396 - High Converting Website Trends in 2025 with Whitney Bateson

This episode is a conversation I had with Web Designer Pro™ member Whitney Bateson recently on her podcast “The Growth Show” where she helps wellness professionals build and launch a successful online presence.

While she picked my brain about current website conversion trends in 2025 mainly to help her clients, we actually talked about some significant, general trends for websites today, for all industries.

She graciously let me repurpose the whole conversation for you!

If you want to know what’s working TODAY for converting traffic to customers (for you and your client sites), I hope it helps 🙂

Head to the show notes to get all links and resources we mentioned, along with a full transcription of this episode at joshhall.co/396

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Episode Transcript

Whitney Bateson (00:02):
Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast,
with your host, josh Hall,helping you build a web design
business that gives you freedomand a lifestyle you love.

Josh Hall (00:13):
Hey, hey, web designer friend, really good to
have you here, especially if youare interested in keeping up to
date with website trends andwhat is working well today for
website conversions,specifically in 2025 and beyond.
Of course, this is aconversation I actually recently
had with web designer promember Whitney Bateson on her
podcast.

(00:34):
She has a show called thegrowth show and if her name
sounds familiar it's because shewas just recently on the
podcast, back in episode 356,.
Whitney is just a true pro andshe helps wellness professionals
and so she actually had me onher podcast to talk specifically
about websites trends,conversion tips, mainly to help

(00:57):
her customers.
But we had a really goodconversation just about where
web design and websites aretoday in 2025.
So I checked in with her to seeif it would be cool to
repurpose our conversation foryou here, and she gave me the
old thumbs up.
So here you go.
Here's my conversation withWhitney Bateson on her show, the
growth show.
Give that a listen.
The links will be in thedescription and if you would

(01:17):
like to check her out, you cango to Whitney Batesoncom.
All the links we talk aboutwill also be over at the show
notes for this episode, whichwill be at joshhallco, slash 396
.
Without further ado, let's talkabout website conversion trends
in 2025 with my friend WhitneyBateson, web Designer, pro
member, podcast host, awesomeweb designer.

(01:38):
All of the above, all right,let's have some fun.
Have some fun.
Welcome, josh, to the podcasttoday.
I am so honored to have youhere.
I am honored to be here,whitney.
I just had you on my podcastrecently, so the tables have
turned and I'm here for it.
I'm pumped.

Whitney Bateson (01:58):
Yeah, I love it .
I have been a longtime listenerof yours.
You offer just such greatinsights about websites and just
business in general, and so I'mjust thrilled.
It's a longtime listener ofyours.
You offer just such greatinsights about websites and just
business in general, and so I'mjust thrilled.
It's a little bit of like afangirl moment too, because
you've been in the game for avery long time and I think first
off, yeah, just a little bitabout like how you got into web

(02:20):
design anyway.

Josh Hall (02:23):
Sure, yeah, it really all started.
I used to be a cabinet makerand a metal drummer and so, yeah
, you know a little unrelated toweb design and business, but I
was doing that and I got laidoff from my cabinet making job
and I had always had an interestin design and creativity and so
I just dove into actuallygraphic design initially, dove

(02:44):
into Photoshop and stuff likethat, and then what I found is I
really enjoyed doing graphicdesign work and then I was like
my light bulb moment was when wewere playing a festival and
then somebody asked me how muchI would charge to do their
artwork because I was doing myband's artwork and I was like,
oh my gosh, I could make moneydoing something I actually enjoy
, which every entrepreneur.

Whitney Bateson (03:04):
I feel like has that life moment at some point.

Josh Hall (03:07):
So that's how it started.
It was graphic design and then,as I found out, all roads lead
to websites, and I'm sure thisis something you've helped your
clients probably realize andmaybe they get to it on their
own, to where it's like you cando all the marketing, you can do
all the visuals, but at the endof the day, where does all that
go?
It goes to your website.
So I took web design prettyseriously and realized that like

(03:28):
wow, this is the main thing Iwant to do.
So it went from graphic designto web design.
I was a web designer for adecade.

Whitney Bateson (03:49):
And then I started teaching on it, which
started my career into YouTube,and to doing what I do now,
which is teaching what I learnedand overseeing people like
yourself, uh, who have webdesign agencies and businesses.
Yeah yeah, I'm proud member ofyour membership.
I had sat on the fence for along time listening to your
podcast episodes you talkingabout it.
I was like all right, you justgot to do it, and I'm so glad I
did, because there's just somany like great people in there
and you've built such an amazingthing clearly a lot of work and
effort and it's just it'sawesome watching from the
sidelines, Like you just createda new like pro space to

(04:10):
highlight some of the people inthe community that are really
just like, just kind of thatbeacon of like they're doing it
right, they're doing awesomestuff, like someone to look up
to and kind of just study whatthey're doing, and I was like
that is just so cool.
And then, of course, I'm likeman, I should do that.
And it's like calm down, Joshis building, has been building

(04:32):
for a long time, but it's just,it's really it's awesome to see
and it's awesome to be a part of.

Josh Hall (04:38):
Oh, I'm so glad to have you a part of it, because I
do plan on having you in theinspiration section here soon
too for the next round.
Yeah, so yeah, my community isWeb Designer Pro.
And, for those who don't know,and yeah, it's interesting
because I transitioned from aservice provider as a web
designer to just accidentallygetting into courses and then,
realizing I love teaching online, built a YouTube channel,

(05:00):
started a podcast and then wentfrom course sales to community
building and membership.
So it is, as I look back, I'vebeen self-employed for 16 years
now.
I got laid off in 2009.
I actually love to tell peopleI haven't had a job since 2009,
just to see what reactions I get.

(05:20):
So I've learned a lot aboutdifferent ways to sell.
I've been a service provider.
I've sold courses, I've soldproducts, I've sold community,
I've sold coaching, consulting.
Now I'm getting brandpartnership deals and
sponsorships.
But there's been some constantsthrough all that and it really

(05:41):
is like it's your website.
The website is kind of theconstant through all of that.
So that's why I'm even more sotoday, more passionate about
what you can do to make sureyour home, your online home, is
the top converter.

Whitney Bateson (05:57):
So I know that we help you folks with too.
Yeah, it's gotta be that place.
So, yeah, I think that's thequestion.
Most of the people listening,the people in my audience, most
of them know deep down they needa website and they want a
website.
But then there's so many peoplethat you hear talking about
well, I don't get clients frommy website.
Or I have a website but I'mgetting clients from referrals

(06:21):
or things like that, or justpeople really struggling with
websites, and so I think that'ssomething we can really dive
into.
Today is just, you know, if youhave someone coming and saying
you know how, how do I getclients for my website or how do
I make my, my website actuallyconvert better, like what are
some of those first things thatyou'd be looking at?

Josh Hall (06:41):
So we could definitely get into like design
and stuff like that, but I thinkthat, overall, the most
important principle to rememberis that everything around
websites changes and varies.
You may market on Instagram fora little bit, you may market on
Facebook, you may market onLinkedIn, you may invest in SEO,

(07:04):
you may run ads, you may beinvolved in certain communities.
All those things are variableand the one thing that's
constant is you're again, like Ijust said, your home, your
digital home, and I think a lotof people who feel like their
website isn't valuable to themit's because, well, number one,
it probably just sucks.
Or, you know, they probablytried it themselves and it
didn't go well.
Or using, you know, like acrappy builder they found on a
hosting company or something, orthey're just not.

