July 2, 2025 • 22 mins
Discover the relationship dynamic that may be silently sabotaging your connection with your partner. In this eye-opening exploration, I reveal how well-intentioned efforts to help our partners often create a painful pattern where one person feels chronically disappointed while the other internalizes being the disappointment.
Drawing from my personal journey through marital separation and reconciliation, I share how this revelation transformed my approach to conflict. When my husband struggled with depression, I threw myself into "helping" – researching therapists, sharing resources, and offering constant suggestions. From the outside, I appeared to be the model supportive spouse. Yet beneath these actions lay an unconscious message: "there's something wrong with you that needs fixing." Every well-meaning suggestion reinforced his inadequacy and my position as the expert who knew better.
This pattern appears not just during mental health challenges but in everyday interactions. When we repeatedly express frustration with our partners, we unintentionally communicate that they're fundamentally flawed. No wonder they respond with defensiveness or shutdown! As Aboriginal activist Lilla Watson wisely noted: "If you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together." This shift from a hierarchical helping relationship to true partnership changes everything.
Breaking free from this dynamic requires several crucial shifts: understanding nervous system regulation, separating events from the stories we create about them, focusing on our own contributions rather than our partner's shortcomings, and learning effective communication skills. When we move from trying to fix our partner to working together as equals, we create the foundation for genuine growth and lasting connection.
Join me next episode as I dive deeper into specific strategies for creating partnership rather than perpetuating the disappointed-disappointment cycle. Your relationship transformation awaits!
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you ready to talk about acommon relationship dynamic that
is often underlying conflictsbetween partners and creates
roadblocks to change?
Would you like to betterunderstand how you can shift,
how you think about and addressyour frustrations with your
partner so you can actuallyimprove your relationship?
If so, join me today as I talkabout the disappointed and the
(00:24):
disappointment in relationship.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am delighted that you are
here.
Let's get started.
In the last few episodes, I'vebeen talking about how partners
can come together in partnershipand work on their relationship
and decide how to take stepstogether, instead of what often
happens in relationship, whichis that two partners often work
(00:45):
independently and oftenunintentionally, against each
other, and that really doesn'tyield a very positive result.
So I've been exploring howpartners can attune to
themselves and the relationshipand choose how to move forward
together so that they canactually be working as a team,
and in the last episode, Itouched on this incredibly
significant relationship dynamic.
(01:06):
That is absolutely one of thegreatest learnings or greatest
awarenesses that I developedafter attending the Getting the
Love you Want workshop that myhusband and I attended for the
first time when we wereseparated about 10 years ago,
and it was an awareness that Itook with me from my experience
in the workshop that created amonumental shift in my
(01:28):
relationship with my husband andhow I understood the conflicts
that we were experiencing andtherefore was able to actually
change how I approach theconflicts and make choices.
That actually created a helpfulconversation between the two of
us and allowed for a wholedifferent avenue of options to
be open to us.
So we were really able to takeon our relationship challenges
(01:50):
in a whole new way, and so Itouched on this concept in the
last episode and I immediatelyknew that I had to talk more
about it.
In Imago Relationship Therapy,which is the approach that I use
when working with partners inrelationship, there is this idea
of the disappointed and thedisappointment, and basically
what it means is that sooftentimes in a relationship,
(02:11):
one person commonly feelsdisappointed.
They're regularly frustrated,they're disappointed in how
their relationship feels, whattheir partner is doing.
They feel even possiblyexasperated by the level of
dissatisfaction that they havein the relationship, and then
the other partner oftentimesends up feeling like they are
the disappointment because theyseem to be the root cause of so
(02:34):
many of their partner'sfrustrations, and this dynamic
of one partner feeling like theyare the disappointed and the
other partner therefore becomingwhat feels like the
disappointment is absolutelypainful and it's something until
you realize that it's presentin your relationship.
If it is, in fact, present inyour relationship, you're really
likely to remain stuck in a lotof the frustrations and the
(02:57):
patterns of tension that you'reexperiencing with your partner.
I'm going to talk about thisthrough the framework of when
you're really trying to helpimprove your relationship and
that's what you really want tohave happen.
That's your intention.
That could be what you'rethinking about, or maybe it
isn't exactly what you'rethinking about.
Maybe you're focused on thefrustration, but underlying that
frustration is really a desireto help and improve and make
things feel better for you andyour partner.
(03:18):
So think through what ourintentions are, our underlying
intentions, and then connectthat to the unintended messages
that we often send by what wesay and what we do when we're
trying to help our relationship.
But it actually ends up fuelingthis disappointed
disappointment dynamic and itreally makes progress very
difficult.
So I'm going to share myexperience and the two main ways
(03:41):
that I'm going to talk abouthow this has shown up in my own
relationship is one in the ideaof when my husband was really
suffering with pretty severedepressive episodes, how I
addressed those and tried tohelp him.
And then also, in a little bitmore of a general sense, how,
when I was trying to share myfrustrations and, in fact, my
(04:02):
disappointments with my husband,how I did that in a way that
really created more problems formyself and the relationship
rather than help them, eventhough, of course, I didn't
realize any of that when I wasinitially doing it.
