Leading The Sales Rebellion with Dale Dupree

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
A lot of people saw the track like,Hey, if I do these things, X, Y,

(00:03):
Z, line up A, B, C, do my thousandcalls a week, blah, blah, blah.
I'll make success and eventuallyI'll be the manager and then
maybe I'll get a shot at equity.
Right?
And I was just kind of like, Idon't care about any of that.
I want to do what I love.
Welcome to We Built This Brand,where we talk to the creators and
collaborators behind your favorite brands.
Today, I’m talking with The CopierWarrior himself, Dale Dupree.

(00:25):
Dale’s the Founder and leader ofThe Sales Rebellion, and his unique
approach to sales and marketinginspires New Hope for the industry.
This is a guy who cut his teeth in aMetalcore band and now channels that
DIY attitude into changing the game.
Are you ready to and take downthe established Empire of sales?
Then suit up!
Here’s my conversation with Dale Dupree.”

(00:51):
Welcome to We Built This Brand.
Thanks, man.
We're just diving in.
Excited to be here.
Yeah, I'm happy to have you.
Thank you for your patience as we'vebeen getting set up and everything.
Good.
It's a lot of fun to have you.
So excited to talk to you today.
You know, a lot of who we've beentalking to recently have been agencies,
like marketing agencies, PR agencies,folks like that, and always love being
able to talk to someone who runs whatI would call, like, "a true brand," a

(01:13):
business that is not just representingother people, but you're actually doing
something, creating something unique inthe marketplace, and I think what you're
doing with Sales Rebellion's really cool.
So happy to dive into that with you today.
Would love to start, as we always do,with a little bit of your background,
and if you don't know who Dale Dupreeis, there's a lot of places you can learn

(01:33):
about your story, and would love to hearjust your Reader's Digest version, because
I know you, we've talked about it a bunch.
Everywhere I look you up, it's like,alright, your background, and 30 minutes
in, we finally get into some meat.
So I'd like to kinda bypass that todayand dive more into where you're at with
Sales Rebellion and everything else.
So, I'll let you take it away.

(01:53):
Thanks.
It's easier this way too for me, 'cause ittypically, when I do those podcasts that
you're talking about, people say, theygo, "Tell us a little bit about yourself,"
and then they hear like four things andthey go, "Yo, you gotta talk more about
that," and then all of a sudden we're30 minutes in, and we haven't talked.
But, Dale Dupree, my friends,they call me the Copier Warrior.
Now, to ultimatelyunderstand where I come from.

(02:15):
You gotta go back a littlebit further real quick.
In 1984, my father broke away fromthe status quo of sales selling copy
machines for the corporate monster,doing awesome, number one rep in
line to take over the business.
He left all that safety, allthat security, everything that he
had built because he just didn'tlike the way they did business.
Had nothing to do with what he wasmaking or ultimately like being

(02:37):
an entrepreneur even, he didn'tlike how they treated people.
He didn't like how they ran theiroperation, and he wanted more,
not just for himself, but for hiscustomers and his client base.
He felt like he could get that too.
So he said, you know, by the graceof God, I'm gonna go build something.
And by the way too, just to like mentionit, although my father eventually
became a born again Christian at thatpoint, and when I say by the grace of

(02:58):
God, my dad was like an atheist, right?
So he just leap of faith, like literallyon himself in that moment said, this
is something that I need to do, andI shouldn't call him an atheist.
He grew up in a Christian household.
Sure.
He did not know who God was anddidn't really care at all, right?
But the year after 1984 is mybirth year, 1985, and people
joke with me all the time.

(03:19):
They say, "Dude, Dale was born withtoner running through his veins," okay?
So, 'cause here's my dad's 10years into the copier industry
from an injury, a football injury.
He broke his neck.
It kept him from getting intothe NFL basically, and instead
he was like, what am I gonna do?
And he sold paper like Dwight Schrute,and that led to copiers, and then all of

(03:39):
a sudden he is opening his own business.
So it's my legend, right?
It's my legacy.
And so I spent years from a childto an adult teen wandering the
halls of my father's business.
Letting that toner really sink intothose veins and into my bloodstream.
I learned the industry without everreally trying to learn the industry, if

(04:02):
you will, and what I really learned is Ilearned how to become a servant leader.
I learned how to give experiences.
I learned how to be a manthat didn't need recognition.
That's what I learned, and I learned allthose things from my father in a nutshell.
There's a lot more that I learned ontop of that, but like how to now lose
money when you're selling stuff, andyou know, lots of other things, right?
But ultimately that shaped me.

(04:22):
It gave me an imagination, andmy father was, he was always very
entrepreneurial to say, "Yo Dale, Iwant you to do what you love. I don't
want you to do what you think is gonnamake you a lot of money," and whatnot.
So with that same motivation, I tookit, and I actually ended up skipping
college and touring in a band onWarner Bros. Records eventually.

(04:43):
That's awesome.
I mean, we started on Pluto.
Sure.
Indie label.
My boy Brian, shout out to Brian ifyou're listening to this, influential
entrepreneur in my life as well for sure.
You meet people along the way that havesuch a huge impact on you, and they
never even know in the first place, butyeah, that man helped me and guided me
and got me into Sony distribution andWarner Bros. Records distribution, and you

(05:07):
know, we had people buying our stuff inTokyo, you know, and our albums, right?
And so for me, like, I couldsee I had this vision, right?
But then I saw it come to life, andit was never the glitz and glamor that
people say it is at the end of the day.
'cause we weren't the Rolling Stones.
That's how you have to, that's theonly way to make money in the music
industry, is sell your soul and becomea 50, you know, year band, right?

(05:30):
But I digress.
The passion was why we did it, thelove is why we did it, and eventually,
those things brought me back tothe copier world, and I would say
that there was some instances andcircumstances that put me there, but,
you have to really understand that Istarted in this place of creativity.
I started in this place of entertainment.
I started in this place thatI loved That I wanted, that I

(05:51):
dreamed of becoming, if you will.
I even turned down somewhere in theballpark of a dozen scholarships, some
partial, some full rides, all of, most ofthem, there was only two academic ones,
but most of them are sports related.
So here I'm an athlete, but I play ina metal band, and I'm like the weirdest
kid you've ever met, right, at the time.
Just imagine, long haired dude,dunking on you, and then moshing,

(06:15):
you know, later that night, right?
Yeah.
Like it was, I was a veryunique person, right?
So, and I, hopefully, I still am to somecapacity, but got back into copier sales,
spent 13 years doing it, and that'swhere I created the moniker, The Copier
Warrior, and I built my reputation on theback of serving leadership principles,
and ultimately on the back of a ton offailure, a ton of risk, which led to a

(06:39):
lot of reward at the end of the day thatI don't think a lot of people of my age
would've ever really even thought about,especially in the industry I was in.
I think a lot of people saw the trackthat were in my industry, like, "Hey,
if I do these things, X, Y, Z, line upA, B, C, do my thousand calls a week,
blah, blah, blah. I'll make successand eventually I'll be the manager
and then maybe I'll get a shot atequity, right?" And I was just kind of

(07:02):
like, I don't care about any of that.
I want to do what I love.
I kept going back to that.
I wanna make people feel seen and heard,and not because I have to do that, but
because they deserve that, and thatultimately I'll build a community similar
to the one that my father did for himself.
Eventually that led to me leaving, wewere talking about the corporate world
a little while ago, like, it led to meleaving corporate, knowing that in my

(07:26):
heart, more so than anywhere else, itwasn't a place for me, and that there
was no way I was going to change it.
That's impossible, but instead Isaid, yeah, but I can go and start a
movement, and I can win the hearts andminds of people that feel the same way
that I do, that want to be more thanjust a salesperson, that desire more

(07:47):
for their life than just transactionsthat want to experience it, that want
to breathe life into something that'sdead and stale, and badabing bada boom,
2019, launched The Sales Rebellion.
Had no idea what I was doing, still don'treally understand what I'm doing, but
I'm six years in, and I haven't taken apaycheck from anybody else but myself.
Yeah.
And man, even if it crashes andburns tomorrow, and I'm done with

(08:10):
it, what a ride it's been for sure.
So.
That's exciting.
That's really cool, and I know there'sa lot more to that on all fronts.
One of the things that I thinkis really interesting is how
you've kind of kept this creativeelement going this whole time.
Like, there's been
kind of this pattern of, you know, youwanted to do music, you wanted to do

(08:30):
something artistic, then you got intosales, which can be very structured
and very formal, and you found a wayto make it really creative and really
unique, and dare I say, a littlemetal, I found as I was looking back.
I was checking some stuff outlast night and I came across
your band, and, Imperial.
Is that right?
That's it.
Yeah, and very metal, and that is thegenre that you would consider, right?

