February 5, 2025 • 34 mins
ABOUT MARK PODOLSKY
Mark owns Frontier Properties, a land investment company. Mark (AKA The Land Geek) is widely considered the country’s most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw, undeveloped land in the United States.
Since 2001 Mark has completed over 6,000 raw land deals with an average return on investment of over 300% on cash purchases and over 1000% on land deals that he financed. Mark is the host of one of the top-rated podcasts in the Investing Category on iTunes aptly titled The Art of Passive Income Model.
THIS TOPIC IN A NUTSHELL:
Mark’s career and journey to real estate
About his book "Dirt Rich
Resilience in building a land investment business
From investment banking to land investing
Strategies for selling land and creating cash flow
Land Market Identification
His method of acquiring land deals
Common pitfalls and red flags in land investing
Software tools used to streamline the systems
Coaching and helping others succeed
Connect with Mark
KEY QUOTE:
“If you look at the cycle in real estate, there are times that it's going to be easy to buy and it's going to be easy to sell, let's call it equilibrium. But at any one point in that cycle, you're still in a good situation, especially if you know where you are at in the cycle. “
SUMMARY OF BUSINESS:
Frontier Properties, a land investment company - specializes in the acquisition of raw & developed land throughout the United States. We look for property in the path of development with compelling attributes and excellent ingress and egress.
ABOUT THE WESTSIDE INVESTORS NETWORK
The Westside Investors Network is your community for investing knowledge for growth. For real estate professionals by real estate professionals. This show is focused on the next step in your career... investing, for those starting with nothing to multifamily syndication.
The Westside Investors Network strives to bring knowledge and education to real estate professionals that is seeking to gain more freedom in their life. The host AJ and Chris Shepard, are committed to sharing the wealth of knowledge that they have gained throughout the years to allow others the opportunity to learn and grow in their investing. They own Uptown Properties, a successful Property Management, and Brokerage Company. If you are interested in Property Management in the Portland Metro or Bend Metro Areas, please visit www.uptownpm.com. If you are interested in investing in multifamily syndication, please visit www.uptownsyndication.com.
#RealEstateInvesting #RealEstate #ClosingDeals #CreatingWealth #TheLandGeek #DirtRich #LandInvestment #LandInvesting #InvestmentStrategies #LandDeals #RedFlagsToAvoid #CommonPitfalls #RealEstateCycle #RawLand #LandFlipping #LandAcquisition #BuyingAndSellingLand #BestSellingAuthor #PassiveIncomeModel #LeasingRawLand #Acquisition #InvestorReturns #RealEstateInvestments #InvestmentOpportunities #SteadyCashFlow #LatestPodcastEpisode #PassiveWealth #JoinTheWINpod #DealDeepDive #WestsideInvestorsNetwork
CONNECT WITH MARK:
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelandgeek
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro speaker (00:03):
Welcome to the Westside Investors Network. Win,
your community of investingknowledge for growth. This is
the Real Estate ProfessionalsInvesting podcast for real
estate professionals by realestate professionals. This show
is focused on the next step inyour career, investing. Thank
you for listening.
And please, if you like ourcontent, rate us on your podcast
(00:23):
provider. Just a quickdisclaimer, the views and
opinions expressed in thispodcast
are for educational purposesonly and should not be construed
as an offer to buy or sell anyshares or securities, make or
consider any investments, ortake any other action.
Trent Werner (00:40):
Welcome back to another episode of the Deal Deep
Dive segment on the WestsideInvestors Network podcast. I'm
your host, Trent Werner. In thissegment, our featured guests
will share their unique storieson a specific deal they've
invested in. We will dive deepinto finding the deal, financing
the deal, writing an offer, andthe due diligence. Do us a solid
and smash that subscribe button,leave us a rating, and share
(01:03):
this episode.
And now let's dive deep. Welcomeback to the Westside Investors
Network podcast. I'm your host,Trem Werner. On today's episode,
we're joined by Mark Podolsky ofthe Land Geek. Mark is known as
the Land Geek because he's beeninvesting and selling land since
February.
He was able to replace his fulltime job back in the day after
(01:25):
just his first twelve monthsdoing this, and he is going to
share the steps and process ofwhich it takes to become a land
investor, not only land flipper,but creating cash flow monthly
from finding deals that you'rebuying for pennies on the
dollar. Now let's welcome MarkPodolsky. Alright. The Westside
(01:45):
Investors Network podcast isback with the land geek himself,
Mark Podolsky. Thanks forjoining us.
Mark Podolsky (01:51):
Trent Werner, thanks so much for having me.
Trent Werner (01:55):
I told Mark this before we started recording. I
am kind of a fanboy, so I'msuper excited for, our
conversation today. Mark has agreat book, that we actually
have a link that our listenerscan go check it out and get it.
So thank you, Mark, for that.Mark, for people that don't know
who you are, you wanna tell usabout Mark Podolsky and the land
geek himself?
Mark Podolsky (02:16):
Yeah. So if we rewind the tape to 2,000, I was
a miserable, micromanaged, fortyfive minute commute to work and
back investment bankerspecializing in mergers and
acquisitions with private equitygroups. And Trent, it got so bad
for me. I wouldn't get theSunday blues, anticipating
(02:37):
Monday coming around. I get theFriday blues anticipating the
weekend going by really fast andhaving to be back at work on
Monday.
So my firm hires this guy, andhe's telling me that as a side
hustle, he's buying raw land,pennies on the dollar at tax
deed auctions. He's flippingthem online, and he's making a
300% return on his money. InTrent, I'm looking at companies
(02:57):
all day long. And a greatcompany, great, has 15% EBITDA
margins or free cash flow.Average company is 10%, and I'm
looking at companies all daylong less than 10%.
So I'm from Missouri, the showme state, and I don't believe
them. So I've got $3 saved upfor car repairs. I go to New
Mexico with them. I do exactlywhat he tells me to do. I buy 10
(03:19):
half acre parcels in the averageprice of $300 each.
I flip them online, and they allsell for an average price of
$1,200 each. It worked 300%. SoI took all that money, went to
another auction where I live,and this is in Arizona. And
there's, you know, it's 2,000.There's no one in the room.
And I'm buying up lots ofacreage for nothing. And I sell
all that land. I made over$90,000 cash. So I go to my wife
(03:41):
and she's pregnant. I said,honey, I'm gonna quit my job and
become a full time landinvestor.
And she said, absolutely not. SoI said, okay. Okay. Okay. So it
took eighteen months for theland investing income to exceed
the investment banking income,and then I quit.
I've been doing it full timeever since. I've done over 6,500
(04:02):
land deals now and counting andand still absolutely love it.
Trent Werner (04:07):
So for that first deal, you said it was 10 half
acre parcels for $300 a piece?Yeah. So that's just not
possible anymore. Right?
Mark Podolsky (04:16):
No. You can still get properties cheap.
Trent Werner (04:20):
Were you so you said you were in Arizona at the
time, but this one was in NewMexico. Is that right?
Mark Podolsky (04:24):
Yeah. That was in New Mexico. I'm I live in
Scottsdale, Arizona.
Trent Werner (04:28):
Okay.
Mark Podolsky (04:28):
Yeah. And But that that auction was, like,
Southern Arizona.
Trent Werner (04:31):
Okay. Okay.
Mark Podolsky (04:32):
Yeah.
Trent Werner (04:33):
So I know you had a coworker colleague that was
doing this on the side thatintroduced you to it. Was there
anything that or any researchthat you did by yourself after,
you know, he explained what hewas doing?
Mark Podolsky (04:47):
Well, yeah. I mean, then I came up with my own
way of doing it. So we sort ofcame up together. He was more
into velocity of money andflipping land for cash. And I
thought, well, that's a job, andI don't want a job.
And so I thought, why do I ownor finance and create cash flow
(05:07):
on these pieces of land? And so,Trent, if you want, I can walk
you step by step through theexact model of how I do it.
Trent Werner (05:14):
I would love it.
Mark Podolsky (05:15):
Okay. So we'll use you as your case study as
case study. So where do youlive?
Trent Werner (05:19):
Portland, Oregon.