And even today, when I have avery clear understanding of this
dynamic, how I can still oftenfall into this sort of trap and
this old dynamic and I try tocatch myself as quickly as I can
(04:25):
.
That's the best I can really do, and I'll talk about some
things that can be helpful forshifting this dynamic as well.
So to begin just to think aboutthat idea of our intention
versus the unintended messagesthat we send when we're trying
to help our partner or improveour relationship when your
partner is depressed and they'restuck in that place, and going
(04:46):
back about 10 years, 11, 12years, my husband was, in fact,
pretty frequently stuck inmoderate to severe depressive
episodes and it was really hardfor all of us.
It was hard for me, it was hardfor him, it was hard for our
very young son back then as well, in a whole different way that
I won't touch on today.
And so my intention was, ofcourse, to help and make things
(05:11):
better.
And I'm a therapist after alland I've also lived with
depression my whole life, so Ihad a ton of professional and
personal experience that Ithought would be really valuable
to him.
So my heart was in the rightplace, so to speak, and I've
touched on this before in otherepisodes.
But I really put in a hugeamount of effort into trying to
support my husband through hisdepression.
I would encourage him to go totherapy and I would help him
(05:31):
look up therapists and look intoour insurance coverage, and I
had post-it notes on our bedroommirror with all these positive
affirmations and I bought booksfor him and shared articles with
him.
Back then I was not yet acertified Imago relationship
therapist, but I knew of thefoundational Imago book, which
(05:52):
is the Getting the Love you Wantbook, which is theory and
exercise for couples to be ableto communicate differently and
connect through theirdifferences.
So I owned that book back thenand we read the book together
and then when it came time to dothe exercises and he struggled
with an exercise or didn't havean answer to give at that moment
, I jumped in saying, hey, theseare your answers, these are the
hurts you've experienced.
I wanted him to understand whatwas going on for him.
(06:13):
I wanted him to understand histhoughts and his feelings
differently.
I was trying to be helpful.
That was really what myconscious thought was, and I had
a lot of feedback from otherpeople in my life about how
incredibly helpful I was and howI must be such a committed,
loving wife doing anything andeverything for my husband.
So I had a lot of validationthat what I was doing was
(06:33):
helpful at the time.
And it's not that what I wasdoing was awful in and of itself
.
It's not like those actionswere bad actions, and I talked a
little bit more about thispiece of it in one of my
previous episodes called whenHelping your Partner Hurts you
Both a nervous system approachto support, and I won't talk too
much about nervous systemstoday, but if today's episode
(06:54):
resonates with you, I wouldrecommend you going and checking
out that episode as well,because there's a huge nervous
system component piece to thatwhich, like I said, I'm not
going to dive into too deeplytoday, but it's definitely
present and very helpful tounderstand.
And back then I didn'tunderstand the nervous system
piece.
So it was very easy for me tosay I'm being helpful, I'm
trying to do the best I can, andit really became a dynamic
(07:14):
where I did start to experiencea great deal of disappointment
why isn't he helping himself?
Why isn't he doing these thingsthat he needs to do or should
do, which I talk about a lot.
Should is a judgment.
I didn't see it that way then,or realize that judgment was
creeping in, and so the more Iwas trying to help him feel
better, the more I was actuallyunintentionally sending him
messages that he was a letdownor that I knew better than him.
(07:38):
I definitely was coming as theexpert, the therapist, wife.
In trying to help him, I wascommunicating that there was
something wrong with him and ofcourse he was feeling like a
disappointment.
Of course he was feeling notgood enough.
Of course he was feeling likehe was letting me down.
Right, he didn't want to bedepressed, any more than I
didn't want him to be depressed.
So it wasn't like he wasn'ttrying to feel better.
(07:58):
He was just on his ownindividual journey and so much
of how I was coming to him wasreally communicating how
disappointed I was in him andhow incapable I thought he was,
which was not consciously what Ithought at all.
And I actually think that myhusband is an extraordinarily
capable person, which in part iswhy I was coming to him saying,
hey, do this, I know you can doit.
But I wasn't really saying thatpiece so clearly, the I believe
(08:22):
in you and I know that you cando this.
Not that I never said it, butit really wasn't probably the
top message that I was sending.
It was more like do this, trythis, this would help.
I was in so many waysunintentionally telling him how
I thought he should think andfeel and be in this world.
So no wonder none of that washelpful.
And again, when I went to theworkshop and I started to see my
(08:43):
role in the nightmare, as wecall it in Imago of our
relationship, how I wascontributing to these painful
dynamics, it really created animmediate shift for me and it
helped me a lot to respond backthen specifically to his
depression.
And the second example of howthis shows up in relationship
that I'll talk a bit about aswell is just the idea that when
(09:04):
you are trying to improve yourrelationship Depression aside
when you're frustrated and youwant your needs to be met and
you want to be heard, and you'retrying to communicate, and
those are all really reallyimportant things to do in a
relationship, so of course, theyneed to be done.
