April 14, 2025 • 24 mins
Communication isn't just about talking—it's about connecting deeply with others, ourselves, and our spiritual guides. In this revealing conversation, Joya Cisnowski welcomes Wendy, a communication expert with a remarkable journey from failing her college communications class to mastering authentic expression.
After her parents' divorce when she was eight, Wendy developed a direct, unfiltered communication style that damaged her relationships. "I would never filter, I would never be conscientious about what I was saying to the person I was saying it to," she admits. "I was completely selfish about my communication and unapologetically so." This approach left her excelling professionally but struggling personally.
Everything changed when Wendy discovered what she calls the 70-20-10 rule of communication. She realized that roughly 70% of what people say reflects their own experiences and beliefs, 20% is a mix of their perspective and something relevant to you, and only 10% is directly personal to you. This revelation led to her profound question: "If 70 to 90% of the communication I'm receiving isn't even personal to me, why am I taking it personally?"
The conversation delves into the practice of active listening—being fully present, absorbing not just words but body language, tone, and intention. Wendy explains how reflective communication creates understanding and connection: "The most important part is they feel like they were heard." This approach transformed her relationships and ultimately led her to reconnect with spiritual gifts she had suppressed since childhood.
Wendy's story demonstrates how healing our communication patterns can liberate our authentic voice and deepen our spiritual awakening. Her journey reminds us that the principles of clear, compassionate communication apply equally to human relationships and our connection with the divine.
Ready to transform your communication and deepen your spiritual connections? Join us for this enlightening conversation that might just change how you speak—and listen—forever.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joya (00:00):
You are listening to.
We Woke Up Like this and I amyour host, joya Cisnowski.
I am dedicated to the soul'sgrowth and seeing the higher
self embodied, expanded andexpressed in every woman.
Enjoy the show, wendy.
Thank you so much for joiningme on.
We Woke Up Like this today andI'm so excited to have this
(00:22):
conversation with you becausewe're talking.
You know, this year is allthings liberation and embodying
your spirituality, embodied,awakening.
So I can't wait to hear yourthoughts on what your take is,
on what that means.
Wendy (00:38):
Oh my gosh, you know what ?
This is a perfect timing forthis because just in the like
the last three weeks, I haveovercome my anger from my
parents getting divorced andthen, um, I had somebody come
into my life.
That's really putting aspotlight on my magic and my
(00:58):
powers and my leadership andit's helping me to really
embrace all of that unabashedly,unapologetically, just
unbridled.
This is now who I am, you know.
That's the whole essence ofwhat you just said.
This year is it's about beingliberated.
It's about like finding thoselittle moments, like when I was
told at a high-end cardealership that I spoke too loud
(01:21):
and that I needed to turn myvoice down.
I'm no longer turning my voicedown.
If you don't like the volume ofmy voice, you can create some
distance.
I don't know what you need todo Put in some earplugs.
Or when my best friend in highschool told me that I went from
being playful to being justchildish and she could no longer
be friends with me.
(01:41):
We hold like these littlepieces in, even though we think
we're being our authentic selves, but we're holding like these
little pieces and I'm like youknow what?
You're gone, I am playful.
Why can't playfulness beincluded in leadership.
Why can't playfulness beincluded in personal development
(02:02):
and personal growth?
Like it doesn't have to be likethis big old, huge, serious,
intense thing.
Let's be playful about it,let's find the bright side and
the silver lining, and you know,just like we do with kids,
right, and we make learning fun.
Let's make this whole spirituallearning environment, or this
awakening moment, fun, so itdoesn't feel so weighed down.
Joya (02:27):
Yeah, there's a time for the heaviness where you, you
know, when we do the shadow work, or we know we're in, or when
we're feeling something insideof us and we have the courage to
turn toward it and go throughit, versus intentionally going
to seek somebody who's going tobe trying to constantly bring
out shadow work.
Bring out these experiences,bring out the trauma, bring out
(02:47):
all of these things that havehappened to you.
And that's one of the reasonsthat I was so excited to talk to
you after we were introduced bya mutual friend and we just had
a conversation and I was like,oh, now I know why he wanted to
connect us and it's definitelythat shared philosophy of
awakening through play.
I call what I do sacred play.
I would say my studio is asacred play studio for people to
(03:07):
come and step into thatauthentic space of flow and self
expression, with zero judgment,with, with just for the
experience of it to come presentin the moment.
So I just really appreciatethat.
And how do you bring?
I mean, that's how I bring itinto my work how do you bring it
into your work and how you workwith your clients.
Wendy (03:26):
Oh my gosh.
So I bring it throughrelationships.
Joya (03:29):
I can really hear and feel how intentional you are with
words and with languaging andwith communication, and I know
that you have a book calledverbal turbulence.
I do, yeah.
So what, as she holds it up,perfect, let's talk about your
book, because obviously I mean,we're talking about
(03:50):
communication here and this isyou are obviously the
communication wizard.
So share, wendy, share.
Wendy (03:57):
I am, but it took, man.
That was a journey.
I will tell you.
The first communications classI took, the only communications
class I took in communitycollege, I failed.
Joya (04:10):
Failed.
Wendy (04:11):
I straight up failed, and there's a long journey.