(08:53):
I just wanna make sure youwent like, oh, it's actually
this mad sub genre, Gothcore.
I don't know.
I'm just kidding, but you know whatI'm getting at, but very metal.
And then I went and checked out yourvideo that you have for The Copier
Warrior, which was really fun.
Yeah.
And it had just so many elements of it.
I was like, "Okay, this guy hasn'tleft his roots." Like, he's still got

(09:17):
some of it with him as he is traveling.
Yeah.
And then where you are now, evenwithin, you know, The Sales Rebellion
and things, there's a lot of creativeelements there that are very unique.
So it's cool to see you being true toyourself as part of the process, too.
And so with that, we get into startingthis rebellion, this sales rebellion.

(09:40):
Tell me how did youcome up with that idea?
I mean, you left, you got burned out andyou started, wanted to start something,
but where did you go from there?
Know I'm such a nerd.
In the beginning when I started to lookat this idea of leaving the corporate
landscape, and let me just say too,that I didn't suffer from burnout in

(10:03):
the corporate landscape, or even in theprivate business side of things, too.
I mean, I did a lot, I worked really hard.
I preach the idea of not doing thatas much because of my experiences
and the things I learned, andthere was also a balance there.
I hate to call it that, but really whatthere was, there was a rebellion there.

(10:23):
So in my, and like to just give a littlecontext to that, in 2013, I made the
first year that I made six figures,basically like 2012 was the year my
father sold his business, and by theway, I started in 2008 as well too.
It was late 2007, so I was picking thecopy machines up from the companies
that you're talking about going like,"Yeah, we're outta business now," and
they were shredded files everywhere.

(10:44):
I mean, Severance, the TV showlike we were talking about.
I mean, it was like war zone stuff,dude that we were experiencing.
Oh man.
So this is like my introductionto the B2B space, right?
Well, this is a great place.
Like, no, I felt terrible about theB2B space and thought, well, this
sucks, and why I'm gonna go work at afast food restaurant and at least know
that I'm gonna make a paycheck andthen like do something else, right?

(11:07):
That I had that temptation many times,but, you know, ultimately I came back to
this space for myself in my upbringingof business that stayed the course.
And by 2012, 2013, right, I, mydad's business sells, I go over
to the new company through theacquisition, and I'll tell you

(11:27):
right now that I was ready for that.
I was so fired up for that, dude.
Four years of basically rebuildinga business, and you know, hitting a
million dollars in there selling, forany of my copier homies listening,
used equipment and hitting a milliondollars, which I think a lot of people
respect that thing more than anything.
So, 'cause if a machinecosts $15,000, brand new.

(11:49):
Yeah.
Used, it costs $2,000, dude.
Right.
That's the literal cost, right?
That's a lot of volume.
It is a lot of copy machines, dude.
I mean, I think one year I wasover 110 total accounts, like, with
my father and net new business.
The average in the copier space at thetime especially, was like 12 to 15.
Right.
Maxim right?
Yeah.
So, I 10Xed, if you will, shoutout to Uncle G or whoever.

(12:11):
Grant Cardone, isn't that his name?
Maybe, yeah.
10X or whatever the hell.
Let's call it 11X.
I 11Xed it.
I went one step further thanUncle G. Anyway, so the idea
though, was that, like, I tookthat to the corporate landscape.
I never lost myself in the process.
People tried to get meto lose myself, for sure.

(12:32):
"Hey, man, you need to be at yourdesk more often." Yeah, right, dude.
No, I'm in the field.
I'm a salesperson, right?
So when I looked at this idea of startinga rebellion, it was really just looking
at all the things that I had alreadyrebelled against in the first place.
From being like slapped on thehand and saying, "Hey man, this is
the marketing you're passing out?
You stabbing copy machinesin the middle of the woods?

(12:54):
Like, this isn't acceptable.
Like, at least you have clotheson, but this is strange.
We don't like this," to that samegroup of leaders coming back to me
and going, "Do whatever you want.
I'll never forget the first emailthat ever went out from my second
generation of leaders.

(13:15):
Shoutout to Rich Johnson, by the way.
If he's listening, he was one ofthe good ones, but in that second
generation of leaders, I got Steve Clap.
Love this man.
He is such an incredible guy, buthe sent an email out after the first
year, and he said, "and the words ofRocky Balboa," and it wasn't Rocky.
It was somebody in like Rocky B that waslike, "he's not human," and that fired
me up so much to hear a person thatknew Jack about one year of my life,

(13:37):
to see what I was capable of, and totell me that, it was so exhilarating.
It was so, just in general, it waspowerful from a motivational standpoint
for my life, not just my business walk,and I took that fire and I turned it
into six figures that next year forthe first time in my life, right?
Because I had to not take a paycheck, man.

(13:59):
Like you remember 2008, right?
Yeah.
Imagine running a small businesswith your dad, basically, and you're
like the only ones left that aren'tgetting paid at one point because
you're trying to keep the employees on.
You're paying them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was a wild ride, dude.
So when I hit those milestones for myself,I think the number one thing I realized
was that it wasn't better than the fouryears that I had spent leading up to this.

(14:21):
Like, I hadn't suddenly,like, changed my life.
Like, I was already changing my lifefour years ago by making the decision.
The journey became somethingthat I started to romanticize.
Mm.
And so then I started thinking, well,if I can make my first year, I made
$180,000 when I made six figures.
So it wasn't like a $101,000.
It was like BAM.
Like from $65,000, that was themost I ever made, to $180,000.

(14:43):
That's awesome.
It was a crazy jump, right?
And from, and that was 2012, 2013, right?
So from there it wasinsane what happened to me.
And so when I looked at startinga movement around money, that
was never the motivation.
Starting a movement around lovingwhat you do and achieving ultimate

(15:04):
freedom from those things?
That was the motivation.
And so it had nothing really, ultimately,to do with burnout or being sick and tired
of stuff or, you know, my corporate job,definitely, they brought me back to work
way faster than they should have when mybaby was born, and they cited, "Well, you
know, you haven't actually earned, you'retwo months shy of your tenure here to earn
those extra weeks. So, sorry about that."

(15:27):
Yeah.
Like, things like that really justset me off, and then words that were
expressed to me by my leaders, and Imean, I've never, I don't know if I
can even say it on this podcast, but.
You can say it, and wecan take it out later.
Oh, I've never heard the term in a meetingwith the HR person present, and all the
leadership of the organization, the word****sucker used, pointed at an individual.

(15:51):
Good Lord.
Never heard that.
Wow.
I've heard it in a fist fight, butlike never in a boardroom setting.
Like, whoa, buddy, this is intense.
And really, I realized that I was ina place that when people were powerful
enough, they could get away with anything.
Mm.
So it, again, it had nothing todo with like, "Man, I'm sick of
this," and it had everything to dowith, "Man, wouldn't it be nice if

(16:14):
we changed the way this worked?"
Mm.
And and even if we didn't changethe way these people worked,
that we built our own thing.
Yeah.
And we did it ourselves.
Yeah.
And we ignored all this crap and allthese rules and all this stupidity.
And we did the things that I was ableto do to make myself a millionaire,
make other people millionaires, andultimately gain financial freedom that
led to ultimate freedom in my life.
So yeah, that's a real, I took like someleft turns, some right turns in there, but

(16:37):
hopefully that hits your, your question.
No, no, no.
It's good because, like, you're showingkind of the rebellious stage of it, but it
was really about a rebellion for somethingbetter, and, like, for me, like, in just
thinking about my own career, that was alot of what I experienced too, of like,
oh, people are getting away with stuffthey shouldn't be getting away with.
And, you know, I was told at one pointin my sales career to lie to a customer.

(17:00):
Boldface lie to a customer.
Now, how do you think my salescareer went after I told my
boss, "No?" Did not go well.
Yeah.
And so, like, that became the tensionand the ultimate impetus for me moving
on and leaving sales entirely for,well, I thought I was leaving it.
I didn't really, but I thought Iwas leaving it for a while and,

(17:21):
yeah, I didn't wanna be around that.
I didn't wanna be around anenvironment that encouraged that
and thought of that as the winner.
Right.
And those people as the good people, soI can totally relate to that, and yeah,
that call to something better, I thinksalespeople need to hear that because it
can often be a very toxic environment.
So tell me a little bit more.
So you get this name, Rebellion,where else does, I feel like there's

(17:43):
something else with Rebellion too.
It feels very Star Wars-y.
Yeah.
I've noticed some StarWars themes to what you do.
Yeah.
Is there's some elements there?
Yeah.
Imperial, The Sales Rebellion.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It really was easy for me to decideto call this a, "rebellion," and
then it felt like everybody wantedto use the word after I used it.