Mark Podolsky (05:21):
Portland, Oregon. Okay. I just yeah. I so I think
now I'm thinking of Portlandia.And is it, is it organic?
Never mind. Anyways, we'llassume that you own five acres
of raw land in Colorado and thatyou owe, let's say, $200 in back
taxes on that five acres. And soyou're essentially advertising
(05:42):
two important things to me.Number one, you have no
emotional attachment to the rawland. You're in Oregon.
The property is in Colorado. Andnumber two, you're stressed
financially in some weird way.Because we don't pay for things
like our property taxes. Wedon't value them in the same
way. As a result, the countytreasurer keeps sending you
notices saying, Trent, you don'tpay your property taxes.
(06:03):
You're gonna lose that propertyto a tax deed or a tax lien
investor. So all I'm gonna do islook at the comparable sales on
your five acre parcel for thelast twelve to eighteen months.
I'm gonna take the lowestcomparable sale. Let's say it's
$10,000, and then we divide byfour, and that's gonna get me
what Warren Buffett would call a300% margin of safety. So I'm
(06:25):
gonna send you an actual offerfor $2,500.
Now you accept it. Why? Becausefor you, $2,500 is better than
nothing. Mhmm. In reality, threeto 5% of people are gonna accept
my, quote, unquote, top dollaroffer.
But now that you've accepted it,I have to go through due
diligence or in-depth research.I have to confirm you still own
the property. I have to confirmback taxes are only $200. I
(06:48):
wanna make sure that there'sbeen no breaks in the chain of
title, no liens or encumbrances.I have this large property
checklist due diligencechecklist.
I outsourced to my team inJamaica. It costs about $11, and
they're connected to an Americantitle company. Now if I was
investing more than $2,500, Iwould just close traditionally
through a title company. I mean,let's say $5,000. I would close
(07:09):
through a a title company.
But this is only $2,500. I'lltake a little bit of title risk.
We'll assume everything checksout. I'm gonna send you a check
for $2,300. I'm gonna send atreasurer check for $200.
I own it free and clear. And nowI'm gonna sell it, and I'm gonna
make it cash flow like a rentalhome in thirty days or less. And
(07:29):
so, Trent, I have a built inbest buyer. I know you know who
it is.
Trent Werner (07:34):
I don't.
Mark Podolsky (07:35):
It's the neighbors. The neighbors. Oh,
yeah. So I'm gonna send outneighbor letters saying, hey.
Here's your opportunity.
Protect your privacy. Protectyour views. Know your neighbor.
So oftentimes, the neighborswill will buy. Now if they pass,
I'll go to my buyers list.
The buyers list passes, I go toa little website you may have
heard of. It's called Meta orFacebook buy sell groups in the
(07:56):
marketplace. And then I'll go tothe lands. Land.com, LandMoto
Com, LandandFarm Com,LandsofAmerica Com, LandCentury
Com, LandFlip Com, LandHub Com.These are platforms where people
buy and sell raw land.
But the secret is in thepricing. So all I'm gonna ask
for is a $2,500 down payment onyour five acre parcel. And then
(08:19):
I'm gonna get a car payment.Let's say $399 a month at 9%
interest for the next sixtymonths. So I get $2,500 down.
I get my capital out. Now I'mgetting $3.99 a month at 9%
interest for the next sixtymonths. Trent, no renters, no
rehabs, no renovations, norodents. And because I'm not
(08:40):
dealing with a tenant, I'mexempt from Dodd Frank, RESPA,
and the SAFE Act, all thisonerous real estate legislation.
So then it's a simple game.
Can I create enough land nodeswhere my passive income exceeds
my fixed expenses And now I'mworking because I want to, not
because I have
Trent Werner (08:56):
to? So, Mark, I have a bunch of questions after,
you know, going through theprocess with you. First question
is, how did you identify thispotential deal in Colorado? You
know, what drew you looking fora deal to Colorado?
Mark Podolsky (09:10):
So it's county research. So I'm gonna go on a
website like landmotor.com, andI'm gonna see where are the
other land sellers beingsuccessful. So imagine that you
and I are gonna go fishingtogether on the lake, and we see
10 boats on one side of thelake, and they're all catching
fish. And then we go to theother side of the lake, we see
there's three boats over there,and they're not catching any
(09:31):
fish. Where do you and I wannago?
Trent Werner (09:34):
With the 10 boats.
Mark Podolsky (09:35):
I mean, yeah. We wanna be the eleventh boat, even
though it seemscounterintuitive. We wanna go
where there's no competition.But, no, we wanna go where we
know definitively there's amarket. And so that's how we're
gonna start our county researchis we wanna know definitively
there's a market there and thatother land sellers are there
being successful.
Trent Werner (09:52):
And then from from there, after you identify a
market, then that's when youlook for people situation that
I'm in, in this, in thisexample. Correct?
Mark Podolsky (10:01):
Right. So I'll go to a website like datatree.com.
If you wanna save some money, goto datatree.com/lanky, and you
get a list. Right? And so fromthat list, I'm gonna basically
scrub that list and I'm gonnatake out all the residential
homes, you know, commercialproperties, industrial
properties, and I might do it byuse code, say v l for vacant
(10:23):
land.
So now I have all the vacantland in that county. Then I'm
gonna sort it by assessor'sparcel number or neighborhood.
And that from there, I'm gonnaprice it because I don't wanna
send somebody with 40 acres thesame offer as five acres. That
40 acre person is gonna send meback glitter in the mail. So I
wanna do that as well.
And then and then I'm gonnatrack my response rate. So I
(10:47):
know that if 3% or under 3% ofpeople respond to my offer,
well, I came in too low. And ifover 5% respond to my offer, I'm
a have to retrade a kind of camein too high. So I wanna know my
numbers and my metrics in thatsituation so I'd really get my
pricing down.
Trent Werner (11:07):
And when you are scrubbing the list, are you
looking for, I guess, a certainsize piece of land that you
target, or does the size notmatter in in your business at
this point?
Mark Podolsky (11:18):
Yeah. Size doesn't matter. And I'm not
saying that to be cheeky. Imean, it's just it's it's
literally because I wanna buy anasset at any asset, $25.30 cents
on the dollar. So it you know,the size is really not gonna be
relevant.
Now, certainly, there arecertain parcels that I I have,
(11:40):
an affinity for. Like, I think40 acre parcels do really well
for whatever reason, but I'm notgonna just target that.
Trent Werner (11:47):
Right. And then, I guess, do you do you dive into
the land the the zoning and thecodes and everything for these
parcels after you've identifiedthem, or do you even care about
that?
Mark Podolsky (11:59):
I'm not going to do due diligence until I get the
offer back, and then I'll do it.Because if I get a thousand, you
know, acre or 5,000, like athousand parcel list, that's a
lot of due diligence before Ispend any money.
Trent Werner (12:13):
Right. Okay. That makes sense. So I guess and in
this example, let's say I livein Oregon still. You're in
Arizona, but we're we're lookingat a piece of property in
Colorado.
How do you find a new market,let's say, in Delaware or Maine?
Or how are you identifyingmarkets that aren't even
remotely close to where you'reat or where this seller is at
(12:35):
for this deal?
Mark Podolsky (12:36):
Yeah. Again, I'm gonna go to a website like
landmoto.com. And then based onmy personal budget, I wanna know
I can buy five to seven parcelsthere. So then I just do some
math and just figure out, okay,this is I know this is a good
area because there's a markethere, and can I afford it? And
(12:58):
so that's how I'll go ahead andpick my area.
Trent Werner (13:01):
I guess sorry. Let me let me rephrase that. So I'm
in Oregon, and I wanna do landdeals. How do I choose a state
to begin with? Sorry.
Not not like a specific market,but does, you know, can I just
say I wanna I wanna go to thesefive states or are there areas
in
Mark Podolsky (13:16):
The United States that are better? Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, try to let's face it.Nobody wakes up and thinks
themselves, boy, I'd like someraw land today in Iowa unless
you live in Iowa.
Trent Werner (13:24):
Right.