Why so?
My parents divorced when I waseight as a cancer.
For those that know numerology,I'm also a two.
That was very traumatic for me.
The way I process it was theydestroyed my family.
Joya (04:28):
So you had a lot of anger.
Wendy (04:30):
I had a lot of anger.
And then my mom felt guilty, soshe then spoiled us, which is
not a great combination,especially in such a young
adolescence going into teens,and so I really struggled
keeping maintainingrelationships, friendships, at
work none of it right.
(04:51):
My mom says so.
As I was writing this book, Idid involve my family in it,
because they are in it nobody'smentioned by names, but they're
in it.
So I gave them a chance toparticipate and read, and and my
mom's, like you, would justwalk in a room, walk right up to
the person that you wanted tospeak to, regardless of who else
(05:12):
was in the room, what they weredoing, what they were going on,
say what you needed to say,turn around and walk away.
Joya (05:19):
So just very direct in your communication.
Wendy (05:22):
Very direct.
I always felt like, if I wantedto be my authentic self, I
needed to say what I needed tosay.
Joya (05:29):
as it came out, Did you ever feel like you couldn't
share your truth at any point?
Where did you feel like youwere restricted in that way?
So you've always had an activethroat, chakra, that's working.
Wendy (05:40):
Yes, just in a very unhealthy way, because I would
never filter, I would never beconscientious about what I was
saying to the person I wassaying it to.
It was just, it was all me.
I was completely selfish aboutmy communication and
unapologetically so Like I've.
I know that I've heard a lot ofpeople growing up and the
(06:03):
biggest gift that I was given isthe 70-20-10 rule.
So I was in corporate Americaand my boss again struggling,
building relationships.
I was a great worker, I wasgreat at what I was doing, I was
one of the pioneers in thecompany, but I couldn't make
friends.
And he comes to me and he'slike look, as long as 70% of the
(06:26):
invoices go through, fine, 20%gets escalated and 10% we write
off.
That's our goal.
And I was like you're willingto write stuff?
off oh and that gave mepermission to not be perfect and
(06:48):
that gave me permission to notbe perfect.
Joya (06:49):
Oh, interesting, so up to then.
So, in the anger of theparental divorce and you're just
like I'm just going to speak mytruth Was there an element of
perfectionism in there for you?
Yes, my dad was a contractor.
Wendy (06:58):
My dad was an entrepreneur, my grandfather was
an entrepreneur, my mom was aleader in business and so, yes,
it was a lot of element of beingperfect, of needing, of wanting
and needing to be perfect, andI think there was some
self-validation and self-worthin that, through the negative
(07:19):
relationship aspect of my life.
And I turned.
I looked at that 70, 20, 10rule in terms of communication
and I realized that for most ofthe people that were around me
at that time, 70% of their oftheir communication was their
stuff, their beliefs, theirreflections, their emotions,
(07:43):
their experiences, their stuffnegative, positive, negative,
indifferent it's their stuff.
20% was some sort of acombination between that and it
being directly personal to me orthe topic at hand, but only 10%
of it was directly personal tome or the topic at hand and I
(08:04):
was like, so if seven easy mathif 70 to 90% of the
communication I'm receivingisn't even personal to me, why
the heck am I taking itpersonally?
Joya (08:18):
Yeah, oh, that's such a beautiful insight.
It's powerful.
Wendy (08:21):
Yes and then okay.
So if it's not personal to me,how do I discern through all
that static to find the 10 to30% of nuggets that I need or
that's important to me and thenflip it around on myself?
What am I putting out?
That's the 70, 20, 10.
And what am I saying to myselfin the 70, 20, 10?
(08:44):
And I realized 90% of how Ispoke to myself was negative 90%
.
Joya (08:53):
That's probably true for most people, and they're just
not aware of that self talk.
Wendy (08:57):
Right, but if I'm saying it internally, it's no wonder it
was coming out.
Joya (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly Like you come out automatically when
I say you, I'm not talking aboutyou personally, I mean when
someone is feeling like a lot ofnegative self-talk.
I've noticed that actually, Ijust heard a perfect story
that'll illustrate what I'mgoing to say.
Instead, it just popped in andthere's a story about a man who
got a flat tire, and so he'she's a very cynical, pessimistic
(09:25):
kind of man anyway and he's inthe middle of nowhere and so he
starts walking down this countryroad and he's talking to
himself going boy, I hope I finda farmer house soon and I hope
this guy has a jack and he'lllet me borrow this jack.
What if he doesn't let me borrowthe jack?
What if he's a jerk?
What if I get there and he'sjust super rude to me?
What if I get there and hepulls out a shotgun and he like
wants to shoot me, and so by thetime he gets there and he
(09:45):
knocks on the door, the farmeropens the door and he goes you
can keep your jacket.
He storms off before he askedhim if he can borrow it.
And I feel like that's what'sgoing on internally when we're
having that dialogue, that welet the thought become our
reality with another personinstead of verifying if it's
true, and we react defensivelyto something that hasn't even
(10:06):
happened yet.
Wendy (10:07):
What you know, what are the emotions, what are the
traumas, what are the neuralhabits that you've created,
that's allowed, that has allowedyou to put yourself in that
position?
