December 9, 2024 • 21 mins
What if transitioning out of military life was harder than being deployed? Join us as we explore this provocative question with Michelle Lang, co-founder of Operation Honor: Rural Salute. Michelle shares the poignant story of her husband, Chris, an Army veteran, and their challenging journey from military to civilian life. Despite having a job and family support, Chris faced the unseen battles of mental transition and inadequate VA services. This struggle inspired Michelle and Chris to launch a nonprofit aimed at bridging the gap in resources for rural veterans. Learn how this initiative, sparked by the eviction of a Vietnam veteran neighbor, addresses critical issues like transportation and telehealth access.
In our conversation with Michelle, we dive into the heart of rural America, where veterans often find themselves isolated from essential services. Michelle’s dedication to raising awareness about mental health and breaking down stigmas in these communities is both inspiring and urgent. Discover how you can join this cause, whether by joining their online community or volunteering at upcoming events in Pennsylvania and North Carolina. Visit ohruralsalute.org to see how you can make a difference. The message is clear: community support isn't just beneficial; it's vital for the well-being of our rural veterans and the fabric of our nation. If you would like to volunteer or find a way to help, reach out to Michelle(at)ohruralsalute.org.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:00):
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and this week our
guest is Michelle Lang.
She's one of the founders,along with her husband, Chris,
of a veteran serviceorganization called Operation
Honor (00:14):
Rural Salute, and they have a great organization that
helps veterans rule veteransfind the resources not only
hiring but mental healthresources, all sorts of things
that veterans who live in thecities or close by to the VA
(00:35):
facilities just sort of take forgranted.
So I'm really glad she couldjoin us today.
Michelle, welcome to thepodcast.
Michelle Lang (00:44):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Larry Zilliox (00:46):
So tell us a little bit about how the
organization came about.
I know your husband, chris, isan Army veteran, but how did you
come up with the idea or youguys decided that, on top of
everything, when you'retransitioning, it's a good idea
to start a nonprofit?
Michelle Lang (01:04):
Yeah, it's, it's very I don't know.
When you are used to themilitary life, you're just, I
think you lose some of your andyou just decide everything is a
good idea.
But he got out of the militarythe first time in 2019.
And that is what started ourjourney.
(01:24):
He didn't have a goodtransition, even though we had
everything lined up he had a job, we had family support and
everything.
He really wasn't and I wasn'tprepared for the mental
transition.
And then we lived in an areawhere, yes, we could get to the
VA as an hour away.
Unfortunately, the VA that hehad to go to was not helpful.
Way, unfortunately, the VA thathe had to go to was not helpful
(01:49):
, which created sort of more ofthis moral injury and really
started the design.
And so I was like, what do youdo whenever you're not near your
military installation that hasall these nonprofits and
resources that you can just goto a resource fair and see
what's available to you?
So, with that, we started anonprofit in 21 with the idea
(02:11):
that we would create this reallyrobust database, all these
smaller nonprofits that peoplecould basically just go backyard
and use.
That were right there.
Yeah, but we made a shift justthis year.
So the idea is we were alwaystrying to tell rural veterans
that, hey, I know you don'tthink so, but there's help
(02:33):
available for you.
But we did an event in June.
That was just.
It was geared to rural veterans, it was marketed towards rural
veterans.
It was in my hometown, which isa very we have more cows than
people in the county, so it wasvery rural.
And that's after.
That is whenever we decided tomake the change, because people
(02:55):
had that label then where theycould say, like I am a rural
veteran and this is actuallyreally the first time I felt
seen and supported and I waslike, well, we can reach you
this whole time.
I just needed to give you thatlabel to help you find community
and understand that there'shelp available to you.
So we made the shift fromVeteran Help Point to Operation
(03:16):
Honor Rural Salute in June withthe intention of just serving
rural veterans and theirfamilies and letting them know
that there's help available tothem, there's a community
available to them and there's alot of great opportunity that
they can take advantage of.
Larry Zilliox (03:31):
For our listeners , if you would.
How does your organizationdefine rural veteran?
Michelle Lang (03:37):
We pretty much go off the USDA definition.
So I mean there's threedifferent categories of rural,
but basically anywhere that'snot a giant city.
So there's even some peoplethat don't identify as rural.
But it's like well, how faraway is your VA Like?
