The Power of Honest Conversations & Community

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This is Pt 2 of my conversation with Crissy as we step back into the early days of PTSD diagnosis. Pt 1: on Apple Podcast or Here

Ever wondered how to navigate the complexities of PTSD and domestic violence? Join us in this special summer hiatus of the Wednesdays with Watson podcast as we revisit some of our most impactful episodes from the inaugural season. Over the next two months, I'll share my journey of healing, highlighting the immense role my church, community, counseling, and faith have played in my transformation over the past four and a half years. Additionally, Crissy, a returning guest, offers her heartfelt insights and challenges as a caregiver for someone with PTSD, providing a beacon of hope and understanding for others in similar situations.

Together, Crissy and I dive deep into the power of support systems, the critical importance of safe spaces, and the necessity of grace and forgiveness in the healing process. We confront the tough realities of dealing with trauma and PTSD, including the unintended side effects like dishonesty. Our candid discussions aim to illustrate that with judgment-free support and a strong community, individuals can rise above their past behaviors and realize their true potential. Crissy's bravery in sharing her story, despite being shy and introverted, serves as a testament to the transformative power of honest communication and mutual understanding.

As we navigate the intense feelings of shame and the challenges of sharing personal stories publicly, our reflections emphasize the importance of fighting against hopelessness with faith and the belief that healing is achievable. The episodes also explore the need for reframing questions to foster safe environments for trust and vulnerability. As we prepare for exciting new content and format changes in September, this hiatus is an invitation to revisit these pivotal episodes and witness the unwavering faithfulness that has guided our journey. Join us as we offer hope, validation, and a reminder that you are seen, known, heard, loved, and valued.
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
When it feels like you've lost your way and the
road disappears in the haze,when your fading heart needs a
northern star, I'll walk withyou to the other side.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Wednesdays with
Watson.
It is July of 2024.
And you are in for a little bitof a different experience If
you are a regular listener tothe Wednesdays with Watson
podcast.
Over the next two months, overJuly and August, we are going to
put the podcast on hiatus.

(00:43):
However, we are going tore-release some episodes from
the first season that most ofyou probably have not heard, and
so we're going to combine someof these episodes, many of which
I left off on a cliffhanger, soback in the day, people had to
wait two weeks to find out therest of the story.
As you're listening to what weare going to share with you

(01:04):
today, just keep in mind who youhear talking to you right now
and how unbelievably faithfulGod has been, because, even when
I look back to four and a halfyears ago, when I recorded these
episodes, I am such a differentperson so much healing, so much

(01:26):
hope, so much growth.
And part of that has beenbecause of this, which had
become a bit of a passionproject for me the Wednesdays
with Watson podcast.
But most of it is because of mychurch, my community and
counseling, which, from the verybeginning, became the tagline
for this podcast, along withJesus, who is the star of my

(01:49):
story, and so, as you listen tothese first set that we're going
to drop today, we will be doingthat all through July and
August, and you will know, ifyou're a new listener, why all
of these things matter to me.
As for me, during July andAugust, I will be behind a
computer getting my dissertationproposal ready.
As some of you know, I am allbut dissertation done with my

(02:15):
doctorate degree in educationalpsychology, with a focus on
trauma and community care.
I'm looking forward to whatthat means for the podcast.
We have brand new content and abrand new format coming at you
in September, and so, until then, though, especially for those
of you that are new, enjoy thesedropback episodes so that we

(02:35):
can see how faithful God is.
Hey, everybody, and welcomeback to Wednesdays with Watson.
By now, you know that I am yourhost, amy Watson, and we have
called the inaugural season ofthe podcast PTSD Jesus and Me,
definitely seeing the evolutionof the podcast and even the

(02:59):
evolution of some healing for melike stuff that I never even
anticipated, and so, with thatbeing said, the last few
podcasts we have had a guest on,who is back with us today.
Welcome back to the podcast,Chrissy.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Thank you for doing this.
I know that this is a littlebit outside your wheelhouse, so
I do have a question for you,because I have fielded this
question for about 10 days nowand I'm tired of answering it.
So I didn't put you on the spotbecause I know better than that
, but one of the questions,since you know you have been on
the podcast for the last I guessthis is the third week and some

(03:36):
people keep saying to me anddifferent versions of this
question is how did you get themost shy person on the face of
the earth to do this?
And so I tried to answer it.
My guess is that you will beable to give them a better
answer to how this is actuallyhappening right now.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
I am shy, I am introverted and I felt strongly
that I should lend my voicebecause I I hope and pray that
if there are others out there inmy position as kind of a

(04:17):
caregiver to someone with PTSDor or in other situations, that
perhaps by speaking up I couldhelp them, and I hope that
people out there there'll besomebody who says, oh my gosh,
me too I feel that way andthat's helpful for how to be the

(04:38):
person living with someone whois struggling with PTSD or any
number of things For sure.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
So yeah, and that's been my experience, and really
some of the people that asked methe question asked it a little
bit in tongue and cheek, becausewe all know that about you is
that when it matters, you willspeak up, and so one of the
things that I think hassurprised both of us is how hard
this has been.
I have spent the better part ofmy life pretty much putting

(05:09):
myself out there.
My story is fairly phenomenal.
I say phenomenal, what I meanby that is phenomenal that I'm
still breathing and that goesback to that sea.
Jesus, my church, is the reasonwhy that is still happening.
But all that to say, we're westarted doing this and then you
and I started talking about itand I've been surprised about

(05:32):
how hard it's been.
Has that?
Has that surprised you at all?
Like this, this part of theexperience, and talking about
some of this?

Speaker 3 (05:38):
It has been.
I really feel like I.
When we started talking, Ithought, well, this isn't so bad
, we're just chatting.
But the after effect of talkingabout these, these hard times
both dredging it up and dredgingis the wrong word but

(05:58):
revisiting those days has beensurprisingly hard.
But then there is this momentof feeling like, oh my, that's
out there for the world.
And I just realized that,beyond being shy and introverted
, I'm a private person and sothis has been hard.

(06:18):
And yet I am just as passionateabout making sure that this
podcast gets out there, becauseI do think it's important.
And so there has been somediscomfort, I think, for both of
us, for sure, but it's worth itif it helps someone.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Some of my yeah, I agreed with you there and I
think that's the whole reasonwhy I'm doing this.
You know, I started this, thispodcast, in the middle of the
right.
Now today is July of 2020.
But whenever whoever islistening to this has started
this podcast during the pandemicof 2020.