(07:26):
They're not utilized Likethey're not.
They didn't make it a wellrepresenting home, they just,
you know, threw it up there.
And I think the most importantthing today, especially in the
wake of AI and everything else,is that you've got to build a
strong home the marketing, allthe other channels, the
algorithms that change like Ihave to be completely honest, I

(07:48):
don't care if an algorithmalgorithm changes now, because
my foundation is set with myhome, with my community, my
website home and my podcast,which is something that doesn't
change either.
I'm not reliant on algorithmsand different market trends and
stuff like that, so I just Ithink it's worthwhile for
everybody to think about havinga stable home, aka your website.

Whitney Bateson (08:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean all those
things that we're doing, thevisibility and all of that, like
those can change.
They can, like you mentionedthere's.
There's things that you'vetried and done over the years
and there's things I've triedand done over the years.
But, yeah, same, same for me,like my website is where I send
people, that's where I'm sendingpeople and that's where people
are supposed to be getting thefull picture of what I do, and I

(08:35):
think that's something thatpeople don't necessarily
appreciate.
Business owners don'tappreciate as much as, just like
your, your website reallyshould be that full explanation,
in a way that your customers itshouldn't be like a, an
encyclopedia about your businessand why you, you know all of
that kind of stuff but likethat's the spot where people get
the full picture.
But I think there's sometimes adisconnect from that

(08:59):
potentially and it's it's alsowhere you can control everything
.

Josh Hall (09:04):
Um, like, you can control everything.
You can control the userexperience.
In the web design world, wecall it the user experience.
Well, the customer experienceis really what I'm thinking of.
When somebody goes to a website, you control everything.
You can't control how Instagramis laid out, because they may
change things and then the gridlooks different.
Or you can't control whatFacebook looks like.
I log into Facebook now andthere's just so much stuff.

(09:31):
I'm like this is sooverwhelming.
But you can control yourwebsite.
You can control how you We'lljust keep on going with the home
analogy like how you decorateyour house.

Whitney Bateson (09:38):
Yeah, how you arrange the furniture, what goes
in what room.

Josh Hall (09:43):
Yeah, you really have the control and you just don't
have control over virtuallyanything else online.
So I think that's the truevalue is to own something to
control it.
And, as you said, whitney, andactually as you said before, we
hit record.
You went to go brush up on mystory and you went to my website
.
You didn't hunt around on myFacebook or my Instagram Like

(10:04):
you went to my website.
You didn't hunt around on myFacebook or my Instagram Like
you went to my website, found mystory.
I have a little me in a minute,which is probably what you read
, I imagine and just you knowyou got 60 seconds.
There you go.
That's, that's the you know thehighlights of what you need to
know and it's on my website andhopefully that user flow was
easy for you to find.
You're not like where the heckis his story.

Whitney Bateson (10:29):
So that easy for you to find.
You're not like where the heckis his story.
So you know, that's my designtoo, that's intentional too.
Yeah, and something that yousaid earlier which was
interesting, like how you phrase, is people who that aren't
valuing their websites and notseeing their, their websites, as
a value, and that they may nothave it set up fully.
And I I kind of how much do youfeel like confidence plays a
role both in like having awebsite that you feel confident
about?
But then also I know that I'veworked with people where they

(10:53):
actually were lacking someconfidence in their services and
in their abilities or theirability to sell, and that
unfortunately came through onthe website because the copy
wasn't as strong.
They maybe just didn't feel asexcited to actually put this
representation out because theyweren't yet feeling confident

(11:14):
themselves.

Josh Hall (11:16):
I agree.
I think that is a biggie, andit's harder for newer business
owners or folks who are early inthe journey.
The thing is, though, you don't.
I'm trying to go back to when Istarted my web design business,
because I had zero confidence.
The first few clients I got.
Those were my first few clients.
I didn't really have aportfolio at that point.

(11:39):
So what I learned is that youcan make up for a lack of
confidence when you don't havethe results yet with, like,
genuine care, and if you'redoing and I know you're helping
a lot of people who arepassionate about what they do
and even if they don't have theclient Rolodex yet or the the

(12:00):
the confidence of years ofexperience and proven results,
if they're really passionateabout what they do.
That's what I would translate.
So, ideally, yeah, theconfidence you build as a
business owner generally comesfrom the results.
It's like, well, look, maybeI'm feeling off this month, but
you know what Whitney had thismonth and this is how my stuff
helped her.
Another member of my communityjust got these results, and they

(12:23):
said it was because of thecommunity.
So that's my confidence now, butearly on it was the confidence
of like I'm really passionateabout this.
I'm getting better at my craft.
I really want to help you.
Your website sucks right now,so even at my level of suckage,
it's going to be way better thanyour non-web designer level of
suckage, so know.
So, yeah, that's.

(12:44):
That's kind of the the.
The confidence was a genuinecare.

Whitney Bateson (12:48):
Yeah, I think that's great and I think that's
that's good for anyone who yeah,everyone's at different stages
of their business and how muchresults they have, and creating
that confidence.
And I think, like when I workwith our members in our program,
like we're working on gettingclarity and like who your
customers and what your why isand all of that, and like that

(13:11):
confidence can be built prettyquickly as long as you're like
focused on it and knowing thatlike hey, I really need to
convey like what I'm about andwhy I care on my website.
Like you do need to stand forsomething, because that home if
that home is like a whitewashed,generic, cold office building

(13:32):
that looks like every otheroffice building, because you're
scared to put a fuzzy pillow onthat couch, because you're
you're not sure you know that,that you want to say like I care
about this or I feel this way,then anyone coming into that
home is not going to connectwith you.

Josh Hall (13:53):
Yeah, and I think a way to build confidence too
which is really in line withwhat you do, is to have a
website that is based off ofwhat works for others, because
you can actually buildconfidence when you have, for
example, a website and it's like, oh my gosh, I suddenly look
legit, I look like I've beendoing this for a decade just

(14:15):
because of the design, and Iknow you're helping people with
copy as well.
So that's a biggie too.
Ideally and it's one thing I'velearned with helping students
in my community Web Designer Pro, which is especially the folks
who are early on they're like Idon't know what my site should
look like.
I don't know how to design it.
I'm like I have a, you know, atemplate.
This is a good starting point,and then suddenly they get that

(14:38):
up and they look like wow, I'vebeen.
It looks like I've been doingthis for at least a few years.
So that's a great way to likefast track confidence as well.
I mean, of course, your care,your passion, is going to trump
everything, especially when,when it comes to like booking
calls and booking clients andcreating copy that's unique to
you.
But yeah, you can fast trackthe journey with a proven site

(14:58):
design, which I know you'rehelping folks out with.

Whitney Bateson (15:01):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
And then it's something you canriff off of and you can
continue as you get clearer onon what you're doing and it just
it is that loop of, like youjust mentioned, like you have
this site that you're now reallyconfident about.
Then you can be going out andgetting more customers and all
of that.
So it's like this virtuouscycle.

