October 23, 2023 • 43 mins
Have you ever found yourself in the awkward dance of tipping and gifting at weddings, not knowing the etiquette or expectations? Well, you're not alone. We've brought in wedding industry experts Megan Noll and John C to shed some light on this complex etiquette. They're sharing their personal experiences, the standards in the industry, and even revealing the results of an Instagram poll on what wedding vendors typically receive.
Navigating the landscape of gratitude in the wedding industry can be tricky. Megan and Jon discuss how social media presence and personal relationships can influence gift giving. They also touch on the somewhat uncomfortable but necessary subject of inflation and its impact on the tipping range. They emphasize the importance of being explicit about tipping instructions. But it's not just about money. They share heartwarming stories of clients expressing their appreciation in unique and thoughtful ways. From the Brooklyn client who sent a deluxe package of bagels and cream cheese to the necklace that was so 'Megan', these gifts convey appreciation in a memorable way.
Let's not forget about the unsung heroes of the wedding industry – the vendors. Megan and John underline the value of client testimonials and feedback. They discuss the creation of an effective feedback form and how to share reviews across platforms to maximise their impact. Even after the wedding bells have stopped ringing, they stress the importance of recognising the hard work of vendors. So sit back and listen in, whether you're a vendor or a client, there's something valuable to learn for everyone.
Follow Megan and John on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/johncweddings/ https://www.instagram.com/megannollphotography/
Find them online:
https://www.johncweddings.com/
https://megannollphotography.com/
Places to go - People to see:
Kelly's Site: http://www.kellymcwilliams.com
Kelly's Blog: https://www.kellymcwilliams.com/blog
Instagram: @kellyamcwilliams
About Kelly:
Kelly knows how incredible a well planned wedding can be. Every moment counts and every decision plays a part. Wedding planning should be fun and as easy to do as possible. Besides planning weddings, Kelly travels the globe as an industry speaker. Kelly is a Martha Stewart Top Wedding Planner & this podcast won Brides magazine and WeddingWire's best podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to this Versus that making wedding
decisions with Kelly McWilliams.
This podcast is for you ifyou're making a wedding decision
and want to know what toconsider before saying I do to
all the things that will makeyour wedding experience a great
one.
I'm your host, kelly McWilliams, and I'm so glad to be a part
(00:30):
of your wedding planning journey.
In each episode, you can counton me and my expert wedding
co-hosts to give you everythingit takes to make the best
decisions for the wedding thatyou're dreaming of.
This was not intended to be arequirement, like we're not
(01:01):
putting down rules during thisepisode.
This was actually.
You're going to hear uslaughing and having a good time
during this episode, but it tooka lot of courage for each of us
to be really transparent and tosay exactly what happens in our
(01:23):
businesses, because it's anawkward subject.
It really is.
Please take some of this with agrain of salt.
But also, we get asked so oftenand it's just so awkward in the
moment to answer honestly.
So we're using this episode toput it all out there on behalf
(01:45):
of everyone in the weddingindustry.
So let me tell you about thesetwo brave souls.
Along for the ride with me.
First we have Megan Nol, who's adear friend of mine.
We've traveled together andlearned together and enjoy each
other's company, and she's justa spectacular photographer.
(02:06):
She's an internationalphotographer and an educator for
creative entrepreneurs,focusing on destination weddings
all over the world.
Megan has been featured in somany publications.
We're talking brides, carrotsand cake, ruffled soundly,
pretty destination, I do, andcountless others.
(02:28):
She's clients from Paris toHawaii, australia to California,
everywhere in between.
I mean the girls all over theplace.
She's committed she's one ofthe most committed people I've
ever met to bringing her clientsa great day with enthusiasm and
vision, bringing their visionto life on their wedding day.
(02:50):
And that's one of the things Ilove about her most.
She's just so fun and she makeswedding days fun for people.
She's a joy to be around.
So I love that about her.
And then we have John C.
I call him John C, but it'sJohn Campbell and he's a wedding
(03:11):
planner, incredible designer.
I'll never forget when I firstmet him and he was newer
Definitely new to me, but newerhere in Florida, locally.
He's a couple of hours north ofme, but I knew immediately that
this guy was going to changethe game.
He, his talent is immense, andI knew that he just had all of
(03:38):
this want and desire and passionto be really good at his craft,
and boy does it show.
So, if you have the opportunity, he's a great guy.
But he began his career inhospitality over 10 years ago.
He got his start in theindustry by managing venues and
(03:59):
catering, and then he moved intothe event planning world in
2017.
John's diverse hands-onexperience in the industry has
allowed him unique insights whenworking with couples and other
event professionals, and histalent for event design has
earned him numerous features innational publications, just like
(04:22):
Megan.
You can find him on outletslike HGTV, which is my favorite
network, martha Stewart weddings, the New York Times, stanley
Pretty, and he deserves to be onof those because he's really
that talented.
Just a great in a great person.
These are great people andthat's specifically why I chose
(04:44):
them, because I knew they wouldbe honest, I knew they would be
brave, and so I appreciated it.
Okay, so let me go ahead and getthem online and we'll talk
about tipping and gifting andtestimonials to you.
You know I'm kind of shocked,you guys, that it took me this
long to do this episode abouttipping, because every single
(05:05):
one of my clients.
Clients bring it up At somepoint.
They're like what do we do?
We tip everybody.
What do we do?
And the answer is yes.
In social environments, prettymuch everyone gets tipped.
But there's always questionsabout this and I think across
the board even like if you go tolike wedding wire or Stanley
(05:25):
Pretty or any of the carrots andcake there's different answers
on everything.
Wouldn't you agree?
Like it's yes.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
And one thing that I had noted that I wanted to talk
about was how a lot of theadvice is don't tip them if
they're a business owner, and Ijust think I feel like I should
be tipped more because I'm yourone man, snow man, like I'm
doing it all, like what do youmean?
Don't tip me.
Like you know what I mean.
So that was one thing that Iwas like.
I think that should probably bebrought up at some point.
(05:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's a bigquestion.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Okay.
So, john, you're a planner,designer, right, you do the
whole thing, and Megan, you're aphotographer, which I've
already told everybody.
So what I want to kind of layout is what seems to be the
standard that clients thinkgoing in is supposed to happen,
(06:21):
and my fingers are doing thequotes on the supposed to, and
what I usually hear back, orwhat I have for ages heard back,
was oh, will we do like the DJ,it's included with the service,
with the caterers or you know,so we don't have to worry about
them.
The band, obviously, and theneveryone else are kind of hair
(06:45):
makeup.
They get, you know, they getthe 20% for sure, and it just I
think they very often think backto what it is out like in the
outside world, not weddings.
So my hope is that we can leteveryone know what our
experience is, not even justbetween the three of us, but,
(07:06):
like you know other weddingplanners and designers and you
know Megan, other photographersand videographers and what, and
so maybe they've shared with you.
I also took a poll on Instagramand I'm going to share the
information on Instagram aboutyou know what wedding vendors
receive on a regular basis, andI will tell you, I was shocked
(07:30):
by the variances that were there, but there was definitely some
clarity in, there were someconsistencies.
So I think this is a niceopportunity to explain what is
maybe acceptable, what's neededor, you know, really like, this
(07:52):
is part of the payment.
And then also I'd like to talkabout.
You know, sometimes clientsjust want to gift us instead of
tipping or doing both, and thenI feel like we should talk about
testimonials and what's in theword for testimonials, reviews,
reviews, reviews as well,because I feel like it's all
(08:15):
kind of the same thing, not thesame thing.
There are all that is feedbackin the end.
Yes, right, right, no-transcript.
You suck, you know so.
Okay, so who wants to go firston just talking about what their
(08:38):
usual, what they usually feellike they are receiving?
Let's talk about tipping firstor no, just in general.
Let's do that.
Megan, why don't you tell uswhat you typically receive from
the greater majority of clients?
Do you receive tips?
Do you receive gifts?
Do you receive reviews andtestimonials, or is it all over
(08:59):
the place?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, I would say that for me, it's all over the
place.
Sincerely, I think that you cantell the couples that have
really paid attention to myInstagram, that know me as a
person, they know the jokes thatI make on my social media site,
because those are the peoplethat will send me a gift card to
my favorite spa, or those arethe people that will have gifts
(09:21):
for my kids or something likethat.
