September 1, 2025 • 41 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by veteran casting director, Jessica Daniels. With more than two decades of experience across film and television; Jessica is known for her sharp eye and collaborative approach. She’s helped shape ensembles for projects like 30 Rock, Will Trent, The Miseducation of Cameron Post, and Dying for Sex.
A former VP of Casting at Disney TV Studios, Jessica moves fluidly between studio and indie worlds, with a track record of championing emerging talent and making bold, story-driven choices. Jessica's vibrant heart for creatives is evident in all that she does! Now let's get to this special conversation.
Instagram: @jdcstg
8 Takeaways from Casting Masterclass with Jessica Daniels | The Business | SAG-AFTRA Foundation
-
What's My Frame, hosted by Laura Linda Bradley
Join the WMF creative community now!
Instagram: @whatsmyframe
IMDb
What's My Frame? official site
What's My Frame? merch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi everyone Today and What's My Frame?
I'm Jimmy, veteran casting director Jessica Daniels.
With more than two decades of experience across film and
television, Jessica is known forher sharp eye and collaborative
approach to casting. She's helped shave ensembles for
projects like 30 Rock, Will Trent, The MIS, Education of
Cameron Post, and Dying for Sex,to name just a few.
(00:22):
As a former VP of Casting at Disney TV Studios, Jessica moves
seamlessly between studio and indie worlds with the track
record of champion emerging talent and making bold, story
driven choices. Jessica's vibrant heart for
creatives is evident in all thatshe does and I cannot wait to
share this special episode with you all.
Now let's get to the conversation.
(00:45):
Hey, Jessica, welcome to What's My Friend?
How you doing? I'm good.
Thanks so much for having me. We like to start out with
everyone's kind of creative origin story, what drew them to
the arts, what keeps them in love with this career.
So if you don't mind sharing a little bit of the twist and
turns that led you to a world and casting?
Sure. I don't really remember a time
(01:05):
when I didn't love the arts and entertainment and I was a little
ham, you know, starting as soon as I could talk.
I grew up in New York City and was just so fortunate to have,
you know, the theater in my backyard and, and really took
advantage of that. And I did, you know, a bunch of
like acting and writing all through grade school.
(01:29):
And then in college I acted in some of the productions, but I
also went backstage and directedand wrote something and kind of
got more interested in the behind the scenes.
And so when I left college, I had an intern or sorry, Well, I
was in college, I had an internship at Backstage
newspaper, but that was my firstjob when I got hired out of
college. So that's sort of where I cut my
(01:52):
teeth on like what the casting process was.
I just wasn't familiar with it. But because Backstage was
editing casting notices and I, you know, I interviewed a lot of
casting directors. That's how I found out what
casting was. And then how did you parlay that
into an actual career in casting?
So because I was interviewing all these people in the biz, I
(02:12):
think it was Jack Carlson who isnow a nurse and he is saving the
world. But he was a very beloved agent
for many years and he knew that Mikey Hilbrun was heading up the
pilot season casting for UPN, which is now CW.
So he introduced us and I becameher assistant for three months
(02:33):
because it was just a three month gig.
And then after that I got my first sort of like long term
job, which was for AV Kaufman, which was for four years.
And along the journey of becauseI mean, you've had a beautiful
career in TV, film streamers network, you've been able to and
I think that's one of the beautiful things about New York.
I feel like those casting directors have a little bit more
opportunity to jump into different sandboxes, but do you
(02:57):
have any mentors or pivotal opportunities that kind of just
really made? Yes, absolutely.
Jen McNamara was a huge mentor for me.
She hired me to, to help out as her associate on 30 Rock and
ended up, you know, promoting pro and I mean the casting
director and was just one of the, the most incredible work
(03:18):
experiences. And I just learned so much from
her. Nancy Clapper, who is an amazing
casting director in LA, She castRisky business and office space,
got me to join the union right when it started and was also
just a huge mentor. But I, I mean, I really learned
from, you know, everyone that I,I worked with both what I wanted
to emulate and what I, you know,didn't think was necessarily
(03:42):
healthy for my, my own life. Yeah.
You know what, but look at you being self aware to know this is
something I don't need to carry along with me.
These are things I will take andI think sometimes coming up we
take everything and, and I thinkyou lose your creative vision
and you lose what is healthy balance for you personally and.
(04:03):
Right. And I will, yeah, I will say I
feel really fortunate also like in the other direction.
I have brought up, you know, Erica Hart and Daniel Frankel
and Carly Famalon and just some like incredible casting
professionals that I, I mean, I'm not going to take credit
for, you know, giving them theirfirst jobs, but I think maybe I
had something to do. But no, they're, they are now,
(04:25):
you know, friends and and colleagues and and that's been
super rewarding too in that. Direction when you're at a place
in your career or anywhere in your life where you're at a
place where you can give a hand up to the next person coming up
the ladder, I think that's that's so beneficial and one of
the things that makes our industry so special.
And that's why I always love to talk about mentorship and
(04:45):
mentoring because I don't think we talk about it enough,
especially in the current iteration of Hollywood with the
disconnect of reaching out to your peers or who is doing what.
You would love to be in that those rooms and asking for a
coffee because a small ask and sometimes turn into really
meaningful connection. Totally.
And especially an independent casting because we really are
(05:08):
fairly siloed, you know, like especially now that we're.
I mean, I used to share office space with Julie Schubert and
Rory Bergman and at one point with Bolling Misha and and
Rosalie Joseph, we were just like all in the same, you know,
casting office space. So we could like run into each
other's offices. Henry Bergstein, Allison Estrin.
Yeah. So that those were, that was
really fun in, you know, in the before times, but now working
(05:33):
from our, you know, mostly from our homes, it can feel like
you're on an island. So having those connections I
think is just so important. Were there any projects coming
into your own as a casting director and what you were going
to become known for, like your creative vision?
Oh, I think probably unlike someof the first independence that I
(05:55):
cast on my own. So one was Nasty Baby, which was
Sebastian Silva's film that wentto Sundance with Tunde at a
Bimpe and and Kristen Wiig and Sebastian starred in it.
That was he's just such an art. Sebastian is such an artist in
every sense of the word. And just to get to play, like,
(06:17):
with him and be in his mind for,you know, so many months and,
like, just see who he, you know,he was attracted to what type of
talent, Like, translating what he had on the page into, you
know, what energy I had sensed from different actors.
Like, it was just purely creative and fun.
And yeah, it was just a blast. Yeah.
(06:40):
I think I'm white girl too, working with Elizabeth Wood, who
is incredibly talented filmmaker.
That one was a little trickier just because we had some more
stops and starts with the production and and having to
reraise financing and stuff. But but she too just had such a
strong vision and what caused meto get hooked on independent
(07:01):
film to be able to like work with these authors in creating
their worlds and not having like, you know, a ton of outside
influence. Like it really, it's really just
the director and the casting director in that process that,
you know, producer is creative and supportive.
And yeah, it's, I mean, we're not doing it for the money or
(07:22):
for our health, but for us, for our creative, you know, spirits.
It's really, it is really fulfilling to work on things and
then to have them, you know, go out into the world and actually
be meaningful to people. I hope that we are in a era of
like resurgence for indie film and and indie film storytellers
because, well, we'll talk about some some of those projects
(07:43):
later. But I'm curious, when you read a
script for an indie project, what about the script or the
creative that is that is bringing it to you get you
excited or makes you want to move to that next step of a
meeting or getting to know them further?
I mean, one litmus test is that like, I can't put the script
down and I have a lot of distractions.
(08:03):
So it's actually rare that I getthrough a script in one sitting.
But yeah, that's that's definitely one or yeah.
I mean, sometimes it's just it'sjust a character that I feel
like I haven't seen before or I'm working with a director now.
Her name is Carmen Angelica and she's been directing on The
(08:24):
Daily Show for many, many years,but she hasn't done, you know, a
a narrative feature yet. And she's just, she's incredibly
talented and like, so it's just it's really fun to be working on
her first feature, which I really respond to the script,
but also just the idea of her parlaying her comedic and like,
you know, TV chops into this. It's essentially like a a really
(08:45):
irreverent horror film is really, you know, it, it what?
A jump. It's exciting, it's such a jump,
but like it's clear as day in her mind.
It's on the page, it's in the lookbook, like it's, you know, I
I have no doubt that you know, she's going to be a force to be
reckoned with, But so it's fun to get in early.
I've had the fortune of doing, you know, with Rod a blank on on
(09:08):
40 year old version and and a bunch of other film makers that
I got to, you know, introduce tothe casting process.
