March 17, 2025 • 29 mins
Step into the world of wedding photography with Craig Peterman, a visionary who has mastered the art of building a brand that resonates with couples. Join us as we explore Craig's inspiring journey, starting from his roots in high school photography to becoming a sought-after name in the wedding industry. His unique approach to storytelling, where candid moments take center stage, offers invaluable insights for aspiring photographers looking to make their mark.
Discover how Craig emphasizes an authentic client experience, crafting luxury services that cater to each couple's narrative. We'll dive into the challenges of navigating a saturated market and learn how fostering genuine relationships holds the key to success. You'll also hear about the importance of capturing the unscripted moments that truly reflect the joy and chaos of wedding days.
With practical advice on branding and marketing strategies tailored to the wedding photography landscape, Craig shares the lessons he's learned throughout his career. So, whether you’re a newly-engaged couple or a photographer keen on refining your craft, there’s something in this episode for you!
Join the conversation, subscribe to our podcast, and don't forget to share your favorite moments from the episode!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to Wedding Empires, where we, of
course, explore the strategiesand stories behind some of the
most successful weddingbusinesses.
Today, we're thrilled to inviteCraig Peterman, photography and
videography.
Visionary Craig Peterman, howare you?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good.
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Good, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So I've heard that you've mastered the art of
building a brand that not onlystands out but truly resonates
with couples.
So we thought we'd invite youon to kind of dive into your
journey of developing yoursignature style and the power of
authenticity and, I guess, howyou can navigate a crowded
market with purpose and passion,a crowded market in wedding
(00:44):
photography which, Benjamin, Ibelieve you know a bit about.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
No, nothing at all.
Nothing at all.
I'm going to take notes on thisone.
I want to hear all about you,Craig, and hear what you've done
, and hear how you've createdwhat you've created.
So I'm looking forward to thisone.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
All of them with you, Jack, but we've got Craig today
, so you know we're bothphotographers, so it's going to
be a bit of a bromance today, Ireckon for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So yeah, yeah, what everyone missed was before we
went live, they were both.
Oh, I like your background, Ilike your background.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, so once again, everyone, we are coming to you,
but we're both in differentrooms of the big brother house
now.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So, yeah, all right.
Well, ben, I'm gonna keep thisin hand, this one over to you,
because I believe you're you'remore of the expert on this one
or is it just because I didn'twant to do the intro anyway
moving right along?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
so, great mate, what inspired you to start?
Craig Peterman Photography andVideography.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, that's a great question.
I had a really strong passionfor photo and video from an
early age and it really startedwhen I was in high school.
I took a class and I reallyloved how I could create a scene
or create a moment and kind oftell a story without actually
speaking it.
So I think that really kind ofresonated with me.
But I started doing photos forfriends, doing portraits for
(02:11):
free and that kind of snowballedinto doing weddings and that
sort of thing.
So I guess starting thatbusiness was just a natural step
once I started getting intoweddings a lot more and kind of
getting down that road.
So, yeah, just really inspiredto tell stories of wedding day.
It's really cool.
I get to party for a living, soit's so much fun and just
(02:32):
seeing everybody's uniquecultures and stories and
everything like that.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, it's a different vibe on a wedding day,
isn't it?
I think when we've got a goodwedding day and a good couple,
we've got the best job in theworld.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I mean, you get to see peopleat their happiest moments most
of the time.
It's incredible, yeah, seeingeverybody at their happiest and
just seeing all that fun andcapturing the story and just
afterwards too, seeing thecouple and how happy they are
with what you give them too.
It's just, it's so satisfying,so it's an amazing job it's so
satisfying, so it's an amazingjob.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So tell us about your style,craig what is, what is your
style, what is who is craig as aperson, and and you know, how
did you go about developing thatstyle.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Three yeah, yeah, so, yeah, yeah.
So my style I guess really youknow it's more of an ethos, I
guess is what I would say isit's an approach on how I, how I
do photography and videographyand how I approach business in
the wedding industry as a whole.
So I believe in developing aluxury kind of brand, a luxury
lifestyle that caters to a greatexperience from start and even
(03:41):
after the finish of the wedding.
So I'm trying to give the bestpossible service to my clients,
as I can do, from the start,from when they first contacted
me, you know, all the way tillthe delivery of the photos and
videos as well.
So it's not just about thewedding day itself, it's about
building that great approachfrom start to finish.
(04:03):
And that's what I think mystyle is is kind of giving that
luxury experience without beingover the top pricey too, so,
which I think is a great thing.
So, yeah, just developing thatkind of signature approach I
think is really what's helped medevelop into a good brand in my
area and my state.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Can you give me a couple sorry to jump in in?
Can you give me a couple ofexamples of of how I guess if,
if I was a bride and consideringa few different photographers,
what would be different, whatwould be the experience as a
lead?
That would sort of make methink, oh, this guy's a bit
different.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah Well, I think I personally don't like to follow
like, if I'm trying to approachyou as a client, I don't like to
do the same styles as everybodyelse.
I'm not trying to follow thesame trends that you would see
online.
My thing is trying to, numberone give you a great experience,
right?
You know?
Contacting you, giving youpreparation tips, tips,
(05:04):
questionnaires, getting youprepared for the day and then,
when the day approaches, walkingyou through things without
being overbearing, helping youget through the day without
being too much um.
And then afterwards you know,after delivery too um, you know,
still stay in contact.
How did you like things?
Um, you know.
Checking in a year from now,you know how things going?
(05:24):
Um, but I think he's stillmarried.
That's a touchy one, right?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
it happens all the time, yeah yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So yeah, just kind of like having that approach and
then I really tell clients tolike I'm not trying to.