How many times have you beencut off in traffic and you curse
them out?
I mean, I know I did that, sopart of my practice, when
something like that would bewhat happened.
(10:29):
You know we talk a lot aboutfinding the gratitude, finding
the silver lining, but and thatreally does help us change those
mental habits, those neuralpathways that we've created.
So, instead of cursing them outwhen they cut me off, I say
something more like thank youfor not hitting me.
Joya (10:49):
That's such a big reframe right there.
Wendy (10:51):
Such a big reframe and yet it's so simple and so
difficult at the same time.
And then I started using.
I started actively listening topeople, because if I'm going to
sort through the static to findthe 10% of nuggets then I have
to actively listen.
The more I actively listen, Ilearn their vocabulary.
(11:12):
So what I learned was I stillget to say what I need to say.
I still get to be my authenticself.
But now the communication isturned into loving, kind and
using their vocabulary so thatit's more easily received or so
that it's framed in a way thatthey will process the
(11:33):
information.
Joya (11:34):
When you say active listening for people who don't
know what that is, what do youmean by active listening?
Wendy (11:40):
It means being present in the conversation.
It means not thinking about whatyou're going to say next,
because if you're thinking aboutwhat you're going to say next,
you're not listening to the datathat they are giving you, it's
not going through the scenariosin your head of what they might
(12:01):
be saying, because then you'renot listening to what they
actually are saying.
Right, it's not just waiting foryour next turn to speak.
You're actually eyes, ears, allyour senses are paying attention
to the words, their bodylanguage, the sound, the tone of
(12:21):
voice, the intention behind it,right.
So, now, when somebody says,yes, I own myself, I can hear
the words, I can feel the energy, but I can also feel the
intention and whether or notthey fully embody that, or
whether or not they're saying itin order to help themselves get
(12:44):
to the embodiment part.
Right?
So there's a process involved,and so when you're actually
listening, actively and actuallylistening, you hear the
emotions, you're involved withthe person, you're connected
with the person, you'relistening to the vocabulary and
the story that they're using, sothat your brain can process all
(13:06):
this information.
And then, when you're ready tospeak, or as you're forming your
message, you can form yourmessage with the new data that
they just gave you in harmonywith the energy or support or
whatever it is that they need inthat moment.
It is that they need in thatmoment and just be a little bit
(13:28):
more compassionate in that space.
Joya (13:32):
Yeah, that's I mean, it sounds like a lot for people who
are listening.
They're like that's a lot thatyou have to do, like how am I
going to be aware of all of thatlistening?
But it's, you know, it's reallylistening.
Be beneath I love how you saidit's beneath the layer of the
words.
It's not just the words thatare coming out but the energy
that's behind them and feelingalso, at the same time, your own
(13:52):
reaction, noticing if you arein reaction inside of yourself
and noticing what that is.
And you know, and I used to beone of those people who would
definitely talk just to hearmyself talk, would always feel
like, oh, I have something toshare in this, I have something
to share, like I can't wait tillthis person stops talking so I
can say what I want to say.
And when I went throughuniversity of Santa Monica
(14:14):
spiritual psychology program, Ithink one of the greatest gifts
from that is that they teach youthe skill of listening, because
in every role, everything thatyou're doing, that you always at
one point sit in the seat ofthe listener, and that's such a
powerful gift.
Wendy (14:33):
Well, and they taught us that in massage school too.
Joya (14:36):
Oh, interesting.
Wendy (14:38):
Right, Because what they taught us was reflective
communication, Right?
So if the person is telling you, oh, you know, let's say they
came in for a one hour massage,but they want, and they want
full body, they want to focus ontheir back, but where in their
back?
Right?
Asking the clarifying question.
This is applicable to everyconversation everywhere.
(15:01):
Asking the clarification, theclarifying question Is it low
back?
Is it mid back?
Is it low back?
Is it mid back?
Is it upper back?
Is it sharp pain?
Is it dull pain?
Is it constant?
Is it intermittent?
Right?
All these clarifyingconversations or questions so
that you can narrow down, likewhat is actually going on and
(15:22):
then, at the end of theconversation, the reflective
communication or the mirroringin that.
Okay, so this is what I heard.
You want a full body massagewith focus on your back and your
neck, which means shorteramount of time on your arms and
your legs, and the back or theneck is the higher priority.
(15:43):
Did I hear that correctly?
That way, when you go into thesession, you know that you're
both on the and so if they endup not being happy at the end of
the session, then you can say,okay, well, we talked about this
before.
What did I miss?
Did I miss something that youdidn't tell me?
(16:04):
Because we had thatconversation right ways One.
They feel like they're beingheard because you reflected back
to.
It gives you an opportunity toaddress anything that you
might've missed and they feelyou know.
(16:27):
The most important part is theyfeel like they were heard.
Joya (16:30):
That's so, oh my gosh.
I hope people listening reallyunderstand, like this is this is
the equal part of the, thatbalance in relationships and
being in relationship is yourwell.
Who said it?
Franklin Covey right Seek firstto understand before seeking to
be understood.
That if we can really make thatour motto and go, you know what
(16:51):
I already understand, how Ithink I already understand
what's going on in me.
Wendy (16:59):
You're not in their head and they're not in yours.
