April 14, 2025 • 38 mins
Tired of being a "glorified hobbyist" in the wedding industry? In this eye-opening conversation with business coach Tammy Johnston, we uncover the crucial mindset shifts and practical strategies needed to transform your wedding business from struggling side-hustle to profitable enterprise.
Tammy pulls no punches as she dissects the common pitfalls trapping so many talented wedding professionals. The harsh truth? Being excellent at photography, planning, or floristry isn't enough – true success requires mastering the eight fundamental pillars of business that apply across all industries. Most wedding pros are spending 85-90% of their time perfecting their craft when successful business owners allocate just 10-15% to service delivery.
We dive deep into pricing strategies that account for your true costs (hint: you're probably drastically undercharging), marketing approaches that don't rely solely on social media, and system development that frees you from being a "professional plate spinner." Tammy's practical advice on maintaining client relationships long after the wedding day reveals untapped revenue potential through referrals that most pros completely miss.
Perhaps most valuable is her guidance on team building – focusing not on when to hire but who to hire to complement your weaknesses rather than duplicate your strengths. Her three actionable steps provide an immediate roadmap for wedding professionals ready to elevate their business acumen and profitability.
Whether you're just starting your wedding business journey or looking to break through a growth plateau, this episode delivers the straight talk and strategic insight needed to stop being a "volunteer in the wrong line" and start building the profitable business you deserve. Connect with Tammy at KSABusiness.ca and take the first step toward transforming your passion into sustainable profit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Wedding
Empires podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
My name is Ben and my name is Jack Bowie and we're
here today to dive into thegame-changing topic for wedding
professionals on businesscoaching.
So if you're kind of new to thewedding business or you're at
the point where you want to takeyour business to the next level
and you're working hard, butyou really haven't reached that
point where you're taking thathobby and making it into your
(00:25):
full-time gig, well, our guest,tammy Johnston, is going to be
an excellent help for you today.
She's a seasoned business coach.
She's got 20 years ofexperience plus and she's also
worked with a lot of weddingprofessionals and helped them
build sustainable and profitablebusinesses.
So today we're going to hearfrom her on how to make key
(00:45):
mindset shifts, financialstrategies and some practical
steps to help you move thatpassion into profit.
So, tammy, why don't we kickoff with, I guess, a little bit
about your background and howyou became a business coach for
wedding professionals?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, I work with a lot of wedding professionals and
people in all sorts of variedindustries and products and
services all around the world,and I actually sort of fell into
it because my background isactually in financial services.
I've been doing that for over 32years now and when I was pushed
to start my own business, oneof the things I started working
(01:21):
a lot with were self-employedsmall business owners.
One of the things I startedworking a lot with were
self-employed small businessowners and as I was getting into
the nitty gritty of theirfinances, one of the things that
I was discovering was theyneeded a lot of help with their
business because they weretechnicians.
They were technically very goodat providing their product or
service, but they lacked thebusiness knowledge and they were
having massive problems.
(01:42):
So I started helping them outwith their business because I
had a greedy, motivatedself-interest, because broke
people can't afford investmentsor insurance, which is the stuff
I got paid on so I startedhelping them and they started
seeing very positive resultsvery quickly and started sending
me more of their compatriotsand colleagues and things like
that and very quickly I'm goingokay, I need to better leverage
(02:05):
this and I started teachingsmall business and then in 2019,
I split my business in two.
So I still have my personalfinancial planning company,
where I look after my existingclients, and then I have KSA,
where I focus on the smallbusiness coaching.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Wow, so the business side of things is a minefield,
tammy.
It is absolutely incredible.
So what can you tell us?
What are the some of the commonmisconceptions that wedding
professionals have when they'restarting a business?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
They have a lot of the exact same misconceptions
that most people start off with,which is as long as I'm really
good at what I do, that's all Ineed.
Everybody will come because Itake great pictures, or I plan
great events, or, and they go,my work will speak for itself.
Well, most of the time.
Well, you're competing with allsorts of other people.
(02:55):
They don't even know you existand they don't have.
They're thinking as technicians, they're not thinking as
business people, and thenthey're wondering why it doesn't
work.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, I completely agree with that.
I love the technician term.
Yeah, when I first started, Ihad someone said to me you want
to be a photographer in businessas opposed to a photographer in
business.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So yeah, I work with a lot of photographers.
In fact, I spoke at theProfessional Photographers of
Canada years ago and I'm going.
Are you a hobbyist that'spaying an awful lot for your
hobby, or are you actuallymaking money doing it?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, great question.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And so why do you think wedding businesses
struggle to sort of get beyondthat glorified hobbyist phase
Like what's the missing stepthat needs to happen?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, it depends on what the wedding professional is
, because everybody goes intobusiness with strengths and they
go in with weaknesses and a lotof the stuff that actually
causes the biggest problem formost people are all the things
that they don't even know, thatthey need to know like they're
going.
Yes, I take great pictures and,like I said, we'll get back to
the technician part, but theydon't know anything about
(04:03):
marketing.
Uh, they don't know aboutpricing.
Most business people weddingprofessionals or whatever are
getting their business advicefrom their broke-ass friends and
family who have never set footin the arena and have no idea
what they're talking about.
And they might have the best ofintentions, or they might be
actually getting advice frompeople who do not want to see
them succeed.
And then they're wondering whyit's not working.
They don't have any systems puttogether.
(04:31):
I've I've worked withphotographers that did an
absolutely fabulous job, tryingto get them to finish the job or
invoice me good, freaking luck.
And then they're wondering whythey don't, why they're not in
business.
They have no idea how tostructure their day.
They don't know how to talkwith clients.
They're going I just want, Ijust want to take my pictures
and do really good or whatever.
There's so many differentaspects.
They think, as if I'm doinggood in business, I'm spending
80 to 90% of my time practicingmy craft.
(04:53):
No, if you're lucky, you'respending 10, maybe 15% actually
practicing your craft.
All the rest of your time,effort and energy goes into
everything else.
It's like that's one day.
I remember my wedding.
It was a beautiful day.
It was one day and it wasmonths of work beforehand and
(05:14):
stuff afterwards.
And that's the same with thewedding perfector.
But they're not thinking aboutit.
They're thinking about it asone day.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, tammy, I love how passionate you are about it.
I can connect with you on thatlevel because you have that
passion for this and I've gotthat passion for teaching
photography.
And when you see so much inpeople but they're not living up
to that, you're like I could.
Just I want to show you so much.
So I know it's hard to breakthings down, but if you were
(05:45):
going to give someone a handfulof key fundamental skills that
every wedding business ownermust know, what would those key
skills be?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
How many keys do you want?
Give me a handful Keys to thekingdom.
So all successful businessdoesn't matter what the industry
is.
If it's product service, itdoesn't matter where in the
world it is.
Business is business, isbusiness.
The only thing that changes areexact legal things and exact
counting and tax stuff.
But all successful businessesshare the exact same eight
(06:14):
things.
So, first off, mindset andhabits.
When you are an entrepreneur,you are running a small business
you are thinking very, verydifferently than when you are an
employee.
Everything starts and stopswith you.
You're in charge of everything,which is a blessing and a curse
, especially in the beginning,because most people have no idea
(06:34):
what they need to be doing.
So they do what's fun and easyand what they think they need to
do, and are missing out on theother things.
And then habits.
How are you structuring yourday?
How are you controllingyourself?
How are you dealing with theitty bitty, shitty committee
that's in your head getting inthe way of everything?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I love it.
I love it.
You're talking my language,Tammy Love it.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I would love to claim credit for that one, but I have
a lovely client and that's whatshe called.
I used to call mine Ahmed theinternal terrorist, but I love
the itty bitty shitty.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Ahmed, and I know exactly who you're talking about
.
Tammy, you are my hero of theday already.
Carry on, please Carry on.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Now we're all awake.
Your vision mission values Likewhat type of business are you
building?
Where are you wanting to go?
How are you going to be makingyour decisions?
Because, as business people, weare going to be facing
difficult decisions.
So do you know what yourcompass is telling you?
So, knowing those things,marketing.