To me, that's really personal,but I think that if you're not
that person, it's so much easierto just tip right.
You can think that that'ssomething that I can go buy
exactly what I want.
In fact, a lot of the times Isave my tips to buy something
that I really wanted to splurgeon for myself, so that's a fun
thing to do.
(09:41):
I would say that the majorityof my clients do tip and then,
like I said, the people that Ican tell I'll be close with for
a long time, those are the onesthat I feel like end up gifting
because they know me and theyput thought into it and they
have been really intentionalthroughout the process with not
just me, just the entire guestexperience and all of that.
(10:02):
Those are those people thatkind of stick out in my mind.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Jake John, is that the same for you that the ones
that you're really close to orthey feel like they're very
close to you also give you?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
gifts.
You know it's funny, Kelly.
I think I can probably say I'vegotten one or two gifts Really
All of my time, and everyoneelse has been tips.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Okay, see, there's such a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Thank you notes a lot along with the tip, but yeah,
not really many gifts.
I've gotten one that reallystands out.
It was my initials on like alittle lapel pin that was really
sweet, but that came along witha tip as well.
Yeah, some of them are thebride, so I'm serious.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Are you, like, pretty active on social media Like, or
do you put yourself out thereon social media?
No?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
he doesn't.
I don't post a lot of criminalson social media.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Okay, not great with social media at all, but I don't
post a lot of personal stuff onmy social media now.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That might be, I think, a lot of the reason as
well.
Megan, you and I are both likepretty, like share almost
everything To mom, almosteverything.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It seems like it.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Like we're just very ourselves.
We are very ourselves and sharea lot about our families, like
the dogs, and they do know thatwe go out to eat and you know,
and things like that.
So I think you're right, megan,when you say that that they
feel like they know us, theclients that I find that do give
(11:28):
me 100%.
I feel like we're going to befriends forever, like I was a
part of their family, like itwas more than a transactional
kind of thing, and I have to saythere are times where I feel
like I want to give them at theend.
You know like they because Ifeel like they've let me into,
(11:51):
like I mean, I feel like this isan every wedding, like they've
chosen me to be a part of theirfamily for, you know, a part of,
you know, a really importantpart of their life.
So there's definitely clients Ijust feel very in tune with and
I feel like they I'm going tobe in their lives forever, like
even if it's I mean I don't eversee them again, like we're
(12:14):
going to keep in touch, you know, be on social media at least.
So so, john, do most of yourclients tip.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
All right, are either of you comfortable with saying
how much you typically gettipped Like?
And I would like for you, ifyou're comfortable enough to say
it, because I am, and I feellike that's what everyone wants
to hear is what would you liketo be tipped if I was to tip you
?
Because really, every timesomeone asked, they're like no,
(12:47):
but really how much, no, butreally how much, and it's hard
for us to like, in that moment,be like oh well, I know what
number I want, but is that right?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So let's just make it easy on everyone listening and
even if it's not like, I wouldlove to have exactly $552.
If it's, you said, said I thinka percentage, this percentage
would be great and that wouldmake me feel really happy that
you feel like I did a good job.
You know, what do you guysthink about that?
(13:18):
Are you comfortable If?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
not, absolutely no, yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Okay, make it and you can go first.
Oh, okay, sorry.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
So I would say that for me I don't I wouldn't say I
get tipped at every singlewedding and I definitely don't
get tipped at every singlewedding I.
It's really interesting to mebecause there are times where I
will just knock it out of thepark and think like, oh man, I
think that they really like.
I could see them what reallywanted to show appreciation in
(13:47):
that way.
And then it's crickets.
I think a lot of the people theplanners that I work with at
this point are have a standardtipping range where they tell
people, you know, between like$100 and $300.
To me, that is.
I can find that very confusingfor clients.
I see that like when somebodyjust hands me an envelope with
(14:09):
cash.
For me, I love it when theybreak down Okay, this goes to
this, this will go to yoursecond shooter.
This will go to your assistant.
This will go here.
Oh, okay, Because for me I'mlike there is a lot of wording
around oh, the business ownersdon't get tipped.
Which I kind of shared with youearlier was, I feel like the
business owner, like I'm a oneman, show for the most part on
(14:31):
the day of yes, I have a team, Ihave somebody who's going to
carry my bag, say, somebodywho's going to be, you know,
photographing the whole thing,but not necessarily.
I don't know how they expectthat to be tipped.
Do they expect me to take 50%and then divide the other 25% to
my team, or so that can bereally confusing.
I think in an ideal world I justwe both, we all know how
(14:53):
inflation has affected things Mepicking up lunch for my team,
and a lot of times I'll offer topick up the videographers lunch
, or you know, just the peopleyou know pick up coffee for
people, whatever.
That is $100 or $200, reallyquick on a wedding day.
So for me, I would love ideallyto at least have those kind of
extra expenditures that I'msending out on the wedding day
covering, so I think, closer toa percentage of what they've
(15:17):
paid.
You makes sense.
Now I'm not saying you have to,you know, throw 20% at me.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
No, everyone knows that.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I should have done it at the same 20%.
You know what?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I should have put a disclaimer out in the beginning
of this, like these are notrules, that were, we're just
letting you know what currentlyhappens and what your vendors
would love to see happen.
So disclaimer you do.
This is like don't go to Googleand change Wikipedia to say
(15:50):
this is what it's supposed to be.
But we, you know, we get asked,so we're letting you know this
is, we're letting, we're puttingit out there.
So you said something that I Ireally I've never done and I
will now.
When I send that sheet out, Iwill say lead photographer and
photography assistants and putpercentage out for the lead
(16:15):
photographer and like a dollaramount.
So, if I was going to do thatfor your assistance, how much
should I put a dollar?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
amount there.
I mean you could I like?
I said I really think thepercentage just because how much
I'm doing for the weddingreally depends on what you've
contracted me to do.
If I'm showing up for 10 hoursand going home, that's a lot
different than if I'm doing 12hours.
A rehearsal dinner, a brunch,an engagement session, all of
those things.
Do you know what I mean?
So to say a blanket statementof $1 to $300 for all of that, I
(16:46):
don't think that fullyencompasses the scope of work
and how many hours I'm puttinginto it.
As far as what would beaccurate for a tip.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, and the thing is, you know your clients don't
know that you're picking uplunch for everyone.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
No, they don't know that, they don't know that.
So that's not the early signsof the day.
That's just me trying to becool.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
No, no, it's like that's not an inner contract and
I will pick up lunch for thephotographer.
That's part of my wedding dayschedule.
When I stop with Publix on theway, I feel a cooler for lunch
for anyone who needs it.
Like we do beach and tentweddings all the time there's
(17:24):
nowhere to go and like it's hot,rainy, recovering dirt and sand
and all the things you knowJohn, you know John.
So like I roll up with a coolerevery wedding and you're right,
I spent a couple hundred buckswith the Lemonade's and the
Sweet Cheese and 14.
Pub Subs and you know, butbecause you want to take care of
(17:47):
the crew, you know, and we'reonly gonna do good work if we're
not starving or dehydrated orwhatever else.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So I think it's just that team mentality yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So I think that's.
I'm so glad that you broughtthat up and that's being shared,
because that's not a part ofthe thing that people know.
I think I have probably likeInstagram story that like in the
morning before a wedding whereI'm there and I'm like getting
rung up at the checkout but theydon't know that's what that's
for.
Like the setup crew John knowsabout this, megan, you're not
(18:19):
there for that part but likewhen they're bringing all those
lugging in chairs and trees andpots and dragging them all over
the place.
It is so much work and thesepeople do not make money.
So anything that I can do and Ican't tell you how many times I
myself have tipped out of mypocket for all of those people-
(18:41):
Same.
Yeah, because you see how hardthey work, you know.
So, yeah, okay, john, whatabout for you?
And I will share mine as well.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I would say I probably get tipped like 80% of
the time, and it ranges from inthe hundreds to in the thousands
.
I'm sure that you know you canrelate with that?
Yes yes, there's quite a bit ofvariation there.
There's actually it was, Ican't remember another planner
put me onto a specific one ofthose online lists and of course
(19:16):
we all know none of them arecomplete, none of them are
completely right.