(06:56):
And really I just needed acreative outlet.
I didn't know what it was goingto do, but I've always wanted
to be a good steward of thispain.
I think what has beensurprisingly difficult for me,
and even where we left off onthe last podcast, as you were
explaining to me, we weretalking about the reality of
flashbacks and night terrors andsome of the things that were

(07:18):
necessary for me to make it toliterally make it and not end up
back in the hospital when I wasthinking back at those times
and I ended the last podcast bysaying I want to say to you I'm
sorry, but what I will say isthank you.
And I was really shocked at howhard that moment was for me

(07:42):
when I recorded the behind themic video on our new YouTube
channel.
I actually got emotionaltalking about this.
It hurt my heart to hear thedepths that you were sent when I
asked you that question Wereyou afraid that I was never
going to make it?
And so the Lord continues to dohealing in this story, and we

(08:02):
initially called these podcastsmemory keepers.
I think today we will start aseries called a trench mates
perspective, and and here's whyI still want to continue to tell
some of my story but I thinkthat we have identified the
importance of your voice in thisprocess, as difficult as it has
been.
As I mentioned, I continue toget emails from people that are

(08:25):
sitting in your position,chrissy, where they or or they
want, or people like me want tohelp people like you and their
lives understand more, and so,because of that, I want to first
, in this podcast, we're goingto drop back into this
conversation that you and I hadabout six weeks ago, and then

(08:45):
there's going to seem to be alittle bit of an awkward break
where we're going to continue totalk about that same subject,
but let's sneak back into wherewe left off last time and then
we'll pick up from there, andthe first words that I wanted to
say were I'm sorry, but what Iam going to say is thank you,

(09:10):
and I know that we're not allrainbows and butterflies now,
you still live with triggers andI'm so grateful to the Lord who
just found a way to bolster youup, to be there during such a
time as this or that, because Iwould not be here.

(09:33):
And I always talk about mydesire to be a good steward of
the pain, and that's why we'resitting here doing this.
We're going to play these fewpodcasts and we've got harder
stuff to tell.
Yeah, I want to encouragepeople out there that don't have
a Chrissy though You're goingto find it in a community Go to

(09:53):
meetings.
You're going to find a community.
There's hope.
But I want people listening tothis because this is an
extraordinary story.
This is an extraordinary story.
Most people listening to thismay be tempted to be discouraged
and say but I don't have aChrissy.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
But neither did we.
So I didn't have an Amy untilthe day I showed up for that
Bible study and then showed upfor Sunday school.
I didn't want to go, I'm shy Ididn't want to go, but I showed
up and this is what the Lord did.
And so today you may look andsay I don't have that in my life

(10:35):
.
But you went, but I went, andyou don't know what story the
Lord is going to tell.
And this is a miracle.
This story is a miracle and Godcan tell a billion more in a
moment because he's able to.
And so just because you don'thave it today doesn't mean that

(10:59):
God isn't going to provide thatwhen you showed up in Clearwater
, going to provide that.
When you showed up inClearwater after leaving John,
you didn't have a job, a churchor me, a family, and God showed
up, Boy did he right?

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Right Boy did he.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
But for people who are listening and don't
currently have those things, mylogical brain immediately goes
well, I don't have it, it'llnever happen.
That's not giving God a chance.
Give him a chance.
Trust him, start showing up.
Don't be silent, even if you'rethe person who has suffered.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Because it's worse than the event.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yes.
Or the person who is livingwith someone who is hurting
You're living with it.
Get help too Huge.
If you're a caregiver in someways, if you are walking through
this, you need a place to talktoo, and a place that's safe to

(12:04):
say.
This is hard and I I don't knowhow to deal with this or I keep
triggering these things how canI help?
You need a safe place too, andthat feels weird to say because
because really, you're the onewho's been through something.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, it's the whole.
Put your oxygen mask on first.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yes, I needed a safe place as well, and I had that in
Mama Bootsy and in a smallgroup of friends and in Dr.
Pettit and in my faith, yeah,but it's imperative for both
parties to make sure that youare taking care of yourself and
that you have some safe placesto share.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
And this is really safe places to share.
Huge, so huge.
I had spent a lifetime of lyingto protect myself, and so you
had asked me a simple questionlike how much did you spend on
that bike that you shouldn'thave?
And you just really, reallywanted to know how much was that

(13:08):
bike?
You didn't care, you weren't incharge of my bank account, but
I would lie to you about thatAbsolutely.
And so how did you stick withme?
You forgave me over and overand over and over, and it
doesn't matter why I lied,because you've said two things
to me over the years, and one ofthem is you often remind me,
give yourself grace for thosefew good decisions you made to

(13:30):
get a Chrissy Lothridge in yourlife.
And I got up one Wednesday nightand went to that Bible study.
I got up one night, one day andwent to that Bible study
Cheryl's life group.
I accepted the invitation toteach there.
And that's not all me.
That is that old footprints inthe sand.
Jesus picked me up and carriedme and said you're going to go
here, here and here.

(13:51):
But you also had to forgive mea lot and so can you speak to.
Yes, you need a safe place, butI had to have hurt your
feelings and again you go backto the safe place.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
And again you go back to the safe place, but I would
lie to you about the price of abike.
The lying, of course, for me,being a truth speaker is the
hardest part and will probablyalways be the hardest part for
me.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Because we still struggle with this.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
I don't bold-faced lie, but if I feel backed in a
corner, Absolutely, and thattook years for us to realize
that if you get backed in acorner you'll lie.
And so then I have to.
I would frame the question insuch a way that you were out of
the corner.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
I felt safe.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, and I felt safe to tell you the truth, so I
would say something like man, ifI wanted a bike, I'd spend a
million dollars on it.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
And then you'd tell me the truth You'd be like, well
, it was only 1.4.
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.
So then it became a win, right.
So any way that I could reframeit so that you weren't looking
like a bad guy, I knew I'd getthe truth out of you.
Well, I sure would eat a wholebox of cereal instead of having
the broccoli that I was supposedto have for dinner, and then
you'd say, yeah, that's what Idid too.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
And so we still fight this because we still have an
enemy who does not want thismessage out there, Out there and
I everybody thinks he's thefather of lies for a reason, and
confusion and confusion, yeah,and lies, especially you will
find it with PTSD and withdomestic violence, especially.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
You will find it with PTSD and with domestic violence
especially because you'velearned to survive on lies and
with the childhood you had, youlearned to survive on lies, and
so to change that patternovernight it's's not possible,
barring a miracle.

(15:46):
One of the things I want tomake sure that that I say at
this juncture because you, youasked a specific question is why
did I stick with it?
It's, it is 100%.
I saw the person, I saw who youare, just like any person.
If you're looking at them andseeing their sin and not seeing
the person, then you're missingout.

