September 8, 2025 • 46 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by Writer & Executive Producer Richard Keith. Richard was born and raised in Charlotte, North Carolina, and grew up in the small mountain town of Beech Mountain, where he was a competitive alpine ski racer through high school before moving to New York to pursue a career in entertainment. He began as an actor, appearing in dozens of commercials and recurring on series such as NCIS and Grey’s Anatomy.
Richard later transitioned to writing and producing. His first feature, Fall, developed with Rob Reiner, never made it to the screen. He’s now developing it into a novel with his longtime writing partner, Erin Cardillo. The pair began collaborating in the mid-2010s, and their first pilot won the New York Television Festival’s comedy pilot competition, landing them a development deal at FOX. Shortly after, they partnered with Alloy Entertainment to create Significant Mother for CW Seed, which was picked up to series by The CW and premiered on August 3, 2015.
Since then, Cardillo & Keith have sold more than ten broadcast pilots to NBC, ABC, FOX, HBO Max, and The CW—including three in a single pilot season, prompting Deadline in 2019 to call them “the most prolific writers in broadcast television.” Their first hourlong pilot, Life Sentence, developed with Doozer Productions and Warner Bros. Television, went to series and premiered on The CW in 2018 (now streaming on Tubi). In 2019, the duo signed a two-year overall deal at Warner Bros., focusing on adaptations and IP for the studio, under their banner, In Good Company.
Beyond development, Cardillo & Keith served as Co-EPs on Fuller House and are currently Executive Producers on Netflix’s longest-running drama series, Virgin River, now entering its eighth season.
In features, the duo adapted Katherine Center’s bestselling novel The Bodyguard into a film that is set to star Jared Padalecki and they have two other features in development they're not allowed to talk about.
When not in the writers’ room, Keith lives in Mammoth Lakes, California, with his wife, two kids, two dogs, and a reasonable amount of cats. And he still ski races with the adult masters team—because growing up is overrated.
-
What's My Frame, hosted by Laura Linda Bradley
Join the WMF creative community now!
Instagram: @whatsmyframe
IMDb
What's My Frame? official site
What's My Frame? merch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi everyone, Today what's my frame?
I'm joining a writer and executive producer, Richard
Keith. This conversation is for the
creatives that think outside thebox, run with each and every
opportunity given, and believe in the power of creative
community. Today, Rich shares the pivotal
opportunities and mentors that shaped his early career as an
actor and writer. He shares insight into his
creative process with long time writing partner Aaron Cardillo.
(00:24):
They're currently executive producers on Netflix longest
running drama series Virgin River, now entering its eighth
season. We chat about challenging
yourself as a writer and navigating the business side of
the creative. Now let's get to the
conversation. Hey Richard, welcome to what's
my frame? How you doing I'm?
Good, thanks for having me. Thank you for coming on and
(00:46):
chatting about your creative process and experience.
We like to start every conversation kind of the same
way, with your origin story, theinfluential mentors and
influences, perhaps opportunities that shaped your
creative voice and vision comingup in the business.
Sure, I I'm originally from a small town in North Carolina
(01:06):
named Beech Mountain, recalled Beech Mountain.
I never know which to say. It's up in the mountains near
Boone. Grew up in Charlotte but then
moved there and was always superinterested in writing and
performing. My grandpa was an ad copywriter
for Ogilvy and Mather and Young and Rubicon.
So like, he did reach out and touch someone and be all you can
(01:30):
be. I think he might have even done
Diamonds or Forever. So I was, you know, interested
in it always. And weirdly, there was a show
that I'm sure most people remember called Dawson's Creek
that came on the air and was about a young guy who wanted to
be a writer. And it was filmed in North
Carolina. And it was the first time that
it occurred to me like, oh, thatcould be a job I could actually
(01:52):
have. Like, I'd always thought, like,
maybe I'll be a doctor or a lawyer or something.
I don't know, more academic I guess, but at that point I was
like, oh, I think I could do this.
And so I ended up graduating high school early after my
sophomore year and moving to NewYork to study acting.
I I ran an acting coach's studioin exchange for free classes.
(02:13):
Really nice guy. I don't know as a 17 year old if
I did the best job running his studio.
But yeah, I worked for him for acouple years and then was
auditioning a bit and actually got my, I was, I had two
vouchers to get my SAG card fromdoing extra work on a show
called Ed. And I was on set.
(02:34):
And a guy they had hired for a couple lines didn't, I guess,
live up to what they'd hoped in casting him.
And they swapped me. And I remember walking off set
and they were chatting about like, what they were going to
do. And I just remember thinking,
like, say something funny, say something clever, Remind them
that you're here. And I don't know what I said,
but I said something. And then I heard them behind me
(02:55):
say, Rich could do it. He's funny.
And next thing I know, I was in hair and makeup.
And that was my first role. It was like one line, I think.
I think I leaned forward and said bingo in the class.
That's the one time I've heard that that has worked for an
actor, so I'm glad. I was very, very lucky.
But you know, it's a right time,right place sort of thing.
Like I, I remember going to Appalachian State University and
(03:17):
seeing Spike Lee. He came to speak and his one big
piece of advice was like, just get on the set and stay there.
Nothing good happens when you'reat home.
I mean, I, that's not always true.
You do have to write somewhere. But so that was sort of the
beginning of my acting journey. And then from there I moved to
LAA little bit later, right? Sort of maybe year after
(03:38):
September 11th and was acting primarily and did a bunch of
like sitcoms and some hour dramas.
I tested for pilots but never got her series regular.
But I was recurring on a on Grey's Anatomy and a bunch of
other shows that you haven't heard of and started writing on
the side. I was doing sketch comedy and
improv comedy, and then I had anidea for a feature film and I
(04:04):
don't know why, but I think fromdoing a sketch show where I had
to write new sketches every week.
I had seen Mike Myers on Inside the Actor Studio and he said he
wrote Austin Powers in four days.
And I was like, OK, I'm just going to write this in four
days. I'm going to sit down if I'm
writing all these sketches. Like it doesn't have to be good.
I just have to get to the end ofthe script.
And I did, and it never ended upgetting made.
At one point Rob Reiner was going to direct it, but it's How
(04:27):
I Met my writing partner Aaron. She had written a film on her
own and we swapped scripts and gave each other notes and just
really liked each other's writing.
We met an acting class also in LAA Woman named Warner Loughlin.
And from there we were still sort of writing on our own and
acting, but the stuff we were writing together just got more
(04:49):
attention and and sort of kept going.
We met with a company called Alloy Entertainment who had an
idea for a show. The the idea they had was a
title, which was so I married your MILF and they were like, do
you want to pitch on it? And Aaron and I were like, I
don't know if that's our like, do we, I don't know, do we want
to pitch on it? And so we nobody's ever asked us
(05:11):
to pitch on anything. So we were like, you know what?
We have to pitch on it. And we went and sort of thought
of an idea and it became a series for CWC called
Significant Mother. It was 1/2 hour comedy and we so
it was originally for CW Seed, which was their website and they
gave us money for 66 minutes of content.
And we that was for the web. And we were like, well we don't
(05:33):
want to do web content long term.
So we wrote 322 minute episodes for television that could be
broken into 11 minute webisodes if need be.
Because the idea was that CW Seed was an incubator for
comedies for the network. And we sort of turned it in and
we're like, we feel like this isATV show, just put it on TV, not
(05:56):
knowing how impossible that was because we were so new to
everything. But they did.
And so that those 3 episodes became a nine episode series.
It was a summer series starring Josh Zuckerman and Nathaniel
Buzolik and Krista Allen and Johnny Silverman and JLE, and it
(06:18):
was super fun. It was like community.
It was very sort of weird. It was about a guy who finds out
that his best friend isn't just sleeping with his mom, but they
have feelings for each other. And so they're roommates and
they have to deal with the logistics of that.
They also work together. He owns a restaurant and his
buddy's a bartender there. So just, you know, kind of a
(06:39):
standard situation comedy. But it was so much fun to work
on. Aaron and I wrote pretty much
the whole thing ourselves. We hired 2 of the writers who
were great, but we were new at writing and we didn't know how
to like show, run the them. So we ended up, they wrote great
drafts, but we ended up having to rewrite a lot of stuff also
because we were the only ones onthe whole time.
(06:59):
So it was just kind of like a boot camp for making ATV show.
And that was pretty much our entry into it.
And then we were told we were getting picked up for a second
season off the record and then we never did.
And then funny enough, five years later, right before COVID,
Mark Pedowitz, who ran The CW, wanted to pick it up again five
(07:22):
years later. And we came up with a whole
pitch for how to do it five years later.
And then COVID unfortunately killed it.
But it was like, it was like this tiny bit away from
happening. I was doing a hand gesture, but
I realized this is audio. It was like about to happen.
And then it didn't. And then in between that we did
a show called Life Sentence for The CW, also with Lucy Hale that
(07:43):
we also developed originally as 1/2 hour was 1/2 hour cable
dramedy. Then we pitched it around town
with Bill Lawrence as 1/2 hour single Cam for network except to
Free Form and CW where we pitched it as an hour dramedy
and it didn't sell on network, but it did sell to Free Form and
CW. And so we ended up doing it at
CW. And then by that point Aaron and
(08:05):
I were just sort of writing everything together and pretty
much have sense. We worked on a show called
Fuller House for a season and wehad an overall deal at Warner
Brothers. We've sold like 12 network
pilots, 10 or 12 that have nevergotten made.
So I have quite a library of unspoken dialogue.
And then we got, we jumped onto Virgin River three years ago for
(08:30):
season 5. And that's where we are as of
today. And I don't know if I answered
all the components of your question, but that's the origin
story short of starting at conception or birth and I don't
know what happens tomorrow so. No one does.
I don't think I have to commend you because I knew nothing about
the show the first time I watched it.
Like years ago when it came out.First time watching that episode
(08:51):
I immediately saw friends from college.