Joya (17:02):
Yeah, and don't you know?
I think one of the biggesthurdles in relationships that my
I know my husband and I had toovercome was assuming that you
know what the other one'sintentions are, assuming you
know how the other one isfeeling and what they're up to,
when you really have no idea.
Wendy (17:19):
There are so many people that have proved me wrong.
Right those situations, I havelearned the assume you make that
out of you and me statement isso, very true.
There are some people that Ithat I can preemptively know
what they're going to say orknow what they're going to do,
(17:41):
but that's because of our levelof communication or just
connection or whatever, and eventhen they will still surprise
me, and I think that's what loveand that's what everything, and
relationship and partnership,collaboration, all of those
things, that's what it all comesdown to is realizing that you
(18:02):
are not them, you are not ontheir journey.
Seek to understand, seek toaccept, seek to appreciate and
just know that you're ondifferent paths.
Joya (18:15):
Yeah, and really and really seek to get to the root
of things.
If you can, like, really get tothe root of it.
Wendy (18:22):
Please be willing to get to the root of it.
Personally, I'm tired Like Idon't do Band-Aids.
I'm tired of Band-Aids.
It doesn't serve anything.
It really doesn't.
I mean, actually, I'm going tostand corrected.
There are times where a bandaidis necessary.
However, we still need to getto the point where we get to the
root of the issue.
Joya (18:42):
Yeah, yeah yeah, because there's not.
It might not be the appropriatetime to dive into something
that's deep.
Wendy (18:48):
Right.
Joya (18:49):
Yeah.
Wendy (18:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you're at a dinner orsomething and you get triggered,
that may not be the right time.
So asking for that bandaid,asking for the support, right
going to your husband and belike I'm not feeling well, I
know it's not the right time toleave this dinner, but just hold
some space for me and justunderstand that I'm dealing.
you know I'm dealing withsomething right now so that he
(19:11):
will be your partner in crime tohelp you get through the rest
of the dinner, so that when yougo home, you guys can do what
you need to do.
Joya (19:20):
Let's talk about relationships with our guides
and our higher self and all ofthose kinds of things, because I
know you also do readings, sois this an ability that you've
always had, or is this somethingthat developed later on in life
?
And what do you mean to be inrelationship with your guides?
Wendy (19:36):
So I found out about 14 years ago that I used to read
auras and tell people aboutthemselves when I was a kid.
I don't remember this because Iblocked out my childhood prior
to the divorce because thedivorce was that traumatic for
me and plus I also, you know,growing up in an Orthodox
(19:57):
Christian home.
I kept getting in trouble forit.
So for many reasons, I turnedit off.
Come to find out, the realreason I turned it off was
because I needed to learn how tolove in order to know how to
use my gifts properly.
That's that's the root people.
The divorce and the emotionsand the trauma was just the
(20:19):
catalyst for the root which waslove that's my, that's the
ultimate root of my story.
Um, and now oh, relationshipwith guides.
So I turned it off for a whileand, um, after my second divorce
and loss of a child, I decidedto go on my spiritual journey
and figure out what the heck Iwas doing, why I was collecting
(20:41):
these people, why I wasattracting this certain type of
person or group of people.
And what I learned was is thatit's our relationship with our
guides God, creator, spirit,universe, whatever vocabulary
you use, to me it's all one inthe same.
A bird is a bird, whether youcall it a dove, a blue jay or a
(21:03):
cardinal.
That's my belief system.
Not projecting, but I'velearned that communicating with
them is no different thancommunicating with you, with my
family, with my friends, with mybusiness partners, having the
two-way line of communicationasking the question, asking the
(21:28):
clarifying questions,understanding them.
What is their personality?
What do they sound like?
What do they feel like?
Are they bringing in sense?
Are they bringing in taste?
Are they bringing a visceralreaction?
Are they bringing in theemotional reaction?
Who are our guys?
What are their names?
Right, you have it's.
(21:49):
It's really important to knowwho you're talking to, right,
and a lot of this.
So, talking to human to human,we can hear each other's voices
immediately.
Right when you're talking withthe spirit world, sometimes it
takes a while for thecommunication flow to take place
(22:09):
, so there's a there's a littlelevel of patience involved yeah,
and it's your own static thatcreates that.
Joya (22:18):
the lag time is your own static in your own field that's
creating that, uh where you arein your practice and your muscle
memory, exactly Right.
Wendy (22:27):
So if you're just starting out, even if you don't
have a lot of static, you'restill practicing those lay lines
, if you will.
Joya (22:37):
Yeah.
So, lines of communication.
You can look at it as literallylaying lines of communication.
Wendy (22:42):
When you're getting information from so many
different sources at once, it'sreally hard to discern like
what's what, and so that waspart of my progression is being
able to now, instead of gettingone piece of information at a
time.
Now I can have up to fourenergies talking to me at one
(23:05):
time, but now I can discernthrough the four different ones
and have the whole conversationmake sense, and this is good.
This is working up thespiritual progression.
Joya (23:20):
And I know you have something coming up really soon.
So why don't you go ahead andshare where people can find you
and what you have coming up, ifthey're interested in
participating?
Wendy (23:29):
Yes.
