404 - Web Designer Pro turns 5 (Q&A with Josh & Members) - Web Design Business with Josh Hall

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamara Salchert (00:00):
Josh, thank you so much for creating Pro.
I like along with other peoplelistening to the podcast.
Like I remember telling youthis forever ago when I jumped
on, but like I was so like downin the like dumps because of
when I started my business.
I'm like, there's no other webdesigners that understand, like,
you know, because you just,it's like it can be such a you

(00:21):
know very specific thing and tohave other people speak into it.
And then like I rememberlistening to your podcast and
like, oh my gosh, this is likethe best.
And it just spoke everythingthat I was struggling with with
contracts and grants and justlike all the things that you
touched on.
It was like a godsend.
So thank you again for likestarting the community.
It's it's been a blessing.

Marc Hyde (00:40):
I'll say, man, it's it's wild how it went from just
an online community that gave methe guts to go do something
cool.
But like these are my friendsnow.
Like, I mean, let's be honest.
Like, Ben, um, we we gotta DM alittle bit more, but like, you
know, I find myself DMing withMichelle and with Ben and like
questions for Lisa, and likeit's just one of these things
where it's like, like, it theseare my people.
And like, even when Beth knewthat pro con was coming up, like

(01:03):
it's already in the calendar.
Like, it's just it's happeningbecause you know, these are my
people, these are this is whereI love to be.
And, you know, it's a lonelyworld and we were made for
community, and you just happento facilitate that, bro.
So thank you.

Michelle Bourbonniere (01:15):
Um, I don't think that you guys
understand that five years agowhen you started Web Designer
Pro, I had barely started mybusiness, right?
Like I had been working forfriends at that point, um, and
just a couple people locally.
And so, like, really truly, WebDesigner Pro really kicked off
my whole business.
I mean, I got into SEO, Istarted doing all that stuff,
and like, same with Mark.

(01:35):
Like, these people are myfriends now, and like I'm just a
solo printer, and I don't everintend to be more than a solo
printer.
And so this is just so huge forme because there are people
that want to hear me talk aboutSEO and like that is a rare
thing.
And so it's lovely to be here.
And I just to say, like, thishas really made my business in
the last five years, and yeah,just can't wait for the next
five.

Josh Hall (01:55):
Who you just heard from there are a few members of
my community, Web Designer Pro.
And in this special editionpodcast episode, I'm gonna share
with you the recent group callwe had celebrating five years of
Web Designer Pro.
So, what I did is instead ofour typical uh weekly coaching
call for all coaching tiermembers of Pro, I actually

(02:15):
opened this up to do a livegroup call/slash QA session to
talk all about Web Designer Pro,what I've learned and building
it as a community builder, butalso what members collectively
have learned and how we'velearned from each other to help
grow each other's web designbusinesses.
A lot of the questions dorevolve around what I've learned
in being a community builder,but a lot of them also derail a

(02:36):
little bit, get into the podcasthere.
We get into some pricing, weget into some services, and
other things are gonna help youin your business as well.
So big thanks to everyone whojoined this call live.
Again, these are coaching tiermembers of Web Designer Pro, and
they've graciously allowed meto repurpose this for you.
And it goes without saying, ifyou've been on the fence, this
is a glimpse into theawesomeness of Web Designer Pro

(02:59):
and the incredible people thatare waiting to be your friend as
well and to help you grow yourweb design business.
So I'd encourage you to jump onin.
There's more details below tojump into Web Designer Pro.
I hope to see you there.
You can always start at thecommunity tier, and then when
you're ready, you can jump upand join these folks on the
coaching tier when you're readyto have direct access to me for
DM24-7 coaching and our weeklycoaching calls.

(03:22):
And without further ado, hereis our little celebration group
call QA session about WebDesigner Pro turning five.
We'll start out with Brian, whowanted to know how did Lisa
become a first member?
So, for those who don't know,if you're a newer member, this
actually started originally asthe Web Design Club.

(03:43):
So it was not Web Designer Proin its initial launch.
It was called the Web DesignClub.
And it was just mainly for thestudents who had been through my
one-off courses prior to that,which was Lisa, April, Alexis,
and a few others here.
Um, so when I launched the webdesign club, we did I basically
opened it up to just students atfirst.

(04:04):
And it was October of 22 when Isaid, hey, if you're
interested, um, you know, I'mgonna launch this membership.
It's gonna be a chance for usto do coaching and and community
and build a community.
And yeah, Lisa, Alexis, April,Sandra, Michelle, um, Christian,
a lot of you guys here havehave been we're in that first

(04:25):
wave.
So that's how Lisa was was oneof the first.
Yep.
Austin would like to know whatinspired you to create a
community.
So um a lot of it was withdoing courses.
For anyone who does courses, Ithink what you'll find is it's
awesome.

(04:46):
But unless you're gettingtestimonials proactively, you
really don't see the results ofpeople going through your
courses.
Like when you're a webdesigner, you see results of
your clients because you'rere-engaging with them and
hopefully they're on yourmaintenance plan and your care
plan or your growth plans, andyou're probably getting like
real-time feedback.
But when you have a digitalproduct, you really don't know

(05:09):
what result is happening unlessyou're, you know, really
proactively asking them aboutit.
So that was a big part of itwas, and I'm a community builder
at heart.
I have been since I was inschool.
Like I can remember buildingsome semblance of community even
in school.
So I knew I wanted to bringthat into this world and to see

(05:30):
results, to get to know mystudents better and to help them
more on a deeper level.
Um, and recurring revenue.
So it was two birds, uh, twobirds and one stone, recurring
revenue.
And yeah, just community.
I wanted to, I didn't want tojust make something and hope
it's going well for people.
I really wanted that real-timefeedback and wanted to build a
community.
And I had no and I reallydidn't know what it was going to

(05:53):
become.
Uh, but here we are five yearslater, and I feel like in a lot
of ways, we're just gettingstarted, which is super
exciting.
So, yeah, lots, lots to theoriginal um impetus of it, but
for sure, Austin, that was thatwas a big part.
And if you guys have anyfollow-up questions, let me know
because I can I can bring youup here too if you want to ask a
question live.
Awesome.

(06:15):
Let's go to Michelle who wantsto know.
Oh, here we go.
Let me spotlight Michelle's.
What's the hardest part ofrunning Web Designer Pro?
Ooh.
I think I'll be honest, thehardest part is when someone
leaves.
That is the hardest part,especially when it's somebody

(06:36):
who is like, oh, like there havebeen some members who I'm like,
oh, I'm so bummed.
I know it's a membership.
Anytime you have asubscription, you guys know,
like, if you have a subscriptionservice, you're going to have
churn.
People are going to leave.
And with a membership, I had tolearn very early on to not take
it personally because WebDesigner Pro is my baby.

(06:58):
And I'm sure you guys see ittoo.
Like when somebody leaves, it'slike, oh man, they're not in
pro anymore.
What a bummer.
It does it because pro is sopersonal, it feels personal when
people leave, just like itfeels personal when they join,
and I'm fired up.
So that was the hardest part islike making sure I don't take
it uh personally.
Michelle, do you want to addany?

(07:18):
Do you have a follow-up to thatat all?

Um No, I was just asking you a hard
question.

Josh Hall (07:24):
No, it's but it's true.

Like I agree that like when you like, I
think this community has such acloseness to them that when you
go to tag somebody and they'renot there anymore, you're like,
oh no, where did you go?
Um, and so yeah, it is it issort of sad.
Um, but I think that that'salso, I think, because I mean
you have to pay to be here.
Um, and I think that that'swhat brings the level of the
community up, right?
Like Facebook, no one everleaves, but also the quality is

(07:48):
no good.
And we're here, like peoplesometimes do have to leave.
That's fine.
Like that's life.
And some of them come back, andthen it's just a big party.

Josh Hall (07:55):
That's the biggie, is when they come back, which is
really exciting.
Because they're, and Iunderstand, like sometimes life
happens.
You got you got to step out ofwhether it's down revenue or
whether you're just in a seasonwhere you're just not gonna be
able to be active for a while.
Like, I totally understandthat.
We just had Carol who rejoinedafter a small stint out.
Like, that's what's even moreexciting is when someone
rejoins.
And that's a testament to ourcommunity when somebody leaves

(08:17):
and says, Ah, I miss it so much.
Because I do get those DMs frompeople who say, like, I miss
pro, I can't wait to come back.
So it's a testament of trustfor keeping it going.
Let's do this guy.
I like that.
I like um when I answer aquestion, I think I'll bring you
up too.
That way we can riff on it fora few minutes if that works for
you guys.
Um, that way we can make this alittle interactive.
That way it's not just a QA.

(08:38):
Let's go to Mark real quick.
Uh, Mark, so if you want tofollow up with me on this,
what's your daily, weekly rhythmlook like since you're more as
a coach and content creator andnot a website designer?
Yeah, that's a good one, Mark.
Let me ask you, Mark, what doyou think it looks like?
What do you what do you uhimagine a week looks like?

(09:00):
Well, granted, you know we'rein a season right now with
Bria's surgery recovery, uh,daily PT right now, but what do
you think it looks like?
What do you imagine a coach'sschedule looks like?