(18:03):
So it's almost as if like everybodywas thinking about it, and I was
the first person to just like, daremighty things and say like, I don't
care if I'm in a corporate landscape.
I'm gonna call this what I wanna call it.
And yeah, it, 1,000%, I'm a rebel dude.
Like, I'm a rebel scum, bro.
I'm a big fan of Luke Skywalker, hisstory, I know it's not real and it's
fictional, ladies and gentlemen,but I just love this idea of like

(18:27):
the farm boy who knows nothing buthis parents upbringing, who are
not even his parents, by the way.
Gosh.
Spoilers, spoilers, by theway, Darth Vader and Luke.
There's something, there's somethinghappening in there that maybe.
Maybe I shouldn't talk about it anyway,but yeah, we don't wanna spoil it.
But like his erraticness, his, you know,just his energy, his excitement to go

(18:48):
to war, you know, against the empireand to fight back, and man there that,
I was inspired by that, and my motherwas the big push and those things.
She loved Star Wars too for thestorytelling and the sci-fi, and
it was like one of her first moviesthat she ever saw in the theaters.
And, you know, because that was like a bigdeal at that point in history in the '70s,

(19:09):
and like, you know, my mom was primed.
She was like in college and it was likeperfect timing for someone like her to be
immersed into those stories, and she's apretty straight-laced woman to be quite
frank with you, but she's fun, she'squirky, she's got a big imagination.
And sometimes I wonder if ultimatelyI get my imagination from my mom,
and she's just never really saidthat, you know, in the first place.

(19:29):
But because of that, I operatein nostalgia dude, and I believe
that most people do as well.
I believe that when I get a marketingpiece, or I field a sales call that if
there's some type of experiential momentthere that leads toward curiosity, toward
nostalgia, toward the idea of even liketaking a little bit of a risk, like some

(19:52):
adventure, if you will, that people willrespond better, more efficiently, and
different, and, like, different is whatall of us need from people in responses,
because otherwise it's just the statusquo and otherwise, like, we're just noise.
So when I thought of, you know, likehow do I name a corporate brand, it
made so much sense for me to just goback to the things that drive me that

(20:14):
I'm passionate about, that I love,like a sci-fi thriller called Star Wars
that kids, which is even crazy, right?
That kids, you know, around us coming upin a whole new generation think that The
Acolyte is Star Wars, and I'm like, nobro, it's The Return of the Jedi, dude.
That's Star Wars, right?
But anyway, the goal was reallyalso to think about what is

(20:37):
the evolution of the buyer?
So if I call my company "Deal toPre-sales Training" or something
more corporate, well in about10 years, who am I selling to?
Well, I'm selling to kids, man.
I'm selling to the next generation,65% of decision makers, even with
the groups that we support in theB2B space, from solar, to copiers, to

(20:57):
IT, to the financial side of things.
Like you name it, like FinTech,SaaS, they sell to people that are
between the ages of 25 and 45, dude.
That's the majority of buyers now.
So if, again, like in my mind, justlike you have looked at my brand
and said, "this is cool, this isfun," like, that's the point is to
let people know that like, hey, likestretch your legs a little bit, man.

(21:19):
Like, unbutton the top button.
Take your tie off even like.
Be yourself.
Be authentic.
It's okay.
it's fine.
Yeah.
And you bring up a good point withlike who you're marketing towards too.
Like that positioning is saying,"Hey, we're here for the people who
see this, get this, understand it,which is gonna attract a certain
type of person to you," right?
Which is really helpful for you as well.

(21:41):
But also with that positioning, you know,I tend to forget about it, but as you're
saying it, I'm like, let me think aboutall the sales training I've ever been in.
Oh yeah.
There was SOCS at AT&T.
The Science of Consultative Selling.
Yes, and it was a whole formulaic thing.
I even had to get SOCS sales certified,which included like sales tests

(22:02):
and role plays and all this stuff.
I did Northwestern Mutualat one point in my career.
Like, that was actually my firstexperience was insurance sales
with Northwestern Mutual, in amarket where I didn't have family
too, which was really tough.
And so like, it was, you know, I've,I've been through all that, and then
I've also dealt a little bit with likeSandler Sales, and the one constant theme

(22:23):
through all these is they are boring.
They are not fun.
It makes sales out to be just a scienceand a numbers game, which it can very
well be, and very much is at times, butit's very much just this boring process,
and you're breathing new life into it.
And I think that's what I findreally interesting about it.
Word.
I like the concept too of, soI feed off of the old to create

(22:49):
what I have put together.
So, I like going back to the Zig Ziglarsand, like, learning about what they
were trying to relay, or the DavidSandlers, and then seeing, finding
the gaps first, and then also likeunderstanding their science, if you will.
Because the way that that helps me tobreak it down is I get to say, okay, cool.

(23:10):
So, in all science it becomespredictable is the thought process.
Well, humans are not predictable, so ifI boil everything down to a science, you
know, and I'm Sandler Sales Training,it's gonna definitely work throughout
the '80s and the '90s and maybe evensome of the early 2000s, but over
time, like, people are gonna start tounderstand what you're doing to them.

(23:32):
That science, that predictability ofthat science with an unpredictable
environment, they don't mesh, andso at a certain point you lose it.
And so here we go with the whole,like, this is anybody listening,
this is the literal purpose, let'sjust say, of The Sales Rebellion.
The purpose of The Sales Rebellion isto meet people where they are, not to

(23:54):
force something into their ecosystem.
Science forces stuff into your ecosystem.
It says, "Well, now what's importantis your ROI." We all wanna make
money off something in the businessenvironment, but that's not the
most, what's actually importantis what I'm doing with that money.
My people that I'm hiring, howI'm supporting their families.

(24:16):
My customers and their happiness.
Not just because I had a good product,but because I treated them like normal,
rational, intelligent human beings.
Right.
And that I respected the emotionalside of things as well, too.
Groups like Sandler, the Challenger, sothey don't respect the emotions of people.
They don't care about how you feel.

(24:38):
They need you to meet them where they are.
That's what their systems are alldesigned to do, and mad respect for,
you know, the old guard and the peoplethat have built what they've built,
but they live in a fantasy world now.
They live in a fantasy world.
They put out books, like, right literallyat the peak of COVID saying, "Oh, I'm

(24:58):
an expert now in selling on Zoom. Here'smy book." Like these are the companies.
This is who they are.
There's no integrity in that.
Four weeks of selling onZoom, and you're an expert.
I mean, GTFO, bro.
Like, that to me is absolutegarbage and totally nuts.
And ultimately too, like selling,expertise of selling doesn't

(25:20):
come from sales experts, dude.
It comes through the way we experiencethe buying market and the way that
we buy ourselves just the samebecause we're buyers too, right,
ultimately, at the end of the day.
So really, like, the science ofsales, the numbers of sales, those
are mythology, in my opinion.
The art of sales is the only thingthat is a constant that will always

(25:41):
for generations to come until every,until you and I are robots, right,
doing this interview, which no onewill watch at that point anyway.
I mean, just robots watchingrobots talking to robots.
Well, it's part of whywe're here in person.
Right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Real, living flesh.
This
is the rebellion, bro.
You're leading one inthe podcast space, right?
That's right.
That's right.
So, but yeah, that the point being thoughthat like emotion, the human experience,

(26:04):
that is the thing that's always consistentwithin sales and marketing, and that's
why people that look beyond what iscorporate, what is acceptable in the
business what is even appropriate inthe business box, those people fail.
Yeah.
Constantly.

(26:25):
Like, I want you so lit upthat you're angry with me.
Because when I call you and I go,"Hey, this is Dale, the guy that sent
you that thing that made you angry,"and you're like, "I hated that."
And I go, "Yeah, but like, youremembered me. For the first time
you remembered a salesperson."
Yeah.
"Okay. I can see that." And then whenyou understand the context of like, why
I sent you what I sent you in the mailto have this experience and you give it

(26:46):
a couple days, you're a $400,000 sale.
And not because I like did some weirdscience on you, but because I met you
where you were, and you didn't even knowit at the time, but because I understand
you, and I made the effort to do thosethings right, it might feel cold, but
man, the internet, AI, when you useit right, powerful places in order
to, like, for me to learn about Chris.

(27:07):
Yeah.
Knows just like you, we're goingout and checking Imperial out
before we got together, right?
Like, you would've never known thatwithout the option of being able to go
and do that research in the first place.
Right.
And that's, I believe that selling,it's not about, I'm not a big
personalized everything kind of guy.
I'm just like a, I'm rational about that.
Man, if you just like mentionone thing that's important to
me, I'm gonna listen differently.
I'm gonna trust you differently.

(27:28):
There's more credibility here.
So.
Yeah.
There's a rant for you.
I like it though.
I mean, finding that human connectionwith people, is something, and
even human emotion is somethingwe're learning as we've interviewed
other folks for this podcast.
Like, it's a big thing to find thathuman element to a sale, to a purchase.