Like those two male characters were so defined.
You watched our show, You're theone.
Yes, I'm the one, I'm the one. Yes, I have been an Iding.
I'm the one. But no, like I, it was quirky,
but it was like, but you could, I mean, also, maybe it's because
(09:14):
when I was like reading in your bio about Boone, I grew up in
Southwest Virginia. Like I've been to Boone.
Like I like, I think there is like this like familiarity
because like I saw friends from like UNC Chapel Hill.
I saw people from tech in Radford.
Like I, I heard there was something about it that was very
familiar and very funny to me. But I'm curious, was it just
(09:36):
that young exuberance that you chose to like they were offering
an 11 minute and you're like, well, actually we could.
We could do this. I mean, it could still work in
this, but we could, yeah. I mean, what gave you the
confidence or the idea to do that?
Yeah, it was a combination of being too naive to know that
that was probably impossible, which actually just saw an
(09:58):
interview with Akiva Goldsman, who said he acts like every film
he comes on to is being made because they get made.
If you act like that, if you actlike it's development.
And so, you know, I think we just were that way.
And I will say there have been times I think where we haven't
been and maybe 10 or 12 times where it didn't happen.
But even with life sentence, I think I was always like, yeah,
(10:19):
this is going to get made. Bill Lawrence is producing it
and Lucy Hale's going to be in and house.
It's not going to be a show, butthat one.
Also, we had a great producing partner at Alloy named Trip Reed
who did a lot of their basicallyall of their digital stuff and
he thought it was a good idea aswell.
And so, you know, he encouraged us to go down that path and it
(10:42):
still did cut. Like if you watch the episodes
in the middle of each episode for the first three, there is
kind of like the mid episode actbreak has kind of a bigger
cliffhanger. And weirdly I met Tripp
auditioning for a show that I can't remember the name of.
It was a web series for Alloy that Sheree Appleby was the lead
of, and I tested for it. I think it was to be her
(11:05):
boyfriend or something. But the other two guys were
like, just annoyingly handsome. And I was like, well, I guess
I'm going to be the funny guy. So I improvised a bit in the in
the audition. Again, I was writing at that
point, so I felt like I improvised in places that didn't
change the meaning of the scene.But one of the producers who
wasn't Trip was like, you do realize this isn't your show?
(11:28):
And I was like, 100%, but it is my audition.
And so I'm not expecting this tobe on TV, but I think this is my
strong suit. So I'm I'm totally happy to do
it the other way. And I did.
And I didn't get it, but Trip reached out to my manager and
was like, does Rich write? I feel like he's funny, which I
know that sounds weird because that's happened twice, but I'm
also not that funny because I did a commercial with Tony
(11:51):
Cavallaro and Jim Gaffigan for for Corona or something.
And this was long before Rich's Gemstones and they there was 2
spots and there's three guys. It was Tony, me and another guy
whose name I don't remember. And for the second spot they
pulled me because they didn't think I was funny.
I've had it work both ways wherethey're like Rich is funny,
(12:14):
let's give him a job and Rich isn't that funny, let's not give
him a job. So.
So I would love to talk about your writing partner, you and
Aaron, how do you all divvy up responsibilities?
Because you mentioned about likethe writers room, but that first
writers room, but how like when you're pitching, when you're,
we're picking which ideas to pursue and really focus on, how
(12:35):
do you all decide which direction to go and who gets
what responsibilities? It really depends.
If we are, it depends on how many things we're doing at the
same time. We're always doing a couple
things because A there's two of us so we have the brain space to
do it and B, we split a salary so having double the amount of
(12:57):
jobs is a good thing if we can find them.
Typically in terms of ideas these days, because we love
Virgin River and aren't really like trying to leave, it's if
someone brings us an idea, like most of the things we've written
recently, our ideas people have brought to us.
We have a Christmas movie in Netflix that I think is going to
shoot this year that was based on a book that the producers
(13:20):
brought to us 'cause they produced Aaron's solo feature.
Isn't it romantic? We still talk about them, but
generally if there's like a coolteam that brings us stuff, we're
inclined to say yes. And then if it's our own stuff,
it's been a while, but usually we just talk about it.
You know, if we have a few ideas, we'll talk about them and
(13:42):
see what interests us. And then we tend to try to have
like 3 to 5 ideas that we have, you know, a couple paragraphs
on. And then if we have general
meetings with producers or studios, we'll kind of bring
them up and then sort of see what has traction.
So we haven't really specked anything or not specked much in
a while. So that's usually how we land on
(14:03):
an idea in terms of divvying up the writing.
We break all the story together.We do a really detailed outline
together, especially 'cause there's two of us, we need to be
on the same page with what the story's gonna be.
And also, from now, working in TV, it's just you do it anyway.
And we've learned the hard way that if you don't, you end up
doing more, way more work later.To avoid a little bit of work
ahead. Typically I'll write the first
(14:26):
draft. Not always though, but usually
I'll write the first draft and as I'm writing it, I'll send
Aaron pages like each day. And then so because I'm a really
big morning person and she's more of an evening person, so
I'll write in the morning and then she'll go through it in the
evening and then edit it. And then if she wants to add
anything to it or you know, add another scene or whatever like
(14:47):
she might. So she'll do editing and more
writing in the afternoon. And then we sort of go through
it that way. And then after we have a draft
put together, usually it dependson time.
Usually we'll go back through itand just either give one more
round of notes to ourselves or if it's like a very tonally
specific thing, we'll read it out loud or, you know, act it
(15:09):
out a little bit just to see howit flows.
Certain projects, that's not necessary, Like Virgin River, it
isn't as necessary because it's so grounded.
There's not like a musicality tothe way people speak.
It's not like Gilmore Girls or Shonda where it's got to sound a
certain way. It needs to feel really organic
and true to the people who are speaking the words.
And I think we've been doing it a few years now.
(15:32):
So we generally know also in TV,it's going to get rewritten a
bunch anyway. So you want the first draft to
be good, but you're not, you know, super, super precious.
Yeah. And then we are working on a
novel. That one, I wrote a first draft
of it because it was. It's based on the feature that I
wrote all those years ago, the first one.
(15:53):
And then Aaron edited and gave notes that that's the only thing
that I've done the majority of the writing on.
But I think it's just how it happened.
We were also working on other stuff and Aaron was sort of
spearheading those things. But yeah, it's, it's sort of has
evolved over time. I don't think there's any right
way. Some writing partners sitting
right together. I, I think we would go nuts, not
(16:16):
because we don't get along, but it's just very slow.
And some of the fun of writing is acting like you're, you're
performing as you're writing these things down in your head.
And so when you, for me and for her, I think at least if you get
to the point where you're sitting there and being like,
what's next, what's next, what'snext?
You're not really sort of seeingwhat comes out and then editing
(16:36):
it later. You're editing it as you're
writing it, which for us just doesn't yield the best results
and takes the fun out of the most fun part of the process.
Which you've got to, you've got to maintain all of the fun that
you can have in this business now.
Yeah, I mean, I'm very lucky. I love writing.
It's it's a lot of work. So is acting, But writing in
(16:57):
particular is work I really love.
It's really it really. It's challenging, but it's
fulfilling. And I, as an actor, my range was
limited. I could play pretty much
someone's nondescript boyfriend or like nondescript Dr. or I was
just nondescript. Whereas when you're writing, you
know, you get to sort of play a bunch of characters.
(17:19):
Yeah, yeah, No, I, I that's one reason I love writing.
It's it's, it's very cathartic, but it is also a beautiful
exercise for your imagination. And I think it improves and
recharges other outlets as well.For sure.
You've worked with a number of networks and studios in your
career and had really great success selling shows like you
(17:39):
mentioned. How do you start establishing a
creative dialogue and a partnership with each new like
producing partner, each studio or network?
How do you start establishing that groundworking foundation?
I mean, I think I think you justearlier in my career, I think I
(17:59):
was also younger. I think I always, you know, if
you met with producers or agentsor any anybody in a position of
power, I think A, you were usually I was younger than them,
but B, you often are like, oh, this person is like the
gatekeeper to my career. And I think the more you start
to view them as partners and collaborators.
Even when people give notes, like a lot of writers, I think
(18:21):
tend to seize up at notes and not want to take them or think
somebody's trying to change their, their, their masterpiece
into something that it's not meant to be.
But I think Aaron and I, one of the reasons I think we're good
partners is we've always approached it that they're
collaborating too. Like they may not be the writers
on it, but everybody wants it tobe good.
Nobody's nobody that's involved with the project is like, you
(18:42):
know, what I really want to do is like light this on fire and
burn it to the ground. So I think the more you, you
know, the more you view them as partners and also human beings
that you can talk to about stuffthat isn't work related.
Like Aaron and I had a general meeting the other day with
someone and they both went through divorces recently.
And about half our meeting they were just talking about their
(19:03):
divorces, which led us into talking about an idea that we
have based on Aaron's divorce. And so I think that the more you
show them your humanity and thatyou're more than just a writer,
the more they remember you, the more they're inclined to work
with you. Like I think everybody loves
this work, but people don't wantto just talk about work.
So when you can establish a relationship that's based on
(19:24):
some form of a friendship, however, you know, small, it's
helpful. And I think we also just got
lucky coming out of significant mother, the same producers who
produces Isn't it romantic, GinaMatthews and Grant Scarbo, who
are also brought us on to do this Netflix Christmas film.
They, we met with them and had an idea for a, like a, a murder
(19:51):
mystery set at a wedding, but like a comedic 1.
And they helped us shape it. And we sold that to CW.
It was the first time we'd sold a show like in the traditional
pitching process. And so we just really hit it off
with them. And we ended up developing it
with Warner Brothers with a woman named Clancy who now sort
of runs tell, you know, television development there.
(20:13):
And we just hit it off with her too.
