November 10, 2025 • 46 mins
Today on What's My Frame I'm joined by writer-director and podcaster GG Hawkins. Her directorial debut I Really Love My Husband had its world premiere at the 2025 SXSW festival. Today we talk about specificity of chemistry, GG's writing and creative process, the importance of finding the right educators and creative mentors for you finding your super power as a creative.
GG is also known for hosting and producing the popular podcast “No Film School” where she interviews filmmakers in all departments to help educate filmmakers globally…”No Film School” required.
GG directed the short Yes, Daddy, which has 7 million views on YouTube. She also wrote and directed G.U.F., an episode of You Feeling This?, which premiered at Tribeca in 2023. She received the Channie Award for Best Directing for her web series Kinda Flakey. Her short film An Aspirational Space was awarded the Robert De Niro Scholarship. She is a fellow of the Film Independent Episodic Lab and the Moonshot Initiative Pilot Accelerator.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hi everyone. Today and once My frame, I'm
junior writer, director and podcaster Gigi Hawkins.
Her directorial debut, I really love my Husband had its world
premiere at the 2025 South by Southwest Festival.
Today we talk about specificity of chemistry, Gigi's writing and
creative process, the importanceof finding the right educators
and creative mentors for you, and finding your superpower as a
(00:24):
creative. Now let's get to the
conversation. Hey Gigi, welcome to What's My
Frame? How you doing?
Good. Thank you so much for having me,
Laura. Thank you for making the time to
chat. I'm very excited to have a
female filmmaker and a fellow podcaster on the pod today.
We have we have lots to talk about, but if you don't mind,
(00:46):
for anyone who's not familiar, could you just start us out with
your creative back story? What it was about the arts that
drew you to this being your life's mission and purpose.
Sure. Well, I had a bit of a winding
path to get to this point. I, you know, grew up watching
Shirley Temple movies and was very into, you know, playing
(01:09):
pretend. And I look back at home videos
and even how I used to like direct my friends.
I had a lot of opinions. I was a total ham.
I there's a joke with my oldest friend, Nicole Wilberdean, that
if we were at my house, I'd be like, OK, you be the boy and
I'll be the girl because I'm it's my house.
And then when I I was at her house, I'd be like, OK, you be
(01:29):
the boy and I'd be the girl because I'm the guest.
So I clearly had a vision for how I wanted things to unfold
and did theater in high school and also wrote for the school
newspaper. So like always was interested in
sort of storytelling. But very soon after, I really
(01:50):
counted myself out as a creative.
I didn't think I was funny enough or talented enough, So I
went down a pathway in college studying education and history,
thinking like, you know, oh, I could be a teacher.
Like I, I ended up teaching 10thgrade U.S. history in Michigan
and, and I was, what I realized is I was just showing a lot of,
(02:18):
I realized that I actually likedmovies.
I was like showing Band of Brothers and, and Saving Private
Ryan and really just like wantedpeople to feel things based off
of stories. I maybe, maybe it goes back to
my Shirley Temple roots that I was interested in the history
element. But so I thought that I would,
you know, move to LA be APA workmy way up.
(02:40):
I accidentally got a job workingat Google, working in San
Francisco in tech as I was living at my mom's and saving up
money to move to LA. And that sent me on a whole
other trajectory into my late 20s working in AD sales.
I kept sort of like falling up in that career.
(03:00):
I was essentially a Pete Campbell from Mad Men winning
and dining clients. And I was moving closer and
closer to, you know, narrative within that space, branded
podcasts and a whole bunch of other different ways to activate
in that space. But it wasn't until I was 27
(03:23):
years old and I looked around and I had the title that you
have till you retire if you wantin that career.
And I was like, wow, everything is great on paper.
Why am I still sad? And then I really just gave
myself permission for the first time ever in my life to actively
pursue what I think I wanted to do, which I knew was something
(03:45):
around film and TV. And I started to take writing
classes and I wrote a screenplayand I wrote a pilot.
And then I made my first short film, and that was, and I
directed it. And that feeling of directing
after, you know, two days of shooting and then going through
the entire post process, I, I was like, oh, this is the
(04:07):
feeling that's missing. So that's what sort of set me on
my official creative journey. And it was a very humbling
journey. You know, my whole career and
all of my success had been builtaround selling people in on an
idea and figuring out how to do it later.
Yeah, but that doesn't really work with film.
(04:27):
Like you really have to know thestory and work it at the script
stage. And I I'm grateful for the time
that the pandemic carved out forus to really slow down because
it forced me to really start from the beginning.
And, and once I got to this place where I was like taking
(04:48):
the pressure off myself, I had good, I, I did my first short
was pretty good for our first short, but my second short was
I'd gone through the motions of directing, but I don't think I
fully understood how to do it. And it was a big learning
lesson. But then during the pandemic I
(05:08):
got all that footage back, reverse engineered a totally
different story from the footageand went from like a 15 minute
couple breaks up story to a 6 minute literally using every
frame from the footage. It turned into 6 minutes.
Dog is adopted, thinks he's beenkidnapped.
Dark comedy like Taken meets rescue.
(05:28):
And I learned how to edit and that was when I really felt
like, OK, I am grasping the language of film and story it at
a new level. From that point on, I started
making sketches and shorts and, and really took the pressure off
like I was doing it for pennies and with whoever would want to
make something with me. And that's where I started to
(05:50):
find like my core creative collaborators, including my
first feature film, which I'm sure we'll touch on.
The lead is Madison Lanessy, who's an actor writer, and she
just directed her first short. She's somebody that I worked
with, Ryan Thomas, RDP somebody that I had worked with making a
bunch of sketches and shorts. And and by the time I was really
(06:15):
betting on myself taking a a second big leap, which is to
make a feature, I had this groupof people around me that I
really was inspired by and excited to work with.
So that has led me to this very moment it.
Was so interesting when you you said you gave yourself
permission and I think that that's something which you know,
(06:38):
you have a very strong female voice in your your writing and
your directing and the stories that you pursue.
And I think it's something that is very female specific because
men don't ask for permission, but females, especially the
millennial and Gen. Z and like the generations
coming up, they are better to togive themselves permission
quicker, but it's still kind of a a barrier that they have to
(06:58):
cross. And I'm curious, having reached
that level of success at Google and having a whole career that
you're really is, it's just it'spaved Rd. in front of you to
then start very much it, it's square one.
What was that mentally like for you personally and how did that
affect your creativity? Yeah, I feel very fortunate that
(07:21):
I started taking improv classes in my early 20s and learned to
fail publicly early on, and alsolearned that if I failed, I
wouldn't die, which I think is like a survival instinct that
prevents a lot of people from taking risk.
And two things happened very early on in my career.
(07:44):
The 1st is I had just moved to New York with a Google YouTube
team and about six months into that experience, a woman from
the Wall Street Journal had met her through a friend.
We totally hit it off. She was like, come work for my
team at the Journal and I was like, I don't know anything
(08:04):
about this. My dad reads the Journal and one
she, Joanna Mayor Jones, who is now a mentor of mine and
somebody that I really look up to, had opened this door for me.
And then as I was making my way out of Google, another mentor,
Brian Ruiz. He said he basically gave me
(08:27):
some very specific tools to negotiate that bridge into the
next part of my career. And and so while the world was
telling me and my family was telling me I'm crazy for leaving
Google, that's the best place towork, quote UN quote, I was
totally drinking the kool-aid when I was there.
(08:49):
Brian was like, you should go and also this is how you should
negotiate. And it was such a gift because
it really levelled up my career.And then on the flip side, I was
then after a very short time actually working in the ad sales
space at at Google because I wasactually started on a customer
support team. Over the course of a year, I had
(09:11):
this crash course in like the entire advertising industry,
which is also this world where your relationships are
everything and it is a numbers game of connecting with people,
as as many people as possible and only some of those things
will hit and so much of it is out of your control.
So I was so grateful for that time and to have Joanna Mayor
(09:36):
Jones as a mentor, teaching me how to put myself out there
constantly and not be, I do think I am like a, you know, a
gentle heart person. And it's a blessing and a curse
because my heart will be broken by, like, silly things like, you
know, an ad campaign going wrongincorrectly.
