May 6, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of the podcast, Alora welcomes Miles Whitboyer, a distinguished wedding and commercial photographer based in Bentonville, Arkansas.
Renowned for his cinematic storytelling and authenticity, Miles shares his valuable insights on maintaining artistic integrity and providing exceptional client experiences. The discussion delves into Miles' journey in the photography industry, the importance of personal connections with clients, and the pitfalls of following influencer trends without genuine substance.
Miles emphasizes serving clients with depth and intention, drawing from real-life stories that underscore the lasting significance of wedding photography. Stay tuned as the conversation continues in a two-part series, with a follow-up episode on Miles' podcast featuring the host.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:23 Miles Whitboyer's Background
01:06 The Importance of Client Experience
03:35 Balancing Art and Business
06:28 The Power of Referrals
12:46 Finding Joy in Photography
22:05 The Importance of Skill Over Gear
23:41 Industry Trends and Influencer Culture
27:17 The Value of Wedding Photography
29:01 Reflections on the Photography Industry
30:07 Personal Growth and Lessons Learned
32:51 The Impact of COVID-19 on Photography
36:01 Looking Back and Moving Forward
41:35 Conclusion and Next Steps
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alora (00:00):
Welcome or welcome back to the podcast.
I have an amazing guest on withme.
His name is while MilesWhitboyer.
I don't know why I called youwild.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:07):
It's true, his name is Wiles.
Welcome, Wiles.
Alora (00:10):
We've already been bantering for like the past, I
don't know, five to 10 minutes.
So we decided to press recordand this is going to be more of
like a casual conversation mixedin with whatever style he's
vibing with.
So we're just going to dive in.
Okay.
So who is Miles?
He is a Bentonville, Arkansasbased wedding and commercial
photographer with a keen eye forcinematic storytelling.
(00:32):
Love that.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:33):
Yeah, let's go.
That sounds like I didn't writeit.
Alora (00:36):
written by yours truly.
Hey, named one of the best inthe world by looks like film.
That's kind of cool.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:41):
Yeah,
Alora (00:42):
You're a brand ambassador for Fujifilm, hold fast gear and
pick time, and you have apassion for sharing experiences
and encouraging photographersand an obsession with
authenticity and imagery.
So let's dive in Miles, welcometo the podcast.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:56):
let's go.
Did you know that moving forwardI think I'm going to always
write my own introductions?
That was one of the best I'veever had.
Turns out I'm fascinating.
Oh gosh, listen, here's, here'sthe like, the behind the scenes
here is that every listenerstake notes.
Every photographer that youlike, like their work or listen
(01:18):
to their podcasts or like aspireto be more like artistically or
business wise or whatever.
We all love talking about whatwe do and we are so awkward
talking about ourselves.
So, thanks for talking about meto me, because that was the most
uncomfortable 45 seconds of mymorning.
Alora (01:36):
You know, I think it's kind of hard to accept all that
you've done and like, it's justkind of weird.
Cause I don't know if you're thekind of personality like me, but
I just like to keep going.
I don't revel in the moment.
It's like, Oh, an award.
Cool.
Let me,
Miles Witt Boyer (01:49):
100%.
Alora (01:49):
And then onto the next.
But you know, every once in awhile, it's nice to kind of
reflect on what you've done andyou know, what you do for
others.
Miles Witt Boyer (01:59):
I think it's so much fun when you, like, can
stack up.
To be honest with you, I caremore about the relationships
like you mentioned.
Me working with Fujifilm andyou, I didn't put in there, and
let's be honest, I wrote thatstupid bio, but I didn't put in
there that I'm also an Imogenambassador, right?
And that I work with Pixel Youand that I have, like, those are
(02:19):
the things to me that I thinkare not only really relevant to
people that listen, but alsolike the awards are flattering,
but they're so fleeting.
And mostly because like, I'llsay this, Every time I take a
photo that the moment I snap it,I'm like, that one, that one's
an award winner.
I know that somewhere in theworld Jason Vincent shot 11 that
(02:41):
are going to beat me for thesame award.
So, like, you just can't, wecan't take ourselves too
seriously in this, right?
Like, as long as we're makingour couples, like, our clients
happy and our photos are,honoring their day, You know, I
mean great art is just fleeting.
So I don't know did I just getway too deep too quick Never
(03:02):
mind.
Sorry
Alora (03:03):
So good.
I mean, I feel like that's whatwe're here to talk about
actually is your
Miles Witt Boyer (03:08):
Mm hmm.
Alora (03:08):
client experience and why you are the go to person.
And I just, my rapid firequestions are actually not
affiliated with that, but I dowant to ask you one that you
came up with
Miles Witt Boyer (03:19):
Let's go.
Alora (03:20):
so
Miles Witt Boyer (03:21):
my gosh, you making me seem as though I wrote
a script for my own Pleaseinterview me on these things
Alora (03:27):
Just the one.
I came up with the rest of them,but I thought
Miles Witt Boyer (03:30):
Just the one.
Okay.
Yes,
Alora (03:31):
it's also
Miles Witt Boyer (03:32):
okay
Alora (03:32):
So,
Miles Witt Boyer (03:34):
Okay.
Number one.
Alora (03:35):
wish somebody would have given you early on about being
an artist and a business owner?
I do think that's good because Ifeel like they're two separate
identities that as aphotographer, you kind of have
to like balance them well andmake the two become one.
Miles Witt Boyer (03:51):
Yeah.
Heck yeah.
So I did write that question,but I actually wrote it to ask
you that question for what it'sworth.
Is now a good time though, whilewe still have everybody is now a
good time to admit that we're,we are actually going to do this
podcast in a two part.
Can I say that?
Can I tell all of your gueststhat?
So, yeah.
In just a few minutes, and by afew I mean in a lot of minutes,
(04:12):
when we get done talking aboutme, we're actually gonna switch
over and ask you these samequestions, and I bet your
answers are better.
But advice! I wish that somebodywould have told me that that
comparison is the thief of joy.
Alora (04:29):
Hmm.
All
Miles Witt Boyer (04:34):
before the business if you want the
business to have longevity.
And instead, I think what mostof our industry is doing right
now is selling these like 12step programs to your first
hundred thousand and then yourfirst quarter million and then
your first seven figures andyour first, and there's
(04:54):
something inherently wrong withthat because I think it's really
special actually that there areeducators out there that are
trying to help.
But a lot of times.
What I see is that photographersare still trying to figure out
who they are as artists
Alora (05:08):
and work
Miles Witt Boyer (05:08):
are trying to portray themselves as successful
business people.
Alora (05:12):
I appreciate
Miles Witt Boyer (05:13):
And
Alora (05:14):
it.
Great.
Miles Witt Boyer (05:14):
when you don't know who you are yet as an
artist, you have no idea whatthe value is of your art.
Alora (05:21):
a little bit of travel
Miles Witt Boyer (05:22):
And,
Alora (05:23):
really
Miles Witt Boyer (05:23):
so trying to like
Alora (05:24):
I'm actually
Miles Witt Boyer (05:25):
position yourself as worth a lot without
a concept of value is just a,it's a slippery slope.
And I think that's the reasonwhy most people in our industry
only make it a few years becauseit doesn't take a lot of talent
to line up a group ofbridesmaids and tell them to
fake laugh and get a beautifulphoto.
(05:46):
But it takes an incredibleamount of talent to line up year
after year of happy client andhave them refer you.
And those are two very differentconcepts.
So I wish somebody would havejust told me like, get out of
your own way and go createbeautiful art and like love on
people along the way.
And then make really wisedecisions with the pennies that
(06:08):
you're making before they turninto dollars.
Alora (06:12):
That's so good.
I feel like your emphasis andyour values about personal
connection.
I think that kind of like spillover into your business.
And so that makes so much sensebecause client experience is
your thing.
So I have a question for youactually off the cuff.
Would you say that like yourclients and couples, do they
like refer their friends to youor are they like consistently
(06:34):
coming back?
Do you also do their familiesand more but like they stay and
they also like do the marketingfor you.
Miles Witt Boyer (06:42):
Let's just be clear.
I didn't write that question.
This one was all yours.
Alora (06:45):
Yes.
It's
Miles Witt Boyer (06:46):
So congratulations.
Yes, this one is yours.
Yeah.
So I can trace back here's like,like, let me get like a really
detailed and in an answer tothat question.
So I have a whole like communityof clients in the tri state
area, like in New York NewJersey, Connecticut.
And throughout the course of thelast maybe 12 to 15 years, I've
(07:07):
probably shot maybe 40 weddingswith this group of people.
Alora (07:11):
Wow.
Miles Witt Boyer (07:13):
those weddings have been in Napa Valley, in
Turks and Caicos, in Iceland, inlike all over, all over the
country.
And I can trace all of thoseweddings.
Back to a single couple that weshot in Vermont.
Now, the cool thing is that mostof those weddings don't even
(07:33):
know the original couple.
But those client relationshipshave like created their own
family tree.
And so like we have this tree inNew England, right?
And then we have a tree in theSouth.
And,
Alora (07:47):
Facebook.
Miles Witt Boyer (07:49):
I live, it has maybe like, I call it more like
a forest, right?
But all the roots kind ofinterconnect.
And then we have sort of asimilar thing growing in the
Southwest right now.
And so yes, I see a lot ofclients come from referral.
But more than that, what I justsort of have a passion for is
you keep saying that like clientexperience is my thing, but I
(08:11):
have this.
I have this sort of passion forhelping photographers understand
that like every wedding you goto probably 90 percent or like
95 percent maybe of the peoplein the room will never see the
photos,
Alora (08:24):
Mm
Miles Witt Boyer (08:24):
at least not the full gallery.
Like they might see the, thecarousel that the bride posts,
right?
But they're not going to see thephotos, but you know what they
are going to see?
They're going to see thephotographer.
They may not see thephotography, but they're going
to see the photographer.
And so being referable has to bedeeper than just your work.
Like you have to be, you have tobe somebody that people want to
(08:48):
know.
And so we get most of ourreferrals from wedding planners
and from clients and from brandsof clients, but often it's just
people that are like, Hey.
You look like you were having somuch fun at that wedding.
We want you to come have fun atour wedding.
And I'm like, man, you want topay me to come enjoy myself with
a camera at your wedding.
(09:08):
Let's go.
Alora (09:10):
Yeah, I mean,
Miles Witt Boyer (09:11):
So I don't know if that answers, does that
answer your question a littlebit?
Alora (09:14):
I actually forgot my question, but that was a great
answer.
Miles Witt Boyer (09:18):
Well, I can rewrite it for you.
You asked if most of ourweddings come from referral.
And I'm sorry that that waslike, did I speak for too long?
I went on for too long.
Alora (09:26):
so very well said.
I can
Miles Witt Boyer (09:27):
Long winded.
Alora (09:28):
you have a passion about like what you do and your
clients and your couples.
And I think it all is kind oflike rooted in just.
your job, loving your work, and
Miles Witt Boyer (09:37):
Mm hmm.
Alora (09:39):
It's that simple, it seems like,
Miles Witt Boyer (09:41):
Yeah.
