February 25, 2025 • 46 mins
Awakening is a rhythm we all can feel. In this episode, we dive deep with Christine as we explore the astonishing intersection between sound, spirituality, and science. Have you ever thought about the impact of drumming on your body and mind? Christine reveals how the power of rhythm can catalyze healing at the cellular level, transforming individuals and communities.
Christine draws from her rich background, which spans sacred drumming ceremonies to scientific research on the benefits of sound healing. It’s more than just an art form; it’s a journey of connection that transcends language and culture. She shares her fascinating experiences across the globe, demonstrating how music can be a tool for unity—even in divisive contexts.
From discussing the biological changes instigated by rhythm to the social healing that arises when people come together to create music, this episode invites you to embark on your journey toward awakening. Discover practical tips and insights to incorporate the healing powers of drumming into your life, awakening your spirit, and enriching your experiences.
Be sure to check out Christine Stevens’ free gift—The Four Essential Rhythms of Life video training!
Find her on her Facebook and check out her website at https://ubdrumcircles.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Christine, thank you for joining me on.
We Woke Up Like this.
I am so excited to talk to youtoday about awakening and
drumming and rhythm and musicand everything that is totally
in your wheelhouse and zone ofgenius.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited too because you are, you know, you bring this
spiritual perspective and soundand music.
And you, from the minute I metyou and you were like, oh, by
the way, yeah, I go to sacredsites and sing music.
I was't know why.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I have never been there and my instructions are to
just go completely on intuitionand see what happens.
So we will see.
But yes, I am, and I still loveto.
(00:55):
It's definitely, hands down,one of my favorite things to go
and do.
So yeah, thank you.
Well, I wanted to start thisconversation off, because I have
my notebook here dated 14th2023.
I went and did a first timethat I wanted to go really learn
drumming, being so called tothe drum and I went and learned
(01:15):
from you in Sedona and this issomething I wrote down that you
said, which, of course, it'shilarious given what you just
said.
That, of course, it's hilariousgiven what you just said, that,
of course, this is what I wrotedown.
And I said sound this is whatyou said.
Sound is a spiritual path andit's one of the oldest spiritual
drumming enlivens the cells ofthe body and one hour of
(01:36):
drumming changes your cellularbiology and I really loved that.
So would you care to elaborateon that, christine?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, this moment, this day that we're having this
conversation for your series.
I woke up like this is the dayof Hazrat Atni Khan's Urz, and
he is the author of the Music ofLife, a Sufi master who came to
the West and wrote soexquisitely about the spiritual
path through sound, throughmusic.
(02:05):
And the other thing I would sayis absolutely beautiful that in
your sharing you just combinethe sacred and the science.
So we have all this history.
Yesterday was Saraswati Day,the goddess of the audible arts,
and I've always been aspiritual seeker, a spiritual
person.
I spent a lot of years at Agape.
(02:25):
We were part of the drumministry there.
I've spent a lot of years withthe Lakota learning to sing and
be in ceremonies, with prayersongs in Sweat Lodge and Yipi
ceremonies and doing a humblageof Vision Quest.
So in all of that, then herecame the science, with Dr Barry
Bittman and my time at Remo to,I mean, pretty stunning result
(02:49):
to discover that blood samplesbefore and after an hour of
group drumming with non-drummersOkay, these were people in
Pennsylvania who were just paidto come to this study and in
that hour we were able to, witha specific protocol, modulate
biology in a direction againststress to reduce stress on a
(03:10):
cellular biology.
So that's very wasn't part ofthat study, but Dr Barry Bittman
did that with Remo andpublished that in 2000 in the
Journal of Alternative Medicineand that study really launched a
(03:33):
series of other follow-upstudies on burnout and nurses
and continuing to find more andmore data that supports the use
of the drum, which is really old.
I mean, the shamans carry thedrums and I was just looking for
my drum and I was thinkingabout how Babatunde Oetunji, the
Nigerian drum master, said thatwhen there is a drum in every
(03:57):
home, the planet will be atpeace and people will be happy.
I'm just going to turn on myoriginal sound so I can just
play this for you.
It sounds really good beinghere in the desert and I bought
this drum before I knew I was adrummer because I was told I
(04:19):
didn't have rhythm in college inmusic therapy and I found this
drum and I just bought it andmaybe people listening have
experienced that moment ofbuying an instrument even
without knowing.
But I really believe in all theinstruments.
The drum shows up when peopleare transforming and I've seen
it over and over again peoplethat are in transitions,
(04:42):
post-menopausal women, women whoare just claiming their voice,
all people, not just women, men,just people, all people just
coming and finding thissimplicity.
I can play and really thespiritual path is the same.
You know the spiritual path isI have to participate in it.
You know I'm I'm not one ofthose people that just reads the
(05:05):
prayer book.
I want to be part of thediscovery, the experiencing of
the path and witnessing my owntransformation.
And what I love is carrying thedrum, as you do in the sacred
sites.
I carry it into nature, I takeit with me on a hike, I take it
with me to sit in the morning,to stand in the morning and face
(05:27):
east and play it.
So simple, so simple.
These are really ancientpractices and you don't have to
be Lakota to do this, you don't.
You know this is human.
My teachers, I'm always askingpermission to Uncle Manny Eagle,
elk Council, pipe Sandoval,who's my adopted uncle and is
Navajo, and I ask people a lotof times is it okay, do I have
(05:52):
permission?
Of course, you're human.
You should get up and face eastand play your drum, and I think
it's really how we wake up,like this is just this journey
of why is it that music andmusical instruments and sound
healing are showing up forpeople like you that are at a
certain frequency, or maybe wewould say awakening in the
(06:15):
awakening process.
Why does it show up for them?
Because at some point, on theedge of words, come sound and at
some point we move beyond thelanguage realm.
This whatever,three-dimensional,
five-dimensional, I don't know.
You would know, but in thattime of sound, sound is cosmic.
(06:36):
Sound is Everything from thebig bang to the stars as they
shine.
So we feel that at the edge ofwhat I can say to the divine,
comes sound, comes chant, comesthe voice, and these are our
biological instruments.
We don't have to go to collegefor them.
(06:57):
Sadly, we're told we don't haveit, which is a big lie.
Everyone who has a heartbeathas rhythm.
Everyone who can talk can sing.
No, we're told we don't have it, which is a big lie.
Everyone who has a heartbeathas rhythm.
Everyone who can talk can sing.
Now, everyone who can walk candance.
There's a higher level of beinghuman and that's where these
arts come in.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And you this is the spiritual path and this is.
This is what I love about thedrum especially, and I was very
surprised when the drum calledme because it was something that
I kind of had a resistancetoward, in feeling like it was a
you know, in my ignorance andbefore in my my mental ignorance
.
I should say that I was verymuch wrapped up in my head and
trying to explain everythingpurely through science.
(07:36):
I was one of those very 3dmaterialism If it can't be
explained, it doesn't exist kindof people which is really kind
of silly and ridiculous,considering I've had nothing but
a lifetime of mysticalexperiences.
So I think something with mewas trying to explain them.
But it wasn't until the drumcalled me and I remember picking
up my first drum and I was kindof surprised that I wanted it
(08:01):
and I could feel it wanted meand I had no idea how to play it
.
But I knew that I wanted tolearn.
And when I started, just asimple Buffalo drum with a
simple creating, a simple rhythmand using my own voice, exactly
what you just said, christine,that out beyond that realm of
language in the left hemisphereof the brain where I'm trying to
(08:22):
explain and be rational and belogical.
All of a sudden, the bothhemispheres, which you can
explain this.
I'm sure something happenedwhere both hemispheres started
communicating.
And I went to this place beyondwords, and sounds just started
coming out of my mouth that werenot a song, it was just.
It was more like this deeptrusting of this energy that
(08:46):
wanted to just arise up and outof my body, set to the rhythm of
this drum, and that was reallywhat facilitated.
Honestly, that's really whatfacilitated.
Number one, my deep healing.
And number two, opened up mywhole body, wholehearted yes to
having a spiritual awakening,because I think I was a little
bit resistant to it, yeah.
(09:07):
So what do you think ishappening, or what do you know
is happening inside of the brainand the body?
And I know that you also have astudy that just recently came
out about drumming and howpowerful is, not only from the
mystical point of view andputting us in trance states.
But then there's all of thescience and so much data behind
what's happening.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yes, well, the study which was done during COVID was
looking at reducing pain, stressand anxiety in a 30-minute Zoom
sound healing session, and Idid this.
I performed the sessions and Ihad two other colleagues that
did this for a year.
We had a free online soundhealing clinic during COVID and
(09:48):
we treated people that had COVIDor had long haul or lost
someone from COVID or hadburnout from the workload of
COVID.
I remember a minister who wasjust exhausted from doing all
these zoom memorials, forexample.
So we, we had this program.
It was very life-changing forme.
It grew my compassion, it grewmy skills I would say my
(10:11):
shamanic sound skills reallygrew and it made me very
convinced that zoom works forhealing sessions and that we
don't actually need an hour.
