June 18, 2025 • 24 mins
What if the secret to relationship transformation isn't trying harder alone, but working smartly together? That's the revolutionary concept at the heart of this episode, where I challenge the common myth that one person can (or should) do all the heavy lifting in a relationship.
Whether you've been carrying the relationship load by yourself or you've stepped back while your partner handles everything, this episode offers practical pathways toward true partnership. I share specific, actionable steps both partners can take together to create the relationship you deeply desire and genuinely deserve.
Communication stands as perhaps the most fundamental step couples can take together, though ironically it's often the most challenging. Our protective patterns—whether talking excessively or shutting down—can trigger our partners, creating a dance of disconnection that's hard to break. Finding structured ways to communicate helps partners speak in ways that make it safer for the other to hear.
We explore the surprising power of playfulness in relationships, the importance of cultivating physical intimacy separately from household partnership, how movement together breaks emotional stuckness, and why sharing dreams creates a relationship North Star. I explain why trying new experiences rekindles excitement and how cultivating genuine curiosity about your partner becomes possible when both feel emotionally safe.
This episode acknowledges reality: working as partners might feel awkward or challenging at first, especially if you've been disconnected for some time. Yet every joint step you take—no matter how small—builds momentum toward the relationship transformation you both desire. Your path to a deeply connected partnership doesn't require perfection, just willingness to begin moving forward together.
Ready to stop doing your relationship work alone? Listen now to discover the steps you can take together to create lasting change and real connection.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you tired of doing so muchof your relationship work all
alone?
Would you like to work morewith your partner in an actual
partnership?
I sure hope so, even if itfeels like you haven't been such
a great team recently.
Please join me today as I sharesome examples of steps you both
can take together to create therelationship you both desire
(00:23):
and deserve.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am delighted that you are
here.
Let's get started.
So the last several episodes Ihave been talking about my take
a step approach, and I spentseveral episodes talking about
how taking a step can apply forindividuals who are looking to
get out of that stuck,disconnected, depressed feeling
(00:44):
place.
And in the last episode Istarted talking about how we
could use that same take a stepapproach in a similar way for
relationships, so for bothpartners working together in
order to create the relationshipthat they want to have.
And in the last episode Idiscussed the importance of
working together and how oftenin our society we are actually
(01:04):
commonly fed a myth that oneperson can do all of the
relationship work or a big partof the relationship work the
idea of if one gear changes howit's turning, the whole system
will change, and while that'strue to a point, it doesn't
really make for a healthy,balanced, nourishing, meaningful
, enjoyable relationship forboth partners, and it's not just
(01:25):
a negative experience for thepartner in the relationship who
seems to be doing it all.
It's actually a veryproblematic arrangement for both
partners.
So if you're interested inhearing more about that, or if
you want to check out how thetake a step applies to
individuals, please go back andlisten to some of the previous
episodes.
Today, I'm actually going tostart talking about some
specific steps that partners cantake together, and this will
(01:47):
not be an exhaustive, completelist, because, in truth, you and
your partner need to worktogether to find out what step
truly makes sense for you.
I'm just going to review somevery important steps that can
really support relationshiptransformation, and you and your
partner can discuss themtogether and see if they're a
fit for you.
Now I do just want to mentionthat you may be in a place where
(02:08):
you're like yes, I want to workwith my partner, I'm ready to
work with my partner.
I've been asking my partner towork together for so long.
I'm ready for this.
Tell me what I need to do andif you're excited.
I'm so excited for you and I'mhere for you.
However, I also just want to say, without raining on your parade
, that there may be somechallenges, especially if you
and your partner haven't beenworking so well together as a
(02:31):
team or in partnership for awhile.
Then there's going to be alittle bit of learning of how we
do this together, and I'm notgoing to really talk about the
challenges today.
I'm actually going to talkabout some of the challenges in
the next episode and what youcan do to work with them.
But I just want to put it outthere that if you start trying
to work together and it doesn'tquite seem to be going very well
, that's probably to be expected, because it's something new and
(02:53):
you and your partner may nothave quite figured out how it
looks for the two of you yet,but you're on your way.
But just trying means you'retaking a step and you're on your
journey together.
So so I encourage you to keepworking together and keep trying
.
So, like I said, just like alittle warning, this may not be
as easy as it sounds, or youmight be very excited about it
and your partner may feel alittle weary about the idea for
(03:15):
a variety of reasons.
So, like I said, I'll talk moreabout that next week, but for
today, I'm just going to diveinto some of the steps that you
might be able to take together.
And I also add that, as Itouched on in the last episode,
to please remember thatself-regulation you working on
your own self-regulation, yourpartner working on their own
self-regulation is key in orderto have you both begin working
(03:35):
together.
And self-regulation essentiallyis getting your nervous system
back to a feeling of safety.
Dysregulation means that yournervous system feels unsafe and
many relationships feelemotionally unsafe for one or
both partners for a variety ofreasons that you will hear me
talk about over many of myepisodes, because it's the
common relationship problem.
It's the reason why so manyrelationships feel so hard or so
(03:57):
difficult or why partners don'twork together.
So, with all of that said, I'mgoing to dive into some of the
steps that you can think abouttaking with your partner.
So I have to say I don't knowif this should be the first step
, because it's actually one ofthe most challenging steps.
But as a couples therapist, andparticularly as an Imago
relationship therapist, we focuson using words and
(04:21):
communication.
So the first step that I'mgoing to talk about today is
taking a step with your partnertowards better, more effective
communication.
And again, this is probably amore challenging place to start,
so maybe this might not be yourfirst step, but it's important
to consider.