Marc Hyde (09:11):
Mondays are my ties at the beach.
Tuesdays are, well, I don'tknow, I don't know what Tuesday
would be.
Probably happy hour, probablyhappy hour.
Then Wednesdays are probablyjust your Jack and Coke because
you gotta have whiskey.
No, I'm kidding.
Um, but you know, so a lot ofit is more, I know for you it's,
you know, working on brandpartnerships.
I know it's podcasting, settingup guests, and the amount of

(09:32):
time that takes, I know is nuts.
Um, but it's just it's wildbecause like I feel like I don't
have a set schedule, um, but Itry to work within a set frame
of hours, but I still havethings I have to get done for
clients.
Um, but I almost picture yourposition as more of like a for
forgive me for bringing thiscomparison in, but like that
pastoral approach where it'slike, you know, for pastors,

(09:54):
Sunday is always coming.
You're gonna walk up on stageand look like a fool if you're
not ready.
And so for you with yourpodcast, you know, your podcast
is dropping every week.
You're gonna look like a foolif you're not ready.
But then throughout the rest ofthe week, it's you're building,
you're dreaming, you'replanning, you're connecting,
you're growing, you're seeingwhat other people are doing so
that way our community doesn'tsuck because you know, if we're
stagnant, it's not gonna grow.
So I feel like a lot of it ismore of you um almost just

(10:19):
diving in and see what otherpeople are doing and doing well,
and then just trying to setthose conversations up.

Josh Hall (10:24):
Yeah, uh, you just answered it, Mark.
I mean, that's exactly it.

Marc Hyde (10:28):
It's I mean that was my schedule back in the day.

Josh Hall (10:30):
You know what?
I never thought about that, butit is a community builder and a
pastor is eerily similar with alot of the stuff you do and
deal with uh because it's allcommunication, it's all building
community, managing people.
In some cases, it might bemanaging teams in several
departments.
Um, and of course, it dependson the level of a community

(10:52):
builder.
But yeah, no, you're totallyright.
I mean, uh the fact is, a lotof a lot of my work is seen with
the podcasts and any tutorialsI do and any content I push out,
but a lot of it is not seenbecause it's in the DMs and it's
a lot of connections and emailsthat are outside of Pro, which
is what's really interesting.
So uh I try to bring as much ofthat into the limelight as

(11:16):
possible, especially when it'sreally good.
And and you guys, I'm sureevery one of you have probably
heard from me at some point, andI've told you, like, oh, can
you post that?
Because it's so good.
I don't want to just keep thatin the DMs.
So um, that's a lot of it, butI do stick to a schedule in the
sense of generally Tuesdays andThursdays are call days, and I

(11:36):
don't really do that many callsright now.
Um, and with the podcast, likeright now I have interviews
booked out through the rest ofthe year.
So I might do a coupleinterviews early December, but I
might throw some solo episodesto keep that going.
Um, because I do try to bankthose as much as possible to
stay a month to six weeks out.
Um, but yeah, that's reallyit's it's a matter of like

(11:58):
standard call schedule, which Ikeep pretty light.
And then apart from coachingand and the work of just being
in the community, a lot of it isjust running and managing my
own projects, which cansometimes be really time
intensive.
Like right now, I just startedon the new version of the SEO
course.
So I've learned, and as youguys have learned with your own

(12:18):
businesses, you have to put adeadline on yourself.
You have to be like a hardbusiness manager to yourself to
like you have to almost have tomicromanage yourself to get it
done.
So um, all those things andmore, Mark, you're spot on, man.

Marc Hyde (12:31):
So do you feel like you pull?
I don't want to say a normal,because we don't live normal
40-hour work weeks, but do youfeel like you still fall within
that?
Or is it more of you're able tostill have what you preach with
the freedom and lifestyle thatyou need for U and M?

Josh Hall (12:45):
Oh, it's unmatched.
It's unmatched with actual timebehind my desk.
I mean, I'm probably like here20 to 25 hours a week in my
office.
Um, I do often have my laptop.
Like a lot of times, what I'lldo is like we have our nighttime
routine where I'll get Briadown.
Like she falls asleep on metypically.
So we'll do her little tubeshake and then she'll fall

(13:06):
asleep on me.
And a lot of times I'll have mylaptop and I'll pop into Pro
for maybe a half an hour or I'lldo something.
So there are like little spurtslike that.
Um, and then even like whenDrex was a newborn, sometimes I
would take him for a drive, goget coffee, and then bring my
laptop, and then we'd sit out infront of Target and I would
work for half an hour, 45minutes with a coffee.
So it is a lot like that.

(13:26):
It's pretty like all over.
Um, so that that is kind of howI how I run it.
Um, but yeah, I still very Imean, as you guys all know, it's
very hard to turn it offmentally, but time behind the
computer is well under 30 to 35hours per week, you typically,
unless it's like a busy seasonor a launch or something like
that.

Marc Hyde (13:46):
And that's awesome.
Good for you, bro.

Josh Hall (13:48):
Well, thanks, Mark.
Well, look, it's just it makesit easy too when I love it.
Like it really, it's not like Ido have the different kind of
work.
There's like FERC, there's youknow, there's different nerds
like FERC is fun work, so I'lltell M, like, I got some fun
work going on.
Like, this is fun work.
This I'm not gonna leave thisbeing drained, like, oh god,
that was a long call.
No, I'm gonna be pumped up forthe rest of the day.
Uh, good stuff, guys.

(14:09):
Let's get to some more greatquestions here.
Um, Devorah wanted to know whathas helped you keep your
podcast going for so long.
Great question, Deborah.
Um, Devorah, I've been sayingDeborah for so long.
I think the the there's a fewthings to it.
Number one, I love it.
I just love havingconversations with web

(14:30):
professionals and industryexperts and and even just people
who are early on.
I mean, a lot of pros here whohave joined and just sharing
what works.
It's so I love it.
I generally do love justtalking to people about it.
The other aspect is it is thenumber one driver for Web
Designer Pro.
So it's my number one marketingengine.
So um there it would be likethe stupidest thing in the world

(14:52):
for me to to not keep mypodcast going strong because
number one, I love it.
And number two, it's thebiggest part of uh the marketing
for my business.
Um any follow-up questions onthat, Divora?
Any anything else you want toknow with the podcast?

Devorah Epstein (15:09):
No, that was all.
I've just seen so many peoplestart a podcast and then not be
able to keep up with it after acouple of years.
So you've been I've beenlistening to you every week for
a lot of years.
So I'm just curious like howyou do that.

Josh Hall (15:23):
Oh, that's awesome.
I mean, a lot of it, you'reright.
Like the the the um the statsare staggering with how many
people drop a podcast within thefirst couple months.
It's it's something like Ithink less than five percent of
podcasts continue on past 20episodes.
So um it is not for the faintof heart for sure, especially

(15:44):
when it's an interview show andyou're scheduling.
But what one thing I've learnedis if you really, really
prepare and build up tosomething that's going to be
ongoing long term, you got toset yourself up for success.
And that's what I did with thepodcast is and I learned this, I
don't know if it was aframework or something, but

(16:05):
basically the idea is if it's ifyou're gonna commit to
something for a long time, don'trush into it.
But if it's like a one-offservice that you're gonna do
briefly, sure, like you can getgoing pretty quick.
But I thought about the podcastfor a year and I went through
Pat Flynn's Power Up Podcastingcourse, which helped a lot.
And then I had five episodesready to go out of the out of

(16:26):
the park, like out of the gate.
And and it does help that Ilove it.
I do think some people start apodcast just because they think
they should, but if you don'tlove it, it ain't gonna go well.
So, yeah, great question.
That's really that's from theoutset, you know.
I I think I tried to do thework to make sure I was set up
to make sure I could do itsustainably.
And I have killer systems withit to where now literally all I

(16:50):
do for the podcast is I schedulean interview.
Um, I have a little I'll showit to you guys real quick if you
want to see it.
I'll share my screen here.
Some of you guys who who havebeen uh on the podcast as guests
have seen this, but instead oflike overloading the guests with

(17:11):
like all these details, I sendthem to this page.
Actually, I'll put this in thechat.
Um just don't book aninterview, guys, unless I ask
you.
Um but if you're curious, thisis my this is my booking page.
And this is what I send topotential guests.
And yeah, basically just walksthem through here's where to

(17:33):
schedule a call.
Uh, and then I just give themsome I like some some tech tips.
Uh and you can see here, likethis is my call schedule.
So all I have available is acouple in November, Tuesdays and
Thursdays.
So uh I practice what I preach,as Mark said.
Um, those are the only timesyou could book a, you know,

(17:54):
unless it's like if somebodyabsolutely can't make that, I
will do a call on a Thursday orFriday occasionally.
Then I have a little reviewyour setup situation here, and
then I just let them know thatwe use Riverside.
And then here is the form whereI collect their guest
information, which then goes toChris, my VA.
And then once I record theinterview, it's in Riverside,

(18:16):
and I have very littlepost-production on my end.
I'll I'll write up the shownotes for it, and then um I'll
figure out what's clip I want touse via Riverside, which is
where we record it, and that'sit.
That's it for me, apart fromscheduling it.
Everyone else, Chris takes careof the graphics and the
distribution, and we go fromthere.
So good to see you, Chris.

How far do you batch them now?

Josh Hall (18:37):
What's that?
Defor, I'm sorry.

How far do you batch them out now?

Josh Hall (18:42):
I try to stay about four to six weeks.
So let's do this live.
I'll show you.
Here's my podcast schedule.
Super fancy using GoogleSheets.
So right now we're recordingthis right now.
So I'll get this ready for nextweek.

(19:03):
And then I've got three alreadyrecorded through December, and
then I'm gonna be doing a coupleQA.
Actually, I have a couplepodcast interviews later this
month that will fill up the nexttwo, and then I'll probably do
a solo episode, so that'll bethere the rest of this year.
So I'm generally about a monthout in an ideal world.
I am um two like six weeks out.

unknown (19:24):
Yeah.

Josh Hall (19:25):
Oh, yeah.
Alexia says, ooh, Jay Class.
Yeah, Jay and I had a greatconversation that's gonna be
live here in a couple weeks.
So good stuff.
Great questions, though,Devore.
Thanks for that.
I really appreciate that.
I'm so glad you've beenlistening.
When did you start listening?
Do you remember about when youstarted listening?