I mean, of course we're goingto get the stuff that's staged
on a wedding day you know thatwe're going to capture that part
, but trying to give more lightto the things that are behind
the scenes or that are not somuch staged you know, the candid
moments, the stuff that peoplewould notice, the details.
(05:58):
I personally put a lot of stockin that.
So that's a photographer andvideographer approach
specifically, I guess.
But I mean, I'm sure plannersand, you know, other vendors can
get that approach as well.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
My dog, Louie, totally agrees with you.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Welcome to the professionalism here.
We've got Louie in thebackground giving his opinion as
well, so I'm going to I kind ofgo off script all the time.
I'm a little bit rogue Jack'sthe one that keeps everything
going and I'm the one that goesrogue all the time.
So I kind of want to ask you,from a marketing sense we know
(06:38):
that being authenticallyyourself and being authentically
who you are is an advantage andis the way we need to market
ourselves.
But how do you market yourselfand how do you stand out in such
a crowded market that wecurrently have going on now?
I mean, I know up here on theSunshine Coast there's 4,000
(06:58):
photographers between Noosa andsort of the south side of
Brisbane.
I'm not sure what it's likedown where you are, but that's a
lot, and in order to stand outyou've got to do something
different.
So how do you stand out?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
For me particularly, it's going to be through my
experience and kind of word ofmouth and what people are saying
about me.
So I think reviews are reallyimportant.
For me, how I approach clientsis really important that
experience that you give toclients.
I've seen so many photographersand videographers that just
completely missed the mark ongiving a good experience.
They're great photographers butthey just don't know how to
(07:34):
talk to people.
So I think that's really whereI think I excel at something
like that.
Plus, I try to make sure mywork is great too.
Obviously, you have to be goodat what you do to be successful.
So I think those two thingshave really helped me.
And then, of course, justmarketing the right way for me
in my area has helped a lot.
I'm a part of certain marketingstrategies in my specific area
(07:56):
that have helped me quite a bit.
For example, I don't know ifyou're familiar with, like the
Knot or Wedding Wire.
Those are really good marketingstrategies for me, but using
Google to my advantage.
Wire, those are really goodmarketing strategies for me, but
, you know, using Google to myadvantage.
Marketing through Google,facebook, instagram, you know,
there I mean we could do a wholenother podcast.
You know 30 minutes on how tomarket effectively in your area,
but I think, just in a nutshell, finding the right style and
(08:17):
ethos to your brand and howthat's going to fit in with your
customers is going to be reallyimportant on how you become
successful.
And then you just build yourmarketing around that.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So how do you sorry, how do you from say advertising
and marketing?
Is there any other ways thatyou sort of find that you're
consistently attracting yourideal clients?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I think I think, through vendor relationships
honestly, if I had to reallykind of give you one right off
the bat, just building greatvendor relationships has been a
great way to attract the clientsthat I want to attract.
You know, building a great youknow friend zone around you with
people that refer you is goingto be a great way to just get
the clients that you're lookingto get.
Because if you, if you arereferring vendors that also
(09:05):
refer you, that have that sameapproach and same way you want
to attack a wedding day and howyou want to approach it and how
you want to give that greatexperience, I think is going to
be extremely helpful for you toto get those clients that you
want.
So referring back and forthbetween vendors to clients I
think is a great way to do thatyep, yep, mate.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
When it comes to photography, all of us
photographers preachstorytelling.
Can you share with us a bit howif storytelling is involved in
your marketing and your brandand, if so, you know how it's
involved and how you viewstorytelling to build your brand
?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I mean, of course, storytelling is huge for
photography and videography.
I mean, it's almost everythingthat we do most of the time.
So, yeah, storytelling is hugefor me.
So, again, I try to approachthis by capturing those candid
moments, those behind the scenesmoments.
I try to focus more on that.
Of course, you know you got toput the light on the stuff
(10:10):
that's, you know, staged, that'sgoing to be planned, but those
unplanned moments, those thingsthat happen that not a lot of
people notice, I think, is whatweddings are really remembered
by, is those things that aren'tplanned.
That's what makes a weddingmemorable.
So that's the way we tell thestory for clients is approach
getting those moments, gettingthe regular moments that we need
(10:30):
to, and then just building agreat story for them to look
back on.
It's especially helpful withvideography.
I do both.
Videography, of course, is alot easier to tell a story, but,
yeah, it's really cool to dophoto and video and kind of give
a client something to look backon 10, 20 years from now.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yep, I'm.
I'm curious when it comes tophoto and video, are you
managing both?
Have you using two separatepeople?
How do you play that?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So I have a rig where I have five cameras set up and
I capture everything.
I'm just kidding, I don't havethat, but no, I have a team that
helps me.
We do we do photo video at thesame time together as a unit.
So it's yeah, it's a lot easierto to have a team that helps me
.
We do we do photo video at thesame time together as a unit.
So it's um, yeah, it's a loteasier to to have a good team
around you and people that havethe same values as you do.
So, yeah, we, we attackweddings all together at the
(11:23):
same time.
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
So there's a.
There's a massive and we youjust touched on a little bit
before there's a massive trendof all the behind the scenes and
and a lot of wedding brides andgrooms want to see behind the
scenes and people in generalwant to see behind the scenes, I
guess, of what we do.
So do you pander to that behindthe scenes, like, is that
something that you do?
And, if so, how do you manageall that behind the scenes stuff
(11:49):
in terms of shooting it andputting it all together and all
that sort of stuff?
Do you have a social media teamthat does that or do you do
that yourself?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh, no, no.
So what I mean by behind thescenes, I think, is more of like
, not the actual behind thescenes, but like the stuff
that's unscripted on a weddingday is what we try to capture
like little emotions or detailsor you know funny things that
happen that aren't planned.
And that's really what we meanby behind the scenes stuff, like
if someone actually wantsbehind the scenes footage or
(12:17):
photos or stuff like that, wecan do that.
