March 5, 2024 • 24 mins
This week we traverse this heartrending terrain, beginning with the case of mommy vlogger Ruby Frankie. Her egregious parenting tactics, which incited widespread fury, raise pivotal questions about the unseen scars inflicted upon children in the name of discipline, and the haunting legacy such actions leave.
Caroline and I also confront the grim tale of Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrandt, whose online platform became a facade for unthinkable acts of cruelty. Our conversation takes an investigative turn as we recount the neighbor's critical role in unveiling the truth and the ensuing battle for justice. We grapple with the specter of narcissistic parenting and its selective devastation, contrasting against the legal system's capacity to advocate for those too small to stand for themselves. This candid dialogue seeks not just to uncover but to provoke a deeper contemplation on safeguarding our most vulnerable against the silent epidemic of child abuse.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/10447242/ruby-franke-youtuber-sentenced-child-abuse/
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the
Shadows.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
A Father Daughter True Crime Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
My name is Jameson Keyes.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Caroline.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, good morning Caroline.
How are you?
I'm good, how are you Very good?
It's a bright, beautiful, sunnyday here.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Especially for a late February, early March it's
crazy nice weather.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It is, which is really nice in the moment, but
also scary because of climatechange.
So not, uh, not like that.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Oh, wow, I wasn't looking quite that deep.
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
But it is like it's February.
You know what I mean.
Right, like it's actually scary.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, no, no, I grew up in Pittsburgh, as you were
born there too, in thePittsburgh area, and winters
used to be February was theworst month of the year.
Yes, it was.
It was terrible, cold, snowy,icy, awful.
And even now I think theirweather I don't think is that
bad at this point too.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So you know, climate change a real thing, literally,
and it's seen even, like youknow, in Rochester, new York,
where I lived for a minute.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, Couple minutes.
Couple minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
The, you know the people who grew up around there.
They noticed climate change,you know, 10 years ago, because
it stopped snowing as much.
It used to be like feet, likefive feet of snow.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I remember you showed me the campus when you first
started going there and you saidyou know that's a tunnel that
goes from one building toanother.
I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, it's because of the snow.
But the snow, like you know,now they have like a foot two
feet.
That's a big difference.
Yeah, for sure, the hugedifference.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It's scary.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Absolutely.
Hey, one more thing, Let me.
Let me only plug one more thinghere.
Of course, my book theVanishing Ballerina is available
on all the major platforms,whether that be Barnes, Noble,
whether that be Amazon.
It's also available onTargetandWalmartcom, and even
Thriftbooks has it.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Oh wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
So, and just this past week I launched a new
website, so if you want to buythe book directly, you can do
that.
It's on jamisonkeyscom, sovisit that site and you can also
.
I have my Facebook pageavailable through there and also
you can always email us as well.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And make sure you read and write the book.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh yes, please, If you're on a good read, please
look at the book and write itfor me.
That'd be great.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Trigger warnings today are child abuse and
torture.
Today we're going to bediscussing Ruby Frankie, and
she's been in the media quitefrequently recently because, you
know, everything just happenedwithin like the past year or two
and she was just sentenced.
So I'm going to run through allof the facts about that case so
(03:00):
we can discuss.
So Ruby Frankie was a popularmommy vlogger in 2015.
She would vlog about her daystaking care of her six children
in Springville, utah.
Springville is a tiny lakesidetown about an hour away from
Salt Lake City, close to Provo,utah.
She and her family were of theLDS church, so Mormons, which is
(03:24):
very popular there in Utah, ofcourse, so she ran a very
popular account called EightPassengers so all the members of
her family.
She amassed over 2 millionfollowers that were tuning into
her YouTube videos by 2020.
Wow, it's a lot of people In2020,.
Some of Ruby's followers grewconcerned about what some of her
(03:46):
children were saying in thevideos.
One of her children mentionedthat they had been banned from
sleeping in their bed, so theyhad been sleeping on a bean bag.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Lovely.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Which is really strange.
For a punishment to disrupt achild's sleep that's I mean,
that's considered torture.
It's not.
That is not a punishment todisrupt a in their metal devices
Someone's sleep is it's very,oh yes, sleep deprivation.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Psychological torture .
Yes, sleep deprivation that isused by well quote-unquote, was
used by different, you know, ciatype organizations, kgb and so
on.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Sleep deprivation will break someone's resolve
down faster than almost anythingelse literally, because that's
when your body Retires, right,that's when your body Mends
itself, heals.
Reset your psyche and all thatstuff, yeah exactly, yeah,
without sleep, I mean you're,you're literally like a human
zombie, right.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Like you need that to To rest, relax, recharge, you
know, heal your body, heal yourmind, like to take a break right
when I pledged actually in afraternity, oh God, back a
million years ago in college,one of the things it wasn't it
wasn't exactly sleep deprivation, it was kind of.
(04:59):
I mean, we were constantlydoing things.
They keep.
It keeps up, really sleeppepper.
Well, I know, but I didn'tCompletely not let us sleep.
