June 30, 2025 • 47 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by Casting Director, John Ort. John is a two-time Artios Award winner for Outstanding Achievement in Casting.
Notable credits include Will Gluck's comedy feature Anyone But You, Gareth Edwards’ sci-fi feature The Creator, the Miramax horror film The Home, My Big Fat Greek Wedding 3, the international series "The Swarm," the last 5 seasons of CBS's “Bull,” CBS’s “Tommy" starring Edie Falco, several Tom Hooper directed commercial film spots, VO for Gen-Z Media’s scripted podcasts, feature films My Hero, Love Island (Fire Island), Last Ferry and Anya, short films Dérive, The Water Song and Etymology, as well as the music video Evolution featuring SIREN.
Today John shares his view on the creative side paired with the business side of our industry. Along with some great advice for adjusting your mindset on self tapes and what casting is looking for in your read. Now lets get to the conversation!
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What's My Frame, hosted by Laura Linda Bradley
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi everyone today and What's my frame?
I'm from my casting director John Org John is a two time
Ardeos Award winner for outstanding achievement in
casting. Notable credits include Anyone
But You The Creator, My Big Fat Greek Wedding 3 International
series, The Swarm, and the last five seasons of Bull on CBS to
name just a few. Today, John shares his view on
(00:22):
the creative side paired with the business side of our
industry, along with sharing some great advice for adjusting
your mindset on self tapes and what casting is looking for in
your read. Now let's get to the
conversation. Hey John, welcome to What's my
frame? How you doing?
Hi. I'm doing really well, thanks
for having me. Thank you for being here and
(00:42):
making the time. We like to start every episode
kind of the same way. Just of what drew you to the
arts? Who are some of the influential
mentors or really pivotal opportunities?
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Well, I, I started as a
performance major initially at Fordham University here here in
New York. And so I, you know, was here in
(01:07):
New York studying to be an actor.
And while I was in college, I, Ireally would just want to see
what was on, what was happening on the other side of the table.
So I, I interned at both a talent agency and a casting
office. And the casting office, it was
Johnson Lyft casting. They had all the, you know, big
Broadway musicals, Cameron Macintosh at the time.
(01:29):
And I just, and also second stage and I really fell in love
with with casting at that time. I even extended my internship
for another semester. I didn't need to, but they
invited me to and I, I loved it.And they really, you know, they,
they really let me go on auditions with them, be in the
(01:51):
room. I wasn't even a reader at that
one. I mean, they seem to really
like, let me do things that, that I, I don't believe anyway,
that all the interns were doing.So as much as I was falling in
love with it, it felt as though they, they saw that in me as
well. So from there, I, you know, once
(02:14):
I graduated, I again, I, sorry, I've always had it in the back
of my mind that I, I really lovecasting.
I can see myself doing that, youknow, but I had just trained for
a few years as an actor and I wanted to just sort of, you
know, see, see what, you know, see what would happen.
So over the next few years, while I was pursuing acting,
(02:35):
what I would do is, you know, anytime somebody maybe was, you
know, doing a producing a play or a short film or something.
And if there was no role for me in it, I would immediately say,
let me just cast it, you know, free.
I'm just your free casting director.
So I was sort of always, always,you know, kind of, you know,
(02:58):
keeping myself involved in, in that way and adding things to my
resume. And so when I finally decided to
make the transition full time, Iactually had a little bit of a
resume, you know, and, and, and so you know, what, what's
interesting is, is at the time, ABC, this is going all the way
(03:21):
back to the writers strike of 2008, 2009, you know, and ABC
the, the, IT, it just so happened that around March of
that year is when I was looking to make the transition full time
and the strike had just ended. So pilot season was pushed.
(03:45):
So the stars aligned. And in March of that year, ABC
prime time in New York, where itwas looking for pilot season
casting assistance. So that was a you know, so that
so I sort of fell into television at that point.
All of my experience was theaterbefore that fell into TV.
(04:05):
And I ended up, you know, doing a couple of years as a freelance
for pilot season and also the talent showcase that they do
every year. I was the coordinator.
So I ended up for a couple years, you know, I think even
though as I was freelance, I waswith them maybe 10 months out of
the year. And then that ended up, you
(04:26):
know, at some point the department was changing, the
coordinator position came up. So I ended up becoming full
time, worked my way up to manager.
You know, that was, you know, about 7 years I spent at ABC.
And then, you know, around when the all the streamers were
(04:47):
starting to come into play and original content on the
streaming services and suddenly there was just so much more
going on. I thought, you know, this is
maybe a good time to actually leave the network and go
freelance and have the opportunity to just work on a
lot of different kinds of projects.
(05:08):
And, you know, so that's what I did.
And I, you know, started as an associate casting director.
I worked on shows like younger and royal pains and, and then
ended up doing the the pilot in first season of Ozark with Alexa
Fogle. And then that also brought me to
(05:31):
to Bull at at first I was the casting.
It was the so the cast director on the pilot and Catholic
Chopin. And then I was able for season 2
and then for the rest of that run, I was I was brought in as a
as a Co casting director for Bull.
And so that's sort of where it started.
And then, you know, continued with TV, but you know, more,
(05:54):
more films as well in the last few years.
Yeah, some commercial work, Bo theater.
I just love it. I, I, I, I do everything I can.
I I love to work on all of it. I.
Think the take away is John loves to work.
I do, I do, I do. And I've said that to people
before, but yeah, no. And I also really, you know, I,
(06:18):
I really, I love the process. I love actors.
I, I love casting and, and to me, of course, it's exciting to
work on high profile projects and those sorts of things, but
it's also really, really fun to work on, you know, downtown
theater or short films or ultra low micro budget, whatever it
(06:41):
is. I, I sort of, I enjoy, you know,
putting, putting, you know, putting that puzzle together.
What was your experience as an actor?
Because it was so fascinating towatch the thoughts and the
memories kind of run over your face as you're explaining that
story because you could tell youwere falling in love with
casting, but you had been pavinga road in another direction and
(07:04):
kind of wanted to at least honorthat.
And I think a lot of people can relate to that, especially as
like the the ground is continuing to move underneath
us. So what was the experience for
you like as an actor? And was there a pivotal moment
that you were like, OK, now? Yeah, I'm really, I'm ready.
(07:26):
I'm I'm ready to say goodbye to this and and really focus on
casting this my career. Yeah, I, I found that for
whatever reason, I was really I,I was into the pursuit of it.
I was excited to book the job, of course, but then I wasn't
really loving the work as much. And, you know, I do think part
(07:51):
of it was that, you know, I, I was doing, you know, regional
theatre gigs and I'm from Connecticut.
And so I, I got into Hartford stage and was doing their
Christmas Carol every year and then other, other things
throughout the year, which was awesome and an amazing
(08:12):
experience. But every time I'd come back to
New York, within a month, I was gone again.
And I just wasn't loving the lifestyle really.
I mean, I, you know, I, I love, I love acting as a craft, but
the, the, the sort of lifestyle business side of it of an actor
(08:36):
wasn't. So speaking to me, you know, I
am also, I'm a Capricorn and I really do believe there's
something to that in terms of mypersonality, but I, I need, I
need structure and certain things that.
And I think casting really there's a, a beautiful mix of
(08:58):
the creative side of, of, of allof this, but then also the
business side. You know, there's also a lot of
lot of lists and math and negotiating and, you know, deal
making and there's a lot of stuff that goes into casting
that is on the other side. And I think that that left
brain, right brain sort of thing, you know, really speaks
(09:21):
to me. Yeah.
And so I just sort of realized that, you know, I think I think
that makes more sense. And I, I want to sort of settle
in one place and sort of, yeah, being in and out and all over
the place and just wasn't, wasn't the life I wanted.
Exactly. Yeah, I know for myself, like
(09:41):
when I was considering like whenI was in university and was
considering this as a career, itwas different.
It looked like, you know, the goal was you picked New York or
LA and you kind of like landed there and you started working
towards shows and credits and you worked in a direction.
And now even those that are on ashow, they've got truncated
seasons or they're not there forthe whole season and they're
(10:02):
going to do a movie in Canada. And it's it's if it's OK for you
to have a Vagabond life, like it's great.
But I know that like for some people, it just it doesn't
drive. I am curious because you were
actually mentioned in a couple of other episodes by other
guests that were like John's casting eye is just so specific
(10:23):
and so superb. And I was like, OK, we got to
talk to John. We got to have him on the
podcast. Who are some of the influential
voices or those mentors that helped shape and craft what you
look for and what really holds your attention as a casting
director now? Oh, wow.
