July 28, 2025 • 51 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by Writer/Director, Ryan Landels. This is a beautiful episode spotlighting the importance of community and finding your fellow collaborators.
Ryan is a Canadian-born American writer/director who recently sold his genre-bending thriller CUL-DE-SAC to Sony, with his frequent collaborator Jon M. Chu (WICKED) producing.
He is currently developing a project in the vein of PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN for Hobie Films, which got both Matt Shakman (THE FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS) and Joachim Rønning (TRON: ARES) attached in the pitch stage. Ryan is also writing a four-quadrant fantasy adventure for Electric Somewhere, and wrote the screenplay for JEM AND THE HOLOGRAMS – Universal's live-action adaptation of Hasbro’s toyline and animated series that was theatrically released worldwide.
In TV, Ryan wrote the multiple Primetime Emmy-winning BEAUTY AND THE BEAST: A 30TH CELEBRATION for Disney+ and ABC, with the hybrid live-action and animation tribute starring Martin Short, Josh Groban, Rita Moreno, David Alan Grier and H.E.R. He recently wrote and directed the hit original movies SANTA TELL ME and SUGARPLUMMED for Hallmark, with SANTA TELL ME becoming the No. 1 new Christmas movie of 2024 across all broadcast networks and streaming platforms. Ryan also adapted TOM CLANCY’S GHOST RECON: WILDLANDS for Amazon and Ubisoft, created and directed ABBY NORMAL for Disney Channel, and wrote and directed on three seasons of Hulu and Paramount’s hit streaming series, THE LXD.
Ryan is a graduate of the USC School of Cinema-Television, which he attended with the support of a scholarship from the Hollywood Foreign Press Association. His thesis film THE MIDNIGHT EXPRESS went to more than thirty festivals internationally, won the Audience Award at Slamdance and was featured in the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C.
Ryan is based out of Los Angeles and a member of the Writers Guild of America, the Producers Guild of America, the Directors Guild of Canada and the Television Academy. He is represented by Rob Carlson at the United Talent Agency and Mike Fera at Kaplan/Perrone.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hi everyone, Today and What's myframe?
I'm joined by writer director Ryan Landels.
This is a beautiful episode spotlighting the importance of
community and finding your fellow collaborators.
Ryan is a proud graduate of the USC School of Cinema Television.
His thesis film, The Midnight Express went to more than 30
festivals internationally. When the audience awarded Slam
Dance, it was featured in the National Gallery of Art in DC.
(00:27):
Today, Ryan takes us behind the scenes of projects like Beauty
and the Beast, a 30th celebration for Disney Plus and
ABC, along with his original movies Santa Tell Me and Sugar
Plummed. For Hallmark, where he was both
writer and director. Ryan's joy for the craft and his
fellow collaborators is evident.This is a really special
conversation I'm excited to share with you all.
Now let's get to the conversation.
(00:50):
Hey Ryan, welcome to What's My Frame?
How you doing? I'm doing fine, thanks.
How about yourself? I'm good.
I'm so excited for this conversation.
I would love to hear kind of theevolution of your creative
process, some of the pivotal opportunities and moments for
you so far. For sure.
Well, I was. I would.
I count myself as being very fortunate because ever since I
(01:11):
was a kid, I knew exactly what Iwanted to do, and that was tell
stories, specifically stories for television and movies.
So I grew up in Vancouver. I was one of five boys and I was
second oldest. So I could wrangle my younger
brothers into kind of these likelittle backyard epics that I
would shoot and really kind of cut my teeth as a filmmaker that
(01:33):
way. And that was kind of a passion
that I then followed all the waythrough.
I did all the kind of the typical stuff.
I've worked at a, at a video store when I was a teenager and,
and had this huge, I just desperately wanted to go to film
school and, and my parents were super, super supportive of that.
So I followed this passion all the way down to Los Angeles.
(01:56):
I went through USC film school and, and it was a terrific
education. It was, you know, I know that
for some people, their mileage may vary when it comes to film
school. I had an exceptional experience.
I still continue today to work with me, the lifelong friends I
made in that program. And then I was fortunate enough
(02:16):
to come out of it and, and get ajob because I needed to be
sponsored or else I would have to leave the country.
So I got a a wonderful job with Steven Summers, who wrote and
directed the Mummy movies and Van Helsing and GI Joe and just
the sorts of movies that I lovedso much.
And that was my real education. That was a chance for me to take
(02:41):
everything that I had learned infilm school and really escalate
it to the next level 'cause I was reading scripts, I was
helping develop studio movies, Iwas on set all around the world.
And then that really set me up for success when the time came
for me to take a risk on myself and go out on my own and start
to write and direct. So ever since that happened,
(03:03):
it's been a fun and crazy and wild ride and and has brought me
all the way here to you. So there you go.
That's my origin story in a nutshell.
When you were coming up through the business, who were some of
those mentors or influential voices that helped shape your
creative eye or your work ethic,your process?
(03:23):
Well, I would say Steven Summersand his producing partner Bob
Dusay were hugely influential onme not only as a storyteller and
a filmmaker, but also just as a person because they were, you
know, they were the kindest and most knowledgeable mentors you
(03:44):
could ask for. And it was great because
honestly, coming into the situation, landing in LA, not
knowing a single person, going through film school and making
all these friends, but take my first kind of steps out into the
industry, I needed to find a jobthat would sponsor me for a
number of years in order to be able to get a green card so I
could stay. And if I had ended up with
(04:06):
somebody who was, you know, not so kind or, you know, some of
these horror stories that you hear sometimes in the industry,
I would have no choice but to stay because leaving that job
would mean basically having to get on a plane and go home.
But no, I won the lottery with Steve and Bob because they were
(04:26):
like dads to me. I mean, they, they were so kind
and so caring and so supportive.They were there to answer any
questions. They were there to to kind of
carry me through this immigration journey.
Their production company coveredall of my immigration expenses,
which was something I never asked for, but they offered up.
And that's just the type of people who they are.
(04:48):
And in addition to that, they were also making these gigantic
movies that kind of the the largest scale that you could
imagine, which provided all these opportunities to go around
and be on set and see how the nuts and bolts are put together.
So I every single day thank my lucky stars that I ended up
crossing paths with them. And we still keep in touch and
they are just the best guys. So I would say that on, you
(05:13):
know, in terms of taking those first steps in the industry,
they were hugely helpful. But then also at the same time,
one of my close friends from film school was John Chu, who of
course has gone on to do such small independent films as
Wicked and Wicked 2 and Crazy Rich Asians.
And so John and I, I produced one of his student musicals,
(05:35):
which was a great education. But from day one, John has had a
very clear vision and been just the, he's one of my favorite
stories about him is that in film school, he literally gave
me the shirt off his back one day because I was like, oh, I
really like that. I was like, where did you get
the shirt? And he's like, you know what?
He's like, I want you to have itnow.
(05:56):
He was wearing another shirt underneath.
So it wasn't weird, but it was just like, that's in a nutshell,
was the type of guy who John is.And, and it's always, I will
drop everything for a chance to work with him.
We've worked together on many, many things over the years, one
of which being Jem and the Holograms, which was a film
(06:16):
course that we made for Universal, which was released
theatrically, which was a huge thrill.
That was like a bucket list thing for me.
So I was there on set every day.But really through development,
seeing his approach to characterand seeing his approach to story
and theme, those are lessons that I carry with me and
continue to remind myself of on every single project that I do.
(06:38):
And it's one of the reasons why John, of course, has gone on to
such tremendous success 'cause he approaches everything from
such a deep, emotional storytelling perspective, and
he's built up this wealth of knowledge that now we all kind
of get to benefit from when we go to the movies.
So I would say that those guys. And so it's kind of nice.
So I've had like industry peers,but then also a friend who's
(07:00):
gone on to be, you know, kind ofthe greatest heights that you
can as a filmmaker. And it's really nice to be able
to call on all of them for advice and guidance and, you
know, hanging out. Exactly.
Well, that's something that's one of the reasons I always love
to talk about mentorship, because I know hindsight's
always 2020, but I myself moved to LA not knowing anyone
(07:23):
because, you know, of course they were looking for actors,
they were looking for blonde actors.
So I came and it was so many years wasted prior to meeting my
mentor. And like, once you have that
mentorship and that community that starts building up around
you, the industry changes. And until you experience that on
(07:43):
a personal level, it's very hardto understand.
But it's, it's like all the lights turn on.
It's just, it's such a differentexperience and it's this version
of the industry that I think a lot of people have is the one
without mentorship and they haven't experienced that, that
welcoming that you, you get lifted up by your peers when you
when you're with the right people that.
(08:04):
So thank you for sharing that. Oh, of course, yeah.
No, it is, it's, it's really nice to because it's not always
that way, obviously. I mean, there's also that, you
know, there are not a, there arenot a ton of people out there
who are actively invested in helping boost others up.
I don't know if that's, I don't think that's specific to film or
not, but when you meet those people and when you meet these
(08:26):
champions of your work, you justwant to hold on to them as
tightly as possible because it'srare and it's and it's really
nice and it's and it's, and it'slovely when you can count them
as friends for sure. Now your career is a beautiful
mix of writing, directing, and producing.
When you are able to wear multiple hats on a project, is
there one outlet? One outlet that comes more
(08:47):
naturally? Or do you really enjoy the
variety that your career has presented?
Oh, I, I love the variety of it,which wasn't something that I
always thought I would. In fact, when I left my job with
Steve Summers and really went freelance and not knowing what
every day would bring because I've been with his company for
(09:08):
years in a development position.And again, kind of taking that
risk on myself and being like, OK, I can do this.
The uncertainty or the unpredictability was nerve
wracking, but then once I kind of got over that hurdle and
leaned into this and and kind ofembraced, you know, as cheesy as
it sounds, this idea that, you know, no two days are the same.
(09:32):
Once you lean into that and apply that to taking on these
different roles and wearing these different hats and things
like that, I think it opens up alot of interesting possibilities
in terms of what what comes the most naturally.
I mean, I guess a writing, because that's where I started
like as a kid, I would just sit and just, you know, pour my
heart and soul into these notebooks, putting together
(09:55):
these short stories. And that's kind of where I think
I separate myself a little bit. That's what has afforded me the
possibility and the opportunity to both direct and produce is
because I'm the one who's generating the scripts.
So that so that's a big, that's a big leg up.
So I'd say, I mean of the three,I love them all equally, but I
(10:16):
would say that that's probably the one that comes most the most
naturally. You never pick a favorite child,
but that's why I try to ask, like, which one comes most?
And naturally, because, you know, I think especially in
seasons of quiet or as the industry just continues to
evolve, it's imperative that youhave multiple outlets.
Yeah, be sure that you are continuing to.