Do you have something?
For example, we're here at FortLiberty.
(03:59):
Fayetteville is not very rural.
There's VAs that you can go to.
I live 30 minutes out ofFayetteville.
We're very rural.
I live right across from adairy farm.
This is a beef farm.
There's not much here.
You have to travel kind of farto get any resources, usually
for an hour.
So if you have to go more thanan hour to get to a VA, you're
(04:25):
probably living in a prettyrural area.
Larry Zilliox (04:27):
Yeah Well, I do travel more than an hour to get
to a VA, but that's by choice,because where I live in this
Northern Virginia suburbs it'sthe same amount of time to drive
78 miles to the VA in WestVirginia that it is to fight the
traffic to go in 32 miles tothe VA in DC.
(04:48):
But we're not really rural, butI do understand what it's like
to have to make that haul,especially when sometimes the
people you're dealing with atthe VA are just quick to set up
appointments for you like you'dwrite down the street Right.
So what's the number one issuethat you think rural veterans
(05:11):
face today?
Michelle Lang (05:12):
Well, there's two different perspectives.
I guess there's what I thinkfrom seeing on the outside and
kind of looking at the holisticpicture of it.
But then, talking to ruralveterans, a lot of them tell me
is transportation is an issue,which that is a big issue.
We don't have Ubers and wedon't have taxis and if you are
(05:33):
an older veteran and you'retrying to get to your VA
appointment, finding somebodythat's going to take you, most
of the people in my town inPennsylvania have to go to the
Martinsburg VA and so trying tofind somebody to take you to an
hour and a half away and thensit and wait with you all day
and then drive you back, that'sreally, really tough to do.
(05:54):
So transportation is an issue.
Increasing awareness abouttelehealth, even finding places
that some people don't have goodconnectivity at their house, so
broadband internet issues,awareness of the resources,
because there's so manyresources that people can use
inside their own house thatthey're just not aware of
(06:15):
because they don't think thatthey qualify.
They don't realize that theyhave their benefits that they
can use.
I mean the total awareness, allthe opportunities is to me the
number one issue.
Larry Zilliox (06:27):
So let's go back and talk a little bit about your
transition from the first timeyou said from service to
civilian life.
And where were you guys at atthat time physically located?
Michelle Lang (06:42):
We were at Fort Bay I guess it's Fort Moore now,
I think.
So we were down there, we.
It was not something that myhusband wanted to do, he was not
able to.
His career has been veryinteresting.
(07:02):
So he got orders to go to FortIrwin but he didn't have his
ranger tab as an infantrymanbecause he got injured in ranger
school and I mean just all thisstuff.
So it was like the writing wason the wall he was never going
to get promoted.
He didn't want to drag hisfamily to the middle of the
desert for you know, to not seehim for three years only to get
say, hey, we're not going topromote you.
So he's like I'm just going toget out, we're just going to try
(07:24):
and make this work.
So he got a job.
We moved back home toPennsylvania, to Lancaster,
pennsylvania, and so that wasabout two and a half hours away
from both of our families, butstill way closer than Georgia,
right, and that's whereeverything seemed okay.
We had a house, we had mysister-in-law actually lived in
(07:47):
Lancaster, so we had support andthat was the first time we ever
lived near family in like sixyears.
But he just did not have anyfulfillment or purpose in his
new job and he went from onlywanting to be a career soldier
(08:08):
to now dealing with working in afactory that he didn't have any
passion for.
He wondered his purpose in life, felt like he was letting his
family down, his country down,and really nobody to talk to
about that and I never hear thisside either.
Me as a spouse, I felt like Ikind of was losing my identity
(08:29):
too, because I had just comearound to the fact that I was a
military spouse.
I had fought it for so long,but, yeah, it was finally like,
hey, okay, I can embrace thislifestyle.
But then we moved toPennsylvania and I was like, oh,
no like what do I do?
There's no.
You know, I'm so used to goingon base for my medical care, I'm
so used to doing this, this andthis and having these support
(08:51):
systems.
Now you've got to figure it outall over again.
But it's not the familiarity ofgoing to.
You know, this office you needto go to.
Now you have to figure it outon your own all over again Right
.
Sure.
That all really really took adecline on his mental health.