And I've let down this client who I now have a relationship
(09:58):
with. And you know, Joe would find me
crying in a phone room and she'slike, it's OK, Like it's going
to be OK. But that's all to say that I'm,
I'm really grateful for the factthat my early 20s and my mid
20s, I was in a different industry because I think as a
woman who was learn strategically to go through the
(10:21):
actions of what would a man do? And I started asking that
question to myself and then justdoing it and not overthinking it
and being like, I have nothing to lose.
I could always go back to Google, I guess, like that's on
my resume. But on the flip side, I, I'm
glad that I went through this like rigmarole very early on
outside of the film industry because I think if I had gone
(10:41):
right to LA and started to work as a PA, I would have been eaten
alive because I was, I'm a sensitive soul and like, that's
like somebody that's so important to my work now as an
artist. Yeah, Now we're going to talk
more about your podcast, No filmschool in just a bit, but I'm
curious on a personal level how you found the right teachers and
(11:06):
educational programs and things like that.
Because obviously, like that's why we started our podcast as
well as because of, you know, lowering that barrier for entry
for education and spotlighting who, you know, I feel are
powerful voices in the space. Because as someone who has
experienced teachers who punch down to shape clay the way that
(11:27):
they want to and not finding that productive, for me
personally, I always like to talk about that and and see how
you found who amplified your voice and guided it in the right
way for you. Yeah, it's such a great
question. And I think when you're learning
in this industry, like specifically in film, because it
(11:49):
is film business like there and there are naturally it attracts
very specific personalities, butalso forces you to be
vulnerable. It's really, there are some
really toxic players out there. And and this isn't exactly
(12:10):
apples to apples, but I remembera moment when I was in the UCB
curriculum at in New York and there was a teacher, a four O 1
teacher who who was punching down in a way and dismissing
this entire group in a way that like in in looking back at it
(12:34):
now, I'm like, oh, I think he was like a really sad man.
And to be in comedy like that also attracts a very specific
type of person. And I almost quit improv
outright. And that was like my one time to
play and and be creative outsideof my corporate career.
(12:56):
But I felt so bad. I felt so bad about myself.
And then I dipped my toe back inwith this teacher, this
improviser, who you may know hisname because now he he just won
an Emmy this year. But Jeff Hiller, are you
familiar? Yes, yes, he taught this
character class in and it was sort of like an offshoot of the
(13:22):
typical rigmarole. And he taught this class and he
was so kind and so warm and so encouraging of people.
And I'm actually like getting emotional because it's such a
powerful thing to be that open warmth to people and to lead
with warmth and strength and lift people up.
(13:44):
And it's as we know, it's incredibly vulnerable to be
putting yourself out there. But he was somebody that, and,
and I don't know him that well. Like I've emailed him a couple
of times and and seen a couple shows of his, but he was
somebody that like showed that you can be kind and warm in this
(14:04):
space and lift people up and like still be cool and and it
sounds fun. One O 1 exactly and then
successful then win an Emmy. So there's it's the opposite of
is it short and fraud where it'slike joy in other people's
discomfort or pain. It's like this is like I feel
the opposite. I feel so much so thrilled that
(14:28):
he is getting the success that he's gotten.
And then I remember there's one other improviser teacher named
Zach Willis who also created a really safe space for play.
And I think you can't really be creative if you're in a survival
mode. And then and so that's like a
very, those are two stark examples of like the power of
(14:53):
lifting people up and play and leading with kindness and how
detrimental like, you know, a mentor who mentor, quote, UN
quote or somebody in a powerful position can be.
Then in over the course of my career, you know, being a writer
(15:17):
director, which, you know, I still even have a little
imposter syndrome about it because I've only been paid to
write and direct like one podcast and one little spot for
MasterCard that like, you know, got cut up for social.
So, but but you have to like declare that this is what you
(15:38):
are and, and prove to people. And I have a bit of like, I'm
driven by that. I'm like, I want to show people
that I am this. So I'm thinking about like
teachers that have been impactful.
And I, I love creating a space to learn because I love
(16:00):
deadlines. I'm, I love being curious about
how to like, I think there's so much goodness to, to gain from a
great class. So I'm trying to think of like
the, the mentors and the people who have lifted me up and I'll,
(16:20):
I'll shout out a director named Chris McKay, who he, I
interviewed him on the no film school podcast.
He directed Renfield and Lego Batman and very different from
like my, what I create. He said, if you ever need
anything, let me know. And and then eventually I was
(16:40):
like, I think I need like a festival fairy godparent for my
movie. And I got on a call with him and
he's like, I've been out of the festival game for so long.
But I, I watched the a bit of your movie and there's this one
director who I think would be great.
And I'm not going to name her because I don't know if it's
(17:01):
public information, but he lovedthis director so much.
He went and saw her movies like twice in theaters.
And then he was like, I don't know her personally, but I'm
going to have my team reach out to her team and see if she'll
talk. And that was one of like the
kindest things that somebody cando.
And he didn't really owe me anything.
Like I talked to him for 45 minutes about his movie.
(17:23):
So anyway, there's been these like little guardian Angel
moments coming out of South by Ididn't even really get to hang
out with these directors there. But Annapurna, the director,
writer and star of Fuck toys andAlex, the director and writer of
satisfaction. There's been this like really
refreshing group of like, I can text them and gut check things
(17:48):
and, and we kind of like finished South by and then we
did a podcast together, but we were all like, Oh my God, we did
it. How are you?
Are you OK? And there was this like
camaraderie that I've never feltbefore, where like the
experience of making a film is so all like intense and, and,
(18:09):
and take so much out of you to see somebody, to see two other
women and many other people. But like two women who have made
something that is, that are so true to their own voices and
against all odds and still be fighting you even after a
festival. You have to be fighting for your
movie. I was so inspired.
So like, I don't know if that's mentorship, but something
(18:31):
somewhere between mentorship andpure like camaraderie.
Oh, and I appreciate that openness to talk about that
because I think it's so important for us to have those
conversations because I think asactors, I mean, that's the main
side that I come from. And we're constantly being sold
on things and there are resume lines to fill that we are told
(18:53):
that will check whatever box to then succeed to the next, you
know, room in the maze. And if it's not the right fit
for you personally and they don't get you and they don't
amplify you and you feel like it's a success or failure or
you're trying to be approved in some way, that's not where your
creativity thrives. And that's why I always try to
talk about this because it's, I think it's just so important
(19:16):
that you find the people that build up your creative ways
because that's why we started. This is because everyone is
unique. Jumping off of that, a common
thread in your work that is uniquely you is exploring the
dark side of the female experience, and I'm curious what
was the driving force or personal connection to go in
that direction with your writingand directing and the projects
(19:37):
you're drawn to. I don't know if it was ever
anything I was aware of. I just sort of have always been
drawn to like the weirdness, thedarkness inside of ourselves
and, and in a way, like I think it's fascinating and funny and
(20:00):
weird and heartbreaking all at the same time.
So I've generally tried to just pursue my bliss with like, and
my taste in my voice and, and really hone in on that.
It's fascinating because I do feel like.
(20:20):
Having the workout in the world and there are some projects that
I've just directed and some thatI've written and directed see
and some that I've, you know, developed with actors.
It's always really the best experiences when like women come
to me or the team and say, holy shit, I've never seen, I've
(20:45):
never felt so seen or that is me.
And yeah, so I, I, I think once I started to do that and, and
like, stop trying to conform to what felt, what would be good
or, or funny or right and just followed my bliss, that's when
(21:06):
things started to pop off with, you know, an acknowledgement of
like structure and story are really important.
But like, I don't know the work sometimes as you iterate and I'm
really big into constant feedback at in the writing
phase, in the editing phase, it really presents itself if I'm
(21:30):
working it, you know? Well, going off of that, like
how, how do you find the people that you trust to give you
feedback on your work? Because that's a big challenge
for some people to be that levelof vulnerable with something
that they love so much. And but also, you don't want to
just get your flowers and be told it's great.