However, our approach to doingthem is often really not helpful
, and again these unintendedmessages get sent when we're
(09:25):
constantly talking to ourpartner about what's frustrating
us and we're telling them thatsomething is wrong with you.
Our intention is to help thingsget better, and yet our
approach often again contributesto this dynamic of you're
disappointing me, you're notgood enough, what's wrong with
you?
Why can't you do this better?
Why don't you just change that?
Here's another thing that youhave to work on, and it can
really pile on pretty quickly,and so it really is not
(09:48):
surprising that when I come withhim in frustration and say we
need to talk about this, he canrespond with some exasperation
or, oh you know, like what did Ido now?
Or what did I do wrong thistime?
And he might not actually saythose things to me, but I have
come to understand and realizethat that is what's underlying.
And I will also just sayquickly here that this just came
up for me in my relationshipwith my son, who's 13, just over
(10:11):
the last couple of weeks, wherewe were having a conversation
in the car about something thatwas going on with him and I was
trying to be supportive, tryingto be a mom, but again therapist
mom was creeping in.
I think I didn't realize it.
Thankfully, he said to me mom,every time we get in the car, do
we have to have a conversationlike this?
And I was like, oh right, likethis probably isn't that most
helpful approach.
(10:31):
I realized it and I was able topull back and I did
subsequently talk to my sonabout this very concept that I
am never trying to communicate,that he's a disappointment,
although I realized that maybe Isometimes do exactly that and I
definitely have done that andstill continue to do that with
my husband Not as often as Iused to, but I absolutely can
fall into that dynamic where itfeels like a lot of frustrations
(10:53):
are building and I can getstuck there sometimes.
I'm human, I'm imperfect andthough I continue to learn and
grow and expand my awareness.
I still make mistakes and thebest I can do is recognize them
and try to make a repair Right.
So if I'm hurting my husband orI'm sending this message that
he's a disappointment, then it'smy responsibility to repair
that.
And it doesn't mean that thefrustration doesn't need to get
(11:15):
addressed.
It's just there's a way toaddress the frustration and I
will touch on that in just a fewminutes.
I want to go back to the ideathat so many people in my life
validated me how hard I wastrying, how frustrating it was
it was, and it was so easy forme to almost feel sorry for
myself or just feel reallyjustified and like how awful it
was to be in this relationshipand how hard it was to be in
(11:35):
this relationship, which I'vesaid many times, and it's true,
my relationship has in fact beena very difficult relationship a
lot of the time, but it's notbecause of my husband, it is
because of us and ourdysregulation and the stories
that we have created around eachother and our relationship and
the stories that we brought intoour relationship from our
childhood experience and so muchmore.
(11:56):
That has been hard and when weactually are able to get to a
place of regulation and cometogether in partnership, which
is what this whole podcast isabout is how to come together
with your partner so that youcan co-create the relationship
you want to have, no matter whatyou're experiencing if
depression is present or anxietyor just life stress or whatever
(12:16):
it is there is absolutely a wayto come together and to make
that happen.
And so it was so easy for me tosee his impact on me and of
course, that makes sense.
If we feel hurt, we're going tonotice, ouch, that hurts.
And it makes sense that wewould want to tell somebody
about that, like hey, you'rehurting me, don't do that
anymore, or whatever we want tosay.
(12:37):
But it was harder for me to seehis experience and when I
started to realize how bad I wasunintentionally making him feel
and that's also complicated.
You can't really make someonefeel a certain way but, given
who he is and his experiences,his interpretations of what I
was doing and saying madecomplete and total sense and, as
I talked about in the otherepisode that I mentioned earlier
, there was a whole nervoussystem dynamic going on that I
(12:58):
wasn't feeling safe and calm andgrounded when I was helping him
.
I was in a mobilized fight,response like something bad is
happening to me, so I have to dosomething about it.
And so, of course, he wasfeeling attacked, right?
Of course he was going to feellike I had a negative
perspective about him because Iwas treating him in so many ways
like the enemy, even though Iconsciously would have said that
(13:20):
I was really trying to help andI was trying to help, but the
implementation was really reallyoff.
And so, once I started tounderstand the dynamic, I
started to have enormouscompassion for my husband and
not 100% of the time, in everyand all moments, by the way but
I started to really understand.
Gosh, it's been rough to bedisappointed so frequently, but
it must feel pretty awful tothink that the person that you
love, that you want to makehappy, is so disappointed and
(13:43):
you're the reason why they'redisappointed so often.
So that's a pretty horriblefeeling and why people can get
stuck in this dynamic.
Because if someone feels likethey're the disappointment all
the time or so often, that's notreally motivating for them to
do anything about it, becausethere's a huge hopelessness
about that, like, oh, no matterwhat I do, it's still not enough
.
No matter what I try, mypartner is still frustrated and
(14:04):
disappointed.
No matter how many great thingsI do, there's always one thing
that my partner says is wrongand so nobody can withstand that
.