Unfortunately, he reached outto that local VA and they told
(09:15):
him, no, we can't help you.
And instead of saying likehere's other resources we can
point you to, it's just likehave a good day Bye.
And so he was like well, Ican't be helped.
And that is where it got really, really bad.
Like boy, we were looking atthe reality of getting divorced.
I had just found out that I waspregnant with my second son and
(09:38):
when I found out, like it waslike a light switch went off in
him.
And when I found out, I wasactually afraid to tell him.
And he is like a very lovingfather.
He is, I mean, he's a great dad.
But we were not OK, just likeboom, like that it was.
So it was so crazy and I triedto get him the help that he
needed.
I tried to get him into atherapist.
(09:59):
The therapist that I got himwith had no military experience,
had no experience working withveterans nothing.
And so that was less thanhelpful.
That actually was kind ofhurtful too, because he just
didn't understand why Chris wasstruggling.
So what did Chris do?
He threw himself back intoservice and he was in the
(10:25):
reserves.
So he never, when hetransitioned out, he
transitioned into the reserves.
But now he decided to take abigger role, went active duty,
signed up for a deploymentwithout telling me, because
that's where we were in ourmarriage.
Luckily we got it togetherbefore he deployed and, you know
, worked on our marriage throughtherapy and things like that.
(10:46):
But it was a really, reallyrough year for us.
Larry Zilliox (10:52):
Yeah, I know that our listeners understand that
your story is actually morecommon than what people think
and that transitioning.
You hear a lot of veterans talkabout purpose and how they lose
that.
They also lose access to thetribe and access to that
(11:15):
comfortable feeling of, in aweird way, being told what to do
.
Things are pretty simplebecause I've been told this is
what I need to do and I'll do it, also losing access to all the
services that come with your ownmilitary service.
(11:36):
So you got a problem with alease.
You take it to the legal office.
They take care of it for you.
Now you got to hire a lawyer ifyou've got a problem.
So it's just such a totallydifferent world.
And then on top of that, youthrow in moral injury PTS, maybe
, tbi, maybe just some otherphysical ailments that you need
(11:59):
to have addressed.
So you try to find some sort ofrelief through the VA and
that's a struggle just to get atit.
Once you're in, the care isreally good in most cases.
Yeah, I understand that was apretty common story about
struggle when you separate andI'm just so thankful that you at
(12:25):
some point decided to createthis amazing organization that
just provides help and resourcesfor veterans that just don't
live in an area that has much tooffer, at least on the surface.
So that is always a problem.
You know, it's sort of theopposite of what we have, the
(12:46):
problem that we have here in,say, the Northern Virginia area
or around the city.
Here in our area there is anabundance of veteran service
organizations.
The problem is that there's somany that they're all doing
their own thing and differentthings and sometimes the same
things, but people don't knowhow to find them or they're not
(13:08):
really networking that well,whereas the opposite for you is
the farther out and the morerule you get, the fewer the
resources.
So it may look to veterans likethere's just nothing available.
When you know Operation Honorand Rule Salute is there to say,
hey, those things are here, ormaybe it's not quite like that,
(13:31):
but these folks can help you.
I just think what you guys dois just so great.
Talk a little bit about thatpoint in time where you said,
hey, this was a good idea, thisis what we should do.
Michelle Lang (13:43):
Well, whenever we were, my husband was going
through all that mental healthstuff and you know we were
trying to figure that out.
We actually had our neighbor.
We lived in a duplex and ourneighbor was a Vietnam veteran
and he and his spouse were notmarried by law but they were
domestic partners for I thinklike 30 years and they were
(14:07):
being evicted from their homeand they didn't know what to do.
Their family lived in likeMaine area and also Las Vegas.
Family lived in like Maine areaand also Las Vegas, so they
didn't really have any help oranywhere to go.
Their church also didn't knowhow to help them.
So my husband and I found theveteran, a house that accepts
(14:28):
only Vietnam veterans, got thewife situated so that way they
wouldn't be homeless, they couldfigure it out until they got
back on their feet and I waslike, wow, that was really scary
and that's kind of what made merealize, like what would they
have done if we weren't there?
And they didn't know how toreach out to other veteran
organizations.
So my husband deployed.
(14:50):
I started just sharing my storyonline and, because I wasn't
embarrassed about it like a lotof people are, it's not
something we could help and it'snot like I'm a weak person,
it's not like he's a weak person.
