October 30, 2025 • 33 mins
We’re wrapping up our LA interview series with a bang. Thai Randolph and Katie Soo join Chris Hill and Adhrucia Apana to talk brand leadership, creative growth, and what it really takes to stay ahead in a fast-changing world.
Show Highlights:
(00:00) Introduction and Guest Welcome
(00:47)Meet the Guests: Katie Sue and Ty Randolph
(01:19) Ty Randolph's Career Journey
(02:55) Katie Sue's Career Highlights
(07:15) Brand Building Insights from Katie Sue
(09:06) Advice for Aspiring Brand Builders
(14:07) Challenges in Brand Building
(22:12) Navigating Community Feedback
(27:46) Favorite Brands and Influences
(29:46) Discussion on K-Pop Demon Hunters
(32:55) Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:18):
Welcome to, we Built This Brand.
I'm your host, as always, Chris Hill, and with me today is my guest host Arusha.
Hi guys.
I'm the host of Conversations with Curiosity.
I'm so excited to be here at Power.
Forward and we have some beautiful guests for you.
We absolutely do.
We've got, um, Katie, Sue, and we've got my, of course this would happen time.
(00:38):
Randolph, like my phone, my iPad always locks and I'm like,
I just need to glance down and see it and then Lord, ready?
Ready?
I'll
start.
Okay,
let's go there.
Chris,
we got some amazing guests with us today.
Yes
we do.
We got Katie Sue, and then we've got Ty Randolph with us as well.
We're really excited to talk to y'all.
Thanks for having us.
Yes.
We're excited to be here.
(00:58):
So, Chris's podcast is all about brand building
and building, uh, and how we build brands.
And both of you have worked for exponential amounts of
amazingly big brands before starting your own, so Absolutely.
So please tell me a little bit about your background for our audience.
I know, but they would like to know.
Okay.
(01:19):
Oh wow.
Um, I started my career out with advertising and brand building,
so, um, sort of classic madmen agencies, uh, publicists, WPP,
but I was always in the digital and emerging media team, so
really redefining how brands connect and convert digitally.
Um, and that kind of naturally led me into tech.
(01:39):
Um.
Sony music internally, um, inside their digital business group where we
architected a platform, uh, that was kind of like a managed service Shopify
before its time, uh, that hosted over 200 individually branded artist stores.
Wow.
And so not only were we building this platform
with like a b. BA, B two, B2C proposition.
(02:01):
Um, but we were responsible for caring for artists, Audi
audiences and brands and partnership with the labels.
Um, that ended up leading me to Meta Long story, um, uh,
and I almost went to Lionsgate when I was leaving Sony.
So Lionsgate called me back a little while later.
Um, with an offer to help them architect a really interesting brand.
(02:22):
They were doing a joint venture with Kevin Hart called Laugh Out Loud.
And uh, I joined that team to take the brand to
market and really helped architect it, grew it, um,
exponentially over the course of about, um, seven years.
And then, um.
Now I'm in the process of launching my own venture, uh, but I'm also
advising, uh, a company that I'm on the board of Rock the Bells, a
(02:45):
local JS company, and we just took them through a rebrand, so Oh wow.
Lots of brand building.
She might be a brand expert.
I'm just saying just,
just a little bit of one.
It sounds til you
hear Katie's Okay.
Let's go Katie.
Um, Katie Sue.
Uh, I think a lot of people probably know me from one of the first
brands I helped build and launch called Dollar Dollar Shave Club.
Um, a lot of people ask me like, oh, you went into selling razors.
(03:05):
That was not the dream.
That is not, absolutely not what I decided to do.
Men's grooming was not like at the top of the list,
but it was such an incredible brand and story.
I was a third person there.
We built it from scratch, did everything.
I mean, I wore many, many hats.
Um, and I like to say the best thing about that job is you got to do everything.
You know, you got to do marketing, digital, social,
(03:26):
way ahead of its time in social media storytelling.
And then from there I fell into media and entertainment.
So early days on the marketing team for Hulu.
Went around town, signed all the distribution deals with all the networks.
Redefine streaming in the early days of what it was, I'm sorry.
And then eventually from there, went to support like full screen auto portfolio,
(03:48):
worked on many properties, um, that are still here today in terms of streaming.
Was recruited by Warner Brothers, went to go help do marketing
and branding for their entire direct to consumer portfolio.
Um, and then worked on DC, took them digital as well.
And then from DC I was pulled in to do one more build in
(04:08):
entertainment and they were like, it's gonna be a short video build.
And, uh, yeah, I took over the HBO now business.
Wow.
And then eventually launched HBO Max Uhhuh,
uh, that is now still called HBO Max.
Um, and so yeah, from there I needed a little bit of
a pallet cleanser, went to kids and family for a bit.
Uh, and then from there I just advised companies, advised CEOs invested.
(04:33):
And, um, I still do that today and a lot of my heart
is in supporting women entrepreneurs and founders.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
That's a great place to be.
Yeah.
I mean, dollar Shave Club, I mean, of course I've heard of them.
I mean, that's,
I hope you weren't a part of the group that
we accidentally neglected in the shipping.
I,
um, thank, thankfully, no, I've, I've, um, as much as I'm
(04:54):
familiar with them, I am very loyal to Gillette, so I know.
Sorry, I can't be here.
I know I can't be here.
I podcast.
Yeah.
But no, I mean, what, what they did with the
Dollar Shave Club is just fascinating to me.
And, um, you know, there's a lot of growth there.
And then obviously with, um, you know, with Ty, with your brand and
(05:16):
everything that you've helped, like, I mean, working with LL Cool
J and Kevin Hart, I mean, those are fascinating, fascinating roles.
So what have you learned from your time in building these brands and building
these things from concepts through, through execution and even through the point
of closing a deal and selling the business and growing it into something bigger.
(05:36):
Sure.
I mean, I think one of the fundamental things that have has
changed over the arc of my career, so starting on the advertising
agency side and really thinking about how brands were built.
Um, you know, sort of like one to many and how.
Sort of eyeballs are centralized and broadcast and you know, sort of like big
(05:56):
me, mass media, we've seen this fundamental shift, the rise of the creator
economy, this decentralization of influence and the rise of community.
And when we look at the new entrant, who would've thought
that, um, when it comes to innovation, you know, companies
like Elf would be looking at Haley Bieber, LVMH should be
um, you know, sort of harkening back Tona or um, a Pharrell.
(06:20):
And I think it's.
Speaks to with the rise of social media, the proliferation of digital,
um, and really the empowerment of the consumer creator, right?
Who has a voice themselves.
Brand building has really been democratized.
And so I think we've been really fortunate to have a front row seat
for all of that and really be on the leading edge of so much of it.
Um, but you've also seen a lot of brand suffer during that time in capturing
(06:43):
share of wallet and, you know, sort of share of heart and share of mind.
Uh, by not tapping into that and so much about what I'm building next.
So what I've been building over the last few years have been creator
centric brands and, you know, in the next move it's how do we take
sort of mass brand building, the rise of the creator economy and
the rise of the new majority that we're just about to talk about
(07:03):
and this new, these new influential communities that have so much
more say, um, you know, over what happens at the point of sale.
Sort of, um, you know, what do the new brand building pyramids look like now?
I, I completely agree.
On the community side, I think a lot has shifted on the
brand and consumer relationship, um, because Ty covered it.
I'll talk about it maybe from the business side.
(07:24):
Okay.
On the business side, I think traditionally, maybe a decade
plus ago, you would have brands really focus on the brand
storytelling and the narrative, like how it makes a consumer feel.