And so that show didn't go. And then afterwards she just was
like, I really want to develop something else with you guys.
And so they, we, we developed something else with them and got
on Fuller House because we've never been in a writer's room
that wasn't ours. And through that process, we
just got really close with them.So that life sentence came out
(20:33):
of that deal. And then, yeah, we were at
Warner Brothers for a long time before we moved other places.
But even at Warner Brothers, we were selling to other networks.
And in back in the day, you pitched in person.
So you did feel like you met these people and you got to know
them. The zoom of it all definitely
makes it feel once or twice removed.
(20:55):
But yeah, I think it's just being a, a congenial, affable
person and, and also wanting to hear about them and what they do
and who they are. And I think that's that's what
you build relationships on is not just the idea you're talking
about or the show you're trying to sell, but like getting to
know each other's people. All right, that was a very long
winded answer for what ended up being 2 sentences.
(21:15):
No, it was really, really good. And you speak in the way that
like my mind works and yes, it'sa winding Rd. but like
ultimately all the all the stopson the road trip are are checked
and like, that's how my mind processes.
So I'm with you. You're good.
It's a mixture of chaos and attention deficit disorder for
me. Say you touched on, you know,
(21:37):
going from in person to Zoom, you know, that's that's one of
the huge kind of sticking pointsof our business.
Regardless of what you do of that, that disconnect now, how
do you all still find connectivity?
And is it like the way that you research and prepare?
Is it trying to go from a Zoom to like building an in person
(21:59):
like a coffee or a lunch? How, how do you navigate that
now for yourself with building the relationships?
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's funny. We, our current agent, Olivia
Blaustein, we ended up switchingto her during COVID because our
agent left UTA to become a manager.
And so we had gotten to know Olivia because we tried to
(22:20):
option a few books that she wrapped.
And we just were like, Oh my gosh, we have the same taste.
And so when we were looking, I reached out to her and yeah, we
just ended up hitting it off with her.
But we worked together for, because of COVID for like over a
year before we ever met in person.
So it was definitely, you know, it's a new space.
I think you can make connectionsover Zoom.
(22:44):
Auditioning is definitely harder.
I think, you know, I haven't auditioned much on Zoom, but
I've watched a lot of auditions on Zoom.
Pitching can be easier and harder.
The easier part is that you haveit right in front of your face
on your computer screen. And if you used to be an actor
and auditioned for hosting gigs that you have a teleprompter
(23:04):
that you're in control of. And it's lovely, but you miss
that. Like everybody's muted and you
used to sit in a room and peoplewould laugh and, you know,
you'd, you'd improvise off of what they were saying or they
would jump in and ask a questionin the middle of the pitch,
which was part of, I think how you develop a relationship also
is that dialogue. So it's more challenging, but I
think you just have to put in the time and, and, you know, the
(23:29):
5 minutes before you're talking about whatever you're talking
about that day, check in with them and see what they're up to
and how their weekend was. Yeah, and, and I do think it's a
blessing and it's a curse and a blessing.
Like for me, the ability Virgin River, we are in the room Monday
through Thursday and then Fridays are virtual.
So I can live in Mammoth Lakes and work in Los Angeles.
(23:49):
I drive back and forth the 20 or24 weeks we're in the room.
I drive down on Sunday nights, stay in LA until Thursday and
after work at 5, drive 5 hours back to Mammoth for the weekend.
And so it, you know, the work life balance that it affords is
awesome. And it's, I think made me a
better writer and a better father and just a happier human
(24:10):
being. That said, trying to do a
writer's room entirely on Zoom, I think it's very tricky.
Just, you know, the just the, the flow of it and there there
are issues, especially in the brainstorming stage.
So yeah, I think it's it's like anything, it's been a mixed bag.
Yeah, now Virgin River is one ofmy favorite shows.
(24:30):
I've been with it from the beginning.
How did that project come about for you and Aaron?
We had come out of, we were lucky to have an overall deal at
Warner Brothers during COVID, which was sort of amazing
because we had a, for the first time in our life, we had a
weekly paycheck when people weren't getting them.
(24:51):
So I mean, we still work the whole time.
We sold 4 pilots with Warner Brothers during COVID that we
developed. So it wasn't like we were just
taking their money and gardening, although I did do a
lot of gardening, but we came out of that, we developed a
couple things that didn't go andwe both needed steady income and
(25:12):
we just missed working on stuff that was getting made like
afterlife sentence. I think, like I said, we sold 10
or 12 things that didn't get made and we were like, we just
want to work on something and like be on set again.
And CCR writing through to the finish line.
And Olivia brought up Virgin River and the the creator and
(25:33):
original showrunner was leaving and a new showrunner was coming
on named Patrick Sean Smith, who's still the showrunner.
And so they asked if we'd want to meet with him about being his
number 2, and we were excited. Ben Hollingsworth, who plays
Brady, is a friend of mine and my wife is good friends with his
wife. So we'd watched all of it
already anyway. And so before the meeting, we
(25:57):
literally, I reached out to Ben Aaron's friends with Zibby from
their day, her days as an actress.
So we had Ben and Zibby call Sean.
Sean had developed at Warner Brothers recently.
He did a show called Heartstrings, the Dolly Parton
show. So we called all the executives
we knew at Warner Brothers and also had them call him just to
make sure before he met us, thathe knew that he really should
not hear us because it's those jobs are very tricky to get.
(26:20):
And so our. Yeah.
So Olivia brought it to us and then we really tried our best to
to sort of grease the wheels as much as possible.
And then we met Sean and he's just like the most wonderful
guy. And we really hit it off.
So it was, it was just, I think you know, a, a confluence of a
good agent and and luck. That's right.
(26:43):
And I think it is so important to have your very long reach of
your community of who will. It's not who knows you, it's who
knows you and likes you in this business.
I am a firm believer. And when you can have those
people that will reach out on your behalf and put in a good
word of these are good people that do good work, it it's so,
(27:04):
so valuable. Well, you obviously you answered
my next question. You you were familiar with the
show and we're already watching.How from a professional
standpoint, did you dive into these characters of
understanding what was established and then how you
were going to create a really challenge yourself and the
journey you wanted to take the audience on now giving life and
(27:25):
words to these characters. Yeah.
I mean, it was definitely tricky.
I mean, I think Sean probably carried the most stress for that
because as the showrunner, if wedidn't stay true to the
original, it was going to be on him more than anyone else.
So we were all concerned about it and we talked about it a lot.
(27:47):
I think he was very concerned, rightfully so.
It was one of those things whereI think for us as writers, they
went really far with some of thestorylines in Season 4.
And we did find that previously there were a lot of cliffhangers
that just kind of got swept under the rug.
(28:08):
That was sort of the format of the show.
It was like preachers laying in a pool of his own blood.
And then at the beginning of thenext season, it was like, oh, he
cut himself making fish. So we challenged ourselves.
That was our first challenge that we gave ourselves was to
pay off or continue through every single storyline from
where it left off in Season 4. And doing that, I think just
(28:30):
immediately ties you into the world and the characters.
I feel like for Aaron and I, ourvoice just happened to kind of
line up with this show, which was very lucky.
I I don't know that it happened that easily for everyone, but I
I don't know if it was watching the show or if it's just the
(28:51):
sort of show we would write on our own anyway.
But even then, as you know, as scripts come in and stuff, we
all, Sean, Aaron and I read all the drafts and go through and
make sure it sounds like the right voice.
And the actors on the show also have been with the show for so
long and really know these characters.
And if a line or something doesn't feel like something they
(29:11):
would say, they have no problem telling you.
You know, everybody's very invested.
Everybody loves the show and is very grateful for being on a
show that is so wide reaching ina time where many shows that are
wonderful struggle to find an audience because there's so many
shows. So I don't think anyone takes it
(29:31):
for granted how lucky we are to to be a part of something as
special as this show. And so it's a many faceted
approach to making sure that theshow sort of stays what it was,
but hopefully evolves and grows and, and, and provides new
exciting things for the audience.
Our first season was season 5, which was the wildfires and
(29:54):
miscarriage. We wrote the miscarriage
episode. So we wrote the episode.
Our first scene on set was Alex in the bathroom discovering she
had miscarried the baby. And then the second scene was
her ultrasounding herself and seeing that her pregnancy had
terminated. And she was so heartbreaking in
(30:15):
that scene. But I remember turning to Aaron
and being like, Oh my, this is unbelievable.
Like we worked on 1/2 hour comedy where a guy sat down on a
couch and found a dildo that hismom and best friend had used and
threw it across the room. And now we're doing this like
beautiful heart wrenching scene.Yeah.
(30:37):
I mean, it was very, it was one of those moments so where you're
like, you never know where your career is going to take you.
And so it was, it was a very, itwas a very cool first moment on
set, though. I'm not sure why I started
talking about the story now because I got so lost as I was
telling it. I was like, I don't know if I
should tell the story, but I did.
When you bring that up of like, I have such a visual of like
(30:57):
where she was on the set and like with the bed behind her and
doing doing the ultrasound to herself and then having to like
swallow that to then like the way that you all right and the
way that the actor just so vibrantly has all of those
shades of like strength, but vulnerability.
And it should. I mean, Alex is one of the most
(31:20):
dynamic actors. I think that's working today.
She's just. So talented.
She's so talented, she's so emotionally available and
honest. And you know, the thing she
doesn't get to show on the show very much 'cause it's not Mel
is. She's very funny.
And Mel isn't necessarily funny.She's a little more gritty and
earnest and, and she has momentsof it, but she's Alex is, yeah.
(31:44):
She's very, very, like, disarmingly funny.
Yeah. When you're adding recurring and
pivotal characters, because that's something that is really
interesting, that like these characters will join into the
Virgin River community and it makes perfect sense.
They fit in. How do you all have
conversations with your creativeteam, with casting directors?