(10:43):
I mean, I've, I've just, I've, Ifeel so lucky to, to say that
I've worked with so many amazingcasting directors over the
years. You know, you know, going all
the way back even to that internship, you know, Tyler
Rubin was there at that at Johnson Live at that time.
(11:03):
So, you know, it started, it started, it started big.
But, you know, over the years, you know, obviously ABC was very
influential when I first started.
Rosalie Joseph and Jenna Murphy Butler and the absolutely
incredible Marcy Phillips, who then Marcie and I worked side by
(11:25):
side together for, for many years, just really just the two
of us, you know, that the officewas small outside of pilot
season situations and having, you know, extra people around.
So that's a huge influence. You know, Alexa Fogle was
someone that I, I, I loved the different series that she had
(11:50):
done. You know, I was so enamoured
with her work that I jumped at the chance to work with her.
And Ozark was such a amazing experience.
And, you know, I just love the cast.
We we had the pleasure to work with.
And Jason Bateman is as nice andfunny in person as you would
(12:11):
hope he would be, you know, so that was just a wonderful and
the writing was fantastic. Chris Mundy.
So, you know, it was just a wonderful experience and
obviously now the last many years, I think we're going on
nine years. But Kathleen Schopen and I were
worked together for all of that time.
We do a lot of projects together.
(12:33):
You know, I also had a chance, Cindy Tolin, Ellen Lewis, you
know, I and you know, The thing is, is you, you sort of absorb
something from everyone, you know, because I think with
casting, you know, the process is really kind of, you know,
it's, it's the same really. But when you work with all these
(12:54):
amazing people, they all have their own approach and their
approach is the approach. And so I think you, you know, so
you, you know, you absorb you, you take what you, you want and
you and other things you let go.And then, then, and then over
time, because the other thing is, look, it's all subjective.
So, you know, you know, I would say, you know, certain people,
(13:18):
we agree 98% of the time maybe, but there's sometimes that we
don't, you know what I mean? There is a certain you know,
it's it's subjective. I'd love to talk about what
holds your attention and what ismemorable for you in auditions,
especially in the current evolution of self tapes.
And where we don't, I know there's so much insecurity with
(13:43):
actors if like we don't get a chance to show our
personalities, we don't get to become three-dimensional for you
all. But ultimately the work is
what's the most important in thecraft.
But I'm curious what stands out to you and is memorable and
inspires you and and get you excited about an actor?
Yeah. Oh, you know, I really think
it's, it's, it really comes downto did you do your homework?
(14:08):
You know, did you, did you, did you really prepare?
Did you, do you have a strong opinion about what the scene is
about and what do you want? And you know, all of those
things, you know, bringing yourself though, it's, it's,
it's your interpretation, your, your vision, you're really
(14:30):
bringing yourself to it and, andcommitting to those choices, you
know, and really, you know, again and making those strong
choices, having a strong opinionabout, about what you think it's
about. And so, you know, I know it, it
feels different, but really, it's really the same.
(14:51):
It's just, instead of an immediate note and a redo or
something, you know, maybe it happens days later over Zoom or,
or maybe you didn't need it, youknow, you didn't necessarily
need it And we're just going to send it off and, you know, the
director is going to see what wesaw, hopefully.
And, and, and want to bring you in for a callback or a work
(15:15):
session or something like that. But that first take, I mean,
even when we were in the room and people would come in and say
anything you want to tell me? No, I want to, I want to see
your, your take on it. And so when we watch that self
tape, we want the same, you know, we, we want to, we want
that. And if the, if you're, you know,
(15:35):
as an actor, if, if you're making those strong choices and
having a clear, you know, a unique perspective, you know,
it's your imagination, you know,it's your, you know, that, that
either either it is going to be,you know, you are going to be
right for the role or, or in theworld and, and be sent off for
(15:58):
that role. Or maybe we'll say, you know
what it you know, not, not this role, but you know what, let's
have them, let's have them try this other one, or I'm just
going to remember them for the next project.
You know, and it's, it's not about did you, did you
understand the director's visionor what we're looking for?
(16:22):
Any of that get all that out of your head.
It's just, you know, it's, it's you based on the information you
have, which sometimes is more and sometimes it's not very much
at all, you know, and, but basedon that, what are you going to,
you know, what are you going to do?
You know, what, what are you going to do with it?
And to really make it, make it yours, you know, put your stamp
(16:43):
on it. And and that's what we respond
to. Yeah, I mean, unpopular opinion.
I personally, I love self tapes and I think there is some
benefit of not seeing your competition in the room and
having that distraction or that influence I guess of other
(17:05):
people's energy or what they're bringing kind of.
And you just get to be your unfiltered version of what you
have prepared. But I know the unpopular
opinion. No, I mean, look, I think it's,
you know, I, I think there are positives and, and negatives
too. It just is what it is, you know
what I mean? Which is probably basically
(17:25):
anything in, in life. And you know, when it's
interesting because I, I, I think, I think the industry was
maybe much, maybe slowly, but itwas sort of slowly moving into
this virtual world. Of course, you know, we yes, we
were doing a lot in person and now it's almost all virtual.
(17:48):
You. Know really all virtual and so I
know it, it feels a little different and everything, but
but again, it's the you know, ifyou really get to the like
again, what what we're really looking for and and and what you
need to do, you know, in that audition it it's really this
(18:08):
it's it is really the same. And I do think again, right as
you said, it's there, there are there are positives to it.
I know some people miss the in person feel of it.
Yeah, I mean, I miss being in the room.
Like it's fun. I don't, I don't think it
affects. I don't think it affects our
work as much as we would like toget in our head about it.
(18:31):
I agree. I agree.
I, I think, yeah, I was when it first sort of all went virtual,
you know, due to the pandemic. I in my, I, I thought, oh, this
is terrible. No, I, I was depressed over it
and thought, oh, it's, it's never going to be the same.
(18:52):
And then, you know, as you do itand yeah, it's, it's not, it's
not exactly the same. But even, you know, reading with
people over Zoom, you can find that connection.
You can, you can have those moments that I just thought
couldn't happen and, and, but they do and, and it does work in
(19:12):
the industry. Look, it's always changing and
evolving and, and we have to change and evolve with it.
You know, you have to be flexible and, and, and this is
sort of where it is and it's, it's.
So how do you, how do you masterit?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, hey, we are flexible
creatures. That's why we own the arts is,
(19:34):
you know, there there's so much fluidity and flexibility in the
in the business that we chose. Are there any pieces of advice
or tips or little Nuggets that you would share on the audition
process from the casting perspective?
Anything that's gonna take us away from what watching what
you're doing now, you just want to avoid that.
(19:57):
But that's really the thing. I mean, we were even, we were
working on a big budget feature and an actor sent in a tape and,
and it was, it was great. It was, it was a great tape.
And and you know, that night we were about to send it off and
the agent called and said don't send that tape.
Don't send that tape. You know, she wants to go to a
(20:18):
studio and, and really film it, blah, blah, blah.
And we said we, we really don't think that's necessary.
It's really a great, it's a great tape and said, no, that's
what she wants to do. OK, Albert, we, we respect that.
So she went, spent money, went to a studio, did the whole
thing. We got the tape.
It felt flat. For whatever reason, it just
(20:40):
felt kind of flat, but we knew that it was something she
wanted. So what we did was we called the
agent and we said, listen, I know you told us to hold the
first tape and you wanted to do this and everything.
I'm telling you that first tape is the is the one.
And she booked the job and he said, OK, we sent that to.
(21:00):
So, you know, and I just I tell that story to just say the focus
is on the work and the acting and what's happening with your
choices. Not did you, you know, go to
some studio and pay to have a better, better quality that that
wasn't the thing. And so, you know, in terms of
(21:23):
self taping tips, I think just, you know, don't overthink it.
I mean, you know, just again, focus on the work.
Just make sure that we can see and hear you and.
I think it's just, it's such a testament of the reminder of
trusting casting, of like knowing your eye and your
instinct. Because even her reps were, I
(21:46):
would assume they watched both tapes.
You would hope that they would see the stronger performance.
But yeah, I think it it's, it's such a good reminder as actors,
like the craft is what matters the most.
Like stay in class and keep working on the craft.
Yes, but that it's true. That's that's what we're looking
for. Yeah, I think a lot of people
are becoming great lighting technicians and and
(22:08):
cinematographers and it's like, but that's not what we're trying
to get a job on. That's somebody else's job.
Now. I'm obviously more familiar with
the LA commercial scene and you know, it's it's a hybrid now of
like in person and also I don't want to breeze past your Artios
nominations and wins both in commercial and theatrical work.
