April 30, 2025 • 28 mins
Check the episode transcript here
ABOUT CALEB DAVID
Caleb is the Principal of David Commercial Real Estate. Creating space for people to be seen, heard and known makes Caleb David come alive. His love for the Front Range community, partnership, and connecting with people has helped Caleb to become one of the leading brokers in the Colorado Springs market. He provides reliable expertise in office, medical, retail, industrial and land markets. As an investor and owner of commercial real estate himself, Caleb brings a unique perspective and solid advice to his local, national and international clients. An epicurean at heart, Caleb loves traveling and sitting down to a delicious meal with friends and family.
THIS TOPIC IN A NUTSHELL:
Caleb’s journey to Commercial Real Estate
Flex warehouse deal in Colorado Springs
Importance of maintaining a broader perspective in brokerage
Commercial real estate Insights and multiple sectors
Acquisition of CRE property and value-add plan
Market awareness and understanding local dynamics
Strategies for evaluating tenants
Connect with Caleb
KEY QUOTE:
“As a broker, my job is not to just be like, hey, let's go find you something. It's like, no, let's find the best opportunity and get you connected with all of the right people that can help you financially get to the place where in three years when I come to visit you, you're still smiling.”
ABOUT THE WESTSIDE INVESTORS NETWORK
The Westside Investors Network is your community for investing knowledge for growth. For real estate professionals by real estate professionals. This show is focused on the next step in your career... investing, for those starting with nothing to multifamily syndication.
The Westside Investors Network strives to bring knowledge and education to real estate professionals that is seeking to gain more freedom in their life. The host AJ and Chris Shepard, are committed to sharing the wealth of knowledge that they have gained throughout the years to allow others the opportunity to learn and grow in their investing. They own Uptown Properties, a successful Property Management, and Brokerage Company. If you are interested in Property Management in the Portland Metro or Bend Metro Areas, please visit www.uptownpm.com. If you are interested in investing in multifamily syndication, please visit www.uptownsyndication.com.
#CommercialRealEstate #CRE #CommercialProperty #OfficeSpace #RetailSpace #IndustrialRealEstate #CREDeals #CREMarket #CREDevelopment #CommercialBroker #RealEstateBroker #CREBroker #TopBroker #BrokerLife #RealEstateAdvisor #CREBrokerage #LicensedBroker #CommercialSector #UrbanDevelopment #CommercialGrowth #MixedUseDevelopment #BusinessRealEstate #CorporateRealEstate #RealEstateDevelopment #RealEstateInvestor #CREInvestor #InvestInRealEstate #RealEstatePortfolio #CashFlow #PassiveIncome #WealthBuilding
CONNECT WITH CALEB:
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/calebdavid
Instagram: www.instagram.com/calebdavid
Facebook: www.facebook.com/calebdavid
TikTok: @caleb25david
CONNECT WITH US
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro speaker (00:03):
Welcome to the Westside Investors Network. WIN,
your community of investingknowledge for growth. This is
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(00:24):
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or take any other action.
Trent Werner (00:40):
Welcome back to another episode of the deal deep
dive segment on the WestsideInvestors Network podcast. I'm
your host, Trent Warner. In thissegment, our future guests will
share their unique stories on aspecific deal they've invested
in. We will dive deep intofinding the deal, financing the
deal, writing an offer, and thedue diligence. Do us a solid and
smash that subscribe button,leave us a rating, and share
(01:03):
this episode.
And now let's dive deep. Welcomeback to the Westside Investors
Network podcast. I'm your host,Trent Werner. On today's
episode, we are joined by CalebDavid. Caleb is the principal at
David Commercial Real Estate inColorado Springs.
We're gonna hear about Caleb'stwelve year commercial real
estate career and some of thestories he's sharing about
(01:23):
tenant and property ownerrepresentation. We're also gonna
dive deep into Caleb's personalinvestment in a commercial flex
space property in a part of townthat was just getting ready to
pop when he and his partnersbought this deal. Now let's
welcome Caleb David. Caleb Davidjoining the Westside Investors
(01:43):
Network podcast. Caleb, thanksso much for calling in from
Colorado.
Caleb David (01:47):
Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Trent Werner (01:49):
So Caleb, this is our first time meeting,
obviously, and I'm excited forour conversation. For people
that have not met you prior,like myself, who is Caleb David?
Caleb David (01:59):
You know, I'm a dad. I am a broker. I think very
often we say who we are is bywhat we do. And I've learned
over the last ten years that Iam who I am outside of
brokerage, outside of being adad, but those are the things
that I'm most proud of. And mybackground is actually in the
nonprofit sector.
And so I took all that I'velearned from the nonprofit
(02:23):
sector and how to serve peopleas well as possible with dignity
and respect and bring that tothe table in real estate.
Trent Werner (02:31):
And going from nonprofit sector to brokerage,
what ignited that transition?
Caleb David (02:38):
Yeah, no, honestly, so we did a lot of work that was
very social justice driven. So alot of really hard things. We
served on the board fororganization that reunified kids
who had been trafficked. Weworked with Syrian refugees on
the border. And it can be veryfulfilling, but also incredibly
draining.
And you don't really make aliving doing those things. And
(03:01):
so I was in a place of burnoutand a friend of mine about a
little ten, twelve years agocame to me and he said, Have you
ever thought about real estate?And I was like, Yeah, sure, I
could sell some houses, guess.And he's like, No, this is
commercial. And fell into aposition with a small boutique
firm and fell in love with theindustry.
I haven't looked I
Trent Werner (03:20):
love that. So a as I mean, sounds like you were
doing some work in situationsthat could be emotionally
taxing, very difficult to, youknow, be in encompassed with.
Yeah. How has that transitionedinto your brokerage life?
Caleb David (03:37):
Yeah, that's a really good question. Honestly,
I hadn't thought about thatbefore. So I appreciate the
insight. I do think that thereis when you're in really high
pressure situations, I mean,whether you're crossing the
border between Israel andPalestine, that's a stressful
moment, right? And you getpulled aside because I look
Palestinian.
And so I get pulled aside andall this stuff. And so you have
(03:59):
to keep your cool and realizethat what's happening in this
moment is not forever. And thatit you know, this moment is
going to pass, but how do I stayas grounded as possible and be
as present as possible, so thatI can make the wisest decision
in front of me.