But um, but for us, what we doright now is we focus more on
the unscripted moments andcapturing that and then also, of
course, you know, getting thestuff that is planned.
But yeah, behind the scenesstuff is becoming really popular
here.
We just haven't reallyapproached that yet yeah, yeah,
that's.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
It is something that's becoming bigger and
bigger on social media.
I'm sure you've seen that aswell.
Jack with the the weddingplanning side of things and all
that sort of stuff as well oh,definitely I, and I remember we
had um, who was that angelabrush?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
how did bruce yeah, she was talking about how a
previous guest that we had on,who was also a wedding
photographer, talked about thestuff that went viral for her on
TikTok.
Was those, you know, thingsthat went wrong, or funny
moments that were unscripted?
Yeah, it seems to be reallywhat takes off from the social
platforms, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Despite our amazing work that we do.
Craig, it's the crazy behindthe scenes.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
The great photos don't mean nothing.
It's just the behind the scenesmoments.
That's what gets people.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Actually, I did get one of those.
I got one of those meta glassesI don't know if you've seen
those and it can capture you cancapture behind the scenes, you
know, you know prettyefficiently, so it's pretty cool
.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Sorry, I know with darling don't panic my wedding
planning business that we hadfor years and years.
We had the typical hero shot onthe website.
That was, you know, the bestwedding that we'd done recently
and whatever.
And then I I came across thisphoto one day that was totally
between my official moments andthere was so much going on like
(13:59):
this person was looking at thisone and this one was chatting to
this one and I was like that'sactually my favorite photo right
now.
So if you ever go to thatwebsite, um, you could see, but
it's, it's certainly not a, youknow, the bridesmaids lined up
and everyone's perfect.
It's just reality of what goeson on a wedding day, kind of
(14:21):
encapsulated.
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
The madness that goes on.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah.
So I guess I'd like to knowsort of stepping away from the
taking photos and video side ofit, how do you kind of stay on
top of all the differentplatforms and being there online
and you know managing that sideof the business?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Oh, my God, You're making me just kind of want to
throw my phone through thewindow just hearing that.
But yeah, it's tough, you knowyou just, I work really hard, I
get up early, I stay up late andI work really hard and I have
to stay on top of it.
It's just something you have todo if you want to be marketable
and build a brand.
You have to stay on top of thesocial media platform.
(15:04):
You have to post, you just haveto do it.
There's not really any way ofgetting around it.
You could hire somebody to helpyou with it, of course, but I
don't.
I don't really feel like doingthat.
So, yeah, you just have to do itevery day, and that's one of
the things I try to do is do atleast a story every day.
You know something like that.
You don't have to post everyday, but I think it's important
for me to to find a good medium,like not just posting just a
(15:28):
post, but posting qualitycontent.
So trying to figure out that inbetween is really tough.
Yeah, just trying to.
You know, work as hard as youcan to juggle those and keep
posting.
You have to.
You have to, you have to stayrelevant.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
And what?
What kind of posts do you thinkare the best performing ones
for you at the moment, like,would you say, a reel or a story
or any particular platform?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
story or any particular platform.
Lately it's been a real, um.
A real has been been my bestposting, but I do notice a good.
A good post sometimes is like amix between photos and a real,
like you put them together intoone post.
That seems to perform reallywell for me.
So the algorithms are everchanging on instagram and
facebook, so it's kind of toughto figure out what they're
actually going to show.
You know more likely to show,but yeah, just for me right now
(16:21):
it's just a reel that's doingreally well.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Which, on Instagram, tends to be the thing that is
kind of doing well at the moment.
So while you were just talking,I've just jumped on Instagram
and stalked your Instagram pageand 53 or nearly 54,000.
That's a huge bill.
Yeah, thank you.
That kind of brings me to mynext question, with social media
(16:46):
being so important for us asphotographers and pretty much
everyone.
Now, what what's been some ofthe challenges that you've faced
in building your brand when itcomes to like all the way from
the start, obviously you startedquite a while ago and and
you've built up on a massivesocial media presence.
So what are some of thechallenges that you've faced in
(17:08):
in building that and buildingyour brand?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
just, I guess, just figure out what works.
That was really kind of toughfor me in the beginning.
It's just like what should Ipost?
How often should I post?
What would work here?
What do people want to see?
I think I've kind of just gottenaway from that.
I used to post based on what Ithink people wanted to see and
now I'm kind of posting more onlike what I think is great.
(17:34):
You know personally.
So I think just kind ofsticking to what you like and
how you value your work and howyou value your brand is
important when you post and notjust trying to pander to people,
because it does get pretty oldto see the same things over and
over, like if I see, I see thisall the time, like the moment
(17:56):
versus the shot reels, and itjust drives me nuts because
everybody's doing it.
It's like come on, like cansomeone do something different?
And I think that's reallyimportant for other people to
just kind of understand is youdon't have to do everything
everybody else is doing.
Try something different, don'tbe afraid to branch out and do
something else.
So I mean, just try to sticktrue to who you are and your
(18:16):
brand.
So I think that's reallyimportant for me.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
What do you think, jack?
You've got some questions there.
That was a nice little droppunt over to you, wasn't it Jack
?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I'm keen to know how you know after a wedding and you
get that sort of testimonial orthe stories from the clients.
How do you weave those in andrepurpose those?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So I usually will post a story about it every so
often, like you know, a reviewwith the person's name.
I think those are really cool.
It just kind of gives yourfollowers like, hey, you know,
look how great he's doing orlook how good of an experience
it would be, the really goodones I like to put up on my
website.
I think that's a great place topost your reviews as well, just
kind of giving your clientsmore of a good I can't think of
(19:10):
the word for it but kind ofsolidifying your brand and how
good of experience that youoffer.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Can I jump in on that ?
