The Circleville Letters: When Your Neighbor Becomes Your Nightmare

THE CIRCLEVILLE LETTERS: AMERICA'S MOST DISTURBING ANONYMOUS THREAT CAMPAIGN


For over two decades, someone in Circleville, Ohio waged one of the most extensive campaigns of psychological terror in American history. Thousands of letters. Hundreds of victims. Secrets, accusations, and threats that knew too much about people's private lives.


In 1976, school bus driver Mary Gillispie started receiving letters accusing her of having an affair with her boss. The letters were graphic, detailed, and deeply disturbing...created with cut-out magazine letters like something out of a ransom note. But Mary wasn't the only target. Her husband Ron received letters too, taunting him for not stopping his wife's alleged affair.


Then in 1977, Ron Gillispie died in a single-vehicle crash after receiving a mysterious phone call. Was it an accident, or did the letter writer's harassment turn deadly?


The letters continued for years, escalating in 1983 when someone constructed a booby trap designed to kill Mary...a gun rigged to fire when she removed a sign from her bus route. Mary narrowly escaped with her life.


Paul Freshour, Ron's brother-in-law, was convicted of attempted murder and sent to prison. Case closed, right?


Except the letters never stopped. They continued while Paul sat in a cell with no way to mail anonymous letters. For years, the letters kept coming, containing the same intimate knowledge of Circleville's secrets, the same threatening tone, the same cut-out magazine style.


So who really wrote the Circleville Letters? Was Paul Freshour innocent, framed by the real letter writer who's still out there? Did he have an accomplice who continued his work? Or were there multiple letter writers all along?

Keywords: True Crime, Unsolved Mystery, Circleville Letters, Anonymous Letters, Stalking, Ohio, Cold Case, 1970s Crime, 1980s Crime, Psychological Terror, Small Town Crime, Paul Freshour, Mary Gillispie, Pickaway County, Harassment Campaign, Attempted Murder, Wrongful Conviction

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happy places. But every sunny space
holds a shadow. Behind every smile, our sharp teeth, and
every happy place has something sinister lurking just below the surface.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to We Saw the Devil, the podcast diving deep
into the chilling realms of true crime. Join your host
Robin as she unravels mysteries that have left investigators baffled
and armchair sleuth's obsessed. Be forewarned, Dear listener, We Saw
the Devil is not for the faint of heart. Our
unflinching exploration will take you to the darkest corners of

(00:41):
the psyche, and through the unimaginable depths of human darkness,
to unearthed stark secrets, to the harsh light of day.
Nothing will be left untouched. Are you ready? Are you sure?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
We Saw the Devil? Hey guys, it's wrong and you're
listening to We Saw the Devil. Welcome to your HQ
for all beings strange and unusual. And I'm super excited
about this one because we are getting back to true crime.
And don't forget. The podcast is now also host to
a sub podcast slash show that I'm doing called Red,

(01:16):
White and bruised. And that's for more left leaning individuals
I guess, who need to process the absolute mess and
shit show that is modern American politics. So basically all
the warmand fuzzies here, all the way around before we
get into it. If you are into what I'm doing here,
please follow the show on Instagram at We Saw the
Devil podcast. You can find it on Facebook and Twitter

(01:38):
at We Saw the Devil, or the website, which is
currently in progress again at wesawthedevil dot com. If you
want to reach out questions, thoughts, complaints, compliments, whatever, my
email and my inbox is always open and actually respond.
But how have you guys been? How has your week been?
Mine has been busy and exhausting. I did put out

(02:01):
the last episode quite literally thirty minutes before the shutdown ended,
so that was fun. And then later the next morning,
the Supreme Court decided not to take up the gay
marriage case, which, first of all, yay, right, yay finger snaps,
But then secondly, that's pretty much what the last episode

(02:21):
was about. That was fun. Timing is apparently not my
strong suit, and I could have saved myself a lot
of time had I just waited even six hours. But
here we are. What have you guys been up to.
I have just been working and spending time with the dogs.
That is seriously it. I am beyond exhausted. I don't
know what is wrong with me, but I can barely

(02:43):
function some days. I'm just so tired. But all of
my energy goes into work and dogs and that's about it.
We are getting closer to the holiday season, and you guys, okay,
I'm not one to dick another person's yum. I'm not
one to put other women down. I hate it when
women are called basic, but like I am a I
am that basic bitch, you guys. When a single leaf