And, as I had just mentionedabout regulation and what causes
us to feel safe in relationshipor emotionally unsafe or
disconnected or feel like wehave to protect ourselves and go
(04:42):
into survival mode.
A lot of what causes us to gointo survival mode and
relationship is based on how wecommunicate or how we don't
communicate, and how wecommunicate is really based on
how we protect ourselves, andI'll dive deeper into that in
another episode, but for today,I'll share that the way that you
protect yourself may be justexactly the thing that makes
(05:02):
your partner feel threatened,and I can tell you, for example,
talking makes me feel protectedand safe.
I like to talk things out, Iwant to address things.
I want to share my thoughts andfeelings.
I don't always feel safe enoughto do that, but I definitely
use talking as both a connectingtool and also a defensive tool.
It protects me and sometimes Ican talk a lot and use a lot of
(05:23):
words that really kind of almostform like a shield around me.
I think that actually preventsme from getting close, but it
really is like this defensivebarrier and it makes me feel
safe.
However, especially when I'musing it as a shield and not
really as a connecting tool, mywords can feel extremely
threatening to my partner.
So when I talk about movingtowards better communication and
(05:46):
when he feels threatened, hemay very well go into his shell
or shut down or collapse or,using the language of the
nervous system, his system goesinto that dorsal shutdown and he
may not be available to hear mebecause he's feeling threatened
.
And then, of course, thereverse when he goes into his
shell, when he goes into thatdorsal shutdown, that often
feels like a real threat to me.
(06:07):
So he's feeling safe andprotected because he's avoiding
what he experiences as a threat,but then I feel threatened
because his shutdown feelsthreatening to me.
So you can see how this danceof dysregulation is very, very
easy to keep going.
And so communication again is atough place to start, but it's
so incredibly important and Imentioned that I'm an Imago
relationship therapist and theprimary tool that we use in
(06:30):
Imago relationship therapy andin the Getting the Love you Want
couples workshops that I run iswhat we call the Imago
intentional dialogue, and it isa structured way of
communicating.
So not only does it help youspeak in a way that makes it as
easy as possible for yourpartner to hopefully be able to
hear you well, but also it's aprocess of self-exploration,
being able to really dive intowhat your own experience is so
(06:51):
that you can share thataccurately, what your or some
other type of healer or coach tobe able to support you and your
partner in this process,especially if communication is
(07:11):
something that is tough for you,which it is commonly tough for
many couples.
And again, I am an Imagorelationship therapist, I'm also
a relationship coach and I runthese wonderful transformative
couples retreats to help supportcouples with communication.
So if you're interested inlearning more about those things
, you can go in the show notesand there's links to my upcoming
workshops and retreats.
(07:33):
The second step, which is oftenoverlooked and is incredibly
important for couples, is tolearn about the relationship, is
taking a step towards fun orplayfulness, and it is often not
valued and I mentioned thisbefore because for individuals
it's just as important, but oursociety doesn't really value
adults and fun or play.
It can be thought of asfrivolous, or sometimes we don't
know how to play anymore.
(07:54):
We've lost connection to ourability, to that carefree,
spontaneous ability, and so itcan be something that feels
awkward or uncomfortable evenfor some of us.
And yet being able to stretchinto play is so very important.
And going back to my ownpersonal example of how, when I
want to talk about something andmy husband might go into
shutdown, he would be completelyunavailable for me to talk to,
(08:16):
that doesn't really happenanymore.
After 21 years together, wehave figured out a new way.
However, something that he mightdo now is that when I try to
talk to him about somethingheavy, he might come back and
try to say something funny orlighthearted, and in the past,
that has really upset me and haslanded as a threat for me,
because I'm like are you nottaking this seriously?
Do you not care about this?
(08:37):
This is not important to you,you're not really listening to
me, you don't really care aboutwhat I have to say, and I had
all these narratives that I madeup about what was happening.
And now I've come to realize,while it might not always be the
best response from him.
It is something really valuablethat not everything has to be
heavy.
We don't have to talk and divedeep into every single thing,
(08:57):
every single moment.
Having lightness and fun andjoy and a little break from the
heaviness is really, reallyimportant, and it's truly been a
gift in my relationship that mypartner has been able to offer
me.
And again, this is something Icould definitely talk a lot more
about, because I don't meanthat when I'm talking about
something super serious and heis telling a joke or something,
that that's exactly the rightmoment for him to be trying to
(09:19):
take a step towards play.
That's not quite what I mean,but it's a learning experience.
It's more like about the energyand the opportunities that he
brings into our relationship.
That may be harder for me toaccess, and so sometimes fun,
lightheartedness may be harderfor me to access and it's more
available to him.
And there's a lot of partnersout there that are just like,
hey, can we just have some fun?
Like we're always having thesetough conversations or you're
(09:41):
always complaining, you'realways frustrated with me or
you're always disappointed.
Can we just go for a walk?
Can we go to a show?
Can we just, you know, dosomething fun together, and
sometimes for the person likemyself who wants to have the
conversation or wants to kind ofbe in that heavy place and kind
of dive into all that, we cantake that as a real negative.
But yet it's actually thisincredible opportunity when it's
(10:06):
addressed and used in a waythat addresses the need to go
into the hard stuff and it alsoaddresses the need for us to be
able to be light.
And so for me, sometimes I feellike, well, I can't have fun
until I address the hard stuff.
And sometimes that's true, but,as counterintuitive as it may
seem, in reality, if we can dosomething fun or playful, even
if it's just a moment, you don'thave to spend hours doing
(10:26):
something that you guys considerfun.