Alora (09:42):
ha
Miles Witt Boyer (09:43):
like hyper intentional.
Well, just be hyper intentional.
Like make your work time, yourwork time and be all in.
But then like make your familytime your family time and be all
in and you know, like I'm a, I'mkind of a, an avid runner and so
I'm, I'm a nut about like whenI'm not on a run, my phone is on
silent.
(10:03):
Like, I don't care if like.
I get a massive referral from aroyal wedding in England, right?
I'm like, I don't care.
I'm on a run right now.
That's not the hat that I'mwearing.
You know, like, but then whenI'm in business, like I'm all in
and and yeah, so I, I think I'mmore passionate about that.
Just like setting guardrails inour lives to where, like when
(10:26):
I'm on a podcast with you.
This is the only thing on mymind.
This is a hundred percent.
I'm all in and which makes iteasy because you're super cool
So like
Alora (10:36):
Stop.
Miles Witt Boyer (10:37):
like so
Alora (10:37):
ha.
Miles Witt Boyer (10:38):
far I won't stop you guys so she got back.
Can we brag?
I'm bragging on her.
She got back from wppi.
She's like playing with her hairright now If you can't see this
she got back from wppi like 15minutes ago In fact And yeah,
she was like right on time tothe minute for this
conversation, totally preparedgiven I wrote all the questions,
but that's fine.
And I mean, like, this is somuch fun for me because, like,
(11:01):
this is why we do this job,right?
Is to hang out with people thatwe see eye to eye with.
You were talking in our kind ofpre show banter, you were
talking about how cool it wasto, like, connect with friends.
And people probably that you'vejust been, like, looking forward
to being in a room with.
And finally getting to like,shake their hand.
Like, isn't that why we do this?
Like, that's, that's the coolstuff, right?
(11:24):
Like I jumped on a call theother day and I, I'll kiss and
tell, let's go.
I jumped on a call the other dayto be like, kind of announced to
the Imogen team as like, youknow, hey, this is Miles and
he's our newest guy, whatever.
Freaking Sam Hurd was in there!Like, come on,
Alora (11:45):
Yeah.
He's
Miles Witt Boyer (11:46):
right?
Like, I'm like looking through,I'm like, oh yeah, I know these
names.
Yeah, you and you, yeah, that'scool, awesome.
And then I get there and I wasjust like, my mouth hit the, I
was like, I'm sorry, do you knowwho you are?
So,
Alora (11:56):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (11:57):
anyway, that's the fun for me.
Alora (11:59):
I love it.
Yeah.
I met him in person and I waslike, Hey, same herd.
Like I'm a Laura.
I actually went to a workshopyou did in Detroit, like almost
10 years ago.
And he's like, there Chipotle?
I was like, yes, you guyscatered Chipotle.
It was a really good time atAirbnb.
Yeah.
So it was so surreal.
Miles Witt Boyer (12:15):
What if that's just his line?
What if he only gets Chipotle toevery workshop so that he can be
like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,the one with Chipotle.
Alora (12:22):
one with Chipotle,
Miles Witt Boyer (12:23):
Super smooth, by the way.
Well done, Sam.
Yeah?
Yeah, I get that.
Can we get this?
Can we get this episodesponsored by?
This episode's sponsored byChipotle.
Alora (12:34):
I would love to I, I don't know
Miles Witt Boyer (12:36):
Okay.
Alora (12:36):
that out.
Like those affiliate codes andstuff.
I had a question and I lost it.
Oh my gosh.
Oh yeah.
So what really inspired, like,have you always.
Has it always been this way likepassionate and artful and
intentional about yourrelationships and your work and
your couples or was there amoment where everything shifted
because I feel when somebody islike this so all in or nothing,
(12:58):
there was a reason there's astory behind it and so I'm
curious.
Miles Witt Boyer (13:03):
Yeah, I think it's more like a series of
moments, like, death by athousand paper cuts.
I mean, I've done this for along time.
Like a really, really long time.
And I've loved this job for along time.
I started realizing years agothat as my demographic was going
up, as I was working with higherand higher end weddings and
higher and higher end weddingvendors, my joy wasn't going up
(13:26):
with it.
And I didn't know how toreconcile those two things
because I knew I needed to makemore money for the work that I
was doing, and I knew that I wasgetting more valuable because
the work was getting better.
But I couldn't understand, whyam I not loving this more?
And then I was like, when it waslike, you know, just cute early
twenties that just want to sneakaway and they have like two
(13:48):
dimes to rub together, you know,why do I love that couple so
much?
But then the million dollarwedding at the art museum, those
couples drive me crazy.
And what I realized is thatthere was a posture problem with
me.
It wasn't them.
The couples are largely thesame.
It was me.
It was that in those situations,I felt like I needed to stand up
(14:11):
a little straighter and wear myRolex and like I was changing
who I was to try and fit aperspective of who I thought
that they wanted me to be.
Alora (14:22):
Oh.
I realized
Miles Witt Boyer (14:23):
Instead of that, what I realized in a hurry
was that there are couples outthere.
You just have to find them.
But there are couples out there
Alora (14:31):
that's
Miles Witt Boyer (14:31):
that are like
Alora (14:33):
I got to
Miles Witt Boyer (14:34):
so intentional and so story based and they
want,
Alora (14:38):
if
Miles Witt Boyer (14:38):
want the art and they want the fun of it and
they can afford thephotographer.
That has a really high level ofvalue in the market.
And it took me a long time tokind of like whittle through
that and realize that like myposture needed to shift.
And here was the biggest changewas when I realized that I am
(14:59):
not a product.
I'm a service.
Everything changed for me and Irealized that like I have to
serve like I have to give andI've got to just give well and
enroll in in situations where,you know, if somebody needs to
know how to bustle that dress,it's going to be me.
(15:21):
If somebody needs to be able tolike fix those false eyelashes,
it's going to be me.
If somebody needs to, you know,to like run down and, and grab
the flowers or make a quick callto find out where, you know,
when the band is going to beready or whatever.
Like if somebody needs to besacrificial in a moment and
serve, it's going to be me.
And what I realized from thatwas.
(15:44):
There are something reallyspecial that unit unites, I
guess, at least my couples inthe sense that they would rather
miss a photo and make a memorythan have a ton of photos with
no memories.
And and so it's, it was likefreeing and all of a sudden I
was like, Oh my gosh, I'm atthese massive events with lots
(16:07):
of zeros behind.
My fees and and I'm, and I'mlike, I don't know if you can
see me or not in this, but I, I,I'm a little bougie.
Like I I'll admit that, like I,you know, I'm in a custom tuxedo
and I feel good.
And I'm like, but I'm also justhaving fun with people.
Like I'm just hanging out andjust chilling.
(16:27):
And that's like, and I didn't, Idon't need to feel awkward.
Like I don't eat vendor meals ina back room.
You know, because people areembarrassed of me as the
photographer, like that's justnot who I'm going to be ever
again in my industry.
So I'm sitting, drinking aScotch with the bride's dad, you
know, and, and he's paying forthe Scotch and he's paying me to
(16:48):
be there.
And, you know, there's a levelof service that has to go into
that to get you there.
So anyway, I cannot wait to askyou that question because I feel
like that's probably the mostvaluable question that.
Yeah.
Can you go now?
I know you were on your podcast,but tell me, I want to know you
like,
Alora (17:05):
podcast.
It's
Miles Witt Boyer (17:08):
We can break the rules.
Alora (17:09):
only been
Miles Witt Boyer (17:10):
our, this is our show.
this is our show.
We can do anything we want.
Alora (17:15):
You guys
Miles Witt Boyer (17:16):
Um, Yeah.
Alora (17:21):
He's like, actually, can we leave?
Okay, wait, that was such a goodanswer though.
I mean, and it kind of makessense too, is like when you
start charging a certain pricebracket, imposter syndrome hits
like crazy.
And you're like wait a minute.
Like who am I to do this?
Let me dress like this.
I got to show that I have money.
So I'm going to wear a Rolex,like you said, and then you find
(17:42):
yourself not being thephotographer that they had
initially hired.
The one that they seen on thewebsite, the one they seen on
Instagram, the same thinghappened to me.
Like once you get to like fivefigures and above, it's like,
Oh, are celebrity clients.
Miles Witt Boyer (17:55):
Yeah.
Alora (17:56):
like, I can't wear my comfortable like tennis shoes
anymore.
Like my fancy black ones, youknow?
Yeah.
then you get to a point whereyou're just like, no, like they
hired me because they value meand my work.
And I'm just going to show upand give them that.
And it ends up being okay.
It's like half of that stuff islike giving yourself the drama
that nobody has said anythingabout.
(18:17):
And then you're like, Oh, I'mthe problem.
Like, it's just, it's me.
Miles Witt Boyer (18:22):
Yeah.
Well it's, and it's being soself serving in that moment,
right?
It's like you're making it aboutyou.
It's the problem that I have.
One of the reasons like for allthe podcasts that I'm on, I
really avoid all of the like brotographer podcasts.
Alora (18:34):
Stop.
Miles Witt Boyer (18:36):
I'm usually on like mostly female podcasts
because I'm like, I don't wantto talk about my camera settings
because it doesn't matter.
I don't want to talk about whatfocal length I put on it.
That's so dumb y'all.
And if you want to know thatstuff, like listeners and hear
me out for real, if you want toknow that stuff, just drop me a
(18:56):
DM.
I'm not gonna patronize you.
I'm not going to play some weirdgatekeeper card that says like,
Oh, you know, wouldn't you liketo know I'm just going to
respond back with my gear listand say this is literally what I
use.
There's nothing magical.
I'm not shooting some betacamera.
That's not on the market.
And I'm editing, there's likemy, my post process isn't, you
(19:18):
know, 16 hours per photo, mostof the time I show our couples
the photos on the back of mycamera because the difference
between the shot that I took andthe shot that I deliver is like
2%.
Alora (19:30):
Okay.
Miles Witt Boyer (19:31):
and so I want them to feel again, the idea
here is confidence in thephotographer.
Right?
Like to be able to stand up andsay like, Hey, everybody, like
we're hanging out with ourfriends and we can't wait for
you to meet Miles.
Like, that's the dream.
Like, that's the goal.
And, you know, some stuff goeswith that, I think, like, you
(19:52):
know, dressing respectfully forthe event goes with that, you
know, carrying yourselfrespectfully for the event goes
with that.
I should probably do caveats andsay, like, I'm nursing a scotch
for hours with the bride's dad,not taking tequila shots with
the bridesmaids.
Right.
Like big difference there.
Right.
Alora (20:09):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (20:11):
you know, like I, I take my professionalism
super seriously because mymortgage can't be paid on
Instagram followers and cloud.
So At some point in here, Igotta make some money and, and
my kids are hungry.
Y'all they are teenagers andthey are starving.
So we gotta make money, but likeI have two boys and they are,
(20:33):
gosh, they don't stop eating.
It's unreal.
Alora (20:36):
I heard.
Miles Witt Boyer (20:37):
So yeah, it's okay.