Trent Werner (04:14):
Yeah, well, brokerage, there's always
curveballs thrown at you,Whether it's, you know, an
inspection that went awry ornegotiations just aren't, you
know, as easy as you thoughtthey were gonna be. And so I'm
assuming that being able to keepher cool in the situation like
you just mentioned, helps withsome of the brokerage things
that may pop up during thepandemic.
Caleb David (04:37):
Think you have to keep your cool as much as
possible because you realizethat there's a bigger picture at
play here. And I think veryoften in brokerage, it's very
easy for our egos to get in theway and be like, well, I said
this and I did that and I'mright. You know, at some point,
those things don't matter asmuch. It's like, what is the big
picture? It's not thereactivity, it's the how do we
be proactive and see things forwhat they really are, not just
(04:59):
how they make us feel.
Trent Werner (05:01):
And being able to marry the emotional and logical
thinking together to create agood situation for everyone
involved.
Caleb David (05:10):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Trent Werner (05:11):
So Caleb, as a broker, what are you primarily
focused on? I know you saidyou're not selling houses per
se, but what kind of brokerageand deals are you working on as
a broker?
Caleb David (05:21):
Yes, as a broker right now, we're seeing the
market slowly coming back fromthe last two years of high
interest rates and not a wholelot of activity. So right now
we're seeing a lot of activityin the industrial sector, we're
seeing activity in the retailsector, but we also do a lot of
work in office land. Land hasbeen taking a long, long time.
Of course they don't make itanymore, So prices are staying
(05:44):
pretty steady, but at the sametime, people are not pulling the
trigger as quickly on thoseparticular things. So done some
multifamily, a little bit thatwe're not a huge market, but I'm
one of those people that doesnot like to get bored.
And so, I'm not just a strictoffice guy. I think a lot of
times when you get intocommercial real estate, people
(06:04):
say you've got to specialize.And I think it depends on your
market and depends upon the firmthat you're with. Because I
personally believe, especiallypost COVID, what happened with
the retail market affected theindustrial market. Everybody
started going to warehouses,right?
And they went to smallerimprints on retail. And so to
me, I think each each of thedifferent markets informs the
(06:26):
other in some way, shape orform. So I think to have a well
balanced understanding of all ofthose sectors is really
important.
Trent Werner (06:33):
Absolutely. And and Colorado Springs, I mean,
what is the biggest sector ofcommercial real estate that you
guys have there?
Caleb David (06:41):
You know, there's a lot of retail because we are
very tourism driven. The city,we've got a lot of military and
we also have a lot of defensecontractors and that sort of
thing. So we've got a prettybalanced I think retail and
industrial are probably thehighest activity currently. And
again, post COVID, people madechanges to their office
(07:02):
situations and how they're goingto handle things. So we actually
did not get hit like Denver gothit with office market.
Go downtown Denver and you'vegot entire buildings that are
vacant. Just saw a post today, abuilding that sold in 2019, I
think for about 40,000,000 justsold for 20,000,000. So Denver's
(07:26):
taken some significant hits andI do work up there, but it's
important to understand thedynamics of the two different
markets, how they work together,and then how Colorado Springs
for the most part has beensheltered from the disaster that
Denver was hit with.
Trent Werner (07:42):
Absolutely. And Caleb, you've done tons of deals
on the brokerage side. I wannaask you about your deal that you
when you were a landlord. It wasa commercial real estate deal in
Colorado Springs.
Caleb David (07:54):
Yeah.
Trent Werner (07:55):
Tell me about this deal when you were first of all,
what what kind of property wasit? And second of all, how did
you find it? And what made youwant to ultimately pull the
trigger on that deal?
Caleb David (08:07):
Yeah. So you know, when I got into commercial real
estate, the boutique firm that Iworked with, the owners were
also developers and propertyowners. The end all was not just
transactions. So from the verybeginning, I was trained to look
for a good deal. You know, whatare you looking for?
How do you capitalize on it? Isthis good for your client? Is
this something that you shouldconsider yourself? And so I made
(08:31):
a goal when I first got into theindustry that by the time I was
five years in, I wanted to be abuilding owner. And it was right
around year three, we cameacross this property that just
popped up on the market.
Another broker in town that weknew really well and worked well
with had brought it to market.It's a little rundown in an area
that really wasn't honestly thatdesirable. But we had been
(08:54):
paying attention to what's goingon around the city, where are
the pockets, where are thingspopping up. And so we knew that
coming up within the next threeto five years of having that
property, that area would becompletely redeveloped. And so
we took a look at it and it wasa property was two, I think it
was like $230,000 really not ahuge property, but it was a kind
(09:19):
of a retail industrial flex mixbecause it was in the middle of
a retail, right in betweenretail and industrial sectors.
So we just thought this isreally interesting because we
noticed that the tenants that wewere representing were looking
for smaller spaces at the time.And it was a time when a lot of
(09:39):
people were starting to dorenovations on their homes, the
market had picked back up,people were feeling a little bit
more confident. And so we took alook at it, we said, okay, how
can we do this? And so we knewit wasn't an ideal location, we
knew it was a little bitrundown. So we're like, we can
probably add some value here andfind a tenant that will lease a
space that will cover ourmortgage.
(10:01):
And the other thing that wereally looked at too, is we were
like, Alright, we're brokers. Sowe're not necessarily bringing
cash to the table. But what wecan do is we can put our
commissions in as cash at theclosing table, and use that as a
unique way being licensed to notcome out of pocket a whole lot
of money and use the capital wedid have to make a few upgrades
(10:23):
and fixes to the property.
Trent Werner (10:25):
Absolutely. And so tell me more about this space.
You said it was a retailindustrial flex. Does that mean,
you know, is retail, back is awarehouse or tell me about that?
Caleb David (10:34):
Yep, exactly. So the front was retail and not
ideal, it wasn't on a main road.I mean, was just off one of the
main arterials, but we justknew, okay, listen, this would
be great for some sort ofservice company, you know,
whether it be HVAC, plumber,somebody like that, that is a
small business looking to kindof grow out of their home and
into something a little bitlarger, so they can expand their
(10:58):
business. And that's always beenhuge is that we want, whether
I'm a landlord or broker, I wantwhat's best for the client or
the tenant, because I want tocome back in two or three years
and be like, all right, they'restill there, they're growing or
they need to move. And so that'sthe mindset that I go with.