(07:32):
You absolutely have to bemarketing consistently, day in,
day out, and there's 27different ways to market your
business.
You do not need to do all ofthem.
In fact, I don't do all of them.
You need to find like a handfulof things that work for you and
your business and yourpersonality type and do them
consistently and plan that youare going to be in business 10
(07:57):
years from now, because a lot ofpeople will not do business
with you until you have been inthe game for at least three
years, because they want to makesure that number one, you're
serious, that you're not just aglorified hobbyist and that they
can count on you to be in thegame as a serious business
person.
So you have to plan and actthat way.
My personal record for havingsomebody meet me to becoming a
(08:20):
client is 14 years and I've hadeverything in between.
Like they want to see thatyou're going to be around and it
takes time.
Some people will come inquickly, some people won't, but
you have to be seen on a regularbasis.
So what is your marketing planand how are you implementing it?
Advisory team.
Like I said, most people aregetting their business advice
(08:42):
from their broke ass friends andfamily who've never set foot in
the arena.
Bad advice is the worst adviceyou can get, and a lot of your
free stuff is and no matter howsmart you are, our world is
becoming more and morecomplicated.
In the horror stories I couldtell you about people who have
gotten bad advice and what ithas done to their business and
their lives Horrifying.
You need to have the rightpeople on your team.
(09:03):
Financials that's the numberone place where business people
abdicate.
I don't even say delegate, theyabdicate it.
They're going.
Unless there's millions comingin, I don't want to look at it.
I'll talk to my bookkeeper andmy accountant when I have to
sign off to pay my taxes, butother than that, stay away from
me.
Well, when they're doing that,they're missing all of the
beautiful stories that theirnumbers can tell them to help
(09:25):
them serve more people, do itbetter and make more money doing
it, because if you are notmaking money.
You are a volunteer in thewrong line Taking away my
question.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I was going to say a lot of us in this wedding
business we aren't good at thenumbers, we aren't good at the
bookkeeping that needs to bedone.
It's definitely a common issue,isn't it, ben?
I mean, you know we're so goodat the creative side and and and
that leans us into quite goodusually at instagram and some of
the marketing and things likethat, because we've got that eye
(09:57):
, the analytical.
I really struggle with that.
Like that's not my well, likeyou said, most people, people
avoid like.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I've worked with tons of people in the wedding
industry.
I've got comics as clients andartists and stuff and everybody
goes.
They think it's complicated.
If you can count, add, subtract, multiply and divide, that's
all you need.
And when I start going throughand explaining people and they
start seeing, like you said,your numbers can tell you
beautiful, incredible storiesand they start seeing that then
they get excited about it.
Because when you're familiarwith your numbers and you're not
(10:26):
afraid of them and you areregularly looking at them and
knowing what you're looking at,you can serve more people, you
can do a better job serving them, you can make more money.
And then people get reallyexcited about it.
And, like I said, if you're notmaking money, you are not in
business.
You're a glorified volunteerthat's paying because you are
going to have cost of businessand systems.
(10:47):
No systems, no business.
It's just a job that owns you.
And there's so many people thatare especially technically
brilliant.
Everything's in their head.
Well, if everything's in yourhead, you can never take a day
off, you can't delegate, youcan't do anything because
everything's in your head andyou, you, when you start getting
busy, you'll start missingthings.
I call people professionalplate spinners because they're
(11:08):
running around and as long asthey can, they're going crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
they can keep their plates up and as soon as they go
and the plates are crashing andwhat happens when you, when you
want to scale, and it's all inyour head.
I mean, you know what's in yourhead.
It's impossible.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And you can't hire assistants because everything's
in your head and there'sdifferent ways of getting it out
, and systems are an ever livingand evolving thing.
I've been running my ownbusiness for 24 years now and
I've always constantly upgradingmy systems and adding different
ones and retiring other ones,because one of the many reasons
(11:46):
why I love business is if you'rebored, you're doing it wrong,
like there's always stuff tolearn and it's magical.
And then the last two arecashflow and profit.
You have to have both.
Cashflow is like the blood.
If there's no blood, there's nobusiness.
You have to have the cashcoming in because you are always
going to have the regular bills, even if nothing else.
(12:07):
You have to eat and you need tohave a roof over your head, so
you need to have that moneycoming in.
And then profit Profit is whatyou have after all.
The bills are paid and a lot ofpeople, especially in the
beginning, do not understand howmuch it actually costs them to
run a business and they'regrossly underpricing themselves
and they're wondering whythey're not getting better
(12:28):
clients, because better clientsknow that they're underpricing
and they're not going to begetting the quality and stuff
and the cheap.
Clients are always looking forthe best deal, and they're
always going to nickel and dimeyou down.
And then you're going.
Yes, after I paid all my billsand I've been working my butt
off, there's nothing left.
What am I doing wrong?
So having all eight of thosefoundational pieces drastically
(12:51):
improves your chances of success.
Missing one or more of them,the faster and the harder you
are going to crash.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I think it's my question now, but I've been so
captivated by what you've said Ihave no idea where I'm at it
was a bit pricing, I think yeah,there's a, so let's.
So let's talk about pricing,tammy, um, how can we, how can a
wedding professional set upprofitable rates without
(13:19):
undervaluing themselves, makingsure they're covering cost of
goods, making sure they'recovering cost of goods, making
sure that they're covering allof their taxes and all that sort
of stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Well, number one you need to know what all your costs
actually are.
So I'll give a perfect examplefrom right.
When I first started with thebusiness coaching and helping
clients and I was working with aguy in the trades he did
construction stuff and I said,well, tell me, how are you
pricing yourself out, what areyour profit margins?
And I said, well, tell me, like, how are you pricing yourself
out, like, what are your profitmargins?
(13:46):
And he says, oh, that's easy.
We've got these three thingsthat we do in this.
The one business, that thing,line of business we love to do,
that's great.
We make about 35% on that,that's absolutely wonderful.
The other one we probably makeabout 20%.
And then there's this and itkind of brings people in, but
we're only making 10% on it.
And I said, okay, well, that'swonderful, how are you pricing
(14:08):
that?
What are the things that aregoing into it?
Well, he says, well, I priceout the materials, I price out
the truck and I price out thehourly rate for my guys to do it
.
And I said, okay, and then whenI actually went through with
him and going okay, well, you'vegot your WCB costs, you've got
your insurance costs, you've gotyour office costs.
You've got your accounting,you've got this, that and
everything else.
(14:28):
When we actually went throughand figured out the business
that he thought he was doing 35%, he was making about 12.
The one he thought he wasmaking 20% he was taking like a
5% hit and the one the job thathe didn't want to do was costing
him 25% because about the totalcost of his business over the
years.
So we had to fix things rightaway.
(14:49):
And there's so many people thatmake the same thing.
They're going.
It's so many hours for me to beat the shoot and there's so many
hours for me to be doing theediting or whatever, and that's
the only thing that they'relooking at.
They're forgetting about what'syour cost of insurance, what's
your cost of your marketing,what's your cost of everything
else, what's your cost ofeverything else, what's the cost
(15:12):
for all the consultations thatyou're doing with the bride and
groom and the family beforehand,and they're going okay.
This is why I have no money atthe end of the day, because or
I'm making like $2 an hour Ithought it was make, I thought I
was making at least 20, but no,when I actually factor
everything else in, I'm onlymaking two.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So so it's that old pricing equation, then of you
know sales too.
So it's that old pricingequation, then of you know sales
, minus cost of goods, minusexpenses, gives you, gives you
your net, and then you know, wework down from there.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
And that's the basic.
That's the absolute most basicstuff.
There's ways of how you arepositioning yourself, how your
marketing is put together, howyou are interacting with the
clients, where you can actuallycharge more, make more money and
have much happier people.
But it's it's knowing thosethings, because it's not the
(15:54):
cost of goods sold and the timeand stuff is just the barest,
barest minimum.
It's all the other things thatcome into it as well, but it's
learning about the business sideof it, not just point and click
or any of the other basic,invisible things.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Can I ask a question around like systems and
processes, if you're in the mostwedding, like basic wedding
business, what are the essentialprocesses and systems to run
the business?
