167. Bille Woodruff // Director & Producer

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hi everyone. Today on What's My Frame, I'm
joined by director and producer Billy Woodruff.
Billy is a prolific film, television and music video
director. Producer.
Today, Billy shares his creativejourney from the early days of
BET to directing shows like Richardson, Will Trent, and
Yellow Jackets to name just a few.
Billy also shares why it was meaningful to him to bring Black

(00:23):
Lightning's story to life. Now let's get to the
conversation. Hey Billy, welcome to What's My
Frame? How you doing?
Hey, I'm great. How are you?
I'm good. I'm so excited.
As we were discussing, I have a fellow Virginia native with me
here on the podcast today. Yeah.
And I, I love so many of your projects, as I said, and I'm so

(00:45):
excited to dive into those. But for anyone who isn't
familiar with your career and the different chapters and
iterations of your creative process, could you share a
little bit of what drew you intothe arts and what keeps you
inspired and created? Yeah, I'll try to make it a
little bit succinct because my career in life has been all over
the place. But I, I was always interested

(01:06):
in the arts, you know, from whenI was very, very, very young,
from a little kid. And I used to, you know, I
wanted, I was, I always had these singing groups.
I went through multiple bands. I thought I was going to be a
singer first. This is from elementary school
all the way up until I think it was a 10th grade.
But you know, I was always interested in, in the arts,
painting, drawing, acting, singing.

(01:29):
And I ended up going to University of Maryland, College
Park. I had given up the idea of
singing and acting and my I ended up having a double major
in cultural anthropology and radio, television and film.
And while I was at Maryland, BETwas a lot smaller than they were

(01:51):
based out of the DC, Maryland, Virginia area.
And I was writing for the schoolnewspaper and my editor was
like, oh, they have these internships at BET.
I'm going to, to get one. I'm, I mean, I'm going to, you
know, interview for one. And I was like, oh, I'm going to
tag along. I want to interview too.
And so I, I went and I got the internship and that kind of

(02:15):
changed my life because I didn'treally leave because I, you
know, it was there were a lot smaller that, you know, as a
smaller operation at the time. So I got to, I got to do
everything, you know, I got to do everything hands on.
I got to work in a sports department, the news department,
lugging around a three quarter inch tape deck, you know, work
the camera, do on camera, work in promotions, work in sports,

(02:39):
you know, all the entertainment stuff in the music and music
videos. And so I just I loved it and I
just learned a lot there. So it was happening at the same
time I was in college, but I wasgetting so much experience, you
know, like hands on and also getting to just interact with
and meet, you know, everyone from like a Tina Turner to a

(03:00):
Spike Lee, Sam Davis, Junior Sade.
I can't, you know, I could go onand on and on.
It was really magical. I was really lucky and for being
in the right place at the right time and, and taking the right
chance and I got them to hire meas a production assistant.
And I had decided that I realized I wanted to direct

(03:23):
because all of the different things that I enjoyed seem to
come together with directing, you know, because I, I, you
know, I like to write and I, I like art and I like, you know,
telling stories. And so I started always pitching
these stories to be on the set, the making of like Spike Lee's
movies or like Lethal Weapon, because it's black entertainment

(03:43):
television. But like, if it's black person
in it, you know, something, whatDanny Glover said it, you know,
there was some Batman. I forgot who was in the Batman.
I did everything. I was just like, well, I'm doing
this because so I would just meet everyone and I would try to
either be on the press junket soI could talk to the directors
because that's what I was reallyinterested.
So like on Lethal Weapon, I wentto the press junket.

(04:04):
But Richard Darner, he was just amazing because I told him I was
really young and I I told him that I wanted to direct and he
told me if I came back at whatever time it was in the
afternoon, you know, that he would talk to me.
And now that I've, you know, been a director and done press
junkets for my movies, you know how tiring they are.
I just have to say what an amazing person he is because he

(04:25):
set aside time, you know, in that crazy day to talk to me for
like an hour, you know, and gaveme all this great advice and,
and I was on the set of a lot ofmovies and you know, so I
learned a lot that way and got my feet wet.
And then my actual directing, because I was producing at BET,

(04:46):
I ended up, I started doing EP KS, which are electronic press
kits, you know, on the side, which they're like a promotional
tool for up and coming for a newproject for an artist.
And so I was doing those becausewe weren't making very much
money and be back then. And I, you know, ended up, you

(05:06):
know, meeting a lot of, well, I'd already met.
I had a lot of contacts in music.
But then there's one group that I did their EBK.
They were like, you really get us, you've got to do our video.
So I got my chance to direct my first video and I had my college
roommates and everybody like we were pulling together at this
production company. I pulled together.
We didn't totally know everything that we were doing
with certain parts of it, but yeah, it turned out great.

(05:30):
And then I started, you know, directing videos on the side,
you know, for lower budgets and went on from there, you know,
And so that was like, Phase 1 was like interning at BET, then
becoming APA and working my way up to executive producer of
specials and original programming.
So I was developing a lot of shows, but I gotten kind of
frustrated because they weren't,at the time ready to commit.

(05:54):
Bob Johnson, who's president, hewould love the ideas, but he
wasn't really ready to commit tolike doing the original shows
that the scripted. And so I kind of felt frustrated
and I thought that I was going to.
I had AI had two gigs lined up. There was a EPK for some Eddie

(06:16):
Murphy movie, my relationships with time at the time.
And another was a Wesley Snipes movie.
I can't remember the name of either one, but I was like, Oh
my gosh, I can make so this is so much I can live for a year
off this. I was like, I was in, I was
going to move to New York. I found my place and I was like,
I'm going to do this. I'll be in New York and then
work my way in and the film companies will see how great I
am through the way that I do these and this is how I'll get

(06:37):
in And they and you know, once again, the money thing was an
issue at the time. You know, I was robbing Peter to
play Paul. So the money for the Wesley
Snipes project, the first part of the contract, they paid me,
you know, up front inside, you know, I know how to move the
money around and stretch everything.
So I had to pay a bunch of bills.
So I spent all that money and I was, but I was going to make it
all up. But then both projects fell,