(03:03):
turns color, I am all over that. I bust out
the hoodie, the T shirts like you know the jeans,
switch out my birken Stocks to the Boston clogs. I
am on at you guys. It is apple cider, pumpkin, white, chocolate,
cranberry orange. It is this season. You get what I'm

(03:25):
throwing down, and it has been so wonderful. I am
such a winter person. I could live in Alaska, so
you will probably notice my mood change. I have like
a reverse seasonal effective disorder. I swear to God, but
it's my time of year. It's finally here. Other than working,
not up to a lot else. I always mention what
I'm watching and I just started today Pluribus, which is

(03:49):
on Apple TV. Now. If you have not heard of this,
it's basically an author. She's apparently the most miserable person
in the world. There's some sort of alien viceris that
takes over where humanity. A bunch of people die, but
humanity becomes a collective with the aliens, so like every
single person that remains in the world is one single being, right,

(04:12):
And so this woman, she's an author, she is miserable.
The alien thing happens, and she's one of like eleven
people who aren't impacted or infected. There's only two episodes
so far, and I am in love, Like I don't
think I've actually loved a show this much, and I
can't even remember how long. So it's like a dark
comedy and it's from the same maker as Vince what's

(04:35):
his name of Breaking Bad, So I guess the show
does have pedigree of some sort. But check it out
if you're looking for a new show. I am thoroughly
into it. I did try Welcome to Dairy the new
Pennywise the Clown you Know It origin story show. I
guess couldn't get into it, and you guys know how
much I love horror, and I just couldn't get into it.
But that's pretty much all that I have to report

(04:56):
on my side. Today's episode is going to be an
interesting one. This is a story that I heard about
quite a while ago, and I kind of made an
entry into my mental rolodex that I would like to
cover this case one day, and apparently that day is nigh.
This episode is about the Circleville Letters, America's most disturbing
anonymous threat campaign. Imagine checking your mailbox and finding a letter.

(05:19):
But this isn't a bill, a birthday card, anything like that.
It's a message that knows things about you, intimate things, secret,
things that no one else should know, things that only
you should know. Now imagine getting another one, and another
and another. For over two decades, the small town of Circleville,

(05:41):
Ohio became the hunting ground for one of America's most
prolific and disturbing anonymous letter writers. We are talking thousands
of letters, hundreds of victims, threats, accusations, intimate secrets. They
all spilled across pages and cut out magazine letters you know,

(06:01):
like the ransom font and then also bizarre block writing.
It's wild. These letters destroyed marriages into careers and may
have even led to murder. One man went to prison
for the crimes. But here's the thing. After he went
to prison, the letters never stopped. They continued for years

(06:21):
after he was locked away. And these letters taunted both
investigators and victims, so that meant that either they had
the wrong person or that the letter writer had an
accomplice who was still out there doing this, watching, stalking, waiting,
and writing. So again, this is the story of the
Circleville Letters, and this is a case where we really

(06:43):
still don't know who was actually behind it, because it
truly is one of the most extensive campaigns of psychological
terror in American history. So let me set the scene.
It's nineteen seventy six and we are in Circleville, Ohio,
a small town of about thirteen thousand people in Pickaway County,
about thirty miles south of Columbus. This is the type

(07:05):
of place that just has a couple stop signs. Everyone
knows everyone. Reputation is everything, what you know about each
other is more or less the social currency. And this
isn't necessarily a bad place. It's actually known for the
Circleville Pumpkin Show, which is one of the largest festivals
in all of Ohio. Hundreds of thousands of people go

(07:25):
every October to this Pumpkin Show. It's more or less
just Americana. But in nineteen seventy six, something was bad
wrong in Circleville, Ohio. It all started with Mary Gillespie.
She was a school bus driver in her thirties and
married to Ron Gillespie. Mary was, by all accounts, a
good person, responsible, well, liked doing her job day in

(07:49):
day out. Everyone in the community loved her. But someone
had their eyes on Mary, and they had a lot
of things to say about her. The first letters Mary
received were typed. The later ones were created with letters
cut from magazines and newspapers. You guys know the one.
It's like that classic ransom note style that you see
in every single heist or ransom movie. But these weren't

(08:12):
asking Mary for money. They were making accusations. The letters
accused Mary of having an affair with Gordon Massey, the
superintendent of schools, also her boss. They were graphic, explicit
and described encounters between Gordon and Mary that only someone
present would have known. These letters contained information about Mary's

(08:35):
daily routine, where she went, what time she did things,
how long she did things. Whoever was writing these letters
was watching her. But Mary wasn't the only target. Her husband,
Ron started getting letters too, and these letters told Ron
about his wife's affair and taunted him for not doing
anything about it. You could stop this if you wanted to.

