November 28, 2023 • 30 mins
Scouting body disposal sites, investigating obscure poisons, and computing royalty payments with Donna Andrews, the mystery novelist behind the Meg Langslow series. How do you make a living as a mystery novelist? And could Tylenol be a murder weapon?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan Heath (00:00):
Mystery novelists work in perhaps the only
profession in which people arepaid to come up with ingenious
ways to kill people.
And while that may sound kindof fun, if your job is to kill
two or three fictionalcharacters a year, every year,
it can become a challenge tokeep things fresh and original.
So when a mystery novelistmeets a welder, for example,
(00:24):
they might ask some strangequestions.
Donna Andrews (00:26):
They want to know about the welder so they can
figure out if there's a way tokill people with it.
Now we're always looking forunique murder methods, motives
and body disposal sites.
Dan Heath (00:36):
It's a peculiar lens to see the world, isn't it?
Donna Andrews (00:38):
It's an occupational hazard.
Dan Heath (00:41):
Donna Andrews has been writing creative, funny
mystery novels for more than 20years.
I love the idea that you meetsome new character in some
peculiar profession and yourfirst thought is like how could
that person be killed or killsomeone else in a creative and
fresh way?
Donna Andrews (00:58):
Yes, or what unique motives would they have
for a crime?
What reason that I haven'tsuspected yet would they have
for knocking someone off?
When you go into a situation,you start thinking what are the
lines of alliance and tensionhere?
(01:19):
And since I write humorousmysteries, I'm always looking
for what's funny and what'sdeadly here - s ometimes in the
same thing.
Dan Heath (01:28):
And Donna is not the only mystery writer with an
insatiable need for plot ideas.
Donna Andrews (01:33):
Well, I mean, it is rather amusing when you're
sitting with a group of mysterywriters and something amusing
happens and you all look at eachother and if you're polite, you
say, is anyone going to usethat?
Because if you're not, I am,and if you're not polite, you
just say dips.
Dan Heath (01:51):
I'm Dan Heath.
On each episode of "What It'sLike to Be.
", we walk in the shoes ofsomeone from a different
profession a forensic accountant, a couples therapist, a TV
meteorologist.
What do they spend their daydoing?
What does it take to be good attheir job?
What frustrates them about it?
On today's show, we asked DonnaAndrews what's it like to be a
(02:13):
mystery novelist?
Donna Andrews (02:21):
If the only person in a book who ever lied
was the killer, you'd have ashort story.
A lot of the fun from a mysterybook arises from all the
different people who are lyingabout something.
They aren't the killer, butthey have something they don't
want to come to light.
It could be another equallydastardly crime, or it could
(02:43):
just be that your alibi wasyou're off having a facelift and
you don't want to admit it.
I mean, we all have secrets.
Most of our secrets are nothomicidal, so we're always
looking for ways that we cancomplicate our fictional
detective lives by having morethan one secret going on in a
book, which can be more than onecrime.
(03:04):
Or it could just be people whowant to hide embarrassing stuff.
Dan Heath (03:10):
And do you ever?
I hate to out you in publichere, but do you ever use your
friends' dramas or personalitiesin your books?
Donna Andrews (03:19):
Oh, yes, If they're your friends, you
usually say, oh my God, that washorrible.
What happened to you?
Can I use that in a book?
I had a friend who did one ofthe genealogy forensic DNA
things.
She had her DNA tested and sometime later she was contacted by
someone who turned out to beher half sister.
(03:40):
Her father had not had anothermarriage.
This was a half sister who wasolder than her but not as old as
her brother.
This was a little bit of ashock and I contacted her and I
said "this is a great idea for aplot.
Would you mind if I use it"?
And she said absolutely not.
Go use it.
Dan Heath (04:01):
From what I understand, you're working right
now on your 38th mystery novel.
Is that right?
Donna Andrews (04:07):
I'm working on the 34th book in my current
series, which features anornamental blacksmith who
usually gets involved in a crimewhen one of her friends or
family is in trouble.
They're a suspect or they mightbe the next victim.
My characters spend all theirtime taking evidence to the cops
and then end up gettingaccosted by the bad guy anyway
(04:30):
usually.
So yeah, and I had another fourbooks in a series about an
artificial intelligence livingin a computer, kind of like Hal,
but nice and turn detective.
Did you write today?
I'm not a morning person, so Ihave written maybe a page.
Today, I will be writing a lotmore later.
Dan Heath (04:49):
So take me back in time before you started the page
today.
How did you scope what youwanted to accomplish today?
Did you know it was a certainscene, or was it one bullet
point from an outline you had toflesh out?
Or what did you have as theinput into what you did today?
Donna Andrews (05:07):
Well, I don't know whether I'm unique or weird
, but I don't know of a lot ofwriters use this method,
although I'm converting a few toit.
I look at my spreadsheet.
The first thing I do is I openup my spreadsheet.
Dan Heath (05:18):
You have a spreadsheet.
Donna Andrews (05:19):
I have a spreadsheet.
As soon as I know what mydeadline is and I know
approximately how many words Ihave, I work back and say, okay,
I'd like to have at least amonth to polish and edit and
everything before I turn it in.
So I set, in addition to mypublisher's deadline, I have my
deadline, which is to finish theday before I have to turn it in
, and then I figure out if I'mreally on my game.
(05:41):
I set a nice doable quota forevery weekday and I take the
weekends off.
Dan Heath (05:46):
And what is the quota ?
Donna Andrews (05:48):
It varies depending on how frantic I am,
and my favorite quota issomething like four pages a day,
Monday through Friday.
Dan Heath (05:54):
And in terms of just sheer words, what does that
represent?
Four pages.
Donna Andrews (05:58):
A page is 250 words, so that's like a thousand
words.
I'm often going at six pages,which is 1,500 words, which is
harder than it sounds.
I mean it's like only 1,500words.
Dan Heath (06:10):
Yeah, but you got to plot them.
It sounds plenty hard.
Donna Andrews (06:14):
So when I wake up in the morning I open up my
spreadsheet and I make sure Iknow how many words I have and
then I open up whatever the lastpiece I was on.
Sometimes I stopped in themiddle of a scene and I just
pick it up and go on.
I'm not sure that was hemmingaway.
Several people have recommendedthe best way to get yourself
writing in the morning is toleave something unfinished.
(06:35):
Leave a sentence unfinished,and you know how to finish that
sentence.
Dan Heath (06:39):
So do you approach it like I've got to have a
thousand words a day on average,and some days it might be 2000
and some days it's zero?
Or are you kind of relentlessabout no, every day it's a
thousand.
Donna Andrews (06:51):
I'm really good at making myself hit the quota
because it feels like a gooddiscipline.
Say, my quota is six pages aday and I wrote seven yesterday.