And I think that that worked in a different era, right.
Now you're really seeing this shift in brand tied to
revenue, tied to effectiveness, tied to efficiency,
(07:45):
and it almost swung too far on that side, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because you're starting to see a lot of the heart of the story
and the heart of the brand start to fail, and as that begins to
fail, you start seeing this rise of the creator economy again.
So I. Somewhere in the middle is where creators and brands can
thrive because that is what we as consumers are seeking, right?
(08:06):
When you see a very polished Super Bowl
commercial, it doesn't have the same impact.
As it did maybe like five, six years ago.
Mm-hmm.
But what you do see is maybe if you scroll through and you have a TikTok
video of a creator that you trust, who looks like you, who lives your
life, knows the story that you, you know, grew up from and they're telling
(08:26):
you about a product that they used, suddenly you feel more inclined.
Buy that, right?
So I think that there's just a shift on the definition of branding
and the polished nature of it and how people convert based on that.
And so as long as you pay attention to brand narrative, to your operating model,
to your business model, to your revenue, and you think about those margins
(08:47):
throughout, then your consumer relationship also benefits from it as well.
So we're seeing this democratization of up brands, as you called
it, and that's a beautiful thing for those who are out there who are
considering starting a brand or in the middle of building a brand.
What would be your one to three pieces of
(09:09):
advice on how you break through the noise?
Because now with that democratization, we have an influx of brands
and you know, our attention spans are getting shorter and shorter.
And so what is a key piece of advice that you would give
to someone who's looking to start out a brand or who is
building a brand right now to really break through that noise?
(09:32):
You know, I, I think a few things.
Um, you know, one, because everyone has access to a microphone or a megaphone,
I think there can be a temptation to try to go mass quickly, but I really
believe that specificity and authenticity is more important than ever, and.
So it's really find your tribe and find your niche.
There is, um, you know, I believe the path to sort of
(09:54):
like universal resonance is through hyper specificity.
And if you look at the brands that are doing the best and that
are growing the fastest, they have like landed and expanded.
They found a core group, a community, um, advocators.
You know, sort of fanatics almost, um, about not just
the brand, but the philosophy and the lifestyle and
the ethos, and you let them carry the water for you.
(10:16):
So I think that's number one.
Sort of like, be hyper-specific.
The other piece is really know your audience.
I mean, I'm, I'm almost.
Overwhelmed by how much data that the average consumer has on
social media now that we as marketers used to clamor for before.
And so if you're connecting across any platform, really
look into those insights and look into that real time
feedback loop and take action based on those insights.
(10:39):
Um, and then the other piece is, you know, I say this, whether
we're talking to brand builders or creators today, you have to
be, you know, one part artist, one part scientist, you know,
and so I think that marriage of art and science is really.
Where, um, there has to be this sort of scientific model approach
like test, learn, iterate really fast and try something new.
And so that lab like behavior, um, will get you pretty
(11:02):
far very fast if you're able to, to implement that.
That's great advice.
I would say definitely know your audience.
You know, oftentimes when you wanna build a brand, you think that just because
you want it and that you see the demand for it, that people feel the same way.
But knowing your audience also means you have to listen to your audience.
So being able to iterate on your product, um, iterate on your
(11:24):
company and your offering pretty quickly is very important.
Like, speed to market is one thing, but being able to
prototype at the pace that the market is moving and the
the way that your audience demands it, I think that is.
Probably what sets you apart?
Um, and also like consistency.
I think the part that is very challenging is a lot of companies and a lot of
new founders give up when they don't see that hockey stick growth immediately.
(11:48):
Most people don't realize that like, you know, God, even in
the entertainment industry, when you have people announce
like breakout star, that star has been grinding for decades.
Right?
But you don't know the projects that that person has been in.
Yeah.
The same is true for founders and companies.
Mm-hmm.
Consistency is key.
So like being out there, listening to your audience, iterating the
(12:09):
product, and then in addition to that, consistently providing value,
like going on your TikTok live shop or using your e-comm buttons
and platforms and like optimizing your website, leveraging AI as
a tool, like constantly improving that experience puts you at.
The front and center.
And then I think the other thing is just hire people smarter than you.
(12:30):
I mean, it's just not talked about enough.
I think a lot of times founders can have a mentality where,
because you're starting out, you wanna do everything because you
know the audience, you know the product, you know the demand,
but the reality is you get stretched thin very, very fast.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the biggest issues I have heard in
a lot of advisory, you know, um, practices is.
(12:52):
A founder, when they hit success, that's when things get really hard, right?
So when you hit success, you wanna be able to 10 x that pretty quickly.
And if you don't surround yourself with the right type of, um,
defensive mode and offensive mode of people smarter than you
in certain areas, you're scrambling in that moment to do that.
And that's where sometimes the, the path.
(13:13):
Mm-hmm.
Breaks where you have founders who become incredibly
successful because they've sort of optimized for scale
and founders who still try to do everything themselves.
Mm-hmm.
And end up doing everything maybe not quite well enough.
Right.
So you just have to, you have to be prepared
when it's like opportunity meets preparation.
Right.
I think that that's like very key.
(13:35):
I, I would agree.
I mean, I've seen that with like the clients we produce podcasts for, like
the ones that are prepared to go viral, like they've been going at it for
a while and then they finally see that swell of growth as a result of it.
I mean, it definitely is a matter of the hard work that they've
put in for the 60 or a hundred plus episodes they've done
prior to that, that gets them where they are and not the um.
(13:58):
You know, and not the, the massive, you know,
go going viral overnight campaign type of thing.
So yeah, I think you're right there.
Absolutely.
Um, well, talking about brands, talking about growth in
brands, um, what are some of the, um, the challenges as we
look towards, you know, maybe the next year to five years?
Like what do you see as the challenges for growing communities in branding?
(14:24):
Yeah, I think some of those same, um, opportunities also present challenges.
You were just talking about the, the innovation clip.
It's accelerated so significantly that, you know, before we could put a campaign
in the market, you could have an idea about where you wanted your brand to go.
And, you know, we planned in, you know,
fiscal years and you know, at least quarters.
(14:45):
And now there's this sort of like real time
innovation that really requires, um, a much more.
Active posture and a much more proactive and, and often reactive posture.
And so I just think that, um, the, the level of agility
and sort of, um, entrepreneurial athleticism that's
required today, um, is, is just, uh, unprecedented.
(15:07):
Right.
And I also think when we talk about the democratization and
the fragmentation of brand building, um, sure that's a plus.
There's a opportunity for lots more entrants, but the then.
Getting to scale becomes a lot more challenging because there are only so many
eyeballs and there's so many times in the day and you know, there's only, you
know, sort of like so much disposable income and so you're re and we live in
(15:30):
an attention economy where you're competing with everything and everywhere.
All the time.
And so all at once.
And so I think that, and again, it goes
kind of back to that athleticism, so sure.
It's easier to get to a consumer.
It's easier to get a product to market.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, you can launch a podcast, you
can, you know, it's easier to make content now.
(15:51):
Yeah.
But to get those things to scale the same tools that
make it easier, make it easier for everyone else.
And so differentiating, um, and growing and maintaining and
sustaining attention do become more challenging in this environment.
Oh yeah.
It's definitely more of a slog to get content out, even like you
think, okay, well we're just gonna post to all the platforms and
(16:11):
even that takes up time just to get your marketing out there.
I would say the two things that are the greatest challenges I see is saturation.
Mm-hmm.
And globalization.
And I think saturation is exactly what Ty was mentioning, right?