(21:50):
It's, it's so interesting. I, I definitely don't want gold
stars. And, and sometimes I feel like I
get that and I'm like this, well, this isn't helpful because
I still know something is wrong,like in my gut.
And then sometimes I'll get feedback, like somebody gave me
feedback. A professor of mine of the film
(22:10):
school that I dropped out of gave me feedback on my feature
and said, this isn't working. You're going to have to cut it
to be an experimental short. And I'm like, I've pressure
tested this with a lot of audiences.
I know, I know that it's working.
So I actually like, know in my gut that this feedback isn't
working for me. Helpful I appreciate the time
(22:33):
but like being able to be OK with knowing when something is
is just it is like a taste thingor or or you know a different
type type of taste I guess is what I'm what I'm trying to say.
But the best, I mean, I also love getting feedback constantly
(22:56):
because it unlocks things like somebody reacting to something
and reacting in a way that's notas I I intended.
Then that's information that's so helpful or thinking, you
know, for example, the lead in my movie, if they're like, you
know, not on board with who she is upfront, then there's an
issue there. So there's a lot of processing
(23:20):
information, receiving data, processing it and then sitting
with it. And then like sometimes just
being really patient with it. I will, it's been interesting.
I've given feedback recently to somebody who then started to
critique me in my feedback and it was like, wow, like this is
(23:43):
so it was, it was like a shock to the system because I was
like, you know, it's not a big, it's a tall ask to give feedback
on a feature and or a script. And so no matter what, like even
if the feedback is cut your feature into a short, this isn't
working. I'm all, I'm still like, wow,
(24:03):
thank you so much for taking thetime to do this because that
it's OK if our taste is not the same.
And I'm so grateful for all the people along the way, friends,
people from writing groups like Strangers for No Film School
listeners who have taken the time to give feedback on my
work. And that's really special.
Now, when you're approaching a new idea or project, what is
(24:24):
your creative process and outline like?
I used to avoid outlining and now I'm like, I have to do it
right now I'm in the process of coming up with like a couple of
big picture ideas and then I'm going to workshop that with a, a
screenwriter, director friend. And then I'm going to take it to
(24:45):
my managers and workshop a couple of those ideas.
I have some high concept ideas, but I'm very intimidated by the
idea of writing like a traditional movie movie because
I don't know, I, I think I'd getin my head and, and I also do
(25:05):
like to work with like writing coaches because it's like a
personal trainer for your writing where it's like, OK, I'm
going to, I have to give Pilar, try not to Pilar Alessandra, the
1st 25 pages by Wednesday so shecan give me feedback by Friday.
Like I have to do it. I'm paying her to do it.
So that's a little bit of accountability for me too.
(25:26):
Now, when you're both wearing writer and director hats like
on, I really love my husband. How does balancing those
responsibilities work for you? I see them just completely hand
in hand. You know, you can't separate the
writing from the directing. They are, they are.
(25:48):
And I have directed something that someone else has written
and I've Co written things that I've directed.
But it really, you know, there it's so ingrained and I'm a huge
believer in doing as much preparation as possible so you
can be flexible on the day. So by the time we're getting to
set, I will have or and with. I really love my husband.
(26:10):
Not only did I workshop the entire script with the actors to
make it feel right in their voice and do multiple table
reads and revised and revised and revised a million times, but
I've usually, especially for anylike critical scene, I've
rehearsed with the actors. I know the blocking.
(26:32):
I've like worked with the DP to design overheads and shot lists.
Like, I know why and where the camera is, where it's going to
be and how we're going to shoot it.
That could all go away based offof where we are at or if we have
to change locations or it's raining outside.
But I think that my job as the director is to be prepared and
(26:54):
also understand how to ultimately translate what is
written on the page into performances that work and then
capturing it in a way that also like lends itself to the story.
I, I genuinely believe the directing segment of this entire
experience, like 90% of of that is casting because you can't,
(27:19):
you can do a lot of magic in post, but editing around
performance is the you do not want to be in that situation.
And great actors are like the most valuable thing for a movie.
Because you were casting virtually and then, you know,
(27:40):
I'm assuming rehearsals were more in the room.
Or did you do virtual rehearsalswith your actors?
So I wrote the script for Madison and we did a lot of
development together along with Scott Monahan, who was
originally going to play Drew. And we got to the point where we
had to cast the character of Pause, who is the person that
(28:05):
this couple on their honeymoon decides to seduce?
The Airbnb rental host who's loosely based off of my stepdad
who lived on that island in Panama for 16 years.
And we were having trouble just from self submissions, finding
somebody who, you know, it was believable that they would be an
expat living on this island, always barefoot, always smiling,
(28:26):
like living this totally radicalway of life compared to, you
know, our main characters. And and they also had to have
chemistry with everyone. And so we ended up bringing on a
casting director and we did a ton of in person chemistry
reads. Then we had to recast Drew.
(28:47):
So then we did a whole other round of casting Druze.
And I was really nervous becauseI had like, you know, written
the part for Scott. Then we did like chemistry reads
with probably like 20 Drews in person.
Then we did a, you know, anotherround and then our final in
person chemistry reads. And ironically, I, the first
(29:13):
tape I saw where I was like, oh,we'll find a Drew.
We ended up having like many different options, but it was
that first guy I saw Travis Quinton Young, who ended up
being Drew and, and it was all based off of like he's the, the
chemistry and the specificity ofthe chemistry because there were
(29:34):
different chemistry's. It was like there was a
chemistry where Teresa would be just the bad guy because this
guy's so good. And there was something, there
was like something complex aboutTravis.
There's a darkness to him that was paired with this sweetness
that was so important for Drew. There was kind of like a bro ear
(29:54):
Drew. There was.
But then I remember we did the the sides and then I had them
sort of take the sides and put it into the context of a
different scene. And there were.
And it's this moment where Teresa's coming home drunk and
she climbs on top of Drew and islike trying to seduce him and he
(30:16):
smells the tequila on her. And he and like Travis did this
thing where he like didn't want to look away from her, but his
whole body was sinking away. And I was like, that is so true
to Drew. And and it's why he got the
role. Like it was him being present in
that moment and having a really true to Drew reaction that was
(30:37):
like, so amazing. What was the original sparker
jumping off point for the film? I was taking a class at the
Gotham called a Micro Budget producing.
And the big take away for that course was look at what you
already have access to and, and now write something for that,
(30:59):
like that's your superpower. And I knew I had two things.
One, this location in Panama that we were only going to have
till the end of the year. My my stepdad built that house.
My parents were married in frontof it.
They rented it out as an income stream and they were trying to
sell it for 11 years. And I was like, wait, put the
brakes on it. Like, can you, can I shoot
something there before we go? And then on the other side, it
(31:23):
was this group of people that I had made shorts and sketches
with. Ryan Thomas, RDP, Madison, Lana,
see who plays Teresa. Christina O'Sullivan, our
editor. And yeah, so that that was I I
called everyone up and I was like, hey, it's May 2023.
(31:44):
We had till October to finish because it was about to be the
rainy season and we were losing the location and I said do you
guys want to make a movie in Panama?
It's going to be a micro budget mumblecore thing.
And they all said yes. And then I started writing the
script. What were the the goals that you
(32:05):
had are markers for yourself heading into filming of both on
a personal and professional level taking on this challenge?
Well, it came from a place of like pressure on myself.
I, I, I'm now 34 and married andwant to have kids and I am late
(32:28):
to this career, but I am learning that this career is, I
think, a career for people who stick with it and grow wise and
mature. But I just felt like I need to
take a big swing now. And that was sort of the
underlying a little bit of fear,a little bit of like every time
(32:51):
I've taken a big scary leap, it's worked out in a way that I
didn't expect. And then my main goal with the
film was like, I want to be ableto make another one after this.
I did see it as like a great experiment.
I didn't want to be posting on social media about it.
We were pretty quiet about it because I didn't want that
(33:16):
pressure. It still came.
But I also, you know, thought this might not lead to anything.
It's possible nobody will ever see this.
I and it let me almost stay present in the movie, like
present for the team, present for what it needed immediately.
(33:37):
And yeah, that was, I'm glad that I was able to.
Of course I wanted it to succeed.