Josh Hall (15:22):
So it's like this virtuous cycle.
Yeah, it's really cool too withthat idea of confidence.
I feel like most people who saytheir website doesn't do
anything for them they don'tsend people to their website
because they know their websitesucks so they're like, yeah,
don't look at the website.
It's not something I takeseriously, but when you are
confident in your website, thatis the foundation for every

(15:44):
other bit of marketing.
And I had a guest on thepodcast a while ago and this has
just stuck with me ever since.
It's been like two or threeyears, maybe longer, but he said
social media and othermarketing channels is your
marketing team.
Your website is your sales team, and that's a very, very big
distinction.
And I think a lot of people maytreat their website like

(16:06):
marketing, but if you treat yourwebsite like an intentional
sales process, then you can doall the marketing on any other
channels that are going tofluctuate as much as you want,
but you get into the website.
That's where it's really clearand you don't need to be ashamed
to say this is who I help, thisis what I do.
This is how much it isdepending, or maybe it's a call
to action, like book a call, andthen that's the harder, not the

(16:29):
harder sell.
But you know what I mean.
That's like the close.
So marketing there's close.
Your website is the sales yeah.

Whitney Bateson (16:36):
Yeah, yeah, I love that, yeah, and I think
that is something that isconfusing sometimes to business
owners of like, putting websitein, that that marketing like
stack and it's like no, it's, itcan do some things in
attraction, you know, with SEOand all of that, but it is so
sales focused.
It is the last point, usuallywhere people are coming.

(16:58):
You know, yeah, I guess somepeople manage people in the DMS.
For me, that would drive meabsolutely insane if I had leads
DMing me and emailing me and no, come to the website, one
channel, go there, learneverything.
And I know so many people Imean, all of us were so busy.
So to be spending a ton of timere-explaining the same thing to

(17:19):
people about what you do andanswering a bunch of questions
or like back and forth, andhaving to remember, oh, this
person sent me a message hereand whatnot, like that would
drive me insane.
I don't, I don't have time forthat.
So the website is what doesthat?

Josh Hall (17:34):
Yeah, yeah.
And even for folks who aredoing sales via DMS, it's, it's
still like if they want to buyfrom you or book a call, it
probably goes to your website,so you can still the message
still remains the same where allroads still lead to the website
.
You're not going to book a callthrough Instagram.
Maybe you have a calendar linkor something, but that's yeah.

(17:55):
That's a whole nother.
Yeah, you're missing theopportunity to again guide
somebody with what they need toknow.

Whitney Bateson (18:02):
Yeah and really like show that value too,
because your website often isgiving that clearer picture of
just how good you are and it hasso much more deep information
that's organized, like youmentioned in this journey, for
people to explore, Whereas ifyou're just relying on social
media or you know, profile andsome directory like it's just
not conveying your value, justpoint blank period and then if

(18:30):
someone does book a call to geton the phone with you, it might
be harder to sell to thembecause they're just not primed
in that way that someone whovisited your site, as long as
your site actually had all these, these proper things on it, um,
would be.

Josh Hall (18:41):
I think one big important thing to think about
too for most service-basedbusinesses and providers is
referrals.
So if you only have a Facebookpage and that's where you
conduct your business and thenyou know you have a client, lisa
, who wants to rave about you,she shares it with her friends,
but they're not on Facebook.
Maybe they're on Instagram, butyou don't have an Instagram.

(19:03):
Suddenly you have just lost theability for them to like, check
you out and view the story andsee what you offer if they're
not on Facebook.
So that's another importantthing in marketing now is every.
There's just so many scattereduh areas of like focus and I
think a lot of people aredistracted on different
platforms and they're siloedLike.

(19:24):
Most people are, like reallyactive on a couple of platforms,
which means if you don't have awebsite, you have to get all
your clients on those platforms.
Otherwise, especially when inthe case of referrals, you're
kind of stuck Like, you have tobe on there.
So even more so, reason to havea home that's open to everybody
, that you don't need to be on acertain platform to view the

(19:45):
website.
You just need a browser.

Whitney Bateson (19:46):
so yeah, yeah, yeah.
That makes a lot of sense.
So what are some things thatyou've seen over the years that
are like either the biggestmistakes or the biggest things
people really need to make surethey have on a site that is
focused on selling services andgetting leads and customers?

Josh Hall (20:05):
So, 16 years into this, as I've been looking at
websites, there have been trendsthat have changed for sure, and
it's funny because I got intoweb design before they were like
mobile, like phones were evenshowing websites.
So it was different back then,for sure.
But what has not changed iskind of like what I said earlier

(20:26):
who do you serve?
What do you do?
How do you do it?
If you have a process, and thenlet's go Some sort of call to
action whether it is book, acall or sign up here and, of
course, depending on thebusiness, there's strategies to
hide pricing or just be reallyupfront with your pricing and
have somebody purchase online.
But it really is kind of thewho, how, what are the big

(20:51):
things and there's so manydifferent variations of those.
But every book, everyconversion-based video, whatever
it really does get into likewho do you serve, what do you do
?
How do you do it?
Maybe there's a why in there ifit's really, really passion-led
, but sometimes why isn't asimportant initially to some
people, because when people lookat a website they're selfish,
they want to know what's in itfor me, so, yeah, those are kind

(21:13):
of the main elements.
I just always and I've beengoing back to that for sales
pages, for landing pages, forlead generator signups who, what
, how are some of the big ones?
So different variations ofthose?
Um, it is interesting, I think,now in the age of just so much
information, so much stuff.

(21:34):
I know a challenge I've set formyself is to be more concise
and a little more brief, and Iremember one of our coaching
calls and WebCenter Pro.
We talked about sales pagesbeing not as long just because
people are scanning so fast.
So I almost feel like brevityis is maybe like a current trend
that is worth thinking about.

(21:55):
Like, how can I get this salespage or this website homepage to
explain exactly what they need?
Not everything I do and not noteverything, but just what do
you need to move forward or makesome sort of decision, without
saying this is too confusing,I'm out.
That's, I think, the challengefor everybody, whether you're a
web designer or a service-basedbusiness, whatever.

(22:15):
I think it's some sort ofbrevity and again, if you go
with the who, what, how type ofthing, start with that, start
with three or four sections on ahomepage and you'll probably go
from there.
You'll probably be pretty good.

Whitney Bateson (22:29):
Yeah, I mean that's.
The interesting thing about allof this is that it is not a
complex formula, it is not ahidden secret and it doesn't
require.
I mean, I was actually justmeeting with another web
designer and we were talkingabout some of those builders
that are all very pretty, veryaesthetic.
There's lots of overlappingelements, you know there's all

(22:51):
these things, but is that reallygenerating the ROI for people?
And so there's always like newbuilders, new designs, new
aesthetics, trends and all ofthat.
But, like, what actually makes awebsite convert is not a very
complicated thing, but itrequires, like you were just

(23:12):
mentioning.
You know, if you're going to bebrief which, yeah, I've often
told people like, writing forthe web can be more difficult
than writing an email or a blogpost or something, because you
need to get that point acrossconcisely.
But you also still need to beusing language that's not
generic, it's not jargony, youknow it's, it's got to be spot

(23:32):
on, but then when you do that,like that's it, you don't need
to have a bunch of bells andwhistles to make it work.

Josh Hall (23:38):
And I think a lot of people who who are outside of
our industry of web design, wekind of have learned this over
the years, but most people don'tknow that people scan websites.
They don't read websites unlessit's a blog post or an
intentional piece of longwritten content.
But I think if everybody knewthat or realized that I have to

(24:01):
make it scannable, that willhelp with the idea of keeping
things brief.
And you're totally right,whitney, it's so much easier to
write 1500 words talking aboutyour processes and your sales
and everything you do, versushow can I get this down to like
300 words for this section orsomething?
One of the most important things, that it really does take a lot
more work to make things brief,but man, is it worthwhile.

(24:24):
So, yeah, I really think.
As far as what has not worked,I think it's people adding too
much complexity and just toomuch, especially to a homepage.
A website homepage, in my view,should really be more of a
high-level directory journey.
What do you need to know?