If you just look at the domestic market.
Share of wallet is a very specific size, right?
The disposable income of a target audience
(16:31):
that you're going after is quite set, right?
So you have a ceiling and a saturation point.
So if you're launching a business in a company and you're not thinking
global, then you're already missing what your success means on the other side.
And as somebody who like advises on transactions, right?
Like if you miss that part of it, you're really
capping yourself and your ability to grow, right?
(16:51):
So you're kind of going out the gate with this
great idea, this great product, this great company.
With a. Top of the market like ceiling.
Yeah.
So what does that mean?
Right?
That's not enough.
So saturation is definitely a point to consider globalization
is just because with technology, with ai, with everything
happening, I mean, you definitely see it now, right?
The geopolitical landscape has a macro effect on how we produce products.
(17:18):
Um, in addition to that, that's the same for digital products too, right?
You are in a constant battle of what territory, what.
Area to launch in what market is the next place to go so
that you have the opportunity for scale and new audiences,
but you're also not in conflict with anything that could.
Hurt your business.
I mean, not to get into, you know, anything that was like historic but
(17:40):
tie in, or we're just talking about like COVID era and catching up.
But COVID era was a perfect like equalizer for that.
Yeah.
Because the global supply chain was decimated overnight.
So many companies who typically had successful
businesses didn't really have a backup plan, right?
Mm-hmm.
Now that you've progressed a couple years after that,
many people have thought through global supply chain.
(18:01):
But now you're talking about an accelerated pace of technology.
So what are we doing and what are founders doing to combat that,
prepare for that, and also think about scale in light of all of that,
I think is a really great challenge that isn't often discussed enough.
We're at Power Forward today, and so a lot of the focus is on that intersection.
Tech with all these different businesses that we're here talking
(18:23):
about, if you were going to point to a founder, you were advising
and say, uh, because a lot of times when, when tech, every time
tech booms, I think for founders there's a bit of a scramble effect
where it's, it's so much is happening and where do I pay attention?
And so what's a, what is a either a. Place that you can point
to or a piece of advice to kind of break through that noise.
(18:45):
When you look at the emergence of tech and how it affects
each of these brands, where would you tell founders to
kind of focus to make sure that they're staying, um, ahead?
Or with the curve.
Mm-hmm.
And at the same time, not drowning in the noise that
sometimes happens when these tech explosions happen.
I, I feel very strongly about this one.
(19:06):
I mean, I will say like, you have to
relentlessly focus on the thing you're selling.
Right, because bear markets make incredible companies, so the polarizing
view is a lot of people get very scared in these types of markets, right?
Capital is restrained, cost of capital is
high, and not every company is gonna succeed.
These are the best markets to build companies, right?
(19:26):
If you have an idea and people vote with their money, that idea is gonna win.
The question is, what is that idea?
And so the biggest trap most founders fall into during these
markets is if they start to see success on one side, they think,
oh, I should go and launch those three other companion products.
It's like, no, just focus on the one thing, get exceptionally good at it.
(19:49):
Have that be your core business until it can fund your next thing.
'cause then you're going into multiples, then you're really
thinking about the value of the company in the long term.
But yeah, I, I. I think this is like, this is like the kingmaker era, right?
If you can carve out like X percentage of any industry in any
company today, you could technically, you could do anything.
(20:10):
You could do anything, right?
Then if you think about historically, some of the best founders and
best companies that we use today still we're founded in bear markets.
Yeah, so.
Anything is possible, but diversification
probably not the right time to do that.
It's more about focus, getting really good at it, and then having a strong
enough foundation that when the opportunity presents itself, then you diversify.
(20:33):
And the other, you know, I would just add
to that, that whatever industry you're in.
AI is going to disrupt and transform it.
And so you should be actively asking yourself even as you are
putting together your pitch deck, 'cause you're out to your investors
and founders as you're reporting to your current board, whatever,
wherever you are in your cycle, you should be actively not just.
(20:53):
Planning for that disruption, but preempting and leaning into it.
Right?
So thinking about how you can leverage, um, and, and, and that idea prepared.
'cause before it used to be will we be disrupted and at, at what level?
And so when the innovation clip accelerates, um, the,
the staying power of brands essentially decreases.
So what I mean by that is, you know, you look at how long radio
(21:16):
or television was like the dominant form of like entertainment.
So these had.
Decades long, you know, sort of like periods of, um, dominance.
And now that innovation clip you're seeing, you know, companies,
the cycle, the life cycle for companies who, unless they are
literally steeped in innovation as a business model, right, and
constantly disrupting themselves, they become obsolete a lot faster.
(21:38):
And so I would prepare for that disruption
and prepare to be continually disrupted.
Disrupt it and then have an orientation of being perpetually disruptive.
And so I, I would, again, it's more of this sort of
like, stay on your feet model now it's no longer sit
back in the chair and let's see what's gonna happen.
Let's, at the top of the boardroom, those days are gone.
(22:02):
What you mean?
That is, that is crazy.
So some something that's something that I'm thinking
of as we're talking about community and stuff.
Do you all ever find the community to be wrong?
Hmm.
That's a hard question.
I know, but like, have you ever found yourself in a situation where like.
The community doesn't know what they're talking about here.
(22:24):
They're telling us something, and I'm not saying like from an arrogant
standpoint that you eventually come around on, but like how do you
defend your brand or your vision when you're trying to be hyper-specific
and you have to fight the community, so to speak, within that.
You know, I wouldn't say that the community is wrong,
but I would say that you can misread a signal, right?
(22:46):
And I, and I would say you don't take a signal as, um,
a mandate, you know, so you may have a community that.
You know, giving you a specific reaction or feedback
loop to a product experience or you know, to an
experience itself or you know, to a leader in a company.
It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to throw the baby out
(23:08):
with the bath water, but I think you take that into account, you
know, if you're sitting around and the same way you would, if you're
sitting around, you think about your community as stakeholders, and
if you're sitting, if you're having an all hands and you're talking
to your team, or if you're sitting around a boardroom and you have.
Someone who dissents, you're gonna say like,
okay, that's a valuable piece of feedback.
I should take it.
But it's not necessarily representative of the whole.
Or you could have a lot of folks giving you information, but they may not
(23:29):
have the context, for instance, of like what your p and l looks like, so
that they don't understand why you're making that particular decision.
So I think we have to take these signals
and this feedback is valuable and valid.
You know, like, you know, my mom would
always say, if it's real to you, it's real.
So it's like you're having that.
Experience, you know, with, with, with my brand, with my business,
you know, whether you're an employee, whether you're a board member,
(23:51):
stakeholder, investor, if you're a follower on social media, it's real.
But it doesn't necessarily mean that that's the thing that I have to action.
Yeah.
In isolation, that exact piece of feedback.
And I think that a lot of brands then find themselves
in Hyperreactive states because it's a very scary
place to be publicly exposed and having a conversation.
(24:12):
But we also see the attention span of audiences, and we know that
in many of these cases, there'll be a piece of feedback and it'll
be very rich in charge, and then it's sort of like onto the next.
And I think the, the idea is how do you create a flexible
feedback loop so that you can take that in, action
it, and constantly improve and be transparent, right?
(24:32):
Like, I think if, if your brand knows that you're listening and that you're
taking that feedback, if, if your audience knows that you're listening,
you're taking that feedback into account, they're more likely to give grace,
right?
I'd also say it depends on your conviction
and what your long-term plan is, right?
Um, I tend to ingest all feedback as data.