Congratulations on all of that. Since you are very strategic
(22:32):
with the commercials that you work on, what advice or insight
can you share on the commercial acting prep and their auditions
from a theatrical casting directors I.
Well, you know, the I mean that is one thing about working with
with Tom is the different commercials that he's done.
(22:53):
And, and part of the reason thathe loves hiring us is because he
really loves, you know, theater trained actors so that, you
know, there, you know, so there is sort of, you know, and, and
not to say that we're not searching nationwide.
And then sometimes we're doing, we're doing all of the US and
(23:14):
Canada. Yeah, we're doing full searches.
And so not to say that, you know, we're not, we're not
casting from all over the country, but I just find that
the the stuff that he tends to do is almost, I mean, it's
almost like a short film in in some ways.
(23:36):
You know what I mean? There, There's there's
something, you know, they're they're presented more that way.
The actors were looking for havethat sort of filmic quality, if,
if you will, with Tom, it, it feels similar, you know, it's
often very grounded and, you know, it feels very similar to
(23:57):
to casting a casting a film. But perhaps, yeah.
Yeah, that I think that was whatI was curious about because in
LA that is something that I see winning class going in the room
or even self tapes is it is it'sit's so much more real.
It is acting. It is where do you and the
character overlap? It is not this very smiley
(24:20):
version cuz I mean, I even askedsome friends that work in the
casting scene in LA about which headshots and my instinct was
the really big smiley 1, you know, show off the Invisalign
smile. And they're like, actually, no,
the other one cuz you can put a lot more on her.
And I think to me it, it's, it'srelearning and retraining my
eye. And I think it's beneficial for
(24:42):
everybody to kind of see how ad agencies everybody is, is re
establishing what commercials are and and customers are also
our main ad agencies like it. It has a ripple effect both
directions. And I think, yeah, I mean, I, I
agree. I, I never sort of, I was never
big on the, this is your legit headshot.
(25:05):
This is your commercial headshot.
This is your, I always just sortof felt that for me when I'm
looking at a headshot, I want toget a sense of you.
I want like your personality, you know, I want to get a sense
of your aura and what energy areyou putting forth.
And so, you know, again, it's not just, yes, it needs to look
(25:26):
like you, you know, but it's, it's, it's not even just simply
that. It's also like, is there
something happening here in, in your eyes?
You know, are you telling me something?
Are you giving me your energy? And to me that one authentic
shot works for everything. Let's let's stay on that for
(25:47):
just a second because I think materials, regardless of which
platform they are on, a lot of times actors get busy work
projects, be it they are assigned them or they assign
them to themselves. And I'm a big believer in
productivity is different than just movement or just, you know,
something. So I'm curious if there's
(26:09):
anything that you see that's really beneficial and stands out
positively to you on profiles versus perhaps something that is
not really moving the needle forcasting?
So for me personally, again, it's, you know, to me, there's
that one shot that probably should really do it all.
(26:31):
But if you have two or three shots, great.
I don't, I don't need 12 shots. You know, I don't, I don't need
shots of you as a lawyer and as a doctor.
And as of this and as of that, I, I want to get a sense of you,
you know, if, if, if you're a smart actor, then you can play
all of those things. You know what I mean?
(26:52):
I, I don't, so I don't, I don't need, I don't need yeah, all of
that. And same with the clips.
I mean, I think, I think you want to whether it's one long
reel or it's multiple clips, make sure that the first thing
we're seeing or if it's multiple, the first thing we're
clicking on is your strongest work, You know, and, and again,
(27:18):
even with that, you know, if youhave a a dramatic reel and a
comedic reel or all together, whatever, if you have both of
those things that then great. And if you have some different
professional clips and you really think it's it's great and
it should be up there than great.
But I think, you know, sometimesthere's again, 1212 clips and
(27:43):
there's just a bunch of stuff and it's not even it's not all
really showcasing you as as strong as some of them.
So I'd, I'd rather you focus in and say here, you know, here's
my, my three strongest clips to focus it in because that's the
thing we're, we're, we're going through.
There's, you know, we get thousands of submissions for,
(28:06):
for things. So we have to kind of make these
decisions fairly quickly. If we're going to look at some
stuff, we're going to look pretty quickly.
And so you want to make sure that you're, you're driving us
towards, again, your, your best work and the stuff that you
really think we need to see. Sometimes I think there's just
(28:26):
it, there's just too much there.And I think like you said,
though, I like the way you put that.
I think it's, it doesn't mean that if you have all that stuff,
I'm not going to pick you. But it's, it's not moving the
needle and it is possible. Maybe I'm missing something.
That would have been great for me to see because there were 10
(28:48):
links there and I didn't exactlyknow what I should look at and I
I looked at 3 and I had and I needed to move on.
Exactly. No, I think, you know, as
someone who who came from the theater and, you know, proud,
proud product of community theater, you know, we have this
misconception of you can play anything in community theater.
And I think a lot of young actors come into the industry
(29:10):
wanting to please and wanting toshow their versatility.
And it's like, you're not going to be right for everything.
It's better to be specific of what your top three or five
things are. So you're really right for that
versus being kind of genericallyclose and adjacent to more
stuff. And but that's just what I have
(29:30):
picked up through the years and believe me, when I showed up, I
wanted to please everyone. I'm from the South.
I wanted, I wanted to do it all.But lessons learned through time
and money. Having worked in so many mediums
and genres, do you have a favorite to cast or to be
immersed in the pre production process of?
(29:51):
I wouldn't say I have a favoriteto cast.
I, I, I feel really, I, I feel, I feel proud to be able to look
at all the things I've done and,and, and say that not only is it
a, a really diverse range of types of projects across all
(30:15):
these different like mediums andthings, but also within them,
you know, casting, you know, a big budget comedy feature and
then moving right into a horror film.
You know, I, I, I, I really lovehaving the ability to, to, to
(30:36):
work on all sorts of, of material like that and to not
ever feel like I was ever put into a certain box and said, Oh,
you know, he just, you know, he's the drama guy or he's the
comedy guy, or he's this or thator it's only TV or, you know,
it's so. And you know, I think, I think
(30:58):
ultimately, you know, the, the, the really well written material
is, is always exciting to immerse yourself into, you know,
when you're, when you're excitedto get that next script, you
(31:18):
know. Yes, absolutely.
You know you read it quickly because you're enthralled with
what you're reading. You know it's.
How do you like to get to know your film makers and creative
collaborators and build that foundational trust of taking
their creative vision and imagination and then helping
(31:38):
materialize it and make it a a visual medium?
Yeah, well, I think, you know, that that is really the, the,
the, you know, one of the most important things to do after,
you know, you, you know, you start with the script.
You know, you have your own as you're reading it, you know,
(32:01):
ideas start to pop in your head of, of, of how you see it.
You know who, who maybe you, yousee in the roles, But then that
really important piece is that conversation, you know, having
that creative conversation of what, how do you see the world?
What is your vision? You know, you know, I often like
(32:25):
to think of I, I often like to think in, in terms of colors,
you know what I mean? It's, you know, casting is like,
you know, you're, you're, you'repainting and but so, you know,
is this, you know, their vision?Is it, is it oranges and yellows
or are we, you know, Blues and purples, you know, but, but to,
(32:47):
you know, really get a sense andthen also to, to really hear
from them. I think it's really important to
get a sense of well, who are your prototypes?
You know, who do you, who do youreally, you know, and it can be
and honestly, sometimes we say, you know, alive or dead, you
(33:07):
know who just just to get a sense of like, if, if you could,
if you could have anyone in all of time play these roles, who
would that be? So that we can then just have a
better sense of how, how, how they're seeing it.
And then from there, you know, Ithink it's a combo.
(33:30):
I mean, in terms of as you're presenting, then I, I, you know,
ideas, you know, once you get into the process of it, then of
course you're, you're making sure that you are sending them
in terms of again, their prototypes, their vision of it
(33:51):
that you know, you're, you're, you're honoring that, of course.
But they are also maybe thinkingoutside the box a little bit and
saying, OK, I know that we said it, it's this, but this is kind
of a, this would be a totally different way to go.
Maybe, you know, and, and throw in some of those ideas.
(34:14):
And I personally don't, I don't like to, I don't like to ask for
permission to do that. You know, I don't like to have a
conversation before. Are you open to, I think, you
know, send the ideas? Yeah, yes.
And the ideas, again, make sure you're honoring their vision.
(34:35):
But they said they were looking for all of that, that you're,
you're you're doing that, but also throwing a couple other
things because, you know, you really never know.
It's a creative. It's, you know, going back to
like this is all, it's all creative.
It's always changing and it's evolving.