Was never one of the Alwaysfrustrated when you have a
landlord that doesn't care aboutthe property, lets it get run
(11:20):
down. And so we just wanted tobe their present and self manage
the property. And so that's whatwe ended up doing. Yeah, retail
in the front had a few officesin there for admin, and then the
rest was warehouse and had asmall fenced in yard, which in
our market is really hard tofind. And so we started seeing
(11:40):
the trends of where it wasgoing.
And so we thought let's snatchit up. And it was a great
decision.
Trent Werner (11:46):
And what kind of upgrades did you make? I know
you mentioned there was somevalue add that could have been
done there. Upgrades did you endup doing?
Caleb David (11:53):
We replaced the front door. I mean, was just it
got really stuck and it wasreally awkward. We did had it
professionally cleaned, we hadsome paint touch up, cleaned the
carpets, but we knew going intothis that as soon as we got it
under contract, we're gonna gotry to find a tenant right away
while it's under contract. Andso we started doing that and we
(12:14):
started just kind of talking topeople and just kind of feeling
it out. And out of the blue, wehad an HVAC company that came to
us that said, we need to move,we need to grow and showed the
property.
And after the details that we Imentioned earlier, what the
minor things that we did, spaceworked for them. And we had a
(12:36):
signed lease on the same day asclosing. So we didn't have a
single day that that buildingwas not was was sitting empty
once we owned it.
Trent Werner (12:46):
That's a pretty good setup if you ask me.
Caleb David (12:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it took a little extra work,
right? Because we're not we'remarketing a property that's not
technically on the market forlease. But relationships are so
important. And I think when itcomes to stuff like this, even
when it came to our lender, itwas all personal relationships
and professional relations thatwe pulled on to be able to work
on this together to pull it off.
Trent Werner (13:09):
Right, and so now talk to me, you closed on it,
you got the tenant moving in,what happens next?
Caleb David (13:17):
So we just, I mean, we hardly hear from the tenant.
We go check-in every once in awhile. Eventually they ended up
going out of business. This isafter I exited the investment
myself, but they just startedgrowing and growing and growing.
And, know, we had a greatworking relationship with our
tenant and, you know, husbandand wife team, and they just
(13:40):
offered a great service to thecommunity.
And they did really, really wellfor a good season. And so we
really didn't have a whole lotof major issues. We didn't have
any roof leaks, we didn't haveany HVAC. We did replace the
HVAC for them at one point, butother than that, I mean, they
were great tenants and quiettenants are great ones. As long
(14:06):
as there's communication andtouching in and paying their
rent.
Trent Werner (14:11):
What kind of lease was it on? Was it triple net?
Caleb David (14:14):
It was actually because it was a single tenant
building. We did do a triple netlease and then they did all of
their own utilities directlywith the utility company. And
so, yeah, we signed a, I believeit was a three year lease to
start off and then they did arenewal and we built in annual
escalations for every singleyear.
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uptownsyndication.com today tolearn more. And how long I know
you said that you exitedyourself maybe prior to the
building selling or whatnot.
How long were you involved inthe in the investment?
Caleb David (15:43):
I was involved in the investment probably for
about, I would say about fiveyears. And we really did see,
mean, I think the importance ofunderstanding the market, or
having a broker, if you're aninvestor that understands the
heartbeat and what's happeningon the ground. I mean, you go by
there now. And I mean, there 'sbrand new Whataburger, there's
(16:04):
brand new convenience stores onevery corner, you know, and so
having that foresight and justunderstanding of this is where
it's going. And I think that'swhen you make your best
investment is when you take thatrisk and say, you know, I
believe this is where it'sgoing.
Because if you're waiting righthere now for the best deal,
you're not necessarily gonna getit, you know. So I think it's
(16:26):
something about understandingthe trajectory of of the market
and and and the behavior ofpeople and tenants.
Trent Werner (16:33):
And Kale, what made you want to pull out of
that investment when you did?Was there any one reason?
Caleb David (16:40):
There was. I was starting my own firm, and I was
leaving the partnership that Iwas in which we owned our own
real estate firm together. Andso when I was going, I just
didn't, I wanted there just be aclean break. And so just so
there wasn't any you know,leftover anything. So we ended
(17:01):
up walking away with way morethan I put in, you know.
And so it was a great time. Wasalso going through a divorce at
the time. So finances wereimportant. And so and then I was
launching my new company. Sobeing able to take that money,
that seed money and put it intowhat I've built now is what I
did with that.
Trent Werner (17:21):
And what did you learn from taking this leap and
investing in an area that wascoming up, but wasn't there by
any means yet? And what did youlearn from being on the landlord
side after you'd already been inthe brokerage business for a few
years?
Caleb David (17:37):
Yeah, couple of things. So the first being, it
was important for me to trustmyself, because I knew that
there was something here. And sothat was one of the biggest
things because I think it's veryeasy for us to doubt ourselves,
especially if you're doing itfor the first time. And so I
think it taught me that, youknow what, trust your instincts.
And on the other side, what ittaught me is it gave me
(18:00):
compassion for my landlords whohave tenants that are struggling
to be able to go when I go to alisting appointment and say,
Hey, listen, you know, Mr.
Asset Manager, you know, whyshould you hire me? Because I
understand what it's like to bein your shoes. I understand what
it's like to self manage aproperty. I know the different
challenges that come up. So whenI bring a tenant to you, for
(18:24):
your building, I'm going totreat it like it's mine.
And I'm not going to ask you todo a deal that I would not put
into my own building. And Ifound that goes a long way with
building owners. Because a lotof times in our industry, people
are just doing transactions,they're not necessarily or
they're investing and they'rejust kind of doing their own
thing. But for me, it became atool in my toolbox to be able to
go to owners and say, here's whyyou should hire me. We're gonna
(18:48):
look at financials, I'm notgoing to sit here and ask you to
sign a lease so I can get acommission paycheck, if it's not
something I believe in.
And so I think those are acouple of things that I really
learned and took away from thatexperience.
Trent Werner (19:02):
And when it comes to, you know, bringing a tenant
to an owner or an asset manager,for example, what are some
things that you're looking at,whether it was from your own
investment or from other dealsthat you've done? What are
things that you're looking at inthe tenant to feel confident to
tell the owner that they'regoing to be a good fit?