(27:49):
Impulse buying is becoming moreand more common right now with the
way the Internet's going and thingslike that, and a lot of that's
driven by people that are bored,that are tired, that are interested.
It just gets you, justright time, right place.
You're always looking at your phone,so why not throw an ad up there for
something that looks mildly intriguing anddirt cheap, or claims to be dirt cheap.
If you spend any time on TikTok,you know what I'm talking about?

(28:13):
It's just they're crappyproducts, but you get 'em.
'cause it's like, ah, well you know what?
It's only $20.
If it doesn't work, I can throw it away.
You know?
Yeah.
And it's sad that we're at that pointin the economy, but like, you know,
but that's just that human element,and even as you get into sales, like,
yeah, if you can't interact with peoplein a way that grabs their attention,

(28:35):
like, you're just wasting your breath.
So how do you get people to respondfor those that may not know much
about The Sales Rebellion, like, whatis your, what are kind of the core
things that you do to help people?
And then specifically, like, whatkind of, like, I don't wanna say
products 'cause I don't know thatthat's the right way to put it.

(28:56):
It might be, but what are the thingsthat you all offer to help people with
this sales process to think differently?
It's a great question, and you did.
You put it all the right way.
Yeah.
We believe in layman's terms.
So you call it a product, ifI call it something different,
you're not gonna know what it is.
Right.
We're always about meeting peoplein those spaces, and so ultimately

(29:19):
though, like, what we do is we createdifferentiation when you find it.
So if you see that The Rebellionhas curriculum, but so does Sandler,
most likely you're gonna be drawnover here to this Sales Rebellion
thing, especially 'cause of theaesthetics of what we provide for you.
The experience that we give you.
It's not like, "Boost your sales by20% today!" It's more like, "Hey,

(29:40):
are you tired of doing the same stuffthat your boss keeps telling you to
do over and over again that barelyhelps you hit quota every month?
It makes you stressed, makesyou anxious, makes life at home
harder, makes you drink, makesyou pick up bad habits in general.
Makes you hate your life, and you'vebeen doing it for seven years now.
What the hell?
Well come over here.
We have something for you thatwill elicit freedom in your life."

(30:02):
And like when people see the differencein those things, it's like, well they
saw it 'cause we called it curriculum,but they bought it because we pulled
at their heartstrings, and ultimatelybecause we offer something so much
different than everybody else.
That's really what we offer, man.
We offer this I idea of changingthe way that your sales works.
So, the thing is though, is thatwe're not cutting edge, dude.

(30:22):
Like, I have traced contact marketingback with the father of contact
marketing, if you will, Stu Heinecke.
It's a silent mentor turned reallygood friend of mine at this point.
That's cool.
He's actually gonna be aTotality in Knoxville, Tennessee.
August 26th, 27th, and 28th.
Shout out to Totality.
Fascinating.
Okay.
If you wanna meet him and learnabout his crazy life, you know, 50

(30:44):
years almost of contact marketing.
It's a wild ride.
That's amazing.
You know, but through people like him, Iwas able to find like the Medici bro, like
Da Vinci created a, like a painting forthe Medici to like sell this other banking
family on using their, you know network,if you will, by painting this picture, you

(31:08):
know, through this famous artist, right?
Like, to get these people to basicallybe like, "This is awesome. Let's
take a meeting with these guys."Like, this is something that's
been happening forever, dude.
Yeah.
But the idea is that we've lost touchwith it because of the word "scalability,"
first and foremost, and the greed thatpeople have toward quick, fast, easy

(31:28):
money, that doesn't last, by the way.
Yeah.
Right?
Most of the companies that quick,fast, easy money, they sell, or
they have to become an acquisitionGod among the marketplace in order
to remain relevant to begin with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy that the biggest brandsout there are big because they
bought everybody else that wascoming in to beat them, right?
And that's what the, like literalstrategy is a business these days.

(31:50):
That to me is not sustainable, bro.
Yeah.
It's monopolizingnetworks and marketplaces.
No one likes it on the consumer side.
Like if you can only get onetype of cable TV to your house
and one internet connection andone phone, you know, provider.
What the hell?
Yeah.
How is that a free marketplace?
Welcome to America, right?

(32:10):
The concept of what we sell isgetting back to the roots of
like, you don't have to build abig company and sell to some guy.
You could just do this byyourself for the next 25 years.
Make plenty of money.
Be happy.
Live in ultimate freedom.
Give yourself time back to your life.
Spend it on the things that you loveand really literally do it different

(32:32):
than everybody else, 'cause if I senda trash can to an office where I could
potentially make $10,000 a year on a B2Bproduct for a four year contract, right?
$40,000, right?.
One office, outcome, one typeof revenue, like if I'm looking
at ROIs, and everything else.
And instead of, like saying, let's dothe science and let's make a 47 touch

(32:55):
sequence that lasts, you know, fourmonths with emails and phone calls and
you know, some drip stuff and blah,blah, blah, like if, but if instead,
if I were to just say like, no, we'regonna instead just do like a tense touch
sequence, and we are gonna take our time.
If it takes a couple months, that's fine.
Yeah.
But we're gonna give people an intenseexperience unlike anything they've

(33:17):
ever gotten, and so that person haspeople calling on them all day long.
"Hey, can I get 15 minutes of yourtime?" "Hey, this is a sales call.
Do you want to hang up?" Like, no shade.
No shade.
Like those are, those thingswork sometimes, right?
For sure, but the obnoxiousness really,and like the tone of voice is because,
like, that's what a lot of people whobuy, that's how they feel about it.

(33:38):
Like, a lot of 'em will stillentertain it just because it's
different, but they're like, yeah,you know, it kinda gets old over time.
But that's with anything.
Yeah.
Like we just talked about over time.
Oh yeah.
People catch on, man, but if insteadI send you an experience and it's
not like a catchy line or a, let'sjust say a misleading subject line
about, like, chicken soup or somethingstupid, like these people think are,

(34:01):
you know, are a pattern interrupt, butinstead it's a trash can, and you're
like, "What is this?" And you open itup, and there's a letter that says,
"Hey, I threw this away," 'cause salesmarketing, you know, and brochures
and white papers, they're trash.
Yeah.
You toss 'em anyway, so made it easierand just like pre-crumpled and pre-threw
mine away, then some people would saythat that's a gimmick, and while I

(34:24):
would agree, I would also say like,in this buying market is actually the
most relevant thing you could tellsomebody because well, all they do is get
inundated with cold calls all day long.
They freaking hate it, bro.
Yeah.
And so I can literally speakthe love language of the person
I'm calling on by doing that.
Yeah.
And it's a great pattern interrupttoo, because you don't expect to get
a crumpled up letter in the mail.
You look at it and you go, whythe crap am I getting this?

(34:45):
Like, what's going on?
And then.
You know, you're more likely to readit because you're curious about why
it was crumpled in your in your enve
lope to begin with.
Want to launch a podcastwithout the hassle?
Humble pod makes podcastingeasy from concept to launch.
We'll help you create a professionalengaging show, already have a podcast.
We handle editing, show notes,transcriptions, and even video production

(35:07):
so you can focus on your content.
With our tailored services, you get highquality production, seamless publishing,
and expert support at every step.
Whether you're starting fresh or levelingup, humble pod ensures your podcast sounds
amazing and reaches the right audience.
Visit humble pod.com to get started today.

(35:34):
I think you, did you say at one pointyou even, like, I think I recall this
from previous thing I saw where youactually were, I think you talked,
you do like a basket, you send 'emlike a basketball goal for the trash
can or something like that as well.
They, you know, there's like variationsof the crumpled letter for sure.
I learned it by, so I actually, theorigination of the crumpled letters that

(35:55):
I was tearing my business cards in themiddle and telling people, people would
say, "Can I get your business card?"And I would hand it to them, and by the
way, I actually had somebody manufacturethem where they velcroed in the middle.
It cost me so much money, but it was likeone of the coolest things I ever did, but
I was sitting in my car one day, and afterlike an FU experience like a literal, "Get

(36:20):
the F outta my office," experience, andI, you know, I'd gone through stuff like
that before, but this one was just superintense and I thought to myself like,
what, you know, what can I walk in with?
'cause the card, even the business cardwas like something I gave at the end,
you know, when they asked, I got the likethe scissors that had like, the texture
to them, so it looked like jagged edges,you know, when I cut down the middle.

(36:42):
So it was cool.
People loved it, but I couldn't,I didn't walk in the door and like
say, "Hey, here's my business card.
It's pre-torn so you could throw itaway." It didn't feel right, so I started
coming up with this idea of, well, mostof what we're doing angers people, and
I actually came up with, at the time,I came up with two other letters that

(37:03):
I just didn't try, because then I heardabout a version of the crumbled letter,
if you will, which I'll get into.
But first, I burnt the edges of a letter,and I put it in a matchbox, and I just put
like, "Light this on fire," on the top ofthe matchbox, and I was like, that's sick.
And then I did a coffeestain letter, 'cause I was
thinking about my demographic.