(10:38):
Work, it is important. No, I mean, because it's, it's,
it's a lesson actually that I had to learn early on was that
you have to have, you know, 9 or10 or 11 or 12 plates spinning,
not all actively, not all like, you know, but you have to have
them all going at the same time.Because the horizon on some of
these things, it takes so many years for some projects to come
together that if you're just sitting around waiting for that,
(11:00):
that you, you know, you'll find yourself waiting a really long
time. And also it's something that
that actually Steve Summers toldme early on when I was working
with him, is that as a director and as a producer, everybody
goes through slumps. Everybody goes through these,
you know, these valleys in theircareer.
(11:21):
But he said you can always writeyourself out.
So as a director, if you if you,you know, if your project didn't
work out the way that you were hoping it would, or if you're a
producer in the movie just bombed to the box office, he's
like, at least if you can write,you can create something that's
undeniable that will give you another shot of success.
So that's, you know, and that's,that's what I try and, you know,
(11:41):
remind myself of. Yeah, every as I sit down
writing something undeniable. Exactly, exactly.
Now you have some really exciting projects in
development. Having learned how to
successfully navigate those rooms and opportunities, what's
something that would have been beneficial to understand
starting out? Something that would have been
beneficial to understand starting out.
(12:05):
I mean, again, I would say the volume of projects that you need
to wrap your head around is something that you need to keep
an eye on. Because I would say especially
when you're starting out, you'rewriting.
Let's say you're writing a script or you're putting
together your first movie independently.
Yeah. And you know, kind of by
(12:27):
definition, you have to pour everything you have into that
one project into that script or into that movie.
And it is it's all consuming andit takes over your life.
But at the same time, the first question that people are going
to ask when that project, hope for that script hopefully
becomes a big hit and success is, well, what else you have?
And you need to have answers forthat.
(12:50):
Now, sometimes just having a logline can be enough.
I've sold movies based off of log lines, but that does not
happen all the time. In fact, I would say that that
is incredibly rare, especially with the industry being what it
is today. So as all consuming as things
can be, you need to find time tomultitask and to find a way to
(13:10):
divide your passion among multiple projects, but still
have them all be excellent, which is a huge challenge,
especially as you get older, especially as families come into
the mix, especially AS, you know, as you know, you might
have to take on a job to like, actually support yourself and
pay rent and things like that. So it's a challenge, but it's
just something that needs to be understood if you want to have a
(13:32):
career with a real, you know, with real longevity.
I would say yeah. How have you experienced those
rooms and those opportunities change in your career?
Has it with success become easier, just more confidence
like you would think or because of the contraction and just so
many obstacles, especially over the last 5-6 years, is it just
(13:56):
kind of always feeling like you're starting back at square
1? Well, I would say that the
industry's in a constant state of flux.
I mean, with this contraction, it is, it's challenging.
I would say that I've been able to weather it better than some
degree simply because I'm mainlyin features, or at least in
(14:18):
movies. I would say, 'cause I do
television movies as well, but Idon't do a terrific amount of
television episodic, which I think is where the real pain is
being felt now. They're also making fewer
movies. But I would say that as a
feature screenwriter, I am accustomed to being out of work
from time to time and that and that I'm, I think I'm more
(14:38):
weathered to, you know, rejection and things like that.
Then then maybe some people who were in television rooms and are
just starting out, you know, andmy heart goes out to everybody
because it is it's such a challenging time.
It's a challenging time, even atthe best of times to be an
artist in this profession. And there are so many people who
are, you know, who, who again, need to need to just be, I
(15:00):
guess, reminded of the fact thatit's like this is just a blip
and that we will get through this and that there will be more
amazing work on the horizon. But but yeah, I would say that
in terms of the industry changing as a whole, I haven't,
I I haven't noticed it that much, but in part because I've
(15:21):
been trying to reinvent myself as much as possible.
Like I said, getting out of juststrictly, you know, theatrical
features and then diversifying into television has created a
lot of opportunity. So that I think has been the
lesson is again, it's kind of like not only have a million
projects on the go, but also tryand reinvent as much as
possible. Yeah.
Do you find that there is like aheadspace or a location or an
(15:45):
activity that is the most creative for you for like new
ideas to pop up? Oh, oh, I mean, I guess my
office, I say that with a bit ofa laugh because I'm actually
moving right now and I'm very sad to be leaving.
My that's mine. I've worked at home for years
(16:06):
and years and my, my Home Officewas like this like perfectly
curated little layer, my den andI loved it so much.
Now we're moving to a great place.
It's awesome. And and we, we pulled the
trigger knowing that I would have to leave this cozy spot
behind. But I would say just having like
a safe creative space has been that I can go into my office and
(16:29):
I can sit, you know, I try and keep regular industry hours kind
of like 9 to 7 and be able to bein there and sitting down and
feeling that spark of inspiration in like a warm like
safe space is great. There's that and then there's on
the Peloton. And so whenever I have a story
issue, usually weirdly when I'm on the bike, I will have a blind
(16:50):
pop into my head or I don't knowwhat it is about that device,
but I love that. I'm drinking the Peloton
kool-aid too. There's something so.
Great. I mean, every time I get off of
it, I'm like that line from Legally Blonde about the
endorphins, like endorphins makeyou happy.
And I'm just like, sometimes youjust got to put it on full blast
volume, turn the instructor downand just blast it.
(17:13):
And yeah, now I'm unsponsored at.
Look at that. We're gonna have to follow each
other. Yes, which is really weird.
The funniest thing to me about Peloton, it's a total tangent,
but that there's a camera built into the bike and I don't know
if you've ever. I've ever like worked out with
someone. My brother-in-law, like, beamed
in one day and it's like, it's the weirdest thing because it's
(17:33):
the most singularly unflatteringangle while you're drenched in
sweat and panting away and it's just like, it's a very odd thing
to build into a workout device. But maybe some people love it,
so I don't. Know I it the way that the
camera is placed it feels like like Facetiming with like your
(17:56):
grandparent or something like itfeels like it would be that kind
of an angle and I'm like yeah. It's just all, it's all double
chance. It's.
All, yeah, just all chance. Great.
Yeah. But anyway, I digress.
I digress. So, OK, going back to like your
Home Office in your creative space, fighting can be a very
isolating craft in our industry sometimes.
(18:19):
And I'm curious, how did you find like your trusted
collaborators or those that you share your scripts with to get
feedback that is supportive but also critical but constructive?
Because I think sometimes, especially for young writers,
they take a lot in and then all of a sudden their work doesn't
look like their work anymore. Well, yeah, I would say that the
(18:43):
risk there for young writers is actually twofold.
I would say that, you know, whenI was starting out, I handed the
script off to somebody who I worked with it at Summers
Company, at Steve Summers Production Company.
And he took one look at the script, not even like reading
it. He just like looked at it as as
(19:04):
a document and said, do you wantnotes or do you just want to
hear that it's good, Which was areally valuable question because
I was kind of like, well, of course I want to hear that It's
good. It's great.
I wrote it. It's genius.
But you know, his thing was cut straight to the heart of what a
lot of people I think are hopingfor when they hand their work
(19:26):
off to someone or what readers might expect to to give to them
when, when they say, please lookat this because you are you're
making yourself vulnerable. You're putting this thing out
there. You've put all your your passion
into. And you know, sometimes readers
are your friends are like, oh, it's great.
It's so genius. But there might be real
fundamental problems with your script.
(19:47):
And so it does you no good to hear that it's great.
So I would sit so that usually when I ask for feedback from
friends, I'm kind of like, I don't want to hear that it's
good. I want to hear what's wrong with
it. So, you know, I'm, I've got very
thick skin. It's totally fine.
Just just tell me what you thinkin terms of their script not
looking like their script anymore.
(20:07):
I would say that that's that would be a risk, but maybe also
a good thing. So it depends on the script.
Because if the issue is, is thatthey're simply taking every
note. You know, again, one of the most
valuable pieces of career advicethat I got was, again, working
at Steve's company, because I worked there for seven years.
(20:28):
We looked at thousands of scripts and we developed tons of
studio movies, a handful of which got made, which were super
fun. And I suggest that everybody
goes out and checks out Steve's movies.
They're so great, and a bunch that didn't.
But one of the things was is that when we would give notes to
writers, the amount of respect that we would have for writers
(20:49):
who did all the notes would diminish in our eyes because it
meant that they didn't have a point of view.
And so when we provided feedbackand notes, it wasn't a mandate.
It was simply saying, here's something to explore that might
make this grip better, but not all of the notes should have
been done. And so it's like, so it would,
(21:11):
you know, our hearts would sink a little bit when we got back a
draft saying, I did all the notes.
It's kind of like, well, do the ones that resonate with you that
you know in your heart because you as a, as a screenwriter, are
the sole guardian of the story. It's your job to protect the
integrity of the story all the way through the process.
So it doesn't matter if it's a small independent film or studio
(21:34):
film, you don't need to do all the notes.
So, so that is something I guesswould be the other end of it.
So it's like tell people that you don't want to hear that it's
good. And then when they tell you that
it's bad, take into account or that it needs work.
Take into account where their feedback is coming from.
And but also see if it holds anywater for you.
(21:56):
And if it doesn't, then just don't do the note.
And you know what? They won't get mad.
They really won't. If they, if they come back a
couple times and say, we really need you to do this, then you,
you have to find a way to do thegood version of it.
But but you really don't need todo all the notes.
Yeah, I I think that's somethingso important for, for young
writers especially to hear because, you know, there's so
(22:18):
many people on TikTok and, and social media and webinars that,
you know, they're selling screenwriting services and, and
consulting and it is such AI want to choose my words wisely.
Scam it can be, you have to watch that.
(22:42):
I mean, there was one that when I saw the number at my jaw
literally dropped. I was like, who can afford that
in this economy? Like you would have to be
successfully making films to be able to afford this service to
the but anyway, I digress. But I think it's so important
because it's it's that age-old problem.
As creatives coming up, we want to please, we want, we want to
(23:05):
do what is asked. We want to do that, yes.
And, and I think especially whenyou're writing and you know
these characters better than anyone else, they are your
little world to protect. I think that's such a valuable
piece of advice to know what to take and what notes to say.
Thank you. I'll keep that for.
(23:25):
Sure. I mean, the other thing would
be, and it probably goes withoutsaying, but if you go out to 6
friends, the feedback is going to be all across the board.
But if there's obviously, if there's notes that keep coming
up, those are the ones to hone in on, to pay attention to.
But aside from that, yeah, you just kind of have to follow your
gut and your instincts and then see where the story takes you.
Yeah. Well, going off of that, when
(23:46):
you've spent so much time with these characters and this world,
when you yourself are pitching aproject, how do you pick and
choose what parts of the storiesto highlight and share those
meetings? And how do you know and, and
trust they're going to, they're going to get to that in the deck
or they're going to read the script.
