May 6, 2025 • 29 mins
Grief transforms us in ways we can never anticipate. When Laura experienced two devastating losses in her twenties—her father at 21 and her boyfriend at 26—she discovered an unexpected anchor in her yoga practice. What began as physical release evolved into a profound philosophical framework for navigating life's most painful terrain.
Drawing from her 20+ years of yoga experience and professional work as a therapist, Laura shares how yoga—defined in ancient texts as "the stilling of the fluctuations of the mind"—creates a pathway through grief that honors both our pain and our capacity for healing. She explains how our racing, scattered thoughts during grief can be gently contained through mindfulness practices, allowing us to observe our thought patterns without being consumed by them.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as Laura and Rev Joya explore the somatic dimensions of grief. Our bodies physically respond to emotional distress by tensing and clenching around our pain. Through embodied practices, we learn to "soften around the edges" of discomfort—a skill first developed in challenging yoga postures that eventually extends to all difficult life circumstances. This physical release creates more capacity to be present with grief without being overwhelmed by it.
Perhaps most profound is their discussion of the ongoing relationships many maintain with loved ones who have died. Both women share personal experiences of feeling vibrational connections with those who have passed, noting that these experiences are only accessible through present-moment awareness—the very state that mindfulness practices help cultivate. Laura reveals that in her research interviews, nearly everyone reports some form of continued connection with deceased loved ones, challenging our cultural narratives about death as an endpoint.
Laura's forthcoming book "The Yoga of Grief" aims to broaden our understanding of yoga beyond physical postures and demonstrate how its philosophical principles can support grieving hearts. Rather than viewing grief as something to overcome within a specific timeframe, she encourages integrating it as part of our life story—not a burden we carry, but an aspect of who we've become. This gentle reframing offers a more sustainable approach to living with loss.
Connect with Laura through her website griefonpurpose.com or on Instagram @grief.on.purpose, especially if you're interested in contributing your grief story to her book project.
You can find Joya at Vibologie.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
JOYA (00:00):
You are listening to.
We Woke Up Like this and I amyour host, rev Joya.
This is a show dedicated toembodied spiritual awakening,
and we love to talk about themessy magic of living a soul-led
life.
A true spiritual awakening isnot all unicorns and rainbows,
and on this show we are notafraid to talk about it.
(00:22):
Your awakened frequency is thefrequency that will change the
world.
Enjoy the show, laura.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, and we're going
to dive into a really deepconversation that most people
don't want to talk about, and Ilove that.
(00:42):
You reached out to me andmentioned the yoga of grief.
So, with that, what is the yogaof grief?
And tell us a little bit aboutwho you are and how you came to
form this idea around grief anddeath.
LAURA (01:02):
So I've been practicing yoga for over 20 years.
I used to teach yoga.
I don't do that anymore, butI've completed a whole bunch of
different modalities of trainingwithin yoga as well.
A couple of years after Istarted practicing yoga, I had
the first of two reallysignificant deaths.
(01:23):
That would happen in mytwenties.
So my dad died when I was 21.
And then my then boyfriend diedwhen I was 26.
And those two in particularmore my boyfriend's death were
really just shattered my worldand changed the trajectory of my
life.
And after his death, my yogapractice, my physical yoga
(01:46):
practice, became the.
I felt it at the time and nowin hindsight, when I look back
on it, I can see that this istotally accurate.
But it became like kind of myanchor through my grief.
It was the one place where Icould connect with my body.
I would go to like really hard,hard, active classes, but they
(02:06):
would have, you know, kind ofthe slower part at the end and I
would just cry in the forwardfolds and the hip openers and so
that, as a physical practice,was the only thing for a long
time that I felt like I couldreally like hold on to as I was
navigating those very early daysof grief.
And then, after about ayear-ish after his death, I did
(02:28):
another yoga teacher training,which this one was a bit
different than your average yogateacher training in that it was
almost a year long.
It really focused on thephilosophy of a yoga practice,
much more than the physical partof a yoga practice, and that
study was the mosttransformative thing for me in
(02:55):
learning how to navigate mygrief for the rest of my life.
So I completed that.
That shifted a lot of things inmy perspective on grief and
just life in general.
And then, a few years after that, I went to grad school.
I became a therapist, wantingto work with grief Again, all of
this motivated by myexperiences with grief.
And as the years have gone on,my evolution, I guess, of that
(03:19):
work has just continued to shiftand evolve.
And now, while I'm stillworking as a therapist, I'm I'm
working on this book titled theyoga of grief.
And it's because a lot of usknow yoga as the physical
practice but we don't know yogaas the other elements of it,
right?
So it's defining that, first,explaining what all that even is
, and then defining how thatrelates to grief, and weaving in
(03:41):
story my personal story.
I'm interviewing other peopleto blend their stories into it,
so to kind of have it be like ahandbook of sorts for grief, of
just presenting a tool, just oneof many tools, but a tool that
we can use to navigate our grief.
JOYA (04:02):
What is the yoga?
What did you find when you wentexploring the philosophy of
yoga?
So, for people who don't knowwhat yoga means, yeah, what does
yoga mean?
LAURA (04:28):
historical yogic texts, specifically the Yoga Sutras,
yoga is defined as the stillingof the fluctuations of the mind.
So yoga is a practice thathelps us to still our mind, to
quiet down our mind, so thatjust maybe, just that could be
just one answer.
You know, when you're grievingand even when you're just living
our regular lives, our minds dotend to be very busy, very
scattered, very much attached,like we grab onto all of these.
(04:49):
Well, what if I did this?
What if this was different?
Just all of these things thatwe can attach to and grab onto.
And yoga as a practice again,both physical and non, but as a
practice of learning how to slowthat down and bring awareness
to what our patterns are, whereour mind goes, the stories that
our mind creates, and once wehave a greater understanding of
(05:12):
just what our habits are in that, then we can explore how that
relates to, how that relates toour grief.
JOYA (05:20):
That is so important and I have found that, you know, even
though I have a really strongmindfulness practice, after my
son transitioned my mind, I justnoticed how it was.