What do you think they consistof?
I mean just as categories, evenyou know, like marketing yep
and year-round consistentmarketing crm.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
So your customer resource management, so
relationship management.
So how are you making sure thatevery interaction that you're
having with potential customers,past customers, they're all
having the same?
Because this is another thingthat comes back to when things
are in your head, you thinkyou've done things you haven't,
and if you've got two bridesthat are talking to one another,
(16:53):
well, how come she gave you allof this stuff and I only got
half of it, with the contactsand the communications or what?
Because you didn't have yoursystem.
So, having those systems,having your systems for looking
over your financials andfiguring out and and taking the
simple things like taking a lookat your calendar.
Like we all know, you guys arein Australia, so I'm not exactly
(17:14):
sure when your wedding busyseason is, but up here in North
America we're just starting toget into ours, because it's like
the end of May, june, july andAugust are our busy seasons.
Well, how much of a lead timedo you need to have in order to
turn those people into clients?
Like, if you're not marketingfor wedding season until May,
(17:35):
you've already missed everybody.
So, having those marketingsystems in the CRM, looking at
your financials and making surethat you've got your stuff put
together on a regular basis.
And when you have downtime,you've got your stuff put
together on a regular basis.
And when you have downtime,what are you doing with that
time?
Like here, I don't teachDecember, I don't teach July and
(17:55):
I don't teach August, whythere's no point.
I can have classes full andthen people are coming in from
out of town and they drop out.
So that I make sure that I amdoing very different things in
my downtimes, where a lot ofpeople it's feast and famine,
feast and famine.
So that I make sure that I amdoing very different things in
my down times, where a lot ofpeople it's feast and famine,
feast and famine.
When they're busy and theseason is, they will go flat out
(18:16):
and then they're wasting theirdowntime and then they're
wondering why they have to workso hard to get going again.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, I know that I personally learned that the hard
way in terms of marketing,because we've got a one to two
year cycle here and I realizedthat the years that I was
peddling like crazy underneaththe water and not doing any
marketing for the following yearmeant that I hurt that the next
year.
So, yeah, that's a reallyimportant one.
And I think just on that inregards to marketing, can you
(18:43):
give us some effective marketingstrategies that kind of don't
rely on social media, because Iknow that I've had the same
situation where I've had aFacebook ads account blocked for
months while I fought to get itgoing again, and if you're
solely relying on social mediaand something like that happens
and you get hacked or somethinglike that, all of a sudden
(19:03):
you're gone.
So have you got some other sortof marketing strategies for us?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I'm huge on that one and I have to work with so many,
especially on the creative side.
Social media is where you canfind people, but if that is your
only way of connecting withthem, like you said, you could
be hacked, you could be lockedout, you could piss off somebody
and matter whatever, and youcould lose everything.
I've seen it happen.
So one of the things that youneed to be doing with your
(19:29):
social media and we have to havesocial media like that is our
world.
When I started my business,social media didn't exist.
I think MySpace started upshortly thereafter, but that was
it.
The job of social media is tomove them over to your website
and be gathering thatinformation.
But I'm old school Things thatI have done podcasting works
(19:50):
wonderfully for me.
Speaking community trade shows,like everybody wants to go to
the wedding show, but thenyou're competing with everybody
when, if you're going to thesmaller shows the things that
people wouldn't think aboutyou're going to stand out an
awful lot more.
Networking is a huge one one,and networking with other people
in your industry that are notyour direct competition.
(20:13):
So when I like one of thethings I had to train people
when I was speaking for theprofessional photographers of
canada is and going.
There's a lot of photographersin here who hate doing weddings.
They would rather pull out alltheir hair than photograph a
wedding, and there was a fewpeople there that loved weddings
.
Well, you guys need to exchangeinformation.
(20:35):
So if somebody goes to theperson who does all the product
photos and they get asked well,can you do this wedding?
No, they don't want to do thewedding, they're not going to do
a good job of it either, butthey can pass off the name to
somebody who is going to do afabulous job and love doing it.
So networking is big one andmaintaining relationships with
(20:56):
your existing customers Are youever speaking to them?
Are you keeping in touch withthem after you've done all the
stuff for their wedding?
Because a lot of people forgetabout that, like you think.
Well, they should only begetting married once, and
hopefully they are.
But how many other people dothey know in their world that
are getting married Family,friends, all this stuff?
When I got married, we weregoing to a couple of weddings
(21:20):
every year for a few yearsbecause that was our circle.
So if you go, and most of ourwedding photography and other
vendors that we shared were allthe same people, because we
talked oh yeah, they did a greatjob for so-and-so's wedding.
We want them for us.
So how are you building andmaintaining those relationships?
Because, if you're thinking ofit as a one-off, you have left
(21:42):
so much money on the table andyou're going to work way better
than you have to what are someeasy ways to do that?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Obviously, you could send them an email on their
anniversary or something.
Have you had any other ideas?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I would say don't do email Old-fashioned physical
cards that go in the snail mail,because email gets lost.
How many emails do you get aday?
I get probably two to threehundred emails a day and even if
it's once, I don't have thecapacity a lot of the time to
even look at it.
But what do you get in the mail?
Typically bills or junk.
(22:15):
If you're actually gettingsomething positive, like you
could send a card that you'vemade that has a picture of their
wedding on it and going,wishing you the best of luck and
or put something in there, butit makes them Hopefully they're
still together.
Hopefully they're stilltogether.
If not, here's a divorce law orhere's the other one.
Can you help them with theirdivorce party or the next
(22:40):
wedding?
Done that, done that.
Having the personalrelationship is what matters.
We do business with people weknow, like and trust and well,
they tested you enough to dotheir wedding and you're not
looking for more business fromthem.
But you're reminding them andthey will talk to people,
especially if you did a good jobof what you did at the wedding
(23:03):
and people will ask who did thatfor you and I literally had
people go.
Yeah, they were great.
I can't even remember who theywere and they don't remember
because after the wedding wasdone, they were never heard from
again.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
It's a really good point.
It's a really simple, but we soforget that you know our
business.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It does not need to be complicated, it doesn't need
to be expensive.
But I have.
I have found because I'm big onthe snail mail and it works
(23:53):
wonders because especially nowlike we get our bills on email
and things like this, so we getnext to nothing in the mail and
I have people post all oversocial media when they're
getting their cards and stufffor me and I'm going I don't,
that's fabulous for me and it'sjust that's who I am.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah there are some little hacks like send out cards
, that that service where beneven even in like go high level
obviously we've been talking alot about lately, where you can
add into an automation a stepwhere a physical postcard gets
sent to somebody via mail, um,and it's just like one of those
like text message services, inthat you know it'll take the
(24:33):
money that you've got on file orit'll send the card that you
stipulate.
You might have createdsomething custom, sometimes in
handwriting, and everything.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Oh, you can do everything.
I do send out cards for yearsand I'm old, so I do everything
on my computer because, but youcan, can?
I've had people do it literallyfrom the app on their phone and
it is done before they'vewalked out the door.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, what's that?
Send out cards.
Send out cards.
So you two know all of thelittle.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, I'm in the manual world, so, okay, that's
cool, I'm gonna check it out butyou know, by all means, if you
want to go to Woolworths and buya pack of 100 cards, like you
can still do that, you can go onCanva and create a few of your
own cards and just have themprinted.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
That way I've done that for when I'm doing bulk
things or whatever.
Find a few things that work foryou.
But the big thing is, how areyou building and maintaining
relationships?
Because if you're thinking ofit, as soon as everything is
done, for my part in the wedding, I'm done with those people you
are.
You're shooting yourself in thefoot.
You're shooting yourself in thefoot because you have no idea
(25:36):
how many other people they knowand if they like you and they
remember you, they will send youbusiness.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, we spoke about systems in terms of, you know,
of building systems forlong-term growth and that sort
of stuff.
So I guess another aspect tothat growth is teams.
So when do you think should awedding business or a wedding
entrepreneur think aboutexpanding and bringing on a team
?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Okay, that's a very loaded question.
It's a great question, but it'skind of a loaded question
because it's not so much whenit's who are they bringing on
for the team, which I would saywould be a bigger thing.