I I mean a lot can happen in 30minutes with sound.
Especially, what I learned isthat eight minutes is key.
So I used to say four minutesminimum, you know, to get
someone to entrain.
(10:32):
But then I noticed that ineight minutes of playing one
instrument like the flute or thedrum meditatively, people
really shifted and people thatcouldn't find a sense of peace
recalibrated back to that energyof I'm breathing better.
You know it's a respiratorycondition, covid.
So that was a great study.
(10:52):
What I think is happening alsobecause I really love this
teacher, joan Borschenko, drJoan Borschenko, she gave a talk
in Santa Fe at a conference Iwas speaking at.
It was on spirituality andalcohol and drug and alcohol
abuse conference, recovery andspirituality.
So she puts up this slide and Imean this blew my socks off.
(11:14):
It was like okay, there's twonetworks of the brain the
default network, which is theego, the past that the, you know
, the self-absorbed, ruminatingshould I have was it the right
thing to come and be at thisinterview today was did I look
okay?
Did I set up the right?
You know, that's that egoicdefault meaning that's our
(11:36):
natural.
However, there is then adifferent network network.
Network meaning differentactivation, more prefrontal
areas of the brain on PET scans,and that area is called the
experiencing network and thiscomes from all the Jack Canfield
mindful studies and gettingbrain scans on people that are
med present.
We're present for the momentTime.
An indicator that you're inthat network is time feels
(12:08):
larger and sometimes you losetime.
You're in a flow state and sheputs up this slide of tools to
get you into this state, whichis definitely what I feel
humanity's awakening journey isis making that the default right
to be less self-absorbed, to becompassionate.
So she puts up a slide.
You know well, here's sometools to get in this network
(12:31):
helping others, being in nature,playing music, and she's she
wrote the forward to my bookmusic medicine.
We're caught, we're closefriends and colleagues and she
says you know, like Christine'swork, and I'm just in the back
row, just you know, yes.
And I went back to my hotel roomafter that talk and I just
cried and I was like floodedwith insight because I've
(12:55):
traveled.
I mean I get emotional sayingthis now.
I mean I've been in Bali, I'vebeen Japan, I've been in places
of sacred.
Sound is part of lifestyle,ceremonial cultures, you know.
And I thought our culture isjust amplifying the default
network, social media, you knowall the self-absorbed thinking,
(13:18):
the what do I get?
I want me, me, me.
And I thought, oh, oh, my god,my culture has socialized me
into the default network.
I'm not in India, I'm notliving in an ashram, so how do I
create that network in myself?
So you just ask yourself, whatin that list do you love?
And when I combine music andnature, I get the double aspect
(13:41):
of putting myself into thatexperience.
When I ran the sound healingclinic, I was caring for others
during that pandemic and thatcreated that networking of
experiencing network.
And once you start noticing this, you will really see the
difference.
And how do we ever articulatethat?
Maybe at the end of singing ina sacred space there's a silence
(14:03):
that's very reverberant andpowerful.
That's what's happening.
You've just shifted your brain.
Your chemistry of your brain isamplifying the present moment.
You're experiencing thisexperience.
This is the enlightened brainand we have this in us.
We have that network, we haveall the systems.
(14:23):
It's just a different pathway.
Oh, instead of lighting up thispart, let's light up this part.
Move to the more prefrontalcortex, get that illumination
going in my thinking, becausethe brain is powerful, our minds
are powerful.
You know they say it's a greatservant and a terrible master.
You know they say it's a greatservant and a terrible master.
So when I notice that when Iplay music, it definitely takes
(14:47):
me there, and especiallyimprovisation.
I think that's a big part ofwhat I want to say today is how
important it is to be able tolet go of what you know and the
notes on the page and just likeI just picked up the drum and it
(15:07):
you know it's improvisation,because it surprises you.
I feel like playing that today.
What a surprise.
Or, you know, I need someenergy.
You know there's nothing thatmodulates your mood and your
energy like the drum.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Wow, so much you just said there.
This is why I I this is why I'mdoing this series, that's why
I'm doing these talks to help toawaken, to help to awaken
people, to help them activatewithin themselves their own
awakening capacity, and that weare wired to awaken.
But we've just been operatingfrom this conditioned self where
we're constantly in fight orflight, freeze, fawn, whichever
(15:42):
one it is that you default to,or combination thereof, and I
have found that, working withsound and for me, being an
extreme trauma survivor thatsound, working with sound and
especially with my own voice, Ican tell you in the beginning,
when I started doing this,christine, I hated my voice.
I would say that I hate myvoice.
I can't even imagine sayingsuch a thing now.
(16:04):
But three, this was just threeyears ago we're talking about,
or maybe four years ago itwasn't that long ago that I felt
like that.
It was such a embodied belief.
I hate my voice and when Istarted using my voice it, it
calmed, it healed my nervoussystem, so that my mind and I'd
already been a meditator.
But then I think that whathappened was that that calming
(16:26):
of the nervous system thenactivated that experience portal
within my mind, and I love thatyou call it that and I'm
wondering if that's the realname of it, like that's exactly
what it is.
My studio here is.
So I say the protocol is savedand it's sound art, voice
embodiment exercises, whichmovement, just intuitive and
drumming, and all of it from aplace of non-performing and all
(16:50):
of it from a place of justreally dropping deeply into
yourself and trusting that flow.
So I'm curious from you whenyou're doing your, when you're
playing your flute and you're Imean, you're such a beautiful
flutist as well so when you'replaying and you're doing a sound
healing, are your soundhealings completely intuitively
guided?
Do you just step into that flowwithin yourself and trust?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
versus improvisational.
That's a more I don't knowfeminine or something about that
.
It's more mystical to sayintuitive maybe, but I really
like that languaging of it.
You know this language of thebrain systems and the mind and
the two networks.
It's very standardized.
You can Google it and readabout it and you know, I was
just glad to have received thatfrom Joan that day.
I still have that slide on thedesktop because I mean it was
(17:45):
like eight years ago, six yearsago, but it was such a stunning
aha for me because I do likewhen science helps you
understand the spiritual path inthat way and you can also.
The other tip about that is youcan really tell when you're
falling into the default.
And I know when I'm in it andI'm ruminating and I can't sleep
(18:05):
and I keep thinking about thepast and should I have what I
could have?
And that's when you canintervene.
That's when the music comes in,like the other day I was in one
of those ruminations and I wentto dance church and I was just
what a mood change two hourslater.
I was like what problem?
So you know, stepping into thatintervention, one of the things
that creates a lot of thatruminating, default network
(18:29):
thinking is being alone, sogetting out into a social
situation, you know, I mean, Iam a social worker and the.
The whole thing aboutsocializing and they call it
your social capital is the moregroups you belong to, the
happier people are.
We're sort of in the west, alittle bit more individuality
based, but as I travel and I getinto these more group mind
(18:52):
cultures, like especially japan,very we oriented, place right,
the we versus the me, and thenyou find this feels safer, I
feel happier.
Somehow I'm not alone.
It's all a balance.
But it's funny when I hear yousay this list it's beautiful, I
think about how how simple thisis and you compare this to maybe
(19:15):
another spiritual path of likeheavy dogma and read, memorize
and this and that and the otherthing, and this is really a path
of beauty, of song, of sacredsound.
So when I play this this is mybranch flute that I use the most
for the sound healings that Ido live and online, and it's
(19:37):
made from a birch tree fromStephen Rensick in Canada and
what I do is I have a formula.
Of course it's intuitivelyguided, but generally speaking
the healing arc starts here, ittravels and it comes back home.
So I try to kind of take thatinto my phrases, to start to
(20:00):
travel and come back home.
It's called the healing arc.
I learned that with SylviaNakach when we used to teach
together at Shambhala.
She's got a great book, freeyour Voice, and she would teach
us that in so many medicinesongs she studied she's a world
traveler too would have that arc.
The second thing I do is I do alot of long tones.
(20:22):
I really find that I think ifyou can focus your mind on one
note, it just gives the mind theduration right.
So the drum is percussive butthe flute is a breath instrument
, that longing note, and thenbring it back down.
(21:17):
And I've had to really learn tolet there be space between
these phrases.
And I watched the person on thescreen.
I could, you know, I could seethem take a deep breath and I
would wait for their next inhaleto play.
I mean it's kind of fun thatway.
And the other thing I dosometimes is I use a name or a
mantra.
So if I'm doing healing work Imight even use your name or just
(21:42):
the word healing.
Healing is in the now.
I mean you're you could give me.
Why don't we play a game yougive me an affirmation and I or
a word or two or something, andI'll show you how I would put
that into the flute.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Oh, beautiful, okay, majesty for your own self.
Your own, okay, majesty Four.
Your own self, your ownself-sovereignty, your own
self-majesty.
Not from an ego point of view,but from your inner spaciousness
of self-love.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I love that Majesty I am.
I am the majesty of my soul.
See, in my mind is I am themajesty of my soul.
So I could just play that.
(23:00):
It's always good to repeatsomething, because that's
aesthetics, that's beauty whenwe hear it two, three times.