That might not be accessible ifyou're in a moment of tension
or conflict, but just taking abreath, taking a moment, being
able to share a little laughtogether or something that
brings a little bit of lightnessin, that can be really helpful
to be able to connect, and thenyou might actually be better
equipped to have the hardconversations.
So, again, this is somethingthat a lot of people have to
(10:46):
work on and grow through.
I know that that's true for mebecause for a very long time I
have felt for many, many yearsactually that I can't just be
fun and have a good time withoutaddressing the serious stuff.
And now I've come to realizethat sometimes we need to put
the serious stuff on hold justfor a moment.
And I know there can be a fearthat we're not going to get back
to the serious stuff if we putit on hold for a moment.
(11:06):
And again, I know that that's awhole other conversation, but
to know that taking a steptowards being able to enjoy time
together, getting out for walksin nature, doing a hobby that
one of you enjoys and be able toshare that with the other
partner, those kinds of thingscan be incredibly powerful and
they really support a foundationto do some of the deeper,
harder work.
And having fun is fun.
(11:28):
So it's really worth it becausein my opinion, personally and
professionally, the purpose oflife is to enjoy ourselves, not
always to be happy, but toreally create a life that is
good for us, because when wecreate a life that is good for
us, we create ripple effect andwe create lives that are better
for the people that are aroundus and that can expand to the
entire world.
So that's my personalphilosophy.
(11:49):
So having fun is reallyimportant to that philosophy,
even though sometimes having funis actually hard for me, even
as a play therapist.
But again, more on that anothertime.
Another really important stepthat can be tough to take but is
also vitally important foralmost all couples is being able
to take a step towards physicalintimacy, affection and sex.
And again, this can be a verytough area, especially if
(12:11):
there's a lot of dysregulationgoing on, a lot of that either
fight or flight, sympatheticenergy, arguing, fighting,
trying to quote-unquote helpyour partner, or a lot of that
dorsal collapse, shutdown,avoidance, all of that kind of
stuff happening, or it might goalong with that experience.
But if there also has been along history of not having a
satisfying sex life or nothaving regular physical intimacy
(12:33):
, this can be certainlychallenging, and yet it's also
very important.
And even in relationships thatare going well that may not have
that level of highdysregulation, you might find
that your physical intimacy andsex life may not be satisfying.
And that's because running ahousehold together is different
than putting effort intoenjoying yourselves physically
(12:54):
as intimate romantic partners,and so you really need to give
attention to that in its own wayand take steps towards
repairing, healing and creatingsomething that's delicious and
joyful and sexy and wonderfulfor both of you.
And you also may need to go toa therapist a couples therapist,
a sex therapist to support you,because the truth is is that a
lot of us were not taught goodcommunication skills, but,
(13:16):
specifically, we were not taughtgood skills for how to talk
about sex and physical intimacy,what we want, what we don't
want, what our fantasies are,what doesn't feel good, what we
do like all of that stuff.
We don't have great languagefor that in our society at all,
and we have a ton of very mixedand challenging messages around
sex in our society.
So it's a very challengingtopic and I am excited to share
(13:39):
that.
At some point hopefully laterthis year I will be starting to
offer a satisfying sex forcommitted couples workshop, and
that I am planning to do online.
So if you're interested, staytuned.
It's a way for the couples tobe able to have the talks that
they really need to have so thatthey can have the sex life that
they really are longing to have.
Another important step thatcouples can really think about
(14:00):
taking together is taking a steptowards movement and that can
be many, many different things.
It can be just going out forwalks or on the block.
If you have a dog, you can walkthe dog together.
That's great movement.
It could be going to a danceclass together or a yoga class
or going to the gym together.
It could be organized.
It could be much lessstructured, whatever kind of
(14:21):
works for you.
But couples can get very stuck.
They get stuck in theirpatterns, they get stuck in the
dysregulation, they get stuck inthese old ways of doing things
and it can be really painful andit can be really hard to get
out of that stuckness.
And just moving together andyou can talk and walk.
You know you can talk and moveand that can be okay sometimes.
(14:43):
But physically moving togethercan actually help unstuck a lot
of that emotional stuckness andkind of really get things moving
and get things connected andhelp you feel more connected to
one another.
The idea of taking a step isreally about tuning into
yourself and, of course, whenyou're doing this with your
partner, your partner tuninginto themselves and deciding
what is the next step that weneed to take from this place
(15:07):
where we are today, in thismoment.
Where should we go from hereright now, and if movement in
general feels like, oh, that wedo feel stuck a lot of the time
and we do want to move out ofthese old patterns and we want
something new, then you mighttry to think about ways to more
regularly incorporate thingslike movement and fun, for that
matter.
As a matter of fact, anotherreally powerful step that
(15:27):
couples can take is taking astep towards dreaming or
visioning for your future andwhat kind of relationship you
both want, and you might havesome different parts of your
vision as well.
You might not agree oneverything that you want for the
future, but it is really reallyhelpful.
A vision can hold a coupletogether, meaning that it can be
like their North Star thatyou're working towards, and it
actually believe it or not.
(15:48):
Doesn't even matter if youobtain what your goal is or if
you get to the goal that you set.
It's actually about the process, and it's totally cliche.
And it's also totally true thatlife is not about the
destination but rather about thejourney, and it's so applies to
relationships.
And, of course, when you have avision and you have things you
want to move towards, you willget some of those things as well
(16:10):
, which is also really lovely,but working together in
partnership it really supportsthat.
And even just having thatconversation of like, hey, what
do you want?
What do you want our life tofeel like?
What do you want to be a partof our relationship, what's
important to you, that can be areally really beautiful
conversation.
It also might be a very hardconversation.