What what do you put for front and and what do you trust that
(24:09):
they will get to in their own time?
Yeah, this is tricky because I have to say I really love
pitching. I love pitching very, very much.
And because I get really excitedabout my stories.
And so I feel like pitching is your, is your chance to, you
know, you can have a bit of a performative element to it.
It's got kind of like, it's a combination of kind of like a
book report and local theatre. I mean, it's like, you know,
(24:32):
it's got like, if you have to bring all that passion to it,
not local theatre or like a monologue, like a one man show.
So I really like because I get very, very passionate about my
work. And it's one of the things that
I don't love so much about, you know, this kind of more zoom
culture that's that's come out of the pandemic is that it's,
(24:54):
it's, it's more of a rarity to get into a room together and be
able to kind of like share that passion.
But regardless whether it's overZoom or whether it's in person,
I mean, my approach varies a little bit because my, my
pitches are quite in depth. Sometimes I think I would like,
(25:14):
oh, I would just really love to crunch this down into like a
tidy little like 10 minute thing.
But I mean, I've given, I find it's all over the map.
It just depends on how great your story is.
Because I've sold pitches that were 25 minutes long, which is
insane. Don't give a 25 minute pitch.
But some of those projects sold.I've given pitches that were
(25:35):
closer to 10 minutes that didn'tsell.
And part of it is is like what you're talking about is finding
finding the best pieces to put into it.
So it's like, you know, I would say that, you know, for what
it's worth, the general sort of pitch that I do, I top line it
(25:56):
very quickly establish why I have some why I want to tell the
story, why this why I'm the guy to tell the story.
Tidy it up with a log line and alittle bit on theme.
And then what you really want todo is just front load it as much
as possible to to get the characters firmly established.
Any picture, you're going to spend half the time talking
about the characters and then itkind of diminishes as you get on
(26:19):
where then you tidy up the finale.
Like the third act can really even be as short as just a
couple sentences unless you're tying up a lot of thematic
threads. But what you want to do is you
want to touch on three set pieces, you know, typically
whether they're dramatic or somegiant sci-fi thing, and then
just track the characters emotional arcs as closely as
possible. It's the same thing as writing a
(26:40):
screenplay. As long as you can make it as
emotional as possible, people will lean in and will pay
attention. Yeah.
When you have had such a period of time of getting to know these
characters through writing them,what do you like your
involvement to be in the castingprocess, especially if you're
coming on as as the director? Well, of course, I mean, I love
especially as the writer, I lovebeing as involved as in casting
(27:03):
as possible, but it's a bit of asliding scale depending on the
project, honestly, depends on who's holding the purse strings.
And especially like in television, you have, you can
make your recommendations, but in some cases, you know, you're
even as director, the network will override and say, well, we
(27:24):
really see something in this person, in which case that's
fine because they might see something.
You know, it's your job is to elevate what's on the page and
to execute to give them something and, you know, but
also something for yourself thatyou really want to see and, and
wonderful things can come out ofit.
But you know, if I had, of course, if I think anybody who's
a director probably has a bit ofa control freak aspect to them,
(27:48):
it would be great to be able to say I want exactly these people
and get them all the time. The reality is you it's, it's a
bit, it's a bit of a partnership, especially in
television, especially in television, it's more of a
conversation. Which is also to say I love
everyone who has been in all of my television projects, by the
way. So it's not like I ever felt
like I got a raw deal ever. I love everyone in my projects,
(28:09):
genuinely. Literally, I have it written
down here for later when we're talking about some of the
Hallmark holiday, but Aaron and Janelle were, I mean just.
Chefs. Oh my God, yeah.
They're the best. They've suspended disbelief and
it's they live in this magical world and they take you along
with it. And it's, I think that's
something that makes those filmsso special because they are
(28:29):
this, I mean, as someone who proudly grew up on Disney films
as a child, like it's, you know,that that magic is needed in
day-to-day life. It's just, oh.
For sure. No, it's so vital.
It's the reason why they make somany of those movies and why
they're so successful. Yeah, No, I could talk about
Aaron and Janelle for days. I mean, same thing with like
Maggie and Daniel. And I mean, and also to be
clear, when I'm talking about the casting, I'm talking more
(28:51):
about kind of like the day player, the leads.
We've always been in lockstep. It's it's kind of more of like
the minor things where I'm like,oh, really?
It's like this is you want this guy.
But it's it's also to your point, casting wise, with
Hallmark specifically in certaincases, they see so many of the
same people over and over again because so many of these movies
(29:11):
are shot typically in Vancouver,that that sometimes they do want
to shake things up a little bit.I would love to dive into a few
of your specific projects. You wrote the incredible 30th
anniversary live celebration of Beauty and the Beast.
How did that project come to you?
Oh, well, I mean, that one was that one was a dream for every
(29:32):
single reason. Yeah, because really it was.
It was one of the things where it, it quite, well, not
literally fell into my lap, but as close as you could get simply
because because John Chu was producing it.
And he and I have very similar sensibilities when it comes
(29:53):
especially to like to family storytelling and our love and
our shared passion for Disney and Disney films and in the
quality and caliber of that storytelling and why that
provides it with such longevity.So we're both big fans of Beauty
and the Beast, and he ended up producing that special and
bringing his own very unique, you know, incredibly creative
perspective to it. But they were kind of up against
(30:15):
it because it needed a little bit of shaping.
And at the same time he was doing, he was just getting going
on Wicked. So I got a call from him asking
if I wanted to come on and writeit.
And I mean, you know, I mean, talk about just kind of like a
millisecond that you need to respond.
(30:37):
It's like, of course I would want to be involved in that, not
only just just to work with him would be great, but especially
on something that, you know, I hold in such high esteem and
because I have two young girls. And so it was a chance to work
on something that they were so excited about and that we as a
family could really get excited about.
So, yeah, so it came through. It came directly from John.
(30:58):
And it was. And the whole thing was a joy to
work on from start to finish. It was just a magical project.
It was great. You all did such an exceptional
job because like, there were so many just visuals and sequences.
And as someone who is a proud product of community theater and
a former dancer, you know, just like there were, there were
dance sequences and the, the singing, it was just, it was
(31:19):
just so, so well done. It really helped to have a very
clear vision for what it was going to be.
So, you know, John certainly knows a thing or two about
musicals. And we had worked together on a
show for Paramount and Hulu called the LXD.
We'd done three seasons of it. It was actually the first
project that I did leaving my job at Steve Summers company.
(31:41):
I was writing and directing on that and it was a very music and
dance driven show with a narrative component.
So I think that that's why John knew that this would be an easy
fit because I understand that, you know, especially that you
cannot slam the brakes on, you know, on any kind of story,
especially Beauty and the Beast,just for a cool dance number
(32:03):
that's fun for about 15 seconds and then people just check out.
So, you know, so a big part of it was was finding ways to to
elevate and inject some like some of these new dance numbers.
It was a very serious project for Disney, but also the
project, the lead time on it hadbeen larger because they this
(32:23):
was a project that they had wanted to do in this, in this
incredible company done and dusted was the ones who were
putting it together. So they had this huge breadth
and volume of work that they hadput into it already that we
could use as a springboard. My question that I I had
prepared was what was your favorite part of it?
But I'm actually I'm more curious, what were your
(32:43):
daughters favorite parts of of watching Being the Beast?
Oh, wow. I mean, they got to be there for
when for the opening number because we shot, even though it
wasn't a live special, we shot it in front of a live audience
on the Disney back lot, which was an incredible experience
because that was, you know, we were there on the same stages
where they recorded all the the actors for the original lines of
(33:05):
animated dialogue. And we were shooting on the same
stage where they had shot Mary Poppins.
So I mean, the whole entire backlot is so steeped in nostalgia
and pop culture and for us to beable to kind of like add
another, you know, another, another small piece to that was
just this terrific honor. But for my girls, you know,
being able to be there. My my oldest daughter had quite
(33:28):
a crush on Gaston. So I think that that was her
favorite part and, and meeting her, you know, Gabby, who is
playing Belle, it was for her, this was a chance to meet a real
Disney Princess. And so she was just over the
moon about it. Now, my younger daughter was
only about two or three at the time.
So she just loved everything. She loved the bubbles, she loved
the colour, She loved the costumes.
(33:48):
And then we still watch it on Disney Plus all the time.
The girls want to call it up andlisten to the songs in the in
the car. Yeah, it was, it was great.
So, and that is my favorite partof it is being able to because
it's not always that way, but being able to share that with
with my girls is really, really something special.
Yeah, you you light up talking about your girls scene and
(34:09):
they're they're like this like. I'm fond of them, they're
pretty. You think you'll keep them?
They're OK. No, they're great.
Yeah, my girls are everything. They're so fun.
Oh, so watch out for the one that like guest on.
I don't know, the teen years might be hard.
I mean, in her defense, he was so kind, you know, And also he's
(34:29):
a dreamboat. So it's like when he would
switch on the Gaston on camera, yeah, I would get worried, but.
But no. But behind the scenes he was
just such a lovely guy, so. That's why it's always so nice
when you hear people whose work you admire and and enjoy, when
you hear that they are also justgreat human beings.
It's always just. Oh, yeah.
(34:50):
Oh, and across the board, acrossthe board on that one, everyone
was a pleasure. There was like there was no
egos. There was no everyone was was so
happy to be there and be a part of that project that it made it
really, it just made it joyful. Wow, that's awesome.
Well, shifting gears to the magical world of Hallmark
holiday films we've written and directed.
(35:11):
Yeah, you've written and directed 2 films for them so
far, is that correct? Correct.
Yes. Did you write the scripts with
Hallmark in mind, or were you hired to write the films by
Hallmark? I was hired and it was, you
know, it was a real, it was a really, really interesting
process with them because my manager had sent them a script
(35:35):
that I had written, which is a Christmas movie, but it's, it's
a, it is a very large scale Christmas movie.
And so I heard that they wanted to meet because they were really
interested in it. And I was so confused because I
was like, I don't think that thebudget level is going to reach
(35:56):
the threshold that we would need.
But they, you know, I met with with a number of the executives
over there. There's so many who I love.
There's like Camden, Devika, Mark, you know, Jen, Stephanie,
like everybody over there is their whole team is top notch,
so fun to deal with. They'd read the script and what
they loved about it was the IT was a family film that had a
(36:18):
fantastical kind of like Amblin,you know, magical twist to it.
And I was really surprised because they said we want to put
more of that into the movies that we're doing, you know, and
which to me was news because I hadn't seen that many of the
movies. My mom is a huge fan.
She's seen them all. So I would hear about them, but
(36:40):
I didn't hear that much about. Yeah.