It's all right.
I'm going to make it throughthis.
Please send all food donationsto, can we set up a GoFundMe?
Chipotle.
Alora (20:47):
Chipotle feed
Miles Witt Boyer (20:47):
Anyway, so I'm going to burn that sponsorship
really quick and say that nobodyin my family really likes
Chipotle, so sorry.
I know there goes your affiliatecode.
It's okay.
just feels like There's just notenough flavor in it.
Alora (21:01):
Yeah.
I'm a Qdoba girl.
Cause I like the cheese.
So
Miles Witt Boyer (21:04):
Yes, right?
Okay, okay.
Mm hmm.
We just burned, we justswitched, we just switched
sponsors in the middle of,
Alora (21:12):
Insert Qdoba.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:13):
Awkward.
Alora (21:14):
I wish I could have like sound effects on here.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:16):
You can.
Alora (21:18):
For, I remember you said earlier, like if someone could
just DM you on Instagram and whydon't you just make one of those
like Amazon accounts where youcan just have like my gear bag.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:27):
Do.
I actually do.
Alora (21:29):
well then everybody
Miles Witt Boyer (21:30):
Yeah.
Alora (21:31):
lintry.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:33):
Yeah, I actually have that.
Again, I don't but it, but it'struly just because of, and, and
that changes a lot too, but it'struly just because of the fact
that it's like, I think there'sthis mysticism to cameras and
people probably assume that,like, for instance, because I'm
an ambassador for a cameracompany.
People, I think, assume thatit's like, I buy all of the
(21:56):
marketing bull that is fed, butI so don't y'all.
And they know that.
And if they get offended bythat, then they're not paying
attention.
Alora (22:04):
Yeah.
That's right.
Miles Witt Boyer (22:05):
I don't see a purpose in my work for me to
need a camera that can shoot 120shots per second with no
blackout.
so that eliminates multiplecameras off the market because
I'm like, that's just not goingto be who I am.
I'm not going to spray and praynow.
I know photographers that arevery creative in that, like they
take shots.
(22:25):
the most minute moments andthey're like, if I hadn't taken
77, 000 photos, I wouldn't havegotten that.
And I'm like, yeah, That's verytrue.
Alora (22:33):
Too many.
Miles Witt Boyer (22:33):
but I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna hang
my hat on, on, on the camera orthe flash or, or whatever.
At the end of the day, like, Igenuinely believe at this point
in my career, and this isn't, Ihope doesn't come across as like
a super arrogant statement, butI genuinely believe that I could
outshoot a lot of photographerson a wedding day with an iPhone.
(22:54):
Because I get access to photos,I get access to moments because
I see them coming, because I'veput in the work to just, like,
know that this stuff is comingright around the corner and
people trust me and, and so,like, that's the hard work just
getting your camera to your eyefast enough, that's, that's the
(23:14):
hard work, you know, so.
What camera it is, is less, Ithink, less important in
general.
Alora (23:21):
it's not the gear.
It's the artist.
I think that's like a hot takefor sure.
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (23:27):
Yeah well and, yeah.
Oh, let's go, okay.
Forgot that we were doing that.
Alora (23:33):
You're like, what questions?
Well, this one, I'm kind ofcurious personally.
That's why I asked it, but likeit's number four.
So we
Miles Witt Boyer (23:38):
Mm hmm.
Alora (23:39):
What's
Miles Witt Boyer (23:40):
Mm hmm.
Alora (23:41):
like ick right now in the industry?
Like something you're just like,Oh
Miles Witt Boyer (23:47):
I'm gonna offend so many people.
Alora (23:50):
no,
Miles Witt Boyer (23:51):
You skip to this one because you're
Alora (23:54):
spicy now.
Miles Witt Boyer (23:57):
No, let's go.
Okay, it's fine.
If you, here's the thing.
How about this?
If the moment I say this, youkind of identify in it as this,
then I would challenge you toget deeper about that.
Okay.
So what bothers me currentlyabout the industry is the entire
(24:18):
sector of our industry.
And I think it was on BenHartley's podcast a couple of
years ago.
I called the, the TheLabradoodle Society, but it's
like, the young kind ofinfluencer vibe that they picked
up a camera because it was cute.
And then they took a picturethat was cute.
(24:38):
And then cute people asked themto keep taking pictures that
were cute.
And then, but here's the thing,and I know I sound so, I'm not,
I really, I'm not trying tosound so like rude.
What icks me about that is notthat process.
That's fine.
That is completely fine.
Actually, there's a huge marketfor that stuff.
What icks me about it is,
Alora (24:57):
Silence.
Silence.
Miles Witt Boyer (25:08):
famous as a wedding photographer.
Educational course, and it's notso much that they haven't put in
the time though.
They haven't, but that it's allself serving.
It is all about them, right?
And so it's like, Hey, if youwant to be an influencer, like
me, not, not love on yourcouples, not create art for
(25:30):
them, not serve them, orunderstand the legacy value of
what you're creating, none ofthat stuff.
If you want to be an influencer,like me, here's the steps that I
took to become very rapidlyfamous
Alora (25:41):
Silence.
Miles Witt Boyer (25:45):
of clients that I like just sort of stepped
on along the way to make thathappen.
And it just, it kind of grossesme out just as like a posture
that I'm like,
Alora (25:54):
Silence.
Miles Witt Boyer (25:55):
like these photographers are getting really
very, like very famous.
You know, like it cracks me upsometimes I'll see somebody's
work and I'm like, Oh yeah,that's a, that's kind of a cool
shot.
I like that.
I'm like, Oh, that, you know,that photographer, like they'll
actually look kind of awesome.
Like I'll follow and then Iwon't see their work for six
months and then I'll click backover and I'm like, Oh, you have
172, 000 followers.
(26:15):
And I'm like, how, how on earthdid you do that?
oh, you've got the number threehighest trending podcast in
that.
You know what I mean?
And I'm like, of course you'rereleasing presets and an
educational platform.
I'm like, you've been aphotographer for 12 minutes.
So anyway, that's,
Alora (26:33):
so the influencer
Miles Witt Boyer (26:34):
my ick.
Alora (26:35):
and I hear you because I remember somebody was like you
can't shortcut like the hustle.
Like everybody has to do theirtime because the thing about
photography,
Miles Witt Boyer (26:45):
Mm hmm.
Alora (26:45):
you get better every year or a certain amount of wedding
shot.
It's not just like,
Miles Witt Boyer (26:50):
Yeah.
Alora (26:50):
at this level where I can charge this much.
And I just started 12 monthsago.
Like you actually have to put
Miles Witt Boyer (26:56):
Mm hmm.
Alora (26:57):
to create your unique craft, but then also.
Miles Witt Boyer (27:00):
Mm hmm.
Alora (27:01):
clients and your couples and I think that kind of goes
for the long game Like the onesthat are just here for the fame
It's not gonna last because thecouples talk, you know, the
reviews show
Miles Witt Boyer (27:13):
Yeah.
Yep.
Alora (27:14):
yeah I mean,
Miles Witt Boyer (27:15):
Yeah.
Alora (27:15):
yeah, I just I
Miles Witt Boyer (27:17):
Well, and like, I think I would challenge
people, like, who are youaspiring to be?
Like, there's a reason there'sonly one Jose Villa,
Alora (27:26):
Mm hmm.
Miles Witt Boyer (27:26):
right?
There's a reason.
Like, there's a reason there'sonly one Amy Leibovitz.
Alora (27:32):
hmm
Miles Witt Boyer (27:33):
You know, and she's had like a 40 year career,
50 year career, like she shotthe Paul McCartney, like those
people have put in the work, butI, I think that there's sort of
this is like getting reallydeep, but I'll say, I think that
art shows up in its most pure,most beautiful form, I think art
shows up in the suffering, likewhen you learn to suffer a
(27:57):
little bit, Like when it's hotand you continue to shoot, when
you're tired and you continue toshoot, when you don't exactly
vibe with the couple, but you'redoing this for them and you
continue to shoot like art rollsin.
can you imagine, this is a jumpto say this, but can you imagine
how uncomfortable Michelangelowas painting on his back for
years?
(28:18):
Like staring at the SistineChapel for years, you imagine
how awkward and uncomfortablethat was.
There is.
in the suffering and when allyou are is glitter and rainbows
and tongue clicks and hairtwists, then you miss it.
and it's like, I almost feel badfor you.
I feel bad for your clients, butI feel bad for you.
(28:39):
I want photographers togravitate into something that
they see as valuable.
Or frankly, to just move on andsay Hey, If what you want to be
is a content creator Then thatis actually a really cool super
vibrant super emerging industryand go do it But don't use
weddings to do it for you.
Alora (29:01):
Yeah, well, being a photographer is not what it was
a decade ago.
Like, I can't even, it's almostlike an influencer times a
hundred, you know?
So now when people are like, Oh,you're a
Miles Witt Boyer (29:12):
Yeah.
Alora (29:13):
Like back in the day, I was like, I'm a wedding
photographer.
They're like, Oh, that's cool.
Like, how's that
Miles Witt Boyer (29:17):
Awkward.
Yeah.
Why don't you have a real job?
Yes.
Alora (29:21):
literally.
Like, I remember when somebodywas like, no, one's going to pay
more than like a thousanddollars for a wedding
photographer.
And I was like, watch me.
Miles Witt Boyer (29:29):
Yeah.
I would have been like, are youkidding me?
Somebody is going to pay me athousand dollars.
Let's go.
Alora (29:33):
so much money, like my first 500, I couldn't believe
it.
I was like, this is,
Miles Witt Boyer (29:37):
Mm hmm.
Alora (29:38):
this is really good money, but like I think having
that balance of like beingcontent
Miles Witt Boyer (29:45):
Mm hmm.
Alora (29:46):
and then still not forgetting about your clients.
I feel like that seems to belike your thing.
It's like taking care of people,making sure that this was an
amazing experience because it islike, I mean, this is that
chapter of them together.
These are legacy images.
I still go back to my weddingimages and it's been almost 11
years.
So
Miles Witt Boyer (30:05):
Ooh, that makes me happy.
I love that.
Yeah.
I mentioned I had a meeting thismorning with a bride that I'm
shooting in a couple of weeksjust going over her schedule and
she made this comment to me,which is like, it's cool.
it's just about what everyphotographer wants to hear, but
I couldn't disagree more, whichis like.
You know, hey, there's reallyonly like 30 or 40 photos that
we really, really want.
And so we really want to makesure that we maximize that time
(30:27):
of just the two of us, right?
And I think I surprised her, notjust think, I know I surprised
her because she had tearsrunning down her face when I was
like, you're seeing it in such ashallow timeframe.
These photos are going toappreciate at such different
times.
So yes, In the next year, thosebeautiful photos of the two of
you walking through the artgallery are going to be, they're
(30:47):
going to be magic.
They're gonna be amazing.
I can't wait for you to havethose.
But in 20 years, when your dadpasses away,
Alora (30:54):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (30:55):
the photo of you dancing with your dad is
going to be the most importantthing to you in the world.