Some people really finddreaming to be challenging,
(16:30):
which has to do with our earlierlife experience, our experience
growing up in our family.
So much information to coverbut only one little episode to
share it in.
So more on that another time.
So this is a step that mightalso apply to other steps that
I've already mentioned, but itdeserves its own category, I
think, because it is a specifickind of step and it's a step
towards doing something new,something that has some level of
(16:53):
novelty attached to it thatneither of you have ever done
before.
As I mentioned before when Italked about taking a step
towards fun, you might dosomething that your partner does
already.
That's new to you and that'scertainly wonderful, and we can
absolutely include that in thetaking a step towards something
new category.
However, I also want to addthat taking a step together
towards something brand new forboth of you can be extremely
(17:15):
connecting and really helpful.
Again, it's getting you out ofold patterns.
You can do this in regards tofun and playfulness, something
that both of you think might befun.
You could do this in terms ofphysical intimacy and sex,
trying new things in the bedrooma wonderful place to bring
novelty in and something new.
Fantasies are really great.
You can try things out and playAgain, a lot of playfulness.
(17:37):
When it comes to movement, youmight try something new together
, being able to take a steptowards something new.
If you think about your earlydays in your relationship,
everything was new, right, andit felt exciting because of that
.
Or if you think about a youngchild and the amount of wonder
that they have, becauseeverything is new, you know, and
how exciting that is and howyou can explore and how you can
(18:00):
test things out and try thingsout and learn new things, and
that's a very exciting processand a very connecting process to
do together.
So, again, it can kind of fitunder some of the other
categories, but it's reallyworth thinking about in its own
way.
How can we bring some newthings into our relationship
together and kind of shake it up, because even couples who are
doing a great job in theirday-to-day routine of paying the
(18:23):
bills and doing the dishes andthe laundry, and maybe taking
care of the kids or the pets, orwork or whatever all of those
things, you might be doing agreat job and those might be
satisfying parts of your life.
However, all of that is not new.
It's also part of the reasonwhy you have to work on physical
intimacy and sex separately,because all that stuff also is
not necessarily sexy.
But when you're kind of in thatsame old same old place, like
(18:44):
doing the same thing every day,sometimes, just a little bit of
newness can breathe a lot offresh air into a relationship,
and so it can be really excitingand really fun to do that
together.
Now, the last thing that I willshare for today as far as
examples of steps that you mighttake with your partner and it's
a little bit of an interestingone, I think, but it's the idea
of taking a step towardscuriosity.
(19:05):
And I say it's interestingbecause curiosity is only
available to us when our nervoussystems feel safe, like what's
going on here.
If we're feeling threatened,we're not going to feel curious,
for in a survival state orfeeling protective, we're not
going to have access to thatcuriosity.
So, again, you being in a safeplace, your partner making sure
that their nervous system is ina safe place so that you're able
to connect and be curious abouteach other.
(19:26):
And if you find yourself movingout of curiosity or moving into
judgment of some sort, like ifyou're saying what's a new thing
you'd like to try, and yourpartner says I'd like to go
skydiving, and you're just likewhat, that's crazy, I'm not
doing that Then it's a good signthat your nervous system has
moved out of feeling safe.
And it might just be a littletiny bit.
You might not be totallydysregulated and feeling like
(19:46):
you need to run or hide or fight, but you might just have a
flavor, that flavor of judgment,coming to that and say, huh,
really Skydiving.
Huh, what excites you aboutthat?
And it doesn't mean you have todo it.
You don't have to agree witheverything your partner says and
this process of figuring outhow to take a step together
you're not going to agree everysingle time on what step feels
like you can take together.
And I touched on this in thelast episode, that sometimes
(20:08):
that feeling of like, oh, mypartner wants something
different than I do can be areal threat to us and that can
cause dysregulation and make ournervous systems feel like it
has to protect us.
And so, really to keep in mindthat this is a process of
figuring out how to work inpartnership, and these are just
ideas that you can begin to haveconversations and explore and
wonder together.
And again, that's where thiscuriosity comes in.
(20:30):
But to think about how can I bemore curious, how can we take a
step towards curiosity abouteach other together?
And again, this is anothercategory that might span over
other categories how can I becurious about the argument that
we had this morning?
How can I be curious about yourperspective, which is a lot
about how to communicateeffectively, right?
Or how can I be curious aboutwhat's fun for you, or about why
(20:51):
you have that hobby thatdoesn't seem very interesting to
me, but can I be curious aboutthat, even if I end up not
really liking it, if it's not mything?
How can I show up with opennessto that experience, to share it
with you in a different waythan maybe if I just shut it
down?
You can be curious about whatdo you like in the bedroom, what
feels good, what doesn't feelgood, what turns you on.
Those are great, juicy,delicious conversations to have,
(21:11):
and, again, they can only behad when you're in a place of
safety, just like the idea ofstepping towards newness,
stepping towards curiosity, canapply to many categories, but
it's really worth thinking abouton its own and seeing where it
can apply.
So those are the steps that Iwill talk about today.
If you and your partner think ofsome other steps that really
feel good and positive and rightfor you, I totally encourage
you to share them with me.
(21:32):
I would love to hear about whatsteps you and your partner are
taking, and again, this can bemore challenging than it seems
because, realistically, we wantto work in connection, we want
to work in partnership, butbecause of our histories, our
childhood, where we come from,our family, the experiences
we've had already in ourpartnership, we might not feel
like working together is safe,and so this is not necessarily
(21:54):
something that will changeovernight, but it also doesn't
have to take a super long timeto change.
So this is again the experienceof tuning into yourself,
getting your nervous system to aplace that feels safe and your
partner doing the same and beingable to come together and
really attune to not just you oryour partner not just attuning
to them, but both of youattuning to and paying attention
(22:14):
to what the relationship needs.
