August 14, 2025 • 36 mins
Could one overlooked mineral be the missing link in cardiovascular care?
Magnesium might just be the most critical yet underutilised nutrient for heart health, according to naturopath and former heart failure nurse Gina Robertson. In this compelling episode, Gina draws on her years in cardiac wards and naturopathic practice to uncover magnesium’s profound impact on cardiovascular disease, particularly in conditions like hypertension, arrhythmias, and post-operative recovery.
From reversing life-threatening arrhythmias in seconds to halving rates of post-surgical atrial fibrillation, Gina shares powerful clinical examples and explains why standard blood tests miss magnesium deficiency in most patients. You'll learn how this essential mineral transforms stiff, non-compliant vessels into more elastic channels, reducing cardiac strain, and why stress may be one of the biggest drivers of magnesium depletion today.
We dive into the nuances of magnesium supplementation, including the best forms for specific conditions (think glycinate, orotate, citrate, glycerophosphate), practical dosing strategies, and when to consider topical applications. Gina also highlights complementary nutrients, key dietary considerations, and cautions around renal impairment.
Whether you're supporting patients or your own cardiovascular health, this episode offers evidence-based insights that challenge conventional care—and could shift the way you approach heart health forever.
Shownotes and references are available on the Designs for Health website
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome back to Wellness by Designs.
I'm your host, AndrewWhitfield-Cook, and joining us
today is Gina Robertson, anaturopath registered nurse and
former heart failure specialistnurse.
Today we're going to bespeaking about the importance of
magnesium in cardiovasculardisease.
Welcome, Gina, how are you?
And thanks so much for yourtime.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Thank you for having me really appreciate this
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, Gina, it's our pleasure.
Firstly, can I ask you, likemyself, you're a registered
nurse.
I can still remember me beingbashed over the head saying that
natural medicine didn't workand was all load of bunkum and
that sort of thing.
What piqued your interest innatural medicines to begin with?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I think this dates back to 2001 when I did the
ACNEM course, australasianCollege of Nutritional
Environmental Medicine, and thatwas their primary course and of
course there was a lot aboutmagnesium.
So that always really, reallystayed with me, particularly in
(01:17):
the context of heart failure,chronic diseases, hypertension
and arrhythmias, and so that'sbeen a real long-term interest.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
What piqued your interest to do the ACNEM course?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I mean, you know, I think I already had a leaning
and I was doing a lot ofresearch into natural medicines,
bioidentical hormones, a wholelot of things really grabbed my
interest.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And that's kind of when it all started.
Gotcha, and tell us a littlebit about your history as a
registered nurse, working incardiac wards and intensive care
.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So most of my career was spent in intensive care.
So that was both general andcardiothoracic intensive care
with a little bit of PEDS inthere as well in there as well
(02:33):
and I gave that away probablywhen I was.
I'd been in that for a longtime and I was starting to
struggle with the shift work, sothat kind of dates back From
there.
I went on and did pathologyhospital in the home and that
was where I got my entree intothe world of heart failure and
(02:54):
from there I ended up movingback to Sydney and got a job
there doing heart failure in amajor Sydney hospital.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Right A very famous Sydney hospital Right, a very
famous Sydney hospital, I mightadd.
Yep.
So you were working in thewards there.
What sort of things did you see?
We were talking off air justbefore, and you surprised me in
(03:23):
that at least one of thespecialists there started to use
IV magnesium for certainindications.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, this was really interesting, Andrew.
This was in a post-opneurosurgical intensive care and
the neurosurgeon used to runintravenous magnesium at
extremely high, much higher thannormal infusion rates, and his
(03:51):
aim was to push the serummagnesium and we know that serum
magnesium is pretty useless forassessing magnesium generally
but he used to push the serummagnesium up to about 2.0 and
above even higher than that inorder to address the vasospasm
(04:16):
for patients that had hadclipping of subarachnoid
hemorrhage.
Aneurysms yeah, yeah, aneurysms, or yeah, yeah, aneurysms yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So just for people who aren't with this sort of
language.
Um, the clipping is to stop theaneurysm, the, you know, berry
aneurysm or something like that,correct?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
yes, yep, yep.
Interestingly, um, I was at alater stage working in a
Melbourne intensive care.
I had a while living down thereand I had a patient that went
into SVT, otherwise known assupraventricular tachycardia,
with a rate a classic rate ofabout 180.
(04:58):
And he had a history ofischemic heart disease.
He had a history of ischemicheart disease and I ran to get
the intensivist.
After I flicked him across to a12 lead ECG on his monitor and
his ST segments had droppeddrastically, meaning he was
starting to show signs ofischemia.
(05:20):
At that rapid heart rate,unsurprisingly, the intensivist
came up to the patient, drew upa whole ampule of magnesium
sulfate and literally slammed itin and I went thinking he was
going to drop his blood pressuredrastically, but in fact within
(05:45):
about 10, 15 seconds hereverted into sinus.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And I was absolutely amazed and it kind of occurred
to me that what had happenedthere was with him slamming
magnesium in as a bolus dose,which you never do.
It's too vasoactive to do that.
This was magnesium sulfate.
He got a peak serum levelenough to revert him out of that
(06:17):
SVT back into sinus.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Into sinus.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Wow, it was quite astonishing to watch that.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well, that's experience for you.
That's really interesting,isn't?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
it Interestingly while we're talking about
arrhythmias, the post-operativeheart bypass whether that was
bypass grafts or valve repairsused to come out from theatre
with magnesium loaded into theirmaintenance IV, their fluid,
(06:51):
and the idea with that was toreduce the risk of
post-operative atrialfibrillation, which is a common
side effect post-operatively.
So that was interestingcooperatively um.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
so that was interesting and, um, you know,
this gels with the work of uhprofessor frank rosenfeld down
at the alfred in victoria umyears ago now and he used now he
preferred magnesium orotate andit was actually the orotic acid
he was after um, but magnesiumon its own has this vasodilatory
effect and helps with normalsinus rhythm as well.