And if we don't put the sameamount of like care into those
photos as we do the ones thatare going to get us a lot of
likes in our reels, then whatare we doing this for?
And, and, you know, like if, youknow, God forbid, and this has
(31:18):
happened to me, I think, youknow, you were asking about
situations where like I just hadsort of enlightening moments,
but I shot a wedding years andyears ago, where the day after
the honeymoon, the groom was ina horrific car accident and is a
paraplegic.
And so the photos of themholding each other on their
(31:40):
wedding day are the only, that'sit.
Like they'll never stand again.
They'll never dance again.
They'll never take a walk again.
And like that is, it's bothheartbreaking.
And then, like I said, likethere's art in that suffering,
right?
Photos that they wouldn't haveeven appreciated before.
Now they see as like, soimportant.
(32:02):
And I don't know, I think that'swhere we have a unique
opportunity as creatives to showup and literally get paid.
To just love on them.
Alora (32:12):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (32:13):
like that's so cool.
So,
Alora (32:16):
Yeah
Miles Witt Boyer (32:16):
okay.
Hey, hot take here.
It's you, you better go throughat least one more question
because we're about to have toswitch over to my podcast
Alora (32:24):
like, I can't
Miles Witt Boyer (32:25):
and, oh my gosh, it's exhausting.
Trying to be entertaining onyour podcast.
Alora (32:32):
I think you're
Miles Witt Boyer (32:33):
Um, Yeah, well, now all I can think about
is Qdoba, so it's the cheese.
Alora (32:41):
Like, it is lunchtime.
I'm hungry just as much as youare.
Miles Witt Boyer (32:44):
Not in Vegas.
It is not lunchtime in LasVegas, which is where your body
is still set right now.
Alora (32:50):
yes.
Miles Witt Boyer (32:51):
know how many people, like, here, sidebar, how
many people wrote me, what isgoing, WPPI the last few years
has been kind of a ghost town.
I mean, that sounds bad.
I don't guys, I love you guys alot.
Like they're, they're, they'regreat people, but the numbers
have been dwindling and thesponsorships have been kind of
like lower and whatever.
So this year we sort of madethis intentional decision, like,
(33:11):
Hey, I've got a lot going on.
It's the big trips coming up.
I just don't have time for thisright now.
Also with all my free time, Icoach multiple soccer teams.
I just don't have time.
Like we, we got work to do.
Alora (33:22):
Impressive.
Miles Witt Boyer (33:23):
then every single person that holds a
camera on earth was texting mesaying like, where are you?
Las Vegas is going off.
What is happening?
Why?
Why are you the one loser?
So.
Alora (33:36):
I
Miles Witt Boyer (33:36):
It wasn't good this year.
Alora (33:37):
was wondering where you were.
I was like, am I going to meetMiles?
And Noelle was like, nope, he'snot coming.
I was like, Oh, like, he haslike soccer stuff.
I was like, Oh, soccer.
Is he, what?
That's all I
Miles Witt Boyer (33:48):
Yeah, soccer stuff.
I thought he had a real job.
Alora (33:52):
I was like, what?
Hey, it's good.
Like, I think you should, Imight come next year.
Miles Witt Boyer (33:55):
You should.
Well, we had also just made acouple of different sort of
brand jumps.
I just joined the Imogen teamwhich is really exciting, but a
part of that.
I had just stepped away fromanother relationship with
another brand.
I didn't want to twist theknife.
If I'm honest, it just didn'tseem like a great thing to do to
them to say like, Hey, I know Iwas recently on this team and
now I'm on that one.
(34:16):
That's just from an integrityperspective.
That didn't feel good.
Also, while everybody waspartying in Vegas, I was closing
a brand deal with Oberwerth,which is like exactly what I
needed to be doing because nowwe have the bougiest, fanciest
camera bags on earth.
And I got a whole box of them,and now I can just sit back and
be like, Hey, I'm rockingItalian leather, hand stitched
(34:37):
in Germany, and you are rockingnylon.
So,
Alora (34:41):
I'm at a point where I'm like,
Miles Witt Boyer (34:42):
yeah, it's like that.
Alora (34:43):
want it.
So I respect that.
Miles Witt Boyer (34:45):
Ooh, but this is like a different kind of
leather.
Like, I opened this thing up andit mooed at me.
It was fantastic.
Sorry, that was dark.
But seriously, these bags arephenomenal.
So that's, that's what I neededto be doing.
But I hear that it wasincredible and it makes me
happy.
It makes me happy thatphotographers are getting back
together.
Like that's important.
So I think I went the year afterthe first year, right after
(35:07):
COVID.
And it was so tragic.
Alora (35:09):
Ooh,
Miles Witt Boyer (35:10):
It was like, yeah, it was awkward.
It was like, let's have a photowalk eight feet away from each
other.
I'd love to lead that one.
Alora (35:20):
yeah, I this was my first event, like for photography, I
think since the pandemic.
And no, that's when Noelle wastelling me, she was like, Oh,
you got to come And I met a lotof really cool people, so next
year.
It's every year, Miles.
You can go next year.
No big deal.
There'll be another
Miles Witt Boyer (35:34):
Okay.
Yeah.
March, March 1st through 5th.
I already have image and alreadywrote me.
Scott was like, Hey, block yourdate.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
Alora (35:43):
He said, one time you can miss.
That's it.
Miles Witt Boyer (35:46):
Yep.
Alora (35:46):
more question and then we'll leave it.
And then I'll hop on yours.
So, man, I don't know.
These are really, really good.
I don't know which one to pick.
Miles Witt Boyer (35:56):
You're just saying that because you wrote
the rest of the questions.
Alora (35:59):
I write really good questions.
If you could go back in timefive years ago and your business
and your life, what would you do
Miles Witt Boyer (36:06):
Five years.
It's 2020.
You dropped me right in themiddle of the pandemic.
Cool.
If you could go back to thedarkest time in modern human
history,
Alora (36:17):
Maybe
Miles Witt Boyer (36:18):
I wouldn't have gotten the shot.
I'll say that.
Can we start with that?
I would not have gotten thePfizer vaccine.
Alora (36:24):
The recall is not good.
Miles.
Are you okay?
Miles Witt Boyer (36:28):
I would not have gotten the shot, everyone.
This just got hyper political.
So, let's see, five years agoOoh, man, I, this is, this is a
weird place to go with this andI don't want to be the guy
that's all like, I hope I'vealready demonstrated that
(36:49):
there's a little bit of like,stultriness to me.
I'm not all like rainbows andsuns.
The last five years haveprobably been the best five
years of my life.
Alora (36:58):
Wow.
Miles Witt Boyer (36:59):
I don't know that I would have changed much.
Like five years ago, my gymclosed.
I was sort of an avid, likeweightlifter, aesthetic vein.
That sounds bad.
I not really like crazy, butjust, I just spent a lot of time
with a trainer and it closed andI went for a run and it totally
(37:19):
changed my life.
A hundred percent changed mylife.
Initially just like one milebecause that was all I could do.
And then took my son for a mileand that was all we could do.
And that was, there's a longstory there, but that was
thousands of miles ago at thispoint.
And.
And my marriage five years agowas like, good, but then we got
locked to, into a house witheach other and had to learn how
(37:43):
to teach preschool to our, ourlittle guy and still be on
calls.
And I spent most of my time onFujifilm calls, just trying to.
Calm photographers down and tellthem like, hey, like this too
shall pass.
It's okay.
I firmed up relationships withJared in the last five years
that prior to that he was anemployee and now he's like my
(38:04):
very best friend and like, youknow, closest dude to me in the
world.
Yeah, I wouldn't change much inthe last five years.
Alora (38:11):
I love
Miles Witt Boyer (38:11):
Yeah.
I wish I had something like deepand brooding for you.
I think at times I would havetaken myself less seriously and
just given myself like moregrace to just like, hey, if you
want to go outside and get thosetennis shoes dirty.
Just go do it.
So sidebar, I'm kind of a nutabout making sure my shoes stay
(38:32):
clean.
if you didn't pick up on that.
So, I mean, I'm not the sneakerguy, the sneaker bro.
I wish I could be.
They're just so expensive, butI'm really cheap.
You didn't pick that up.
I love that.
I have in the same podcast,dropped the Rolex and then said
I won't buy expensive sneakers.
Guess I'm a bit of a paradoxthere.
(38:54):
So yeah.
Can we lead into us switchingover to my podcast though with
me asking you the same question?
Like, no, no, no, right now.
Let's go.
Alora (39:04):
Okay.
Miles Witt Boyer (39:05):
Yes, right this second.
And then we'll switch over.
Alora (39:07):
Okay.
What is the one I just askedyou?
Miles Witt Boyer (39:12):
You're gonna actually make me ask you?
You're so awkward.
Let's go.
Okay.
Dear Laura if you could go backinto, how did you say it?
Oh, wait.
Yes.
I have it written here.
Beautifully eloquently writtenby you.
If you could go back in timefive years ago, what would you
do differently?
Alora (39:27):
So many things.
Five years ago, I was pregnantwith my son and I was still
shooting weddings and that'swhen intimate weddings took off
honestly, was the first yearthat I ever went on vacation
while being a photographer ithonestly changed my life.
Was like such a workaholic.
(39:49):
I would book quadruple, tripleheaders, weddings back to back
kids crying as I leave on aSaturday.
And honestly, COVID taught methat it's actually okay to
relax, it's okay to take avacation, I don't know,
Miles Witt Boyer (40:04):
good.
Alora (40:06):
Without checking your email, delete Gmail from your
phone, do not disturb ispermanently on, everybody hates
that for me, all my friends andfamily, if they're listening,
they
Miles Witt Boyer (40:15):
I love it for you right now.
Alora (40:17):
I learned what peace really was.
Miles Witt Boyer (40:18):
Yeah,
Alora (40:19):
out person.
Yeah.
Burned out two years in a row.
And so if I could go back, Iprobably wouldn't change that.
But I would triple my prices.
Because I was at the same pricepoint for too long.
And that's why I did burnout.
So I probably would have to goback seven years and just be
like, Can you raise your prices,Allura?
And not think your business isgoing to burn to the ground if
(40:39):
you raise it So, yeah.
But I learned how to be a bettermom.
I learned how to cook like I, wewere a takeout family and now
I'm just
Miles Witt Boyer (40:47):
there you go.
Alora (40:48):
Yeah, so many things.
But yeah, I just, I feel like2020
Miles Witt Boyer (40:53):
I love
Alora (40:53):
everything for me and I regret nothing.
Miles Witt Boyer (40:57):
Good stuff.
Okay.
I like I can't wait I've got somany things I'm gonna lean in on
the surprise here Is that I'mnot gonna actually ask you any
of the questions you asked meBecause now I have so many
things I want to know
Alora (41:13):
be
Miles Witt Boyer (41:13):
like to hear an artist and like a business
woman that I really respect sayin the same sentence, basically
say that you had to get overlike the fear of scarcity to
become a better mom.
Like we could unpack that fordays
Alora (41:30):
Let's do it.