(16:08):
You've missed the whole point.
I saw you.
I didn't see your lies, I sawyou, I saw my friend, I saw this
amazing, amazing, deep faith,wonderful outgoing person, deep
faith, wonderful outgoing person.

(16:29):
And so I wanted to dig in andget rid of the lies or any other
problems, as we were facingdifferent issues.
If I stepped on a landmine, Iwanted to find out what I had
stepped on and why, and how canwe get better, how do we find
healing so that you could be thebest version of you, because I

(16:49):
knew from the day I met you youhad a voice and that you could
preach the gospel and thatothers might gain the Lord
because of your story, but, moreimportantly, because of you.
So, while you're telling yourstory on this podcast, the more
important thing is you're not asuperstar because you've

(17:12):
suffered so much.
You're a superstar because ofwho God made you, and don't miss
that.
I do miss that.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
And.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
I think that a lot of people want to.
It is hard to not make a bigdeal about what you've been
through.
You were babysat by serialkillers Right.
Bum, bum, bum.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
It's hard not to make that a headline, but who God
made you is a big enoughheadline and it's enough.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
It's enough, it's more than enough.
Yeah, like, even if I didn'tfinish the book, which we all
know I'm struggling to do, evenif this was the last podcast,
it's enough.
So, yeah, that was, chrissy,the end of that original
conversation that you and I hadabout six weeks ago, that I
don't know about you, but we'veedited this and listened to this

(18:08):
so much.
I'm not sure, actually, whatwill actually land on people's
phones.
So we landed on, if I didn't doanything else with my life, if
we didn't do another podcast, orI never wrote another word or
whatever, that I am enough andthat that enough conversation

(18:28):
came out of a very organicconversation that was unexpected
, quite frankly, about and youand I have been trying to find a
way to explain this but theunintended, the negative I
wanted to use the wordconsequence, but Side effects,
yeah.
So so some of the negative,because they really are negative

(18:50):
side effects of PTSD, becausewe went off kind of on this
organic conversation about oneof the issues that you, as the
person walking along closestwith me, had to deal with was
dishonesty and lying and andthings of that nature, and so
that really sat with both of usand we thought, huh boy, we need

(19:11):
to.
We need to spend some more timewith this, wouldn't you agree?

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yes, and I think, re-listening to it six weeks
later, I wanted to make surethat it was abundantly clear
that your lying was not acharacter issue.
It wasn't who you are.
It was a sin, and todifferentiate, because there are

(19:38):
times that you may meet someoneor be in a relationship with
someone who is toxic I'm airquoting or harmful or malicious
or all of those things, and youmight need to extricate yourself
from the situation.
This was not that situation,and I just want to make sure
that people can understand thatwe're all sinners, so all of

(20:06):
your friends at some point aregoing to hurt.
You probably lie to you, and ifyou were to toss them out and
say, well, you lied to me, I'mdone, we're done, you're a liar,
you're going to miss out to me,I'm done, we're done, you're a

(20:28):
liar, you're going to miss out.
You're going to miss out oneverything that the Lord has for
you in that friendship and thatrelationship, and so it really
takes some discernment to knowthe difference between someone
who is sinning versus someonewho is a blank, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
And there's an obvious reason like that kind of
thing.
Some of these things and we'regoing to talk about them some of
these things are out ofcharacter for that person and I
think that we've talked beforealready about the importance of
you had some people speakinginto your life that you trusted

(21:10):
and who would have told you toexit right and exit quickly in
the event that it was bad foryou.
But one of the questions I amgetting a lot on social media is
how do I help my personunderstand?
And one of the things that I'dlike you to say a little bit
more, because I can actuallyvisualize this in myself is you

(21:36):
talked about a PTSD patient,particularly somebody with
childhood trauma like I had as awounded animal, and it's very
difficult to do life alongsidewounded people in general.
But you've talked a little bitabout that.
How can?
So?
When I get these emails, I waslike how can I help my mom or my

(21:57):
sister, my aunt, my friend,understand that, understand me,
me, talk to me a little bitabout that, because that I heard
you and I felt that as a PTSDpatient when you talked about
the wounded animal analogy.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, I think you know.
The more I think about it, themore you know.
You really do realize that thatis a lot of what's going on.
The first problem with awounded animal is you can't
communicate, and similarly I wasnot communicating with you
effectively to say I am safe, Iam here.

(22:35):
A lot of the hard work isfiguring out how to communicate
and how to let the person knowthis is a safe place.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
And I will say so.
We're going to start talkingabout page turners, and we've
got a lot of pages to turn inthis story that only the Lord
can tell.
Just like everybody else'sstory out there, my story is no
more phenomenal or importantthan yours, and I say it all the
time do not compare the stories, but you and I have lots of
pages to turn on on in thisstory, and one of them is this

(23:21):
idea of doing life with theperson and really what you're
signing up for when you do that,because there are behaviors
that exhibit themselves, andthis dishonesty thing for me was
one of them.
And when I felt so, you, you,we laughed, and I can't remember
whether this actual audioactually made it onto the

(23:41):
podcast or not at this point,but we were laughing because
you're like well, it only tookus 185 years to figure out that
if I backed you in a corner, itonly took us that long to figure
that out, and so that's what Iwant people listening to.
This is like as somebody walkingalongside with somebody who has
a negative side effect, likefeeling like I'm backed in a

(24:04):
corner.
I need to protect myself, soI'm going to lie about the price
of a bike.
How can you help that person?
Because I can tell you from mystandpoint, when I stopped
feeling judged by you whether ornot you were judging me or not
but when I stopped feelingjudged when you came alongside
and I can't remember whether youactually said it or I just knew

(24:26):
it like this isn't who you arelying about the price of that
bike.
So what's really going on?
Kind of like that old versionof what really happened to you
when I stopped feeling judgedand you came along.
I'm a sinner too, or I lie too,or I do this.
To that too, then, and onlythen could I go.

