an ability to
see into the distributionequipment a lot better. So it's
it's fun and interesting in thatway.
Zack Hartle (29:20):
So you're talking about during the install of
this, this farm scale, right,there's there's portions done by
laborers, and then there'sportions is done by
electricians. And I know, basedon some conversations we've had
in the past, this is a I don'tknow, it's a point of debate and
a point that you're reallypassionate about, but where is
that line between work that canand should be done by laborers
(29:41):
and work that can and should bedone by electricians, and what's
your thought on that line? Andif it's in the right spot?
Nathan Ward (29:49):
I mean, I don't know if it's in the right spot
right now. It seems that thegovernment has taken a stance
that fracking installationdoesn't need to be done by
electricians I fall on under thecamps that the racking install
absolutely should be done by theelectricians. My reason being.
We're responsible for thegrounding and bonding of all
(30:10):
equipment we touch right guys.
So if we're responsible forgrounding and bonding of that
equipment. That's that's anelectrical connection. So we
should be the ones making it.
Does it make sense? Doelectricians want to do that
racking installation? I mean,your work with heavy metal all
(30:33):
day long. So some of itsdepending on if it's punched in
rolled system or things likethat can have sharp edges. Does
the average electrician want towork on that? That's another
question. I got. So should theydo? So it's, it's kind of a toss
up? I would obviously like toprotect the trade and have us be
(30:56):
responsible for that work. Butwhether or not the field guys
actually wanted to? That's aninteresting question.
Jason Cox (31:05):
I think it has to do with where we are in the
economy. I mean, exactly. In mylifetime. I've seen. I mean,
obviously, I've been through acouple of booms and busts now or
seeing the cycle, maybe notmultiple times, but there was
times where electricians couldafford to be a little picky on
what they wanted to do and wherethey wanted to work. And then in
(31:29):
recent times, right, the theamount of work as is not been
there for the the mass communityof electrician. So I think yeah,
like you're saying, I mean,it's, it's the same with
anything what I mean, this iselectrical, right. So there's
always that one job that maybeyou don't want to do. But if
(31:50):
there's nothing else to do, thenfor sure, right? Yeah.
Nathan Ward (31:54):
Maybe we'll do it.
So. So yeah, it's, yeah, we canget, obviously, we want to
always have the mostelectricians working, but you
can understand sometimes whythey're not. Yeah, and there's
definitely been a little bit ofdifference in the this most
recent crop of apprentices andwillingness to work and what
work they're interested in, inwhat work they will just won't
(32:15):
seem to be interested in, indoing. So.
Zack Hartle (32:24):
I think that's definitely changed a bit. I
remember digging trenches for ayear and a half before touching
a piece of conduit or anythinglike that. So,
Nathan Ward (32:32):
yeah, or maybe you touch conduit every day. But
you're the you're just the guywho brings it from the first
floor to the fifth floor. That'sit. Yeah, the start of
apprenticeship for some people,is very different than start for
others. And that's something weall need to do better at to try
and keep people engaged in andtry and get the apprentices
(32:53):
thinking of it, like a career,not just a job, right. I'm very
fortunate in what I've been ableto do with my career and, and
the ways I've been able to move,but it's all on the back of
being an Alberta journeymanredsea, electrician, not other
special skills, just justelectrician at the end of the
(33:15):
day.
Zack Hartle (33:16):
Yeah. So I mean, that's, that's a good point,
right? You've, you've reallytaken advantage in your career
of exploring new opportunities,searching for new things. So I
mean, if there's peoplelistening, or people out there
who come to you and ask, like,what should they do if they're
interested in learning moreabout solar, or working on solar
as the electricalapprenticeship? But obviously, I
(33:36):
mean, be our recommendation hereas three electricians But
absolutely,
Nathan Ward (33:40):
obviously, we might be biased. But yeah,
Zack Hartle (33:43):
anything else they should be looking at if they're
trying to get into solar? Or isit just, you know, search out
for solar companies and apply?
Or what if someone came to you,what would you want them to
have?
Nathan Ward (33:54):
Basic electrical knowledge and work ethic is all
I'm looking for. To feed andArtbeat and you want to show up
for work? It's the work isn'tthat hard? If you're on a solar
farm, it absolutely can bemonotonous. Like, there are
certain jobs that just have tobe done, right? We need to strap
(34:15):
that wiring. So you're gonnaoperate tie wraps for three,
four weeks, eight weeks, 12weeks, depending on what crew
you're on. But we try and rotateguys through we try and give you
interesting jobs. I guess myadvice to the new apprentice or
young electrician, ask questionsor your Foreman to Hey, why are
(34:36):
we doing this? I mean,definitely, certainly pick your
timing, but ask questions, beenthusiastic. That's it's, it's
got me a long way. I definitelywouldn't have the skills I have
now. If I didn't ask questions.