Miles Witt Boyer (41:30):
and, and like, that's the most relevant thing.
So, okay.
I'm going to let you, this isyour podcast.
I'm going to let you telleverybody what's about to
happen.
Alora (41:39):
So we are recording a part two on miles podcast and
these should both be going liveon the same day.
So there'll be a link in theshow notes to hop over and his.
And all of his links to connectand yeah, hear my side of the
story, which this is so fun.
It's his idea.
I've never done this before.
But I'll see you guys on milespodcast and thank you guys for
tuning in.
And I'll see you next week.
(42:00):
Bye.
Welcome or welcome back to the podcast.
I have an amazing guest on withme.
His name is while MilesWhitboyer.
I don't know why I called youwild.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:07):
It's true, his name is Wiles.
Welcome, Wiles.
Alora (00:10):
We've already been bantering for like the past, I
don't know, five to 10 minutes.
So we decided to press recordand this is going to be more of
like a casual conversation mixedin with whatever style he's
vibing with.
So we're just going to dive in.
Okay.
So who is Miles?
He is a Bentonville, Arkansasbased wedding and commercial
photographer with a keen eye forcinematic storytelling.
(00:32):
Love that.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:33):
Yeah, let's go.
That sounds like I didn't writeit.
Alora (00:36):
written by yours truly.
Hey, named one of the best inthe world by looks like film.
That's kind of cool.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:41):
Yeah,
Alora (00:42):
You're a brand ambassador for Fujifilm, hold fast gear and
pick time, and you have apassion for sharing experiences
and encouraging photographersand an obsession with
authenticity and imagery.
So let's dive in Miles, welcometo the podcast.
Miles Witt Boyer (00:56):
let's go.
Did you know that moving forwardI think I'm going to always
write my own introductions?
That was one of the best I'veever had.
Turns out I'm fascinating.
Oh gosh, listen, here's, here'sthe like, the behind the scenes
here is that every listenerstake notes.
Every photographer that youlike, like their work or listen
(01:18):
to their podcasts or like aspireto be more like artistically or
business wise or whatever.
We all love talking about whatwe do and we are so awkward
talking about ourselves.
So, thanks for talking about meto me, because that was the most
uncomfortable 45 seconds of mymorning.
Alora (01:36):
You know, I think it's kind of hard to accept all that
you've done and like, it's justkind of weird.
Cause I don't know if you're thekind of personality like me, but
I just like to keep going.
I don't revel in the moment.
It's like, Oh, an award.
Cool.
Let me,
Miles Witt Boyer (01:49):
100%.
Alora (01:49):
And then onto the next.
But you know, every once in awhile, it's nice to kind of
reflect on what you've done andyou know, what you do for
others.
Miles Witt Boyer (01:59):
I think it's so much fun when you, like, can
stack up.
To be honest with you, I caremore about the relationships
like you mentioned.
Me working with Fujifilm andyou, I didn't put in there, and
let's be honest, I wrote thatstupid bio, but I didn't put in
there that I'm also an Imogenambassador, right?
And that I work with Pixel Youand that I have, like, those are
(02:19):
the things to me that I thinkare not only really relevant to
people that listen, but alsolike the awards are flattering,
but they're so fleeting.
And mostly because like, I'llsay this, Every time I take a
photo that the moment I snap it,I'm like, that one, that one's
an award winner.
I know that somewhere in theworld Jason Vincent shot 11 that
(02:41):
are going to beat me for thesame award.
So, like, you just can't, wecan't take ourselves too
seriously in this, right?
Like, as long as we're makingour couples, like, our clients
happy and our photos are,honoring their day, You know, I
mean great art is just fleeting.
So I don't know did I just getway too deep too quick Never
(03:02):
mind.
Sorry
Alora (03:03):
So good.
I mean, I feel like that's whatwe're here to talk about
actually is your
Miles Witt Boyer (03:08):
Mm hmm.
Alora (03:08):
client experience and why you are the go to person.
And I just, my rapid firequestions are actually not
affiliated with that, but I dowant to ask you one that you
came up with
Miles Witt Boyer (03:19):
Let's go.
Alora (03:20):
so
Miles Witt Boyer (03:21):
my gosh, you making me seem as though I wrote
a script for my own Pleaseinterview me on these things
Alora (03:27):
Just the one.
I came up with the rest of them,but I thought
Miles Witt Boyer (03:30):
Just the one.
Okay.
Yes,
Alora (03:31):
it's also
Miles Witt Boyer (03:32):
okay
Alora (03:32):
So,
Miles Witt Boyer (03:34):
Okay.
Number one.
Alora (03:35):
wish somebody would have given you early on about being
an artist and a business owner?
I do think that's good because Ifeel like they're two separate
identities that as aphotographer, you kind of have
to like balance them well andmake the two become one.
Miles Witt Boyer (03:51):
Yeah.
Heck yeah.
So I did write that question,but I actually wrote it to ask
you that question for what it'sworth.
Is now a good time though, whilewe still have everybody is now a
good time to admit that we're,we are actually going to do this
podcast in a two part.
Can I say that?
Can I tell all of your gueststhat?
So, yeah.
In just a few minutes, and by afew I mean in a lot of minutes,
(04:12):
when we get done talking aboutme, we're actually gonna switch
over and ask you these samequestions, and I bet your
answers are better.
But advice! I wish that somebodywould have told me that that
comparison is the thief of joy.
Alora (04:29):
Hmm.
All
Miles Witt Boyer (04:34):
before the business if you want the
business to have longevity.
And instead, I think what mostof our industry is doing right
now is selling these like 12step programs to your first
hundred thousand and then yourfirst quarter million and then
your first seven figures andyour first, and there's
(04:54):
something inherently wrong withthat because I think it's really
special actually that there areeducators out there that are
trying to help.
But a lot of times.
What I see is that photographersare still trying to figure out
who they are as artists
Alora (05:08):
and work
Miles Witt Boyer (05:08):
are trying to portray themselves as successful
business people.
Alora (05:12):
I appreciate
Miles Witt Boyer (05:13):
And
Alora (05:14):
it.
Great.
Miles Witt Boyer (05:14):
when you don't know who you are yet as an
artist, you have no idea whatthe value is of your art.
Alora (05:21):
a little bit of travel
Miles Witt Boyer (05:22):
And,
Alora (05:23):
really
Miles Witt Boyer (05:23):
so trying to like
Alora (05:24):
I'm actually
Miles Witt Boyer (05:25):
position yourself as worth a lot without
a concept of value is just a,it's a slippery slope.
And I think that's the reasonwhy most people in our industry
only make it a few years becauseit doesn't take a lot of talent
to line up a group ofbridesmaids and tell them to
fake laugh and get a beautifulphoto.
(05:46):
But it takes an incredibleamount of talent to line up year
after year of happy client andhave them refer you.
And those are two very differentconcepts.
So I wish somebody would havejust told me like, get out of
your own way and go createbeautiful art and like love on
people along the way.
And then make really wisedecisions with the pennies that
(06:08):
you're making before they turninto dollars.
Alora (06:12):
That's so good.
I feel like your emphasis andyour values about personal
connection.
I think that kind of like spillover into your business.
And so that makes so much sensebecause client experience is
your thing.
So I have a question for youactually off the cuff.
Would you say that like yourclients and couples, do they
like refer their friends to youor are they like consistently
(06:34):
coming back?
Do you also do their familiesand more but like they stay and
they also like do the marketingfor you.
Miles Witt Boyer (06:42):
Let's just be clear.
I didn't write that question.
This one was all yours.
Alora (06:45):
Yes.
It's
Miles Witt Boyer (06:46):
So congratulations.
Yes, this one is yours.
Yeah.
So I can trace back here's like,like, let me get like a really
detailed and in an answer tothat question.
So I have a whole like communityof clients in the tri state
area, like in New York NewJersey, Connecticut.
And throughout the course of thelast maybe 12 to 15 years, I've
(07:07):
probably shot maybe 40 weddingswith this group of people.
Alora (07:11):
Wow.
Miles Witt Boyer (07:13):
those weddings have been in Napa Valley, in
Turks and Caicos, in Iceland, inlike all over, all over the
country.
And I can trace all of thoseweddings.
Back to a single couple that weshot in Vermont.
Now, the cool thing is that mostof those weddings don't even
(07:33):
know the original couple.
But those client relationshipshave like created their own
family tree.
And so like we have this tree inNew England, right?
And then we have a tree in theSouth.
And,
Alora (07:47):
Facebook.
Miles Witt Boyer (07:49):
I live, it has maybe like, I call it more like
a forest, right?
But all the roots kind ofinterconnect.
And then we have sort of asimilar thing growing in the
Southwest right now.
And so yes, I see a lot ofclients come from referral.
But more than that, what I justsort of have a passion for is
you keep saying that like clientexperience is my thing, but I
(08:11):
have this.
I have this sort of passion forhelping photographers understand
that like every wedding you goto probably 90 percent or like
95 percent maybe of the peoplein the room will never see the
photos,
Alora (08:24):
Mm
Miles Witt Boyer (08:24):
at least not the full gallery.
Like they might see the, thecarousel that the bride posts,
right?
But they're not going to see thephotos, but you know what they
are going to see?
They're going to see thephotographer.
They may not see thephotography, but they're going
to see the photographer.
And so being referable has to bedeeper than just your work.
Like you have to be, you have tobe somebody that people want to
(08:48):
know.
And so we get most of ourreferrals from wedding planners
and from clients and from brandsof clients, but often it's just
people that are like, Hey.
You look like you were having somuch fun at that wedding.
We want you to come have fun atour wedding.
And I'm like, man, you want topay me to come enjoy myself with
a camera at your wedding.
(09:08):
Let's go.
Alora (09:10):
Yeah, I mean,
Miles Witt Boyer (09:11):
So I don't know if that answers, does that
answer your question a littlebit?
Alora (09:14):
I actually forgot my question, but that was a great
answer.
Miles Witt Boyer (09:18):
Well, I can rewrite it for you.
You asked if most of ourweddings come from referral.
And I'm sorry that that waslike, did I speak for too long?
I went on for too long.
Alora (09:26):
so very well said.
I can
Miles Witt Boyer (09:27):
Long winded.
Alora (09:28):
you have a passion about like what you do and your
clients and your couples.
And I think it all is kind oflike rooted in just.
your job, loving your work, and
Miles Witt Boyer (09:37):
Mm hmm.
Alora (09:39):
It's that simple, it seems like,
Miles Witt Boyer (09:41):
Yeah.
Alora (09:42):
ha
Miles Witt Boyer (09:43):
like hyper intentional.
Well, just be hyper intentional.
Like make your work time, yourwork time and be all in.
But then like make your familytime your family time and be all
in and you know, like I'm a, I'mkind of a, an avid runner and so
I'm, I'm a nut about like whenI'm not on a run, my phone is on
silent.
(10:03):
Like, I don't care if like.
I get a massive referral from aroyal wedding in England, right?
I'm like, I don't care.
I'm on a run right now.
That's not the hat that I'mwearing.