If you're starting to getenough going and if you've got
the right people on your team,you could bring them on sooner
and expand an awful lot faster.
One of the biggest problems Ifind when people are looking at
(26:24):
expanding their team andbringing people on is they are
hiring people that are just likethem and then they're wondering
why the stuff that they don'tlike doing, the stuff that
they're not good at doing, isn'tgetting done.
So you want to be taking a lookat okay, what am I really good
at, what do I love doing andwhere am I weak and where do I
(26:45):
need help, and then finding theright people to fill in those
gaps.
Because if you have a bunch ofpeople that they just absolutely
love taking all the photos, forexample, and you don't have
anybody that wants to help outwith the systems or look after
the financials and the invoicingand doing the editing and stuff
(27:06):
, well, that stuff isn't goingto be done.
So I always have my people puttogether an org chart and at the
beginning, when you're asolopreneur, your name is going
to be in every single spot.
But if you think about what areall the different aspects of my
business?
Who's looking after themarketing?
Who's looking after thefinancials?
Who's actually interacting withthe client?
(27:28):
Who's making sure that they'regetting all of their proper
communications?
Who's making sure that we'regetting paid at the right time
and things are being lookedafter?
Look at all the differentaspects and then who can
properly fill in those jobs andthen you can really get your
business going so good.
If you're going I need, I needto be booked solid out before
(27:51):
that I bring anybody on well,then you're getting in your way,
you're slowing yourself down.
But if you're higher, if you'rebringing in the wrong people,
it doesn't mean there's anythingwrong with the people, but
they're not the right people forthe help that you need.
That's going to cause you a lotof problems too.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, so I'm tipping.
There's probably a few peopleout there that have never heard
of an org chart.
I'm sure that we all have, socan you just explain very
briefly what is an org chart?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
An organizational chart is.
Look of it as a flow chart foryour business and at the top we
have the CEO and president,who's making all the decisions
and all businesses have.
You have marketing, you haveadmin and you have operations.
Operations is like the delivery, and so who's going to be doing
(28:39):
the marketing?
What are the jobs that need tobe done for marketing, for the
financials, putting togetheryour systems, all of those
things.
And then operations who'sactually like the work that's
being done for the client andwhat are all?
I always say think of it in jobdescriptions.
So, as you're going through andgetting ready to be working
with the wedding, what are allthe little jobs and stuff that
(29:01):
needs to be done from beginningto end?
And then, where are you strong,when are you weak, and get help
for the areas that you're weakon, Roger.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Tammy, I'd like to know three easy, actionable
steps that wedding businessowners could learn from you
today to, I think, get a betterhandle on the business side of
things.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Well, I would say the first thing, start looking at
it as a business.
Start building your businessskills.
There's great podcasts, there'sgreat books that you can read
or listen to on audio.
You can take different courses.
Work with a good business coachthat can help you where you are
(29:44):
, because there's lots ofbusiness coaches out there and
they're wonderful, but a lot ofthem are specialists and if you
don't have the basicfoundational pieces first, the
specialist is just going to helpyou crash faster.
So that would be the first one.
Dedicate regular time, at leastweekly, to working on your
(30:05):
business.
Think about, okay, what issomething that I can systematize
?
What is something I can learnabout how to better look at my
financials?
What is a networking eventwhere I can go and I can meet
other business people and starttalking about business and
learning about business, butmaking a regular, consistent
(30:25):
habit of learning about theactual business stuff, because
so many people they want tolearn all of the creative and
the actual business stuff.
Because so many people theywant to learn all of the
creative and all of that stuff.
Like I just keep chuckling.
Like I said when I spoke at theconvention for the professional
photographers of Canada, theyhad.
I think it was like close to 50different educational sessions
(30:45):
and there was only me and oneother person.
There was two people that weretalking about business everybody
.
Everything else was likephotoshop and lighting and
posing and and lenses and all ofthat stuff, which is absolutely
, but I'm going.
I think you guys missed theprofessional part, because a lot
of these people are not makingany money, like it's a glorified
hobby for them the one thatsucceed and stay in the stay in
(31:09):
the business are the ones thatare actually learning about
business.
I'm not saying don't learn aboutthe technical aspects, but if
you're not learning about thebusiness, you're missing an
awful lot Good point.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That's one thing, tammy, that I've been jumping up
and down about and screamingabout for the last few years
with the photography event inLas Vegas.
There's so much creativitythere.
It's all about shooting andposing and lighting and all the
other stuff, but there's nothingabout there's some things, but
it's very limited about how togive people a better lifestyle
(31:41):
and how to help them make moneyand how to help them, you know,
sustain their lifestyle and keepgoing and be successful.
Like it's, there's two totallydifferent planes and both are
very different, but one sort oftends to be lost quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
But people don't want to talk about, especially money
.
Money's a dirty subject.
Money's a more taboo subjectthan sex.
And I'm going, and this is whyyou're broke.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There's a, there's a few directions.
I can go there, but I'm goingto leave that.
We are G right in here.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
It's a family show and then the last one is make
sure that you are surroundingyourself with more business
people, more positive people,like one of the biggest things
that I tell people.
When you go into business, yourcircle of friends is going to
change and it doesn't meanthere's anything wrong with your
other, your old circle.
(32:27):
But you need to be spendingtime with people that you can
talk to, that you can feel safewith, that you can share ideas
with, that you can learn withand employees.
If you start trying to talkabout your business with
something, they're going to lookat you like you're speaking
Klingon, like they don't get it.
It is a completely differentmindset.
But when you're spending timewith other business people, you
(32:48):
start learning that okay, I'mnot the only person that's
having trouble with this and youget to learn.
Okay, they've been through thisdifficulty and this is how they
got over it and you can shareideas and all of this stuff.
And that is and it also helpsyou get through the days where
you're going.
Am I completely out of my mind,like, why am I doing this?
It's so stressful.
Why can't I just go back andget myself a job and then I
(33:08):
wouldn't have to worry about allof this stuff.
You need to be changing who youare spending your time with.
When I first started my business, all of my social circle were
all in place and they're stillwonderful.
People love them to pieces.
Within the first two years, allof the people that I spent I
socialized with, that I spent mytime with, were all other
business people, because Ilearned very quickly I couldn't
(33:30):
talk to my friends and I love myhusband.
I've been happily married.
We're coming up on 28 yearshere.
I cannot share my bad days withhim because it will just stress
him out, which stresses me out.
But I have a few girlfriendsthat are also entrepreneurs that
I can go.
I call them my business 911.
And we go.
We phone one another up goingdo you have a few minutes for me
(33:50):
to vent?
Okay, yes, and then we can talkone another through things.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
So those, those would be the three things.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Love that.
What do you think, Jack?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'm waiting for your last famous question.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So, tammy, I have a question that I ask all of our
guests.
If, if you were to walk outsidetoday and run into an 18 year
old version of yourself, whatadvice would you give yourself
about life, business, success,knowing what you know now?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Well, that's a good one, Because one of the main
reasons why I focus on the newbusinesses is because I go.
If I could go back and talk tome one year before I started my
business, here's what I would do.
Going back 18 would be a littlebit more, but I would say I
would have made a lot moreconscious choice on my
friendships and gotten myselfaround a lot more business
people and stuff back then,because I have learned so much
(34:38):
from the different networkinggroups and things that I have
been a part of since I became abusiness owner and just learning
from them and the conversationsand just listening.
That would be the number onething that I would say to me,
because I was always like I'vebeen studying money, business
and success since I was sevenyears old, like I'm a nerd.
This is what I, I love what Ido, but my, my social circle
(35:03):
were all employees until Ibasically started my business.
So I go.
I would have said, tammy, youneed to start spending like, you
need to start going out,networking and spending a lot
more time with business people,and that would have made a huge
difference in my life.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, love that.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Great advice.
Well, thanks so much, Tammy.
It's been a pleasure having youwith us.
I've certainly learned a lot,and a lot.
It's good to talk about stuffthat you you know.