I could forgive myself and onlywrite five today.
But then you start saying ohwell, I've only written five
today, but I can catch up to.
You know, the great thing abouthaving a system of some sort?
(07:15):
You have the confidence thatyou know, if you just do your
quota every day, you'll come outof the end of the draft period
with a complete book.
It may be a pretty rotten book,it may need a lot of work, but
as the saying goes, you can'tedit a blank page, you can edit
rotten, you can't editnonexistent.
Dan Heath (07:35):
And how long is a book of the kind that you write?
Donna Andrews (07:38):
My contract usually calls for approximately
80,000 words, which is about 300and some pages.
If I were writing thrillers,for example, they usually come
up more like 100,000 words,sometimes 125,000.
If you look at a lot of lightcraft cosies, sometimes they go
as low as 60 or 70,000 words.
Dan Heath (08:00):
Can you give me a sense of the taxonomy of the
mystery world?
Like what are the majorsub-genres that exist?
Donna Andrews (08:10):
The major division is sort of like between
what we call the hard-boiledand thrillers and the lighter,
sometimes called cozy mysteries.
Dan Heath (08:21):
So there's two primary what do you call them?
Domains, genres.
Donna Andrews (08:25):
Well, the problem is that there's not two primary
, that's one of the bigdivisions.
It's kind of like two ends of aspectrum.
On the one end you have booksthat tend to be more violent.
They have more on-page violence, they tend to have a law
enforcement professional or aspy professional, as opposed to
books on the lighter end of thespectrum, which may have an
(08:45):
amateur sleuth rather than aprofessional, and by
professional it can be a policeofficer, a detective, a forensic
person, a spy.
There's a sub-genre in thelighter end of the spectrum
called craft cosies, where youhave someone whose profession is
(09:06):
baker, basket maker, whatever,and you have a lot about that
craft.
One of the divides is betweenclassic mysteries and thrillers.
The difference there is in amystery, you're trying to figure
out who done it.
A murderer is committed, and youdon't know who did it and the
struggle is to find that person.
(09:26):
Agatha Christie, AgathaChristie, yeah.
And whereas in a thriller, youknow who done it or who is
planning on doing it.
A book in which you have athreat to drop a nuclear device
on Washington and the hero orheroine has to find the person
who's going to do it and stopthem before they do it that
would be a thriller plot, apolice procedural is.
(09:49):
You know, in an amateur sleuthbook, which is what I usually
write, there's a murder thathappens within the circle of
friends and family of theprotagonist and he or she either
assists the police or runsparallel to the police or tries
to stop the police if they thinkthe police have fastened on the
wrong suspect.
Dan Heath (10:09):
So, like with the amateur sleuth-style books, like
, what are the aspects of thestructure that you can't mess
with?
Like with a romance novel, youknow the two lovebirds have to
end up together at the end.
You can mess around with thestructure, you can have fun with
it, but that's non-negotiable,like what's non-negotiable for
your kind of books.
Donna Andrews (10:26):
I think non-negotiable is to play fair
with your reader.
You know it's generallyconsidered bad form in the
mystery world, although we getaway with it sometimes.
If you pull a suspect out ofleft field in the last few pages
of the book, aha, it was thebutler.
That's the worst.
I didn't know they had a butler, but the butler did it Right.
The finest form of the artyou're looking at it from both
(10:51):
the appreciation as a reader ofmysteries, which I am, and as a
practitioner of them is to havethe killer him or her, to have
them around from the firstchapter.
And yet when the reader gets tothe end, the reader says oh my
God, I never guessed it was them.
You know, but in my line ofwhatever, I don't care if you
(11:14):
guessed the killer, as long asyou enjoyed the you know.
Aha, I knew it was him, Iguessed it.
That makes the reader feelsmart.
Dan Heath (11:21):
So, given the kind of books you write, you know,
involving murder mysteries, Iwas imagining you must have a
colorful search engine history.
I hope what are some of theprompts we might find if we did
a check on your browser.
Donna Andrews (11:36):
Yeah, you'll find all the common poisons strict
need, arsenic.
You'll find unusual poisons,toxic mushrooms.
I had a friend, Ellen Crosby,who writes a series about a
woman who runs a vineyard andshe had picked a really cool
poison and she wanted to findout more information about this
(11:57):
chemical.
It was a chemical that had beenoutlawed in the wine making
world, a pesticide so toxic theydon't let you use it anymore,
but a lot of establishedwineries probably have some of
it on a shelf back somewhere.
So she ended up calling the CDCto try to find out some more
information and she sent themher list of questions and she
(12:19):
was hoping to talk to someonewho knew about this chemical and
what led up to the banning ofit and what the effects were.
All kind of you know, get peopletalking, you find out things
you didn't even know enough toask.
She got this woman from the CDC, caller her back.
Here are the answers to yourquestions question number one:
yes; q uestion number two (12:37):
no; question number three
know.
A nd at this point I thinkshe's "well, I was hoping I
could talk to someone and shesaid look, you're lucky that the
first guy who saw yourquestions wanted to turn you
over to Homeland Security?
That's a possible terrorist.
Dan Heath (12:58):
Hi, Dan, here Just a quick time out for a casting
call.
We want your help in findingpotential guests from these
three professions nurses, callcenter employees and insurance
sales people Could be any kindof nurse, any kind of call
center, any flavor of insurance.
At the heart of what we'relooking for is two things.
(13:20):
Number one they like their joband they've been doing it a
while.
And two, they're a good talker,a good storyteller.
Do you know somebody like that?
If so, we want to hear aboutthem.
Reach out to jobs at whatit'slike.
com.
Thanks, folks.
Have you ever come up with suchan unusual or clever way to kill
(13:43):
off a character that you hadsort of like a fist pumping
moment?
Donna Andrews (13:48):
Well, I did manage to kill someone with a
mouse, a computer mouse.
Dan Heath (13:53):
Oh, tell me more.
Donna Andrews (13:54):
It all arose out of the fact that the day job I
had quit by that point, but Iremembered the day job had this
installed an automated mail cartin our building.
It was like a cart that ran Ithink it was an infrared trail
that they laid around each floor.
They would come up, put themail in the cart and then this
cart would run around and stopat each secretary's desk so that
(14:17):
they could take out the mailfor their department.
And for the first couple ofweeks that we had this thing,
everyone was like putting weirdthings on top of it, decorating
it seasonally.
You know, it had a scary faceon it for Halloween.
It had a little tree on it forChristmas.
I immediately began figuringout how we could kill someone
with that mail cart.
Dan Heath (14:36):
And that's when you knew you were a mystery writer.
Donna Andrews (14:38):
Yeah, I didn't end up killing with the mail
cart, but my fourth book,Crouching Buzzard, Leaping Loon.