I think a couple months before I joined
Pro, so maybe 2022.

Josh Hall (19:50):
Okay, awesome.
Wow.
Well, it's an honor.
It's an honor to be for you tolisten that long.
So thank you.
Awesome, guys.
Let's get to some morequestions.
Some really good ones arecoming through, so I'll make
sure we get all of them here.
Um, Louise said, I'm gettinginto course creation.
Do you have any tips or AItools used to streamline the
process?

(20:10):
So, Louise, what I wouldrecommend doing actually the
process.
So I did a little behind thescenes um on how I create a
course years ago.
I'll put this in the chat.
It is literally still what Ido.
Um, but one thing I will sayfor you, Louise, is it really
depends on like the coursecreation process, I think

(20:34):
depends on how the the courseliterally looks.
Like, is it more written or isit more video?
I will say if you get superedited on course videos, it's
gonna take forever.
So I really try to prepare asmuch as you can before recording
the actual lesson to avoid abunch of post-production because
that's where courses can getout of control.

(20:55):
Um, I'll find this.
Do you have any additionalfollow-up questions on that,
Louise?
AI tools, all I've been doing,like on the last course, the DNS
course, I just had the lessonsand wrote it, and then I would
double check things with ChatGPT, or if I was like, what is
this thing with a CDN?
I would ask ChatGPT to help me,you know, figure, fill in,

(21:17):
basically fill in the gaps.
But I do not rely on AI towrite an outline for a course.
I I really like to think likehow I want to learn is how I'm
gonna teach.

Louise Sims (21:26):
Yeah, I've I've done that with like my outlines.
I've just put it in and said,is there anything you think I've
missed?
And when it comes up with somestupid suggestion, I just ignore
it because I'm like, no, that'snot that's not relevant.
Thanks, chat.
Um, but yeah, no, I think mineare like how-tos, a bit like
yours.
So it is trying to keep it likewithout too much editing

(21:47):
afterwards because I have donecourses a couple of years ago
and I want to make them, I wantto make these much easier to
complete alongside everythingelse, really.

Josh Hall (21:57):
Yeah, that's the way to go.
Um, so it's a longer video, butI did just post in the chat the
um the video on my coursecreation process, which is kind
of like a documentary style onhow I do it.
But again, it kind of dependson the size of the course, I
think, for you.
Um, the biggest thing toremember if you do a course is
if you you really got to havethe transformation and the

(22:18):
result in mind throughout theentire process.
And because that's gonnadictate how long the lessons
are, how many lessons you'regonna have, the structure, the
assets, the downloads.
Um so have that in mind.
And I would just remember likethink about like make it a guide
and try to make it as fun asyou can.
Like keep people engaged perlesson.

(22:39):
Otherwise, you know, we're allreally busy.
It can be so easy to drift offor get bored and quick wins,
quick wins per lesson is anothertip I would try to recommend
going for.

Louise Sims (22:48):
Yeah, thank you.

Josh Hall (22:50):
Heck yeah.
Well, I'm pumped for you,Louise.
Keep me posted on that.
I can't wait to hear about it.
Awesome, guys.
Let's give back some questions.
Great ones here.
Um, Tamara, what is one of thehardest but maybe good lessons
you've learned in business as awhole?
All right.
I tell you what, Tamara, giveme a category because I could
go, you know, me, this could goa lot of different directions.

(23:13):
Is there a particular categoryof lessons learned you're
interested in?

Oh gosh, I don't know if there's a specific
category.
I just think, you know, theprocess of, you know, starting
the whole pro community, buteven before that, just like
where you've had to pushyourself, you know, in certain
areas that if you want to takein that step, would it be where
it is today?
Kind of thing, I guess is kindof what I'm thinking.

Josh Hall (23:34):
Oh, I like that.
Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

Josh Hall (23:36):
Actually, yeah, probably like when we rebranded
to pro and when it went from webdesign club to Web Designer
Pro, that pivot season.
I've been very public aboutgoing from a for a curse, a
courses first business to amembership first business.
Um, yeah, I mean, it was it washard.
It was a hard transition.

(23:58):
I underestimated the the slowcompounding nature of a
membership versus larger one-offsales with courses.
And when I essentially turnedoff courses, or I stopped
promoting one-off courses andwent Web Designer Pro first.
Um, Web Designer Pro went likethis.

(24:18):
The the build was slow andsteady, but my course sales
dropped almost completelyovernight.
So it was like, I mean, it wasuh it was a painful pivot.
Yeah.
But I just kept on remindingmyself that like this is
working.
And if it works with oneperson, it works with two, it
works with five, it'll work with10, it'll work with a hundred.
So that was one of the hardestand most important lessons was

(24:41):
like, I have a product thatworks, and it's very hard to
shift and pivot like that.
But if I know it works and Iand I feel like it's what I want
to do, and that gut feelingsays, like, this is where I
think the business should go.
I think there's a lot of powerin that for any of us who follow
our gut.

So I think it's like, you know, in those
moments as your business whenyou're making those like
decisions that will pivot thebusiness pretty substantially,
and you're kind of like, Did Ijust start my whole business on
fire?
Or is it and sometimes it'sthat slow progression where you
know it's going somewhere, butum, but then you have wonderful
friends and other, you know,business owners that can speak
into your life.

(25:17):
But yeah, just pretty much myquestion, and thank you for
answering it was pretty muchjust that.

Josh Hall (25:22):
So yeah, that's no, that's a great question.
And honestly, I mean, I thinkback to 2023 when that was
really tough.
I was, I mean, I could the corepeople around me were huge.
Jason Shannon, uh, mymastermind group, um, Tim
Streifler is a close colleagueof mine who runs Divi Life.
Uh, we've talked a lot throughthat period.
Like, there are there were likea few folks who were not the

(25:47):
it's in the exact same position,but knew the course world slash
product world slash coachingworld, and I was getting
validation and real-timefeedback that really helped.
So, and that's one reason wehave Pro is when you guys are
going through pivots or toughtimes, you have a support system
to lean on.
So, yeah, that was huge.

Thank you.

Josh Hall (26:09):
Awesome.
Well, thank you, Tamara.
Gosh, that's good questions,guys.
Let's go.
Oh, April with a good one.
Uh, what do you miss from beinga web designer?
And what are you glad you don'thave to do anymore?
I do miss my networking group.
I was actually just thinkingabout this recently because um
I'll uh cats out of the bag.
One of our speakers for ProCon2026 is actually my financial

(26:33):
advisor, who was a foundingmember of my networking group as
well.
We were we were in a grouptogether for eight years and
she's freaking awesome.
And I'm like, I miss Julie.
I miss meeting with her everyweek, and I miss some of the
other folks.
Uh I don't miss everybody, butI do miss some of the folks, and
I do miss that like weeklyroutine of every Friday morning,
I'm up and it's networkinggroup time.

(26:55):
So I do miss that.
Um, I also do miss like a goodold I miss um a good sales
meeting with good notes and likebeing fired up by like, ooh, I
think I can help this client.
Like, I'm really excited aboutthis.
And you know, like not allmeetings go like that, but I do

(27:16):
like I remember vividly leavingthe retina group, which is a
surgical place in Columbus, andlike my notes were slick.
I I'm pretty sure they'removing forward, and I was like,
ooh, this is gonna be this isthis could be awesome.
So I do miss that feeling.
Um, what I don't miss iscontact collection.
And um I don't miss whenthere's misaligned expectations,

(27:42):
which both of those things, youknow, I'm trying to help you
guys as much as possible withgetting clear on both of those.
But um anytime there is aclient service provider
relationship, especially whenit's creative, there are you
know a little bit of back andforth, and like you really need
to like work on aligningexpectations.
But in a way, I'm actuallydoing that now with sponsors and

(28:06):
and the partners I'm workingwith.
When I'm talking with 17 hatsand with Circle and some other
tools I use and trust, like Ihave a creative vision idea, but
they have budgets and they havea creative vision and idea.
So we're kind of meeting in themid in the middle.
So I still do some of that, butum yeah, definitely don't miss
that aspect.

(28:27):
Any follow-up on that, April?
And sorry, guys, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know, I know youguys are probably multitasking
and working.

April Ray (28:36):
So no, I was trying to find my mouse.
Um, it was on my other screen.
No, um that's that's kind ofwhat I figured, you know, it's
just there's there's good andbad to everything.
And so, yeah, no, the contentcollection and um and uh the
misaligned expectations.
And I find anytime I don'tstick to the processes and
boundaries that I have in place,that's when things go awry.

(28:58):
And you you taught me a longtime ago that you can give
people, you know, grace andstuff, but they kind of have to
earn it first.
Like if I have a really goodclient that she's always been
great and she's like, hey, I'msorry, we need to reschedule
this or do what whatever.
I'm way more likely to let herthan like a new client who I'm
already like not sure about.

(29:19):
I'm like, no, we need to do itthis way because otherwise it's
just gonna go off the rails.
I've seen it multiple times.
So yeah, uh, no, I I agree onboth of those.
And yeah, no, I I'm with you onthe feeling of a good sales
caller.
You're like, this is gonna begood.

Josh Hall (29:34):
Yeah, or you're like, oh god, I got a good idea on
this.
I've already got a vision in myhead.
Yeah, no, you're totally right,April.
That's a I'm so glad youbrought that up.
You had a lot of validation onthat about earning, what did you
say?

April Ray (29:47):
Earning earning grace, earning um, you know,
kind of letting those boundariesslide a little bit, but you
kind of have to earn it firstbecause yeah, otherwise, like
anytime I've letting letclients.
Out off the rails, then it justthe whole project gets messed
up.