So that's another thing if I Ilove that now you sing that
phrase to me so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I closed my eyes and received that.
I am the majesty of my soul.
My soul, I am the majesty of mysoul.
(23:45):
I love that.
I mean, and that was just sucha simple, intuitively guided
practice that we just did.
That was not any planningwhatsoever, and I could feel
that so deeply in my body.
It's just so beautiful and sopowerful.
Sound is so powerful and when Iwanted to talk to you, we were
talking about it's like oh, Ireally want to have you on this
on the podcast, just because,number one, your energy is just
(24:06):
so beautiful.
You're such an authentic spiritthat comes through you and also
your wealth of knowledge, and Ithink it's that same
combination of the science andthe spiritual that intermingle
together.
And I really appreciate itbecause we are wired to awaken,
we are wired for sound andinside of our body is an
acoustic chambers.
Can you tell us how that works?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
body is an acoustic chamber.
Can you tell us how that works?
Well, I really believe thatrhythm is the medicine for the
body, you know.
So when the drum beats, youcan't even help but tap along.
You know, and I developed thisrhythm diagnostic, which is
really fun, where I drum andpeople hold perfectly still and
in that moment you feel wherethe drum is speaking to your
body and it's because our bodiesare wired for that rhythm and
(24:55):
we're so rhythmically deprived.
Man, you know, just hearing adrum beat, people go, oh, it's
tribal, like, yeah, I want tojust sit by a fire and play my
drum all day.
You know, it's an amazing,restorative, soul retrieving
experience.
So the shamans would say, if youwere ill, they would ask you
when is the last time youdrummed?
(25:16):
When is the last time youdanced?
When is the last time you sang?
Right, it's like, well, whatare you doing in your life?
That's creating this milieu,that's welcoming illness.
So the best thing I can do isbe responsible for that milieu.
So that's creating this milieu,that's welcoming illness.
So the best thing I can do isbe responsible for that milieu.
So that's what I feel about thebody.
That inner chamber is thefeeling of being drummed in the
(25:39):
body.
So easy, so simple pull, itdoesn't take big motion, you're
(26:12):
just rocking.
You know swaying.
It's like being in rhythm and Ithink what pertains to your
work and your beautiful titlehere we Woke Up Like this is the
idea that we are evolving.
We probably came to this schoolcalled Earth to learn to
continue our evolution, so thedrum is an evolutionary driver.
(26:35):
It's probably what created onetheory is that from the apes,
the chimpanzees to the humanswas beating together in time,
moving together in time.
So how we can feel that in ourown bodies.
I'm excited that I have a newdrum class this year at Shift
Network that is dedicated torhythms for awakening, because
(26:57):
there are patterns.
You know the drum has this deepbass and the higher pitch on the
side and there are patterns.
Like we want to hear that bass.
You know there's patterns.
Or if we're in Cuba, wherewe're not gonna feel that
(27:18):
grounded based, you know wherethings are reversed in the Latin
American world.
So I've been collecting theserhythms around the world and in
running Global Rhythm Sangha,and I really love knowing these
rhythms and I want this to be inpeople's vocabularies.
(27:38):
I want people to know how tospeak drum, which is the
unspoken, but it is a language,so I just think it feels good
when you drum.
It feels good in your body, asmany people said to us when we
studied them in COVID in ourproject.
People with long haul thatcould hardly move said they
(27:59):
could feel their cells waking up.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Wow, it's so incredible and it's such a
powerful instrument.
It's such a powerful tool forawakening and I'm so excited
that you're creating this classon the shift network.
It's so important I'm going toput a link to it below for
people to sign up, becausedrumming is one of the most.
Like you said, it's a simplepath.
This is.
There are simpler ways and, andyou know, they do all lead to
(28:24):
the same place on the mountain.
So it's like well, how do youwant to get there?
How do you want to get to theplace on the mountain that you
want to get to?
You can take the hard road, ifthat's what calls you, or you
can take a more fun, more simple, language free path, and for me
that is really what worked andit certainly has helped me to
calm that, that default modethat's constantly overthinking,
(28:48):
busy mind thinking, thinking.
Christine, how long have youbeen playing the drum?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I started studying hand percussion after I
graduated from Michigan State.
I must have been about 21 or so, and that's when I first put my
hand on a drum, and that's whenthe drum that you found, that
you showed us that you stillhave.
Yeah, well, that was a differentdrum.
I was just playing congas at aparty, at a drum circle event,
(29:15):
and I just went what is this?
I had this huge belief that Icouldn't play percussion, that I
had no rhythm.
I really believed that, and so,all of a sudden, three hours
went by, like 10 minutes, and Ijust experienced this incredible
connection and love for everyperson in the room that I'd
never met, total strangers, andI just said what is this?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I want to study this, and you also mentioned your
rhythm sangha, which I am amember of and I love it.
So tell everybody what yourrhythm sangha is, that you do.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Well, I started this project six years ago and it's
called Global Rhythm Sangha.
Sangha is a Sanskrit word forthe sacred community and we have
people from seven countries.
We have a group of people thatgather online once a month and
we learn a different culturalrhythm every month from a
cultural master.
So there's no appropriation.
(30:07):
We get to meet the teachers onZoom.
You know, I just realized thatI had really a blessed decade of
my life living in upstate NewYork at the time where I studied
with all these master drummersI mean djembe teachers, west
African teachers, you know,africans, egyptians.
I met people from the culturesand then I would go to Seattle
World Rhythm Festival and studythere Same kind of thing.
(30:28):
And I thought, now that we haveZoom, can't we create this
online?
So it's really fun.
I handpick and curate theteachers and bring people
together pretty affordably oncea month to learn the rhythm and
we have a practice call and I'mso glad you're in our community
and I really I'm learning fromrunning the program.
I mean, I walk around practicingthe rhythms each month and,
(30:49):
like this month we're going tolearn IU but transfer them from
the Middle East and Iran and youknow, just so fun to learn them
and practice them and then youexpand.
It's like you know you'relearning, kind of like learning
a song.
But I really have beeninterested in patterns because
patterns like we have sacredgeometry, right Patterns
(31:10):
everything is a pattern.
Everything is math really,essentially and I'm not an
astrophysicist or anything and Ican't even really understand
that field very well.
But what I do know from being abotanist is that the perfection
of everything has symmetry andthat is something that happens
in a rhythm mantra and it justrepeats and repeats, and repeats
(31:32):
.
And we do that to get out ofthe default network.
We do spiritual practice to bein the spiritual network, to be
in the experiencing network ofour brains.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I love that and it's, you know, when we take that
practice work that we're doingand I don't even call it
practicing because it's likeit's my sacred time, it's my,
it's my church to go to mychurch of music every day, my
church of sound, and I find thatnow, when I'm out in real life,
like this is what the practiceis for is that we can now tap
into that self more than thedefault network when we are out
(32:05):
in the world.
Do you find that to be true foryou also?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yes, I think the first thing that happens is I
become much more of a witness ofobserving which one I'm in and
what triggered me to go there.
And I just had a breakthrough.
I was performing at a Sufievent a couple of weeks ago with
my band and I had my harmoniumand we were singing.
And I had a breakthroughbecause, as a performer, it's
(32:29):
easy to fall into the egonetwork because everyone's
looking at you and you have that.
You know, am I good enough?
Do I look right?
How's my sound?
And all of a sudden, I didn'tcare about any of that and I
experienced this transcendenceof the typical mind of the
performer and I realized howchallenging that is when you are
a performer and it's easy tofall into that.
(32:51):
Everyone's loving me, right?
What a trap.
And so because you're justgoing to get off that stage.
So I realized how important itwas to transform beyond that and
transcend that and just be ofservice.
It isn't really what else arewe here to do and just be of
service.
It isn't really what else arewe here to do?
We're here to be of service andto feed people, and I feel like
(33:12):
sound.
Is that nutrition?
It's that.
It is what feeds people.
It feeds me, the other thingthat happens.
So I notice it in my witness,I'm more and more clear about it
, I'm more and more confidentthat my practices are working
because of how I see my day goby and I noticed the music of
life which is like so cool.
(33:34):
Like the wind just blew when Iwas walking over here and I've
really heard the note of it.
Wow, I think we have to becomegood listeners as well.
There's a lot of urban noise,you know noise pollution, but
there's also when you get awayfrom that and you go out in the
desert's also when you get awayfrom that and you go out in the
desert and you just even in abackyard and you just kind of
listen to a bird in the morning.
What a thrill.
(33:54):
I mean, the whole world isreally the natural world is
really symphonic and it'sbeautiful and it's that's where
I go.
That's what I do to rejuvenatemyself is just sit and listen to
that natural world.
It might be the river flowingby at the Snake River, or snow
melting, or you know thesebeautiful sounds, or even the
(34:16):
quiet after the snow and you'reon skis and it's just so quiet
in the woods.
You know, these are things thatare so simple and it's just
here.
We are always trying to teachanything complicated.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I know we're always bathed.