It changed my mind, it changedmy thinking and my mind became
very like it would not stop.
(05:42):
And the mindfulness aspect ofit.
I realized that it was like, oh, this is making me very aware
of what I'm thinking about,which I found to be so helpful
so that I could immediately stopthose thoughts that were you
should have done this, thisshould have happened, like all
of those should have, would have, could haves that I quickly
discovered that that is a griefhole, that if I fall down it,
(06:03):
it's going to suck me into areally dark, helpless place,
because it really is a helplessplace when there's nothing,
there's nothing that can be doneto change what is.
And so that moved me quicklyinto acceptance.
But in that acceptance phase, Ifound my mind still looping,
attacking me like it was justthis really vicious place that
(06:24):
that began to come up in my mind.
And when you reached out,attacking me like it was just
this really vicious place thatthat began to come up in my mind
and when you reached out to me.
I thought it was so interestingbecause I had just remembered
at that point and I don'tremember how far along I was
already and I mean I'm not veryfar along in this journey at all
but remembering to do my soundyoga, the chanting, the
meditating, remembering to do mysound yoga, the chanting, the
(06:46):
meditating, those vibrationalpractices that again, like you
said, put you in your body andstill the mind.
So I really love thatdefinition of yoga, of a
practice of stilling the mind,and how do you find that that
helps?
And how does coming into thebody help us to still our mind?
What's the somatic practicesbehind that?
LAURA (07:04):
Yeah, yeah well, so it can be helpful or at least in my
experience it was helpful inrecognizing the practice of
stilling your mind.
First you have to become awareof what your mind's doing, where
your mind likes to go.
We all have broad umbrellathemes of kind of like the
(07:28):
stories we tell ourselves or theway that our minds make sense
of things, and so once we canget an understanding of what
that is for ourselves, typicallythose themes still apply to our
grief and we can just start tosee this as a pattern, not
necessarily as a truth, but justas a pattern of what our brains
do and then we can, of what ourbrains do and then we can.
(07:55):
You know, one of the corepractices I think that I walked
away from all of this yoga studywith was the practice of
relaxing with what is, orsitting in something really
terrible, really uncomfortable,but learning how to sit with it
instead of run from it.
So those were some of thethemes I think that I took out
of the practice.
But physically, we hold theemotions in our body in that our
(08:20):
bodies respond to physically tohow we're feeling, and if we're
feeling something that's hardor stressful or uncomfortable,
oftentimes our bodies willtighten and clench around that.
So as a physical practice theyoga or any other physical
practice it just helps us tomove that energy and physically
(08:43):
release the tension, becauseit's you know, grief is going to
be hard no matter what, butit's, it can be easier to manage
if our body's not fightingagainst it, if our body's not
clenching and holding andresisting it, and if we're able
to just soften into it, even ifit's just by a little.
JOYA (09:01):
But softening into it makes it a little bit more
manageable yeah, I like how yousay a little bit more manageable
.
Manageable yeah, I like how yousay, a little bit more
manageable, yeah, and then, ofcourse, there's time, the factor
of time, and our and our ownself care and our own self love
and honoring.
(09:22):
I love that turning toward andreally honoring how I was
feeling, and I and I know for methat when I, when I noticed
what was going on in my mind andI and I went to work to quiet
my mind by going into my body,by turning toward, and, and that
, that, I think, was what kickedup all the angst in my mind,
because I have a long history ofrunning from things, and so
just in this past year, I hadstopped drinking, I stopped
(09:43):
using any kind of mind alteringsubstances, I stopped overeating
, so I had stopped doing all ofmy go to things that numbed me
and distracted me.
And so then, when this camealong, everything in my mind was
like you need to numb, you needto check out, and when I wasn't
, I found my mind attacking meand so going into my body and
softening.
It's exactly that it wassoftening, softening, turning
(10:05):
toward, knowing I can handlewhat is.
And when I did that, I foundthat there was a rhythm almost
to grief where I could feel itarising in my body like a wave,
and if I gave myself permissionto just turn toward that feeling
and let it out, obviouslythrough tears, through crying,
that it would pass and then Iwould find like a breath would
(10:28):
come again and I could go backinto being in the present and
doing the dishes and doing thelaundry and being present with
those things in life that stillneeded to be done.
That I feel like that, thatclenching and that avoiding,
that wishing for things to bedifferent than they actually are
, is such a pain that does.
(10:49):
It causes the body to just toharden.
And what?
What have you found in workingwith grief?
Have you found the differentways?
What am I trying to say here?
Like the different ways thatpeople handle it, or is there a
way to soften it and turn towardit?
LAURA (11:06):
there are.
There are a lot of differentways.
One of the things that reallyresonated with me as a yoga
practice and that sometimes Isoftening around the edges of a
pose, a challenging pose.
(11:33):
So if you're holding I mean itcould be any pose, but if you're
holding warrior two, forexample, and you're there for a
long time, your shoulders startto get tired.
You know you don't.
Your mind starts to say, okay,when is this going to be over?
You know and you can find thelittle places where you can
soften around that and this is apractice.
But once you learn how to dothat, that applies everywhere.
(11:54):
You can do that.
You can do that in anysituation and learn how to
soften around the edges ofanything that life might bring
to you, including grief.
JOYA (12:06):
So in my experience that I'm, you know, in handling this
unexpected loss of my son, whowas only 18, that I'm finding
now that, because of my deepspiritual practices and my deep
spiritual knowing from my ownexperiences that I've had having
a near-death experience andthose kinds of things, that I'm
(12:28):
literally cultivating adifferent kind of relationship
with him, I can feel himvibrationally and energetically.
So I'm curious if you also havethat experience and have spoken
with people who have thatexperience of when we learn how
to calm our mind and bring ourfrequency into a coherent state,
that there's a differentvibrational frequency that comes
(12:49):
through, where we can feel andhave experiences with the people
that we love who are no longerin their physical bodies.
LAURA (12:57):
Yeah, this is one of my favorite current topics.
I love this, yes, but I, yes, Ihave felt that since I mean
it's been 18 and 20 somethingyears since my deaths happened,
and I have felt that since thenit has evolved with time and
changed with time, but I've feltthat connection with them.