Josh Hall (30:04):
So true.
Especially with call like callsor texts.
It's like, okay, I've beenworking with this client for a
decade.
They're awesome.
You know, this isn't normal forthem.
But yeah, that that new clientthat's already a little needy,
if they call you on a Fridaynight and you answer, you just
set the precedent for them towalk all over you.
Yeah.

April Ray (30:22):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So no good answers.

Josh Hall (30:26):
Good stuff, April.
Hope you and Justin had fun onvacation.
Was it last week?
A couple weeks ago?

April Ray (30:31):
Um, oh no, it was at the beginning of the month.
The kids have fall break.
So but it was it was super,super fun.
Uh we just love going down toOrange Beach, as I know you guys
do too.

Josh Hall (30:40):
So I know we need like double date, like double
family date this thing upbecause I know we're never down
there at the same time.

April Ray (30:46):
Although when we first went down there, I asked
you a ton of questions like whatdo we need to do?
Like, where do we need to go?
And all this stuff.
So, anyways, now we now we'vegot it down to a fine art.

Josh Hall (30:53):
Yes, vacation coaching is only something I do
to my qualified members as well.
So I will share all the hotspots in Orange Beach.
Actually, you you and Justinand me and him could not be
trusted with childcare onvacation, so it's probably best
we keep it separated.

April Ray (31:08):
Oh no, I know.
It'll be fun though.

Josh Hall (31:10):
Is Justin coming?
Is he planning on coming toProCon next year?

April Ray (31:13):
Yes, he's really excited.

Josh Hall (31:15):
He's really excited.

April Ray (31:16):
So also, uh, just just a funny thing.
Um, Justin, I may have alreadytold you this, but Justin and I
did this uh like thing where youcheck off like which states you
visited and which ones youhaven't.
And Justin was kind of readingthem off, and he's like, Ohio.
I'm like, I've never been toOhio.
He's like, Yes, you have, it'sright there.
I'm like, no, but I've neverbeen to Ohio.
So that Ohio is my bucket listitem, so we're checking that

(31:39):
off.

Josh Hall (31:40):
What a way to do it.
Well, we're gonna set the barhigh because it's gonna be
freaking awesome again.
Um side story for those whodon't know, April and I uh we
met up at WordCamp in 23, andher her husband Justin like
drilled me and was like, whydoes she need a web design
business coach?
Like, just straight up ask me.

(32:01):
So it's actually a good, like,oh, I had to be on the spot and
answer that.
But it did give me like a in away, I needed that question
because it was like, because aregular business coach doesn't
know what web designers gothrough.
And in most industries are sodifferent from web design
because there's such a creativeelement to it.
Same could be said forphotographers and other arts

(32:23):
like video and and music andstuff like that.
But I do think it's importantto have a business, I mean,
potentially a business coachthat's outside your industry
because they can help, but alsoone that understands content
collection and DNS struggles anduh all you know, builder
upgrades, all those differentthings.

April Ray (32:44):
Yeah, no, he uh I was embarrassed that he did that.
But also, that was at likemidnight after the um 80s bar
incident.

Josh Hall (32:53):
So yeah, we're a good time, but hey, that's when the
honest questions comes out, comeout.
So uh heck yeah.
No, tell I tell him I I took nooffense.
It was a good uh it was a goodit kept me fresh.

Speaker 6 (33:05):
Yeah.

Josh Hall (33:06):
Awesome, April.
I'm pumped to see you guyshere, and uh well, we've got to
wait six months, but it'll gofast.

April Ray (33:10):
So same, same, yeah.
It's gonna be great.

Josh Hall (33:12):
By the way, planning on doing first round of tickets
here soon, like probably thismonth.
So I'll let you guys know assoon as we get the final details
together for a first round oftickets.
Awesome, guys.
Let's get to some morequestions.
And Lisa will bring you up heretoo.
I know you've had your handraised.
Um, so let's tell you what,we'll get through a few
questions and then Lisa, ifyou're good on time, let me know
if you need to leave early atany point, Lisa, and I'll bring

(33:35):
you up sooner than later becauseI know you've had your hand up.
Um, let's go to Liz, who asks,how do you manage a gazillion
notifications without gettingglued to your phone, thinking
about balance between peopledemanding your attention and
work life?
Uh, I think what helps for me,Liz, is I am a AIM a no

(33:59):
notifications guy.
Like I don't even havenotifications on circle, uh, at
least on my phone.
I do check in on my phone, butI have found myself needing to
almost stop that because whathappens is I'll see something,
and if I don't respond to it,I'll forget about it by the time
I get to my computer later orthe next day.
So that's been the biggie.

(34:21):
But I I will say this, listen,I think this goes for anyone
who's managing and helpingclients with social media is
social media is such a likesecondary thing to me.
Like, pro is the priority.
I generally always log into profirst and try to get to as many
questions and DMs as I canbefore going elsewhere.

(34:41):
So that's really it.
I just don't I just don't haveany notifications on.
Any follow-up on that, Liz?

Liz Jimenez Agudelo (34:49):
No, I think I think that's refreshing, and
I think that people need to hearthat.
So often these areconversations that I have with
clients as well about likemanaging expectations with
social media and like withpeople or communities.
Like I've run onlinecommunities before, and it can
be like life-consuming if youlet it.
And so good for you.
I think it's great, and I thinkit's great for people to hear

(35:11):
it's okay to turn off yournotifications, and it's okay to
make people wait for a response,and it's okay to kind of cap
your time on that becauseotherwise it can kind of take
over, and then it's notnecessarily an income-producing
activity, right?
Like it can be, but not always,not all notifications are
equally important.

Josh Hall (35:32):
Well said, yeah, and kind of the April's point of
like the earning, the thepriority or communication for
pro, it's like the level ofhierarchy is DM from coaching
members.
Like you guys, I really tryhard to get within 24 hours
weekdays.
It's very rare that I go pastthat.
Sometimes 48 if it's like aFriday to Monday, but generally,

(35:53):
you know, that day I try hardto do that.
The next hierarchy is uhmentions.
So like if somebody mentions mein a post, I'll get to that.
And then it's like scanning theforum and general questions or
some of the chat spaces.
So, and then one thing withsocial media for anyone who has
like a coaching program or isbalancing any sort of even if

(36:14):
it's like a customer communityor custom customer membership,
is if you make yourself superavailable on social media, it
gives less incentive for them tojoin coaching or join your
community or membership.
So, just a heads up on that.
I'm actually really glad that Isold my Facebook group because
for those who don't know, Ibuilt up the the Divi Web

(36:36):
Designers group to like 20k pluspeople.
It's still huge, it's still agreat group.
But one of the reasons I didn'treally recognize this
initially, but one of thereasons I'm glad I sold that to
Tim Streifler with Divi Life.
And one of the reasons I'm gladI stepped back from that is I
think if I was super active inDivi Web Designers, people might
be like, well, why pay for prowhen I can just talk to Josh and

(37:00):
this free Facebook group?
So I think, and I I would relaythat to clients too, who are
doing memberships.
Like, you gotta make sure youif somebody's paying for access
to you, it needs to be a veryclear reason why.
And you gotta watch youravailability in other channels.
So I think that helps too, Liz.
Is like I'm just not thatworried about Instagram

(37:21):
notifications or LinkedIn orFacebook as much.
Like those are, you know, it'scool.
I love seeing likes on posts,and I do enjoy uh DMing some
people, especially when it comesto people who are in curious
about pro or maybe formermembers who are thinking about
rejoining.
But yeah, it's secondary forsure.
Great question, though, guys.
Oh, these questions are great.

(37:42):
All right, let's get to somemore here because I there's some
good ones coming through.
Um Megan.
And then Jude is up next.
And then Lisa, let me know howyou're doing on time.
We'll make sure we get you uphere to chat as well.
Um, thinking about podcasts,says Megan.
Did it take you time before youstopped feeling like an

(38:02):
imposter, or were your YouTubevideos first for you?
I'm asking because I think thething that stops me from posting
on social or starting a YouTubechannel is thinking, why would
anyone care to follow or watchwhat I have to say?
Yeah.
So Megan, um, in my case, itwas YouTube.
The YouTube videos came first.
And what was different from myYouTube channel back in 2019 and

(38:26):
then my um podcast is that mypodcast was much more business
focused, whereas the YouTubechannels or the YouTube channel
started as tutorial videos.
So, what did help me withimposter syndrome was in the
case of my YouTube channel, Ijust showed literally what I was
doing.
Were there better ways to doit?

(38:46):
Sure.
Were people better coders?
Sure.
But it worked for me.
So literally, it was an easy,it was an easy thing to get over
imposter syndrome because I waslike, I'm not an imposter in
this case because like this isactually what I do.
Like this is what it were, thisis what worked.
Same thing with the businessstuff.
It's like I didn't need to feelimposter syndrome about web

(39:09):
design pricing or proposalprocess or you know, anything I
teach in the business coursebecause it's what I did.
Like I basically earned theright, because I worked my ass
off for a decade as a webdesigner, to not feel like an
imposter because I did it.
Like I already've made, youknow, multiple six figures with
my web design business.
So I knew it worked.

(39:29):
So I think for anyone, even ifyou're early on, I think the
thing to remember is um don'tcreate content on what you're
like unsure of or what you thinkyou should create content on.
Just create content on what youdo.
And Megan, you can come up ifyou want to follow up on this.
But like if you help one ofyour clients grow and they get
more sales or contact formsubmissions or consultations

(39:52):
booked through the website, docontent on that because there's
no need to feel impostersyndrome because you did it.
Like you literally did it.
So I hope that helps.