If we're paying attention andwe're in nature, we're always
bathed in this beautiful soundbath that's coming in, and I've
had those same experiences ofjust closing my eyes and
listening to the sound of windrustling through the pine trees
and the birds chirping in thedistance and somebody cracking
on the pines as they're walking,and just those beautiful.
(34:54):
They bring you very present,and I feel like that's what all
of these experiences are for isto bring us back to presence,
because we can only listen rightnow.
And speaking of yeah, speakingof you know how, you know you're
operating in the world, thoughin that your experiences are
working, your practices areworking because of how you're
showing up in the world, andthank you for sharing that
(35:16):
awareness of being on stage andcatching yourself in that.
I do that too.
I mean, we're human, of coursewe do, and it's like, oh yeah,
let me step back into serviceand out of my worry about how
I'm being perceived, and stepback into being of service,
letting my heart be of service.
I know that you have done somereally powerful healing and
(35:37):
peace work with the drum aroundthe world, with different groups
of people.
How does the drum unite peopleand bring peace.
That you have seen in yourexperience.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I think basically it is this common language of the
heartbeat of humans.
You know, and it doesn't matterif you sing in one scale and
you know there's a lot ofdifferences in the global
perspective of ethnomusicology.
You know very different scalesin Iraq than America, or Native
American, or you know SouthAmerican, latin American rhythms
(36:08):
, very syncopated, right.
But when you get to the drumbeat, you know everybody's
really can be on the sameharmony.
You know it can really createthat harmony.
That's a gift of the drum isthat we don't have to tune our
instruments to each other.
You know, am I in the same keyas you?
I don't think so.
You know you're out of key.
We can't play together.
(36:28):
But in the drumming it doesn'tmatter what language.
I worked with these in this warzone in Iraq and the people
that spoke Arabic or Kurdish orAramaic or Yazidis, and
everybody could speak drum, andactually they were amazed and I
also said doom, taka, taka, doom, and they were like wait,
that's what we say.
Yeah, you know.
(36:48):
So I remember one time callinga young man who was in that
project and I had a cell phone.
That second year I went back toIraq and I called him.
He lived in Halabja and when heanswered the phone he said taka
taka doom, taka taka, doom,doom.
And I said doom doom, taka takatak.
And we just had a conversationlike that and I thought, yeah,
because when I didn't have atranslator we could, absolutely
(37:10):
couldn't talk to each other.
I mean, like, really, I have Iknow like three words in Kurdish
right, so it wasn't easy.
So I think the thing that'shappening now is more and more
conflict.
You know, I was at the RotaryWorld Peace Conference a few
years ago.
People are tracking this globalconflict and all the massive
numbers of refugees, the humanmigrations that are happening
(37:32):
and the climate change, and it'sa very challenging time on the
planet.
And I'm not a kumbaya person,I'm not like, oh, if we just
drum together, there'll be peace.
I actually think the path topeace is very individual.
I think we have to do ourpractice and anchor it and at
the same time, it really isbeautiful to watch a
(37:53):
transformation from enemies andI saw this in the war zone from
total enemies.
That's hatred, and we'retalking about years of hatred.
You know, going back theancestors who fought each other,
so there's a whole genealogy ofwar going there To suddenly
jamming together and when youplay the same music together,
(38:15):
you can't help but feel aconnection to another person.
It happens through entrainment.
It's a human.
There's a woman who did a studyon that and found that actually
, when we beat together, wepulse together.
Whether it's dancing ordrumming, whatever it is
movement together, sharedmuscular bonding is the language
in science.
It creates more compassion andkindness, and those have got to
(38:36):
be important for changinghumanity.
Kindness and compassion.
The Dalai Lama says my truereligion is kindness.
So in our global rhythm sangha,I always feel that that's what
happens.
Is we meet that person from adifferent country that might
even not even speak our language, and sometimes they don't, and
we're trying to learn theirrhythms.
(38:57):
You know, and something changesand you hear about the news in
iran and you feel differentbecause you just met, you know,
uh, someone from iran in myclass and you're like, oh well,
I feel different about that.
So it's a matter of, as youasked me about the, the drum for
bringing people together, Ireally didn't think it could
work as well as it did.
Even I was surprised and Ithink it is like, potentially,
(39:21):
as you say, we're here, we'rewired for awakening.
I think we're really wired forpeace and and there's a desire.
When you drum together, youdon't want to mess up the beat,
you don't want to fight throughyour drum, you want harmony.
Right, it's like being inharmony.
So it's a challenging timeright now, and it's important to
(39:42):
stay present with our own joyand happiness, which is our
birthright as well, and findingwhat works for you.
The tip I have today issomething that I did eight years
ago that was life-changing forme.
I did 40 days of silence and inthat 40 days I realized a very
(40:02):
small list I wrote it on asticky note of five or six
things that made me so happythat all they took was time.
The cost of these things wasjust my time and I carried that
list.
It hasn't really changed much.
I mean, it was just funny thatthat that's my list.
And talking to you today, I hadthe insight that maybe that's
(40:26):
my list of what creates mynetwork change.
You know, playing music, beingin nature, having alone time.
Every week I take, every week Itake four hours to be alone in
nature.
I call it my nature, darshantime, and so you've come up with
your formula and I've come upwith my formula, and it's very
individual, so you have to trythings.
(40:46):
We can't tell you we can saysing drum, you have to try
things.
We can't tell you we can saysing drum, you have to try
things.
You even tried something thatyou had a resistance to with the
drum.
I mean, that's one of myfriends Kendra always says I
knew it had big medicine for mebecause I was so afraid to play
it.
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Now I know that.
Now I know that if I feel asuper resistance in my body to
something, I'm like, oh, that'sthe thing I need to go do
Because it's my ego, I alreadyknow it's that ego that knows
it's like, oh no, this is goingto shake things up too much.
We don't want her to do that.
And Christine I just love somuch and I really hope that
listeners, you take away themessage of the path of peace is
(41:25):
wired within us.
Our paths of kindness are wiredwithin us.
The path to joy, the path topresence, where everything is
just manageable in the presentmoment, is available to us and
defined what works for you.
Christine has her list of thingsand it's and you're exactly
right too.
That's the other thing that'sreally surprising is that once
you find those, find out whatthe truth of that is 40 days of
(41:48):
silence Wow, that's remarkable.
I could see how that woulddistill down to an essence of
like here's the five things Ireally need.
That's very powerful and Ireally sincerely hope that
everybody listening find thatthing, go try something.
Go sign up for Christine'sdrumming class, her drumming for
awakening on the shift network.
(42:09):
I already can tell you right nowjust from knowing Christine and
working with Christine, howincredibly amazing of a human
being she is.
There's so many people outthere that are offering these
things go for a walk, go tonature, go to the water,
whatever it is that we feel,because right now yeah, it is
there's so much tumultuous worldevents going on right now that
(42:29):
it can be very overwhelming.
And it is a, it's a, and at thesame time, it is an individual
responsibility that weindividually contribute to the
collective.
And so when we takeresponsibility for our part in
that, imagine the transformationthat can happen with a world
full of people takingresponsibility for their inner
(42:50):
joy, their inner awakening,their inner peace, their inner
bliss, their inner kindness,their inner helping.
You see somebody in need andyou help, and it's not that hard
.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
No, I love visualizing that.
I really love feeling that Isee the singing together is
important, the drumming togetheris important.
It's how we evolved, so let'skeep evolving, let's keep
evolving.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, we don't want to devolve, we want to keep
evolving.
Christine, do you have anyfinal words of wisdom and then
share where people can find youand how they can sign up for
everything and anything that youhave going on?
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I would say that my final word is just so much
gratitude for you inviting meand the work it takes that
you're producing this and havingthese deep conversations and
you're sharing yourself sobeautifully.
I really value having met you.
What was the year we met One ofyour years ago?
I mean you've really changed inthose years.
(43:44):
You've stepped through a lot ofchallenges public speaking,
singing, teaching, puttingyourself on the internet.
You've stepped through a lot ofthings that would maybe shut
people down and you're a greatexample of no, I'm going to face
those challenges, I'm going tostep through those challenges,
but you know you have you'vedone a great job of being a
(44:05):
model of stepping out andstepping through and I do
believe that the music thatyou've explored and singing in
the frame, drum and singing andthat has given you that you know
deepest, probably innertransformation, because we know
that when we create that music,we are that music.
You know I think that's theevolution is, oh, I am an
(44:27):
instrument.
You know St Francis said it I'man instrument of peace.
So just tuning into that andenjoying your human experience,
I mean if we woke up like this,wake up Every day, we wake up
Every day, we wake up, enjoy ityeah, enjoy.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
And you never know how many days you have on your
pearl.
I was envisioning days of mylife as being like pearls on a
necklace, that at the end of theday I'm like I get to string
another pearl on my necklace andI really do look at it like
that and like I don't know howmany more I have.
I hope there's hundreds, but Idon't know.
And so I wake up every day andreally say, what can I do?
How can I squeeze the juice outof this day and just live this
(45:05):
day, even when things are sucky,that there's still something I
could find joy in that day.
So, and thank you, I reallyappreciate what you said,
christine.