And again, in this moment,right now, in this place, what
step feels like it makes sensefrom here, where we are today,
what step you might taketomorrow or next week or next
month might be very different,and that's okay and that's all a
part of this process.
This is how to take a steptowards working together in
partnership, because that'sreally the only way that you can
(22:35):
make a healthy, nourishing,satisfying relationship for both
of you.
So tune in next week and I'lltalk more about how to grow
through some of the challengesthat may come up as you work on
taking a step with your partner.
I look forward to connectingwith you next time.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
(22:58):
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
(23:19):
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
(23:42):
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
(24:06):
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
(24:26):
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you tired of doing so muchof your relationship work all
alone?
Would you like to work morewith your partner in an actual
partnership?
I sure hope so, even if itfeels like you haven't been such
a great team recently.
Please join me today as I sharesome examples of steps you both
can take together to create therelationship you both desire
(00:23):
and deserve.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am delighted that you are
here.
Let's get started.
So the last several episodes Ihave been talking about my take
a step approach, and I spentseveral episodes talking about
how taking a step can apply forindividuals who are looking to
get out of that stuck,disconnected, depressed feeling
(00:44):
place.
And in the last episode Istarted talking about how we
could use that same take a stepapproach in a similar way for
relationships, so for bothpartners working together in
order to create the relationshipthat they want to have.
And in the last episode Idiscussed the importance of
working together and how oftenin our society we are actually
(01:04):
commonly fed a myth that oneperson can do all of the
relationship work or a big partof the relationship work the
idea of if one gear changes howit's turning, the whole system
will change, and while that'strue to a point, it doesn't
really make for a healthy,balanced, nourishing, meaningful
, enjoyable relationship forboth partners, and it's not just
(01:25):
a negative experience for thepartner in the relationship who
seems to be doing it all.
It's actually a veryproblematic arrangement for both
partners.
So if you're interested inhearing more about that, or if
you want to check out how thetake a step applies to
individuals, please go back andlisten to some of the previous
episodes.
Today, I'm actually going tostart talking about some
specific steps that partners cantake together, and this will
(01:47):
not be an exhaustive, completelist, because, in truth, you and
your partner need to worktogether to find out what step
truly makes sense for you.
I'm just going to review somevery important steps that can
really support relationshiptransformation, and you and your
partner can discuss themtogether and see if they're a
fit for you.
Now I do just want to mentionthat you may be in a place where
(02:08):
you're like yes, I want to workwith my partner, I'm ready to
work with my partner.
I've been asking my partner towork together for so long.
I'm ready for this.
Tell me what I need to do andif you're excited.
I'm so excited for you and I'mhere for you.
However, I also just want to say, without raining on your parade
, that there may be somechallenges, especially if you
and your partner haven't beenworking so well together as a
(02:31):
team or in partnership for awhile.
Then there's going to be alittle bit of learning of how we
do this together, and I'm notgoing to really talk about the
challenges today.
I'm actually going to talkabout some of the challenges in
the next episode and what youcan do to work with them.
But I just want to put it outthere that if you start trying
to work together and it doesn'tquite seem to be going very well
, that's probably to be expected, because it's something new and
(02:53):
you and your partner may nothave quite figured out how it
looks for the two of you yet,but you're on your way.
But just trying means you'retaking a step and you're on your
journey together.
So so I encourage you to keepworking together and keep trying
.
So, like I said, just like alittle warning, this may not be
as easy as it sounds, or youmight be very excited about it
and your partner may feel alittle weary about the idea for
(03:15):
a variety of reasons.
So, like I said, I'll talk moreabout that next week, but for
today, I'm just going to diveinto some of the steps that you
might be able to take together.
And I also add that, as Itouched on in the last episode,
to please remember thatself-regulation you working on
your own self-regulation, yourpartner working on their own
self-regulation is key in orderto have you both begin working
(03:35):
together.
And self-regulation essentiallyis getting your nervous system
back to a feeling of safety.
Dysregulation means that yournervous system feels unsafe and
many relationships feelemotionally unsafe for one or
both partners for a variety ofreasons that you will hear me
talk about over many of myepisodes, because it's the
common relationship problem.
It's the reason why so manyrelationships feel so hard or so
(03:57):
difficult or why partners don'twork together.
So, with all of that said, I'mgoing to dive into some of the
steps that you can think abouttaking with your partner.
So I have to say I don't knowif this should be the first step
, because it's actually one ofthe most challenging steps.
But as a couples therapist, andparticularly as an Imago
relationship therapist, we focuson using words and
(04:21):
communication.
So the first step that I'mgoing to talk about today is
taking a step with your partnertowards better, more effective
communication.
And again, this is probably amore challenging place to start,
so maybe this might not be yourfirst step, but it's important
to consider.
And, as I had just mentionedabout regulation and what causes
us to feel safe in relationshipor emotionally unsafe or
disconnected or feel like wehave to protect ourselves and go
(04:42):
into survival mode.
A lot of what causes us to gointo survival mode and
relationship is based on how wecommunicate or how we don't
communicate, and how wecommunicate is really based on
how we protect ourselves, andI'll dive deeper into that in
another episode, but for today,I'll share that the way that you
protect yourself may be justexactly the thing that makes
(05:02):
your partner feel threatened,and I can tell you, for example,
talking makes me feel protectedand safe.
I like to talk things out, Iwant to address things.
I want to share my thoughts andfeelings.
I don't always feel safe enoughto do that, but I definitely
use talking as both a connectingtool and also a defensive tool.