Megan Fletcher (40:02):
Yeah, I think one of the things, because when
you were talking about podcasts,it's just the reason that
you've done it for so long isit's just something you really
enjoy doing too.
And for me, like I've alwaysreally enjoyed just recording my
like sewing or recording myselfcreating things, like it's you
know, outside of like workstuff, like just that's why I've

(40:23):
always thought YouTube would befun.
Like I've always wanted to trydoing that, and so that was but
I'm just getting myself behindthe camera, I just it just feels
really like uncomfortable forme, right?
Because I've never really doneit much, and so just getting
over that like aself-deprecating mentality of

(40:44):
like thinking like I why wouldanyone or maybe I'm not good at
it, why would anyone care towatch it type mentality of just
trying something new?

Josh Hall (40:55):
How much have you made in your first couple years
to start, Megan?
I mean, like you're you're ontrack to potentially do like
you're building a six-figurebusiness, fair to say, right?

Yeah, I think this year I'm not gonna hit
that, but I I'm like this closeto at least doubling last
year's, which is really cool.

Josh Hall (41:17):
So the reason I framed it like that is how many
web designers would kill to beable to say, I'm gonna double my
revenue from one year to thenext, and I have the foundation
for a hundred thousand dollarbusiness.
A lot of web designers wouldlove to know what you did.
So um, yeah, I mean, that'slike that's all the proof you

(41:38):
need right there.
You've done it, like you'redoing it.
So um it's interesting becauselike a lot of like really good
quote unquote developers orpeople who know a lot about one
thing are terrible atcommunication, terrible at
business.
So it's like, yeah, maybethere's better, you know,
developers or designers, but youare you're you're the full

(41:59):
package, Megan.
You're you're a designer,you're developing, you're a
great communicator, you'rehelping your clients, you care,
and you're doing it.
So like that is something to besuper proud of.
Um, and that goes for everyonehere, you know, especially those
of you who are early on.
The other thing I would say forcontent, just don't record,
like if you do record yourselfface to camera, just do like the

(42:22):
little loom in the corner.
Like you don't, it doesn't needto be, you know, the Megan show
to start.
Um, my tutorial videos, Iwasn't even on camera for like
the first, I think, year and ahalf or like a lot of them.
They were all just screenrecording.
So if you like showing yourwork and showing what you're
doing, that's what I would do.
Um, obviously you want to gearit towards clients, but um, you

(42:44):
you could probably just likeshowcase a design and say, like,
here's how I built this youknow section with Elementor, and
here's how this helped myclient.
It you potentially don't evenneed to be on camera.
Or maybe you could just do aquick intro and pop up and say,
like, hey, I'm Megan, webdesigner, um, information here,
you know, and then it goes tothe video.
So yeah, no, and you don't noone needs to be, you know, a

(43:06):
social media influencer as a webdesigner for sure.

Right.
It's so intimidating, but yeah,and thank you.
And then just even all thecomments of everyone.
It's just it's so hardsometimes to like feel like you,
I don't know, to to transitionyour mindset from like being
just like a grunt at a job tolike being actually talented and
like knowing what you're doing,you know?

Josh Hall (43:28):
Yeah, from grunt to from grunt to business owner.
Um, I mean, I think pretty mucheverybody here can relate to
that on some level.
But I'm glad you mentionedthat, Megan, because I'm just
thinking back to when I metNathan, who was the content
manager with Elegant Themes, thecreators of Divi years ago,
almost 10 years ago.
Um, I felt that same waybecause I remember I was almost

(43:50):
making six figures.
Like I was gonna make sixfigures back in 2016 with my
business.
I felt like that was nothing.
I like I knew agency owners whowere doing way more and who had
teams, so I just felt like kindof a loser, freelancer.
Um, but he was like, he's like,you're almost doing six figures
making Divi sites.
And I was like, Yeah, with mymaintenance plan and um my

(44:11):
networking group.
And he was like, that'sincredible, dude.
He's like, a lot of peoplewould love to learn from you.
And I was like, Oh, I didn'tthink about that.
So yeah, you're there, Megan.
You're there.
A lot of you guys here arethere.
Awesome questions, guys.
All right, we'll get to a fewmore and then we'll bring Lisa
up.
If that sounds good, Lisa,let's jump over.
And I'm trying to keep an eyeon the chat too.
There's always great chat goingon.

(44:33):
Um, Judah wants to know what isthe most difficult in staying
up with date uh to dateregarding web twin web trends,
excuse me, as your role, uh,since it's much much less in the
weeds.
Well, it does help Judah thatI'm still designing websites.
Like it's it's not like I don'tdesign at all.

(44:54):
Um I did a lot of rework onJosh Hall.co.
And as you guys probably sawrecently, I just launched the
new version ofWebdesignerPro.com, learning
Divi5 and getting back into alot of the technical side of
things.
So it's not a muscle that Iturned off.
Uh, it's certainly somethingthat I still do.
It's it is just differentbecause it's not at scale

(45:14):
necessarily, but I am stillhonestly, I actually think in a
lot of ways I'm more ahead thanI would be designing websites
for for clients because I'mseeing what you guys are doing
in pro.
I have a lot of colleagues thatI have first set of eyes on
what they're doing.
Um, a lot of guests who arecoming on the Web Design
Business Podcast.

(45:34):
I'm like, oh my gosh, this islike, you know, the world needs
to hear about this kind ofthing.
So yeah, I think I'm actually ahundred times more.
Uh this is like, this sounds sodouchey, but I feel like I'm a
hundred percent more value, ahundred times more valuable in
my role now because I'm seeingwhat's working here in pro on
the podcast with my colleagues,within transit studios, with the

(45:58):
agency, with Eric running it.
Um yeah, so like I have aunique perspective that I try to
make sure I don't lose sightof.
Um, if I was building websitesfor clients at scale right now,
I wouldn't be able to see allthe trends that are happening.
Um, and uniquely too, when Iwas building WordPress websites,

(46:20):
I didn't know anything aboutany other builder.
But now I, you know, we havefolks like Emily here doing
Squarespace sites, we have folksdoing Wix sites, we have squo
folks doing a lot more circlebuilds now um with different
tools.
So we have we have some webflowusers.
Like I am kind of I am seeingwhat a little bit like I kind of
have my foot in all thedifferent um areas of web

(46:42):
design.
So does that make sense, Judah?
Yeah, that's kind of that'skind of how I feel.
It's a great question because Ido get that a lot.
Yeah, not sure if Judah's stillhere with us, but uh my
thoughts on that.
Okay, cool guys.
Let's get to a couple morequestions.
And Lisa, if you're good tocome up, I'll bring you up.
Uh man, such good questions,guys.

(47:03):
I hope you guys are having funtoo.
I know this is just kind of alive interactive QA, but hope
this is helping you guys aswell.
Where do you think communitybuilding is going in the future?
Everyone, it seems everyone isjumping on having community
nowadays.
How are you staying ahead andintentionally being different
with pro compared to others?
Yeah, community is all therage.
I mean, I I think you you mayyou guys may have a different

(47:27):
perspective with service-basedweb design businesses, but I
think the value of community isthat it can't be touched by AI.
It is something that can bevery, very valuable as an asset,
especially if it's with a likerecurring revenue membership
model.
Um, but community is extremelydifficult for all the reasons

(47:50):
we've talked about so far.
Um I think that the trick withcommunity is by nature community
can't be huge.
This is the the balance withWeb Design Pro.
It's also the reason I went tothe tiered model last year
because I we were at capacitywith this coaching tier.

(48:10):
You know, this call right now,can you imagine if we had 200
people on this call, guys?
Like it would be an eight-hourcall.
So, like, community by natureneeds to be um almost like
constrained for it to behealthy.
Uh, and actually going back tolike what Mark said earlier with

(48:30):
community builder being almostlike a pastor, for anyone who
has has been in the church worldbefore, what happens for those
who don't know, when a churchreach a certain certain size,
it's I you have one of twodecisions.
You become a mega church andhave like 20,000 people come, or
you split off in locations andyou have like micro churches

(48:51):
under the same umbrella.
I really think communitybuilding is like that too.
You know, pro if if if I wantedto, we could make pro so
there's like 10,000 people init.
Do you guys want that?
I don't know.
I see a lot of heads shaking.
I saw every head shaking.
Um so it's the it's the sweetspot of like keeping it at a

(49:14):
healthy size.
But one problem and onechallenge too is when when
people get busy, it's harder tohave time to show up.
So a community can be veryquiet if members are being
successful and they just don'thave time to engage like they
used to.
So it's a very, very trickybalance.
Um, and it's one that I'm stillworking through and trying to

(49:34):
maintain pro healthy size whilealso being welcoming to new
folks and also making surepeople who are busy and don't
have the time to invest likethey did previously still come
back.
So, any follow-up on that,Alexia?
Great questions, great promptson this.

Alexia Lynn (49:49):
Um, not really.
I just know you're really intocommunity building, and I saw
your talk coming up with Circle,and I was like, signed up for
that, of course.
Um, it's just something I'mreally interested in, just
because you've done an amazingjob with Pro.
And so I'm learning andabsorbing all I can.

Josh Hall (50:04):
Well, you're you are a community builder.
I know you are, Alexia.
And you're, you know, I likethat you're in you're in the RD
mode right now.
You're in research anddevelopment on it.
Um, I think it helps that youstarted your newsletter and are
getting probably some real-timefeedback from people, hopefully.
Um, a lot of it is, though, Iwould say, like, even for your
clients, if you guys arebuilding a membership site or a

(50:24):
community site for clients, tellthem this, which is they need
to act like a community builder.
Like you have to show up.
And I think with community, themore personalized you can get,
the better.
It's gonna engage people more.
Um, I think pretty mucheveryone here has probably got a
personal welcome video from meor a personal audio message or

(50:47):
something when you joined.
I still do that to this day.
Um, just because I know howvaluable it is.
Otherwise, people are gonnabounce.
So I don't do it for folks whojoined the courses tier, but I'm
thinking about a way to do thatdifferently.
Um so yeah, that's kind of likethe more personalization you
can get into it, I think thebetter for sure.