It started off with my heroinefilling in at her brother's
company, at the front desk, andthere's a guy who's been riding
around on the mail cart withfake blood, with a rubber knife
stuck to his chest and fakeblood making dying noises.
(15:01):
He's been doing this allmorning and everyone is just
really getting tired of it.
And so everyone was just, ohGod, just don't look at him and
maybe he'll stop.
Which is why nobody noticedwhen someone converted him from
a fake corpse to a real one bystrangling him with a mouse.
Dan Heath (15:17):
Strangling him with the mouse.
Donna Andrews (15:19):
The cord.
If he'd gone wireless he wouldstill be alive.
I love it Strangling with themouse cord.
Yes, so I mean everything is aweapon to us, and I did one of
the most popular features.
There's a lady named Lucy Zahre.
We all call her the poison lady.
Her day job is as apharmacologist for a hospital,
(15:39):
but her hobby is poisons.
She goes around like yard salesand junk shops and sees how
many old poisons she can collect, Because there's a lot of
patent medicines from pastdecades, not that long ago, I
mean even the 20s.
I think A lot of old medicinebottles in junk shops and
(15:59):
antique and yard sales mightactually have medicines with
arsenic or strychnine or thingsin them.
Dan Heath (16:05):
I wonder what it would feel like to be her spouse
.
That's sort of like a high wireact, you know.
Donna Andrews (16:11):
She's pretty public about the hobby so I
don't think her friends worry,but she will give talks at
various and she studies allpoisons.
She was the one who made meaware of the danger of drinking
after Tylenol, because Tylenolis a liver killer and if you
pair it with alcohol it's evenmore toxic.
Tylenol is an interesting drug,according to her, because the
(16:33):
difference in the safe clinicaltherapeutic dose and the part
that causes either injury ordeath is a lot closer than with
a lot more dangerous soundingdrugs.
Dan Heath (16:43):
This sounds like it could be shaping up as a plot of
a future book.
Donna Andrews (16:47):
People have done it.
I think I can't offhand thinkof someone who's killed someone
with Tylenol in a book, but it'sdoable and I'm sure it has been
done.
Dan Heath (16:54):
You could probably get Advil to sponsor it! On top
of everything, has writingmysteries ruined you on reading
mysteries?
Donna Andrews (17:03):
Yes and no.
It's not writing mysteries thatspoiled my reading.
It's writing period, becauseremember the last time you just
totally got into a book and whenyou weren't reading it you were
walking around thinking aboutit and maybe you put it down.
You could read some more, butyou put it down because you want
to savor it and walk aroundthinking about what could happen
(17:24):
next or what's just happened.
You're walking around living inthe book for a while and that's
a really wonderful experience.
But if I'm writing, I need tobe walking around in my own book
.
I mean, if I'm reading a reallygood book and I'm trying to
write, I hope, a really goodbook, I can't live in both of
them.
When I'm working on a plot, Ineed to let my brain work on my
(17:47):
own book.
I need to let it do that kindof almost subconscious noodling
on the plot that comes up withgood ideas, which means either I
don't do my own book Justice,or I don't really immerse myself
and get full enjoyment of areally good book.
Dan Heath (18:02):
That's really interesting that you don't want
another similar book to kind ofsteal your mind.
Share in a way.
Donna Andrews (18:09):
Well, it's not.
What if I were that easilyinfluenced that I would start
writing?
Like you know, I would readsome of the best plotters and
prose stylists I could and letthem influence the devil out of
me.
But it's more that I need to bedoing my work and not caught up
in theirs, which it really,especially since I'm doing two
(18:30):
books a year in a lot of recentyears.
It really cuts into my readingtime.
Dan Heath (18:35):
Donna, let's talk about the economics of the
business for a moment.
Talk a little bit about how youget paid as a mystery novelist.
Like, obviously you're not onsalary with the publisher.
How does it work?
Donna Andrews (18:46):
Right the way it works, and it varies depending
on the kind of publisher youhave.
If you're working with a largetraditional publisher, what
usually happens is that when yousign your contract you get
what's known as an advance,which is short for advance
against royalties.
So if, for example, you sign acontract with your publisher
(19:08):
that they will pay you $30,000for your book, what usually
happens is that you get, say,$10,000 up front when you sign
the contract.
That's first part of theroyalty.
Then when you turn in the bookyou get the second $10,000.
And when the book is actuallypublished you get the third
$10,000.
(19:28):
At that point you don't get anymore money from the publisher
for that book until your bookhas earned enough money that you
would have gotten $30,000.
If you're sure the book adds upto $30,000.
Dan Heath (19:43):
So the writer gets a percentage of the books.
Donna Andrews (19:46):
The writer gets a percentage of every book sold,
and usually it's somethingaround 6%, 5% might be as high
as 10%.
It varies with the publisher,but say for round numbers that
it's 10% of the cover price.
If you have a book that sellsfor $15, and you get a 10%
royalty, you get $1.50 for everybook sold, but you don't get
(20:08):
any more on top of your advance.
If you get an advance, untilyour book has sold enough copies
that you would have earned thatamount.
Dan Heath (20:14):
So, with your $30,000 advance example, just to pay
this off at $1.50 a book, you'vegot to sell 20,000 books.
So it's the 20,000 and firstbook where you finally start
getting royalties.
Donna Andrews (20:28):
Yeah, the 20,000 and first book you start getting
royalties,
Dan Heath (20:36):
And how common or uncommon is it for you to earn
out an advance, you being ageneric mystery writer, not
necessarily you personally.
Donna Andrews (20:46):
I think on a small advance.
It's not uncommon, but it's notguaranteed.
The $30,000 advance that Isuggested, that's a good advance
.
You're more apt to have closerto a $3,000 or $300.
Dan Heath (21:03):
$3,000 for what might take you a half year or a year
to write.
How is that sustainable?
Donna Andrews (21:10):
Well, if you went into this to earn a living, you
picked the wrong profession.
Hmm, most mystery writers, mostwriters in general, most
writers do not necessarily earna living from what they do.
I mean, of the people who starta book, they say, only 10% ever
finish it.
I don't know what percentage ofpeople who finish a book
(21:30):
succeed in getting it published.
It's higher now that you canalso self-publish.
But of the 10% of all thepeople who start a book, who
finish it, only a percentage endup getting it published and
it's a very small percentage ofworking writers who actually
earn a living from it.
The most common scenario you'veseen and this is with people who
(21:50):
are regularly writing books andselling them, who are getting
good reviews, who may be gettingnominated for winning awards,
but they may not be earning aliving from their book, because
just because you have a hit oneyear doesn't mean the next book
is gonna sell as well.
It tends to sell better.
I mean, one of the thingsthat's good about a series is it
(22:12):
tends to have a more reliablesales pattern.