(08:56):
One letter, read whoever was writing them. The author deliberately
trying to destroy their marriage and to push Ron to act.
And that's exactly where it gets darker. Gordon Massey and
his wife also started receiving letters. Gordon was being accused
of the affair as well, and the letters to his
wife were designed to humiliate and destroy his marriage. The

(09:19):
letters were again crude, cruel, and oddly specifically detailed. They
referenced specific times, specific places, and specific people in ways
that suggested the writer either lived in Circleville or spent
a lot of time there. This wasn't some random nineteen
seventy six troll. This was someone local, someone who knew

(09:41):
all of these people, and someone who was actively watching
for Mary and Ron Gillespie. The letters created a living nightmare.
Even if there was no affair, and Mary vehemently denied it,
the constant accusations were corrosive. Imagine every day wondering who
who around you wrote the letters. Was it your next

(10:03):
or neighbor, a coworker, someone from your church. The letters
continued frequently through nineteen seventy six and into nineteen seventy seven.
Mary reported them to the police, but what could they do.
There were no threats of violence initially, just accusations and
harassment of infidelity. And in a small town in the

(10:24):
nineteen seventies, this kind of thing was uncomfortable. It was
embarrassing even in twenty twenty five, and small American towns
like this, whether it's in the south, Southwest, Midwest, wherever.
In little towns like this, that's the kind of thing
that people don't want to talk about. Ron Gillespie became
increasingly agitated and paranoid. He was convinced someone was targeting

(10:48):
his family and he was determined to find out who
it was, so he started his own investigation, asking around town,
trying to identify suspects. The letters had mentioned specific detail
that suggested the writer might be someone on their street,
someone who could watch Mary's comings and goings. Ron focused
on several of their neighbors, but one in particular caught

(11:10):
his attention. Paul fresh Hour, the husband of Ron's own sister,
Karen Sue. Paul and Karen lived nearby, and Ron began
to suspect that Paul might be involved somehow. As this
was all happening, the tension in Circleville was building. The
letters were no longer just Mary's problem. They were becoming

(11:31):
the town's problem. People were gossiping, taking sides, wondering who
could be doing this and why. And then on August nineteenth,
nineteen seventy seven, a phone call changed everything. Ron Gillespie
received a phone call at home, and we don't know
exactly what was said on that call, but we know
how Ron reacted to it. He grabbed his gun, got

(11:53):
in his truck and tore out of his driveway. He
was driving very fast, too fast, down rural road in
the dark. And what happened next is where facts get
a little murky. But what we do know is that
at some point Ron's truck went off the road and
struck a tree. The crash was violent, and Ron Gillespie
died at the scene. The official ruling was that it

(12:16):
was a single vehicle accident, likely caused by Ron driving
under the influence. His blood alcohol level was elevated, and
the investigation concluded that Ron had been drinking, drove too fast,
lost control, and crashed. But Mary didn't believe it. She
was convinced that the phone call Ron received had something
to do with his death. Had the letter writer threatened him,

(12:39):
lured him somewhere, told him something that made him drive recklessly,
And here's what makes it more suspicious. After Ron's death,
the letters didn't stop. In fact, they escalated. Mary continued
to receive letters, and now they had a new tone.
Some seemed to take credit for Ron's death, suggesting it
wasn't an accident of all. Now, when are you going

(13:02):
to believe me? You're going to get killed when letter read?
Was Ron Gillespie murdered? Did the letter writer cause his
death through that phone call? Or was it truly just
a tragic accident and the letter writer was simply a
sadistic opportunist who took credit after the fact because it
was convenient. We'll never know, but Ron's death marked a

(13:22):
turning point in the Circleville Letters case. What had been
a campaign of harassment had now potentially turned deadly. After
Ron Gillespie's death, you might think the letter writer would
back off. Maybe they'd be scared of police attention, worried
they'd gone too far. But that's not what happened. The
letters intensified. Mary Gillespie continued to be the primary target,