This is so weird becausenormally it's the other way
around and I'm like come on, ben, go on come on, jack, it's all
right, you're good, you're good,all right, all right.
So, craig, I want to ask youabout trends.
There is in the industry somany trends good, bad, ugly, you
(19:44):
name it.
What's your stance on thosetrends that are happening and
how do you stay authentic,despite the public pressure or
the pressure on social media topander to those trends?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I mean, some of those trends are so cringy.
I mean, come on.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
You know, every time I go on Instagram like my God.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But yeah, I think I think it's.
If it's important to yourclients, I think it should be
important to you.
It has to be your, your, yourclient-based business.
So I think what you find likethat is you could work into your
business, maybe sprinkle it ina little bit.
You don't have to fully go intoit, but maybe sprinkle some of
this stuff here and there.
I mean, listen, you know, yougot to kind of figure out what
(20:27):
what you like versus what istrendy and kind of try to blend
those two together for yourclients.
So for me I just try tosprinkle in things here and
there, like the blurry photos.
For me as a photographer, Ifind them kind of cringy
sometimes, but of course I dosprinkle in some here and there
because clients love it.
So yeah, I think it's finding agood medium is really good to
do for your clients for sure.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So, as a photographer , then this is a very
photography-based question.
As a photographer, if there's atrend that goes against the
aesthetics of good photographyand goes against the rules of
quality photography, will youengage.
Photography and it goes againstthe rules of quality
(21:08):
photography will you engage.
Let me give you an example thedirect flash on the camera
straight at the clients theylook like a deer in the
headlights, as opposed tobeautiful bounce flash where
you've got a short side of theface and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It's got to be the right situation.
You can't do that all the time.
It has to be the rightsituation.
So if it's really again, ifit's really important to my
clients, yes, I will try it,because my main goal in my brand
is making sure that there's100% satisfaction and they love
everything about theirexperience with me.
I'm willing to do that forclients, but it has to be the
(21:45):
right situation.
If it doesn't seem right, I'mgoing to tell the client like
hey, this is not going to work,like a direct flash is not going
to work in this situation.
Are you sure you want to do it?
So I think it's just beinghonest and open is really
important for things.
You know photography specific.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
So Yep, that would.
That would go as well, Jack,wouldn't it?
With?
With the planning, thedecorating, the everything side
of things, you know how the dayis going to work, you know how
everything is going to work andyou've got a couple that want to
go rogue.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Being a wedding planner you kind of become an
expert of, yeah, thinking on thefly and things changing and you
know rolling with them and youknow it's probably the biggest
part of the day for us ismanaging those things and you
know, rolling with them and youknow it's it's probably the
biggest part of the day for usis managing those things and you
know, making them, hiding themfrom the couple and dealing with
them or you know, whatever itis.
(22:35):
But yeah yeah, it's sort of sortof a bit different on our side.
But, craig, I'd like to knowlike, from a perspective, you're
this far along now, what kindof branding advice do you wish
that you had in the beginning,that you've learned now?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, there's two things I'd say.
Number one, specific forweddings, really is the day
isn't about you, it's about yourclients.
So making sure that you givethem what they want is paramount
.
You can't approach it like Iwant to do these things this way
, it's their day.
You have to approach it likeit's their day.
(23:14):
So I think that's probably oneof the big things for me.
But another thing too is justfiguring out who you are and
what you like and how you wantto approach it.
You can't just shotgun into thewedding industry and just
figure it out on the fly.
I think it's really importantto figure out who you are and
what you want from the start.
(23:34):
It's really going to advanceyou quicker than just trying to
figure it out in the midst ofdoing it.
So I know that's really hard tokind of figure out in the
beginning is how exactly youwant to do it.
But at least having like a goodidea and a good plan on what
you want to do and just workingyour way back from that point
and building it that way.
So those would be my two thingsthat I wish I had known sooner
(23:56):
for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Speaking of ideas and planning, is there any risks
that you've taken with the brandthat have really paid off for
you planning?
Is there any risks?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
that you've taken with the brand that are really
paid off for you.
Well, I mean, I guess you couldsay raising prices is a risk.
That's always a risk.
You know, that's something I doevery year usually and I and I
scare it every time.
I do it, cause like, am I goingto get clients if I raise my
prices?
But I think it's always paidoff because you, if you gain
experience, you have to raiseyour, your prices.
If you're getting booked andyou have too many weddings to
(24:27):
handle, you have to raise yourprices.
So for me, that is somethingthat's been a risk that's paid
off ben, have you got yourfamous question ready to go?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
it's not not a famous question, but so is it.
So is um so craig.
There's a.
There's a question I ask all ofour guests at the end of our
podcast, and that question is ifyou walked outside today and
ran into an 18-year-old versionof yourself, what would you tell
yourself about life and success, knowing what you know now?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Stop buying gear.
No, I would just say save yourmoney, number one.
You know that's one thing Ihave trouble with.
But just taking your time, bepatient.
You know, don't rush intothings.
I think that's always somethingthat's been consistently a
problem for me.
But yeah, just being true toyourself, taking your time and
(25:26):
saving money and stop buyinggear, for christ's sake.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
you got enough already I'm not even a
photographer but I, but I I kindof sympathize.
How many lights and cameras andshit do I?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I'm surprised that nothing's arrived for you while
we've been on the stream, jack Iforgot to even turn them on.
I thought you just had a greattan.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I did get online shopping today.
I got new car mats for my Audi.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Speaking of buying gear and buying things, Jack is
world champion, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Amazon every day type of person.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
We won't tell Greg, my husband, this, though.
Okay, it's between us threeanyway, craig, it's been a
pleasure having you on thepodcast and getting to know you.