But I I've kept my expectations very low this whole time.
Yeah. Do you have a favorite scene or
day on set? Oh gosh, my favorite scene is
Secret Island. It's sort of like it's the
(33:59):
climax of the movie. And I just love the
performances. I am so moved by how honest all
the actors are on that on that scene on that day.
And it was like a a pretty like in I think we were very
prepared, but you never know howit's going to go.
(34:23):
And there there was a lot of. I remember taking the boat over
to get to this island, which wasacross the way, and seeing
dolphins on the way over. And I was like, oh, my God, the
film gods are watching over us. Yeah, just in the movie.
I love that scene. And then Favorite Day, I don't
(34:44):
know, it was such a whirlwind. It wasn't easy.
But I do feel like there was a lot of excitement and joy
happening with the cast and crewthat I don't know if I was 100%
feeling that because I was a little all over the place,
(35:06):
holding it all together, holdingparts of it together, working
with the team. But I, I, it was really fun to
bring. Like I, it felt special to bring
people to Panama, which is this place that I grew up going to
and I didn't realize it because I also, you know, have all my
life gone to Costa Rica and Panama because my grandparents
lived in Costa Rica and that my mom married Peter, my stepdad,
(35:28):
when I was in middle school. So like, this is my equivalent
of, you know, family vacation orgoing to grandma's house.
And I was surprised at how I think I'm spoiled by how that
the beauty of that part of the world.
And I, so I, I think I didn't realize how much people would be
(35:49):
like, what is this place? Like we're on an island with no
roads that has like restaurants that we can walk to.
And the great part about bogus Del Toro, Panama is like
everyone vaca, like foreigners vacation there, Panamanian's
vacation there. They go to the same bars that
the locals go to. And it's like kind of the only
(36:09):
place in the world that I've been to that is so integrated
because it's so it's so beautiful and it's a really
special place. Now you all had your premiere at
South by you touched on you needed like a a festival of
fairy godmother. I love that yes, but what was
that? What was that journey and
experience and the nerves and all of that like?
(36:30):
Yeah, the getting into South by we always said we're like this
is a South by film. This is a South by film.
But like, it was no guarantee. You know, we I am not a name.
The actors are not quote UN quote named talent, which I I'm
that it makes my blood boil because that is something that
(36:53):
the industry like really puts such an emphasis on.
And you know, for example, we were, I had dinner with my
distributor yesterday and he's like, yeah, we heard back said
they didn't want to watch it because there were no, there
were no stars. And it's like all of these
people are going to be stars. They're so freaking talented.
(37:13):
So it was still like a, in some ways a battle to be seen and
considered. But the South by programming
team did a really like great jobsupporting the film makers and
making us feel like informed andclear on what we needed to do.
(37:34):
We worked with Fonz PR, which was is something that is like
you have to do that. If you're at a buyer's festival,
you have to work with PR. The work that that that those
folks do is like mission critical.
And I don't think a lot of film makers realize how how important
it is to have existing relationships and that people
(37:59):
spend year PR people spend yearsdeveloping those relationships
and help you navigate that. So I felt very lucky to have
like the Fonz PR team supportingus and teaching us and answering
my crazy questions. We also had a sales Rep, Glenn
Reynolds, who also constantly answered my crazy like just one
(38:22):
O 1 questions. And I think as a creative, like
the more you know and the if youcan stay curious about things
that can be scary, like will somebody just buy my movie or
whatever, Then it takes the fearout of it.
And you can be informed and learn and and be empowered in
that experience. And then, you know, seeing it
(38:45):
with audiences where complete strangers liked the movie.
My favorite letterbox review is like a guy who's like, I
couldn't get into another screening, so I just went to
this one and it's my favorite movie at the festival.
And that is like, I mean, the that's, I don't know what that
(39:05):
it would be called 'cause it's not a Gold Star.
It's like a gift. And yeah, so, so very, very
wonderful. And but you can't really rest at
South by at least in the beginning.
It's like you're the bride and you have to be on.
(39:25):
And I did stay till the end. I actually did a whole, you
know, film school podcast episode about this.
But staying till the end, I actually got to see movies and
hang out with people and rest. So many film makers don't put
the energy into getting their movie out there that they should
(39:46):
and they're selling themselves in the movie short.
So think about it this way. Like a Ryan Gosling action movie
costs 50 million and then they take usually like half of that
budget so another 25,000,000 to market the movie it.
If that's how much energy that they're putting into market an
(40:08):
action movie with Ryan Gosling, what why are we as indie film
makers, like precluded from thateffort?
So I, I don't even think we've done an amazing job, but we do
have an amazing intern named Verena who's at Chapman, who's
taken over our social media, which has been so helpful 'cause
(40:29):
I was doing running that and we've had, you know, our two PR
teams. So that has been important.
But I think throughout this entire process, there have been
a few moments where there have been like that sort of red flag
gut feeling coming up. And I've only acted on it one
(40:53):
time. And that was like, we had a
partner that it wasn't working out with just in this sort of
distribution phase. And it wasn't our just, it was,
it was somebody that we brought on to help and it, and there was
like it just wasn't working on afundamental EQ level.
And I was like, I think we pay this person for what they did
and I think we move on. And I'm really proud of myself
(41:14):
for listening to that cuz there are a couple points along the
way where I silenced that gut feeling and now I'm like, it's
so much better to, you know, hire slowly and fire quickly.
What was the inspiration for your podcast No Film School?
Yeah, so the No Film School podcast has actually been around
(41:34):
for like 10 years almost. And I found it when I was 27,
thinking I maybe wanted to be a filmmaker and started listening
to it. And then I went to film school
for a year and one of the professors was one of the hosts
of the show. We tried to pitch a podcast
(41:55):
about labor issues in the film industry.
Nobody wanted to cover the costsof it.
So he's like, just come on the No Film School Podcast.
So I started to come on just as a guest and eventually was like,
OK, I've been on a couple times.Like do you think I could get
paid? And then there was some
downsizing that was happening. And so I got upgraded to being
(42:19):
the, the lead host. And I just tried to approach it
as the as earnestly and, and truthfully as possible, like
asking the questions that I wishI had asked in the beginning,
asking the questions that are relevant to me now.
(42:41):
And I have the privilege of talking to incredible film
makers at all stages, you know, actors who are directing.
I've spoken with Ray Romano and Eva Longoria and film makers who
have been just so influential inmy life, James Mangold, Benny
Safdie, and then a lot of like folks in positions that are
(43:07):
outside of the, the, the limelight, if you will, so
editors or DPS. And I think that, you know, as
film makers, the more we learn about other people's processes
and how they explore their creativity and specifically work
in creative collaboration, we wereally like just stand to gain
(43:33):
better experiences, figure out how to make movies in ways that
are ethical and kind. I'm very much a work in progress
that's actually like a feature of my newsletter is like talking
about projects as we're making them and like how we can learn
from that because it's so often that we only hear from people at
(43:56):
the very end of the journey whenit's there's a lot of rose
colored glass happening. So I like to get into the real
of it all. Do you have a favorite episode
or conversation that you've beenable to share with your
listeners? I love my interview with Kelly
Freeman Craig, who directed Are You There God?
It's me, Margaret. And again, like somebody who's
(44:19):
leading with like strength and warmth, Dean Fleischer camp who
directed Marcel the Shell and the new Lilo and Stitch like
also very honest about the process of like developing
authentically and acknowledging like animation hybrid that just
hasn't felt good in the past. And I'm like, let's, I really
(44:43):
just appreciate it when people are keeping it real.
As we wind down, is there any advice or encouragement or
resources that have benefited orsupported you or your community
that you would want to share here with the listeners?
I definitely think you have to green light yourself and give
yourself permission. Nobody's going to give it to
(45:04):
you. IA resource that I found really
helpful is the work in progress section of my newsletter where I
interview people as they're making their micro budget films.
So the newsletter is called making it.
You can get it on my website gigihawkins.com.
But I really like, I do like thelike in the process experience
(45:31):
because, you know, it can feel really lonely to make a film,
but like there's a there's a lotof us who and I and I just like
really respect the the hustle when people are continuing to
put themselves out there. We close every episode the same
way. What is one thing you wish you'd
go back and tell your younger self?