Uh, and if the data gets to a point of critical mass,
(24:55):
then you almost as a person developing a product, whatever
your offering may be, you almost have to reevaluate.
Does this make sense?
But I agree with Ty.
I mean, like, you can't be in a place where
you're constantly iterating based on every.
Tweet comments, social media, video, you see, because if you
do, you inevitably dilute the quality of your offering and I
(25:16):
think you start to lose picture of your longer term roadmap.
Right.
And you
lose some sleep.
Yeah.
And, and strong brands solicit strong reactions, negative and positive, right?
So I think if you are going to prepare to have a brand that's very well loved.
That same brand maybe also, um, you know, polarizing Exactly in some audiences.
So I think if you are a brand that is, um, you know, eliciting emotion from
(25:40):
your audience, you should expect there to be reactions, you know, on both sides.
Again, take the feedback in, you action it, but I, I don't think it's,
tell me a brand today who isn't getting signals that says there's something
serious that you need to change, or, I'm having a reaction to that.
And so the idea is, are you resonating with your core?
You know, are you unnecessarily polarizing?
(26:01):
And, and I don't think that's just, you ask about feedback in general.
I don't think that's just for social media.
I think it's in your boardroom.
I think it's, you know, the folks who are on your cap table,
all of those folks, you have to, you know, digest that feedback
well.
And one other thing I'll add to that too, is.
Any feedback if that strong is positive, right?
That means there is enough of your core audience
(26:21):
paying attention to what your brand is doing.
Yeah.
And so that in itself is a very positive thing, right?
You can, there are a ton of tactics you can deploy, right?
You can find focus groups, you can evaluate your product, you can
do a bunch of different things to evaluate what that signal is.
But generally speaking.
If you get a visceral reaction, positive or
negative, that means it's hitting something right?
(26:44):
So I would still take it as a positive sign.
What you do as a founder though, sort of sets the tone for how you
run a company and how you manage your investors and your board.
And so knowing how you pivot in those moments and
if you pivot at all is also a very important thing.
Understanding those core values and, and what matters
to you as a founder, I think is important there.
(27:06):
And yeah, I mean that's what I was really curious about.
'cause it is very challenging, especially for smaller businesses
and startups, when everybody has an opinion on what you should
do with this technology, this idea, this concept, whatever it is.
And it just puts you in this position to go,
well, I should just be everything to everybody.
I mean, we'll just be, we all know how
that goes.
(27:27):
That'll, that'll fix everything.
Um, but yeah, that's, that I think is the inverse of the challenge with
all the great community feedback you can get that can help you improve.
So yeah.
Thank you for that.
That's awesome.
Um, well this has been a great conversation.
I've really, really enjoyed it.
Um, Ty and Katie, thank you both for coming on.
Thank you.
Um, thank you.
Before we wrap.
I'd like to ask this one last question, um,
(27:49):
which is, which brand do you admire the most?
And, and when I say that, it's like in, in terms of like influencing
even you as a leader, I can't wait to hear you in your decisions.
So
this is so hard.
That's like picking a
baby.
Yeah, I know.
It doesn't have
to be your favorite, that's be one of yours.
It's just
like a brand you admire.
Yeah.
Uh,
something that's been influential in your decision making or,
(28:12):
and I are like, Hmm,
I know that's really like, how do you change?
They're in it, Chris.
They're in it.
I know.
You know, I, I, this, I won't say which brand I admire the most,
but because it's just top of mind, we were just talking about it.
What I find the, the elf acquisition of Road Yeah.
Really compelling was at this moment in time, Uhhuh because um, you
(28:34):
know, I think it was a company who's getting it right already, who went
out and said like, how do we disrupt ourselves and how do we look from.
At non-traditional innovation sources and how do we not just bet
on this person, but how do we bet on this audience that is another
audience that is akin to ours and we have to proactively outreach.
So they didn't do it on the back foot?
(28:55):
They do.
They did it after, I think they had had experienced something crazy.
I don't remember how many consecutive quarters
of growth they've experienced and co their CMO.
Brilliant.
But the idea that they would, you know, go out
and proactively say, this means something for us.
And I think, you know, and it's a testament to road how fast that
brand has grown by being hyper-specific, creating a lifestyle.
(29:16):
And you know, while it's a celebrity helm brand, I
think there's so many takeaways that like big Behe.
You know, brand holding companies and you know, sort of like baby
brands that are just starting can learn from both of those examples.
So it's not the one, I, I won't say who I admire the
most, but I found that partnership very admirable.
Okay.
I am, I'm gonna go even a different direction and I will
(29:37):
say not a brand that is a traditional consumer brand.
I will pick an IP brand because we all also came from the entertainment world.
I am absolutely obsessed with K-Pop demon hunters.
Yeah.
Oh
my gosh.
And number one, it's incredible.
Like my son can't stop singing the songs.
It is the only thing that plays in the car.
(29:58):
And the thing that's appealing about it is not only is the IP incredibly.
Attractive and appealing to a multi-generational household.
Uhhuh.
It also has so many legs for sequels, prequels, product, consumer products.
Um, you're talking about a very rich universe that has suddenly been created,
exploded overnight, global, tapped into K-pop, tapped into music, tapped into
(30:21):
pop culture, and has defined this next chapter for a young adult audience.
Think of how many children watch that.
Mm-hmm.
And that has become a core memory.
And for the rest of.
All of us parents, we will be buying those toys and products.
Right.
So to me, I feel like if you can generate a brand or an ip Yeah.
That has that longstanding effect, that hits that many notes
(30:44):
and that many genres, I mean, that's incredible, right?
Like if you think about it, think about that pitch.
It's about.
Like demon hunters who are K-pop bands saving the world.
Right.
I know
if I, if Ty and I were to go and pitch that today, we would, we'd be great.
But like still, but still needs to be like that.
Yes.
But the fact that it landed and it worked to me,
(31:07):
I feel like that's what brands are supposed to do.
They're supposed to affect you, not just emotionally.
There's a lasting impact and you vote with it and you pay for it.
Like.
I know I'm gonna buy a lot of that now.
I mean, I already have those songs living
in my head wrench absolutely free right now.
Right?
Absolutely.
So that to me is an incredible universe that just
got created hyper relevant and all of us are in it.
(31:29):
Like that moment I said that, all of us knew exactly what that was.
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
That is a powerful brand in ip.
I,
I just, um, showed my wife the trailer the other night.
'cause it was our first night in a long time
to just sit down and watch something together.
And I was like.
I know probably not tonight when you have a billion other things to
finish, but check out this trailer and the minute we got through it, the.
(31:49):
She was just like, that's amazing.
Like, yeah,
they did job.
My wife and I were like, okay, when are
we gonna watch this movie?
Yeah.
So,
yeah, it's, it's a, it's a really cool brand and it has
been crazy to see the zeitgeist and how fast it's gotten.
One of my favorite musicians, I shouldn't say favorite, I really enjoy his
music, so I don't wanna like downplay now that I've said it, but baby, no money.
His big thing on TikTok has been cost playing.
(32:12):
And so he started to coplay, he did a gender bend coplay for, for.
The demon hunter stuff and yeah, it's crazy.
Okay.
And tap
and tapping into all those, all those
verticals and getting them when they're young.
Exactly.
So brilliant.
You've old school Disney moves.
Exactly.
And that's exactly it, right?
The playbook could, could have been done before.
Mm-hmm.
But how they executed it was flawless.
(32:33):
Like if you look at the number of wigs that are being
created uhhuh, these different revenue streams and businesses
popping off of it that aren't even wholly owned by Netflix.
Right.