It's just they didn't let ussleep that long during hell week
.
Oh, so yeah yeah, fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I, you know, we'll do another.
We'll do another Episode aboutone of the fraternity or
sororities, because they alsohave some really Creepy criminal
behavior tied into their Sun.
Do some do.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
But yeah, the vast majority of Greek organizations
are really, you know, prettypretty.
You know it's a college thing,it's social, it's, you know,
meeting other people, it's a lotof partying and so on, and I
did enjoy my time in thefraternity.
I was, I think, was infraternity for three years.
Which one alpha fight, delta.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I asked like I know, but I know someone will know
right.
Well, you've seen my, myfraternity jacket, I know but I
have no, but I don't know, Ihave no touchstone.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Eventually I did become the pledge master and I
did away with anything sleep,you know anything.
That was kind of you knowEmbarrassing anything.
Yeah, I kind of you know to poppeople asleep and I think
that's weird.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
It's weird as fuck.
Yeah, I don't understand whypeople do that.
It's so weird.
Anyways, we'll do a hazingepisode another time, okay, cuz
they're definitely have beenlike major deaths that have
happened, hazing, which is scaryanyways.
So I Didn't mention how longthe punishment had lasted, so
the child was forced to sleep ona bean bag, which is not very
(06:36):
comfortable.
No, bad for your back a verybad for your back and as a child
, when you need the most sleepin your life, right?
I Guess how long this lasted aweek, seven months.
seven months yes.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Oh god.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It's really bad.
Yeah, so take the triggerwarnings in this episode
Seriously, because they, likethe abuse of these these
children went through isactually horrible.
So there were more allegationsof other types of disciplinary
actions disciplinary in inparentheses, like are in
quotation marks, because that is, this is not disciplinary, no,
this is torturous and Abusive.
(07:12):
Then I do that in prisons.
Yeah, that's a very good point.
You have a bed in prison, right?
It's disturbing.
So Other actions that RubyFrankie took to try to punish
her children was with holdingfood and water.
Water, water is scary, sendingone of her children to a
wilderness camp, and so thattopic.
(07:34):
Have you heard of a wildernesscamp?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Maybe what do?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
you mean by wilderness camp?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So they have these camps, typically in Utah
actually, and like other kind ofnot rural but like mountainous,
sure, landscapes where likeit's hard to Climb out of, you
know, it's hard to get back tocivilization.
So if a child is misbehavingfor a long period of time,
sometimes parents are Distraught, they don't know what to do,
(08:02):
right, you know, if their childis just Like acting out, they
don't know how.
To sure, you know also this hashappened for conversion therapy
for, like gay children as well,queer children.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Let's do something on that at one point.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
We'll have to do something on that.
Yeah, it's really crazy.
But so they take them to thesewilderness camps and the people
there are Are Abusing thechildren basically.
So they, they they're forced tolike hike and they're forced to
, you know, do manual labor andthis and that, and you know,
some of them market themselvesas like, kind of like a camp
(08:38):
that just promotes discipline.
But I mean, many children havedied at these camps.
Yeah, many children have Comeout and spoken against these
camps, saying that they wereabused, they were sexually
abused.
They were, they were forced to,you know, forego water for days
.
Like I mean, it's really,really bad.
Like these are not On the upand up.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
There's a huge divide between discipline and, you
know, abuse right, I mean, it'sscary.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, so you know she would sense.
She sent one of her children toa wilderness camp, having the
children run barefoot on gravelfor miles until their feet bled.
What the she's?
She's a monster.
Yes, yes, like it's unrealForcing them to do manual labor
outside in the scorching heatsummer in Utah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Oh god without water.
You remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It's like 104 degrees .
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, we lived in Utah for one year.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
No trees.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You know, there's no trees.
There were trees where we were,but that's not.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, there was not a lot of shade.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, and without water for hours Just ferociously
on up.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, they would get really bad sunburns Having them
jump into cactuses.
Yeah, it's just it's justsadist.
She's yeah, exactly, and that'sjust to name a few.
So I mean, it's it's reallyUpsetting, like what she did to
her, her children.
It's, it's really disturbing.
So some of her followers andother concerned citizens decided
(10:08):
to start a petition for aninvestigation into Ruby's
alleged child abuses.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Good for them, mm-hmm .
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Mm-hmm Ruby and her husband cabin posted a video
saying that the comments weretaken out of context.
I Don't know how any of thiswould be okay in any context,
but so basically these were justrumors.
The only thing that wasactually posted on her page was
her child saying that he hadn'tslept in his bed for seven
(10:36):
months.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And that didn't have itself as bad.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, and they said that was taken out of context
and it's like Was he in his bed?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
No, well then it's not out of context, Right
exactly?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
But it gets worse.
So this went on.
People grew more and moreconcerned.
The popularity of the page wasgoing down as words spread about
potential child abuse.
The Frankie separated in 2022and Kevin moved out of their
house.
Ruby then deleted her channelon YouTube in 2022.