Oh, I love that you are enough. JJ, thank you so much for
(45:56):
joining us on the pod today. Thank you, Laura, it was so nice
to meet you. Hi everyone, thanks for
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
events, I'm your host, Laura Linda Bradley.
(46:17):
We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone. Today and once My frame, I'm
junior writer, director and podcaster Gigi Hawkins.
Her directorial debut, I really love my Husband had its world
premiere at the 2025 South by Southwest Festival.
Today we talk about specificity of chemistry, Gigi's writing and
creative process, the importanceof finding the right educators
and creative mentors for you, and finding your superpower as a
(00:24):
creative. Now let's get to the
conversation. Hey Gigi, welcome to What's My
Frame? How you doing?
Good. Thank you so much for having me,
Laura. Thank you for making the time to
chat. I'm very excited to have a
female filmmaker and a fellow podcaster on the pod today.
We have we have lots to talk about, but if you don't mind,
(00:46):
for anyone who's not familiar, could you just start us out with
your creative back story? What it was about the arts that
drew you to this being your life's mission and purpose.
Sure. Well, I had a bit of a winding
path to get to this point. I, you know, grew up watching
Shirley Temple movies and was very into, you know, playing
(01:09):
pretend. And I look back at home videos
and even how I used to like direct my friends.
I had a lot of opinions. I was a total ham.
I there's a joke with my oldest friend, Nicole Wilberdean, that
if we were at my house, I'd be like, OK, you be the boy and
I'll be the girl because I'm it's my house.
And then when I I was at her house, I'd be like, OK, you be
(01:29):
the boy and I'd be the girl because I'm the guest.
So I clearly had a vision for how I wanted things to unfold
and did theater in high school and also wrote for the school
newspaper. So like always was interested in
sort of storytelling. But very soon after, I really
(01:50):
counted myself out as a creative.
I didn't think I was funny enough or talented enough, So I
went down a pathway in college studying education and history,
thinking like, you know, oh, I could be a teacher.
Like I, I ended up teaching 10thgrade U.S. history in Michigan
and, and I was, what I realized is I was just showing a lot of,
(02:18):
I realized that I actually likedmovies.
I was like showing Band of Brothers and, and Saving Private
Ryan and really just like wantedpeople to feel things based off
of stories. I maybe, maybe it goes back to
my Shirley Temple roots that I was interested in the history
element. But so I thought that I would,
you know, move to LA be APA workmy way up.
(02:40):
I accidentally got a job workingat Google, working in San
Francisco in tech as I was living at my mom's and saving up
money to move to LA. And that sent me on a whole
other trajectory into my late 20s working in AD sales.
I kept sort of like falling up in that career.
(03:00):
I was essentially a Pete Campbell from Mad Men winning
and dining clients. And I was moving closer and
closer to, you know, narrative within that space, branded
podcasts and a whole bunch of other different ways to activate
in that space. But it wasn't until I was 27
(03:23):
years old and I looked around and I had the title that you
have till you retire if you wantin that career.
And I was like, wow, everything is great on paper.
Why am I still sad? And then I really just gave
myself permission for the first time ever in my life to actively
pursue what I think I wanted to do, which I knew was something
(03:45):
around film and TV. And I started to take writing
classes and I wrote a screenplayand I wrote a pilot.
And then I made my first short film, and that was, and I
directed it. And that feeling of directing
after, you know, two days of shooting and then going through
the entire post process, I, I was like, oh, this is the
(04:07):
feeling that's missing. So that's what sort of set me on
my official creative journey. And it was a very humbling
journey. You know, my whole career and
all of my success had been builtaround selling people in on an
idea and figuring out how to do it later.
Yeah, but that doesn't really work with film.
(04:27):
Like you really have to know thestory and work it at the script
stage. And I I'm grateful for the time
that the pandemic carved out forus to really slow down because
it forced me to really start from the beginning.
And, and once I got to this place where I was like taking
(04:48):
the pressure off myself, I had good, I, I did my first short
was pretty good for our first short, but my second short was
I'd gone through the motions of directing, but I don't think I
fully understood how to do it. And it was a big learning
lesson. But then during the pandemic I
(05:08):
got all that footage back, reverse engineered a totally
different story from the footageand went from like a 15 minute
couple breaks up story to a 6 minute literally using every
frame from the footage. It turned into 6 minutes.
Dog is adopted, thinks he's beenkidnapped.
Dark comedy like Taken meets rescue.
(05:28):
And I learned how to edit and that was when I really felt
like, OK, I am grasping the language of film and story it at
a new level. From that point on, I started
making sketches and shorts and, and really took the pressure off
like I was doing it for pennies and with whoever would want to
make something with me. And that's where I started to
(05:50):
find like my core creative collaborators, including my
first feature film, which I'm sure we'll touch on.
The lead is Madison Lanessy, who's an actor writer, and she
just directed her first short. She's somebody that I worked
with, Ryan Thomas, RDP somebody that I had worked with making a
bunch of sketches and shorts. And and by the time I was really
(06:15):
betting on myself taking a a second big leap, which is to
make a feature, I had this groupof people around me that I
really was inspired by and excited to work with.
So that has led me to this very moment it.
Was so interesting when you you said you gave yourself
permission and I think that that's something which you know,
(06:38):
you have a very strong female voice in your your writing and
your directing and the stories that you pursue.
And I think it's something that is very female specific because
men don't ask for permission, but females, especially the
millennial and Gen. Z and like the generations
coming up, they are better to togive themselves permission
quicker, but it's still kind of a a barrier that they have to
(06:58):
cross. And I'm curious, having reached
that level of success at Google and having a whole career that
you're really is, it's just it'spaved Rd. in front of you to
then start very much it, it's square one.
What was that mentally like for you personally and how did that
affect your creativity? Yeah, I feel very fortunate that
(07:21):
I started taking improv classes in my early 20s and learned to
fail publicly early on, and alsolearned that if I failed, I
wouldn't die, which I think is like a survival instinct that
prevents a lot of people from taking risk.
And two things happened very early on in my career.
(07:44):
The 1st is I had just moved to New York with a Google YouTube
team and about six months into that experience, a woman from
the Wall Street Journal had met her through a friend.
We totally hit it off. She was like, come work for my
team at the Journal and I was like, I don't know anything
(08:04):
about this. My dad reads the Journal and one
she, Joanna Mayor Jones, who is now a mentor of mine and
somebody that I really look up to, had opened this door for me.
And then as I was making my way out of Google, another mentor,
Brian Ruiz. He said he basically gave me
(08:27):
some very specific tools to negotiate that bridge into the
next part of my career. And and so while the world was
telling me and my family was telling me I'm crazy for leaving
Google, that's the best place towork, quote UN quote, I was
totally drinking the kool-aid when I was there.
(08:49):
Brian was like, you should go and also this is how you should
negotiate. And it was such a gift because
it really levelled up my career.And then on the flip side, I was
then after a very short time actually working in the ad sales
space at at Google because I wasactually started on a customer
support team. Over the course of a year, I had
(09:11):
this crash course in like the entire advertising industry,
which is also this world where your relationships are
everything and it is a numbers game of connecting with people,
as as many people as possible and only some of those things
will hit and so much of it is out of your control.
So I was so grateful for that time and to have Joanna Mayor
(09:36):
Jones as a mentor, teaching me how to put myself out there
constantly and not be, I do think I am like a, you know, a
gentle heart person. And it's a blessing and a curse
because my heart will be broken by, like, silly things like, you
know, an ad campaign going wrongincorrectly.
And I've let down this client who I now have a relationship
(09:58):
with. And you know, Joe would find me
crying in a phone room and she'slike, it's OK, Like it's going
to be OK. But that's all to say that I'm,
I'm really grateful for the factthat my early 20s and my mid
20s, I was in a different industry because I think as a
woman who was learn strategically to go through the
(10:21):
actions of what would a man do? And I started asking that
question to myself and then justdoing it and not overthinking it
and being like, I have nothing to lose.