Like.
I'm blown away.
That's the kind of thing that all of us wanna do.
If we can build a brand like that, that'd be powerful.
We should work on that.
We should look.
There's an elf crossover there too, somewhere.
(32:53):
Kpop
K-Pop, vampire Slayers.
Coming next.
Guys, thank you so much for being with us today.
So much for having us, so much for coming
on.
Incredible.
Thank you.
All right.
Welcome to, we Built This Brand.
I'm your host, as always, Chris Hill, and with me today is my guest host Arusha.
Hi guys.
I'm the host of Conversations with Curiosity.
I'm so excited to be here at Power.
Forward and we have some beautiful guests for you.
We absolutely do.
We've got, um, Katie, Sue, and we've got my, of course this would happen time.
(00:38):
Randolph, like my phone, my iPad always locks and I'm like,
I just need to glance down and see it and then Lord, ready?
Ready?
I'll
start.
Okay,
let's go there.
Chris,
we got some amazing guests with us today.
Yes
we do.
We got Katie Sue, and then we've got Ty Randolph with us as well.
We're really excited to talk to y'all.
Thanks for having us.
Yes.
We're excited to be here.
(00:58):
So, Chris's podcast is all about brand building
and building, uh, and how we build brands.
And both of you have worked for exponential amounts of
amazingly big brands before starting your own, so Absolutely.
So please tell me a little bit about your background for our audience.
I know, but they would like to know.
Okay.
(01:19):
Oh wow.
Um, I started my career out with advertising and brand building,
so, um, sort of classic madmen agencies, uh, publicists, WPP,
but I was always in the digital and emerging media team, so
really redefining how brands connect and convert digitally.
Um, and that kind of naturally led me into tech.
(01:39):
Um.
Sony music internally, um, inside their digital business group where we
architected a platform, uh, that was kind of like a managed service Shopify
before its time, uh, that hosted over 200 individually branded artist stores.
Wow.
And so not only were we building this platform
with like a b. BA, B two, B2C proposition.
(02:01):
Um, but we were responsible for caring for artists, Audi
audiences and brands and partnership with the labels.
Um, that ended up leading me to Meta Long story, um, uh,
and I almost went to Lionsgate when I was leaving Sony.
So Lionsgate called me back a little while later.
Um, with an offer to help them architect a really interesting brand.
(02:22):
They were doing a joint venture with Kevin Hart called Laugh Out Loud.
And uh, I joined that team to take the brand to
market and really helped architect it, grew it, um,
exponentially over the course of about, um, seven years.
And then, um.
Now I'm in the process of launching my own venture, uh, but I'm also
advising, uh, a company that I'm on the board of Rock the Bells, a
(02:45):
local JS company, and we just took them through a rebrand, so Oh wow.
Lots of brand building.
She might be a brand expert.
I'm just saying just,
just a little bit of one.
It sounds til you
hear Katie's Okay.
Let's go Katie.
Um, Katie Sue.
Uh, I think a lot of people probably know me from one of the first
brands I helped build and launch called Dollar Dollar Shave Club.
Um, a lot of people ask me like, oh, you went into selling razors.
(03:05):
That was not the dream.
That is not, absolutely not what I decided to do.
Men's grooming was not like at the top of the list,
but it was such an incredible brand and story.
I was a third person there.
We built it from scratch, did everything.
I mean, I wore many, many hats.
Um, and I like to say the best thing about that job is you got to do everything.
You know, you got to do marketing, digital, social,
(03:26):
way ahead of its time in social media storytelling.
And then from there I fell into media and entertainment.
So early days on the marketing team for Hulu.
Went around town, signed all the distribution deals with all the networks.
Redefine streaming in the early days of what it was, I'm sorry.
And then eventually from there, went to support like full screen auto portfolio,
(03:48):
worked on many properties, um, that are still here today in terms of streaming.
Was recruited by Warner Brothers, went to go help do marketing
and branding for their entire direct to consumer portfolio.
Um, and then worked on DC, took them digital as well.
And then from DC I was pulled in to do one more build in
(04:08):
entertainment and they were like, it's gonna be a short video build.
And, uh, yeah, I took over the HBO now business.
Wow.
And then eventually launched HBO Max Uhhuh,
uh, that is now still called HBO Max.
Um, and so yeah, from there I needed a little bit of
a pallet cleanser, went to kids and family for a bit.
Uh, and then from there I just advised companies, advised CEOs invested.
(04:33):
And, um, I still do that today and a lot of my heart
is in supporting women entrepreneurs and founders.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
That's a great place to be.
Yeah.
I mean, dollar Shave Club, I mean, of course I've heard of them.
I mean, that's,
I hope you weren't a part of the group that
we accidentally neglected in the shipping.
I,
um, thank, thankfully, no, I've, I've, um, as much as I'm
(04:54):
familiar with them, I am very loyal to Gillette, so I know.
Sorry, I can't be here.
I know I can't be here.
I podcast.
Yeah.
But no, I mean, what, what they did with the
Dollar Shave Club is just fascinating to me.
And, um, you know, there's a lot of growth there.
And then obviously with, um, you know, with Ty, with your brand and
(05:16):
everything that you've helped, like, I mean, working with LL Cool
J and Kevin Hart, I mean, those are fascinating, fascinating roles.
So what have you learned from your time in building these brands and building
these things from concepts through, through execution and even through the point
of closing a deal and selling the business and growing it into something bigger.
(05:36):
Sure.
I mean, I think one of the fundamental things that have has
changed over the arc of my career, so starting on the advertising
agency side and really thinking about how brands were built.
Um, you know, sort of like one to many and how.
Sort of eyeballs are centralized and broadcast and you know, sort of like big
(05:56):
me, mass media, we've seen this fundamental shift, the rise of the creator
economy, this decentralization of influence and the rise of community.
And when we look at the new entrant, who would've thought
that, um, when it comes to innovation, you know, companies
like Elf would be looking at Haley Bieber, LVMH should be
um, you know, sort of harkening back Tona or um, a Pharrell.
(06:20):
And I think it's.
Speaks to with the rise of social media, the proliferation of digital,
um, and really the empowerment of the consumer creator, right?
Who has a voice themselves.
Brand building has really been democratized.
And so I think we've been really fortunate to have a front row seat
for all of that and really be on the leading edge of so much of it.
Um, but you've also seen a lot of brand suffer during that time in capturing
(06:43):
share of wallet and, you know, sort of share of heart and share of mind.
Uh, by not tapping into that and so much about what I'm building next.
So what I've been building over the last few years have been creator
centric brands and, you know, in the next move it's how do we take
sort of mass brand building, the rise of the creator economy and
the rise of the new majority that we're just about to talk about
(07:03):
and this new, these new influential communities that have so much
more say, um, you know, over what happens at the point of sale.
Sort of, um, you know, what do the new brand building pyramids look like now?
I, I completely agree.
On the community side, I think a lot has shifted on the
brand and consumer relationship, um, because Ty covered it.
I'll talk about it maybe from the business side.
(07:24):
Okay.
On the business side, I think traditionally, maybe a decade
plus ago, you would have brands really focus on the brand
storytelling and the narrative, like how it makes a consumer feel.
And I think that that worked in a different era, right.
Now you're really seeing this shift in brand tied to
revenue, tied to effectiveness, tied to efficiency,
(07:45):
and it almost swung too far on that side, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because you're starting to see a lot of the heart of the story
and the heart of the brand start to fail, and as that begins to
fail, you start seeing this rise of the creator economy again.
