June 25, 2025 • 32 mins
The path to a transformed relationship rarely follows a straight line. Most couples encounter significant challenges when trying to work together toward positive change, often finding themselves caught in familiar cycles of frustration despite their best intentions.
This episode explores two pivotal moments where partnership efforts commonly derail: at the very beginning when trying to establish teamwork, and when discovering you and your partner want different next steps. Both challenges reveal something profound about how our nervous systems interpret differences as threats, creating protective responses that block genuine connection.
Drawing from Polyvagal Theory and Imago Relationship Therapy, I share practical guidance for navigating these roadblocks. You'll discover why your nervous system state matters more than your words when approaching your partner, how to extend genuine invitations rather than demands, and ways to transform differences from threats into opportunities for deeper understanding.
We explore the common "disappointed-disappointment" dynamic that leaves one partner feeling chronically let down while the other feels perpetually inadequate despite their efforts. This pattern creates serious obstacles to partnership but also offers clues about what's needed for real change.
The journey isn't about perfection but practice. Each attempt to work together—even the messy ones—represents growth toward creating a relationship model you may never have witnessed before. This simultaneously exciting and frightening process requires compassion for both yourself and your partner as you learn to maintain regulated nervous systems and connect through differences rather than despite them.
Whether you're just beginning to shift toward partnership or already encountering obstacles along the way, this episode provides guidance for transforming struggle into opportunity. Subscribe and share with anyone who might benefit from understanding how to take steps together, even when depression is in your bed.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the One Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you ready to take stepswith your partner towards
improving your relationship, butyou realize you may encounter
some obstacles along the way.
Have you been trying to workwith your partner but you're
hitting some roadblocks to yourprogress?
If so, join me today as Iexplore some common challenges
you may experience as you beginto shift into working in a real
(00:24):
partnership towards creating abetter relationship, and, of
course, I'll share what you cando to help grow through the
challenges instead of beingstopped by them.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am so delighted that you
are here.
Let's get started.
The last several episodes I'vebeen talking about my take a
step approach, and I startedtalking about how individuals
(00:46):
can use the take a step approachto really attune to their
nervous system and their bodyand, from that attune place,
decide what steps they may needto take.
That helps allow them to movefrom where they might be stuck
and be able to take a steptowards somewhere that feels
better and is closer to wherethey want to be.
Then I moved into talking abouthow the take a step approach
could that feels better and iscloser to where they want to be.
Then I moved into talking abouthow the take a step approach
(01:06):
could be used in relationships,and that's what I've been
talking about the last couple ofepisodes, and today I will
continue talking about that froma specific perspective of when
you're trying to take steps withyour partner, what common
challenges could occur and whatto do about them.
Any relationship can have itsown unique challenges, of course
, as they begin to try to figureout what steps they wanna take
together, just as much as thesteps that they take will be
(01:29):
unique to their relationship.
However, in all the possiblechallenges that might occur, the
way I see it, there are twoplaces where challenges are
likely to come up.
One is in the very beginning.
If you are used to being in adynamic with your partner where
you don't feel like you'reworking together, or it feels
actually like you're workingagainst each other a lot of the
time, or you think you've triedexpressing to your partner many
(01:52):
times before that you want towork more together and you feel
like it hasn't been heard orreceived by your partner, then
just beginning this shifttowards how to work together,
how we take steps together, thatin and of itself can be a
really big challenge.
The second place where achallenge might creep up is once
you've decided with yourpartner hey, yes, let's try to
do this.
This is a good idea.
We really want to work together.
(02:13):
What step should we take?
And if you both want to takedifferent steps that potentially
could create a conflict, it isnot necessarily true that these
two places will be a conflictfor everyone who tries to take a
step approach.
It's just two places that Iexpect conflict to be possible.
So I want to talk about thosetwo areas today.
(02:33):
For the first potentialchallenge just getting started
together it's really importantto know that when you go to your
partner, the state of yournervous system means everything.
Now, the truth is, most of usare not used to thinking about
the state of our nervous system.
I know for me, I have spentmost of the last 21 years of my
relationship not thinking at allabout my nervous system or my
(02:56):
body experience, for that matter, when I was doing anything in
my life, let alone how I showedup in my relationship with my
husband.
But the last few years, nowthat I have been really diving
into polyvagal theory, which isall about how our nervous system
affects how we show up in ourlife, how we interpret our life,
how we experience our life.
I have really made this hugeshift and now I realize how
(03:18):
incredibly important it is to beaware of how we show up all of
our relationships with ourromantic partner, with our kids,
with our coworkers, witheverybody in our life, including
with ourself.
As a matter of fact, how weshow up for ourselves matters
quite a bit.
So I've talked about thisbefore and it's something I will
continue to talk about forprobably the entire duration of
the podcast as long as I makeepisodes.
(03:40):
I will talk about dysregulationand regulation in the nervous
system, and you can go and findother episodes in the past or
you can go out and look in otherplaces about how to regulate
your nervous system.
But just the little tiny thingthat I'll share today is just to
remember that you can onlyconnect when your nervous system
feels safe, and if you'refeeling like you have to protect
(04:01):
yourself, your nervous systemis in a fight or flight response
or a freeze response, thenyou're not really going to be
very effective at coming to yourpartner, and I will kind of
give a little warning here thata lot of the time for many of us
.
I am definitely one of thesepeople.
When my nervous system is inthe sympathetic, fight or flight
mode, which is that mobilizedresponse to threat Something is
(04:24):
happening and I have to dosomething about it.
My mobilized response doesn'talways quite look like the
traditional fighting, like I'mnot necessarily arguing with my
husband or name calling orinsulting or fighting, so to
speak.
However, I am very frequentlyin a fix it response and I'm
trying to help and I'm trying todo something and I'm trying to
(04:45):
say how things could be betterand I'm trying to say what we
can do that would help thesituation improve.
And this is so easy to say ohwhat, I'm just trying to help,
they're not letting me help themor they don't care, or whatever
stories we might make up.
And so to really understandthat if you're in that like I
have to help help place, I haveto tell my partner what to do.
I am responsible for makingthis relationship better.
(05:06):
You're actually probably in adysregulated state and it would
really benefit you to take sometime to figure out how to get
yourself back into a safe state.
And of course, I will talkabout those things, but I won't
go into them very deeply today.
But just to note, if that'swhere you're coming from, that's
a sign that you're dysregulated, in all likelihood, and it is a
very different experience to bein a safe place we call it
(05:28):
ventral and polyvagal theorywhen your nervous system feels
safe and grounded and you couldbe in that connected place.
That is different thansympathetic energy.
When you're in ventral andyou're in that safe, connected
place, you can come to yourpartner with curiosity and with
invitation and you can still sayhey, you know what.
I really want things to bebetter for us.
I think we deserve more thanthis.
(05:48):
I think we both are wonderfulpeople and I really love us and
the relationship.
I really love what we have andI think it's worth figuring out
how to do it differently and ina way that feels good for both
of us.
Are you willing to join me?
And that's a very differentenergy rather than this is what
we need to do and this is whatyou need to do.
And if you only said this or didthis or said it that way, or
(06:10):
whatever your approach is,please know that I am not
criticizing your sympathetichelpfulness at all.
The truth is is that I havespent so much of my life in that
state, that I am intimatelyfamiliar with it, and I go into
that state absolutely with myhusband.