If you write standalone, I lovethat character oh, this is not
about that character, I'm notgonna buy it.
Whereas with a series, peoplelove the series.
They will continue buying theseries.
Dan Heath (22:25):
So, given the somewhat stark odds, like if a
young person asks you about thiscareer, I mean, do you
recommend it or do you recommendagainst it?
Donna Andrews (22:35):
I recommend it if they're passionate enough about
it that they understand thatthey may have to support
themselves by doing somethingelse.
So I recommend find somethingelse you really like doing and
do that so you can afford to doyour art.
But it is tough because you aresending them on a trail that is
not gonna make them rich.
Unless they're, Stephen Kingprobably can afford anything he
(22:57):
wants.
Stephen King is a rarity, so Iwouldn't discourage someone, but
I try to make them understandthis is how it really works.
Do not expect that you writesomething and turn it in and
your editor fixes anythingthat's wrong with it and then it
becomes a best seller.
Dan Heath (23:12):
That's not what happens, and what about once
your book is published, likewhat role as the author do you
have in the marketing of thebook?
Donna Andrews (23:23):
One of the things that is true of most publishers
these days.
I mean, I don't know manypeople whose publisher picks
them up and takes them on awhirlwind tour of 20 cities to
promote their book, books themon the Today Show.
It just doesn't happen veryoften.
Usually the people who get thatare the people who would sell
books without it.
It's kind of up to you to do acertain amount of marketing and
(23:44):
there's varied ways that you dothat.
I mean, one of the good ways isto appear at mystery
conventions.
I remember someone wascalculating I didn't sell enough
books at this convention tomake it worth going.
That's not why you go.
You go to meet what I call"noisy readers.
Those are readers who if theylove a book, they tell the world
about them.
Dan Heath (24:04):
I love that idea of noisy readers.
That's a great phrase.
Donna Andrews (24:07):
Yeah, I mean you hear people like I'm on a fixed
income, I get your books in thelibrary.
That's okay, be a noisy reader.
I mean I know people who havenever bought a book of mine,
ever, but they've sold who knowshow many books because they
will tell people how much theylove them.
Dan Heath (24:23):
But it sounds like that outreach is on your
shoulders.
There's not like a bigmarketing juggernaut working for
you.
Donna Andrews (24:30):
They do some marketing.
The problem is that they can'tafford in today's market.
Frankly, publishers can'tafford to do a lot of marketing
for everybody.
They tend to focus marketing onthe books they think they can
push onto a best seller list.
But you know what being with atraditional publisher does get
you?
It gets you into the bookstores.
It gets you into the bookstores.
(24:53):
So when people walk in and lookat the new book table, your
book might be there.
When they wander down theshelves, your book is there.
If you're with a smallerpublisher, they may or may not
have a good distribution to thebookstores.
If you're self-publishing, youhave very great difficulty
getting yourself into anythingother than a few local
(25:13):
bookstores or genre bookstores.
Dan Heath (25:16):
So, Donna, we always have a lightning round of
questions for our guests at theend.
Let me fire away at you here.
First up.
What's a word or phrase thatonly someone from your
profession would be likely toknow, and what does it mean?
Donna Andrews (25:30):
How about pantser ?
Okay, pancer.
A pancer is someone who writesby the seat of their pants, as
opposed to a plotter who writeswith an outliner synopsis.
Ah, and you are.
I used to be a total plotterand now I'm a plotter with
pancer elements.
It's not an either/or.
S ome people (25:49):
"?
Oh, I'm totally a pancer.
Most people fall somewhere on acontinuum.
There are people who sit downand just start writing and let
the plot evolve and then have todo a lot more revision.
I will never be one of them.
I have to know where I'm going.
Dan Heath (26:05):
Who is the most famous mystery novelist, real or
fictional?
Donna Andrews (26:09):
Say it's gotta be Agatha Christie.
I'd s ay Edgar Allen Poe was arunner up, but people don't tend
to think of him.
As you know, he was before her,and he's the one that the Edgar
Awards are named after.
Dan Heath (26:19):
Am I right that Agatha Christie has sold more
books than anyone?
Basically?
Donna Andrews (26:24):
If she hasn't sold more books than anyone, s
he's one of the people that isup there Agatha Christie and the
Bible and she's definitely ofan influence.
Dan Heath (26:34):
All right ready for the final question.
Okay, what is the highestcompliment a mystery novelist
can receive?
Donna Andrews (26:43):
I think it's probably.
Oh my God, I couldn't put itdown.
I stayed up until four in themorning reading your book.
When's the next one coming out?
Yeah, I tell you.
What isn't the highestcompliment, though?
If you ever hear someone saythis book transcends the genre,
that just sets our teeth on edge.
You know why.
If we thought this genre wewere writing in was something
(27:03):
that needed to be transcended,why would we be writing in it?
We write mysteries because welove mysteries and because we
think a well-written mysterytranscends a lot.
Is a well-written mysterysomehow lesser than a literary
novel?
You know, that's genre snobbery.
If we didn't love mysteries, wewouldn't be writing them.
Dan Heath (27:29):
Donna Andrews is the author of more than three dozen
humorous mystery novels,including Murder with Peacocks,
some Like it Hawk and Let itCrow, Let it Crow, let it Crow.
You can find more books at herwebsite, donnaandrewscom.
I've been thinking about theinherent tension in Donna
(27:56):
Andrews' job.
Like, on the one hand, her corejob is to breathe life into
funny, distinctive characters asthey deal with crazy situations
.
All of it made up in her head,you know, pure imagination.
But then if you zoom into theactual day-to-day mechanics of
the job, it's got a bit of aworkman-like or, I guess,
(28:20):
workwoman-like vibe to it.
You know Donna wakes up andit's time to make the donuts.
She's got to crank out athousand words before she can
clock out for the day.
Stephen King wrote a great bookyears ago called On Writing, and
one of his quotes was: "Amateurs sit and wait for (28:34):
undefined
inspiration.
The rest of us just get up andgo to work.
And that's what Donna does getup and go to work, open document
, insert words, and then, whileshe's away from the computer,
she's mulling the story.
You know, remember her tellingme she didn't read great books
(28:57):
while she's writing, so she candevote her brain cycles to her
own work and then she's talkingwith other writers, getting them
to noodle with her on problemsin the story she's writing.
It's almost like she's buildingup her mental inventory of
ideas for the next day's workshift.
I love that blend of unbridledimagination plus brass, tax
(29:22):
operations and folks.
That's what it's like to be amystery novelist.
If you're enjoying the show,would you be a noisy listener
for us?
Tell somebody about us that youthink might like what we're
doing and, by the way, a shoutout to all our new listeners on
Cast Box - welcome to the family.
Thanks for listening.
I'm Dan Heath.