Mark Podolsky (13:24):
So we wanna go to the sunshine states. So the
Southwest, New Mexico, Texas,Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, a
little bit of Northwest, Oregon,Washington, California, Florida,
parts of the Midwest that aretreed. That's gonna be our
biggest buyer pool. It's not tosay you can't do deals in those
other areas. It's just if we canget deals in those areas and
(13:48):
there's tons of them, I mean,Texas alone, you know, it's so
big.
You and I would run out of moneybefore we run a deal flow.
Trent Werner (13:56):
Right. Okay. And then in the example that you
used, you see it, you know,$3.99 a month, 9 percent
interest for 60. And and thathow is that based on what price
are you selling? Is that the$10,000 price that you've
identified to begin with?
Mark Podolsky (14:10):
Okay. So I'm gonna really look at a at a %
markup because of time value ofmoney. Okay. So that's really
how I'm gonna sort of price mywhen I'm selling it, what I'm
gonna look at. Now the 300%margin of safety is for a cash
liquidation.
So if I can't sell thatproperty, for whatever reason, I
(14:32):
know I can liquidate it at a 300margin of safety.
Trent Werner (14:36):
Got it. Okay. But I obviously, you'd rather sell
it on contract as option number.
Mark Podolsky (14:40):
Yeah. I'd really sell it on contract and and make
a much higher yield.
Trent Werner (14:44):
Do these deals, I guess, vary or differ when it
comes to, let's say, it's a ahundred acre parcel that could
be farmed on. Are you doinganything different in in that
situation versus a five acreparcel that's more of a rec rec
use?
Mark Podolsky (14:59):
Yeah. I mean, a hundred acre parcel, I'm not
gonna get. It. That's that'sthat can be farmed. Bill Gates
will buy it.
Jeff Bezos will buy it. Yeah. SoI'm just I'm just not gonna get
it. And I don't want it becausethe reason they're buying it is
they're they're clipping a an8%, you know, coupon on that
property. Right.
And so they're they're they'redoing a completely different
strategy. I want property that'sgonna be an hour to three hours
(15:22):
from the nearest city thatpeople could use recreationally,
and it's very inexpensive.
Trent Werner (15:27):
Right.
Mark Podolsky (15:28):
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uptownsyndication.com today tolearn more. What what would you
tell someone that's neverpurchased raw land before?
Aside from the process and howto go about it, are there any
red flags that they should beaware of when they are looking
at getting into land deals?
Mark Podolsky (16:41):
Yeah. I mean, I think the big red flag is the
mentality that I'm gonna do aland deal because one land deal
is not gonna move the needle foryou. But the question is, do you
wanna be in the land business?Because if you can do this one
time, you can do this a milliontimes. And so are you prepared
then to create a land businessand create a machine?
(17:04):
And so 90% of this business isautomated with software upfront,
inexpensive virtual assistants,and software on the back end.
And if you are prepared to dothat and you're entrepreneurial,
then absolutely test thehypothesis of what I'm saying.
Buy a piece of land, sell thatpiece of land on terms, but then
(17:27):
go ahead and continue doing it,and make sure you don't build
yourself a job. So I think thefirst red flag is don't build
yourself a job. I think thesecond red flag is once you
start doing it, don't let fearget in the way.
So what I oftentimes I'll seeour clients do is they'll buy
five to seven properties, andthen that's it. Like, I'm not
(17:50):
doing any more deal flow until Isell those five to seven
properties. Well, a mailing cantake six to eight weeks lag
time, and so they sell theproperty. Now they're a chicken
company with no chicken. And sothey lose out on on the momentum
because they stopped their dealflow.
The other red flag is people whojust don't want to really learn
(18:11):
the model. They'll they won't godeep into it, and and they'll
mess up with pricing, andthey'll overpay for whatever
reason. I don't see that toooften, but it can happen. And
the next red flag is gonna beenvironmental issues and due
diligence issues. So if you gooutside of the model and you
start looking at areas like NewJersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, you
(18:33):
could end up buying a Superfundsite.
It could cost millions ofdollars that you'd be liable for
cleanup. You could go to a sitelike epa.gov to mitigate that
risk and make sure you're notbuying a Superfund site, but
that could be a risk as well.But really the biggest risk I
see people doing is the fearbased risk of stopping deal
flow.
Trent Werner (18:53):
And I'm assuming some of that fear comes from,
you know, maybe they can't sellthe deal in thirty days or less
using the the strategies thatyou mentioned earlier. So do
they just panic sell it and andand get rid of it? Or where
where do they go from there? Ifit's not, you know, if it's
taking longer than thirty days.
Mark Podolsky (19:11):
Yeah. If it takes longer than thirty days, you
know, hopefully, they haveconfidence that it'll sell Mhmm.
Because they all sell. And it'sjust, you know, having that that
resilience to get better at yourmarketing and learn it. So I
don't see that happen too often.
(19:32):
It it's more that they're losingtime in in their business
because of that fear. I don't Idon't often see, you know, after
thirty days, people just wannaliquidate. I think they they
know instinctively they boughtat the right price, and there
there's money to be made. Andthey just need to be more
patient in in learning themarketing aspect of it and the
(19:53):
selling aspect of it as well.
Trent Werner (19:55):
I was gonna say, if someone's buying, you know,
pennies on the dollar and theydo have to sell, the worst thing
that happens is they make moneynow instead of over the next
sixty months. Right?
Mark Podolsky (20:04):
Yeah. So instead of yeah. Exactly. I mean, yeah,
they can flip it for cash andand make, you know, at least say
a %. They can wholesale it.
No no one's gonna complain.They're making their money on
the buy one way or the other.
Trent Werner (20:18):
What do you think a realistic target for, you
know, maybe someone that's notnot familiar with the real
estate industry, they they cometalk with you. And, you know,
let's just say that they're, youknow, a teacher and a teacher
wants to get into this on theside, you know, to replace our
income. What do you think arealistic goal in terms of
number of deals in the firsttwelve months is? I know you had
(20:40):
a pretty good first twelvemonths when you got started. But
nowadays, what do you think arealistic goal is?
Mark Podolsky (20:45):
I mean, I it's a really hard question to answer
because there's so many factorsthat go into it. You know, let's
take that teacher, for example.Well, how how long are they
gonna work on this on the sidedoing it? Do they have two hours
a day? Do they have an hour aday?
(21:05):
How much capital are theystarting with? Do they have
$5,000 Do they have $50,000What's their confidence level in
the aspect of of the learningcurve? Are they gonna have fear,
or are they gonna have faith,that the process works and that
they can continue doing it? Willthey be able to invest money in
(21:28):
team even during times when theyhaven't sold property because
they know again that they'rebuilding a business? So there's
so many different things thatare gonna gonna go on in that
learning curve.
But I would say on average, ifthey give themselves twelve to
eighteen months of learningcurve, that I would expect
(21:51):
somebody who invests, say, ahundred thousand dollars in the
land to have $10,000 a month inpassive income. Now if they have
$50,000 in investment land,that'd be $5,000 a month in
passive income in twelve toeighteen months. If they have
$20,000 in investment land,that'd be $2,000 a month in
passive income in twelve toeighteen months. How how that
(22:14):
equates, you know, is gonna bedifferent for everybody. But I
really think that if you look atit from a business point of
view, you wanna give yourself arunway.
So if I were starting a newbusiness, I would say, look, I'm
gonna make this thing work, andI'm gonna give myself thirty six
months. And if after thirty sixmonths it's not profitable and I
absolutely hate it, then I'llquit. And if you have that kind
(22:36):
of mentality, you can be like ahockey player in business.
Right? Because a hockey playergets their teeth knocked out,
and they still get up, and theycan see playing hockey because
they love hockey that much.
Yeah. That's kind of how youhave to really be, I think, in
in any business, not just theland business, but just business
in general.
Trent Werner (22:55):
Resilient. Absolutely.
Mark Podolsky (22:56):
Resilient. You have to have grit. You're going
to get knocked down and be like,okay, I believe this. Like, you
know, thirty six months to havetotal freedom is not that long.
Trent Werner (23:08):
Yeah. Yeah. So another question I have for you
is, you know, what happens ifyou sell it on contract and
someone pays it off in year two?Does that does that hurt your
feelings? Are you excited aboutthat?