Um, I hope you know businesscontinues to boom and we'll get
you back soon and talk aboutmaybe, maybe the marketing and
(26:23):
the and the and you know thesocial media side of things and
how, how you're doing that, butit's been an absolute pleasure.
If you'd like to check outcraig's work, you can find his
website is peterman photo video.
He's also, of course, oninstagram and facebook and I'll
pop those links into the shownotes.
But thank you so much, craigthank you guys again.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It's been a pleasure.
I loved it.
I love being every part of thispodcast thanks, craig.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's been awesome to meet you, mate.
Thank you.
Welcome back to Wedding Empires, where we, of
course, explore the strategiesand stories behind some of the
most successful weddingbusinesses.
Today, we're thrilled to inviteCraig Peterman, photography and
videography.
Visionary Craig Peterman, howare you?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good.
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Good, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So I've heard that you've mastered the art of
building a brand that not onlystands out but truly resonates
with couples.
So we thought we'd invite youon to kind of dive into your
journey of developing yoursignature style and the power of
authenticity and, I guess, howyou can navigate a crowded
market with purpose and passion,a crowded market in wedding
(00:44):
photography which, Benjamin, Ibelieve you know a bit about.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
No, nothing at all.
Nothing at all.
I'm going to take notes on thisone.
I want to hear all about you,Craig, and hear what you've done
, and hear how you've createdwhat you've created.
So I'm looking forward to thisone.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
All of them with you, Jack, but we've got Craig today
, so you know we're bothphotographers, so it's going to
be a bit of a bromance today, Ireckon for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So yeah, yeah, what everyone missed was before we
went live, they were both.
Oh, I like your background, Ilike your background.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, so once again, everyone, we are coming to you,
but we're both in differentrooms of the big brother house
now.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So, yeah, all right.
Well, ben, I'm gonna keep thisin hand, this one over to you,
because I believe you're you'remore of the expert on this one
or is it just because I didn'twant to do the intro anyway
moving right along?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
so, great mate, what inspired you to start?
Craig Peterman Photography andVideography.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, that's a great question.
I had a really strong passionfor photo and video from an
early age and it really startedwhen I was in high school.
I took a class and I reallyloved how I could create a scene
or create a moment and kind oftell a story without actually
speaking it.
So I think that really kind ofresonated with me.
But I started doing photos forfriends, doing portraits for
(02:11):
free and that kind of snowballedinto doing weddings and that
sort of thing.
So I guess starting thatbusiness was just a natural step
once I started getting intoweddings a lot more and kind of
getting down that road.
So, yeah, just really inspiredto tell stories of wedding day.
It's really cool.
I get to party for a living, soit's so much fun and just
(02:32):
seeing everybody's uniquecultures and stories and
everything like that.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, it's a different vibe on a wedding day,
isn't it?
I think when we've got a goodwedding day and a good couple,
we've got the best job in theworld.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I mean, you get to see peopleat their happiest moments most
of the time.
It's incredible, yeah, seeingeverybody at their happiest and
just seeing all that fun andcapturing the story and just
afterwards too, seeing thecouple and how happy they are
with what you give them too.
It's just, it's so satisfying,so it's an amazing job it's so
satisfying, so it's an amazingjob.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So tell us about your style,craig what is, what is your
style, what is who is craig as aperson, and and you know, how
did you go about developing thatstyle.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Three yeah, yeah, so, yeah, yeah.
So my style I guess really youknow it's more of an ethos, I
guess is what I would say isit's an approach on how I, how I
do photography and videographyand how I approach business in
the wedding industry as a whole.
So I believe in developing aluxury kind of brand, a luxury
lifestyle that caters to a greatexperience from start and even
(03:41):
after the finish of the wedding.
So I'm trying to give the bestpossible service to my clients,
as I can do, from the start,from when they first contacted
me, you know, all the way tillthe delivery of the photos and
videos as well.
So it's not just about thewedding day itself, it's about
building that great approachfrom start to finish.
(04:03):
And that's what I think mystyle is is kind of giving that
luxury experience without beingover the top pricey too, so,
which I think is a great thing.
So, yeah, just developing thatkind of signature approach I
think is really what's helped medevelop into a good brand in my
area and my state.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Can you give me a couple sorry to jump in in?
Can you give me a couple ofexamples of of how I guess if,
if I was a bride and consideringa few different photographers,
what would be different, whatwould be the experience as a
lead?
That would sort of make methink, oh, this guy's a bit
different.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah Well, I think I personally don't like to follow
like, if I'm trying to approachyou as a client, I don't like to
do the same styles as everybodyelse.
I'm not trying to follow thesame trends that you would see
online.
My thing is trying to, numberone give you a great experience,
right?
You know?
Contacting you, giving youpreparation tips, tips,
(05:04):
questionnaires, getting youprepared for the day and then,
when the day approaches, walkingyou through things without
being overbearing, helping youget through the day without
being too much um.
And then afterwards you know,after delivery too um, you know,
still stay in contact.
How did you like things?
Um, you know.
Checking in a year from now,you know how things going?
(05:24):
Um, but I think he's stillmarried.
That's a touchy one, right?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
it happens all the time, yeah yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So yeah, just kind of like having that approach and
then I really tell clients tolike I'm not trying to.
I mean, of course we're goingto get the stuff that's staged
on a wedding day you know thatwe're going to capture that part
, but trying to give more lightto the things that are behind
the scenes or that are not somuch staged you know, the candid
moments, the stuff that peoplewould notice, the details.
(05:58):
I personally put a lot of stockin that.
So that's a photographer andvideographer approach
specifically, I guess.
But I mean, I'm sure plannersand, you know, other vendors can
get that approach as well.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
My dog, Louie, totally agrees with you.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Welcome to the professionalism here.
We've got Louie in thebackground giving his opinion as
well, so I'm going to I kind ofgo off script all the time.