Yeah. When you meet with a director
for the first time, is it prettyinstantaneous for you to know
like yes, this is a fit? Or do you fall in love with
their creative process and understand their like, nuances
and quirks throughout the process?
(09:30):
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's actually kind of it's, it's
really a lot like dating. So when when I meet a director
or I also don't know, like maybeI know that they want to work
with me more than other people, but I don't know for sure.
And usually directors are meeting with like a couple
casting directors before they they decide.
So it's sort of like a little bit of a dance, like, you know,
do you like me or, you know, do I?
(09:52):
When you don't think about that,it just goes really well.
And like you're so on the same page.
Then it's, you know, effortless and fun And and that certainly
happens. But sometimes it's just more
like, you know, feeling each other out.
And I have not very often, but Ihave had to leave a project
because like I wasn't on the same page with the director and
not even in like a contentious way, but like I'm thinking of
one specific instance where justlike, I just felt like I was
(10:16):
always defending like who I was,you know, suggesting and like
trying to get her to see my point of view.
And it's like we're just not, we're not clicking.
Like this is just not you. You will have someone that you
will work with better than than me.
And I will find a director that I, you know, speak the same
language with. So it's just we part ways.
Yeah, but again, like compliments to your
(10:38):
self-awareness because you having the self-awareness to
step away that project and creative voice gets told in the
way that they they see and yeah,you're safe in your mental
health in the process, right. Right.
It shouldn't, it shouldn't feel like such a heavy lift.
I mean, it's hard enough to get a a independent film made like
you want you want to be on the same team as.
(10:59):
Yeah, 100%. You want to be with people you
enjoy regarding of whether there's money or not money like
you want to explain who you're working with.
I'd love to jump into a couple of project specific questions,
including Diane for congratulations on your Emmy
nomination. Thank you so much.
How did the project come to you?Like I've, I've had a chance to
talk to Liz at a couple of like events and I mean, she's
(11:20):
fantastic, but how, how did the project?
Liz Meriwether, Yeah. Oh, Liz's she's the most unique,
talented I and I don't know how she does it with because she's
she's always littles. It's such a joy.
For it just such an unfiltered joy for this business.
So refreshing. Yeah, and I had worked with Liz
(11:40):
on The Dropout, but but I came to dying for sex through Jeanie
Bacharach, who is incredible casting director, obviously the
Bear and she originally worked on Miss Maisel.
She just did the last season of Beef.
So Jeanie and I had worked together.
It was like the tail end of the strike for me when I got dying
for sex. So it was like the first sort of
(12:02):
like union job that I took on after not working for probably
like 8 or 9 months. Like I had some, you know, any
films with waivers, but those were not, you know, keeping the
lights on necessarily. So it was just sort of like I
had lost my health insurance. So it had, you know, in terms of
that, it had been a real like lifesaver.
(12:23):
And I just love Jeannie. Like not only is she like
incredible casting driver, she'sjust like an awesome human
being. So that's how I, you know, was
hired on that job. And it was sort of a strange
experience for me. So I, I found out about it and
then I listened to the podcast and was just like a wreck.
(12:44):
And concurrently, really, unfortunately, one of my very
best friends in the world got a similar diagnosis to Molly in
the show. So going through that with her,
she is one of the strongest people I know and she's actually
doing really well right now. So, you know, knock on wood, she
will continue to fight, fight, fight until, you know, there's
(13:06):
some better treatments and and cure.
But it was sort of a strange experience being able to work on
this project with all of these incredible, mostly women
creators. It was hilarious and it was
heartbreaking. And I became very close also to
Nikki Boyer, who, you know, did the podcast with Molly and has
been such a like incredible friend and and rock for me.
(13:27):
So, yeah, so it was just like a really, really special project
in addition to being like this one that's getting, you know,
creative accolades and and that's, that's the icing of it
because I, yeah, it's just been one of the most meeting projects
I've ever worked on. Everyone seemed to be working at
their highest level, but also supported and given the freedom
(13:47):
to work at their highest level. And I think when you when you
have people that are so good at what they do and love the
project that they're working on,that's when something like so
special and so meaningful comes about.
So I'm curious after, you know, binging the podcast and reading
everything, what was those conversations like of getting
Molly's voice right, getting the, you know, Jenny's character
(14:09):
and, and the different voices inthat world?
Yeah, I mean, Michelle was attached.
I feel like Michelle's. I mean, I don't this isn't can't
be overstated. She's one of the best actresses
of our generation. You know, she's just
extraordinary. I think people don't give her
credit enough for how funny she is.
You know, like I remember Dick and, you know, she, she's funny.
So to let her be her, you know, brilliant, funny self, you know,
(14:32):
she was attached when, you know,when I came on board.
But so I wasn't part of any of those conversations, but it was
just you're like pinching yourself to be in that front
seat to like see things unfold. It was unbelievably like awesome
watching Michelle work. I mean, she's just and seeing
that performance come together because, you know, rightly for
(14:55):
her own processing, she was holding back in a little bit.
And you know, the when it was she was just reading with other
actresses to play Nikki. And so so then just to see,
yeah, how how she worked and, and the level of commitment that
she had to the character. So it was really, I mean, it's
she, she, she, she has the success she has for a reason.
(15:16):
I mean, yes. Incredibly, incredibly talented.
And Jenny camera chem tested with Michelle.
So she she read, which is, you know, unusual and a testament to
Jenny that at her level, you know, she's still fighting for
for roles, but she she just she was extraordinary.
I mean, that performance was there from the test.
(15:37):
You know, it was it was just so amazing.
And you're like sitting on this firecracker, like knowing that
it's going to go out in the world and be this incredible.
But having seen it before, anyone seen it, that's also like
another, you know, I'm not responsible for it, but another
pinched me moment. But I think what was really fun
for me because I was working with Jeannie and and really
responsible for like creating the world of New York, The story
(16:00):
didn't actually unfold in New York.
It unfolded in LA, even though Molly is originally from New
York and her mom still lives in New York.
But they they shot here because Michelle Williams lives here.
So lucky for me. But so there was a real sort of
conscious effort to make the world feel real and authentic
(16:21):
and and everyone, you know, should feel distinct.
And as we spoke about, Liz and also Kim Rosenstock are just
some of the funniest people. So like to be able to put really
funny people in front of them and like have them sort of fall
in love with these, you know, recurring guests or guests or Co
stars like that. It was just, it was so fun, you
know? When you're balancing emotional
(16:42):
elements, but also these comedy beats, there's this like dance
and I'm curious, how do you communicate in the in the
virtual world of auditions and self tapes?
How do you find it most beneficial to communicate?
What would be easier as a conversation but in the current
iteration of auditions? Like talking out the nuance of
(17:05):
tone and voice and comedic beats, but like levity and but
also the the gravity of the subject matter.
Sure. No, it's it's difficult and it
has always been difficult even like when things were live with
a project like this because it'sa limited series.
So it's not out in the world. I mean, we know Liz's voice, but
still like this is very different from the New Girl and
(17:26):
drop drop out and most of the guest actors are not getting
full scripts like they're just getting their sides.
So so that always is like somewhat of a challenge, but
also sort of understanding the larger scheme of the piece.
Like what is the scene when we're we're talking about, you
know, series regularly, that's adifferent that's a different
conversation. But when we're talking about
someone that's going to serve a purpose, you know, within the
(17:48):
story, one could argue Puppy played by Conrad, Rick Amora,
you know, wasn't necessarily playing it for like the pathos.
And, you know, he I think that we offered that to him, but so
he didn't read for that, but still like it was just he is an
actor who can really fully encapsulate so many different
(18:12):
emotions and and, you know, different levels.
It's just up. He's just so talented.
So like knowing that was going to mold very well with, you
know, what the writers were doing, what Shannon Murphy, our
director was doing, I think someof those those auditions.
So I did do a bunch of zooms. Like for every character, we
would do a couple hours of zooms.
So in terms of that, even thoughit's not ideal, you are giving
(18:35):
notes to the actors otherwise. I mean, I really think it is
trying to pull the right material.
Sometimes we'll even put like a couple of notes or like we'll
include part of a scene that they're not going to read so
that there's information on the character.
Sometimes there's there are notes in the actual like
appointment that goes out. And then we did do some
callbacks where it's like not necessarily with like the
(18:56):
director or the OR the producers, but like where
someone sent in a tape and it was good, but it didn't quite
get it. And so to get them there, we
would just call them back on Zoom.
I'm assuming since it was a limited series, you maybe had a
little bit more time versus say like Will Trent kind of
episodic. It's 100%, yeah.
That that trend was more. Like casting a movie.