So I. Somewhere in the middle is where creators and brands can
thrive because that is what we as consumers are seeking, right?
(08:06):
When you see a very polished Super Bowl
commercial, it doesn't have the same impact.
As it did maybe like five, six years ago.
Mm-hmm.
But what you do see is maybe if you scroll through and you have a TikTok
video of a creator that you trust, who looks like you, who lives your
life, knows the story that you, you know, grew up from and they're telling
(08:26):
you about a product that they used, suddenly you feel more inclined.
Buy that, right?
So I think that there's just a shift on the definition of branding
and the polished nature of it and how people convert based on that.
And so as long as you pay attention to brand narrative, to your operating model,
to your business model, to your revenue, and you think about those margins
(08:47):
throughout, then your consumer relationship also benefits from it as well.
So we're seeing this democratization of up brands, as you called
it, and that's a beautiful thing for those who are out there who are
considering starting a brand or in the middle of building a brand.
What would be your one to three pieces of
(09:09):
advice on how you break through the noise?
Because now with that democratization, we have an influx of brands
and you know, our attention spans are getting shorter and shorter.
And so what is a key piece of advice that you would give
to someone who's looking to start out a brand or who is
building a brand right now to really break through that noise?
(09:32):
You know, I, I think a few things.
Um, you know, one, because everyone has access to a microphone or a megaphone,
I think there can be a temptation to try to go mass quickly, but I really
believe that specificity and authenticity is more important than ever, and.
So it's really find your tribe and find your niche.
There is, um, you know, I believe the path to sort of
(09:54):
like universal resonance is through hyper specificity.
And if you look at the brands that are doing the best and that
are growing the fastest, they have like landed and expanded.
They found a core group, a community, um, advocators.
You know, sort of fanatics almost, um, about not just
the brand, but the philosophy and the lifestyle and
the ethos, and you let them carry the water for you.
(10:16):
So I think that's number one.
Sort of like, be hyper-specific.
The other piece is really know your audience.
I mean, I'm, I'm almost.
Overwhelmed by how much data that the average consumer has on
social media now that we as marketers used to clamor for before.
And so if you're connecting across any platform, really
look into those insights and look into that real time
feedback loop and take action based on those insights.
(10:39):
Um, and then the other piece is, you know, I say this, whether
we're talking to brand builders or creators today, you have to
be, you know, one part artist, one part scientist, you know,
and so I think that marriage of art and science is really.
Where, um, there has to be this sort of scientific model approach
like test, learn, iterate really fast and try something new.
And so that lab like behavior, um, will get you pretty
(11:02):
far very fast if you're able to, to implement that.
That's great advice.
I would say definitely know your audience.
You know, oftentimes when you wanna build a brand, you think that just because
you want it and that you see the demand for it, that people feel the same way.
But knowing your audience also means you have to listen to your audience.
So being able to iterate on your product, um, iterate on your
(11:24):
company and your offering pretty quickly is very important.
Like, speed to market is one thing, but being able to
prototype at the pace that the market is moving and the
the way that your audience demands it, I think that is.
Probably what sets you apart?
Um, and also like consistency.
I think the part that is very challenging is a lot of companies and a lot of
new founders give up when they don't see that hockey stick growth immediately.
(11:48):
Most people don't realize that like, you know, God, even in
the entertainment industry, when you have people announce
like breakout star, that star has been grinding for decades.
Right?
But you don't know the projects that that person has been in.
Yeah.
The same is true for founders and companies.
Mm-hmm.
Consistency is key.
So like being out there, listening to your audience, iterating the
(12:09):
product, and then in addition to that, consistently providing value,
like going on your TikTok live shop or using your e-comm buttons
and platforms and like optimizing your website, leveraging AI as
a tool, like constantly improving that experience puts you at.
The front and center.
And then I think the other thing is just hire people smarter than you.
(12:30):
I mean, it's just not talked about enough.
I think a lot of times founders can have a mentality where,
because you're starting out, you wanna do everything because you
know the audience, you know the product, you know the demand,
but the reality is you get stretched thin very, very fast.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the biggest issues I have heard in
a lot of advisory, you know, um, practices is.
(12:52):
A founder, when they hit success, that's when things get really hard, right?
So when you hit success, you wanna be able to 10 x that pretty quickly.
And if you don't surround yourself with the right type of, um,
defensive mode and offensive mode of people smarter than you
in certain areas, you're scrambling in that moment to do that.
And that's where sometimes the, the path.
(13:13):
Mm-hmm.
Breaks where you have founders who become incredibly
successful because they've sort of optimized for scale
and founders who still try to do everything themselves.
Mm-hmm.
And end up doing everything maybe not quite well enough.
Right.
So you just have to, you have to be prepared
when it's like opportunity meets preparation.
Right.
I think that that's like very key.
(13:35):
I, I would agree.
I mean, I've seen that with like the clients we produce podcasts for, like
the ones that are prepared to go viral, like they've been going at it for
a while and then they finally see that swell of growth as a result of it.
I mean, it definitely is a matter of the hard work that they've
put in for the 60 or a hundred plus episodes they've done
prior to that, that gets them where they are and not the um.
(13:58):
You know, and not the, the massive, you know,
go going viral overnight campaign type of thing.
So yeah, I think you're right there.
Absolutely.
Um, well, talking about brands, talking about growth in
brands, um, what are some of the, um, the challenges as we
look towards, you know, maybe the next year to five years?
Like what do you see as the challenges for growing communities in branding?
(14:24):
Yeah, I think some of those same, um, opportunities also present challenges.
You were just talking about the, the innovation clip.
It's accelerated so significantly that, you know, before we could put a campaign
in the market, you could have an idea about where you wanted your brand to go.
And, you know, we planned in, you know,
fiscal years and you know, at least quarters.
(14:45):
And now there's this sort of like real time
innovation that really requires, um, a much more.
Active posture and a much more proactive and, and often reactive posture.
And so I just think that, um, the, the level of agility
and sort of, um, entrepreneurial athleticism that's
required today, um, is, is just, uh, unprecedented.
(15:07):
Right.
And I also think when we talk about the democratization and
the fragmentation of brand building, um, sure that's a plus.
There's a opportunity for lots more entrants, but the then.
Getting to scale becomes a lot more challenging because there are only so many
eyeballs and there's so many times in the day and you know, there's only, you
know, sort of like so much disposable income and so you're re and we live in
(15:30):
an attention economy where you're competing with everything and everywhere.
All the time.
And so all at once.
And so I think that, and again, it goes
kind of back to that athleticism, so sure.
It's easier to get to a consumer.
It's easier to get a product to market.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, you can launch a podcast, you
can, you know, it's easier to make content now.
(15:51):
Yeah.
But to get those things to scale the same tools that
make it easier, make it easier for everyone else.
And so differentiating, um, and growing and maintaining and
sustaining attention do become more challenging in this environment.
Oh yeah.
It's definitely more of a slog to get content out, even like you
think, okay, well we're just gonna post to all the platforms and
(16:11):
even that takes up time just to get your marketing out there.
I would say the two things that are the greatest challenges I see is saturation.
Mm-hmm.
And globalization.
And I think saturation is exactly what Ty was mentioning, right?
If you just look at the domestic market.
Share of wallet is a very specific size, right?
The disposable income of a target audience
(16:31):
that you're going after is quite set, right?
So you have a ceiling and a saturation point.
So if you're launching a business in a company and you're not thinking
global, then you're already missing what your success means on the other side.
And as somebody who like advises on transactions, right?
Like if you miss that part of it, you're really
capping yourself and your ability to grow, right?