(07:30):
But, very interestingly, thework that he did was reducing
atrial fib by 50%, reducinghospital stays by 30%, reducing
the cost to patient of $2,300.
And so the hospital went as youwere.
(07:52):
We like this Hospital saving.
Yes, don't worry about thepatient saving, hospital saving.
But I thought it was veryinteresting those improvements
in patient outcomes.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Very groundbreaking study, that one.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, so let's sort of go into magnesium and its
role in the cardiovascularsystem.
Can you take us through themajor points here?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I think magnesium is the first thing that comes to
mind when dealing with anypatient with hypertension, and I
think the best way for me toexplain this is Andrew, if I
gave you a balloon, you wouldjust take a big breath and blow
it up.
No issues at all.
However, if I gave you a hotwater bottle and asked you to
blow it up, you would bust a guttrying to distend the hot water
(08:52):
bottle, and that kind ofequates to what's happening to
the heart trying to expel itsoutput into the systemic
circulation.
And if that circulation isstiff and non-compliant or left
ventricular afterload, then theheart is really going to
(09:17):
struggle to do its job, which isto pump and deliver oxygenated
blood out to the tissues.
So magnesium is the missinglink here to help with turning
that hot water bottle into aballoon, as it were.
In other words, a stiff,non-compliant circulation trying
(09:40):
to help that to relax, as inthe account of vasospasm we
talked about before in intensivecare post-op neurosurge
patients.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So that afterload is basically back pressure from a
non-elastic arterial systemcorrect.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, exactly.
So magnesium is the first thingthat comes to mind.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
What's interesting to me is that when you look at
dietary guidelines, evencardiovascular stuff, they'll
always mention potassium firstand never magnesium.
Why I don't get it?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I think it's a lack of understanding about the level
to which magnesium is involvedwith over 600 different enzyme
systems and its relationship tothe ATP pump, calcium and so
forth, and there's just a lackof recognition there.
(10:45):
For example, I had a heartfailure patient who is going
back probably about nine yearsor so.
She was really struggling and Irecommended a really good
quality magnesium supplement forher and only to be reported by
(11:07):
the cardiac rehab nurse who putin actually a complaint by
saying that why is Ginarecommending magnesium?
Because her blood levels arenormal.
And I just shook my head andsaid well, you know, that is
completely irrelevant, since thevast majority of magnesium is
(11:29):
actually intracellular.
It's not within the vascularspace or the serum space at all.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
This smacks of true ignorance of physiology.
And there are certain elements,electrolytes, cations, anions,
which just don't measure well asa serum level.
You know chromium, zinc,there's so many, and yet do you
(11:57):
think this might be the issueabout why these nutrients, let's
say, are dismissed?
Because if we can't measurethem, it's not easy, we can't
send them to the pathology lab.
So what's the point?
And yet every now and againyou'll get a surgeon, like those
that you've mentioned, who knowtheir physiology and they know
(12:21):
what this important electrolytecan do in acute, you know
emergent situations.
So it's really funny how peopledon't know about it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, it's really important and it's.
Magnesium deficiency, whetherit's significant or relative, is
a huge and a widespread issue,particularly since people are
dealing with a massive amount ofstress, which is going to
increase their need formagnesium, not less so.
(12:56):
In fact, they would need moremagnesium and I think for us as
practitioners, we need to takeon board the vast and different
roles that magnesium plays.
For example, I had a child inemergency one time who had
(13:20):
severe bronchospasm, refractoryto all of the normal things that
they do with ventolin andbronchodilators in general, and
there must have been a veryastute emergency physician at
the time who organised for thatchild to have some intravenous
(13:42):
magnesium and that just resolvedthe bronchospasm.
So it's far, far broader thanwe, even as naturopaths, have
understood.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know that was one of the only sort of indications
for magnesium sulfate in theold days was status asthmaticus,
not even any cardiac issues.
It was only status asthmaticusand I think maybe preeclampsia
and that was never yeah, it wasnever ever used.
Yeah, so back to cardiovasculardisease.
Let's talk about magnesium, andwhat sort of conditions can
(14:20):
magnesium help?
And then I think we'll delveinto what forms of magnesium,
what doses, and you know whatelse you use with it.
So, firstly, what sort ofconditions do you tend to favour
?
Does it tend to be useful?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, Number one, hypertension, and I think
without access to adequatetesting, we should assume that
people are deficient and aregoing to benefit.
So, for example, you mightchoose a magnesium supplement
(14:54):
once, even twice a day.
Secondly, for arrhythmias, thisis incredibly important because
we are seeing an increase inparticularly AF now SVT and you
know other cardiac arrhythmias,and magnesium has a powerful
(15:18):
role with helping to stabilizethe electrical activity in the
heart.
So that's one of the firstthings that I would be thinking
along those lines.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
So when you're mentioning AF, atrial
fibrillation and we've spokenabout supraventricular
tachycardia before SVT whenwe're talking about atrial fib,
you know the standard sort ofprogression is you'll get
paroxysmal atrial fib, thenyou'll have all the time atrial
fib or episodes which you knowmay have to be treated by
(15:57):
cardioversion, and what normallyhappens is the patient then
goes on blood thinners, yourflecainide sort of thing, and
then they'll look at perhapscardiac ablation in the atrial,
the what is it sinoatrial nodesor the atrium, and then possibly
(16:21):
a pacemaker down the trackpotentially when you're talking
about yeah, sorry, you gopotentially, um, if people are
cardioverted which is a fairlystandard practice and and
they're not preloaded andcontinue their magnesium
(16:43):
post-procedure, they are verylikely to revert back into
atrial fibrillation, which isreally disappointing.
Right, so forgive me.
So this is they continue theirmagnesium after cardioversion
and it doesn't work, it doesn'thold them enough.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It may not, because there's some irritation around
those electrical pathways in theheart and it is common to
revert back after beingcardioverted, back into atrial
fibrillation.
But I think magnesium pre andpost would have a really, really
(17:24):
important role there.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Right, gotcha.