I could always go back to Google, I guess, like that's on
my resume. But on the flip side, I, I'm
glad that I went through this like rigmarole very early on
outside of the film industry because I think if I had gone
(10:41):
right to LA and started to work as a PA, I would have been eaten
alive because I was, I'm a sensitive soul and like, that's
like somebody that's so important to my work now as an
artist. Yeah, Now we're going to talk
more about your podcast, No filmschool in just a bit, but I'm
curious on a personal level how you found the right teachers and
(11:06):
educational programs and things like that.
Because obviously, like that's why we started our podcast as
well as because of, you know, lowering that barrier for entry
for education and spotlighting who, you know, I feel are
powerful voices in the space. Because as someone who has
experienced teachers who punch down to shape clay the way that
(11:27):
they want to and not finding that productive, for me
personally, I always like to talk about that and and see how
you found who amplified your voice and guided it in the right
way for you. Yeah, it's such a great
question. And I think when you're learning
in this industry, like specifically in film, because it
(11:49):
is film business like there and there are naturally it attracts
very specific personalities, butalso forces you to be
vulnerable. It's really, there are some
really toxic players out there. And and this isn't exactly
(12:10):
apples to apples, but I remembera moment when I was in the UCB
curriculum at in New York and there was a teacher, a four O 1
teacher who who was punching down in a way and dismissing
this entire group in a way that like in in looking back at it
(12:34):
now, I'm like, oh, I think he was like a really sad man.
And to be in comedy like that also attracts a very specific
type of person. And I almost quit improv
outright. And that was like my one time to
play and and be creative outsideof my corporate career.
(12:56):
But I felt so bad. I felt so bad about myself.
And then I dipped my toe back inwith this teacher, this
improviser, who you may know hisname because now he he just won
an Emmy this year. But Jeff Hiller, are you
familiar? Yes, yes, he taught this
character class in and it was sort of like an offshoot of the
(13:22):
typical rigmarole. And he taught this class and he
was so kind and so warm and so encouraging of people.
And I'm actually like getting emotional because it's such a
powerful thing to be that open warmth to people and to lead
with warmth and strength and lift people up.
(13:44):
And it's as we know, it's incredibly vulnerable to be
putting yourself out there. But he was somebody that, and,
and I don't know him that well. Like I've emailed him a couple
of times and and seen a couple shows of his, but he was
somebody that like showed that you can be kind and warm in this
(14:04):
space and lift people up and like still be cool and and it
sounds fun. One O 1 exactly and then
successful then win an Emmy. So there's it's the opposite of
is it short and fraud where it'slike joy in other people's
discomfort or pain. It's like this is like I feel
the opposite. I feel so much so thrilled that
(14:28):
he is getting the success that he's gotten.
And then I remember there's one other improviser teacher named
Zach Willis who also created a really safe space for play.
And I think you can't really be creative if you're in a survival
mode. And then and so that's like a
very, those are two stark examples of like the power of
(14:53):
lifting people up and play and leading with kindness and how
detrimental like, you know, a mentor who mentor, quote, UN
quote or somebody in a powerful position can be.
Then in over the course of my career, you know, being a writer
(15:17):
director, which, you know, I still even have a little
imposter syndrome about it because I've only been paid to
write and direct like one podcast and one little spot for
MasterCard that like, you know, got cut up for social.
So, but but you have to like declare that this is what you
(15:38):
are and, and prove to people. And I have a bit of like, I'm
driven by that. I'm like, I want to show people
that I am this. So I'm thinking about like
teachers that have been impactful.
And I, I love creating a space to learn because I love
(16:00):
deadlines. I'm, I love being curious about
how to like, I think there's so much goodness to, to gain from a
great class. So I'm trying to think of like
the, the mentors and the people who have lifted me up and I'll,
(16:20):
I'll shout out a director named Chris McKay, who he, I
interviewed him on the no film school podcast.
He directed Renfield and Lego Batman and very different from
like my, what I create. He said, if you ever need
anything, let me know. And and then eventually I was
(16:40):
like, I think I need like a festival fairy godparent for my
movie. And I got on a call with him and
he's like, I've been out of the festival game for so long.
But I, I watched the a bit of your movie and there's this one
director who I think would be great.
And I'm not going to name her because I don't know if it's
(17:01):
public information, but he lovedthis director so much.
He went and saw her movies like twice in theaters.
And then he was like, I don't know her personally, but I'm
going to have my team reach out to her team and see if she'll
talk. And that was one of like the
kindest things that somebody cando.
And he didn't really owe me anything.
Like I talked to him for 45 minutes about his movie.
(17:23):
So anyway, there's been these like little guardian Angel
moments coming out of South by Ididn't even really get to hang
out with these directors there. But Annapurna, the director,
writer and star of Fuck toys andAlex, the director and writer of
satisfaction. There's been this like really
refreshing group of like, I can text them and gut check things
(17:48):
and, and we kind of like finished South by and then we
did a podcast together, but we were all like, Oh my God, we did
it. How are you?
Are you OK? And there was this like
camaraderie that I've never feltbefore, where like the
experience of making a film is so all like intense and, and,
(18:09):
and take so much out of you to see somebody, to see two other
women and many other people. But like two women who have made
something that is, that are so true to their own voices and
against all odds and still be fighting you even after a
festival. You have to be fighting for your
movie. I was so inspired.
So like, I don't know if that's mentorship, but something
(18:31):
somewhere between mentorship andpure like camaraderie.
Oh, and I appreciate that openness to talk about that
because I think it's so important for us to have those
conversations because I think asactors, I mean, that's the main
side that I come from. And we're constantly being sold
on things and there are resume lines to fill that we are told
(18:53):
that will check whatever box to then succeed to the next, you
know, room in the maze. And if it's not the right fit
for you personally and they don't get you and they don't
amplify you and you feel like it's a success or failure or
you're trying to be approved in some way, that's not where your
creativity thrives. And that's why I always try to
talk about this because it's, I think it's just so important
(19:16):
that you find the people that build up your creative ways
because that's why we started. This is because everyone is
unique. Jumping off of that, a common
thread in your work that is uniquely you is exploring the
dark side of the female experience, and I'm curious what
was the driving force or personal connection to go in
that direction with your writingand directing and the projects
(19:37):
you're drawn to. I don't know if it was ever
anything I was aware of. I just sort of have always been
drawn to like the weirdness, thedarkness inside of ourselves
and, and in a way, like I think it's fascinating and funny and
(20:00):
weird and heartbreaking all at the same time.
So I've generally tried to just pursue my bliss with like, and
my taste in my voice and, and really hone in on that.
It's fascinating because I do feel like.
(20:20):
Having the workout in the world and there are some projects that
I've just directed and some thatI've written and directed see
and some that I've, you know, developed with actors.
It's always really the best experiences when like women come
to me or the team and say, holy shit, I've never seen, I've
(20:45):
never felt so seen or that is me.
And yeah, so I, I, I think once I started to do that and, and
like, stop trying to conform to what felt, what would be good
or, or funny or right and just followed my bliss, that's when
(21:06):
things started to pop off with, you know, an acknowledgement of
like structure and story are really important.
But like, I don't know the work sometimes as you iterate and I'm
really big into constant feedback at in the writing
phase, in the editing phase, it really presents itself if I'm
(21:30):
working it, you know? Well, going off of that, like
how, how do you find the people that you trust to give you
feedback on your work? Because that's a big challenge
for some people to be that levelof vulnerable with something
that they love so much. And but also, you don't want to
just get your flowers and be told it's great.
(21:50):
It's, it's so interesting. I, I definitely don't want gold
stars. And, and sometimes I feel like I
get that and I'm like this, well, this isn't helpful because
I still know something is wrong,like in my gut.
And then sometimes I'll get feedback, like somebody gave me
feedback. A professor of mine of the film
(22:10):
school that I dropped out of gave me feedback on my feature
and said, this isn't working. You're going to have to cut it
to be an experimental short. And I'm like, I've pressure
tested this with a lot of audiences.
I know, I know that it's working.
So I actually like, know in my gut that this feedback isn't
working for me. Helpful I appreciate the time
(22:33):
but like being able to be OK with knowing when something is
is just it is like a taste thingor or or you know a different
type type of taste I guess is what I'm what I'm trying to say.