(51:08):
That'll be a big part of thecircle talk coming up for sure.
Yeah, for anyone who'sinterested, I am speaking at the
next circle summit here um in acouple weeks, which is gonna be
super exciting.
So shameless plug, I'll put itin the chat.
It's totally free to sign upfor if you guys have interest in
community, or if you are umbuilding communities for

(51:31):
clients, come on over.
It's totally free to join.
It's gonna be cool.
Alexia, how did they photoshopmy shirt green?
How did they do that?

Yeah, I saw that.
It was funny.
Ever since I made that thatcircle post that we designed,
like the 11 things about circle,their retargeting is crazy.
Like I get it on Facebook, onInstagram.
It's just they have targeted mespecifically.

Speaker 6 (51:57):
Really?

Do everything with it.
We I mean it's every time Iopen the app.
It's crazy.

Josh Hall (52:01):
The video that we that you created for me, that my
post.

Well, yeah, because uh I I don't know if it's
something to do with them orit's because I was on the circle
website for a long time tryingto figure out how they did that,
like around the thing, and Itook graphics from them um to be
able to create that and make iton brand.
But I just think yeah, I'vealso been to the circle website
a few times, uh, just looking atdifferent stuff that they've
got on there.
So retargeting is like crazygood.

(52:26):
Like it's just it's all overthe place.
So I saw yours on there withyour face, and I was like, I'm
gonna sign up for that.

Josh Hall (52:31):
Heck yeah.
Wow, that's fun.
That's interesting.
Well, thanks for the question,Alexia.
Lots of follow-up on that forsure.
But yeah, that, you know,definitely I'll I'll share more
in a couple weeks for the summitfor anyone who's curious.
But uh, yeah, it's really justretention, retention strategies.
That's kind of what I'mthinking through more so after
this push for the fall as well.

(52:52):
Um, some really good follow-upquestions, real quick in the
chat.
Harold said, I'd love to seemore deaf people joining us.
Yeah, Harold, I think I don'tknow.
Hopefully, the captions areworking for you.
I think they are.
Um, I do have like some contentfrom ProCon last year that I
think I'll put out for Haroldjust because we were able to
have some ASL services, AmericanSign Language for Harold.
And we I think all of us whogot to meet in person, um, it

(53:15):
was really one of the firsttimes I was able to interact
with a deaf person and beingable to like, you know, Harold
has his device that he typesinto, and I'm able to do audio
and chat with back and forth.
So it was really cool, man.
And I'm excited to have youback and definitely um, yeah,
definitely gonna make sure it'sknown that um folks in the ASO
world can jump on into WebCenter Pro for sure.

(53:38):
Uh Emily said, Do you thinkthere's a minimum for a
community to make it successful?
I think size of a community, Ithink for like a good core
community, anything over 200 and250 becomes a different type of
beast.
Um I think you need at leastprobably 30 to 50 to make to

(53:59):
have enough engagement betweencalls and forums.
But anything over, I you couldprobably in some manner go up to
500 with tiers just to havelike a an engaged forum.
But for calls and stuff likethis, you know, it's it's hard
to go past if if 25% of peopleare showing up, it's hard to go

(54:20):
past 100 and 150.
What's the law?
What's the law of 150 people?
What's that called?
Where I mean, likeevolutionarily, tribes were
generally 100 to 150 peoplebecause once it got bigger than
that, it's too big to manage,depending on the hierarchy.
You got you then you have likeseparate tribes.

(54:40):
So there's something to that inthe community world as well.
All right.
Lisa, her arm is so tired.
Let's bring Lisa up.
I'm so sorry, Lisa.
Let's give you some time toshine.
Do you have a question orthoughts?
And then we'll get back to somemore questions.

Lisa Williams (54:56):
I know Megan's not here.
Megan, if you're listening tothis replay, find your sweet
spot in what you want to put onYouTube because people want to
hear you and people want to knowwhat you know about said topic.
So, yeah, that's what I want tosay because she's got it going.
She'll she'll do fine.

Josh Hall (55:14):
So, anyways, shoot her a note too, Lisa.
Give her a little, yeah.
Maybe follow the video.
I will.
That'd be great.
She'd love to hear from you.
That's just that is also just agood uh rule of thumb for
anyone creating content.
It's yeah, find your sweetspot.

We all have something to share.
We all have something that isis unique.
That mine just happened to be apad adjacent to web design, but
I was always trying to findthis the little piece that I can
share about what I do as awhole.
So there you go.

Josh Hall (55:44):
There's my because we have our own human story behind
it, we have our ownperspective, which it could Lisa
and I could do the we could dotutorials on the exact same
topic, and they would becompletely different because of
our experience around it.
Thank you.
Thank you, Lisa.
By the way, if anyone goes tothe leaderboard, I want to

(56:05):
publicly thank Lisa because ifyou guys go up in pro and click
leaders, Lisa is our number onemember.
So, Lisa, I'm going to send youa special gift.

Uh in honor of a ticket to WT WDP Pro Con.

Josh Hall (56:24):
Uh, I was thinking more free swag, but I'm just
kidding, Josh.

I'm getting the ticket out just late.

Josh Hall (56:30):
That's tempting.
It's awesome.
At the very least, you will getsome swag on me.
Um our number, yeah, our ourtop member in five years
trailing is Ben, Michelle, Mark,April, Kate, Brian, Carol,
Sandra, and Alexia has justcreeped into the top 10.

Yes, and Ben is on my booty.

Josh Hall (56:51):
That's right.

Michelle, I love it.
I love it.

Josh Hall (56:55):
By the way, the leader, the way the leaderboard
works is however many likes youget on your posts and comments,
it bumps you up as a so youbasically get a point for every
like you get on comments.
So everyone go like Ben's postright now, and then we'll have a
race for number one.
It's just kidding, Lisa.
Thank you, though.
Sincerely, thank you forshowing up every week in pro,

(57:16):
Lisa, for five years.
You're amazing.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Thank you.

Josh Hall (57:20):
All right, guys, we're gonna do a lightning round
of questions to try to get asmuch as we can here.
I don't have a hard stop at12:30.
I just wanted to keep us around90 minutes.
I know you guys got websites tobuild and businesses to run.
Which is an easier, harderbusiness to run, pro or your web
design business?
Also, which is more fulfillingand why?
Uh, community is way harder.

(57:42):
Way, way, way, way harder.
Community and memberships ingeneral are harder to sell.
Um, and there's a lot of like,I think there's a lot of um not
pre-work.
There's a lot of trust thatneeds to be earned by way of
actually doing something.
Like, you can't just build acommunity to teach something if

(58:06):
you are not in the industry orif you haven't already, you
gotta achieve something beforeyou teach it, basically.
Um, now that's not to say thatyou can't teach something and
show what you're doing rightnow, but I think there's a
difference between like buildinga community around a product or
a framework rather than likeyou know, building something

(58:27):
around what you've done in thepast.
I don't know, maybe I didn'tsay that right.
I don't mean to be discouragingfor anyone to build a
community, but like I think whatI could not build Web Designer
Pro if I was not a web designer.
Um, now could I do it like if Istarted web design and started
getting clients?
Could I build a micro communityaround it?
Yes, probably in a way, if it'smore of a like we do it

(58:48):
together.
But in the way I've structuredPro, at least, it's a membership
based off of years ofexperience, proven courses and
frameworks, and then obviouslywhat you guys are bringing to
the table.
So, in that sense, I think it'sa lot harder to build community
because when people join acommunity, especially if it's a
coaching community, you need tohave done the work previously.

(59:09):
So I think in that way it makesit harder.
Whereas when you're a webdesigner, if you can build a
website, you can get a clientand you're good to go.
There's no pre prior workneeded.
So um, yeah, I mean, I've saidlike I built a six-figure web
design business without knowingwhat the hell I was doing.
So by golly, if I could do it,anyone could do it, and pro will

(59:29):
help you get there a lotfaster.
I need to clip that and put iton the sales page.
Um, which is more fulfilling,they were both truly fulfilling.
It's so much more, I think thisis a personality type thing,
Alexis.
Um, and feel free to, if you'restill with us, Alexis, feel
free to jump in on this.
But I think you really need tobe self aware about what lights
you up through your energy.

(59:50):
Um, I loved working withclients, but I love teaching
more, and I love helping youguys build your businesses more.
It's More fulfilling to me, butI've seen people, just like uh
Devorah said earlier, peoplestart a podcast and they stop
because it's not fulfilling tothem.
Um, same thing withcommunities.
I've seen people startcommunities, but they're just

(01:00:13):
they're not a community person.
Uh, and that's not that's notright or wrong.
It's just you got to be honestwith yourself.
Do you want to provide aservice?
Do you want to provide aproduct, or do you want to
provide, you know, a um a mix ofthe two in the form of a
membership and be morecommunity?
So, Alexis, let me see.
I'm not sure if you're stillany any follow-up on that,
Alexis?

(01:00:33):
Looks like you're still here.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah, no, not really.
It that was really greatanswers.
I was just curious, you know,your experience with it.
I was really surprised to findout that community building is
harder.
I didn't think you would saythat, honestly.
So that was really good insightuh from your perspective on
that.

Josh Hall (01:00:53):
Yeah, I think anyone who tries it out finds it out
pretty quickly.
It's like, wow, this is yeah,it's uh because there's just so
many variables to community.
Where like when I when I builtup my web design business, it
wasn't a community of clients,it was just a list of clients
that was kind of individualservices to them.
Um, yeah, community is a wholenother ball game in the way of

(01:01:15):
yeah, building something that'sgoing to be a foundation at
last.
But you know, all of you guyshere are such a testament to
that.
Alexis, you told me somethingwhen we met up at a ProCon a few
months ago, which was uh youyou said like out of a lot of
the courses and programs you hadbeen through, you had mentioned
a distinction for what we havehere in Pro and my stuff is that

(01:01:36):
you felt like I genuinelycared.
And that really is truly there.
I mean, that you know, you guyscan sense if somebody do they
really care, or are they justtrying to make some money and
sell a course or a program?