And do you ever combine it withlooking for, like heart muscle
damage markers, troponin I?
Or is it more to do withintracellular issues like nerve
transmission, if you like?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I'd be probably more likely to try and get a copy of
an echocardiogram report,because that's going to tell a
lot about whether the heart isstruggling, whether there's
dyssynchrony, all of those sortsof issues within the heart.
But you know, certainly thereare lots of specialists, even at
(18:08):
the hospital I worked in inSydney, that specialised in
electrical anomalies within theheart and that was kind of what
they did.
But for any ablation, anypatient that has an ablation
procedure coming up, the risk isthat they can wipe out key
(18:30):
electrical pathways and thepatient will end up with a
pacemaker or a defibrillator,which is a combined device.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Right, forgive me for asking, because I'm asking for
me here.
Is this when we're talkingabout the central bundle that
runs down the intraventricularspace?
Yes, you can damage that.
Is that what it is?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
High up into the atrium.
So before they do an ablationthey have to do really complex
and detailed electrical mappingof the heart to try and identify
where is the locus of abnormalactivity.
So, this is something that weneed to immediately be reaching
(19:18):
for if we have patients with anyarrhythmias and go in hard.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah gotcha.
So forms of magnesium you and Ihave spoken about the work of
Professor Frank Rosenfeld withmagnesium orotate, but we've had
magnesium aspartate.
I spoke with Dr Ross Walker,who uses magnesium orotate
aspartate, but we've got so manyothers that are involved in, or
(19:47):
the ligands are involved in,either helping to transport that
electrolyte or have otherfunctions with, say, nerves for
instance.
So when do you sort of choosedifferent forms or do you tend
to go no, we'll always go withthis.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I often and I always have prescribed a glycinated
form because I think that'sgenerally reasonably
bioavailable and fairly welltolerated.
But I think there's a lot ofevidence now, for I also
recommend citrate for somepatients as well.
(20:27):
I think there's emergingevidence now for the use of
threonate for neurologicalconditions and I think we,
andrew, we will see an increasein three and eight prescriptions
now because there's so manypeople now suffering from
neurological issues as well.
(20:49):
The Orotate I think there isevidence for that as well.
I tend to kind of fall back toprescribing patterns, just using
something that I know workswell and can trust.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
What about using glycerophosphate like as a
phosphate shuttle?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
like as a phosphate shuttle.
Yeah, I think there's going tobe glycerophosphate forms we
will see more of now and thatmay show enhanced
bioavailability andeffectiveness as well.
So I think we will now see moreof the supplement companies
(21:39):
formulating in that form ofmagnesium as well, so I think
that will become more common now.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, and then you know we've also got accessory
nutrients.
You know taurine zinc, you knowfish oil.
Other things though, though ofuse.
What else have you used to help?
You know other cardiacconditions?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Predominantly magnesium and, for example, I
had a patient that recently hada quadruple bypass and trying to
get him to understand theimportance of magnesium and he's
still actually not back on hismagnesium as of now, three weeks
(22:30):
post-operatively.
But I don't want him going intoatrial fibrillation.
But I don't want him going intoatrial fibrillation and it is
important to support theenergetics of the heart as well.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
You know, one of the things that interests me.
It piqued my interest and thatwas I've got a couple of friends
who have got atrial fib andone's got a pacemaker.
But the use of quercetin, andthere seems to be some evidence
here with atrial fib have youever used it?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I do often use it and often use it as a zinc
ionophore as well, so that'salso been very useful.
I think a lot of people duringCOVID actually got the CD zinc
message and it was.
(23:28):
I forget his name, he's passedon now, but he brought to the
public's attention about howquercetin is acting as a zinc
ionophore to get the zincintracellular or to enhance
(23:48):
intracellular transport of zinc.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Right Now.
Forgive me, was this the guythat put a private message to
his friends on Facebook and itgot out and he was a virologist?
Was it that guy or somebodyelse?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
No, it was.
The name will come to me later,but it was he actually treated.
President Trump was in officeat that time and he treated him
as well when he got COVID.
So he certainly used all ofthese C, cd and zinc with
(24:25):
quercetin as an ionophore.
So, potentially it has otherroles with other minerals as
well.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Gotcha Okay.
And what other sort ofnutrients, other herbs in fact,
do you use with cardiacconditions and where I remember
there was a I keep defaultingand under.
I don't think this is right,but it was a a trial on
hawthorne leaves, and I keepgoing.
(24:57):
Dart trials wasn't called thedart trial.
That was diet and reinfarction.
Um, there was a trial that wasdone on hawthorn, um, but quite
some years ago.
Do you ever use herbs, and foryes, and I do use that with
heart failure.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's particularly useful with heart failure
classifications.
There's one, two, three andfour.
Four is I cannot get out of thechair or bed.
I'm so breathless even at rest.
Three is breathless on veryminimal exertion.
Two is where most people withheart failure sit.
They're breathless withexertion such as going upstairs
(25:37):
or an incline.
And one is they have heartfailure but they have no
symptoms.
So there is good evidence touse hawthorne in class two and
three, so sometimes I might evenuse that as a standalone.
For example, I've got a patientlocally with myocarditis and
(25:59):
post-jab and she is using theHawthorne as well, amongst many
other supplements.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
The other thing, of course.
The other nutrient I guess weshould talk about is ubiquinol.
How often do you use it and doyou tend to favour certain
conditions?
Do you ever use it judiciously?
How high do you go?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yes, I use 300 milligrams a day of ubiquinol,
not ubiquinone, because for mostpeople, you know, once they're
over 40, they're going to dobetter on ubiquinol.
So I do use that.
In fact, I recommended it for apatient with heart failure I
(26:44):
saw yesterday, and it is allagain about supporting
mitochondrial energy production.
So of course we're thinkingmagnesium, we're thinking B
vitamins, we're thinking CoQ10,in this case, ubiquinol.
(27:05):
So that is something that Idefinitely would recommend often
.