Where can people find you andyour beautiful work?
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, I have some great free things on my website
upbeat drum circles, or you bedrum circlescom, and that's
where you'll find my free fourrhythms of life and three tips
for playing the flute, for soundhealing a lot of good free
gifts.
So come, join my globalcommunity and be part of this
(45:38):
aspect of you know the soundhealing world, which is really
growing and it's easy to play,so don't let anything, I agree.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Thank you so much for joining me today.
I so appreciate your time.
Namaste, namaste.
Christine, thank you for joining me on.
We Woke Up Like this.
I am so excited to talk to youtoday about awakening and
drumming and rhythm and musicand everything that is totally
in your wheelhouse and zone ofgenius.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited too because you are, you know, you bring this
spiritual perspective and soundand music.
And you, from the minute I metyou and you were like, oh, by
the way, yeah, I go to sacredsites and sing music.
I was't know why.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I have never been there and my instructions are to
just go completely on intuitionand see what happens.
So we will see.
But yes, I am, and I still loveto.
(00:55):
It's definitely, hands down,one of my favorite things to go
and do.
So yeah, thank you.
Well, I wanted to start thisconversation off, because I have
my notebook here dated 14th2023.
I went and did a first timethat I wanted to go really learn
drumming, being so called tothe drum and I went and learned
(01:15):
from you in Sedona and this issomething I wrote down that you
said, which, of course, it'shilarious given what you just
said.
That, of course, it's hilariousgiven what you just said, that,
of course, this is what I wrotedown.
And I said sound this is whatyou said.
Sound is a spiritual path andit's one of the oldest spiritual
drumming enlivens the cells ofthe body and one hour of
(01:36):
drumming changes your cellularbiology and I really loved that.
So would you care to elaborateon that, christine?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, this moment, this day that we're having this
conversation for your series.
I woke up like this is the dayof Hazrat Atni Khan's Urz, and
he is the author of the Music ofLife, a Sufi master who came to
the West and wrote soexquisitely about the spiritual
path through sound, throughmusic.
(02:05):
And the other thing I would sayis absolutely beautiful that in
your sharing you just combinethe sacred and the science.
So we have all this history.
Yesterday was Saraswati Day,the goddess of the audible arts,
and I've always been aspiritual seeker, a spiritual
person.
I spent a lot of years at Agape.
(02:25):
We were part of the drumministry there.
I've spent a lot of years withthe Lakota learning to sing and
be in ceremonies, with prayersongs in Sweat Lodge and Yipi
ceremonies and doing a humblageof Vision Quest.
So in all of that, then herecame the science, with Dr Barry
Bittman and my time at Remo to,I mean, pretty stunning result
(02:49):
to discover that blood samplesbefore and after an hour of
group drumming with non-drummersOkay, these were people in
Pennsylvania who were just paidto come to this study and in
that hour we were able to, witha specific protocol, modulate
biology in a direction againststress to reduce stress on a
(03:10):
cellular biology.
So that's very wasn't part ofthat study, but Dr Barry Bittman
did that with Remo andpublished that in 2000 in the
Journal of Alternative Medicineand that study really launched a
(03:33):
series of other follow-upstudies on burnout and nurses
and continuing to find more andmore data that supports the use
of the drum, which is really old.
I mean, the shamans carry thedrums and I was just looking for
my drum and I was thinkingabout how Babatunde Oetunji, the
Nigerian drum master, said thatwhen there is a drum in every
(03:57):
home, the planet will be atpeace and people will be happy.
I'm just going to turn on myoriginal sound so I can just
play this for you.
It sounds really good beinghere in the desert and I bought
this drum before I knew I was adrummer because I was told I
(04:19):
didn't have rhythm in college inmusic therapy and I found this
drum and I just bought it andmaybe people listening have
experienced that moment ofbuying an instrument even
without knowing.
But I really believe in all theinstruments.
The drum shows up when peopleare transforming and I've seen
it over and over again peoplethat are in transitions,
(04:42):
post-menopausal women, women whoare just claiming their voice,
all people, not just women, men,just people, all people just
coming and finding thissimplicity.
I can play and really thespiritual path is the same.
You know the spiritual path isI have to participate in it.
You know I'm I'm not one ofthose people that just reads the
(05:05):
prayer book.
I want to be part of thediscovery, the experiencing of
the path and witnessing my owntransformation.
And what I love is carrying thedrum, as you do in the sacred
sites.
I carry it into nature, I takeit with me on a hike, I take it
with me to sit in the morning,to stand in the morning and face
(05:27):
east and play it.
So simple, so simple.
These are really ancientpractices and you don't have to
be Lakota to do this, you don't.
You know this is human.
My teachers, I'm always askingpermission to Uncle Manny Eagle,
elk Council, pipe Sandoval,who's my adopted uncle and is
Navajo, and I ask people a lotof times is it okay, do I have
(05:52):
permission?
Of course, you're human.
You should get up and face eastand play your drum, and I think
it's really how we wake up,like this is just this journey
of why is it that music andmusical instruments and sound
healing are showing up forpeople like you that are at a
certain frequency, or maybe wewould say awakening in the
(06:15):
awakening process.
Why does it show up for them?
Because at some point, on theedge of words, come sound and at
some point we move beyond thelanguage realm.
This whatever,three-dimensional,
five-dimensional, I don't know.
You would know, but in thattime of sound, sound is cosmic.
(06:36):
Sound is Everything from thebig bang to the stars as they
shine.
So we feel that at the edge ofwhat I can say to the divine,
comes sound, comes chant, comesthe voice, and these are our
biological instruments.
We don't have to go to collegefor them.
(06:57):
Sadly, we're told we don't haveit, which is a big lie.
Everyone who has a heartbeathas rhythm.
Everyone who can talk can sing.
No, we're told we don't have it, which is a big lie.
Everyone who has a heartbeathas rhythm.
Everyone who can talk can sing.
Now, everyone who can walk candance.
There's a higher level of beinghuman and that's where these
arts come in.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And you this is the spiritual path and this is.
This is what I love about thedrum especially, and I was very
surprised when the drum calledme because it was something that
I kind of had a resistancetoward, in feeling like it was a
you know, in my ignorance andbefore in my my mental ignorance
.
I should say that I was verymuch wrapped up in my head and
trying to explain everythingpurely through science.
(07:36):
I was one of those very 3dmaterialism If it can't be
explained, it doesn't exist kindof people which is really kind
of silly and ridiculous,considering I've had nothing but
a lifetime of mysticalexperiences.
So I think something with mewas trying to explain them.
But it wasn't until the drumcalled me and I remember picking
up my first drum and I was kindof surprised that I wanted it
(08:01):
and I could feel it wanted meand I had no idea how to play it
.
But I knew that I wanted tolearn.
And when I started, just asimple Buffalo drum with a
simple creating, a simple rhythmand using my own voice, exactly
what you just said, christine,that out beyond that realm of
language in the left hemisphereof the brain where I'm trying to
(08:22):
explain and be rational and belogical.
All of a sudden, the bothhemispheres, which you can
explain this.
I'm sure something happenedwhere both hemispheres started
communicating.
And I went to this place beyondwords, and sounds just started
coming out of my mouth that werenot a song, it was just.
It was more like this deeptrusting of this energy that
(08:46):
wanted to just arise up and outof my body, set to the rhythm of
this drum, and that was reallywhat facilitated.
Honestly, that's really whatfacilitated.
Number one, my deep healing.
And number two, opened up mywhole body, wholehearted yes to
having a spiritual awakening,because I think I was a little
bit resistant to it, yeah.
(09:07):
So what do you think ishappening, or what do you know
is happening inside of the brainand the body?
And I know that you also have astudy that just recently came
out about drumming and howpowerful is, not only from the
mystical point of view andputting us in trance states.
But then there's all of thescience and so much data behind
what's happening.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yes, well, the study which was done during COVID was
looking at reducing pain, stressand anxiety in a 30-minute Zoom
sound healing session, and Idid this.
I performed the sessions and Ihad two other colleagues that
did this for a year.
We had a free online soundhealing clinic during COVID and
(09:48):
we treated people that had COVIDor had long haul or lost
someone from COVID or hadburnout from the workload of
COVID.
I remember a minister who wasjust exhausted from doing all
these zoom memorials, forexample.
So we, we had this program.
It was very life-changing forme.
It grew my compassion, it grewmy skills I would say my
(10:11):
shamanic sound skills reallygrew and it made me very
convinced that zoom works forhealing sessions and that we
don't actually need an hour.
I I mean a lot can happen in 30minutes with sound.
Especially, what I learned isthat eight minutes is key.
So I used to say four minutesminimum, you know, to get
someone to entrain.
(10:32):
But then I noticed that ineight minutes of playing one
instrument like the flute or thedrum meditatively, people
really shifted and people thatcouldn't find a sense of peace
recalibrated back to that energyof I'm breathing better.
You know it's a respiratorycondition, covid.
So that was a great study.