Caleb David (19:20):
Yeah, obviously, can look at financials, You can
look at a business plan, you cansee how long they've been in
business. Always go and checkthe Secretary of State website
to make sure they're in goodstanding. If they're not, that's
a little bit of a red flag forme. And so I think there's
little tools like that that youcan do, but also if they have a
reference from a previouslandlord, that's important to
(19:41):
take a look at. But some of itis just gut, you know, and we're
always gonna look at financialsthough.
We're always gonna look athistory. I look at Google
reviews, because do I want atenant in my building that's
getting trashed left and rightand it's gonna end up leaving my
building empty because they justcan't keep up with all the bad
(20:02):
press. So those are some thingsI look at. And I also work
really closely with our localSBDC, the Small Business
Development Corporation. Andwhether it's a tenant I'm
representing or someone that'scoming to a building that I
represent, if they're not ready,they don't have a business plan,
they don't have the rightresources, then I'm going to set
them somewhere where they canget that so that they can with
(20:24):
confidence, come back when thetime is right and be a great
tenant.
Trent Werner (20:30):
And I'm assuming so I'm I'm a residential small
multifamily broker. I'm, youknow, I'm definitely not a
commercial broker by any means.But there's got to be some
difference between a smallercompany or startup company, for
example, versus, you know, anational brand or international
brand, for example. What are thebiggest differences when you're
(20:51):
doing a tenant rep deal thatyou're seeing aside from just
finances and brand awareness?Are there, you know, is there
more emotion with a startup andmom and pop versus the big box?
Caleb David (21:04):
I mean, it depends on the person, right? I think,
you know, I just got a leasesigned this morning up in
Golden, Colorado with a clientwho we've been working on trying
to find a space for six months.It's her first time going into
business for herself. However,she's managed these kickboxing
gyms for the last eight years,and she's got a business degree,
and she read the lease line byline. And so that is somebody
(21:29):
that I'm like, all right, yes, Ihave full confidence that she's
going to be incrediblysuccessful.
The other call I got today wassomeone whose restaurant, they
got evicted from the restaurantthat they had because of all of
these different hail issues thathappened over the last year. And
now she's like, this is mypassion, but I've lost, I don't
have any money. We're about tolose our house and my in laws
(21:51):
are about to lose their house.And so two complete different
minds is where she's like, Iwant to do this. And me as a
broker, I want to help.
And I feel that her business hasbeen stolen from her because of
how the landlord handled thedamage in the property. But I
can't go to a landlord and say,Oh yeah, it's going be fine.
(22:12):
Everything's going to be fine.It has to be, No, here's the
story. And I think that'simportant in commercial real
estate is to tell the story foryour tenant and see if that
story lines up between thelandlord and the tenant.
So that's very different,financing is very different, it
takes longer to get financing,but there's also more resources
available, whether it be if it'sa women's owned business, there
(22:35):
could be some grants available.If you're a minority owned
business, there could be grantsavailable. So for me as a
broker, I feel like my job isnot to just be like, hey, let's
go find you something. It'slike, no, let's find the best
opportunity and let's get youconnected with all of the right
people that can help youfinancially get to the place
where in three years when I cometo visit you, you're still
(22:58):
smiling.
Trent Werner (22:59):
Right. And Caleb, how how have, you know, the the
behemoths like Amazon and, youknow, all the other companies,
have those impacted your localmarket if they have impacted
them?
Caleb David (23:12):
They absolutely have. And when I first started
the market, it was the marijuanaindustry that was the major
factor. Every other phone callyou got was I need a warehouse I
need to grow. That is long sincegone and all those guys have all
been eaten up by all the bigguys. But we work closely with
our chamber and EDC.
And so when Amazon came, they'relike, hey, we want to build a
(23:33):
two, four million square footlocation by the airport, we'd
see that come through. I didn'twork with them specifically on
any of those deals, but some ofthe bigger ones, whether it be a
defense contractor, of course,we're huge military as well. We
have Space Command in ColoradoSprings. So those big guys
(23:53):
definitely do play a big part,but typically have people that
they've worked with for theirexpansions throughout the
country. And so, and I tellpeople all the time, doing a
lease for 1,000 square feet canbe just as much work and hassle
as a deal where you get paid$100,000 on a commission.
(24:16):
So it just depends on who you'redealing with and what their
personalities are. I woulddefinitely say there's not as
much emotion as there would beon the residential side. Because
for the most part, people arelooking for facts. Does the
floor plan work? How much tenantimprovements will I be given?
Do the numbers make sense? Butthen there are situations where
I dealt with a zoom call todayof a lease I got signed back in
(24:39):
the fall, where it's a nonprofitthat does really hard work. They
didn't have an attorney previewtheir lease as I suggested. And
now there's misunderstanding.And so now there's a lot of
emotion happening.
Deal's been done for months, butwe're still dealing with the
after effects. And we try not tojust bail on our clients. You
(24:59):
know, we're like the deal'sdone. Yes, we get it. But let us
walk you through to the end.
Trent Werner (25:05):
Yeah, I mean, it makes perfect sense. Have there
been have there been anypositive or, I guess, trickle
down impacts being in the marketwhere there is big military and
defense contracts and Amazon andall these big companies, has
there been any positive trickledown effects from that size
business or industry being inColorado Springs for some of
(25:26):
your smaller tenants?
Caleb David (25:27):
Yeah, absolutely. Because we have I actually had a
guy who ran a Jimmy John'sfranchise, but his full time job
was as a defense contractor. SoI represented him on a couple of
deals for his Jimmy John'slocations. And we just built a
relationship. Then one day hecalled me and he was like, Oh,
we just are getting a newcontract.
(25:47):
Can you help us find officespace? And so we were able to do
that about three years ago. Andhe's now since come back and
said, Hey, we're about to getawarded potentially a massive
project and I might need 50,000to 60,000 square feet. So that
hasn't materialized yet. But Ithink people remember how you
treat them, you know, and Ithink if you remain
(26:09):
professional, if you don't know,if I don't know the answer to
something, I'm gonna say, youknow what, let me find out.
I'm not going to pretend likeI've got it all figured out.
Defense contractors are not myspecialty. But because of that
working relationship and trust,we've been able to get at least
one five year lease from thatone, and potentially another
very large one later on thisyear.
Trent Werner (26:31):
And that goes to show that doing good business,
serving your clients properly isgoing to pay off for all parties
in the future.
Caleb David (26:39):
It's harder work, but you know what? It's the
right thing to do. And I think,you know, it it all comes back
around. So, you know, there'sbeen times where I've walked
away from chunks of money,because it violated the values
that I had. And I was like,yeah, it's not worth it.