That is something that Idefinitely would recommend often
.
The other thing, andrew, thatcomes to mind is for so many
patients are on proton pumpinhibitors now and obviously we
know that if you change stomachacid you're going to impede the
(27:27):
absorption of magnesium, zinc,to impede the absorption of
magnesium, zinc, folate, iron,b12, calcium and so on.
So for those people, there aresome that we're never going to
get off PPIs, potentially thosewith Barrett's esophagus,
possibly those with my hiatushernia.
(27:48):
So I'm kind of leaning more nowto trying to bypass that
absorption altogether andputting those people on a
topical magnesium as well.
So just using a really goodquality magnesium spray.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Right and clinical effects.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Clinical effects are seen more rapidly, um, probably
in kids, uh.
So for kids with anxiety, um,really difficult to get to sleep
, all of those sorts of things,and often the topical magnesiums
are a magnesium chloride, um,but it seems to get fairly good
(28:32):
absorption and you notice theeffects more readily in those
people.
I've got one patient who isusing topical magnesium, for
he's got a diabetes-relatedperipheral neuropathy.
His feet are affected, so he'susing that both feet and he's
(28:52):
getting really good results withthat okay, and what about?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
um the?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
idea here is to get as much magnesium into the
system as people can can copewith great, okay, so that leads
on to my next question, that is,doses.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Like we've got to obviously circumvent bowel
tolerance, which I've had a widebreadth of experience here with
different patients somebody whocould tolerate NAFOL and we had
to use a really poorly absorbedlower dose magnesium, and other
people that can really, youknow, really take a lot of
(29:35):
magnesium in and without anyeffect on their stomach, on
their intestines whatsoever.
What's your experience?
What does it show you?
Is there a sweet spot withdosage with magnesium?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I think, as you said, it's very individual.
Some people will not eventolerate, um you know, like they
might get diarrhea with a asort of a half decent dose of
magnesium glycinate, which to meis a very well tolerated,
(30:07):
bioavailable form of magnesium.
Um other people can soak it uplike a sponge.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, yeah, it's really amazing.
I'll always remember this.
The triathlete from Kilcoy.
You know how you rememberpatients because of some aspect
of them, the triathlete fromKilcoy and he just could not
tolerate magnesium and in theend we had to use a pretty
poorly absorbed phosphate typelower dose thing and he wasn't
(30:35):
really getting great effect.
But it was like all that hecould handle with BALT on it.
And that's when I spoke to himabout perhaps find an
integrative GP to do intravenousmagnesium.
Eventually I lost contact withhim.
The other side of the spectrumis I'll always remember this I
did my neck drying my hair witha towel I mean these anecdotes
(30:58):
but I took three teaspoons threetimes a day, so a total of nine
teaspoons like that's two, four, six, three, six.
1800 milligrams, massive and nobowel tolerance whatsoever.
(31:18):
And I'll always remember.
A few months later I related itto somebody who walked in to
where I was practicing like thiswith tears in her eyes.
I said what have you done?
Put my neck out?
I said okay, got her bookedinto somebody that was going to
look after her treatment lateron.
But for now I said okay, let'sget you onto the magnesium.
And I said now I've taken three, three and three, total of nine
(31:42):
teaspoons Right.
And two weeks later and I saidlook, I don't normally do that,
I normally go two and two for ahigh dose and as long as their
renal function's okay.
But a couple of weeks later shecame back and she said I tried
that nine teaspoons, like yousaid, but, gee, it cleaned me
(32:04):
out.
And I said, well, how did youtake it, like three, three and
three?
She said no, no, nine teaspoonsStat.
I said how did you stir it?
But to me it's.
She said it worked really well,but it cleaned me out.
Um so, um, I just thought itwas yeah, that it's a.
It's a lesson in explaininginstructions clearly to patients
(32:27):
.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I think it is really important to be um really
specific with dosing.
That one guy that I mentionedthat's recently had a quadruple
bypass.
He overdosed on his magnesiumand had the same thing.
He he didn't follow my explicitinstructions and he was, yeah,
(32:49):
he had diarrhea.
So it is something you know, nomatter how explicit.
I copy their prescription intotheir plan so that they know
exactly what they should bedoing.
And some people just maybe theydon't follow instructions well
and they can overdo it.
(33:09):
And the other thing of concernis to if people obviously, when
I was a heart failure nurse, uh,I had a lot of patients with
very, very reduced um renalfunction and once you get to an
egfr of less than 30, you'vereally, really got to be
(33:30):
cautious.
As with any medicines andsupplements some supplements,
not all but magnesium is one ofthem where you really need to
back off on that dosing becauseyou don't want to cause them any
issues, because obviouslymagnesium levels are controlled
(33:53):
by the kidneys to some extentwhat was your level of cut off?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
what was your level of woo back off?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
40 egfr of 30 or less 30 or less, so gotcha often, as
naturopaths, we're panickingabout slightly reduced EGFR, but
for many patients it's notreally an issue and they can
tolerate most meds and mostsupplements until their renal
(34:23):
function is really markedlyreduced.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So I'd want to become cautious at that level.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, so I'd want to become cautious at that level.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Just a last question, Gina how can we encourage
patients and what can werecommend with regards to
lifestyle factors to help withtheir cardiovascular health?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think all the things that we do well as
naturopaths, which istransitioning people to a whole
foods diet rich in vegetablesparticularly the dark, green and
leafy nuts and seeds, reallygood quality protein, moving
away from sugar, which is goingto deplete people's magnesium,
(35:12):
chromium and and and so stressmanagement is always going to be
a big part of what we look atas naturopaths.
And, for example, exercise,being outside in nature,
grounding all the things that wewant to encourage people to do
(35:33):
to manage their stress.
But I can say that stress isrampant right now and that's
something as naturopaths I thinkthat we do really well.
And whilst magnesium, zinc, allof those B vitamins are going
to help with a stress response,we still need to come in with
(35:56):
dietary modifications and all ofthose lifestyle things.