(24:44):
Where do you need to go to getmore?
Maybe you do want to know moreabout my web design services.
Well, there's a page for thatthat goes in extreme detail.
But if you just want to knowhow we help, what we do, when
you're ready to move forwardhere, it is Boom, boom, boom.
Here's who we help.
Here's what we do.
Here's how we do it.

Whitney Bateson (25:11):
Here.
Here's the call to action.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'sfunny.
You know I look at a lot ofwebsites and how often services
are missing from the homepage.
It's interesting because it'slike well, that's why your
website exists and there's a lotof other copy, but for some
reason, the services are notjust clearly written on the
homepage and I feel like evenspending some time to just say
what, like you were just sayingwho you serve and what is it

(25:37):
that you do, what are the thingsyou actually do?
Having that up front goes along way from people having to
like hunt and peck and you knowwhat is I mean.
Yeah, they'll see the servicestab in the top bar there, but
it's like your homepage shouldbe talking about what you do.
Like you said, it should bethat directory of like all the
other content on your site, justlittle like snippets.

Josh Hall (25:55):
And so I always go back to our my wife and I's
wedding photographer, becausewedding photography is one of
those industries that could, andoften is, for a lot of
photographers, very open-endedand they just kind of let the
groom and bride, you know,create a, you know a suite of
services.
How much, how much?
You know variety do they want?
How many pictures?

(26:16):
All this stuff and ourphotographer was such a pro.
I actually learned so much fromhim and I used to not like
packages.
I used to be very againsthaving like a packaged type
service until I worked with himbecause he even said on his
photography site he's like Inever liked packages but I love
them now.
And here's why because we knowwhat works and you know, within

(26:40):
a certain context, depending onwhat you need and what your
budget range is, this is whereyou can fall into.
We were in the middle packagefor him.

Whitney Bateson (26:46):
He had three packages and yeah it just that
was by the design.
The middle package is usuallythe best one, it was by design.

Josh Hall (26:54):
Yeah, we wanted a little more than the first one
offer, but we weren't at a placewhere we could do like that top
.
I don't know, it was like a$10,000 package or something
like that.
So I think ours was like a$3,000 package, if I remember
right, which was a decentinvestment, but still it was
reasonable investment but stillis reasonable.

(27:16):
And that really did change mythoughts about what you offer
and making it really clear Imade it an easier decision.
I think a great way to losebusiness is to make things vague
.
That's a great quote.
If you're too vague and it'snot clear again, just going back
to the plain old, simple whoyou serve, what do you do, how
do you do it?
If that is not clear, that'swhen you're going to lose sales

(27:40):
from your website because it'sgoing to be like well, this
person seemed cool, but Iactually don't know what they do
.
And if somebody can't look atyour website and then leave in a
few minutes and say this iswhat they do, that's a very,
very worthwhile thing to improveon.
So, yeah, as far as, like youknow, showcasing your services,

(28:01):
absolutely, whitney, share whatyou do.
Make it really clear If you canpackage things up in some sort
of way even better.

Whitney Bateson (28:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we were getting a sandwich
at a sandwich shopno-transcript.

Josh Hall (28:40):
When we go to a restaurant we don't want to,
we're not, I'm not the cook,Like I, I don't know, I want you
to.
You know, yeah, I might have alittle bit of variety or have
options, but yeah, at the end ofthe day you're totally right,
you need to be the chef and youknow they are your, your
restaurant, the, you know thediner, so totally.

Whitney Bateson (28:59):
Yeah, we were talking before we hit record
that I eat all across the world.
I eat my way through manycountries and so, yeah, those
are like the most clearestanalogies, Like, yeah, it's just
, if you're not doing that, yourcustomers are kind of like a
lot of people, um, maybe sellsessions and like even packages
of sessions or something likethat.

(29:20):
But I would ask people to goeven further and say, really,
what is the result?
You know, I mean, I was evenit's like people are buying
solutions.
They're not buying sessionsthey really want.
Because you bought the packagethat solved the problem that you
were looking for.
You want this many photos.
Maybe you didn't want a video,so it didn't include also

(29:43):
videography and all of that, andit solved that problem for you.
Specifically, you knew thatpackage was right for you and
you knew what result you weregoing to get at the end.
That package was right for youand you knew that.
You were like what result youwere going to get at the end.
And I think that's alsosometimes the challenge with
websites, where it's it's sayinglike we're going to do all
these things and whatever, butit's not really clear Like, what
are we working towards?

(30:04):
Like, are we actually going toget the result that we're
looking for Is it?
Can we really achieve whatwe're wanting like?
I was looking at one websiterecently about some weight loss
services that someone wasoffering and it was like three
sessions and I don't know thatanyone's going to get a ton of

(30:25):
results that they're reallyexcited about in three sessions
and that goes for so manydifferent health related things
like that's just not enough time, and so I would encourage
people and it can be scary likeputting higher price things
together but if it's going totake three months to really get
your customers what they want,then that's what you should sell
them.

Josh Hall (30:45):
Yeah, and that is tough with websites, because
sometimes there is a lot ofmarketing at play that help
websites.
Like we've talked about,there's sales, which is your
website, but then there'smarketing.
If you don't do much marketingto drive traffic to your website
, then you're not going to haveas many opportunities to sell.
One thing that I found, though,is that you can still, with a

(31:07):
few improvements on your website, help sales, and we call it
conversions, which is just onyour website.
Help sales, and we call itconversions, which is just
moving somebody from a potentialcustomer on your website to an
actual paying customer orsomebody who books a call.
There are a few things.
You can do that, and it can bevery measurable on a website, so
that's generally what I wouldaim for, as a first level of

(31:29):
results is like, let's say, 100people are looking at your
website in a week, and you know99 of them have left without
doing anything.
Well, what if a few tweaks?
What if having one call toaction button instead of five,
with different options to gointo?
What if it was just book a freecall, or book a consultation,
or sign up for a free 15 minutesession?

(31:51):
What if that was the main thing.
And then 10 people out of thosea hundred move forward with
that.
Suddenly we've increased thatconversion.
By what?
Would that be?
9%.
So that's like a measurable.
Is that right?

Whitney Bateson (32:05):
I should never why do I do math on the fly?
So it's a terrible.

Josh Hall (32:08):
I always get myself into this.
I don't know why.
You know.
I feel like when you're doingresults though, because it's
just like there's a thing, butthat's just a lot more, a lot
more.
That's a practical example ofhow like this was something
controlled on the website wedidn't have to do any new
marketing or ad spend or or anynetworking or anything.
This is just purely what is ison the website.
So when it comes to thoseresults, uh, no matter what

(32:31):
industry it is, I alwaysrecommend focusing on what you
can control currently, becausereally, would it be better to
get 10 more people to moveforward who are already on your
website, or invest $1,000 in aFacebook ad campaign?
I would start with on yourwebsite, because it's something
you control.
I would start with on yourwebsite because it's something

(32:53):
you control, and then, when youadd $1,000 to an ad campaign,
you know it's going to thewebsite's primed and ready to
attract more people.
Yeah, Convert more people.

Whitney Bateson (33:03):
And so simplifying CTAs is one thing
that you mentioned could be oneof those things that could
improve things.
Could be one of those thingsthat could improve things.
I would probably say looking atthe copy and like a stronger
headline, for example, on yourhomepage, and looking through it
.
What are some other things thatif people want to kind of do

(33:23):
some experimentation right nowor look at their site, that
could maybe make those likereally huge shifts without
actually having to like change awhole bunch?