Ruby needed a job at this point, so she became a mental health
(11:06):
coach.
It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous.
Oh my God.
Can you imagine having a mentalhealth coach that abuses her
children?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's scary, no.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And she's just messing around in your head.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You know what you need to do.
I think what you really need todo, Carolyn, is throw yourself
into that cactus.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I mean, it's scary.
So during her time in mentalhealth coaching, she worked at a
place called Connections undera woman named Jody Hildebrand.
The two became fast friends andstarted a new YouTube channel
together and an Instagram calledMoms of Truth.
How terrifying is that?
That is like creepy.
(11:47):
That sounds abusive.
I don't know why they thoughtthat was yeah, that was a good
idea.
Okay, they offered herparenting classes to teach
people how to parent theirchildren, I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It's almost laughable .
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It is because it's like the obvious narcissism here
that they think they're rightand found each other, which is a
horrible pairing Like oh God.
So later on, the Frankie'seldest daughter, who was in
college at the time, and someother neighbors called the
authorities to report that hersiblings have been left alone
for long periods of time atyoung ages.
(12:23):
Right, that happened frequently, and one instance that really
broke the case was when thepolice were called.
They arrived on the scene andthey found Ruby's 12-year-old
son with open wounds on his bodyand duct tape around his wrists
.
Yeah, he had climbed through awindow and asked the neighbors
(12:44):
for food and water.
Oh my God, isn't that soupsetting.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It is so upsetting.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
He, literally, he just wanted food and water.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Oh my God, that makes me so angry.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It's so sad, like it is truly, truly despicable.
They also looked in the house,thankfully, and found her
10-year-old daughter extremelymalnourished and abused as well.
So these are the youngestchildren in the family.
The children were taken to thehospital and treated for severe
malnourishment, and the son forlacerations from being tied up
(13:13):
with rope.
Unbelievable, it was justreally horrible.
The boy later said that Rubywould put cayenne pepper in his
wounds from time to time.
For what?
As a punishment.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I mean, just like you know, when you get salt in a
cut, yes, it's painful, it hurts, it stings.
So cayenne pepper.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Even worse.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
In a wound that's probably infected, because I
don't think she's cleaning it.
You know what I mean.
It's so horribly fucked up.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It sounds like she went to the Marquis de Saade
School of Child Rearing.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I mean that's insane, I don't know what that is, it's
the root word of sadist.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So Child Protective Services took the two abused
children and the other twochildren who were under 18 out
of her care immediately.
Thank God, On August 30th 2023,Ruby Franky was finally
arrested after that incident.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yay.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Ruby was charged with six counts of aggravated child
abuse.
She pleaded guilty in court tofour of the six.
Jodi was charged for the samething also six counts for
abusing Ruby's children.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
We don't know if Jodi had children, do we?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I don't know.
Yeah, that's a good question,but I know she was abusing
Ruby's children.
I mean, wow, what?
Yeah, I know Ruby obviously isactually a sadist because she
wanted other people to abuse herchildren as well.
So Ruby was sentenced to up to15 years for each child she
abused, so the two that theycharged her with to be served
(14:58):
consecutively.
So up to 30 years.
I do not think she's gonnaserve all those years they
typically don't and I don'tthink it was enough.
She should have gotten at least50 and died in prison.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Right, we don't know how old a woman she is to it.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Let's see.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
She looked like she was in her 30s before she was 42
.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, okay, she's 42, so she serves half that 15
years she'll be out.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Nuts.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, scary.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
There's.
You see, I think there arethings that are so severe child
abuse, pedophilia, rape, youknow obviously murder I think
that there has to be minimum 30.
Yeah your sentences for some ofthese things.
That's awful, I mean it's truly, really, really upsetting.
(15:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
And I don't know how they decided on 15.
I don't know if that was themaximum in the state.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Might be, might be.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
But it's disturbing.
Yeah, so her business partnerand the woman complicit in the
child abuse, jodi Hildebrandt,will also serve one to 15 years.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So she could be at five or one scary.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So Ruby chose two of her children and used them as
their family scapegoat.
This is commonly seen when oneor both parents in a family have
narcissistic personality traits.
This means that the child orchildren that are unfairly
targeted by one parent or all ofthe family members, this child
(16:28):
will be the landing board forall of the narcissist's negative
feelings.
They will blame them foranything and everything that
goes wrong in the family.
Kind of just singling them out,as this will happen to you
unless you chose a line, but ifsomething you know is wrong,
they will find a way to twist itaround and pin it on them.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Wow, that is.
Yeah, that's paler main for thenarcissist.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, no, it is.
And you see it like.
I mean, I've heard likefriends' personal accounts, not
with like this level of abuse,but with a lot of like mental
abuse.
And yeah, it's really common ifyou have like a parent who,
like is a narcissist, doesn'twant to apologize, ever doesn't
want to.
You know, see anyone else'spoint of view, there's so many
(17:13):
like lists of personality traitsto, like you know, be
considered on the spectrum oflike narcissism.