(24:47):
This is a problem.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, and I think that that is what needs to
happen in anyone's situation isfind those key elements.
What is the root of the issue?
I knew for you one of themearly on.
I did figure out was you feltlike if I said that's a lie,

(25:13):
that I was saying you are a liarand it was a character attack,
and so I would immediately say Iam not attacking your character
, I don't believe this is whoyou are, but this is not
truthful.
The judging came later, where Icould specifically address hey,

(25:33):
I'm not trying to judge you, Iwould do the same thing or I
would do something similar inyour situation too.
But let's talk about what thetruth is, or however you word it
.
But the key is to find out whatis the deeper thing that is

(25:55):
really haunting the person.
This really goes for everybodyIn any situation.
If somebody is behaving out ofsorts, if you've punched
someone's buttons, stepped on alandmine, in general there's a
reason, and if you can figureout what that is, then you both
can address it and hopefullymove forward.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right, yeah, and I think that.
So again, we're talking aboutthe unintended side effects of
PTSD, and one of them, for me,was slash is you know, this
desire to protect myself by wayof not telling the truth when I
didn't feel safe, and so.

(26:39):
But I want to continue to talkabout some of those and really
bleed that into a little bit ofwhat happened after.
Right, so I had gone back towork and was not doing well.
That ministry that is, thatchurch and school, about 45 days
out, said, hey, you know what?
You're not, okay, go home.

(27:00):
And they honored my contractand I went home and continued to
.
We continued to really strugglewith some of those night terrors
and things that we talked about, but I knew that I needed to.
I had to have a job and in theclassroom, as much as I loved,
it was not going to be that jobfor me because of some of the

(27:22):
stuff that I was going through.
And really the Lord justextricated me from that
situation because, quite frankly, that classroom, those kids,
that ministry, had become anidol for me and it had become a
deterrent for me to not addresssome of these things that we're
talking about, and one of thembeing the dishonesty.
The other one is performance.

(27:43):
Ban the dishonesty, the otherone is performance, and I had
spent my whole life performingmy way out of the pain, and so
one of the things that we canweave into every one of these
unintended side effects of PTSDis we can tie it back to I had
no ability to understand myvalue.
I had no ability to understandmy value.

(28:08):
About 99.9% of the people thatjust heard that sentence also
has no ability to understandtheir value.
And I go back, chrissy, to Stacyand her birthday verse, and
when I met her in the psych wardand the verses said you are
more valuable than many sparrowand how I.
Just at that point in my life,and even most days at this point
in my life, I didn't get that,but I knew that after I healed a

(28:31):
little bit.
So I spent that summer prettymuch healing, and we had already
talked about what would be next.
I knew that the classroomwasn't going to be the place for
me, and so I had to find a job.
We had been talking aboutstarting a business before I

(28:52):
moved to Clearwater and taught.
I had done this exact samebusiness for about 12 years, and
so after that summer we startedour business Watermark
Management Group.
And do you remember, chrissy,how we named the watermark?
You remember how much fun thatwas.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yes, yes, we didn't know what we were going to name
it and we just used an iPod andhit shuffle.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah.
So we hit shuffle and we saidthe first song that speaks to us
.
That's what we're going to namethe business.
We were starting, a businesswhere there was all kinds of
opportunities for redemption,based on how I had spent 12
years of my life and my careerin that domestic violence
marriage, and so starting thisbusiness really was an

(29:40):
opportunity to redeem thoseyears.
But it also fed one of theseunintended consequences slash
side effects of PTSD which I wasusing as an analgesic.
I was using it to cope with thepain, because even the handfuls
of medications still weren'tgetting that done for me, and so
this was an opportunity toperform.

(30:00):
But we were riding down theroad and the song came on by a
group called Watermark, andthese are the lyrics that made
us name our business WatermarkManagement Group.
Because of who you are and who Iam, in you you make all things
pure.
Because of who you are and whoI am, in you, you make all
things true.
You make all things new.

(30:22):
And of course, everybody knowshow much I love that verse Joel
2.25, where the Bible says thatI will restore the years that
the locusts have stolen from you.
And so, chrissy, I want tothank you for talking today and
and we're going to really makethis a springboard off into
these unintended side effects ofPTSD, because I continue to get

(30:45):
messages from loved ones and sowe will pick up in a couple
weeks continuing to talk aboutsome behaviors that some of you
may be seeing in the people thatyou love, and then this
Trenchmates perspective.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
As the years go by and the days get lost in time.
Wherever you go, you willalways know I'll walk with you
to the other side.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Wednesdays with
Watson.
I'll walk with you to the otherside season of the podcast,
ptsd Jesus and Me.
And today we are mid-season andthat is so hard to believe.
I am so grateful for those ofyou who have spent time with me
on these podcasts, who havemessaged me, and even for those

(31:53):
of you who have shared it andhelped get the podcast out there
.
Sincere gratitude to you.
But we are mid-season and, guys, we talked about the podcast
evolving at the beginning andcertainly it is doing that.
We are learning, we are growing.
One thing I can tell you isthat today's podcast is for 100%
of the population of planetEarth, and so I want you to kind

(32:18):
of sit back and drop into thisbeginning of this conversation.
These two words are on mywebsite and they are on my
website and they are two wordsthat are so important to me and
I want them to be important toyou because they are true.
This is the first podcast ofthe you Matter series.

(32:40):
Because you do matter, let's go, guys.
2 am that is the magic time forme.
My body seems too light to wakeme up at that time and any
horrible thing that can happenor that I can remember.

(33:00):
I guarantee you, if I look atthe clock, it's 2 am and it was
about 2 am right before or,excuse me, about two hours after
the last podcast recordactually dropped, and I woke up
with full-on flashbacks and I,as very common with flash

(33:22):
flashbacks, don't remember whatthey were.
But I was also so riddled withshame I literally put my head in
my hands and I thought tomyself what have I done?
I just basically laid my soulbare out there for the world to
hear.
The voices of shame wereshouting and a lot of them

(33:44):
sounded like my voice and theywere telling me Amy, you are
your mistakes, you are thatunfortunate, you are that person
with those unfortunate,negative, attention seeking
behaviors that come with PTSD.
Shame was telling me that night, in the middle of the night
that's who you are, and you justtold the whole world that you

(34:04):
have an attention seekingbehavior and you plan to
continue.
So I just kind of laid therefor a few minutes and I wondered
wow, can I unpublish thispodcast?
I looked at the stats and onlyone person had listened to it,
but I didn't actually even knowhow to unpublish it, because I
don't publish it my, my, myproducer does.