(13:18):
So that's been something I'vejust been kind of observing and
been curious about as all theseyears have passed.
You know how that has shifted.
But I've, as I've been workingon this book, I've been
interviewing people to put theirstories into it, and that's a
question that I've been askingpeople and it's been actually
surprising to me.
(13:39):
I think so far, every singleperson has said yes.
I felt that in some way, whichI didn't necessarily expect.
That, because I think, well,it's not something we talk about
that much and I expected, if Ijust asked you know random
people more often than not itwould be no, but most people so
far have.
They've it's been different inhow they've felt it, but they've
(14:00):
felt it and I found that to bereally interesting and really
cool.
JOYA (14:06):
It is.
And it's like if everything isvibrational, then when we leave
this body, which is also avibrational construct, right
that when we, when ourconsciousness, our soul leaves
this body, that it hasn'tdisappeared, it's still, it's on
.
It's on a different son that Ithink was.
(14:28):
I mean, it was just amazing,and it was very early, like the
first week, that I was crying infront of my altar.
It was the only place I couldfind peace was in front of my
altar, and so I was just cryingin front of my altar and all of
a sudden I have this vision like, like I was up out of my body
and I could see these points oflight shooting up around the
world, of light shooting uparound the world.
(14:52):
And then I felt this feeling gothrough my body.
That felt like.
I later identified it as thefeeling of like, the when you're
being honored by people and youfeel a sense of like, reverence
about that or deep appreciationabout being honored.
And then I heard my son's voicejust go wow, mom, I didn't know
you had such a community.
And I realized that all thosepoints of light were people who
were praying and holding inconsciousness, like all my
(15:15):
spiritual family out there whowere holding in consciousness
him and our family, and thenthat that feeling that bubbled
up inside of my body was hisfeeling.
It wasn't my feeling, it washis feeling of feeling like,
because I had never experiencedthat feeling before.
From that point of view, and soI'm curious I've been kind of
researching and diving in andlooking into this topic of these
(15:38):
feeling and felt states thatcan, that we can pick up on
vibrationally from our lovedones who have passed, and I'm
curious if you've experiencedthat or have talked to other
people who have also experiencedthat.
That's number one, and numbertwo is what role does being
embodied play in our ability toactually be able to do that?
LAURA (15:59):
and hold that?
Yeah, good, good, that's a goodquestion.
Yes, for me personally, I havefelt that I remember.
One particular memory that justalways sticks out to me is, I
don't know, it was maybe sixmonths or so, within six months
after his death, and I wasdriving and I just I was driving
and things were normal and then, all of a sudden, I just felt
(16:22):
like he was in my passenger seat.
I just felt like a shift in theenergy and I just felt that and
I was like, I looked over, likehey, and it was.
I mean, it sounds it's so hardto put into words these types of
things, but it was somethingwithin that energy in the car
shifted and I felt it and I wasaware of it.
And I've talked with people whoI've worked with who've had
(16:46):
Similar but differentexperiences and stories in how
they've felt that connectionwith their person.
But I don't think this issomething we can feel unless we
have some degree of embodimentand some degree of mindfulness,
(17:07):
because if we're just goingthrough our day you know
checking my phone all day andyou know running from one thing
to the next we're not payingattention.
Our mind is always on the nextthing, so we're not present in
this moment, and that's wherethis happens, that's where these
connections happen, and so Ithink a mindfulness practice or
embodiment practice or somethingthat teaches us how to be
(17:29):
present, that's the doorway inthrough which we can feel these
things and have theseconnections, maintain these
connections with those people.
JOYA (17:42):
Yeah, and it's beautiful and it's lightened up my load of
grief so much.
And that's not to say that Idon't miss him physically of
course I do, and he's physicallynot here anymore, but he is
vibrationally here, and I feelhim all the time.
So I and I am so grateful forthat, for for having done all of
the work somatically to bepresent, to be in my body, and
(18:05):
this has become also such apassion of mine now, of you know
, keeping our frequency coherentand especially when we are in
grief or we know grief is coming, or even if we don't, it's such
a normal part of life.
Let's talk about how death is anormal part of the human
experience and on the wet in theWest, it's something that no
(18:27):
one wants to talk about, no onewants to deal with, but yet it's
.
It's as much of a part of lifeas birth.
It's the opposite, it's theopposite right Of birth.
And so let's talk about, let'stalk about normalizing death and
I love that you're on a missionto do that and normalizing
grief.
LAURA (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, I mean when I was.
I mean this was almost 20 yearsago when I had my experiences
and I was in my twenties.
I was very young and thingswere different, as you know.
As far as social media, as faras how much we talk about things
, everything was different atthat time, but I couldn't find
anything in terms of support andwhat felt like good support.
(19:06):
And even you know, being youngand being new in my grief, I
recognize that I know we're allgoing to die, and so I.
There was some.
I felt a disconnect at thattime because I'm like this seems
so absurd.
You know that none of thisexists when this is going to
affect all of us.
So, yeah, ever since then, it'sjust been something that I've
(19:29):
haven't I don't shy away fromtalking about, and something
that I've made a part of mylife's work to to talk about it
and to make that more of anormal conversation.
JOYA (19:40):
How do you know if your grieving is healthy?
LAURA (19:43):
Oh, it's a, I don't know, that's a.
I think that's a hard questionthat comes up frequently, a hard
question that comes upfrequently.
I hesitate to say that anyrepresentation of or any form of
grief is unhealthy, because Ithink in any way in which it
might show up, as long as it'smaybe with a precursor, as long
(20:08):
as that grief is actually beinglooked at or felt that it might
be considered healthy given thecontext of whatever the
situation is, I think it can.
I don't even know if I wouldcall it grief, though if we get
into avoidance, if we'reavoiding the grief, can we call
that grief.
I don't know, but that's wheremaybe it can get into unhealthy,
(20:32):
depending on what you're doingto avoid it, and long-term
avoidance of it can be unhealthybecause then we never face it,
yeah, and what you sweep underthe rug, you eventually start
tripping over right.