I'm sure Ben and I've bothstruggled with a lot of this
stuff.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
You know that's human , because I didn't have that
stuff in school.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I know, I know, but I need, I need to like, not pick,
uh like a styling course for mynext gap.
It probably needs to be a zeroaccounting course or something
which you know it would be veryuseful and probably more fun
than you think.
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Well, if it's resonated withyou guys today and you'd like to
(35:57):
connect with Tammy in some way,you can find her website.
It's ksabusinessca.
You can also find her onLinkedIn, tammy Johnston, and on
Instagram, she's ksabusiness isher username.
We'll pop all of those in theshow notes, though.
Thanks so much, tammy.
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It was a lot of fun chatting with you yeah thank you
, tammy, and can I just say Ilove your passion around this.
It really flows through witheverything you say.
So, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Awesome, thank you.
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Wedding
Empires podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
My name is Ben and my name is Jack Bowie and we're
here today to dive into thegame-changing topic for wedding
professionals on businesscoaching.
So if you're kind of new to thewedding business or you're at
the point where you want to takeyour business to the next level
and you're working hard, butyou really haven't reached that
point where you're taking thathobby and making it into your
(00:25):
full-time gig, well, our guest,tammy Johnston, is going to be
an excellent help for you today.
She's a seasoned business coach.
She's got 20 years ofexperience plus and she's also
worked with a lot of weddingprofessionals and helped them
build sustainable and profitablebusinesses.
So today we're going to hearfrom her on how to make key
(00:45):
mindset shifts, financialstrategies and some practical
steps to help you move thatpassion into profit.
So, tammy, why don't we kickoff with, I guess, a little bit
about your background and howyou became a business coach for
wedding professionals?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, I work with a lot of wedding professionals and
people in all sorts of variedindustries and products and
services all around the world,and I actually sort of fell into
it because my background isactually in financial services.
I've been doing that for over 32years now and when I was pushed
to start my own business, oneof the things I started working
(01:21):
a lot with were self-employedsmall business owners.
One of the things I startedworking a lot with were
self-employed small businessowners and as I was getting into
the nitty gritty of theirfinances, one of the things that
I was discovering was theyneeded a lot of help with their
business because they weretechnicians.
They were technically very goodat providing their product or
service, but they lacked thebusiness knowledge and they were
having massive problems.
(01:42):
So I started helping them outwith their business because I
had a greedy, motivatedself-interest, because broke
people can't afford investmentsor insurance, which is the stuff
I got paid on so I startedhelping them and they started
seeing very positive resultsvery quickly and started sending
me more of their compatriotsand colleagues and things like
that and very quickly I'm goingokay, I need to better leverage
(02:05):
this and I started teachingsmall business and then in 2019,
I split my business in two.
So I still have my personalfinancial planning company,
where I look after my existingclients, and then I have KSA,
where I focus on the smallbusiness coaching.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Wow, so the business side of things is a minefield,
tammy.
It is absolutely incredible.
So what can you tell us?
What are the some of the commonmisconceptions that wedding
professionals have when they'restarting a business?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
They have a lot of the exact same misconceptions
that most people start off with,which is as long as I'm really
good at what I do, that's all Ineed.
Everybody will come because Itake great pictures, or I plan
great events, or, and they go,my work will speak for itself.
Well, most of the time.
Well, you're competing with allsorts of other people.
(02:55):
They don't even know you existand they don't have.
They're thinking as technicians, they're not thinking as
business people, and thenthey're wondering why it doesn't
work.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, I completely agree with that.
I love the technician term.
Yeah, when I first started, Ihad someone said to me you want
to be a photographer in businessas opposed to a photographer in
business.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So yeah, I work with a lot of photographers.
In fact, I spoke at theProfessional Photographers of
Canada years ago and I'm going.
Are you a hobbyist that'spaying an awful lot for your
hobby, or are you actuallymaking money doing it?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, great question.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And so why do you think wedding businesses
struggle to sort of get beyondthat glorified hobbyist phase
Like what's the missing stepthat needs to happen?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, it depends on what the wedding professional is
, because everybody goes intobusiness with strengths and they
go in with weaknesses and a lotof the stuff that actually
causes the biggest problem formost people are all the things
that they don't even know, thatthey need to know like they're
going.
Yes, I take great pictures and,like I said, we'll get back to
the technician part, but theydon't know anything about
(04:03):
marketing.
Uh, they don't know aboutpricing.
Most business people weddingprofessionals or whatever are
getting their business advicefrom their broke-ass friends and
family who have never set footin the arena and have no idea
what they're talking about.
And they might have the best ofintentions, or they might be
actually getting advice frompeople who do not want to see
them succeed.
And then they're wondering whyit's not working.
They don't have any systems puttogether.
(04:31):
I've I've worked withphotographers that did an
absolutely fabulous job, tryingto get them to finish the job or
invoice me good, freaking luck.
And then they're wondering whythey don't, why they're not in
business.
They have no idea how tostructure their day.
They don't know how to talkwith clients.
They're going I just want, Ijust want to take my pictures
and do really good or whatever.
There's so many differentaspects.
They think, as if I'm doinggood in business, I'm spending
80 to 90% of my time practicingmy craft.
(04:53):
No, if you're lucky, you'respending 10, maybe 15% actually
practicing your craft.
All the rest of your time,effort and energy goes into
everything else.
It's like that's one day.
I remember my wedding.
It was a beautiful day.
It was one day and it wasmonths of work beforehand and
(05:14):
stuff afterwards.
And that's the same with thewedding perfector.
But they're not thinking aboutit.
They're thinking about it asone day.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, tammy, I love how passionate you are about it.
I can connect with you on thatlevel because you have that
passion for this and I've gotthat passion for teaching
photography.
And when you see so much inpeople but they're not living up
to that, you're like I could.
Just I want to show you so much.
So I know it's hard to breakthings down, but if you were
(05:45):
going to give someone a handfulof key fundamental skills that
every wedding business ownermust know, what would those key
skills be?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
How many keys do you want?
Give me a handful Keys to thekingdom.
So all successful businessdoesn't matter what the industry
is.
If it's product service, itdoesn't matter where in the
world it is.
Business is business, isbusiness.
The only thing that changes areexact legal things and exact
counting and tax stuff.
But all successful businessesshare the exact same eight
(06:14):
things.
So, first off, mindset andhabits.
When you are an entrepreneur,you are running a small business
you are thinking very, verydifferently than when you are an
employee.
Everything starts and stopswith you.
You're in charge of everything,which is a blessing and a curse
, especially in the beginning,because most people have no idea
(06:34):
what they need to be doing.
So they do what's fun and easyand what they think they need to
do, and are missing out on theother things.
And then habits.
How are you structuring yourday?
How are you controllingyourself?
How are you dealing with theitty bitty, shitty committee
that's in your head getting inthe way of everything?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I love it.
I love it.
You're talking my language,Tammy Love it.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I would love to claim credit for that one, but I have
a lovely client and that's whatshe called.
I used to call mine Ahmed theinternal terrorist, but I love
the itty bitty shitty.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Ahmed, and I know exactly who you're talking about
.
Tammy, you are my hero of theday already.
Carry on, please Carry on.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Now we're all awake.
Your vision mission values Likewhat type of business are you
building?
Where are you wanting to go?
How are you going to be makingyour decisions?
Because, as business people, weare going to be facing
difficult decisions.
So do you know what yourcompass is telling you?
So, knowing those things,marketing.
(07:32):
You absolutely have to bemarketing consistently, day in,
day out, and there's 27different ways to market your
business.
You do not need to do all ofthem.
In fact, I don't do all of them.
You need to find like a handfulof things that work for you and
your business and yourpersonality type and do them
consistently and plan that youare going to be in business 10
(07:57):
years from now, because a lot ofpeople will not do business
with you until you have been inthe game for at least three
years, because they want to makesure that number one, you're
serious, that you're not just aglorified hobbyist and that they
can count on you to be in thegame as a serious business
person.
So you have to plan and actthat way.
My personal record for havingsomebody meet me to becoming a
(08:20):
client is 14 years and I've hadeverything in between.
Like they want to see thatyou're going to be around and it
takes time.