(34:24):
And so I was like, well, um,okay, well, I can't unpublish it
, so maybe I should try to startstop getting my heart from
pounding Like it's racingsomewhere really quickly, cause
it was just pounding.
From the flashback and from thissense of shame that I heard and
that I felt, I laid there and Ithought what, seriously, what

(34:44):
have I done?
What have I done?
And also I kept hearing variousmostly well-meaning voices from
my childhood, their voiceactually saying you should be
ashamed of yourself, and I was.
I am indeed ashamed, but I alsoknow that that's the game and

(35:08):
we can't lose that game, and soI want to fight.
Here's a spoiler alert, by theway Jesus wins in the end.
Jesus wins in the end.
I knew when I started thepodcast that I have dubbed my
pandemic podcast, that PTSD wasan important topic.
Jesus is so important to thestory as it's his, not mine, I

(35:33):
know that and you know that, andI say that, hopefully, on
everyone so important that I puthis name in the title.
But this middle of the nightflashback was as bad as I had
really had in a long, long time,you know, as Chrissy and I sat
and chatted for hours in thatcloset.
It was fun, it was a blast, welaughed and had lots of good

(35:54):
memories and it was cool toreflect on the faithfulness of
God.
But we did that for hours andit stirred up all kinds of
emotions.
So I got up that night afterthe podcast had been up for
about two and a half hours atthat point and jumped in the

(36:14):
shower.
The cold water in the middle ofthe night woke me up a little
bit and kind of reset me to somedegree.

(36:42):
No-transcript on the lastpodcast, but as I sat there, the
sounds of the night reminded mewho was actually in control.
And then I just remember thewords of this song that I love
so much.
If you gave your life for them,so will I.

(37:07):
If creation seeks to praise you, so will I.
And so if you hear my voiceright now, you are them to me.
I will lay down on this and wewill keep fighting just for one
of you.

(37:28):
So now it's like 3.30 in themorning.
I walked back into my house andfinally just relented and took
some medicine and finally fellback asleep.
But those voices of shame wereloud.
Back asleep, but those voicesof shame were loud.
They were telling me that I wasworthless.
They were telling me to stopdoing this podcast, to stop

(37:50):
writing.
They were telling me to stoptelling the world that you don't
have to live in shame and guilt.
I hoped a few more hours ofsleep would reset me.
Sometimes that happens when youfall back asleep Because I plan
to leave the podcast up,because I knew it to be obedient
.
But I also understand that I'mgoing to be working through this
shame thing and it's here tostay.
It wants to take my value.

(38:12):
It wants to take yours too.
So what we aren't going to dois quit, because you matter and
I matter, and so we're going tocontinue to stay with this.
We're going to continue toevolve.
We're going to continue to heal, because I started this podcast
to give people hope Hope thatyou can heal from unspeakable

(38:32):
trauma.
And yeah, mainly this season isfor PTSD patients, for people
who love them, for people whominister to them.
But this very podcast, as Isaid in the intro, is for 100%
of the population.
I have started, as I justjokingly said, I've started
calling this my pandemic podcast.
Apparently, it's a prettypopular thing, as you can't even

(38:53):
buy a mic on Amazon right now,but anyway, I started this
podcast at a time you know whoknows where we are in this
pandemic the beginning, middleend but I started it and right
now, on this day that I'mrecording it is at a time when
hope seems to be at an all-timelow.
I firmly believe that hope isthe bond that we all seek for
the pain, but we always seek itin other things.

(39:16):
And then hopelessness, whenleft unchecked, is tragic and
leads to all of theseattention-seeking behaviors that
we're going to talk about and awhole lot other things.
The Bible says that hopedeferred makes the heart sick.
It's so true.
It's so true for all of us.
I know that because I getmessages from people all the

(39:38):
time now who have questions andare seeking help, and I'm way in
over my head because I knowthat I'm only qualified to tell
you my story and things thatwork for me.
But the message is the samefrom everyone who messages or
emails they are running low onhope.
2020 has drained us of ourearthly hope Every single person
on this planet and dimmed ourlight, and so everyone is

(40:00):
feeling a little needy.
In some ways.
That isn't a bad thing.
Needs drive us to solutions.
I think it's the solutions thatwe need to watch, and we will
definitely be talking about that.
So, because this podcast is for100% of the population, here's

(40:21):
what I want to make sure that Iwant to continue to repeat over
and over in this podcast is weall want to be seen, we all want
to be known, we all want to beloved, we all want to be heard,
we all want to be valued.
And here's the great news, guys, we are all of those things.

(40:41):
I am no different and as aresult of even sitting behind
this microphone and the feedbackthat I get from it makes me
feel those things, all thosethings that I just mentioned
Seen, known, loved, heard andvalued.
But as much as I love my people, I have learned the hard way
that my eternal hope and valuedoesn't come from people but

(41:04):
from God, and so I want to bringshame back into the
conversation, because shamecan't take it, because shame
didn't give me my value.
God gave me my value.
Did you guys know that it onlytook 25 verses in the Bible?
25 verses in the Bible.

(41:26):
So Genesis 1 26 addresses ourvalue.
Where we, where God says thatwe are made in his image, 25
verses into the Bible, valuegets addressed.
We are made in his image, whichis so amazing and so unable to
be comprehended.
Psalm 139 describes howprecious we are in his sight and
that we are formed in his imageagain.

(41:47):
But it only takes six versesfor the psalmist to acknowledge
that.
Whoa, this idea of value is way,way in over my head Depends on
which translation you're reading.
Way in over my head Depends onwhich translation you're reading
, but it is everything from.
You know, it's too lofty for meto understand, it's too much

(42:08):
for me to understand.
But Genesis 1 26 does tell usthat we are made in that image,
equally loved by him, with aspecial purpose, with special
giftings and, yeah, with specialpain, special, unique pain.
That word unique is there onpurpose to remind you not to

(42:30):
compare your pain with mine oranyone else's In my sphere of
influence.
I hear a lot of horror stories,especially as it pertains to
domestic violence, and even I'mtempted to compare my stories.
Don't do it, guys.
It's a dark road and it justmakes shame grow, grow, grow,
grow.
Shame grows in the dark andthat's a dark road.
I wasn't given any of thethings that you need to walk

(42:54):
your road and you weren't giventhe things to walk mine, and
that's why we don't compare.
But we can help each other andthat is the point.
Community it's one of the threeC's Because, besides me wanting
you to know the peace that onlycomes with knowing with Jesus,
my biggest wish for you is thatyou get connected with a

(43:16):
community.
Please go get connected with acommunity, I beg you.
Chrissy is one of my communityRide or Die members and we, as I
mentioned, we had a blastrecording those three podcasts.
Those conversations are simplytoo much to recap, and so I
would certainly encourage you togo back, but it was really fun

(43:37):
and interesting and painful andall kinds of weird emotions.
That experience of herunjumbling some of my PTSD
memories was all of those thingsI already mentioned several
times now the shame that I feltafter hitting the publish button
and by that I mean my producerhit the publish button, but that