And then in that sense, because we were able to get a real
(19:18):
running start, yeah. Have you seen a positive
evolution in self tapes to the point that you're not feeling
like you want to give the same note repeatedly?
I. Think some of the flexibility of
it is really beneficial for all of us, right?
Like people have lives, things to do, you know, they're not
always able to. I mean, my, my office, my for
(19:40):
five years was all the way downtown.
It was near every subway, but still was kind of a schlep.
I'm also able to see act, you know, a lot of actors who live
in LA and in other places, especially for Will Trent.
I appreciate that it gives us, you know, a lot more
flexibility. That said, it's such a human
pursuit acting and and I mean, even though, you know, it's
(20:01):
recorded, it's not necessarily, you know, live, but it's still
it's we're picking up on energies and it's harder to do
that on zoom. It just is, you know, So I wish
that there was like a, a better balance, but.
You know, we go with the IT was funny when you were talking
about my like background and like that I've, you know, been
in TV and film and streaming andit's like I didn't, I didn't
(20:23):
predict that this career was going to take that many turns.
Like when I when I started, it was like prime TV.
It was like Sopranos had just, you know, that was the like the
big show and there was so much excitement for like all these,
you know, incredible series thatwere, were just coming out the
wire. But there were definitely still
like movie actors that the big thing was NNI and TV meaning
(20:46):
like not interested in TV. If we would call the agents and
ask for someone's availability, they would just be like, no, I'm
a movie star and I not interested.
Oh, how the times have changed. You shared some beautiful advice
at the SAG after Foundation about headshots.
We'll link that in the show notes.
But if you wouldn't mind talkingabout headshots, I think there
(21:07):
is such a conversation of it. Is it really raw?
Is it to produce? Like what does casting want?
What are they drawn to? And I've always believed it so
much like in the eyes and it's it's the person.
It's not this like look that you're crying to curate.
But you said it really beautifully.
If you wouldn't mind kind of expanding on what your eye is
drawn to and headshots. Yeah, I'm really just drawn to
like an authenticity or like a spark of life.
(21:31):
I collect images and I feel likethat's the best way to
communicate with a photographer to say, like, I want something
that sort of feels this way. And it's the same thing as like
we were speaking about relationships with directors or
writers. Like you have to kind of gel
with the photographer, right? And, and hopefully they make you
feel really comfortable because again, as some of my own life
(21:54):
mirrors that of an actor's. I had my my headshots taken a
little over a year ago and therewere some of the best pictures
that I'd ever seen of myself because we're all so protocol
right? Of, of ourselves.
We look like in on all of that, but think I got it done, my
yellow belly and they made me feel so comfortable and like the
the pictures just showed that like how like in comfortable
(22:14):
with my skin and like, you know,all these sort of different.
They really captured sort of different expressions that I
had. And and so it really was it's
like past the vanity of like, doI look OK?
And it's like, this is me And and of course I do like how I
look. I like how I'm coming across
because it's me and, you know, this is accurate.
And so I think when I'm looking at actors photos too, like I, I
(22:37):
just of course it should, you know, especially for ATV where
there's still an emphasis on, you know, looking polished in a
certain way that I think, you know, we have certainly moved
away from just the, the cookie cutter look for the most part.
But yeah, you should look like yourself on your best day is I
think is the the thing that mostpeople sort of cite.
(22:58):
But also, yeah, if you can just really be kind of comfortable
and and show us who you are. And that's that's what we're
looking to see. And we don't want the person
then to like walk into the zoom or walk into the room and like
not be recognizable from their like glam shot.
And I don't trust a lot of glammy type things.
I really don't so. I'm curious if you have any
(23:20):
advice for actors on becoming better self directors of their
self tapes? Just even last week I was just
sort of like surprised there were some actors who sent me
like several takes of the same scene and like they really were
not that different. So if it's possible to just have
like more of a self-awareness about that, like you're going to
send 2 takes, like they really have to be significantly
(23:40):
different from each other and have a reason for being
different. But I don't know, I think maybe
in response to like your earlierquestion, actors have become a
lot more savvy about self tapingand sort of understanding where
the beats in the scene are. And, and really in almost every
case where we can, there's like some sort of, you know,
character arc even in their, youknow, their guest role.
(24:02):
And so showing the multiple sides of the character in the
two different scenes that we're giving you to tape understanding
the show. So like we just started Season 4
of Will Trent. Obviously it's very accessible
for people on Hulu to to know what the tone is because it's
procedural, but it's an unusual one.
Like it has a lot of irreverenceand and humor.
(24:23):
Literally my next question. Yeah.
Oh, really? Oh, there you go.
So just knowing the tone of it Ithink is real is like, that's
like half the battle. Yeah.
Now, I appreciate you sharing that.
And I know it is, it is a perfunctory question about the
craft. But at the same time, from
talking with friends both in theacting world and the casting
world, some actors are hearing chatter that is not beneficial
(24:47):
and they're using filters and they're using things on their
auditions. And it's it's causing this
trickle effect of it's a lot of energy and a lot of effort in
the wrong direction versus coming back to the the
foundation of it. And that's what I'm trying to.
No. And that's, that's super back.
Over here. Yeah, 'cause it also it ties
into like wanting to please, like what do they want, going to
(25:10):
do what they want versus like taking the material and doing
what you want and showing us what you think it is like.
I mean, I, I know again, I'm notthe only one to say this, but I,
I just think that that's the real shift in mentality that can
also make, you know, it can justchange an actor's point of view
(25:31):
and agency like to not always betrying to do what other people
want to see, you know? I completely agree.
All right, well, let's talk about Will Trent and past
season, Season 4 coming up. And also honorable invention to
Betty. Love that dog.
I mean, we love Betty. We love.
I mean, honestly, can we get a Emmy nom for Betty?
But anyway, I know, I digress. How does your process shift?
(25:54):
Because we talked about that, like with the limited series,
you have more of a film timeline.
How are you staying on top of that treadmill with the
episodic? I mean, it is hard because
sometimes we don't have a lot oftime to cast role.
I mean, we've had had instances where we only have like a couple
days because like a script changes or comes in late.
I will say, and I'm not just blowing smoke like my
(26:17):
showrunners, the writers on the show are so extraordinary and
they really keep us in the loop.And when they have a, you know,
a big character coming up, they try to give us as much time as
possible. And the characters that they
write are fun. So like, that's been really
amazing to like, just, I don't know, see actors just delight in
(26:37):
taping for some of these roles and just like really go the
extra mile, you know, because because they have, you know,
stuff to to, you know, cut theirteeth on because it's, you know,
there's real meat there. So I started on Season 3 with
Wiltren. So it takes a while to get to
know somebody's sensibility. And our show owners are Liz
(26:59):
Heldens and Dan Thompson. And this year, Corinne Rosenthal
is joining them. And yeah, you get into a rhythm.
And so you sort of know or you think you know who they're going
to respond to. And then, yeah, so it's just
fun. It is fun to also get the
episodes and read the roles. And then, you know, every, every
(27:19):
episode you get a new, new shot to, to surprise them and get
them excited about. I have a couple of friends that
are directors that have been guest directors on the show.
And I've heard such amazing things about how collaborative
you all are and just the conversations and the the space
in which you give room for theirvoice and their input as the
(27:41):
guest director. And I'm curious how you all have
started establishing those conversations when your guest
director is coming in and havingthat like kind of three-point
conversation between showrunners, guest director and
casting. Yeah, how you make your selects?
Yeah, I mean, I, I really creditthe team for their extraordinary
(28:01):
leadership. I have never received so many
calls from agents or actors likepost shooting, like just how
extraordinary the set is, how like appreciative everyone is.
I mean, we have a lot of actors who are now directing on the
show. Ramon has been such a phenomenal
director and he's directing 401 and Erica Christensen.
(28:22):
And yeah, we've worked. It's just, it's very
collaborative. And we have, you know, I can
only speak to the casting, but we have concept calls for every
episode where we're talking, youknow, about the entire episode
and what the, you know, the roles should feel like.
I work with an extraordinary casting team in the Southeast,
Matt Safik, and we, you know, are, are in close communication.
(28:46):
So I think it's so nice, like everyone just does their job.
Everyone does their job really well.
And we, we like each other genuinely and like, it's just a
good job. I mean, it's honestly like I
like knock everything cuz unfortunately that's not the,
the norm necessarily. But like, it's just awesome to
like work with people who are so, you know, talented and, and
(29:10):
hard working and just decent people.
And we're all just working on a show.
And you know what, I think it shows.
I do, you know, I think you can tell that that the actors and
the crew are tight and having a good time.