So if you guys want moreinformation, you guys just want
to chat?
I do offer a free 30 minutechat.
Let's just have a conversationand see where it goes.
Like there's no obligation, wedon't have to talk about
anything in particular, justreach out.
My phone number is 844-735-6090.
(23:50):
My website is TBR that's to berevealed, TBR at spiritual
healthcom.
Joya (23:58):
Okay, fabulous.
I will have all of the linksdown below in the show notes.
Wendy, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I so loved this conversation.
It went lots of places and Ireally know that a lot of people
got a lot of great informationout of this.
Wendy (24:12):
Thank you so much for having me on here.
You're such a blessing.
Joya (24:15):
Thank you for listening to .
We Woke Up Like this.
I would appreciate a like, asubscribe and a follow wherever
you listen to this podcast.
Thank you so much.
You are listening to.
We Woke Up Like this and I amyour host, joya Cisnowski.
I am dedicated to the soul'sgrowth and seeing the higher
self embodied, expanded andexpressed in every woman.
Enjoy the show, wendy.
Thank you so much for joiningme on.
We Woke Up Like this today andI'm so excited to have this
(00:22):
conversation with you becausewe're talking.
You know, this year is allthings liberation and embodying
your spirituality, embodied,awakening.
So I can't wait to hear yourthoughts on what your take is,
on what that means.
Wendy (00:38):
Oh my gosh, you know what ?
This is a perfect timing forthis because just in the like
the last three weeks, I haveovercome my anger from my
parents getting divorced andthen, um, I had somebody come
into my life.
That's really putting aspotlight on my magic and my
(00:58):
powers and my leadership andit's helping me to really
embrace all of that unabashedly,unapologetically, just
unbridled.
This is now who I am, you know.
That's the whole essence ofwhat you just said.
This year is it's about beingliberated.
It's about like finding thoselittle moments, like when I was
told at a high-end cardealership that I spoke too loud
(01:21):
and that I needed to turn myvoice down.
I'm no longer turning my voicedown.
If you don't like the volume ofmy voice, you can create some
distance.
I don't know what you need todo Put in some earplugs.
Or when my best friend in highschool told me that I went from
being playful to being justchildish and she could no longer
be friends with me.
(01:41):
We hold like these littlepieces in, even though we think
we're being our authentic selves, but we're holding like these
little pieces and I'm like youknow what?
You're gone, I am playful.
Why can't playfulness beincluded in leadership.
Why can't playfulness beincluded in personal development
(02:02):
and personal growth?
Like it doesn't have to be likethis big old, huge, serious,
intense thing.
Let's be playful about it,let's find the bright side and
the silver lining, and you know,just like we do with kids,
right, and we make learning fun.
Let's make this whole spirituallearning environment, or this
awakening moment, fun, so itdoesn't feel so weighed down.
Joya (02:27):
Yeah, there's a time for the heaviness where you, you
know, when we do the shadow work, or we know we're in, or when
we're feeling something insideof us and we have the courage to
turn toward it and go throughit, versus intentionally going
to seek somebody who's going tobe trying to constantly bring
out shadow work.
Bring out these experiences,bring out the trauma, bring out
(02:47):
all of these things that havehappened to you.
And that's one of the reasonsthat I was so excited to talk to
you after we were introduced bya mutual friend and we just had
a conversation and I was like,oh, now I know why he wanted to
connect us and it's definitelythat shared philosophy of
awakening through play.
I call what I do sacred play.
I would say my studio is asacred play studio for people to
(03:07):
come and step into thatauthentic space of flow and self
expression, with zero judgment,with, with just for the
experience of it to come presentin the moment.
So I just really appreciatethat.
And how do you bring?
I mean, that's how I bring itinto my work how do you bring it
into your work and how you workwith your clients.
Wendy (03:26):
Oh my gosh.
So I bring it throughrelationships.
Joya (03:29):
I can really hear and feel how intentional you are with
words and with languaging andwith communication, and I know
that you have a book calledverbal turbulence.
I do, yeah.
So what, as she holds it up,perfect, let's talk about your
book, because obviously I mean,we're talking about
(03:50):
communication here and this isyou are obviously the
communication wizard.
So share, wendy, share.
Wendy (03:57):
I am, but it took, man.
That was a journey.
I will tell you.
The first communications classI took, the only communications
class I took in communitycollege, I failed.
Joya (04:10):
Failed.
Wendy (04:11):
I straight up failed, and there's a long journey.
Why so?
My parents divorced when I waseight as a cancer.
For those that know numerology,I'm also a two.
That was very traumatic for me.
The way I process it was theydestroyed my family.
Joya (04:28):
So you had a lot of anger.
Wendy (04:30):
I had a lot of anger.
And then my mom felt guilty, soshe then spoiled us, which is
not a great combination,especially in such a young
adolescence going into teens,and so I really struggled
keeping maintainingrelationships, friendships, at
work none of it right.
(04:51):
My mom says so.
As I was writing this book, Idid involve my family in it,
because they are in it nobody'smentioned by names, but they're
in it.
So I gave them a chance toparticipate and read, and and my
mom's, like you, would justwalk in a room, walk right up to
the person that you wanted tospeak to, regardless of who else
(05:12):
was in the room, what they weredoing, what they were going on,
say what you needed to say,turn around and walk away.