Trent Werner (26:55):
Absolutely. Well, Caleb, where can people hear
more from you, connect with you,or if they're looking for space
in Colorado Springs, I guessAbsolutely. Get in touch with
you.
Caleb David (27:05):
Yeah, so they can go to our website, which is just
www.davidcommercial.com orfollow me. I do more updates on
Instagram than anything else. Soit's just
instagram.com/calipdavid. Samewith LinkedIn. And you can also
follow me, I'm newly on TikTok,and I'm not that techie.
But we're trying out this newtechnology, for me at least, and
(27:25):
that is calob25david. And thengo to our website, look around
if you guys have questions aboutwhether it be an investment or
it's about your lease or you'reanywhere in Colorado or you're
just somebody curious a brokeror someone who wants to get into
the industry, I I would love toshare any knowledge that I have
and see what we can do to be aresource to your listeners.
Trent Werner (27:47):
Very nice. Thank you so much, Caleb. I appreciate
your time and sharing about yourpersonal investment deal in
Colorado as well as yourbrokerage business.
Caleb David (27:56):
Thank you very much. Great to have you, and
thanks for the insights that youbrought to my attention.
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Trent Werner (00:40):
Welcome back to another episode of the deal deep
dive segment on the WestsideInvestors Network podcast. I'm
your host, Trent Warner. In thissegment, our future guests will
share their unique stories on aspecific deal they've invested
in. We will dive deep intofinding the deal, financing the
deal, writing an offer, and thedue diligence. Do us a solid and
smash that subscribe button,leave us a rating, and share
(01:03):
this episode.
And now let's dive deep. Welcomeback to the Westside Investors
Network podcast. I'm your host,Trent Werner. On today's
episode, we are joined by CalebDavid. Caleb is the principal at
David Commercial Real Estate inColorado Springs.
We're gonna hear about Caleb'stwelve year commercial real
estate career and some of thestories he's sharing about
(01:23):
tenant and property ownerrepresentation. We're also gonna
dive deep into Caleb's personalinvestment in a commercial flex
space property in a part of townthat was just getting ready to
pop when he and his partnersbought this deal. Now let's
welcome Caleb David. Caleb Davidjoining the Westside Investors
(01:43):
Network podcast. Caleb, thanksso much for calling in from
Colorado.
Caleb David (01:47):
Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Trent Werner (01:49):
So Caleb, this is our first time meeting,
obviously, and I'm excited forour conversation. For people
that have not met you prior,like myself, who is Caleb David?
Caleb David (01:59):
You know, I'm a dad. I am a broker. I think very
often we say who we are is bywhat we do. And I've learned
over the last ten years that Iam who I am outside of
brokerage, outside of being adad, but those are the things
that I'm most proud of. And mybackground is actually in the
nonprofit sector.
And so I took all that I'velearned from the nonprofit
(02:23):
sector and how to serve peopleas well as possible with dignity
and respect and bring that tothe table in real estate.
Trent Werner (02:31):
And going from nonprofit sector to brokerage,
what ignited that transition?
Caleb David (02:38):
Yeah, no, honestly, so we did a lot of work that was
very social justice driven. So alot of really hard things. We
served on the board fororganization that reunified kids
who had been trafficked. Weworked with Syrian refugees on
the border. And it can be veryfulfilling, but also incredibly
draining.
And you don't really make aliving doing those things. And
(03:01):
so I was in a place of burnoutand a friend of mine about a
little ten, twelve years agocame to me and he said, Have you
ever thought about real estate?And I was like, Yeah, sure, I
could sell some houses, guess.And he's like, No, this is
commercial. And fell into aposition with a small boutique
firm and fell in love with theindustry.
I haven't looked I
Trent Werner (03:20):
love that. So a as I mean, sounds like you were
doing some work in situationsthat could be emotionally
taxing, very difficult to, youknow, be in encompassed with.
Yeah. How has that transitionedinto your brokerage life?
Caleb David (03:37):
Yeah, that's a really good question. Honestly,
I hadn't thought about thatbefore. So I appreciate the
insight. I do think that thereis when you're in really high
pressure situations, I mean,whether you're crossing the
border between Israel andPalestine, that's a stressful
moment, right? And you getpulled aside because I look
Palestinian.
And so I get pulled aside andall this stuff. And so you have
(03:59):
to keep your cool and realizethat what's happening in this
moment is not forever. And thatit you know, this moment is
going to pass, but how do I stayas grounded as possible and be
as present as possible, so thatI can make the wisest decision
in front of me.
Trent Werner (04:14):
Yeah, well, brokerage, there's always
curveballs thrown at you,Whether it's, you know, an
inspection that went awry ornegotiations just aren't, you
know, as easy as you thoughtthey were gonna be. And so I'm
assuming that being able to keepher cool in the situation like
you just mentioned, helps withsome of the brokerage things
that may pop up during thepandemic.
Caleb David (04:37):
Think you have to keep your cool as much as
possible because you realizethat there's a bigger picture at
play here. And I think veryoften in brokerage, it's very
easy for our egos to get in theway and be like, well, I said
this and I did that and I'mright. You know, at some point,
those things don't matter asmuch. It's like, what is the big
picture? It's not thereactivity, it's the how do we
be proactive and see things forwhat they really are, not just
(04:59):
how they make us feel.
Trent Werner (05:01):
And being able to marry the emotional and logical
thinking together to create agood situation for everyone
involved.
Caleb David (05:10):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Trent Werner (05:11):
So Caleb, as a broker, what are you primarily
focused on? I know you saidyou're not selling houses per
se, but what kind of brokerageand deals are you working on as
a broker?
Caleb David (05:21):
Yes, as a broker right now, we're seeing the
market slowly coming back fromthe last two years of high
interest rates and not a wholelot of activity. So right now
we're seeing a lot of activityin the industrial sector, we're
seeing activity in the retailsector, but we also do a lot of
work in office land. Land hasbeen taking a long, long time.
Of course they don't make itanymore, So prices are staying
(05:44):
pretty steady, but at the sametime, people are not pulling the
trigger as quickly on thoseparticular things. So done some
multifamily, a little bit thatwe're not a huge market, but I'm
one of those people that doesnot like to get bored.