So this scapegoating in afamily was seen in the book the
Child Called it.
Did you ever read that book?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I did not no.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I read it as a child.
Actually, it was in the library, the school library, yikes.
Yeah, I know it was verydisturbing.
Basically, it was like I thinkit was like somewhat of a memoir
of the author, who was like ascapegoat for his family.
(17:46):
So all of his siblings, hismother, they all hated him.
They abused him, they forcedhim to, like, live in the
basement, they forced him to eatrotten food, they forced him to
, you know, go to the bathroomin a bucket, like they forced
him.
It was just, it's really reallydisturbing.
They wouldn't let him shower.
(18:06):
All the kids at school hatedhim, like it's.
It was really horrible, Sure,and we also saw this more
recently in the case of GabrielHernandez, whose case was made
into a Netflix documentary wherehis mom and her boyfriend would
abuse him, beat him.
I think I don't know if theysexually assaulted him or not,
but they definitely were abusiveto him.
(18:28):
They would lock him in acabinet.
Oh, this is what they did, that.
They were turned on by theabuse, watching each other abuse
the child.
Isn't that the most disturbingthing?
I mean it's yeah, and so thatcase was particularly difficult
to watch because the teachercalled, called, called CBS.
(18:51):
Like often he would come toschool with, you know, bloody,
like black and blue eyes.
He would come to school withhis head shaved in places, like
it was just.
He would come to school withburns, like really, really bad.
And it's tough because CBSsometimes dropped the ball.
(19:11):
You know they can't make thingsfit or they don't, you know,
have enough social workerssometimes.
And unfortunately, gabrielHernandez was was murdered by
his mom and her boyfriend.
Good God, yeah.
And it was horrible becausethere were so many signs, so
many people called.
I mean, it's just, it's areally disturbing Netflix
(19:33):
documentary, but it is.
It is so in Netflix, I think.
But so those negativeprojections by one parent or
multiple family members leads topoor self-esteem, of course,
for the child and can cause aslew of mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, for sure, Because the the chance of that
child then replicating that whenthey're raising their own is
probably released when thathappens.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Oh, for sure, For sure.
And it's like also, just likethey are so broken, like they,
you need like support system.
And when you don't have one,and when you have the opposite
in your family home, you know itleads a lot of children to
commit suicide, to, you know,run away from home and they're
(20:20):
at risk for homelessness orexploitation.
It's, it's really unfortunate.
So the biggest takeaway fromthis is, if you see someone
abusing their child or suspectthat someone may be abusing
their child, call the police toinvestigate, call child
protective services.
I'm really glad that theseyoung children in Ruby, frank,
in the Frankie case, got out ofthat house of horrors.
(20:42):
But oftentimes, like we justdiscussed, you know, even if
neighbors and friends call thepolice, not enough evidence is
found or CPS isn't convinced ofany wrongdoing or they slipped
through the cracks, and you knowit's a horrible thing to
witness.
And I really think that we justwe have to stand up for the,
for the children in ourcommunities.
You know, don't second guessyourself if you witness
(21:05):
something heinous.
And again I want to contrastthat with, like actual parenting
.
Like you know, is it acceptableto yell at your child?
I mean, people have varyinglike opinions on that.
But that is not consideredchild abuse, you know, not.
I mean it depends on how longand like for what, of course,
(21:25):
but like, you know what I meanand what they're saying.
And what they're saying,definitely what they're saying.
But you know, it's really toughto be a parent.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I mean, I don't have children, but you know it's
tough to discipline children andI completely understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
However, I think we all know when something is wrong
, you know, and if you get thatfeeling that something is wrong
to a child, especially physical,you know, and people have their
opinions on spanking, but likehitting with you know, a closed
(22:04):
fist especially unacceptable,hitting people in the face,
unacceptable, like you know whatI mean.
Like, just trust your gut onthese things and you know I
think it's really tough to be aparent call if you, you know,
need the people there can alsohelp you.
I don't know about the police,I think maybe it depends on who
picks up, but, like CPSdefinitely is a good call to
(22:26):
make.
Um, if you suspect somethinglike someone is being abused, a
child especially, or even asenior citizen, because that
happens as well that seniorcitizen abuse is you know is a
big issue as well.
Um, and that's adult protectiveservices, so that's a different
number.
But, um, yeah, a person's lifecan be on the line.
So you know, if you have afeeling, it's definitely a good
(22:49):
choice to make.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, for sure.
And then obviously, the localpolice.
Um, there's also the nationalcenter for missing and abused
children, very true?
Um, so there, there are a lotof agencies out there.
It's just sometimes having thecourage to pull the trigger on
them.
Listen, I would much ratherthink something is wrong and
then be proved incorrect, andeven if to the point it made
someone angry, um, rather thanlet something fall through the
(23:13):
cracks and not doing somethingbecause I didn't want to get
involved and or I didn't want tobe.
You know, I didn't want to bewrong.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Absolutely, and I think that recently people have
been calling to report peoplelike as like revenge as well,
and that's completely Countingproductive, it's totally.