It's not reasonable for anybodyto be able to just say, okay,
I'm going to keep trying, I'mgoing to keep trying and show up
and put in effort becausethey're not feeling safe.
So it makes sense that theywould go into, in polyvagal
terms, the dorsal shutdown, thatfreeze response, that collapse
(14:24):
response.
It looks like they're nottrying at all, but yet they're
hurting a great deal, andunderstanding what's really
going on can start to reallybegin to shift the dynamic.
I want to share a quote by LillaWatson that I think truly sums
up how to approach relationshipwork, and she is not talking
about one-to-one, intimatepartner relationships.
Lilla Watson is an activist andan educator, and she educates
(14:49):
people about the Aboriginalknowledge and culture in
Australia, and so what she'sreferring to is quite different.
In truth, it's also arelationship, and Lilla Watson's
quote is if you have come hereto help me, you are wasting your
time, but if you have comebecause your liberation is bound
up with mine, then let us worktogether.
And when I heard that quoteyears ago, I actually loved it
(15:10):
so much I made a poster of it tohang in my office because I
think that it really just pullsso much together about what
we're often doing that worksagainst us in relationship and
what to do instead.
And so if we're coming at ourrelationship as trying to help
our partner and fix our partnereven if it means we're trying to
help them to feel better, tonot be depressed, to be less
(15:33):
anxious, or if we're trying tocommunicate our needs so that we
feel better and ourrelationship feels better how we
go about that is so vitallyimportant, because if we're
doing things that contribute tous validating ourselves or being
validated by others in our life, yes, there are reasons why
we're frustrated.
It's not like that's not true.
(15:55):
This is about how to thinkabout it.
So we don't keep hurting ourpartner by unintentionally
sending these messages that wedon't think they're good enough,
or we don't think that they'retrying hard enough, or that we
know better than them, or thatthey don't care.
There are so many messages thatwe end up sending by accident
that really contribute torupture and separation and
disconnect, and if we do thingsthat contribute to that, then we
are absolutely not going to beable to get the relationship
(16:18):
that feels connected and safeand loving and warm, and be able
to work in partnership with ourpartner as we truly desire.
And so, really thinking aboutthat, how can we come together
because our our feeling betteras individuals is connected and
(16:39):
working together in a balancedpartnership, not where one
partner is taking the expertrole and the other partner is
then left with the not knowing,not good enough, disappointment
role how we can do that to beable to create real shifts and
changes in our relationship?
It's really quite exciting andI'm sure I've said this before,
(16:59):
but it's really how I feel.
I am regularly amazed andinspired and in awe of the
shifts that have occurred in myrelationship with my husband,
and we still have plenty ofgrowth to do.
Growth happens over a wholelifetime, but we have more and
more of these moments where I'mlike, hey, wow, we had that
conversation differently.
Remember years ago, when itwould have been a total mess,
(17:19):
right and so exciting.
And this is one of the coreshifts I think that are so
important to make.
So I will mention just a fewthings that you can actually do,
new ways you might be able tocome to your relationship that
can support breaking down thisdisappointed disappointment
dynamic, and I will expand onthem in the next episode, so I'm
just going to list them for now.
(17:41):
As I mentioned, my previousepisode talks a bit more about
this.
But regulating your nervoussystem is vitally important and
nervous system work might notsound like it resonates for
people like, oh, nervous system,what does that mean?
What does that have to do withanything?
It really has to do witheverything.
So I really do invite you andencourage you to seek out
information about nervous systemregulation and how it impacts
(18:02):
relationships.
As I said, you can check outsome previous episodes or you
can look elsewhere.
There's a lot of greatinformation out there.
But nervous system work is keyin understanding what we
actually need to do to shift ourexperience in a positive way.
And again, I will talk moreabout this next time.
But staying out of our story isincredibly important because our
brains like stories.
(18:22):
We like to make meaning.
So when things happen or ourpartner says something or does
something or doesn't dosomething, we make up a story
about why that is, and then weget all stuck in that story and
we get frustrated and more angryand feel more justified because
of these stories and thesenarratives that we make up.
So again, I will talk aboutwhat that event means.
But staying out of the storywill help you in so many ways
(18:44):
and it will open doors that youdid not even know existed.
And the third thing I willshare is for you to focus on how
you are contributing, or notcontributing, to the
relationship you want to have.
You will get so much moremileage and be so much more
empowered by thinking about whatyou're bringing to your
relationship.
Believe me, I know I havefocused on my husband and how he
(19:07):
has shown up or not shown up inthis relationship a huge amount
of the time in the last 21years, and I can tell you from
all that experience it's neverhelpful.
It's not helpful.
There are ways to talk about mynarratives and my stories, and
certainly my frustrations and myneeds.
Of course, I'm not saying thatthere's not information that
needs to be shared, but thatbrings me to my fourth point.
(19:28):
How to talk about all of thesethings is a game changer.
We must learn how tocommunicate effectively.
It's not something we're bornwith.