Joya (05:19):
So just very direct in your communication.
Wendy (05:22):
Very direct.
I always felt like, if I wantedto be my authentic self, I
needed to say what I needed tosay.
Joya (05:29):
as it came out, Did you ever feel like you couldn't
share your truth at any point?
Where did you feel like youwere restricted in that way?
So you've always had an activethroat, chakra, that's working.
Wendy (05:40):
Yes, just in a very unhealthy way, because I would
never filter, I would never beconscientious about what I was
saying to the person I wassaying it to.
It was just, it was all me.
I was completely selfish aboutmy communication and
unapologetically so Like I've.
I know that I've heard a lot ofpeople growing up and the
(06:03):
biggest gift that I was given isthe 70-20-10 rule.
So I was in corporate Americaand my boss again struggling,
building relationships.
I was a great worker, I wasgreat at what I was doing, I was
one of the pioneers in thecompany, but I couldn't make
friends.
And he comes to me and he'slike look, as long as 70% of the
(06:26):
invoices go through, fine, 20%gets escalated and 10% we write
off.
That's our goal.
And I was like you're willingto write stuff?
off oh and that gave mepermission to not be perfect and
(06:48):
that gave me permission to notbe perfect.
Joya (06:49):
Oh, interesting, so up to then.
So, in the anger of theparental divorce and you're just
like I'm just going to speak mytruth Was there an element of
perfectionism in there for you?
Yes, my dad was a contractor.
Wendy (06:58):
My dad was an entrepreneur, my grandfather was
an entrepreneur, my mom was aleader in business and so, yes,
it was a lot of element of beingperfect, of needing, of wanting
and needing to be perfect, andI think there was some
self-validation and self-worthin that, through the negative
(07:19):
relationship aspect of my life.
And I turned.
I looked at that 70, 20, 10rule in terms of communication
and I realized that for most ofthe people that were around me
at that time, 70% of their oftheir communication was their
stuff, their beliefs, theirreflections, their emotions,
(07:43):
their experiences, their stuffnegative, positive, negative,
indifferent it's their stuff.
20% was some sort of acombination between that and it
being directly personal to me orthe topic at hand, but only 10%
of it was directly personal tome or the topic at hand and I
(08:04):
was like, so if seven easy mathif 70 to 90% of the
communication I'm receivingisn't even personal to me, why
the heck am I taking itpersonally?
Joya (08:18):
Yeah, oh, that's such a beautiful insight.
It's powerful.
Wendy (08:21):
Yes and then okay.
So if it's not personal to me,how do I discern through all
that static to find the 10 to30% of nuggets that I need or
that's important to me and thenflip it around on myself?
What am I putting out?
That's the 70, 20, 10.
And what am I saying to myselfin the 70, 20, 10?
(08:44):
And I realized 90% of how Ispoke to myself was negative 90%
.
Joya (08:53):
That's probably true for most people, and they're just
not aware of that self talk.
Wendy (08:57):
Right, but if I'm saying it internally, it's no wonder it
was coming out.
Joya (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly Like you come out automatically when
I say you, I'm not talking aboutyou personally, I mean when
someone is feeling like a lot ofnegative self-talk.
I've noticed that actually, Ijust heard a perfect story
that'll illustrate what I'mgoing to say.
Instead, it just popped in andthere's a story about a man who
got a flat tire, and so he'she's a very cynical, pessimistic
(09:25):
kind of man anyway and he's inthe middle of nowhere and so he
starts walking down this countryroad and he's talking to
himself going boy, I hope I finda farmer house soon and I hope
this guy has a jack and he'lllet me borrow this jack.
What if he doesn't let me borrowthe jack?
What if he's a jerk?
What if I get there and he'sjust super rude to me?
What if I get there and hepulls out a shotgun and he like
wants to shoot me, and so by thetime he gets there and he
(09:45):
knocks on the door, the farmeropens the door and he goes you
can keep your jacket.
He storms off before he askedhim if he can borrow it.
And I feel like that's what'sgoing on internally when we're
having that dialogue, that welet the thought become our
reality with another personinstead of verifying if it's
true, and we react defensivelyto something that hasn't even
(10:06):
happened yet.
Wendy (10:07):
What you know, what are the emotions, what are the
traumas, what are the neuralhabits that you've created,
that's allowed, that has allowedyou to put yourself in that
position?
How many times have you beencut off in traffic and you curse
them out?
I mean, I know I did that, sopart of my practice, when
something like that would bewhat happened.
(10:29):
You know we talk a lot aboutfinding the gratitude, finding
the silver lining, but and thatreally does help us change those
mental habits, those neuralpathways that we've created.
So, instead of cursing them outwhen they cut me off, I say
something more like thank youfor not hitting me.
Joya (10:49):
That's such a big reframe right there.
Wendy (10:51):
Such a big reframe and yet it's so simple and so
difficult at the same time.
And then I started using.
I started actively listening topeople, because if I'm going to
sort through the static to findthe 10% of nuggets then I have
to actively listen.
The more I actively listen, Ilearn their vocabulary.
(11:12):
So what I learned was I stillget to say what I need to say.