I also go into that state withmy teenage son, and so I have a
lot of awareness and compassionfor why we go there right,
(06:32):
because we want our husband tobe happy, or our kid or
ourselves, and our happinessbeing threatened, or our
partner's happiness or our kid'shappiness that can land as a
real serious threat.
So it's no wonder that ournervous system goes into this
protective mode.
So just a little warning there,as you get started, that it's
so important for you to be in aventral, safe, grounded place.
(06:54):
So do whatever you need to dothat you know yoga, meditate, go
for a walk, have some fun withyour friends, do whatever it is
that makes you feel safe andgrounded before you go and begin
.
This invitation to your partnerand that is how I invite you to
begin with your partner is toinvite them into this journey
with you.
In the Imago relationshiptherapy work that I do, we use a
(07:16):
structure type of conversationcalled the Imago intentional
dialogue, and the first step ofthe intentional dialogue is to
ask for an appointment.
And it sounds weird because weusually don't make appointments
with our romantic partners totalk to them, but it is a mind
blowingly powerful skill becauseit takes into account that
maybe your partner is not in thebest place to have a
(07:36):
conversation, even if you are,and so beginning to invite them
into this process.
You can say hey, I heardsomething on this podcast that
was really interesting to meabout how we can work together
more in order to create arelationship that feels better.
Are you interested in hearingmore about it?
And you can say is now a goodtime to have a conversation
about that with me?
And if your partner says, sure,yeah, I'm willing to talk about
(07:57):
that with you, then great,you're off and running.
Right, the conversation is open, you have consent from both of
you.
And if your partner feels alittle bit like, uh, I don't
know what you're talking about.
This is like a weird beginningto a conversation, because
you've never talked to them likethat before and you've never
asked them for an appointmentbefore, their nervous system
might experience that as a cueof danger, to be quite honest,
and they might be like uh, whyare you being so weird, you know
(08:18):
?
And you could say I'm justtrying something new.
You're right, you know whatwe've been doing hasn't been
working so well, so I'm willingto try something new that I
heard about.
So that's why I'm asking inthis kind of weird way but are
you willing and they might thinkthey have to say yes, otherwise
they might disappoint you oryou might get frustrated or
annoyed, so you can also letthem know.
I'm genuinely asking, I reallywant to know if you are open to
(08:41):
having this conversation rightnow.
Is it a good time for you?
Did you eat?
Is there work that you need totake care of or whatever?
Is there something else thatfeels really important to you
right now?
Because I want you to be ableto have this conversation when
you're ready for it, and iflater is a better time, I
genuinely want to know that.
So the power of invitation isreally important, and the next
part of this invitation, ofbeginning this conversation, is
(09:01):
to let them know and be clearabout why you're inviting them
into this conversation, and thedetails will look different and
what you say will be unique toyou, of course, but the general
reason you're having thisconversation is because your
relationship with them mattersto you and you love them and you
want to work better togetherbecause you realize that you
(09:22):
haven't always been working likea team and you really would
like to change things in ameaningful and real way for both
of you and you're hoping to beable to figure that out together
so you don't have to feel likeyou're doing it alone and that
your partner doesn't have tofeel like they're figuring out
things alone either.
So that's a pretty good reason,I think, anyway, to want to do
something together and it's areally beautiful invitation.
(09:43):
It's not like I know what to doand you don't, which is a power
differential and can reallycreate a queue of danger in the
nervous system.
And as you go into thisexperience, that power dynamic
or that power struggle that wecall it in Imago, one of the
very common things is we oftenrefer to one partner as being
the disappointed and the otherpartner being the disappointment
(10:03):
, meaning that one partner isusually asking for something or
wanting something or desiringsomething and the other partner,
no matter how hard they seem totry or how hard they feel like
they're trying, they don't feellike they're measuring up,
they're not feeling good enough,they feel like they're always
letting their partner down andthis disappointed disappointment
dynamic occurs and it's so verycommon and it is very likely
(10:23):
going to be an obstacle forcouples that are caught in that
dynamic when they begin to startworking together.
Because the truth is that inrelationship, oftentimes both
partners are doing a lot of workfor the relationship, but
they're not doing the same workand they're not necessarily
doing what the other partnerneeds them to do, but they might
feel like they're doing a lot.
The partner who feels likethey're the disappointment is
(10:45):
likely to be weary and cautiousabout this idea of working
together, because theirnarrative might be something
like I've either tried so hardbefore and it's never worked, so
what's different now?
Or what do you mean?
Work together?
I've been trying to work withyou all this time, and they
might feel like you're insultingthem or criticizing their past
efforts.
This really beautifulinvitation might actually poke
(11:07):
on some tender places in yourpartner and, of course, for you,
as you're starting this process, some tender places might get
activated in you as well.
So just to really be aware ofthat and to know that you really
want to be able to validateyour partner's experience,
whatever they're saying, and soif they say, what do you mean?
Take steps together?
Isn't that what we always do orsomething like that you can say
, yeah, well, it makes sensethat you feel that way.
(11:28):
I do know that we try to worktogether and I also know that it
doesn't always feel like ourworking together always works,
and I really want to trysomething new so that we can
really move to a place thatfeels better, because that's
really what I want for us, andso you can validate whatever
your partner's stance is.
It might seem like, well, Iwant to work together.
Should my partner be excitedabout that?
Well, maybe, but it reallydepends on your history, and
(11:49):
it's also really important toknow that this is a vital time
to share your experience, so youmight share.
I feel alone or overwhelmed, orI'm aware that I get stuck
focusing on the negative in ourrelationship, or I find myself
thinking that there's only oneway to get out of a situation,
and if we don't do it that way,I get really frustrated.
Or maybe you can even identifylike to your partner hey, I
(12:11):
realize that I tend toover-focus on you and what you
need to do in this relationship,even though I'm also always
thinking about what I need to do, but what I communicate might
sound like I'm telling you whatyou need to do and that might
not be helpful, and so I'mtrying to figure out a new way
to do this that really helpsboth of us, and if you can
really own how you'vecontributed to the dynamic of
(12:31):
being stuck in a relationshipthat doesn't feel like you're
working in partnership, it'sreally a gift to your partner.
It's letting your partner knowhey, I'm not perfect either.
We're human.
I'm not expecting perfectionhere.
I'm just hoping that we canmove to a place of being curious
about how to do this together,about how to find a new way so
we can create a relationshipthat we really want and deserve.
My first podcast episode iscalled Struggle Is so Last Year,
(12:53):
because that's the place that Igot to in my personal life,
both as an individual andrelationally.
Like struggle is so last year.
I'm not doing this anymore and,as I talked about at length in
my first episode, I know thatsuffering is to be human and
that there's many, many, manyreal struggles that we just
can't eradicate.
And I'm not trying to beavoidant or ignore real
struggles.
I'm talking about getting to aplace where you say you know
(13:15):
what.
I'm committed to figuring thisout in a new way, because I want
to do everything I can to feelbetter and a lot of us, by the
way, I know this is true for mefelt like we were doing
everything we could true for mefelt like we were doing
everything we could and I wasdoing everything I could, but it
was everything that I hadawareness of that I could do.
And, for me, thinking about thenervous system, experience and
understanding how the nervoussystem was affecting everything
(13:35):
in my life gave me a muchgreater and wider view of what I
could do, what possibilitiesexisted, and for me, they've
been transformational, andthat's what I share through this
podcast is how I have improvedmy own relationship with myself
and certainly my relationshipwith my partner, my relationship
, my kids and all myrelationships, my whole life.