(29:43):
The show is produced by MattPurdy, and I've got to leave you
with one more quote from thatStephen King book: ".
The road to hell is paved withadverbs Love that.
See you next time.
Mystery novelists work in perhaps the only
profession in which people arepaid to come up with ingenious
ways to kill people.
And while that may sound kindof fun, if your job is to kill
two or three fictionalcharacters a year, every year,
it can become a challenge tokeep things fresh and original.
So when a mystery novelistmeets a welder, for example,
(00:24):
they might ask some strangequestions.
Donna Andrews (00:26):
They want to know about the welder so they can
figure out if there's a way tokill people with it.
Now we're always looking forunique murder methods, motives
and body disposal sites.
Dan Heath (00:36):
It's a peculiar lens to see the world, isn't it?
Donna Andrews (00:38):
It's an occupational hazard.
Dan Heath (00:41):
Donna Andrews has been writing creative, funny
mystery novels for more than 20years.
I love the idea that you meetsome new character in some
peculiar profession and yourfirst thought is like how could
that person be killed or killsomeone else in a creative and
fresh way?
Donna Andrews (00:58):
Yes, or what unique motives would they have
for a crime?
What reason that I haven'tsuspected yet would they have
for knocking someone off?
When you go into a situation,you start thinking what are the
lines of alliance and tensionhere?
(01:19):
And since I write humorousmysteries, I'm always looking
for what's funny and what'sdeadly here - s ometimes in the
same thing.
Dan Heath (01:28):
And Donna is not the only mystery writer with an
insatiable need for plot ideas.
Donna Andrews (01:33):
Well, I mean, it is rather amusing when you're
sitting with a group of mysterywriters and something amusing
happens and you all look at eachother and if you're polite, you
say, is anyone going to usethat?
Because if you're not, I am,and if you're not polite, you
just say dips.
Dan Heath (01:51):
I'm Dan Heath.
On each episode of "What It'sLike to Be.
", we walk in the shoes ofsomeone from a different
profession a forensic accountant, a couples therapist, a TV
meteorologist.
What do they spend their daydoing?
What does it take to be good attheir job?
What frustrates them about it?
On today's show, we asked DonnaAndrews what's it like to be a
(02:13):
mystery novelist?
Donna Andrews (02:21):
If the only person in a book who ever lied
was the killer, you'd have ashort story.
A lot of the fun from a mysterybook arises from all the
different people who are lyingabout something.
They aren't the killer, butthey have something they don't
want to come to light.
It could be another equallydastardly crime, or it could
(02:43):
just be that your alibi wasyou're off having a facelift and
you don't want to admit it.
I mean, we all have secrets.
Most of our secrets are nothomicidal, so we're always
looking for ways that we cancomplicate our fictional
detective lives by having morethan one secret going on in a
book, which can be more than onecrime.
(03:04):
Or it could just be people whowant to hide embarrassing stuff.
Dan Heath (03:10):
And do you ever?
I hate to out you in publichere, but do you ever use your
friends' dramas or personalitiesin your books?
Donna Andrews (03:19):
Oh, yes, If they're your friends, you
usually say, oh my God, that washorrible.
What happened to you?
Can I use that in a book?
I had a friend who did one ofthe genealogy forensic DNA
things.
She had her DNA tested and sometime later she was contacted by
someone who turned out to beher half sister.
(03:40):
Her father had not had anothermarriage.
This was a half sister who wasolder than her but not as old as
her brother.
This was a little bit of ashock and I contacted her and I
said "this is a great idea for aplot.
Would you mind if I use it"?
And she said absolutely not.
Go use it.
Dan Heath (04:01):
From what I understand, you're working right
now on your 38th mystery novel.
Is that right?
Donna Andrews (04:07):
I'm working on the 34th book in my current
series, which features anornamental blacksmith who
usually gets involved in a crimewhen one of her friends or
family is in trouble.
They're a suspect or they mightbe the next victim.
My characters spend all theirtime taking evidence to the cops
and then end up gettingaccosted by the bad guy anyway
(04:30):
usually.
So yeah, and I had another fourbooks in a series about an
artificial intelligence livingin a computer, kind of like Hal,
but nice and turn detective.
Did you write today?
I'm not a morning person, so Ihave written maybe a page.
Today, I will be writing a lotmore later.
Dan Heath (04:49):
So take me back in time before you started the page
today.
How did you scope what youwanted to accomplish today?
Did you know it was a certainscene, or was it one bullet
point from an outline you had toflesh out?
Or what did you have as theinput into what you did today?
Donna Andrews (05:07):
Well, I don't know whether I'm unique or weird
, but I don't know of a lot ofwriters use this method,
although I'm converting a few toit.
I look at my spreadsheet.
The first thing I do is I openup my spreadsheet.
Dan Heath (05:18):
You have a spreadsheet.
Donna Andrews (05:19):
I have a spreadsheet.
As soon as I know what mydeadline is and I know
approximately how many words Ihave, I work back and say, okay,
I'd like to have at least amonth to polish and edit and
everything before I turn it in.
So I set, in addition to mypublisher's deadline, I have my
deadline, which is to finish theday before I have to turn it in
, and then I figure out if I'mreally on my game.
(05:41):
I set a nice doable quota forevery weekday and I take the
weekends off.
Dan Heath (05:46):
And what is the quota ?
Donna Andrews (05:48):
It varies depending on how frantic I am,
and my favorite quota issomething like four pages a day,
Monday through Friday.
Dan Heath (05:54):
And in terms of just sheer words, what does that
represent?
Four pages.
Donna Andrews (05:58):
A page is 250 words, so that's like a thousand
words.
I'm often going at six pages,which is 1,500 words, which is
harder than it sounds.
I mean it's like only 1,500words.
Dan Heath (06:10):
Yeah, but you got to plot them.
It sounds plenty hard.
Donna Andrews (06:14):
So when I wake up in the morning I open up my
spreadsheet and I make sure Iknow how many words I have and
then I open up whatever the lastpiece I was on.
Sometimes I stopped in themiddle of a scene and I just
pick it up and go on.
I'm not sure that was hemmingaway.
Several people have recommendedthe best way to get yourself
writing in the morning is toleave something unfinished.
(06:35):
Leave a sentence unfinished,and you know how to finish that
sentence.
Dan Heath (06:39):
So do you approach it like I've got to have a
thousand words a day on average,and some days it might be 2000
and some days it's zero?
Or are you kind of relentlessabout no, every day it's a
thousand.
Donna Andrews (06:51):
I'm really good at making myself hit the quota
because it feels like a gooddiscipline.
Say, my quota is six pages aday and I wrote seven yesterday.
I could forgive myself and onlywrite five today.
But then you start saying ohwell, I've only written five
today, but I can catch up to.
You know, the great thing abouthaving a system of some sort?