I'm a little bit rogue Jack'sthe one that keeps everything
going and I'm the one that goesrogue all the time.
So I kind of want to ask you,from a marketing sense we know
(06:38):
that being authenticallyyourself and being authentically
who you are is an advantage andis the way we need to market
ourselves.
But how do you market yourselfand how do you stand out in such
a crowded market that wecurrently have going on now?
I mean, I know up here on theSunshine Coast there's 4,000
(06:58):
photographers between Noosa andsort of the south side of
Brisbane.
I'm not sure what it's likedown where you are, but that's a
lot, and in order to stand outyou've got to do something
different.
So how do you stand out?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
For me particularly, it's going to be through my
experience and kind of word ofmouth and what people are saying
about me.
So I think reviews are reallyimportant.
For me, how I approach clientsis really important that
experience that you give toclients.
I've seen so many photographersand videographers that just
completely missed the mark ongiving a good experience.
They're great photographers butthey just don't know how to
(07:34):
talk to people.
So I think that's really whereI think I excel at something
like that.
Plus, I try to make sure mywork is great too.
Obviously, you have to be goodat what you do to be successful.
So I think those two thingshave really helped me.
And then, of course, justmarketing the right way for me
in my area has helped a lot.
I'm a part of certain marketingstrategies in my specific area
(07:56):
that have helped me quite a bit.
For example, I don't know ifyou're familiar with, like the
Knot or Wedding Wire.
Those are really good marketingstrategies for me, but using
Google to my advantage.
Wire, those are really goodmarketing strategies for me, but
, you know, using Google to myadvantage.
Marketing through Google,facebook, instagram, you know,
there I mean we could do a wholenother podcast.
You know 30 minutes on how tomarket effectively in your area,
but I think, just in a nutshell, finding the right style and
(08:17):
ethos to your brand and howthat's going to fit in with your
customers is going to be reallyimportant on how you become
successful.
And then you just build yourmarketing around that.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So how do you sorry, how do you from say advertising
and marketing?
Is there any other ways thatyou sort of find that you're
consistently attracting yourideal clients?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I think I think, through vendor relationships
honestly, if I had to reallykind of give you one right off
the bat, just building greatvendor relationships has been a
great way to attract the clientsthat I want to attract.
You know, building a great youknow friend zone around you with
people that refer you is goingto be a great way to just get
the clients that you're lookingto get.
Because if you, if you arereferring vendors that also
(09:05):
refer you, that have that sameapproach and same way you want
to attack a wedding day and howyou want to approach it and how
you want to give that greatexperience, I think is going to
be extremely helpful for you toto get those clients that you
want.
So referring back and forthbetween vendors to clients I
think is a great way to do thatyep, yep, mate.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
When it comes to photography, all of us
photographers preachstorytelling.
Can you share with us a bit howif storytelling is involved in
your marketing and your brandand, if so, you know how it's
involved and how you viewstorytelling to build your brand
?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I mean, of course, storytelling is huge for
photography and videography.
I mean, it's almost everythingthat we do most of the time.
So, yeah, storytelling is hugefor me.
So, again, I try to approachthis by capturing those candid
moments, those behind the scenesmoments.
I try to focus more on that.
Of course, you know you got toput the light on the stuff
(10:10):
that's, you know, staged, that'sgoing to be planned, but those
unplanned moments, those thingsthat happen that not a lot of
people notice, I think, is whatweddings are really remembered
by, is those things that aren'tplanned.
That's what makes a weddingmemorable.
So that's the way we tell thestory for clients is approach
getting those moments, gettingthe regular moments that we need
(10:30):
to, and then just building agreat story for them to look
back on.
It's especially helpful withvideography.
I do both.
Videography, of course, is alot easier to tell a story, but,
yeah, it's really cool to dophoto and video and kind of give
a client something to look backon 10, 20 years from now.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yep, I'm.
I'm curious when it comes tophoto and video, are you
managing both?
Have you using two separatepeople?
How do you play that?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So I have a rig where I have five cameras set up and
I capture everything.
I'm just kidding, I don't havethat, but no, I have a team that
helps me.
We do we do photo video at thesame time together as a unit.
So it's yeah, it's a lot easierto to have a team that helps me
.
We do we do photo video at thesame time together as a unit.
So it's um, yeah, it's a loteasier to to have a good team
around you and people that havethe same values as you do.
So, yeah, we, we attackweddings all together at the
(11:23):
same time.
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
So there's a.
There's a massive and we youjust touched on a little bit
before there's a massive trendof all the behind the scenes and
and a lot of wedding brides andgrooms want to see behind the
scenes and people in generalwant to see behind the scenes, I
guess, of what we do.
So do you pander to that behindthe scenes, like, is that
something that you do?
And, if so, how do you manageall that behind the scenes stuff
(11:49):
in terms of shooting it andputting it all together and all
that sort of stuff?
Do you have a social media teamthat does that or do you do
that yourself?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh, no, no.
So what I mean by behind thescenes, I think, is more of like
, not the actual behind thescenes, but like the stuff
that's unscripted on a weddingday is what we try to capture
like little emotions or detailsor you know funny things that
happen that aren't planned.
And that's really what we meanby behind the scenes stuff, like
if someone actually wantsbehind the scenes footage or
(12:17):
photos or stuff like that, wecan do that.
But um, but for us, what we doright now is we focus more on
the unscripted moments andcapturing that and then also, of
course, you know, getting thestuff that is planned.
But yeah, behind the scenesstuff is becoming really popular
here.
We just haven't reallyapproached that yet yeah, yeah,
that's.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
It is something that's becoming bigger and
bigger on social media.
I'm sure you've seen that aswell.