Some people will come inquickly, some people won't, but
you have to be seen on a regularbasis.
So what is your marketing planand how are you implementing it?
Advisory team.
Like I said, most people aregetting their business advice
(08:42):
from their broke ass friends andfamily who've never set foot in
the arena.
Bad advice is the worst adviceyou can get, and a lot of your
free stuff is and no matter howsmart you are, our world is
becoming more and morecomplicated.
In the horror stories I couldtell you about people who have
gotten bad advice and what ithas done to their business and
their lives Horrifying.
You need to have the rightpeople on your team.
(09:03):
Financials that's the numberone place where business people
abdicate.
I don't even say delegate, theyabdicate it.
They're going.
Unless there's millions comingin, I don't want to look at it.
I'll talk to my bookkeeper andmy accountant when I have to
sign off to pay my taxes, butother than that, stay away from
me.
Well, when they're doing that,they're missing all of the
beautiful stories that theirnumbers can tell them to help
(09:25):
them serve more people, do itbetter and make more money doing
it, because if you are notmaking money.
You are a volunteer in thewrong line Taking away my
question.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I was going to say a lot of us in this wedding
business we aren't good at thenumbers, we aren't good at the
bookkeeping that needs to bedone.
It's definitely a common issue,isn't it, ben?
I mean, you know we're so goodat the creative side and and and
that leans us into quite goodusually at instagram and some of
the marketing and things likethat, because we've got that eye
(09:57):
, the analytical.
I really struggle with that.
Like that's not my well, likeyou said, most people, people
avoid like.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I've worked with tons of people in the wedding
industry.
I've got comics as clients andartists and stuff and everybody
goes.
They think it's complicated.
If you can count, add, subtract, multiply and divide, that's
all you need.
And when I start going throughand explaining people and they
start seeing, like you said,your numbers can tell you
beautiful, incredible storiesand they start seeing that then
they get excited about it.
Because when you're familiarwith your numbers and you're not
(10:26):
afraid of them and you areregularly looking at them and
knowing what you're looking at,you can serve more people, you
can do a better job serving them, you can make more money.
And then people get reallyexcited about it.
And, like I said, if you're notmaking money, you are not in
business.
You're a glorified volunteerthat's paying because you are
going to have cost of businessand systems.
(10:47):
No systems, no business.
It's just a job that owns you.
And there's so many people thatare especially technically
brilliant.
Everything's in their head.
Well, if everything's in yourhead, you can never take a day
off, you can't delegate, youcan't do anything because
everything's in your head andyou, you, when you start getting
busy, you'll start missingthings.
I call people professionalplate spinners because they're
(11:08):
running around and as long asthey can, they're going crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
they can keep their plates up and as soon as they go
and the plates are crashing andwhat happens when you, when you
want to scale, and it's all inyour head.
I mean, you know what's in yourhead.
It's impossible.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And you can't hire assistants because everything's
in your head and there'sdifferent ways of getting it out
, and systems are an ever livingand evolving thing.
I've been running my ownbusiness for 24 years now and
I've always constantly upgradingmy systems and adding different
ones and retiring other ones,because one of the many reasons
(11:46):
why I love business is if you'rebored, you're doing it wrong,
like there's always stuff tolearn and it's magical.
And then the last two arecashflow and profit.
You have to have both.
Cashflow is like the blood.
If there's no blood, there's nobusiness.
You have to have the cashcoming in because you are always
going to have the regular bills, even if nothing else.
(12:07):
You have to eat and you need tohave a roof over your head, so
you need to have that moneycoming in.
And then profit Profit is whatyou have after all.
The bills are paid and a lot ofpeople, especially in the
beginning, do not understand howmuch it actually costs them to
run a business and they'regrossly underpricing themselves
and they're wondering whythey're not getting better
(12:28):
clients, because better clientsknow that they're underpricing
and they're not going to begetting the quality and stuff
and the cheap.
Clients are always looking forthe best deal, and they're
always going to nickel and dimeyou down.
And then you're going.
Yes, after I paid all my billsand I've been working my butt
off, there's nothing left.
What am I doing wrong?
So having all eight of thosefoundational pieces drastically
(12:51):
improves your chances of success.
Missing one or more of them,the faster and the harder you
are going to crash.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I think it's my question now, but I've been so
captivated by what you've said Ihave no idea where I'm at it
was a bit pricing, I think yeah,there's a, so let's.
So let's talk about pricing,tammy, um, how can we, how can a
wedding professional set upprofitable rates without
(13:19):
undervaluing themselves, makingsure they're covering cost of
goods, making sure they'recovering cost of goods, making
sure that they're covering allof their taxes and all that sort
of stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Well, number one you need to know what all your costs
actually are.
So I'll give a perfect examplefrom right.
When I first started with thebusiness coaching and helping
clients and I was working with aguy in the trades he did
construction stuff and I said,well, tell me, how are you
pricing yourself out, what areyour profit margins?
And I said, well, tell me, like, how are you pricing yourself
out, like, what are your profitmargins?
(13:46):
And he says, oh, that's easy.
We've got these three thingsthat we do in this.
The one business, that thing,line of business we love to do,
that's great.
We make about 35% on that,that's absolutely wonderful.
The other one we probably makeabout 20%.
And then there's this and itkind of brings people in, but
we're only making 10% on it.
And I said, okay, well, that'swonderful, how are you pricing
(14:08):
that?
What are the things that aregoing into it?
Well, he says, well, I priceout the materials, I price out
the truck and I price out thehourly rate for my guys to do it
.
And I said, okay, and then whenI actually went through with
him and going okay, well, you'vegot your WCB costs, you've got
your insurance costs, you've gotyour office costs.
You've got your accounting,you've got this, that and
everything else.
(14:28):
When we actually went throughand figured out the business
that he thought he was doing 35%, he was making about 12.
The one he thought he wasmaking 20% he was taking like a
5% hit and the one the job thathe didn't want to do was costing
him 25% because about the totalcost of his business over the
years.
So we had to fix things rightaway.
(14:49):
And there's so many people thatmake the same thing.
They're going.
It's so many hours for me to beat the shoot and there's so many
hours for me to be doing theediting or whatever, and that's
the only thing that they'relooking at.
They're forgetting about what'syour cost of insurance, what's
your cost of your marketing,what's your cost of everything
else, what's your cost ofeverything else, what's the cost
(15:12):
for all the consultations thatyou're doing with the bride and
groom and the family beforehand,and they're going okay.
This is why I have no money atthe end of the day, because or
I'm making like $2 an hour Ithought it was make, I thought I
was making at least 20, but no,when I actually factor
everything else in, I'm onlymaking two.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So so it's that old pricing equation, then of you
know sales too.
So it's that old pricingequation, then of you know sales
, minus cost of goods, minusexpenses, gives you, gives you
your net, and then you know, wework down from there.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
And that's the basic.
That's the absolute most basicstuff.
There's ways of how you arepositioning yourself, how your
marketing is put together, howyou are interacting with the
clients, where you can actuallycharge more, make more money and
have much happier people.
But it's it's knowing thosethings, because it's not the
(15:54):
cost of goods sold and the timeand stuff is just the barest,
barest minimum.
It's all the other things thatcome into it as well, but it's
learning about the business sideof it, not just point and click
or any of the other basic,invisible things.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Can I ask a question around like systems and
processes, if you're in the mostwedding, like basic wedding
business, what are the essentialprocesses and systems to run
the business?
What do you think they consistof?
I mean just as categories, evenyou know, like marketing yep
and year-round consistentmarketing crm.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
So your customer resource management, so
relationship management.
So how are you making sure thatevery interaction that you're
having with potential customers,past customers, they're all
having the same?
Because this is another thingthat comes back to when things
are in your head, you thinkyou've done things you haven't,
and if you've got two bridesthat are talking to one another,
(16:53):
well, how come she gave you allof this stuff and I only got
half of it, with the contactsand the communications or what?
Because you didn't have yoursystem.
So, having those systems,having your systems for looking
over your financials andfiguring out and and taking the
simple things like taking a lookat your calendar.