Oh, no, for sure. No, I mean, and, and now that
I'm getting into it, you know, again, I completely understand
why they're so successful and why people love them so much.
But I didn't hear a lot about, you know, about the kind of
like, Amblin type magic. So.
But they said, no, we want to bring something new to the
(37:00):
table. So do you have ideas for
Christmas movies? And so I did.
I said, well, yeah, I always have like, a running list of
ideas. And Christmas itself is a genre,
always kind of like, fascinates me.
So I pitched them for ideas and then they we talked about them a
(37:21):
little bit on the Zoom and then we got off the call and then I
heard nothing and thought, Oh well, OK, well that was fun.
They were, they were nice to talk to.
And so but I guess nothing's going to come of that.
And then two months later I got a phone call from my manager and
he said, OK, so they bought 2 ofthem and you're good to go.
And I was like, Oh my God, because this was so different.
(37:44):
What it was so different than mytypical experience because
usually, you know, when I'm, I usually when I'm selling a
movie, I'm kind of like, OK, well, I have to break the whole
story and come up with, you know, a long pitch and then go
back and forth. And there's a lot of that.
But no. But it was, it was really
flattering. They believed in the strength of
(38:04):
my writing enough. And then also really, really
truly loved these two concepts, which which ended up becoming
Santa Tell Me and Sugar Plummed.So, so it was a real head
turning experience, but it was super exciting and, and it's
great. I love working with those guys.
(38:25):
And so it's, you know, it was, it was such a great experience
throughout. We're working on new stuff now,
which I cannot talk about, but but you will be hearing more
about soon. And yeah.
And so that was kind of the experience with them.
And and so it was, it was fast, much like the making of their
movies. It was a very quick experience.
At what point did they offer or ask you to also direct?
(38:47):
Or was that something that was important to you to shepherd the
idea through to the finish line?It was, it was something that we
had discussed early on, but thatdidn't real.
I was, you know, it was something I had expressed to
them that I would want to do. But then really they like to
(39:08):
handle things one thing at a time.
So we got the script, we got the, you know, we Santa tell me
we got the script to where it needed to be.
And then all of a sudden my repswere getting calls checking
about availability to direct andthen that was that.
And then, you know, a very shortamount of time later there was
on set. So, so it's great.
And also, you know, it just, it just speaks to again, like the
creative collaboration with those guys.
(39:30):
They they really value somebody with a taking kind of a holistic
perspective to it from the script all the way through to
the finished product. And and I think it also really
helps because the movies are made quite quickly.
And so it really helps to have somebody on set who is that
close because the the writer isn't always on set every single
(39:52):
day. I would say it's actually the
exception. So it was nice to be able to be
there to make changes as required based on what was going
on, knowing, you know, this story inside and out.
So it was a real, it that was I think a real benefit.
Yeah. Well, we touched on this.
The the acting was so lovely andthe writing and the directing.
(40:16):
I mean, Hallmark, obviously theyhave their formula, but with
your films, it, it worked withinthe Hallmark sandbox, but it, it
had this freshness to it that itwas a, it was not something
where out of context you'd be like, oh, that's a Hallmark
holiday film. It was, it was a beautiful
holiday story. And you also have some just
(40:38):
lovely photos on your Instagram and of like you with the cast
and things like that. It seems like it was just a, a
really lovely experience and funbehind the scenes as well as
what we as the audience got to enjoy.
But I'm curious if you have any favorite memories from set,
because I know those are very, they're very tight turn around
films. They can be.
Yeah. Sugar Plummed was initially
(41:01):
scheduled for Christmas this year, but then there a window
became available. Another movie had fallen apart
for some reason. I don't, I was never Privy to
the reasons why, But we went very quickly from zero to 100.
And so we started shooting that.Gosh, I think that like we
(41:21):
really pulled the trigger and I found out that it was an active
development in August of 2024 and then we had completed
photography by the end of September 2024.
So it was really quick, but alsoI was so, you know, I'd already
cut my teeth doing Santa tell meand and knew the speed with
(41:44):
which we needed to work and kindof was more familiar with the
machine and was super happy withthe end product.
I didn't feel like we had to compromise on quality anywhere.
And yeah, and then the fun of both movies really just to to
speak about, you know, the the hallmark of it is and and I
think why, you know, I've been thrilled to see how positively
the movies have been received. I kind of really when I even
(42:06):
from the the formative stage, wanted to take kind of like a
cake and eat it too approach because I in looking at the the
movies that had really stood outfor the network and been
successes, I understood all the building blocks of like, well,
these are the beats that people really love to see.
And these are this is how these stories are put together, same
as any ROM com, really. But my goal was to deliver those
(42:29):
beats, but then subvert whereverpossible in a way that would
surprise and delight. So it was essentially giving
people what they wanted, you know, or were expecting with one
of these movies, but then find away to make that unexpected.
And then that's what I'm trying to do as much as possible, not
only with them, but like with any movie really.
But but with the Hallmark ones, it's it's a really fun challenge
(42:55):
just because, Yeah, because there are a lot of them that are
made. And you know, they do follow
these beats quite rigidly sometimes, but also Hallmark as,
as a creative operation is so much more open to bending and
changing and innovation than people might think.
So that's why it's been such, it's part of the reason why it's
(43:16):
been such a positive experience working with them.
Also, they're really, really nice people.
I don't know why I was surprised, but I was kind of
like, I'm shocked constantly by how kind they are just as
people. It's, it's what you would
imagine somebody who worked essentially at like, you know, a
company that makes lovely greeting cards would be.
They're just like they're, they're just, you know, they're
friends. They're lovely, lovely people to
(43:37):
deal with. Please overlook me because it
was last Christmas but Santa tell me was the one there was a
like a sleigh scene in like a a back beach area with the snow
correct? That was that one, right?
OK, It was so lovely because it was like you said, it's like
this ROM com moment again, I want to hats off to you.
It was just it was just very well done.
(43:58):
Very. Very.
Oh, thank you, thank you. No, it's funny.
It's like that sort of stuff. It comes because I'm kind of a
I'm a very sentimental, you know, guy.
And also when I was, you know, I'm married now, but when I was
dating, I was you kind of the, the king of the grand gesture a
little bit. And so it's like that sort of
stuff. I love putting that sort of
stuff into my movies because even my old roommates watched
(44:21):
it. They were kind of like, this
just feels like something that you would have done.
And it's like, yeah, pretty much.
But no. Thank you for the kind words.
It's so nice you to say. As we wind down, I do want to
hit rewind and talk about your thesis film, The Midnight
Express. Oh wow.
OK, sure. We're we're big proponents of
education here and, and, and youtalked about what a great
experience it was for you, but for an early career project, it
(44:43):
was really celebrated in the festival space.
Who were some of the mentors or creative community that helped
come around you in supporting that?
And what were some of the inspirations behind behind that
thesis? Oh, sure.
So, so for those I, I, I, I think that we can provide a link
in the show notes. So Midnight Express was the
(45:05):
thesis film I made at USC during, when I was an undergrad.
And, and essentially it's a, it's a modern day fairy tale
about a young boy named Charlie who has a very specific problem.
And that's that an overnight train every night, 12 O 1:00 AM,
comes barreling through his closet, across his bedroom, and
(45:25):
then exits through the bathroom door.
And it prevents him from ever getting a good night's sleep.
So he has to find an outside thebox and an unorthodox solution
in order to solve this problem because he's getting very tired
of it. So anyway, it was a it was a
really crazy experience putting that together because we were
shooting it. I mean, you don't even want to
(45:48):
talk about like a shoestring. Like there was no shoe, there
was no string. Like it was like it was a
student film that we were shooting on 16 millimetre black
and white. This is back when people shot on
film. We had to cut by hand, not just
picture, but sound. So we had, you know, we had our
all our sound effects on the magnetic tape.
This makes me sound like I'm 1000 years old.
By the way, this wasn't that long ago.
(46:10):
USC really values film. They switched to digital in the
meantime. But anyway, so it was this 5 1/2
minute film that required a lot of, you know, kind of fun
outside the box ways to kind of convey this, this really kind of
bigger budget idea. And the movie came together
great. And so, you know, I had my, you
know, the teaching staff at USC was exceptional.
(46:33):
It's I, I truly believe it's theabsolute best film school in the
world. But also, you know, what I had
there was my, was my peers. So I had like a close
collaborator, a guy I still workwith to this day, who's a huge
director in television named AviWavian.
And so he and I were, we were partners in our class that year.
We had like our other, you know,all of our friends who are
(46:54):
again, are still kind of like, who are doing fantastic, amazing
things in the industry. And so we all kind of came
together and rallied around. It was like a very kind of like,
community approach. And yeah, the movie performed
spectacularly. We won at Slamdance.
It went to 30 festivals nationwide.
It was featured in somehow featured in the National Gallery
(47:14):
of Art in Washington, DC, which I still have trouble wrapping my
head around. I saw that on.
Your website and I was like, howdid that turn about like?
So crazy because it's really because it's a, it's a student
film like it. And I'm very proud of it,
people. And I'm so delighted that you
bring it up because people stilldo like John Chu still brings it
(47:35):
up to me all the time. He's like, do you remember your
student film? I'm like, yes, I remember him at
MIT Express. But I'll tell you the best thing
to come out of it was that therewas a screening at USC and who
showed up at the screening was Bob Dusay, who was Steve Summers
producing partner. And he saw it.
(47:56):
And then that was our touch point.
And so I emailed him to thank him for coming to the screening.
And then that got me an internship at his company, which
then kind of set me on this pathto be able to kind of like, you
know, so really it's kind of like it's all about just putting
yourself out there, finding those connections, fostering
them where you can. And then also it's like you
never know what's going to come out of something, you know,
(48:19):
because we put that movie together with, with nothing but,
you know, but, but hard work andpassion and, and real love for
the story that we were putting together.
And then that's what resonated and then created this new
opportunity. So you never know where
opportunity comes and it can be just around the corner.
But yes, but please go watch Midnight express.
(48:41):
It's really fun. It's a little piece of my heart.
It's a really, really cute movie.
And I I'm biased, but I stand bythat.
Right. I can't believe our time is up.
We end every episode the same way.
What is one thing you wish you could go back until your younger
self? Oh, that's all going to be OK.
You know, I mean, because there are, this is a really tough
(49:01):
business and and there are really good days and there are
really tough days. I mean, days where it's like
you, because you have to, by virtue of what we do, be
emotionally invested in everything that you do, you have
to truly believe that the story you're going to tell is the best
(49:22):
version of the story. You have to truly believe that
whatever you're pitching on, youare the person for that job and
you're not always going to get the job.
And so that can be, that can be a blow, but you just have to get
back up and just keep on going. And so I think it's just, you
know, realizing that there are ebbs and flows and that you can
take these bets on yourself. You can consistently double down
(49:45):
on yourself because it will all be OK.