(13:44):
but the scope expanded. Other people in Circleville started receiving letters.
The superintendent, Gordon Massey, the sheriff, local business owners, even
the county prosecutor. The letter writer seemed to have an
encyclopedic knowledge of Circleville's private lives. Who was cheating on whom,
who had money problems, who had addictions, who had secrets

(14:07):
they desperately wanted to keep hidden. The letters were postmarked
from Columbus, Ohio, about thirty miles away, which made them
harder to trace. The writer was being careful, not mailing
them locally where they might be spotted or identified at
the post office. For years, Mary lived with a constant
psychological warfare of these letters. She kept driving her school

(14:29):
bus route, kept living her life, but was always looking
over her shoulder, always wondering who was watching. In March
of nineteen eighty three, six years after Ron's death, something
happened that moved this case from psychological harassment into attempted murder.
Mary was driving her school bus route as normal as
she did every single day, but on this particular day,

(14:51):
she noticed something strange. On Coto Township Road two four seven.
A sign had been placed near the road, presumably for
her to see. The sign had Mary's name on it,
and it had an obscene message. Mary had dealt with
enough of this harassment. She wasn't going to take this one.
After she finished her bus route and dropped off all
the children, and this is important, she did make sure

(15:13):
all of the kids were safe first, she went back
to remove the sign. When Mary approached the sign and
reached down to pull it out of the ground, she
noticed something attached to it, a wire, and that wire
led to a box. Mary stopped. She didn't touch it.
She went and called the police immediately. When the Sheriff's
apartment arrived and examined the device, they found that someone

(15:36):
had created a booby trap. The box contained a loaded
gun rigged to fire when the sign was removed. If
Mary had pulled that sign out of the ground, she
would have been shot This wasn't a prank, This wasn't
harassment anymore. This was a tempted murder, plain and simple.
Someone had carefully planned and constructed a device assigned to

(15:59):
kill Mary Gillespie, and they'd done it in a way
that showed they knew her route, knew she'd see the sign,
and knew she'd want to remove it. The investigation intensified.
This was no longer just about nasty letters. Someone in
Circleville had tried to commit murder and law enforcement needed
to find them before they tried again. And going back,

(16:21):
remember Paul fresh Hour, Ron Gillespie's brother in law married
to Ron's sister, Karen Sue where Ron had suspected Paul
might be involved with the letters before his death. Now
with an attempted murder, police took a much harder look
at Paul. Paul fresh Hour worked at Anheuser Busch and was,
by all accounts, a great regular guy. But investigators started

(16:44):
building a case against him. They analyzed the letters, looked
at writing samples, examined his background and his relationship with
the Gillespies. The gun used in the booby trap became
a key piece of evidence. Ballistics showed it was the
same make and model as a gun Paul fresh Hour owned.
While Paul claimed he'd sold that gun years earlier, he
couldn't produce paperwork proving the sale. Then there was the handwriting.

(17:07):
While most of the letters were created with cutout magazine letters,
some had handwritten elements. Authorities brought in handwriting experts who
said the writing appeared to match Paul fresh Hour's handwriting.
Paul fresh Hour was arrested and charged with attempted murder.
The trial took place in nineteen eighty three, and it
was a media sensation for Central Ohio. And here was

(17:30):
the answer everyone had been waiting for the identity of
the Circleville letter writer. The prosecution's case centered on several points.
The gun used in the booby trap matched the type
Paul had owned. Handwriting analysis suggested Paul wrote at least
some of the letters. Paul had motive. He was allegedly

(17:50):
angry at Ron Gillespie for suspecting him to begin with,
and Paul had opportunity. He lived in the area and
could easily observe Mary's daily routines. But here's the thing.
The case was completely circumstantial. There was no direct evidence
placing Paul at the scene of the booby trap. No
one saw him construct it or place it. No fingerprints

(18:11):
tied him to the device or the letters. The handwriting analysis,
while presented as scientific, is notoriously subjective and has been
questioned in many, many, many cases. Paul fresh Hour maintained
his innocence throughout the entire trial. He admitted he'd had
disputes with Ron Gillespie in the past, but denied writing
any letters and certainly denied trying to kill Mary Gillespie.

(18:33):
He claimed he was being framed and that someone was
setting him up to take the fall for crimes they committed,
but the jury didn't believe him. In nineteen eighty three,
Paul fresh Hour was convicted of attempted murder. He was
sentenced to seven to twenty five years in prison. Case
closed right, the Circleville letter writer was behind bars. The
town easily could have peace. Except that's not what happened.