(07:01):
fell through in the same week. And I was so scared.
I still remember. I was like, Oh my God, because I
don't remember. I think it might have been
$30,000. I can't remember.
It might as well have been a million to me at the time.
And it's still, that's a lot of money.
And I was like, whoa, I can't pay that back because I spent,
you know, like, and Wesley Snipes, the Angel that he is, I

(07:23):
do not know how he did it, but somehow he made it go away.
And so, but anyway, so that happened.
I got through that. My career wasn't ruined and I,
but then my plans weren't, you know, I was kind of like, oh,
OK, well, I have to like, figuresomething else out.
And then I, I got a call from LAReid and Babyface, who had the
face records and asking if I wanted to come to Atlanta and

(07:46):
work with them and run their music video department and
visual marketing. And so I said yes, because in my
mind they were so hot at the time and I was thinking, I'm
going to convince them to investin making movies.
So that was kind of my plan. And I didn't really, I had
gotten disillusioned with directing videos because I kind
of hit the ceiling and, and the music people, you know, there's

(08:06):
a lot of kind of little shady things happening.
I was very naive and idealistic at the time.
And I was kind of like, well, I just want to do movies, these
music people, you know, these videos, you know, whatever.
But I was very excited because of all the things I'd always
been interested in with music tobe involved on this other side.
And so I went there and I was hiring other directors.

(08:28):
You know, I was, you call it a video commissioner.
So I'd, you know, pull together,you know, you figure out what
the direction is and what the artist needs and you, you have
to, you know, get the right director and you have to, you
know, it's a lot of producing, you know, because you have to
police the budget and all of that and but then be creative at
the same time. And so I was doing that and I

(08:49):
was enjoying it and it was really, you know, awesome time
because we had Outkast and TLC and Toni Braxton and so many
artists and it was kind of like they were the Motown.
It was a new Motown, they call it a Motown of the South.
And it was just magical time, you know?
But then I ended up having to direct a video because LA Reid

(09:12):
hated this video. He hated the rough cut.
I loved it. But we had this deadline and it
was a 4th of July come. So Long story short, the artist
really trusted me because this particular artist, his name was
Tony Rich, the Tony Rich Project.
I kind of had patterned his image off of what I was doing,
you know, when I was trying to sing, because he didn't really
have an image and he just reallytrusted me.

(09:36):
So he was like, well, you've gotto direct it.
And so I, you know, and everyonein LA and everyone was like,
yeah, you should direct it. And so that was, so I ended up
directing it. And it was my first time having
a real budget. You know, it was a very healthy
budget. And the video just blew up.
And it was #1 everywhere. VH1MTV BET he won breast new

(09:56):
artists at the Grammys. The song was called Nobody
Knows. And so then my directing career
was reborn because then everyonewas like, who's this Billy guy?
Who's this Billy? You know, I'm like, I'm like, I
did here. I'm the same one that y'all
we're like keeping little low budget but.
Look what you can do with money.But yeah, they so then I started
directing a lot of, you know, music videos and I was reborn in

(10:19):
that way. Hadn't gotten close to doing to
doing movies because the record company, that thing was so hard.
And in terms of, you know, there's no, you can't do
anything else. It's all consuming And and then
I started my production company.I moved out to LA and I

(10:39):
represented other directors thatdid a lot of huge videos.
You know like Céline Dion my heart will go on Usher you make
me wanna Britney Spears several videos do something want to make
you happy Toni Braxton, I'm break my heart.
You're making me high. I don't know a lot of just a
lot. I had a very very good run and a
diverse career as a music video director.

(11:01):
I never can remember everybody Jessica something, but but and
then finally I got my first movie and my first movie was
honey was a dance movie starringJessica Alba and yes, and then I
got into movies and then I did abeauty shop with Queen Latifah
and Kevin Bacon and a ton of people and eventually I got

(11:25):
back. I got into TV movies kind of
slowed down and the business. You know, I always wanted to do
TV, but TV was very difficult tobreak into coming from features
and music videos at the time when I was trying to do it.
And my agents didn't want me to do it because back then they
were kind of like your feature director.
You don't do TV is very different than how it is now.

(11:45):
And, you know, but finally I gotinto TV and I've once again had
a very diverse, you know, thing everything from, you know, Fear
The Walking Dead to, to, you know, Elizabeth to Bridgeton,
you know, to Black lightning. And, and I've EP shows and been

(12:06):
a producing director. And but that was kind of my
journey. I probably left out some things,
but I've been in and, you know, I've been a producer, I've been,
you know, producing director, I've been a director, I've been
an executive producer. I've kind of worked and I've
been pressed. You know, I started off, you
know, interviewing all of these people and doing behind the
scenes on what they were doing and interviewing incredible
actors and, you know, film makers.

(12:27):
Do you feel like transitioning from videos to film and then
film to episodic? Were you starting, did you feel
like you were pushed back down the ladder somewhat from like
the career you had already established in one category when
you switched? Or did you feel like that they
honored the the work history andthe the body of work that you
were bringing with you They. Definitely didn't honor the work

(12:49):
history and the body. I'm not, I'm not a sensitive
person. I mean, you know, but definitely
not, you know, everything, you know.
It's just very interesting to me, like when I got my first
film and I remember when I was trying to get into movies, you
know, it was like, oh, you do videos.
You guys don't know how to do a schedule.

(13:11):
You can't really tell a story, you know, and I'm like, well, I
do tell a story. I just told a story actually.
It's very difficult to do what Idid.
I just told a very compelling story within like 3 1/2 minutes
that people are like resonating with and watching over and over
again actually. But anyway, and then, you know,
they do, you know, think that. And it is true to a certain

(13:31):
extent. I mean, everyone that does
videos doesn't necessarily have the chops to do narratives, you
know, to do so I I get it. But I just felt that in the work
that I was doing, because I always had my eyes on what I
wanted to do with my career, that I spent so much time
proving and showing, you know, my narrative skills, you know,

(13:51):
within like, introducing, you know, like, and just, you know,
having dialogue and having scenes and having, you know,
period and set pieces and blah, blah, blah.
But yeah, they didn't care. So like, and they always, they
just think also they being, you know, the studios for films.
It was very much like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You guys are just wild and crazy.
So I had to deal with that. And it was interesting to me.
I remember when I did get my first film, which I got

(14:18):
basically because it was about music videos.
Yeah, which I didn't really think of at the time because,
you know, you're not like, I'm just.
I was just kind of like okay, yeah, okay, but like he can do
this and the. Same sandbox.
It's a bigger sandbox, but yeah.Yeah, but it was interesting
because, you know, with music videos, you actually as the

(14:39):
director, you're kind of responsible for everything
because those, those schedules are so quick and the people in
that world, they're doing a video on money to maybe you must
have a one day shoot. So let's say it's a 2 day shoot
or it's a one day shoot and theyhave prep, you know, but it's
like Monday, Tuesday they're on your video, Wednesday, Thursday,
they're on somebody else's video.
You know, Friday, Saturday, they're on someone else's.