Josh Hall (33:32):
Who is behind the brand, like who is behind the
business.
I can't stress this enough,especially today, in 2025,
especially if you're a serviceprovider of any kind.
I know you're helping out a lotof folks in the wellness world,
so I mean pretty much every oneof your clients is a service
provider, just like right.

(33:53):
So yeah, even more so, I'mshocked at how many web
designers you know who I coach.
I look at their websites andI'm like I have no idea who's
behind this.
I don't know I had.
There's nothing about thefounder, the creative director.
I don't know how big the teamis.
Is it one person who's livingin their mom's basement, or is
it an agency downtown with like30 people?

(34:16):
I have no idea.
That is more crucial than ever.
People really do want to knowwho they're going to work with.
So, oh my goodness, get you onyour website.

Whitney Bateson (34:27):
I hit a nerve.
I love it.
The world needs to know.

Josh Hall (34:32):
The world needs to get themselves, and I think a
lot of people used to feel vainabout that, but it's just so
important now more than ever.
And the cool thing is, youdon't need to be like an
influencer, it's just especiallylike, for example, a handyman.
If I have an issue with ourhouse and I'm going to try to
hire a handyman, I want to knowwho the heck is literally going

(34:55):
to be walking through the doorand who are going to be around
my children Like.
That's really, really important.
If you go to a yoga studio, I'mgoing to want to know the
instructor like a little bitabout.
Who are they?
What's their background, evenif it's just high level, like
like you looked at with my site,just a me in a minute high
level, like you looked at withmy site, just a me in a minute.
What's the high level?
Brief, just highlights of astory that is so, so important,

(35:16):
especially when it comes tohiring something out where
you're going to trust them to dosomething for you.
In the case of building awebsite or creating a fitness
plan or nutrition plan, people,I think, more so now than ever,
are a little more interested injust liking who they're going to
work with and feeling trust andcomfort with them.
So, yes, long, excitable way tosay get you on your website and

(35:42):
don't hide.
Don't hide behind your brand,hide behind the website.
There's two specific things Iwould do have an about page, for
sure, or a story type page, andthen put just a section on your
homepage that I like to call afounder's note, or it might be
like the CEO note, whatever youwant to call it, but it's that.
That way, if somebody scans thewebsite and they don't go

(36:03):
forward into other pages, theyat least see okay, whitney's
behind this, or you know.
Again, go back to Lisa.
Whoever Lisa is, lisa is theinstructor, lisa is the
dietitian, whatever it is, andit's just a quick like hey, I'm
Lisa, I did this for years.
This is this is why I'mpassionate about this.
Now, learn more about my story,click here.
Or meet your dietitian.
I love to tell people have formy folks.

(36:26):
Meet your web designer, causeit just gives a little like yeah
, this is going to be the personpotentially, you know,
designing my site.

Whitney Bateson (36:36):
It's almost like a little sales trick before
you even move forward.
Right, right, yeah, I love it.
Like, yeah, me, yeah, meet yourdietitian.
Yeah, I, I, it's.
It's funny because I was lookingat my Google analytics and I
saw how many people wereclicking on our about page,
which I had neglected for years,and so I mentioned to you we're
we're redesigning our site and,uh, the about page is the first

(36:58):
page where you're like, allright, we just got to do it, and
luckily I have a team with menow, so like I can kind of take
some of the onus and be like allright, just like, put together
a structure, we'll put togethersome copy, and you know, but,
yeah, it's important and youknow I think you're maybe
alluding to part of now morethan ever is that there's also

(37:20):
just like a lot of AI generatedcrap out there and people want
to connect with real people, andthere's websites that are, you
know, sometimes just like puttogether by who knows what, and
or there's websites that are,you know, sometimes just like
put together by who knows what,and or there's advice out there
that is coming from who knowswhere, and especially when it
comes to, like, our mentalhealth, our physical health, you

(37:44):
know, people trying to plan fora family or they're caring for
the kid, their the health oftheir kids, like they want to
actually work with a real personwho they can trust the health
of their kids like they want toactually work with a real person
who they can trust, and that Imean I.
There's also stories of justlike people getting burned by
healthcare providers, you know,not being heard and listened to,
and all of that, and so I Icompletely agree.

(38:04):
I mean, the trust factor isjust so huge and important,
especially now especially now, Ithink, the age of big corporate
structures, agencies.

Josh Hall (38:25):
I think they are all in a very, very hard place
because so many people have beenburned by agency-style service
providers.
The perfect example is how manyof my clients told me I really
don't want to work with a bigagency.
We had big problems with adigital marketing agency, and
that's not uncommon, becausethey have big churn, they have
different departments, they'reworking on keeping people in
their own building and thenyou're often treated like a

(38:47):
number.
I will give one little pro tipthat has worked on my site that
I will work in any industry andthat is to highlight where
you're at in the market or a bitof a Almost like a why me, like
what's different about me, andI always found myself Because I
had a very small team.

(39:07):
I just had a few contractorsthat work with me and I created
a graphic because I found myselftelling potential clients all
the time I'm not a stressed out,overwhelmed solo freelancer,
but I'm not an agency and I'vemade it very clear that I'm not
a big agency.
You will work with me and Ihave a few team members that
you'll hear from, depending onthe project and that little
graphic that I put on myhomepage.

(39:29):
So many web designer pros havedone that to great success,
which just lights me up, becausepeople love that.
They're like yes, I wantsomebody in the middle.
I don't want the freelancer whoI'm never going to hear from
because they can't keep up withtheir email, but I don't want to
be a number on a spreadsheetfor an agency.
I want the sweet spot.
So if you can really articulateyour sweet spot in there as
well, that's a that's a big, bigpiece.

(39:51):
So sorry, I think I took us ona tangent, but yeah, absolutely
Like really getting clear on whois behind it and, yeah, what
separates you where you're at inthe market.
I think it'll.
I know it's a huge boost inconversions and people moving
forward.

Whitney Bateson (40:06):
Yeah, yeah, these people are looking for
that personalized care, and alot of um listeners in in my
audience they're they'reoffering the one-to-one services
.
Even if you're offeringone-to-many, even if you have
someone who's co-coaching withyou in a group program or you
have another practitioner, beingupfront and clear about it,
there's nothing wrong with Ithink I used to also Back in the

(40:30):
day I thought people were justhiring me because I designed the
websites and I was like, oh, Ican't.
You know, I don't want to startsaying that like I have a
designer and I have a developer,like they wanted me and it's
like no, they just want awebsite, they want a great
website.
They're coming to me becausethey trust me and that trust

(40:50):
extends to that.
I'm bringing in the people onmy team that are going to do a
great job as well.
And so if you have a virtualassistant who is going to be
helping with billing orday-to-day administration with
your clients, or you are goingto have a second practitioner
that maybe is going to handlesome of the appointments, or
people can book with you or bookwith that practitioner, put

(41:13):
that up on the site and that canactually be a really great
differentiator.
Some people may love that thatit's like, oh, there's
additional support, like youwere saying, and just saying,
yeah, this is the team, and Ithink that's great.