JOYA (20:41):
It's like it doesn't go away.
It's still there and it willneed to be looked at at some
point and dealt with andemotionally healed or released.
I would say you can't heal fromgrief.
It's really something you learnto live with.
Yeah, what would you say topeople who feel like they're
stuck in grief if someone haspassed away?
You know, because I've hadpeople ask me this question and
(21:02):
I'm like this is I'm not a griefexpert, I'm only going through
my own experience and I realizeand recognize that how I'm
handling it is unusual for mostpeople.
But I get asked that questionis how do you get unstuck?
LAURA (21:16):
Well, first I would be curious about, when they say
stuck, what that means.
People often have anunrealistic expectation of what
grief is or what grief shouldlook like.
So some people that I've workedwith have thought they're stuck
after six months, and sixmonths is like a blip in time,
you know, that's barely anythingin the grief road or on the
(21:38):
grief road.
Whatever the definition of stuckis for an individual may or may
not be totally accurate to whatone could reasonably expect
with grief, but then, you know,also looking at what their
expectation or our understandingof what grief is, because we
also think that we're going toget over grief one day, the
(22:01):
world tells us that, and so wehave this idea that, oh, oh, no,
I'm still sad, I must be, Imust be stuck or I must be doing
something wrong.
And so sometimes the work is inredefining what grief actually
is and more figuring out ways tointegrate that grief into life,
(22:23):
into your life, as opposed totrying to be done with it and
put it away and never, you know,expect that it will never be
there again.
So it's hard.
You know, stuck is a vague wordand everybody has kind of a
different definition of it, butI often you know broad, broadly
I often find that if somebody isexperiencing that it can come
from a misunderstanding or amis-expectation of what things
(22:47):
should look like or where theyshould be right now.
JOYA (22:50):
Yeah, the self-judgment piece that comes in and like
when you look at life beforethat day and then life after
that day, and then there's apart that of yourself that
acknowledges life is never goingto be the same.
So what does life look likegoing forward then?
And I find for me that's aquestion that just gets answered
in the moment that I'm in.
It's like whatever I'm doingnow is what I'm doing now and
(23:11):
there's no.
I try not to project too farinto the future and setting
these high expectations of whatit should be.
What is the purpose of yourbook?
What kind of themes in griefare you covering in your book
that you're writing?
LAURA (23:30):
Well, I think that more, as opposed to covering themes of
grief, the exploration of thebook, or maybe intention of the
book, is really about explaininga yoga practice in a much more
broad sense than just thephysical practice, so explaining
what that looks like and whatsort of practices can be
(23:53):
involved with that, both on themat and off the mat practices,
and then weaving that into grief, so explaining, okay, how does
this concept, how this appliesto grief and how we can practice
that.
So it's more, I guess, theconversation, more about
broadening our understanding ofyoga than necessarily any
(24:14):
particular aspect of grief, butjust weaving in those personal
stories, as I said, and otherpeople's stories into it as a
way of highlighting and, I guess, illustrating how these
practices can apply.
JOYA (24:27):
And I love that because as many, for as many people who
are in grief is a way to handlethat grief right that there's no
one right way and like you saidearlier, what we do on the mat
transfers and carries over intoour life.
That when we soften and turntoward in the discomfort in our
physical body when we're doing aphysical practice, that we can
then recognize that discomfortin the body that comes up in
(24:49):
different places and be able toturn toward and soften that.
And that is such a key.
LAURA (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really just a practice for life.
I mean, I'm talking about itthrough the lens of grief, but,
but this applies to life too.
JOYA (25:06):
Yeah, because life is life is life.
I've always looked at thedefinition of yoga as union with
the divine, because I practicenot yoga which is sound, yoga
which is vibrationally attuningwith the frequency of the divine
and coming into that space.
For me, in this healing journeyof, of, of redefining who I am
(25:32):
as a mother who has lost a child, you know that this is a big.
It's a big thing in life.
It's a big thing that's.
That's knocked me off of mycourse, of where I was going,
for sure, and but coming intothose practices where I can find
that stillness and be able tocome into that place of
stillness is something that I'mso, so grateful for.
LAURA (25:54):
To have that practice to come into, yeah, yeah, and in my
experience at least, it's onlythrough that stillness, creating
a place, uh, and a space wherethat stillness can exist, that
the connection with the divine,whatever that means, can can
happen.
So yeah, in different words youcould say this yoga is the
(26:15):
connection with the divine.
But there's a certain you can'tjust, you know, say I'm going
to connect with the divine.
There's a way you have to kindof get there.
JOYA (26:23):
I can't just snap my fingers because I have to go
through the process of stillingmy mind, stilling my body, just
being with what is noticing,what's arising, all of those
kinds of things.
Laura, when are you expectingyour book to be out?
Number one and number two areyou still looking for authors or
people who want to submit toyour book?
LAURA (26:44):
Yes, so, um, the book is probably at least a year out,
because I'm still finishingthese, these interviews, and
then it will be submitted to thepublisher and then it'll be.
It can take up to a year intheir hands, so so it's still a
little ways out.
I am still looking.
I have, I think, the most ofthe live interviews scheduled,
(27:09):
but I do have written interviewforms that I am still looking
for people to contribute to that.
So, yes, if anybody isinterested in just giving some
written answers, that'ssomething that's still available
.
JOYA (27:21):
Wonderful and where can people submit to that and to
submit that for your book andfind you to fill out the
information?
LAURA (27:28):
Let's see.
I think the best way to contactme would be either through my
website or through Instagram.
So my website isgriefonpurposecom and then
Instagram is griefonpurpose.
JOYA (27:43):
Okay, and of course, I'll have the links down below for
anybody who wants to contributeto this very important
conversation.
And and I love that it givesmessages of hope and healing
that life does like we do go onwith our lives, living with
grief.
This becomes something that welive with and I'm learning that
I don't have to suffer in mygrief and it's not something
(28:04):
that I have to carry with me somuch as it's now a part of who.
LAURA (28:09):
I am.
JOYA (28:10):
Yeah, that feels softer yeah.