It protects me and sometimes Ican talk a lot and use a lot of
(05:23):
words that really kind of almostform like a shield around me.
I think that actually preventsme from getting close, but it
really is like this defensivebarrier and it makes me feel
safe.
However, especially when I'musing it as a shield and not
really as a connecting tool, mywords can feel extremely
threatening to my partner.
So when I talk about movingtowards better communication and
(05:46):
when he feels threatened, hemay very well go into his shell
or shut down or collapse or,using the language of the
nervous system, his system goesinto that dorsal shutdown and he
may not be available to hear mebecause he's feeling threatened
.
And then, of course, thereverse when he goes into his
shell, when he goes into thatdorsal shutdown, that often
feels like a real threat to me.
(06:07):
So he's feeling safe andprotected because he's avoiding
what he experiences as a threat,but then I feel threatened
because his shutdown feelsthreatening to me.
So you can see how this danceof dysregulation is very, very
easy to keep going.
And so communication again is atough place to start, but it's
so incredibly important and Imentioned that I'm an Imago
relationship therapist and theprimary tool that we use in
(06:30):
Imago relationship therapy andin the Getting the Love you Want
couples workshops that I run iswhat we call the Imago
intentional dialogue, and it isa structured way of
communicating.
So not only does it help youspeak in a way that makes it as
easy as possible for yourpartner to hopefully be able to
hear you well, but also it's aprocess of self-exploration,
being able to really dive intowhat your own experience is so
(06:51):
that you can share thataccurately, what your or some
other type of healer or coach tobe able to support you and your
partner in this process,especially if communication is
(07:11):
something that is tough for you,which it is commonly tough for
many couples.
And again, I am an Imagorelationship therapist, I'm also
a relationship coach and I runthese wonderful transformative
couples retreats to help supportcouples with communication.
So if you're interested inlearning more about those things
, you can go in the show notesand there's links to my upcoming
workshops and retreats.
(07:33):
The second step, which is oftenoverlooked and is incredibly
important for couples, is tolearn about the relationship, is
taking a step towards fun orplayfulness, and it is often not
valued and I mentioned thisbefore because for individuals
it's just as important, but oursociety doesn't really value
adults and fun or play.
It can be thought of asfrivolous, or sometimes we don't
know how to play anymore.
(07:54):
We've lost connection to ourability, to that carefree,
spontaneous ability, and so itcan be something that feels
awkward or uncomfortable evenfor some of us.
And yet being able to stretchinto play is so very important.
And going back to my ownpersonal example of how, when I
want to talk about something andmy husband might go into
shutdown, he would be completelyunavailable for me to talk to,
(08:16):
that doesn't really happenanymore.
After 21 years together, wehave figured out a new way.
However, something that he mightdo now is that when I try to
talk to him about somethingheavy, he might come back and
try to say something funny orlighthearted, and in the past,
that has really upset me and haslanded as a threat for me,
because I'm like are you nottaking this seriously?
Do you not care about this?
(08:37):
This is not important to you,you're not really listening to
me, you don't really care aboutwhat I have to say, and I had
all these narratives that I madeup about what was happening.
And now I've come to realize,while it might not always be the
best response from him.
It is something really valuablethat not everything has to be
heavy.
We don't have to talk and divedeep into every single thing,
(08:57):
every single moment.
Having lightness and fun andjoy and a little break from the
heaviness is really, reallyimportant, and it's truly been a
gift in my relationship that mypartner has been able to offer
me.
And again, this is something Icould definitely talk a lot more
about, because I don't meanthat when I'm talking about
something super serious and heis telling a joke or something,
that that's exactly the rightmoment for him to be trying to
(09:19):
take a step towards play.
That's not quite what I mean,but it's a learning experience.
It's more like about the energyand the opportunities that he
brings into our relationship.
That may be harder for me toaccess, and so sometimes fun,
lightheartedness may be harderfor me to access and it's more
available to him.
And there's a lot of partnersout there that are just like,
hey, can we just have some fun?
Like we're always having thesetough conversations or you're
(09:41):
always complaining, you'realways frustrated with me or
you're always disappointed.
Can we just go for a walk?
Can we go to a show?
Can we just, you know, dosomething fun together, and
sometimes for the person likemyself who wants to have the
conversation or wants to kind ofbe in that heavy place and kind
of dive into all that, we cantake that as a real negative.
But yet it's actually thisincredible opportunity when it's
(10:06):
addressed and used in a waythat addresses the need to go
into the hard stuff and it alsoaddresses the need for us to be
able to be light.
And so for me, sometimes I feellike, well, I can't have fun
until I address the hard stuff.
And sometimes that's true, but,as counterintuitive as it may
seem, in reality, if we can dosomething fun or playful, even
if it's just a moment, you don'thave to spend hours doing
(10:26):
something that you guys considerfun.
That might not be accessible ifyou're in a moment of tension
or conflict, but just taking abreath, taking a moment, being
able to share a little laughtogether or something that
brings a little bit of lightnessin, that can be really helpful
to be able to connect, and thenyou might actually be better
equipped to have the hardconversations.
So, again, this is somethingthat a lot of people have to
(10:46):
work on and grow through.
I know that that's true for mebecause for a very long time I
have felt for many, many yearsactually that I can't just be
fun and have a good time withoutaddressing the serious stuff.
And now I've come to realizethat sometimes we need to put
the serious stuff on hold justfor a moment.
And I know there can be a fearthat we're not going to get back
to the serious stuff if we putit on hold for a moment.