(16:51):
So you're kind of going out the gate with this
great idea, this great product, this great company.
With a. Top of the market like ceiling.
Yeah.
So what does that mean?
Right?
That's not enough.
So saturation is definitely a point to consider globalization
is just because with technology, with ai, with everything
happening, I mean, you definitely see it now, right?
The geopolitical landscape has a macro effect on how we produce products.
(17:18):
Um, in addition to that, that's the same for digital products too, right?
You are in a constant battle of what territory, what.
Area to launch in what market is the next place to go so
that you have the opportunity for scale and new audiences,
but you're also not in conflict with anything that could.
Hurt your business.
I mean, not to get into, you know, anything that was like historic but
(17:40):
tie in, or we're just talking about like COVID era and catching up.
But COVID era was a perfect like equalizer for that.
Yeah.
Because the global supply chain was decimated overnight.
So many companies who typically had successful
businesses didn't really have a backup plan, right?
Mm-hmm.
Now that you've progressed a couple years after that,
many people have thought through global supply chain.
(18:01):
But now you're talking about an accelerated pace of technology.
So what are we doing and what are founders doing to combat that,
prepare for that, and also think about scale in light of all of that,
I think is a really great challenge that isn't often discussed enough.
We're at Power Forward today, and so a lot of the focus is on that intersection.
Tech with all these different businesses that we're here talking
(18:23):
about, if you were going to point to a founder, you were advising
and say, uh, because a lot of times when, when tech, every time
tech booms, I think for founders there's a bit of a scramble effect
where it's, it's so much is happening and where do I pay attention?
And so what's a, what is a either a. Place that you can point
to or a piece of advice to kind of break through that noise.
(18:45):
When you look at the emergence of tech and how it affects
each of these brands, where would you tell founders to
kind of focus to make sure that they're staying, um, ahead?
Or with the curve.
Mm-hmm.
And at the same time, not drowning in the noise that
sometimes happens when these tech explosions happen.
I, I feel very strongly about this one.
(19:06):
I mean, I will say like, you have to
relentlessly focus on the thing you're selling.
Right, because bear markets make incredible companies, so the polarizing
view is a lot of people get very scared in these types of markets, right?
Capital is restrained, cost of capital is
high, and not every company is gonna succeed.
These are the best markets to build companies, right?
(19:26):
If you have an idea and people vote with their money, that idea is gonna win.
The question is, what is that idea?
And so the biggest trap most founders fall into during these
markets is if they start to see success on one side, they think,
oh, I should go and launch those three other companion products.
It's like, no, just focus on the one thing, get exceptionally good at it.
(19:49):
Have that be your core business until it can fund your next thing.
'cause then you're going into multiples, then you're really
thinking about the value of the company in the long term.
But yeah, I, I. I think this is like, this is like the kingmaker era, right?
If you can carve out like X percentage of any industry in any
company today, you could technically, you could do anything.
(20:10):
You could do anything, right?
Then if you think about historically, some of the best founders and
best companies that we use today still we're founded in bear markets.
Yeah, so.
Anything is possible, but diversification
probably not the right time to do that.
It's more about focus, getting really good at it, and then having a strong
enough foundation that when the opportunity presents itself, then you diversify.
(20:33):
And the other, you know, I would just add
to that, that whatever industry you're in.
AI is going to disrupt and transform it.
And so you should be actively asking yourself even as you are
putting together your pitch deck, 'cause you're out to your investors
and founders as you're reporting to your current board, whatever,
wherever you are in your cycle, you should be actively not just.
(20:53):
Planning for that disruption, but preempting and leaning into it.
Right?
So thinking about how you can leverage, um, and, and, and that idea prepared.
'cause before it used to be will we be disrupted and at, at what level?
And so when the innovation clip accelerates, um, the,
the staying power of brands essentially decreases.
So what I mean by that is, you know, you look at how long radio
(21:16):
or television was like the dominant form of like entertainment.
So these had.
Decades long, you know, sort of like periods of, um, dominance.
And now that innovation clip you're seeing, you know, companies,
the cycle, the life cycle for companies who, unless they are
literally steeped in innovation as a business model, right, and
constantly disrupting themselves, they become obsolete a lot faster.
(21:38):
And so I would prepare for that disruption
and prepare to be continually disrupted.
Disrupt it and then have an orientation of being perpetually disruptive.
And so I, I would, again, it's more of this sort of
like, stay on your feet model now it's no longer sit
back in the chair and let's see what's gonna happen.
Let's, at the top of the boardroom, those days are gone.
(22:02):
What you mean?
That is, that is crazy.
So some something that's something that I'm thinking
of as we're talking about community and stuff.
Do you all ever find the community to be wrong?
Hmm.
That's a hard question.
I know, but like, have you ever found yourself in a situation where like.
The community doesn't know what they're talking about here.
(22:24):
They're telling us something, and I'm not saying like from an arrogant
standpoint that you eventually come around on, but like how do you
defend your brand or your vision when you're trying to be hyper-specific
and you have to fight the community, so to speak, within that.
You know, I wouldn't say that the community is wrong,
but I would say that you can misread a signal, right?
(22:46):
And I, and I would say you don't take a signal as, um,
a mandate, you know, so you may have a community that.
You know, giving you a specific reaction or feedback
loop to a product experience or you know, to an
experience itself or you know, to a leader in a company.
It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to throw the baby out
(23:08):
with the bath water, but I think you take that into account, you
know, if you're sitting around and the same way you would, if you're
sitting around, you think about your community as stakeholders, and
if you're sitting, if you're having an all hands and you're talking
to your team, or if you're sitting around a boardroom and you have.
Someone who dissents, you're gonna say like,
okay, that's a valuable piece of feedback.
I should take it.
But it's not necessarily representative of the whole.
Or you could have a lot of folks giving you information, but they may not
(23:29):
have the context, for instance, of like what your p and l looks like, so
that they don't understand why you're making that particular decision.
So I think we have to take these signals
and this feedback is valuable and valid.
You know, like, you know, my mom would
always say, if it's real to you, it's real.
So it's like you're having that.
Experience, you know, with, with, with my brand, with my business,
you know, whether you're an employee, whether you're a board member,
(23:51):
stakeholder, investor, if you're a follower on social media, it's real.
But it doesn't necessarily mean that that's the thing that I have to action.
Yeah.
In isolation, that exact piece of feedback.
And I think that a lot of brands then find themselves
in Hyperreactive states because it's a very scary
place to be publicly exposed and having a conversation.
(24:12):
But we also see the attention span of audiences, and we know that
in many of these cases, there'll be a piece of feedback and it'll
be very rich in charge, and then it's sort of like onto the next.
And I think the, the idea is how do you create a flexible
feedback loop so that you can take that in, action
it, and constantly improve and be transparent, right?
(24:32):
Like, I think if, if your brand knows that you're listening and that you're
taking that feedback, if, if your audience knows that you're listening,
you're taking that feedback into account, they're more likely to give grace,
right?
I'd also say it depends on your conviction
and what your long-term plan is, right?
Um, I tend to ingest all feedback as data.
Uh, and if the data gets to a point of critical mass,
(24:55):
then you almost as a person developing a product, whatever
your offering may be, you almost have to reevaluate.
Does this make sense?
But I agree with Ty.
I mean, like, you can't be in a place where
you're constantly iterating based on every.
Tweet comments, social media, video, you see, because if you
do, you inevitably dilute the quality of your offering and I
(25:16):
think you start to lose picture of your longer term roadmap.
Right.
And you
lose some sleep.