But there was one that I hadseen a while back that said
something along the lines of,you know, tipping planners 10 to
20%, something like that, andso that's sort of the number
that I've always suggested toclients when they really ask.
You know, I try and pull backlittle bit.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
When they nail you down, they're like listen,
you're not getting away untilyou tell me this number.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And I'm sure again you can relate it's so much
easier to tell your clients whatto tip everyone else.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
To much harder to tell them what to tip you.
So I've just sort of alwayskind of linked them to that
particular list, which is apretty decent one.
I think inside weddings put itout, and that's kind of what
I've been using for the last fewyears.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You brought up a point, though, too, that I
thought was interesting.
I've heard a lot of plannerssay that they put out this list
but they feel weird puttingthemselves on it.
Do you guys put yourselves onyour tip sheet?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Because, it feels so awkward.
You're so right, Megan.
Yeah, it just feels reallyawkward to do that and I think
that's what makes it hard isbecause, like John, sometimes
there will be nothing, Like nahto think.
You know, we almost always getthe text message the next day,
(20:35):
and maybe we should touch on thetext message the next day
because there's two.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You already know what I'm gonna say, right.
You already know what you'regonna say.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's so funny that you guys like you were holding
back to laugh for about half asecond and you're like I'm
letting it out Because there'stwo kinds of text messages that
we get.
I'm just gonna put this all outthere.
This is gonna be the mostcontroversial episode ever.
No, there's the text messagethat was that was the most
amazing day of my life.
(21:10):
Thank you so much foreverything.
It was beyond my wildestexpectations, kelly.
You and Nicholas hit it out ofthe park.
Okay, that's version one.
Version two is exactly the same, followed by by the way, do you
know where the bouquet went?
What happened to that box thathad this and this?
(21:32):
Oh, and there was an envelopemissing from here.
And when do we get our pictures?
So immediately, yeah, verbatim,and so immediately you went
from starting this going oh,they were so happy to like, oh,
(21:53):
we're gonna get blamed forsomething you know, and it's
like almost like it just makesit all not as good.
So maybe I mean it's just Idon't think there's a way to get
around that really, but if itcould maybe be followed up with
a thank you note, that was likenot followed up by a question
(22:15):
about things.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
One of my favorite things is I've gotten thank you
cards before that say.
Words cannot explain howthankful we are.
There's no way to show you howthankful we are, and it's a
totally empty card and I'm like,oh, it's only there for
monitoring.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
If words can express dollars will.
Oh, my goodness gracious.
Okay.
So I will say that, yes, thetips that I have received and
I'm 22 years in, so I've seenthis go from one side to the
(22:56):
other it is three camps.
It is absolutely nothing,always like a text or something
I feel like I pretty much alwaysget within like a day or two,
but then tipping it'll either benothing ever, or there'll be a
gift and and a tip, which is theclients I feel like, they feel
(23:20):
like I'm very close to me.
And then for actual tips, Iwill say, when someone does give
one, it's usually betweeneither like 500 to 1000 range or
the three to $5000 range.
Now here's what I will say.
Is that, well, you know, here'swhat I do with my tips and this
(23:44):
is what I love about receivingtips versus gifts.
I take all my tips and I savethem and that pays for our
vacations every year.
So that goes like somewhereelse that gets pushed aside and
so, like that, you know, I thisis my opportunity to say that
(24:05):
you've made a vacation happenfor me and my family.
You know like we work.
This is like the extra thing weget to do because you were so
generous to us, you know, and sosometimes, like you know, our
family vacations are greatbecause we get a lot of
gratitude and then sometimes youjust have a couple of weekends
(24:26):
away, you know, like that kindof thing, but they really are
used for wonderful things.
And, megan, like you said, Iunderstand like there's that
mindset that business ownersdon't get tipped.
The weddings in general arejust, I feel, like such a
different thing.
There's really a business ownerthat you're not working with
(24:47):
for that length of time onsomething so important in your
life, and I think that's what'sdifferent about us versus
someone you go get your haircutevery five weeks you know, and
who is filling their chair eighttimes a day, you know.
So I think it's a little bit ofthe difference there.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
And to your point too , I mean most vendors,
especially at the level that youall are operating at.
It's like we aren't churningburn, we are working with 10 to
15 clients and that we have tomake our entire income on 10
clients per year.
And that's just such adifferent calculus, because I
(25:29):
know the family drama.
I know when the grandma isself-conscious about X, y and Z.
I know you know, like you know,all these very intimate
personal things about thesepeople, and so it's like I've
spent a year or sometimes moreof my life learning these things
about them and caring aboutthem and trying to treat them
the way that I would hopesomebody would treat me on my
(25:51):
wedding day.
You know what I mean.
So it's just it's not like yousaid, it's not something where
you get 10 people in your officeper day.
These are you're focused on 10people for an entire year, which
is like such a personal thing.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, fully agree with that, fully agree with that
.
You guys have anything else on,like the tipping versus gifting
, like, okay, let's put it outthere, you would you rather have
a cash tip versus a gift.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
That's tough, because if they're just guessing, I
would rather have them.
But if they also feel thatintentionally with me, then I
trust that they would giftsomething that they know that I
would.
I think it's really intimate tobuy somebody a gift.
And so when they nail it.
(26:45):
I'm like that was awful.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
You know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
And I think that also , if you're going to, if budget
is a factor, I think it's a loteasier to find a gift that costs
less dollars.
That is, has the impactmeaningfully.
Yes, If you're going to give mea $50 and a card.
That's really, really generous.
I'm never going to, you know,to feel any sort of way about
(27:10):
that, but if somebody gave me a$50 gift that was super
intentional, that is going tohave a lot bigger impact, I
think.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And one client.
It was, I think, two summersago that they were from.
I believe it was Brooklyn.
I hope they.
I believe it was Brooklyn andthere's this really amazing
bagel shop up there and theysent me the most thoughtful.
I mean, I was just like I wasblown away and I never thought
(27:42):
to send this to someone.
But there was a package, one ofthose beautiful packages.
It had a coffee mug on it andit had bagels and it had cream
cheese and it had coffee and Iwas like this is so.
And here's the thing, it wasn'teven that.
It was so me, because you knowI'm a tea drinker.
But let me tell you why I drankthat coffee.
(28:03):
It was them, like it was, sothem you know, and I was like
their wedding was so Brooklynand I, like I appreciated it so
much because they were trying togive me a little bit more of
them and I loved and adore that.
And then that same year I hadanother client who got me the
most beautiful necklace and theyknew my style that well that
(28:24):
when I opened this I was likethis is so me, like I, and I
cherish that necklace, I love itso much.
I even got a bracelet thatmatches it from the same jeweler
.
You guys, you can't see itbecause you guys aren't watching
it, but I'm showing ohbeautiful, oh pretty, yeah,
pretty so, um, yeah, okay.
(28:46):
So before we went on a time, Ifeel like we should talk about
testimonials because they're Ithink that they're separate from
tipping and gifting, but theyare at the end, when we're done
with our job, and so that's whatall the stuff, all of this
happens really.
So how do you guys prefer toget testimonials or reviews or
(29:12):
feedback to any, to either ofyou do like feedback
questionnaires?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I have toyed with the idea.
I just I'm always worried thatit's going to prime clients to
try to think of thingsnegatively.
I feel like when I'm writing areview I think about it
holistically of you know, do I,do I?
What would I improve on?
What would I?
You know?
And so I feel like I don't wantto start priming them to think
(29:37):
about something negative thatprobably wasn't that they could
feel if they weren't outwardlylike.
You know what I mean.
I don't know.
Do you guys resonate with anyof you?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Definitely I actually so instead of doing a survey or
a questionnaire, I do anoff-boarding call.
Oh, not all clients say yes,but a lot of them do, and so
it's kind of like a time for usto a little bit dish about like
the behind the scenes, becausemy clients always want to know,
they want to know those stuffAbout all the fires.
(30:10):
So it's kind of fun to like givethem like that glimpse into
their day.
But also I and I'll give them aheads up in advance that I like
to ask you know what aboutwedding day and my process?
Did you enjoy?
What didn't you love or couldbe better?
And you know a lot of themdon't have anything Some of them
do, but it has but actually insome cases been really nice
(30:31):
feedback and things that havebeen super helpful that I have
implemented in the future sothat other clients could, you
know, benefit from thatexperience.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And it's usually teeny little things, but you
know you don't always get theclient.