You know, there will always be new opportunity.
There will always be something that comes out of it.
And everything happens for a reason.
Because I've also noticed that sometimes when a job doesn't
work out in the moment, it's soul crushing.
(50:05):
But then a week or six months ora year later, you look back and
realize, Oh my God, not getting that job is the best thing that
ever happened to me. So even defeats can end up being
victories. It's just all about taking that
long term perspective, hanging on and continuing to make cool
stuff and tell fun stories. And that is really the best
(50:27):
device that I can give. Ryan, thank you so much for
sharing your creativity, your positivity.
It's really been a joy to hear about your career and I'm so
excited for what's what's to come.
So thank you SO. Much.
Oh yeah. Oh, there's some fun stuff
coming down the pipe so. Please keep us posted so that I
can just continue to populate iton on our socials and people can
(50:48):
follow along 100. Percent.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame?
To stay in the know for upcomingevents, I'm your host, Laura
(51:09):
Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone, Today and What's myframe?
I'm joined by writer director Ryan Landels.
This is a beautiful episode spotlighting the importance of
community and finding your fellow collaborators.
Ryan is a proud graduate of the USC School of Cinema Television.
His thesis film, The Midnight Express went to more than 30
festivals internationally. When the audience awarded Slam
Dance, it was featured in the National Gallery of Art in DC.
(00:27):
Today, Ryan takes us behind the scenes of projects like Beauty
and the Beast, a 30th celebration for Disney Plus and
ABC, along with his original movies Santa Tell Me and Sugar
Plummed. For Hallmark, where he was both
writer and director. Ryan's joy for the craft and his
fellow collaborators is evident.This is a really special
conversation I'm excited to share with you all.
Now let's get to the conversation.
(00:50):
Hey Ryan, welcome to What's My Frame?
How you doing? I'm doing fine, thanks.
How about yourself? I'm good.
I'm so excited for this conversation.
I would love to hear kind of theevolution of your creative
process, some of the pivotal opportunities and moments for
you so far. For sure.
Well, I was. I would.
I count myself as being very fortunate because ever since I
(01:11):
was a kid, I knew exactly what Iwanted to do, and that was tell
stories, specifically stories for television and movies.
So I grew up in Vancouver. I was one of five boys and I was
second oldest. So I could wrangle my younger
brothers into kind of these likelittle backyard epics that I
would shoot and really kind of cut my teeth as a filmmaker that
(01:33):
way. And that was kind of a passion
that I then followed all the waythrough.
I did all the kind of the typical stuff.
I've worked at a, at a video store when I was a teenager and,
and had this huge, I just desperately wanted to go to film
school and, and my parents were super, super supportive of that.
So I followed this passion all the way down to Los Angeles.
(01:56):
I went through USC film school and, and it was a terrific
education. It was, you know, I know that
for some people, their mileage may vary when it comes to film
school. I had an exceptional experience.
I still continue today to work with me, the lifelong friends I
made in that program. And then I was fortunate enough
(02:16):
to come out of it and, and get ajob because I needed to be
sponsored or else I would have to leave the country.
So I got a a wonderful job with Steven Summers, who wrote and
directed the Mummy movies and Van Helsing and GI Joe and just
the sorts of movies that I lovedso much.
And that was my real education. That was a chance for me to take
(02:41):
everything that I had learned infilm school and really escalate
it to the next level 'cause I was reading scripts, I was
helping develop studio movies, Iwas on set all around the world.
And then that really set me up for success when the time came
for me to take a risk on myself and go out on my own and start
to write and direct. So ever since that happened,
(03:03):
it's been a fun and crazy and wild ride and and has brought me
all the way here to you. So there you go.
That's my origin story in a nutshell.
When you were coming up through the business, who were some of
those mentors or influential voices that helped shape your
creative eye or your work ethic,your process?
(03:23):
Well, I would say Steven Summersand his producing partner Bob
Dusay were hugely influential onme not only as a storyteller and
a filmmaker, but also just as a person because they were, you
know, they were the kindest and most knowledgeable mentors you
(03:44):
could ask for. And it was great because
honestly, coming into the situation, landing in LA, not
knowing a single person, going through film school and making
all these friends, but take my first kind of steps out into the
industry, I needed to find a jobthat would sponsor me for a
number of years in order to be able to get a green card so I
could stay. And if I had ended up with
(04:06):
somebody who was, you know, not so kind or, you know, some of
these horror stories that you hear sometimes in the industry,
I would have no choice but to stay because leaving that job
would mean basically having to get on a plane and go home.
But no, I won the lottery with Steve and Bob because they were
(04:26):
like dads to me. I mean, they, they were so kind
and so caring and so supportive.They were there to answer any
questions. They were there to to kind of
carry me through this immigration journey.
Their production company coveredall of my immigration expenses,
which was something I never asked for, but they offered up.
And that's just the type of people who they are.
(04:48):
And in addition to that, they were also making these gigantic
movies that kind of the the largest scale that you could
imagine, which provided all these opportunities to go around
and be on set and see how the nuts and bolts are put together.
So I every single day thank my lucky stars that I ended up
crossing paths with them. And we still keep in touch and
they are just the best guys. So I would say that on, you
(05:13):
know, in terms of taking those first steps in the industry,
they were hugely helpful. But then also at the same time,
one of my close friends from film school was John Chu, who of
course has gone on to do such small independent films as
Wicked and Wicked 2 and Crazy Rich Asians.
And so John and I, I produced one of his student musicals,
(05:35):
which was a great education. But from day one, John has had a
very clear vision and been just the, he's one of my favorite
stories about him is that in film school, he literally gave
me the shirt off his back one day because I was like, oh, I
really like that. I was like, where did you get
the shirt? And he's like, you know what?
He's like, I want you to have itnow.
(05:56):
He was wearing another shirt underneath.
So it wasn't weird, but it was just like, that's in a nutshell,
was the type of guy who John is.And, and it's always, I will
drop everything for a chance to work with him.
We've worked together on many, many things over the years, one
of which being Jem and the Holograms, which was a film
(06:16):
course that we made for Universal, which was released
theatrically, which was a huge thrill.
That was like a bucket list thing for me.
So I was there on set every day.But really through development,
seeing his approach to characterand seeing his approach to story
and theme, those are lessons that I carry with me and
continue to remind myself of on every single project that I do.
(06:38):
And it's one of the reasons why John, of course, has gone on to
such tremendous success 'cause he approaches everything from
such a deep, emotional storytelling perspective, and
he's built up this wealth of knowledge that now we all kind
of get to benefit from when we go to the movies.
So I would say that those guys. And so it's kind of nice.
So I've had like industry peers,but then also a friend who's
(07:00):
gone on to be, you know, kind ofthe greatest heights that you
can as a filmmaker. And it's really nice to be able
to call on all of them for advice and guidance and, you
know, hanging out. Exactly.
Well, that's something that's one of the reasons I always love
to talk about mentorship, because I know hindsight's
always 2020, but I myself moved to LA not knowing anyone
(07:23):
because, you know, of course they were looking for actors,
they were looking for blonde actors.
So I came and it was so many years wasted prior to meeting my
mentor. And like, once you have that
mentorship and that community that starts building up around
you, the industry changes. And until you experience that on
(07:43):
a personal level, it's very hardto understand.
But it's, it's like all the lights turn on.
It's just, it's such a differentexperience and it's this version
of the industry that I think a lot of people have is the one
without mentorship and they haven't experienced that, that
welcoming that you, you get lifted up by your peers when you
when you're with the right people that.
(08:04):
So thank you for sharing that. Oh, of course, yeah.
No, it is, it's, it's really nice to because it's not always
that way, obviously. I mean, there's also that, you
know, there are not a, there arenot a ton of people out there
who are actively invested in helping boost others up.
I don't know if that's, I don't think that's specific to film or
not, but when you meet those people and when you meet these
(08:26):
champions of your work, you justwant to hold on to them as
tightly as possible because it'srare and it's and it's really
nice and it's and it's, and it'slovely when you can count them
as friends for sure. Now your career is a beautiful
mix of writing, directing, and producing.
When you are able to wear multiple hats on a project, is
there one outlet? One outlet that comes more
(08:47):
naturally? Or do you really enjoy the
variety that your career has presented?
Oh, I, I love the variety of it,which wasn't something that I
always thought I would. In fact, when I left my job with
Steve Summers and really went freelance and not knowing what
every day would bring because I've been with his company for
(09:08):
years in a development position.And again, kind of taking that
risk on myself and being like, OK, I can do this.
The uncertainty or the unpredictability was nerve
wracking, but then once I kind of got over that hurdle and
leaned into this and and kind ofembraced, you know, as cheesy as
it sounds, this idea that, you know, no two days are the same.
(09:32):
Once you lean into that and apply that to taking on these
different roles and wearing these different hats and things
like that, I think it opens up alot of interesting possibilities
in terms of what what comes the most naturally.
I mean, I guess a writing, because that's where I started
like as a kid, I would just sit and just, you know, pour my
heart and soul into these notebooks, putting together
(09:55):
these short stories. And that's kind of where I think
I separate myself a little bit. That's what has afforded me the
possibility and the opportunity to both direct and produce is
because I'm the one who's generating the scripts.
So that so that's a big, that's a big leg up.
So I'd say, I mean of the three,I love them all equally, but I
(10:16):
would say that that's probably the one that comes most the most
naturally. You never pick a favorite child,
but that's why I try to ask, like, which one comes most?
And naturally, because, you know, I think especially in
seasons of quiet or as the industry just continues to
evolve, it's imperative that youhave multiple outlets.
Yeah, be sure that you are continuing to.
(10:38):
Work, it is important. No, I mean, because it's, it's,
it's a lesson actually that I had to learn early on was that
you have to have, you know, 9 or10 or 11 or 12 plates spinning,
not all actively, not all like, you know, but you have to have
them all going at the same time.Because the horizon on some of
these things, it takes so many years for some projects to come
together that if you're just sitting around waiting for that,
(11:00):
that you, you know, you'll find yourself waiting a really long
time. And also it's something that
that actually Steve Summers toldme early on when I was working
with him, is that as a director and as a producer, everybody
goes through slumps. Everybody goes through these,
you know, these valleys in theircareer.
(11:21):
But he said you can always writeyourself out.
So as a director, if you if you,you know, if your project didn't
work out the way that you were hoping it would, or if you're a
producer in the movie just bombed to the box office, he's
like, at least if you can write,you can create something that's
undeniable that will give you another shot of success.
So that's, you know, and that's,that's what I try and, you know,
(11:41):
remind myself of. Yeah, every as I sit down
writing something undeniable. Exactly, exactly.