Stress management, you know,for some people it will be
meditation, for other peopleexercise, grounding all of those
sorts of things that wenormally would do in a consult
gina.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
There's obviously a wealth of expertise there
through and I'm going to say itwithout, without fear, but many,
many years of of practice.
So thank you so much for takingus through not just magnesium
but everything else that we canhelp use to help our patients
with cardiovascular issues.
Thank you so much for taking usthrough these today.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Gina, yeah, you're very welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
And thank you everyone for joining us.
Remember you can catch up ontoday's show notes and the other
podcasts on the Designs forHealth website.
I'm Andrew Whitfield-Cook.
This is Wellness by Designs.
Welcome back to Wellness by Designs.
I'm your host, AndrewWhitfield-Cook, and joining us
today is Gina Robertson, anaturopath registered nurse and
former heart failure specialistnurse.
Today we're going to bespeaking about the importance of
magnesium in cardiovasculardisease.
Welcome, Gina, how are you?
And thanks so much for yourtime.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Thank you for having me really appreciate this
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, Gina, it's our pleasure.
Firstly, can I ask you, likemyself, you're a registered
nurse.
I can still remember me beingbashed over the head saying that
natural medicine didn't workand was all load of bunkum and
that sort of thing.
What piqued your interest innatural medicines to begin with?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I think this dates back to 2001 when I did the
ACNEM course, australasianCollege of Nutritional
Environmental Medicine, and thatwas their primary course and of
course there was a lot aboutmagnesium.
So that always really, reallystayed with me, particularly in
(01:17):
the context of heart failure,chronic diseases, hypertension
and arrhythmias, and so that'sbeen a real long-term interest.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
What piqued your interest to do the ACNEM course?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I mean, you know, I think I already had a leaning
and I was doing a lot ofresearch into natural medicines,
bioidentical hormones, a wholelot of things really grabbed my
interest.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And that's kind of when it all started.
Gotcha, and tell us a littlebit about your history as a
registered nurse, working incardiac wards and intensive care
.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So most of my career was spent in intensive care.
So that was both general andcardiothoracic intensive care
with a little bit of PEDS inthere as well in there as well
(02:33):
and I gave that away probablywhen I was.
I'd been in that for a longtime and I was starting to
struggle with the shift work, sothat kind of dates back From
there.
I went on and did pathologyhospital in the home and that
was where I got my entree intothe world of heart failure and
(02:54):
from there I ended up movingback to Sydney and got a job
there doing heart failure in amajor Sydney hospital.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Right A very famous Sydney hospital Right, a very
famous Sydney hospital, I mightadd.
Yep.
So you were working in thewards there.
What sort of things did you see?
We were talking off air justbefore, and you surprised me in
(03:23):
that at least one of thespecialists there started to use
IV magnesium for certainindications.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, this was really interesting, Andrew.
This was in a post-opneurosurgical intensive care and
the neurosurgeon used to runintravenous magnesium at
extremely high, much higher thannormal infusion rates, and his
(03:51):
aim was to push the serummagnesium and we know that serum
magnesium is pretty useless forassessing magnesium generally
but he used to push the serummagnesium up to about 2.0 and
above even higher than that inorder to address the vasospasm
(04:16):
for patients that had hadclipping of subarachnoid
hemorrhage.
Aneurysms yeah, yeah, aneurysms, or yeah, yeah, aneurysms yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So just for people who aren't with this sort of
language.
Um, the clipping is to stop theaneurysm, the, you know, berry
aneurysm or something like that,correct?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
yes, yep, yep.
Interestingly, um, I was at alater stage working in a
Melbourne intensive care.
I had a while living down thereand I had a patient that went
into SVT, otherwise known assupraventricular tachycardia,
with a rate a classic rate ofabout 180.
(04:58):
And he had a history ofischemic heart disease.
He had a history of ischemicheart disease and I ran to get
the intensivist.
After I flicked him across to a12 lead ECG on his monitor and
his ST segments had droppeddrastically, meaning he was
starting to show signs ofischemia.
(05:20):
At that rapid heart rate,unsurprisingly, the intensivist
came up to the patient, drew upa whole ampule of magnesium
sulfate and literally slammed itin and I went thinking he was
going to drop his blood pressuredrastically, but in fact within
(05:45):
about 10, 15 seconds hereverted into sinus.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And I was absolutely amazed and it kind of occurred
to me that what had happenedthere was with him slamming
magnesium in as a bolus dose,which you never do.
It's too vasoactive to do that.
This was magnesium sulfate.
He got a peak serum levelenough to revert him out of that
(06:17):
SVT back into sinus.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Into sinus.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Wow, it was quite astonishing to watch that.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well, that's experience for you.
That's really interesting,isn't?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
it Interestingly while we're talking about
arrhythmias, the post-operativeheart bypass whether that was
bypass grafts or valve repairsused to come out from theatre
with magnesium loaded into theirmaintenance IV, their fluid,
(06:51):
and the idea with that was toreduce the risk of
post-operative atrialfibrillation, which is a common
side effect post-operatively.
So that was interestingcooperatively um.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
so that was interesting and, um, you know,
this gels with the work of uhprofessor frank rosenfeld down
at the alfred in victoria umyears ago now and he used now he
preferred magnesium orotate andit was actually the orotic acid
he was after um, but magnesiumon its own has this vasodilatory
effect and helps with normalsinus rhythm as well.
(07:30):
But, very interestingly, thework that he did was reducing
atrial fib by 50%, reducinghospital stays by 30%, reducing
the cost to patient of $2,300.
And so the hospital went as youwere.
(07:52):
We like this Hospital saving.
Yes, don't worry about thepatient saving, hospital saving.
But I thought it was veryinteresting those improvements
in patient outcomes.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Very groundbreaking study, that one.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, so let's sort of go into magnesium and its
role in the cardiovascularsystem.
Can you take us through themajor points here?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I think magnesium is the first thing that comes to
mind when dealing with anypatient with hypertension, and I
think the best way for me toexplain this is Andrew, if I
gave you a balloon, you wouldjust take a big breath and blow
it up.