(32:04):
If like what you're looking for,like the qualities, the arc that
this character is going to take through this season or beyond,
how do you have those conversations and how do you
feel are most effective to have those conversations?
When we're sort of blue skying the season at the beginning of
the year, we usually as we land on storylines, we'll know like,
(32:29):
oh, there needs to be a character in this that fulfills
this. I'm trying to think, because
next season hasn't come out yet,so I can't use that example.
Oh, in the end of Season 6, the character of Marley who shows up
and says, I want you to have my baby, we knew ahead of time that
(32:50):
she was going to be a recurring character.
We knew that she was going to bea patient of Mel's.
We didn't necessarily know that's where that was going to
end. We talked about a a bunch of
options and, you know, I think where it goes will be
interesting. But, you know, we didn't
necessarily know that was going to be her end point, but we sort
(33:14):
of knew what type of person we wanted.
And it really depends. I mean, we we talked to our
casting director Tiffany a lot about who we think this person
is. But a lot of the times it
evolves through who comes in, who reads for the roles.
(33:34):
There's a character that appearsat the end of Season 6, Doctor
Hayes, who is sort of coming after Doc's medical license.
It seems like at the end of the season that was written as a
much older character. And then as we saw actors with,
there were a lot of great actors, but trying to go toe to
toe with Tim Mathison as a tall order.
And Kai Erickson, who's playing the role came in and was just so
(33:59):
awesome. And we were like, he's he's
younger and so he can go toe to toe with him in a different way.
He's not trying to like out seniority him.
He's just a different sort of guy altogether.
So they can butt heads. So sometimes we get who we want,
and sometimes who we want wasn'tthe right person anyway.
And so as the character evolves it through casting, then we have
(34:22):
we, you know, we'll adjust the writing to match the person that
we cast. And ironically, Kai, I've known
for like 20 years. He and I did sketch comedy
together at Acme Comedy Theater,like in the early 2000s.
And I didn't even know he was auditioning.
His tape had just come in and I,I don't know if I had seen it
for, I think somebody else saw it and was like, this guy is
(34:43):
great. And then I watched it was like,
yes, he is great and I also knowhim.
He's a great guy. But then you know, that happens
all the time. I think you have to be flexible
because if you don't write to the strengths of the person you
cast, you're writing yourself out of an interesting character.
Yeah, well, we talked about, just touched on it about, you
know, virtual editions and self tapes and things like that.
(35:06):
What stands out to you positive?Like when you know these
characters, when you have written these words, what stands
out to and makes it more 3 or 4 dimensional for you as a viewer
when you're watching? You mean in watching an audition
tape or in auditions? Gosh, that's such a complex
question because it's so different for every role.
(35:28):
I do think in the virtual audition space, you really have
to come in, like, don't make a crazy choice off the top because
that will be jarring. But you really have to be in the
moment and have had a strong present prior moment and really
be connected to the scene right off the top.
Because people's attention span on tape is just not the same as
(35:51):
in the room. That said, I think even in the
room you do tend to know. I wish I'd known this when I was
an actor. You know, 10 or 15 seconds in,
if the person could be the person, they may not absolutely
be the person, but you know, pretty quickly if they're in the
running but in the room, I thinkthere's more room for them to
surprise you at the end 'cause you're sitting there on a tape.
(36:15):
I think it's very easy to want to move on or check out or, you
know, and, and the quality of being in the room of like coming
in and being affable and being flexible and being a great
collaborator. That's sort of gone.
When you send in a tape, we assume it's the best you can do.
Also, it is edited. There have definitely been times
(36:37):
we've cast people off tape and it was the best they could do
and then they weren't as flexible and and adept at the
craft of acting on set because they had so many opportunities
to make that tape in a low, in amuch more low pressure setting
than being on set. So as much as people bemoan the
pressure of auditions not being like being on set, being on set
(36:59):
for a guest spot on a big show is really, it should be nerve
wracking. It's a lot of responsibility.
So the nerves of the audition and your ability to manage them
do show, I think some of your ability to show up on set and do
the same thing. So I think that does
unfortunately get lost in the inthe zoom shuffle.
Yeah. Do you all normally have for
(37:21):
Virgin River Ring? And in the current iteration of
auditions, do you all normally have virtual callbacks or live
producer sessions or anything inLA or how are you all doing
that? Almost always virtual because
primarily we cast actors from Canada.
They usually, they usually have to be UBCP, which is the
subdivision of ACTRA that's in British Columbia.
(37:44):
And so either we're not there cuz we're in California or we're
not there cuz we're on set. So almost, almost exclusively on
tape. OK, so then let's just keep
going down that that journey about auditions and and when you
are watching, Kim reads. And this can be for Virgin River
or any project that you can or cannot talk about by like title
(38:06):
or something. But what are you looking for in
those Kim reads? Because we haven't talked about
that very much on the podcast. And I think, I think there's a
lot of unspoken boxes that are looking to be checked in those
opportunities. I mean, I I assume when you say
Kim reads, you're speaking more for two characters that are
(38:27):
romantically involved chemistry than two people butting heads
or. I mean, it can be that, but I
honestly, I think when you have someone that is coming in to
challenge a a senior character on a project, I think there's an
expansion beyond just a romanticchem read.
Yes, there can be. I have not seen those sort of
chem reads. I'm sure they do happen on
(38:49):
things. The usually it's, you know, for
a new love interest, especially if it's on something like Virgin
River where your characters are already established.
You're trying to see who will play off of 1 of them.
But it's really, I think it's hard to put it into words.
What I would say is if you haven't watched the first season
(39:09):
of 1923, watch it and the the love story that takes place in
Africa, the way those two actorslook at each other is not
something you can write. And if that's the story you were
trying to tell, you can write all the great lines of dialogue
in the world and they won't sellit or you cast the two right
(39:33):
people and you can write really marginal lines of dialogue and
it jumps off the page. So, you know, I think it, it's
just, it's that, it's that sparkof it's the same spark.
I think when you're dating someone, it's, there's not like
an an answer to it, but you haveto really connect with that
person. And I think you have to push
their buttons a little and you have to get under their skin the
(39:54):
way people that have chemistry do.
You know, I think even in a lovestory, like one of my favorites
is The Notebook and Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling's
chemistry. And that is like just
unbelievable. But again, it's because they
push each other and they they they challenge each other.
(40:14):
They have senses of humor. But in 1923 specifically, they
just look like they want to eat each other.
Like they just. It's all in the eyes.
It's insane. It's the most chemistry I've
ever seen on anything ever. I think it was just one of my
favorite it we were. We were casting for young
(40:37):
Everett and Young Sarah in the flashbacks in Season 6 and we
hadn't cast them yet. And I was watching 1923 and I
sent it to Sean and Aaron and was like, I think this is what
we want if we can find it. I don't know how Taylor Sheridan
found it, but I think this is This should be the bar.
(40:58):
No pressure to anyone. No pressure.
And by the way, that is much harder to do in zoom.
So like, I don't know that I have advice for how to pull that
off because looking into a camera is different.
But and also I've been married long enough that I don't even
know how to flirt anymore. So I mean, I guess I flirt with
my wife, but it's different. But I think you can connect with
(41:20):
someone on a camera that you cansee.
It's just not quite the same. Absolutely.
I mean, from your experience of being an actor in the room to
now being on the other side of it.
What advice would you have for actors in taking redirects and
making them feel for themselves?Personally more of a
(41:40):
collaborative process because I think some actors who are so
conditioned to self taping don't.
Like I've seen it in class environments, but like you kind
of just see them check out and they they're nodding but it's
not processing and then you see them do the exact same thing
again. And that's an example of
(42:00):
something that will not work well for you on set because
you're going to get thoughts like it's a collaborative
process. The director is there to give
you thoughts. We're there to give you
thoughts. I mean, look, we hope not to,
but almost always there's some thought or like a, can you even
a technical one of can you slow this line down or can you look
over there? And so I think it's just
(42:20):
remembering that the people you're reading for want to give
you the part. They don't want to see 10 more
people. They want you to be the right
person because we're terrified that this character we've
written, there's not an actor that can play it.
And so every person that comes in, we're like, Oh my God, I
hope this is the person. And so any thoughts we give are
not in service of you not being good.
(42:44):
It's in service of hopefully youmeet that criteria of you've
made our day. And so it is a collaboration.
I know it doesn't feel like it because of the way auditions are
set up and but the more you treat it that way, I think the
more flexible you can be becauseyou don't feel like you're being
told what you did wrong. You're being told what else you
(43:04):
can do. That would be interesting.
Amazing, and one of the core beliefs of the podcast is making
arts education accessible for all.
If you were starting out now as a screenwriter, what resources
would you seek out or want to share with other young writers
now having that hindsight? That's a good question.
(43:25):
I do think taking acting classesis very beneficial.
Most of the writers I know who have acted or have taken writing
acting classes have a much easier time writing dialogue and
knowing if the dialogue sounds like something someone would say
and if it's deliverable. So I do think that's an under
(43:45):
given piece of advice. Like don't, don't take it 'cause
you also want to be an actor. I mean, if you do, awesome.
But I think it's getting to knowall parts of how things are
made. Like make a short film so that
you know what, how what you've written is going to translate on
the screen. Really get to know.
Yeah. I mean, you're, you're creating
the kernel of this giant enterprise.
(44:08):
The more you can understand how what you're writing is going to
be able to be brought to life ornot be able to be brought to
life is really important. I also, for me, having not gone
to film school and I don't even know if this is a thing anymore,
I used to watch every director or writers commentary on DVD
that I could get my hands on. I remember one of the best ones
(44:29):
was for Pirates of the Caribbean.
They had all three writers, theyall talked about like what they
contributed to each draft and how other people, you know, how
the other writer had this. And so I think just sort of
seeing the things you like and, and also, I think early on,
don't be afraid to emulate the things you like.
Like if you're making a cake, you can take a couple things
(44:51):
from a bunch of different recipes and combine them.