(18:57):
And here's where the Circleville Letters case goes from disturbing
to genuinely actually kind of scary. Paul fresh Hour went
to prison in nineteen eighty three. He was locked in
a cell monitored twenty four to seven no access to
the outside world except through supervised channels. He couldn't mail
letters without them being screened, and he couldn't make phone
calls without them being logged and listened to. And yet

(19:19):
the letters continued. Mary Gillespie kept receiving letters, and so
did other people in Circleville. The letters had the same style,
the same cutout magazine format, the same intimate knowledge of
Circleville affairs, and the same threatening tone. This should have
been impossible. If Paul fresh Hour was a letter writer

(19:40):
and Paul fresh Hour was in prison with no way
to send anonymous letters, then how are letters still being sent.
There are a few possible explanations here. Theory number one,
Paul had an accomplice. Maybe Paul was involved in writing
the letters before prison, but maybe he had a partner
or or someone who continued the campaign after he was

(20:02):
locked up. But who would that be And if there
was an accomplice, why didn't they stop once Paul was convicted?
Why risk exposure by continuing? Theory two is that Paul
was innocent and the real letter writer was still free.
Third theory, there were multiple letter writers. Maybe the original
letters were written by one person, but after the case

(20:23):
became famous, copycat writers started sending their own that would
explain the continuation, but in my opinion, probably unlikely that
copycats would have had the same detailed knowledge of all
of everyone's lives. And then, lastly, the letters sent after
Paul's imprisonment were different, and authorities and victims couldn't tell
or didn't want to admit it. Maybe the post imprisonment

(20:46):
letters were different, written by someone else to try to
imitate Paul's style, but that doesn't really hold up either,
because recipient said the letters seemed authentic and continued the
same tone and information. Paul the Shower spent years in
prison protesting his innocence. He gave interviews from behind bars,

(21:06):
He wrote letters to newspapers. He even appeared in documentaries
about the case. He was always consistent in his story.
He didn't write the Circle of All letters, he didn't
build a booby trap, and someone had framed him. He
pointed to the continuing letters as proof of his innocence.
How can I be the letter writer when I'm locked
in here and the letters are still being sent, he asks,

(21:27):
And it was a fair question, one that authorities never
adequately answered. Paul's wife Karen Sue divorced him while he
was in prison. His life was destroyed by the conviction.
He lost his job, his freedom, his marriage, and his reputation.
Authorities had responses to Paul's claims. They suggested he might
be directing an accomplice from prison, though they never identified

(21:49):
who that accomplice might be or how Paul was communicating
them without detection since he was monitored twenty four to seven.
They suggested some of the later letters might be copycats,
but they maintained that the evidence against Paul for the
booby trap was solid, even if they couldn't prove he
wrote every letter. Through the nineteen eighties and into the
nineteen nineties, the letters didn't just continue, they spread more.

(22:14):
Residents of Circleville and surrounding Pickaway County reported receiving anonymous letters.
Some were threatening, some were just creepy observations about their
daily lives, and some contained accusations. Local law enforcement investigated
each report, but they were overwhelmed. How do you catch
a letter writer who leaves no physical evidence, who mails

(22:34):
letters from different locations, who seems to know every single
thing about every single person in the pre internet era?
With limited resources, it was impossible. Some recipients of letters
believed Paul Freshauer was guilty and must have had help.
Others became convinced he was innocent and that the real
letter writer was still among them, laughing at the fact

(22:56):
that an innocent man sat in prison for their crimes.
The case created paranoia and division in Circleville. Trust eroded.
People wondered if their neighbor, their coworkers, or their friends
might be the letter writer. Some people moved away entirely,
unable to live with constant surveillance and harassment. Paul Freshour

(23:17):
was eventually paroled in nineteen ninety four. After serving a
decade in prison. He returned to Circleville, which, to his credit,
took a good bit of courage, and continued to maintain
his innocence until his death in twenty twelve. Even after
his release, occasional reports of letters surfaced, though it became
less frequent in the late nineteen nineties and two thousands.