(15:00):
So you're trying to make sure that your DP, your costume
designer, your production designer, that everyone is
focused on your thing to get themost for what you need, but no
one is focused on it like you are.
And it's like that for a director of anything.
But specifically with videos, you have to do so much
groundwork. Like I remember, I mean, it's a

(15:21):
little different now because nowpeople in that world, they have
all these creative directors that do part of what I used to
do and we used to do. But it's like you do everything
like I come with my concepts, describe every outfit, every
hairstyle, how the makeup is going to look, you know, exactly
what the sets are like. I've, I've done all of that.
I've, I've come with all of these, you know, every.

(15:42):
So it really, I was used to all the references, you know, so
it's different. When I got the movie, all of the
department heads, they kept coming to the meetings and prep.
They were like, oh, wow, you didn't have to do all of that,
you know, because I had like allof these, you know, like stacks
and stacks of stuff because I'm ready.
I'm like, this is what we're going to do.

(16:02):
And they're looking at me like, well, that's my job.
You know, I'm supposed to bring it to you.
So that was interesting to me because I was kind of like, oh,
in some ways this is like easierbecause these people have more
time and you're getting them allto focus, but they're there for
it. So you have department heads
that are bringing their best andtaking their time.
And the people do it in videos too.
But like I said, it's such a quick crazy thing, you know,

(16:24):
that you got to kind of like yougot to just be like on and on
and on and on and thinking of everything.
And then knowing that these people that you're working with
sometimes are kind of like, oh, you know, they can drop the ball
because, you know, look, it'll be over by the, you know, what
are they going to do? You know, we're shooting the
day. Like I didn't bring the right
thing. But it's, you know, I found that
interesting because I felt in a lot of ways that music videos

(16:45):
prepared me wonderfully for doing film, you know, like I
felt like it over prepared me because I was so ready to be,
you know, prepared and, and havedone my homework and to also be
prepared to turn on a dime because you have to do that with
videos, you know, a lot of things that were stressing other

(17:05):
people out, You know, I'd be very calm and, you know, it'd be
like, why are you so calm? And I'm like, oh, cuz I mean,
you know, the things we deal with in videos, this would be
nothing. They're like, Oh, she's not
coming out of her trailer. It's just, I'm like, OK, I'll
handle it, you know, But so thatwas interesting.
And then once I, you know, the transition from film to TV, once
again, very interesting because the people on TV, they're like,

(17:26):
oh, you have such a long schedule on movies.
You guys don't have to move fast.
And I'm like, I just want to know when this happened because
I started doing movies back whenI was shooting on 35mm, you
know, and we weren't, wasn't, no, you know, you have to worry
about how many takes and you have to be, you know, worried
about what you how much film you're shooting and all of that.
And it's like, I've never, ever felt like I had a luxury of

(17:49):
time. Yeah, like I, I just think that
it exponentially, no matter whatyou're doing, I think if you're
doing like Lord of the Rings or you're doing, you know, you
know, a Superman, I think that obviously there are certain
things you're going to have moreroom because of the budget.
You know, they can maybe move something around and shoot
something another week. So I mean, to be fair, but
there's still always a pressure because it's just so much more

(18:10):
that you have to do. So the time I just in my
experience is kind of like I've always, I've never felt
leisurely, like I've never felt like, I know, you know, I have
visited sets of some really big directors who, OK, they do get
to do that. So I'm not totally being honest.
I've just never experienced it, you know what I mean?
Because I definitely have seen, you know, like where I'm like,

(18:31):
oh, so Michael Mann got to you. Wait, you, you're holding that
location downtown LA and that one you'll decide on the day,
you know which one? So OK, yes, there is, but that's
few and far between, you know what I mean?
It's not most of them. So that was interesting.
Like, you know, to convince TV people as a film maker, as a

(18:51):
center, as a movie director, it was like they're just very
concerned that you're not going to make this schedule.
And it's kind of silly to me because, you know, with TV
shows, I mean, unless you're talking about, I guess a pilot,
but most of these these are shows that are up and running.
They're like not in their first season even they have a machine
already. So it's kind of like, well, it's

(19:14):
really hard to mess up because the AD standing there, you know,
like, I mean, obviously anyone can mess up because you can just
be like, I'm going to do AD wideshots of the, but there's so
many things in place to kind of just not let you, you know, mess
the schedule up, you know. I mean, but anyway, yeah, it was
difficult because people just have to see you do it.

(19:35):
I guess that's been my experience with everything.
And then you do it and then everyone's like, Oh my God,
you're so good. It's great, you know.
Especially on those established shows, it's a well oiled machine
and everybody that's still there, they're excellent.
They're like, I've come on as a day player on various type of
shows. You're wrapped before lunch,
you've already filmed all your scenes.

(19:56):
They're like you can go ahead and go home.
And, you know, I think until you're in those worlds, you
don't realize like. It's muscle memory to everybody
you're coming into, yeah, creativity.
And then you know you're going on to your next thing.
I mean, yeah, I found that interesting because once again,
like with the movie, I'm pushingputting everything together from
the ground up. Yeah.