I mean, as a professional, wedon't exactly know what our
clients are thinking in themoment.
It's cool to get that feedbackafterwards.
I do want to say I was thinkingit earlier when, kelly, when
you asked what we prefer tippingversus gifting.
If I had to choose between thethree, I would say a really
(31:02):
thoughtful, lengthy keyword,testimonial or review is my
preference.
Above all else.
I see that as a long-terminvestment in my business that
my clients, can you know, giveme to show gratitude.
Of course you know all of theabove is super thoughtful and
sweet and nice to have, but youknow, I think reviews are the
(31:25):
unsung heroes of our businessesin so many ways and I don't know
if clients really recognizethat, especially after the fact,
when life happens and we getbusy.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I agree.
So we I am different from mostin that I'm not about online
reviews, but we do send outfeedback forms and just say hey,
would you mind entering fivequestions?
(31:54):
I think it's got five questionsI don't even know if it's that
many, but it's their prompts sothat we can find out what we did
right and what we can improveon.
And I will tell you, megan, itis rare that we get anything
that's just negative.
It's almost like they find thegood in things, and where
(32:22):
there's things that they wouldhave loved to have, they make it
still sound nice.
Do you know what I mean?
Like we've gotten one, no,we've gotten two where it was
day of coordination and thingsdid not go the way they hoped
because it rained and we didn'tplan the wedding, so we weren't
(32:46):
responsible for ordering a tent.
Both of the instances.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You mean you can't control the weather?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I know I'm really disappointed in Kelly.
I mean, even after 20 some oddyears I haven't figured that
part out.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Can you imagine how much money I would make?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
But now there's Andrew.
Leave it from what's it, whichis what somebody?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
called Epa iconic reports.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
So now we have him to blame.
No, I think his service isamazing.
If you can get it, because boyhe calls it, he's so accurate.
I should do an episode with him, because I can't control the
weather and he can't either, buthe can certainly tell us what's
(33:32):
actually gonna happen, otherthan us just pulling it up on
the radar.
Megan, you look like you'regonna say something.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah, in regards to asking for reviews, things like
that, I think it's reallyimportant to, like John said, be
really thoughtful about whatyou're actually saying.
Just being like Megan, it wasgreat, that's so nice, but if
you can point to specific painpoints that were caused or not,
they're gonna cause.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
When.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I hope it's the opposite.
No, but I think that if you canpoint to specific things that
were pain points for you that wehelped to navigate around,
please do that.
Google helps with actual SEO,so it actually helps your
website to perform better in alot of cases.
So that is important, but evenmore so than that, it's easy to
(34:24):
get caught up in oh, the knot,the wedding wire, whether it's
on Google or whatever.
Honestly, shouting this out onsocial media, making sure you
tag your creative partners whenyou're posting your wedding
photos, those kinds of thingsmatter so much more because the
social proof and you saying,look, I hired this photographer,
I hired this planner, I hiredthis video team and they were
(34:47):
incredible.
I would hire them again andagain and again and shouting
that to your network means somuch more to me than some cheesy
thing on the knot or wherever.
That matters so much more ifyou're talking about where a
review is most impactful.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, and when you do it that way, that's somewhere
you're already at.
Do you know what I mean?
You're already looking onInstagram and I will say I'm so
glad that you said this, megan,because there have been so many
weddings where wedding guestsshout this out even and let me
(35:24):
tell you, my heart skips a beatwhen I see things like that oh
my gosh, they really appreciatedthat we had band-aids and
tampons and aspirin in thebathroom.
That makes me so happy.
Or so-and-so saved the day.
Or we're so glad that the DJdidn't let the uncle Larry, who
(35:50):
had too much to drink, keep themicrophone.
He was so good because he didthat.
You know those.
You're right, those notes go sofar and we can screenshot those
and use them over and overagain.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
So, yeah, and another thing I want to change-.
Sorry one more thing I'll justadd is that if you are confused
about okay, where do I post areview, it's so easy to just
copy and paste it acrossplatforms.
So if you have taken the timeto go write something really
thoughtful, it really is anothertwo more minutes to say, okay,
(36:24):
now I'm gonna post it here andhere, and then all of the bases
are covered.
So that's something else.
I'd like to point out.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And as things are delivered toyou, you know it's great, like
even if you sent, like, a thankyou note in, like right after
the wedding, or sent a textmessage, like when you get your
photography or when you get yourvideo, or when you get your
preserved flowers, like whenthose things come in.
(36:50):
Oh my gosh, can I just tell youand I know you were so, megan
Please let these people knowthat you love what you see like,
acknowledge it.
I wish you guys could seeMegan's face right now.
I'm sorry, I don't even have myphone to take a picture of this
(37:12):
.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
You see, a lot of times that we get ghosted and
it's because it's so easy tojump like I'm delivering a
tangible product after the fact.
You guys do all your hard workbefore and at the wedding day.
A lot of my work is after thewedding because I'm sitting in
front of my computer editing forhours and hours and hours.
A lot of times it's so easy towanna jump into that gallery and
relive all the moments and sendthem to your friends and family
(37:33):
.
Please do all of that.
But can you just like let meknow that you got it and that
you like them, because myanxiety riddled brain is when
you run it over a hundred times,they haven't responded.
They must hate them, they musthate me.
What would run?
Just hey, I got these and Ilove them so much.
Even if you don't have time towrite out a huge thoughtful
thank you, please just let meknow.
(37:55):
That would be great.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah and John, is it this way for you too?
Like when you don't hearsomething within like 48 hours
of the wedding?
If you didn't get the textmessage, like I am like I must
have really screwed up, likesomething is wrong.
Like, if you hear nothing, Iwould even rather get the hey,
where's the card box?
Text.
Then absolutely nothing,because then it's so bad that we
(38:21):
go there.
But we like doubt our work moreoften because it's high stakes.
We get one chance, one chanceto get everything right for you,
and so if we don't hear thateverything was at least okay, we
are like think, like we thinkthat things.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Well, and we're creatives and we don't have
coworkers the same way, you knoweverybody does, so it is
something where you don't havethat constant feedback going on.
So you are.
It feels like our the peoplethat hire us end up feeling like
our coworkers, so it's like wewant to know how it went for
them.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, you guys, this is such a good episode.
Do you have any last thoughts?
Because we're over our limit.
See, I told you, I told you wecan just sit here and talk for
ages about all things, but didyou have any last thoughts?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I think, I know, I think we're good John.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Please don't ghost Megan.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Don't go to anyone.
I mean, I just feel like it's,it's such a simple thing to like
, just send a quick text messageand say we are happy is Two
elephants in a safari land?
I make it.
I mean, I don't know, I don'tknow, but yeah, I mean just If
(39:47):
you send a little no everyone's,it goes a long way.
It's okay, so we've decided.
It's totally cool and weappreciate when you ask any and
all people About tipping themand they will be honest with you
.
For planners, it is a hard foryou, you know.
Now it's hard for us to behonest with you and to tell you
(40:10):
the truth and that I'm justgonna send people the link to
this episode from now on.
But yeah, I think I think weall.
My batteries are in low, sothat means that we have to end
the show.
But this has been great guys.
I feel like we really puteverything out there.
(40:30):
I'm gonna do another Instagramsurvey.
I collected like Dozens anddozens of responses beforehand
so I can kind of put that outthere so people have some
insight into what people werethinking before the show and
after the show and all that jazz.
But I really appreciate youbeing on and I loved this
episode and Maybe we'll get backtogether.
(40:52):
You guys were fun.
We're good trio.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Absolutely, oh tell everyone.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
This episode was supposed to be recorded on
September 28th 2022, and onSeptember 28th 2022, hurricane
Ian came through, and so we hadto like.
I don't even know if we calledit that morning or the night
before I called it that morning.
(41:19):
I think it was that morning,because we didn't know until
that morning.
That is coming directly at me,and, john, you're just two hours
north.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It was supposed to come to me.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
It was supposed to come to him.
So I I don't I don't rememberwho which one of us texted first
going are we doing this?
And I think we all were justlike you probably shouldn't, and
then I think I probably didn'thave power like an hour later.
So thank you for waiting nearlya year to get this done, but
I'm, I think it was veryworthwhile.