Mark Podolsky (23:20):
I don't get excited about it, but it doesn't
hurt my feelings either. Yeah.Yeah. It's it's not I don't want
the cash. I want the cash flow.
I I you know, cash is fine. But,again, I want cash flow because
that's the antidote to financialinsecurity. I wanna be able to
know I don't have to I think,you know, next month, I don't
(23:42):
have to chase a deal if I don'twant to. I can get sick. No
problem.
I can travel the world. Noproblem. And the machine's gonna
continue just collecting moneyevery single day.
Trent Werner (23:52):
And when it comes to the machine, how does one go
about managing, you know, let'ssay they have 10 deals that are
are that are that they're doing,and all of a sudden they sell
all on terms. You know, how doeshow does one manage all that?
Because that for someone that'sreally new to real estate,
managing 10 different deals cancan seem daunting.
Mark Podolsky (24:11):
Yeah. So there's two software programs they would
want. The first one islgpass.com, and the second one
is called geekpay.io. So LGpass, consider it like a a CRM
that helps you manage your 10properties, taking you from
acquisition all the way tocontract. And then GeekPay.io is
a set and forget it notecollection system so that you
(24:34):
set it up once.
If your borrower has a question,they can log in. They can see
their current balance. They canmake a prepayment. And so,
ultimately, the idea being thatwe can always make more money
and we can't get more time. Soanything that's gonna save me
time, I'm gonna invest in.
Trent Werner (24:51):
Absolutely. And going back to my my prepayment
question, when you'renegotiating these deals, are
there prepayment penaltiesassociated with them or no?
Mark Podolsky (25:00):
I don't have prepayment penalties.
Trent Werner (25:03):
But that I mean, in theory, that's an option.
Right? Like, you can do that ifyou want.
Mark Podolsky (25:06):
You could do it if you want. Sure.
Trent Werner (25:08):
But then it goes back to the fact of, okay, well,
the worst thing that couldhappen if they prepaid is you
still make money, just not asmuch interest on the back.
Mark Podolsky (25:16):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Trent Werner (25:19):
So, Mark, what what are things that you know,
what's the first step to getinto this? They've heard the
process. They understand, youknow, how to go about it. But
what's step one if someone wantsto get in and learn from you?
Mark Podolsky (25:30):
So if they wanna learn, I think they should go to
the landgeek.com and just startthere and and really start
diving in. And, you know, maybeyou get a free course or maybe
you read the book and just startgetting educated. And then take
some some make some tiny betsand see if the the model
resonates with you.
Trent Werner (25:52):
Speaking of of timeliness, the real estate
market right now is kinda weird.The economy is kinda weird.
There's there's, some somestress in the economy right now
for a lot of different people.Do you think timing right now
has anything to do with, or orwould be a good time to get
involved, or, you know, are youjust always being a buyer and
(26:14):
and that's what you're gonnarespond with?
Mark Podolsky (26:17):
I'm always a buyer. So if you, if you look at
the cycle in real estate, thatat times that it's going to be
easy to buy and and it's goingto be easy to sell, let's call
it equilibrium. There'll beother times in the economy, when
the economy gets really hot,it'll be, harder to buy, and
(26:38):
it'll be easy to sell. And thenlet's say we have a recession.
Then it's gonna be really easyto buy.
Everything's on sale, but itmight be harder to sell. But at
any one point in that in thatcycle, you're still in a good
situation, especially if youknow where you are at in the
cycle. So even in 02/2008, '2thousand '9, '2 thousand '10, I
(27:00):
was still profitable, as a landbusiness. It it it really it
really is going to be one ofthose things where you just
adapt to the cycle. And becausewe're not using debt, we're not
that's not big money, we havethis asset that, you know,
there's nothing to maintain,nothing to protect, nothing
can't be destroyed.
(27:21):
COVID, pandemics, hurricanes.You're not gonna get knocked out
of the cave in in this in thisbusiness.
Trent Werner (27:28):
I love I love how you said because you're not
leveraging, you know, you're notusing debt to make these
purchases. Your exposure ispretty much what you have into
the property. And then I guessproperty taxes, you know,
annually.
Mark Podolsky (27:42):
But exactly. And the property taxes are pretty
minor.
Trent Werner (27:46):
So this seems to be
Mark Podolsky (27:47):
sell that property in twelve months or
less. You know, your borrowerpays the property taxes.
Trent Werner (27:53):
So it seems like a pretty low risk, business to
start yet at the beginning.Right? I mean, depending on what
your budget is and all thatstuff.
Mark Podolsky (28:03):
I personally think it's the best passive
income model. If you could tellme something better, I'd love to
know what it is. Actually,there's one thing that's better.
Life insurance is better.Because life insurance is just
an idea, so you don't have to goout and buy anything.
But life insurance and land,it's a one time sale, and then
you get recurring income, andyou don't have to deal with any
(28:26):
real headaches when you whenyou're doing it. So besides life
insurance, which, again, lifeinsurance has its own issues
with, you know, beingcompetitive and you go to a
party, nobody wants to talk toyou, that type of issue. But I
would say land is the bestpassive income model.
Trent Werner (28:45):
Yeah. I am I'm trying to rack my brain, and I I
don't think that there are anyother examples that would would
come close to what we're talkingabout today. Yeah. Especially
for passive. You know, even evenbuying a a single family rental,
you know, some people will saythat's passive, but in reality,
it's it's not passive at all.
Mark Podolsky (29:03):
No. And, you know, when I say passive, it's
not like you don't have to doanything. Right? But once you've
done the work, then it can bevery passive. Once you've set up
the machine, once you have yoursoftware, your virtual
assistants, and your software onthe back end, you're just really
just feeding a capital at thatpoint and managing.
And if you don't wanna manage,you could hire someone to manage
(29:24):
it, like an acquisition manager.But Mhmm. In the beginning, it's
it's not passive. So if you'relistening to this, I'm making it
sound if I think I'm making itsound easy, it's not easy. It's
a simple model.
But, honestly, nothing worthdoing is easy. There's just no
get rich quick that has any typeof longevity to it. Not even not
(29:46):
even crypto.
Trent Werner (29:49):
That was a pretty timely comment too, considering
Bitcoin is testing all timehighs every single day now.
Mark Podolsky (29:55):
Yeah. Ex exactly. Exactly.
Trent Werner (29:58):
Mark, is there anything that we didn't discuss
today or maybe the listenerswould like to hear from you
before we wrap things up?
Mark Podolsky (30:06):
Yeah. I mean, I'm a listener. I'm skeptical
Because here's a guy. If it's sogreat, why are you teaching it?
And I think it's a fairquestion.
And so in 02/2010, I was onvacation, and this guy, Tory,
called me. And he's on mywebsite, and he's like, hey. I'm
(30:26):
I'm really interested inlearning to do what you what you
do. And I said, look. I I don'tteach this.
And he's like, what if I pay youthis? Like, oh, okay. So I'm
like, let me get back to you. SoI go to my wife. I'm like, hey.
This guy wants me to teach himthe land business. And she's
like, why would you do that?You're gonna create your own
competition. So I said, goodpoint. So I'm like, let's put on
(30:50):
the investment banking app, andlet's just see how big this
market is.
And it turns out there'sbillions of acres of raw land,
and you literally can't think ofa more boring real estate niche.
Like, you're not gonna go onHGTV or the DIY network unless
you flip this land. The beforepictures were all in. The after
pictures were all in. And sowhat I discovered was that as I
(31:12):
taught Tory how to do thisbusiness, it was extremely
gratifying because it changedhis life.
His first deal, he made$300,000. And so it was, like,
for him, life changing money.And I've got to a point where I
realized that the land businessfor me helps me and my family,
(31:32):
but teaching it is absolutelybeen my vocation in the sense
that there's nothing moregratifying than literally
changing the trajectory ofsomebody's life and being that
pebble in the pond. And thatimpact then spreads. It also
affects all their relationships,And, and so I I absolutely love
(31:57):
that that aspect of of thebusiness and and that part of
the land geek is having thatprivilege and and honor to
possibly affect that type ofchange.