(20:17):
So we're putting it all together, figuring out how we're
going to do this, figuring out how we're going to make these
days happen and do this kind of camera work or what our style is
and how, you know, like, I see exactly like you said, it's a
well oiled well. They're not all well oiled, but
most of them are. But all of it to me is directing
personally, like I've, you know,many times people ask, you know,

(20:38):
like, well, what do you like more?
You know, I would definitely saythat I prefer the most directing
a movie because I get to do everything, you know, and I, I
enjoy that. You know, with TV, it's more the
writers medium now. It's become more like that over
the years. And so you turn in your
director's cut and now they've gotten us a little bit more
room. But you know, you turn in your

(20:59):
director's cut and then, you know, you see it when it comes
on. I mean, they're they're now new
rules, you know, where we can oncertain, I think it's our
dramas, you know, that you can on premium streaming and cable
that you we get to do another pass, you know, so we so that's
that's full. But still, even after you do
that, you all know what they do,you know.

(21:20):
So unless you're, you know, doing your pilot where you're
more involved or you're actuallythe exact producer on the show,
you're giving up, you know, so Ilike being involved the whole
time because I get to like, if I'm working with an actor and I
know that, you know, they're like, Oh my God, gosh, please
have my back on this, that, you know, this wasn't my, what this
happened that, you know, don't use, you know, whatever it is,

(21:41):
I'm able to do that because I remember all those things and I,
I'm able to see it through or even if they haven't asked me
that and the things that I can see where I know, like, I'm
like, OK, well, you know, I, I can't do those kinds of things
that I do on a movie. And so you're having to give it
up just like actors do, you know, do your performance and
then you see it, you know, like,so I had to learn to do that.

(22:02):
So I do prefer movies or doing aa show where I am involved
throughout where I'm also a producer the most.
But outside of that, directing commercials, you know, music
videos, film, you know, it's alldirecting to me.
I think that's so amazing. We're coming in to BET when it
was smaller and you had the opportunity to get so much

(22:24):
insight from different areas of the business.
I think that helps you be a better like well-rounded
creative. And I'm curious, being in that
melting pot with so much creativity and so many
incredible names and talents, who are some of like the big
mentors or creative inspiration?Oh yeah, career.

(22:44):
I mean, one of my biggest mentors who's just a wonderful
person and just has always stayed like a rock because, you
know, Hollywood people, they can't even help it.
You know, it's just a crazy, butit doesn't even mean they're a
bad person. It's just this business is
crazy. It's I'm not even mad at half
the people. They get a little crazy because
the business is crazy. You know, they're human.

(23:06):
But it's like Denzel Washington,who I met when I I don't
remember how I was so young and I didn't understand.
I was doing a behind the scenes on this movie that Spike Lee was
directing called more better Blues in New York.
And so BT at the time, you know,certain budgets, I pitched this
whole thing like, you know, okay, I can go on the set.
I can do this, you know, week long, these specials, you know,

(23:30):
on the making of the movie. And Denzel was like huge, huge,
huge. Not that he ever hasn't, but he
this was his hottest moment. And especially for our audience.
And like, I was like, and then, you know, get this Denzel watch
watching an interview. And I'd already done a bunch
with Spike. You know, they weren't as
excited, but they were like, sure, we're going to we'll pay
for you to be in New York in thehotel with the crew for a week

(23:53):
to do this. You know, we love your idea, my
bosses. So I get to New York, you know,
and I'm used to being on Spike set.
My crew is from New York. You know, we hang out.
Everyone knows it's on the set. So we're kind of we're around.
We're just like part of the family.
But the unit publicist who I've become friends with, who's the
person that sets these things up.
She I keep she's giving me theseschedules and she's like, you

(24:14):
can do this person and that person.
I'm like, OK, when am I doing Denzel finally, you know,
because he kept not setting up the Denzel interview.
And so then she like looked kindof like stressed out and she
goes, well, he's decided that he's in going to stay in
character. He's doing method.
I don't remember those words sheused, but she said that he's

(24:34):
staying in character so he's notgoing to do any press while he's
shooting. And I'm looking at her like, yo,
I'm going to get fired. I'm like, they're going to.
They spent all this money. I was like, I have to do this
interview with him because I don't know what to tell you.
I don't. So I'm stressed out.
We're sitting here. I still remember it like it was
yesterday. I'm sitting here with the crew
in this at this little table andkind of this loading dock area.

(24:58):
There's near a door that leads into the wardrobe department
where Ruth Carter has all of herstuff and all the clothes.
And I'm sitting here and I see Denzel walking towards the
wardrobe department. So I, I took my shot.
I shot my shot. I was just like, I ran over.
I was like, hey, and I introduced myself.
And I think about this now, I'm like, Oh my God, youth.

(25:19):
Like because I had no idea, you know, I hadn't directed.
I just knew stuff from my perspective, you know what I
mean? And I was like, so they told me
that you're not doing any interviews because you're in
character. But and then I went into this
whole thing like your audience, you know, your BET.
They love you so much with your fans and it means so much.
And I did this. I pitched this whole whole thing

(25:40):
around you and I'm going to get fired if you don't do it because
there's been a lot of I just said everything, Everything I
told you, I said to him. And I was like, I swear, I'm so
good. I said, OK, so yo, he's looking
at me. You got it.
I don't know him at this point. And now that you've stopped
seeing, I know I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so lucky.
Like he was looking at me. He was just looking at me for a
second. So now I know that he was

(26:00):
thinking I'm going to like, tearhim apart.
Am I going? To go in so many ways and.
Then he just said, you know what, how long will it take you
to set up? And I was like 5 minutes and I
ran to the crew, we set up the light, we set it up and he did
an hour interview with me and itwas just a great, wonderful

(26:21):
interview. And he was really happy because
as I promised him, you know, I had really great questions.
I always did great research and,and we became friends and he was
so supportive of me. And then later when I started
directing, you know, he was always supportive of me and I
see him socially and see him different places throughout the
year, but he's always been just one of the people with the best
advice and he's always been the same, you know what I mean?

(26:42):
Just always super encouraging and real, but just also just,
you know, like a person that made me feel like it didn't, I
never felt like Denzel was like,Oh, you're hot right now, son,
You know what I mean? It's like he always believed in
me regardless. And so it's a, you know, and,
and, and understands and just, so it's really, I'd say Denzel

(27:03):
was one of my biggest mentors and influences earlier on.
It was Spike Lee and and LA Reidwho gave me my, you know, my
first chance to have a real budget and to do certain things
and really believed in me and allowed me to explore my
creativity without limits. You know, So a lot of the great

(27:25):
work that I was able to do as a music video director happened
because of LA just basically saying, hey, OK, you're excited
about it. He he said that he would say yes
off of my passion and that he didn't even really read the
whole concept, which I kind of, I don't know that I love the not
read the whole concept part, butyeah.