You know, like, but then whenI'm in business, like I'm all in
and and yeah, so I, I think I'mmore passionate about that.
Just like setting guardrails inour lives to where, like when
(10:26):
I'm on a podcast with you.
This is the only thing on mymind.
This is a hundred percent.
I'm all in and which makes iteasy because you're super cool
So like
Alora (10:36):
Stop.
Miles Witt Boyer (10:37):
like so
Alora (10:37):
ha.
Miles Witt Boyer (10:38):
far I won't stop you guys so she got back.
Can we brag?
I'm bragging on her.
She got back from wppi.
She's like playing with her hairright now If you can't see this
she got back from wppi like 15minutes ago In fact And yeah,
she was like right on time tothe minute for this
conversation, totally preparedgiven I wrote all the questions,
but that's fine.
And I mean, like, this is somuch fun for me because, like,
(11:01):
this is why we do this job,right?
Is to hang out with people thatwe see eye to eye with.
You were talking in our kind ofpre show banter, you were
talking about how cool it wasto, like, connect with friends.
And people probably that you'vejust been, like, looking forward
to being in a room with.
And finally getting to like,shake their hand.
Like, isn't that why we do this?
Like, that's, that's the coolstuff, right?
(11:24):
Like I jumped on a call theother day and I, I'll kiss and
tell, let's go.
I jumped on a call the other dayto be like, kind of announced to
the Imogen team as like, youknow, hey, this is Miles and
he's our newest guy, whatever.
Freaking Sam Hurd was in there!Like, come on,
Alora (11:45):
Yeah.
He's
Miles Witt Boyer (11:46):
right?
Like, I'm like looking through,I'm like, oh yeah, I know these
names.
Yeah, you and you, yeah, that'scool, awesome.
And then I get there and I wasjust like, my mouth hit the, I
was like, I'm sorry, do you knowwho you are?
So,
Alora (11:56):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (11:57):
anyway, that's the fun for me.
Alora (11:59):
I love it.
Yeah.
I met him in person and I waslike, Hey, same herd.
Like I'm a Laura.
I actually went to a workshopyou did in Detroit, like almost
10 years ago.
And he's like, there Chipotle?
I was like, yes, you guyscatered Chipotle.
It was a really good time atAirbnb.
Yeah.
So it was so surreal.
Miles Witt Boyer (12:15):
What if that's just his line?
What if he only gets Chipotle toevery workshop so that he can be
like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,the one with Chipotle.
Alora (12:22):
one with Chipotle,
Miles Witt Boyer (12:23):
Super smooth, by the way.
Well done, Sam.
Yeah?
Yeah, I get that.
Can we get this?
Can we get this episodesponsored by?
This episode's sponsored byChipotle.
Alora (12:34):
I would love to I, I don't know
Miles Witt Boyer (12:36):
Okay.
Alora (12:36):
that out.
Like those affiliate codes andstuff.
I had a question and I lost it.
Oh my gosh.
Oh yeah.
So what really inspired, like,have you always.
Has it always been this way likepassionate and artful and
intentional about yourrelationships and your work and
your couples or was there amoment where everything shifted
because I feel when somebody islike this so all in or nothing,
(12:58):
there was a reason there's astory behind it and so I'm
curious.
Miles Witt Boyer (13:03):
Yeah, I think it's more like a series of
moments, like, death by athousand paper cuts.
I mean, I've done this for along time.
Like a really, really long time.
And I've loved this job for along time.
I started realizing years agothat as my demographic was going
up, as I was working with higherand higher end weddings and
higher and higher end weddingvendors, my joy wasn't going up
(13:26):
with it.
And I didn't know how toreconcile those two things
because I knew I needed to makemore money for the work that I
was doing, and I knew that I wasgetting more valuable because
the work was getting better.
But I couldn't understand, whyam I not loving this more?
And then I was like, when it waslike, you know, just cute early
twenties that just want to sneakaway and they have like two
(13:48):
dimes to rub together, you know,why do I love that couple so
much?
But then the million dollarwedding at the art museum, those
couples drive me crazy.
And what I realized is thatthere was a posture problem with
me.
It wasn't them.
The couples are largely thesame.
It was me.
It was that in those situations,I felt like I needed to stand up
(14:11):
a little straighter and wear myRolex and like I was changing
who I was to try and fit aperspective of who I thought
that they wanted me to be.
Alora (14:22):
Oh.
I realized
Miles Witt Boyer (14:23):
Instead of that, what I realized in a hurry
was that there are couples outthere.
You just have to find them.
But there are couples out there
Alora (14:31):
that's
Miles Witt Boyer (14:31):
that are like
Alora (14:33):
I got to
Miles Witt Boyer (14:34):
so intentional and so story based and they
want,
Alora (14:38):
if
Miles Witt Boyer (14:38):
want the art and they want the fun of it and
they can afford thephotographer.
That has a really high level ofvalue in the market.
And it took me a long time tokind of like whittle through
that and realize that like myposture needed to shift.
And here was the biggest changewas when I realized that I am
(14:59):
not a product.
I'm a service.
Everything changed for me and Irealized that like I have to
serve like I have to give andI've got to just give well and
enroll in in situations where,you know, if somebody needs to
know how to bustle that dress,it's going to be me.
(15:21):
If somebody needs to be able tolike fix those false eyelashes,
it's going to be me.
If somebody needs to, you know,to like run down and, and grab
the flowers or make a quick callto find out where, you know,
when the band is going to beready or whatever.
Like if somebody needs to besacrificial in a moment and
serve, it's going to be me.
And what I realized from thatwas.
(15:44):
There are something reallyspecial that unit unites, I
guess, at least my couples inthe sense that they would rather
miss a photo and make a memorythan have a ton of photos with
no memories.
And and so it's, it was likefreeing and all of a sudden I
was like, Oh my gosh, I'm atthese massive events with lots
(16:07):
of zeros behind.
My fees and and I'm, and I'mlike, I don't know if you can
see me or not in this, but I, I,I'm a little bougie.
Like I I'll admit that, like I,you know, I'm in a custom tuxedo
and I feel good.
And I'm like, but I'm also justhaving fun with people.
Like I'm just hanging out andjust chilling.
(16:27):
And that's like, and I didn't, Idon't need to feel awkward.
Like I don't eat vendor meals ina back room.
You know, because people areembarrassed of me as the
photographer, like that's justnot who I'm going to be ever
again in my industry.
So I'm sitting, drinking aScotch with the bride's dad, you
know, and, and he's paying forthe Scotch and he's paying me to
(16:48):
be there.
And, you know, there's a levelof service that has to go into
that to get you there.
So anyway, I cannot wait to askyou that question because I feel
like that's probably the mostvaluable question that.
Yeah.
Can you go now?
I know you were on your podcast,but tell me, I want to know you
like,
Alora (17:05):
podcast.
It's
Miles Witt Boyer (17:08):
We can break the rules.
Alora (17:09):
only been
Miles Witt Boyer (17:10):
our, this is our show.
this is our show.
We can do anything we want.
Alora (17:15):
You guys
Miles Witt Boyer (17:16):
Um, Yeah.
Alora (17:21):
He's like, actually, can we leave?
Okay, wait, that was such a goodanswer though.
I mean, and it kind of makessense too, is like when you
start charging a certain pricebracket, imposter syndrome hits
like crazy.
And you're like wait a minute.
Like who am I to do this?
Let me dress like this.
I got to show that I have money.
So I'm going to wear a Rolex,like you said, and then you find
(17:42):
yourself not being thephotographer that they had
initially hired.
The one that they seen on thewebsite, the one they seen on
Instagram, the same thinghappened to me.
Like once you get to like fivefigures and above, it's like,
Oh, are celebrity clients.
Miles Witt Boyer (17:55):
Yeah.
Alora (17:56):
like, I can't wear my comfortable like tennis shoes
anymore.
Like my fancy black ones, youknow?
Yeah.
then you get to a point whereyou're just like, no, like they
hired me because they value meand my work.
And I'm just going to show upand give them that.
And it ends up being okay.
It's like half of that stuff islike giving yourself the drama
that nobody has said anythingabout.
(18:17):
And then you're like, Oh, I'mthe problem.
Like, it's just, it's me.
Miles Witt Boyer (18:22):
Yeah.
Well it's, and it's being soself serving in that moment,
right?
It's like you're making it aboutyou.
It's the problem that I have.
One of the reasons like for allthe podcasts that I'm on, I
really avoid all of the like brotographer podcasts.
Alora (18:34):
Stop.
Miles Witt Boyer (18:36):
I'm usually on like mostly female podcasts
because I'm like, I don't wantto talk about my camera settings
because it doesn't matter.
I don't want to talk about whatfocal length I put on it.
That's so dumb y'all.
And if you want to know thatstuff, like listeners and hear
me out for real, if you want toknow that stuff, just drop me a
(18:56):
DM.
I'm not gonna patronize you.
I'm not going to play some weirdgatekeeper card that says like,
Oh, you know, wouldn't you liketo know I'm just going to
respond back with my gear listand say this is literally what I
use.
There's nothing magical.
I'm not shooting some betacamera.
That's not on the market.
And I'm editing, there's likemy, my post process isn't, you
(19:18):
know, 16 hours per photo, mostof the time I show our couples
the photos on the back of mycamera because the difference
between the shot that I took andthe shot that I deliver is like
2%.
Alora (19:30):
Okay.
Miles Witt Boyer (19:31):
and so I want them to feel again, the idea
here is confidence in thephotographer.
Right?
Like to be able to stand up andsay like, Hey, everybody, like
we're hanging out with ourfriends and we can't wait for
you to meet Miles.
Like, that's the dream.
Like, that's the goal.
And, you know, some stuff goeswith that, I think, like, you
(19:52):
know, dressing respectfully forthe event goes with that, you
know, carrying yourselfrespectfully for the event goes
with that.
I should probably do caveats andsay, like, I'm nursing a scotch
for hours with the bride's dad,not taking tequila shots with
the bridesmaids.
Right.
Like big difference there.
Right.
Alora (20:09):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (20:11):
you know, like I, I take my professionalism
super seriously because mymortgage can't be paid on
Instagram followers and cloud.
So At some point in here, Igotta make some money and, and
my kids are hungry.
Y'all they are teenagers andthey are starving.
So we gotta make money, but likeI have two boys and they are,
(20:33):
gosh, they don't stop eating.
It's unreal.
Alora (20:36):
I heard.
Miles Witt Boyer (20:37):
So yeah, it's okay.
It's all right.
I'm going to make it throughthis.
Please send all food donationsto, can we set up a GoFundMe?
Chipotle.
Alora (20:47):
Chipotle feed
Miles Witt Boyer (20:47):
Anyway, so I'm going to burn that sponsorship
really quick and say that nobodyin my family really likes
Chipotle, so sorry.
I know there goes your affiliatecode.
It's okay.
just feels like There's just notenough flavor in it.
Alora (21:01):
Yeah.
I'm a Qdoba girl.
Cause I like the cheese.
So
Miles Witt Boyer (21:04):
Yes, right?
Okay, okay.