We just had something that wedidn't know how to deal with.
But we got through the otherside.
(15:10):
So I started talking about itand other even some of my
friends were like, yeah, we hadthe same problem.
And I was like why didn't youtalk to me about that?
Well, I was embarrassed and Iget that as somebody that you
know wrote research papers forcollege and you know knows how
to research.
I also couldn't find the helpthat I needed, and that was
(15:33):
embarrassing, it's infuriating,but it's still no fault of our
own and I thought we really gotto do something about this.
So I started talking to myhusband about it while he was
overseas and was like, wouldn'tit just be easier if there was a
way that people could knowabout these resources?
So we decided to start anonprofit whenever he got orders
(15:53):
down here to Fort Liberty,because he's been active duty
reserve ever since, and Ithought this is a good place as
any to start a nonprofit,because there's all these
resources and help and there are.
I mean it's a fantastic placeto start a nonprofit.
The people here are really,really wonderful.
There's really good resourcesif you're looking to start a
(16:14):
business or nonprofit here.
So I got to work and I just itwas.
It was good.
I just was trying to kind ofboil the ocean, as they say.
So I wasn't making as big of animpact as I wanted and I still
felt like there was justsomething that I was missing and
I really wasn't like scratchingmy passion.
(16:37):
It's like there was just anitch that I still was missing
and it really wasn't until thatevent where I was like that's it
.
We just need to do only ruralveterans and focus on them,
because they're the ones thatare not getting the fact that
there are resources available tothem and they are.
I just believe in thiscommunity so much.
(16:57):
I love my rural community.
I love it's just like my family.
My family is from rural America.
My parents were dairy farmers.
My grandparents were dairyfarmers.
I know what they're capable ofand I know that a lot of city
folk underestimate rural America.
But without them, I mean,america would be not what it is
(17:17):
today.
Larry Zilliox (17:18):
Yeah for sure.
Oh, they'd eat less.
Yeah, I want to direct thelisteners to your webpage.
So it's ohrulesaluteorg, sothat's an O and H and then the
word rule and saluteorg, and Hand then the word rule and
(17:41):
saluteorg.
The webpage is just full ofresources.
This time of the episode, ourlisteners know really what I'm
going to say, which is find thedonate button, and in this case
it's on the right-hand sideunder the word more.
Click on that and you'll seedonate.
Go ahead and click on thatbutton and donate what you can.
It's super simple.
I just did.
It Took me about 38 seconds.
(18:03):
They have a PayPal Expressroute that I took and it kind of
threw me a little bit that thedollar amounts that are preset
were a little bit different thanwhat you usually see.
But it's super simple and thisis a great organization that you
can help out by donating.
And for our rural listeners,anybody out there, is there a
(18:27):
way for them to volunteer or tohelp out?
What's the best way that peoplecan help?
Michelle Lang (18:33):
Oh, there's a lot of ways.
So I mean online.
We have our online communitythat we just launched.
So I believe it's the firstever online community for rural
veterans.
So help moderating that.
We always need help with socialmedia, with outreach, and then
we have our in-person events.
So in 2025, if you're local tothe Gettysburg area, to the
(18:59):
Fulton County Pennsylvania areaor to the Southern Pines
Fayetteville area we'll be doingevents next year and we always
need tons of volunteers forthese events because they're
like big festivals they're likebig festivals.
Larry Zilliox (19:14):
We go to Gettysburg a fair amount.
It's a beautiful area, actually, just like Lancaster, the heart
of Amish country.
Up there it's really nice.
So should they just reach outthrough your webpage?
Michelle Lang (19:24):
Yeah, I think that my email is linked to there
.
If not, my email is michellewith two L's at ohruralsaluteorg
.
I mean there's a contact buttonon the website or any of my
social media accounts.
We get all those messages tooGreat.
Larry Zilliox (19:42):
We really probably can get you some help
there.
But the main thing is reallylisteners, go to the webpage
ohruralsaluteorg, take a look atthe resources, but under that
more button on the right handside, hit donate and give what
you can.