Trent Werner (32:09):
And I can tell that you are you mean that.
You're very genuine when youwhen you say that, and you're
genuine in things that I've seenonline and social media of you
genuinely get excited to teachthis to other people. And I
think that's you know, that'sone of the coolest things about
you. And for anyone that doeswant to take that step and go
actually get into it, I thinkMark is probably the best at
(32:33):
teaching it in terms of thisland land investment business.
And like you said, it may not besexy, but, you know, plumbers
make good money and they dealwith dirty jobs and, you know,
they don't they don't have allthe shiny, shiny stuff when it
comes to what they're dealingwith.
But this is a niche in realestate that I don't think is is
talked about enough. Everyonewants to talk about syndicating
(32:54):
apartment buildings and and thatstuff, which is what which is
what we do. But this is this isa niche that I think is great
for people that want to buildtheir own real estate business
and and start from ground zero.
Mark Podolsky (33:07):
No. A %. And there's nothing wrong with
syndicating apartment buildings.And you could even look at the
land business as the gatewaydrug to doing those bigger,
sexier deals so that peopleactually talk to you at the
party.
Trent Werner (33:22):
Well, Mark, thank you so much for for sharing
about yourself and The LandGeek. We do have a link so
people can can go check out thebook, and I will definitely make
sure The Land Geek's website islinked in the in the show notes.
Thank you so much.
Mark Podolsky (33:35):
Thanks, Trent. Appreciate you.
Intro speaker (33:37):
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Trent Werner (00:40):
Welcome back to another episode of the Deal Deep
Dive segment on the WestsideInvestors Network podcast. I'm
your host, Trent Werner. In thissegment, our featured guests
will share their unique storieson a specific deal they've
invested in. We will dive deepinto finding the deal, financing
the deal, writing an offer, andthe due diligence. Do us a solid
and smash that subscribe button,leave us a rating, and share
(01:03):
this episode.
And now let's dive deep. Welcomeback to the Westside Investors
Network podcast. I'm your host,Trem Werner. On today's episode,
we're joined by Mark Podolsky ofthe Land Geek. Mark is known as
the Land Geek because he's beeninvesting and selling land since
February.
He was able to replace his fulltime job back in the day after
(01:25):
just his first twelve monthsdoing this, and he is going to
share the steps and process ofwhich it takes to become a land
investor, not only land flipper,but creating cash flow monthly
from finding deals that you'rebuying for pennies on the
dollar. Now let's welcome MarkPodolsky. Alright. The Westside
(01:45):
Investors Network podcast isback with the land geek himself,
Mark Podolsky. Thanks forjoining us.
Mark Podolsky (01:51):
Trent Werner, thanks so much for having me.
Trent Werner (01:55):
I told Mark this before we started recording. I
am kind of a fanboy, so I'msuper excited for, our
conversation today. Mark has agreat book, that we actually
have a link that our listenerscan go check it out and get it.
So thank you, Mark, for that.Mark, for people that don't know
who you are, you wanna tell usabout Mark Podolsky and the land
geek himself?
Mark Podolsky (02:16):
Yeah. So if we rewind the tape to 2,000, I was
a miserable, micromanaged, fortyfive minute commute to work and
back investment bankerspecializing in mergers and
acquisitions with private equitygroups. And Trent, it got so bad
for me. I wouldn't get theSunday blues, anticipating
(02:37):
Monday coming around. I get theFriday blues anticipating the
weekend going by really fast andhaving to be back at work on
Monday.
So my firm hires this guy, andhe's telling me that as a side
hustle, he's buying raw land,pennies on the dollar at tax
deed auctions. He's flippingthem online, and he's making a
300% return on his money. InTrent, I'm looking at companies
(02:57):
all day long. And a greatcompany, great, has 15% EBITDA
margins or free cash flow.Average company is 10%, and I'm
looking at companies all daylong less than 10%.
So I'm from Missouri, the showme state, and I don't believe
them. So I've got $3 saved upfor car repairs. I go to New
Mexico with them. I do exactlywhat he tells me to do. I buy 10
(03:19):
half acre parcels in the averageprice of $300 each.
I flip them online, and they allsell for an average price of
$1,200 each. It worked 300%. SoI took all that money, went to
another auction where I live,and this is in Arizona. And
there's, you know, it's 2,000.There's no one in the room.
And I'm buying up lots ofacreage for nothing. And I sell
all that land. I made over$90,000 cash. So I go to my wife
(03:41):
and she's pregnant. I said,honey, I'm gonna quit my job and
become a full time landinvestor.
And she said, absolutely not. SoI said, okay. Okay. Okay. So it
took eighteen months for theland investing income to exceed
the investment banking income,and then I quit.
I've been doing it full timeever since. I've done over 6,500
(04:02):
land deals now and counting andand still absolutely love it.
Trent Werner (04:07):
So for that first deal, you said it was 10 half
acre parcels for $300 a piece?Yeah. So that's just not
possible anymore. Right?
Mark Podolsky (04:16):
No. You can still get properties cheap.
Trent Werner (04:20):
Were you so you said you were in Arizona at the
time, but this one was in NewMexico. Is that right?
Mark Podolsky (04:24):
Yeah. That was in New Mexico. I'm I live in
Scottsdale, Arizona.
Trent Werner (04:28):
Okay.
Mark Podolsky (04:28):
Yeah. And But that that auction was, like,
Southern Arizona.
Trent Werner (04:31):
Okay. Okay.
Mark Podolsky (04:32):
Yeah.
Trent Werner (04:33):
So I know you had a coworker colleague that was
doing this on the side thatintroduced you to it. Was there
anything that or any researchthat you did by yourself after,
you know, he explained what hewas doing?
Mark Podolsky (04:47):
Well, yeah. I mean, then I came up with my own
way of doing it. So we sort ofcame up together. He was more
into velocity of money andflipping land for cash. And I
thought, well, that's a job, andI don't want a job.
And so I thought, why do I ownor finance and create cash flow
(05:07):
on these pieces of land? And so,Trent, if you want, I can walk
you step by step through theexact model of how I do it.
Trent Werner (05:14):
I would love it.
Mark Podolsky (05:15):
Okay. So we'll use you as your case study as
case study. So where do youlive?
Trent Werner (05:19):
Portland, Oregon.
Mark Podolsky (05:21):
Portland, Oregon. Okay. I just yeah. I so I think
now I'm thinking of Portlandia.And is it, is it organic?
Never mind. Anyways, we'llassume that you own five acres
of raw land in Colorado and thatyou owe, let's say, $200 in back
taxes on that five acres. And soyou're essentially advertising
(05:42):
two important things to me.Number one, you have no
emotional attachment to the rawland. You're in Oregon.
The property is in Colorado. Andnumber two, you're stressed
financially in some weird way.Because we don't pay for things
like our property taxes. Wedon't value them in the same
way. As a result, the countytreasurer keeps sending you
notices saying, Trent, you don'tpay your property taxes.
(06:03):
You're gonna lose that propertyto a tax deed or a tax lien
investor. So all I'm gonna do islook at the comparable sales on
your five acre parcel for thelast twelve to eighteen months.
I'm gonna take the lowestcomparable sale. Let's say it's
$10,000, and then we divide byfour, and that's gonna get me
what Warren Buffett would call a300% margin of safety. So I'm
(06:25):
gonna send you an actual offerfor $2,500.
Now you accept it. Why? Becausefor you, $2,500 is better than
nothing. Mhmm. In reality, threeto 5% of people are gonna accept
my, quote, unquote, top dollaroffer.
But now that you've accepted it,I have to go through due
diligence or in-depth research.I have to confirm you still own
the property. I have to confirmback taxes are only $200. I
(06:48):
wanna make sure that there'sbeen no breaks in the chain of
title, no liens or encumbrances.I have this large property
checklist due diligencechecklist.
I outsourced to my team inJamaica. It costs about $11, and
they're connected to an Americantitle company. Now if I was
investing more than $2,500, Iwould just close traditionally
through a title company. I mean,let's say $5,000. I would close
(07:09):
through a a title company.
But this is only $2,500. I'lltake a little bit of title risk.