I mean, it's just, it's a wasteof resources, sure, and it it
forces people to slip throughthe cracks Right.
(23:41):
Follow the show on whateverstreaming site you're listening
on.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And remember.
All of the source material willbe available in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And follow us on Instagram at what we lose in the
shadows and let us know if youwant to hear a specific case or
if you just want to give us somefeedback.
Okay, join us in the shadowsnext Tuesday.
Bye.
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the
Shadows.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
A Father Daughter True Crime Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
My name is Jameson Keyes.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Caroline.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, good morning Caroline.
How are you?
I'm good, how are you Very good?
It's a bright, beautiful, sunnyday here.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Especially for a late February, early March it's
crazy nice weather.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It is, which is really nice in the moment, but
also scary because of climatechange.
So not, uh, not like that.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Oh, wow, I wasn't looking quite that deep.
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
But it is like it's February.
You know what I mean.
Right, like it's actually scary.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, no, no, I grew up in Pittsburgh, as you were
born there too, in thePittsburgh area, and winters
used to be February was theworst month of the year.
Yes, it was.
It was terrible, cold, snowy,icy, awful.
And even now I think theirweather I don't think is that
bad at this point too.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So you know, climate change a real thing, literally,
and it's seen even, like youknow, in Rochester, new York,
where I lived for a minute.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, Couple minutes.
Couple minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
The, you know the people who grew up around there.
They noticed climate change,you know, 10 years ago, because
it stopped snowing as much.
It used to be like feet, likefive feet of snow.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I remember you showed me the campus when you first
started going there and you saidyou know that's a tunnel that
goes from one building toanother.
I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, it's because of the snow.
But the snow, like you know,now they have like a foot two
feet.
That's a big difference.
Yeah, for sure, the hugedifference.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It's scary.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Absolutely.
Hey, one more thing, Let me.
Let me only plug one more thinghere.
Of course, my book theVanishing Ballerina is available
on all the major platforms,whether that be Barnes, Noble,
whether that be Amazon.
It's also available onTargetandWalmartcom, and even
Thriftbooks has it.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Oh wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
So, and just this past week I launched a new
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that.
It's on jamisonkeyscom, sovisit that site and you can also
.
I have my Facebook pageavailable through there and also
you can always email us as well.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And make sure you read and write the book.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh yes, please, If you're on a good read, please
look at the book and write itfor me.
That'd be great.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Trigger warnings today are child abuse and
torture.
Today we're going to bediscussing Ruby Frankie, and
she's been in the media quitefrequently recently because, you
know, everything just happenedwithin like the past year or two
and she was just sentenced.
So I'm going to run through allof the facts about that case so
(03:00):
we can discuss.
So Ruby Frankie was a popularmommy vlogger in 2015.
She would vlog about her daystaking care of her six children
in Springville, utah.
Springville is a tiny lakesidetown about an hour away from
Salt Lake City, close to Provo,utah.
She and her family were of theLDS church, so Mormons, which is
(03:24):
very popular there in Utah, ofcourse, so she ran a very
popular account called EightPassengers so all the members of
her family.
She amassed over 2 millionfollowers that were tuning into
her YouTube videos by 2020.
Wow, it's a lot of people In2020,.
Some of Ruby's followers grewconcerned about what some of her
(03:46):
children were saying in thevideos.
One of her children mentionedthat they had been banned from
sleeping in their bed, so theyhad been sleeping on a bean bag.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Lovely.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Which is really strange.
For a punishment to disrupt achild's sleep that's I mean,
that's considered torture.
It's not.
That is not a punishment todisrupt a in their metal devices
Someone's sleep is it's very,oh yes, sleep deprivation.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Psychological torture .
Yes, sleep deprivation that isused by well quote-unquote, was
used by different, you know, ciatype organizations, kgb and so
on.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Sleep deprivation will break someone's resolve
down faster than almost anythingelse literally, because that's
when your body Retires, right,that's when your body Mends
itself, heals.
Reset your psyche and all thatstuff, yeah exactly, yeah,
without sleep, I mean you're,you're literally like a human
zombie, right.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Like you need that to To rest, relax, recharge, you
know, heal your body, heal yourmind, like to take a break right
when I pledged actually in afraternity, oh God, back a
million years ago in college,one of the things it wasn't it
wasn't exactly sleep deprivation, it was kind of.
(04:59):
I mean, we were constantlydoing things.
They keep.
It keeps up, really sleeppepper.
Well, I know, but I didn'tCompletely not let us sleep.
It's just they didn't let ussleep that long during hell week
.
Oh, so yeah yeah, fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I, you know, we'll do another.
We'll do another Episode aboutone of the fraternity or
sororities, because they alsohave some really Creepy criminal
behavior tied into their Sun.
Do some do.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
But yeah, the vast majority of Greek organizations
are really, you know, prettypretty.
You know it's a college thing,it's social, it's, you know,
meeting other people, it's a lotof partying and so on, and I
did enjoy my time in thefraternity.