(41:51):
You guys thank you both so much.
I really appreciate you beingon the show.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I'm so glad to be able to share my wedding
Experiences and expertise withyou, and that my co-hosts are so
giving it theirs.
We truly do want you to havethe best time at your wedding,
and our hope is that thispodcast is helping you to make
your engagement time whileplanning your wedding that much
easier.
May I ask a favor of you?
(42:17):
If this is the case, would youjust take a moment to leave a
review of this podcast on yourlistening platform?
It helps people just like youto find the Podcast and to also
find out their answer so theycan make decisions.
I would also absolutely lovefor you to give this versus that
podcast a shout out on yoursocial media.
(42:39):
You can find us at this versusthat wedding podcast on
Instagram, and if you would likeme to help you with a specific
question, a wedding decisionplease by all means ask.
Send me a DM.
I would love to hear from youand maybe, just maybe even have
you as a wedding cast on afuture episode.
(43:01):
How fun you just do.
Another great wedding.
Hello and welcome to this Versus that making wedding
decisions with Kelly McWilliams.
This podcast is for you ifyou're making a wedding decision
and want to know what toconsider before saying I do to
all the things that will makeyour wedding experience a great
one.
I'm your host, kelly McWilliams, and I'm so glad to be a part
(00:30):
of your wedding planning journey.
In each episode, you can counton me and my expert wedding
co-hosts to give you everythingit takes to make the best
decisions for the wedding thatyou're dreaming of.
This was not intended to be arequirement, like we're not
(01:01):
putting down rules during thisepisode.
This was actually.
You're going to hear uslaughing and having a good time
during this episode, but it tooka lot of courage for each of us
to be really transparent and tosay exactly what happens in our
(01:23):
businesses, because it's anawkward subject.
It really is.
Please take some of this with agrain of salt.
But also, we get asked so oftenand it's just so awkward in the
moment to answer honestly.
So we're using this episode toput it all out there on behalf
(01:45):
of everyone in the weddingindustry.
So let me tell you about thesetwo brave souls.
Along for the ride with me.
First we have Megan Nol, who's adear friend of mine.
We've traveled together andlearned together and enjoy each
other's company, and she's justa spectacular photographer.
(02:06):
She's an internationalphotographer and an educator for
creative entrepreneurs,focusing on destination weddings
all over the world.
Megan has been featured in somany publications.
We're talking brides, carrotsand cake, ruffled soundly,
pretty destination, I do, andcountless others.
(02:28):
She's clients from Paris toHawaii, australia to California,
everywhere in between.
I mean the girls all over theplace.
She's committed she's one ofthe most committed people I've
ever met to bringing her clientsa great day with enthusiasm and
vision, bringing their visionto life on their wedding day.
(02:50):
And that's one of the things Ilove about her most.
She's just so fun and she makeswedding days fun for people.
She's a joy to be around.
So I love that about her.
And then we have John C.
I call him John C, but it'sJohn Campbell and he's a wedding
(03:11):
planner, incredible designer.
I'll never forget when I firstmet him and he was newer
Definitely new to me, but newerhere in Florida, locally.
He's a couple of hours north ofme, but I knew immediately that
this guy was going to changethe game.
He, his talent is immense, andI knew that he just had all of
(03:38):
this want and desire and passionto be really good at his craft,
and boy does it show.
So, if you have the opportunity, he's a great guy.
But he began his career inhospitality over 10 years ago.
He got his start in theindustry by managing venues and
(03:59):
catering, and then he moved intothe event planning world in
2017.
John's diverse hands-onexperience in the industry has
allowed him unique insights whenworking with couples and other
event professionals, and histalent for event design has
earned him numerous features innational publications, just like
(04:22):
Megan.
You can find him on outletslike HGTV, which is my favorite
network, martha Stewart weddings, the New York Times, stanley
Pretty, and he deserves to be onof those because he's really
that talented.
Just a great in a great person.
These are great people andthat's specifically why I chose
(04:44):
them, because I knew they wouldbe honest, I knew they would be
brave, and so I appreciated it.
Okay, so let me go ahead and getthem online and we'll talk
about tipping and gifting andtestimonials to you.
You know I'm kind of shocked,you guys, that it took me this
long to do this episode abouttipping, because every single
(05:05):
one of my clients.
Clients bring it up At somepoint.
They're like what do we do?
We tip everybody.
What do we do?
And the answer is yes.
In social environments, prettymuch everyone gets tipped.
But there's always questionsabout this and I think across
the board even like if you go tolike wedding wire or Stanley
(05:25):
Pretty or any of the carrots andcake there's different answers
on everything.
Wouldn't you agree?
Like it's yes.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
And one thing that I had noted that I wanted to talk
about was how a lot of theadvice is don't tip them if
they're a business owner, and Ijust think I feel like I should
be tipped more because I'm yourone man, snow man, like I'm
doing it all, like what do youmean?
Don't tip me.
Like you know what I mean.
So that was one thing that Iwas like.
I think that should probably bebrought up at some point.
(05:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's a bigquestion.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Okay.
So, john, you're a planner,designer, right, you do the
whole thing, and Megan, you're aphotographer, which I've
already told everybody.
So what I want to kind of layout is what seems to be the
standard that clients thinkgoing in is supposed to happen,
(06:21):
and my fingers are doing thequotes on the supposed to, and
what I usually hear back, orwhat I have for ages heard back,
was oh, will we do like the DJ,it's included with the service,
with the caterers or you know,so we don't have to worry about
them.
The band, obviously, and theneveryone else are kind of hair
(06:45):
makeup.
They get, you know, they getthe 20% for sure, and it just I
think they very often think backto what it is out like in the
outside world, not weddings.
So my hope is that we can leteveryone know what our
experience is, not even justbetween the three of us, but,
(07:06):
like you know other weddingplanners and designers and you
know Megan, other photographersand videographers and what, and
so maybe they've shared with you.
I also took a poll on Instagramand I'm going to share the
information on Instagram aboutyou know what wedding vendors
receive on a regular basis, andI will tell you, I was shocked
(07:30):
by the variances that were there, but there was definitely some
clarity in, there were someconsistencies.
So I think this is a niceopportunity to explain what is
maybe acceptable, what's neededor, you know, really like, this
(07:52):
is part of the payment.
And then also I'd like to talkabout.
You know, sometimes clientsjust want to gift us instead of
tipping or doing both, and thenI feel like we should talk about
testimonials and what's in theword for testimonials, reviews,
reviews, reviews as well,because I feel like it's all
(08:15):
kind of the same thing, not thesame thing.
There are all that is feedbackin the end.
Yes, right, right, no-transcript.
You suck, you know so.
Okay, so who wants to go firston just talking about what their
(08:38):
usual, what they usually feellike they are receiving?
Let's talk about tipping firstor no, just in general.
Let's do that.
Megan, why don't you tell uswhat you typically receive from
the greater majority of clients?
Do you receive tips?
Do you receive gifts?
Do you receive reviews andtestimonials, or is it all over
(08:59):
the place?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, I would say that for me, it's all over the
place.
Sincerely, I think that you cantell the couples that have
really paid attention to myInstagram, that know me as a
person, they know the jokes thatI make on my social media site,
because those are the peoplethat will send me a gift card to
my favorite spa, or those arethe people that will have gifts
(09:21):
for my kids or something likethat.
To me, that's really personal,but I think that if you're not
that person, it's so much easierto just tip right.
You can think that that'ssomething that I can go buy
exactly what I want.
In fact, a lot of the times Isave my tips to buy something
that I really wanted to splurgeon for myself, so that's a fun
thing to do.
(09:41):
I would say that the majorityof my clients do tip and then,
like I said, the people that Ican tell I'll be close with for
a long time, those are the onesthat I feel like end up gifting
because they know me and theyput thought into it and they
have been really intentionalthroughout the process with not
just me, just the entire guestexperience and all of that.
(10:02):
Those are those people thatkind of stick out in my mind.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Jake John, is that the same for you that the ones
that you're really close to orthey feel like they're very
close to you also give you?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
gifts.
You know it's funny, Kelly.
I think I can probably say I'vegotten one or two gifts Really
All of my time, and everyoneelse has been tips.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Okay, see, there's such a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Thank you notes a lot along with the tip, but yeah,
not really many gifts.