We'll assume everything checksout. I'm gonna send you a check
for $2,300. I'm gonna send atreasurer check for $200.
I own it free and clear. And nowI'm gonna sell it, and I'm gonna
make it cash flow like a rentalhome in thirty days or less. And
(07:29):
so, Trent, I have a built inbest buyer. I know you know who
it is.
Trent Werner (07:34):
I don't.
Mark Podolsky (07:35):
It's the neighbors. The neighbors. Oh,
yeah. So I'm gonna send outneighbor letters saying, hey.
Here's your opportunity.
Protect your privacy. Protectyour views. Know your neighbor.
So oftentimes, the neighborswill will buy. Now if they pass,
I'll go to my buyers list.
The buyers list passes, I go toa little website you may have
heard of. It's called Meta orFacebook buy sell groups in the
(07:56):
marketplace. And then I'll go tothe lands. Land.com, LandMoto
Com, LandandFarm Com,LandsofAmerica Com, LandCentury
Com, LandFlip Com, LandHub Com.These are platforms where people
buy and sell raw land.
But the secret is in thepricing. So all I'm gonna ask
for is a $2,500 down payment onyour five acre parcel. And then
(08:19):
I'm gonna get a car payment.Let's say $399 a month at 9%
interest for the next sixtymonths. So I get $2,500 down.
I get my capital out. Now I'mgetting $3.99 a month at 9%
interest for the next sixtymonths. Trent, no renters, no
rehabs, no renovations, norodents. And because I'm not
(08:40):
dealing with a tenant, I'mexempt from Dodd Frank, RESPA,
and the SAFE Act, all thisonerous real estate legislation.
So then it's a simple game.
Can I create enough land nodeswhere my passive income exceeds
my fixed expenses And now I'mworking because I want to, not
because I have
Trent Werner (08:56):
to? So, Mark, I have a bunch of questions after,
you know, going through theprocess with you. First question
is, how did you identify thispotential deal in Colorado? You
know, what drew you looking fora deal to Colorado?
Mark Podolsky (09:10):
So it's county research. So I'm gonna go on a
website like landmotor.com, andI'm gonna see where are the
other land sellers beingsuccessful. So imagine that you
and I are gonna go fishingtogether on the lake, and we see
10 boats on one side of thelake, and they're all catching
fish. And then we go to theother side of the lake, we see
there's three boats over there,and they're not catching any
(09:31):
fish. Where do you and I wannago?
Trent Werner (09:34):
With the 10 boats.
Mark Podolsky (09:35):
I mean, yeah. We wanna be the eleventh boat, even
though it seemscounterintuitive. We wanna go
where there's no competition.But, no, we wanna go where we
know definitively there's amarket. And so that's how we're
gonna start our county researchis we wanna know definitively
there's a market there and thatother land sellers are there
being successful.
Trent Werner (09:52):
And then from from there, after you identify a
market, then that's when youlook for people situation that
I'm in, in this, in thisexample. Correct?
Mark Podolsky (10:01):
Right. So I'll go to a website like datatree.com.
If you wanna save some money, goto datatree.com/lanky, and you
get a list. Right? And so fromthat list, I'm gonna basically
scrub that list and I'm gonnatake out all the residential
homes, you know, commercialproperties, industrial
properties, and I might do it byuse code, say v l for vacant
(10:23):
land.
So now I have all the vacantland in that county. Then I'm
gonna sort it by assessor'sparcel number or neighborhood.
And that from there, I'm gonnaprice it because I don't wanna
send somebody with 40 acres thesame offer as five acres. That
40 acre person is gonna send meback glitter in the mail. So I
wanna do that as well.
And then and then I'm gonnatrack my response rate. So I
(10:47):
know that if 3% or under 3% ofpeople respond to my offer,
well, I came in too low. And ifover 5% respond to my offer, I'm
a have to retrade a kind of camein too high. So I wanna know my
numbers and my metrics in thatsituation so I'd really get my
pricing down.
Trent Werner (11:07):
And when you are scrubbing the list, are you
looking for, I guess, a certainsize piece of land that you
target, or does the size notmatter in in your business at
this point?
Mark Podolsky (11:18):
Yeah. Size doesn't matter. And I'm not
saying that to be cheeky. Imean, it's just it's it's
literally because I wanna buy anasset at any asset, $25.30 cents
on the dollar. So it you know,the size is really not gonna be
relevant.
Now, certainly, there arecertain parcels that I I have,
(11:40):
an affinity for. Like, I think40 acre parcels do really well
for whatever reason, but I'm notgonna just target that.
Trent Werner (11:47):
Right. And then, I guess, do you do you dive into
the land the the zoning and thecodes and everything for these
parcels after you've identifiedthem, or do you even care about
that?
Mark Podolsky (11:59):
I'm not going to do due diligence until I get the
offer back, and then I'll do it.Because if I get a thousand, you
know, acre or 5,000, like athousand parcel list, that's a
lot of due diligence before Ispend any money.
Trent Werner (12:13):
Right. Okay. That makes sense. So I guess and in
this example, let's say I livein Oregon still. You're in
Arizona, but we're we're lookingat a piece of property in
Colorado.
How do you find a new market,let's say, in Delaware or Maine?
Or how are you identifyingmarkets that aren't even
remotely close to where you'reat or where this seller is at
(12:35):
for this deal?
Mark Podolsky (12:36):
Yeah. Again, I'm gonna go to a website like
landmoto.com. And then based onmy personal budget, I wanna know
I can buy five to seven parcelsthere. So then I just do some
math and just figure out, okay,this is I know this is a good
area because there's a markethere, and can I afford it? And
(12:58):
so that's how I'll go ahead andpick my area.
Trent Werner (13:01):
I guess sorry. Let me let me rephrase that. So I'm
in Oregon, and I wanna do landdeals. How do I choose a state
to begin with? Sorry.
Not not like a specific market,but does, you know, can I just
say I wanna I wanna go to thesefive states or are there areas
in
Mark Podolsky (13:16):
The United States that are better? Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, try to let's face it.Nobody wakes up and thinks
themselves, boy, I'd like someraw land today in Iowa unless
you live in Iowa.
Trent Werner (13:24):
Right.
Mark Podolsky (13:24):
So we wanna go to the sunshine states. So the
Southwest, New Mexico, Texas,Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, a
little bit of Northwest, Oregon,Washington, California, Florida,
parts of the Midwest that aretreed. That's gonna be our
biggest buyer pool. It's not tosay you can't do deals in those
other areas. It's just if we canget deals in those areas and
(13:48):
there's tons of them, I mean,Texas alone, you know, it's so
big.
You and I would run out of moneybefore we run a deal flow.
Trent Werner (13:56):
Right. Okay. And then in the example that you
used, you see it, you know,$3.99 a month, 9 percent
interest for 60. And and thathow is that based on what price
are you selling? Is that the$10,000 price that you've
identified to begin with?
Mark Podolsky (14:10):
Okay. So I'm gonna really look at a at a %
markup because of time value ofmoney. Okay. So that's really
how I'm gonna sort of price mywhen I'm selling it, what I'm
gonna look at. Now the 300%margin of safety is for a cash
liquidation.
So if I can't sell thatproperty, for whatever reason, I
(14:32):
know I can liquidate it at a 300margin of safety.
Trent Werner (14:36):
Got it. Okay. But I obviously, you'd rather sell
it on contract as option number.
Mark Podolsky (14:40):
Yeah. I'd really sell it on contract and and make
a much higher yield.
Trent Werner (14:44):
Do these deals, I guess, vary or differ when it
comes to, let's say, it's a ahundred acre parcel that could
be farmed on. Are you doinganything different in in that
situation versus a five acreparcel that's more of a rec rec
use?
Mark Podolsky (14:59):
Yeah. I mean, a hundred acre parcel, I'm not
gonna get. It. That's that'sthat can be farmed. Bill Gates
will buy it.
Jeff Bezos will buy it. Yeah. SoI'm just I'm just not gonna get
it. And I don't want it becausethe reason they're buying it is
they're they're clipping a an8%, you know, coupon on that
property. Right.