And that's not stealing. That's being influenced by the
things that matter to you. And then the last thing, which
was the most important is just right.
A mediocre idea that's finished is better than an amazing idea
you can only tell somebody aboutat a party.
(45:14):
Well, I think that's a pretty good point to we've landed at
our last question. What is one thing you wish you'd
go back and tell your younger self?
Don't forget to have a life. This isn't everything and the
more well-rounded the rest of your life is, the better this
(45:34):
job will be and the more you'll have to bring to it, both as an
actor, a writer, director. When I met my wife, I think I
thought that my career was the thing that would define me.
And I love my job, but being my kids dad and my wife's husband
is the thing that defines me. And my career is the thing that
(45:55):
I get to do for fun. And I'm very lucky.
So yeah, live your life, have fun.
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us
on What's My Frame and sharing your creativity and your
process, but also the projects that you're creating that we get
to enjoy as an audience member as well.
It was my pleasure. Hi everyone, thanks for
(46:15):
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame to Stay in the Know for upcoming events, I'm your host,
Laurie Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone, Today what's my frame?
I'm joining a writer and executive producer, Richard
Keith. This conversation is for the
creatives that think outside thebox, run with each and every
opportunity given, and believe in the power of creative
community. Today, Rich shares the pivotal
opportunities and mentors that shaped his early career as an
actor and writer. He shares insight into his
creative process with long time writing partner Aaron Cardillo.
(00:24):
They're currently executive producers on Netflix longest
running drama series Virgin River, now entering its eighth
season. We chat about challenging
yourself as a writer and navigating the business side of
the creative. Now let's get to the
conversation. Hey Richard, welcome to what's
my frame? How you doing I'm?
Good, thanks for having me. Thank you for coming on and
(00:46):
chatting about your creative process and experience.
We like to start every conversation kind of the same
way, with your origin story, theinfluential mentors and
influences, perhaps opportunities that shaped your
creative voice and vision comingup in the business.
Sure, I I'm originally from a small town in North Carolina
(01:06):
named Beech Mountain, recalled Beech Mountain.
I never know which to say. It's up in the mountains near
Boone. Grew up in Charlotte but then
moved there and was always superinterested in writing and
performing. My grandpa was an ad copywriter
for Ogilvy and Mather and Young and Rubicon.
So like, he did reach out and touch someone and be all you can
(01:30):
be. I think he might have even done
Diamonds or Forever. So I was, you know, interested
in it always. And weirdly, there was a show
that I'm sure most people remember called Dawson's Creek
that came on the air and was about a young guy who wanted to
be a writer. And it was filmed in North
Carolina. And it was the first time that
it occurred to me like, oh, thatcould be a job I could actually
(01:52):
have. Like, I'd always thought, like,
maybe I'll be a doctor or a lawyer or something.
I don't know, more academic I guess, but at that point I was
like, oh, I think I could do this.
And so I ended up graduating high school early after my
sophomore year and moving to NewYork to study acting.
I I ran an acting coach's studioin exchange for free classes.
(02:13):
Really nice guy. I don't know as a 17 year old if
I did the best job running his studio.
But yeah, I worked for him for acouple years and then was
auditioning a bit and actually got my, I was, I had two
vouchers to get my SAG card fromdoing extra work on a show
called Ed. And I was on set.
(02:34):
And a guy they had hired for a couple lines didn't, I guess,
live up to what they'd hoped in casting him.
And they swapped me. And I remember walking off set
and they were chatting about like, what they were going to
do. And I just remember thinking,
like, say something funny, say something clever, Remind them
that you're here. And I don't know what I said,
but I said something. And then I heard them behind me
(02:55):
say, Rich could do it. He's funny.
And next thing I know, I was in hair and makeup.
And that was my first role. It was like one line, I think.
I think I leaned forward and said bingo in the class.
That's the one time I've heard that that has worked for an
actor, so I'm glad. I was very, very lucky.
But you know, it's a right time,right place sort of thing.
Like I, I remember going to Appalachian State University and
(03:17):
seeing Spike Lee. He came to speak and his one big
piece of advice was like, just get on the set and stay there.
Nothing good happens when you'reat home.
I mean, I, that's not always true.
You do have to write somewhere. But so that was sort of the
beginning of my acting journey. And then from there I moved to
LAA little bit later, right? Sort of maybe year after
(03:38):
September 11th and was acting primarily and did a bunch of
like sitcoms and some hour dramas.
I tested for pilots but never got her series regular.
But I was recurring on a on Grey's Anatomy and a bunch of
other shows that you haven't heard of and started writing on
the side. I was doing sketch comedy and
improv comedy, and then I had anidea for a feature film and I
(04:04):
don't know why, but I think fromdoing a sketch show where I had
to write new sketches every week.
I had seen Mike Myers on Inside the Actor Studio and he said he
wrote Austin Powers in four days.
And I was like, OK, I'm just going to write this in four
days. I'm going to sit down if I'm
writing all these sketches. Like it doesn't have to be good.
I just have to get to the end ofthe script.
And I did, and it never ended upgetting made.
At one point Rob Reiner was going to direct it, but it's How
(04:27):
I Met my writing partner Aaron. She had written a film on her
own and we swapped scripts and gave each other notes and just
really liked each other's writing.
We met an acting class also in LAA Woman named Warner Loughlin.
And from there we were still sort of writing on our own and
acting, but the stuff we were writing together just got more
(04:49):
attention and and sort of kept going.
We met with a company called Alloy Entertainment who had an
idea for a show. The the idea they had was a
title, which was so I married your MILF and they were like, do
you want to pitch on it? And Aaron and I were like, I
don't know if that's our like, do we, I don't know, do we want
to pitch on it? And so we nobody's ever asked us
(05:11):
to pitch on anything. So we were like, you know what?
We have to pitch on it. And we went and sort of thought
of an idea and it became a series for CWC called
Significant Mother. It was 1/2 hour comedy and we so
it was originally for CW Seed, which was their website and they
gave us money for 66 minutes of content.
And we that was for the web. And we were like, well we don't
(05:33):
want to do web content long term.
So we wrote 322 minute episodes for television that could be
broken into 11 minute webisodes if need be.
Because the idea was that CW Seed was an incubator for
comedies for the network. And we sort of turned it in and
we're like, we feel like this isATV show, just put it on TV, not
(05:56):
knowing how impossible that was because we were so new to
everything. But they did.
And so that those 3 episodes became a nine episode series.
It was a summer series starring Josh Zuckerman and Nathaniel
Buzolik and Krista Allen and Johnny Silverman and JLE, and it
(06:18):
was super fun. It was like community.
It was very sort of weird. It was about a guy who finds out
that his best friend isn't just sleeping with his mom, but they
have feelings for each other. And so they're roommates and
they have to deal with the logistics of that.
They also work together. He owns a restaurant and his
buddy's a bartender there. So just, you know, kind of a
(06:39):
standard situation comedy. But it was so much fun to work
on. Aaron and I wrote pretty much
the whole thing ourselves. We hired 2 of the writers who
were great, but we were new at writing and we didn't know how
to like show, run the them. So we ended up, they wrote great
drafts, but we ended up having to rewrite a lot of stuff also
because we were the only ones onthe whole time.
(06:59):
So it was just kind of like a boot camp for making ATV show.
And that was pretty much our entry into it.
And then we were told we were getting picked up for a second
season off the record and then we never did.
And then funny enough, five years later, right before COVID,
Mark Pedowitz, who ran The CW, wanted to pick it up again five
(07:22):
years later. And we came up with a whole
pitch for how to do it five years later.
And then COVID unfortunately killed it.
But it was like, it was like this tiny bit away from
happening. I was doing a hand gesture, but
I realized this is audio. It was like about to happen.
And then it didn't. And then in between that we did
a show called Life Sentence for The CW, also with Lucy Hale that
(07:43):
we also developed originally as 1/2 hour was 1/2 hour cable
dramedy. Then we pitched it around town
with Bill Lawrence as 1/2 hour single Cam for network except to
Free Form and CW where we pitched it as an hour dramedy
and it didn't sell on network, but it did sell to Free Form and
CW. And so we ended up doing it at
CW. And then by that point Aaron and
(08:05):
I were just sort of writing everything together and pretty
much have sense. We worked on a show called
Fuller House for a season and wehad an overall deal at Warner
Brothers. We've sold like 12 network
pilots, 10 or 12 that have nevergotten made.
So I have quite a library of unspoken dialogue.
And then we got, we jumped onto Virgin River three years ago for
(08:30):
season 5. And that's where we are as of
today. And I don't know if I answered
all the components of your question, but that's the origin
story short of starting at conception or birth and I don't
know what happens tomorrow so. No one does.
I don't think I have to commend you because I knew nothing about
the show the first time I watched it.
Like years ago when it came out.First time watching that episode
(08:51):
I immediately saw friends from college.
Like those two male characters were so defined.
You watched our show, You're theone.
Yes, I'm the one, I'm the one. Yes, I have been an Iding.
I'm the one. But no, like I, it was quirky,
but it was like, but you could, I mean, also, maybe it's because
(09:14):
when I was like reading in your bio about Boone, I grew up in
Southwest Virginia. Like I've been to Boone.
Like I like, I think there is like this like familiarity
because like I saw friends from like UNC Chapel Hill.
I saw people from tech in Radford.
Like I, I heard there was something about it that was very
familiar and very funny to me. But I'm curious, was it just
(09:36):
that young exuberance that you chose to like they were offering
an 11 minute and you're like, well, actually we could.
We could do this. I mean, it could still work in
this, but we could, yeah. I mean, what gave you the
confidence or the idea to do that?
Yeah, it was a combination of being too naive to know that
that was probably impossible, which actually just saw an
(09:58):
interview with Akiva Goldsman, who said he acts like every film
he comes on to is being made because they get made.
If you act like that, if you actlike it's development.