Yeah. I think especially as as busy as
we all are now and as much as we're, we're trying to consume
and and try to stay current and trying to be ahead of the curve
(29:32):
when it organically comes up, just in conversation of how
positive an experience was working, it means just that much
more nowadays. So shifting gears, I'd love to
talk about the MIS education of Cameron Post.
How did you become involved in casting with that project?
It had a beautiful festival life.
Oh yeah, thank you. I love, I love that film still.
(29:54):
So this one was funny because Desiree Akvan and I met during
film school. We went to different film
schools, both in New York, but she was a couple years younger
than me and Crude on some of my sets.
Crude did script super because we would all do all the jobs.
I definitely had to hold more than I I'm qualified to do.
(30:18):
Are you raising the roof? It was.
Like what? What's happening?
Oh, no, no, boom holding boom really built some biceps.
But so we had had that relationship and like, you know,
knew a lot of the same people. And so when she came to me, they
had been trying to get the financing together.
Couldn't, but I loved the scriptand sort of, you know,
(30:38):
immediately was excited to dive in.
And then very quickly after I signed on Chloë Grace Moretz, I
don't remember the name of the movie that she dropped out of,
but she just like quit all of the films that she was attached
to. So all the tentpole films and
was like, I don't want to work on anything that I don't believe
in. I really only want to work on
meaningful material. And we knew, you know, Chloe at
(31:00):
the time, I don't she didn't identify as queer, but she has
two brothers who do. And so it was a very important
topic for her to to address homophobia and especially, you
know, through such a beloved story and book.
And so she met with Desi and, and signed on and like, then we
(31:20):
were making a movie, which was so awesome.
And so that was also like a lot of different.
I had met with Sasha Lane, like just as, you know, I'm like a
general, like she'd come to my office to chat and just thought
she was the coolest. And then she actually came like
a couple months later and we were both like, oh, we've met
before. So it was like the universe is
trying to tell us to, you know, collaborate.
(31:41):
So. So that was a great one.
I knew Forrest, good luck from the Revenant.
I don't think we were doing Zoomat that point, but like, Skyped
with him, you know, because he was living I think, in New
Mexico. OK.
And then a lot, you know, we were auditions.
John Gallagher Junior was an author.
Jennifer Ely was an author. But yeah, it was just, it was a
really like, there weren't a lotof queer films being made at the
(32:05):
time, especially about like, theyounger, younger populations and
stuff. So like it, it really spoke to
so many people who ended up doing it and, and it was really,
really meaningful for them and for me and for, you know, for
all of us. I think Quinn Shepherd played an
important part in film. She's an actress and writer,
director. And I know that the the film was
(32:25):
like deeply meaningful to her. It was such extraordinary actors
who are like really compassionate human beings.
Owen Campbell broke my heart in that role.
I know that it was a really Seminole shooting experience for
him and just, I mean, still people.
I mean, this was what it was 10 years ago at least, right?
So, people. Still 2016.
Will still come up to me and andmention that film like how
(32:47):
important it was for them. And it's just so so awesome to
know that, you know, the thing that positively affected so many
people. It did feel like like what we
were doing, you know had an extra importance.
And, you know, and really makingsure that, you know, everyone,
(33:09):
everyone has a right to have their story be told.
And not to mention like everyonehas a right to exist and love
who they love and be who they authentically are without, you
know, government intervention. And so, so, yeah, so it was
really, it was really meaningfulin a lot of ways working on that
that. Movie.
I think the first time that I saw it, what was so special to
(33:31):
me was it was giving agency and a stage and a voice to a young
person's experience. Because so often we hear
someone's perspective and that confidence and freedom to talk
about such important issues whenthey're in their 30s or 40s or
beyond, and to have that platform and that protection
(33:53):
around those voices and those artists to be so authentic was
something that was so special. About that, though, I also think
like, you know, not just for folks who identify as queer, but
to understand like that coming of age process and to relate,
you know, doesn't matter, you know, like girls, boys, whatever
it is, if you are being told that you what you genuinely feel
(34:15):
is wrong and essentially like being imprisoned for it, like
what that can do to your your sense of self and worth and, and
all of those things. And so seeing, you know, all of
these young characters go through that experience on
screen, I just think is hugely important, not just to those
who, like need to see themselvesreflected on screen, but for,
you know, the empathy of others to understand what it's like to
(34:38):
go through, move through the world feeling like what you're
doing is wrong, you know, just by being.
Beautiful, beautiful film. I'm curious if there is a a
character or a story that you'reparticularly proud of giving
voice to I. Mean there's so many it's I also
I want to be clear in that, you know when I come aboard a
(34:59):
project I I'm not necessarily like giving voice.
I'm helping helping the story come, you know off the page.
So it's it really, it is of course, the writer who's giving
voice. But, but I don't know.
I mean, I think I've been reallylike just tickled and thrilled
to give some more serious actorsa chance to play and have fun.
(35:23):
Whether it's like, you know, Paul Giamatti on 30 Rock, Martin
Sheen, you know, even Bryan Cranston, who had who'd been in
a very Dark World for a while like that.
That's so incredibly fun. Or, you know, I was actually
just talking to someone fresh off the boat and Hudson Yang,
and he was so young when when hewhen he got cast in that role.
(35:45):
But working with him to sort of get Eddie Huang's voice like
that, I felt that that choice tohave him like listen to to Eddie
speak and really get on his headlike that, I feel really proud
of because I feel like he reallyembodied him and, you know, got
to portray this, you know, iconic chef in his early years
(36:06):
and really kind of, you know, you've got his character.
Honestly, it's like, it's like asking to pick between your
children because like, I really am proud of a lot of the casting
that I've done. What a blessing.
Like what a what a good place tobe because you do have such a
great understanding of comedy and interpreting a writer's
(36:26):
voice and tone for that particular comedy and that
pacing virtually or in the room.Do you have any ways that you
like to work with actors to helpthem find, you know, maybe you
saw a great tape, but then you you hop on Zoom with them to
kind of just course correct it alittle bit.
Is there any working style that you have or anything that you
would share a little bit of yourprocess that might be beneficial
(36:48):
for actors? Or.
Understand. Yeah, no, I mean, I think and
just to sort of speak to what you're saying right now, like I
definitely want to see what an actor is bringing in before I
give any notes. You know, of course if they have
questions, please, but otherwiseI want to see what you're
bringing. I don't want to taint, taint it
like that's you're you're the artist, you're the one that's,
(37:09):
you know, interpreting the role.I don't, I don't want to
influence that. But certainly if like there's a
tape and it can be anything. I mean, often times it's, you
know, a specific note from the writer, director of the episode,
or it is a pacing thing. We just want to see a scene
(37:30):
played in a way that's going to be more of a balance to what
happens later. Maybe they haven't, you know,
they don't know exactly what's going on in the script.
So just informing them more and giving them, you know, a
different perspective. Sometimes it is just, you know,
making the performance a little more contained or rarer than
(37:51):
that is getting someone to really open up but.
The industry has continued to evolve under our feet.
What keeps you in love with the craft of Casting I?
Love collaborating and I really like there is something about
that like matchmaking aspect of things where like you, you are
introducing 2 artists who kind of like fall for each other.
(38:14):
Like it's so, so exciting and itreally is like a, a point of
pride to like point to somethingon the TV or, or, you know, film
screen and, and say, like, I hada real hand in shaping that.
Like I, you know, or I'm just, I'm so happy that that I was
able to help launch this story out into the world in this way.
(38:36):
And it's, it's really gratifyingto work with some of the same
collaborators again and again. And, you know, I, some of my, my
close friends are people that I've, I've worked with now
several times. And seeing an actor who I've
known for so many years, like get their big break, whether you
know, it's from me or, or from acolleague, like that's these
are, you know, real relationships that have endured
(38:58):
for so many decades. I do still love film and TV and
theater and still believe in thepower of storytelling.
And do. I mean, I was listening to an
episode of Smartlist, the podcast with Parker Posty and
the guys cracked me up. But they were talking about how
we all refer to ourselves as like storytellers and and and
(39:22):
there is something like really obnoxious about that.
But but truthfully like to be able to get to, to do this as
your job, like you pinch yourself.
It really it it's I, I don't take it for granted.
Yeah, well, you have a beautifulenthusiasm and a very authentic
joy just in talking about it. You, you light up and you can
(39:43):
tell you genuinely love it. And I think that that's what it
takes to stay with it year afteryear.
And, and each iteration that we're asked to be more flexible
or, or, you know, additional responsibilities, you have to
have that deep love for it and love for your community around
you. And it's very evident.
Sadly, our time is winding down.What is one thing you wish you
(40:05):
could go back and tell your younger self?