(07:15):
You have the confidence thatyou know, if you just do your
quota every day, you'll come outof the end of the draft period
with a complete book.
It may be a pretty rotten book,it may need a lot of work, but
as the saying goes, you can'tedit a blank page, you can edit
rotten, you can't editnonexistent.
Dan Heath (07:35):
And how long is a book of the kind that you write?
Donna Andrews (07:38):
My contract usually calls for approximately
80,000 words, which is about 300and some pages.
If I were writing thrillers,for example, they usually come
up more like 100,000 words,sometimes 125,000.
If you look at a lot of lightcraft cosies, sometimes they go
as low as 60 or 70,000 words.
Dan Heath (08:00):
Can you give me a sense of the taxonomy of the
mystery world?
Like what are the majorsub-genres that exist?
Donna Andrews (08:10):
The major division is sort of like between
what we call the hard-boiledand thrillers and the lighter,
sometimes called cozy mysteries.
Dan Heath (08:21):
So there's two primary what do you call them?
Domains, genres.
Donna Andrews (08:25):
Well, the problem is that there's not two primary
, that's one of the bigdivisions.
It's kind of like two ends of aspectrum.
On the one end you have booksthat tend to be more violent.
They have more on-page violence, they tend to have a law
enforcement professional or aspy professional, as opposed to
books on the lighter end of thespectrum, which may have an
(08:45):
amateur sleuth rather than aprofessional, and by
professional it can be a policeofficer, a detective, a forensic
person, a spy.
There's a sub-genre in thelighter end of the spectrum
called craft cosies, where youhave someone whose profession is
(09:06):
baker, basket maker, whatever,and you have a lot about that
craft.
One of the divides is betweenclassic mysteries and thrillers.
The difference there is in amystery, you're trying to figure
out who done it.
A murderer is committed, and youdon't know who did it and the
struggle is to find that person.
(09:26):
Agatha Christie, AgathaChristie, yeah.
And whereas in a thriller, youknow who done it or who is
planning on doing it.
A book in which you have athreat to drop a nuclear device
on Washington and the hero orheroine has to find the person
who's going to do it and stopthem before they do it that
would be a thriller plot, apolice procedural is.
(09:49):
You know, in an amateur sleuthbook, which is what I usually
write, there's a murder thathappens within the circle of
friends and family of theprotagonist and he or she either
assists the police or runsparallel to the police or tries
to stop the police if they thinkthe police have fastened on the
wrong suspect.
Dan Heath (10:09):
So, like with the amateur sleuth-style books, like
, what are the aspects of thestructure that you can't mess
with?
Like with a romance novel, youknow the two lovebirds have to
end up together at the end.
You can mess around with thestructure, you can have fun with
it, but that's non-negotiable,like what's non-negotiable for
your kind of books.
Donna Andrews (10:26):
I think non-negotiable is to play fair
with your reader.
You know it's generallyconsidered bad form in the
mystery world, although we getaway with it sometimes.
If you pull a suspect out ofleft field in the last few pages
of the book, aha, it was thebutler.
That's the worst.
I didn't know they had a butler, but the butler did it Right.
The finest form of the artyou're looking at it from both
(10:51):
the appreciation as a reader ofmysteries, which I am, and as a
practitioner of them is to havethe killer him or her, to have
them around from the firstchapter.
And yet when the reader gets tothe end, the reader says oh my
God, I never guessed it was them.
You know, but in my line ofwhatever, I don't care if you
(11:14):
guessed the killer, as long asyou enjoyed the you know.
Aha, I knew it was him, Iguessed it.
That makes the reader feelsmart.
Dan Heath (11:21):
So, given the kind of books you write, you know,
involving murder mysteries, Iwas imagining you must have a
colorful search engine history.
I hope what are some of theprompts we might find if we did
a check on your browser.
Donna Andrews (11:36):
Yeah, you'll find all the common poisons strict
need, arsenic.
You'll find unusual poisons,toxic mushrooms.
I had a friend, Ellen Crosby,who writes a series about a
woman who runs a vineyard andshe had picked a really cool
poison and she wanted to findout more information about this
(11:57):
chemical.
It was a chemical that had beenoutlawed in the wine making
world, a pesticide so toxic theydon't let you use it anymore,
but a lot of establishedwineries probably have some of
it on a shelf back somewhere.
So she ended up calling the CDCto try to find out some more
information and she sent themher list of questions and she
(12:19):
was hoping to talk to someonewho knew about this chemical and
what led up to the banning ofit and what the effects were.
All kind of you know, get peopletalking, you find out things
you didn't even know enough toask.
She got this woman from the CDC, caller her back.
Here are the answers to yourquestions question number one:
yes; q uestion number two (12:37):
no; question number three
know.
A nd at this point I thinkshe's "well, I was hoping I
could talk to someone and shesaid look, you're lucky that the
first guy who saw yourquestions wanted to turn you
over to Homeland Security?
That's a possible terrorist.
Dan Heath (12:58):
Hi, Dan, here Just a quick time out for a casting
call.
We want your help in findingpotential guests from these
three professions nurses, callcenter employees and insurance
sales people Could be any kindof nurse, any kind of call
center, any flavor of insurance.
At the heart of what we'relooking for is two things.
(13:20):
Number one they like their joband they've been doing it a
while.
And two, they're a good talker,a good storyteller.
Do you know somebody like that?
If so, we want to hear aboutthem.
Reach out to jobs at whatit'slike.
com.
Thanks, folks.
Have you ever come up with suchan unusual or clever way to kill
(13:43):
off a character that you hadsort of like a fist pumping
moment?
Donna Andrews (13:48):
Well, I did manage to kill someone with a
mouse, a computer mouse.
Dan Heath (13:53):
Oh, tell me more.
Donna Andrews (13:54):
It all arose out of the fact that the day job I
had quit by that point, but Iremembered the day job had this
installed an automated mail cartin our building.
It was like a cart that ran Ithink it was an infrared trail
that they laid around each floor.
They would come up, put themail in the cart and then this
cart would run around and stopat each secretary's desk so that
(14:17):
they could take out the mailfor their department.
And for the first couple ofweeks that we had this thing,
everyone was like putting weirdthings on top of it, decorating
it seasonally.
You know, it had a scary faceon it for Halloween.
It had a little tree on it forChristmas.
I immediately began figuringout how we could kill someone
with that mail cart.
Dan Heath (14:36):
And that's when you knew you were a mystery writer.
Donna Andrews (14:38):
Yeah, I didn't end up killing with the mail
cart, but my fourth book,Crouching Buzzard, Leaping Loon.
It started off with my heroinefilling in at her brother's
company, at the front desk, andthere's a guy who's been riding
around on the mail cart withfake blood, with a rubber knife
stuck to his chest and fakeblood making dying noises.