(10:52):
What I think is happening alsobecause I really love this
teacher, joan Borschenko, drJoan Borschenko, she gave a talk
in Santa Fe at a conference Iwas speaking at.
It was on spirituality andalcohol and drug and alcohol
abuse conference, recovery andspirituality.
So she puts up this slide and Imean this blew my socks off.
(11:14):
It was like okay, there's twonetworks of the brain the
default network, which is theego, the past that the, you know
, the self-absorbed, ruminatingshould I have was it the right
thing to come and be at thisinterview today was did I look
okay?
Did I set up the right?
You know, that's that egoicdefault meaning that's our
(11:36):
natural.
However, there is then adifferent network network.
Network meaning differentactivation, more prefrontal
areas of the brain on PET scans,and that area is called the
experiencing network and thiscomes from all the Jack Canfield
mindful studies and gettingbrain scans on people that are
med present.
We're present for the momentTime.
An indicator that you're inthat network is time feels
(12:08):
larger and sometimes you losetime.
You're in a flow state and sheputs up this slide of tools to
get you into this state, whichis definitely what I feel
humanity's awakening journey isis making that the default right
to be less self-absorbed, to becompassionate.
So she puts up a slide.
You know well, here's sometools to get in this network
(12:31):
helping others, being in nature,playing music, and she's she
wrote the forward to my bookmusic medicine.
We're caught, we're closefriends and colleagues and she
says you know, like Christine'swork, and I'm just in the back
row, just you know, yes.
And I went back to my hotel roomafter that talk and I just
cried and I was like floodedwith insight because I've
(12:55):
traveled.
I mean I get emotional sayingthis now.
I mean I've been in Bali, I'vebeen Japan, I've been in places
of sacred.
Sound is part of lifestyle,ceremonial cultures, you know.
And I thought our culture isjust amplifying the default
network, social media, you knowall the self-absorbed thinking,
(13:18):
the what do I get?
I want me, me, me.
And I thought, oh, oh, my god,my culture has socialized me
into the default network.
I'm not in India, I'm notliving in an ashram, so how do I
create that network in myself?
So you just ask yourself, whatin that list do you love?
And when I combine music andnature, I get the double aspect
(13:41):
of putting myself into thatexperience.
When I ran the sound healingclinic, I was caring for others
during that pandemic and thatcreated that networking of
experiencing network.
And once you start noticing this, you will really see the
difference.
And how do we ever articulatethat?
Maybe at the end of singing ina sacred space there's a silence
(14:03):
that's very reverberant andpowerful.
That's what's happening.
You've just shifted your brain.
Your chemistry of your brain isamplifying the present moment.
You're experiencing thisexperience.
This is the enlightened brainand we have this in us.
We have that network, we haveall the systems.
(14:23):
It's just a different pathway.
Oh, instead of lighting up thispart, let's light up this part.
Move to the more prefrontalcortex, get that illumination
going in my thinking, becausethe brain is powerful, our minds
are powerful.
You know they say it's a greatservant and a terrible master.
You know they say it's a greatservant and a terrible master.
So when I notice that when Iplay music, it definitely takes
(14:47):
me there, and especiallyimprovisation.
I think that's a big part ofwhat I want to say today is how
important it is to be able tolet go of what you know and the
notes on the page and just likeI just picked up the drum and it
(15:07):
you know it's improvisation,because it surprises you.
I feel like playing that today.
What a surprise.
Or, you know, I need someenergy.
You know there's nothing thatmodulates your mood and your
energy like the drum.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Wow, so much you just said there.
This is why I I this is why I'mdoing this series, that's why
I'm doing these talks to help toawaken, to help to awaken
people, to help them activatewithin themselves their own
awakening capacity, and that weare wired to awaken.
But we've just been operatingfrom this conditioned self where
we're constantly in fight orflight, freeze, fawn, whichever
(15:42):
one it is that you default to,or combination thereof, and I
have found that, working withsound and for me, being an
extreme trauma survivor thatsound, working with sound and
especially with my own voice, Ican tell you in the beginning,
when I started doing this,christine, I hated my voice.
I would say that I hate myvoice.
I can't even imagine sayingsuch a thing now.
(16:04):
But three, this was just threeyears ago we're talking about,
or maybe four years ago itwasn't that long ago that I felt
like that.
It was such a embodied belief.
I hate my voice and when Istarted using my voice it, it
calmed, it healed my nervoussystem, so that my mind and I'd
already been a meditator.
But then I think that whathappened was that that calming
(16:26):
of the nervous system thenactivated that experience portal
within my mind, and I love thatyou call it that and I'm
wondering if that's the realname of it, like that's exactly
what it is.
My studio here is.
So I say the protocol is savedand it's sound art, voice
embodiment exercises, whichmovement, just intuitive and
drumming, and all of it from aplace of non-performing and all
(16:50):
of it from a place of justreally dropping deeply into
yourself and trusting that flow.
So I'm curious from you whenyou're doing your, when you're
playing your flute and you're Imean, you're such a beautiful
flutist as well so when you'replaying and you're doing a sound
healing, are your soundhealings completely intuitively
guided?
Do you just step into that flowwithin yourself and trust?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
versus improvisational.
That's a more I don't knowfeminine or something about that
.
It's more mystical to sayintuitive maybe, but I really
like that languaging of it.
You know this language of thebrain systems and the mind and
the two networks.
It's very standardized.
You can Google it and readabout it and you know, I was
just glad to have received thatfrom Joan that day.
I still have that slide on thedesktop because I mean it was
(17:45):
like eight years ago, six yearsago, but it was such a stunning
aha for me because I do likewhen science helps you
understand the spiritual path inthat way and you can also.
The other tip about that is youcan really tell when you're
falling into the default.
And I know when I'm in it andI'm ruminating and I can't sleep
(18:05):
and I keep thinking about thepast and should I have what I
could have?
And that's when you canintervene.
That's when the music comes in,like the other day I was in one
of those ruminations and I wentto dance church and I was just
what a mood change two hourslater.
I was like what problem?
So you know, stepping into thatintervention, one of the things
that creates a lot of thatruminating, default network
(18:29):
thinking is being alone, sogetting out into a social
situation, you know, I mean, Iam a social worker and the.
The whole thing aboutsocializing and they call it
your social capital is the moregroups you belong to, the
happier people are.
We're sort of in the west, alittle bit more individuality
based, but as I travel and I getinto these more group mind
(18:52):
cultures, like especially japan,very we oriented, place right,
the we versus the me, and thenyou find this feels safer, I
feel happier.
Somehow I'm not alone.
It's all a balance.
But it's funny when I hear yousay this list it's beautiful, I
think about how how simple thisis and you compare this to maybe
(19:15):
another spiritual path of likeheavy dogma and read, memorize
and this and that and the otherthing, and this is really a path
of beauty, of song, of sacredsound.
So when I play this this is mybranch flute that I use the most
for the sound healings that Ido live and online, and it's
(19:37):
made from a birch tree fromStephen Rensick in Canada and
what I do is I have a formula.
Of course it's intuitivelyguided, but generally speaking
the healing arc starts here, ittravels and it comes back home.
So I try to kind of take thatinto my phrases, to start to
(20:00):
travel and come back home.
It's called the healing arc.
I learned that with SylviaNakach when we used to teach
together at Shambhala.
She's got a great book, freeyour Voice, and she would teach
us that in so many medicinesongs she studied she's a world
traveler too would have that arc.
The second thing I do is I do alot of long tones.
(20:22):
I really find that I think ifyou can focus your mind on one
note, it just gives the mind theduration right.
So the drum is percussive butthe flute is a breath instrument
, that longing note, and thenbring it back down.
(21:17):
And I've had to really learn tolet there be space between
these phrases.
And I watched the person on thescreen.
I could, you know, I could seethem take a deep breath and I
would wait for their next inhaleto play.
I mean it's kind of fun thatway.
And the other thing I dosometimes is I use a name or a
mantra.
So if I'm doing healing work Imight even use your name or just
(21:42):
the word healing.
Healing is in the now.
I mean you're you could give me.
Why don't we play a game yougive me an affirmation and I or
a word or two or something, andI'll show you how I would put
that into the flute.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Oh, beautiful, okay, majesty for your own self.
Your own, okay, majesty Four.
Your own self, your ownself-sovereignty, your own
self-majesty.
Not from an ego point of view,but from your inner spaciousness
of self-love.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I love that Majesty I am.
I am the majesty of my soul.
See, in my mind is I am themajesty of my soul.
So I could just play that.
(23:00):
It's always good to repeatsomething, because that's
aesthetics, that's beauty whenwe hear it two, three times.
So that's another thing if I Ilove that now you sing that
phrase to me so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I closed my eyes and received that.
I am the majesty of my soul.
My soul, I am the majesty of mysoul.
(23:45):
I love that.
I mean, and that was just sucha simple, intuitively guided
practice that we just did.
That was not any planningwhatsoever, and I could feel
that so deeply in my body.
It's just so beautiful and sopowerful.
Sound is so powerful and when Iwanted to talk to you, we were
talking about it's like oh, Ireally want to have you on this
on the podcast, just because,number one, your energy is just
(24:06):
so beautiful.