So I'm a big fan of nervoussystem work because I think it
(13:56):
increases the possibilities thatwe have and it offers clearer
paths again, at least for me,about what we need to do or what
we can do to have the life wereally want to have and the
relationships we really want tohave.
I would also say here, by theway, that you can offer for your
partner, if they're curious, tolisten to the podcast.
Again, this might be a littlebit tricky.
(14:17):
There are some relationshipswhere one partner does
frequently send social mediaclips and podcasts and articles
or whatever of like hey, readthis, read this.
And it kind of comes with themessage of like, I found out
what's wrong with you and thisis it, and I want you to listen
about it so you can understandwhat's wrong with you.
Like I understand what's wrongwith you.
They don't always land as hey,I found this interesting piece
(14:39):
of information that I reallyrelate to and I connect to, and
I learned a little bit moreabout our relationship and I'd
love to share it with you.
It doesn't always come that way, so use this with caution, but
you can share and say, hey, Iheard this podcast about taking
steps together and how importantit is to work in partnership
and how common it is to feellike people are either working
(14:59):
by themselves or feelingoverwhelmed or not knowing what
to do or how.
So often in relationships,people feel like they are doing
so much work, they're trying sohard, they're already doing
everything, and it feels likethey're just like in this
hamster wheel, spinning andspinning and spinning and not
getting anywhere, even thoughthey're putting in so much
effort.
And the host was talking aboutother ways to do things that
(15:20):
feel better, and I really wantus to feel better.
So if you're interested inlistening to the podcast, I'd be
happy to listen to it togetheror I can share them with you if
you want.
Again, very invitational, and Ireally mean invitational,
because if you got an invitationto a party, you're allowed to
say no, and so when you inviteyour partner into something,
they're also allowed to say no.
Now, again, this gets tricky.
(15:41):
And, going back to theappointment, I won't go into
much detail, but the idea withan appointment is if something's
important to one partner totalk about, they will eventually
get to talk about it.
It's just the other partner hasto be able to agree that it's a
good time for them, and so ifyour partner says it's not a
good time to talk, then youwould say to them something like
OK, this is a really importantthing for me.
I am really excited to talk toyou about it.
(16:02):
Please let me know when it's agood time for you, so that you
can kind of be on the same page,so you don't lose it, because I
know that a lot of people outthere again, I'm one of these
people.
When you want to have aconversation, your partner
doesn't want to have it, youhave some terror inside of you
that's the word I would use.
Maybe terror feels big for you,but you have some concern or,
like I said, for me, terror thatif you don't talk about it
(16:23):
right now, it'll never gettalked about.
That is, by the way,sympathetic, fight or flight
energy in there and, again,understandable why it's there,
but it's really not helpful tothe relationship and the
connecting process.
So this invitational approachtruly invitational is really key
because it'll help create aspace where your partner's
nervous system can feel saferand also then more available to
(16:45):
connect with you.
So really it's a win-win.
It does take some practice.
I might make this sound easieror more simple than sometimes it
looks like in real life,although with repeated practice
just like with yoga ormeditation or anything that's a
practice.
The more you do it, the moreyou do, in fact, grow and your
ability to do it well increases.
And nobody ever does itperfectly.
That's not what a practice isabout.
(17:06):
So I share this with you and Ireally also invite you to see
what makes sense for you, whatfeels like a fit.
I try to give concrete steps onhow to do things, because I
like concrete steps, but I alsoknow that step one, step two,
step three, step four might bedifferent for people.
So please know that that Idon't necessarily always mean
that everything has to be doneexactly as the protocol lays out
(17:27):
.
This is more ideas for you tobe able to see what you connect
with and what makes sense foryou.
So hopefully you'll be able toconnect with your partner and
talk with them about this ideaand invite them into connecting
with you in this new way andfigure out some steps that you
want to take together.
And if you do that, or ifyou've already done that,
awesome Congratulations.
That's awesome work.
(17:51):
I'm so happy for you and yourpartner and I'm excited to see
where the two of you go, and Isend you and your partner lots
of ventral energy and love to beable to move forward together
on this journey.
So now, as you're talking about,what steps should we take?
This is the second place wherethere's likely at some point to
be some sort of conflict, andthat's because you and your
partner may very well want twodifferent things and some of you
(18:11):
might say, oh yeah, we want twodifferent things.
We can figure this out, and ifthat's you, then that's cool and
you and your partner can dowhatever you and your partner
are doing to figure that out.
But if that's not yourexperience and if your partner
wants a different step than youwant and that feels threatening
to you, or vice versa, you wanta different step in your partner
and that feels threatening toyour partner then this is what
(18:32):
I'm talking about and how tohelp that process a little bit.
You may not identify with theword threaten, like oh, I don't
feel threatened when my partnerdoesn't want what I want or when
my partner wants to take adifferent step than I do.
But I will say that if you'reannoyed or frustrated or angry
or you feel hopeless or you wantto give up or you feel
exasperated, those are goodindicators that your nervous
(18:53):
system probably has moved into aprotective state and you
probably are in a survival place.
And that's what dysregulationis.
There's nothing bad or negativeabout dysregulation.
It just means you've identifieda cue of danger, either in
yourself or in your environmentor in relationship with someone
else, and you're going intoprotection.
And so it's very, very, verycommon when somebody is
(19:14):
different than us and we seethis all over the world.
I won't even begin to go intothat conversation more deeply,
although it's a worthyconversation to have and I'm
sure we'll talk about it anothertime but it's very common for
our nervous system to experiencethe other as a threat.
So when our partner disagreeswith us or wants something
different than us, it's reallyunderstandable how we might feel
threatened by that.
So please know that.
(19:35):
So, for example, if your partnersays, hey, sure, taking a step
towards physical intimacy soundsgreat, I would love to do that,
and you're like what?
That's where you're starting.
You're talking about sex.
We obviously need to take stepstowards communication first, of
course you would want that andyou're like what?
That's where you're starting.
You're talking about sex.
We obviously need to take stepstowards communication first.
Of course you would want totake a step towards sex.
You never really want to do thehard work, that kind of thing.
That's the situation where yournervous system probably feels
(19:56):
really threatened and you'reprobably making up a lot of
stories like my partner doesn'treally care about me, all they
care about is sex.
They never want to do the hardwork, they never want to
actually communicate, andthere's a whole bunch of stuff
that can happen when you go intothat dysregulated place.
So I get it, I've been thereand my heart is with you.
It doesn't mean that all hope islost.
It actually means, believe itor not, that you have stumbled
(20:20):
upon what is probably a reallyawesome clue about one of the
helpful steps that you and yourpartner can take together.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat it's the first step you
have to take in that moment, butit could be something to
consider, because if youexperience your partners being
different as being threateningto you or, like I said, the
reverse is true they experienceyour difference as being a
threat to them.
(20:41):
Taking a step towards curiosityis probably really important
and how to be curious aboutdifference, how to feel safe
when your partner feelsdifferently about something than
you do.
Do you feel unheard or unseenor unimportant?
Or do you feel that you've beendevalued in some way, that your
perspective doesn't matter asmuch as your partner's
(21:01):
perspective if they believesomething different than you
believe?
These can get into some deepneeds, unmet needs from
childhood, pretty quickly here,through the perspectives that I
look at the human experience,like what it means to be human.
I do strongly believe that ourearly experiences with our early
caregivers impact how we showup in our lives as adults, and
this can go back to a lot ofthat stuff and how difference
(21:24):
was tolerated in your house whenyou were a kid.
Were you allowed to have adifferent opinion?