I've gotten one that reallystands out.
It was my initials on like alittle lapel pin that was really
sweet, but that came along witha tip as well.
Yeah, some of them are thebride, so I'm serious.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Are you, like, pretty active on social media Like, or
do you put yourself out thereon social media?
No?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
he doesn't.
I don't post a lot of criminalson social media.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Okay, not great with social media at all, but I don't
post a lot of personal stuff onmy social media now.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That might be, I think, a lot of the reason as
well.
Megan, you and I are both likepretty, like share almost
everything To mom, almosteverything.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It seems like it.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Like we're just very ourselves.
We are very ourselves and sharea lot about our families, like
the dogs, and they do know thatwe go out to eat and you know,
and things like that.
So I think you're right, megan,when you say that that they
feel like they know us, theclients that I find that do give
(11:28):
me 100%.
I feel like we're going to befriends forever, like I was a
part of their family, like itwas more than a transactional
kind of thing, and I have to saythere are times where I feel
like I want to give them at theend.
You know like they because Ifeel like they've let me into,
(11:51):
like I mean, I feel like this isan every wedding, like they've
chosen me to be a part of theirfamily for, you know, a part of,
you know, a really importantpart of their life.
So there's definitely clients Ijust feel very in tune with and
I feel like they I'm going tobe in their lives forever, like
even if it's I mean I don't eversee them again, like we're
(12:14):
going to keep in touch, you know, be on social media at least.
So so, john, do most of yourclients tip.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
All right, are either of you comfortable with saying
how much you typically gettipped Like?
And I would like for you, ifyou're comfortable enough to say
it, because I am, and I feellike that's what everyone wants
to hear is what would you liketo be tipped if I was to tip you
?
Because really, every timesomeone asked, they're like no,
(12:47):
but really how much, no, butreally how much, and it's hard
for us to like, in that moment,be like oh well, I know what
number I want, but is that right?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So let's just make it easy on everyone listening and
even if it's not like, I wouldlove to have exactly $552.
If it's, you said, said I thinka percentage, this percentage
would be great and that wouldmake me feel really happy that
you feel like I did a good job.
You know, what do you guysthink about that?
(13:18):
Are you comfortable If?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
not, absolutely no, yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Okay, make it and you can go first.
Oh, okay, sorry.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
So I would say that for me I don't I wouldn't say I
get tipped at every singlewedding and I definitely don't
get tipped at every singlewedding I.
It's really interesting to mebecause there are times where I
will just knock it out of thepark and think like, oh man, I
think that they really like.
I could see them what reallywanted to show appreciation in
(13:47):
that way.
And then it's crickets.
I think a lot of the people theplanners that I work with at
this point are have a standardtipping range where they tell
people, you know, between like$100 and $300.
To me, that is.
I can find that very confusingfor clients.
I see that like when somebodyjust hands me an envelope with
(14:09):
cash.
For me, I love it when theybreak down Okay, this goes to
this, this will go to yoursecond shooter.
This will go to your assistant.
This will go here.
Oh, okay, Because for me I'mlike there is a lot of wording
around oh, the business ownersdon't get tipped.
Which I kind of shared with youearlier was, I feel like the
business owner, like I'm a oneman, show for the most part on
(14:31):
the day of yes, I have a team, Ihave somebody who's going to
carry my bag, say, somebodywho's going to be, you know,
photographing the whole thing,but not necessarily.
I don't know how they expectthat to be tipped.
Do they expect me to take 50%and then divide the other 25% to
my team, or so that can bereally confusing.
I think in an ideal world I justwe both, we all know how
(14:53):
inflation has affected things Mepicking up lunch for my team,
and a lot of times I'll offer topick up the videographers lunch
, or you know, just the peopleyou know pick up coffee for
people, whatever.
That is $100 or $200, reallyquick on a wedding day.
So for me, I would love ideallyto at least have those kind of
extra expenditures that I'msending out on the wedding day
covering, so I think, closer toa percentage of what they've
(15:17):
paid.
You makes sense.
Now I'm not saying you have to,you know, throw 20% at me.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
No, everyone knows that.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I should have done it at the same 20%.
You know what?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I should have put a disclaimer out in the beginning
of this, like these are notrules, that were, we're just
letting you know what currentlyhappens and what your vendors
would love to see happen.
So disclaimer you do.
This is like don't go to Googleand change Wikipedia to say
(15:50):
this is what it's supposed to be.
But we, you know, we get asked,so we're letting you know this
is, we're letting, we're puttingit out there.
So you said something that I Ireally I've never done and I
will now.
When I send that sheet out, Iwill say lead photographer and
photography assistants and putpercentage out for the lead
(16:15):
photographer and like a dollaramount.
So, if I was going to do thatfor your assistance, how much
should I put a dollar?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
amount there.
I mean you could I like?
I said I really think thepercentage just because how much
I'm doing for the weddingreally depends on what you've
contracted me to do.
If I'm showing up for 10 hoursand going home, that's a lot
different than if I'm doing 12hours.
A rehearsal dinner, a brunch,an engagement session, all of
those things.
Do you know what I mean?
So to say a blanket statementof $1 to $300 for all of that, I
(16:46):
don't think that fullyencompasses the scope of work
and how many hours I'm puttinginto it.
As far as what would beaccurate for a tip.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, and the thing is, you know your clients don't
know that you're picking uplunch for everyone.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
No, they don't know that, they don't know that.
So that's not the early signsof the day.
That's just me trying to becool.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
No, no, it's like that's not an inner contract and
I will pick up lunch for thephotographer.
That's part of my wedding dayschedule.
When I stop with Publix on theway, I feel a cooler for lunch
for anyone who needs it.
Like we do beach and tentweddings all the time there's
(17:24):
nowhere to go and like it's hot,rainy, recovering dirt and sand
and all the things you knowJohn, you know John.
So like I roll up with a coolerevery wedding and you're right,
I spent a couple hundred buckswith the Lemonade's and the
Sweet Cheese and 14.
Pub Subs and you know, butbecause you want to take care of
(17:47):
the crew, you know, and we'reonly gonna do good work if we're
not starving or dehydrated orwhatever else.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So I think it's just that team mentality yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So I think that's.
I'm so glad that you broughtthat up and that's being shared,
because that's not a part ofthe thing that people know.
I think I have probably likeInstagram story that like in the
morning before a wedding whereI'm there and I'm like getting
rung up at the checkout but theydon't know that's what that's
for.
Like the setup crew John knowsabout this, megan, you're not
(18:19):
there for that part but likewhen they're bringing all those
lugging in chairs and trees andpots and dragging them all over
the place.
It is so much work and thesepeople do not make money.
So anything that I can do and Ican't tell you how many times I
myself have tipped out of mypocket for all of those people-
(18:41):
Same.
Yeah, because you see how hardthey work, you know.
So, yeah, okay, john, whatabout for you?
And I will share mine as well.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I would say I probably get tipped like 80% of
the time, and it ranges from inthe hundreds to in the thousands
.
I'm sure that you know you canrelate with that?
Yes yes, there's quite a bit ofvariation there.
There's actually it was, Ican't remember another planner
put me onto a specific one ofthose online lists and of course
(19:16):
we all know none of them arecomplete, none of them are
completely right.
But there was one that I hadseen a while back that said
something along the lines of,you know, tipping planners 10 to
20%, something like that, andso that's sort of the number
that I've always suggested toclients when they really ask.
You know, I try and pull backlittle bit.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
When they nail you down, they're like listen,
you're not getting away untilyou tell me this number.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And I'm sure again you can relate it's so much
easier to tell your clients whatto tip everyone else.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
To much harder to tell them what to tip you.
So I've just sort of alwayskind of linked them to that
particular list, which is apretty decent one.
I think inside weddings put itout, and that's kind of what
I've been using for the last fewyears.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You brought up a point, though, too, that I
thought was interesting.
I've heard a lot of plannerssay that they put out this list
but they feel weird puttingthemselves on it.
Do you guys put yourselves onyour tip sheet?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Because, it feels so awkward.
You're so right, Megan.
Yeah, it just feels reallyawkward to do that and I think
that's what makes it hard isbecause, like John, sometimes
there will be nothing, Like nahto think.