Oh. Be patient, work hard, you know,
follow, follow your heart, all the things you know.
Trust your instinct. Trust your gut because it's
(40:26):
serve you, serve you well through all yours.
Don't sweat the small stuff. This has been absolutely
amazing. Thank you so much for being.
Here. Thank you so much.
Yeah. Hi everyone, thanks for
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
(40:46):
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
events, I'm your host, Laurie Linda Bradley.
We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone Today and What's My Frame?
I'm Jimmy, veteran casting director Jessica Daniels.
With more than two decades of experience across film and
television, Jessica is known forher sharp eye and collaborative
approach to casting. She's helped shave ensembles for
projects like 30 Rock, Will Trent, The MIS, Education of
Cameron Post, and Dying for Sex,to name just a few.
(00:22):
As a former VP of Casting at Disney TV Studios, Jessica moves
seamlessly between studio and indie worlds with the track
record of champion emerging talent and making bold, story
driven choices. Jessica's vibrant heart for
creatives is evident in all thatshe does and I cannot wait to
share this special episode with you all.
Now let's get to the conversation.
(00:45):
Hey, Jessica, welcome to What's My Friend?
How you doing? I'm good.
Thanks so much for having me. We like to start out with
everyone's kind of creative origin story, what drew them to
the arts, what keeps them in love with this career.
So if you don't mind sharing a little bit of the twist and
turns that led you to a world and casting?
Sure. I don't really remember a time
(01:05):
when I didn't love the arts and entertainment and I was a little
ham, you know, starting as soon as I could talk.
I grew up in New York City and was just so fortunate to have,
you know, the theater in my backyard and, and really took
advantage of that. And I did, you know, a bunch of
like acting and writing all through grade school.
(01:29):
And then in college I acted in some of the productions, but I
also went backstage and directedand wrote something and kind of
got more interested in the behind the scenes.
And so when I left college, I had an intern or sorry, Well, I
was in college, I had an internship at Backstage
newspaper, but that was my firstjob when I got hired out of
college. So that's sort of where I cut my
(01:52):
teeth on like what the casting process was.
I just wasn't familiar with it. But because Backstage was
editing casting notices and I, you know, I interviewed a lot of
casting directors. That's how I found out what
casting was. And then how did you parlay that
into an actual career in casting?
So because I was interviewing all these people in the biz, I
(02:12):
think it was Jack Carlson who isnow a nurse and he is saving the
world. But he was a very beloved agent
for many years and he knew that Mikey Hilbrun was heading up the
pilot season casting for UPN, which is now CW.
So he introduced us and I becameher assistant for three months
(02:33):
because it was just a three month gig.
And then after that I got my first sort of like long term
job, which was for AV Kaufman, which was for four years.
And along the journey of becauseI mean, you've had a beautiful
career in TV, film streamers network, you've been able to and
I think that's one of the beautiful things about New York.
I feel like those casting directors have a little bit more
opportunity to jump into different sandboxes, but do you
(02:57):
have any mentors or pivotal opportunities that kind of just
really made? Yes, absolutely.
Jen McNamara was a huge mentor for me.
She hired me to, to help out as her associate on 30 Rock and
ended up, you know, promoting pro and I mean the casting
director and was just one of the, the most incredible work
(03:18):
experiences. And I just learned so much from
her. Nancy Clapper, who is an amazing
casting director in LA, She castRisky business and office space,
got me to join the union right when it started and was also
just a huge mentor. But I, I mean, I really learned
from, you know, everyone that I,I worked with both what I wanted
to emulate and what I, you know,didn't think was necessarily
(03:42):
healthy for my, my own life. Yeah.
You know what, but look at you being self aware to know this is
something I don't need to carry along with me.
These are things I will take andI think sometimes coming up we
take everything and, and I thinkyou lose your creative vision
and you lose what is healthy balance for you personally and.
(04:03):
Right. And I will, yeah, I will say I
feel really fortunate also like in the other direction.
I have brought up, you know, Erica Hart and Daniel Frankel
and Carly Famalon and just some like incredible casting
professionals that I, I mean, I'm not going to take credit
for, you know, giving them theirfirst jobs, but I think maybe I
had something to do. But no, they're, they are now,
(04:25):
you know, friends and and colleagues and and that's been
super rewarding too in that. Direction when you're at a place
in your career or anywhere in your life where you're at a
place where you can give a hand up to the next person coming up
the ladder, I think that's that's so beneficial and one of
the things that makes our industry so special.
And that's why I always love to talk about mentorship and
(04:45):
mentoring because I don't think we talk about it enough,
especially in the current iteration of Hollywood with the
disconnect of reaching out to your peers or who is doing what.
You would love to be in that those rooms and asking for a
coffee because a small ask and sometimes turn into really
meaningful connection. Totally.
And especially an independent casting because we really are
(05:08):
fairly siloed, you know, like especially now that we're.
I mean, I used to share office space with Julie Schubert and
Rory Bergman and at one point with Bolling Misha and and
Rosalie Joseph, we were just like all in the same, you know,
casting office space. So we could like run into each
other's offices. Henry Bergstein, Allison Estrin.
Yeah. So that those were, that was
really fun in, you know, in the before times, but now working
(05:33):
from our, you know, mostly from our homes, it can feel like
you're on an island. So having those connections I
think is just so important. Were there any projects coming
into your own as a casting director and what you were going
to become known for, like your creative vision?
Oh, I think probably unlike someof the first independence that I
(05:55):
cast on my own. So one was Nasty Baby, which was
Sebastian Silva's film that wentto Sundance with Tunde at a
Bimpe and and Kristen Wiig and Sebastian starred in it.
That was he's just such an art. Sebastian is such an artist in
every sense of the word. And just to get to play, like,
(06:17):
with him and be in his mind for,you know, so many months and,
like, just see who he, you know,he was attracted to what type of
talent, Like, translating what he had on the page into, you
know, what energy I had sensed from different actors.
Like, it was just purely creative and fun.
And yeah, it was just a blast. Yeah.
(06:40):
I think I'm white girl too, working with Elizabeth Wood, who
is incredibly talented filmmaker.
That one was a little trickier just because we had some more
stops and starts with the production and and having to
reraise financing and stuff. But but she too just had such a
strong vision and what caused meto get hooked on independent
(07:01):
film to be able to like work with these authors in creating
their worlds and not having like, you know, a ton of outside
influence. Like it really, it's really just
the director and the casting director in that process that,
you know, producer is creative and supportive.
And yeah, it's, I mean, we're not doing it for the money or
(07:22):
for our health, but for us, for our creative, you know, spirits.
It's really, it is really fulfilling to work on things and
then to have them, you know, go out into the world and actually
be meaningful to people. I hope that we are in a era of
like resurgence for indie film and and indie film storytellers
because, well, we'll talk about some some of those projects
(07:43):
later. But I'm curious, when you read a
script for an indie project, what about the script or the
creative that is that is bringing it to you get you
excited or makes you want to move to that next step of a
meeting or getting to know them further?
I mean, one litmus test is that like, I can't put the script
down and I have a lot of distractions.
(08:03):
So it's actually rare that I getthrough a script in one sitting.
But yeah, that's that's definitely one or yeah.
I mean, sometimes it's just it'sjust a character that I feel
like I haven't seen before or I'm working with a director now.
Her name is Carmen Angelica and she's been directing on The
(08:24):
Daily Show for many, many years,but she hasn't done, you know, a
a narrative feature yet. And she's just, she's incredibly
talented and like, so it's just it's really fun to be working on
her first feature, which I really respond to the script,
but also just the idea of her parlaying her comedic and like,
you know, TV chops into this. It's essentially like a a really
(08:45):
irreverent horror film is really, you know, it, it what?
A jump. It's exciting, it's such a jump,
but like it's clear as day in her mind.
It's on the page, it's in the lookbook, like it's, you know, I
I have no doubt that you know, she's going to be a force to be
reckoned with, But so it's fun to get in early.
I've had the fortune of doing, you know, with Rod a blank on on
(09:08):
40 year old version and and a bunch of other film makers that
I got to, you know, introduce tothe casting process.
Yeah. When you meet with a director
for the first time, is it prettyinstantaneous for you to know
like yes, this is a fit? Or do you fall in love with
their creative process and understand their like, nuances
and quirks throughout the process?
(09:30):
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's actually kind of it's, it's
really a lot like dating. So when when I meet a director
or I also don't know, like maybeI know that they want to work
with me more than other people, but I don't know for sure.
And usually directors are meeting with like a couple
casting directors before they they decide.
So it's sort of like a little bit of a dance, like, you know,
do you like me or, you know, do I?