And so, I'm not just a strictoffice guy. I think a lot of
times when you get intocommercial real estate, people
(06:04):
say you've got to specialize.And I think it depends on your
market and depends upon the firmthat you're with. Because I
personally believe, especiallypost COVID, what happened with
the retail market affected theindustrial market. Everybody
started going to warehouses,right?
And they went to smallerimprints on retail. And so to
me, I think each each of thedifferent markets informs the
(06:26):
other in some way, shape orform. So I think to have a well
balanced understanding of all ofthose sectors is really
important.
Trent Werner (06:33):
Absolutely. And and Colorado Springs, I mean,
what is the biggest sector ofcommercial real estate that you
guys have there?
Caleb David (06:41):
You know, there's a lot of retail because we are
very tourism driven. The city,we've got a lot of military and
we also have a lot of defensecontractors and that sort of
thing. So we've got a prettybalanced I think retail and
industrial are probably thehighest activity currently. And
again, post COVID, people madechanges to their office
(07:02):
situations and how they're goingto handle things. So we actually
did not get hit like Denver gothit with office market.
Go downtown Denver and you'vegot entire buildings that are
vacant. Just saw a post today, abuilding that sold in 2019, I
think for about 40,000,000 justsold for 20,000,000. So Denver's
(07:26):
taken some significant hits andI do work up there, but it's
important to understand thedynamics of the two different
markets, how they work together,and then how Colorado Springs
for the most part has beensheltered from the disaster that
Denver was hit with.
Trent Werner (07:42):
Absolutely. And Caleb, you've done tons of deals
on the brokerage side. I wannaask you about your deal that you
when you were a landlord. It wasa commercial real estate deal in
Colorado Springs.
Caleb David (07:54):
Yeah.
Trent Werner (07:55):
Tell me about this deal when you were first of all,
what what kind of property wasit? And second of all, how did
you find it? And what made youwant to ultimately pull the
trigger on that deal?
Caleb David (08:07):
Yeah. So you know, when I got into commercial real
estate, the boutique firm that Iworked with, the owners were
also developers and propertyowners. The end all was not just
transactions. So from the verybeginning, I was trained to look
for a good deal. You know, whatare you looking for?
How do you capitalize on it? Isthis good for your client? Is
this something that you shouldconsider yourself? And so I made
(08:31):
a goal when I first got into theindustry that by the time I was
five years in, I wanted to be abuilding owner. And it was right
around year three, we cameacross this property that just
popped up on the market.
Another broker in town that weknew really well and worked well
with had brought it to market.It's a little rundown in an area
that really wasn't honestly thatdesirable. But we had been
(08:54):
paying attention to what's goingon around the city, where are
the pockets, where are thingspopping up. And so we knew that
coming up within the next threeto five years of having that
property, that area would becompletely redeveloped. And so
we took a look at it and it wasa property was two, I think it
was like $230,000 really not ahuge property, but it was a kind
(09:19):
of a retail industrial flex mixbecause it was in the middle of
a retail, right in betweenretail and industrial sectors.
So we just thought this isreally interesting because we
noticed that the tenants that wewere representing were looking
for smaller spaces at the time.And it was a time when a lot of
(09:39):
people were starting to dorenovations on their homes, the
market had picked back up,people were feeling a little bit
more confident. And so we took alook at it, we said, okay, how
can we do this? And so we knewit wasn't an ideal location, we
knew it was a little bitrundown. So we're like, we can
probably add some value here andfind a tenant that will lease a
space that will cover ourmortgage.
(10:01):
And the other thing that wereally looked at too, is we were
like, Alright, we're brokers. Sowe're not necessarily bringing
cash to the table. But what wecan do is we can put our
commissions in as cash at theclosing table, and use that as a
unique way being licensed to notcome out of pocket a whole lot
of money and use the capital wedid have to make a few upgrades
(10:23):
and fixes to the property.
Trent Werner (10:25):
Absolutely. And so tell me more about this space.
You said it was a retailindustrial flex. Does that mean,
you know, is retail, back is awarehouse or tell me about that?
Caleb David (10:34):
Yep, exactly. So the front was retail and not
ideal, it wasn't on a main road.I mean, was just off one of the
main arterials, but we justknew, okay, listen, this would
be great for some sort ofservice company, you know,
whether it be HVAC, plumber,somebody like that, that is a
small business looking to kindof grow out of their home and
into something a little bitlarger, so they can expand their
(10:58):
business. And that's always beenhuge is that we want, whether
I'm a landlord or broker, I wantwhat's best for the client or
the tenant, because I want tocome back in two or three years
and be like, all right, they'restill there, they're growing or
they need to move. And so that'sthe mindset that I go with.
Was never one of the Alwaysfrustrated when you have a
landlord that doesn't care aboutthe property, lets it get run
(11:20):
down. And so we just wanted tobe their present and self manage
the property. And so that's whatwe ended up doing. Yeah, retail
in the front had a few officesin there for admin, and then the
rest was warehouse and had asmall fenced in yard, which in
our market is really hard tofind. And so we started seeing
(11:40):
the trends of where it wasgoing.
And so we thought let's snatchit up. And it was a great
decision.
Trent Werner (11:46):
And what kind of upgrades did you make? I know
you mentioned there was somevalue add that could have been
done there. Upgrades did you endup doing?
Caleb David (11:53):
We replaced the front door. I mean, was just it
got really stuck and it wasreally awkward. We did had it
professionally cleaned, we hadsome paint touch up, cleaned the
carpets, but we knew going intothis that as soon as we got it
under contract, we're gonna gotry to find a tenant right away
while it's under contract. Andso we started doing that and we
(12:14):
started just kind of talking topeople and just kind of feeling
it out. And out of the blue, wehad an HVAC company that came to
us that said, we need to move,we need to grow and showed the
property.
And after the details that we Imentioned earlier, what the
minor things that we did, spaceworked for them. And we had a
(12:36):
signed lease on the same day asclosing. So we didn't have a
single day that that buildingwas not was was sitting empty
once we owned it.
Trent Werner (12:46):
That's a pretty good setup if you ask me.
Caleb David (12:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it took a little extra work,
right? Because we're not we'remarketing a property that's not
technically on the market forlease. But relationships are so
important. And I think when itcomes to stuff like this, even
when it came to our lender, itwas all personal relationships
and professional relations thatwe pulled on to be able to work
on this together to pull it off.