You know, we almost always getthe text message the next day,
(20:35):
and maybe we should touch on thetext message the next day
because there's two.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You already know what I'm gonna say, right.
You already know what you'regonna say.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's so funny that you guys like you were holding
back to laugh for about half asecond and you're like I'm
letting it out Because there'stwo kinds of text messages that
we get.
I'm just gonna put this all outthere.
This is gonna be the mostcontroversial episode ever.
No, there's the text messagethat was that was the most
amazing day of my life.
(21:10):
Thank you so much foreverything.
It was beyond my wildestexpectations, kelly.
You and Nicholas hit it out ofthe park.
Okay, that's version one.
Version two is exactly the same, followed by by the way, do you
know where the bouquet went?
What happened to that box thathad this and this?
(21:32):
Oh, and there was an envelopemissing from here.
And when do we get our pictures?
So immediately, yeah, verbatim,and so immediately you went
from starting this going oh,they were so happy to like, oh,
(21:53):
we're gonna get blamed forsomething you know, and it's
like almost like it just makesit all not as good.
So maybe I mean it's just Idon't think there's a way to get
around that really, but if itcould maybe be followed up with
a thank you note, that was likenot followed up by a question
(22:15):
about things.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
One of my favorite things is I've gotten thank you
cards before that say.
Words cannot explain howthankful we are.
There's no way to show you howthankful we are, and it's a
totally empty card and I'm like,oh, it's only there for
monitoring.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
If words can express dollars will.
Oh, my goodness gracious.
Okay.
So I will say that, yes, thetips that I have received and
I'm 22 years in, so I've seenthis go from one side to the
(22:56):
other it is three camps.
It is absolutely nothing,always like a text or something
I feel like I pretty much alwaysget within like a day or two,
but then tipping it'll either benothing ever, or there'll be a
gift and and a tip, which is theclients I feel like, they feel
(23:20):
like I'm very close to me.
And then for actual tips, Iwill say, when someone does give
one, it's usually betweeneither like 500 to 1000 range or
the three to $5000 range.
Now here's what I will say.
Is that, well, you know, here'swhat I do with my tips and this
(23:44):
is what I love about receivingtips versus gifts.
I take all my tips and I savethem and that pays for our
vacations every year.
So that goes like somewhereelse that gets pushed aside and
so, like that, you know, I thisis my opportunity to say that
(24:05):
you've made a vacation happenfor me and my family.
You know like we work.
This is like the extra thing weget to do because you were so
generous to us, you know, and sosometimes, like you know, our
family vacations are greatbecause we get a lot of
gratitude and then sometimes youjust have a couple of weekends
(24:26):
away, you know, like that kindof thing, but they really are
used for wonderful things.
And, megan, like you said, Iunderstand like there's that
mindset that business ownersdon't get tipped.
The weddings in general arejust, I feel, like such a
different thing.
There's really a business ownerthat you're not working with
(24:47):
for that length of time onsomething so important in your
life, and I think that's what'sdifferent about us versus
someone you go get your haircutevery five weeks you know, and
who is filling their chair eighttimes a day, you know.
So I think it's a little bit ofthe difference there.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
And to your point too , I mean most vendors,
especially at the level that youall are operating at.
It's like we aren't churningburn, we are working with 10 to
15 clients and that we have tomake our entire income on 10
clients per year.
And that's just such adifferent calculus, because I
(25:29):
know the family drama.
I know when the grandma isself-conscious about X, y and Z.
I know you know, like you know,all these very intimate
personal things about thesepeople, and so it's like I've
spent a year or sometimes moreof my life learning these things
about them and caring aboutthem and trying to treat them
the way that I would hopesomebody would treat me on my
(25:51):
wedding day.
You know what I mean.
So it's just it's not like yousaid, it's not something where
you get 10 people in your officeper day.
These are you're focused on 10people for an entire year, which
is like such a personal thing.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, fully agree with that, fully agree with that
.
You guys have anything else on,like the tipping versus gifting
, like, okay, let's put it outthere, you would you rather have
a cash tip versus a gift.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
That's tough, because if they're just guessing, I
would rather have them.
But if they also feel thatintentionally with me, then I
trust that they would giftsomething that they know that I
would.
I think it's really intimate tobuy somebody a gift.
And so when they nail it.
(26:45):
I'm like that was awful.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
You know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
And I think that also , if you're going to, if budget
is a factor, I think it's a loteasier to find a gift that costs
less dollars.
That is, has the impactmeaningfully.
Yes, If you're going to give mea $50 and a card.
That's really, really generous.
I'm never going to, you know,to feel any sort of way about
(27:10):
that, but if somebody gave me a$50 gift that was super
intentional, that is going tohave a lot bigger impact, I
think.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And one client.
It was, I think, two summersago that they were from.
I believe it was Brooklyn.
I hope they.
I believe it was Brooklyn andthere's this really amazing
bagel shop up there and theysent me the most thoughtful.
I mean, I was just like I wasblown away and I never thought
(27:42):
to send this to someone.
But there was a package, one ofthose beautiful packages.
It had a coffee mug on it andit had bagels and it had cream
cheese and it had coffee and Iwas like this is so.
And here's the thing, it wasn'teven that.
It was so me, because you knowI'm a tea drinker.
But let me tell you why I drankthat coffee.
(28:03):
It was them, like it was, sothem you know, and I was like
their wedding was so Brooklynand I, like I appreciated it so
much because they were trying togive me a little bit more of
them and I loved and adore that.
And then that same year I hadanother client who got me the
most beautiful necklace and theyknew my style that well that
(28:24):
when I opened this I was likethis is so me, like I, and I
cherish that necklace, I love itso much.
I even got a bracelet thatmatches it from the same jeweler
.
You guys, you can't see itbecause you guys aren't watching
it, but I'm showing ohbeautiful, oh pretty, yeah,
pretty so, um, yeah, okay.
(28:46):
So before we went on a time, Ifeel like we should talk about
testimonials because they're Ithink that they're separate from
tipping and gifting, but theyare at the end, when we're done
with our job, and so that's whatall the stuff, all of this
happens really.
So how do you guys prefer toget testimonials or reviews or
(29:12):
feedback to any, to either ofyou do like feedback
questionnaires?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I have toyed with the idea.
I just I'm always worried thatit's going to prime clients to
try to think of thingsnegatively.
I feel like when I'm writing areview I think about it
holistically of you know, do I,do I?
What would I improve on?
What would I?
You know?
And so I feel like I don't wantto start priming them to think
(29:37):
about something negative thatprobably wasn't that they could
feel if they weren't outwardlylike.
You know what I mean.
I don't know.
Do you guys resonate with anyof you?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Definitely I actually so instead of doing a survey or
a questionnaire, I do anoff-boarding call.
Oh, not all clients say yes,but a lot of them do, and so
it's kind of like a time for usto a little bit dish about like
the behind the scenes, becausemy clients always want to know,
they want to know those stuffAbout all the fires.
(30:10):
So it's kind of fun to like givethem like that glimpse into
their day.
But also I and I'll give them aheads up in advance that I like
to ask you know what aboutwedding day and my process?
Did you enjoy?
What didn't you love or couldbe better?
And you know a lot of themdon't have anything Some of them
do, but it has but actually insome cases been really nice
(30:31):
feedback and things that havebeen super helpful that I have
implemented in the future sothat other clients could, you
know, benefit from thatexperience.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And it's usually teeny little things, but you
know you don't always get theclient.
I mean, as a professional, wedon't exactly know what our
clients are thinking in themoment.
It's cool to get that feedbackafterwards.
I do want to say I was thinkingit earlier when, kelly, when
you asked what we prefer tippingversus gifting.
If I had to choose between thethree, I would say a really
(31:02):
thoughtful, lengthy keyword,testimonial or review is my
preference.
Above all else.
I see that as a long-terminvestment in my business that
my clients, can you know, giveme to show gratitude.
Of course you know all of theabove is super thoughtful and
sweet and nice to have, but youknow, I think reviews are the
(31:25):
unsung heroes of our businessesin so many ways and I don't know
if clients really recognizethat, especially after the fact,
when life happens and we getbusy.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I agree.
So we I am different from mostin that I'm not about online
reviews, but we do send outfeedback forms and just say hey,
would you mind entering fivequestions?