Josh Hall (41:26):
Absolutely.
And to take that one stepfurther, I would be really
upfront with their, their rolein the business, like because I
didn't have anybody.
Well, I had a couple, basicallyfull-time.
I had one lead designer who wasfull-time, and then my wife
helped out with the business fora while before we had kids and
my team page was literally usthree.
And then I had collaboratorsand these were folks who had

(41:48):
areas of specialty and I evenput on there.
They assist with projects whenneeded or when called upon, and
clients love that.
And I found the same exactthings with my analytics here.
Whitney, which was my top pageson my website were my portfolio
and my about page abouteverything else.

(42:09):
People want to know, they wantto see what you do and they want
to see who they're going towork with.
That's so important and again,use your homepage to lead to
those for more detail.
But huge, huge, huge, huge,because it's key, it's crucial.
And again, like I said, thedays of AI are here and there's
just so much stuff.

(42:30):
I think people more than everwant guidance and they want
clarity and they want some likepeace.
They want to know, like, okay,I'm in good hands, I'm in.
You know Josh and his team.
They've got me.
They're going to make, we'regoing to make this simple for
you, don't you?
You worry about your business.
We're going to worry about this.
That's key, and I know, I knowI've seen your sites.

(42:51):
I know it's what you're helpingyour clients out with too.
It's to position them as theguide and story story brand
world, which is the story brandbook that teaches.
You're the guide you want yourclient to be the hero and man.
If there's ever a time for that, it's now.

Whitney Bateson (43:08):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, and I think that thereare some some dietitians,
nutritionists and coaches outthere that are feeling the
crunch with AI, because sure,there are people that can go and
get a meal plan off of ChachiPT and think that that is enough
, and why should I be hiring youand paying for you?
And so there is that feeling oflike, okay, how do I compete

(43:31):
with that?
But I think it goes back tohumanizing and showing the value
and showing that connection,and there's so much more that
people need and that people getfrom working with an actual
practitioner.
So I don't think that we shouldfeel that AI is coming to take
our jobs as service providers.
I think it just maybe ischanging how we're showing up

(43:55):
for people.

Josh Hall (43:56):
What you said right there is key, whitney.
There's so much more thatpeople need with a real
practitioner and I think that'swhat would be the things to
drill into.
That's what you get on thehomepage, that's what you're
going to find here that you'renot going to find elsewhere,
what you're going to find herethat you're not going to find
elsewhere.
And it's interesting.
I think all coaches in everyindustry have had that fear of

(44:18):
like, yeah, you can go toChatGPT and you can get a diet
plan or you can get a structureof a web design business.
In my case, and I thought aboutthat, I'm like I mean, I could
ask you this, I guess.
But we had our recent in-personevent for Web Designer Pro a
couple months ago and it reallygave me a good window into why
they have joined and why theystuck around.
And one member told me of allthe people she's followed in the

(44:43):
web design space, I'm the onlyone that she feels like truly
cares and it kind of goes backto that thing I said earlier of
just a genuine care.
That is something that issensed and that is you can't
fake that People can tell whenyou're just a hustler trying to
build something to sell it orjust trying to build something
quick and they don't know whatkind of support they're going to

(45:05):
get.
So I think, even more so if youcan somehow get that across,
whether it's through copy andmessaging, whether it's through
a person like a video on yourwebsite overviewing your why and
talking about why you do whatyou do that goes a long way.
Podcast interviews or podcastshow, anything like that
Anything you can do to get youon your website, like the

(45:25):
personal side of things.
I think now is the time forsure.
Yeah, let me ask you that realquick.
Why did you join?
What was it about?
Because you could have gone in.
You could have gone to agencymavericks, which is uh kind of a
competitor of mine.
Shannon mattern's a good friendof mine.
You could have gone into her,uh, and she's great too.
But like what was theresomething?
Yeah, what was it about mystuff that helped you?

(45:47):
What did I do right in theconversion process?

Whitney Bateson (45:52):
It's a great question.
Well, yeah, I also felt thatyou genuinely cared.
I had gotten a lot of valuefrom your podcast in the past,
like the depth of informationand like just the quality of
information I had gotten fromyou in the past and how much you
already put into your podcastthat I wanted to learn more from

(46:13):
you.
I just was like there's morethings I want to figure out and
I want to be in a place wherethere are other people learning
and I can get Josh's input and Ican learn from you and make
sure that I'm doing all the bestthings that I possibly can with
your courses and all of that.
I just felt like, okay, I'vegotten so much good stuff up to

(46:37):
this wall and if I feel likethere's so much additional
amazing stuff past this wall andI trust that there is because I
trusted you and that's why Iwas, yeah, ready to move forward
.

Josh Hall (46:51):
That's great.
I appreciate hearing that,whitney, and it reminds me of
the importance of implementationand transformation and, I think
, for your clients.
I imagine you probably getquestions about like if I post
all my content online ormarketing, who's going to pay me
for anything?
Because it's all there.
And as a content creator, whatI've learned is that most

(47:14):
content you're doing on blogs orsocial media podcasts, videos
are going to be snacks of somesort.
They're going to be a littlebite-sized things, but after a
while you realize you've got anoverwhelming amount of stuff and
not everyone's going to be ableto like.
My podcast is almost 400episodes now no one's going to
like.
Listen to 400 episodes and havea very clear like.

(47:34):
Okay, here's exactly what I'mgoing to do Right now.

Whitney Bateson (47:36):
I know what to do.

Josh Hall (47:37):
My goal is to get them into my world to where
here's a clearer plan and forsomebody like yourself who's
established, your path isdifferent than somebody who's in
the first couple of years oftheir business.
So you need more like intense,like coaching style approach to
your stuff.
And so for wellness providers,service providers, you can have

(47:58):
that same approach to wherethere's probably going to be a
bit of a different path again,depending on the package that
you want to create for people.
So that's just for anyone whohas that question of like who's
going to pay me if I just putall my content online?
They're paying you fortransformation and integration
of all that information.
There's information.
Then there's transformation.

(48:18):
Information is free if you wantit to be Transformation.
That's when they pay you.

Whitney Bateson (48:23):
That's so good.
That's such a great way tothink about it Because, yeah,
I've definitely heard thatquestion come up before and it
can be tough and it can feellike we're giving away a lot and
you know it comes with time.
I think, like marketing is amuscle, you have to keep working
and all of us coming out ofcollege do not have strong

(48:45):
marketing muscles.
Whatever degree we got,whatever job we had, did not
prepare us to be a marketer andknow you know what.
What should I be talking about?
How much should I be doing?
But honestly, the more you putout, it gives people more
chances to learn from you andtrust you and and understand.

(49:05):
Like your approach I mean,that's another thing too is just
, you know I, I am not all aboutlike grinding it out and
hustling and like just goingreal hard.
Like I, you know I want my lifeto be enjoyable and all of that
, and so I like your approach.
You, you know you spend timewith your family.
Like you, you seem very calmand easygoing and like that's

(49:27):
what I want.
So I think it's it's just, it'snot just about the information
too, it's when you have theselike personal ways for people to
get to know you.
So whether it's a podcast orwhether you know you're putting
out reels or Tik TOKs or anyshort form kind of video content
, um anything.
People are just getting to know, like who you are and how you
think, and and that also goes along way- that's a good point.

Josh Hall (49:51):
I actually love that we're talking about this,
because now, with AI, especiallyyou, you just cannot safeguard
your information anymore.
Information, whether we like toadmit it or not, has devalued.
So what is the value now is theimplementation, the
personalization, thetransformation that you get with
that information.

(50:12):
So did I say that?
Right, that just tied a knot inmy brain saying all that, but
yeah, uh, clip it.
So that and I say that because,like anybody is, and I've had
so many conversations withpeople who are like you, just
like you just give everythingaway how are people paying you?
But people don't want to pay fora buffet of everything.