Really, I would say that, nextto female veterans, that rural
(20:05):
veterans are the mostunderserved in our community,
clearly, and a lot oforganizations are like well, you
know, if you want help movecloser or you know we can't put
a VA on every corner, butthere's a lot that can be done
to help our rural veterans andyou know Michelle, you and Chris
(20:28):
are really doing somethingspecial, so I know our listeners
really appreciate that.
So thank you so much forjoining us for this episode.
I really appreciate it and keepup the great work.
Michelle Lang (20:42):
Well, thank you for having me.
I do appreciate it.
Larry Zilliox (20:44):
So, for our listeners, we'll have another
episode next week Monday morningat 0500.
If you have any questions orsuggestions, you can reach us at
podcast at willingwarriorsorg.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run, and this week our
guest is Michelle Lang.
She's one of the founders,along with her husband, Chris,
of a veteran serviceorganization called Operation
Honor (00:14):
Rural Salute, and they have a great organization that
helps veterans rule veteransfind the resources not only
hiring but mental healthresources, all sorts of things
that veterans who live in thecities or close by to the VA
(00:35):
facilities just sort of take forgranted.
So I'm really glad she couldjoin us today.
Michelle, welcome to thepodcast.
Michelle Lang (00:44):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Larry Zilliox (00:46):
So tell us a little bit about how the
organization came about.
I know your husband, chris, isan Army veteran, but how did you
come up with the idea or youguys decided that, on top of
everything, when you'retransitioning, it's a good idea
to start a nonprofit?
Michelle Lang (01:04):
Yeah, it's, it's very I don't know.
When you are used to themilitary life, you're just, I
think you lose some of your andyou just decide everything is a
good idea.
But he got out of the militarythe first time in 2019.
And that is what started ourjourney.
(01:24):
He didn't have a goodtransition, even though we had
everything lined up he had a job, we had family support and
everything.
He really wasn't and I wasn'tprepared for the mental
transition.
And then we lived in an areawhere, yes, we could get to the
VA as an hour away.
Unfortunately, the VA that hehad to go to was not helpful.
Way, unfortunately, the VA thathe had to go to was not helpful
(01:49):
, which created sort of more ofthis moral injury and really
started the design.
And so I was like, what do youdo whenever you're not near your
military installation that hasall these nonprofits and
resources that you can just goto a resource fair and see
what's available to you?
So, with that, we started anonprofit in 21 with the idea
(02:11):
that we would create this reallyrobust database, all these
smaller nonprofits that peoplecould basically just go backyard
and use.
That were right there.
Yeah, but we made a shift justthis year.
So the idea is we were alwaystrying to tell rural veterans
that, hey, I know you don'tthink so, but there's help
(02:33):
available for you.
But we did an event in June.
That was just.
It was geared to rural veterans, it was marketed towards rural
veterans.
It was in my hometown, which isa very we have more cows than
people in the county, so it wasvery rural.
And that's after.
That is whenever we decided tomake the change, because people
(02:55):
had that label then where theycould say, like I am a rural
veteran and this is actuallyreally the first time I felt
seen and supported and I waslike, well, we can reach you
this whole time.
I just needed to give you thatlabel to help you find community
and understand that there'shelp available to you.
So we made the shift fromVeteran Help Point to Operation
(03:16):
Honor Rural Salute in June withthe intention of just serving
rural veterans and theirfamilies and letting them know
that there's help available tothem, there's a community
available to them and there's alot of great opportunity that
they can take advantage of.
Larry Zilliox (03:31):
For our listeners , if you would.
How does your organizationdefine rural veteran?
Michelle Lang (03:37):
We pretty much go off the USDA definition.
So I mean there's threedifferent categories of rural,
but basically anywhere that'snot a giant city.
So there's even some peoplethat don't identify as rural.
But it's like well, how faraway is your VA Like?
Do you have something?
For example, we're here at FortLiberty.
(03:59):
Fayetteville is not very rural.
There's VAs that you can go to.
I live 30 minutes out ofFayetteville.
We're very rural.
I live right across from adairy farm.
This is a beef farm.
There's not much here.
You have to travel kind of farto get any resources, usually
for an hour.
So if you have to go more thanan hour to get to a VA, you're
(04:25):
probably living in a prettyrural area.
Larry Zilliox (04:27):
Yeah Well, I do travel more than an hour to get
to a VA, but that's by choice,because where I live in this
Northern Virginia suburbs it'sthe same amount of time to drive
78 miles to the VA in WestVirginia that it is to fight the
traffic to go in 32 miles tothe VA in DC.