(15:01):
He's been doing this allmorning and everyone is just
really getting tired of it.
And so everyone was just, ohGod, just don't look at him and
maybe he'll stop.
Which is why nobody noticedwhen someone converted him from
a fake corpse to a real one bystrangling him with a mouse.
Dan Heath (15:17):
Strangling him with the mouse.
Donna Andrews (15:19):
The cord.
If he'd gone wireless he wouldstill be alive.
I love it Strangling with themouse cord.
Yes, so I mean everything is aweapon to us, and I did one of
the most popular features.
There's a lady named Lucy Zahre.
We all call her the poison lady.
Her day job is as apharmacologist for a hospital,
(15:39):
but her hobby is poisons.
She goes around like yard salesand junk shops and sees how
many old poisons she can collect, Because there's a lot of
patent medicines from pastdecades, not that long ago, I
mean even the 20s.
I think A lot of old medicinebottles in junk shops and
(15:59):
antique and yard sales mightactually have medicines with
arsenic or strychnine or thingsin them.
Dan Heath (16:05):
I wonder what it would feel like to be her spouse
.
That's sort of like a high wireact, you know.
Donna Andrews (16:11):
She's pretty public about the hobby so I
don't think her friends worry,but she will give talks at
various and she studies allpoisons.
She was the one who made meaware of the danger of drinking
after Tylenol, because Tylenolis a liver killer and if you
pair it with alcohol it's evenmore toxic.
Tylenol is an interesting drug,according to her, because the
(16:33):
difference in the safe clinicaltherapeutic dose and the part
that causes either injury ordeath is a lot closer than with
a lot more dangerous soundingdrugs.
Dan Heath (16:43):
This sounds like it could be shaping up as a plot of
a future book.
Donna Andrews (16:47):
People have done it.
I think I can't offhand thinkof someone who's killed someone
with Tylenol in a book, but it'sdoable and I'm sure it has been
done.
Dan Heath (16:54):
You could probably get Advil to sponsor it! On top
of everything, has writingmysteries ruined you on reading
mysteries?
Donna Andrews (17:03):
Yes and no.
It's not writing mysteries thatspoiled my reading.
It's writing period, becauseremember the last time you just
totally got into a book and whenyou weren't reading it you were
walking around thinking aboutit and maybe you put it down.
You could read some more, butyou put it down because you want
to savor it and walk aroundthinking about what could happen
(17:24):
next or what's just happened.
You're walking around living inthe book for a while and that's
a really wonderful experience.
But if I'm writing, I need tobe walking around in my own book
.
I mean, if I'm reading a reallygood book and I'm trying to
write, I hope, a really goodbook, I can't live in both of
them.
When I'm working on a plot, Ineed to let my brain work on my
(17:47):
own book.
I need to let it do that kindof almost subconscious noodling
on the plot that comes up withgood ideas, which means either I
don't do my own book Justice,or I don't really immerse myself
and get full enjoyment of areally good book.
Dan Heath (18:02):
That's really interesting that you don't want
another similar book to kind ofsteal your mind.
Share in a way.
Donna Andrews (18:09):
Well, it's not.
What if I were that easilyinfluenced that I would start
writing?
Like you know, I would readsome of the best plotters and
prose stylists I could and letthem influence the devil out of
me.
But it's more that I need to bedoing my work and not caught up
in theirs, which it really,especially since I'm doing two
(18:30):
books a year in a lot of recentyears.
It really cuts into my readingtime.
Dan Heath (18:35):
Donna, let's talk about the economics of the
business for a moment.
Talk a little bit about how youget paid as a mystery novelist.
Like, obviously you're not onsalary with the publisher.
How does it work?
Donna Andrews (18:46):
Right the way it works, and it varies depending
on the kind of publisher youhave.
If you're working with a largetraditional publisher, what
usually happens is that when yousign your contract you get
what's known as an advance,which is short for advance
against royalties.
So if, for example, you sign acontract with your publisher
(19:08):
that they will pay you $30,000for your book, what usually
happens is that you get, say,$10,000 up front when you sign
the contract.
That's first part of theroyalty.
Then when you turn in the bookyou get the second $10,000.
And when the book is actuallypublished you get the third
$10,000.
(19:28):
At that point you don't get anymore money from the publisher
for that book until your bookhas earned enough money that you
would have gotten $30,000.
If you're sure the book adds upto $30,000.
Dan Heath (19:43):
So the writer gets a percentage of the books.
Donna Andrews (19:46):
The writer gets a percentage of every book sold,
and usually it's somethingaround 6%, 5% might be as high
as 10%.
It varies with the publisher,but say for round numbers that
it's 10% of the cover price.
If you have a book that sellsfor $15, and you get a 10%
royalty, you get $1.50 for everybook sold, but you don't get
(20:08):
any more on top of your advance.
If you get an advance, untilyour book has sold enough copies
that you would have earned thatamount.
Dan Heath (20:14):
So, with your $30,000 advance example, just to pay
this off at $1.50 a book, you'vegot to sell 20,000 books.
So it's the 20,000 and firstbook where you finally start
getting royalties.
Donna Andrews (20:28):
Yeah, the 20,000 and first book you start getting
royalties,
Dan Heath (20:36):
And how common or uncommon is it for you to earn
out an advance, you being ageneric mystery writer, not
necessarily you personally.
Donna Andrews (20:46):
I think on a small advance.
It's not uncommon, but it's notguaranteed.
The $30,000 advance that Isuggested, that's a good advance
.
You're more apt to have closerto a $3,000 or $300.
Dan Heath (21:03):
$3,000 for what might take you a half year or a year
to write.
How is that sustainable?
Donna Andrews (21:10):
Well, if you went into this to earn a living, you
picked the wrong profession.
Hmm, most mystery writers, mostwriters in general, most
writers do not necessarily earna living from what they do.
I mean, of the people who starta book, they say, only 10% ever
finish it.
I don't know what percentage ofpeople who finish a book
(21:30):
succeed in getting it published.
It's higher now that you canalso self-publish.
But of the 10% of all thepeople who start a book, who
finish it, only a percentage endup getting it published and
it's a very small percentage ofworking writers who actually
earn a living from it.
The most common scenario you'veseen and this is with people who
(21:50):
are regularly writing books andselling them, who are getting
good reviews, who may be gettingnominated for winning awards,
but they may not be earning aliving from their book, because
just because you have a hit oneyear doesn't mean the next book
is gonna sell as well.
It tends to sell better.
I mean, one of the thingsthat's good about a series is it
(22:12):
tends to have a more reliablesales pattern.
If you write standalone, I lovethat character oh, this is not
about that character, I'm notgonna buy it.
Whereas with a series, peoplelove the series.
They will continue buying theseries.