No issues at all.
However, if I gave you a hotwater bottle and asked you to
blow it up, you would bust a guttrying to distend the hot water
(08:52):
bottle, and that kind ofequates to what's happening to
the heart trying to expel itsoutput into the systemic
circulation.
And if that circulation isstiff and non-compliant or left
ventricular afterload, then theheart is really going to
(09:17):
struggle to do its job, which isto pump and deliver oxygenated
blood out to the tissues.
So magnesium is the missinglink here to help with turning
that hot water bottle into aballoon, as it were.
In other words, a stiff,non-compliant circulation trying
(09:40):
to help that to relax, as inthe account of vasospasm we
talked about before in intensivecare post-op neurosurge
patients.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So that afterload is basically back pressure from a
non-elastic arterial systemcorrect.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, exactly.
So magnesium is the first thingthat comes to mind.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
What's interesting to me is that when you look at
dietary guidelines, evencardiovascular stuff, they'll
always mention potassium firstand never magnesium.
Why I don't get it?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I think it's a lack of understanding about the level
to which magnesium is involvedwith over 600 different enzyme
systems and its relationship tothe ATP pump, calcium and so
forth, and there's just a lackof recognition there.
(10:45):
For example, I had a heartfailure patient who is going
back probably about nine yearsor so.
She was really struggling and Irecommended a really good
quality magnesium supplement forher and only to be reported by
(11:07):
the cardiac rehab nurse who putin actually a complaint by
saying that why is Ginarecommending magnesium?
Because her blood levels arenormal.
And I just shook my head andsaid well, you know, that is
completely irrelevant, since thevast majority of magnesium is
(11:29):
actually intracellular.
It's not within the vascularspace or the serum space at all.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
This smacks of true ignorance of physiology.
And there are certain elements,electrolytes, cations, anions,
which just don't measure well asa serum level.
You know chromium, zinc,there's so many, and yet do you
(11:57):
think this might be the issueabout why these nutrients, let's
say, are dismissed?
Because if we can't measurethem, it's not easy, we can't
send them to the pathology lab.
So what's the point?
And yet every now and againyou'll get a surgeon, like those
that you've mentioned, who knowtheir physiology and they know
(12:21):
what this important electrolytecan do in acute, you know
emergent situations.
So it's really funny how peopledon't know about it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, it's really important and it's.
Magnesium deficiency, whetherit's significant or relative, is
a huge and a widespread issue,particularly since people are
dealing with a massive amount ofstress, which is going to
increase their need formagnesium, not less so.
(12:56):
In fact, they would need moremagnesium and I think for us as
practitioners, we need to takeon board the vast and different
roles that magnesium plays.
For example, I had a child inemergency one time who had
(13:20):
severe bronchospasm, refractoryto all of the normal things that
they do with ventolin andbronchodilators in general, and
there must have been a veryastute emergency physician at
the time who organised for thatchild to have some intravenous
(13:42):
magnesium and that just resolvedthe bronchospasm.
So it's far, far broader thanwe, even as naturopaths, have
understood.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know that was one of the only sort of indications
for magnesium sulfate in theold days was status asthmaticus,
not even any cardiac issues.
It was only status asthmaticusand I think maybe preeclampsia
and that was never yeah, it wasnever ever used.
Yeah, so back to cardiovasculardisease.
Let's talk about magnesium, andwhat sort of conditions can
(14:20):
magnesium help?
And then I think we'll delveinto what forms of magnesium,
what doses, and you know whatelse you use with it.
So, firstly, what sort ofconditions do you tend to favour
?
Does it tend to be useful?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, Number one, hypertension, and I think
without access to adequatetesting, we should assume that
people are deficient and aregoing to benefit.
So, for example, you mightchoose a magnesium supplement
(14:54):
once, even twice a day.
Secondly, for arrhythmias, thisis incredibly important because
we are seeing an increase inparticularly AF now SVT and you
know other cardiac arrhythmias,and magnesium has a powerful
(15:18):
role with helping to stabilizethe electrical activity in the
heart.
So that's one of the firstthings that I would be thinking
along those lines.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
So when you're mentioning AF, atrial
fibrillation and we've spokenabout supraventricular
tachycardia before SVT whenwe're talking about atrial fib,
you know the standard sort ofprogression is you'll get
paroxysmal atrial fib, thenyou'll have all the time atrial
fib or episodes which you knowmay have to be treated by
(15:57):
cardioversion, and what normallyhappens is the patient then
goes on blood thinners, yourflecainide sort of thing, and
then they'll look at perhapscardiac ablation in the atrial,
the what is it sinoatrial nodesor the atrium, and then possibly
(16:21):
a pacemaker down the trackpotentially when you're talking
about yeah, sorry, you gopotentially, um, if people are
cardioverted which is a fairlystandard practice and and
they're not preloaded andcontinue their magnesium
(16:43):
post-procedure, they are verylikely to revert back into
atrial fibrillation, which isreally disappointing.
Right, so forgive me.
So this is they continue theirmagnesium after cardioversion
and it doesn't work, it doesn'thold them enough.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It may not, because there's some irritation around
those electrical pathways in theheart and it is common to
revert back after beingcardioverted, back into atrial
fibrillation.
But I think magnesium pre andpost would have a really, really
(17:24):
important role there.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Right, gotcha.
And do you ever combine it withlooking for, like heart muscle
damage markers, troponin I?
Or is it more to do withintracellular issues like nerve
transmission, if you like?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I'd be probably more likely to try and get a copy of
an echocardiogram report,because that's going to tell a
lot about whether the heart isstruggling, whether there's
dyssynchrony, all of those sortsof issues within the heart.
But you know, certainly thereare lots of specialists, even at
(18:08):
the hospital I worked in inSydney, that specialised in
electrical anomalies within theheart and that was kind of what
they did.