And so, you know, I think we just were that way.
And I will say there have been times I think where we haven't
been and maybe 10 or 12 times where it didn't happen.
But even with life sentence, I think I was always like, yeah,
(10:19):
this is going to get made. Bill Lawrence is producing it
and Lucy Hale's going to be in and house.
It's not going to be a show, butthat one.
Also, we had a great producing partner at Alloy named Trip Reed
who did a lot of their basicallyall of their digital stuff and
he thought it was a good idea aswell.
And so, you know, he encouraged us to go down that path and it
(10:42):
still did cut. Like if you watch the episodes
in the middle of each episode for the first three, there is
kind of like the mid episode actbreak has kind of a bigger
cliffhanger. And weirdly I met Tripp
auditioning for a show that I can't remember the name of.
It was a web series for Alloy that Sheree Appleby was the lead
of, and I tested for it. I think it was to be her
(11:05):
boyfriend or something. But the other two guys were
like, just annoyingly handsome. And I was like, well, I guess
I'm going to be the funny guy. So I improvised a bit in the in
the audition. Again, I was writing at that
point, so I felt like I improvised in places that didn't
change the meaning of the scene.But one of the producers who
wasn't Trip was like, you do realize this isn't your show?
(11:28):
And I was like, 100%, but it is my audition.
And so I'm not expecting this tobe on TV, but I think this is my
strong suit. So I'm I'm totally happy to do
it the other way. And I did.
And I didn't get it, but Trip reached out to my manager and
was like, does Rich write? I feel like he's funny, which I
know that sounds weird because that's happened twice, but I'm
also not that funny because I did a commercial with Tony
(11:51):
Cavallaro and Jim Gaffigan for for Corona or something.
And this was long before Rich's Gemstones and they there was 2
spots and there's three guys. It was Tony, me and another guy
whose name I don't remember. And for the second spot they
pulled me because they didn't think I was funny.
I've had it work both ways wherethey're like Rich is funny,
(12:14):
let's give him a job and Rich isn't that funny, let's not give
him a job. So.
So I would love to talk about your writing partner, you and
Aaron, how do you all divvy up responsibilities?
Because you mentioned about likethe writers room, but that first
writers room, but how like when you're pitching, when you're,
we're picking which ideas to pursue and really focus on, how
(12:35):
do you all decide which direction to go and who gets
what responsibilities? It really depends.
If we are, it depends on how many things we're doing at the
same time. We're always doing a couple
things because A there's two of us so we have the brain space to
do it and B, we split a salary so having double the amount of
(12:57):
jobs is a good thing if we can find them.
Typically in terms of ideas these days, because we love
Virgin River and aren't really like trying to leave, it's if
someone brings us an idea, like most of the things we've written
recently, our ideas people have brought to us.
We have a Christmas movie in Netflix that I think is going to
shoot this year that was based on a book that the producers
(13:20):
brought to us 'cause they produced Aaron's solo feature.
Isn't it romantic? We still talk about them, but
generally if there's like a coolteam that brings us stuff, we're
inclined to say yes. And then if it's our own stuff,
it's been a while, but usually we just talk about it.
You know, if we have a few ideas, we'll talk about them and
(13:42):
see what interests us. And then we tend to try to have
like 3 to 5 ideas that we have, you know, a couple paragraphs
on. And then if we have general
meetings with producers or studios, we'll kind of bring
them up and then sort of see what has traction.
So we haven't really specked anything or not specked much in
a while. So that's usually how we land on
(14:03):
an idea in terms of divvying up the writing.
We break all the story together.We do a really detailed outline
together, especially 'cause there's two of us, we need to be
on the same page with what the story's gonna be.
And also, from now, working in TV, it's just you do it anyway.
And we've learned the hard way that if you don't, you end up
doing more, way more work later.To avoid a little bit of work
ahead. Typically I'll write the first
(14:26):
draft. Not always though, but usually
I'll write the first draft and as I'm writing it, I'll send
Aaron pages like each day. And then so because I'm a really
big morning person and she's more of an evening person, so
I'll write in the morning and then she'll go through it in the
evening and then edit it. And then if she wants to add
anything to it or you know, add another scene or whatever like
(14:47):
she might. So she'll do editing and more
writing in the afternoon. And then we sort of go through
it that way. And then after we have a draft
put together, usually it dependson time.
Usually we'll go back through itand just either give one more
round of notes to ourselves or if it's like a very tonally
specific thing, we'll read it out loud or, you know, act it
(15:09):
out a little bit just to see howit flows.
Certain projects, that's not necessary, Like Virgin River, it
isn't as necessary because it's so grounded.
There's not like a musicality tothe way people speak.
It's not like Gilmore Girls or Shonda where it's got to sound a
certain way. It needs to feel really organic
and true to the people who are speaking the words.
And I think we've been doing it a few years now.
(15:32):
So we generally know also in TV,it's going to get rewritten a
bunch anyway. So you want the first draft to
be good, but you're not, you know, super, super precious.
Yeah. And then we are working on a
novel. That one, I wrote a first draft
of it because it was. It's based on the feature that I
wrote all those years ago, the first one.
(15:53):
And then Aaron edited and gave notes that that's the only thing
that I've done the majority of the writing on.
But I think it's just how it happened.
We were also working on other stuff and Aaron was sort of
spearheading those things. But yeah, it's, it's sort of has
evolved over time. I don't think there's any right
way. Some writing partners sitting
right together. I, I think we would go nuts, not
(16:16):
because we don't get along, but it's just very slow.
And some of the fun of writing is acting like you're, you're
performing as you're writing these things down in your head.
And so when you, for me and for her, I think at least if you get
to the point where you're sitting there and being like,
what's next, what's next, what'snext?
You're not really sort of seeingwhat comes out and then editing
(16:36):
it later. You're editing it as you're
writing it, which for us just doesn't yield the best results
and takes the fun out of the most fun part of the process.
Which you've got to, you've got to maintain all of the fun that
you can have in this business now.
Yeah, I mean, I'm very lucky. I love writing.
It's it's a lot of work. So is acting, But writing in
(16:57):
particular is work I really love.
It's really it really. It's challenging, but it's
fulfilling. And I, as an actor, my range was
limited. I could play pretty much
someone's nondescript boyfriend or like nondescript Dr. or I was
just nondescript. Whereas when you're writing, you
know, you get to sort of play a bunch of characters.
(17:19):
Yeah, yeah, No, I, I that's one reason I love writing.
It's it's, it's very cathartic, but it is also a beautiful
exercise for your imagination. And I think it improves and
recharges other outlets as well.For sure.
You've worked with a number of networks and studios in your
career and had really great success selling shows like you
(17:39):
mentioned. How do you start establishing a
creative dialogue and a partnership with each new like
producing partner, each studio or network?
How do you start establishing that groundworking foundation?
I mean, I think I think you justearlier in my career, I think I
(17:59):
was also younger. I think I always, you know, if
you met with producers or agentsor any anybody in a position of
power, I think A, you were usually I was younger than them,
but B, you often are like, oh, this person is like the
gatekeeper to my career. And I think the more you start
to view them as partners and collaborators.
Even when people give notes, like a lot of writers, I think
(18:21):
tend to seize up at notes and not want to take them or think
somebody's trying to change their, their, their masterpiece
into something that it's not meant to be.
But I think Aaron and I, one of the reasons I think we're good
partners is we've always approached it that they're
collaborating too. Like they may not be the writers
on it, but everybody wants it tobe good.
Nobody's nobody that's involved with the project is like, you
(18:42):
know, what I really want to do is like light this on fire and
burn it to the ground. So I think the more you, you
know, the more you view them as partners and also human beings
that you can talk to about stuffthat isn't work related.
Like Aaron and I had a general meeting the other day with
someone and they both went through divorces recently.
And about half our meeting they were just talking about their
(19:03):
divorces, which led us into talking about an idea that we
have based on Aaron's divorce. And so I think that the more you
show them your humanity and thatyou're more than just a writer,
the more they remember you, the more they're inclined to work
with you. Like I think everybody loves
this work, but people don't wantto just talk about work.
So when you can establish a relationship that's based on
(19:24):
some form of a friendship, however, you know, small, it's
helpful. And I think we also just got
lucky coming out of significant mother, the same producers who
produces Isn't it romantic, GinaMatthews and Grant Scarbo, who
are also brought us on to do this Netflix Christmas film.
They, we met with them and had an idea for a, like a, a murder
(19:51):
mystery set at a wedding, but like a comedic 1.
And they helped us shape it. And we sold that to CW.
It was the first time we'd sold a show like in the traditional
pitching process. And so we just really hit it off
with them. And we ended up developing it
with Warner Brothers with a woman named Clancy who now sort
of runs tell, you know, television development there.
(20:13):
And we just hit it off with her too.
And so that show didn't go. And then afterwards she just was
like, I really want to develop something else with you guys.
And so they, we, we developed something else with them and got
on Fuller House because we've never been in a writer's room
that wasn't ours. And through that process, we
just got really close with them.So that life sentence came out
(20:33):
of that deal. And then, yeah, we were at
Warner Brothers for a long time before we moved other places.
But even at Warner Brothers, we were selling to other networks.
And in back in the day, you pitched in person.
So you did feel like you met these people and you got to know
them. The zoom of it all definitely
makes it feel once or twice removed.
(20:55):
But yeah, I think it's just being a, a congenial, affable
person and, and also wanting to hear about them and what they do
and who they are. And I think that's that's what
you build relationships on is not just the idea you're talking
about or the show you're trying to sell, but like getting to
know each other's people. All right, that was a very long
winded answer for what ended up being 2 sentences.
(21:15):
No, it was really, really good. And you speak in the way that
like my mind works and yes, it'sa winding Rd. but like
ultimately all the all the stopson the road trip are are checked
and like, that's how my mind processes.
So I'm with you. You're good.