We're born with survival skills, not communication skills, and
so we have to learn them, and alot of the time, what we do in
service of survival actuallygoes against communicating well
in a way that supportsrelationship building.
(19:49):
Anamaga Relationship Therapy isall about how to communicate
effectively and reallyunderstand what's happening in
your experience and being ableto share that with your partner
in a way that really leads tochange.
So if you want to hear moreabout that and the new ways that
you can show up in yourrelationship that can create
significant change for you sothat your relationship feels
(20:09):
better for you and your partner,join me again next week.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI wanna thank you for showing
up today and I want to leave youwith an invitation as you hit
stop and move back out into theworld on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
(20:30):
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(20:53):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
, or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(21:16):
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today ispossible for everyone, including
you, and even when depressionis in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
(21:37):
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
(21:59):
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you ready to talk about acommon relationship dynamic that
is often underlying conflictsbetween partners and creates
roadblocks to change?
Would you like to betterunderstand how you can shift,
how you think about and addressyour frustrations with your
partner so you can actuallyimprove your relationship?
If so, join me today as I talkabout the disappointed and the
(00:24):
disappointment in relationship.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am delighted that you are
here.
Let's get started.
In the last few episodes, I'vebeen talking about how partners
can come together in partnershipand work on their relationship
and decide how to take stepstogether, instead of what often
happens in relationship, whichis that two partners often work
(00:45):
independently and oftenunintentionally, against each
other, and that really doesn'tyield a very positive result.
So I've been exploring howpartners can attune to
themselves and the relationshipand choose how to move forward
together so that they canactually be working as a team,
and in the last episode, Itouched on this incredibly
significant relationship dynamic.
(01:06):
That is absolutely one of thegreatest learnings or greatest
awarenesses that I developedafter attending the Getting the
Love you Want workshop that myhusband and I attended for the
first time when we wereseparated about 10 years ago,
and it was an awareness that Itook with me from my experience
in the workshop that created amonumental shift in my
(01:28):
relationship with my husband andhow I understood the conflicts
that we were experiencing andtherefore was able to actually
change how I approach theconflicts and make choices.
That actually created a helpfulconversation between the two of
us and allowed for a wholedifferent avenue of options to
be open to us.
So we were really able to takeon our relationship challenges
(01:50):
in a whole new way, and so Itouched on this concept in the
last episode and I immediatelyknew that I had to talk more
about it.
In Imago Relationship Therapy,which is the approach that I use
when working with partners inrelationship, there is this idea
of the disappointed and thedisappointment, and basically
what it means is that sooftentimes in a relationship,
(02:11):
one person commonly feelsdisappointed.
They're regularly frustrated,they're disappointed in how
their relationship feels, whattheir partner is doing.
They feel even possiblyexasperated by the level of
dissatisfaction that they havein the relationship, and then
the other partner oftentimesends up feeling like they are
the disappointment because theyseem to be the root cause of so
(02:34):
many of their partner'sfrustrations, and this dynamic
of one partner feeling like theyare the disappointed and the
other partner therefore becomingwhat feels like the
disappointment is absolutelypainful and it's something until
you realize that it's presentin your relationship.
If it is, in fact, present inyour relationship, you're really
likely to remain stuck in a lotof the frustrations and the
(02:57):
patterns of tension that you'reexperiencing with your partner.
I'm going to talk about thisthrough the framework of when
you're really trying to helpimprove your relationship and
that's what you really want tohave happen.
That's your intention.
That could be what you'rethinking about, or maybe it
isn't exactly what you'rethinking about.
Maybe you're focused on thefrustration, but underlying that
frustration is really a desireto help and improve and make
things feel better for you andyour partner.
(03:18):
So think through what ourintentions are, our underlying
intentions, and then connectthat to the unintended messages
that we often send by what wesay and what we do when we're
trying to help our relationship.
But it actually ends up fuelingthis disappointed
disappointment dynamic and itreally makes progress very
difficult.
So I'm going to share myexperience and the two main ways
(03:41):
that I'm going to talk abouthow this has shown up in my own
relationship is one in the ideaof when my husband was really
suffering with pretty severedepressive episodes, how I
addressed those and tried tohelp him.
And then also, in a little bitmore of a general sense, how,
when I was trying to share myfrustrations and, in fact, my
(04:02):
disappointments with my husband,how I did that in a way that
really created more problems formyself and the relationship
rather than help them, eventhough, of course, I didn't
realize any of that when I wasinitially doing it.
And even today, when I have avery clear understanding of this
dynamic, how I can still oftenfall into this sort of trap and
this old dynamic and I try tocatch myself as quickly as I can
(04:25):
.
That's the best I can really do, and I'll talk about some
things that can be helpful forshifting this dynamic as well.
So to begin just to think aboutthat idea of our intention
versus the unintended messagesthat we send when we're trying
to help our partner or improveour relationship when your
partner is depressed and they'restuck in that place, and going
(04:46):
back about 10 years, 11, 12years, my husband was, in fact,
pretty frequently stuck inmoderate to severe depressive
episodes and it was really hardfor all of us.