You're such an authentic spiritthat comes through you and also
your wealth of knowledge, and Ithink it's that same
combination of the science andthe spiritual that intermingle
together.
And I really appreciate itbecause we are wired to awaken,
we are wired for sound andinside of our body is an
acoustic chambers.
Can you tell us how that works?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
body is an acoustic chamber.
Can you tell us how that works?
Well, I really believe thatrhythm is the medicine for the
body, you know.
So when the drum beats, youcan't even help but tap along.
You know, and I developed thisrhythm diagnostic, which is
really fun, where I drum andpeople hold perfectly still and
in that moment you feel wherethe drum is speaking to your
body and it's because our bodiesare wired for that rhythm and
(24:55):
we're so rhythmically deprived.
Man, you know, just hearing adrum beat, people go, oh, it's
tribal, like, yeah, I want tojust sit by a fire and play my
drum all day.
You know, it's an amazing,restorative, soul retrieving
experience.
So the shamans would say, if youwere ill, they would ask you
when is the last time youdrummed?
(25:16):
When is the last time youdanced?
When is the last time you sang?
Right, it's like, well, whatare you doing in your life?
That's creating this milieu,that's welcoming illness.
So the best thing I can do isbe responsible for that milieu.
So that's creating this milieu,that's welcoming illness.
So the best thing I can do isbe responsible for that milieu.
So that's what I feel about thebody.
That inner chamber is thefeeling of being drummed in the
(25:39):
body.
So easy, so simple pull, itdoesn't take big motion, you're
(26:12):
just rocking.
You know swaying.
It's like being in rhythm and Ithink what pertains to your
work and your beautiful titlehere we Woke Up Like this is the
idea that we are evolving.
We probably came to this schoolcalled Earth to learn to
continue our evolution, so thedrum is an evolutionary driver.
(26:35):
It's probably what created onetheory is that from the apes,
the chimpanzees to the humanswas beating together in time,
moving together in time.
So how we can feel that in ourown bodies.
I'm excited that I have a newdrum class this year at Shift
Network that is dedicated torhythms for awakening, because
(26:57):
there are patterns.
You know the drum has this deepbass and the higher pitch on the
side and there are patterns.
Like we want to hear that bass.
You know there's patterns.
Or if we're in Cuba, wherewe're not gonna feel that
(27:18):
grounded based, you know wherethings are reversed in the Latin
American world.
So I've been collecting theserhythms around the world and in
running Global Rhythm Sangha,and I really love knowing these
rhythms and I want this to be inpeople's vocabularies.
(27:38):
I want people to know how tospeak drum, which is the
unspoken, but it is a language,so I just think it feels good
when you drum.
It feels good in your body, asmany people said to us when we
studied them in COVID in ourproject.
People with long haul thatcould hardly move said they
(27:59):
could feel their cells waking up.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Wow, it's so incredible and it's such a
powerful instrument.
It's such a powerful tool forawakening and I'm so excited
that you're creating this classon the shift network.
It's so important I'm going toput a link to it below for
people to sign up, becausedrumming is one of the most.
Like you said, it's a simplepath.
This is.
There are simpler ways and, andyou know, they do all lead to
(28:24):
the same place on the mountain.
So it's like well, how do youwant to get there?
How do you want to get to theplace on the mountain that you
want to get to?
You can take the hard road, ifthat's what calls you, or you
can take a more fun, more simple, language free path, and for me
that is really what worked andit certainly has helped me to
calm that, that default modethat's constantly overthinking,
(28:48):
busy mind thinking, thinking.
Christine, how long have youbeen playing the drum?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I started studying hand percussion after I
graduated from Michigan State.
I must have been about 21 or so, and that's when I first put my
hand on a drum, and that's whenthe drum that you found, that
you showed us that you stillhave.
Yeah, well, that was a differentdrum.
I was just playing congas at aparty, at a drum circle event,
(29:15):
and I just went what is this?
I had this huge belief that Icouldn't play percussion, that I
had no rhythm.
I really believed that, and so,all of a sudden, three hours
went by, like 10 minutes, and Ijust experienced this incredible
connection and love for everyperson in the room that I'd
never met, total strangers, andI just said what is this?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I want to study this, and you also mentioned your
rhythm sangha, which I am amember of and I love it.
So tell everybody what yourrhythm sangha is, that you do.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Well, I started this project six years ago and it's
called Global Rhythm Sangha.
Sangha is a Sanskrit word forthe sacred community and we have
people from seven countries.
We have a group of people thatgather online once a month and
we learn a different culturalrhythm every month from a
cultural master.
So there's no appropriation.
(30:07):
We get to meet the teachers onZoom.
You know, I just realized thatI had really a blessed decade of
my life living in upstate NewYork at the time where I studied
with all these master drummersI mean djembe teachers, west
African teachers, you know,africans, egyptians.
I met people from the culturesand then I would go to Seattle
World Rhythm Festival and studythere Same kind of thing.
(30:28):
And I thought, now that we haveZoom, can't we create this
online?
So it's really fun.
I handpick and curate theteachers and bring people
together pretty affordably oncea month to learn the rhythm and
we have a practice call and I'mso glad you're in our community
and I really I'm learning fromrunning the program.
I mean, I walk around practicingthe rhythms each month and,
(30:49):
like this month we're going tolearn IU but transfer them from
the Middle East and Iran and youknow, just so fun to learn them
and practice them and then youexpand.
It's like you know you'relearning, kind of like learning
a song.
But I really have beeninterested in patterns because
patterns like we have sacredgeometry, right Patterns
(31:10):
everything is a pattern.
Everything is math really,essentially and I'm not an
astrophysicist or anything and Ican't even really understand
that field very well.
But what I do know from being abotanist is that the perfection
of everything has symmetry andthat is something that happens
in a rhythm mantra and it justrepeats and repeats, and repeats
(31:32):
.
And we do that to get out ofthe default network.
We do spiritual practice to bein the spiritual network, to be
in the experiencing network ofour brains.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I love that and it's, you know, when we take that
practice work that we're doingand I don't even call it
practicing because it's likeit's my sacred time, it's my,
it's my church to go to mychurch of music every day, my
church of sound, and I find thatnow, when I'm out in real life,
like this is what the practiceis for is that we can now tap
into that self more than thedefault network when we are out
(32:05):
in the world.
Do you find that to be true foryou also?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yes, I think the first thing that happens is I
become much more of a witness ofobserving which one I'm in and
what triggered me to go there.
And I just had a breakthrough.
I was performing at a Sufievent a couple of weeks ago with
my band and I had my harmoniumand we were singing.
And I had a breakthroughbecause, as a performer, it's
(32:29):
easy to fall into the egonetwork because everyone's
looking at you and you have that.
You know, am I good enough?
Do I look right?
How's my sound?
And all of a sudden, I didn'tcare about any of that and I
experienced this transcendenceof the typical mind of the
performer and I realized howchallenging that is when you are
a performer and it's easy tofall into that.
(32:51):
Everyone's loving me, right?
What a trap.
And so because you're justgoing to get off that stage.
So I realized how important itwas to transform beyond that and
transcend that and just be ofservice.
It isn't really what else arewe here to do and just be of
service.
It isn't really what else arewe here to do?
We're here to be of service andto feed people, and I feel like
(33:12):
sound.
Is that nutrition?
It's that.
It is what feeds people.
It feeds me, the other thingthat happens.
So I notice it in my witness,I'm more and more clear about it
, I'm more and more confidentthat my practices are working
because of how I see my day goby and I noticed the music of
life which is like so cool.
(33:34):
Like the wind just blew when Iwas walking over here and I've
really heard the note of it.
Wow, I think we have to becomegood listeners as well.
There's a lot of urban noise,you know noise pollution, but
there's also when you get awayfrom that and you go out in the
desert's also when you get awayfrom that and you go out in the
desert and you just even in abackyard and you just kind of
listen to a bird in the morning.
What a thrill.
(33:54):
I mean, the whole world isreally the natural world is
really symphonic and it'sbeautiful and it's that's where
I go.
That's what I do to rejuvenatemyself is just sit and listen to
that natural world.
It might be the river flowingby at the Snake River, or snow
melting, or you know thesebeautiful sounds, or even the
(34:16):
quiet after the snow and you'reon skis and it's just so quiet
in the woods.
You know, these are things thatare so simple and it's just
here.
We are always trying to teachanything complicated.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I know we're always bathed.
If we're paying attention andwe're in nature, we're always
bathed in this beautiful soundbath that's coming in, and I've
had those same experiences ofjust closing my eyes and
listening to the sound of windrustling through the pine trees
and the birds chirping in thedistance and somebody cracking
on the pines as they're walking,and just those beautiful.
(34:54):
They bring you very present,and I feel like that's what all
of these experiences are for isto bring us back to presence,
because we can only listen rightnow.
And speaking of yeah, speakingof you know how, you know you're
operating in the world, thoughin that your experiences are
working, your practices areworking because of how you're
showing up in the world, andthank you for sharing that
(35:16):
awareness of being on stage andcatching yourself in that.