LAURA (28:13):
Yeah, I like that perspective a lot.
That resonates with me too.
JOYA (28:18):
Yeah, yeah Well, laura, thank you so much for the
beautiful work that you're doingin the world and bringing forth
this topic of conversation andgiving people stories and tools
and ways of processing andprocessing their grief coming
into their bodies and findingthose ways to cultivate and
develop those relationships nowthat we can have with people
(28:40):
who've transitioned out of thephysical body and into their
light body, their vibrationalbody, whatever we want to call
it.
I just think that's justprobably the most beautiful work
, such sacred work, that you'redoing so, thank you.
LAURA (28:52):
Yeah, well, thank you.
Thank you for having me andtalking about this topic.
JOYA (28:56):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's so important, it's such animportant topic and, yeah,
thank you.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Thank you for listening to.
We Woke Up Like this.
Your likes, comments,subscribes and reviews are
deeply appreciated.
If you're interested in beingon the show, please send an
email to podcast at vibologycom.
(29:18):
And until next time, rememberyour authentic frequency is the
frequency that will change theworld.
You are listening to.
We Woke Up Like this and I amyour host, rev Joya.
This is a show dedicated toembodied spiritual awakening,
and we love to talk about themessy magic of living a soul-led
life.
A true spiritual awakening isnot all unicorns and rainbows,
and on this show we are notafraid to talk about it.
(00:22):
Your awakened frequency is thefrequency that will change the
world.
Enjoy the show, laura.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, and we're going
to dive into a really deepconversation that most people
don't want to talk about, and Ilove that.
(00:42):
You reached out to me andmentioned the yoga of grief.
So, with that, what is the yogaof grief?
And tell us a little bit aboutwho you are and how you came to
form this idea around grief anddeath.
LAURA (01:02):
So I've been practicing yoga for over 20 years.
I used to teach yoga.
I don't do that anymore, butI've completed a whole bunch of
different modalities of trainingwithin yoga as well.
A couple of years after Istarted practicing yoga, I had
the first of two reallysignificant deaths.
(01:23):
That would happen in mytwenties.
So my dad died when I was 21.
And then my then boyfriend diedwhen I was 26.
And those two in particularmore my boyfriend's death were
really just shattered my worldand changed the trajectory of my
life.
And after his death, my yogapractice, my physical yoga
(01:46):
practice, became the.
I felt it at the time and nowin hindsight, when I look back
on it, I can see that this istotally accurate.
But it became like kind of myanchor through my grief.
It was the one place where Icould connect with my body.
I would go to like really hard,hard, active classes, but they
(02:06):
would have, you know, kind ofthe slower part at the end and I
would just cry in the forwardfolds and the hip openers and so
that, as a physical practice,was the only thing for a long
time that I felt like I couldreally like hold on to as I was
navigating those very early daysof grief.
And then, after about ayear-ish after his death, I did
(02:28):
another yoga teacher training,which this one was a bit
different than your average yogateacher training in that it was
almost a year long.
It really focused on thephilosophy of a yoga practice,
much more than the physical partof a yoga practice, and that
study was the mosttransformative thing for me in
(02:55):
learning how to navigate mygrief for the rest of my life.
So I completed that.
That shifted a lot of things inmy perspective on grief and
just life in general.
And then, a few years after that, I went to grad school.
I became a therapist, wantingto work with grief Again, all of
this motivated by myexperiences with grief.
And as the years have gone on,my evolution, I guess, of that
(03:19):
work has just continued to shiftand evolve.
And now, while I'm stillworking as a therapist, I'm I'm
working on this book titled theyoga of grief.
And it's because a lot of usknow yoga as the physical
practice but we don't know yogaas the other elements of it,
right?
So it's defining that, first,explaining what all that even is
, and then defining how thatrelates to grief, and weaving in
(03:41):
story my personal story.
I'm interviewing other peopleto blend their stories into it,
so to kind of have it be like ahandbook of sorts for grief, of
just presenting a tool, just oneof many tools, but a tool that
we can use to navigate our grief.
JOYA (04:02):
What is the yoga?
What did you find when you wentexploring the philosophy of
yoga?
So, for people who don't knowwhat yoga means, yeah, what does
yoga mean?
LAURA (04:28):
historical yogic texts, specifically the Yoga Sutras,
yoga is defined as the stillingof the fluctuations of the mind.
So yoga is a practice thathelps us to still our mind, to
quiet down our mind, so thatjust maybe, just that could be
just one answer.
You know, when you're grievingand even when you're just living
our regular lives, our minds dotend to be very busy, very
scattered, very much attached,like we grab onto all of these.
(04:49):
Well, what if I did this?
What if this was different?
Just all of these things thatwe can attach to and grab onto.
And yoga as a practice again,both physical and non, but as a
practice of learning how to slowthat down and bring awareness
to what our patterns are, whereour mind goes, the stories that
our mind creates, and once wehave a greater understanding of
(05:12):
just what our habits are in that, then we can explore how that
relates to, how that relates toour grief.
JOYA (05:20):
That is so important and I have found that, you know, even
though I have a really strongmindfulness practice, after my
son transitioned my mind, I justnoticed how it was.
It changed my mind, it changedmy thinking and my mind became
very like it would not stop.
(05:42):
And the mindfulness aspect ofit.
I realized that it was like, oh, this is making me very aware
of what I'm thinking about,which I found to be so helpful
so that I could immediately stopthose thoughts that were you
should have done this, thisshould have happened, like all
of those should have, would have, could haves that I quickly
discovered that that is a griefhole, that if I fall down it,
(06:03):
it's going to suck me into areally dark, helpless place,
because it really is a helplessplace when there's nothing,
there's nothing that can be doneto change what is.
And so that moved me quicklyinto acceptance.
But in that acceptance phase, Ifound my mind still looping,
attacking me like it was justthis really vicious place that
(06:24):
that began to come up in my mind.
And when you reached out,attacking me like it was just
this really vicious place thatthat began to come up in my mind
and when you reached out to me.