(27:47):
But yeah, those are the ones, the main ones that come to mind.
I mean, what an excellent example of advocating for
yourself and speaking up and taking the opportunities that
present themselves. But also pair that with the
preparation. Because if he had said, how long
are you going to take? And then you're like, oh, can we
schedule this on Tuesday or something that that opportunity

(28:09):
has like just flown out the window.
And I think so often the creative mind, we'll shoot our
shot, but we don't have the prepwork ready like we'll.
And that's the most important thing is, you know, having being
prepared because you never know when you're going to get, you
know, those kind of opportunities and, and you're

(28:30):
right, the prep is the most important.
Yeah. I mean, you touched on this.
You've had this beautiful, very fluid career of working in so
many different mediums, different genres, different
styles of storytelling, different showrunners.
I'm curious going on to a new project, How do you bring your
creative voice and you know youryour visual signature, if you

(28:53):
will, to a project while also honoring the voice of the show
that you're joining? How do you how do you find?
You know, it's, it's interesting.
That's a delicate dance because each situation is different.
And so I had to learn, especially having been, you
know, I mean, as a video director where you've written

(29:14):
it, you visualize the whole thing and it's all you.
Then a feature director where I've either rewrote, you know,
I've developed it, you know, andI'm still, you know, I'm in
charge of the vision to come in,in the TV where, you know, a lot
of times some people don't want you to do that much like they

(29:36):
say they do. So you, that's what I mean by
the delicate dance, because you have to figure out, OK, do they
really want me to do my thing? You know, because then, you
know, because some don't, they kind of just want you to kind of
do what it is that they have. And then what I found out
overtime is that even with those, sometimes they're not
going to say yes when you pitch certain things, but you can

(29:59):
still often find a way to squeeze it in.
So like, you can still kind of because then when they see it,
you know, the showrunners, you know, or the producers, then
they're like, oh, OK, that's actually really cool.
But when you're trying to pitch it, they're not, you know, they
don't really get it. So figuring out the way it's, I

(30:20):
don't know how to really explainthat process, but it's
definitely a delicate kind of sometimes.
Then other times, you know, you come in and it's cool because,
yeah, they want you there for that.
And they're like, well, obviously this is the kind of
show it is, but we definitely want you to have fun or we
definitely want you to bring more of your, you know, so that
happens sometimes, but it just depends.

(30:41):
It's very different. So it's kind of like the
delicate dance that I keep mentioning.
It's it's kind of, you know, finding a way to still respect
the show, You know, just making sure that you're staying in the
framework of what the show is, but then elevating it where you
can based on the script that youhave.
Because also sometimes, you know, you might not be able to

(31:02):
do anything other than kind of just exactly what's already been
done on a show because that particular script you may not
have, you know, because then I think you hurt yourself if you
try to do too much that doesn't really fit the show or the
actual script, you know. But I've had a lot of success
and been very blessed to work with a lot of people that have

(31:23):
allowed me to, you know, have fun.
And that's when it's, you know, best for me.
Like, you know, going to do Bridgeton, you know, it's like
Tom Verica, who's the showrunner, who's also an actor.
You know, he's wonderful and he's just like, it's just
interesting. This is what I'll say.
A lot of times it's been the bigger shows, meaning these more
successful, bigger budget, very popular shows in some ways where

(31:47):
I've had more freedom. And then it's been shows that
are like maybe smaller that you're kind of like, you know,
you guys are, you know, lucky tohave me where they're like, you
know, giving you like such a hard time.
Do you know what I mean? So I don't, it just depends.
It's been so many different. So I just kind of come in and

(32:08):
you start feeling your way around.
And then honestly, you know, sometimes you just end up on a
show where you're like, OK, well, they're paying me and I am
going to do the best that I can with, you know, I'm never just
phoning it in. But there's a it's a version of
that because when they're beating you down so much and
then, you know, you can't, when you can see how something could

(32:31):
be better without it going over schedule, costing more money,
you know, you can see how easy. And they just aren't willing to,
you know, that that's a hard, you have to, I guess, know your
place and you're just kind of like, OK, well, they're just.
And that does happen sometimes. And so then I go into the zone
of, OK, well, I'm enjoying finding the truth in the scene

(32:53):
with this actor, you know, because I always find something,
you know what I mean? Because it's like, I love
working with actors. So it never becomes like a like
a, oh, I'm working on the construction site, you know, on
102° type of feeling. But it definitely is sometimes
where you're, you're just kind of like you, you have to turn
off a part of your creative muscle, you know, because some

(33:16):
people, they just don't want it,you know?
I think that's one of those key ingredients for these really
successful shows is they have learned to trust others
creativity and it becomes these beautiful, layered and really
authentic and and real mirrors of the world we live in shows
because they're letting other people bring what they bring to

(33:40):
the project versus trying to kind of like strong armor muscle
it into like 11 lane. I mean, and, and I think, you
know, there's been so much change and continues to be so
much change in our business, butyou know, the shows that
continuously rise to the top, I feel like they've honored the,

(34:00):
the talents and the, the creativity that every department
and every creative brings and itit elevates the project so much
more. But.
Yeah, so I mean, just because I'm a director, so I'm speaking
from that for any directors thatmight be listening and that
haven't, you know, it's a dance because you come in a lot of
times it's very frustrating for directors.
Like if you're coming from the independent film world where

(34:21):
you've been doing so much and you, you know, and you come in
and it's just kind of like you have to learn.
It's a little bit political, youknow, you have to figure
depending on the show, like I said, some of them, they're cool
and they're just like, but a lotof them it's like timing, you
know? So you have to learn how to kind
of be like, OK, all is not lost.You just don't understand film

(34:41):
making in that way because that happens a lot, you know?
And these show like where you'reliterally I'm talking and
there's like this blank stare back where I realized like, oh,
you just don't under you, OK? You don't even get, you know,
And it happens with actors whereyou're like the actor is telling
you, telling me, well, you know,I can't do that because this
wouldn't work because blah, blah, blah.