It's a mixture of chaos and attention deficit disorder for
me. Say you touched on, you know,
(21:37):
going from in person to Zoom, you know, that's that's one of
the huge kind of sticking pointsof our business.
Regardless of what you do of that, that disconnect now, how
do you all still find connectivity?
And is it like the way that you research and prepare?
Is it trying to go from a Zoom to like building an in person
(21:59):
like a coffee or a lunch? How, how do you navigate that
now for yourself with building the relationships?
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's funny. We, our current agent, Olivia
Blaustein, we ended up switchingto her during COVID because our
agent left UTA to become a manager.
And so we had gotten to know Olivia because we tried to
(22:20):
option a few books that she wrapped.
And we just were like, Oh my gosh, we have the same taste.
And so when we were looking, I reached out to her and yeah, we
just ended up hitting it off with her.
But we worked together for, because of COVID for like over a
year before we ever met in person.
So it was definitely, you know, it's a new space.
I think you can make connectionsover Zoom.
(22:44):
Auditioning is definitely harder.
I think, you know, I haven't auditioned much on Zoom, but
I've watched a lot of auditions on Zoom.
Pitching can be easier and harder.
The easier part is that you haveit right in front of your face
on your computer screen. And if you used to be an actor
and auditioned for hosting gigs that you have a teleprompter
(23:04):
that you're in control of. And it's lovely, but you miss
that. Like everybody's muted and you
used to sit in a room and peoplewould laugh and, you know,
you'd, you'd improvise off of what they were saying or they
would jump in and ask a questionin the middle of the pitch,
which was part of, I think how you develop a relationship also
is that dialogue. So it's more challenging, but I
think you just have to put in the time and, and, you know, the
(23:29):
5 minutes before you're talking about whatever you're talking
about that day, check in with them and see what they're up to
and how their weekend was. Yeah, and, and I do think it's a
blessing and it's a curse and a blessing.
Like for me, the ability Virgin River, we are in the room Monday
through Thursday and then Fridays are virtual.
So I can live in Mammoth Lakes and work in Los Angeles.
(23:49):
I drive back and forth the 20 or24 weeks we're in the room.
I drive down on Sunday nights, stay in LA until Thursday and
after work at 5, drive 5 hours back to Mammoth for the weekend.
And so it, you know, the work life balance that it affords is
awesome. And it's, I think made me a
better writer and a better father and just a happier human
(24:10):
being. That said, trying to do a
writer's room entirely on Zoom, I think it's very tricky.
Just, you know, the just the, the flow of it and there there
are issues, especially in the brainstorming stage.
So yeah, I think it's it's like anything, it's been a mixed bag.
Yeah, now Virgin River is one ofmy favorite shows.
(24:30):
I've been with it from the beginning.
How did that project come about for you and Aaron?
We had come out of, we were lucky to have an overall deal at
Warner Brothers during COVID, which was sort of amazing
because we had a, for the first time in our life, we had a
weekly paycheck when people weren't getting them.
(24:51):
So I mean, we still work the whole time.
We sold 4 pilots with Warner Brothers during COVID that we
developed. So it wasn't like we were just
taking their money and gardening, although I did do a
lot of gardening, but we came out of that, we developed a
couple things that didn't go andwe both needed steady income and
(25:12):
we just missed working on stuff that was getting made like
afterlife sentence. I think, like I said, we sold 10
or 12 things that didn't get made and we were like, we just
want to work on something and like be on set again.
And CCR writing through to the finish line.
And Olivia brought up Virgin River and the the creator and
(25:33):
original showrunner was leaving and a new showrunner was coming
on named Patrick Sean Smith, who's still the showrunner.
And so they asked if we'd want to meet with him about being his
number 2, and we were excited. Ben Hollingsworth, who plays
Brady, is a friend of mine and my wife is good friends with his
wife. So we'd watched all of it
already anyway. And so before the meeting, we
(25:57):
literally, I reached out to Ben Aaron's friends with Zibby from
their day, her days as an actress.
So we had Ben and Zibby call Sean.
Sean had developed at Warner Brothers recently.
He did a show called Heartstrings, the Dolly Parton
show. So we called all the executives
we knew at Warner Brothers and also had them call him just to
make sure before he met us, thathe knew that he really should
not hear us because it's those jobs are very tricky to get.
(26:20):
And so our. Yeah.
So Olivia brought it to us and then we really tried our best to
to sort of grease the wheels as much as possible.
And then we met Sean and he's just like the most wonderful
guy. And we really hit it off.
So it was, it was just, I think you know, a, a confluence of a
good agent and and luck. That's right.
(26:43):
And I think it is so important to have your very long reach of
your community of who will. It's not who knows you, it's who
knows you and likes you in this business.
I am a firm believer. And when you can have those
people that will reach out on your behalf and put in a good
word of these are good people that do good work, it it's so,
(27:04):
so valuable. Well, you obviously you answered
my next question. You you were familiar with the
show and we're already watching.How from a professional
standpoint, did you dive into these characters of
understanding what was established and then how you
were going to create a really challenge yourself and the
journey you wanted to take the audience on now giving life and
(27:25):
words to these characters. Yeah.
I mean, it was definitely tricky.
I mean, I think Sean probably carried the most stress for that
because as the showrunner, if wedidn't stay true to the
original, it was going to be on him more than anyone else.
So we were all concerned about it and we talked about it a lot.
(27:47):
I think he was very concerned, rightfully so.
It was one of those things whereI think for us as writers, they
went really far with some of thestorylines in Season 4.
And we did find that previously there were a lot of cliffhangers
that just kind of got swept under the rug.
(28:08):
That was sort of the format of the show.
It was like preachers laying in a pool of his own blood.
And then at the beginning of thenext season, it was like, oh, he
cut himself making fish. So we challenged ourselves.
That was our first challenge that we gave ourselves was to
pay off or continue through every single storyline from
where it left off in Season 4. And doing that, I think just
(28:30):
immediately ties you into the world and the characters.
I feel like for Aaron and I, ourvoice just happened to kind of
line up with this show, which was very lucky.
I I don't know that it happened that easily for everyone, but I
I don't know if it was watching the show or if it's just the
(28:51):
sort of show we would write on our own anyway.
But even then, as you know, as scripts come in and stuff, we
all, Sean, Aaron and I read all the drafts and go through and
make sure it sounds like the right voice.
And the actors on the show also have been with the show for so
long and really know these characters.
And if a line or something doesn't feel like something they
(29:11):
would say, they have no problem telling you.
You know, everybody's very invested.
Everybody loves the show and is very grateful for being on a
show that is so wide reaching ina time where many shows that are
wonderful struggle to find an audience because there's so many
shows. So I don't think anyone takes it
(29:31):
for granted how lucky we are to to be a part of something as
special as this show. And so it's a many faceted
approach to making sure that theshow sort of stays what it was,
but hopefully evolves and grows and, and, and provides new
exciting things for the audience.
Our first season was season 5, which was the wildfires and
(29:54):
miscarriage. We wrote the miscarriage
episode. So we wrote the episode.
Our first scene on set was Alex in the bathroom discovering she
had miscarried the baby. And then the second scene was
her ultrasounding herself and seeing that her pregnancy had
terminated. And she was so heartbreaking in
(30:15):
that scene. But I remember turning to Aaron
and being like, Oh my, this is unbelievable.
Like we worked on 1/2 hour comedy where a guy sat down on a
couch and found a dildo that hismom and best friend had used and
threw it across the room. And now we're doing this like
beautiful heart wrenching scene.Yeah.
(30:37):
I mean, it was very, it was one of those moments so where you're
like, you never know where your career is going to take you.
And so it was, it was a very, itwas a very cool first moment on
set, though. I'm not sure why I started
talking about the story now because I got so lost as I was
telling it. I was like, I don't know if I
should tell the story, but I did.
When you bring that up of like, I have such a visual of like
(30:57):
where she was on the set and like with the bed behind her and
doing doing the ultrasound to herself and then having to like
swallow that to then like the way that you all right and the
way that the actor just so vibrantly has all of those
shades of like strength, but vulnerability.
And it should. I mean, Alex is one of the most
(31:20):
dynamic actors. I think that's working today.
She's just. So talented.
She's so talented, she's so emotionally available and
honest. And you know, the thing she
doesn't get to show on the show very much 'cause it's not Mel
is. She's very funny.
And Mel isn't necessarily funny.She's a little more gritty and
earnest and, and she has momentsof it, but she's Alex is, yeah.
(31:44):
She's very, very, like, disarmingly funny.
Yeah. When you're adding recurring and
pivotal characters, because that's something that is really
interesting, that like these characters will join into the
Virgin River community and it makes perfect sense.
They fit in. How do you all have
conversations with your creativeteam, with casting directors?
(32:04):
If like what you're looking for,like the qualities, the arc that
this character is going to take through this season or beyond,
how do you have those conversations and how do you
feel are most effective to have those conversations?
When we're sort of blue skying the season at the beginning of
the year, we usually as we land on storylines, we'll know like,
(32:29):
oh, there needs to be a character in this that fulfills
this. I'm trying to think, because
next season hasn't come out yet,so I can't use that example.
Oh, in the end of Season 6, the character of Marley who shows up
and says, I want you to have my baby, we knew ahead of time that
(32:50):
she was going to be a recurring character.
We knew that she was going to bea patient of Mel's.
We didn't necessarily know that's where that was going to
end. We talked about a a bunch of
options and, you know, I think where it goes will be
interesting. But, you know, we didn't
necessarily know that was going to be her end point, but we sort
(33:14):
of knew what type of person we wanted.
And it really depends. I mean, we we talked to our
casting director Tiffany a lot about who we think this person
is. But a lot of the times it
evolves through who comes in, who reads for the roles.
(33:34):
There's a character that appearsat the end of Season 6, Doctor
Hayes, who is sort of coming after Doc's medical license.