(31:54):
I think it's got five questionsI don't even know if it's that
many, but it's their prompts sothat we can find out what we did
right and what we can improveon.
And I will tell you, megan, itis rare that we get anything
that's just negative.
It's almost like they find thegood in things, and where
(32:22):
there's things that they wouldhave loved to have, they make it
still sound nice.
Do you know what I mean?
Like we've gotten one, no,we've gotten two where it was
day of coordination and thingsdid not go the way they hoped
because it rained and we didn'tplan the wedding, so we weren't
(32:46):
responsible for ordering a tent.
Both of the instances.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You mean you can't control the weather?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I know I'm really disappointed in Kelly.
I mean, even after 20 some oddyears I haven't figured that
part out.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Can you imagine how much money I would make?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
But now there's Andrew.
Leave it from what's it, whichis what somebody?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
called Epa iconic reports.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
So now we have him to blame.
No, I think his service isamazing.
If you can get it, because boyhe calls it, he's so accurate.
I should do an episode with him, because I can't control the
weather and he can't either, buthe can certainly tell us what's
(33:32):
actually gonna happen, otherthan us just pulling it up on
the radar.
Megan, you look like you'regonna say something.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah, in regards to asking for reviews, things like
that, I think it's reallyimportant to, like John said, be
really thoughtful about whatyou're actually saying.
Just being like Megan, it wasgreat, that's so nice, but if
you can point to specific painpoints that were caused or not,
they're gonna cause.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
When.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I hope it's the opposite.
No, but I think that if you canpoint to specific things that
were pain points for you that wehelped to navigate around,
please do that.
Google helps with actual SEO,so it actually helps your
website to perform better in alot of cases.
So that is important, but evenmore so than that, it's easy to
(34:24):
get caught up in oh, the knot,the wedding wire, whether it's
on Google or whatever.
Honestly, shouting this out onsocial media, making sure you
tag your creative partners whenyou're posting your wedding
photos, those kinds of thingsmatter so much more because the
social proof and you saying,look, I hired this photographer,
I hired this planner, I hiredthis video team and they were
(34:47):
incredible.
I would hire them again andagain and again and shouting
that to your network means somuch more to me than some cheesy
thing on the knot or wherever.
That matters so much more ifyou're talking about where a
review is most impactful.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, and when you do it that way, that's somewhere
you're already at.
Do you know what I mean?
You're already looking onInstagram and I will say I'm so
glad that you said this, megan,because there have been so many
weddings where wedding guestsshout this out even and let me
(35:24):
tell you, my heart skips a beatwhen I see things like that oh
my gosh, they really appreciatedthat we had band-aids and
tampons and aspirin in thebathroom.
That makes me so happy.
Or so-and-so saved the day.
Or we're so glad that the DJdidn't let the uncle Larry, who
(35:50):
had too much to drink, keep themicrophone.
He was so good because he didthat.
You know those.
You're right, those notes go sofar and we can screenshot those
and use them over and overagain.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
So, yeah, and another thing I want to change-.
Sorry one more thing I'll justadd is that if you are confused
about okay, where do I post areview, it's so easy to just
copy and paste it acrossplatforms.
So if you have taken the timeto go write something really
thoughtful, it really is anothertwo more minutes to say, okay,
(36:24):
now I'm gonna post it here andhere, and then all of the bases
are covered.
So that's something else.
I'd like to point out.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And as things are delivered toyou, you know it's great, like
even if you sent, like, a thankyou note in, like right after
the wedding, or sent a textmessage, like when you get your
photography or when you get yourvideo, or when you get your
preserved flowers, like whenthose things come in.
(36:50):
Oh my gosh, can I just tell youand I know you were so, megan
Please let these people knowthat you love what you see like,
acknowledge it.
I wish you guys could seeMegan's face right now.
I'm sorry, I don't even have myphone to take a picture of this
(37:12):
.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
You see, a lot of times that we get ghosted and
it's because it's so easy tojump like I'm delivering a
tangible product after the fact.
You guys do all your hard workbefore and at the wedding day.
A lot of my work is after thewedding because I'm sitting in
front of my computer editing forhours and hours and hours.
A lot of times it's so easy towanna jump into that gallery and
relive all the moments and sendthem to your friends and family
(37:33):
.
Please do all of that.
But can you just like let meknow that you got it and that
you like them, because myanxiety riddled brain is when
you run it over a hundred times,they haven't responded.
They must hate them, they musthate me.
What would run?
Just hey, I got these and Ilove them so much.
Even if you don't have time towrite out a huge thoughtful
thank you, please just let meknow.
(37:55):
That would be great.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah and John, is it this way for you too?
Like when you don't hearsomething within like 48 hours
of the wedding?
If you didn't get the textmessage, like I am like I must
have really screwed up, likesomething is wrong.
Like, if you hear nothing, Iwould even rather get the hey,
where's the card box?
Text.
Then absolutely nothing,because then it's so bad that we
(38:21):
go there.
But we like doubt our work moreoften because it's high stakes.
We get one chance, one chanceto get everything right for you,
and so if we don't hear thateverything was at least okay, we
are like think, like we thinkthat things.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Well, and we're creatives and we don't have
coworkers the same way, you knoweverybody does, so it is
something where you don't havethat constant feedback going on.
So you are.
It feels like our the peoplethat hire us end up feeling like
our coworkers, so it's like wewant to know how it went for
them.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, you guys, this is such a good episode.
Do you have any last thoughts?
Because we're over our limit.
See, I told you, I told you wecan just sit here and talk for
ages about all things, but didyou have any last thoughts?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I think, I know, I think we're good John.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Please don't ghost Megan.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Don't go to anyone.
I mean, I just feel like it's,it's such a simple thing to like
, just send a quick text messageand say we are happy is Two
elephants in a safari land?
I make it.
I mean, I don't know, I don'tknow, but yeah, I mean just If
(39:47):
you send a little no everyone's,it goes a long way.
It's okay, so we've decided.
It's totally cool and weappreciate when you ask any and
all people About tipping themand they will be honest with you
.
For planners, it is a hard foryou, you know.
Now it's hard for us to behonest with you and to tell you
(40:10):
the truth and that I'm justgonna send people the link to
this episode from now on.
But yeah, I think I think weall.
My batteries are in low, sothat means that we have to end
the show.
But this has been great guys.
I feel like we really puteverything out there.
(40:30):
I'm gonna do another Instagramsurvey.
I collected like Dozens anddozens of responses beforehand
so I can kind of put that outthere so people have some
insight into what people werethinking before the show and
after the show and all that jazz.
But I really appreciate youbeing on and I loved this
episode and Maybe we'll get backtogether.
(40:52):
You guys were fun.
We're good trio.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Absolutely, oh tell everyone.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
This episode was supposed to be recorded on
September 28th 2022, and onSeptember 28th 2022, hurricane
Ian came through, and so we hadto like.
I don't even know if we calledit that morning or the night
before I called it that morning.
(41:19):
I think it was that morning,because we didn't know until
that morning.
That is coming directly at me,and, john, you're just two hours
north.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It was supposed to come to me.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
It was supposed to come to him.
So I I don't I don't rememberwho which one of us texted first
going are we doing this?
And I think we all were justlike you probably shouldn't, and
then I think I probably didn'thave power like an hour later.
So thank you for waiting nearlya year to get this done, but
I'm, I think it was veryworthwhile.
(41:51):
You guys thank you both so much.
I really appreciate you beingon the show.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I'm so glad to be able to share my wedding
Experiences and expertise withyou, and that my co-hosts are so
giving it theirs.
We truly do want you to havethe best time at your wedding,
and our hope is that thispodcast is helping you to make
your engagement time whileplanning your wedding that much
easier.
May I ask a favor of you?
(42:17):
If this is the case, would youjust take a moment to leave a
review of this podcast on yourlistening platform?
It helps people just like youto find the Podcast and to also
find out their answer so theycan make decisions.
I would also absolutely lovefor you to give this versus that
podcast a shout out on yoursocial media.
(42:39):
You can find us at this versusthat wedding podcast on
Instagram, and if you would likeme to help you with a specific
question, a wedding decisionplease by all means ask.
Send me a DM.
I would love to hear from youand maybe, just maybe even have
you as a wedding cast on afuture episode.
(43:01):
How fun you just do.
Another great wedding.
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Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.