And that's the same with even someone's vision of something
like someone come in and just dosomething that you weren't
(34:58):
expecting because they really made it their own and it is not
how you saw it. But when that person comes in
and, and does it, it's suddenly theirs, you know, and they,
they've completely then just changed the trajectory of, of
the thing, you know, but I mean that, but that's part of the,
(35:18):
that is also part of the processand part of the fun.
So, so I, I like to just do it that way and hope that when I do
that, that is part of the gaining of the trust is OK.
I like that. Obviously he understood the
vision I had and that was reallyfun.
(35:39):
You know, that to see it that different way.
And maybe, yeah, maybe it does change the directory or maybe
they say that was fun. But I'm, I'm sticking with, you
know, I'm sticking with my vision here.
Balance of yes he hears me but also This is why we hired him.
This is his creativity as well that balance.
(35:59):
Yeah, I would love to talk aboutBull because you had one of the
rare gifts in our current iteration of of TV film to work
over 100 episodes on the same show.
And I'm curious what were some of the the gifts, but also
challenges of continuing to pushand and find new limits and
(36:21):
boundaries. But also once you've like burned
an actor for the show, then you can't bring them back even
though you love them. Things like that that I don't
think people think about that there.
There's so many gifts but also challenges with working on a
show for multiple seasons like that.
Yeah, I mean, I loved, loved my experience on Bowl I I I miss
(36:43):
it. I wish we were in season 11 or
whatever it would be now. But yeah, I mean, so, yeah, I I
mean, I loved bowl because it itwas often very large casts.
So in terms of, you know, thingsthat made it a child, a
(37:04):
challenge, you know, a challenging show to work on.
Was there a really large casts almost every episode.
And so but it was it was exciting.
And and because it was shot in New York and took place in New
York, then you also, you know, just were able to bring in so
(37:24):
many different actors in such a different, you know, variety and
the diversity and everything. And I just I love that.
I love being able to give that many actors jobs in terms of
like the multiple seasons. Yeah.
I mean, you, you know, we, we, we were able some of the shows
(37:48):
that go on for a long time. I think usually it's, it's after
four years, maybe some it's, it's, it's more you can start to
reconsider, you know, some people.
But at the same time, it was always awesome.
Such a vast pool of, of actors here that are great that, you
know, for the most part, yeah. You were for all of that time,
(38:11):
always casting new, new people. And yeah, I don't know.
I mean, you know, again, it was it was challenging because as a
as a series that the the pace, you know, it's it's it's very
fast-paced when you have a largecast all the time and you're
just constantly going and you know, and then sometimes I'm a
(38:33):
series, things can change last minute or you get the pages
right before. And so suddenly at 10 O clock at
night, you're like, I need someone tomorrow.
I mean, things like that do happen.
So all of that was always a challenge, but it's also part of
the fun. So, you know, it's just it's
part of the fun. But yeah, but Bull was a Bull
(38:53):
was a great, a great experience.And I, yeah, I personally miss
it. And I would love to to be on
another New York series to, to be able to do that again, you
know? The way that you all kind of
dance between raindrops of crime, comedy, drama and just it
was I'm sure those auditions in those sessions were very, very
(39:16):
fun to play and and try it different ways with the actor.
Yeah. OK, shifting gears, I would be
remiss if I didn't talk to you about anyone but you.
What was the casting journey like for that?
And and what I mean as an audience member, it was so fun
to watch. And it was just the ROM com that
we needed. And I mean, I mean, I grew up on
(39:39):
like Kate Hudson and Matthew McConaughey, like that iteration
of like ROM com. So it was just like, oh, we
found lightning in a bottle again.
What was the casting process like and, and the auditions and
and all of that fun stuff? Yeah, you know, another just
super fun experience. You know, Will Glock is
obviously a genius, you know, when it comes to to comedy and
(40:04):
was, you know, really great to to work with.
We were, you know, casting basedin New York for the most part.
Will was in either in LA or Australia, depending on the
role, you know, certain roles for the adult characters.
It was, it was lists. We were also reading, reading
(40:25):
people. But I mean, it was just, it was,
it was great because there actually was a, a pretty, a wide
range of, of, of cast, you know,in terms of ethnicities and ages
and, and all of it. And so we were really able to
just see a ton of people for, for all of those roles.
(40:49):
And, you know, working on comedyis, is, is fun, is fun.
It's like as fun as the casting process can be, you know, you
work on a comedy and then you, you know, just, you know,
getting the chance to, to laugh throughout the day and watching
these performances and the different things people bring
(41:10):
in. But yeah, no, it was, I mean, it
was just a, it was a, it was oneof those things where it was
sort of a, you know, get up in the morning and go all night
because as you're, you know, starting New York and then LA
opens and then as everybody's going to bed in LA, suddenly
(41:32):
Australia wakes up. Yeah.
So you know, that that sort of international Claire and time
zones and, and all of those things.
But again, it goes back to the, it goes back to, you know, being
a Capricorn and, and the the other side of things, you know,
(41:53):
I mean, I've worked on things where literally I'm, I'm setting
up a zoom and I'm, I'm listing 5different time zones, you know
what I mean? So that everybody, because
people are all over the place and you have to like make sure
that you know what time it is for everyone and.
What a gift you're sharing with them of like not making them do
the math, not making them as Siri.
You're just like, here is actually what you're supposed to
(42:15):
plug in. Oh.
Yeah, you, you have to, you haveto put all that stuff in there.
Is there any advice for auditioning for ROM coms versus
sitcoms? Because I know that, you know,
some films have a different pacing and reveal than say,
episodic spacing where we got tomove story in 42 minutes.
But any advice for that? I don't, I don't know that I
(42:38):
would say, I wouldn't say that it's specifically different
from, you know, I think that that that comes down more to,
to, you know, every project maybe has its own tone or, you
(43:00):
know, as you're working on it, you, you start to get a sense of
what the director is actually responding to.
But you know, generally speaking, I think just comedy in
general, there's a pace to it. You know, it's like a like a
tennis match and it's like tennis balls.
And if you you take your eye offthe ball for a minute, you're
(43:21):
going to get into the net, you know what I mean?
Yeah. And so you have to, you know, be
aware of that pacing. You know, it doesn't want a lot
of, you know, you don't want a lot of air in these things.
But. And, you know, I think you just
have to again. Yeah.
You know, if you if you can get a sense.
(43:41):
And maybe it's maybe it's the director or maybe it's the
writer, you know, maybe you you are able to get a sense of their
past work. And so maybe it gives you a clue
as to what what the tone and, and pace might be for a specific
project. When I would afford, I would
(44:01):
sort of say case by case, I would kind of focus it, focus it
there. But generally speaking, yeah, I
think, you know, again, there's a certain pace to it.
You want to, you want to keep itmoving.
You don't want a lot of air. You know, you never want to rush
anything just to rush it. You know what I mean?
Like you want to give everythingit's due, but you just don't
(44:23):
want sort of unnecessary pauses and air.
And you know what that you don't, that you don't need.
You want to think on the line and and keep it, keep it moving.
Absolutely. Just for fun as we wind down to
have a favorite audition story or a casting journey that you
went on with an actor, perhaps they read for several, several
episodes or several projects of yours and then ultimately all
(44:47):
the stars align. But do you have any favorite,
favorite story there you'd like to share you?
Don't know. I haven't thought about it.
I don't know about a specific. What I will say is just, you
know, I think I think that you know that just exciting moments
that that stand out are, are when you know, you have this,
(45:11):
this moment sometimes in castingwhere you know, you've, you've
seen, you've seen a scene done 304050 times and somebody comes
in and it's as though you'd never heard it before.
Where there's there's parts of it that you know that there
there are moments in the scene and you think to yourself, I
(45:32):
don't even think I've even really heard that line before.
You know, like, and there's sortof a magic in that, you know,
that somebody again, it goes back to had, you know, really
prepared. It had a really strong opinion
about everything that was going on and what they were saying and
(45:56):
specificity, you know, that they, they really, they really
found the specificity in in it. They really had a strong opinion
about, about all, all of it. And that's sort of a those
moments when they happen are, are just sort of magical.
You know what I mean? It's just it's, it's, oh, wow.
(46:16):
You know, I, I've, again, I've never heard it, never heard it
like that before. And so that just sort of stands
out without, without, you know, getting into specific people or
anything, but just, you know, that those moments stand out as
in my mind like I, I remember those.
Yeah, all right, it is that time.
(46:39):
Last question, what is one thingyou wish you could go back and
tell your younger self? You know, I would say.
Trust your gut, you know, just trust your gut.