Were you supported if youwanted something that was
different than your family?
So these are good things tothink about, but you can get
pretty deep pretty quickly.
So, admittedly, you might needsome support here.
This is a great place for somesupport with a relationship
therapist or a relationshipcoach.
(21:44):
So if you notice that this ishappening, then you really want
to try to regulate and thatmeans moving your nervous system
back into safety.
So it might mean taking a break, it might mean sighing and
taking a breath there's a lot ofdifferent things that you can
do and to really start to beable to move your system back to
safety, so that you can startto be in a curious place and
(22:04):
start to wonder about what'simportant to your partner,
instead of thinking that youknow why your partner wants that
step.
Actually being curious aboutwhy they desire what they desire
, why they want what they want,what's important about it,
what's meaningful, what'svaluable, and you might find out
something really interesting.
And again, you might reallyneed some support to go through
this process, and this can be asticky process.
(22:26):
I can't cover it quickly in thepodcast, but just some pointers
about noticing if it'shappening and being able to
again take a break or take abreath and try to move into that
curious place with your partneragain as we move towards the
end.
I will also share just a fewlittle things to remember.
Number one expect challengeshere.
(22:46):
Okay, they are opportunities tobe curious.
If you and your partner havestruggled in the past when it
comes to working as a team andfeeling like you're in
partnership together, then thisis going to be hard.
If it was easy, you'd be doingit already, and there's nothing
wrong with you per se becauseit's been hard in the past.
This is something new.
The fact that you desireworking together is fantastic.
So this is something new andthere's a lot of growth
(23:07):
potential here and that's reallyexciting.
But it doesn't mean that it'llbe easy every step of the way.
It also doesn't mean that it'llbe easy every step of the way.
It also doesn't mean that ithas to be hard every step of the
way.
So there's a lot ofopportunities to be curious.
But know that this is somethingnew and there's going to be
bumps along the road, but thatdoesn't have to stop you or end
the whole process.
You might just have to take abreak and come back.
It might not just be oneconversation.
(23:28):
As a matter of fact, it'slikely that it won't be one
conversation.
It'll be ongoing conversationsthat you'll learn from and
through as you go along.
I will also tell you to rememberthat you and your partner may
not be in the same place, andthat might mean that your
nervous systems are not in thesame place.
Like, maybe you have gotten toa really safe place, but again
you might come to your partnerand this new way you're
approaching your partner mightland as a threat for them and so
(23:50):
their nervous system might gointo a survival place.
But also you might not have thesame goals.
Again you might not agree onwhat step you need to take, or
your partner may be in a place,like I mentioned earlier, that
they really feel like they aredoing work and it feels like an
insult this idea of taking astep together and you might have
to work through that, and sojust know that you might come
very excited with a lot of goodintentions and love, and that is
(24:12):
wonderful and that's that's agreat place to come from.
Your partner might be in adifferent place, especially if
there's been a long history ofdisconnection.
This new shift towards comingcloser and working together
might be like whoa, whoa, whatis this?
So, again, there'sopportunities for curiosity and
growth and perhaps some supportcould be useful as you move
through the process.
Also, please remember this isnot a linear process.
(24:34):
Again, as I kind of said beforeabout my protocol, so to speak,
I try to give concrete examplesabout what people can do,
because I find that helpful, butit's just a guide.
As you're exploring thesethings and working on things,
you're going to be learning andgrowing, but the process can be
very windy.
I often refer to myself in mylife as taking the scenic route,
and sometimes it's a reallybeautiful detour, and other
(24:55):
times I really wish that I hadavoided that particular leg of
my trip, but it was the path Itook and I saw a lot.
Maybe I didn't really feel likeI wanted to see all of the
things that I saw on thatparticular detour, but I have
really come to learn andappreciate whatever comes up and
whatever my view is, as I'mtraveling through this life
(25:16):
again as an individual or inpartnership with my husband Both
ways.
The journey is not alwaysstraight.
Sometimes it's a very windyroad, and sometimes it feels
like you go back on yourself oryou're going around and around
and around the same block overand over again.
Take a break, get regulated,feel safe, see how to reconnect.
You might consider taking a steptowards fun, by the way, or
(25:38):
something like that.
Playfulness, something a littlebit lighter, that might help
you reconnect, and then you maybe able to find a path or a road
that you didn't know existedbefore.
That's certainly been myexperience, and I hope that's
true for you as well.
I also really want to encourageyou to support all the steps
you and your partner taketowards perhaps taking the big
(25:59):
step or the step that you'reworking on, the step that you
have identified you want to taketogether, because sometimes
things don't go as smoothly oras well, or you think one thing
is one step and it might be 10steps to actually get, to be
able to take the step you'retrying to take, and so every
single little bit, even themistakes, are really worth
celebrating, and every smallaccomplishment really is a big
(26:21):
accomplishment, because everyeffort that you take together or
you attempt to take together isa step towards being able to
figure out a new way of being inthe relationship, which is
really really special, andthat's truly what we're trying
to do.
Oftentimes we don't have modelsfor wonderful relationship, and
that's not to insult or bash anyparents or grandparents.
(26:42):
The truth is is that mentalhealth and relationship wellness
, certainly nervous systemwellness those are not concepts
that were available to ourparents and our grandparents and
our great grandparents.
So I truly come from a placethat I believe that everybody is
always doing the best that theycan.
People may very well disagreewith me about that, that's okay.
So I really truly believe thatmy parents, my grandparents, my
(27:03):
great-grandparents, my husband'sparents, his grandparents, all
of our ancestors, all the peoplein our lives, were always doing
their best, but sometimes ISomeone's best just wasn't what
we needed, it wasn't good enoughfor us, or their best still
ended up being a hurt to us.
And that's the process.
That's part of being human, andwhat we do with it now is
really the important part whenyou're in your present day,
(27:23):
current intimate partnership,figuring out how to have the
relationship you really wannahave might be really new.
It might be something youactually haven't had before or
you haven't witnessed before, orspecific parts of it might be
things you haven't had orhaven't seen before.
So you're creating somethingnew which is actually really
exciting.
But also talking about ournervous system.
New things can be really scary,and so sometimes we avoid the
(27:45):
new things, even if in our head,it's what we really want.
If you really can understandthat this is a process and that
change is absolutely possibleand you can have some compassion
for yourself and your partneralong the way, you really can
make truly beautiful thingshappen.
That has absolutely been myexperience with my husband.
I continue to be in awe of whatis possible when I'm regulated,
(28:07):
when I'm working in partnership, as I continue to expand my
awareness and know myself morein my nervous system, and so,
again, I hope that this is alsotrue for you and anybody who's
on a path of healing and growingand trying something new and
trying to heal and have a lifethat is different and hopefully
even better than the one we have, even if your life is pretty
(28:29):
good I have a lot of reallybeautiful parts of my life and
yet there's still a lot of roomfor growth in many ways as well.
So it's not an either or kindof thing.
And my last little reminder isfor you to notice if you or your
partner is doing something thatindicate a survival response
and a protective response.
So if you're trying to takesteps for your partner again
that fight response that Imentioned earlier, that
(28:50):
mobilized response to threat mypartner is not taking their
steps I have to take them forthem or my partner is not doing
what I think they should do, soI think they should do this.
Those are really mobilizedresponses to threat.
So notice if that's coming upand take a breath and try to
take a step back.
I'm making that sound reallyeasy.
I know that it may not be, butit's worth paying attention to.