(37:23):
Who am I selling to?
Why would it be relative relevant to them?
And the second was like IT.
I deal with it all the time, so I didlike Mountain Dew, and then I did coffee.
And I put these stains of MountainDew and these stains of coffee on
the letters, and I just put like.
So wait, were you hand staining though?
Yeah, dude, I was doing thismy hand at the time, right?
That's impressive.
Okay.
We were like sitting in myoffice like a scientist.

(37:44):
You're just making a mess.
Just like making an absolute mess, andmy boss like, "What are you doing man?"
You know, like, and this was my dad atthe time, so I was my boss at this stage.
This was 2009 when I first starteddabbling in contact marketing, right?
Yeah.
But then I heard this story aboutthis guy who he was sending letters to
people through real estate, and he waslike friend of a friend kind of thing,
so I heard, I didn't read about this.

(38:05):
I heard it from the horse'smouth when he saw my letters.
He goes, "Dude, check this out," andthis guy was sending in the real estate
world, he was sending to all these peoplewho had listed their houses for 90 days,
he was sending them advertising andgetting like a less than 1% response.
And so like he'd send it and 10 dayslater when he got a response, he'd
send it again, except this time heput like a marker, a red sharpie on it

(38:27):
that said, "Don't throw me away again."It was almost like it got resurrected
from the trash, and I was like, damn.
That's a good idea.
Yeah.
The guy was calling itthe crumpled letter.
I think it was actually crumpledtoo, which is why he called it that.
But that was the story I heard, andthen I took one of those letters
I had and I like, I balled it up,and I opened it back up, and I was
like, yo, this is a really good idea.

(38:49):
Bought some little mini trash cans,and then I made envelopes too that said
like, "crumpled letter inside," usinglike the red handwriting like he had.
Where he had put, "don't throw me awayagain," I just put, "crumpled letter
inside," you know, dot, dot, dot, 'causeI felt from my perspective, it was
how do we drive curiosity in people?
How do we create relevanceto the messaging?

(39:10):
Drive back to what we fix andhelp people with and then also
give them this epic experiencethat makes them curious, excited.
Even if they're like, yeah, you know,it was whatever, 'cause they're just
not a very fun person, that they wouldnever forget what you did to them
because of the way that, typically,salespeople reach out in the first place.
So that's like the entire contextof how I started to create this

(39:32):
idea of doing things different.
And that's what The SalesRebellion does, man.
We literally, and every imagine thatyou get a response from somebody
in your typical sales walk thatsays, "Hey, reach out to me in 12
months." What do we typically do?
We reach out to them for the nextsix months, like every other month
kind of thing with like some stupidmarketing thing that we think they'll

(39:53):
like and enjoy, but we have no idea.
They've never, they didn't evenask for that in the first place.
But imagine like a month later, theyget a save the date in the mail like you
would send out when you get married orhave a bar mitzvah or whatever, right?
Imagine to save the date.
And it's like, you know, the alignment,or you could even call it the matrimony

(40:15):
of ABC company and XYZ company, andthen it's like the date they asked you
12 months later, and like, "Hey, I knowyou asked me to reach out in 12 months,
so I'm saving the date for us, andI look forward to meeting you then."
And they have this whole experienceand they're like, they say two things.
Like, either this person is genius orthey're insane, and both of those things

(40:35):
I believe to be really good optionsas opposed to indifference, right?
Because that's how they lookat 99% of salespeople is
they're indifferent to them.
You don't exist in their mind, in theirheart, in their ecosystem, period.
Because you're forgettable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nothing like finding ways to stickout, and when you mentioned people

(40:56):
being angry at you all the time, likeso much PTSD just flashing through my
head of times where I've been yelledat or hollered at, and I wouldn't
consider myself that annoying.
You learn to be persistent and not,you know, pestering as I like to say.
But yeah, you definitely
run into situations where people are like,"Stop bothering me, quit," and they do

(41:18):
anything they can to tell you to stop.
So if you can do something to make themlaugh or at least make them think before
they throw it away, you know that that'sgonna help you on that next follow up
or that next contact, so that's awesome.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
So you do stuff likethat, you also do what?
Consulting on top of that as well?
Yeah.
You know, we're like a, Idon't know, there's just like
a trash can of options, right?

(41:40):
Like ultimately we have"advisors" is what we call it.
So like if you came in, and you'relooking at your sales process, whether
it's just your outbound or it's acouple different, it's discoveries, it's
closing, like wherever your problemsare, we have an advisory program we put
people through, but like ultimately,like what everything drives back to
in our organization is fulfillment.
So if you're a company thatdoesn't have salespeople that are

(42:03):
achieving outcomes that you desire,you know, we used to do training.
We did it for like five years almost.
This is the first year that we haven'treally done quote unquote "training," and,
but because the problem with that is thatlike five of the 50 people that you put
to the program are gonna actually do it.
And even though they make, they end upfilling the gap and getting record years
to the organization, we got 45 people thatstill, yeah, just kind of like existing.

(42:27):
And so what like B playersand C players, right?
Like do they exist?
Yeah.
In a competitive environments, but ifyou culture that, there's nothing good
about that, so I, what we figured,you know, about a year ago was we
need to make some changes here.
We need to not just go in and showpeople what to do and how to do it and
provide them with all the resources.
You just do it for them, so webecome more of like a boutique

(42:49):
agency, if you will, for sales.
So you hire us on as like a sales rep.
Okay.
And we become, we're in the bullpen,like we're a ghost because, you know,
we're just an empty chair 'causewe're remote, but we use the mail
system, which is widely effective.
People just don't know howto do it right is the thing.
There's a lot of rules that have changed.
Mail forwarding, digitizing mail, sothere's a lot of ways to get to people,

(43:12):
remote or not, through the mail.
So we use the mail, and then we havea system of follow up, which is way
different than agencies that aredoing just straight cold calling
using their pitches, which are great.
You know, I have a couple greatfriends that run agencies like
that, but our calls are hated.
This is the guy that sent youthat trash can in the mail, and
the conversion of that is insane.

(43:33):
I mean, we'll take a list of 150 peopleand we'll, 51 of them will become
disqualified really fast because they'llrespond, "Yo, I got your letter. We
don't have what you offer though, andwe don't need it, you know? Thank you
though." You know, so like enrichment,things like that are important, right?
But like, imagine that you put a, Isay it this way, 'cause imagine you put
a rep into that seed and gave 'em 150names and said like, get some responses,

(43:56):
and 51 of those people don't evenqualify, but you never hear from them.
You chase them for the next 10 years.
Yeah.
What a wild thought man, and so like,we're helping organizations to understand
list integrity, data integrity.
We're helping organizations tounderstand that sales doesn't have to
be done the way that everybody does it.
Right.
And that ultimately, likeeven if this idea becomes
mainstream, it's freaking good.

(44:17):
For the buyers.
So people say all the time, like, "Well,it works now, buddy, but it, you know,
enough people are doing this, it ain'tgonna work," and like, bro, everyone
calls and says, "Hi, this is a sales call.
You wanna hang up?" "Hi, can Ihave 27 seconds of your time?" You
know, like everybody says that.
So like, what's the difference?
Well, the difference isthat people like ours.
People really enjoy the experience andwhen, and again, like when they don't, it

(44:38):
doesn't really matter that much, right?
Yeah.
So I think the problem and whyI bring that up is that people
are afraid of those risks.
Well freaking just hire usand we'll do it for you, man.
Right.
And then like, and if wedon't work, fire us, right?
Like you've got 12 months of usbuilding a pipeline for you, basically,
which is highly effective, andthen you just fire us and take the
pipeline and go close it however youwant, if you feel like it, right?