(23:39):
Whether this was because the original writer died, got too
old to continue, or just simply moved on with her life,
we don't know. Mary Gillespie, the primary target of the
letters for almost two decades, kept her silence for many years,
she never really gave interviews and tried to move completely
on with her life. The experience had traumatized her and

(24:01):
she just wanted to be left completely alone. And to
this day, no one has definitively solved this Circleville letters case.
No one has identified with certainty who wrote the thousands
of letters that tormented a small Ohio town for two decades.
What actually happened in Circleville. There are a handful of theories,

(24:22):
so let's talk about what we know and what people think.
Theory one is that Paul fresh Hour did it with
an accomplice. The gun used in the booby trap matched
the same type that Paul owned, and then after he
went into prison, maybe his accomplice helped with that and
that's why letters continued. Theory two is that Paul fresh
Hour was framed, and this is what he himself maintained

(24:44):
until his death. The idea is that the real letter
writer deliberately set him up to take the fall for
all of it. Theory three multiple letter writers. Maybe there
was never just one or even two. Maybe it started
with one person and then others joined in, either copycats
or co conspirators. The only evidence really supporting that is
that the letters spanned twenty years and involved dozens and dozens,

(25:08):
if not over one hundred people. And then lastly, the
fourth theory is that the real letter writer was never caught.
And this is my personal theory. I think it's the
most likely explanation to be honest, someone in Circleville, probably
someone close to the investigation or to the victims. In
a small town like that, you know, there's a small
degree of separation. Sure, probably one of those people was

(25:29):
the original one and never identified. Paul Freshaur mayor may
not have been involved, but even if he was, I
don't think that he was the mastermind behind it. In
this entire case has been repeatedly studied over the last
like twenty years, especially by psychiatrists and sociologists, because whoever
wrote the Circleville letters was an actual sadist. This wasn't

(25:50):
about money or revenge for a specific wrong or perceive wrongdoing.
This was solely about power and control, the power to
make people afraid, to destroy relatedtionships, to ruin lives, and
they remained completely hidden. The letter writer was getting off
on the fact that they could tinker around with all
of these people's lives, and go completely undetected. The escalation

(26:12):
to the booby trap shows that the power of the
letters wasn't enough anymore. The writer needed to up the
stakes to see if they could actually kill someone and
get away with it. And Mary is beyond lucky that
she noticed that wire. This is someone who had deep
psychological issues, possibly a personality disorder, likely someone who felt
powerless in their own life and compensated by secretly controlling others.

(26:37):
They might have seemed normal on the surface, maybe even
friendly and helpful, but inside they were fueled by a
rage and a need to dominate, and that is the
psychological profile that has been built for this person. The
Circleville Letter's case is a reminder that sometimes evil is anonymous.
Sometimes it is cowardly hiding out behind cut out magazine

(26:59):
letters and post office boxes miles away from the scene
of the crime. For the people in Circleville, the damage
was lasting. Trust was broken, lives were destroyed. Ron Gillespie died,
whether directly because of the letters or not. Mary Gillespie
lived in fear for years. Paul Freshour spent a decade

(27:20):
in prison and died maintaining his innocence, and the letter
writer they likely got away with it, whether it was
Paul fresh Hour or an accomplice of his or someone else. Entirely,
the full truth never surfaced. The mastermind behind two decades
of psychological terrorism was never definitively identified. The letters did

(27:40):
eventually stop coming, probably because the writer died, became too
old or infirm, or moved away, But that person took
their secrets with them. And isn't that wild to think
that if you were living in Circleville during this time,
that you may have known this person. You might have
talked to them at the grocery store, sat next to
him in church, have them over to your house for tea,

(28:02):
like you never would have known. And that's I think
what's so scary and freaky about this is like during
that time, obviously, probably in twenty twenty five, this could
probably never happen. And it's not that it did happen,
but it's that it could happen anywhere in pretty much
any small town. And that's it for today, guys, thank
you so much as always for listening. I'm your host, Robin.

(28:23):
Don't forget to follow the show, leave a review, or
share this episode with someone if they loved true crime,
you can follow the podcast on Instagram at We Saw
the Devil podcast on Facebook and Twitter at We Saw
the Devil, and you can email at info at wesew
thedevil dot com. There will be another episode of Red,
White and Bruise coming as well in the next couple days,
because again, of course, the shutdown ended thirty minutes after

(28:45):
I put the last episode out, and in gay marriage
the very next morning wasn't taken up. Happy I guess
kind of about both of those things, but man, it
hurts when something is immediately rendered out of date. That's
it for today, guys, until next crime