Also, if you have the feeling oryou notice your partner wanting
(29:12):
to give up, or if you're havinga hard time finding time to
talk about this with yourpartner, or you've talked about
it once and then you somehowmagically never got to talk
about it again, those are allindicators, and there's so many
more that this feels scary insome way.
But there's a lot of stuff atplay and I just encourage you to
notice those things andidentify them, and then you can
(29:35):
start to do something with themand you can say, hey, I'm
feeling scared, or, oh, mypartner's feeling scared, or
this is new and this is unknown,and so it feels a little bit
like we should be cautious hereand again.
Every time that you can reachfor some more compassion for
yourself and for your partner,it's really an opportunity to
allow your nervous system to bemore in that grounded, safe
(29:55):
place, and then there is so muchmore possibility available to
you because we are so limitedwhen we're in survival.
And that is truly what I havelearned and I will continue to
talk about with you, and I hopethat, as you're on this journey,
your nervous system continuesto be able to find more and more
ways to move and stay inventral as often as you can.
(30:17):
As you're on this journey, Ihope that you and your partner
find lots of opportunities tomove your own nervous systems
into that ventral, safe,connected space, which doesn't
necessarily mean happy and zenand beautiful, it's just being
able to connect.
So it's like, okay, we have adifference of opinion and we can
figure that out.
It's not, we have a differenceof opinion, and now you're a
threat to me, right?
So, again, there's so much totalk about here, but to know
(30:40):
that you can connect throughyour differences and you can
grow through your differencesit's at the core of the work I
do in Imago Relationship Therapyand it's just in line with my
beliefs and my experiences.
And so good luck to you and Ilook forward to talking with you
more about all of these things,and I hope you join me next
week.
(31:16):
Stop and move back out into theworld on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(31:40):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(32:03):
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today ispossible for everyone, including
you.
Today is possible for everyone,including you, and even when
depression is in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
(32:25):
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
(32:46):
a step.
Hello and welcome to the One Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you ready to take stepswith your partner towards
improving your relationship, butyou realize you may encounter
some obstacles along the way.
Have you been trying to workwith your partner but you're
hitting some roadblocks to yourprogress?
If so, join me today as Iexplore some common challenges
you may experience as you beginto shift into working in a real
(00:24):
partnership towards creating abetter relationship, and, of
course, I'll share what you cando to help grow through the
challenges instead of beingstopped by them.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am so delighted that you
are here.
Let's get started.
The last several episodes I'vebeen talking about my take a
step approach, and I startedtalking about how individuals
(00:46):
can use the take a step approachto really attune to their
nervous system and their bodyand, from that attune place,
decide what steps they may needto take.
That helps allow them to movefrom where they might be stuck
and be able to take a steptowards somewhere that feels
better and is closer to wherethey want to be.
Then I moved into talking abouthow the take a step approach
could that feels better and iscloser to where they want to be.
Then I moved into talking abouthow the take a step approach
(01:06):
could be used in relationships,and that's what I've been
talking about the last couple ofepisodes, and today I will
continue talking about that froma specific perspective of when
you're trying to take steps withyour partner, what common
challenges could occur and whatto do about them.
Any relationship can have itsown unique challenges, of course
, as they begin to try to figureout what steps they wanna take
together, just as much as thesteps that they take will be
(01:29):
unique to their relationship.
However, in all the possiblechallenges that might occur, the
way I see it, there are twoplaces where challenges are
likely to come up.
One is in the very beginning.
If you are used to being in adynamic with your partner where
you don't feel like you'reworking together, or it feels
actually like you're workingagainst each other a lot of the
time, or you think you've triedexpressing to your partner many
(01:52):
times before that you want towork more together and you feel
like it hasn't been heard orreceived by your partner, then
just beginning this shifttowards how to work together,
how we take steps together, thatin and of itself can be a
really big challenge.
The second place where achallenge might creep up is once
you've decided with yourpartner hey, yes, let's try to
do this.
This is a good idea.
We really want to work together.
(02:13):
What step should we take?
And if you both want to takedifferent steps that potentially
could create a conflict, it isnot necessarily true that these
two places will be a conflictfor everyone who tries to take a
step approach.
It's just two places that Iexpect conflict to be possible.
So I want to talk about thosetwo areas today.
(02:33):
For the first potentialchallenge just getting started
together it's really importantto know that when you go to your
partner, the state of yournervous system means everything.
Now, the truth is, most of usare not used to thinking about
the state of our nervous system.
I know for me, I have spentmost of the last 21 years of my
relationship not thinking at allabout my nervous system or my
(02:56):
body experience, for that matter, when I was doing anything in
my life, let alone how I showedup in my relationship with my
husband.
But the last few years, nowthat I have been really diving
into polyvagal theory, which isall about how our nervous system
affects how we show up in ourlife, how we interpret our life,
how we experience our life.
I have really made this hugeshift and now I realize how
(03:18):
incredibly important it is to beaware of how we show up all of
our relationships with ourromantic partner, with our kids,
with our coworkers, witheverybody in our life, including
with ourself.
As a matter of fact, how weshow up for ourselves matters
quite a bit.
So I've talked about thisbefore and it's something I will
continue to talk about forprobably the entire duration of
the podcast as long as I makeepisodes.
(03:40):
I will talk about dysregulationand regulation in the nervous
system, and you can go and findother episodes in the past or
you can go out and look in otherplaces about how to regulate
your nervous system.
But just the little tiny thingthat I'll share today is just to
remember that you can onlyconnect when your nervous system
feels safe, and if you'refeeling like you have to protect
(04:01):
yourself, your nervous systemis in a fight or flight response
or a freeze response, thenyou're not really going to be
very effective at coming to yourpartner, and I will kind of
give a little warning here thata lot of the time for many of us
.
I am definitely one of thesepeople.
When my nervous system is inthe sympathetic, fight or flight
mode, which is that mobilizedresponse to threat Something is
(04:24):
happening and I have to dosomething about it.
My mobilized response doesn'talways quite look like the
traditional fighting, like I'mnot necessarily arguing with my
husband or name calling orinsulting or fighting, so to
speak.
However, I am very frequentlyin a fix it response and I'm
trying to help and I'm trying todo something and I'm trying to
(04:45):
say how things could be betterand I'm trying to say what we
can do that would help thesituation improve.
And this is so easy to say ohwhat, I'm just trying to help,
they're not letting me help themor they don't care, or whatever
stories we might make up.
And so to really understandthat if you're in that like I
have to help help place, I haveto tell my partner what to do.
I am responsible for makingthis relationship better.
(05:06):
You're actually probably in adysregulated state and it would
really benefit you to take sometime to figure out how to get
yourself back into a safe state.
And of course, I will talkabout those things, but I won't
go into them very deeply today.
But just to note, if that'swhere you're coming from, that's
a sign that you're dysregulated, in all likelihood, and it is a
very different experience to bein a safe place we call it
(05:28):
ventral and polyvagal theorywhen your nervous system feels
safe and grounded and you couldbe in that connected place.
That is different thansympathetic energy.
When you're in ventral andyou're in that safe, connected
place, you can come to yourpartner with curiosity and with
invitation and you can still sayhey, you know what.
I really want things to bebetter for us.
I think we deserve more thanthis.
(05:48):
I think we both are wonderfulpeople and I really love us and
the relationship.
I really love what we have andI think it's worth figuring out
how to do it differently and ina way that feels good for both
of us.
Are you willing to join me?
And that's a very differentenergy rather than this is what
we need to do and this is whatyou need to do.