(35:03):
You know, all the and I'm like, you're right.
But and then when you go and you're trying to talk to the
writer and they're like looking at you like, well, that's what
it says on the page basically, you know, like, so they need to
do it. And I'm like it just, OK, I'm
going to try to explain it againwith the laws of physics, you
know, or whatever. So you just kind of have to,

(35:23):
it's just different, you know what I mean?
Because it's like you have to just it's an art to me and being
able to get through it without it becoming adversarial, you
know what I mean? Are two negative.
Like I've found a lot of times that I've, you know, I can kind
of test the water and put place where someone is on the scale of
their understanding of filmmaking, of them holding on

(35:45):
to just words as opposed to the reality of what now is supposed
to happen now that we're making it come to life Or in film, you
know, and knowing how to like, OK, that's where you're at.
So I'll just I'll hear you, but I'm going to go over here.
I'm going to protect the actor in this way and just do this and
then you'll see it. Yeah.
And then it because sometimes nomatter how much, no amount of
talking, you're wasting time, you know what I mean?

(36:07):
And you're getting off stairs. Do you realize that they're just
not going to get it? I could have already just tried
this. And then they could see it.
And then and then they're like, oh, wow, OK, cool.
Yeah. And then you're moving on.
Do you know what I mean? Sometimes I just got to see it.
I'm curious how in the casting process when you're watching
Selects, what makes you lean in?What excites you about an

(36:32):
actor's work and their take on the character?
And I'm just curious from your director's perspective and also
as a Co executive producer, yourinsight into casting that would
be beneficial for actors to understand in here?
For me, you know, it's obviously, you know, hard in
some ways for people now. I mean, in some ways that guess

(36:54):
it might be easier as well, but not being in person is I've been
doing it some, you know, so I remember we were doing all this
in person. And the thing about doing it in
person is that you can kind of get, you know, that immediate
the actor can kind of if they have a question, you know, you
do the back and forth. But so now that we're watching

(37:16):
these tapes, you know, I think it's hard for people to stand
out because it's like we don't, you know, people are squeezing
in viewing these things like homework because now you have
these crazy schedules and then it's like, oh, casting.
And then because of the way thatthe casting people have to put

(37:37):
all the stuff together, usually I'm crazy and prep.
I've been out scouting for hoursand hours, non step back-to-back
meetings. I'm tired, I'm hungry.
You know, usually at the earlierpart of prep and a schedule on a
show, I'm not getting the casting.
You know, when I have time, you know, when I'm kind of around
the office and doing things and maybe seeing the set, but having

(37:58):
a lot of time, it just ends up it seems like all the time that
the they send the casting like on a Friday night, you know, or
whatever the body. And I understand this is they
got to get everybody's taste andthey've got to go through it.
And, but usually I'm just letting for actors to know that
a lot of times by the time we get it, it's usually the worst

(38:20):
time for me as a human being because it'll be when I'm like,
OK, I can finally get something to eat.
I can go to the gym a little bit.
I have a five. I have 5 ounces of energy left.
Whatever it is, it seems like italways happens.
And you have to just be like, OK, no, I have to watch the
casting. So I've had to train myself to
not be unfair to these actors. You know, that I don't know.

(38:45):
I, I think that the people that stand out are the people that
are bringing magic, the people that get my attention, that get
me to forget that I was hungry or tired or, you know, cuz I'm
just like, Oh, that's the character, you know, and that's
the same thing as with them being in person, but it's even
more so I think with the tapes, because you kind of have to
just, you're going through. It's just, you know, sometimes

(39:06):
it's not the best system, you know what I mean?
But the good thing about the Orient tape is that you can then
go back, you know, you can see it and see it easily again.
You know, I can see somebody andthen I'm like, oh, OK, wait.
Well then, you know, and I can go back and look and look and,
and do that. But yeah, I mean, I'm just
looking for someone that feels like what was written.

(39:28):
And that brings me, that gets mefeeling like, you know, excited.
And it doesn't mean I could havean idea of what I thought the
character was. But I think that, you know, many
times somebody does something totally different and and makes
me see it different, you know what I mean?
And I'm just like, oh, wow, Likeso I don't, you know, I think
that just being the best, most engaging version of whatever

(39:49):
that is. And I know there's not always
easy because some of the things,the pages might not be just hard
for you to put too much into it,but whatever way you can feel
like you're engaging with whatever those scenes are.
Then that that comes across and and it stands out.
And then I'm not tired anymore because then I'm like, oh, I'm
writing. I'm like, OK, make up my notes.

(40:11):
And I'm like, good, you know, because of course I want to
cast. I don't want somebody good.
There's a difference when you have the casting time set aside.
Yes. Because it's set aside and we're
there. And so you still get tired in
those long sessions, but it's still like, you know, that's
what you're doing and you're there and you're making all the
notes. Then, you know, sometimes I've,
you know, know that it's just kind of like that.

(40:32):
And then I have to get it in because I have to get it to the
writers, the BPS and blah, blah,blah.
I didn't get into the studio. And then, you know, and you just
have a pressure on you. So sometimes it feels like
you're speeding through. So if someone's energy feels low
or they're kind of not engaging you, you're kind of ready to
just get to the next person because you're like, OK, I'm on

(40:56):
board. That's what I mean when I say
engaging me because of the way that we're now consuming the
casting, if that helps. It's communal, yes, it is still
collaborative, but it is not thesame environment that we used to
walk in and have, you know, 3 to5, seven people in the room.
You can't, you can't check people's energy.
There's there's a difference when you when you walk into a

(41:18):
room that you know, there's a giving and receiving of energy
and excitement and enthusiasm and all of the sincerity.
Yes, and you don't get that part.
And then also there's a way for me as a guest director on the
show that if I'm in that room, Ican at least interact with who's
there, meaning I'm talking aboutproducers or whoever and and

(41:41):
express more, you know, like I can kind of lobby a little bit
more for someone. Whereas it becomes a little bit
different because now that it becomes this e-mail chain, you
know, you're writing it, you kind of like, you know, people
the, the, the way you write, youknow, like if you want to
champion someone, like, you know, there's just so many times