I was, I think, was infraternity for three years.
Which one alpha fight, delta.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I asked like I know, but I know someone will know
right.
Well, you've seen my, myfraternity jacket, I know but I
have no, but I don't know, Ihave no touchstone.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Eventually I did become the pledge master and I
did away with anything sleep,you know anything.
That was kind of you knowEmbarrassing anything.
Yeah, I kind of you know to poppeople asleep and I think
that's weird.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
It's weird as fuck.
Yeah, I don't understand whypeople do that.
It's so weird.
Anyways, we'll do a hazingepisode another time, okay, cuz
they're definitely have beenlike major deaths that have
happened, hazing, which is scaryanyways.
So I Didn't mention how longthe punishment had lasted, so
the child was forced to sleep ona bean bag, which is not very
(06:36):
comfortable.
No, bad for your back a verybad for your back and as a child
, when you need the most sleepin your life, right?
I Guess how long this lasted aweek, seven months.
seven months yes.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Oh god.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It's really bad.
Yeah, so take the triggerwarnings in this episode
Seriously, because they, likethe abuse of these these
children went through isactually horrible.
So there were more allegationsof other types of disciplinary
actions disciplinary in inparentheses, like are in
quotation marks, because that is, this is not disciplinary, no,
this is torturous and Abusive.
(07:12):
Then I do that in prisons.
Yeah, that's a very good point.
You have a bed in prison, right?
It's disturbing.
So Other actions that RubyFrankie took to try to punish
her children was with holdingfood and water.
Water, water is scary, sendingone of her children to a
wilderness camp, and so thattopic.
(07:34):
Have you heard of a wildernesscamp?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Maybe what do?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
you mean by wilderness camp?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So they have these camps, typically in Utah
actually, and like other kind ofnot rural but like mountainous,
sure, landscapes where likeit's hard to Climb out of, you
know, it's hard to get back tocivilization.
So if a child is misbehavingfor a long period of time,
sometimes parents are Distraught, they don't know what to do,
(08:02):
right, you know, if their childis just Like acting out, they
don't know how.
To sure, you know also this hashappened for conversion therapy
for, like gay children as well,queer children.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Let's do something on that at one point.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
We'll have to do something on that.
Yeah, it's really crazy.
But so they take them to thesewilderness camps and the people
there are Are Abusing thechildren basically.
So they, they they're forced tolike hike and they're forced to
, you know, do manual labor andthis and that, and you know,
some of them market themselvesas like, kind of like a camp
(08:38):
that just promotes discipline.
But I mean, many children havedied at these camps.
Yeah, many children have Comeout and spoken against these
camps, saying that they wereabused, they were sexually
abused.
They were, they were forced to,you know, forego water for days
.
Like I mean, it's really,really bad.
Like these are not On the upand up.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
There's a huge divide between discipline and, you
know, abuse right, I mean, it'sscary.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, so you know she would sense.
She sent one of her children toa wilderness camp, having the
children run barefoot on gravelfor miles until their feet bled.
What the she's?
She's a monster.
Yes, yes, like it's unrealForcing them to do manual labor
outside in the scorching heatsummer in Utah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Oh god without water.
You remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It's like 104 degrees .
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, we lived in Utah for one year.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
No trees.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You know, there's no trees.
There were trees where we were,but that's not.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, there was not a lot of shade.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, and without water for hours Just ferociously
on up.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, they would get really bad sunburns Having them
jump into cactuses.
Yeah, it's just it's justsadist.
She's yeah, exactly, and that'sjust to name a few.
So I mean, it's it's reallyUpsetting, like what she did to
her, her children.
It's, it's really disturbing.
So some of her followers andother concerned citizens decided
(10:08):
to start a petition for aninvestigation into Ruby's
alleged child abuses.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Good for them, mm-hmm .
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Mm-hmm Ruby and her husband cabin posted a video
saying that the comments weretaken out of context.
I Don't know how any of thiswould be okay in any context,
but so basically these were justrumors.
The only thing that wasactually posted on her page was
her child saying that he hadn'tslept in his bed for seven
(10:36):
months.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And that didn't have itself as bad.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, and they said that was taken out of context
and it's like Was he in his bed?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
No, well then it's not out of context, Right
exactly?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
But it gets worse.
So this went on.
People grew more and moreconcerned.
The popularity of the page wasgoing down as words spread about
potential child abuse.
The Frankie separated in 2022and Kevin moved out of their
house.
Ruby then deleted her channelon YouTube in 2022.
Ruby needed a job at this point, so she became a mental health
(11:06):
coach.
It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous.
Oh my God.
Can you imagine having a mentalhealth coach that abuses her
children?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's scary, no.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And she's just messing around in your head.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You know what you need to do.
I think what you really need todo, Carolyn, is throw yourself
into that cactus.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I mean, it's scary.
So during her time in mentalhealth coaching, she worked at a
place called Connections undera woman named Jody Hildebrand.