But the best, I mean, I also love getting feedback constantly
(22:56):
because it unlocks things like somebody reacting to something
and reacting in a way that's notas I I intended.
Then that's information that's so helpful or thinking, you
know, for example, the lead in my movie, if they're like, you
know, not on board with who she is upfront, then there's an
issue there. So there's a lot of processing
(23:20):
information, receiving data, processing it and then sitting
with it. And then like sometimes just
being really patient with it. I will, it's been interesting.
I've given feedback recently to somebody who then started to
critique me in my feedback and it was like, wow, like this is
(23:43):
so it was, it was like a shock to the system because I was
like, you know, it's not a big, it's a tall ask to give feedback
on a feature and or a script. And so no matter what, like even
if the feedback is cut your feature into a short, this isn't
working. I'm all, I'm still like, wow,
(24:03):
thank you so much for taking thetime to do this because that
it's OK if our taste is not the same.
And I'm so grateful for all the people along the way, friends,
people from writing groups like Strangers for No Film School
listeners who have taken the time to give feedback on my
work. And that's really special.
Now, when you're approaching a new idea or project, what is
(24:24):
your creative process and outline like?
I used to avoid outlining and now I'm like, I have to do it
right now I'm in the process of coming up with like a couple of
big picture ideas and then I'm going to workshop that with a, a
screenwriter, director friend. And then I'm going to take it to
(24:45):
my managers and workshop a couple of those ideas.
I have some high concept ideas, but I'm very intimidated by the
idea of writing like a traditional movie movie because
I don't know, I, I think I'd getin my head and, and I also do
(25:05):
like to work with like writing coaches because it's like a
personal trainer for your writing where it's like, OK, I'm
going to, I have to give Pilar, try not to Pilar Alessandra, the
1st 25 pages by Wednesday so shecan give me feedback by Friday.
Like I have to do it. I'm paying her to do it.
So that's a little bit of accountability for me too.
(25:26):
Now, when you're both wearing writer and director hats like
on, I really love my husband. How does balancing those
responsibilities work for you? I see them just completely hand
in hand. You know, you can't separate the
writing from the directing. They are, they are.
(25:48):
And I have directed something that someone else has written
and I've Co written things that I've directed.
But it really, you know, there it's so ingrained and I'm a huge
believer in doing as much preparation as possible so you
can be flexible on the day. So by the time we're getting to
set, I will have or and with. I really love my husband.
(26:10):
Not only did I workshop the entire script with the actors to
make it feel right in their voice and do multiple table
reads and revised and revised and revised a million times, but
I've usually, especially for anylike critical scene, I've
rehearsed with the actors. I know the blocking.
(26:32):
I've like worked with the DP to design overheads and shot lists.
Like, I know why and where the camera is, where it's going to
be and how we're going to shoot it.
That could all go away based offof where we are at or if we have
to change locations or it's raining outside.
But I think that my job as the director is to be prepared and
(26:54):
also understand how to ultimately translate what is
written on the page into performances that work and then
capturing it in a way that also like lends itself to the story.
I, I genuinely believe the directing segment of this entire
experience, like 90% of of that is casting because you can't,
(27:19):
you can do a lot of magic in post, but editing around
performance is the you do not want to be in that situation.
And great actors are like the most valuable thing for a movie.
Because you were casting virtually and then, you know,
(27:40):
I'm assuming rehearsals were more in the room.
Or did you do virtual rehearsalswith your actors?
So I wrote the script for Madison and we did a lot of
development together along with Scott Monahan, who was
originally going to play Drew. And we got to the point where we
had to cast the character of Pause, who is the person that
(28:05):
this couple on their honeymoon decides to seduce?
The Airbnb rental host who's loosely based off of my stepdad
who lived on that island in Panama for 16 years.
And we were having trouble just from self submissions, finding
somebody who, you know, it was believable that they would be an
expat living on this island, always barefoot, always smiling,
(28:26):
like living this totally radicalway of life compared to, you
know, our main characters. And and they also had to have
chemistry with everyone. And so we ended up bringing on a
casting director and we did a ton of in person chemistry
reads. Then we had to recast Drew.
(28:47):
So then we did a whole other round of casting Druze.
And I was really nervous becauseI had like, you know, written
the part for Scott. Then we did like chemistry reads
with probably like 20 Drews in person.
Then we did a, you know, anotherround and then our final in
person chemistry reads. And ironically, I, the first
(29:13):
tape I saw where I was like, oh,we'll find a Drew.
We ended up having like many different options, but it was
that first guy I saw Travis Quinton Young, who ended up
being Drew and, and it was all based off of like he's the, the
chemistry and the specificity ofthe chemistry because there were
(29:34):
different chemistry's. It was like there was a
chemistry where Teresa would be just the bad guy because this
guy's so good. And there was something, there
was like something complex aboutTravis.
There's a darkness to him that was paired with this sweetness
that was so important for Drew. There was kind of like a bro ear
(29:54):
Drew. There was.
But then I remember we did the the sides and then I had them
sort of take the sides and put it into the context of a
different scene. And there were.
And it's this moment where Teresa's coming home drunk and
she climbs on top of Drew and islike trying to seduce him and he
(30:16):
smells the tequila on her. And he and like Travis did this
thing where he like didn't want to look away from her, but his
whole body was sinking away. And I was like, that is so true
to Drew. And and it's why he got the
role. Like it was him being present in
that moment and having a really true to Drew reaction that was
(30:37):
like, so amazing. What was the original sparker
jumping off point for the film? I was taking a class at the
Gotham called a Micro Budget producing.
And the big take away for that course was look at what you
already have access to and, and now write something for that,
(30:59):
like that's your superpower. And I knew I had two things.
One, this location in Panama that we were only going to have
till the end of the year. My my stepdad built that house.
My parents were married in frontof it.
They rented it out as an income stream and they were trying to
sell it for 11 years. And I was like, wait, put the
brakes on it. Like, can you, can I shoot
something there before we go? And then on the other side, it
(31:23):
was this group of people that I had made shorts and sketches
with. Ryan Thomas, RDP, Madison, Lana,
see who plays Teresa. Christina O'Sullivan, our
editor. And yeah, so that that was I I
called everyone up and I was like, hey, it's May 2023.
(31:44):
We had till October to finish because it was about to be the
rainy season and we were losing the location and I said do you
guys want to make a movie in Panama?
It's going to be a micro budget mumblecore thing.
And they all said yes. And then I started writing the
script. What were the the goals that you
(32:05):
had are markers for yourself heading into filming of both on
a personal and professional level taking on this challenge?
Well, it came from a place of like pressure on myself.
I, I, I'm now 34 and married andwant to have kids and I am late
(32:28):
to this career, but I am learning that this career is, I
think, a career for people who stick with it and grow wise and
mature. But I just felt like I need to
take a big swing now. And that was sort of the
underlying a little bit of fear,a little bit of like every time
(32:51):
I've taken a big scary leap, it's worked out in a way that I
didn't expect. And then my main goal with the
film was like, I want to be ableto make another one after this.
I did see it as like a great experiment.
I didn't want to be posting on social media about it.
We were pretty quiet about it because I didn't want that
(33:16):
pressure. It still came.
But I also, you know, thought this might not lead to anything.
It's possible nobody will ever see this.
I and it let me almost stay present in the movie, like
present for the team, present for what it needed immediately.
(33:37):
And yeah, that was, I'm glad that I was able to.
Of course I wanted it to succeed.
But I I've kept my expectations very low this whole time.
Yeah. Do you have a favorite scene or
day on set? Oh gosh, my favorite scene is
Secret Island. It's sort of like it's the
(33:59):
climax of the movie. And I just love the
performances. I am so moved by how honest all
the actors are on that on that scene on that day.
And it was like a a pretty like in I think we were very
prepared, but you never know howit's going to go.
(34:23):
And there there was a lot of. I remember taking the boat over
to get to this island, which wasacross the way, and seeing
dolphins on the way over. And I was like, oh, my God, the
film gods are watching over us. Yeah, just in the movie.