I do that too.
I mean, we're human, of coursewe do, and it's like, oh yeah,
let me step back into serviceand out of my worry about how
I'm being perceived, and stepback into being of service,
letting my heart be of service.
I know that you have done somereally powerful healing and
(35:37):
peace work with the drum aroundthe world, with different groups
of people.
How does the drum unite peopleand bring peace.
That you have seen in yourexperience.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I think basically it is this common language of the
heartbeat of humans.
You know, and it doesn't matterif you sing in one scale and
you know there's a lot ofdifferences in the global
perspective of ethnomusicology.
You know very different scalesin Iraq than America, or Native
American, or you know SouthAmerican, latin American rhythms
(36:08):
, very syncopated, right.
But when you get to the drumbeat, you know everybody's
really can be on the sameharmony.
You know it can really createthat harmony.
That's a gift of the drum isthat we don't have to tune our
instruments to each other.
You know, am I in the same keyas you?
I don't think so.
You know you're out of key.
We can't play together.
(36:28):
But in the drumming it doesn'tmatter what language.
I worked with these in this warzone in Iraq and the people
that spoke Arabic or Kurdish orAramaic or Yazidis, and
everybody could speak drum, andactually they were amazed and I
also said doom, taka, taka, doom, and they were like wait,
that's what we say.
Yeah, you know.
(36:48):
So I remember one time callinga young man who was in that
project and I had a cell phone.
That second year I went back toIraq and I called him.
He lived in Halabja and when heanswered the phone he said taka
taka doom, taka taka, doom,doom.
And I said doom doom, taka takatak.
And we just had a conversationlike that and I thought, yeah,
because when I didn't have atranslator we could, absolutely
(37:10):
couldn't talk to each other.
I mean, like, really, I have Iknow like three words in Kurdish
right, so it wasn't easy.
So I think the thing that'shappening now is more and more
conflict.
You know, I was at the RotaryWorld Peace Conference a few
years ago.
People are tracking this globalconflict and all the massive
numbers of refugees, the humanmigrations that are happening
(37:32):
and the climate change, and it'sa very challenging time on the
planet.
And I'm not a kumbaya person,I'm not like, oh, if we just
drum together, there'll be peace.
I actually think the path topeace is very individual.
I think we have to do ourpractice and anchor it and at
the same time, it really isbeautiful to watch a
(37:53):
transformation from enemies andI saw this in the war zone from
total enemies.
That's hatred, and we'retalking about years of hatred.
You know, going back theancestors who fought each other,
so there's a whole genealogy ofwar going there To suddenly
jamming together and when youplay the same music together,
(38:15):
you can't help but feel aconnection to another person.
It happens through entrainment.
It's a human.
There's a woman who did a studyon that and found that actually
, when we beat together, wepulse together.
Whether it's dancing ordrumming, whatever it is
movement together, sharedmuscular bonding is the language
in science.
It creates more compassion andkindness, and those have got to
(38:36):
be important for changinghumanity.
Kindness and compassion.
The Dalai Lama says my truereligion is kindness.
So in our global rhythm sangha,I always feel that that's what
happens.
Is we meet that person from adifferent country that might
even not even speak our language, and sometimes they don't, and
we're trying to learn theirrhythms.
(38:57):
You know, and something changesand you hear about the news in
iran and you feel differentbecause you just met, you know,
uh, someone from iran in myclass and you're like, oh well,
I feel different about that.
So it's a matter of, as youasked me about the, the drum for
bringing people together, Ireally didn't think it could
work as well as it did.
Even I was surprised and Ithink it is like, potentially,
(39:21):
as you say, we're here, we'rewired for awakening.
I think we're really wired forpeace and and there's a desire.
When you drum together, youdon't want to mess up the beat,
you don't want to fight throughyour drum, you want harmony.
Right, it's like being inharmony.
So it's a challenging timeright now, and it's important to
(39:42):
stay present with our own joyand happiness, which is our
birthright as well, and findingwhat works for you.
The tip I have today issomething that I did eight years
ago that was life-changing forme.
I did 40 days of silence and inthat 40 days I realized a very
(40:02):
small list I wrote it on asticky note of five or six
things that made me so happythat all they took was time.
The cost of these things wasjust my time and I carried that
list.
It hasn't really changed much.
I mean, it was just funny thatthat that's my list.
And talking to you today, I hadthe insight that maybe that's
(40:26):
my list of what creates mynetwork change.
You know, playing music, beingin nature, having alone time.
Every week I take, every week Itake four hours to be alone in
nature.
I call it my nature, darshantime, and so you've come up with
your formula and I've come upwith my formula, and it's very
individual, so you have to trythings.
(40:46):
We can't tell you we can saysing drum, you have to try
things.
We can't tell you we can saysing drum, you have to try
things.
You even tried something thatyou had a resistance to with the
drum.
I mean, that's one of myfriends Kendra always says I
knew it had big medicine for mebecause I was so afraid to play
it.
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Now I know that.
Now I know that if I feel asuper resistance in my body to
something, I'm like, oh, that'sthe thing I need to go do
Because it's my ego, I alreadyknow it's that ego that knows
it's like, oh no, this is goingto shake things up too much.
We don't want her to do that.
And Christine I just love somuch and I really hope that
listeners, you take away themessage of the path of peace is
(41:25):
wired within us.
Our paths of kindness are wiredwithin us.
The path to joy, the path topresence, where everything is
just manageable in the presentmoment, is available to us and
defined what works for you.
Christine has her list of thingsand it's and you're exactly
right too.
That's the other thing that'sreally surprising is that once
you find those, find out whatthe truth of that is 40 days of
(41:48):
silence Wow, that's remarkable.
I could see how that woulddistill down to an essence of
like here's the five things Ireally need.
That's very powerful and Ireally sincerely hope that
everybody listening find thatthing, go try something.
Go sign up for Christine'sdrumming class, her drumming for
awakening on the shift network.
(42:09):
I already can tell you right nowjust from knowing Christine and
working with Christine, howincredibly amazing of a human
being she is.
There's so many people outthere that are offering these
things go for a walk, go tonature, go to the water,
whatever it is that we feel,because right now yeah, it is
there's so much tumultuous worldevents going on right now that
(42:29):
it can be very overwhelming.
And it is a, it's a, and at thesame time, it is an individual
responsibility that weindividually contribute to the
collective.
And so when we takeresponsibility for our part in
that, imagine the transformationthat can happen with a world
full of people takingresponsibility for their inner
(42:50):
joy, their inner awakening,their inner peace, their inner
bliss, their inner kindness,their inner helping.
You see somebody in need andyou help, and it's not that hard
.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
No, I love visualizing that.
I really love feeling that Isee the singing together is
important, the drumming togetheris important.
It's how we evolved, so let'skeep evolving, let's keep
evolving.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, we don't want to devolve, we want to keep
evolving.
Christine, do you have anyfinal words of wisdom and then
share where people can find youand how they can sign up for
everything and anything that youhave going on?
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I would say that my final word is just so much
gratitude for you inviting meand the work it takes that
you're producing this and havingthese deep conversations and
you're sharing yourself sobeautifully.
I really value having met you.
What was the year we met One ofyour years ago?
I mean you've really changed inthose years.
(43:44):
You've stepped through a lot ofchallenges public speaking,
singing, teaching, puttingyourself on the internet.
You've stepped through a lot ofthings that would maybe shut
people down and you're a greatexample of no, I'm going to face
those challenges, I'm going tostep through those challenges,
but you know you have you'vedone a great job of being a
(44:05):
model of stepping out andstepping through and I do
believe that the music thatyou've explored and singing in
the frame, drum and singing andthat has given you that you know
deepest, probably innertransformation, because we know
that when we create that music,we are that music.
You know I think that's theevolution is, oh, I am an
(44:27):
instrument.
You know St Francis said it I'man instrument of peace.
So just tuning into that andenjoying your human experience,
I mean if we woke up like this,wake up Every day, we wake up
Every day, we wake up, enjoy ityeah, enjoy.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
And you never know how many days you have on your
pearl.
I was envisioning days of mylife as being like pearls on a
necklace, that at the end of theday I'm like I get to string
another pearl on my necklace andI really do look at it like
that and like I don't know howmany more I have.
I hope there's hundreds, but Idon't know.
And so I wake up every day andreally say, what can I do?
How can I squeeze the juice outof this day and just live this
(45:05):
day, even when things are sucky,that there's still something I
could find joy in that day.
So, and thank you, I reallyappreciate what you said,
christine.
Where can people find you andyour beautiful work?
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, I have some great free things on my website
upbeat drum circles, or you bedrum circlescom, and that's
where you'll find my free fourrhythms of life and three tips
for playing the flute, for soundhealing a lot of good free
gifts.
So come, join my globalcommunity and be part of this
(45:38):
aspect of you know the soundhealing world, which is really
growing and it's easy to play,so don't let anything, I agree.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Thank you so much for joining me today.
I so appreciate your time.
Namaste, namaste.
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