(42:02):
when they're like, oh, we pick blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm looking at it like what?And I have to figure out how to
respond. Yeah.
In a way that doesn't make them adversarial and like, you know,
so it's easier to navigate that type of person.
I want to switch gears a little bit before we run out of time

(42:22):
and talk about some area past projects on Black Lightning.
You served as Co EP and director.
How did the project come to you?Wow, so Black Lightning and
that's Celine Mckill. Mark Akil is his wife and
producing partner. They gave me my first.
So like I said, it was very hardfor me to get into TV.
The very first network TV that ITV, well, I don't know was it

(42:46):
network is cable? Regardless, the first TV show I
got was The Game from Celine Mckill and Mara Brock Akil.
They were the first people to give me a shot to do TV.
I'm always so thankful to them for that.
So, you know, this is his show. I love comic, but he knows me,
so he knows that I have like a collection of 5000 comic books
all in the little bags together.And you know, so Celine was

(43:08):
like, hey, you know, I think you'd be, you know, great to
come do this show side. You know, I did some stuff in
the earlier seasons and then he wanted me to come and be the EP.
And so they're like family to me.
So that's just, it's just a wonderful, I, I've been very,
those kinds of situations are a blessing and I miss those kinds

(43:30):
of situations, you know, becauseit's just, it's just, there's so
much love and trust and we're just all there trying to make
the best, you know, creative thing that we can.
There's like no real ego, you know, it's just a great time,
you know what I mean? Like mostly a great time.
And production is still production.
And The CW was a hot mess because they shouldn't have

(43:51):
cancelled their show. I know Chris and he's such a
special actor and human being, so talented and such a just a
good person. What was important to you about
telling Black Lightning story? Well, I love.
You know how it mirror, you know, things, you know, for us
here in America, you know that the black community deals with,
but it's not just black people, it's everyone.

(44:13):
But specifically, you know, because our stories aren't
always and voices aren't always,you know, as loud or as you
know, paid attention to. So I love the creative way that
it was a comic book being with villains and you know, all this.
But at the same time, the underlying, you know, lessons
and messages, you know, whether it's about coming of age, you

(44:35):
know, whether it was about the community and what we need to
do, you know, to try to lift ourselves, whether it was about
relationships, whether it's about, you know, parenthood.
You know, it's all it was like so many different, you know,
kinds of through lines of stories that are universally
relatable, but with a very entertaining, you know,

(44:56):
framework, you know what I mean,of like kick ass stunts and
special effects and fights and you know, but but then at the
core of it, you know, it really is about a man, his family, you
know, him trying to navigate hismarriage, you know what I mean?
Like, and but then seeing peoplethat you don't always get to
see, like his wife's a scientist, you know what I mean?
Like just things to let people that don't always see people

(45:18):
that look like them, you know, be in certain situations that
way. All of those things were
important for me. You joined Season 3 of British
and that was your first period project, is that correct?
Yeah, you know my head. I get confused with the dollars
period music videos, but I thinkthat was my first period

(45:40):
project, Yeah. Yes.
What did that affect or altered?Everything, I mean, you know,
it's just a whole different world when you step in the
Bridget and like it's like I hadan amazing time, but it is
different in terms of like hair,makeup and wardrobe are in
control. OK.

(46:00):
Like you're, I'm sitting there going like reset, ain't nobody
resetting. They're reading.
And I'm like, and then I forgot because in London there is
something different. They say they don't and now I
forgot it already, but they don't say reset, It's something
else. So I'm like about 3 days in.
And then the AD says to me, oh, we actually say I'm like, we're
going to tell me that the first day.

(46:22):
And then Tom Baraka says to me, you know, yeah, Billy, I know
good luck getting them recessed.You know, he's the executive
producer only because it's like that.
They have an army of, you know, these costume, hair and makeup
people do these huge monitors. They're huge, like big, huge
that they're looking at for all the details, you know, of

(46:44):
everything. So it's just kind of a thing
like, you have to get used to that.
That was definitely I ended up getting some reason you know
because I was like I'm not giving up like because I'd be
like what a queen is sitting there.
What do you mean y'all like it would be something where she's
sitting on the throne. She didn't move yes.
Do you know what I mean I'm likenothing has happened.
She said like a few lines of dialogue and I'm like reset and

(47:07):
they're like, you know, and I'm like what that means?
And so they started laughing because I made it like a game,
but I was like, that means y'alldidn't see it at the in the
beginning, whatever you're fixing, it means it wasn't right
in the 1st place, you know what I mean?
Because I'm like nothing happened.
Like why are we? So it became a little bit of
like again, they would laugh, you know, when because we were
all cool. It was in in it was I made it a

(47:28):
thing, you know what I mean? Like I'm like I'm American.
I want my reset, you know, And so that was definitely, it's
just different because you have to, you can't rush the costumes
and the wigs. Oh yeah.
And the, and the extras of it all.
So it's just, it's a thing, you know, So you, it's just a whole
other thing that which, you know, look like I've done a lot

(47:50):
of, you know, huge productions with dancers and huge crowd
scenes and all of that. So that part what?
But yeah, you're the periodness of those costs, those particular
costumes and those intricate wigs, like, yeah, you, you're
going to go crazy if you think you're going to come in being
totally in control of when it's OK to roll again.

(48:10):
You know, they looked at me like, yeah, we hear you.
Anyway, I never liked. It thank you for weighing in and
sharing your opinion. Yeah, very bad.
Oh, she shifting gears entirely to Yellow Jackets because you
worked on season 1 and season 3 if IMDb told me right?

(48:30):
Yes. But there were several years in
between, like your episodes. How do you approach a show that
you've already you've already come and played in the sandbox?
You know the characters, know the tone coming back.
Are you, are you coming back with ideas to like challenge
yourself, challenge the actors? What?
What is that thought process coming back to a show?

(48:52):
Yellowjackets is like, you know,I feel like I'm part of the
family of Yellowjackets. I mean, what actually happened
was the first season I directed and then they wanted me to be
the producing director for the second season, but unfortunately
I couldn't do it because my mother wasn't well at the time.