It seems like at the end of the season that was written as a
much older character. And then as we saw actors with,
there were a lot of great actors, but trying to go toe to
toe with Tim Mathison as a tall order.
And Kai Erickson, who's playing the role came in and was just so
(33:59):
awesome. And we were like, he's he's
younger and so he can go toe to toe with him in a different way.
He's not trying to like out seniority him.
He's just a different sort of guy altogether.
So they can butt heads. So sometimes we get who we want,
and sometimes who we want wasn'tthe right person anyway.
And so as the character evolves it through casting, then we have
(34:22):
we, you know, we'll adjust the writing to match the person that
we cast. And ironically, Kai, I've known
for like 20 years. He and I did sketch comedy
together at Acme Comedy Theater,like in the early 2000s.
And I didn't even know he was auditioning.
His tape had just come in and I,I don't know if I had seen it
for, I think somebody else saw it and was like, this guy is
(34:43):
great. And then I watched it was like,
yes, he is great and I also knowhim.
He's a great guy. But then you know, that happens
all the time. I think you have to be flexible
because if you don't write to the strengths of the person you
cast, you're writing yourself out of an interesting character.
Yeah, well, we talked about, just touched on it about, you
know, virtual editions and self tapes and things like that.
(35:06):
What stands out to you positive?Like when you know these
characters, when you have written these words, what stands
out to and makes it more 3 or 4 dimensional for you as a viewer
when you're watching? You mean in watching an audition
tape or in auditions? Gosh, that's such a complex
question because it's so different for every role.
(35:28):
I do think in the virtual audition space, you really have
to come in, like, don't make a crazy choice off the top because
that will be jarring. But you really have to be in the
moment and have had a strong present prior moment and really
be connected to the scene right off the top.
Because people's attention span on tape is just not the same as
(35:51):
in the room. That said, I think even in the
room you do tend to know. I wish I'd known this when I was
an actor. You know, 10 or 15 seconds in,
if the person could be the person, they may not absolutely
be the person, but you know, pretty quickly if they're in the
running but in the room, I thinkthere's more room for them to
surprise you at the end 'cause you're sitting there on a tape.
(36:15):
I think it's very easy to want to move on or check out or, you
know, and, and the quality of being in the room of like coming
in and being affable and being flexible and being a great
collaborator. That's sort of gone.
When you send in a tape, we assume it's the best you can do.
Also, it is edited. There have definitely been times
(36:37):
we've cast people off tape and it was the best they could do
and then they weren't as flexible and and adept at the
craft of acting on set because they had so many opportunities
to make that tape in a low, in amuch more low pressure setting
than being on set. So as much as people bemoan the
pressure of auditions not being like being on set, being on set
(36:59):
for a guest spot on a big show is really, it should be nerve
wracking. It's a lot of responsibility.
So the nerves of the audition and your ability to manage them
do show, I think some of your ability to show up on set and do
the same thing. So I think that does
unfortunately get lost in the inthe zoom shuffle.
Yeah. Do you all normally have for
(37:21):
Virgin River Ring? And in the current iteration of
auditions, do you all normally have virtual callbacks or live
producer sessions or anything inLA or how are you all doing
that? Almost always virtual because
primarily we cast actors from Canada.
They usually, they usually have to be UBCP, which is the
subdivision of ACTRA that's in British Columbia.
(37:44):
And so either we're not there cuz we're in California or we're
not there cuz we're on set. So almost, almost exclusively on
tape. OK, so then let's just keep
going down that that journey about auditions and and when you
are watching, Kim reads. And this can be for Virgin River
or any project that you can or cannot talk about by like title
(38:06):
or something. But what are you looking for in
those Kim reads? Because we haven't talked about
that very much on the podcast. And I think, I think there's a
lot of unspoken boxes that are looking to be checked in those
opportunities. I mean, I I assume when you say
Kim reads, you're speaking more for two characters that are
(38:27):
romantically involved chemistry than two people butting heads
or. I mean, it can be that, but I
honestly, I think when you have someone that is coming in to
challenge a a senior character on a project, I think there's an
expansion beyond just a romanticchem read.
Yes, there can be. I have not seen those sort of
chem reads. I'm sure they do happen on
(38:49):
things. The usually it's, you know, for
a new love interest, especially if it's on something like Virgin
River where your characters are already established.
You're trying to see who will play off of 1 of them.
But it's really, I think it's hard to put it into words.
What I would say is if you haven't watched the first season
(39:09):
of 1923, watch it and the the love story that takes place in
Africa, the way those two actorslook at each other is not
something you can write. And if that's the story you were
trying to tell, you can write all the great lines of dialogue
in the world and they won't sellit or you cast the two right
(39:33):
people and you can write really marginal lines of dialogue and
it jumps off the page. So, you know, I think it, it's
just, it's that, it's that sparkof it's the same spark.
I think when you're dating someone, it's, there's not like
an an answer to it, but you haveto really connect with that
person. And I think you have to push
their buttons a little and you have to get under their skin the
(39:54):
way people that have chemistry do.
You know, I think even in a lovestory, like one of my favorites
is The Notebook and Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling's
chemistry. And that is like just
unbelievable. But again, it's because they
push each other and they they they challenge each other.
(40:14):
They have senses of humor. But in 1923 specifically, they
just look like they want to eat each other.
Like they just. It's all in the eyes.
It's insane. It's the most chemistry I've
ever seen on anything ever. I think it was just one of my
favorite it we were. We were casting for young
(40:37):
Everett and Young Sarah in the flashbacks in Season 6 and we
hadn't cast them yet. And I was watching 1923 and I
sent it to Sean and Aaron and was like, I think this is what
we want if we can find it. I don't know how Taylor Sheridan
found it, but I think this is This should be the bar.
(40:58):
No pressure to anyone. No pressure.
And by the way, that is much harder to do in zoom.
So like, I don't know that I have advice for how to pull that
off because looking into a camera is different.
But and also I've been married long enough that I don't even
know how to flirt anymore. So I mean, I guess I flirt with
my wife, but it's different. But I think you can connect with
(41:20):
someone on a camera that you cansee.
It's just not quite the same. Absolutely.
I mean, from your experience of being an actor in the room to
now being on the other side of it.
What advice would you have for actors in taking redirects and
making them feel for themselves?Personally more of a
(41:40):
collaborative process because I think some actors who are so
conditioned to self taping don't.
Like I've seen it in class environments, but like you kind
of just see them check out and they they're nodding but it's
not processing and then you see them do the exact same thing
again. And that's an example of
(42:00):
something that will not work well for you on set because
you're going to get thoughts like it's a collaborative
process. The director is there to give
you thoughts. We're there to give you
thoughts. I mean, look, we hope not to,
but almost always there's some thought or like a, can you even
a technical one of can you slow this line down or can you look
over there? And so I think it's just
(42:20):
remembering that the people you're reading for want to give
you the part. They don't want to see 10 more
people. They want you to be the right
person because we're terrified that this character we've
written, there's not an actor that can play it.
And so every person that comes in, we're like, Oh my God, I
hope this is the person. And so any thoughts we give are
not in service of you not being good.
(42:44):
It's in service of hopefully youmeet that criteria of you've
made our day. And so it is a collaboration.
I know it doesn't feel like it because of the way auditions are
set up and but the more you treat it that way, I think the
more flexible you can be becauseyou don't feel like you're being
told what you did wrong. You're being told what else you
(43:04):
can do. That would be interesting.
Amazing, and one of the core beliefs of the podcast is making
arts education accessible for all.
If you were starting out now as a screenwriter, what resources
would you seek out or want to share with other young writers
now having that hindsight? That's a good question.
(43:25):
I do think taking acting classesis very beneficial.
Most of the writers I know who have acted or have taken writing
acting classes have a much easier time writing dialogue and
knowing if the dialogue sounds like something someone would say
and if it's deliverable. So I do think that's an under
(43:45):
given piece of advice. Like don't, don't take it 'cause
you also want to be an actor. I mean, if you do, awesome.
But I think it's getting to knowall parts of how things are
made. Like make a short film so that
you know what, how what you've written is going to translate on
the screen. Really get to know.
Yeah. I mean, you're, you're creating
the kernel of this giant enterprise.
(44:08):
The more you can understand how what you're writing is going to
be able to be brought to life ornot be able to be brought to
life is really important. I also, for me, having not gone
to film school and I don't even know if this is a thing anymore,
I used to watch every director or writers commentary on DVD
that I could get my hands on. I remember one of the best ones
(44:29):
was for Pirates of the Caribbean.
They had all three writers, theyall talked about like what they
contributed to each draft and how other people, you know, how
the other writer had this. And so I think just sort of
seeing the things you like and, and also, I think early on,
don't be afraid to emulate the things you like.
Like if you're making a cake, you can take a couple things
(44:51):
from a bunch of different recipes and combine them.
And that's not stealing. That's being influenced by the
things that matter to you. And then the last thing, which
was the most important is just right.
A mediocre idea that's finished is better than an amazing idea
you can only tell somebody aboutat a party.
(45:14):
Well, I think that's a pretty good point to we've landed at
our last question. What is one thing you wish you'd
go back and tell your younger self?
Don't forget to have a life. This isn't everything and the
more well-rounded the rest of your life is, the better this
(45:34):
job will be and the more you'll have to bring to it, both as an
actor, a writer, director. When I met my wife, I think I
thought that my career was the thing that would define me.
And I love my job, but being my kids dad and my wife's husband
is the thing that defines me. And my career is the thing that
(45:55):
I get to do for fun. And I'm very lucky.
So yeah, live your life, have fun.
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us
on What's My Frame and sharing your creativity and your
process, but also the projects that you're creating that we get
to enjoy as an audience member as well.
It was my pleasure. Hi everyone, thanks for
(46:15):
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame to Stay in the Know for upcoming events, I'm your host,
Laurie Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.