Jack with the the weddingplanning side of things and all
that sort of stuff as well oh,definitely I, and I remember we
had um, who was that angelabrush?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
how did bruce yeah, she was talking about how a
previous guest that we had on,who was also a wedding
photographer, talked about thestuff that went viral for her on
TikTok.
Was those, you know, thingsthat went wrong, or funny
moments that were unscripted?
Yeah, it seems to be reallywhat takes off from the social
platforms, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Despite our amazing work that we do.
Craig, it's the crazy behindthe scenes.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
The great photos don't mean nothing.
It's just the behind the scenesmoments.
That's what gets people.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Actually, I did get one of those.
I got one of those meta glassesI don't know if you've seen
those and it can capture you cancapture behind the scenes, you
know, you know prettyefficiently, so it's pretty cool
.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Sorry, I know with darling don't panic my wedding
planning business that we hadfor years and years.
We had the typical hero shot onthe website.
That was, you know, the bestwedding that we'd done recently
and whatever.
And then I I came across thisphoto one day that was totally
between my official moments andthere was so much going on like
(13:59):
this person was looking at thisone and this one was chatting to
this one and I was like that'sactually my favorite photo right
now.
So if you ever go to thatwebsite, um, you could see, but
it's, it's certainly not a, youknow, the bridesmaids lined up
and everyone's perfect.
It's just reality of what goeson on a wedding day, kind of
(14:21):
encapsulated.
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
The madness that goes on.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah.
So I guess I'd like to knowsort of stepping away from the
taking photos and video side ofit, how do you kind of stay on
top of all the differentplatforms and being there online
and you know managing that sideof the business?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Oh, my God, You're making me just kind of want to
throw my phone through thewindow just hearing that.
But yeah, it's tough, you knowyou just, I work really hard, I
get up early, I stay up late andI work really hard and I have
to stay on top of it.
It's just something you have todo if you want to be marketable
and build a brand.
You have to stay on top of thesocial media platform.
(15:04):
You have to post, you just haveto do it.
There's not really any way ofgetting around it.
You could hire somebody to helpyou with it, of course, but I
don't.
I don't really feel like doingthat.
So, yeah, you just have to do itevery day, and that's one of
the things I try to do is do atleast a story every day.
You know something like that.
You don't have to post everyday, but I think it's important
for me to to find a good medium,like not just posting just a
(15:28):
post, but posting qualitycontent.
So trying to figure out that inbetween is really tough.
Yeah, just trying to.
You know, work as hard as youcan to juggle those and keep
posting.
You have to.
You have to, you have to stayrelevant.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
And what?
What kind of posts do you thinkare the best performing ones
for you at the moment, like,would you say, a reel or a story
or any particular platform?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
story or any particular platform.
Lately it's been a real, um.
A real has been been my bestposting, but I do notice a good.
A good post sometimes is like amix between photos and a real,
like you put them together intoone post.
That seems to perform reallywell for me.
So the algorithms are everchanging on instagram and
facebook, so it's kind of toughto figure out what they're
actually going to show.
You know more likely to show,but yeah, just for me right now
(16:21):
it's just a reel that's doingreally well.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Which, on Instagram, tends to be the thing that is
kind of doing well at the moment.
So while you were just talking,I've just jumped on Instagram
and stalked your Instagram pageand 53 or nearly 54,000.
That's a huge bill.
Yeah, thank you.
That kind of brings me to mynext question, with social media
(16:46):
being so important for us asphotographers and pretty much
everyone.
Now, what what's been some ofthe challenges that you've faced
in building your brand when itcomes to like all the way from
the start, obviously you startedquite a while ago and and
you've built up on a massivesocial media presence.
So what are some of thechallenges that you've faced in
(17:08):
in building that and buildingyour brand?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
just, I guess, just figure out what works.
That was really kind of toughfor me in the beginning.
It's just like what should Ipost?
How often should I post?
What would work here?
What do people want to see?
I think I've kind of just gottenaway from that.
I used to post based on what Ithink people wanted to see and
now I'm kind of posting more onlike what I think is great.
(17:34):
You know personally.
So I think just kind ofsticking to what you like and
how you value your work and howyou value your brand is
important when you post and notjust trying to pander to people,
because it does get pretty oldto see the same things over and
over, like if I see, I see thisall the time, like the moment
(17:56):
versus the shot reels, and itjust drives me nuts because
everybody's doing it.
It's like come on, like cansomeone do something different?
And I think that's reallyimportant for other people to
just kind of understand is youdon't have to do everything
everybody else is doing.
Try something different, don'tbe afraid to branch out and do
something else.
So I mean, just try to sticktrue to who you are and your
(18:16):
brand.
So I think that's reallyimportant for me.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
What do you think, jack?
You've got some questions there.
That was a nice little droppunt over to you, wasn't it Jack
?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I'm keen to know how you know after a wedding and you
get that sort of testimonial orthe stories from the clients.
How do you weave those in andrepurpose those?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So I usually will post a story about it every so
often, like you know, a reviewwith the person's name.
I think those are really cool.
It just kind of gives yourfollowers like, hey, you know,
look how great he's doing orlook how good of an experience
it would be, the really goodones I like to put up on my
website.
I think that's a great place topost your reviews as well, just
kind of giving your clientsmore of a good I can't think of
(19:10):
the word for it but kind ofsolidifying your brand and how
good of experience that youoffer.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Can I jump in on that ?
This is so weird becausenormally it's the other way
around and I'm like come on, ben, go on come on, jack, it's all
right, you're good, you're good,all right, all right.
So, craig, I want to ask youabout trends.
There is in the industry somany trends good, bad, ugly, you
(19:44):
name it.
What's your stance on thosetrends that are happening and
how do you stay authentic,despite the public pressure or
the pressure on social media topander to those trends?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I mean, some of those trends are so cringy.