(43:59):
podcast was also fraught withother issues.
We had so many audio issuesthat everything that you can
imagine happened.
So I knew that it wasn't anaward-winning audio experience.
But the last part of thatconversation took that
unexpected turn and the contentwas too anointed for me to
reproduce and so we left it.
And I'm telling you guys Istill regret it this very moment

(44:20):
I'm fighting y'all.
I'm fighting.
I've been working through thisshame because on that podcast we
began to talk about what youwill hear me refer to a lot in
the next several podcasts asattention-seeking behaviors, and
in that particular podcast,chrissy and I had some hard
conversation about one of my ownattention-seeking behaviors

(44:41):
which I had battled most of mylife, and especially in the
early days of my friendship withher, by way of dishonesty.
Certainly I have and continueto work through some of these
things in counseling andobviously I understand why I use
dishonesty to deflect, toensure safety, especially in the
middle of my domestic violence,marriage, or because I was just

(45:02):
needing to feel seen, known,loved, heard, valued.
I don't know that even thistime last year I would have had
the emotional health to do whatwe did by hitting publish on
that podcast or evenunderstanding this idea of
attention-seeking behaviors andwhy we have them.
And so I often think that Psalm139.6 was written just for me,

(45:28):
because that whole concept ofvalue is way too lofty for me to
understand.
My real enemy and your realenemy, the father of lies,
confusion and chaos likes tomake us all forget our value,
and you're not going to be anydifferent from me, whether you
have PTSD or not.
When we forget our value, webegin to exhibit attention

(45:49):
seeking behaviors, which oftenturns into the shame that I keep
talking about.
When we forget our Genesis 126status, made in the image of God
, Attention seeking behavior hasthe opportunity to abound and I
want you to remember that.
That community that I keeptalking to you about here's
something that you really needto do.
You need to make sure that thatcommunity also looks like

(46:12):
accountability.
You need to make sure you havesome people in your community
that will call you out and thatwill call you higher and that
will make you mad to the pointthat you will evaluate.
So make sure your community,some people in your community,
looks like accountability.
As I've mentioned three timesnow, this podcast is for 100% of

(46:34):
the population, because even ifyou don't have PTSD, you have
attention seeking behaviors.
That just makes you human.
Now, shame drives some of this,for sure, but then it's the
hamster wheel where shamebecomes comes from a variety of
attention seeking behaviors andit just becomes normal to feel
shameful all the time.
What also becomes the norm isour is is our complete inability

(46:58):
to take care of ourselves andall the things that we do with
things that we value.
When we forget our image bearerstatus, we really have this
inability to remember that weare seen, known, loved, heard

(47:18):
and valued.
I know the devil loves darkcorners.
He likes to live, he likes usto live in this guilt and shame
and, most of all, he is a mastersalesman.
He convinces us of needs thatwe don't have and then he gives
us ill-fated solutions to needsthat we actually do have.
These are the kinds of thingsthat nobody talks about, but

(47:38):
they're common to every singleone of us.
Most of us just go to sleepwithin our minds at night, and
I've decided to tell the worldhit record and have it published
and then fight the shame andthe inability to remember my
value after it.
But I am doing that because I'mtired, guys, so tired of
watching.
I'm tired of doing this and I'mtired of watching it, of living

(48:01):
in guilt and shame, because itdoes not have to be that way at
all.
I am going to continue to keeplocking myself in this closet
and I'm going to keep doing thisbecause he gave his life for
you.
The least I can do is shareauthentically with you, even
when it brings the opportunityfor my own shame.
I spent so many years frustratedand so loathing about this idea

(48:24):
of attention-seeking behaviors,and never really more so than
when I was just 14 years old.
When I was 14 years old, I hadbeen living with foster parents
for about 18 months and on June6, 1987, those foster parents
who had taken care of me whenthe state removed me from the
state of Florida but from my mom.

(48:44):
They took care of me for 18months, but they had their own
ministry and their own family,were good people and because of
some of these attention-seekingbehaviors, I needed more help
than they could give me.
And so, june 6, 1987, I foundmy 14-year-old self standing
underneath a sign that saidFaith Children's Home.

(49:06):
It was just another abandonmentin my mind.
At that point it was a day thatstill makes my heart beat fast
and my voice tremble, because,even though those were the best
years of my life, that was ahard day.
So my foster parents left and itwas lunchtime and I made my way

(49:29):
into the main building whereall the children were housed and
it was because it was lunchtime, as I mentioned.
Everybody was there.
Huge, these two huge rooms withthese big, long wooden tables
where everybody sat, and two bigrooms, one of them where
everyone ate, and then a bigkitchen, obviously an
industrial-sized kitchen,because you know, there were a

(49:50):
lot of kids to feed and so theywere eating shrimp or something
that was donated from Taco Bell,and that's a whole other story
for another day.
All I know is I didn't want anyTaco Bell, and that's a whole
other story for another day.
All I know is I didn't want anyTaco Bell shrimp, and so I
found a place to hide in betweenthis industrial-sized
refrigerator and this cabinetand there was a little red chair

(50:12):
in there, almost as if it wereinviting me to sit there so that
the new kid could hide.
And so I did.
I kind of sneaked back there alittle bit and it was dark and I
could hear all the goings on ofof what was happening, and I
certainly didn't understand howI could hear the laughter of
children, and but I did.

(50:32):
I heard all of those things,and then so I'm just kind of
processing all of this in thislittle dark space that might
have been a foot long, where Icould just barely kind of shimmy
myself in there.
I was not who I am today,outgoing gregarious, will take
over a room.
I was very shy, very woundedand really didn't want anybody
to see me, so pretty much thecomplete opposite of what I am

(50:55):
today.
And so when this head popped inmy little oasis, there I was,
my eyes probably were the sizeof saucers and it was the
whitest hair I had ever seen inmy life, with a Southern accent
that I couldn't reproduce if Itried this.

(51:15):
She said, well, hello.
And I just stared at her.
I didn't even answer her backand she had the, the, as I
mentioned, the most southernaccent of anybody I've ever
heard in my life.
She hailed from Maggie Valley,north Carolina.
She said to me has anybody toldyou today again, just staring
at her, but had been taughtenough manners to go, ma'am, she

(51:39):
has anybody told you today thatthey love you?
I'm quiet here for a secondbecause I remember in that
moment my foster parentscertainly had told me they love
me, but there was somethingdifferent about this.
So I just looked up and said no, ma'am.
She said, well, I love you.
I'm Mom McGowan.