(04:48):
But we're not really rural, butI do understand what it's like
to have to make that haul,especially when sometimes the
people you're dealing with atthe VA are just quick to set up
appointments for you like you'dwrite down the street Right.
So what's the number one issuethat you think rural veterans
(05:11):
face today?
Michelle Lang (05:12):
Well, there's two different perspectives.
I guess there's what I thinkfrom seeing on the outside and
kind of looking at the holisticpicture of it.
But then, talking to ruralveterans, a lot of them tell me
is transportation is an issue,which that is a big issue.
We don't have Ubers and wedon't have taxis and if you are
(05:33):
an older veteran and you'retrying to get to your VA
appointment, finding somebodythat's going to take you, most
of the people in my town inPennsylvania have to go to the
Martinsburg VA and so trying tofind somebody to take you to an
hour and a half away and thensit and wait with you all day
and then drive you back, that'sreally, really tough to do.
(05:54):
So transportation is an issue.
Increasing awareness abouttelehealth, even finding places
that some people don't have goodconnectivity at their house, so
broadband internet issues,awareness of the resources,
because there's so manyresources that people can use
inside their own house thatthey're just not aware of
(06:15):
because they don't think thatthey qualify.
They don't realize that theyhave their benefits that they
can use.
I mean the total awareness, allthe opportunities is to me the
number one issue.
Larry Zilliox (06:27):
So let's go back and talk a little bit about your
transition from the first timeyou said from service to
civilian life.
And where were you guys at atthat time physically located?
Michelle Lang (06:42):
We were at Fort Bay I guess it's Fort Moore now,
I think.
So we were down there, we.
It was not something that myhusband wanted to do, he was not
able to.
His career has been veryinteresting.
(07:02):
So he got orders to go to FortIrwin but he didn't have his
ranger tab as an infantrymanbecause he got injured in ranger
school and I mean just all thisstuff.
So it was like the writing wason the wall he was never going
to get promoted.
He didn't want to drag hisfamily to the middle of the
desert for you know, to not seehim for three years only to get
say, hey, we're not going topromote you.
So he's like I'm just going toget out, we're just going to try
(07:24):
and make this work.
So he got a job.
We moved back home toPennsylvania, to Lancaster,
pennsylvania, and so that wasabout two and a half hours away
from both of our families, butstill way closer than Georgia,
right, and that's whereeverything seemed okay.
We had a house, we had mysister-in-law actually lived in
(07:47):
Lancaster, so we had support andthat was the first time we ever
lived near family in like sixyears.
But he just did not have anyfulfillment or purpose in his
new job and he went from onlywanting to be a career soldier
(08:08):
to now dealing with working in afactory that he didn't have any
passion for.
He wondered his purpose in life, felt like he was letting his
family down, his country down,and really nobody to talk to
about that and I never hear thisside either.
Me as a spouse, I felt like Ikind of was losing my identity
(08:29):
too, because I had just comearound to the fact that I was a
military spouse.
I had fought it for so long,but, yeah, it was finally like,
hey, okay, I can embrace thislifestyle.
But then we moved toPennsylvania and I was like, oh,
no like what do I do?
There's no.
You know, I'm so used to goingon base for my medical care, I'm
so used to doing this, this andthis and having these support
(08:51):
systems.
Now you've got to figure it outall over again.
But it's not the familiarity ofgoing to.
You know, this office you needto go to.
Now you have to figure it outon your own all over again Right
.
Sure.
That all really really took adecline on his mental health.
Unfortunately, he reached outto that local VA and they told
(09:15):
him, no, we can't help you.
And instead of saying likehere's other resources we can
point you to, it's just likehave a good day Bye.
And so he was like well, Ican't be helped.
And that is where it got really, really bad.
Like boy, we were looking atthe reality of getting divorced.
I had just found out that I waspregnant with my second son and
(09:38):
when I found out, like it waslike a light switch went off in
him.
And when I found out, I wasactually afraid to tell him.
And he is like a very lovingfather.
He is, I mean, he's a great dad.
But we were not OK, just likeboom, like that it was.
So it was so crazy and I triedto get him the help that he
needed.
I tried to get him into atherapist.