But for any ablation, anypatient that has an ablation
procedure coming up, the risk isthat they can wipe out key
(18:30):
electrical pathways and thepatient will end up with a
pacemaker or a defibrillator,which is a combined device.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Right, forgive me for asking, because I'm asking for
me here.
Is this when we're talkingabout the central bundle that
runs down the intraventricularspace?
Yes, you can damage that.
Is that what it is?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
High up into the atrium.
So before they do an ablationthey have to do really complex
and detailed electrical mappingof the heart to try and identify
where is the locus of abnormalactivity.
So, this is something that weneed to immediately be reaching
(19:18):
for if we have patients with anyarrhythmias and go in hard.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah gotcha.
So forms of magnesium you and Ihave spoken about the work of
Professor Frank Rosenfeld withmagnesium orotate, but we've had
magnesium aspartate.
I spoke with Dr Ross Walker,who uses magnesium orotate
aspartate, but we've got so manyothers that are involved in, or
(19:47):
the ligands are involved in,either helping to transport that
electrolyte or have otherfunctions with, say, nerves for
instance.
So when do you sort of choosedifferent forms or do you tend
to go no, we'll always go withthis.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I often and I always have prescribed a glycinated
form because I think that'sgenerally reasonably
bioavailable and fairly welltolerated.
But I think there's a lot ofevidence now, for I also
recommend citrate for somepatients as well.
(20:27):
I think there's emergingevidence now for the use of
threonate for neurologicalconditions and I think we,
andrew, we will see an increasein three and eight prescriptions
now because there's so manypeople now suffering from
neurological issues as well.
(20:49):
The Orotate I think there isevidence for that as well.
I tend to kind of fall back toprescribing patterns, just using
something that I know workswell and can trust.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
What about using glycerophosphate like as a
phosphate shuttle?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
like as a phosphate shuttle.
Yeah, I think there's going tobe glycerophosphate forms we
will see more of now and thatmay show enhanced
bioavailability andeffectiveness as well.
So I think we will now see moreof the supplement companies
(21:39):
formulating in that form ofmagnesium as well, so I think
that will become more common now.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, and then you know we've also got accessory
nutrients.
You know taurine zinc, you knowfish oil.
Other things though, though ofuse.
What else have you used to help?
You know other cardiacconditions?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Predominantly magnesium and, for example, I
had a patient that recently hada quadruple bypass and trying to
get him to understand theimportance of magnesium and he's
still actually not back on hismagnesium as of now, three weeks
(22:30):
post-operatively.
But I don't want him going intoatrial fibrillation.
But I don't want him going intoatrial fibrillation and it is
important to support theenergetics of the heart as well.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
You know, one of the things that interests me.
It piqued my interest and thatwas I've got a couple of friends
who have got atrial fib andone's got a pacemaker.
But the use of quercetin, andthere seems to be some evidence
here with atrial fib have youever used it?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I do often use it and often use it as a zinc
ionophore as well, so that'salso been very useful.
I think a lot of people duringCOVID actually got the CD zinc
message and it was.
(23:28):
I forget his name, he's passedon now, but he brought to the
public's attention about howquercetin is acting as a zinc
ionophore to get the zincintracellular or to enhance
(23:48):
intracellular transport of zinc.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Right Now.
Forgive me, was this the guythat put a private message to
his friends on Facebook and itgot out and he was a virologist?
Was it that guy or somebodyelse?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
No, it was.
The name will come to me later,but it was he actually treated.
President Trump was in officeat that time and he treated him
as well when he got COVID.
So he certainly used all ofthese C, cd and zinc with
(24:25):
quercetin as an ionophore.
So, potentially it has otherroles with other minerals as
well.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Gotcha Okay.
And what other sort ofnutrients, other herbs in fact,
do you use with cardiacconditions and where I remember
there was a I keep defaultingand under.
I don't think this is right,but it was a a trial on
hawthorne leaves, and I keepgoing.
(24:57):
Dart trials wasn't called thedart trial.
That was diet and reinfarction.
Um, there was a trial that wasdone on hawthorn, um, but quite
some years ago.
Do you ever use herbs, and foryes, and I do use that with
heart failure.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's particularly useful with heart failure
classifications.
There's one, two, three andfour.
Four is I cannot get out of thechair or bed.
I'm so breathless even at rest.
Three is breathless on veryminimal exertion.
Two is where most people withheart failure sit.
They're breathless withexertion such as going upstairs
(25:37):
or an incline.
And one is they have heartfailure but they have no
symptoms.
So there is good evidence touse hawthorne in class two and
three, so sometimes I might evenuse that as a standalone.
For example, I've got a patientlocally with myocarditis and
(25:59):
post-jab and she is using theHawthorne as well, amongst many
other supplements.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
The other thing, of course.
The other nutrient I guess weshould talk about is ubiquinol.
How often do you use it and doyou tend to favour certain
conditions?
Do you ever use it judiciously?
How high do you go?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yes, I use 300 milligrams a day of ubiquinol,
not ubiquinone, because for mostpeople, you know, once they're
over 40, they're going to dobetter on ubiquinol.
So I do use that.
In fact, I recommended it for apatient with heart failure I
(26:44):
saw yesterday, and it is allagain about supporting
mitochondrial energy production.
So of course we're thinkingmagnesium, we're thinking B
vitamins, we're thinking CoQ10,in this case, ubiquinol.
(27:05):
So that is something that Idefinitely would recommend often
.
That is something that Idefinitely would recommend often
.
The other thing, andrew, thatcomes to mind is for so many
patients are on proton pumpinhibitors now and obviously we
know that if you change stomachacid you're going to impede the
(27:27):
absorption of magnesium, zinc,to impede the absorption of
magnesium, zinc, folate, iron,b12, calcium and so on.
So for those people, there aresome that we're never going to
get off PPIs, potentially thosewith Barrett's esophagus,
possibly those with my hiatushernia.
(27:48):
So I'm kind of leaning more nowto trying to bypass that
absorption altogether andputting those people on a
topical magnesium as well.