Trent Werner (13:09):
Right, and so now talk to me, you closed on it,
you got the tenant moving in,what happens next?
Caleb David (13:17):
So we just, I mean, we hardly hear from the tenant.
We go check-in every once in awhile. Eventually they ended up
going out of business. This isafter I exited the investment
myself, but they just startedgrowing and growing and growing.
And, know, we had a greatworking relationship with our
tenant and, you know, husbandand wife team, and they just
(13:40):
offered a great service to thecommunity.
And they did really, really wellfor a good season. And so we
really didn't have a whole lotof major issues. We didn't have
any roof leaks, we didn't haveany HVAC. We did replace the
HVAC for them at one point, butother than that, I mean, they
were great tenants and quiettenants are great ones. As long
(14:06):
as there's communication andtouching in and paying their
rent.
Trent Werner (14:11):
What kind of lease was it on? Was it triple net?
Caleb David (14:14):
It was actually because it was a single tenant
building. We did do a triple netlease and then they did all of
their own utilities directlywith the utility company. And
so, yeah, we signed a, I believeit was a three year lease to
start off and then they did arenewal and we built in annual
escalations for every singleyear.
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uptownsyndication.com today tolearn more. And how long I know
you said that you exitedyourself maybe prior to the
building selling or whatnot.
How long were you involved inthe in the investment?
Caleb David (15:43):
I was involved in the investment probably for
about, I would say about fiveyears. And we really did see,
mean, I think the importance ofunderstanding the market, or
having a broker, if you're aninvestor that understands the
heartbeat and what's happeningon the ground. I mean, you go by
there now. And I mean, there 'sbrand new Whataburger, there's
(16:04):
brand new convenience stores onevery corner, you know, and so
having that foresight and justunderstanding of this is where
it's going. And I think that'swhen you make your best
investment is when you take thatrisk and say, you know, I
believe this is where it'sgoing.
Because if you're waiting righthere now for the best deal,
you're not necessarily gonna getit, you know. So I think it's
(16:26):
something about understandingthe trajectory of of the market
and and and the behavior ofpeople and tenants.
Trent Werner (16:33):
And Kale, what made you want to pull out of
that investment when you did?Was there any one reason?
Caleb David (16:40):
There was. I was starting my own firm, and I was
leaving the partnership that Iwas in which we owned our own
real estate firm together. Andso when I was going, I just
didn't, I wanted there just be aclean break. And so just so
there wasn't any you know,leftover anything. So we ended
(17:01):
up walking away with way morethan I put in, you know.
And so it was a great time. Wasalso going through a divorce at
the time. So finances wereimportant. And so and then I was
launching my new company. Sobeing able to take that money,
that seed money and put it intowhat I've built now is what I
did with that.
Trent Werner (17:21):
And what did you learn from taking this leap and
investing in an area that wascoming up, but wasn't there by
any means yet? And what did youlearn from being on the landlord
side after you'd already been inthe brokerage business for a few
years?
Caleb David (17:37):
Yeah, couple of things. So the first being, it
was important for me to trustmyself, because I knew that
there was something here. And sothat was one of the biggest
things because I think it's veryeasy for us to doubt ourselves,
especially if you're doing itfor the first time. And so I
think it taught me that, youknow what, trust your instincts.
And on the other side, what ittaught me is it gave me
(18:00):
compassion for my landlords whohave tenants that are struggling
to be able to go when I go to alisting appointment and say,
Hey, listen, you know, Mr.
Asset Manager, you know, whyshould you hire me? Because I
understand what it's like to bein your shoes. I understand what
it's like to self manage aproperty. I know the different
challenges that come up. So whenI bring a tenant to you, for
(18:24):
your building, I'm going totreat it like it's mine.
And I'm not going to ask you todo a deal that I would not put
into my own building. And Ifound that goes a long way with
building owners. Because a lotof times in our industry, people
are just doing transactions,they're not necessarily or
they're investing and they'rejust kind of doing their own
thing. But for me, it became atool in my toolbox to be able to
go to owners and say, here's whyyou should hire me. We're gonna
(18:48):
look at financials, I'm notgoing to sit here and ask you to
sign a lease so I can get acommission paycheck, if it's not
something I believe in.
And so I think those are acouple of things that I really
learned and took away from thatexperience.
Trent Werner (19:02):
And when it comes to, you know, bringing a tenant
to an owner or an asset manager,for example, what are some
things that you're looking at,whether it was from your own
investment or from other dealsthat you've done? What are
things that you're looking at inthe tenant to feel confident to
tell the owner that they'regoing to be a good fit?
Caleb David (19:20):
Yeah, obviously, can look at financials, You can
look at a business plan, you cansee how long they've been in
business. Always go and checkthe Secretary of State website
to make sure they're in goodstanding. If they're not, that's
a little bit of a red flag forme. And so I think there's
little tools like that that youcan do, but also if they have a
reference from a previouslandlord, that's important to
(19:41):
take a look at. But some of itis just gut, you know, and we're
always gonna look at financialsthough.
We're always gonna look athistory. I look at Google
reviews, because do I want atenant in my building that's
getting trashed left and rightand it's gonna end up leaving my
building empty because they justcan't keep up with all the bad
(20:02):
press. So those are some thingsI look at. And I also work
really closely with our localSBDC, the Small Business
Development Corporation. Andwhether it's a tenant I'm
representing or someone that'scoming to a building that I
represent, if they're not ready,they don't have a business plan,
they don't have the rightresources, then I'm going to set
them somewhere where they canget that so that they can with
(20:24):
confidence, come back when thetime is right and be a great
tenant.
Trent Werner (20:30):
And I'm assuming so I'm I'm a residential small
multifamily broker. I'm, youknow, I'm definitely not a
commercial broker by any means.But there's got to be some
difference between a smallercompany or startup company, for
example, versus, you know, anational brand or international
brand, for example. What are thebiggest differences when you're
(20:51):
doing a tenant rep deal thatyou're seeing aside from just
finances and brand awareness?Are there, you know, is there
more emotion with a startup andmom and pop versus the big box?
Caleb David (21:04):
I mean, it depends on the person, right? I think,
you know, I just got a leasesigned this morning up in
Golden, Colorado with a clientwho we've been working on trying
to find a space for six months.It's her first time going into
business for herself. However,she's managed these kickboxing
gyms for the last eight years,and she's got a business degree,
and she read the lease line byline. And so that is somebody
(21:29):
that I'm like, all right, yes, Ihave full confidence that she's
going to be incrediblysuccessful.