The two became fast friends andstarted a new YouTube channel
together and an Instagram calledMoms of Truth.
How terrifying is that?
That is like creepy.
(11:47):
That sounds abusive.
I don't know why they thoughtthat was yeah, that was a good
idea.
Okay, they offered herparenting classes to teach
people how to parent theirchildren, I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It's almost laughable .
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It is because it's like the obvious narcissism here
that they think they're rightand found each other, which is a
horrible pairing Like oh God.
So later on, the Frankie'seldest daughter, who was in
college at the time, and someother neighbors called the
authorities to report that hersiblings have been left alone
for long periods of time atyoung ages.
(12:23):
Right, that happened frequently, and one instance that really
broke the case was when thepolice were called.
They arrived on the scene andthey found Ruby's 12-year-old
son with open wounds on his bodyand duct tape around his wrists
.
Yeah, he had climbed through awindow and asked the neighbors
(12:44):
for food and water.
Oh my God, isn't that soupsetting.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It is so upsetting.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
He, literally, he just wanted food and water.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Oh my God, that makes me so angry.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It's so sad, like it is truly, truly despicable.
They also looked in the house,thankfully, and found her
10-year-old daughter extremelymalnourished and abused as well.
So these are the youngestchildren in the family.
The children were taken to thehospital and treated for severe
malnourishment, and the son forlacerations from being tied up
(13:13):
with rope.
Unbelievable, it was justreally horrible.
The boy later said that Rubywould put cayenne pepper in his
wounds from time to time.
For what?
As a punishment.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I mean, just like you know, when you get salt in a
cut, yes, it's painful, it hurts, it stings.
So cayenne pepper.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Even worse.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
In a wound that's probably infected, because I
don't think she's cleaning it.
You know what I mean.
It's so horribly fucked up.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It sounds like she went to the Marquis de Saade
School of Child Rearing.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I mean that's insane, I don't know what that is, it's
the root word of sadist.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So Child Protective Services took the two abused
children and the other twochildren who were under 18 out
of her care immediately.
Thank God, On August 30th 2023,Ruby Franky was finally
arrested after that incident.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yay.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Ruby was charged with six counts of aggravated child
abuse.
She pleaded guilty in court tofour of the six.
Jodi was charged for the samething also six counts for
abusing Ruby's children.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
We don't know if Jodi had children, do we?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I don't know.
Yeah, that's a good question,but I know she was abusing
Ruby's children.
I mean, wow, what?
Yeah, I know Ruby obviously isactually a sadist because she
wanted other people to abuse herchildren as well.
So Ruby was sentenced to up to15 years for each child she
abused, so the two that theycharged her with to be served
(14:58):
consecutively.
So up to 30 years.
I do not think she's gonnaserve all those years they
typically don't and I don'tthink it was enough.
She should have gotten at least50 and died in prison.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Right, we don't know how old a woman she is to it.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Let's see.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
She looked like she was in her 30s before she was 42
.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, okay, she's 42, so she serves half that 15
years she'll be out.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Nuts.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, scary.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
There's.
You see, I think there arethings that are so severe child
abuse, pedophilia, rape, youknow obviously murder I think
that there has to be minimum 30.
Yeah your sentences for some ofthese things.
That's awful, I mean it's truly, really, really upsetting.
(15:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
And I don't know how they decided on 15.
I don't know if that was themaximum in the state.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Might be, might be.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
But it's disturbing.
Yeah, so her business partnerand the woman complicit in the
child abuse, jodi Hildebrandt,will also serve one to 15 years.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So she could be at five or one scary.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So Ruby chose two of her children and used them as
their family scapegoat.
This is commonly seen when oneor both parents in a family have
narcissistic personality traits.
This means that the child orchildren that are unfairly
targeted by one parent or all ofthe family members, this child
(16:28):
will be the landing board forall of the narcissist's negative
feelings.
They will blame them foranything and everything that
goes wrong in the family.
Kind of just singling them out,as this will happen to you
unless you chose a line, but ifsomething you know is wrong,
they will find a way to twist itaround and pin it on them.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Wow, that is.
Yeah, that's paler main for thenarcissist.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, no, it is.
And you see it like.
I mean, I've heard likefriends' personal accounts, not
with like this level of abuse,but with a lot of like mental
abuse.
And yeah, it's really common ifyou have like a parent who,
like is a narcissist, doesn'twant to apologize, ever doesn't
want to.
You know, see anyone else'spoint of view, there's so many
(17:13):
like lists of personality traitsto, like you know, be
considered on the spectrum oflike narcissism.
So this scapegoating in afamily was seen in the book the
Child Called it.
Did you ever read that book?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I did not no.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I read it as a child.
Actually, it was in the library, the school library, yikes.
Yeah, I know it was verydisturbing.
Basically, it was like I thinkit was like somewhat of a memoir
of the author, who was like ascapegoat for his family.
(17:46):
So all of his siblings, hismother, they all hated him.