(49:13):
And so it was just a timing thing.
So when I came back, you know, it was really hard because I
love the show, you know what I mean?
And then I, you know, it was kind of like, oh, I'm guys doing
so well. I'm sad I'm not a part of it.
You know what I mean? I wasn't excited to come back,
but it was different because things had changed.
You know, like I, when I went infirst season, that was
definitely one of those shows where I was talking about, you

(49:36):
know, the wonderful showrunners.They let me do my thing, you
know, like I had this script andI was just like, so she gives
birth to a chicken, you know, like how am I gonna I mean, it's
a it's a dream, but I'm like, how do I like?
But they let me do things and really like be free, you know,

(49:58):
and, and it was just such a goodexperience and the actors are so
great. And but yes, things have
changed, you know, like everybody's still wonderful.
But yes, it had become very successful.
So that is the difference when you work on the show first
season and then you come back tothird season and now it's become
like this hit, you know, and some, you know, younger actors
have grown, you know, like people have, you know, they

(50:20):
they're more so like I wasn't sure what to expect.
But actually it was still like the first time for me, you know,
like everyone was so excited to have me back.
I was excited to be there and I didn't really, I did need to do.
There were things that they had been the producers have been
worried about like because the second season they built a lot

(50:41):
of the forest on the stage because they're so far out and
they're out there late at night and it's cold and it's raining
and it's really far away, you know, so it's it's just a huge
hike and all of that. So they had done a lot of book
stuff on stage, but then they started realizing they felt
limited visually, you know, withthe movement and things, you

(51:01):
know, like, so I just, I had those notes of making sure that
I was, but I do that anyway. So it was, you know what I mean?
It was kind of like, you know, so I was like, OK, well, let me,
I'm using the drone, you know, like I it was just me making
sure that I was having enough scope, you know what I mean?
And feeling like it was moving just because I knew they had had
some concerns that they felt a little bit more claustrophobic

(51:25):
the second season. But yeah, I didn't know what to
expect. Like you say.
Yeah, because it's kind of like,well, is, you know, but but
everything was great. And you do have to just know,
you know, and be ready. I don't really ever really have.
I always talent myself with the script that I get, you know, and
I was a little bummed at first because when I got my script,

(51:46):
because I think this was happening like kind of right.
This was after the strike had happened, and then I was in a
position where all these shows that I was booked to do when the
strike ended, like I ended up not doing those shows because
they were like, oh, because everybody cut their stuff in
half their orders. And so like, I was like #12 they

(52:07):
cut it to 11 #9 They cut it to 8, like over.
I was just like, Oh my God, are you kidding me?
Everybody? So like, that was the first show
that I did after the strike. So I actually was nervous
because I hadn't directed in so long.
And so I was actually, I remember kind of like, oh, OK, I
hope I still got it. Like that's what I felt, you

(52:29):
know, like a little bit. So you know, I, I but everything
was fine but that I had that just because of the timing of
it. As we wind down, I'm curious,
with all of the creativity that you have gotten to express and
explore in your career, what is a creative challenge you still
want to take on? Oh, there's so many like, you

(52:50):
know, I mean, I would love to do, you know, something, you
know, on Broadway. I, you know what I mean?
I haven't done that. I would love to do something
like that. I I, I mean, I would love to do,
I mean, I did Black lightning. That's TV.
But I would love to do, you know, I was huge on comic books
when these things weren't a thing, you know what I mean?

(53:10):
And now it's become like to where people are sick of them.
And it's not even, you know, nowit's almost like, yeah.
Oh God, you know, overkill. And what is it?
I would love to find some kind of, you know, a way to do a
comic book theme movie that feels very exciting to people
that they get excited about it again.
And it doesn't just feel like you already know and it's just
overly affect whatever it is anyway, figuring that out, you

(53:33):
know what I mean? Like, I'd love to do this.
So I haven't done. I'd like to do, you know, Alfred
Hitchcock's one of my favorite directors.
I'd love to explore, you know, suspense more and I'd love to
do, I've done a musicals, but itwas like I did like a
Nickelodeon, like I did like rags and with Keke Palmer first

(53:54):
turned 19. So it's like for Nick.
But I'd like to do like a adult musical, of course, when I see
certain things, you know, like Dune, like if I were to able
like Dune, just like I just sat in the theater and I went and
watched it over and over again, like I had to be able to do
something like those Dune moviesespecially too.
Do you know what I mean? But it's just like, I'd love to

(54:15):
do something, you know, epic like that, that, you know, just
it's beautiful, but it's art, but then it's compelling and
then you can't wait and then it's over and you're like, no, I
got to see more, you know what Imean?
Or, you know, it's culturally like exciting, but that's still
dealing with our history and allthese other things for to get
young people like I'm talking about.
But that deals with things that a lot of our the younger

(54:37):
generation is not really even aware of with the Blues and all
this stuff. And they're getting like fed
stuff, not even realizing it because it's just a cool movie,
you know what I mean? And it's like, so like, and I
love that all these people just everyone's going to see it, you
know, like I do like to do things that people go to see
because I like to communicate topeople.
I like people to be so like, youknow, so that's why I bring like

(54:58):
something like that up. Like, you know, I watched that
and I was like, Oh, this is exciting, you know what I mean?
And I was like, oh God, you know, people love it.
And it's like, you know, and, and, and like, so yeah, I, I'd
like to. There's so many things.
And you just light up talking about all of just the the other
creativity. And I think that's that was one
of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is because you
have this prolific career. But you can tell like you were

(55:20):
one of those people that is justblessed with so much creativity,
like you have to get it out and.Like something?
That, like, feeds your soul. I'm so sad that our time is up.
We end every episode. You have me again one day.
What is one thing you wish you could go back and tell your
younger self? I wish I could go back and tell
my younger self everything's going to be OK.

(55:44):
That's it. Billy, thank you so much for
joining us on the show and sharing your heart, your
creativity and just your enthusiasm.
I think it's, it's something we need right now.
Just yeah, positivity towards the future.
I agree. Thank you.
Thanks for having me. Hi everyone, thanks for
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative

(56:06):
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
events, I'm your host, Laurie Linda Bradley.
We'll see you next Monday.

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