And if you only said this or didthis or said it that way, or
(06:10):
whatever your approach is,please know that I am not
criticizing your sympathetichelpfulness at all.
The truth is is that I havespent so much of my life in that
state, that I am intimatelyfamiliar with it, and I go into
that state absolutely with myhusband.
I also go into that state withmy teenage son, and so I have a
lot of awareness and compassionfor why we go there right,
(06:32):
because we want our husband tobe happy, or our kid or
ourselves, and our happinessbeing threatened, or our
partner's happiness or our kid'shappiness that can land as a
real serious threat.
So it's no wonder that ournervous system goes into this
protective mode.
So just a little warning there,as you get started, that it's
so important for you to be in aventral, safe, grounded place.
(06:54):
So do whatever you need to dothat you know yoga, meditate, go
for a walk, have some fun withyour friends, do whatever it is
that makes you feel safe andgrounded before you go and begin
.
This invitation to your partnerand that is how I invite you to
begin with your partner is toinvite them into this journey
with you.
In the Imago relationshiptherapy work that I do, we use a
(07:16):
structure type of conversationcalled the Imago intentional
dialogue, and the first step ofthe intentional dialogue is to
ask for an appointment.
And it sounds weird because weusually don't make appointments
with our romantic partners totalk to them, but it is a mind
blowingly powerful skill becauseit takes into account that
maybe your partner is not in thebest place to have a
(07:36):
conversation, even if you are,and so beginning to invite them
into this process.
You can say hey, I heardsomething on this podcast that
was really interesting to meabout how we can work together
more in order to create arelationship that feels better.
Are you interested in hearingmore about it?
And you can say is now a goodtime to have a conversation
about that with me?
And if your partner says, sure,yeah, I'm willing to talk about
(07:57):
that with you, then great,you're off and running.
Right, the conversation is open, you have consent from both of
you.
And if your partner feels alittle bit like, uh, I don't
know what you're talking about.
This is like a weird beginningto a conversation, because
you've never talked to them likethat before and you've never
asked them for an appointmentbefore, their nervous system
might experience that as a cueof danger, to be quite honest,
and they might be like uh, whyare you being so weird, you know
(08:18):
?
And you could say I'm justtrying something new.
You're right, you know whatwe've been doing hasn't been
working so well, so I'm willingto try something new that I
heard about.
So that's why I'm asking inthis kind of weird way but are
you willing and they might thinkthey have to say yes, otherwise
they might disappoint you oryou might get frustrated or
annoyed, so you can also letthem know.
I'm genuinely asking, I reallywant to know if you are open to
(08:41):
having this conversation rightnow.
Is it a good time for you?
Did you eat?
Is there work that you need totake care of or whatever?
Is there something else thatfeels really important to you
right now?
Because I want you to be ableto have this conversation when
you're ready for it, and iflater is a better time, I
genuinely want to know that.
So the power of invitation isreally important, and the next
part of this invitation, ofbeginning this conversation, is
(09:01):
to let them know and be clearabout why you're inviting them
into this conversation, and thedetails will look different and
what you say will be unique toyou, of course, but the general
reason you're having thisconversation is because your
relationship with them mattersto you and you love them and you
want to work better togetherbecause you realize that you
(09:22):
haven't always been working likea team and you really would
like to change things in ameaningful and real way for both
of you and you're hoping to beable to figure that out together
so you don't have to feel likeyou're doing it alone and that
your partner doesn't have tofeel like they're figuring out
things alone either.
So that's a pretty good reason,I think, anyway, to want to do
something together and it's areally beautiful invitation.
(09:43):
It's not like I know what to doand you don't, which is a power
differential and can reallycreate a queue of danger in the
nervous system.
And as you go into thisexperience, that power dynamic
or that power struggle that wecall it in Imago, one of the
very common things is we oftenrefer to one partner as being
the disappointed and the otherpartner being the disappointment
(10:03):
, meaning that one partner isusually asking for something or
wanting something or desiringsomething and the other partner,
no matter how hard they seem totry or how hard they feel like
they're trying, they don't feellike they're measuring up,
they're not feeling good enough,they feel like they're always
letting their partner down andthis disappointed disappointment
dynamic occurs and it's so verycommon and it is very likely
(10:23):
going to be an obstacle forcouples that are caught in that
dynamic when they begin to startworking together.
Because the truth is that inrelationship, oftentimes both
partners are doing a lot of workfor the relationship, but
they're not doing the same workand they're not necessarily
doing what the other partnerneeds them to do, but they might
feel like they're doing a lot.
The partner who feels likethey're the disappointment is
(10:45):
likely to be weary and cautiousabout this idea of working
together, because theirnarrative might be something
like I've either tried so hardbefore and it's never worked, so
what's different now?
Or what do you mean?
Work together?
I've been trying to work withyou all this time, and they
might feel like you're insultingthem or criticizing their past
efforts.
This really beautifulinvitation might actually poke
(11:07):
on some tender places in yourpartner and, of course, for you,
as you're starting this process, some tender places might get
activated in you as well.
So just to really be aware ofthat and to know that you really
want to be able to validateyour partner's experience,
whatever they're saying, and soif they say, what do you mean?
Take steps together?
Isn't that what we always do orsomething like that you can say
, yeah, well, it makes sensethat you feel that way.
(11:28):
I do know that we try to worktogether and I also know that it
doesn't always feel like ourworking together always works,
and I really want to trysomething new so that we can
really move to a place thatfeels better, because that's
really what I want for us, andso you can validate whatever
your partner's stance is.
It might seem like, well, Iwant to work together.
Should my partner be excitedabout that?
Well, maybe, but it reallydepends on your history, and
(11:49):
it's also really important toknow that this is a vital time
to share your experience, so youmight share.
I feel alone or overwhelmed, orI'm aware that I get stuck
focusing on the negative in ourrelationship, or I find myself
thinking that there's only oneway to get out of a situation,
and if we don't do it that way,I get really frustrated.
Or maybe you can even identifylike to your partner hey, I
(12:11):
realize that I tend toover-focus on you and what you
need to do in this relationship,even though I'm also always
thinking about what I need to do, but what I communicate might
sound like I'm telling you whatyou need to do and that might
not be helpful, and so I'mtrying to figure out a new way
to do this that really helpsboth of us, and if you can
really own how you'vecontributed to the dynamic of
(12:31):
being stuck in a relationshipthat doesn't feel like you're
working in partnership, it'sreally a gift to your partner.
It's letting your partner knowhey, I'm not perfect either.
We're human.
I'm not expecting perfectionhere.
I'm just hoping that we canmove to a place of being curious
about how to do this together,about how to find a new way so
we can create a relationshipthat we really want and deserve.
My first podcast episode iscalled Struggle Is so Last Year,
(12:53):
because that's the place that Igot to in my personal life,
both as an individual andrelationally.
Like struggle is so last year.
I'm not doing this anymore and,as I talked about at length in
my first episode, I know thatsuffering is to be human and
that there's many, many, manyreal struggles that we just
can't eradicate.
And I'm not trying to beavoidant or ignore real
struggles.
I'm talking about getting to aplace where you say you know
(13:15):
what.
I'm committed to figuring thisout in a new way, because I want
to do everything I can to feelbetter and a lot of us, by the
way, I know this is true for mefelt like we were doing
everything we could true for mefelt like we were doing
everything we could and I wasdoing everything I could, but it
was everything that I hadawareness of that I could do.