And so they're they're they'redoing a completely different
strategy. I want property that'sgonna be an hour to three hours
(15:22):
from the nearest city thatpeople could use recreationally,
and it's very inexpensive.
Trent Werner (15:27):
Right.
Mark Podolsky (15:28):
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Trent Werner (16:01):
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uptownsyndication.com today tolearn more. What what would you
tell someone that's neverpurchased raw land before?
Aside from the process and howto go about it, are there any
red flags that they should beaware of when they are looking
at getting into land deals?
Mark Podolsky (16:41):
Yeah. I mean, I think the big red flag is the
mentality that I'm gonna do aland deal because one land deal
is not gonna move the needle foryou. But the question is, do you
wanna be in the land business?Because if you can do this one
time, you can do this a milliontimes. And so are you prepared
then to create a land businessand create a machine?
(17:04):
And so 90% of this business isautomated with software upfront,
inexpensive virtual assistants,and software on the back end.
And if you are prepared to dothat and you're entrepreneurial,
then absolutely test thehypothesis of what I'm saying.
Buy a piece of land, sell thatpiece of land on terms, but then
(17:27):
go ahead and continue doing it,and make sure you don't build
yourself a job. So I think thefirst red flag is don't build
yourself a job. I think thesecond red flag is once you
start doing it, don't let fearget in the way.
So what I oftentimes I'll seeour clients do is they'll buy
five to seven properties, andthen that's it. Like, I'm not
(17:50):
doing any more deal flow until Isell those five to seven
properties. Well, a mailing cantake six to eight weeks lag
time, and so they sell theproperty. Now they're a chicken
company with no chicken. And sothey lose out on on the momentum
because they stopped their dealflow.
The other red flag is people whojust don't want to really learn
(18:11):
the model. They'll they won't godeep into it, and and they'll
mess up with pricing, andthey'll overpay for whatever
reason. I don't see that toooften, but it can happen. And
the next red flag is gonna beenvironmental issues and due
diligence issues. So if you gooutside of the model and you
start looking at areas like NewJersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, you
(18:33):
could end up buying a Superfundsite.
It could cost millions ofdollars that you'd be liable for
cleanup. You could go to a sitelike epa.gov to mitigate that
risk and make sure you're notbuying a Superfund site, but
that could be a risk as well.But really the biggest risk I
see people doing is the fearbased risk of stopping deal
flow.
Trent Werner (18:53):
And I'm assuming some of that fear comes from,
you know, maybe they can't sellthe deal in thirty days or less
using the the strategies thatyou mentioned earlier. So do
they just panic sell it and andand get rid of it? Or where
where do they go from there? Ifit's not, you know, if it's
taking longer than thirty days.
Mark Podolsky (19:11):
Yeah. If it takes longer than thirty days, you
know, hopefully, they haveconfidence that it'll sell Mhmm.
Because they all sell. And it'sjust, you know, having that that
resilience to get better at yourmarketing and learn it. So I
don't see that happen too often.
(19:32):
It it's more that they're losingtime in in their business
because of that fear. I don't Idon't often see, you know, after
thirty days, people just wannaliquidate. I think they they
know instinctively they boughtat the right price, and there
there's money to be made. Andthey just need to be more
patient in in learning themarketing aspect of it and the
(19:53):
selling aspect of it as well.
Trent Werner (19:55):
I was gonna say, if someone's buying, you know,
pennies on the dollar and theydo have to sell, the worst thing
that happens is they make moneynow instead of over the next
sixty months. Right?
Mark Podolsky (20:04):
Yeah. So instead of yeah. Exactly. I mean, yeah,
they can flip it for cash andand make, you know, at least say
a %. They can wholesale it.
No no one's gonna complain.They're making their money on
the buy one way or the other.
Trent Werner (20:18):
What do you think a realistic target for, you
know, maybe someone that's notnot familiar with the real
estate industry, they they cometalk with you. And, you know,
let's just say that they're, youknow, a teacher and a teacher
wants to get into this on theside, you know, to replace our
income. What do you think arealistic goal in terms of
number of deals in the firsttwelve months is? I know you had
(20:40):
a pretty good first twelvemonths when you got started. But
nowadays, what do you think arealistic goal is?
Mark Podolsky (20:45):
I mean, I it's a really hard question to answer
because there's so many factorsthat go into it. You know, let's
take that teacher, for example.Well, how how long are they
gonna work on this on the sidedoing it? Do they have two hours
a day? Do they have an hour aday?
(21:05):
How much capital are theystarting with? Do they have
$5,000 Do they have $50,000What's their confidence level in
the aspect of of the learningcurve? Are they gonna have fear,
or are they gonna have faith,that the process works and that
they can continue doing it? Willthey be able to invest money in
(21:28):
team even during times when theyhaven't sold property because
they know again that they'rebuilding a business? So there's
so many different things thatare gonna gonna go on in that
learning curve.
But I would say on average, ifthey give themselves twelve to
eighteen months of learningcurve, that I would expect
(21:51):
somebody who invests, say, ahundred thousand dollars in the
land to have $10,000 a month inpassive income. Now if they have
$50,000 in investment land,that'd be $5,000 a month in
passive income in twelve toeighteen months. If they have
$20,000 in investment land,that'd be $2,000 a month in
passive income in twelve toeighteen months. How how that
(22:14):
equates, you know, is gonna bedifferent for everybody. But I
really think that if you look atit from a business point of
view, you wanna give yourself arunway.
So if I were starting a newbusiness, I would say, look, I'm
gonna make this thing work, andI'm gonna give myself thirty six
months. And if after thirty sixmonths it's not profitable and I
absolutely hate it, then I'llquit. And if you have that kind
(22:36):
of mentality, you can be like ahockey player in business.
Right? Because a hockey playergets their teeth knocked out,
and they still get up, and theycan see playing hockey because
they love hockey that much.
Yeah. That's kind of how youhave to really be, I think, in
in any business, not just theland business, but just business
in general.
Trent Werner (22:55):
Resilient. Absolutely.
Mark Podolsky (22:56):
Resilient. You have to have grit. You're going
to get knocked down and be like,okay, I believe this. Like, you
know, thirty six months to havetotal freedom is not that long.
Trent Werner (23:08):
Yeah. Yeah. So another question I have for you
is, you know, what happens ifyou sell it on contract and
someone pays it off in year two?Does that does that hurt your
feelings? Are you excited aboutthat?
Mark Podolsky (23:20):
I don't get excited about it, but it doesn't
hurt my feelings either. Yeah.Yeah. It's it's not I don't want
the cash. I want the cash flow.
I I you know, cash is fine. But,again, I want cash flow because
that's the antidote to financialinsecurity. I wanna be able to
know I don't have to I think,you know, next month, I don't
(23:42):
have to chase a deal if I don'twant to. I can get sick. No
problem.
I can travel the world. Noproblem. And the machine's gonna
continue just collecting moneyevery single day.
Trent Werner (23:52):
And when it comes to the machine, how does one go
about managing, you know, let'ssay they have 10 deals that are
are that are that they're doing,and all of a sudden they sell
all on terms. You know, how doeshow does one manage all that?
Because that for someone that'sreally new to real estate,
managing 10 different deals cancan seem daunting.
Mark Podolsky (24:11):
Yeah. So there's two software programs they would
want. The first one islgpass.com, and the second one
is called geekpay.io. So LGpass, consider it like a a CRM
that helps you manage your 10properties, taking you from
acquisition all the way tocontract. And then GeekPay.io is
a set and forget it notecollection system so that you
(24:34):
set it up once.
If your borrower has a question,they can log in. They can see
their current balance. They canmake a prepayment. And so,
ultimately, the idea being thatwe can always make more money
and we can't get more time. Soanything that's gonna save me
time, I'm gonna invest in.
Trent Werner (24:51):
Absolutely. And going back to my my prepayment
question, when you'renegotiating these deals, are
there prepayment penaltiesassociated with them or no?
Mark Podolsky (25:00):
I don't have prepayment penalties.
Trent Werner (25:03):
But that I mean, in theory, that's an option.
Right? Like, you can do that ifyou want.