(11:06):
And again, I know that that's awhole other conversation, but
to know that taking a steptowards being able to enjoy time
together, getting out for walksin nature, doing a hobby that
one of you enjoys and be able toshare that with the other
partner, those kinds of thingscan be incredibly powerful and
they really support a foundationto do some of the deeper,
harder work.
And having fun is fun.
(11:28):
So it's really worth it becausein my opinion, personally and
professionally, the purpose oflife is to enjoy ourselves, not
always to be happy, but toreally create a life that is
good for us, because when wecreate a life that is good for
us, we create ripple effect andwe create lives that are better
for the people that are aroundus and that can expand to the
entire world.
So that's my personalphilosophy.
(11:49):
So having fun is reallyimportant to that philosophy,
even though sometimes having funis actually hard for me, even
as a play therapist.
But again, more on that anothertime.
Another really important stepthat can be tough to take but is
also vitally important foralmost all couples is being able
to take a step towards physicalintimacy, affection and sex.
And again, this can be a verytough area, especially if
(12:11):
there's a lot of dysregulationgoing on, a lot of that either
fight or flight, sympatheticenergy, arguing, fighting,
trying to quote-unquote helpyour partner, or a lot of that
dorsal collapse, shutdown,avoidance, all of that kind of
stuff happening, or it might goalong with that experience.
But if there also has been along history of not having a
satisfying sex life or nothaving regular physical intimacy
(12:33):
, this can be certainlychallenging, and yet it's also
very important.
And even in relationships thatare going well that may not have
that level of highdysregulation, you might find
that your physical intimacy andsex life may not be satisfying.
And that's because running ahousehold together is different
than putting effort intoenjoying yourselves physically
(12:54):
as intimate romantic partners,and so you really need to give
attention to that in its own wayand take steps towards
repairing, healing and creatingsomething that's delicious and
joyful and sexy and wonderfulfor both of you.
And you also may need to go toa therapist a couples therapist,
a sex therapist to support you,because the truth is is that a
lot of us were not taught goodcommunication skills, but,
(13:16):
specifically, we were not taughtgood skills for how to talk
about sex and physical intimacy,what we want, what we don't
want, what our fantasies are,what doesn't feel good, what we
do like all of that stuff.
We don't have great languagefor that in our society at all,
and we have a ton of very mixedand challenging messages around
sex in our society.
So it's a very challengingtopic and I am excited to share
(13:39):
that.
At some point hopefully laterthis year I will be starting to
offer a satisfying sex forcommitted couples workshop, and
that I am planning to do online.
So if you're interested, staytuned.
It's a way for the couples tobe able to have the talks that
they really need to have so thatthey can have the sex life that
they really are longing to have.
Another important step thatcouples can really think about
(14:00):
taking together is taking a steptowards movement and that can
be many, many different things.
It can be just going out forwalks or on the block.
If you have a dog, you can walkthe dog together.
That's great movement.
It could be going to a danceclass together or a yoga class
or going to the gym together.
It could be organized.
It could be much lessstructured, whatever kind of
(14:21):
works for you.
But couples can get very stuck.
They get stuck in theirpatterns, they get stuck in the
dysregulation, they get stuck inthese old ways of doing things
and it can be really painful andit can be really hard to get
out of that stuckness.
And just moving together andyou can talk and walk.
You know you can talk and moveand that can be okay sometimes.
(14:43):
But physically moving togethercan actually help unstuck a lot
of that emotional stuckness andkind of really get things moving
and get things connected andhelp you feel more connected to
one another.
The idea of taking a step isreally about tuning into
yourself and, of course, whenyou're doing this with your
partner, your partner tuninginto themselves and deciding
what is the next step that weneed to take from this place
(15:07):
where we are today, in thismoment.
Where should we go from hereright now, and if movement in
general feels like, oh, that wedo feel stuck a lot of the time
and we do want to move out ofthese old patterns and we want
something new, then you mighttry to think about ways to more
regularly incorporate thingslike movement and fun, for that
matter.
As a matter of fact, anotherreally powerful step that
(15:27):
couples can take is taking astep towards dreaming or
visioning for your future andwhat kind of relationship you
both want, and you might havesome different parts of your
vision as well.
You might not agree oneverything that you want for the
future, but it is really reallyhelpful.
A vision can hold a coupletogether, meaning that it can be
like their North Star thatyou're working towards, and it
actually believe it or not.
(15:48):
Doesn't even matter if youobtain what your goal is or if
you get to the goal that you set.
It's actually about the process, and it's totally cliche.
And it's also totally true thatlife is not about the
destination but rather about thejourney, and it's so applies to
relationships.
And, of course, when you have avision and you have things you
want to move towards, you willget some of those things as well
(16:10):
, which is also really lovely,but working together in
partnership it really supportsthat.
And even just having thatconversation of like, hey, what
do you want?
What do you want our life tofeel like?
What do you want to be a partof our relationship, what's
important to you, that can be areally really beautiful
conversation.
It also might be a very hardconversation.
Some people really finddreaming to be challenging,
(16:30):
which has to do with our earlierlife experience, our experience
growing up in our family.
So much information to coverbut only one little episode to
share it in.
So more on that another time.
So this is a step that mightalso apply to other steps that
I've already mentioned, but itdeserves its own category, I
think, because it is a specifickind of step and it's a step
towards doing something new,something that has some level of
(16:53):
novelty attached to it thatneither of you have ever done
before.
As I mentioned before when Italked about taking a step
towards fun, you might dosomething that your partner does
already.
That's new to you and that'scertainly wonderful, and we can
absolutely include that in thetaking a step towards something
new category.
However, I also want to addthat taking a step together
towards something brand new forboth of you can be extremely
(17:15):
connecting and really helpful.
Again, it's getting you out ofold patterns.