You're, you're exactly where you're meant to be.
(47:02):
And yeah, and and just again have have that and and have
confidence in that. Yeah, John, thank you so much
for joining us on What's My Frame and and sharing your
insight and your clear love for not only the craft and the
process, but the actors that that work with you.
(47:22):
So thank you so much. Thank you, I really appreciate
it and had a lovely time chatting with you.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame to Stay in the Know for
upcoming events, I'm your host, Laurie Linda Bradley.
(47:44):
We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone today and What's my frame?
I'm from my casting director John Org John is a two time
Ardeos Award winner for outstanding achievement in
casting. Notable credits include Anyone
But You The Creator, My Big Fat Greek Wedding 3 International
series, The Swarm, and the last five seasons of Bull on CBS to
name just a few. Today, John shares his view on
(00:22):
the creative side paired with the business side of our
industry, along with sharing some great advice for adjusting
your mindset on self tapes and what casting is looking for in
your read. Now let's get to the
conversation. Hey John, welcome to What's my
frame? How you doing?
Hi. I'm doing really well, thanks
for having me. Thank you for being here and
(00:42):
making the time. We like to start every episode
kind of the same way. Just of what drew you to the
arts? Who are some of the influential
mentors or really pivotal opportunities?
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Well, I, I started as a
performance major initially at Fordham University here here in
New York. And so I, you know, was here in
(01:07):
New York studying to be an actor.
And while I was in college, I, Ireally would just want to see
what was on, what was happening on the other side of the table.
So I, I interned at both a talent agency and a casting
office. And the casting office, it was
Johnson Lyft casting. They had all the, you know, big
Broadway musicals, Cameron Macintosh at the time.
(01:29):
And I just, and also second stage and I really fell in love
with with casting at that time. I even extended my internship
for another semester. I didn't need to, but they
invited me to and I, I loved it.And they really, you know, they,
they really let me go on auditions with them, be in the
(01:51):
room. I wasn't even a reader at that
one. I mean, they seem to really
like, let me do things that, that I, I don't believe anyway,
that all the interns were doing.So as much as I was falling in
love with it, it felt as though they, they saw that in me as
well. So from there, I, you know, once
(02:14):
I graduated, I again, I, sorry, I've always had it in the back
of my mind that I, I really lovecasting.
I can see myself doing that, youknow, but I had just trained for
a few years as an actor and I wanted to just sort of, you
know, see, see what, you know, see what would happen.
So over the next few years, while I was pursuing acting,
(02:35):
what I would do is, you know, anytime somebody maybe was, you
know, doing a producing a play or a short film or something.
And if there was no role for me in it, I would immediately say,
let me just cast it, you know, free.
I'm just your free casting director.
So I was sort of always, always,you know, kind of, you know,
(02:58):
keeping myself involved in, in that way and adding things to my
resume. And so when I finally decided to
make the transition full time, Iactually had a little bit of a
resume, you know, and, and, and so you know, what, what's
interesting is, is at the time, ABC, this is going all the way
(03:21):
back to the writers strike of 2008, 2009, you know, and ABC
the, the, IT, it just so happened that around March of
that year is when I was looking to make the transition full time
and the strike had just ended. So pilot season was pushed.
(03:45):
So the stars aligned. And in March of that year, ABC
prime time in New York, where itwas looking for pilot season
casting assistance. So that was a you know, so that
so I sort of fell into television at that point.
All of my experience was theaterbefore that fell into TV.
(04:05):
And I ended up, you know, doing a couple of years as a freelance
for pilot season and also the talent showcase that they do
every year. I was the coordinator.
So I ended up for a couple years, you know, I think even
though as I was freelance, I waswith them maybe 10 months out of
the year. And then that ended up, you
(04:26):
know, at some point the department was changing, the
coordinator position came up. So I ended up becoming full
time, worked my way up to manager.
You know, that was, you know, about 7 years I spent at ABC.
And then, you know, around when the all the streamers were
(04:47):
starting to come into play and original content on the
streaming services and suddenly there was just so much more
going on. I thought, you know, this is
maybe a good time to actually leave the network and go
freelance and have the opportunity to just work on a
lot of different kinds of projects.
(05:08):
And, you know, so that's what I did.
And I, you know, started as an associate casting director.
I worked on shows like younger and royal pains and, and then
ended up doing the the pilot in first season of Ozark with Alexa
Fogle. And then that also brought me to
(05:31):
to Bull at at first I was the casting.
It was the so the cast director on the pilot and Catholic
Chopin. And then I was able for season 2
and then for the rest of that run, I was I was brought in as a
as a Co casting director for Bull.
And so that's sort of where it started.
And then, you know, continued with TV, but you know, more,
(05:54):
more films as well in the last few years.
Yeah, some commercial work, Bo theater.
I just love it. I, I, I, I do everything I can.
I I love to work on all of it. I.
Think the take away is John loves to work.
I do, I do, I do. And I've said that to people
before, but yeah, no. And I also really, you know, I,
(06:18):
I really, I love the process. I love actors.
I, I love casting and, and to me, of course, it's exciting to
work on high profile projects and those sorts of things, but
it's also really, really fun to work on, you know, downtown
theater or short films or ultra low micro budget, whatever it
(06:41):
is. I, I sort of, I enjoy, you know,
putting, putting, you know, putting that puzzle together.
What was your experience as an actor?
Because it was so fascinating towatch the thoughts and the
memories kind of run over your face as you're explaining that
story because you could tell youwere falling in love with
casting, but you had been pavinga road in another direction and
(07:04):
kind of wanted to at least honorthat.
And I think a lot of people can relate to that, especially as
like the the ground is continuing to move underneath
us. So what was the experience for
you like as an actor? And was there a pivotal moment
that you were like, OK, now? Yeah, I'm really, I'm ready.
(07:26):
I'm I'm ready to say goodbye to this and and really focus on
casting this my career. Yeah, I, I found that for
whatever reason, I was really I,I was into the pursuit of it.
I was excited to book the job, of course, but then I wasn't
really loving the work as much. And, you know, I do think part
(07:51):
of it was that, you know, I, I was doing, you know, regional
theatre gigs and I'm from Connecticut.
And so I, I got into Hartford stage and was doing their
Christmas Carol every year and then other, other things
throughout the year, which was awesome and an amazing
(08:12):
experience. But every time I'd come back to
New York, within a month, I was gone again.
And I just wasn't loving the lifestyle really.
I mean, I, you know, I, I love, I love acting as a craft, but
the, the, the sort of lifestyle business side of it of an actor
(08:36):
wasn't. So speaking to me, you know, I
am also, I'm a Capricorn and I really do believe there's
something to that in terms of mypersonality, but I, I need, I
need structure and certain things that.
And I think casting really there's a, a beautiful mix of
(08:58):
the creative side of, of, of allof this, but then also the
business side. You know, there's also a lot of
lot of lists and math and negotiating and, you know, deal
making and there's a lot of stuff that goes into casting
that is on the other side. And I think that that left
brain, right brain sort of thing, you know, really speaks
(09:21):
to me. Yeah.
And so I just sort of realized that, you know, I think I think
that makes more sense. And I, I want to sort of settle
in one place and sort of, yeah, being in and out and all over
the place and just wasn't, wasn't the life I wanted.
Exactly. Yeah, I know for myself, like
(09:41):
when I was considering like whenI was in university and was
considering this as a career, itwas different.
It looked like, you know, the goal was you picked New York or
LA and you kind of like landed there and you started working
towards shows and credits and you worked in a direction.
And now even those that are on ashow, they've got truncated
seasons or they're not there forthe whole season and they're
(10:02):
going to do a movie in Canada. And it's it's if it's OK for you
to have a Vagabond life, like it's great.
But I know that like for some people, it just it doesn't
drive. I am curious because you were
actually mentioned in a couple of other episodes by other
guests that were like John's casting eye is just so specific
(10:23):
and so superb. And I was like, OK, we got to
talk to John. We got to have him on the
podcast. Who are some of the influential
voices or those mentors that helped shape and craft what you
look for and what really holds your attention as a casting
director now? Oh, wow.
(10:43):
I mean, I've, I've just, I've, Ifeel so lucky to, to say that
I've worked with so many amazingcasting directors over the
years. You know, you know, going all
the way back even to that internship, you know, Tyler
Rubin was there at that at Johnson Live at that time.
(11:03):
So, you know, it started, it started, it started big.
But, you know, over the years, you know, obviously ABC was very
influential when I first started.
Rosalie Joseph and Jenna Murphy Butler and the absolutely
incredible Marcy Phillips, who then Marcie and I worked side by
(11:25):
side together for, for many years, just really just the two
of us, you know, that the officewas small outside of pilot
season situations and having, you know, extra people around.