Like we all know, you guys arein Australia, so I'm not exactly
(17:14):
sure when your wedding busyseason is, but up here in North
America we're just starting toget into ours, because it's like
the end of May, june, july andAugust are our busy seasons.
Well, how much of a lead timedo you need to have in order to
turn those people into clients?
Like, if you're not marketingfor wedding season until May,
(17:35):
you've already missed everybody.
So, having those marketingsystems in the CRM, looking at
your financials and making surethat you've got your stuff put
together on a regular basis.
And when you have downtime,you've got your stuff put
together on a regular basis.
And when you have downtime,what are you doing with that
time?
Like here, I don't teachDecember, I don't teach July and
(17:55):
I don't teach August, whythere's no point.
I can have classes full andthen people are coming in from
out of town and they drop out.
So that I make sure that I amdoing very different things in
my downtimes, where a lot ofpeople it's feast and famine,
feast and famine.
So that I make sure that I amdoing very different things in
my down times, where a lot ofpeople it's feast and famine,
feast and famine.
When they're busy and theseason is, they will go flat out
(18:16):
and then they're wasting theirdowntime and then they're
wondering why they have to workso hard to get going again.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, I know that I personally learned that the hard
way in terms of marketing,because we've got a one to two
year cycle here and I realizedthat the years that I was
peddling like crazy underneaththe water and not doing any
marketing for the following yearmeant that I hurt that the next
year.
So, yeah, that's a reallyimportant one.
And I think just on that inregards to marketing, can you
(18:43):
give us some effective marketingstrategies that kind of don't
rely on social media, because Iknow that I've had the same
situation where I've had aFacebook ads account blocked for
months while I fought to get itgoing again, and if you're
solely relying on social mediaand something like that happens
and you get hacked or somethinglike that, all of a sudden
(19:03):
you're gone.
So have you got some other sortof marketing strategies for us?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I'm huge on that one and I have to work with so many,
especially on the creative side.
Social media is where you canfind people, but if that is your
only way of connecting withthem, like you said, you could
be hacked, you could be lockedout, you could piss off somebody
and matter whatever, and youcould lose everything.
I've seen it happen.
So one of the things that youneed to be doing with your
(19:29):
social media and we have to havesocial media like that is our
world.
When I started my business,social media didn't exist.
I think MySpace started upshortly thereafter, but that was
it.
The job of social media is tomove them over to your website
and be gathering thatinformation.
But I'm old school Things thatI have done podcasting works
(19:50):
wonderfully for me.
Speaking community trade shows,like everybody wants to go to
the wedding show, but thenyou're competing with everybody
when, if you're going to thesmaller shows the things that
people wouldn't think aboutyou're going to stand out an
awful lot more.
Networking is a huge one one,and networking with other people
in your industry that are notyour direct competition.
(20:13):
So when I like one of thethings I had to train people
when I was speaking for theprofessional photographers of
canada is and going.
There's a lot of photographersin here who hate doing weddings.
They would rather pull out alltheir hair than photograph a
wedding, and there was a fewpeople there that loved weddings
.
Well, you guys need to exchangeinformation.
(20:35):
So if somebody goes to theperson who does all the product
photos and they get asked well,can you do this wedding?
No, they don't want to do thewedding, they're not going to do
a good job of it either, butthey can pass off the name to
somebody who is going to do afabulous job and love doing it.
So networking is big one andmaintaining relationships with
(20:56):
your existing customers Are youever speaking to them?
Are you keeping in touch withthem after you've done all the
stuff for their wedding?
Because a lot of people forgetabout that, like you think.
Well, they should only begetting married once, and
hopefully they are.
But how many other people dothey know in their world that
are getting married Family,friends, all this stuff?
When I got married, we weregoing to a couple of weddings
(21:20):
every year for a few yearsbecause that was our circle.
So if you go, and most of ourwedding photography and other
vendors that we shared were allthe same people, because we
talked oh yeah, they did a greatjob for so-and-so's wedding.
We want them for us.
So how are you building andmaintaining those relationships?
Because, if you're thinking ofit as a one-off, you have left
(21:42):
so much money on the table andyou're going to work way better
than you have to what are someeasy ways to do that?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Obviously, you could send them an email on their
anniversary or something.
Have you had any other ideas?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I would say don't do email Old-fashioned physical
cards that go in the snail mail,because email gets lost.
How many emails do you get aday?
I get probably two to threehundred emails a day and even if
it's once, I don't have thecapacity a lot of the time to
even look at it.
But what do you get in the mail?
Typically bills or junk.
(22:15):
If you're actually gettingsomething positive, like you
could send a card that you'vemade that has a picture of their
wedding on it and going,wishing you the best of luck and
or put something in there, butit makes them Hopefully they're
still together.
Hopefully they're stilltogether.
If not, here's a divorce law orhere's the other one.
Can you help them with theirdivorce party or the next
(22:40):
wedding?
Done that, done that.
Having the personalrelationship is what matters.
We do business with people weknow, like and trust and well,
they tested you enough to dotheir wedding and you're not
looking for more business fromthem.
But you're reminding them andthey will talk to people,
especially if you did a good jobof what you did at the wedding
(23:03):
and people will ask who did thatfor you and I literally had
people go.
Yeah, they were great.
I can't even remember who theywere and they don't remember
because after the wedding wasdone, they were never heard from
again.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
It's a really good point.
It's a really simple, but we soforget that you know our
business.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It does not need to be complicated, it doesn't need
to be expensive.
But I have.
I have found because I'm big onthe snail mail and it works
(23:53):
wonders because especially nowlike we get our bills on email
and things like this, so we getnext to nothing in the mail and
I have people post all oversocial media when they're
getting their cards and stufffor me and I'm going I don't,
that's fabulous for me and it'sjust that's who I am.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah there are some little hacks like send out cards
, that that service where beneven even in like go high level
obviously we've been talking alot about lately, where you can
add into an automation a stepwhere a physical postcard gets
sent to somebody via mail, um,and it's just like one of those
like text message services, inthat you know it'll take the
(24:33):
money that you've got on file orit'll send the card that you
stipulate.
You might have createdsomething custom, sometimes in
handwriting, and everything.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Oh, you can do everything.
I do send out cards for yearsand I'm old, so I do everything
on my computer because, but youcan, can?
I've had people do it literallyfrom the app on their phone and
it is done before they'vewalked out the door.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, what's that?
Send out cards.
Send out cards.
So you two know all of thelittle.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, I'm in the manual world, so, okay, that's
cool, I'm gonna check it out butyou know, by all means, if you
want to go to Woolworths and buya pack of 100 cards, like you
can still do that, you can go onCanva and create a few of your
own cards and just have themprinted.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
That way I've done that for when I'm doing bulk
things or whatever.
Find a few things that work foryou.
But the big thing is, how areyou building and maintaining
relationships?
Because if you're thinking ofit, as soon as everything is
done, for my part in the wedding, I'm done with those people you
are.
You're shooting yourself in thefoot.
You're shooting yourself in thefoot because you have no idea
(25:36):
how many other people they knowand if they like you and they
remember you, they will send youbusiness.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, we spoke about systems in terms of, you know,
of building systems forlong-term growth and that sort
of stuff.
So I guess another aspect tothat growth is teams.
So when do you think should awedding business or a wedding
entrepreneur think aboutexpanding and bringing on a team
?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Okay, that's a very loaded question.
It's a great question, but it'skind of a loaded question
because it's not so much whenit's who are they bringing on
for the team, which I would saywould be a bigger thing.
If you're starting to getenough going and if you've got
the right people on your team,you could bring them on sooner
and expand an awful lot faster.
One of the biggest problems Ifind when people are looking at
(26:24):
expanding their team andbringing people on is they are
hiring people that are just likethem and then they're wondering
why the stuff that they don'tlike doing, the stuff that
they're not good at doing, isn'tgetting done.
So you want to be taking a lookat okay, what am I really good
at, what do I love doing andwhere am I weak and where do I
(26:45):
need help, and then finding theright people to fill in those
gaps.
Because if you have a bunch ofpeople that they just absolutely
love taking all the photos, forexample, and you don't have
anybody that wants to help outwith the systems or look after
the financials and the invoicingand doing the editing and stuff
(27:06):
, well, that stuff isn't goingto be done.