I thought it was so interestingbecause I had just remembered
at that point and I don'tremember how far along I was
already and I mean I'm not veryfar along in this journey at all
but remembering to do my soundyoga, the chanting, the
meditating, remembering to do mysound yoga, the chanting, the
(06:46):
meditating, those vibrationalpractices that again, like you
said, put you in your body andstill the mind.
So I really love thatdefinition of yoga, of a
practice of stilling the mind,and how do you find that that
helps?
And how does coming into thebody help us to still our mind?
What's the somatic practicesbehind that?
LAURA (07:04):
Yeah, yeah well, so it can be helpful or at least in my
experience it was helpful inrecognizing the practice of
stilling your mind.
First you have to become awareof what your mind's doing, where
your mind likes to go.
We all have broad umbrellathemes of kind of like the
(07:28):
stories we tell ourselves or theway that our minds make sense
of things, and so once we canget an understanding of what
that is for ourselves, typicallythose themes still apply to our
grief and we can just start tosee this as a pattern, not
necessarily as a truth, but justas a pattern of what our brains
do and then we can, of what ourbrains do and then we can.
(07:55):
You know, one of the corepractices I think that I walked
away from all of this yoga studywith was the practice of
relaxing with what is, orsitting in something really
terrible, really uncomfortable,but learning how to sit with it
instead of run from it.
So those were some of thethemes I think that I took out
of the practice.
But physically, we hold theemotions in our body in that our
(08:20):
bodies respond to physically tohow we're feeling, and if we're
feeling something that's hardor stressful or uncomfortable,
oftentimes our bodies willtighten and clench around that.
So as a physical practice theyoga or any other physical
practice it just helps us tomove that energy and physically
(08:43):
release the tension, becauseit's you know, grief is going to
be hard no matter what, butit's, it can be easier to manage
if our body's not fightingagainst it, if our body's not
clenching and holding andresisting it, and if we're able
to just soften into it, even ifit's just by a little.
JOYA (09:01):
But softening into it makes it a little bit more
manageable yeah, I like how yousay a little bit more manageable
.
Manageable yeah, I like how yousay, a little bit more
manageable, yeah, and then, ofcourse, there's time, the factor
of time, and our and our ownself care and our own self love
and honoring.
(09:22):
I love that turning toward andreally honoring how I was
feeling, and I and I know for methat when I, when I noticed
what was going on in my mind andI and I went to work to quiet
my mind by going into my body,by turning toward, and, and that
, that, I think, was what kickedup all the angst in my mind,
because I have a long history ofrunning from things, and so
just in this past year, I hadstopped drinking, I stopped
(09:43):
using any kind of mind alteringsubstances, I stopped overeating
, so I had stopped doing all ofmy go to things that numbed me
and distracted me.
And so then, when this camealong, everything in my mind was
like you need to numb, you needto check out, and when I wasn't
, I found my mind attacking meand so going into my body and
softening.
It's exactly that it wassoftening, softening, turning
(10:05):
toward, knowing I can handlewhat is.
And when I did that, I foundthat there was a rhythm almost
to grief where I could feel itarising in my body like a wave,
and if I gave myself permissionto just turn toward that feeling
and let it out, obviouslythrough tears, through crying,
that it would pass and then Iwould find like a breath would
(10:28):
come again and I could go backinto being in the present and
doing the dishes and doing thelaundry and being present with
those things in life that stillneeded to be done.
That I feel like that, thatclenching and that avoiding,
that wishing for things to bedifferent than they actually are
, is such a pain that does.
(10:49):
It causes the body to just toharden.
And what?
What have you found in workingwith grief?
Have you found the differentways?
What am I trying to say here?
Like the different ways thatpeople handle it, or is there a
way to soften it and turn towardit?
LAURA (11:06):
there are.
There are a lot of differentways.
One of the things that reallyresonated with me as a yoga
practice and that sometimes Isoftening around the edges of a
pose, a challenging pose.
(11:33):
So if you're holding I mean itcould be any pose, but if you're
holding warrior two, forexample, and you're there for a
long time, your shoulders startto get tired.
You know you don't.
Your mind starts to say, okay,when is this going to be over?
You know and you can find thelittle places where you can
soften around that and this is apractice.
But once you learn how to dothat, that applies everywhere.
(11:54):
You can do that.
You can do that in anysituation and learn how to
soften around the edges ofanything that life might bring
to you, including grief.
JOYA (12:06):
So in my experience that I'm, you know, in handling this
unexpected loss of my son, whowas only 18, that I'm finding
now that, because of my deepspiritual practices and my deep
spiritual knowing from my ownexperiences that I've had having
a near-death experience andthose kinds of things, that I'm
(12:28):
literally cultivating adifferent kind of relationship
with him, I can feel himvibrationally and energetically.
So I'm curious if you also havethat experience and have spoken
with people who have thatexperience of when we learn how
to calm our mind and bring ourfrequency into a coherent state,
that there's a differentvibrational frequency that comes
(12:49):
through, where we can feel andhave experiences with the people
that we love who are no longerin their physical bodies.
LAURA (12:57):
Yeah, this is one of my favorite current topics.
I love this, yes, but I, yes, Ihave felt that since I mean
it's been 18 and 20 somethingyears since my deaths happened,
and I have felt that since thenit has evolved with time and
changed with time, but I've feltthat connection with them.
(13:18):
So that's been something I'vejust been kind of observing and
been curious about as all theseyears have passed.
You know how that has shifted.
But I've, as I've been workingon this book, I've been
interviewing people to put theirstories into it, and that's a
question that I've been askingpeople and it's been actually
surprising to me.
(13:39):
I think so far, every singleperson has said yes.
I felt that in some way, whichI didn't necessarily expect.
That, because I think, well,it's not something we talk about
that much and I expected, if Ijust asked you know random
people more often than not itwould be no, but most people so
far have.
They've it's been different inhow they've felt it, but they've
(14:00):
felt it and I found that to bereally interesting and really
cool.
JOYA (14:06):
It is.
And it's like if everything isvibrational, then when we leave
this body, which is also avibrational construct, right
that when we, when ourconsciousness, our soul leaves
this body, that it hasn'tdisappeared, it's still, it's on
.