It was hard for me, it was hardfor him, it was hard for our
very young son back then as well, in a whole different way that
I won't touch on today.
And so my intention was, ofcourse, to help and make things
(05:11):
better.
And I'm a therapist after alland I've also lived with
depression my whole life, so Ihad a ton of professional and
personal experience that Ithought would be really valuable
to him.
So my heart was in the rightplace, so to speak, and I've
touched on this before in otherepisodes.
But I really put in a hugeamount of effort into trying to
support my husband through hisdepression.
I would encourage him to go totherapy and I would help him
(05:31):
look up therapists and look intoour insurance coverage, and I
had post-it notes on our bedroommirror with all these positive
affirmations and I bought booksfor him and shared articles with
him.
Back then I was not yet acertified Imago relationship
therapist, but I knew of thefoundational Imago book, which
(05:52):
is the Getting the Love you Wantbook, which is theory and
exercise for couples to be ableto communicate differently and
connect through theirdifferences.
So I owned that book back thenand we read the book together
and then when it came time to dothe exercises and he struggled
with an exercise or didn't havean answer to give at that moment
, I jumped in saying, hey, theseare your answers, these are the
hurts you've experienced.
I wanted him to understand whatwas going on for him.
(06:13):
I wanted him to understand histhoughts and his feelings
differently.
I was trying to be helpful.
That was really what myconscious thought was, and I had
a lot of feedback from otherpeople in my life about how
incredibly helpful I was and howI must be such a committed,
loving wife doing anything andeverything for my husband.
So I had a lot of validationthat what I was doing was
(06:33):
helpful at the time.
And it's not that what I wasdoing was awful in and of itself
.
It's not like those actionswere bad actions, and I talked a
little bit more about thispiece of it in one of my
previous episodes called whenHelping your Partner Hurts you
Both a nervous system approachto support, and I won't talk too
much about nervous systemstoday, but if today's episode
(06:54):
resonates with you, I wouldrecommend you going and checking
out that episode as well,because there's a huge nervous
system component piece to thatwhich, like I said, I'm not
going to dive into too deeplytoday, but it's definitely
present and very helpful tounderstand.
And back then I didn'tunderstand the nervous system
piece.
So it was very easy for me tosay I'm being helpful, I'm
trying to do the best I can, andit really became a dynamic
(07:14):
where I did start to experiencea great deal of disappointment
why isn't he helping himself?
Why isn't he doing these thingsthat he needs to do or should
do, which I talk about a lot.
Should is a judgment.
I didn't see it that way then,or realize that judgment was
creeping in, and so the more Iwas trying to help him feel
better, the more I was actuallyunintentionally sending him
messages that he was a letdownor that I knew better than him.
(07:38):
I definitely was coming as theexpert, the therapist, wife.
In trying to help him, I wascommunicating that there was
something wrong with him and ofcourse he was feeling like a
disappointment.
Of course he was feeling notgood enough.
Of course he was feeling likehe was letting me down.
Right, he didn't want to bedepressed, any more than I
didn't want him to be depressed.
So it wasn't like he wasn'ttrying to feel better.
(07:58):
He was just on his ownindividual journey and so much
of how I was coming to him wasreally communicating how
disappointed I was in him andhow incapable I thought he was,
which was not consciously what Ithought at all.
And I actually think that myhusband is an extraordinarily
capable person, which in part iswhy I was coming to him saying,
hey, do this, I know you can doit.
But I wasn't really saying thatpiece so clearly, the I believe
(08:22):
in you and I know that you cando this.
Not that I never said it, butit really wasn't probably the
top message that I was sending.
It was more like do this, trythis, this would help.
I was in so many waysunintentionally telling him how
I thought he should think andfeel and be in this world.
So no wonder none of that washelpful.
And again, when I went to theworkshop and I started to see my
(08:43):
role in the nightmare, as wecall it in Imago of our
relationship, how I wascontributing to these painful
dynamics, it really created animmediate shift for me and it
helped me a lot to respond backthen specifically to his
depression.
And the second example of howthis shows up in relationship
that I'll talk a bit about aswell is just the idea that when
(09:04):
you are trying to improve yourrelationship Depression aside
when you're frustrated and youwant your needs to be met and
you want to be heard, and you'retrying to communicate, and
those are all really reallyimportant things to do in a
relationship, so of course, theyneed to be done.
However, our approach to doingthem is often really not helpful
, and again these unintendedmessages get sent when we're
(09:25):
constantly talking to ourpartner about what's frustrating
us and we're telling them thatsomething is wrong with you.
Our intention is to help thingsget better, and yet our
approach often again contributesto this dynamic of you're
disappointing me, you're notgood enough, what's wrong with
you?
Why can't you do this better?
Why don't you just change that?
Here's another thing that youhave to work on, and it can
really pile on pretty quickly,and so it really is not
(09:48):
surprising that when I come withhim in frustration and say we
need to talk about this, he canrespond with some exasperation
or, oh you know, like what did Ido now?
Or what did I do wrong thistime?