Yeah.
And, and strong brands solicit strong reactions, negative and positive, right?
So I think if you are going to prepare to have a brand that's very well loved.
That same brand maybe also, um, you know, polarizing Exactly in some audiences.
So I think if you are a brand that is, um, you know, eliciting emotion from
(25:40):
your audience, you should expect there to be reactions, you know, on both sides.
Again, take the feedback in, you action it, but I, I don't think it's,
tell me a brand today who isn't getting signals that says there's something
serious that you need to change, or, I'm having a reaction to that.
And so the idea is, are you resonating with your core?
You know, are you unnecessarily polarizing?
(26:01):
And, and I don't think that's just, you ask about feedback in general.
I don't think that's just for social media.
I think it's in your boardroom.
I think it's, you know, the folks who are on your cap table,
all of those folks, you have to, you know, digest that feedback
well.
And one other thing I'll add to that too, is.
Any feedback if that strong is positive, right?
That means there is enough of your core audience
(26:21):
paying attention to what your brand is doing.
Yeah.
And so that in itself is a very positive thing, right?
You can, there are a ton of tactics you can deploy, right?
You can find focus groups, you can evaluate your product, you can
do a bunch of different things to evaluate what that signal is.
But generally speaking.
If you get a visceral reaction, positive or
negative, that means it's hitting something right?
(26:44):
So I would still take it as a positive sign.
What you do as a founder though, sort of sets the tone for how you
run a company and how you manage your investors and your board.
And so knowing how you pivot in those moments and
if you pivot at all is also a very important thing.
Understanding those core values and, and what matters
to you as a founder, I think is important there.
(27:06):
And yeah, I mean that's what I was really curious about.
'cause it is very challenging, especially for smaller businesses
and startups, when everybody has an opinion on what you should
do with this technology, this idea, this concept, whatever it is.
And it just puts you in this position to go,
well, I should just be everything to everybody.
I mean, we'll just be, we all know how
that goes.
(27:27):
That'll, that'll fix everything.
Um, but yeah, that's, that I think is the inverse of the challenge with
all the great community feedback you can get that can help you improve.
So yeah.
Thank you for that.
That's awesome.
Um, well this has been a great conversation.
I've really, really enjoyed it.
Um, Ty and Katie, thank you both for coming on.
Thank you.
Um, thank you.
Before we wrap.
I'd like to ask this one last question, um,
(27:49):
which is, which brand do you admire the most?
And, and when I say that, it's like in, in terms of like influencing
even you as a leader, I can't wait to hear you in your decisions.
So
this is so hard.
That's like picking a
baby.
Yeah, I know.
It doesn't have
to be your favorite, that's be one of yours.
It's just
like a brand you admire.
Yeah.
Uh,
something that's been influential in your decision making or,
(28:12):
and I are like, Hmm,
I know that's really like, how do you change?
They're in it, Chris.
They're in it.
I know.
You know, I, I, this, I won't say which brand I admire the most,
but because it's just top of mind, we were just talking about it.
What I find the, the elf acquisition of Road Yeah.
Really compelling was at this moment in time, Uhhuh because um, you
(28:34):
know, I think it was a company who's getting it right already, who went
out and said like, how do we disrupt ourselves and how do we look from.
At non-traditional innovation sources and how do we not just bet
on this person, but how do we bet on this audience that is another
audience that is akin to ours and we have to proactively outreach.
So they didn't do it on the back foot?
(28:55):
They do.
They did it after, I think they had had experienced something crazy.
I don't remember how many consecutive quarters
of growth they've experienced and co their CMO.
Brilliant.
But the idea that they would, you know, go out
and proactively say, this means something for us.
And I think, you know, and it's a testament to road how fast that
brand has grown by being hyper-specific, creating a lifestyle.
(29:16):
And you know, while it's a celebrity helm brand, I
think there's so many takeaways that like big Behe.
You know, brand holding companies and you know, sort of like baby
brands that are just starting can learn from both of those examples.
So it's not the one, I, I won't say who I admire the
most, but I found that partnership very admirable.
Okay.
I am, I'm gonna go even a different direction and I will
(29:37):
say not a brand that is a traditional consumer brand.
I will pick an IP brand because we all also came from the entertainment world.
I am absolutely obsessed with K-Pop demon hunters.
Yeah.
Oh
my gosh.
And number one, it's incredible.
Like my son can't stop singing the songs.
It is the only thing that plays in the car.
(29:58):
And the thing that's appealing about it is not only is the IP incredibly.
Attractive and appealing to a multi-generational household.
Uhhuh.
It also has so many legs for sequels, prequels, product, consumer products.
Um, you're talking about a very rich universe that has suddenly been created,
exploded overnight, global, tapped into K-pop, tapped into music, tapped into
(30:21):
pop culture, and has defined this next chapter for a young adult audience.
Think of how many children watch that.
Mm-hmm.
And that has become a core memory.
And for the rest of.
All of us parents, we will be buying those toys and products.
Right.
So to me, I feel like if you can generate a brand or an ip Yeah.
That has that longstanding effect, that hits that many notes
(30:44):
and that many genres, I mean, that's incredible, right?
Like if you think about it, think about that pitch.
It's about.
Like demon hunters who are K-pop bands saving the world.
Right.
I know
if I, if Ty and I were to go and pitch that today, we would, we'd be great.
But like still, but still needs to be like that.
Yes.
But the fact that it landed and it worked to me,
(31:07):
I feel like that's what brands are supposed to do.
They're supposed to affect you, not just emotionally.
There's a lasting impact and you vote with it and you pay for it.
Like.
I know I'm gonna buy a lot of that now.
I mean, I already have those songs living
in my head wrench absolutely free right now.
Right?
Absolutely.
So that to me is an incredible universe that just
got created hyper relevant and all of us are in it.
(31:29):
Like that moment I said that, all of us knew exactly what that was.
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
That is a powerful brand in ip.
I,
I just, um, showed my wife the trailer the other night.
'cause it was our first night in a long time
to just sit down and watch something together.
And I was like.
I know probably not tonight when you have a billion other things to
finish, but check out this trailer and the minute we got through it, the.
(31:49):
She was just like, that's amazing.
Like, yeah,
they did job.
My wife and I were like, okay, when are
we gonna watch this movie?
Yeah.
So,
yeah, it's, it's a, it's a really cool brand and it has
been crazy to see the zeitgeist and how fast it's gotten.
One of my favorite musicians, I shouldn't say favorite, I really enjoy his
music, so I don't wanna like downplay now that I've said it, but baby, no money.
His big thing on TikTok has been cost playing.
(32:12):
And so he started to coplay, he did a gender bend coplay for, for.
The demon hunter stuff and yeah, it's crazy.
Okay.
And tap
and tapping into all those, all those
verticals and getting them when they're young.
Exactly.
So brilliant.
You've old school Disney moves.
Exactly.
And that's exactly it, right?
The playbook could, could have been done before.
Mm-hmm.
But how they executed it was flawless.
(32:33):
Like if you look at the number of wigs that are being
created uhhuh, these different revenue streams and businesses
popping off of it that aren't even wholly owned by Netflix.
Right.
Like.
I'm blown away.
That's the kind of thing that all of us wanna do.
If we can build a brand like that, that'd be powerful.
We should work on that.
We should look.
There's an elf crossover there too, somewhere.
(32:53):
Kpop
K-Pop, vampire Slayers.
Coming next.
Guys, thank you so much for being with us today.
So much for having us, so much for coming
on.
Incredible.
Thank you.
All right.
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