And, for me, thinking about thenervous system, experience and
understanding how the nervoussystem was affecting everything
(13:35):
in my life gave me a muchgreater and wider view of what I
could do, what possibilitiesexisted, and for me, they've
been transformational, andthat's what I share through this
podcast is how I have improvedmy own relationship with myself
and certainly my relationshipwith my partner, my relationship
, my kids and all myrelationships, my whole life.
So I'm a big fan of nervoussystem work because I think it
(13:56):
increases the possibilities thatwe have and it offers clearer
paths again, at least for me,about what we need to do or what
we can do to have the life wereally want to have and the
relationships we really want tohave.
I would also say here, by theway, that you can offer for your
partner, if they're curious, tolisten to the podcast.
Again, this might be a littlebit tricky.
(14:17):
There are some relationshipswhere one partner does
frequently send social mediaclips and podcasts and articles
or whatever of like hey, readthis, read this.
And it kind of comes with themessage of like, I found out
what's wrong with you and thisis it, and I want you to listen
about it so you can understandwhat's wrong with you.
Like I understand what's wrongwith you.
They don't always land as hey,I found this interesting piece
(14:39):
of information that I reallyrelate to and I connect to, and
I learned a little bit moreabout our relationship and I'd
love to share it with you.
It doesn't always come that way, so use this with caution, but
you can share and say, hey, Iheard this podcast about taking
steps together and how importantit is to work in partnership
and how common it is to feellike people are either working
(14:59):
by themselves or feelingoverwhelmed or not knowing what
to do or how.
So often in relationships,people feel like they are doing
so much work, they're trying sohard, they're already doing
everything, and it feels likethey're just like in this
hamster wheel, spinning andspinning and spinning and not
getting anywhere, even thoughthey're putting in so much
effort.
And the host was talking aboutother ways to do things that
(15:20):
feel better, and I really wantus to feel better.
So if you're interested inlistening to the podcast, I'd be
happy to listen to it togetheror I can share them with you if
you want.
Again, very invitational, and Ireally mean invitational,
because if you got an invitationto a party, you're allowed to
say no, and so when you inviteyour partner into something,
they're also allowed to say no.
Now, again, this gets tricky.
(15:41):
And, going back to theappointment, I won't go into
much detail, but the idea withan appointment is if something's
important to one partner totalk about, they will eventually
get to talk about it.
It's just the other partner hasto be able to agree that it's a
good time for them, and so ifyour partner says it's not a
good time to talk, then youwould say to them something like
OK, this is a really importantthing for me.
I am really excited to talk toyou about it.
(16:02):
Please let me know when it's agood time for you, so that you
can kind of be on the same page,so you don't lose it, because I
know that a lot of people outthere again, I'm one of these
people.
When you want to have aconversation, your partner
doesn't want to have it, youhave some terror inside of you
that's the word I would use.
Maybe terror feels big for you,but you have some concern or,
like I said, for me, terror thatif you don't talk about it
(16:23):
right now, it'll never gettalked about.
That is, by the way,sympathetic, fight or flight
energy in there and, again,understandable why it's there,
but it's really not helpful tothe relationship and the
connecting process.
So this invitational approachtruly invitational is really key
because it'll help create aspace where your partner's
nervous system can feel saferand also then more available to
(16:45):
connect with you.
So really it's a win-win.
It does take some practice.
I might make this sound easieror more simple than sometimes it
looks like in real life,although with repeated practice
just like with yoga ormeditation or anything that's a
practice.
The more you do it, the moreyou do, in fact, grow and your
ability to do it well increases.
And nobody ever does itperfectly.
That's not what a practice isabout.
(17:06):
So I share this with you and Ireally also invite you to see
what makes sense for you, whatfeels like a fit.
I try to give concrete steps onhow to do things, because I
like concrete steps, but I alsoknow that step one, step two,
step three, step four might bedifferent for people.
So please know that that Idon't necessarily always mean
that everything has to be doneexactly as the protocol lays out
(17:27):
.
This is more ideas for you tobe able to see what you connect
with and what makes sense foryou.
So hopefully you'll be able toconnect with your partner and
talk with them about this ideaand invite them into connecting
with you in this new way andfigure out some steps that you
want to take together.
And if you do that, or ifyou've already done that,
awesome Congratulations.
That's awesome work.
(17:51):
I'm so happy for you and yourpartner and I'm excited to see
where the two of you go, and Isend you and your partner lots
of ventral energy and love to beable to move forward together
on this journey.
So now, as you're talking about,what steps should we take?
This is the second place wherethere's likely at some point to
be some sort of conflict, andthat's because you and your
partner may very well want twodifferent things and some of you
(18:11):
might say, oh yeah, we want twodifferent things.
We can figure this out, and ifthat's you, then that's cool and
you and your partner can dowhatever you and your partner
are doing to figure that out.
But if that's not yourexperience and if your partner
wants a different step than youwant and that feels threatening
to you, or vice versa, you wanta different step in your partner
and that feels threatening toyour partner then this is what
(18:32):
I'm talking about and how tohelp that process a little bit.
You may not identify with theword threaten, like oh, I don't
feel threatened when my partnerdoesn't want what I want or when
my partner wants to take adifferent step than I do.
But I will say that if you'reannoyed or frustrated or angry
or you feel hopeless or you wantto give up or you feel
exasperated, those are goodindicators that your nervous
(18:53):
system probably has moved into aprotective state and you
probably are in a survival place.
And that's what dysregulationis.
There's nothing bad or negativeabout dysregulation.
It just means you've identifieda cue of danger, either in
yourself or in your environmentor in relationship with someone
else, and you're going intoprotection.
And so it's very, very, verycommon when somebody is
(19:14):
different than us and we seethis all over the world.
I won't even begin to go intothat conversation more deeply,
although it's a worthyconversation to have and I'm
sure we'll talk about it anothertime but it's very common for
our nervous system to experiencethe other as a threat.
So when our partner disagreeswith us or wants something
different than us, it's reallyunderstandable how we might feel
threatened by that.
So please know that.
(19:35):
So, for example, if your partnersays, hey, sure, taking a step
towards physical intimacy soundsgreat, I would love to do that,
and you're like what?
That's where you're starting.
You're talking about sex.
We obviously need to take stepstowards communication first, of
course you would want that andyou're like what?
That's where you're starting.
You're talking about sex.
We obviously need to take stepstowards communication first.
Of course you would want totake a step towards sex.
You never really want to do thehard work, that kind of thing.
That's the situation where yournervous system probably feels
(19:56):
really threatened and you'reprobably making up a lot of
stories like my partner doesn'treally care about me, all they
care about is sex.
They never want to do the hardwork, they never want to
actually communicate, andthere's a whole bunch of stuff
that can happen when you go intothat dysregulated place.
So I get it, I've been thereand my heart is with you.
It doesn't mean that all hope islost.
It actually means, believe itor not, that you have stumbled
(20:20):
upon what is probably a reallyawesome clue about one of the
helpful steps that you and yourpartner can take together.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat it's the first step you
have to take in that moment, butit could be something to
consider, because if youexperience your partners being
different as being threateningto you or, like I said, the
reverse is true they experienceyour difference as being a
threat to them.
(20:41):
Taking a step towards curiosityis probably really important
and how to be curious aboutdifference, how to feel safe
when your partner feelsdifferently about something than
you do.
Do you feel unheard or unseenor unimportant?
Or do you feel that you've beendevalued in some way, that your
perspective doesn't matter asmuch as your partner's
(21:01):
perspective if they believesomething different than you
believe?