Now you have some really exciting projects in
development. Having learned how to
successfully navigate those rooms and opportunities, what's
something that would have been beneficial to understand
starting out? Something that would have been
beneficial to understand starting out.
(12:05):
I mean, again, I would say the volume of projects that you need
to wrap your head around is something that you need to keep
an eye on. Because I would say especially
when you're starting out, you'rewriting.
Let's say you're writing a script or you're putting
together your first movie independently.
Yeah. And you know, kind of by
(12:27):
definition, you have to pour everything you have into that
one project into that script or into that movie.
And it is it's all consuming andit takes over your life.
But at the same time, the first question that people are going
to ask when that project, hope for that script hopefully
becomes a big hit and success is, well, what else you have?
And you need to have answers forthat.
(12:50):
Now, sometimes just having a logline can be enough.
I've sold movies based off of log lines, but that does not
happen all the time. In fact, I would say that that
is incredibly rare, especially with the industry being what it
is today. So as all consuming as things
can be, you need to find time tomultitask and to find a way to
(13:10):
divide your passion among multiple projects, but still
have them all be excellent, which is a huge challenge,
especially as you get older, especially as families come into
the mix, especially AS, you know, as you know, you might
have to take on a job to like, actually support yourself and
pay rent and things like that. So it's a challenge, but it's
just something that needs to be understood if you want to have a
(13:32):
career with a real, you know, with real longevity.
I would say yeah. How have you experienced those
rooms and those opportunities change in your career?
Has it with success become easier, just more confidence
like you would think or because of the contraction and just so
many obstacles, especially over the last 5-6 years, is it just
(13:56):
kind of always feeling like you're starting back at square
1? Well, I would say that the
industry's in a constant state of flux.
I mean, with this contraction, it is, it's challenging.
I would say that I've been able to weather it better than some
degree simply because I'm mainlyin features, or at least in
(14:18):
movies. I would say, 'cause I do
television movies as well, but Idon't do a terrific amount of
television episodic, which I think is where the real pain is
being felt now. They're also making fewer
movies. But I would say that as a
feature screenwriter, I am accustomed to being out of work
from time to time and that and that I'm, I think I'm more
(14:38):
weathered to, you know, rejection and things like that.
Then then maybe some people who were in television rooms and are
just starting out, you know, andmy heart goes out to everybody
because it is it's such a challenging time.
It's a challenging time, even atthe best of times to be an
artist in this profession. And there are so many people who
are, you know, who, who again, need to need to just be, I
(15:00):
guess, reminded of the fact thatit's like this is just a blip
and that we will get through this and that there will be more
amazing work on the horizon. But but yeah, I would say that
in terms of the industry changing as a whole, I haven't,
I I haven't noticed it that much, but in part because I've
(15:21):
been trying to reinvent myself as much as possible.
Like I said, getting out of juststrictly, you know, theatrical
features and then diversifying into television has created a
lot of opportunity. So that I think has been the
lesson is again, it's kind of like not only have a million
projects on the go, but also tryand reinvent as much as
possible. Yeah.
Do you find that there is like aheadspace or a location or an
(15:45):
activity that is the most creative for you for like new
ideas to pop up? Oh, oh, I mean, I guess my
office, I say that with a bit ofa laugh because I'm actually
moving right now and I'm very sad to be leaving.
My that's mine. I've worked at home for years
(16:06):
and years and my, my Home Officewas like this like perfectly
curated little layer, my den andI loved it so much.
Now we're moving to a great place.
It's awesome. And and we, we pulled the
trigger knowing that I would have to leave this cozy spot
behind. But I would say just having like
a safe creative space has been that I can go into my office and
(16:29):
I can sit, you know, I try and keep regular industry hours kind
of like 9 to 7 and be able to bein there and sitting down and
feeling that spark of inspiration in like a warm like
safe space is great. There's that and then there's on
the Peloton. And so whenever I have a story
issue, usually weirdly when I'm on the bike, I will have a blind
(16:50):
pop into my head or I don't knowwhat it is about that device,
but I love that. I'm drinking the Peloton
kool-aid too. There's something so.
Great. I mean, every time I get off of
it, I'm like that line from Legally Blonde about the
endorphins, like endorphins makeyou happy.
And I'm just like, sometimes youjust got to put it on full blast
volume, turn the instructor downand just blast it.
(17:13):
And yeah, now I'm unsponsored at.
Look at that. We're gonna have to follow each
other. Yes, which is really weird.
The funniest thing to me about Peloton, it's a total tangent,
but that there's a camera built into the bike and I don't know
if you've ever. I've ever like worked out with
someone. My brother-in-law, like, beamed
in one day and it's like, it's the weirdest thing because it's
(17:33):
the most singularly unflatteringangle while you're drenched in
sweat and panting away and it's just like, it's a very odd thing
to build into a workout device. But maybe some people love it,
so I don't. Know I it the way that the
camera is placed it feels like like Facetiming with like your
(17:56):
grandparent or something like itfeels like it would be that kind
of an angle and I'm like yeah. It's just all, it's all double
chance. It's.
All, yeah, just all chance. Great.
Yeah. But anyway, I digress.
I digress. So, OK, going back to like your
Home Office in your creative space, fighting can be a very
isolating craft in our industry sometimes.
(18:19):
And I'm curious, how did you find like your trusted
collaborators or those that you share your scripts with to get
feedback that is supportive but also critical but constructive?
Because I think sometimes, especially for young writers,
they take a lot in and then all of a sudden their work doesn't
look like their work anymore. Well, yeah, I would say that the
(18:43):
risk there for young writers is actually twofold.
I would say that, you know, whenI was starting out, I handed the
script off to somebody who I worked with it at Summers
Company, at Steve Summers Production Company.
And he took one look at the script, not even like reading
it. He just like looked at it as as
(19:04):
a document and said, do you wantnotes or do you just want to
hear that it's good, Which was areally valuable question because
I was kind of like, well, of course I want to hear that It's
good. It's great.
I wrote it. It's genius.
But you know, his thing was cut straight to the heart of what a
lot of people I think are hopingfor when they hand their work
(19:26):
off to someone or what readers might expect to to give to them
when, when they say, please lookat this because you are you're
making yourself vulnerable. You're putting this thing out
there. You've put all your your passion
into. And you know, sometimes readers
are your friends are like, oh, it's great.
It's so genius. But there might be real
fundamental problems with your script.
(19:47):
And so it does you no good to hear that it's great.
So I would sit so that usually when I ask for feedback from
friends, I'm kind of like, I don't want to hear that it's
good. I want to hear what's wrong with
it. So, you know, I'm, I've got very
thick skin. It's totally fine.
Just just tell me what you thinkin terms of their script not
looking like their script anymore.
(20:07):
I would say that that's that would be a risk, but maybe also
a good thing. So it depends on the script.
Because if the issue is, is thatthey're simply taking every
note. You know, again, one of the most
valuable pieces of career advicethat I got was, again, working
at Steve's company, because I worked there for seven years.
(20:28):
We looked at thousands of scripts and we developed tons of
studio movies, a handful of which got made, which were super
fun. And I suggest that everybody
goes out and checks out Steve's movies.
They're so great, and a bunch that didn't.
But one of the things was is that when we would give notes to
writers, the amount of respect that we would have for writers
(20:49):
who did all the notes would diminish in our eyes because it
meant that they didn't have a point of view.
And so when we provided feedbackand notes, it wasn't a mandate.
It was simply saying, here's something to explore that might
make this grip better, but not all of the notes should have
been done. And so it's like, so it would,
(21:11):
you know, our hearts would sink a little bit when we got back a
draft saying, I did all the notes.
It's kind of like, well, do the ones that resonate with you that
you know in your heart because you as a, as a screenwriter, are
the sole guardian of the story. It's your job to protect the
integrity of the story all the way through the process.
So it doesn't matter if it's a small independent film or studio
(21:34):
film, you don't need to do all the notes.
So, so that is something I guesswould be the other end of it.
So it's like tell people that you don't want to hear that it's
good. And then when they tell you that
it's bad, take into account or that it needs work.
Take into account where their feedback is coming from.
And but also see if it holds anywater for you.
(21:56):
And if it doesn't, then just don't do the note.
And you know what? They won't get mad.
They really won't. If they, if they come back a
couple times and say, we really need you to do this, then you,
you have to find a way to do thegood version of it.
But but you really don't need todo all the notes.
Yeah, I I think that's somethingso important for, for young
writers especially to hear because, you know, there's so
(22:18):
many people on TikTok and, and social media and webinars that,
you know, they're selling screenwriting services and, and
consulting and it is such AI want to choose my words wisely.
Scam it can be, you have to watch that.
(22:42):
I mean, there was one that when I saw the number at my jaw
literally dropped. I was like, who can afford that
in this economy? Like you would have to be
successfully making films to be able to afford this service to
the but anyway, I digress. But I think it's so important
because it's it's that age-old problem.
As creatives coming up, we want to please, we want, we want to
(23:05):
do what is asked. We want to do that, yes.
And, and I think especially whenyou're writing and you know
these characters better than anyone else, they are your
little world to protect. I think that's such a valuable
piece of advice to know what to take and what notes to say.
Thank you. I'll keep that for.
(23:25):
Sure. I mean, the other thing would
be, and it probably goes withoutsaying, but if you go out to 6
friends, the feedback is going to be all across the board.
But if there's obviously, if there's notes that keep coming
up, those are the ones to hone in on, to pay attention to.
But aside from that, yeah, you just kind of have to follow your
gut and your instincts and then see where the story takes you.
Yeah. Well, going off of that, when
(23:46):
you've spent so much time with these characters and this world,
when you yourself are pitching aproject, how do you pick and
choose what parts of the storiesto highlight and share those
meetings? And how do you know and, and
trust they're going to, they're going to get to that in the deck
or they're going to read the script.
What what do you put for front and and what do you trust that
(24:09):
they will get to in their own time?
Yeah, this is tricky because I have to say I really love
pitching. I love pitching very, very much.
And because I get really excitedabout my stories.
And so I feel like pitching is your, is your chance to, you
know, you can have a bit of a performative element to it.
It's got kind of like, it's a combination of kind of like a
book report and local theatre. I mean, it's like, you know,
(24:32):
it's got like, if you have to bring all that passion to it,
not local theatre or like a monologue, like a one man show.
So I really like because I get very, very passionate about my
work. And it's one of the things that
I don't love so much about, you know, this kind of more zoom
culture that's that's come out of the pandemic is that it's,
(24:54):
it's, it's more of a rarity to get into a room together and be
able to kind of like share that passion.
But regardless whether it's overZoom or whether it's in person,
I mean, my approach varies a little bit because my, my
pitches are quite in depth. Sometimes I think I would like,
(25:14):
oh, I would just really love to crunch this down into like a
tidy little like 10 minute thing.