So I always have my people puttogether an org chart and at the
beginning, when you're asolopreneur, your name is going
to be in every single spot.
But if you think about what areall the different aspects of my
business?
Who's looking after themarketing?
Who's looking after thefinancials?
Who's actually interacting withthe client?
(27:28):
Who's making sure that they'regetting all of their proper
communications?
Who's making sure that we'regetting paid at the right time
and things are being lookedafter?
Look at all the differentaspects and then who can
properly fill in those jobs andthen you can really get your
business going so good.
If you're going I need, I needto be booked solid out before
(27:51):
that I bring anybody on well,then you're getting in your way,
you're slowing yourself down.
But if you're higher, if you'rebringing in the wrong people,
it doesn't mean there's anythingwrong with the people, but
they're not the right people forthe help that you need.
That's going to cause you a lotof problems too.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, so I'm tipping.
There's probably a few peopleout there that have never heard
of an org chart.
I'm sure that we all have, socan you just explain very
briefly what is an org chart?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
An organizational chart is.
Look of it as a flow chart foryour business and at the top we
have the CEO and president,who's making all the decisions
and all businesses have.
You have marketing, you haveadmin and you have operations.
Operations is like the delivery, and so who's going to be doing
(28:39):
the marketing?
What are the jobs that need tobe done for marketing, for the
financials, putting togetheryour systems, all of those
things.
And then operations who'sactually like the work that's
being done for the client andwhat are all?
I always say think of it in jobdescriptions.
So, as you're going through andgetting ready to be working
with the wedding, what are allthe little jobs and stuff that
(29:01):
needs to be done from beginningto end?
And then, where are you strong,when are you weak, and get help
for the areas that you're weakon, Roger.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Tammy, I'd like to know three easy, actionable
steps that wedding businessowners could learn from you
today to, I think, get a betterhandle on the business side of
things.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Well, I would say the first thing, start looking at
it as a business.
Start building your businessskills.
There's great podcasts, there'sgreat books that you can read
or listen to on audio.
You can take different courses.
Work with a good business coachthat can help you where you are
(29:44):
, because there's lots ofbusiness coaches out there and
they're wonderful, but a lot ofthem are specialists and if you
don't have the basicfoundational pieces first, the
specialist is just going to helpyou crash faster.
So that would be the first one.
Dedicate regular time, at leastweekly, to working on your
(30:05):
business.
Think about, okay, what issomething that I can systematize
?
What is something I can learnabout how to better look at my
financials?
What is a networking eventwhere I can go and I can meet
other business people and starttalking about business and
learning about business, butmaking a regular, consistent
(30:25):
habit of learning about theactual business stuff, because
so many people they want tolearn all of the creative and
the actual business stuff.
Because so many people theywant to learn all of the
creative and all of that stuff.
Like I just keep chuckling.
Like I said when I spoke at theconvention for the professional
photographers of Canada, theyhad.
I think it was like close to 50different educational sessions
(30:45):
and there was only me and oneother person.
There was two people that weretalking about business everybody
.
Everything else was likephotoshop and lighting and
posing and and lenses and all ofthat stuff, which is absolutely
, but I'm going.
I think you guys missed theprofessional part, because a lot
of these people are not makingany money, like it's a glorified
hobby for them the one thatsucceed and stay in the stay in
(31:09):
the business are the ones thatare actually learning about
business.
I'm not saying don't learn aboutthe technical aspects, but if
you're not learning about thebusiness, you're missing an
awful lot Good point.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That's one thing, tammy, that I've been jumping up
and down about and screamingabout for the last few years
with the photography event inLas Vegas.
There's so much creativitythere.
It's all about shooting andposing and lighting and all the
other stuff, but there's nothingabout there's some things, but
it's very limited about how togive people a better lifestyle
(31:41):
and how to help them make moneyand how to help them, you know,
sustain their lifestyle and keepgoing and be successful.
Like it's, there's two totallydifferent planes and both are
very different, but one sort oftends to be lost quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
But people don't want to talk about, especially money
.
Money's a dirty subject.
Money's a more taboo subjectthan sex.
And I'm going, and this is whyyou're broke.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There's a, there's a few directions.
I can go there, but I'm goingto leave that.
We are G right in here.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
It's a family show and then the last one is make
sure that you are surroundingyourself with more business
people, more positive people,like one of the biggest things
that I tell people.
When you go into business, yourcircle of friends is going to
change and it doesn't meanthere's anything wrong with your
other, your old circle.
(32:27):
But you need to be spendingtime with people that you can
talk to, that you can feel safewith, that you can share ideas
with, that you can learn withand employees.
If you start trying to talkabout your business with
something, they're going to lookat you like you're speaking
Klingon, like they don't get it.
It is a completely differentmindset.
But when you're spending timewith other business people, you
(32:48):
start learning that okay, I'mnot the only person that's
having trouble with this and youget to learn.
Okay, they've been through thisdifficulty and this is how they
got over it and you can shareideas and all of this stuff.
And that is and it also helpsyou get through the days where
you're going.
Am I completely out of my mind,like, why am I doing this?
It's so stressful.
Why can't I just go back andget myself a job and then I
(33:08):
wouldn't have to worry about allof this stuff.
You need to be changing who youare spending your time with.
When I first started my business, all of my social circle were
all in place and they're stillwonderful.
People love them to pieces.
Within the first two years, allof the people that I spent I
socialized with, that I spent mytime with, were all other
business people, because Ilearned very quickly I couldn't
(33:30):
talk to my friends and I love myhusband.
I've been happily married.
We're coming up on 28 yearshere.
I cannot share my bad days withhim because it will just stress
him out, which stresses me out.
But I have a few girlfriendsthat are also entrepreneurs that
I can go.
I call them my business 911.
And we go.
We phone one another up goingdo you have a few minutes for me
(33:50):
to vent?
Okay, yes, and then we can talkone another through things.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
So those, those would be the three things.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Love that.
What do you think, Jack?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'm waiting for your last famous question.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So, tammy, I have a question that I ask all of our
guests.
If, if you were to walk outsidetoday and run into an 18 year
old version of yourself, whatadvice would you give yourself
about life, business, success,knowing what you know now?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Well, that's a good one, Because one of the main
reasons why I focus on the newbusinesses is because I go.
If I could go back and talk tome one year before I started my
business, here's what I would do.
Going back 18 would be a littlebit more, but I would say I
would have made a lot moreconscious choice on my
friendships and gotten myselfaround a lot more business
people and stuff back then,because I have learned so much
(34:38):
from the different networkinggroups and things that I have
been a part of since I became abusiness owner and just learning
from them and the conversationsand just listening.
That would be the number onething that I would say to me,
because I was always like I'vebeen studying money, business
and success since I was sevenyears old, like I'm a nerd.
This is what I, I love what Ido, but my, my social circle
(35:03):
were all employees until Ibasically started my business.
So I go.
I would have said, tammy, youneed to start spending like, you
need to start going out,networking and spending a lot
more time with business people,and that would have made a huge
difference in my life.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, love that.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Great advice.
Well, thanks so much, Tammy.
It's been a pleasure having youwith us.
I've certainly learned a lot,and a lot.
It's good to talk about stuffthat you you know.
I'm sure Ben and I've bothstruggled with a lot of this
stuff.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
You know that's human , because I didn't have that
stuff in school.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I know, I know, but I need, I need to like, not pick,
uh like a styling course for mynext gap.
It probably needs to be a zeroaccounting course or something
which you know it would be veryuseful and probably more fun
than you think.
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Well, if it's resonated withyou guys today and you'd like to
(35:57):
connect with Tammy in some way,you can find her website.
It's ksabusinessca.
You can also find her onLinkedIn, tammy Johnston, and on
Instagram, she's ksabusiness isher username.
We'll pop all of those in theshow notes, though.
Thanks so much, tammy.
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It was a lot of fun chatting with you yeah thank you
, tammy, and can I just say Ilove your passion around this.
It really flows through witheverything you say.
So, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Awesome, thank you.
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