It's on a different son that Ithink was.
(14:28):
I mean, it was just amazing,and it was very early, like the
first week, that I was crying infront of my altar.
It was the only place I couldfind peace was in front of my
altar, and so I was just cryingin front of my altar and all of
a sudden I have this vision like, like I was up out of my body
and I could see these points oflight shooting up around the
world, of light shooting uparound the world.
(14:52):
And then I felt this feeling gothrough my body.
That felt like.
I later identified it as thefeeling of like, the when you're
being honored by people and youfeel a sense of like, reverence
about that or deep appreciationabout being honored.
And then I heard my son's voicejust go wow, mom, I didn't know
you had such a community.
And I realized that all thosepoints of light were people who
were praying and holding inconsciousness, like all my
(15:15):
spiritual family out there whowere holding in consciousness
him and our family, and thenthat that feeling that bubbled
up inside of my body was hisfeeling.
It wasn't my feeling, it washis feeling of feeling like,
because I had never experiencedthat feeling before.
From that point of view, and soI'm curious I've been kind of
researching and diving in andlooking into this topic of these
(15:38):
feeling and felt states thatcan, that we can pick up on
vibrationally from our lovedones who have passed, and I'm
curious if you've experiencedthat or have talked to other
people who have also experiencedthat.
That's number one, and numbertwo is what role does being
embodied play in our ability toactually be able to do that?
LAURA (15:59):
and hold that?
Yeah, good, good, that's a goodquestion.
Yes, for me personally, I havefelt that I remember.
One particular memory that justalways sticks out to me is, I
don't know, it was maybe sixmonths or so, within six months
after his death, and I wasdriving and I just I was driving
and things were normal and then, all of a sudden, I just felt
(16:22):
like he was in my passenger seat.
I just felt like a shift in theenergy and I just felt that and
I was like, I looked over, likehey, and it was.
I mean, it sounds it's so hardto put into words these types of
things, but it was somethingwithin that energy in the car
shifted and I felt it and I wasaware of it.
And I've talked with people whoI've worked with who've had
(16:46):
Similar but differentexperiences and stories in how
they've felt that connectionwith their person.
But I don't think this issomething we can feel unless we
have some degree of embodimentand some degree of mindfulness,
(17:07):
because if we're just goingthrough our day you know
checking my phone all day andyou know running from one thing
to the next we're not payingattention.
Our mind is always on the nextthing, so we're not present in
this moment, and that's wherethis happens, that's where these
connections happen, and so Ithink a mindfulness practice or
embodiment practice or somethingthat teaches us how to be
(17:29):
present, that's the doorway inthrough which we can feel these
things and have theseconnections, maintain these
connections with those people.
JOYA (17:42):
Yeah, and it's beautiful and it's lightened up my load of
grief so much.
And that's not to say that Idon't miss him physically of
course I do, and he's physicallynot here anymore, but he is
vibrationally here, and I feelhim all the time.
So I and I am so grateful forthat, for for having done all of
the work somatically to bepresent, to be in my body, and
(18:05):
this has become also such apassion of mine now, of you know
, keeping our frequency coherentand especially when we are in
grief or we know grief is coming, or even if we don't, it's such
a normal part of life.
Let's talk about how death is anormal part of the human
experience and on the wet in theWest, it's something that no
(18:27):
one wants to talk about, no onewants to deal with, but yet it's
.
It's as much of a part of lifeas birth.
It's the opposite, it's theopposite right Of birth.
And so let's talk about, let'stalk about normalizing death and
I love that you're on a missionto do that and normalizing
grief.
LAURA (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, I mean when I was.
I mean this was almost 20 yearsago when I had my experiences
and I was in my twenties.
I was very young and thingswere different, as you know.
As far as social media, as faras how much we talk about things
, everything was different atthat time, but I couldn't find
anything in terms of support andwhat felt like good support.
(19:06):
And even you know, being youngand being new in my grief, I
recognize that I know we're allgoing to die, and so I.
There was some.
I felt a disconnect at thattime because I'm like this seems
so absurd.
You know that none of thisexists when this is going to
affect all of us.
So, yeah, ever since then, it'sjust been something that I've
(19:29):
haven't I don't shy away fromtalking about, and something
that I've made a part of mylife's work to to talk about it
and to make that more of anormal conversation.
JOYA (19:40):
How do you know if your grieving is healthy?
LAURA (19:43):
Oh, it's a, I don't know, that's a.
I think that's a hard questionthat comes up frequently, a hard
question that comes upfrequently.
I hesitate to say that anyrepresentation of or any form of
grief is unhealthy, because Ithink in any way in which it
might show up, as long as it'smaybe with a precursor, as long
(20:08):
as that grief is actually beinglooked at or felt that it might
be considered healthy given thecontext of whatever the
situation is, I think it can.
I don't even know if I wouldcall it grief, though if we get
into avoidance, if we'reavoiding the grief, can we call
that grief.
I don't know, but that's wheremaybe it can get into unhealthy,
(20:32):
depending on what you're doingto avoid it, and long-term
avoidance of it can be unhealthybecause then we never face it,
yeah, and what you sweep underthe rug, you eventually start
tripping over right.
JOYA (20:41):
It's like it doesn't go away.
It's still there and it willneed to be looked at at some
point and dealt with andemotionally healed or released.
I would say you can't heal fromgrief.
It's really something you learnto live with.
Yeah, what would you say topeople who feel like they're
stuck in grief if someone haspassed away?
You know, because I've hadpeople ask me this question and
(21:02):
I'm like this is I'm not a griefexpert, I'm only going through
my own experience and I realizeand recognize that how I'm
handling it is unusual for mostpeople.
But I get asked that questionis how do you get unstuck?
LAURA (21:16):
Well, first I would be curious about, when they say
stuck, what that means.
People often have anunrealistic expectation of what
grief is or what grief shouldlook like.
So some people that I've workedwith have thought they're stuck
after six months, and sixmonths is like a blip in time,
you know, that's barely anythingin the grief road or on the
(21:38):
grief road.