And he might not actually saythose things to me, but I have
come to understand and realizethat that is what's underlying.
And I will also just sayquickly here that this just came
up for me in my relationshipwith my son, who's 13, just over
(10:11):
the last couple of weeks, wherewe were having a conversation
in the car about something thatwas going on with him and I was
trying to be supportive, tryingto be a mom, but again therapist
mom was creeping in.
I think I didn't realize it.
Thankfully, he said to me mom,every time we get in the car, do
we have to have a conversationlike this?
And I was like, oh right, likethis probably isn't that most
helpful approach.
(10:31):
I realized it and I was able topull back and I did
subsequently talk to my sonabout this very concept that I
am never trying to communicate,that he's a disappointment,
although I realized that maybe Isometimes do exactly that and I
definitely have done that andstill continue to do that with
my husband Not as often as Iused to, but I absolutely can
fall into that dynamic where itfeels like a lot of frustrations
(10:53):
are building and I can getstuck there sometimes.
I'm human, I'm imperfect andthough I continue to learn and
grow and expand my awareness.
I still make mistakes and thebest I can do is recognize them
and try to make a repair Right.
So if I'm hurting my husband orI'm sending this message that
he's a disappointment, then it'smy responsibility to repair
that.
And it doesn't mean that thefrustration doesn't need to get
(11:15):
addressed.
It's just there's a way toaddress the frustration and I
will touch on that in just a fewminutes.
I want to go back to the ideathat so many people in my life
validated me how hard I wastrying, how frustrating it was
it was, and it was so easy forme to almost feel sorry for
myself or just feel reallyjustified and like how awful it
was to be in this relationshipand how hard it was to be in
(11:35):
this relationship, which I'vesaid many times, and it's true,
my relationship has in fact beena very difficult relationship a
lot of the time, but it's notbecause of my husband, it is
because of us and ourdysregulation and the stories
that we have created around eachother and our relationship and
the stories that we brought intoour relationship from our
childhood experience and so muchmore.
(11:56):
That has been hard and when weactually are able to get to a
place of regulation and cometogether in partnership, which
is what this whole podcast isabout is how to come together
with your partner so that youcan co-create the relationship
you want to have, no matter whatyou're experiencing if
depression is present or anxietyor just life stress or whatever
(12:16):
it is there is absolutely a wayto come together and to make
that happen.
And so it was so easy for me tosee his impact on me and of
course, that makes sense.
If we feel hurt, we're going tonotice, ouch, that hurts.
And it makes sense that wewould want to tell somebody
about that, like hey, you'rehurting me, don't do that
anymore, or whatever we want tosay.
(12:37):
But it was harder for me to seehis experience and when I
started to realize how bad I wasunintentionally making him feel
and that's also complicated.
You can't really make someonefeel a certain way but, given
who he is and his experiences,his interpretations of what I
was doing and saying madecomplete and total sense and, as
I talked about in the otherepisode that I mentioned earlier
, there was a whole nervoussystem dynamic going on that I
(12:58):
wasn't feeling safe and calm andgrounded when I was helping him
.
I was in a mobilized fight,response like something bad is
happening to me, so I have to dosomething about it.
And so, of course, he wasfeeling attacked, right?
Of course he was going to feellike I had a negative
perspective about him because Iwas treating him in so many ways
like the enemy, even though Iconsciously would have said that
(13:20):
I was really trying to help andI was trying to help, but the
implementation was really reallyoff.
And so, once I started tounderstand the dynamic, I
started to have enormouscompassion for my husband and
not 100% of the time, in everyand all moments, by the way but
I started to really understand.
Gosh, it's been rough to bedisappointed so frequently, but
it must feel pretty awful tothink that the person that you
love, that you want to makehappy, is so disappointed and
(13:43):
you're the reason why they'redisappointed so often.
So that's a pretty horriblefeeling and why people can get
stuck in this dynamic.
Because if someone feels likethey're the disappointment all
the time or so often, that's notreally motivating for them to
do anything about it, becausethere's a huge hopelessness
about that, like, oh, no matterwhat I do, it's still not enough
.
No matter what I try, mypartner is still frustrated and
(14:04):
disappointed.
No matter how many great thingsI do, there's always one thing
that my partner says is wrongand so nobody can withstand that
.
It's not reasonable for anybodyto be able to just say, okay,
I'm going to keep trying, I'mgoing to keep trying and show up
and put in effort becausethey're not feeling safe.
So it makes sense that theywould go into, in polyvagal
terms, the dorsal shutdown, thatfreeze response, that collapse
(14:24):
response.
It looks like they're nottrying at all, but yet they're
hurting a great deal, andunderstanding what's really
going on can start to reallybegin to shift the dynamic.
I want to share a quote by LillaWatson that I think truly sums
up how to approach relationshipwork, and she is not talking
about one-to-one, intimatepartner relationships.
Lilla Watson is an activist andan educator, and she educates
(14:49):
people about the Aboriginalknowledge and culture in
Australia, and so what she'sreferring to is quite different.