So that's a huge influence. You know, Alexa Fogle was
someone that I, I, I loved the different series that she had
(11:50):
done. You know, I was so enamoured
with her work that I jumped at the chance to work with her.
And Ozark was such a amazing experience.
And, you know, I just love the cast.
We we had the pleasure to work with.
And Jason Bateman is as nice andfunny in person as you would
(12:11):
hope he would be, you know, so that was just a wonderful and
the writing was fantastic. Chris Mundy.
So, you know, it was just a wonderful experience and
obviously now the last many years, I think we're going on
nine years. But Kathleen Schopen and I were
worked together for all of that time.
We do a lot of projects together.
(12:33):
You know, I also had a chance, Cindy Tolin, Ellen Lewis, you
know, I and you know, The thing is, is you, you sort of absorb
something from everyone, you know, because I think with
casting, you know, the process is really kind of, you know,
it's, it's the same really. But when you work with all these
(12:54):
amazing people, they all have their own approach and their
approach is the approach. And so I think you, you know, so
you, you know, you absorb you, you take what you, you want and
you and other things you let go.And then, then, and then over
time, because the other thing is, look, it's all subjective.
So, you know, you know, I would say, you know, certain people,
(13:18):
we agree 98% of the time maybe, but there's sometimes that we
don't, you know what I mean? There is a certain you know,
it's it's subjective. I'd love to talk about what
holds your attention and what ismemorable for you in auditions,
especially in the current evolution of self tapes.
And where we don't, I know there's so much insecurity with
(13:43):
actors if like we don't get a chance to show our
personalities, we don't get to become three-dimensional for you
all. But ultimately the work is
what's the most important in thecraft.
But I'm curious what stands out to you and is memorable and
inspires you and and get you excited about an actor?
Yeah. Oh, you know, I really think
it's, it's, it really comes downto did you do your homework?
(14:08):
You know, did you, did you, did you really prepare?
Did you, do you have a strong opinion about what the scene is
about and what do you want? And you know, all of those
things, you know, bringing yourself though, it's, it's,
it's your interpretation, your, your vision, you're really
(14:30):
bringing yourself to it and, andcommitting to those choices, you
know, and really, you know, again and making those strong
choices, having a strong opinionabout, about what you think it's
about. And so, you know, I know it, it
feels different, but really, it's really the same.
(14:51):
It's just, instead of an immediate note and a redo or
something, you know, maybe it happens days later over Zoom or,
or maybe you didn't need it, youknow, you didn't necessarily
need it And we're just going to send it off and, you know, the
director is going to see what wesaw, hopefully.
And, and, and want to bring you in for a callback or a work
(15:15):
session or something like that. But that first take, I mean,
even when we were in the room and people would come in and say
anything you want to tell me? No, I want to, I want to see
your, your take on it. And so when we watch that self
tape, we want the same, you know, we, we want to, we want
that. And if the, if you're, you know,
(15:35):
as an actor, if, if you're making those strong choices and
having a clear, you know, a unique perspective, you know,
it's your imagination, you know,it's your, you know, that, that
either either it is going to be,you know, you are going to be
right for the role or, or in theworld and, and be sent off for
(15:58):
that role. Or maybe we'll say, you know
what it you know, not, not this role, but you know what, let's
have them, let's have them try this other one, or I'm just
going to remember them for the next project.
You know, and it's, it's not about did you, did you
understand the director's visionor what we're looking for?
(16:22):
Any of that get all that out of your head.
It's just, you know, it's, it's you based on the information you
have, which sometimes is more and sometimes it's not very much
at all, you know, and, but basedon that, what are you going to,
you know, what are you going to do?
You know, what, what are you going to do with it?
And to really make it, make it yours, you know, put your stamp
(16:43):
on it. And and that's what we respond
to. Yeah, I mean, unpopular opinion.
I personally, I love self tapes and I think there is some
benefit of not seeing your competition in the room and
having that distraction or that influence I guess of other
(17:05):
people's energy or what they're bringing kind of.
And you just get to be your unfiltered version of what you
have prepared. But I know the unpopular
opinion. No, I mean, look, I think it's,
you know, I, I think there are positives and, and negatives
too. It just is what it is, you know
what I mean? Which is probably basically
(17:25):
anything in, in life. And you know, when it's
interesting because I, I, I think, I think the industry was
maybe much, maybe slowly, but itwas sort of slowly moving into
this virtual world. Of course, you know, we yes, we
were doing a lot in person and now it's almost all virtual.
(17:48):
You. Know really all virtual and so I
know it, it feels a little different and everything, but
but again, it's the you know, ifyou really get to the like
again, what what we're really looking for and and and what you
need to do, you know, in that audition it it's really this
(18:08):
it's it is really the same. And I do think again, right as
you said, it's there, there are there are positives to it.
I know some people miss the in person feel of it.
Yeah, I mean, I miss being in the room.
Like it's fun. I don't, I don't think it
affects. I don't think it affects our
work as much as we would like toget in our head about it.
(18:31):
I agree. I agree.
I, I think, yeah, I was when it first sort of all went virtual,
you know, due to the pandemic. I in my, I, I thought, oh, this
is terrible. No, I, I was depressed over it
and thought, oh, it's, it's never going to be the same.
(18:52):
And then, you know, as you do itand yeah, it's, it's not, it's
not exactly the same. But even, you know, reading with
people over Zoom, you can find that connection.
You can, you can have those moments that I just thought
couldn't happen and, and, but they do and, and it does work in
(19:12):
the industry. Look, it's always changing and
evolving and, and we have to change and evolve with it.
You know, you have to be flexible and, and, and this is
sort of where it is and it's, it's.
So how do you, how do you masterit?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, hey, we are flexible
creatures. That's why we own the arts is,
(19:34):
you know, there there's so much fluidity and flexibility in the
in the business that we chose. Are there any pieces of advice
or tips or little Nuggets that you would share on the audition
process from the casting perspective?
Anything that's gonna take us away from what watching what
you're doing now, you just want to avoid that.
(19:57):
But that's really the thing. I mean, we were even, we were
working on a big budget feature and an actor sent in a tape and,
and it was, it was great. It was, it was a great tape.
And and you know, that night we were about to send it off and
the agent called and said don't send that tape.
Don't send that tape. You know, she wants to go to a
(20:18):
studio and, and really film it, blah, blah, blah.
And we said we, we really don't think that's necessary.
It's really a great, it's a great tape and said, no, that's
what she wants to do. OK, Albert, we, we respect that.
So she went, spent money, went to a studio, did the whole
thing. We got the tape.
It felt flat. For whatever reason, it just
(20:40):
felt kind of flat, but we knew that it was something she
wanted. So what we did was we called the
agent and we said, listen, I know you told us to hold the
first tape and you wanted to do this and everything.
I'm telling you that first tape is the is the one.
And she booked the job and he said, OK, we sent that to.
(21:00):
So, you know, and I just I tell that story to just say the focus
is on the work and the acting and what's happening with your
choices. Not did you, you know, go to
some studio and pay to have a better, better quality that that
wasn't the thing. And so, you know, in terms of
(21:23):
self taping tips, I think just, you know, don't overthink it.
I mean, you know, just again, focus on the work.
Just make sure that we can see and hear you and.
I think it's just, it's such a testament of the reminder of
trusting casting, of like knowing your eye and your
instinct. Because even her reps were, I
(21:46):
would assume they watched both tapes.
You would hope that they would see the stronger performance.
But yeah, I think it it's, it's such a good reminder as actors,
like the craft is what matters the most.
Like stay in class and keep working on the craft.
Yes, but that it's true. That's that's what we're looking
for. Yeah, I think a lot of people
are becoming great lighting technicians and and
(22:08):
cinematographers and it's like, but that's not what we're trying
to get a job on. That's somebody else's job.
Now. I'm obviously more familiar with
the LA commercial scene and you know, it's it's a hybrid now of
like in person and also I don't want to breeze past your Artios
nominations and wins both in commercial and theatrical work.
Congratulations on all of that. Since you are very strategic
(22:32):
with the commercials that you work on, what advice or insight
can you share on the commercial acting prep and their auditions
from a theatrical casting directors I.
Well, you know, the I mean that is one thing about working with
with Tom is the different commercials that he's done.
(22:53):
And, and part of the reason thathe loves hiring us is because he
really loves, you know, theater trained actors so that, you
know, there, you know, so there is sort of, you know, and, and
not to say that we're not searching nationwide.