(45:00):
Yeah.
But additionally, like an individual,like if an individual is listening
right now that doesn't like, have$30,000 to hire us as a sales rep and
then pay us commission, you know, like.
An individual can go to the rebel arcadeand just buy the tutorials $24.99,
all the way up to $490.98, right,of like the different packages, and
you can, you'll coach 'em with that.
You get resources with that andshow you exactly how to build these

(45:22):
campaigns for contact marketing.
How to implement them, yourICP, how to speak to them
effectively through written word.
How to follow up with them effectivelyover the phone and through email
after you're using these mediums.
So we're really, like, for thepeople is how we look at it.
Like, we're for the rebels.
Like, we want everybody to beable to experience rebellion.
So if your boss is like, "No, we wouldnever bring these guys in for a workshop

(45:45):
to show all 50 people for three days,"or "No, we would never hire them for
12 months to do sales for us," oryou know, like, "No, I'm not putting
you in one of their sales cohorts.
You can just like outta your own pocket,"spend a $100, $200, buy our playbooks
and go implement them yourself. And thenwe have a free community that attaches
to that as well too, for people thatjust want to come and like get some

(46:05):
feedback and say like, "Yo, I senta hundred things in the mail, and I
didn't have the greatest experience.
I need some help."
Yeah.
And allow, you know, ourecosystem, our community, our
people to breathe life into them.
So I mean, ultimately I think whatwe're turning into, bro, like just
in a nutshell is, we're turning intoa community for people that's more
in-person than it is anything else.
Yeah.
And we're not a community thatoffers like a service that we coach

(46:27):
you on for you to go and implement.
We offer life transformational moments foryou that go beyond sales, that help you to
think bigger about your life, because assoon as you make that $20,000 commission
check for the first time in your life at27-years-old, or 21 or 47, because you've
been jerked around your entire saleslife thinking that, you know, $2,000 or

(46:48):
$3,000 is acceptable, right, but insteadwe get you those big wins, that I'm
telling your life changes in a flash, andespecially with the things that we preach.
It's not, "Go buy a dope car and abig house," it's cool, how much time
does that buy you with your kids?
With yourself, with yourspouse, with your friends?
How much time does that buy youto invest back into your own life?

(47:09):
How many times do you need to make thatcheck in order to just stop altogether?
Having to make a big check, right?
And just go be a greeter atWalmart for the rest of your
life, and like, live in happiness.
Yeah.
And like we really, really,really, really preach the
identity of doing what you love.
And we believe that sales is a greatplace to start that, and that most people
will end up making sourdough and sellingit for $50 a loaf at like the local

(47:32):
farmer's market because of what theyfound in the process of becoming a rebel.
So rebellion is really a lifestyle.
The Sales Rebellion in our productoffering is life transformational.
It's not just, "Let's sell morestuff," it's, "Let's be better."
That's awesome.
That's awesome, and with that,I noticed, you know, you talk
a lot about the joy of selling.

(47:54):
It's, dude sales is not always joyful,you know that, and I think it's counter
cultural almost to talk about it being ajoy and something people can love doing.
Because for me, like I knowthrough my career, it's been
like, "Alright, this is the job.
This is the career I chose.
This is the path I went down.
This is what I'm stuck in," andthen coming back to it almost like

(48:15):
in the Young Frankenstein whereGene Wilder's saying, "Destiny!
Destiny!
No escaping!
That's for me!" That's how saleshas felt for me most of my career.
I try to avoid it, I try to be theFrankenstein, not Frankenstein, you
know, up until that moment where herealizes, "Oh, I am Frankenstein,
and for me, that's a challenge.

(48:36):
So tell me more aboutlike, that finding of joy.
Like what does that meanwithin sales to you?
And I mean, you've said a lot ofit I think here, but I'd love you
to just to kind of like sum it up.
Yeah.
Life is sales, and sales is lifeis the way that I look at it.
I don't box sales into likesome kind of compartment.
I see sales as like aliteral motion of life.
That in sales, just like in my life,I'm gonna meet strangers and have

(49:00):
the opportunity to be impactful tothose people, to give them something,
which is again, going back to theprinciples of serving leadership, but
also to the principles of just beinga good person and living a good life.
So if we really look at, like, life is,we wake up in the morning, we do, you
know, eight cold plunges and, you know,7,000 pushups or whatever y'all do.

(49:23):
And roll a banana onyour face and all that.
Banana water, and thenwe go to work, right?
We eat lunch.
We get outta work.
We hang out with friends.
Watch Severance, you know, like.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Life is very predictable, ultimately.
Yeah.
It's the same thing over and overagain, and it's very simple things,

(49:44):
and those things do what for us.
They bring us joy.
Except for work.
Hmm.
Right?
And the way that you described it, Ithink it's beautiful because it's, you
know, it's like, "Well, life hasn't beengood to me, bro." When I think of what
you just said about sales, like, butI still find joy in life all the time.
I think that the real opportunityis finding the failure.
That's what brings you joy.

(50:05):
I love it when somebody says somethinglike, "You know what? I don't like
what you're sending me in the mail.It's weird." Because it happens.
It's rare, but it happens.
I love that.
I love to say to that person, "Sorrythat it came across that way for you.
I'll cease and desist, hang up on theminstead of trying to like, do something
crazy with them, and then immediatelyI'll do a little research, call the front
desk, Hey, what's Jeff's favorite thing?"

(50:27):
And then like a ghost ora fart in the wind, right?
Like, I'm in and out and noone even knows I existed.
I'll send him something without myname attached to it, nothing, and
just say, "Hey, someone out here wantsyou to know that you're appreciated."
Because when I hear some people saythings like that, I think, man, they
don't get enough joy in their life.
They don't have the things that I have.
They don't have a incredible wife.

(50:50):
They don't have two amazing kidsthat I shouldn't even have, bro.
I should be dead.
My story is that 2014,I should have been gone.
Hmm.
Right?
I'm a miracle.
I'm a product of grace.
So when I think of joy, I think, bro,everything in life is joy for me, right?
Again, because of my story, because ofthe things I've experienced, because

(51:11):
of the fact that I shouldn't be sittinghere with you right now, which gives
me chills every time when I think aboutit, just how miraculous my existence
is, and I totally take advantage of it.
I eat too much.
I play too much, right?
But I love my life.
I love the good.
I love the bad.
I love the indifference.
I love the ugly, all of it.

(51:32):
I find joy in it.
Instead of stress and anxiety.
I'm a patient person.
I seek out moments where I have to testthat and challenge that, and in sales, I
think, like when you make the commitmentto it, what you have to understand is that
because it's a part of life, that's whyit's the hardest thing for people to do.
Because me and my preferences, I wouldprefer that my life look like this,

(51:54):
but I am not the driver, and that's thething that most people don't understand.
Like, I might impact the decisions throughmy action and my free will if we even
have that in the first place, right?
Sometimes it doesn't feel likeit, but sure, I have to be the
one that makes the decisions.
But man, like if I could just likesurrender and die to myself every day, my

(52:16):
life would be full of joy, and those arethe decisions that I made a long time ago.
You know, so a kid is gettingoutta hand at the home front,
standing up in his chair, you know,screaming and yelling at his mom.
Like, sure, there's an appropriate wayto reprimand that child and to help
that child learn versus one that's not.

(52:37):
But you can find joy in that moment.
Just like when someone tells you to,"F off and never email me again."
You can find joy in that moment.
I'm going to literally, I'm gonnawrite an email, I'm gonna print it.
I'm gonna send in the mail with a littlenote that says, "Hey, you said never
to email you again. So, I sent this onein the mail," and literally when I call
back or behind that guy, I like, eitherthey have a restraining order, you know?

(53:02):
Like it's over.
Yeah.
Or they got a really good momentfrom that, even if it wasn't like a
chuckle, it was more like impressiveor intense, you know, can't
believe this guy actually did this.
Yeah.
Which hopefully just opens people'smind to what joy really is.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I mean, the way you'redescribing it too, it's not just, and

(53:26):
I've always thought of joy this way too,of like, it's not just about having fun.
Joy is really more than just beingpleased with something in the moment,
or, you know, something that like whata Marie Kondo, like, sparks joy in you.
You know, it's not justsomething that makes you happy.
Joy can be something that you feeleven when things are tough, and

(53:46):
having that ability to identify that.
I think that's a great perspectiveon it because a lot of people,
including myself, you know,you're gonna get down on yourself.
You're gonna get frustrated, oh, Ididn't close this, I didn't close that.
Oh, this didn't go my way.
And all of a sudden things startto fall apart and it's really easy
to, get stuck in those moments.
And then just to give up entirely.
So,

(54:08):
I think that's a, that's a really goodperspective on it, so that's awesome.
So you mentioned you're doing Totality.
What, what is Totality?
Tell me about that.
Yeah, simply put, If people are readyfor something different, if they're
ready for something that isn't gonnateach them to be a better seller or a
better marketer, or a better businessowner, but it's gonna teach them to take

(54:32):
risks, to challenge themselves, to dothings that are unpopular, if you will,
with the end goal in mind of becominga better person, that will subsequently
make them better at their profession,Totality is for you, and it really,
what we decided is like there's a lot ofpeople out there that's like, "We're the

(54:53):
anti-sales conference," or, "We're theanti-conference," and then you go to 'em,
and it's like, are you sure about that?
It's just a conference.
Y'all are still just throwinga conference together.
It's just, I'm not getting pitchedas much as I normally would.
I'm still getting pitched, right?
Ours is a community-based concept thatyou don't know the agenda when you come.
You know that there's speakers, butwe also don't have any speakers.