I love that scene. And then Favorite Day, I don't
(34:44):
know, it was such a whirlwind. It wasn't easy.
But I do feel like there was a lot of excitement and joy
happening with the cast and crewthat I don't know if I was 100%
feeling that because I was a little all over the place,
(35:06):
holding it all together, holdingparts of it together, working
with the team. But I, I, it was really fun to
bring. Like I, it felt special to bring
people to Panama, which is this place that I grew up going to
and I didn't realize it because I also, you know, have all my
life gone to Costa Rica and Panama because my grandparents
lived in Costa Rica and that my mom married Peter, my stepdad,
(35:28):
when I was in middle school. So like, this is my equivalent
of, you know, family vacation orgoing to grandma's house.
And I was surprised at how I think I'm spoiled by how that
the beauty of that part of the world.
And I, so I, I think I didn't realize how much people would be
(35:49):
like, what is this place? Like we're on an island with no
roads that has like restaurants that we can walk to.
And the great part about bogus Del Toro, Panama is like
everyone vaca, like foreigners vacation there, Panamanian's
vacation there. They go to the same bars that
the locals go to. And it's like kind of the only
(36:09):
place in the world that I've been to that is so integrated
because it's so it's so beautiful and it's a really
special place. Now you all had your premiere at
South by you touched on you needed like a a festival of
fairy godmother. I love that yes, but what was
that? What was that journey and
experience and the nerves and all of that like?
(36:30):
Yeah, the getting into South by we always said we're like this
is a South by film. This is a South by film.
But like, it was no guarantee. You know, we I am not a name.
The actors are not quote UN quote named talent, which I I'm
that it makes my blood boil because that is something that
(36:53):
the industry like really puts such an emphasis on.
And you know, for example, we were, I had dinner with my
distributor yesterday and he's like, yeah, we heard back said
they didn't want to watch it because there were no, there
were no stars. And it's like all of these
people are going to be stars. They're so freaking talented.
(37:13):
So it was still like a, in some ways a battle to be seen and
considered. But the South by programming
team did a really like great jobsupporting the film makers and
making us feel like informed andclear on what we needed to do.
(37:34):
We worked with Fonz PR, which was is something that is like
you have to do that. If you're at a buyer's festival,
you have to work with PR. The work that that that those
folks do is like mission critical.
And I don't think a lot of film makers realize how how important
it is to have existing relationships and that people
(37:59):
spend year PR people spend yearsdeveloping those relationships
and help you navigate that. So I felt very lucky to have
like the Fonz PR team supportingus and teaching us and answering
my crazy questions. We also had a sales Rep, Glenn
Reynolds, who also constantly answered my crazy like just one
(38:22):
O 1 questions. And I think as a creative, like
the more you know and the if youcan stay curious about things
that can be scary, like will somebody just buy my movie or
whatever, Then it takes the fearout of it.
And you can be informed and learn and and be empowered in
that experience. And then, you know, seeing it
(38:45):
with audiences where complete strangers liked the movie.
My favorite letterbox review is like a guy who's like, I
couldn't get into another screening, so I just went to
this one and it's my favorite movie at the festival.
And that is like, I mean, the that's, I don't know what that
(39:05):
it would be called 'cause it's not a Gold Star.
It's like a gift. And yeah, so, so very, very
wonderful. And but you can't really rest at
South by at least in the beginning.
It's like you're the bride and you have to be on.
(39:25):
And I did stay till the end. I actually did a whole, you
know, film school podcast episode about this.
But staying till the end, I actually got to see movies and
hang out with people and rest. So many film makers don't put
the energy into getting their movie out there that they should
(39:46):
and they're selling themselves in the movie short.
So think about it this way. Like a Ryan Gosling action movie
costs 50 million and then they take usually like half of that
budget so another 25,000,000 to market the movie it.
If that's how much energy that they're putting into market an
(40:08):
action movie with Ryan Gosling, what why are we as indie film
makers, like precluded from thateffort?
So I, I don't even think we've done an amazing job, but we do
have an amazing intern named Verena who's at Chapman, who's
taken over our social media, which has been so helpful 'cause
(40:29):
I was doing running that and we've had, you know, our two PR
teams. So that has been important.
But I think throughout this entire process, there have been
a few moments where there have been like that sort of red flag
gut feeling coming up. And I've only acted on it one
(40:53):
time. And that was like, we had a
partner that it wasn't working out with just in this sort of
distribution phase. And it wasn't our just, it was,
it was somebody that we brought on to help and it, and there was
like it just wasn't working on afundamental EQ level.
And I was like, I think we pay this person for what they did
and I think we move on. And I'm really proud of myself
(41:14):
for listening to that cuz there are a couple points along the
way where I silenced that gut feeling and now I'm like, it's
so much better to, you know, hire slowly and fire quickly.
What was the inspiration for your podcast No Film School?
Yeah, so the No Film School podcast has actually been around
(41:34):
for like 10 years almost. And I found it when I was 27,
thinking I maybe wanted to be a filmmaker and started listening
to it. And then I went to film school
for a year and one of the professors was one of the hosts
of the show. We tried to pitch a podcast
(41:55):
about labor issues in the film industry.
Nobody wanted to cover the costsof it.
So he's like, just come on the No Film School Podcast.
So I started to come on just as a guest and eventually was like,
OK, I've been on a couple times.Like do you think I could get
paid? And then there was some
downsizing that was happening. And so I got upgraded to being
(42:19):
the, the lead host. And I just tried to approach it
as the as earnestly and, and truthfully as possible, like
asking the questions that I wishI had asked in the beginning,
asking the questions that are relevant to me now.
(42:41):
And I have the privilege of talking to incredible film
makers at all stages, you know, actors who are directing.
I've spoken with Ray Romano and Eva Longoria and film makers who
have been just so influential inmy life, James Mangold, Benny
Safdie, and then a lot of like folks in positions that are
(43:07):
outside of the, the, the limelight, if you will, so
editors or DPS. And I think that, you know, as
film makers, the more we learn about other people's processes
and how they explore their creativity and specifically work
in creative collaboration, we wereally like just stand to gain
(43:33):
better experiences, figure out how to make movies in ways that
are ethical and kind. I'm very much a work in progress
that's actually like a feature of my newsletter is like talking
about projects as we're making them and like how we can learn
from that because it's so often that we only hear from people at
(43:56):
the very end of the journey whenit's there's a lot of rose
colored glass happening. So I like to get into the real
of it all. Do you have a favorite episode
or conversation that you've beenable to share with your
listeners? I love my interview with Kelly
Freeman Craig, who directed Are You There God?
It's me, Margaret. And again, like somebody who's
(44:19):
leading with like strength and warmth, Dean Fleischer camp who
directed Marcel the Shell and the new Lilo and Stitch like
also very honest about the process of like developing
authentically and acknowledging like animation hybrid that just
hasn't felt good in the past. And I'm like, let's, I really
(44:43):
just appreciate it when people are keeping it real.
As we wind down, is there any advice or encouragement or
resources that have benefited orsupported you or your community
that you would want to share here with the listeners?
I definitely think you have to green light yourself and give
yourself permission. Nobody's going to give it to
(45:04):
you. IA resource that I found really
helpful is the work in progress section of my newsletter where I
interview people as they're making their micro budget films.
So the newsletter is called making it.
You can get it on my website gigihawkins.com.
But I really like, I do like thelike in the process experience
(45:31):
because, you know, it can feel really lonely to make a film,
but like there's a there's a lotof us who and I and I just like
really respect the the hustle when people are continuing to
put themselves out there. We close every episode the same
way. What is one thing you wish you'd
go back and tell your younger self?
Oh, I love that you are enough. JJ, thank you so much for
(45:56):
joining us on the pod today. Thank you, Laura, it was so nice
to meet you. Hi everyone, thanks for
listening and being the absolutebest part of our creative
community here at What's My Frame?
If you'd like to learn more about our guests, please check
out the show notes and please join us on socials at What's My
Frame? To stay in the know for upcoming
events, I'm your host, Laura Linda Bradley.
(46:17):
We'll see you next Monday.
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