Mm hmm.
We just burned, we justswitched, we just switched
sponsors in the middle of,
Alora (21:12):
Insert Qdoba.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:13):
Awkward.
Alora (21:14):
I wish I could have like sound effects on here.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:16):
You can.
Alora (21:18):
For, I remember you said earlier, like if someone could
just DM you on Instagram and whydon't you just make one of those
like Amazon accounts where youcan just have like my gear bag.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:27):
Do.
I actually do.
Alora (21:29):
well then everybody
Miles Witt Boyer (21:30):
Yeah.
Alora (21:31):
lintry.
Miles Witt Boyer (21:33):
Yeah, I actually have that.
Again, I don't but it, but it'struly just because of, and, and
that changes a lot too, but it'struly just because of the fact
that it's like, I think there'sthis mysticism to cameras and
people probably assume that,like, for instance, because I'm
an ambassador for a cameracompany.
People, I think, assume thatit's like, I buy all of the
(21:56):
marketing bull that is fed, butI so don't y'all.
And they know that.
And if they get offended bythat, then they're not paying
attention.
Alora (22:04):
Yeah.
That's right.
Miles Witt Boyer (22:05):
I don't see a purpose in my work for me to
need a camera that can shoot 120shots per second with no
blackout.
so that eliminates multiplecameras off the market because
I'm like, that's just not goingto be who I am.
I'm not going to spray and praynow.
I know photographers that arevery creative in that, like they
take shots.
(22:25):
the most minute moments andthey're like, if I hadn't taken
77, 000 photos, I wouldn't havegotten that.
And I'm like, yeah, That's verytrue.
Alora (22:33):
Too many.
Miles Witt Boyer (22:33):
but I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna hang
my hat on, on, on the camera orthe flash or, or whatever.
At the end of the day, like, Igenuinely believe at this point
in my career, and this isn't, Ihope doesn't come across as like
a super arrogant statement, butI genuinely believe that I could
outshoot a lot of photographerson a wedding day with an iPhone.
(22:54):
Because I get access to photos,I get access to moments because
I see them coming, because I'veput in the work to just, like,
know that this stuff is comingright around the corner and
people trust me and, and so,like, that's the hard work just
getting your camera to your eyefast enough, that's, that's the
(23:14):
hard work, you know, so.
What camera it is, is less, Ithink, less important in
general.
Alora (23:21):
it's not the gear.
It's the artist.
I think that's like a hot takefor sure.
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (23:27):
Yeah well and, yeah.
Oh, let's go, okay.
Forgot that we were doing that.
Alora (23:33):
You're like, what questions?
Well, this one, I'm kind ofcurious personally.
That's why I asked it, but likeit's number four.
So we
Miles Witt Boyer (23:38):
Mm hmm.
Alora (23:39):
What's
Miles Witt Boyer (23:40):
Mm hmm.
Alora (23:41):
like ick right now in the industry?
Like something you're just like,Oh
Miles Witt Boyer (23:47):
I'm gonna offend so many people.
Alora (23:50):
no,
Miles Witt Boyer (23:51):
You skip to this one because you're
Alora (23:54):
spicy now.
Miles Witt Boyer (23:57):
No, let's go.
Okay, it's fine.
If you, here's the thing.
How about this?
If the moment I say this, youkind of identify in it as this,
then I would challenge you toget deeper about that.
Okay.
So what bothers me currentlyabout the industry is the entire
(24:18):
sector of our industry.
And I think it was on BenHartley's podcast a couple of
years ago.
I called the, the TheLabradoodle Society, but it's
like, the young kind ofinfluencer vibe that they picked
up a camera because it was cute.
And then they took a picturethat was cute.
(24:38):
And then cute people asked themto keep taking pictures that
were cute.
And then, but here's the thing,and I know I sound so, I'm not,
I really, I'm not trying tosound so like rude.
What icks me about that is notthat process.
That's fine.
That is completely fine.
Actually, there's a huge marketfor that stuff.
What icks me about it is,
Alora (24:57):
Silence.
Silence.
Miles Witt Boyer (25:08):
famous as a wedding photographer.
Educational course, and it's notso much that they haven't put in
the time though.
They haven't, but that it's allself serving.
It is all about them, right?
And so it's like, Hey, if youwant to be an influencer, like
me, not, not love on yourcouples, not create art for
(25:30):
them, not serve them, orunderstand the legacy value of
what you're creating, none ofthat stuff.
If you want to be an influencer,like me, here's the steps that I
took to become very rapidlyfamous
Alora (25:41):
Silence.
Miles Witt Boyer (25:45):
of clients that I like just sort of stepped
on along the way to make thathappen.
And it just, it kind of grossesme out just as like a posture
that I'm like,
Alora (25:54):
Silence.
Miles Witt Boyer (25:55):
like these photographers are getting really
very, like very famous.
You know, like it cracks me upsometimes I'll see somebody's
work and I'm like, Oh yeah,that's a, that's kind of a cool
shot.
I like that.
I'm like, Oh, that, you know,that photographer, like they'll
actually look kind of awesome.
Like I'll follow and then Iwon't see their work for six
months and then I'll click backover and I'm like, Oh, you have
172, 000 followers.
(26:15):
And I'm like, how, how on earthdid you do that?
oh, you've got the number threehighest trending podcast in
that.
You know what I mean?
And I'm like, of course you'rereleasing presets and an
educational platform.
I'm like, you've been aphotographer for 12 minutes.
So anyway, that's,
Alora (26:33):
so the influencer
Miles Witt Boyer (26:34):
my ick.
Alora (26:35):
and I hear you because I remember somebody was like you
can't shortcut like the hustle.
Like everybody has to do theirtime because the thing about
photography,
Miles Witt Boyer (26:45):
Mm hmm.
Alora (26:45):
you get better every year or a certain amount of wedding
shot.
It's not just like,
Miles Witt Boyer (26:50):
Yeah.
Alora (26:50):
at this level where I can charge this much.
And I just started 12 monthsago.
Like you actually have to put
Miles Witt Boyer (26:56):
Mm hmm.
Alora (26:57):
to create your unique craft, but then also.
Miles Witt Boyer (27:00):
Mm hmm.
Alora (27:01):
clients and your couples and I think that kind of goes
for the long game Like the onesthat are just here for the fame
It's not gonna last because thecouples talk, you know, the
reviews show
Miles Witt Boyer (27:13):
Yeah.
Yep.
Alora (27:14):
yeah I mean,
Miles Witt Boyer (27:15):
Yeah.
Alora (27:15):
yeah, I just I
Miles Witt Boyer (27:17):
Well, and like, I think I would challenge
people, like, who are youaspiring to be?
Like, there's a reason there'sonly one Jose Villa,
Alora (27:26):
Mm hmm.
Miles Witt Boyer (27:26):
right?
There's a reason.
Like, there's a reason there'sonly one Amy Leibovitz.
Alora (27:32):
hmm
Miles Witt Boyer (27:33):
You know, and she's had like a 40 year career,
50 year career, like she shotthe Paul McCartney, like those
people have put in the work, butI, I think that there's sort of
this is like getting reallydeep, but I'll say, I think that
art shows up in its most pure,most beautiful form, I think art
shows up in the suffering, likewhen you learn to suffer a
(27:57):
little bit, Like when it's hotand you continue to shoot, when
you're tired and you continue toshoot, when you don't exactly
vibe with the couple, but you'redoing this for them and you
continue to shoot like art rollsin.
can you imagine, this is a jumpto say this, but can you imagine
how uncomfortable Michelangelowas painting on his back for
years?
(28:18):
Like staring at the SistineChapel for years, you imagine
how awkward and uncomfortablethat was.
There is.
in the suffering and when allyou are is glitter and rainbows
and tongue clicks and hairtwists, then you miss it.
and it's like, I almost feel badfor you.
I feel bad for your clients, butI feel bad for you.
(28:39):
I want photographers togravitate into something that
they see as valuable.
Or frankly, to just move on andsay Hey, If what you want to be
is a content creator Then thatis actually a really cool super
vibrant super emerging industryand go do it But don't use
weddings to do it for you.
Alora (29:01):
Yeah, well, being a photographer is not what it was
a decade ago.
Like, I can't even, it's almostlike an influencer times a
hundred, you know?
So now when people are like, Oh,you're a
Miles Witt Boyer (29:12):
Yeah.
Alora (29:13):
Like back in the day, I was like, I'm a wedding
photographer.
They're like, Oh, that's cool.
Like, how's that
Miles Witt Boyer (29:17):
Awkward.
Yeah.
Why don't you have a real job?
Yes.
Alora (29:21):
literally.
Like, I remember when somebodywas like, no, one's going to pay
more than like a thousanddollars for a wedding
photographer.
And I was like, watch me.
Miles Witt Boyer (29:29):
Yeah.
I would have been like, are youkidding me?
Somebody is going to pay me athousand dollars.
Let's go.
Alora (29:33):
so much money, like my first 500, I couldn't believe
it.
I was like, this is,
Miles Witt Boyer (29:37):
Mm hmm.
Alora (29:38):
this is really good money, but like I think having
that balance of like beingcontent
Miles Witt Boyer (29:45):
Mm hmm.
Alora (29:46):
and then still not forgetting about your clients.
I feel like that seems to belike your thing.
It's like taking care of people,making sure that this was an
amazing experience because it islike, I mean, this is that
chapter of them together.
These are legacy images.
I still go back to my weddingimages and it's been almost 11
years.
So
Miles Witt Boyer (30:05):
Ooh, that makes me happy.
I love that.
Yeah.
I mentioned I had a meeting thismorning with a bride that I'm
shooting in a couple of weeksjust going over her schedule and
she made this comment to me,which is like, it's cool.
it's just about what everyphotographer wants to hear, but
I couldn't disagree more, whichis like.
You know, hey, there's reallyonly like 30 or 40 photos that
we really, really want.
And so we really want to makesure that we maximize that time
(30:27):
of just the two of us, right?
And I think I surprised her, notjust think, I know I surprised
her because she had tearsrunning down her face when I was
like, you're seeing it in such ashallow timeframe.
These photos are going toappreciate at such different
times.
So yes, In the next year, thosebeautiful photos of the two of
you walking through the artgallery are going to be, they're
(30:47):
going to be magic.
They're gonna be amazing.
I can't wait for you to havethose.
But in 20 years, when your dadpasses away,
Alora (30:54):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (30:55):
the photo of you dancing with your dad is
going to be the most importantthing to you in the world.
And if we don't put the sameamount of like care into those
photos as we do the ones thatare going to get us a lot of
likes in our reels, then whatare we doing this for?
And, and, you know, like if, youknow, God forbid, and this has
(31:18):
happened to me, I think, youknow, you were asking about
situations where like I just hadsort of enlightening moments,
but I shot a wedding years andyears ago, where the day after
the honeymoon, the groom was ina horrific car accident and is a
paraplegic.
And so the photos of themholding each other on their
(31:40):
wedding day are the only, that'sit.
Like they'll never stand again.
They'll never dance again.
They'll never take a walk again.