(09:52):
When you don't think about that,it just goes really well.
And like you're so on the same page.
Then it's, you know, effortless and fun And and that certainly
happens. But sometimes it's just more
like, you know, feeling each other out.
And I have not very often, but Ihave had to leave a project
because like I wasn't on the same page with the director and
not even in like a contentious way, but like I'm thinking of
one specific instance where justlike, I just felt like I was
(10:16):
always defending like who I was,you know, suggesting and like
trying to get her to see my point of view.
And it's like we're just not, we're not clicking.
Like this is just not you. You will have someone that you
will work with better than than me.
And I will find a director that I, you know, speak the same
language with. So it's just we part ways.
Yeah, but again, like compliments to your
(10:38):
self-awareness because you having the self-awareness to
step away that project and creative voice gets told in the
way that they they see and yeah,you're safe in your mental
health in the process, right. Right.
It shouldn't, it shouldn't feel like such a heavy lift.
I mean, it's hard enough to get a a independent film made like
you want you want to be on the same team as.
(10:59):
Yeah, 100%. You want to be with people you
enjoy regarding of whether there's money or not money like
you want to explain who you're working with.
I'd love to jump into a couple of project specific questions,
including Diane for congratulations on your Emmy
nomination. Thank you so much.
How did the project come to you?Like I've, I've had a chance to
talk to Liz at a couple of like events and I mean, she's
(11:20):
fantastic, but how, how did the project?
Liz Meriwether, Yeah. Oh, Liz's she's the most unique,
talented I and I don't know how she does it with because she's
she's always littles. It's such a joy.
For it just such an unfiltered joy for this business.
So refreshing. Yeah, and I had worked with Liz
(11:40):
on The Dropout, but but I came to dying for sex through Jeanie
Bacharach, who is incredible casting director, obviously the
Bear and she originally worked on Miss Maisel.
She just did the last season of Beef.
So Jeanie and I had worked together.
It was like the tail end of the strike for me when I got dying
for sex. So it was like the first sort of
(12:02):
like union job that I took on after not working for probably
like 8 or 9 months. Like I had some, you know, any
films with waivers, but those were not, you know, keeping the
lights on necessarily. So it was just sort of like I
had lost my health insurance. So it had, you know, in terms of
that, it had been a real like lifesaver.
(12:23):
And I just love Jeannie. Like not only is she like
incredible casting driver, she'sjust like an awesome human
being. So that's how I, you know, was
hired on that job. And it was sort of a strange
experience for me. So I, I found out about it and
then I listened to the podcast and was just like a wreck.
(12:44):
And concurrently, really, unfortunately, one of my very
best friends in the world got a similar diagnosis to Molly in
the show. So going through that with her,
she is one of the strongest people I know and she's actually
doing really well right now. So, you know, knock on wood, she
will continue to fight, fight, fight until, you know, there's
(13:06):
some better treatments and and cure.
But it was sort of a strange experience being able to work on
this project with all of these incredible, mostly women
creators. It was hilarious and it was
heartbreaking. And I became very close also to
Nikki Boyer, who, you know, did the podcast with Molly and has
been such a like incredible friend and and rock for me.
(13:27):
So, yeah, so it was just like a really, really special project
in addition to being like this one that's getting, you know,
creative accolades and and that's, that's the icing of it
because I, yeah, it's just been one of the most meeting projects
I've ever worked on. Everyone seemed to be working at
their highest level, but also supported and given the freedom
(13:47):
to work at their highest level. And I think when you when you
have people that are so good at what they do and love the
project that they're working on,that's when something like so
special and so meaningful comes about.
So I'm curious after, you know, binging the podcast and reading
everything, what was those conversations like of getting
Molly's voice right, getting the, you know, Jenny's character
(14:09):
and, and the different voices inthat world?
Yeah, I mean, Michelle was attached.
I feel like Michelle's. I mean, I don't this isn't can't
be overstated. She's one of the best actresses
of our generation. You know, she's just
extraordinary. I think people don't give her
credit enough for how funny she is.
You know, like I remember Dick and, you know, she, she's funny.
So to let her be her, you know, brilliant, funny self, you know,
(14:32):
she was attached when, you know,when I came on board.
But so I wasn't part of any of those conversations, but it was
just you're like pinching yourself to be in that front
seat to like see things unfold. It was unbelievably like awesome
watching Michelle work. I mean, she's just and seeing
that performance come together because, you know, rightly for
(14:55):
her own processing, she was holding back in a little bit.
And you know, the when it was she was just reading with other
actresses to play Nikki. And so so then just to see,
yeah, how how she worked and, and the level of commitment that
she had to the character. So it was really, I mean, it's
she, she, she, she has the success she has for a reason.
(15:16):
I mean, yes. Incredibly, incredibly talented.
And Jenny camera chem tested with Michelle.
So she she read, which is, you know, unusual and a testament to
Jenny that at her level, you know, she's still fighting for
for roles, but she she just she was extraordinary.
I mean, that performance was there from the test.
(15:37):
You know, it was it was just so amazing.
And you're like sitting on this firecracker, like knowing that
it's going to go out in the world and be this incredible.
But having seen it before, anyone seen it, that's also like
another, you know, I'm not responsible for it, but another
pinched me moment. But I think what was really fun
for me because I was working with Jeannie and and really
responsible for like creating the world of New York, The story
(16:00):
didn't actually unfold in New York.
It unfolded in LA, even though Molly is originally from New
York and her mom still lives in New York.
But they they shot here because Michelle Williams lives here.
So lucky for me. But so there was a real sort of
conscious effort to make the world feel real and authentic
(16:21):
and and everyone, you know, should feel distinct.
And as we spoke about, Liz and also Kim Rosenstock are just
some of the funniest people. So like to be able to put really
funny people in front of them and like have them sort of fall
in love with these, you know, recurring guests or guests or Co
stars like that. It was just, it was so fun, you
know? When you're balancing emotional
(16:42):
elements, but also these comedy beats, there's this like dance
and I'm curious, how do you communicate in the in the
virtual world of auditions and self tapes?
How do you find it most beneficial to communicate?
What would be easier as a conversation but in the current
iteration of auditions? Like talking out the nuance of
(17:05):
tone and voice and comedic beats, but like levity and but
also the the gravity of the subject matter.
Sure. No, it's it's difficult and it
has always been difficult even like when things were live with
a project like this because it'sa limited series.
So it's not out in the world. I mean, we know Liz's voice, but
still like this is very different from the New Girl and
(17:26):
drop drop out and most of the guest actors are not getting
full scripts like they're just getting their sides.
So so that always is like somewhat of a challenge, but
also sort of understanding the larger scheme of the piece.
Like what is the scene when we're we're talking about, you
know, series regularly, that's adifferent that's a different
conversation. But when we're talking about
someone that's going to serve a purpose, you know, within the
(17:48):
story, one could argue Puppy played by Conrad, Rick Amora,
you know, wasn't necessarily playing it for like the pathos.
And, you know, he I think that we offered that to him, but so
he didn't read for that, but still like it was just he is an
actor who can really fully encapsulate so many different
(18:12):
emotions and and, you know, different levels.
It's just up. He's just so talented.
So like knowing that was going to mold very well with, you
know, what the writers were doing, what Shannon Murphy, our
director was doing, I think someof those those auditions.
So I did do a bunch of zooms. Like for every character, we
would do a couple hours of zooms.
So in terms of that, even thoughit's not ideal, you are giving
(18:35):
notes to the actors otherwise. I mean, I really think it is
trying to pull the right material.
Sometimes we'll even put like a couple of notes or like we'll
include part of a scene that they're not going to read so
that there's information on the character.
Sometimes there's there are notes in the actual like
appointment that goes out. And then we did do some
callbacks where it's like not necessarily with like the
(18:56):
director or the OR the producers, but like where
someone sent in a tape and it was good, but it didn't quite
get it. And so to get them there, we
would just call them back on Zoom.
I'm assuming since it was a limited series, you maybe had a
little bit more time versus say like Will Trent kind of
episodic. It's 100%, yeah.
That that trend was more. Like casting a movie.
And then in that sense, because we were able to get a real
(19:18):
running start, yeah. Have you seen a positive
evolution in self tapes to the point that you're not feeling
like you want to give the same note repeatedly?
I. Think some of the flexibility of
it is really beneficial for all of us, right?
Like people have lives, things to do, you know, they're not
always able to. I mean, my, my office, my for
(19:40):
five years was all the way downtown.
It was near every subway, but still was kind of a schlep.
I'm also able to see act, you know, a lot of actors who live
in LA and in other places, especially for Will Trent.