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Definitely 100%.
I've been a part of so manycommunities back in the day,
even like before 2020, likebetween 2012 and 2020, I joined
so many um differentcommunities.
And most of the time you canjust tell that they just really
want to make what they want tomake and do what they can to

(01:02:11):
appease people, but you canreally tell the difference when
somebody like truly cares.
So I know that you love this somuch, but I know that you I
also know the love and affinityyou can have for what you do as
a web designer.
So I was also really curiousabout like, you know, which one
you felt.
So it's it's interesting to seethat you do love this more, you

(01:02:33):
know, and I can totally seethat because you're like a
people person, you know, so itmakes sense.
So that that makes a lot ofsense.

Josh Hall (01:02:39):
Yeah, but you're right, Alexis.
Like it is something that'shard to balance sometimes
because uh when I when I do getinto like design mode and
creation mode, it's a differentmuscle.
And I remember I have to remindmyself, like, I gotta show up
in pro, you know, at the veryleast, don't go 24 hours.
Um, um, so like when I wasdesigning webpresenterpro.com, I

(01:03:00):
was like, I mean, honestly,like I could have disappeared
for three weeks um because I wasjust in it.
Like I was just I was all I wasthinking about.
But I had to remind myself,gotta do a little coaching.
Just like I learned as a webdesigner, I'm working on a new
site, that's all I want to do.
But I gotta do maintenance, my,you know, my my hourly
reactionary time.
I gotta make sure everything'srunning with the business and

(01:03:20):
anything that needs to beattended to, do that.
So it's like the the the sameprocesses and muscles I built up
as a web designer stilltranslate to what I do now.
But um, yeah, it definitely,yeah, the the fulfillment of
like the care and loving it ishuge.
Um, but that translates to youguys too.
Like clients know when youreally care, they know when a

(01:03:42):
web designer cares about themversus when they feel like a
number on a spreadsheet.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
True, very true.

Josh Hall (01:03:48):
Gosh, that's good questions, guys.
I could talk to each of youindividually for over an hour,
but time is a son of a gun.
So let's get to some finalquestions here.
Thanks, Alexis, for that one.
Sandra, what does your wifethink of the community,
especially after meeting peopleat WDP Con?
She loves it.

(01:04:10):
Um it's it's fascinatingbecause my wife is wired almost
exactly different.
We talk about this often.
Uh, we just talked about itrecently about how, like, if she
were to build an onlinecommunity and do a podcast, she
would hate it.
And it's not because shedoesn't like people, she's just

(01:04:30):
it doesn't give her energy.
Like, she's not a she's not acommunity.
Uh what gives me energy doesnot give her energy.
She's she is a um anextroverted introvert.
So like she'll she'll she lovesto go to a party and loves to
meet people and haveconversations, but she's done
for like two to three days afterthat.

(01:04:51):
She needs to recover.
Whereas, like, when I leave abig old party, I'm like, let's
go to the next one, or like,let's do this again tomorrow.
Like, when can we meet up forbreakfast?
Um so that that's the a bigdifference.
But um, I think because sheknows me very well and she knows
now that this kind of thinglights me up, she's super happy

(01:05:11):
and proud of Pro.
And it's really important forher to meet people, like to, you
know, she can she seestestimonials and sees the stuff.
But um, the first time we allmet at WordCamp a few years ago,
two years ago now, um, she toldme, like, you know, I knew what
you did was was life-changingfor people, but I didn't really

(01:05:32):
I didn't really understand ituntil I got to hear the stories
and meet people.
And that was, you know, thatwas 5X with her meeting everyone
at this last event in thespring.
So yeah, let's run it back,guys.
She's gonna try to be there asmuch as possible.
So share your stories with mywife.
She she appreciates that.
Any follow-up on that, Sandra?

(01:05:53):
Not sure if Sandra's stillhere.
I know everyone had a long along session here, so if you
guys need to bounce, no problemat all.
Yeah, let me know if you haveany follow-up on that though,
Sandra.
If you're multitasking orSandra might be off for lunch,
who knows?
Might be selling three or fourvet websites and landing support

(01:06:14):
plans at the rate that she'sgoing.
I think Sandra's managing likeover 400 sites now with
maintenance plans.
Wild sauce.
So we'll see if Sandra comesback and has any follow-up on
that.
Uh Caleb, do you wear your WDPshirt all day on Tuesdays or do
you put it on right before thecall?

(01:06:34):
Yeah, it depends, Caleb.
Um, the good news is the ProSwag is extremely comfortable.
So it's a great time, guys.
Actually, I need to shoot.
I just realized I need tochange the logo.
We're copyrighted now.
There's a to-do item for me.
I gotta change the logo on allthe pro swag.
Dang it, why did I put the TMthere?
Why didn't I just do it withoutit?

(01:06:54):
All right, I gotta work onthat, but go get some pro swag
soon.
Um, it's all super comfortable,which helps because I actually
do want to wear it.
Um yeah, I don't wear it on allthe calls now.
It's kind of, you know,whatever.
Whatever is fitting for theday.
But I do often wear them tocoffee shops just because you
never know when you're gonna getthat lead.

(01:07:14):
Pandora, good question, Caleb.
Great to see you here.
How did you plan to stoprunning a web design company
interested in long in plan?
So um, it's probably worthwhileif you guys are curious or if
you hadn't listened to it or youwant to re-listen to it because
it was a long time ago.
But uh, I did an episode withEric on the entire process of

(01:07:38):
selling in transit and what thatlooked like leading up to it.
So I'd recommend checking thatout.
It's it's worthwhile for thoseof you who are interested in
selling your agency,potentially, not even if you're
interested in doing it now, buteventually, um, hopefully my
experience can help you.
But I did it, it was um it wassomething that was not planned

(01:08:01):
by any means.
And it came very quickly, quitehonestly, because in the spring
of 2020, when COVID hit, myonline courses just started
selling like hotcakes for lackof a better term.
And then I realized, like, wow,there's a huge opportunity to
do courses, you know, likereally do it and complete my set
of courses and really go forthis.
And I also just started lovingit more and more.

(01:08:23):
I mean, I had been a webdesigner for a decade at that
point.
And as I've said publicly, Iwas not burned out and I didn't
have any anticipation of justjumping ship, but I just loved
teaching way more.
And I got to the point I wasdoing one proposal, and I
remember being unexcited about a$4,000 proposal.
And I was just like, oh,whatever, if it goes cool, if

(01:08:44):
not.
And then I caught myself, I waslike, wow, if I'm not excited
about making four grand,something has shifted, something
has changed a little bit.
And it was like, I was moreexcited about selling a $97
course than a $4,000 website.
And that's when I knew, like,okay, I think I'm ready to take
this more seriously.
And because I just cannot runtwo businesses at the same time,

(01:09:08):
because I'm like hyper focusedon one thing at a time.
Um, I I knew like, okay, Ineeded to, you know, it was time
to do this.
So check out episode 53 of thepodcast to go deeper into that
if you're curious.
Alexia said the TM on these ProSwag shirts are gonna be uh

(01:09:28):
higher value now.
Oh, I'm gonna find them oneBay.
Alexia's gonna be selling herPro Swag on eBay.
All right, another revenuestream.
Um Brian said, not excitedabout four grand.
Right.
Well, and again, I mean, youknow, four grand in the course
world for sure, but it what ittruly was like uh, you know, you
you catch yourself.
You you do something for a longtime, and you do get to a point

(01:09:51):
where it just becomes un novel.
Um, and yes, I you know, Icould have absolutely kept on
going with my web designbusiness and offered something
new or got into growth plans orraised my rates or changed it
up, but because I was just morepassionate about teaching at
that point and started takingoff, it was like a new, exciting
thing that I wanted to go for.
Um, and thankfully I didbecause I could not have

(01:10:14):
launched Web Designer Pro anddone a full-time web design
agency.
So follow the gut, follow yourgut.
Great questions, guys.
All right, final call forquestions.
Jump them in the QA box if youhave any questions, and then
we'll do a final go-around hereto see if there's any final
thoughts.
Palette cleanser, if given thechoice, ask Ben.

(01:10:35):
And you can only choose one.
Are you ordering a hot dog or acorn dog?
Actual question because I uhI'd like to begin offering
accessibility boost for both mybrands.
Interesting.
Uh, I would run a few automatedaccessibility check to find
non-compliance, fix issues uhbefore after recording.
I'm thinking of pricing this at997.

(01:10:56):
What is your immediatereaction?
Well, to the first question,Ben, hot dog.
I prefer hot dog, just a goodold-fashioned hot dog in a
baseball game, which you canhave with me too when you come
to ProCon 2026.
Tickets available soon.
Um for the accessibility boost,I would try to keep it under
500.

(01:11:16):
I think a thousand dollar itfeels like a low-end offer, and
a thousand seems like a bit of aharder grab.
Um, if anything, maybe work upto that, Ben.
But let me know if you have anyfeedback on this.
But and I just know this fromselling SEO Boost.
$499 SEO boost were sellinglike hotcakes when I was doing

(01:11:40):
proposals.
So I think accessibility isgonna be an even tougher sell,
even at $500.
So you need to explain why it'sgonna be money saving.
I would keep it under $500 andthen work up to a thousand.
Ben, I'm not sure if you'restill here.
Let me know if you what youthink about that.