The other call I got today wassomeone whose restaurant, they
got evicted from the restaurantthat they had because of all of
these different hail issues thathappened over the last year. And
now she's like, this is mypassion, but I've lost, I don't
have any money. We're about tolose our house and my in laws
(21:51):
are about to lose their house.And so two complete different
minds is where she's like, Iwant to do this. And me as a
broker, I want to help.
And I feel that her business hasbeen stolen from her because of
how the landlord handled thedamage in the property. But I
can't go to a landlord and say,Oh yeah, it's going be fine.
(22:12):
Everything's going to be fine.It has to be, No, here's the
story. And I think that'simportant in commercial real
estate is to tell the story foryour tenant and see if that
story lines up between thelandlord and the tenant.
So that's very different,financing is very different, it
takes longer to get financing,but there's also more resources
available, whether it be if it'sa women's owned business, there
(22:35):
could be some grants available.If you're a minority owned
business, there could be grantsavailable. So for me as a
broker, I feel like my job isnot to just be like, hey, let's
go find you something. It'slike, no, let's find the best
opportunity and let's get youconnected with all of the right
people that can help youfinancially get to the place
where in three years when I cometo visit you, you're still
(22:58):
smiling.
Trent Werner (22:59):
Right. And Caleb, how how have, you know, the the
behemoths like Amazon and, youknow, all the other companies,
have those impacted your localmarket if they have impacted
them?
Caleb David (23:12):
They absolutely have. And when I first started
the market, it was the marijuanaindustry that was the major
factor. Every other phone callyou got was I need a warehouse I
need to grow. That is long sincegone and all those guys have all
been eaten up by all the bigguys. But we work closely with
our chamber and EDC.
And so when Amazon came, they'relike, hey, we want to build a
(23:33):
two, four million square footlocation by the airport, we'd
see that come through. I didn'twork with them specifically on
any of those deals, but some ofthe bigger ones, whether it be a
defense contractor, of course,we're huge military as well. We
have Space Command in ColoradoSprings. So those big guys
(23:53):
definitely do play a big part,but typically have people that
they've worked with for theirexpansions throughout the
country. And so, and I tellpeople all the time, doing a
lease for 1,000 square feet canbe just as much work and hassle
as a deal where you get paid$100,000 on a commission.
(24:16):
So it just depends on who you'redealing with and what their
personalities are. I woulddefinitely say there's not as
much emotion as there would beon the residential side. Because
for the most part, people arelooking for facts. Does the
floor plan work? How much tenantimprovements will I be given?
Do the numbers make sense? Butthen there are situations where
I dealt with a zoom call todayof a lease I got signed back in
(24:39):
the fall, where it's a nonprofitthat does really hard work. They
didn't have an attorney previewtheir lease as I suggested. And
now there's misunderstanding.And so now there's a lot of
emotion happening.
Deal's been done for months, butwe're still dealing with the
after effects. And we try not tojust bail on our clients. You
(24:59):
know, we're like the deal'sdone. Yes, we get it. But let us
walk you through to the end.
Trent Werner (25:05):
Yeah, I mean, it makes perfect sense. Have there
been have there been anypositive or, I guess, trickle
down impacts being in the marketwhere there is big military and
defense contracts and Amazon andall these big companies, has
there been any positive trickledown effects from that size
business or industry being inColorado Springs for some of
(25:26):
your smaller tenants?
Caleb David (25:27):
Yeah, absolutely. Because we have I actually had a
guy who ran a Jimmy John'sfranchise, but his full time job
was as a defense contractor. SoI represented him on a couple of
deals for his Jimmy John'slocations. And we just built a
relationship. Then one day hecalled me and he was like, Oh,
we just are getting a newcontract.
(25:47):
Can you help us find officespace? And so we were able to do
that about three years ago. Andhe's now since come back and
said, Hey, we're about to getawarded potentially a massive
project and I might need 50,000to 60,000 square feet. So that
hasn't materialized yet. But Ithink people remember how you
treat them, you know, and Ithink if you remain
(26:09):
professional, if you don't know,if I don't know the answer to
something, I'm gonna say, youknow what, let me find out.
I'm not going to pretend likeI've got it all figured out.
Defense contractors are not myspecialty. But because of that
working relationship and trust,we've been able to get at least
one five year lease from thatone, and potentially another
very large one later on thisyear.
Trent Werner (26:31):
And that goes to show that doing good business,
serving your clients properly isgoing to pay off for all parties
in the future.
Caleb David (26:39):
It's harder work, but you know what? It's the
right thing to do. And I think,you know, it it all comes back
around. So, you know, there'sbeen times where I've walked
away from chunks of money,because it violated the values
that I had. And I was like,yeah, it's not worth it.
Trent Werner (26:55):
Absolutely. Well, Caleb, where can people hear
more from you, connect with you,or if they're looking for space
in Colorado Springs, I guessAbsolutely. Get in touch with
you.
Caleb David (27:05):
Yeah, so they can go to our website, which is just
www.davidcommercial.com orfollow me. I do more updates on
Instagram than anything else. Soit's just
instagram.com/calipdavid. Samewith LinkedIn. And you can also
follow me, I'm newly on TikTok,and I'm not that techie.
But we're trying out this newtechnology, for me at least, and
(27:25):
that is calob25david. And thengo to our website, look around
if you guys have questions aboutwhether it be an investment or
it's about your lease or you'reanywhere in Colorado or you're
just somebody curious a brokeror someone who wants to get into
the industry, I I would love toshare any knowledge that I have
and see what we can do to be aresource to your listeners.
Trent Werner (27:47):
Very nice. Thank you so much, Caleb. I appreciate
your time and sharing about yourpersonal investment deal in
Colorado as well as yourbrokerage business.
Caleb David (27:56):
Thank you very much. Great to have you, and
thanks for the insights that youbrought to my attention.
Intro speaker (28:00):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
Real Estate ProfessionalsInvesting Podcast on WIN, your
community of investing knowledgefor growth. We hope that this
episode has increased yourknowledge and added value to
your path to freedom. If youwould, please take a second to
rate us so that we can get moregreat investors to interview. If
you or someone that you knowwants to be on, please visit
(28:21):
westsideinvestors.com and fillout our form to be on the show.
Thank you again, and enjoy yourday.
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