I still get to be my authenticself.
But now the communication isturned into loving, kind and
using their vocabulary so thatit's more easily received or so
that it's framed in a way thatthey will process the
(11:33):
information.
Joya (11:34):
When you say active listening for people who don't
know what that is, what do youmean by active listening?
Wendy (11:40):
It means being present in the conversation.
It means not thinking about whatyou're going to say next,
because if you're thinking aboutwhat you're going to say next,
you're not listening to the datathat they are giving you, it's
not going through the scenariosin your head of what they might
(12:01):
be saying, because then you'renot listening to what they
actually are saying.
Right, it's not just waiting foryour next turn to speak.
You're actually eyes, ears, allyour senses are paying attention
to the words, their bodylanguage, the sound, the tone of
(12:21):
voice, the intention behind it,right.
So, now, when somebody says,yes, I own myself, I can hear
the words, I can feel the energy, but I can also feel the
intention and whether or notthey fully embody that, or
whether or not they're saying itin order to help themselves get
(12:44):
to the embodiment part.
Right?
So there's a process involved,and so when you're actually
listening, actively and actuallylistening, you hear the
emotions, you're involved withthe person, you're connected
with the person, you'relistening to the vocabulary and
the story that they're using, sothat your brain can process all
(13:06):
this information.
And then, when you're ready tospeak, or as you're forming your
message, you can form yourmessage with the new data that
they just gave you in harmonywith the energy or support or
whatever it is that they need inthat moment.
It is that they need in thatmoment and just be a little bit
(13:28):
more compassionate in that space.
Joya (13:32):
Yeah, that's I mean, it sounds like a lot for people who
are listening.
They're like that's a lot thatyou have to do, like how am I
going to be aware of all of thatlistening?
But it's, you know, it's reallylistening.
Be beneath I love how you saidit's beneath the layer of the
words.
It's not just the words thatare coming out but the energy
that's behind them and feelingalso, at the same time, your own
(13:52):
reaction, noticing if you arein reaction inside of yourself
and noticing what that is.
And you know, and I used to beone of those people who would
definitely talk just to hearmyself talk, would always feel
like, oh, I have something toshare in this, I have something
to share, like I can't wait tillthis person stops talking so I
can say what I want to say.
And when I went throughuniversity of Santa Monica
(14:14):
spiritual psychology program, Ithink one of the greatest gifts
from that is that they teach youthe skill of listening, because
in every role, everything thatyou're doing, that you always at
one point sit in the seat ofthe listener, and that's such a
powerful gift.
Wendy (14:33):
Well, and they taught us that in massage school too.
Joya (14:36):
Oh, interesting.
Wendy (14:38):
Right, Because what they taught us was reflective
communication, Right?
So if the person is telling you, oh, you know, let's say they
came in for a one hour massage,but they want, and they want
full body, they want to focus ontheir back, but where in their
back?
Right?
Asking the clarifying question.
This is applicable to everyconversation everywhere.
(15:01):
Asking the clarification, theclarifying question Is it low
back?
Is it mid back?
Is it low back?
Is it mid back?
Is it upper back?
Is it sharp pain?
Is it dull pain?
Is it constant?
Is it intermittent?
Right?
All these clarifyingconversations or questions so
that you can narrow down, likewhat is actually going on and
(15:22):
then, at the end of theconversation, the reflective
communication or the mirroringin that.
Okay, so this is what I heard.
You want a full body massagewith focus on your back and your
neck, which means shorteramount of time on your arms and
your legs, and the back or theneck is the higher priority.
(15:43):
Did I hear that correctly?
That way, when you go into thesession, you know that you're
both on the and so if they endup not being happy at the end of
the session, then you can say,okay, well, we talked about this
before.
What did I miss?
Did I miss something that youdidn't tell me?
(16:04):
Because we had thatconversation right ways One.
They feel like they're beingheard because you reflected back
to.
It gives you an opportunity toaddress anything that you
might've missed and they feelyou know.
(16:27):
The most important part is theyfeel like they were heard.
Joya (16:30):
That's so, oh my gosh.
I hope people listening reallyunderstand, like this is this is
the equal part of the, thatbalance in relationships and
being in relationship is yourwell.
Who said it?
Franklin Covey right Seek firstto understand before seeking to
be understood.
That if we can really make thatour motto and go, you know what
(16:51):
I already understand, how Ithink I already understand
what's going on in me.
Wendy (16:59):
You're not in their head and they're not in yours.
Joya (17:02):
Yeah, and don't you know?
I think one of the biggesthurdles in relationships that my
I know my husband and I had toovercome was assuming that you
know what the other one'sintentions are, assuming you
know how the other one isfeeling and what they're up to,
when you really have no idea.
Wendy (17:19):
There are so many people that have proved me wrong.
Right those situations, I havelearned the assume you make that
out of you and me statement isso, very true.
There are some people that Ithat I can preemptively know
what they're going to say orknow what they're going to do,
(17:41):
but that's because of our levelof communication or just
connection or whatever, and eventhen they will still surprise
me, and I think that's what loveand that's what everything, and
relationship and partnership,collaboration, all of those
things, that's what it all comesdown to is realizing that you
(18:02):
are not them, you are not ontheir journey.