(55:15):
It's nothing but live workshops.
Oh, wow.
It's nothing but interactiveworkshops as well too.
Oh.
So like you're immersed intosomething that you didn't even know
was gonna happen in the first place.
You have to do something.
You can't just nurse ahangover the whole time.
That's true, and actually there'sno alcohol at Totality either.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, we do everything actually againstthe grain of the way the conferences work.

(55:35):
So we make it exciting.
There's tons of twists and turns, lotsof very just experiential moments for
people instead of just like a, "Oh,that was a great talk," it's like a,
"I participated in what just happenedjust now that I didn't know was gonna
even happen in the first place."
We have it at a place wecall the Rebel Hideaway.

(55:55):
Which is really fun because the loreof The Sales Rebellion is that there's
all these mythological creatures andpeople like The Copier Warrior, and
we've got a guy with a personal brandcalled The Finance Viking, and it's fun.
Like we've built this mythical placeand all this lore where you come and
experience that lore, dude, in person.
It's like you said earlier,there's more to this name, dude.

(56:16):
I feel some like something go, I'm a nerd.
I said it right earlier.
I'm a nerd man.
Like, when people come to Totality, theirlife changes because of what we desire for
them, not what we want to build ourselves.
Like we're meeting people where they are.
Like most people, that came forTotality One, 90% of the feedback
was, "I would normally, I wouldnever say yes to something like this.

(56:40):
I didn't even know what to pack.
In my back, other than a toothbrush,"you know, "but I just trusted
that this was gonna be insaneand holy cow, you delivered." And
that was just the first one, bro.
On a shoestring budget, you know andlosing money, even like, you know,
like, so imagine what it's gonnalook like in year two, and then I've
already planned 10 of these, man.

(57:00):
I've never told anybody thatoutside of the close circle.
So you're getting an exclusive righthere, but I've planned 10 of these.
So, who, because who knows, you know.
Like what, eventually when you buildsomething, what you're trying to work
toward, the thought is that in mostcases we have this idea of the outcome.
Man, I'm here for the journey.

(57:21):
So when I sat down and made thefirst one, I was like, okay, but
what does the second one look like?
And then by the time I got to 10,I went, oh man, I'm feeling this.
I'm feeling this, and the idea isthat if we can, it ultimately allow
people to dream the same way that weare through Totality and giving them
permission to just think outside thebox, to be rebellious, to be more
creative in their work life and theirpersonal life, to be more present in

(57:45):
their work life and their personal life,to really like experience this thing
that we get to do as people together.
We were talking about the actualTotality, like the eclipse, right?
Going to that, like a lot of peoplehave never experienced that, dude.
It, and then the people that have,when you ask 'em like, what was it like

(58:08):
if they didn't have their phone outrecording everything, they'll say, "Oh
my God. Buddy, you suddenly realizehow small you are in the grand scheme
of things when everything goes black."
Right.
From a moon in front of a sun.
Like this is insane what'shappening right now.
Right, but.
Right.
That's what exactly the kind of feelingwe want people to have at Totality.

(58:28):
We wanna break you to thepoint of like, oh my God, am
I letting them do this to me.
Sadness and overwhelming emotionsof man, am I doing enough, man?
Am I trying hard enough?
Absolutely.
What we want you to feel in those moments.
Wow.
Because otherwise you go to a conferenceand you leave and you're like, oh my
God, that was great, and then you getpitched for nine weeks, you know, from

(58:49):
a bunch of people you never met togo, thanks for coming by our booth.
You know?
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
This is such a nightmare,right, in general.
And then ultimately, it's this ideatoo of like micro meetups, if you will.
So we cap it at 150.
I'll probably do less than that this year.
We did a hundred people a year one.
We had a hurricane, like literally.
Oh wow.

(59:10):
Eye of the Storm came overwhere we had the event.
Right.
Were you in East Tennesseeor where were you this year?
Yeah, we were here.
We were up here in Knoxville.
Yeah.
And we're here again.
Golly.
This year, right?
It's about like, we still had anamazing turnout even with, despite
the storm people still landedsomehow and got to the event.
It was crazy, dude.
Yeah.
Right?

(59:30):
And we got to experience whatit's like to just like have a
hundred people in a room, right?
Like, so we're not gonnago much bigger than that.
I'll probably cap it at 125.
We're like 50, 60% tickets sold right now.
This time last year we hadnine tickets sold, right?
Like, it's a whole newthing for us, right?
But I believe we're doing it right.
I believe that we're doing it effectively.
I believe that we've started something.

(59:52):
I won't be surprised to see other peopledoing it too and giving us zero credit,
which is totally fine, but I won'tbe surprised by that at all because
man, people are looking for this.
And that's the ultimate outcome of thequestion is that you're looking for this.
If you're listening to this right now,and you're hearing this, I promise
you that even if you don't thinkyou are, I bet when you show up and

(01:00:14):
have the experience that you leavegoing, holy cow, I needed that so bad.
More than I knew.
Yeah, I could definitely, I mean, Icould definitely see that, 'cause I
actually had a chance, I was spyingon you a bunch last night doing my
research for this interview, but I lookedat a little bit of your documentary
series that you did on last yearand everything you're doing there.
And I could tell, like it'sdefinitely a different event.

(01:00:37):
It's definitely something thatpeople, I think would really get
a lot out of, especially beingin, having been in the sales room.
Like I've been in a room in an auditoriumin Little Rock, Arkansas with Zig Ziglar
and his whole crew of people, which aren'tdirect salespeople, but they definitely
are, you know, the motivational types.
And they'll tell you how to geta million dollars overnight if

(01:00:57):
you sign up for this one thing.
And I think Rudy Giuliani spoke at that.
He did.
Yeah.
Shoot.
Good Lord.
Yeah.
That was wild.
Sorry.
I know.
Thank you.
Yeah, I didn't notice the oil runningdown the face or anything, but yeah.
Anyways, so that was, that was just awild, flashback in my head just now, but
yeah, you know, like you're used to thator you're used to these sales training

(01:01:20):
events you have to go to, and it's like, Imean, again, I'll go back to my AT&T days.
It's like, I would be in a room in,you know, Dallas, Texas, and you just
be in a windowless room for hours onend and learning sales principles and
reading things and falling asleep andtrying to stay awake and hope you can
get to the evening when you can useyour per diem and go out and get some
good food and beer and just be done.

(01:01:42):
So the idea that you're doing itdifferently, even down to no alcohol,
to, for, I don't know if it's a personalprinciple that you're not doing that
for, or if it's a, "Hey, we want peopleto be focused at this conference,
and we don't want the hangovers atthe every day during the event," but
that idea alone is like different.
It stands out and it's gonna be forpeople that want that difference.

(01:02:03):
And I think that that's cool.
So.
Yeah, I think you're doing something neat.
Thanks, dude.
I
think you're doing some cool stuff,and I'm not just saying that to
like just brag on you, but I've beenreally fascinated with everything
you've done with The Sales Rebellion.
So it's really neat to be ableto learn more about it today,
learn more about what you
're doing.
Last question on The Sales Rebellion.
I noticed on the website you have abutton for submitting a prayer request.

(01:02:25):
What's that about?
My business is a ministry.
Just like I said, that sales is life.
I also believe that like in all facets ofeverything that I do, that I want to make
sure that people understand my purviewis, or really like I should say, that the
vision of my life is not what I'll do onthis Earth, it's eternal, is the idea.

(01:02:50):
It's that I'm looking atsomething completely different
than what everybody else is.
So when you see a website and you seethis cool thing that this guy is doing,
I really want people to understandtoo that like, I don't find that to be
the most important thing in my life.
Most important thing in my life ispeople, and ultimately in my faith
and the way that I live my faith, andI practice my faith, and I've learned

(01:03:12):
my faith, and I've become deeplyingrained in my faith is that people
matter more than we have let on.
And that in most cases, somethingas simple as letting a person, which
by the way, we have thousands ofsubmissions, letting a person just
reflect for a minute, first on likewhat they're grateful for and then

(01:03:33):
what we could pray for them for.
And like knowing, even if we never contactthem, if they're not interested in that,
knowing that someone out there is liftingthem up, even if they don't believe in
the same God that I do, or they don'tfollow the same religious principles that
I do, just knowing that a person caresthat much to stop what they're doing and
lift them up, or to take a minute outof their morning and to lift them up.

(01:03:56):
It's that joy principle thatwe keep coming back to in
this conversation, really.
How do I give people joy intheir life by helping them to
see how important they truly are?
And again, like through my religiousprinciples, I think that, I believe.
I'm a follower of Jesus, bro.
To me, it's that, right?
It's love for everyone, man.

(01:04:17):
Eternal love too, not just whileyou're here on earth, but this
idea of like, where are you headed?
What does the story look like whenyou're gone, who will you bring
with you through the process?
I just, I think that we look atthat as more of a fairy tale than
we do as reality in this generationand in this world in general.