And then sometimes we're doing, we're doing all of the US and
(23:14):
Canada. Yeah, we're doing full searches.
And so not to say that, you know, we're not, we're not
casting from all over the country, but I just find that
the the stuff that he tends to do is almost, I mean, it's
almost like a short film in in some ways.
(23:36):
You know what I mean? There, There's there's
something, you know, they're they're presented more that way.
The actors were looking for havethat sort of filmic quality, if,
if you will, with Tom, it, it feels similar, you know, it's
often very grounded and, you know, it feels very similar to
(23:57):
to casting a casting a film. But perhaps, yeah.
Yeah, that I think that was whatI was curious about because in
LA that is something that I see winning class going in the room
or even self tapes is it is it'sit's so much more real.
It is acting. It is where do you and the
character overlap? It is not this very smiley
(24:20):
version cuz I mean, I even askedsome friends that work in the
casting scene in LA about which headshots and my instinct was
the really big smiley 1, you know, show off the Invisalign
smile. And they're like, actually, no,
the other one cuz you can put a lot more on her.
And I think to me it, it's, it'srelearning and retraining my
eye. And I think it's beneficial for
(24:42):
everybody to kind of see how ad agencies everybody is, is re
establishing what commercials are and and customers are also
our main ad agencies like it. It has a ripple effect both
directions. And I think, yeah, I mean, I, I
agree. I, I never sort of, I was never
big on the, this is your legit headshot.
(25:05):
This is your commercial headshot.
This is your, I always just sortof felt that for me when I'm
looking at a headshot, I want toget a sense of you.
I want like your personality, you know, I want to get a sense
of your aura and what energy areyou putting forth.
And so, you know, again, it's not just, yes, it needs to look
(25:26):
like you, you know, but it's, it's, it's not even just simply
that. It's also like, is there
something happening here in, in your eyes?
You know, are you telling me something?
Are you giving me your energy? And to me that one authentic
shot works for everything. Let's let's stay on that for
(25:47):
just a second because I think materials, regardless of which
platform they are on, a lot of times actors get busy work
projects, be it they are assigned them or they assign
them to themselves. And I'm a big believer in
productivity is different than just movement or just, you know,
something. So I'm curious if there's
(26:09):
anything that you see that's really beneficial and stands out
positively to you on profiles versus perhaps something that is
not really moving the needle forcasting?
So for me personally, again, it's, you know, to me, there's
that one shot that probably should really do it all.
(26:31):
But if you have two or three shots, great.
I don't, I don't need 12 shots. You know, I don't, I don't need
shots of you as a lawyer and as a doctor.
And as of this and as of that, I, I want to get a sense of you,
you know, if, if, if you're a smart actor, then you can play
all of those things. You know what I mean?
(26:52):
I, I don't, so I don't, I don't need, I don't need yeah, all of
that. And same with the clips.
I mean, I think, I think you want to whether it's one long
reel or it's multiple clips, make sure that the first thing
we're seeing or if it's multiple, the first thing we're
clicking on is your strongest work, You know, and, and again,
(27:18):
even with that, you know, if youhave a a dramatic reel and a
comedic reel or all together, whatever, if you have both of
those things that then great. And if you have some different
professional clips and you really think it's it's great and
it should be up there than great.
But I think, you know, sometimesthere's again, 1212 clips and
(27:43):
there's just a bunch of stuff and it's not even it's not all
really showcasing you as as strong as some of them.
So I'd, I'd rather you focus in and say here, you know, here's
my, my three strongest clips to focus it in because that's the
thing we're, we're, we're going through.
There's, you know, we get thousands of submissions for,
(28:06):
for things. So we have to kind of make these
decisions fairly quickly. If we're going to look at some
stuff, we're going to look pretty quickly.
And so you want to make sure that you're, you're driving us
towards, again, your, your best work and the stuff that you
really think we need to see. Sometimes I think there's just
(28:26):
it, there's just too much there.And I think like you said,
though, I like the way you put that.
I think it's, it doesn't mean that if you have all that stuff,
I'm not going to pick you. But it's, it's not moving the
needle and it is possible. Maybe I'm missing something.
That would have been great for me to see because there were 10
(28:48):
links there and I didn't exactlyknow what I should look at and I
I looked at 3 and I had and I needed to move on.
Exactly. No, I think, you know, as
someone who who came from the theater and, you know, proud,
proud product of community theater, you know, we have this
misconception of you can play anything in community theater.
And I think a lot of young actors come into the industry
(29:10):
wanting to please and wanting toshow their versatility.
And it's like, you're not going to be right for everything.
It's better to be specific of what your top three or five
things are. So you're really right for that
versus being kind of genericallyclose and adjacent to more
stuff. And but that's just what I have
(29:30):
picked up through the years and believe me, when I showed up, I
wanted to please everyone. I'm from the South.
I wanted, I wanted to do it all.But lessons learned through time
and money. Having worked in so many mediums
and genres, do you have a favorite to cast or to be
immersed in the pre production process of?
(29:51):
I wouldn't say I have a favoriteto cast.
I, I, I feel really, I, I feel, I feel proud to be able to look
at all the things I've done and,and, and say that not only is it
a, a really diverse range of types of projects across all
(30:15):
these different like mediums andthings, but also within them,
you know, casting, you know, a big budget comedy feature and
then moving right into a horror film.
You know, I, I, I, I really lovehaving the ability to, to, to
(30:36):
work on all sorts of, of material like that and to not
ever feel like I was ever put into a certain box and said, Oh,
you know, he just, you know, he's the drama guy or he's the
comedy guy, or he's this or thator it's only TV or, you know,
it's so. And you know, I think, I think
(30:58):
ultimately, you know, the, the, the really well written material
is, is always exciting to immerse yourself into, you know,
when you're, when you're excitedto get that next script, you
(31:18):
know. Yes, absolutely.
You know you read it quickly because you're enthralled with
what you're reading. You know it's.
How do you like to get to know your film makers and creative
collaborators and build that foundational trust of taking
their creative vision and imagination and then helping
(31:38):
materialize it and make it a a visual medium?
Yeah, well, I think, you know, that that is really the, the,
the, you know, one of the most important things to do after,
you know, you, you know, you start with the script.
You know, you have your own as you're reading it, you know,
(32:01):
ideas start to pop in your head of, of, of how you see it.
You know who, who maybe you, yousee in the roles, But then that
really important piece is that conversation, you know, having
that creative conversation of what, how do you see the world?
What is your vision? You know, you know, I often like
(32:25):
to think of I, I often like to think in, in terms of colors,
you know what I mean? It's, you know, casting is like,
you know, you're, you're, you'repainting and but so, you know,
is this, you know, their vision?Is it, is it oranges and yellows
or are we, you know, Blues and purples, you know, but, but to,
(32:47):
you know, really get a sense andthen also to, to really hear
from them. I think it's really important to
get a sense of well, who are your prototypes?
You know, who do you, who do youreally, you know, and it can be
and honestly, sometimes we say, you know, alive or dead, you
(33:07):
know who just just to get a sense of like, if, if you could,
if you could have anyone in all of time play these roles, who
would that be? So that we can then just have a
better sense of how, how, how they're seeing it.
And then from there, you know, Ithink it's a combo.
(33:30):
I mean, in terms of as you're presenting, then I, I, you know,
ideas, you know, once you get into the process of it, then of
course you're, you're making sure that you are sending them
in terms of again, their prototypes, their vision of it
(33:51):
that you know, you're, you're, you're honoring that, of course.
But they are also maybe thinkingoutside the box a little bit and
saying, OK, I know that we said it, it's this, but this is kind
of a, this would be a totally different way to go.
Maybe, you know, and, and throw in some of those ideas.
(34:14):
And I personally don't, I don't like to, I don't like to ask for
permission to do that. You know, I don't like to have a
conversation before. Are you open to, I think, you
know, send the ideas? Yeah, yes.
And the ideas, again, make sure you're honoring their vision.
(34:35):
But they said they were looking for all of that, that you're,
you're you're doing that, but also throwing a couple other
things because, you know, you really never know.
It's a creative. It's, you know, going back to
like this is all, it's all creative.
It's always changing and it's evolving.
And that's the same with even someone's vision of something
like someone come in and just dosomething that you weren't
(34:58):
expecting because they really made it their own and it is not
how you saw it. But when that person comes in
and, and does it, it's suddenly theirs, you know, and they,
they've completely then just changed the trajectory of, of
the thing, you know, but I mean that, but that's part of the,
(35:18):
that is also part of the processand part of the fun.
So, so I, I like to just do it that way and hope that when I do
that, that is part of the gaining of the trust is OK.