But I mean, I've given, I find it's all over the map.
It just depends on how great your story is.
Because I've sold pitches that were 25 minutes long, which is
insane. Don't give a 25 minute pitch.
But some of those projects sold.I've given pitches that were
(25:35):
closer to 10 minutes that didn'tsell.
And part of it is is like what you're talking about is finding
finding the best pieces to put into it.
So it's like, you know, I would say that, you know, for what
it's worth, the general sort of pitch that I do, I top line it
(25:56):
very quickly establish why I have some why I want to tell the
story, why this why I'm the guy to tell the story.
Tidy it up with a log line and alittle bit on theme.
And then what you really want todo is just front load it as much
as possible to to get the characters firmly established.
Any picture, you're going to spend half the time talking
about the characters and then itkind of diminishes as you get on
(26:19):
where then you tidy up the finale.
Like the third act can really even be as short as just a
couple sentences unless you're tying up a lot of thematic
threads. But what you want to do is you
want to touch on three set pieces, you know, typically
whether they're dramatic or somegiant sci-fi thing, and then
just track the characters emotional arcs as closely as
possible. It's the same thing as writing a
(26:40):
screenplay. As long as you can make it as
emotional as possible, people will lean in and will pay
attention. Yeah.
When you have had such a period of time of getting to know these
characters through writing them,what do you like your
involvement to be in the castingprocess, especially if you're
coming on as as the director? Well, of course, I mean, I love
especially as the writer, I lovebeing as involved as in casting
(27:03):
as possible, but it's a bit of asliding scale depending on the
project, honestly, depends on who's holding the purse strings.
And especially like in television, you have, you can
make your recommendations, but in some cases, you know, you're
even as director, the network will override and say, well, we
(27:24):
really see something in this person, in which case that's
fine because they might see something.
You know, it's your job is to elevate what's on the page and
to execute to give them something and, you know, but
also something for yourself thatyou really want to see and, and
wonderful things can come out ofit.
But you know, if I had, of course, if I think anybody who's
a director probably has a bit ofa control freak aspect to them,
(27:48):
it would be great to be able to say I want exactly these people
and get them all the time. The reality is you it's, it's a
bit, it's a bit of a partnership, especially in
television, especially in television, it's more of a
conversation. Which is also to say I love
everyone who has been in all of my television projects, by the
way. So it's not like I ever felt
like I got a raw deal ever. I love everyone in my projects,
(28:09):
genuinely. Literally, I have it written
down here for later when we're talking about some of the
Hallmark holiday, but Aaron and Janelle were, I mean just.
Chefs. Oh my God, yeah.
They're the best. They've suspended disbelief and
it's they live in this magical world and they take you along
with it. And it's, I think that's
something that makes those filmsso special because they are
(28:29):
this, I mean, as someone who proudly grew up on Disney films
as a child, like it's, you know,that that magic is needed in
day-to-day life. It's just, oh.
For sure. No, it's so vital.
It's the reason why they make somany of those movies and why
they're so successful. Yeah, No, I could talk about
Aaron and Janelle for days. I mean, same thing with like
Maggie and Daniel. And I mean, and also to be
clear, when I'm talking about the casting, I'm talking more
(28:51):
about kind of like the day player, the leads.
We've always been in lockstep. It's it's kind of more of like
the minor things where I'm like,oh, really?
It's like this is you want this guy.
But it's it's also to your point, casting wise, with
Hallmark specifically in certaincases, they see so many of the
same people over and over again because so many of these movies
(29:11):
are shot typically in Vancouver,that that sometimes they do want
to shake things up a little bit.I would love to dive into a few
of your specific projects. You wrote the incredible 30th
anniversary live celebration of Beauty and the Beast.
How did that project come to you?
Oh, well, I mean, that one was that one was a dream for every
(29:32):
single reason. Yeah, because really it was.
It was one of the things where it, it quite, well, not
literally fell into my lap, but as close as you could get simply
because because John Chu was producing it.
And he and I have very similar sensibilities when it comes
(29:53):
especially to like to family storytelling and our love and
our shared passion for Disney and Disney films and in the
quality and caliber of that storytelling and why that
provides it with such longevity.So we're both big fans of Beauty
and the Beast, and he ended up producing that special and
bringing his own very unique, you know, incredibly creative
perspective to it. But they were kind of up against
(30:15):
it because it needed a little bit of shaping.
And at the same time he was doing, he was just getting going
on Wicked. So I got a call from him asking
if I wanted to come on and writeit.
And I mean, you know, I mean, talk about just kind of like a
millisecond that you need to respond.
(30:37):
It's like, of course I would want to be involved in that, not
only just just to work with him would be great, but especially
on something that, you know, I hold in such high esteem and
because I have two young girls. And so it was a chance to work
on something that they were so excited about and that we as a
family could really get excited about.
So, yeah, so it came through. It came directly from John.
(30:58):
And it was. And the whole thing was a joy to
work on from start to finish. It was just a magical project.
It was great. You all did such an exceptional
job because like, there were so many just visuals and sequences.
And as someone who is a proud product of community theater and
a former dancer, you know, just like there were, there were
dance sequences and the, the singing, it was just, it was
(31:19):
just so, so well done. It really helped to have a very
clear vision for what it was going to be.
So, you know, John certainly knows a thing or two about
musicals. And we had worked together on a
show for Paramount and Hulu called the LXD.
We'd done three seasons of it. It was actually the first
project that I did leaving my job at Steve Summers company.
(31:41):
I was writing and directing on that and it was a very music and
dance driven show with a narrative component.
So I think that that's why John knew that this would be an easy
fit because I understand that, you know, especially that you
cannot slam the brakes on, you know, on any kind of story,
especially Beauty and the Beast,just for a cool dance number
(32:03):
that's fun for about 15 seconds and then people just check out.
So, you know, so a big part of it was was finding ways to to
elevate and inject some like some of these new dance numbers.
It was a very serious project for Disney, but also the
project, the lead time on it hadbeen larger because they this
(32:23):
was a project that they had wanted to do in this, in this
incredible company done and dusted was the ones who were
putting it together. So they had this huge breadth
and volume of work that they hadput into it already that we
could use as a springboard. My question that I I had
prepared was what was your favorite part of it?
But I'm actually I'm more curious, what were your
(32:43):
daughters favorite parts of of watching Being the Beast?
Oh, wow. I mean, they got to be there for
when for the opening number because we shot, even though it
wasn't a live special, we shot it in front of a live audience
on the Disney back lot, which was an incredible experience
because that was, you know, we were there on the same stages
where they recorded all the the actors for the original lines of
(33:05):
animated dialogue. And we were shooting on the same
stage where they had shot Mary Poppins.
So I mean, the whole entire backlot is so steeped in nostalgia
and pop culture and for us to beable to kind of like add
another, you know, another, another small piece to that was
just this terrific honor. But for my girls, you know,
being able to be there. My my oldest daughter had quite
(33:28):
a crush on Gaston. So I think that that was her
favorite part and, and meeting her, you know, Gabby, who is
playing Belle, it was for her, this was a chance to meet a real
Disney Princess. And so she was just over the
moon about it. Now, my younger daughter was
only about two or three at the time.
So she just loved everything. She loved the bubbles, she loved
the colour, She loved the costumes.
(33:48):
And then we still watch it on Disney Plus all the time.
The girls want to call it up andlisten to the songs in the in
the car. Yeah, it was, it was great.
So, and that is my favorite partof it is being able to because
it's not always that way, but being able to share that with
with my girls is really, really something special.
Yeah, you you light up talking about your girls scene and
(34:09):
they're they're like this like. I'm fond of them, they're
pretty. You think you'll keep them?
They're OK. No, they're great.
Yeah, my girls are everything. They're so fun.
Oh, so watch out for the one that like guest on.
I don't know, the teen years might be hard.
I mean, in her defense, he was so kind, you know, And also he's
(34:29):
a dreamboat. So it's like when he would
switch on the Gaston on camera, yeah, I would get worried, but.
But no. But behind the scenes he was
just such a lovely guy, so. That's why it's always so nice
when you hear people whose work you admire and and enjoy, when
you hear that they are also justgreat human beings.
It's always just. Oh, yeah.
(34:50):
Oh, and across the board, acrossthe board on that one, everyone
was a pleasure. There was like there was no
egos. There was no everyone was was so
happy to be there and be a part of that project that it made it
really, it just made it joyful. Wow, that's awesome.
Well, shifting gears to the magical world of Hallmark
holiday films we've written and directed.
(35:11):
Yeah, you've written and directed 2 films for them so
far, is that correct? Correct.
Yes. Did you write the scripts with
Hallmark in mind, or were you hired to write the films by
Hallmark? I was hired and it was, you
know, it was a real, it was a really, really interesting
process with them because my manager had sent them a script
(35:35):
that I had written, which is a Christmas movie, but it's, it's
a, it is a very large scale Christmas movie.
And so I heard that they wanted to meet because they were really
interested in it. And I was so confused because I
was like, I don't think that thebudget level is going to reach
(35:56):
the threshold that we would need.
But they, you know, I met with with a number of the executives
over there. There's so many who I love.
There's like Camden, Devika, Mark, you know, Jen, Stephanie,
like everybody over there is their whole team is top notch,
so fun to deal with. They'd read the script and what
they loved about it was the IT was a family film that had a
(36:18):
fantastical kind of like Amblin,you know, magical twist to it.
And I was really surprised because they said we want to put
more of that into the movies that we're doing, you know, and
which to me was news because I hadn't seen that many of the
movies. My mom is a huge fan.
She's seen them all. So I would hear about them, but
(36:40):
I didn't hear that much about. Yeah.
Oh, no, for sure. No, I mean, and, and now that
I'm getting into it, you know, again, I completely understand
why they're so successful and why people love them so much.
But I didn't hear a lot about, you know, about the kind of
like, Amblin type magic. So.
But they said, no, we want to bring something new to the
(37:00):
table. So do you have ideas for
Christmas movies? And so I did.
I said, well, yeah, I always have like, a running list of
ideas. And Christmas itself is a genre,
always kind of like, fascinates me.
So I pitched them for ideas and then they we talked about them a
(37:21):
little bit on the Zoom and then we got off the call and then I
heard nothing and thought, Oh well, OK, well that was fun.
They were, they were nice to talk to.
And so but I guess nothing's going to come of that.
And then two months later I got a phone call from my manager and
he said, OK, so they bought 2 ofthem and you're good to go.
And I was like, Oh my God, because this was so different.
(37:44):
What it was so different than mytypical experience because
usually, you know, when I'm, I usually when I'm selling a
movie, I'm kind of like, OK, well, I have to break the whole
story and come up with, you know, a long pitch and then go
back and forth. And there's a lot of that.