I appreciate that it gives us, you know, a lot more
flexibility. That said, it's such a human
pursuit acting and and I mean, even though, you know, it's
(20:01):
recorded, it's not necessarily, you know, live, but it's still
it's we're picking up on energies and it's harder to do
that on zoom. It just is, you know, So I wish
that there was like a, a better balance, but.
You know, we go with the IT was funny when you were talking
about my like background and like that I've, you know, been
in TV and film and streaming andit's like I didn't, I didn't
(20:23):
predict that this career was going to take that many turns.
Like when I when I started, it was like prime TV.
It was like Sopranos had just, you know, that was the like the
big show and there was so much excitement for like all these,
you know, incredible series thatwere, were just coming out the
wire. But there were definitely still
like movie actors that the big thing was NNI and TV meaning
(20:46):
like not interested in TV. If we would call the agents and
ask for someone's availability, they would just be like, no, I'm
a movie star and I not interested.
Oh, how the times have changed. You shared some beautiful advice
at the SAG after Foundation about headshots.
We'll link that in the show notes.
But if you wouldn't mind talkingabout headshots, I think there
(21:07):
is such a conversation of it. Is it really raw?
Is it to produce? Like what does casting want?
What are they drawn to? And I've always believed it so
much like in the eyes and it's it's the person.
It's not this like look that you're crying to curate.
But you said it really beautifully.
If you wouldn't mind kind of expanding on what your eye is
drawn to and headshots. Yeah, I'm really just drawn to
like an authenticity or like a spark of life.
(21:31):
I collect images and I feel likethat's the best way to
communicate with a photographer to say, like, I want something
that sort of feels this way. And it's the same thing as like
we were speaking about relationships with directors or
writers. Like you have to kind of gel
with the photographer, right? And, and hopefully they make you
feel really comfortable because again, as some of my own life
(21:54):
mirrors that of an actor's. I had my my headshots taken a
little over a year ago and therewere some of the best pictures
that I'd ever seen of myself because we're all so protocol
right? Of, of ourselves.
We look like in on all of that, but think I got it done, my
yellow belly and they made me feel so comfortable and like the
the pictures just showed that like how like in comfortable
(22:14):
with my skin and like, you know,all these sort of different.
They really captured sort of different expressions that I
had. And and so it really was it's
like past the vanity of like, doI look OK?
And it's like, this is me And and of course I do like how I
look. I like how I'm coming across
because it's me and, you know, this is accurate.
And so I think when I'm looking at actors photos too, like I, I
(22:37):
just of course it should, you know, especially for ATV where
there's still an emphasis on, you know, looking polished in a
certain way that I think, you know, we have certainly moved
away from just the, the cookie cutter look for the most part.
But yeah, you should look like yourself on your best day is I
think is the the thing that mostpeople sort of cite.
(22:58):
But also, yeah, if you can just really be kind of comfortable
and and show us who you are. And that's that's what we're
looking to see. And we don't want the person
then to like walk into the zoom or walk into the room and like
not be recognizable from their like glam shot.
And I don't trust a lot of glammy type things.
I really don't so. I'm curious if you have any
(23:20):
advice for actors on becoming better self directors of their
self tapes? Just even last week I was just
sort of like surprised there were some actors who sent me
like several takes of the same scene and like they really were
not that different. So if it's possible to just have
like more of a self-awareness about that, like you're going to
send 2 takes, like they really have to be significantly
(23:40):
different from each other and have a reason for being
different. But I don't know, I think maybe
in response to like your earlierquestion, actors have become a
lot more savvy about self tapingand sort of understanding where
the beats in the scene are. And, and really in almost every
case where we can, there's like some sort of, you know,
character arc even in their, youknow, their guest role.
(24:02):
And so showing the multiple sides of the character in the
two different scenes that we're giving you to tape understanding
the show. So like we just started Season 4
of Will Trent. Obviously it's very accessible
for people on Hulu to to know what the tone is because it's
procedural, but it's an unusual one.
Like it has a lot of irreverenceand and humor.
(24:23):
Literally my next question. Yeah.
Oh, really? Oh, there you go.
So just knowing the tone of it Ithink is real is like, that's
like half the battle. Yeah.
Now, I appreciate you sharing that.
And I know it is, it is a perfunctory question about the
craft. But at the same time, from
talking with friends both in theacting world and the casting
world, some actors are hearing chatter that is not beneficial
(24:47):
and they're using filters and they're using things on their
auditions. And it's it's causing this
trickle effect of it's a lot of energy and a lot of effort in
the wrong direction versus coming back to the the
foundation of it. And that's what I'm trying to.
No. And that's, that's super back.
Over here. Yeah, 'cause it also it ties
into like wanting to please, like what do they want, going to
(25:10):
do what they want versus like taking the material and doing
what you want and showing us what you think it is like.
I mean, I, I know again, I'm notthe only one to say this, but I,
I just think that that's the real shift in mentality that can
also make, you know, it can justchange an actor's point of view
(25:31):
and agency like to not always betrying to do what other people
want to see, you know? I completely agree.
All right, well, let's talk about Will Trent and past
season, Season 4 coming up. And also honorable invention to
Betty. Love that dog.
I mean, we love Betty. We love.
I mean, honestly, can we get a Emmy nom for Betty?
But anyway, I know, I digress. How does your process shift?
(25:54):
Because we talked about that, like with the limited series,
you have more of a film timeline.
How are you staying on top of that treadmill with the
episodic? I mean, it is hard because
sometimes we don't have a lot oftime to cast role.
I mean, we've had had instances where we only have like a couple
days because like a script changes or comes in late.
I will say, and I'm not just blowing smoke like my
(26:17):
showrunners, the writers on the show are so extraordinary and
they really keep us in the loop.And when they have a, you know,
a big character coming up, they try to give us as much time as
possible. And the characters that they
write are fun. So like, that's been really
amazing to like, just, I don't know, see actors just delight in
(26:37):
taping for some of these roles and just like really go the
extra mile, you know, because because they have, you know,
stuff to to, you know, cut theirteeth on because it's, you know,
there's real meat there. So I started on Season 3 with
Wiltren. So it takes a while to get to
know somebody's sensibility. And our show owners are Liz
(26:59):
Heldens and Dan Thompson. And this year, Corinne Rosenthal
is joining them. And yeah, you get into a rhythm.
And so you sort of know or you think you know who they're going
to respond to. And then, yeah, so it's just
fun. It is fun to also get the
episodes and read the roles. And then, you know, every, every
(27:19):
episode you get a new, new shot to, to surprise them and get
them excited about. I have a couple of friends that
are directors that have been guest directors on the show.
And I've heard such amazing things about how collaborative
you all are and just the conversations and the the space
in which you give room for theirvoice and their input as the
(27:41):
guest director. And I'm curious how you all have
started establishing those conversations when your guest
director is coming in and havingthat like kind of three-point
conversation between showrunners, guest director and
casting. Yeah, how you make your selects?
Yeah, I mean, I, I really creditthe team for their extraordinary
(28:01):
leadership. I have never received so many
calls from agents or actors likepost shooting, like just how
extraordinary the set is, how like appreciative everyone is.
I mean, we have a lot of actors who are now directing on the
show. Ramon has been such a phenomenal
director and he's directing 401 and Erica Christensen.
(28:22):
And yeah, we've worked. It's just, it's very
collaborative. And we have, you know, I can
only speak to the casting, but we have concept calls for every
episode where we're talking, youknow, about the entire episode
and what the, you know, the roles should feel like.
I work with an extraordinary casting team in the Southeast,
Matt Safik, and we, you know, are, are in close communication.
(28:46):
So I think it's so nice, like everyone just does their job.
Everyone does their job really well.
And we, we like each other genuinely and like, it's just a
good job. I mean, it's honestly like I
like knock everything cuz unfortunately that's not the,
the norm necessarily. But like, it's just awesome to
like work with people who are so, you know, talented and, and
(29:10):
hard working and just decent people.
And we're all just working on a show.
And you know what, I think it shows.
I do, you know, I think you can tell that that the actors and
the crew are tight and having a good time.
Yeah. I think especially as as busy as
we all are now and as much as we're, we're trying to consume
and and try to stay current and trying to be ahead of the curve
(29:32):
when it organically comes up, just in conversation of how
positive an experience was working, it means just that much
more nowadays. So shifting gears, I'd love to
talk about the MIS education of Cameron Post.
How did you become involved in casting with that project?
It had a beautiful festival life.
Oh yeah, thank you. I love, I love that film still.