So just using a really goodquality magnesium spray.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Right and clinical effects.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Clinical effects are seen more rapidly, um, probably
in kids, uh.
So for kids with anxiety, um,really difficult to get to sleep
, all of those sorts of things,and often the topical magnesiums
are a magnesium chloride, um,but it seems to get fairly good
(28:32):
absorption and you notice theeffects more readily in those
people.
I've got one patient who isusing topical magnesium, for
he's got a diabetes-relatedperipheral neuropathy.
His feet are affected, so he'susing that both feet and he's
(28:52):
getting really good results withthat okay, and what about?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
um the?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
idea here is to get as much magnesium into the
system as people can can copewith great, okay, so that leads
on to my next question, that is,doses.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Like we've got to obviously circumvent bowel
tolerance, which I've had a widebreadth of experience here with
different patients somebody whocould tolerate NAFOL and we had
to use a really poorly absorbedlower dose magnesium, and other
people that can really, youknow, really take a lot of
(29:35):
magnesium in and without anyeffect on their stomach, on
their intestines whatsoever.
What's your experience?
What does it show you?
Is there a sweet spot withdosage with magnesium?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I think, as you said, it's very individual.
Some people will not eventolerate, um you know, like they
might get diarrhea with a asort of a half decent dose of
magnesium glycinate, which to meis a very well tolerated,
(30:07):
bioavailable form of magnesium.
Um other people can soak it uplike a sponge.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, yeah, it's really amazing.
I'll always remember this.
The triathlete from Kilcoy.
You know how you rememberpatients because of some aspect
of them, the triathlete fromKilcoy and he just could not
tolerate magnesium and in theend we had to use a pretty
poorly absorbed phosphate typelower dose thing and he wasn't
(30:35):
really getting great effect.
But it was like all that hecould handle with BALT on it.
And that's when I spoke to himabout perhaps find an
integrative GP to do intravenousmagnesium.
Eventually I lost contact withhim.
The other side of the spectrumis I'll always remember this I
did my neck drying my hair witha towel I mean these anecdotes
(30:58):
but I took three teaspoons threetimes a day, so a total of nine
teaspoons like that's two, four, six, three, six.
1800 milligrams, massive and nobowel tolerance whatsoever.
(31:18):
And I'll always remember.
A few months later I related itto somebody who walked in to
where I was practicing like thiswith tears in her eyes.
I said what have you done?
Put my neck out?
I said okay, got her bookedinto somebody that was going to
look after her treatment lateron.
But for now I said okay, let'sget you onto the magnesium.
And I said now I've taken three, three and three, total of nine
(31:42):
teaspoons Right.
And two weeks later and I saidlook, I don't normally do that,
I normally go two and two for ahigh dose and as long as their
renal function's okay.
But a couple of weeks later shecame back and she said I tried
that nine teaspoons, like yousaid, but, gee, it cleaned me
(32:04):
out.
And I said, well, how did youtake it, like three, three and
three?
She said no, no, nine teaspoonsStat.
I said how did you stir it?
But to me it's.
She said it worked really well,but it cleaned me out.
Um so, um, I just thought itwas yeah, that it's a.
It's a lesson in explaininginstructions clearly to patients
(32:27):
.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I think it is really important to be um really
specific with dosing.
That one guy that I mentionedthat's recently had a quadruple
bypass.
He overdosed on his magnesiumand had the same thing.
He he didn't follow my explicitinstructions and he was, yeah,
(32:49):
he had diarrhea.
So it is something you know, nomatter how explicit.
I copy their prescription intotheir plan so that they know
exactly what they should bedoing.
And some people just maybe theydon't follow instructions well
and they can overdo it.
(33:09):
And the other thing of concernis to if people obviously, when
I was a heart failure nurse, uh,I had a lot of patients with
very, very reduced um renalfunction and once you get to an
egfr of less than 30, you'vereally, really got to be
(33:30):
cautious.
As with any medicines andsupplements some supplements,
not all but magnesium is one ofthem where you really need to
back off on that dosing becauseyou don't want to cause them any
issues, because obviouslymagnesium levels are controlled
(33:53):
by the kidneys to some extentwhat was your level of cut off?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
what was your level of woo back off?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
40 egfr of 30 or less 30 or less, so gotcha often, as
naturopaths, we're panickingabout slightly reduced EGFR, but
for many patients it's notreally an issue and they can
tolerate most meds and mostsupplements until their renal
(34:23):
function is really markedlyreduced.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So I'd want to become cautious at that level.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, so I'd want to become cautious at that level.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Just a last question, Gina how can we encourage
patients and what can werecommend with regards to
lifestyle factors to help withtheir cardiovascular health?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think all the things that we do well as
naturopaths, which istransitioning people to a whole
foods diet rich in vegetablesparticularly the dark, green and
leafy nuts and seeds, reallygood quality protein, moving
away from sugar, which is goingto deplete people's magnesium,
(35:12):
chromium and and and so stressmanagement is always going to be
a big part of what we look atas naturopaths.
And, for example, exercise,being outside in nature,
grounding all the things that wewant to encourage people to do
(35:33):
to manage their stress.
But I can say that stress isrampant right now and that's
something as naturopaths I thinkthat we do really well.
And whilst magnesium, zinc, allof those B vitamins are going
to help with a stress response,we still need to come in with
(35:56):
dietary modifications and all ofthose lifestyle things.
Stress management, you know,for some people it will be
meditation, for other peopleexercise, grounding all of those
sorts of things that wenormally would do in a consult
gina.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
There's obviously a wealth of expertise there
through and I'm going to say itwithout, without fear, but many,
many years of of practice.
So thank you so much for takingus through not just magnesium
but everything else that we canhelp use to help our patients
with cardiovascular issues.
Thank you so much for taking usthrough these today.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Gina, yeah, you're very welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
And thank you everyone for joining us.
Remember you can catch up ontoday's show notes and the other
podcasts on the Designs forHealth website.
I'm Andrew Whitfield-Cook.
This is Wellness by Designs.
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