(52:01):
That day, even though it wasn'tovernight, created an incredible
bond between Mom McGowan and me.
She and Dad had started thechildren's home that day, that
day where she just gave me whatI just wanted some attention.
She saw me, she loved, she sawme, she heard me, she valued me,

(52:22):
she knew I was there, I feltknown, I follow all those things
I keep talking about, and so itcreated a bond that I had not
known up until that point, butit also created a bit of a
monster.
A couple weeks ago I gave anexample on substance abuse where
one is too many and 10,000 isnot enough, and so in some ways,

(52:45):
when I got attention from MamaGowan, it was like that I sought
to fill all of those pains andthat abandonment and all that
stuff that I had gotten to at 14years old seven abusers, you
know, abandoned by my mom, oldseven abusers, you know,
abandoned by my mom, reallyevery kind of abuse that you can
think.

(53:08):
I was seeking to fill thoseempty spaces with her, and it
didn't matter how much attentionshe gave me.
I wanted more.
My lies to her were kind oflike they were to Chrissy.
They were just lies that wouldget me attention, lies that
would physically put me in herproximity so that I could be
around her.
But when I would exhibit thoseattention-seeking behaviors and
in that case a lie and I'd layin bed at night and our room at

(53:30):
the children's home had six twinbeds and there were sort of
five other people in the roomwith me, and so we learned to
cry silently and I would laythere at night feeling guilty
about about lying because I andI was so convinced that I was
worthless, because I needed herattention and that frustrated me

(53:52):
so much that I needed thatattention.
I didn't understand that Isimply had unmet needs that I
was doing whatever I could do tomeet them Just a human
condition, not necessarily justa PTSD one.
I don't know how many of you atnight put your heads down and

(54:12):
feel some of this emptiness thatI'm describing or feel guilty
about whatever form ofattention-seeking behavior you
had that day, but I know that Ihave spent so many years
self-loathing and not living tomy potential because I simply
could not understand this needfor attention from other people.
Why couldn't God be enough?
Perhaps I was just too brokenand I really did believe that

(54:35):
Until recently.
Recent years, my tribe and mycommunity have locked arms with
me and ushered me to him throughsimply living their lives and
making sure I was at leastattempting to live mine, making
me feel all those things that Iam valued, loved, seen, known,
heard.
And so those were nights, as ayoung Amy, that I didn't

(54:58):
understand this need forattention, and so this
attention-seeking behavior cameout in ways to put me near her.
But it didn't matter how muchattention she gave me, because I
didn't understand my value.
What mattered was the attentionthat she did give me.
So the amount of attentiondidn't matter, but what mattered
was the attention she did giveme drove me to the cross and to

(55:23):
Jesus as the only person who caneven sort of make this pain
bearable.
And we would have these greatlean-in conversations, and I
love some lean-in conversations.
I still have them with MamaGallen and we still have that
bond.
I do love a lean-inconversation and that is why I
love community so much asChrissy and I were unpacking a

(55:44):
little more of these sideeffects or consequences of post
traumatic stress disorderdepends on which one of us you
ask.
I say consequence, she saysside effects.
We realize that some of themare certainly pronounced in
people with trauma.
But, as I've mentioned, I thinkfour times now, if everyone
were being 100% honest, we allhave times, places and spaces

(56:04):
where we just need, and becausewe're resourceful human beings,
we will do what we have to do tofill those needs, like I did at
the children's home, even asworthless as it made me feel
those nights in that twin bed.
Think about it, though.
From a very early age we arebuilt this way.
This is evidence like if youwatch a baby throw their bottle
on the floor, only for you topick it up and hand it back to

(56:26):
them.
That will go on for as manytimes as you will pick the
bottle up and hand it to thebaby.
On the part of the baby, thebaby just wants to be seen,
known, heard, loved and valued.
Same with us we're justgrown-up babies throwing a

(56:47):
bottle on the floor, but whenthe parents actually pick the
child up and hug them and lovethem, now they feel valued.
The need is met.
I don't need you to pick thebottle up off the floor for me.
So, as Chrissy and I weretalking about this and we have
these lean-in conversations allthe time, like I used to have
with Mom McGowan as we weretalking about this, she said
something that stopped me in mytracks.

(57:08):
She was actually talking atthat point about her own trauma,
some of which she has agreed toshare in due time.
But I was literally leaninginto that conversation.
But then she said somethingthat made me sit back in my
chair and this is what it was.
She said what if I am toobroken to fix?
What if your listeners feel toobroken to fix?
So I kind of just stared at herand got up and left to be

(57:34):
honest with you, because I knewthat she was trying to spur my
creativity.
But I also knew that she wantedan answer from me, somebody
that she trusts as her own rideor die community.
So I thought as I walked backover to my house, because
Chrissy and I are neighbors, man, I started this podcast for

(57:54):
Susie Smith and Mary Wright andnow one of my best friends in
the whole world, withtear-filled eyes, has just asked
me if she was too broken to fix.
So I walked into my door and Iwas like, yeah, I know that
feeling.
I remembered it from that twinbed at the children's home where
I thought it was worthlessbecause I craved Mama Gallen's

(58:15):
attention.
I remembered it from the shameI felt early in the years of my
PTSD diagnosis as I continued topile attention-seeking behavior
on top of attention-seekingbehavior.
We're going to talk about quitea few of those, by the way.
I remember feeling too broken tofix.
I remember wishing I were toobroken to fix because that meant

(58:35):
I could live my life withplenty of excuse and zero
purpose.
But the reality is as hard as Itry, I know that I love a God
who redeems the years that thelocusts have stolen.
I've stopped asking why hestole the years and I look
forward to great anticipation towatch him continue to grow and
restore the years and purpose.
And if you hear my voice rightnow, you are my purpose.

(59:00):
If you hear my voice right now,you are my purpose.
This being too broken to fixconcept, coupled with the
unintended side effects of PTSDor negative consequences or
whatever we're calling it, orjust being human in general, can
be lethal, and I knew that.
And I knew that, like I said,while she was trying to spur on
my creativity, she just wantedan answer to my question.

(59:20):
So, yeah, I left her house, butit sent me directly to
scripture because I wanted to beable to tell you, to tell her,
hey, I wanted to be able to tellmyself that I'm not too broken
to fix because, remember, I'mstill feeling shame because I've
told the world about some of myshame or some of my behaviors
that made me feel shameful.
I remembered the story in theBible of the lady who was healed

(59:41):
simply because she touched thehem of Jesus's robe, so I went
searching for that story, and Ifound it in Mark, chapter 5.
She was a lady with a bleedingdisorder, and the Bible tells us
that she had been healing,seeking healing from this order
for about 12 years.
It is thought that she spentall of her money and all of her
resources trying to fix thisbleeding disorder.
That is was probablygynecological in nature, and so,

(01:00:03):
as we know, in that region,especially during that time,
women basically were to see, beseen and not heard none of the
things that we're talking abouttoday.
It is thought that her bleedingdisorder, as I mentioned, was
gynecological in nature, and sothat would have put her even
more of an outcast, bringingmore opportunity for here's that
word again shame.
I bet she also felt broken.