You can do this in regards tofun and playfulness, something
that both of you think might befun.
You could do this in terms ofphysical intimacy and sex,
trying new things in the bedrooma wonderful place to bring
novelty in and something new.
Fantasies are really great.
You can try things out and playAgain, a lot of playfulness.
(17:37):
When it comes to movement, youmight try something new together
, being able to take a steptowards something new.
If you think about your earlydays in your relationship,
everything was new, right, andit felt exciting because of that
.
Or if you think about a youngchild and the amount of wonder
that they have, becauseeverything is new, you know, and
how exciting that is and howyou can explore and how you can
(18:00):
test things out and try thingsout and learn new things, and
that's a very exciting processand a very connecting process to
do together.
So, again, it can kind of fitunder some of the other
categories, but it's reallyworth thinking about in its own
way.
How can we bring some newthings into our relationship
together and kind of shake it up, because even couples who are
doing a great job in theirday-to-day routine of paying the
(18:23):
bills and doing the dishes andthe laundry, and maybe taking
care of the kids or the pets, orwork or whatever all of those
things, you might be doing agreat job and those might be
satisfying parts of your life.
However, all of that is not new.
It's also part of the reasonwhy you have to work on physical
intimacy and sex separately,because all that stuff also is
not necessarily sexy.
But when you're kind of in thatsame old same old place, like
(18:44):
doing the same thing every day,sometimes, just a little bit of
newness can breathe a lot offresh air into a relationship,
and so it can be really excitingand really fun to do that
together.
Now, the last thing that I willshare for today as far as
examples of steps that you mighttake with your partner and it's
a little bit of an interestingone, I think, but it's the idea
of taking a step towardscuriosity.
(19:05):
And I say it's interestingbecause curiosity is only
available to us when our nervoussystems feel safe, like what's
going on here.
If we're feeling threatened,we're not going to feel curious,
for in a survival state orfeeling protective, we're not
going to have access to thatcuriosity.
So, again, you being in a safeplace, your partner making sure
that their nervous system is ina safe place so that you're able
to connect and be curious abouteach other.
(19:26):
And if you find yourself movingout of curiosity or moving into
judgment of some sort, like ifyou're saying what's a new thing
you'd like to try, and yourpartner says I'd like to go
skydiving, and you're just likewhat, that's crazy, I'm not
doing that Then it's a good signthat your nervous system has
moved out of feeling safe.
And it might just be a littletiny bit.
You might not be totallydysregulated and feeling like
(19:46):
you need to run or hide or fight, but you might just have a
flavor, that flavor of judgment,coming to that and say, huh,
really Skydiving.
Huh, what excites you aboutthat?
And it doesn't mean you have todo it.
You don't have to agree witheverything your partner says and
this process of figuring outhow to take a step together
you're not going to agree everysingle time on what step feels
like you can take together.
And I touched on this in thelast episode, that sometimes
(20:08):
that feeling of like, oh, mypartner wants something
different than I do can be areal threat to us and that can
cause dysregulation and make ournervous systems feel like it
has to protect us.
And so, really to keep in mindthat this is a process of
figuring out how to work inpartnership, and these are just
ideas that you can begin to haveconversations and explore and
wonder together.
And again, that's where thiscuriosity comes in.
(20:30):
But to think about how can I bemore curious, how can we take a
step towards curiosity abouteach other together?
And again, this is anothercategory that might span over
other categories how can I becurious about the argument that
we had this morning?
How can I be curious about yourperspective, which is a lot
about how to communicateeffectively, right?
Or how can I be curious aboutwhat's fun for you, or about why
(20:51):
you have that hobby thatdoesn't seem very interesting to
me, but can I be curious aboutthat, even if I end up not
really liking it, if it's not mything?
How can I show up with opennessto that experience, to share it
with you in a different waythan maybe if I just shut it
down?
You can be curious about whatdo you like in the bedroom, what
feels good, what doesn't feelgood, what turns you on.
Those are great, juicy,delicious conversations to have,
(21:11):
and, again, they can only behad when you're in a place of
safety, just like the idea ofstepping towards newness,
stepping towards curiosity, canapply to many categories, but
it's really worth thinking abouton its own and seeing where it
can apply.
So those are the steps that Iwill talk about today.
If you and your partner think ofsome other steps that really
feel good and positive and rightfor you, I totally encourage
you to share them with me.
(21:32):
I would love to hear about whatsteps you and your partner are
taking, and again, this can bemore challenging than it seems
because, realistically, we wantto work in connection, we want
to work in partnership, butbecause of our histories, our
childhood, where we come from,our family, the experiences
we've had already in ourpartnership, we might not feel
like working together is safe,and so this is not necessarily
(21:54):
something that will changeovernight, but it also doesn't
have to take a super long timeto change.
So this is again the experienceof tuning into yourself,
getting your nervous system to aplace that feels safe and your
partner doing the same and beingable to come together and
really attune to not just you oryour partner not just attuning
to them, but both of youattuning to and paying attention
(22:14):
to what the relationship needs.
And again, in this moment,right now, in this place, what
step feels like it makes sensefrom here, where we are today,
what step you might taketomorrow or next week or next
month might be very different,and that's okay and that's all a
part of this process.
This is how to take a steptowards working together in
partnership, because that'sreally the only way that you can
(22:35):
make a healthy, nourishing,satisfying relationship for both
of you.
So tune in next week and I'lltalk more about how to grow
through some of the challengesthat may come up as you work on
taking a step with your partner.
I look forward to connectingwith you next time.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
(22:58):
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
(23:19):
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
(23:42):
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
(24:06):
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
(24:26):
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.