But no. But it was, it was really
flattering. They believed in the strength of
(38:04):
my writing enough. And then also really, really
truly loved these two concepts, which which ended up becoming
Santa Tell Me and Sugar Plummed.So, so it was a real head
turning experience, but it was super exciting and, and it's
great. I love working with those guys.
(38:25):
And so it's, you know, it was, it was such a great experience
throughout. We're working on new stuff now,
which I cannot talk about, but but you will be hearing more
about soon. And yeah.
And so that was kind of the experience with them.
And and so it was, it was fast, much like the making of their
movies. It was a very quick experience.
At what point did they offer or ask you to also direct?
(38:47):
Or was that something that was important to you to shepherd the
idea through to the finish line?It was, it was something that we
had discussed early on, but thatdidn't real.
I was, you know, it was something I had expressed to
them that I would want to do. But then really they like to
(39:08):
handle things one thing at a time.
So we got the script, we got the, you know, we Santa tell me
we got the script to where it needed to be.
And then all of a sudden my repswere getting calls checking
about availability to direct andthen that was that.
And then, you know, a very shortamount of time later there was
on set. So, so it's great.
And also, you know, it just, it just speaks to again, like the
creative collaboration with those guys.
(39:30):
They they really value somebody with a taking kind of a holistic
perspective to it from the script all the way through to
the finished product. And and I think it also really
helps because the movies are made quite quickly.
And so it really helps to have somebody on set who is that
close because the the writer isn't always on set every single
(39:52):
day. I would say it's actually the
exception. So it was nice to be able to be
there to make changes as required based on what was going
on, knowing, you know, this story inside and out.
So it was a real, it that was I think a real benefit.
Yeah. Well, we touched on this.
The the acting was so lovely andthe writing and the directing.
(40:16):
I mean, Hallmark, obviously theyhave their formula, but with
your films, it, it worked withinthe Hallmark sandbox, but it, it
had this freshness to it that itwas a, it was not something
where out of context you'd be like, oh, that's a Hallmark
holiday film. It was, it was a beautiful
holiday story. And you also have some just
(40:38):
lovely photos on your Instagram and of like you with the cast
and things like that. It seems like it was just a, a
really lovely experience and funbehind the scenes as well as
what we as the audience got to enjoy.
But I'm curious if you have any favorite memories from set,
because I know those are very, they're very tight turn around
films. They can be.
Yeah. Sugar Plummed was initially
(41:01):
scheduled for Christmas this year, but then there a window
became available. Another movie had fallen apart
for some reason. I don't, I was never Privy to
the reasons why, But we went very quickly from zero to 100.
And so we started shooting that.Gosh, I think that like we
(41:21):
really pulled the trigger and I found out that it was an active
development in August of 2024 and then we had completed
photography by the end of September 2024.
So it was really quick, but alsoI was so, you know, I'd already
cut my teeth doing Santa tell meand and knew the speed with
(41:44):
which we needed to work and kindof was more familiar with the
machine and was super happy withthe end product.
I didn't feel like we had to compromise on quality anywhere.
And yeah, and then the fun of both movies really just to to
speak about, you know, the the hallmark of it is and and I
think why, you know, I've been thrilled to see how positively
the movies have been received. I kind of really when I even
(42:06):
from the the formative stage, wanted to take kind of like a
cake and eat it too approach because I in looking at the the
movies that had really stood outfor the network and been
successes, I understood all the building blocks of like, well,
these are the beats that people really love to see.
And these are this is how these stories are put together, same
as any ROM com, really. But my goal was to deliver those
(42:29):
beats, but then subvert whereverpossible in a way that would
surprise and delight. So it was essentially giving
people what they wanted, you know, or were expecting with one
of these movies, but then find away to make that unexpected.
And then that's what I'm trying to do as much as possible, not
only with them, but like with any movie really.
But but with the Hallmark ones, it's it's a really fun challenge
(42:55):
just because, Yeah, because there are a lot of them that are
made. And you know, they do follow
these beats quite rigidly sometimes, but also Hallmark as,
as a creative operation is so much more open to bending and
changing and innovation than people might think.
So that's why it's been such, it's part of the reason why it's
(43:16):
been such a positive experience working with them.
Also, they're really, really nice people.
I don't know why I was surprised, but I was kind of
like, I'm shocked constantly by how kind they are just as
people. It's, it's what you would
imagine somebody who worked essentially at like, you know, a
company that makes lovely greeting cards would be.
They're just like they're, they're just, you know, they're
friends. They're lovely, lovely people to
(43:37):
deal with. Please overlook me because it
was last Christmas but Santa tell me was the one there was a
like a sleigh scene in like a a back beach area with the snow
correct? That was that one, right?
OK, It was so lovely because it was like you said, it's like
this ROM com moment again, I want to hats off to you.
It was just it was just very well done.
(43:58):
Very. Very.
Oh, thank you, thank you. No, it's funny.
It's like that sort of stuff. It comes because I'm kind of a
I'm a very sentimental, you know, guy.
And also when I was, you know, I'm married now, but when I was
dating, I was you kind of the, the king of the grand gesture a
little bit. And so it's like that sort of
stuff. I love putting that sort of
stuff into my movies because even my old roommates watched
(44:21):
it. They were kind of like, this
just feels like something that you would have done.
And it's like, yeah, pretty much.
But no. Thank you for the kind words.
It's so nice you to say. As we wind down, I do want to
hit rewind and talk about your thesis film, The Midnight
Express. Oh wow.
OK, sure. We're we're big proponents of
education here and, and, and youtalked about what a great
experience it was for you, but for an early career project, it
(44:43):
was really celebrated in the festival space.
Who were some of the mentors or creative community that helped
come around you in supporting that?
And what were some of the inspirations behind behind that
thesis? Oh, sure.
So, so for those I, I, I, I think that we can provide a link
in the show notes. So Midnight Express was the
(45:05):
thesis film I made at USC during, when I was an undergrad.
And, and essentially it's a, it's a modern day fairy tale
about a young boy named Charlie who has a very specific problem.
And that's that an overnight train every night, 12 O 1:00 AM,
comes barreling through his closet, across his bedroom, and
(45:25):
then exits through the bathroom door.
And it prevents him from ever getting a good night's sleep.
So he has to find an outside thebox and an unorthodox solution
in order to solve this problem because he's getting very tired
of it. So anyway, it was a it was a
really crazy experience putting that together because we were
shooting it. I mean, you don't even want to
(45:48):
talk about like a shoestring. Like there was no shoe, there
was no string. Like it was like it was a
student film that we were shooting on 16 millimetre black
and white. This is back when people shot on
film. We had to cut by hand, not just
picture, but sound. So we had, you know, we had our
all our sound effects on the magnetic tape.
This makes me sound like I'm 1000 years old.
By the way, this wasn't that long ago.
(46:10):
USC really values film. They switched to digital in the
meantime. But anyway, so it was this 5 1/2
minute film that required a lot of, you know, kind of fun
outside the box ways to kind of convey this, this really kind of
bigger budget idea. And the movie came together
great. And so, you know, I had my, you
know, the teaching staff at USC was exceptional.
(46:33):
It's I, I truly believe it's theabsolute best film school in the
world. But also, you know, what I had
there was my, was my peers. So I had like a close
collaborator, a guy I still workwith to this day, who's a huge
director in television named AviWavian.
And so he and I were, we were partners in our class that year.
We had like our other, you know,all of our friends who are
(46:54):
again, are still kind of like, who are doing fantastic, amazing
things in the industry. And so we all kind of came
together and rallied around. It was like a very kind of like,
community approach. And yeah, the movie performed
spectacularly. We won at Slamdance.
It went to 30 festivals nationwide.
It was featured in somehow featured in the National Gallery
(47:14):
of Art in Washington, DC, which I still have trouble wrapping my
head around. I saw that on.
Your website and I was like, howdid that turn about like?
So crazy because it's really because it's a, it's a student
film like it. And I'm very proud of it,
people. And I'm so delighted that you
bring it up because people stilldo like John Chu still brings it
(47:35):
up to me all the time. He's like, do you remember your
student film? I'm like, yes, I remember him at
MIT Express. But I'll tell you the best thing
to come out of it was that therewas a screening at USC and who
showed up at the screening was Bob Dusay, who was Steve Summers
producing partner. And he saw it.
(47:56):
And then that was our touch point.
And so I emailed him to thank him for coming to the screening.
And then that got me an internship at his company, which
then kind of set me on this pathto be able to kind of like, you
know, so really it's kind of like it's all about just putting
yourself out there, finding those connections, fostering
them where you can. And then also it's like you
never know what's going to come out of something, you know,
(48:19):
because we put that movie together with, with nothing but,
you know, but, but hard work andpassion and, and real love for
the story that we were putting together.
And then that's what resonated and then created this new
opportunity. So you never know where
opportunity comes and it can be just around the corner.
But yes, but please go watch Midnight express.
(48:41):
It's really fun. It's a little piece of my heart.
It's a really, really cute movie.
And I I'm biased, but I stand bythat.
Right. I can't believe our time is up.
We end every episode the same way.
What is one thing you wish you could go back until your younger
self? Oh, that's all going to be OK.
You know, I mean, because there are, this is a really tough
(49:01):
business and and there are really good days and there are
really tough days. I mean, days where it's like
you, because you have to, by virtue of what we do, be
emotionally invested in everything that you do, you have
to truly believe that the story you're going to tell is the best
(49:22):
version of the story. You have to truly believe that
whatever you're pitching on, youare the person for that job and
you're not always going to get the job.
And so that can be, that can be a blow, but you just have to get
back up and just keep on going. And so I think it's just, you
know, realizing that there are ebbs and flows and that you can
take these bets on yourself. You can consistently double down
(49:45):
on yourself because it will all be OK.
You know, there will always be new opportunity.
There will always be something that comes out of it.
And everything happens for a reason.
Because I've also noticed that sometimes when a job doesn't
work out in the moment, it's soul crushing.
(50:05):
But then a week or six months ora year later, you look back and
realize, Oh my God, not getting that job is the best thing that
ever happened to me. So even defeats can end up being
victories. It's just all about taking that
long term perspective, hanging on and continuing to make cool
stuff and tell fun stories. And that is really the best
(50:27):
device that I can give. Ryan, thank you so much for
sharing your creativity, your positivity.
It's really been a joy to hear about your career and I'm so
excited for what's what's to come.
So thank you SO. Much.
Oh yeah. Oh, there's some fun stuff
coming down the pipe so. Please keep us posted so that I
can just continue to populate iton on our socials and people can
(50:48):
follow along 100. Percent.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame?
To stay in the know for upcomingevents, I'm your host, Laura
(51:09):
Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
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