(01:00:25):
I bet she didn't feel seen,known, loved, heard or valued.
Here's the thing that stopped mein my tracks, though, because
she made a decision one day toget up, leave her house and find
Jesus, because she heard he wasgoing to be in town.
Now, he wasn't coming in townto hang out, he was en route to
another miracle.

(01:00:46):
She just knew he was passingthrough.
I bet if I could have asked,she probably would have phrased
her question just like Chrissydid.
She had been seeking a solutionfor her brokenness for 12 years
.
Am I too broken to fix?
But what was so amazing to me,and I want it to be to you too,
is that in a last-ditch effort,she made a decision to go

(01:01:09):
looking for Jesus.
Think about that for a minute.
Think about what would happenif, in your darkest days whether
they're PTSD days or human daysyou got up and went looking for
Jesus.
The Bible says that when shetouched the hem of his garment,
jesus felt the power go out ofhim.

(01:01:29):
He said who touched me?
And when she answered, it wasme.
He said to her your faith hasmade you whole.
I was sitting on my porch thenext morning and I was reading
the passage again.
The way Jesus chose to answerthat question your faith has
made you whole infers that shewas broken, doesn't it?

(01:01:52):
Certainly, we are all broken.
It is the human condition and,as I mentioned, ptsd only
pronounces that.
I think about this decision,lady's decision to go find Jesus
, and how that decision changedeverything for her.
I could relate to that too,because I was reminded of those
early decisions to seekcommunity, to go to church.

(01:02:14):
I wish I could say that Isought Jesus the way that lady
did in her brokenness, butbecause I made a few decisions
to seek community, jesus camewith them.
So as we move on with the secondhalf of the season, I want to
say that I say to Chrissy and Isay to any of you asking the
different form of her questionno, you're not too broken to fix

(01:02:35):
, and the best way I can seegetting air quote fixed is to go
looking for community and value.
If you lay your head down atnight and think about the things
that you did that day to garnerattention of another, you need
to feel very normal, especiallyright now in the middle of a
pandemic, but also know that youdon't have to feel that way.

(01:02:58):
Your faith can make you whole.
Our mission here is not done.
I am not quitting.
I'm going to keep telling youshameful behaviors.
I have spent this entirepodcast setting up.
The rest of the season.
The next few podcasts willcontinue to feature consequences
of post-traumatic stressdisorder as they exhibit
themselves in all sorts ofattention-seeking behaviors.

(01:03:20):
Because, as Maya Angelou said,when you know better, you do
better, and knowledge puts shamein its most famous
representative and the brightlight of revelation.
So I want y'all to come with me, because we're going to do this
thing together.
Those of you who feel like I doright now, like your shame
defines you and you can'tremember your value, I want you

(01:03:42):
to stay with me, because we aregoing to be straight up, real
and raw.
We're going to be transparent.
We're going to be true.
We can have PTSD, we can lovepeople with PTSD, we can
minister to people with PTSD, wecan be human.
We can need attention.
We can minister to people withPTSD.

(01:04:03):
We can be human, we can needattention, we can need hope, but
none of that has to rule us.
So we're going to call it outof the corner.
So shame has been defined asthis.
I am a mistake, not I made amistake.
So we are going to call shameout of the corner.
We're going to legit call itout of the corner.

(01:04:25):
We're going to shine light onit and, like I said, we're going
to be real, we're going to beraw, we're going to be
transparent, we're going to betruthful.
And so, over these next twoweeks, I'm going to be praying
for everyone who hears this toknow that shame is not who you
are.
Shame is not who you are.
You, my friend, are far from amistake, and shame has no game

(01:04:47):
with you or with me, anddefinitely has no game with the
one who made you.
You matter.
It's been on my website since Iopened it.
You matter.
Do not forget that.
Keep fighting, keep praying,keep remembering you're made in
the image of God.
Don't feel weird when you can'tunderstand that concept.

(01:05:10):
You can borrow my faith rightnow if you don't have any of
your own Great song by BeboNorman.
I am looking forward to beingback with you guys in two weeks,
where we will dive deep backinto these attention seeking
behaviors.
Chrissy will be back, so youdon't have to hear two versions
of stories.
Until then, I want you to liveloved.

(01:05:31):
I want you to live chosen.
I want you to live courageous.
More than anything, I want youto remember you are seen, you
are known.
I want you to remember you areseen, you are known, you are
heard, you are loved and, mostof all, you are valued.

(01:05:53):
You are a precious child of theMost High God.
Hey guys, it's me again and weare still in 2024.
Thank you for listening to thesethrowback episodes of the
Wednesdays with Watson podcast.
We would love it.
If you subscribe to the podcast, you can do that right there in
your app, wherever you are.
You can follow as a checkmarkat the top right hand corner of
podcast, of Apple podcasts, andthen just write in other apps.

(01:06:16):
You can just follow orsubscribe and help the show grow
.
As we go into September, we willbe having new content, as I
mentioned at the beginning ofthe show, and a new format as
well, as I get closer tofinishing my doctorate degree.
One more thing by means ofhousekeeping, if you are so
inclined.
The Patreon link is in the shownotes, and so if you want to

(01:06:37):
support what we're doing here,which is to help people who
cannot afford counseling, pleasejust click on that link and you
can support us for as low as $5, among as many of my listeners
do.
And so until two weeks from now, when we bring you some more
drop back episodes I don't wantto say drop back there, amy,

(01:06:59):
when we bring you some morethrowback episodes.
I want you to remember what Ialways say, and I never leave a
microphone without it you areseen, you are known, you are
heard, you are loved and you areso, so valued.
And ask yourself today, can youanswer the question in the
affirmative, just like I can?

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Has he been faithful for all of your life.
When your weary soul needs ahand to hold, I'll walk with you
to the other side.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,

(01:07:56):
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

(01:08:18):
Never gonna let you down, nevergonna let you down, never gonna
let you down, never gonna letyou down, never gonna let you
down.
Oh, as the years go by and thedays get lost in time, Wherever

(01:08:53):
you go, you will always knowI'll walk with you To the other
side.
I'll walk with you to the otherside.