Seek to understand, seek toaccept, seek to appreciate and
just know that you're ondifferent paths.
Joya (18:15):
Yeah, and really and really seek to get to the root
of things.
If you can, like, really get tothe root of it.
Wendy (18:22):
Please be willing to get to the root of it.
Personally, I'm tired Like Idon't do Band-Aids.
I'm tired of Band-Aids.
It doesn't serve anything.
It really doesn't.
I mean, actually, I'm going tostand corrected.
There are times where a bandaidis necessary.
However, we still need to getto the point where we get to the
root of the issue.
Joya (18:42):
Yeah, yeah yeah, because there's not.
It might not be the appropriatetime to dive into something
that's deep.
Wendy (18:48):
Right.
Joya (18:49):
Yeah.
Wendy (18:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you're at a dinner orsomething and you get triggered,
that may not be the right time.
So asking for that bandaid,asking for the support, right
going to your husband and belike I'm not feeling well, I
know it's not the right time toleave this dinner, but just hold
some space for me and justunderstand that I'm dealing.
you know I'm dealing withsomething right now so that he
(19:11):
will be your partner in crime tohelp you get through the rest
of the dinner, so that when yougo home, you guys can do what
you need to do.
Joya (19:20):
Let's talk about relationships with our guides
and our higher self and all ofthose kinds of things, because I
know you also do readings, sois this an ability that you've
always had, or is this somethingthat developed later on in life
?
And what do you mean to be inrelationship with your guides?
Wendy (19:36):
So I found out about 14 years ago that I used to read
auras and tell people aboutthemselves when I was a kid.
I don't remember this because Iblocked out my childhood prior
to the divorce because thedivorce was that traumatic for
me and plus I also, you know,growing up in an Orthodox
(19:57):
Christian home.
I kept getting in trouble forit.
So for many reasons, I turnedit off.
Come to find out, the realreason I turned it off was
because I needed to learn how tolove in order to know how to
use my gifts properly.
That's that's the root people.
The divorce and the emotionsand the trauma was just the
(20:19):
catalyst for the root which waslove that's my, that's the
ultimate root of my story.
Um, and now oh, relationshipwith guides.
So I turned it off for a whileand, um, after my second divorce
and loss of a child, I decidedto go on my spiritual journey
and figure out what the heck Iwas doing, why I was collecting
(20:41):
these people, why I wasattracting this certain type of
person or group of people.
And what I learned was is thatit's our relationship with our
guides God, creator, spirit,universe, whatever vocabulary
you use, to me it's all one inthe same.
A bird is a bird, whether youcall it a dove, a blue jay or a
(21:03):
cardinal.
That's my belief system.
Not projecting, but I'velearned that communicating with
them is no different thancommunicating with you, with my
family, with my friends, with mybusiness partners, having the
two-way line of communicationasking the question, asking the
(21:28):
clarifying questions,understanding them.
What is their personality?
What do they sound like?
What do they feel like?
Are they bringing in sense?
Are they bringing in taste?
Are they bringing a visceralreaction?
Are they bringing in theemotional reaction?
Who are our guys?
What are their names?
Right, you have it's.
(21:49):
It's really important to knowwho you're talking to, right,
and a lot of this.
So, talking to human to human,we can hear each other's voices
immediately.
Right when you're talking withthe spirit world, sometimes it
takes a while for thecommunication flow to take place
(22:09):
, so there's a there's a littlelevel of patience involved yeah,
and it's your own static thatcreates that.
Joya (22:18):
the lag time is your own static in your own field that's
creating that, uh where you arein your practice and your muscle
memory, exactly Right.
Wendy (22:27):
So if you're just starting out, even if you don't
have a lot of static, you'restill practicing those lay lines
, if you will.
Joya (22:37):
Yeah.
So, lines of communication.
You can look at it as literallylaying lines of communication.
Wendy (22:42):
When you're getting information from so many
different sources at once, it'sreally hard to discern like
what's what, and so that waspart of my progression is being
able to now, instead of gettingone piece of information at a
time.
Now I can have up to fourenergies talking to me at one
(23:05):
time, but now I can discernthrough the four different ones
and have the whole conversationmake sense, and this is good.
This is working up thespiritual progression.
Joya (23:20):
And I know you have something coming up really soon.
So why don't you go ahead andshare where people can find you
and what you have coming up, ifthey're interested in
participating?
Wendy (23:29):
Yes.
So if you guys want moreinformation, you guys just want
to chat?
I do offer a free 30 minutechat.
Let's just have a conversationand see where it goes.
Like there's no obligation, wedon't have to talk about
anything in particular, justreach out.
My phone number is 844-735-6090.
(23:50):
My website is TBR that's to berevealed, TBR at spiritual
healthcom.
Joya (23:58):
Okay, fabulous.
I will have all of the linksdown below in the show notes.
Wendy, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I so loved this conversation.
It went lots of places and Ireally know that a lot of people
got a lot of great informationout of this.
Wendy (24:12):
Thank you so much for having me on here.
You're such a blessing.
Joya (24:15):
Thank you for listening to .
We Woke Up Like this.
I would appreciate a like, asubscribe and a follow wherever
you listen to this podcast.
Thank you so much.
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