In truth, it's also arelationship, and Lilla Watson's
quote is if you have come hereto help me, you are wasting your
time, but if you have comebecause your liberation is bound
up with mine, then let us worktogether.
And when I heard that quoteyears ago, I actually loved it
(15:10):
so much I made a poster of it tohang in my office because I
think that it really just pullsso much together about what
we're often doing that worksagainst us in relationship and
what to do instead.
And so if we're coming at ourrelationship as trying to help
our partner and fix our partnereven if it means we're trying to
help them to feel better, tonot be depressed, to be less
(15:33):
anxious, or if we're trying tocommunicate our needs so that we
feel better and ourrelationship feels better how we
go about that is so vitallyimportant, because if we're
doing things that contribute tous validating ourselves or being
validated by others in our life, yes, there are reasons why
we're frustrated.
It's not like that's not true.
(15:55):
This is about how to thinkabout it.
So we don't keep hurting ourpartner by unintentionally
sending these messages that wedon't think they're good enough,
or we don't think that they'retrying hard enough, or that we
know better than them, or thatthey don't care.
There are so many messages thatwe end up sending by accident
that really contribute torupture and separation and
disconnect, and if we do thingsthat contribute to that, then we
are absolutely not going to beable to get the relationship
(16:18):
that feels connected and safeand loving and warm, and be able
to work in partnership with ourpartner as we truly desire.
And so, really thinking aboutthat, how can we come together
because our our feeling betteras individuals is connected and
(16:39):
working together in a balancedpartnership, not where one
partner is taking the expertrole and the other partner is
then left with the not knowing,not good enough, disappointment
role how we can do that to beable to create real shifts and
changes in our relationship?
It's really quite exciting andI'm sure I've said this before,
(16:59):
but it's really how I feel.
I am regularly amazed andinspired and in awe of the
shifts that have occurred in myrelationship with my husband,
and we still have plenty ofgrowth to do.
Growth happens over a wholelifetime, but we have more and
more of these moments where I'mlike, hey, wow, we had that
conversation differently.
Remember years ago, when itwould have been a total mess,
(17:19):
right and so exciting.
And this is one of the coreshifts I think that are so
important to make.
So I will mention just a fewthings that you can actually do,
new ways you might be able tocome to your relationship that
can support breaking down thisdisappointed disappointment
dynamic, and I will expand onthem in the next episode, so I'm
just going to list them for now.
(17:41):
As I mentioned, my previousepisode talks a bit more about
this.
But regulating your nervoussystem is vitally important and
nervous system work might notsound like it resonates for
people like, oh, nervous system,what does that mean?
What does that have to do withanything?
It really has to do witheverything.
So I really do invite you andencourage you to seek out
information about nervous systemregulation and how it impacts
(18:02):
relationships.
As I said, you can check outsome previous episodes or you
can look elsewhere.
There's a lot of greatinformation out there.
But nervous system work is keyin understanding what we
actually need to do to shift ourexperience in a positive way.
And again, I will talk moreabout this next time.
But staying out of our story isincredibly important because our
brains like stories.
(18:22):
We like to make meaning.
So when things happen or ourpartner says something or does
something or doesn't dosomething, we make up a story
about why that is, and then weget all stuck in that story and
we get frustrated and more angryand feel more justified because
of these stories and thesenarratives that we make up.
So again, I will talk aboutwhat that event means.
But staying out of the storywill help you in so many ways
(18:44):
and it will open doors that youdid not even know existed.
And the third thing I willshare is for you to focus on how
you are contributing, or notcontributing, to the
relationship you want to have.
You will get so much moremileage and be so much more
empowered by thinking about whatyou're bringing to your
relationship.
Believe me, I know I havefocused on my husband and how he
(19:07):
has shown up or not shown up inthis relationship a huge amount
of the time in the last 21years, and I can tell you from
all that experience it's neverhelpful.
It's not helpful.
There are ways to talk about mynarratives and my stories, and
certainly my frustrations and myneeds.
Of course, I'm not saying thatthere's not information that
needs to be shared, but thatbrings me to my fourth point.
(19:28):
How to talk about all of thesethings is a game changer.
We must learn how tocommunicate effectively.
It's not something we're bornwith.
We're born with survival skills, not communication skills, and
so we have to learn them, and alot of the time, what we do in
service of survival actuallygoes against communicating well
in a way that supportsrelationship building.
(19:49):
Anamaga Relationship Therapy isall about how to communicate
effectively and reallyunderstand what's happening in
your experience and being ableto share that with your partner
in a way that really leads tochange.
So if you want to hear moreabout that and the new ways that
you can show up in yourrelationship that can create
significant change for you sothat your relationship feels
(20:09):
better for you and your partner,join me again next week.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI wanna thank you for showing
up today and I want to leave youwith an invitation as you hit
stop and move back out into theworld on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
(20:30):
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(20:53):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
, or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(21:16):
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today ispossible for everyone, including
you, and even when depressionis in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
(21:37):
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
(21:59):
a step.
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