I mean, come on.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
You know, every time I go on Instagram like my God.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But yeah, I think I think it's.
If it's important to yourclients, I think it should be
important to you.
It has to be your, your, yourclient-based business.
So I think what you find likethat is you could work into your
business, maybe sprinkle it ina little bit.
You don't have to fully go intoit, but maybe sprinkle some of
this stuff here and there.
I mean, listen, you know, yougot to kind of figure out what
(20:27):
what you like versus what istrendy and kind of try to blend
those two together for yourclients.
So for me I just try tosprinkle in things here and
there, like the blurry photos.
For me as a photographer, Ifind them kind of cringy
sometimes, but of course I dosprinkle in some here and there
because clients love it.
So yeah, I think it's finding agood medium is really good to
do for your clients for sure.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So, as a photographer , then this is a very
photography-based question.
As a photographer, if there's atrend that goes against the
aesthetics of good photographyand goes against the rules of
quality photography, will youengage.
Photography and it goes againstthe rules of quality
(21:08):
photography will you engage.
Let me give you an example thedirect flash on the camera
straight at the clients theylook like a deer in the
headlights, as opposed tobeautiful bounce flash where
you've got a short side of theface and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It's got to be the right situation.
You can't do that all the time.
It has to be the rightsituation.
So if it's really again, ifit's really important to my
clients, yes, I will try it,because my main goal in my brand
is making sure that there's100% satisfaction and they love
everything about theirexperience with me.
I'm willing to do that forclients, but it has to be the
(21:45):
right situation.
If it doesn't seem right, I'mgoing to tell the client like
hey, this is not going to work,like a direct flash is not going
to work in this situation.
Are you sure you want to do it?
So I think it's just beinghonest and open is really
important for things.
You know photography specific.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
So Yep, that would.
That would go as well, Jack,wouldn't it?
With?
With the planning, thedecorating, the everything side
of things, you know how the dayis going to work, you know how
everything is going to work andyou've got a couple that want to
go rogue.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Being a wedding planner you kind of become an
expert of, yeah, thinking on thefly and things changing and you
know rolling with them and youknow it's probably the biggest
part of the day for us ismanaging those things and you
know, rolling with them and youknow it's it's probably the
biggest part of the day for usis managing those things and you
know, making them, hiding themfrom the couple and dealing with
them or you know, whatever itis.
(22:35):
But yeah yeah, it's sort of sortof a bit different on our side.
But, craig, I'd like to knowlike, from a perspective, you're
this far along now, what kindof branding advice do you wish
that you had in the beginning,that you've learned now?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, there's two things I'd say.
Number one, specific forweddings, really is the day
isn't about you, it's about yourclients.
So making sure that you givethem what they want is paramount
.
You can't approach it like Iwant to do these things this way
, it's their day.
You have to approach it likeit's their day.
(23:14):
So I think that's probably oneof the big things for me.
But another thing too is justfiguring out who you are and
what you like and how you wantto approach it.
You can't just shotgun into thewedding industry and just
figure it out on the fly.
I think it's really importantto figure out who you are and
what you want from the start.
(23:34):
It's really going to advanceyou quicker than just trying to
figure it out in the midst ofdoing it.
So I know that's really hard tokind of figure out in the
beginning is how exactly youwant to do it.
But at least having like a goodidea and a good plan on what
you want to do and just workingyour way back from that point
and building it that way.
So those would be my two thingsthat I wish I had known sooner
(23:56):
for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Speaking of ideas and planning, is there any risks
that you've taken with the brandthat have really paid off for
you planning?
Is there any risks?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
that you've taken with the brand that are really
paid off for you.
Well, I mean, I guess you couldsay raising prices is a risk.
That's always a risk.
You know, that's something I doevery year usually and I and I
scare it every time.
I do it, cause like, am I goingto get clients if I raise my
prices?
But I think it's always paidoff because you, if you gain
experience, you have to raiseyour, your prices.
If you're getting booked andyou have too many weddings to
(24:27):
handle, you have to raise yourprices.
So for me, that is somethingthat's been a risk that's paid
off ben, have you got yourfamous question ready to go?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
it's not not a famous question, but so is it.
So is um so craig.
There's a.
There's a question I ask all ofour guests at the end of our
podcast, and that question is ifyou walked outside today and
ran into an 18-year-old versionof yourself, what would you tell
yourself about life and success, knowing what you know now?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Stop buying gear.
No, I would just say save yourmoney, number one.
You know that's one thing Ihave trouble with.
But just taking your time, bepatient.
You know, don't rush intothings.
I think that's always somethingthat's been consistently a
problem for me.
But yeah, just being true toyourself, taking your time and
(25:26):
saving money and stop buyinggear, for christ's sake.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
you got enough already I'm not even a
photographer but I, but I I kindof sympathize.
How many lights and cameras andshit do I?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I'm surprised that nothing's arrived for you while
we've been on the stream, jack Iforgot to even turn them on.
I thought you just had a greattan.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I did get online shopping today.
I got new car mats for my Audi.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Speaking of buying gear and buying things, Jack is
world champion, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Amazon every day type of person.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
We won't tell Greg, my husband, this, though.
Okay, it's between us threeanyway, craig, it's been a
pleasure having you on thepodcast and getting to know you.
Um, I hope you know businesscontinues to boom and we'll get
you back soon and talk aboutmaybe, maybe the marketing and
(26:23):
the and the and you know thesocial media side of things and
how, how you're doing that, butit's been an absolute pleasure.
If you'd like to check outcraig's work, you can find his
website is peterman photo video.
He's also, of course, oninstagram and facebook and I'll
pop those links into the shownotes.
But thank you so much, craigthank you guys again.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It's been a pleasure.
I loved it.
I love being every part of thispodcast thanks, craig.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's been awesome to meet you, mate.
Thank you.
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