Mark Podolsky (25:06):
You could do it if you want. Sure.
Trent Werner (25:08):
But then it goes back to the fact of, okay, well,
the worst thing that couldhappen if they prepaid is you
still make money, just not asmuch interest on the back.
Mark Podolsky (25:16):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Trent Werner (25:19):
So, Mark, what what are things that you know,
what's the first step to getinto this? They've heard the
process. They understand, youknow, how to go about it. But
what's step one if someone wantsto get in and learn from you?
Mark Podolsky (25:30):
So if they wanna learn, I think they should go to
the landgeek.com and just startthere and and really start
diving in. And, you know, maybeyou get a free course or maybe
you read the book and just startgetting educated. And then take
some some make some tiny betsand see if the the model
resonates with you.
Trent Werner (25:52):
Speaking of of timeliness, the real estate
market right now is kinda weird.The economy is kinda weird.
There's there's, some somestress in the economy right now
for a lot of different people.Do you think timing right now
has anything to do with, or orwould be a good time to get
involved, or, you know, are youjust always being a buyer and
(26:14):
and that's what you're gonnarespond with?
Mark Podolsky (26:17):
I'm always a buyer. So if you, if you look at
the cycle in real estate, thatat times that it's going to be
easy to buy and and it's goingto be easy to sell, let's call
it equilibrium. There'll beother times in the economy, when
the economy gets really hot,it'll be, harder to buy, and
(26:38):
it'll be easy to sell. And thenlet's say we have a recession.
Then it's gonna be really easyto buy.
Everything's on sale, but itmight be harder to sell. But at
any one point in that in thatcycle, you're still in a good
situation, especially if youknow where you are at in the
cycle. So even in 02/2008, '2thousand '9, '2 thousand '10, I
(27:00):
was still profitable, as a landbusiness. It it it really it
really is going to be one ofthose things where you just
adapt to the cycle. And becausewe're not using debt, we're not
that's not big money, we havethis asset that, you know,
there's nothing to maintain,nothing to protect, nothing
can't be destroyed.
(27:21):
COVID, pandemics, hurricanes.You're not gonna get knocked out
of the cave in in this in thisbusiness.
Trent Werner (27:28):
I love I love how you said because you're not
leveraging, you know, you're notusing debt to make these
purchases. Your exposure ispretty much what you have into
the property. And then I guessproperty taxes, you know,
annually.
Mark Podolsky (27:42):
But exactly. And the property taxes are pretty
minor.
Trent Werner (27:46):
So this seems to be
Mark Podolsky (27:47):
sell that property in twelve months or
less. You know, your borrowerpays the property taxes.
Trent Werner (27:53):
So it seems like a pretty low risk, business to
start yet at the beginning.Right? I mean, depending on what
your budget is and all thatstuff.
Mark Podolsky (28:03):
I personally think it's the best passive
income model. If you could tellme something better, I'd love to
know what it is. Actually,there's one thing that's better.
Life insurance is better.Because life insurance is just
an idea, so you don't have to goout and buy anything.
But life insurance and land,it's a one time sale, and then
you get recurring income, andyou don't have to deal with any
(28:26):
real headaches when you whenyou're doing it. So besides life
insurance, which, again, lifeinsurance has its own issues
with, you know, beingcompetitive and you go to a
party, nobody wants to talk toyou, that type of issue. But I
would say land is the bestpassive income model.
Trent Werner (28:45):
Yeah. I am I'm trying to rack my brain, and I I
don't think that there are anyother examples that would would
come close to what we're talkingabout today. Yeah. Especially
for passive. You know, even evenbuying a a single family rental,
you know, some people will saythat's passive, but in reality,
it's it's not passive at all.
Mark Podolsky (29:03):
No. And, you know, when I say passive, it's
not like you don't have to doanything. Right? But once you've
done the work, then it can bevery passive. Once you've set up
the machine, once you have yoursoftware, your virtual
assistants, and your software onthe back end, you're just really
just feeding a capital at thatpoint and managing.
And if you don't wanna manage,you could hire someone to manage
(29:24):
it, like an acquisition manager.But Mhmm. In the beginning, it's
it's not passive. So if you'relistening to this, I'm making it
sound if I think I'm making itsound easy, it's not easy. It's
a simple model.
But, honestly, nothing worthdoing is easy. There's just no
get rich quick that has any typeof longevity to it. Not even not
(29:46):
even crypto.
Trent Werner (29:49):
That was a pretty timely comment too, considering
Bitcoin is testing all timehighs every single day now.
Mark Podolsky (29:55):
Yeah. Ex exactly. Exactly.
Trent Werner (29:58):
Mark, is there anything that we didn't discuss
today or maybe the listenerswould like to hear from you
before we wrap things up?
Mark Podolsky (30:06):
Yeah. I mean, I'm a listener. I'm skeptical
Because here's a guy. If it's sogreat, why are you teaching it?
And I think it's a fairquestion.
And so in 02/2010, I was onvacation, and this guy, Tory,
called me. And he's on mywebsite, and he's like, hey. I'm
(30:26):
I'm really interested inlearning to do what you what you
do. And I said, look. I I don'tteach this.
And he's like, what if I pay youthis? Like, oh, okay. So I'm
like, let me get back to you. SoI go to my wife. I'm like, hey.
This guy wants me to teach himthe land business. And she's
like, why would you do that?You're gonna create your own
competition. So I said, goodpoint. So I'm like, let's put on
(30:50):
the investment banking app, andlet's just see how big this
market is.
And it turns out there'sbillions of acres of raw land,
and you literally can't think ofa more boring real estate niche.
Like, you're not gonna go onHGTV or the DIY network unless
you flip this land. The beforepictures were all in. The after
pictures were all in. And sowhat I discovered was that as I
(31:12):
taught Tory how to do thisbusiness, it was extremely
gratifying because it changedhis life.
His first deal, he made$300,000. And so it was, like,
for him, life changing money.And I've got to a point where I
realized that the land businessfor me helps me and my family,
(31:32):
but teaching it is absolutelybeen my vocation in the sense
that there's nothing moregratifying than literally
changing the trajectory ofsomebody's life and being that
pebble in the pond. And thatimpact then spreads. It also
affects all their relationships,And, and so I I absolutely love
(31:57):
that that aspect of of thebusiness and and that part of
the land geek is having thatprivilege and and honor to
possibly affect that type ofchange.
Trent Werner (32:09):
And I can tell that you are you mean that.
You're very genuine when youwhen you say that, and you're
genuine in things that I've seenonline and social media of you
genuinely get excited to teachthis to other people. And I
think that's you know, that'sone of the coolest things about
you. And for anyone that doeswant to take that step and go
actually get into it, I thinkMark is probably the best at
(32:33):
teaching it in terms of thisland land investment business.
And like you said, it may not besexy, but, you know, plumbers
make good money and they dealwith dirty jobs and, you know,
they don't they don't have allthe shiny, shiny stuff when it
comes to what they're dealingwith.
But this is a niche in realestate that I don't think is is
talked about enough. Everyonewants to talk about syndicating
(32:54):
apartment buildings and and thatstuff, which is what which is
what we do. But this is this isa niche that I think is great
for people that want to buildtheir own real estate business
and and start from ground zero.
Mark Podolsky (33:07):
No. A %. And there's nothing wrong with
syndicating apartment buildings.And you could even look at the
land business as the gatewaydrug to doing those bigger,
sexier deals so that peopleactually talk to you at the
party.
Trent Werner (33:22):
Well, Mark, thank you so much for for sharing
about yourself and The LandGeek. We do have a link so
people can can go check out thebook, and I will definitely make
sure The Land Geek's website islinked in the in the show notes.
Thank you so much.
Mark Podolsky (33:35):
Thanks, Trent. Appreciate you.
Intro speaker (33:37):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
Real Estate ProfessionalsInvesting podcast on Wynn, your
community of investing knowledgefor growth. We hope that this
episode has increased yourknowledge and added value to
your path to freedom. If youwould, please take a second to
rate us so that we can get moregreat investors to interview. If
you or someone that you knowwants to be on, please visit
(33:57):
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Thank you again and enjoy yourday.
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