(09:59):
The therapist that I got himwith had no military experience,
had no experience working withveterans nothing.
And so that was less thanhelpful.
That actually was kind ofhurtful too, because he just
didn't understand why Chris wasstruggling.
So what did Chris do?
He threw himself back intoservice and he was in the
(10:25):
reserves.
So he never, when hetransitioned out, he
transitioned into the reserves.
But now he decided to take abigger role, went active duty,
signed up for a deploymentwithout telling me, because
that's where we were in ourmarriage.
Luckily we got it togetherbefore he deployed and, you know
, worked on our marriage throughtherapy and things like that.
(10:46):
But it was a really, reallyrough year for us.
Larry Zilliox (10:52):
Yeah, I know that our listeners understand that
your story is actually morecommon than what people think
and that transitioning.
You hear a lot of veterans talkabout purpose and how they lose
that.
They also lose access to thetribe and access to that
(11:15):
comfortable feeling of, in aweird way, being told what to do
.
Things are pretty simplebecause I've been told this is
what I need to do and I'll do it, also losing access to all the
services that come with your ownmilitary service.
(11:36):
So you got a problem with alease.
You take it to the legal office.
They take care of it for you.
Now you got to hire a lawyer ifyou've got a problem.
So it's just such a totallydifferent world.
And then on top of that, youthrow in moral injury PTS, maybe
, tbi, maybe just some otherphysical ailments that you need
(11:59):
to have addressed.
So you try to find some sort ofrelief through the VA and
that's a struggle just to get atit.
Once you're in, the care isreally good in most cases.
Yeah, I understand that was apretty common story about
struggle when you separate andI'm just so thankful that you at
(12:25):
some point decided to createthis amazing organization that
just provides help and resourcesfor veterans that just don't
live in an area that has much tooffer, at least on the surface.
So that is always a problem.
You know, it's sort of theopposite of what we have, the
(12:46):
problem that we have here in,say, the Northern Virginia area
or around the city.
Here in our area there is anabundance of veteran service
organizations.
The problem is that there's somany that they're all doing
their own thing and differentthings and sometimes the same
things, but people don't knowhow to find them or they're not
(13:08):
really networking that well,whereas the opposite for you is
the farther out and the morerule you get, the fewer the
resources.
So it may look to veterans likethere's just nothing available.
When you know Operation Honorand Rule Salute is there to say,
hey, those things are here, ormaybe it's not quite like that,
(13:31):
but these folks can help you.
I just think what you guys dois just so great.
Talk a little bit about thatpoint in time where you said,
hey, this was a good idea, thisis what we should do.
Michelle Lang (13:43):
Well, whenever we were, my husband was going
through all that mental healthstuff and you know we were
trying to figure that out.
We actually had our neighbor.
We lived in a duplex and ourneighbor was a Vietnam veteran
and he and his spouse were notmarried by law but they were
domestic partners for I thinklike 30 years and they were
(14:07):
being evicted from their homeand they didn't know what to do.
Their family lived in likeMaine area and also Las Vegas.
Family lived in like Maine areaand also Las Vegas, so they
didn't really have any help oranywhere to go.
Their church also didn't knowhow to help them.
So my husband and I found theveteran, a house that accepts
(14:28):
only Vietnam veterans, got thewife situated so that way they
wouldn't be homeless, they couldfigure it out until they got
back on their feet and I waslike, wow, that was really scary
and that's kind of what made merealize, like what would they
have done if we weren't there?
And they didn't know how toreach out to other veteran
organizations.
So my husband deployed.
(14:50):
I started just sharing my storyonline and, because I wasn't
embarrassed about it like a lotof people are, it's not
something we could help and it'snot like I'm a weak person,
it's not like he's a weak person.
We just had something that wedidn't know how to deal with.
But we got through the otherside.
(15:10):
So I started talking about itand other even some of my
friends were like, yeah, we hadthe same problem.
And I was like why didn't youtalk to me about that?
Well, I was embarrassed and Iget that as somebody that you
know wrote research papers forcollege and you know knows how
to research.
I also couldn't find the helpthat I needed, and that was
(15:33):
embarrassing, it's infuriating,but it's still no fault of our
own and I thought we really gotto do something about this.