I like that. Obviously he understood the
vision I had and that was reallyfun.
(35:39):
You know, that to see it that different way.
And maybe, yeah, maybe it does change the directory or maybe
they say that was fun. But I'm, I'm sticking with, you
know, I'm sticking with my vision here.
Balance of yes he hears me but also This is why we hired him.
This is his creativity as well that balance.
(35:59):
Yeah, I would love to talk aboutBull because you had one of the
rare gifts in our current iteration of of TV film to work
over 100 episodes on the same show.
And I'm curious what were some of the the gifts, but also
challenges of continuing to pushand and find new limits and
(36:21):
boundaries. But also once you've like burned
an actor for the show, then you can't bring them back even
though you love them. Things like that that I don't
think people think about that there.
There's so many gifts but also challenges with working on a
show for multiple seasons like that.
Yeah, I mean, I loved, loved my experience on Bowl I I I miss
(36:43):
it. I wish we were in season 11 or
whatever it would be now. But yeah, I mean, so, yeah, I I
mean, I loved bowl because it itwas often very large casts.
So in terms of, you know, thingsthat made it a child, a
(37:04):
challenge, you know, a challenging show to work on.
Was there a really large casts almost every episode.
And so but it was it was exciting.
And and because it was shot in New York and took place in New
York, then you also, you know, just were able to bring in so
(37:24):
many different actors in such a different, you know, variety and
the diversity and everything. And I just I love that.
I love being able to give that many actors jobs in terms of
like the multiple seasons. Yeah.
I mean, you, you know, we, we, we were able some of the shows
(37:48):
that go on for a long time. I think usually it's, it's after
four years, maybe some it's, it's, it's more you can start to
reconsider, you know, some people.
But at the same time, it was always awesome.
Such a vast pool of, of actors here that are great that, you
know, for the most part, yeah. You were for all of that time,
(38:11):
always casting new, new people. And yeah, I don't know.
I mean, you know, again, it was it was challenging because as a
as a series that the the pace, you know, it's it's it's very
fast-paced when you have a largecast all the time and you're
just constantly going and you know, and then sometimes I'm a
(38:33):
series, things can change last minute or you get the pages
right before. And so suddenly at 10 O clock at
night, you're like, I need someone tomorrow.
I mean, things like that do happen.
So all of that was always a challenge, but it's also part of
the fun. So, you know, it's just it's
part of the fun. But yeah, but Bull was a Bull
(38:53):
was a great, a great experience.And I, yeah, I personally miss
it. And I would love to to be on
another New York series to, to be able to do that again, you
know? The way that you all kind of
dance between raindrops of crime, comedy, drama and just it
was I'm sure those auditions in those sessions were very, very
(39:16):
fun to play and and try it different ways with the actor.
Yeah. OK, shifting gears, I would be
remiss if I didn't talk to you about anyone but you.
What was the casting journey like for that?
And and what I mean as an audience member, it was so fun
to watch. And it was just the ROM com that
we needed. And I mean, I mean, I grew up on
(39:39):
like Kate Hudson and Matthew McConaughey, like that iteration
of like ROM com. So it was just like, oh, we
found lightning in a bottle again.
What was the casting process like and, and the auditions and
and all of that fun stuff? Yeah, you know, another just
super fun experience. You know, Will Glock is
obviously a genius, you know, when it comes to to comedy and
(40:04):
was, you know, really great to to work with.
We were, you know, casting basedin New York for the most part.
Will was in either in LA or Australia, depending on the
role, you know, certain roles for the adult characters.
It was, it was lists. We were also reading, reading
(40:25):
people. But I mean, it was just, it was,
it was great because there actually was a, a pretty, a wide
range of, of, of cast, you know,in terms of ethnicities and ages
and, and all of it. And so we were really able to
just see a ton of people for, for all of those roles.
(40:49):
And, you know, working on comedyis, is, is fun, is fun.
It's like as fun as the casting process can be, you know, you
work on a comedy and then you, you know, just, you know,
getting the chance to, to laugh throughout the day and watching
these performances and the different things people bring
(41:10):
in. But yeah, no, it was, I mean, it
was just a, it was a, it was oneof those things where it was
sort of a, you know, get up in the morning and go all night
because as you're, you know, starting New York and then LA
opens and then as everybody's going to bed in LA, suddenly
(41:32):
Australia wakes up. Yeah.
So you know, that that sort of international Claire and time
zones and, and all of those things.
But again, it goes back to the, it goes back to, you know, being
a Capricorn and, and the the other side of things, you know,
(41:53):
I mean, I've worked on things where literally I'm, I'm setting
up a zoom and I'm, I'm listing 5different time zones, you know
what I mean? So that everybody, because
people are all over the place and you have to like make sure
that you know what time it is for everyone and.
What a gift you're sharing with them of like not making them do
the math, not making them as Siri.
You're just like, here is actually what you're supposed to
(42:15):
plug in. Oh.
Yeah, you, you have to, you haveto put all that stuff in there.
Is there any advice for auditioning for ROM coms versus
sitcoms? Because I know that, you know,
some films have a different pacing and reveal than say,
episodic spacing where we got tomove story in 42 minutes.
But any advice for that? I don't, I don't know that I
(42:38):
would say, I wouldn't say that it's specifically different
from, you know, I think that that that comes down more to,
to, you know, every project maybe has its own tone or, you
(43:00):
know, as you're working on it, you, you start to get a sense of
what the director is actually responding to.
But you know, generally speaking, I think just comedy in
general, there's a pace to it. You know, it's like a like a
tennis match and it's like tennis balls.
And if you you take your eye offthe ball for a minute, you're
(43:21):
going to get into the net, you know what I mean?
Yeah. And so you have to, you know, be
aware of that pacing. You know, it doesn't want a lot
of, you know, you don't want a lot of air in these things.
But. And, you know, I think you just
have to again. Yeah.
You know, if you if you can get a sense.
(43:41):
And maybe it's maybe it's the director or maybe it's the
writer, you know, maybe you you are able to get a sense of their
past work. And so maybe it gives you a clue
as to what what the tone and, and pace might be for a specific
project. When I would afford, I would
(44:01):
sort of say case by case, I would kind of focus it, focus it
there. But generally speaking, yeah, I
think, you know, again, there's a certain pace to it.
You want to, you want to keep itmoving.
You don't want a lot of air. You know, you never want to rush
anything just to rush it. You know what I mean?
Like you want to give everythingit's due, but you just don't
(44:23):
want sort of unnecessary pauses and air.
And you know what that you don't, that you don't need.
You want to think on the line and and keep it, keep it moving.
Absolutely. Just for fun as we wind down to
have a favorite audition story or a casting journey that you
went on with an actor, perhaps they read for several, several
episodes or several projects of yours and then ultimately all
(44:47):
the stars align. But do you have any favorite,
favorite story there you'd like to share you?
Don't know. I haven't thought about it.
I don't know about a specific. What I will say is just, you
know, I think I think that you know that just exciting moments
that that stand out are, are when you know, you have this,
(45:11):
this moment sometimes in castingwhere you know, you've, you've
seen, you've seen a scene done 304050 times and somebody comes
in and it's as though you'd never heard it before.
Where there's there's parts of it that you know that there
there are moments in the scene and you think to yourself, I
(45:32):
don't even think I've even really heard that line before.
You know, like, and there's sortof a magic in that, you know,
that somebody again, it goes back to had, you know, really
prepared. It had a really strong opinion
about everything that was going on and what they were saying and
(45:56):
specificity, you know, that they, they really, they really
found the specificity in in it. They really had a strong opinion
about, about all, all of it. And that's sort of a those
moments when they happen are, are just sort of magical.
You know what I mean? It's just it's, it's, oh, wow.
(46:16):
You know, I, I've, again, I've never heard it, never heard it
like that before. And so that just sort of stands
out without, without, you know, getting into specific people or
anything, but just, you know, that those moments stand out as
in my mind like I, I remember those.
Yeah, all right, it is that time.
(46:39):
Last question, what is one thingyou wish you could go back and
tell your younger self? You know, I would say.
Trust your gut, you know, just trust your gut.
You're, you're exactly where you're meant to be.
(47:02):
And yeah, and and just again have have that and and have
confidence in that. Yeah, John, thank you so much
for joining us on What's My Frame and and sharing your
insight and your clear love for not only the craft and the
process, but the actors that that work with you.
(47:22):
So thank you so much. Thank you, I really appreciate
it and had a lovely time chatting with you.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame to Stay in the Know for
upcoming events, I'm your host, Laurie Linda Bradley.
(47:44):
We'll see you next Monday.
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