Dan Heath (22:25):
So, given the somewhat stark odds, like if a
young person asks you about thiscareer, I mean, do you
recommend it or do you recommendagainst it?
Donna Andrews (22:35):
I recommend it if they're passionate enough about
it that they understand thatthey may have to support
themselves by doing somethingelse.
So I recommend find somethingelse you really like doing and
do that so you can afford to doyour art.
But it is tough because you aresending them on a trail that is
not gonna make them rich.
Unless they're, Stephen Kingprobably can afford anything he
(22:57):
wants.
Stephen King is a rarity, so Iwouldn't discourage someone, but
I try to make them understandthis is how it really works.
Do not expect that you writesomething and turn it in and
your editor fixes anythingthat's wrong with it and then it
becomes a best seller.
Dan Heath (23:12):
That's not what happens, and what about once
your book is published, likewhat role as the author do you
have in the marketing of thebook?
Donna Andrews (23:23):
One of the things that is true of most publishers
these days.
I mean, I don't know manypeople whose publisher picks
them up and takes them on awhirlwind tour of 20 cities to
promote their book, books themon the Today Show.
It just doesn't happen veryoften.
Usually the people who get thatare the people who would sell
books without it.
It's kind of up to you to do acertain amount of marketing and
(23:44):
there's varied ways that you dothat.
I mean, one of the good ways isto appear at mystery
conventions.
I remember someone wascalculating I didn't sell enough
books at this convention tomake it worth going.
That's not why you go.
You go to meet what I call"noisy readers.
Those are readers who if theylove a book, they tell the world
about them.
Dan Heath (24:04):
I love that idea of noisy readers.
That's a great phrase.
Donna Andrews (24:07):
Yeah, I mean you hear people like I'm on a fixed
income, I get your books in thelibrary.
That's okay, be a noisy reader.
I mean I know people who havenever bought a book of mine,
ever, but they've sold who knowshow many books because they
will tell people how much theylove them.
Dan Heath (24:23):
But it sounds like that outreach is on your
shoulders.
There's not like a bigmarketing juggernaut working for
you.
Donna Andrews (24:30):
They do some marketing.
The problem is that they can'tafford in today's market.
Frankly, publishers can'tafford to do a lot of marketing
for everybody.
They tend to focus marketing onthe books they think they can
push onto a best seller list.
But you know what being with atraditional publisher does get
you?
It gets you into the bookstores.
It gets you into the bookstores.
(24:53):
So when people walk in and lookat the new book table, your
book might be there.
When they wander down theshelves, your book is there.
If you're with a smallerpublisher, they may or may not
have a good distribution to thebookstores.
If you're self-publishing, youhave very great difficulty
getting yourself into anythingother than a few local
(25:13):
bookstores or genre bookstores.
Dan Heath (25:16):
So, Donna, we always have a lightning round of
questions for our guests at theend.
Let me fire away at you here.
First up.
What's a word or phrase thatonly someone from your
profession would be likely toknow, and what does it mean?
Donna Andrews (25:30):
How about pantser ?
Okay, pancer.
A pancer is someone who writesby the seat of their pants, as
opposed to a plotter who writeswith an outliner synopsis.
Ah, and you are.
I used to be a total plotterand now I'm a plotter with
pancer elements.
It's not an either/or.
S ome people (25:49):
"?
Oh, I'm totally a pancer.
Most people fall somewhere on acontinuum.
There are people who sit downand just start writing and let
the plot evolve and then have todo a lot more revision.
I will never be one of them.
I have to know where I'm going.
Dan Heath (26:05):
Who is the most famous mystery novelist, real or
fictional?
Donna Andrews (26:09):
Say it's gotta be Agatha Christie.
I'd s ay Edgar Allen Poe was arunner up, but people don't tend
to think of him.
As you know, he was before her,and he's the one that the Edgar
Awards are named after.
Dan Heath (26:19):
Am I right that Agatha Christie has sold more
books than anyone?
Basically?
Donna Andrews (26:24):
If she hasn't sold more books than anyone, s
he's one of the people that isup there Agatha Christie and the
Bible and she's definitely ofan influence.
Dan Heath (26:34):
All right ready for the final question.
Okay, what is the highestcompliment a mystery novelist
can receive?
Donna Andrews (26:43):
I think it's probably.
Oh my God, I couldn't put itdown.
I stayed up until four in themorning reading your book.
When's the next one coming out?
Yeah, I tell you.
What isn't the highestcompliment, though?
If you ever hear someone saythis book transcends the genre,
that just sets our teeth on edge.
You know why.
If we thought this genre wewere writing in was something
(27:03):
that needed to be transcended,why would we be writing in it?
We write mysteries because welove mysteries and because we
think a well-written mysterytranscends a lot.
Is a well-written mysterysomehow lesser than a literary
novel?
You know, that's genre snobbery.
If we didn't love mysteries, wewouldn't be writing them.
Dan Heath (27:29):
Donna Andrews is the author of more than three dozen
humorous mystery novels,including Murder with Peacocks,
some Like it Hawk and Let itCrow, Let it Crow, let it Crow.
You can find more books at herwebsite, donnaandrewscom.
I've been thinking about theinherent tension in Donna
(27:56):
Andrews' job.
Like, on the one hand, her corejob is to breathe life into
funny, distinctive characters asthey deal with crazy situations
.
All of it made up in her head,you know, pure imagination.
But then if you zoom into theactual day-to-day mechanics of
the job, it's got a bit of aworkman-like or, I guess,
(28:20):
workwoman-like vibe to it.
You know Donna wakes up andit's time to make the donuts.
She's got to crank out athousand words before she can
clock out for the day.
Stephen King wrote a great bookyears ago called On Writing, and
one of his quotes was: "Amateurs sit and wait for (28:34):
undefined
inspiration.
The rest of us just get up andgo to work.
And that's what Donna does getup and go to work, open document
, insert words, and then, whileshe's away from the computer,
she's mulling the story.
You know, remember her tellingme she didn't read great books
(28:57):
while she's writing, so she candevote her brain cycles to her
own work and then she's talkingwith other writers, getting them
to noodle with her on problemsin the story she's writing.
It's almost like she's buildingup her mental inventory of
ideas for the next day's workshift.
I love that blend of unbridledimagination plus brass, tax
(29:22):
operations and folks.
That's what it's like to be amystery novelist.
If you're enjoying the show,would you be a noisy listener
for us?
Tell somebody about us that youthink might like what we're
doing and, by the way, a shoutout to all our new listeners on
Cast Box - welcome to the family.
Thanks for listening.
I'm Dan Heath.
(29:43):
The show is produced by MattPurdy, and I've got to leave you
with one more quote from thatStephen King book: ".
The road to hell is paved withadverbs Love that.
See you next time.
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