(50:33):
They want to pay for what theyneed.
And, especially now, mostpeople want a faster result.
So, like I don't want to investin, you know, like a dictionary
size nutrition book.
I just want to know, like,here's where I'm at, here are my
goals, what's the fastest paththat will get me here?
That's what I would pay for,that's what people are paying

(50:58):
for in any sort of wellness.
I know for sure, and you knowthat's what I.
That's the model I've tried toapproach and I'm continuing to
refine in web designer pro.
My community is like meet peoplewhere they are and give them a
path to follow, and I think ofevery service provider.
Yeah, I just think right now isthe time to like, not fear your
information.
Put everything out for free ifyou want as far as information,

(51:20):
but then have the next step.
One thing to remember, too, isif you have, let's say, 300
videos on your YouTube channeland that's basically all your
stuff, but somebody is not goingto watch 300 videos.
But if they had a place wherethere was a path for those 300
videos, that would help them geta result, along with some other
, whatever it is coaching orpersonalization or an action

(51:42):
plan, that's what they pay for.
So, yeah, information is purelythe means to get to the result.
Yeah, that is that's probablythe biggest shift that I've seen
with like content and marketingis not even that long ago.
Five, six years ago,information was like oh, no one,
I don't want to.
No one's going to see my webdesign contract until you pay me

(52:04):
, or no one's going to see myprocess.

Whitney Bateson (52:06):
Now I'm like here's everything and then this
is how we do it.
You want to implement it?

Josh Hall (52:10):
You want community behind you.
You want some coaching behindyou.

Whitney Bateson (52:18):
You want to do it faster.
Come on in that goal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so I think that's justgreat for us to think about with
with what we're putting on ourwebsites and the kind of
messaging that we're puttingaround.
You know our process or whatour package is offering and all
of that, and it's it's like, yes, it's fine to include and talk
about.
Okay, maybe they're going toget a meal plan or they're going

(52:38):
to get a foods list forfertility or something like that
, but, as we know, the value ofthose things is a little less
important these days than maybeit used to be, because of just
the availability of that kind ofstuff.
So, what are the other thingsthat are going to help that you
know AI can't really help themwith, or you know that they're

(53:00):
going to get stuck on.
What are those challenges thatyou've seen time and time again
that your clients are arestruggling with that they
actually come to you, come to acoaching call and talk about
that.
That's the kind of stuff thatyou need to describe on your
site.
That is actually part of whatyou do, because then they're
going.
Some people may not evenrealize that.
Oh, you know, going back to,like I can't do that for you.

(53:23):
People may not realize thatwhat they're missing, you know,
by by just going to AI.
So it's like these are all thethings that are going to trip
you up and this is how we'regoing to overcome them.

Josh Hall (53:39):
And I feel like in the wellness world.
Am I right in saying that, likeeverybody, has a story in the
wellness?

Whitney Bateson (53:41):
world.
Everyone probably has some sortof before and after.

Josh Hall (53:43):
Yeah, probably everyone has some sort of before
and after transformation andthat immediately puts you in a
position, even if your brandspanking new into it, of maybe
not being an expert but being aguide in some way, and that's
the kind of thing that will justadditionally going back to like
about page, like a story,giving even more a boost of

(54:03):
conversion and trust in you,because it's like, even if it's
a minor increase or, you know,or decrease in weight gain, you
know, whatever it is, it is,even if it's a minor
transformation, that still is abig deal that can be used.
I hate to say it like this, butthat's your marketing.
Your story is your marketing.
Yeah, and yeah, I think, ifpeople I do wonder if many

(54:25):
people are unintentionally orintentionally hiding that story
and my gosh, is that importantto get out there?
Because it gives a level oftrust that someone's like okay,
this person has done this.
Because there are so manyoptions, I don't think.
I think it's more important nowthan ever to be really personal
and open about your own story.

(54:46):
Getting that out there and thatreal.
That will help, especially inthe age of ai, because it's
personal you know and somebodycan see, if you can see yourself
in this person and be like, ohyeah, I want that.
You know, even if it's a minor,a minor thing, that can be a
huge converter.

Whitney Bateson (55:02):
Yep.
So I think the moral of thestory here is, when it comes to
getting more clients to yourwebsite and fixing a website
that just isn't isn't gettingany, any leads, any calls, and
all of that isn't getting anyleads, any calls, and all of
that.
It's not some secret that isguarded in terms of what makes a

(55:23):
website work.
It's the things that we coveredtoday.
It's minor shifts, which Iguess if your site is completely
all weird, then maybe they'reslightly bigger shifts, but
there are things that are notrocket science in terms of what
needs to be on your site and howyou need to be talking to
people.
That is what is going to makepeople want to click the link to

(55:46):
book a discovery call with you.
That's what changes things.

Josh Hall (55:50):
Yeah, maybe it's worthwhile doing like a priority
list here, because we probablygave everyone like 17 things
they could do.
But I think the most importantthing and again a lot of this is
what you help people with.
You know out of the box.
So probably preaching to thechoir here, but one call to
action is is still king.
I I think when I like you, youcan't have secondary like you

(56:10):
could have book a call, find outmore, or whatever.
But you know really like ifwhat do you want somebody to do
on your website?
If you want them to book a call, find out more or whatever, but
really what do you wantsomebody to do on your website?
If you want them to book a call, it should be book a call.
If you want them to pay you, itshould be sign up now.
Clear as day, clear as that.
So that's the first thing tostart with.
Probably the next big priorityitem upon any of that stuff is

(56:30):
the clear packages.
Even before putting your storyon there, I'd probably have
really clear offers.
It really is called action.
And then the offer you've gotto clarify the offer, package it
up, like we talked about, evenif you just experiment with
ranges or just types of packagesthat will help.
That will definitely help untilyou reel it in and then you're
like all right, I have threepeople kill it in this package.

(56:52):
These people kill it in thispackage.
There you go, you know, a yearfrom now, you have extra clear
packages, but do that, I'd say.
Number three is probablypersonalization Get you on your
website, if it's.
If you're not there now or ifyou're not already clear, don't

(57:13):
be afraid of your story.
And then have that little youknow fat in the wellness
industry.
It's probably not founders,note.
It's probably more of like ameet your guide, you know, meet
your instructor, whatever thatis, and just have a little bit
about who they're going to workwith.
And don't be afraid of having ateam page, like you said,
absolutely.
And then I would probably say,go further into the copy and the
messaging.
And of course you know allthese things are very important.

(57:34):
But if I were to set a prioritylist, that's probably how I
would go about it, and a lot ofthese things can be done pretty
quickly, especially with yoursites.
You do it in one day.
So a lot of those things youjust knock them out.
But that's probably the focus Iwould do on.
There is the copy and then thecopy is going to get into things
like results and getting somesocial proof from from clients

(57:57):
and really putting that in thereCause results.
Some people aren't alwaysinitially attracted to like
monetary results or measuredresults as much as feeling.
And, like you said, I don'tthink you join my community
thinking I want to hit a certainrevenue range and Josh is going
to help me get there.
You joined because you justwanted to make sure you continue
to have a feeling of of yourbusiness, of freedom and

(58:21):
stability, and that's great.
Like some people do want tojust make a certain amount, some
people just want to feel acertain way, um, and you can
kind of you know all thesethings together can help people
with that yeah, I think it'sgood to speak on both of those.