They abused him, they forcedhim to, like, live in the
basement, they forced him to eatrotten food, they forced him to
, you know, go to the bathroomin a bucket, like they forced
him.
It was just, it's really reallydisturbing.
They wouldn't let him shower.
(18:06):
All the kids at school hatedhim, like it's.
It was really horrible, Sure,and we also saw this more
recently in the case of GabrielHernandez, whose case was made
into a Netflix documentary wherehis mom and her boyfriend would
abuse him, beat him.
I think I don't know if theysexually assaulted him or not,
but they definitely were abusiveto him.
(18:28):
They would lock him in acabinet.
Oh, this is what they did, that.
They were turned on by theabuse, watching each other abuse
the child.
Isn't that the most disturbingthing?
I mean it's yeah, and so thatcase was particularly difficult
to watch because the teachercalled, called, called CBS.
(18:51):
Like often he would come toschool with, you know, bloody,
like black and blue eyes.
He would come to school withhis head shaved in places, like
it was just.
He would come to school withburns, like really, really bad.
And it's tough because CBSsometimes dropped the ball.
(19:11):
You know they can't make thingsfit or they don't, you know,
have enough social workerssometimes.
And unfortunately, gabrielHernandez was was murdered by
his mom and her boyfriend.
Good God, yeah.
And it was horrible becausethere were so many signs, so
many people called.
I mean, it's just, it's areally disturbing Netflix
(19:33):
documentary, but it is.
It is so in Netflix, I think.
But so those negativeprojections by one parent or
multiple family members leads topoor self-esteem, of course,
for the child and can cause aslew of mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, for sure, Because the the chance of that
child then replicating that whenthey're raising their own is
probably released when thathappens.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Oh, for sure, For sure.
And it's like also, just likethey are so broken, like they,
you need like support system.
And when you don't have one,and when you have the opposite
in your family home, you know itleads a lot of children to
commit suicide, to, you know,run away from home and they're
(20:20):
at risk for homelessness orexploitation.
It's, it's really unfortunate.
So the biggest takeaway fromthis is, if you see someone
abusing their child or suspectthat someone may be abusing
their child, call the police toinvestigate, call child
protective services.
I'm really glad that theseyoung children in Ruby, frank,
in the Frankie case, got out ofthat house of horrors.
(20:42):
But oftentimes, like we justdiscussed, you know, even if
neighbors and friends call thepolice, not enough evidence is
found or CPS isn't convinced ofany wrongdoing or they slipped
through the cracks, and you knowit's a horrible thing to
witness.
And I really think that we justwe have to stand up for the,
for the children in ourcommunities.
You know, don't second guessyourself if you witness
(21:05):
something heinous.
And again I want to contrastthat with, like actual parenting
.
Like you know, is it acceptableto yell at your child?
I mean, people have varyinglike opinions on that.
But that is not consideredchild abuse, you know, not.
I mean it depends on how longand like for what, of course,
(21:25):
but like, you know what I meanand what they're saying.
And what they're saying,definitely what they're saying.
But you know, it's really toughto be a parent.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I mean, I don't have children, but you know it's
tough to discipline children andI completely understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
However, I think we all know when something is wrong
, you know, and if you get thatfeeling that something is wrong
to a child, especially physical,you know, and people have their
opinions on spanking, but likehitting with you know, a closed
(22:04):
fist especially unacceptable,hitting people in the face,
unacceptable, like you know whatI mean.
Like, just trust your gut onthese things and you know I
think it's really tough to be aparent call if you, you know,
need the people there can alsohelp you.
I don't know about the police,I think maybe it depends on who
picks up, but, like CPSdefinitely is a good call to
(22:26):
make.
Um, if you suspect somethinglike someone is being abused, a
child especially, or even asenior citizen, because that
happens as well that seniorcitizen abuse is you know is a
big issue as well.
Um, and that's adult protectiveservices, so that's a different
number.
But, um, yeah, a person's lifecan be on the line.
So you know, if you have afeeling, it's definitely a good
(22:49):
choice to make.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, for sure.
And then obviously, the localpolice.
Um, there's also the nationalcenter for missing and abused
children, very true?
Um, so there, there are a lotof agencies out there.
It's just sometimes having thecourage to pull the trigger on
them.
Listen, I would much ratherthink something is wrong and
then be proved incorrect, andeven if to the point it made
someone angry, um, rather thanlet something fall through the
(23:13):
cracks and not doing somethingbecause I didn't want to get
involved and or I didn't want tobe.
You know, I didn't want to bewrong.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Absolutely, and I think that recently people have
been calling to report peoplelike as like revenge as well,
and that's completely Countingproductive, it's totally.
I mean, it's just, it's a wasteof resources, sure, and it it
forces people to slip throughthe cracks Right.
(23:41):
Follow the show on whateverstreaming site you're listening
on.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And remember.
All of the source material willbe available in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And follow us on Instagram at what we lose in the
shadows and let us know if youwant to hear a specific case or
if you just want to give us somefeedback.
Okay, join us in the shadowsnext Tuesday.
Bye.
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