And like that is, it's bothheartbreaking.
And then, like I said, likethere's art in that suffering,
right?
Photos that they wouldn't haveeven appreciated before.
Now they see as like, soimportant.
(32:02):
And I don't know, I think that'swhere we have a unique
opportunity as creatives to showup and literally get paid.
To just love on them.
Alora (32:12):
Yeah.
Miles Witt Boyer (32:13):
like that's so cool.
So,
Alora (32:16):
Yeah
Miles Witt Boyer (32:16):
okay.
Hey, hot take here.
It's you, you better go throughat least one more question
because we're about to have toswitch over to my podcast
Alora (32:24):
like, I can't
Miles Witt Boyer (32:25):
and, oh my gosh, it's exhausting.
Trying to be entertaining onyour podcast.
Alora (32:32):
I think you're
Miles Witt Boyer (32:33):
Um, Yeah, well, now all I can think about
is Qdoba, so it's the cheese.
Alora (32:41):
Like, it is lunchtime.
I'm hungry just as much as youare.
Miles Witt Boyer (32:44):
Not in Vegas.
It is not lunchtime in LasVegas, which is where your body
is still set right now.
Alora (32:50):
yes.
Miles Witt Boyer (32:51):
know how many people, like, here, sidebar, how
many people wrote me, what isgoing, WPPI the last few years
has been kind of a ghost town.
I mean, that sounds bad.
I don't guys, I love you guys alot.
Like they're, they're, they'regreat people, but the numbers
have been dwindling and thesponsorships have been kind of
like lower and whatever.
So this year we sort of madethis intentional decision, like,
(33:11):
Hey, I've got a lot going on.
It's the big trips coming up.
I just don't have time for thisright now.
Also with all my free time, Icoach multiple soccer teams.
I just don't have time.
Like we, we got work to do.
Alora (33:22):
Impressive.
Miles Witt Boyer (33:23):
then every single person that holds a
camera on earth was texting mesaying like, where are you?
Las Vegas is going off.
What is happening?
Why?
Why are you the one loser?
So.
Alora (33:36):
I
Miles Witt Boyer (33:36):
It wasn't good this year.
Alora (33:37):
was wondering where you were.
I was like, am I going to meetMiles?
And Noelle was like, nope, he'snot coming.
I was like, Oh, like, he haslike soccer stuff.
I was like, Oh, soccer.
Is he, what?
That's all I
Miles Witt Boyer (33:48):
Yeah, soccer stuff.
I thought he had a real job.
Alora (33:52):
I was like, what?
Hey, it's good.
Like, I think you should, Imight come next year.
Miles Witt Boyer (33:55):
You should.
Well, we had also just made acouple of different sort of
brand jumps.
I just joined the Imogen teamwhich is really exciting, but a
part of that.
I had just stepped away fromanother relationship with
another brand.
I didn't want to twist theknife.
If I'm honest, it just didn'tseem like a great thing to do to
them to say like, Hey, I know Iwas recently on this team and
now I'm on that one.
(34:16):
That's just from an integrityperspective.
That didn't feel good.
Also, while everybody waspartying in Vegas, I was closing
a brand deal with Oberwerth,which is like exactly what I
needed to be doing because nowwe have the bougiest, fanciest
camera bags on earth.
And I got a whole box of them,and now I can just sit back and
be like, Hey, I'm rockingItalian leather, hand stitched
(34:37):
in Germany, and you are rockingnylon.
So,
Alora (34:41):
I'm at a point where I'm like,
Miles Witt Boyer (34:42):
yeah, it's like that.
Alora (34:43):
want it.
So I respect that.
Miles Witt Boyer (34:45):
Ooh, but this is like a different kind of
leather.
Like, I opened this thing up andit mooed at me.
It was fantastic.
Sorry, that was dark.
But seriously, these bags arephenomenal.
So that's, that's what I neededto be doing.
But I hear that it wasincredible and it makes me
happy.
It makes me happy thatphotographers are getting back
together.
Like that's important.
So I think I went the year afterthe first year, right after
(35:07):
COVID.
And it was so tragic.
Alora (35:09):
Ooh,
Miles Witt Boyer (35:10):
It was like, yeah, it was awkward.
It was like, let's have a photowalk eight feet away from each
other.
I'd love to lead that one.
Alora (35:20):
yeah, I this was my first event, like for photography, I
think since the pandemic.
And no, that's when Noelle wastelling me, she was like, Oh,
you got to come And I met a lotof really cool people, so next
year.
It's every year, Miles.
You can go next year.
No big deal.
There'll be another
Miles Witt Boyer (35:34):
Okay.
Yeah.
March, March 1st through 5th.
I already have image and alreadywrote me.
Scott was like, Hey, block yourdate.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
Alora (35:43):
He said, one time you can miss.
That's it.
Miles Witt Boyer (35:46):
Yep.
Alora (35:46):
more question and then we'll leave it.
And then I'll hop on yours.
So, man, I don't know.
These are really, really good.
I don't know which one to pick.
Miles Witt Boyer (35:56):
You're just saying that because you wrote
the rest of the questions.
Alora (35:59):
I write really good questions.
If you could go back in timefive years ago and your business
and your life, what would you do
Miles Witt Boyer (36:06):
Five years.
It's 2020.
You dropped me right in themiddle of the pandemic.
Cool.
If you could go back to thedarkest time in modern human
history,
Alora (36:17):
Maybe
Miles Witt Boyer (36:18):
I wouldn't have gotten the shot.
I'll say that.
Can we start with that?
I would not have gotten thePfizer vaccine.
Alora (36:24):
The recall is not good.
Miles.
Are you okay?
Miles Witt Boyer (36:28):
I would not have gotten the shot, everyone.
This just got hyper political.
So, let's see, five years agoOoh, man, I, this is, this is a
weird place to go with this andI don't want to be the guy
that's all like, I hope I'vealready demonstrated that
(36:49):
there's a little bit of like,stultriness to me.
I'm not all like rainbows andsuns.
The last five years haveprobably been the best five
years of my life.
Alora (36:58):
Wow.
Miles Witt Boyer (36:59):
I don't know that I would have changed much.
Like five years ago, my gymclosed.
I was sort of an avid, likeweightlifter, aesthetic vein.
That sounds bad.
I not really like crazy, butjust, I just spent a lot of time
with a trainer and it closed andI went for a run and it totally
(37:19):
changed my life.
A hundred percent changed mylife.
Initially just like one milebecause that was all I could do.
And then took my son for a mileand that was all we could do.
And that was, there's a longstory there, but that was
thousands of miles ago at thispoint.
And.
And my marriage five years agowas like, good, but then we got
locked to, into a house witheach other and had to learn how
(37:43):
to teach preschool to our, ourlittle guy and still be on
calls.
And I spent most of my time onFujifilm calls, just trying to.
Calm photographers down and tellthem like, hey, like this too
shall pass.
It's okay.
I firmed up relationships withJared in the last five years
that prior to that he was anemployee and now he's like my
(38:04):
very best friend and like, youknow, closest dude to me in the
world.
Yeah, I wouldn't change much inthe last five years.
Alora (38:11):
I love
Miles Witt Boyer (38:11):
Yeah.
I wish I had something like deepand brooding for you.
I think at times I would havetaken myself less seriously and
just given myself like moregrace to just like, hey, if you
want to go outside and get thosetennis shoes dirty.
Just go do it.
So sidebar, I'm kind of a nutabout making sure my shoes stay
(38:32):
clean.
if you didn't pick up on that.
So, I mean, I'm not the sneakerguy, the sneaker bro.
I wish I could be.
They're just so expensive, butI'm really cheap.
You didn't pick that up.
I love that.
I have in the same podcast,dropped the Rolex and then said
I won't buy expensive sneakers.
Guess I'm a bit of a paradoxthere.
(38:54):
So yeah.
Can we lead into us switchingover to my podcast though with
me asking you the same question?
Like, no, no, no, right now.
Let's go.
Alora (39:04):
Okay.
Miles Witt Boyer (39:05):
Yes, right this second.
And then we'll switch over.
Alora (39:07):
Okay.
What is the one I just askedyou?
Miles Witt Boyer (39:12):
You're gonna actually make me ask you?
You're so awkward.
Let's go.
Okay.
Dear Laura if you could go backinto, how did you say it?
Oh, wait.
Yes.
I have it written here.
Beautifully eloquently writtenby you.
If you could go back in timefive years ago, what would you
do differently?
Alora (39:27):
So many things.
Five years ago, I was pregnantwith my son and I was still
shooting weddings and that'swhen intimate weddings took off
honestly, was the first yearthat I ever went on vacation
while being a photographer ithonestly changed my life.
Was like such a workaholic.
(39:49):
I would book quadruple, tripleheaders, weddings back to back
kids crying as I leave on aSaturday.
And honestly, COVID taught methat it's actually okay to
relax, it's okay to take avacation, I don't know,
Miles Witt Boyer (40:04):
good.
Alora (40:06):
Without checking your email, delete Gmail from your
phone, do not disturb ispermanently on, everybody hates
that for me, all my friends andfamily, if they're listening,
they
Miles Witt Boyer (40:15):
I love it for you right now.
Alora (40:17):
I learned what peace really was.
Miles Witt Boyer (40:18):
Yeah,
Alora (40:19):
out person.
Yeah.
Burned out two years in a row.
And so if I could go back, Iprobably wouldn't change that.
But I would triple my prices.
Because I was at the same pricepoint for too long.
And that's why I did burnout.
So I probably would have to goback seven years and just be
like, Can you raise your prices,Allura?
And not think your business isgoing to burn to the ground if
(40:39):
you raise it So, yeah.
But I learned how to be a bettermom.
I learned how to cook like I, wewere a takeout family and now
I'm just
Miles Witt Boyer (40:47):
there you go.
Alora (40:48):
Yeah, so many things.
But yeah, I just, I feel like2020
Miles Witt Boyer (40:53):
I love
Alora (40:53):
everything for me and I regret nothing.
Miles Witt Boyer (40:57):
Good stuff.
Okay.
I like I can't wait I've got somany things I'm gonna lean in on
the surprise here Is that I'mnot gonna actually ask you any
of the questions you asked meBecause now I have so many
things I want to know
Alora (41:13):
be
Miles Witt Boyer (41:13):
like to hear an artist and like a business
woman that I really respect sayin the same sentence, basically
say that you had to get overlike the fear of scarcity to
become a better mom.
Like we could unpack that fordays
Alora (41:30):
Let's do it.
Miles Witt Boyer (41:30):
and, and like, that's the most relevant thing.
So, okay.
I'm going to let you, this isyour podcast.
I'm going to let you telleverybody what's about to
happen.
Alora (41:39):
So we are recording a part two on miles podcast and
these should both be going liveon the same day.
So there'll be a link in theshow notes to hop over and his.
And all of his links to connectand yeah, hear my side of the
story, which this is so fun.
It's his idea.
I've never done this before.
But I'll see you guys on milespodcast and thank you guys for
tuning in.
And I'll see you next week.
(42:00):
Bye.
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