Zack Hartle (34:53):
And I think that's something that maybe has become
lacking, I guess in the last fewyears just talking with people
is the same way, as you know,you got to ask questions. Why
are we doing this? How can we'redoing it this way? Is there
other ways of doing this? Right?
And just asking those questionsor it's key to learning, right,
as we all know, and, and likeyou say, asking at the right
(35:15):
time, I remember always, myjourneyman had told me, you
know, if you got to talk to theforeman, it's based on how fast
they're walking, if they'rewalking really fast, it's not
the right time. Right? Becausethey're probably going to put up
some kind of fire somewhere.
Nathan Ward (35:28):
Yeah. Yeah, reading the room. Absolutely.
Jason Cox (35:35):
So Nathan, I've got a heartbeat. And I've got two
feet. I think that's how you putthat. As a parent of a young
adult, if my son or daughter wasinterested in, in pursuing a
career career in electrical, andwas interested in the solar, how
(35:56):
would that look if they wantedto apply for a position? With
with your company? Right?
Nathan Ward (36:02):
Yeah, so good question. So I guess, for my
philosophy and Crestviewphilosophy, how we try to treat
our apprentices. I try not tohave solar specific people. I
don't know if this comes from mytime teaching, or it's, I mean,
it's just just how I think Iwant you to be a good overall
(36:25):
electrician, not just a solarinstaller, right? It's, it's one
trade, not two trades. So Iwould try, come apply to us, we
may get you on a soul projectright away, we may get you on a
general electrical project couldbe commercial project, it could
be assisting someone in theservice, man, all kinds of
(36:47):
different projects. So we,number one, get you indentured,
get your safety trained. Andthen you'd be out on a site
working, again, to feed aheartbeat. But also the other
thing I mentioned, enthusiasm,show up every day, ask
questions, and you will go farin this company. So enthusiasm,
(37:11):
and a positive mindset goes along way than a pair of steel
toed boots in a tool.
Jason Cox (37:19):
Absolutely. All right. Is there anything else
you'd like to add there? Zack?
No, I
Zack Hartle (37:25):
think that I mean, that comes down to you know,
again, the the accountabilityand the integrity of the trade,
which is really part of themessaging. is, you know why we
started this podcast is whatmakes the trade great. And what
can keep it great. So that itdoesn't shift away from that,
you know, it's given all of usso much, and we just want to
(37:47):
give that back. Right?
Nathan Ward (37:48):
Yep. And I think one way we can keep keep the
trade strong, is just keep beingenthusiastic, keep caring about
the trade and get more people inwho care and encourage those who
don't to leave.
Jason Cox (38:06):
You definitely I like your your point today about
asking lots of questions, right?
We need to have conversations,everyone needs to be informed.
Right? And that can only help tomake our trade stronger. And,
and yes, it's not. We don't wantto have just one segmented. I
install solar I installed pipe.
I'm the guy that digs the ditch,right? You need to be refined
(38:29):
and know how to do everything.
And a lot of that comes frompractice. So yeah, so there's a
lot of repetitive jobs outthere. And hopefully, you're,
you're, you're refining yourskills so that you know what
you're
Nathan Ward (38:46):
doing. Right?
Absolutely. Just Just practiceimplementation and try to try as
many different things as as yougo through your apprenticeship,
for sure.
Jason Cox (38:59):
Well, I'd like to say on behalf of Zack and myself,
thank you so much, Nathan forbeing with us today. And we'd
like to thank our listeners forjoining Watt's the Word podcast
today. We'd love to hear fromyou. And if you liked the show,
or have any suggestions for usfor a future episode, we greatly
appreciate that. Make sure thatyou leave us a review. Reach out
to us on Instagram, or commentto let us know your thoughts.
(39:22):
Once again. Ask questions talkto us. Right we would like to
make the industry better. Welike to learn hopefully you like
to learn. We'll be back everysecond Monday with a new episode
for you. Make sure you subscribeand thanks for listening.
Nathan Ward (39:39):
Thanks for having me, guys.
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