Whatever the definition of stuckis for an individual may or may
not be totally accurate to whatone could reasonably expect
with grief, but then, you know,also looking at what their
expectation or our understandingof what grief is, because we
also think that we're going toget over grief one day, the
(22:01):
world tells us that, and so wehave this idea that, oh, oh, no,
I'm still sad, I must be, Imust be stuck or I must be doing
something wrong.
And so sometimes the work is inredefining what grief actually
is and more figuring out ways tointegrate that grief into life,
(22:23):
into your life, as opposed totrying to be done with it and
put it away and never, you know,expect that it will never be
there again.
So it's hard.
You know, stuck is a vague wordand everybody has kind of a
different definition of it, butI often you know broad, broadly
I often find that if somebody isexperiencing that it can come
from a misunderstanding or amis-expectation of what things
(22:47):
should look like or where theyshould be right now.
JOYA (22:50):
Yeah, the self-judgment piece that comes in and like
when you look at life beforethat day and then life after
that day, and then there's apart that of yourself that
acknowledges life is never goingto be the same.
So what does life look likegoing forward then?
And I find for me that's aquestion that just gets answered
in the moment that I'm in.
It's like whatever I'm doingnow is what I'm doing now and
(23:11):
there's no.
I try not to project too farinto the future and setting
these high expectations of whatit should be.
What is the purpose of yourbook?
What kind of themes in griefare you covering in your book
that you're writing?
LAURA (23:30):
Well, I think that more, as opposed to covering themes of
grief, the exploration of thebook, or maybe intention of the
book, is really about explaininga yoga practice in a much more
broad sense than just thephysical practice, so explaining
what that looks like and whatsort of practices can be
(23:53):
involved with that, both on themat and off the mat practices,
and then weaving that into grief, so explaining, okay, how does
this concept, how this appliesto grief and how we can practice
that.
So it's more, I guess, theconversation, more about
broadening our understanding ofyoga than necessarily any
(24:14):
particular aspect of grief, butjust weaving in those personal
stories, as I said, and otherpeople's stories into it as a
way of highlighting and, I guess, illustrating how these
practices can apply.
JOYA (24:27):
And I love that because as many, for as many people who
are in grief is a way to handlethat grief right that there's no
one right way and like you saidearlier, what we do on the mat
transfers and carries over intoour life.
That when we soften and turntoward in the discomfort in our
physical body when we're doing aphysical practice, that we can
then recognize that discomfortin the body that comes up in
(24:49):
different places and be able toturn toward and soften that.
And that is such a key.
LAURA (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really just a practice for life.
I mean, I'm talking about itthrough the lens of grief, but,
but this applies to life too.
JOYA (25:06):
Yeah, because life is life is life.
I've always looked at thedefinition of yoga as union with
the divine, because I practicenot yoga which is sound, yoga
which is vibrationally attuningwith the frequency of the divine
and coming into that space.
For me, in this healing journeyof, of, of redefining who I am
(25:32):
as a mother who has lost a child, you know that this is a big.
It's a big thing in life.
It's a big thing that's.
That's knocked me off of mycourse, of where I was going,
for sure, and but coming intothose practices where I can find
that stillness and be able tocome into that place of
stillness is something that I'mso, so grateful for.
LAURA (25:54):
To have that practice to come into, yeah, yeah, and in my
experience at least, it's onlythrough that stillness, creating
a place, uh, and a space wherethat stillness can exist, that
the connection with the divine,whatever that means, can can
happen.
So yeah, in different words youcould say this yoga is the
(26:15):
connection with the divine.
But there's a certain you can'tjust, you know, say I'm going
to connect with the divine.
There's a way you have to kindof get there.
JOYA (26:23):
I can't just snap my fingers because I have to go
through the process of stillingmy mind, stilling my body, just
being with what is noticing,what's arising, all of those
kinds of things.
Laura, when are you expectingyour book to be out?
Number one and number two areyou still looking for authors or
people who want to submit toyour book?
LAURA (26:44):
Yes, so, um, the book is probably at least a year out,
because I'm still finishingthese, these interviews, and
then it will be submitted to thepublisher and then it'll be.
It can take up to a year intheir hands, so so it's still a
little ways out.
I am still looking.
I have, I think, the most ofthe live interviews scheduled,
(27:09):
but I do have written interviewforms that I am still looking
for people to contribute to that.
So, yes, if anybody isinterested in just giving some
written answers, that'ssomething that's still available
.
JOYA (27:21):
Wonderful and where can people submit to that and to
submit that for your book andfind you to fill out the
information?
LAURA (27:28):
Let's see.
I think the best way to contactme would be either through my
website or through Instagram.
So my website isgriefonpurposecom and then
Instagram is griefonpurpose.
JOYA (27:43):
Okay, and of course, I'll have the links down below for
anybody who wants to contributeto this very important
conversation.
And and I love that it givesmessages of hope and healing
that life does like we do go onwith our lives, living with
grief.
This becomes something that welive with and I'm learning that
I don't have to suffer in mygrief and it's not something
(28:04):
that I have to carry with me somuch as it's now a part of who.
LAURA (28:09):
I am.
JOYA (28:10):
Yeah, that feels softer yeah.
LAURA (28:13):
Yeah, I like that perspective a lot.
That resonates with me too.
JOYA (28:18):
Yeah, yeah Well, laura, thank you so much for the
beautiful work that you're doingin the world and bringing forth
this topic of conversation andgiving people stories and tools
and ways of processing andprocessing their grief coming
into their bodies and findingthose ways to cultivate and
develop those relationships nowthat we can have with people
(28:40):
who've transitioned out of thephysical body and into their
light body, their vibrationalbody, whatever we want to call
it.
I just think that's justprobably the most beautiful work
, such sacred work, that you'redoing so, thank you.
LAURA (28:52):
Yeah, well, thank you.
Thank you for having me andtalking about this topic.
JOYA (28:56):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's so important, it's such animportant topic and, yeah,
thank you.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Thank you for listening to.
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And until next time, rememberyour authentic frequency is the
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