(29:54):
So this one was funny because Desiree Akvan and I met during
film school. We went to different film
schools, both in New York, but she was a couple years younger
than me and Crude on some of my sets.
Crude did script super because we would all do all the jobs.
I definitely had to hold more than I I'm qualified to do.
(30:18):
Are you raising the roof? It was.
Like what? What's happening?
Oh, no, no, boom holding boom really built some biceps.
But so we had had that relationship and like, you know,
knew a lot of the same people. And so when she came to me, they
had been trying to get the financing together.
Couldn't, but I loved the scriptand sort of, you know,
(30:38):
immediately was excited to dive in.
And then very quickly after I signed on Chloë Grace Moretz, I
don't remember the name of the movie that she dropped out of,
but she just like quit all of the films that she was attached
to. So all the tentpole films and
was like, I don't want to work on anything that I don't believe
in. I really only want to work on
meaningful material. And we knew, you know, Chloe at
(31:00):
the time, I don't she didn't identify as queer, but she has
two brothers who do. And so it was a very important
topic for her to to address homophobia and especially, you
know, through such a beloved story and book.
And so she met with Desi and, and signed on and like, then we
(31:20):
were making a movie, which was so awesome.
And so that was also like a lot of different.
I had met with Sasha Lane, like just as, you know, I'm like a
general, like she'd come to my office to chat and just thought
she was the coolest. And then she actually came like
a couple months later and we were both like, oh, we've met
before. So it was like the universe is
trying to tell us to, you know, collaborate.
(31:41):
So. So that was a great one.
I knew Forrest, good luck from the Revenant.
I don't think we were doing Zoomat that point, but like, Skyped
with him, you know, because he was living I think, in New
Mexico. OK.
And then a lot, you know, we were auditions.
John Gallagher Junior was an author.
Jennifer Ely was an author. But yeah, it was just, it was a
really like, there weren't a lotof queer films being made at the
(32:05):
time, especially about like, theyounger, younger populations and
stuff. So like it, it really spoke to
so many people who ended up doing it and, and it was really,
really meaningful for them and for me and for, you know, for
all of us. I think Quinn Shepherd played an
important part in film. She's an actress and writer,
director. And I know that the the film was
(32:25):
like deeply meaningful to her. It was such extraordinary actors
who are like really compassionate human beings.
Owen Campbell broke my heart in that role.
I know that it was a really Seminole shooting experience for
him and just, I mean, still people.
I mean, this was what it was 10 years ago at least, right?
So, people. Still 2016.
Will still come up to me and andmention that film like how
(32:47):
important it was for them. And it's just so so awesome to
know that, you know, the thing that positively affected so many
people. It did feel like like what we
were doing, you know had an extra importance.
And, you know, and really makingsure that, you know, everyone,
(33:09):
everyone has a right to have their story be told.
And not to mention like everyonehas a right to exist and love
who they love and be who they authentically are without, you
know, government intervention. And so, so, yeah, so it was
really, it was really meaningfulin a lot of ways working on that
that. Movie.
I think the first time that I saw it, what was so special to
(33:31):
me was it was giving agency and a stage and a voice to a young
person's experience. Because so often we hear
someone's perspective and that confidence and freedom to talk
about such important issues whenthey're in their 30s or 40s or
beyond, and to have that platform and that protection
(33:53):
around those voices and those artists to be so authentic was
something that was so special. About that, though, I also think
like, you know, not just for folks who identify as queer, but
to understand like that coming of age process and to relate,
you know, doesn't matter, you know, like girls, boys, whatever
it is, if you are being told that you what you genuinely feel
(34:15):
is wrong and essentially like being imprisoned for it, like
what that can do to your your sense of self and worth and, and
all of those things. And so seeing, you know, all of
these young characters go through that experience on
screen, I just think is hugely important, not just to those
who, like need to see themselvesreflected on screen, but for,
you know, the empathy of others to understand what it's like to
(34:38):
go through, move through the world feeling like what you're
doing is wrong, you know, just by being.
Beautiful, beautiful film. I'm curious if there is a a
character or a story that you'reparticularly proud of giving
voice to I. Mean there's so many it's I also
I want to be clear in that, you know when I come aboard a
(34:59):
project I I'm not necessarily like giving voice.
I'm helping helping the story come, you know off the page.
So it's it really, it is of course, the writer who's giving
voice. But, but I don't know.
I mean, I think I've been reallylike just tickled and thrilled
to give some more serious actorsa chance to play and have fun.
(35:23):
Whether it's like, you know, Paul Giamatti on 30 Rock, Martin
Sheen, you know, even Bryan Cranston, who had who'd been in
a very Dark World for a while like that.
That's so incredibly fun. Or, you know, I was actually
just talking to someone fresh off the boat and Hudson Yang,
and he was so young when when hewhen he got cast in that role.
(35:45):
But working with him to sort of get Eddie Huang's voice like
that, I felt that that choice tohave him like listen to to Eddie
speak and really get on his headlike that, I feel really proud
of because I feel like he reallyembodied him and, you know, got
to portray this, you know, iconic chef in his early years
(36:06):
and really kind of, you know, you've got his character.
Honestly, it's like, it's like asking to pick between your
children because like, I really am proud of a lot of the casting
that I've done. What a blessing.
Like what a what a good place tobe because you do have such a
great understanding of comedy and interpreting a writer's
(36:26):
voice and tone for that particular comedy and that
pacing virtually or in the room.Do you have any ways that you
like to work with actors to helpthem find, you know, maybe you
saw a great tape, but then you you hop on Zoom with them to
kind of just course correct it alittle bit.
Is there any working style that you have or anything that you
would share a little bit of yourprocess that might be beneficial
(36:48):
for actors? Or.
Understand. Yeah, no, I mean, I think and
just to sort of speak to what you're saying right now, like I
definitely want to see what an actor is bringing in before I
give any notes. You know, of course if they have
questions, please, but otherwiseI want to see what you're
bringing. I don't want to taint, taint it
like that's you're you're the artist, you're the one that's,
(37:09):
you know, interpreting the role.I don't, I don't want to
influence that. But certainly if like there's a
tape and it can be anything. I mean, often times it's, you
know, a specific note from the writer, director of the episode,
or it is a pacing thing. We just want to see a scene
(37:30):
played in a way that's going to be more of a balance to what
happens later. Maybe they haven't, you know,
they don't know exactly what's going on in the script.
So just informing them more and giving them, you know, a
different perspective. Sometimes it is just, you know,
making the performance a little more contained or rarer than
(37:51):
that is getting someone to really open up but.
The industry has continued to evolve under our feet.
What keeps you in love with the craft of Casting I?
Love collaborating and I really like there is something about
that like matchmaking aspect of things where like you, you are
introducing 2 artists who kind of like fall for each other.
(38:14):
Like it's so, so exciting and itreally is like a, a point of
pride to like point to somethingon the TV or, or, you know, film
screen and, and say, like, I hada real hand in shaping that.
Like I, you know, or I'm just, I'm so happy that that I was
able to help launch this story out into the world in this way.
(38:36):
And it's, it's really gratifyingto work with some of the same
collaborators again and again. And, you know, I, some of my, my
close friends are people that I've, I've worked with now
several times. And seeing an actor who I've
known for so many years, like get their big break, whether you
know, it's from me or, or from acolleague, like that's these
are, you know, real relationships that have endured
(38:58):
for so many decades. I do still love film and TV and
theater and still believe in thepower of storytelling.
And do. I mean, I was listening to an
episode of Smartlist, the podcast with Parker Posty and
the guys cracked me up. But they were talking about how
we all refer to ourselves as like storytellers and and and
(39:22):
there is something like really obnoxious about that.
But but truthfully like to be able to get to, to do this as
your job, like you pinch yourself.
It really it it's I, I don't take it for granted.
Yeah, well, you have a beautifulenthusiasm and a very authentic
joy just in talking about it. You, you light up and you can
(39:43):
tell you genuinely love it. And I think that that's what it
takes to stay with it year afteryear.
And, and each iteration that we're asked to be more flexible
or, or, you know, additional responsibilities, you have to
have that deep love for it and love for your community around
you. And it's very evident.
Sadly, our time is winding down.What is one thing you wish you
(40:05):
could go back and tell your younger self?
Oh. Be patient, work hard, you know,
follow, follow your heart, all the things you know.
Trust your instinct. Trust your gut because it's
(40:26):
serve you, serve you well through all yours.
Don't sweat the small stuff. This has been absolutely
amazing. Thank you so much for being.
Here. Thank you so much.
Yeah. Hi everyone, thanks for
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
(40:46):
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
events, I'm your host, Laurie Linda Bradley.
We'll see you next Monday.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.