(01:04:37):
I think that we've dumbed religion down tojust a church, like an organization, even.
We don't live it on a daily basis.
It's just Sunday or wheneverwe did our Hail Marys.
Shoutout to my Catholicfriend over here, but
the real principle to me is like,well, what, what about every other day?
What about every other moment?

(01:04:58):
What about the ability to be ableto let other people in on what it is
that you do without it being a placewhere they think they might be judged?
Or where they don't believe they can go.
Right.
But if you give them thatoutlet, and that's why there's
a prayer request on the page.
I love it.
That's awesome.
I'm a big believer in like,well, I'm a big believer, period.

(01:05:18):
I am a Christian as well, but one ofthe things I'm big on is, like, not just
including a Jesus fish on your websiteif you're gonna preach your faith.
Like, that to me is the most annoyingthing ever because how many times
have you seen it there, and then youknow something about that company, and
you're like, or you've heard somethingabout them like that just completely
discredits everything else about that.

(01:05:40):
I think it's a very, it's not the worstthing in the world, but like claiming it
versus doing it is something different.
So seeing that button on your websitereally stuck out to me is like, oh,
he's really doing it, and hearingyou get people submitting and stuff,
like, that's a great way to connectwith people, and you know, even if
you're not going to respond directlyto them through that, it's just

(01:06:00):
an anonymous prayer request thing.
Like the fact that you're doingthat, you're thinking you're praying,
like all that stuff is awesome.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just found it really neat.
So.
Thanks, bro.
Our mission statement, just for everybodyhere, is to tear down the castles of
the old guard and to build a kingdomof rebels, and that kingdom mindset is
really what we lead with in all things.
That's so cool.
So in the way that we wear ourministry and our sleeves, so.

(01:06:22):
Yeah.
That'
s awesome.
Okay, well this is, We Built This Brand.
I always have this wrap up question,so I'm gonna ask it to you anyway.
You know, I always like to know like whatbrand, out of everything that you deal
with and everything in your life rightnow, what brand do you admire the most?
I think the most disruptive brandright now that I admire a lot, I

(01:06:43):
think a lot of people, don't like thebrand because of their name, mostly.
And they've done some reallyweird stunts as well too.
Like, I saw something, actually a guyin my network, friend of mine showed
me like where they hired a witchdoctor for an advertisement, right?
Uhhuh.
Like it was total stunt, right?
Uhhuh.
But they made people think that theywere like cursing their product for

(01:07:04):
everybody to be cursed, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Total stunt, right?
But anyway, but so I think they geta bad rap because of things like that
in some circles, but bro, they arethe literal definition of disruptive,
and they're called Liquid Death.
Oh, yeah.
And when you think about how theystarted, there's three things
that I admire the most about them.
One is just that the world was inundatedwith cans of energy drinks, right?

(01:07:28):
So when you go to the gas station,you can get a can of energy drink or a
plastic bottle of water, and a lot ofthe time it's an emotional decision, man.
So you look at this cool can withthis awesome artwork, and like,
I could use a little energy, evento an extent, and you buy that.
And like water's just like, Ican get that outta the sink.

(01:07:49):
Yeah.
Whatever.
And so they've disrupted thatwhole mindset of the consumer that
goes in to buy, and this is real.
These are facts, bro.
These are, I've learneda lot about this brand.
I really admire them.
I'm trying to give them to bethe main sponsor of Totality.
It'll happen one day.
Don't worry about that, but the secondthing that I love is that part of their
model too was like going to bars andsaying, hey, like, you know, instead of

(01:08:13):
this like, tap water out of this gun,you put our water up here, and just
like, 'cause it's so metal, like you saidearlier about me and my existence, right?
Like these guys, they are so smart.
They go to all these bars and they go,"Here. Here's cases of our water. Sell
it to your people," and people justbuy it because it looks like a, you
know, like a big can of beer, right?
Like literally, that's why peoplepsychologically we're just like, oh,

(01:08:35):
this is cool, and then they drink16 ounces of water after too many
drinks, which helps to sober them up.
Right.
Which helps their health in general.
Maybe not.
Maybe I'm a little, it's a stretch thereto say that, but again, the thought
of how to disrupt a bar market withwater is, it's a losing thought, right?

(01:08:55):
Yeah.
Unless you're Liquid Death, and thenthe third thing that I admire the
most about them is they are so riskywith the way that they advertise.
I mean, like pregnant moms drinkingtheir water for the Super Bowl ad, I
think is what it was, and like, they sella casket full of their water because.
Yeah.
And just their whole mantraof like, "Murder your thirst."
What a genius idea, man.

(01:09:18):
I mean, they're a really disruptive brand.
Again, I respect the people out therethat don't like the word "death" on a can
that they're drinking water out of, orsome of the weird stuff that they've done.
But like, it's like I saidearlier, I'm that guy, bro.
I'll hang out with those people, right?
I don't have to be a part ofthem, but like you can influence
people that way as well too.
Oh yeah.
And ultimately, I do thinkto an extent too, like you

(01:09:42):
should learn about these guys.
I've gotten to know some of 'emover the time that I've spent,
like trying to get them to sponsorus, and they're good people, dude.
And I think at the core of what they'redoing, they're misunderstood by the
public, but they're a huge brandnow because there's a lot of us out
there that like, dude, every time Istop for water, I grab or at a gas
station for what used to be a Dasani.

(01:10:04):
Dasani is disgusting.
A Smart Water.
Whatever, you know.
I just grab a Liquid Death now, dude.
Yeah.
I don't even think about it.
I get two, as a matter of fact, everytime, and I think a lot of people do
that because they see less plastic.
There's still plastic in those cans.
For sure.
There's a lining of plastic init, but less plastic, you know.
It's promoting something different.

(01:10:24):
It's super, just, it's fun.
You know, like, especially if youdon't have kids going, "What's a
Liquid Death?" You know, like, althoughmy kids don't even question that.
Oh yeah.
They just go, "dad, thedesign on that is so dope.,"
You know?
I'm like, yeah, it's cool.
Right.
So yeah.
Anyway, that's, I think thoseguys are doing it right.
Yeah.
No, no, for sure.
My 6-year-old was asking me the other dayif he could get Liquid Death, and it's
always cute hearing it from your son.

(01:10:45):
"Daddy, can I have LiquidDeath?" I'm like, yeah, okay.
Yeah, sure.
That's fine.
Yeah.
Whatever.
You can have Liquid Death, son.
I got carded buying itthe other day, by the way.
Like.
No way.
Someone actually carded you?
Swear to God.
I was like, they go, "When's yourbirthday? I need your ID," and I was like.
You do realize this is water?
I just looked at 'em and was like,well, this is gonna be awkward for you.
And I pulled my ID out and I handedit to 'em, and they were like, "Why?"

(01:11:08):
And they rang it up, and it goes thiswater, and they're like, "Oh my God.
Yeah.
That is awkward."
I am, I am in shock.
But that's hilarious.
That's funny, right?
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, I mean, Liquid Deathis just one of those brands
you just can't get away from.
Like, they're just so good at branding andmarketing and their content is amazing.

(01:11:28):
They partnered with ELF Cosmetics.
Yes.
Yes.
To do like a whole makeup kit too.
Like, they do the wildest things.
I just love it.
I just love it.
So that's awesome.
Well, good.
Well, Dale, where canpeople connect with you?
Where can people find out about you?
Maybe even sign up forTotality if they're interested?
Yeah, you can.
Everything that we do, you canfind on salesrebellion.com.

(01:11:50):
We're doing a lot of changes tothe website and whatnot and the
brand, but Totality on there, alot of our resources are on there.
Our advisory programs, stuffthat we talked about earlier.
Really, I would recommendpeople to just Google my name.
I know that sounds like kind ofyou know, vain or egotistical, but
it's just kind of simple to find,and I have a lot of guest podcasts.

(01:12:14):
I have a lot of just PRin general that I've done.
So if people want to just like snag somefree resources and learn a little bit more
about our methodology, what we do, how wechange the game, how we differentiate, how
we lead as servants, you know, just Googlemy name or Google The Sales Rebellion.
In general, our content feeds, ourbest ones are LinkedIn for sure.
It's where most of our audience is, butyou can find me on all the major channels.

(01:12:36):
I'm a TikToker, not really, but sortof, I dabble in the Tiky Toky with
my own videos, but wherever it'smost accessible to the listeners, but
ultimately, like salesrebellion.com iswhere you get all the resources, and
then again, there's plenty of free stuffout there for people to come and just
learn and start thinking like a rebel.
Excellent.
Well, Dale, thank youso much for coming on.

(01:12:57):
Appreciate the time.
It's been a pleasure.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Leading The Sales Rebellion with Dale Dupree

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

All Episodes

Leading The Sales Rebellion with Dale Dupree

On Purpose with Jay Shetty