So I started talking to myhusband about it while he was
overseas and was like, wouldn'tit just be easier if there was a
way that people could knowabout these resources?
So we decided to start anonprofit whenever he got orders
(15:53):
down here to Fort Liberty,because he's been active duty
reserve ever since, and Ithought this is a good place as
any to start a nonprofit,because there's all these
resources and help and there are.
I mean it's a fantastic placeto start a nonprofit.
The people here are really,really wonderful.
There's really good resourcesif you're looking to start a
(16:14):
business or nonprofit here.
So I got to work and I just itwas.
It was good.
I just was trying to kind ofboil the ocean, as they say.
So I wasn't making as big of animpact as I wanted and I still
felt like there was justsomething that I was missing and
I really wasn't like scratchingmy passion.
(16:37):
It's like there was just anitch that I still was missing
and it really wasn't until thatevent where I was like that's it
.
We just need to do only ruralveterans and focus on them,
because they're the ones thatare not getting the fact that
there are resources available tothem and they are.
I just believe in thiscommunity so much.
(16:57):
I love my rural community.
I love it's just like my family.
My family is from rural America.
My parents were dairy farmers.
My grandparents were dairyfarmers.
I know what they're capable ofand I know that a lot of city
folk underestimate rural America.
But without them, I mean,america would be not what it is
(17:17):
today.
Larry Zilliox (17:18):
Yeah for sure.
Oh, they'd eat less.
Yeah, I want to direct thelisteners to your webpage.
So it's ohrulesaluteorg, sothat's an O and H and then the
word rule and saluteorg, and Hand then the word rule and
(17:41):
saluteorg.
The webpage is just full ofresources.
This time of the episode, ourlisteners know really what I'm
going to say, which is find thedonate button, and in this case
it's on the right-hand sideunder the word more.
Click on that and you'll seedonate.
Go ahead and click on thatbutton and donate what you can.
It's super simple.
I just did.
It Took me about 38 seconds.
(18:03):
They have a PayPal Expressroute that I took and it kind of
threw me a little bit that thedollar amounts that are preset
were a little bit different thanwhat you usually see.
But it's super simple and thisis a great organization that you
can help out by donating.
And for our rural listeners,anybody out there, is there a
(18:27):
way for them to volunteer or tohelp out?
What's the best way that peoplecan help?
Michelle Lang (18:33):
Oh, there's a lot of ways.
So I mean online.
We have our online communitythat we just launched.
So I believe it's the firstever online community for rural
veterans.
So help moderating that.
We always need help with socialmedia, with outreach, and then
we have our in-person events.
So in 2025, if you're local tothe Gettysburg area, to the
(18:59):
Fulton County Pennsylvania areaor to the Southern Pines
Fayetteville area we'll be doingevents next year and we always
need tons of volunteers forthese events because they're
like big festivals they're likebig festivals.
Larry Zilliox (19:14):
We go to Gettysburg a fair amount.
It's a beautiful area, actually, just like Lancaster, the heart
of Amish country.
Up there it's really nice.
So should they just reach outthrough your webpage?
Michelle Lang (19:24):
Yeah, I think that my email is linked to there
.
If not, my email is michellewith two L's at ohruralsaluteorg
.
I mean there's a contact buttonon the website or any of my
social media accounts.
We get all those messages tooGreat.
Larry Zilliox (19:42):
We really probably can get you some help
there.
But the main thing is reallylisteners, go to the webpage
ohruralsaluteorg, take a look atthe resources, but under that
more button on the right handside, hit donate and give what
you can.
Really, I would say that, nextto female veterans, that rural
(20:05):
veterans are the mostunderserved in our community,
clearly, and a lot oforganizations are like well, you
know, if you want help movecloser or you know we can't put
a VA on every corner, butthere's a lot that can be done
to help our rural veterans andyou know Michelle, you and Chris
(20:28):
are really doing somethingspecial, so I know our listeners
really appreciate that.
So thank you so much forjoining us for this episode.
I really appreciate it and keepup the great work.
Michelle Lang (20:42):
Well, thank you for having me.
I do appreciate it.
Larry Zilliox (20:44):
So, for our listeners, we'll have another
episode next week Monday morningat 0500.
If you have any questions orsuggestions, you can reach us at
podcast at willingwarriorsorg.
Until then, thanks forlistening.
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