Whitney Bateson (58:36):
Like you know, if you have something that's
qualitative or quantitative,like that's great.
But yeah, focusing on I felt.
So I felt, like you know, moreheard and seen than I've ever
felt with any other practitionerbefore.
You know, like just even thosekinds of things can mean so much
to someone who's looking atyour site and they're sitting in

(58:58):
that same boat right now andthat's what they're looking for.
You know what.

Josh Hall (59:03):
I would do too is for wellness providers, like send
out a survey, do a bit of aaudit with past clients, and
most most clients will be happyto do that for you.
And because I did this in prolast year and it was so, I got
so much copy that I didn't haveto write or think about because
I just asked people what do theylike about in pro?
How has pro helped you ondifferent levels.

(59:24):
Some it was revenue, some itwas feeling.
The overarching thing that Ilearned that pro helps with my
community is confidence, and Ireally started leaning into that
more.
And when I'm talking about webdesigner pro and when I'm having
on the, the landing page, myhome page, so I would encourage

(59:45):
everyone to potentially, yeah,you know, when it comes to copy
and messaging, if you're stuckand you're like, what should I
write?
Well, number one, you, you know, you guide them, I know on that
.
But, and if you really want toget into the granular stuff,
yeah, do a survey, do it on andjust say like, hey, would you,
you know, make it short, wouldyou guys be willing to share how
my services have helped you?
Um, either you know literallyphysically, or maybe it's more

(01:00:06):
emotionally or mentally.

Whitney Bateson (01:00:08):
And then there's your copy and that's
what you put, that that's whathelps separate you from
everybody else yeah, I love thatso much and I think that's like
just do it, Don't overthink itand be like, oh, you know it's.
I'm asking so much from people.
It's like, no people, ifthey're happy, they're happy to
to share that with you and helpyou out, and I think that that's

(01:00:29):
just like such a great tip thateveryone should, should, do.

Josh Hall (01:00:32):
And guess what?
You just got like 20 weeks ofmarketing material.
When you get 20 people who tellyou what they've done, you just
landed 20 testimonialsaccidentally as well.

Whitney Bateson (01:00:41):
So, yep, stories you can share and and
all of that.
So I love it.
Yeah, Well, Josh, this has justbeen such a great conversation.
We covered so much ground likeway beyond even websites.

Josh Hall (01:00:55):
This is really good I loved.
I love this too because it'syou know, I just I'm such, I'm
so ingrained in the web designworld.
It's it's good for me to stepout into the broader
service-based business, since Idon't build websites, you know,
anymore.
I full-time coach web designers.
So, yeah, I really enjoyed this.
This was a good.
This uh got me, got me thinkingabout some stuff that I want to
implement.
So I really appreciate it.

(01:01:17):
Great questions and yeah, Ireally hope this helps a lot of
your folks Because, listen, ifyou can learn from web designers
, who better to learn from as aservice provider than folks who
are in the know?
So I don't want to toot our ownhorns, but I'm going to toot
our own horns and say listen tous, because we're in the thick
of it.
Every day we're seeing thisstuff play out in real time.

Whitney Bateson (01:01:36):
Yeah, right, that's true.
We're kind of at that top level.
We're seeing what's working,what people are talking about,
and, yeah, that's what peopleshould implement.
Heck, yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you so much, josh.
We'll put your website in theshow notes so people can visit
and check you out, and eventhough we don't have web

(01:01:57):
designers necessarily listening,you do cover some good business
topics on your podcast.
So I would recommend people, ifthey do want, to just skim
through your library of episodeslike you just do such a
wonderful job and if there's anepisode or two that like peaks
their interest, just as abusiness owner and entrepreneur,
I think they should totallylisten.

Josh Hall (01:02:16):
Oh, I appreciate that .
Yeah, definitely, you know.
For fellow podcast listeners,my show is the Web Design
Business Podcast, but you'reright, about 50% of it is just
marketing and onlineentrepreneurship.
Actually, by the time this goeslive I don't know if it'll be
live yet, but we've had somereally good conversations
recently about marketing,specifically on like LinkedIn
and Instagram.

Whitney Bateson (01:02:37):
Oh yeah, I saw one of those come out.

Josh Hall (01:02:38):
I was really.

Whitney Bateson (01:02:39):
I'm like I got to listen to that one.
Yeah, so those would be goodones.

Josh Hall (01:02:41):
Just yeah, just do a quick scan and see, uh, you know
what helps you where you're at.
But yeah, uh, and then what I'dsay is just go to
webdesignersprocom If you justwant to see some of these things
you know in the real world.
Ironically, that is a very, notbrief page, but my homepage on
Women's Art Pro is a long page,but it is.

(01:03:01):
It is converting, so it'sworking, but I do plan to make
it a little more brief heremoving forward.
So, just like all web designers, I already hate my website
after it's live.
You know you love it and twomonths later you're like how am
I getting any clients?

Whitney Bateson (01:03:17):
This is so bad.
It's so bad.
We're just, we are our ownworst critics.
You know, like once we seesomething we can't unsee it, and
you know.
But yeah, so at least I mean Iguess I feel like that is solace
, maybe for everyone listeningto like web designers hate their
own websites.

Josh Hall (01:03:33):
Yes, yeah, you're not alone, cause I know, I know
clients, you know you go livewith the site.
You're all excited and threemonths later like maybe we
should change it.
But, especially when it works,don't change it, like let it go
I remind myself.
I'm like you know what pro isgrowing fine, it's working, so I
don't need to focus on otherthings.

Whitney Bateson (01:03:51):
Yeah, you know, I think that's the other thing
too, just like there's so manythings that we can be focusing
on.
So it's like is this becauseyou want to do it or because you
need to do it?
Like, if it's just you havingsome feelings, you need to just
work on those, journal about itand then move on and go.
You know, go build your emaillist, go pitch to podcasts, like
do other things that are goingto be, you know, more productive

(01:04:14):
than fiddling with things.

Josh Hall (01:04:16):
Yes, oh, hear, hear.

Whitney Bateson (01:04:20):
All right, well , I will let you go.
Thank you so much, josh, forcoming on the podcast and for
sharing all of this with us.

Josh Hall (01:04:25):
Thanks for having me.
This was a blast.
Thanks, Whitney.
All right, so I hope youenjoyed that one.
Again, big thanks to Whitneyfor allowing me to repurpose our
interview for the Web DesignBusiness Podcast.
Here Again, you can check herpodcast out.
It's called the Growth Showwith Whitney Bateson.
You can go to WhitneyBatesoncomfor all of her resources and

(01:04:47):
links and the show notes forthis particular episode and all
the links and resources we'vetalked about will be over at
joshhallco, slash 396.
So zip over there.
You can also leave us a comment.
I read every single comment thatcomes in for the podcast, so
leave us a comment if you wouldlike to share any of your
thoughts.
Concerns questions orexcitement preferably excitement

(01:05:07):
.
So, my friend, I hope youenjoyed this one.
Cheers to helping you and yourclients' websites convert better
in 2025 and beyond.
I hope to see you in WebDesigner Pro.
The last couple episodes havefeatured members from the
community, so if you guys are onthe fence, now is an amazing
time to join us, because we gota lot of awesome things cooking
and it would be great to haveyou a part of this incredible

(01:05:29):
community.
Rising tide the rising tidelifts all boats, as it was once
said, probably by AbrahamLincoln, so I hope to see you in
there in our community webdesigner.
Pro Cheers friend and staysubscribed because we've got
some good podcast episodes ahead.