Ben Forred (01:12:01):
I am still here.
I don't know if you can hearme.
Yep, gotcha.
No, that I think that makessense.
I was kind of just likearbitrarily throwing it at a
thousand.
Uh there have been uh I justhad a conversation with somebody
in Kansas City because there'sevidently been uh kind of a
triad of law firms that havebeen going around suing small
businesses that haveinaccessible websites.

(01:12:24):
And so there's uh there's beena a couple of conversations I've
had with small business ownersthat were asking about it.
So I I uh I think it's maybegetting to be a hot topic, and I
was trying to get out ahead ofahead of that with uh with an
offering.
Um, but I I think you'reprobably right.
Starting sub 500 and working upto a thousand is probably the

(01:12:48):
best strategy for that sincepeople are unfamiliar.

Josh Hall (01:12:51):
Yeah, that's what I'd shoot for for you, Ben.
Yeah, just try try to get somesales at a lower end and then
you can work up to that.
All right, guys.
Well, thank you so much forjoining.
Um any final thoughts?
I'll leave this open as weclose this up.
Does anyone have anything theywant to say in honor of five
years of pro?
We still have a group of 19folks, so this could get wild,

(01:13:14):
but I want to open the floor up.
I'm in no rush.

Tamara Salchert (01:13:18):
Bria has PT in two hours, but I was just gonna
say, Josh, thank you so much forcreating Pro.
I like along with other peoplelistening to the podcast.
Like, I remember telling youthis forever ago when I jumped
on, but like I was so like downin the like dumps because of
when I started my business.
I'm like, there's no other webdesigners that understand, like,

(01:13:40):
you know, because you just it'slike it can be such a you know
very specific thing and to haveother people speak into it.
And then like I rememberlistening to your podcast and
like, oh my gosh, this is likethe best.
And it just spoke everythingthat I was struggling with with
contracts and grants and justlike all the things that you
touched on.
It was like a godsend.
So thank you again for likestarting the community.

(01:14:02):
It's it's been a blessing.

Josh Hall (01:14:03):
So oh well, thank you, Tamara.
You're a huge part of it.
I love seeing that you kind ofyou know found your micro group
within the community with Alexiaand Sandra and Megan and some
others.
So my gosh, I mean, yeah, thankyou.
You know, what you get into itis what you get out of it, and
you jumped right in.
So hats off to you as well.
I really appreciate that.

Lisa Williams (01:14:23):
Josh, I did all that.
I did all that, by the way.
But you have a special birthdaywish.
Hugsy says happy birthday.
Thank you, Hugsy.
If you know you know, becauseHugsy's been around since day
one, right, Lisa?
Hugsy, no, I just got Hugsy atthe Friends Experience when I

(01:14:43):
went.

Josh Hall (01:14:44):
Oh, okay.
I wasn't sure when you gotokay.

Oh, how this is Joey's Hugsy, his childhood um
and his childhood bestie.
Anyways, happy birthday, Josh.

Josh Hall (01:14:55):
Is that coming in the mail?
Because is that gonna go up onthe shelf?
I have this.
Lisa sent me a list a few yearsago, which I still have my arm.
If you send me a hugsy, we'llsee.
It'll end up in here somewhere.

Oh, he will, he will.
Oh my gosh.
Anyways, happy birthday.

Josh Hall (01:15:14):
Thanks, Lisa.
And again, you know, hugethanks to you for showing up
every day, every week forfreaking five years.
It's awesome.
The floor is open, guys.
If anyone wants to share any uha final word on on pro.

Marc Hyde (01:15:28):
I'll say, man, it's it's wild how it went from just
an online community that gave methe guts to go do something
cool, but like these are myfriends now.
Like, I mean, let's be honest,like Ben, um, we we gotta DM a
little bit more, but like, youknow, I find myself DMing with
Michelle and with Ben and likequestions for Lisa, and like
it's just one of these thingswhere it's like, like, it these
are my people, and like evenwhen Beth knew that pro con was

(01:15:50):
coming up, like it's already inthe calendar, like it's just
it's happening because you know,these are my people, these are
this is where I love to be, andyou know, it's a lonely world,
and we were made for community,and you just happen to
facilitate that, bro.
So thank you.

Josh Hall (01:16:03):
Oh, dude, Mark, well said, man.
Um, yeah, you told me last yearthat you know, this past event,
it was like it's wild goingfrom an online community to an
in-person community because it'sstill the people, but it just
changes dramatically.

Marc Hyde (01:16:18):
It's different because it's like I always joke
with people, it's like, I knowhow tall you are now.
Like, like for some reason,that's my my little capstone of
like, yeah, I know how tall youare.
Like, like you have like anupper body, like yeah.

Josh Hall (01:16:30):
Yeah, Mark was like, Oh my gosh, Josh, you have legs.
I had no idea.

Marc Hyde (01:16:33):
It's true, and I looked up.
I mean, I look it up ateverybody because I'm not that
tall, but you know, but still.

Josh Hall (01:16:39):
Yeah, no, that's so great, Mark.
Well, again, you know, you're ahuge part of it.
It's the it's the folks whoshow up with the energy and are
sharing what are working thatkeep this thing going.
So um hats off to you, man.
Uh, you are a you are aninspiration, which is why you're
you're in that space.
And uh look for me to do asuccess story with you here soon

(01:17:01):
if interested, Mark.

Marc Hyde (01:17:02):
Absolutely, bro.

Josh Hall (01:17:03):
Send me a DM.
Heck yeah, dude.
Michelle has something to say,so I'm listening.

Michelle Bourbonniere (01:17:09):
I'll go.
Um, I don't think that you guysunderstand that five years ago
when you started Web DesignerPro, I had barely started my
business, right?
Like I had been working forfriends at that point, um, and
just a couple people locally.
And so, like, really truly, WebDesigner Pro really kicked off
my whole business.
I mean, I got into SEO, Istarted doing all that stuff,

(01:17:29):
and like, same with Mark, like,these people are my friends now.
And like, I'm just asoloprinter, and I don't ever
intend to be more than asoloprinter.
And so, this is just so hugefor me because there are people
that want to hear me talk aboutSEO and like that is a rare
thing.
And so it's lovely to be here.
And I just to say, like, thishas really made my business in
the last five years.
And yeah, just can't wait forthe next five.

Josh Hall (01:17:50):
Remind me, Michelle.
Did you join the Facebook groupfirst and then get a can get
connected with Eric?

Yeah, I have the strangest little way.
Um, yes, I was part of yourFacebook group, and then Eric
actually was like, he put a postat one point and said, What do
you guys do for proofreading foryour websites?
And I was like, Well, like, ifI don't step up and say I
proofread websites, then like Ibetter, like I could just go out
of business right now.
And so that's how I originallygot connected with Eric was a

(01:18:16):
post on your in your group.
And then that's how I met you.

Josh Hall (01:18:20):
What's funny too is our first interaction was when I
sold in transit, and um, Ericwas like, Hey, um, you know, I'm
already working with a couplefolks.
I think I'll have them on thecall because they're gonna be
part of the the new in transitteam.
And I've talked about this onthe podcast before, but Michelle
has um a resting nice face, andwe all usually have some sort

(01:18:47):
of guy, you know, girls have theresting bitch face, guys have
the resting grump face.
But Michelle was just likesmiling and nodding, and I
remember being on the call beinglike, Who is this?
This seems like a great person.
And then she came through withher copy stuff and then started
talking to SEO, and I was like,Oh my gosh, uh, unicorn hidden
gym.
So to you, Michelle.

So both of you were so encouraging to me
when I was just gettingstarted.
Like, I like I really don'tthink I've ever told you this,
but like, really, you guys weresome of my first clients that
weren't people that like werevery good friends.
Um, so I had learned how to doit before I met you guys, but I
think I was too shy to go outthere and sell it to people I
didn't know.
And now, like, it's just normalthat I sell to people on the
internet.

(01:19:28):
Um, so it's just lovely.

Josh Hall (01:19:30):
Well, you are a huge, and everyone will back me up in
saying Michelle is a huge partof the DNA of Pro.
So thank you for thank you.
Uh, I know how much it's meantto you, but I mean it's you know
you've meant a lot to us too.
So thanks so much.
And um, speaking of Michelle,she will also be speaking at

(01:19:51):
ProCon 2026.
Uh, the date is announced,tickets will be dropping soon
for coaching tier members to getearly uh early access to
tickets.
So, Michelle, I can't wait tosee you in person again, round
two.
And Mark, I will tell you,heads up, Michelle is taller
than you might think.
So heads up.
Head literally heads up.

Marc Hyde (01:20:12):
I will I will bring my box to stand on.

Josh Hall (01:20:14):
We'll be ready.
Mark's gonna come platformshoes.

Marc Hyde (01:20:18):
Just grow the hair and get a couple inches, you
know.

Josh Hall (01:20:21):
We'll get Mark some platform shoes for ProCon 26.
Anyone else?
Any final thoughts before wehead off here?

Alexia Lynn (01:20:28):
Final thought.
Pros awesome, y'all are great.
I'm seeing all the graphics inthe the chat, and they are
lovely, making my heart happy.
Um, yeah, I remember when Icame, I came to Josh with that
idea and I was like, is this toocheesy?
And he's like, Nope, I love it.
I'm like, perfect.
So yay, yeah.
And everything about pro hasjust been amazing.
So I don't see myself everleaving.

(01:20:48):
Y'all are like the best.
So yay.

Josh Hall (01:20:51):
Heck yeah, guys.
Well, Lexia, thank you.
Thank you all for joiningtoday.
What a fun chat! Thank you forspending some couple hours here
for those of you who have hungaround to the end.
Um, this has been awesome.

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404 - Web Designer Pro turns 5 (Q&A with Josh & Members)

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