These can get into some deepneeds, unmet needs from
childhood, pretty quickly here,through the perspectives that I
look at the human experience,like what it means to be human.
I do strongly believe that ourearly experiences with our early
caregivers impact how we showup in our lives as adults, and
this can go back to a lot ofthat stuff and how difference
(21:24):
was tolerated in your house whenyou were a kid.
Were you allowed to have adifferent opinion?
Were you supported if youwanted something that was
different than your family?
So these are good things tothink about, but you can get
pretty deep pretty quickly.
So, admittedly, you might needsome support here.
This is a great place for somesupport with a relationship
therapist or a relationshipcoach.
(21:44):
So if you notice that this ishappening, then you really want
to try to regulate and thatmeans moving your nervous system
back into safety.
So it might mean taking a break, it might mean sighing and
taking a breath there's a lot ofdifferent things that you can
do and to really start to beable to move your system back to
safety, so that you can startto be in a curious place and
(22:04):
start to wonder about what'simportant to your partner,
instead of thinking that youknow why your partner wants that
step.
Actually being curious aboutwhy they desire what they desire
, why they want what they want,what's important about it,
what's meaningful, what'svaluable, and you might find out
something really interesting.
And again, you might reallyneed some support to go through
this process, and this can be asticky process.
(22:26):
I can't cover it quickly in thepodcast, but just some pointers
about noticing if it'shappening and being able to
again take a break or take abreath and try to move into that
curious place with your partneragain as we move towards the
end.
I will also share just a fewlittle things to remember.
Number one expect challengeshere.
(22:46):
Okay, they are opportunities tobe curious.
If you and your partner havestruggled in the past when it
comes to working as a team andfeeling like you're in
partnership together, then thisis going to be hard.
If it was easy, you'd be doingit already, and there's nothing
wrong with you per se becauseit's been hard in the past.
This is something new.
The fact that you desireworking together is fantastic.
So this is something new andthere's a lot of growth
(23:07):
potential here and that's reallyexciting.
But it doesn't mean that it'llbe easy every step of the way.
It also doesn't mean that it'llbe easy every step of the way.
It also doesn't mean that ithas to be hard every step of the
way.
So there's a lot ofopportunities to be curious.
But know that this is somethingnew and there's going to be
bumps along the road, but thatdoesn't have to stop you or end
the whole process.
You might just have to take abreak and come back.
It might not just be oneconversation.
(23:28):
As a matter of fact, it'slikely that it won't be one
conversation.
It'll be ongoing conversationsthat you'll learn from and
through as you go along.
I will also tell you to rememberthat you and your partner may
not be in the same place, andthat might mean that your
nervous systems are not in thesame place.
Like, maybe you have gotten toa really safe place, but again
you might come to your partnerand this new way you're
approaching your partner mightland as a threat for them and so
(23:50):
their nervous system might gointo a survival place.
But also you might not have thesame goals.
Again you might not agree onwhat step you need to take, or
your partner may be in a place,like I mentioned earlier, that
they really feel like they aredoing work and it feels like an
insult this idea of taking astep together and you might have
to work through that, and sojust know that you might come
very excited with a lot of goodintentions and love, and that is
(24:12):
wonderful and that's that's agreat place to come from.
Your partner might be in adifferent place, especially if
there's been a long history ofdisconnection.
This new shift towards comingcloser and working together
might be like whoa, whoa, whatis this?
So, again, there'sopportunities for curiosity and
growth and perhaps some supportcould be useful as you move
through the process.
Also, please remember this isnot a linear process.
(24:34):
Again, as I kind of said beforeabout my protocol, so to speak,
I try to give concrete examplesabout what people can do,
because I find that helpful, butit's just a guide.
As you're exploring thesethings and working on things,
you're going to be learning andgrowing, but the process can be
very windy.
I often refer to myself in mylife as taking the scenic route,
and sometimes it's a reallybeautiful detour, and other
(24:55):
times I really wish that I hadavoided that particular leg of
my trip, but it was the path Itook and I saw a lot.
Maybe I didn't really feel likeI wanted to see all of the
things that I saw on thatparticular detour, but I have
really come to learn andappreciate whatever comes up and
whatever my view is, as I'mtraveling through this life
(25:16):
again as an individual or inpartnership with my husband Both
ways.
The journey is not alwaysstraight.
Sometimes it's a very windyroad, and sometimes it feels
like you go back on yourself oryou're going around and around
and around the same block overand over again.
Take a break, get regulated,feel safe, see how to reconnect.
You might consider taking a steptowards fun, by the way, or
(25:38):
something like that.
Playfulness, something a littlebit lighter, that might help
you reconnect, and then you maybe able to find a path or a road
that you didn't know existedbefore.
That's certainly been myexperience, and I hope that's
true for you as well.
I also really want to encourageyou to support all the steps
you and your partner taketowards perhaps taking the big
(25:59):
step or the step that you'reworking on, the step that you
have identified you want to taketogether, because sometimes
things don't go as smoothly oras well, or you think one thing
is one step and it might be 10steps to actually get, to be
able to take the step you'retrying to take, and so every
single little bit, even themistakes, are really worth
celebrating, and every smallaccomplishment really is a big
(26:21):
accomplishment, because everyeffort that you take together or
you attempt to take together isa step towards being able to
figure out a new way of being inthe relationship, which is
really really special, andthat's truly what we're trying
to do.
Oftentimes we don't have modelsfor wonderful relationship, and
that's not to insult or bash anyparents or grandparents.
(26:42):
The truth is is that mentalhealth and relationship wellness
, certainly nervous systemwellness those are not concepts
that were available to ourparents and our grandparents and
our great grandparents.
So I truly come from a placethat I believe that everybody is
always doing the best that theycan.
People may very well disagreewith me about that, that's okay.
So I really truly believe thatmy parents, my grandparents, my
(27:03):
great-grandparents, my husband'sparents, his grandparents, all
of our ancestors, all the peoplein our lives, were always doing
their best, but sometimes ISomeone's best just wasn't what
we needed, it wasn't good enoughfor us, or their best still
ended up being a hurt to us.
And that's the process.
That's part of being human, andwhat we do with it now is
really the important part whenyou're in your present day,
(27:23):
current intimate partnership,figuring out how to have the
relationship you really wannahave might be really new.
It might be something youactually haven't had before or
you haven't witnessed before, orspecific parts of it might be
things you haven't had orhaven't seen before.
So you're creating somethingnew which is actually really
exciting.
But also talking about ournervous system.
New things can be really scary,and so sometimes we avoid the
(27:45):
new things, even if in our head,it's what we really want.
If you really can understandthat this is a process and that
change is absolutely possibleand you can have some compassion
for yourself and your partneralong the way, you really can
make truly beautiful thingshappen.
That has absolutely been myexperience with my husband.
I continue to be in awe of whatis possible when I'm regulated,
(28:07):
when I'm working in partnership, as I continue to expand my
awareness and know myself morein my nervous system, and so,
again, I hope that this is alsotrue for you and anybody who's
on a path of healing and growingand trying something new and
trying to heal and have a lifethat is different and hopefully
even better than the one we have, even if your life is pretty
(28:29):
good I have a lot of reallybeautiful parts of my life and
yet there's still a lot of roomfor growth in many ways as well.
So it's not an either or kindof thing.
And my last little reminder isfor you to notice if you or your
partner is doing something thatindicate a survival response
and a protective response.
So if you're trying to takesteps for your partner again
that fight response that Imentioned earlier, that
(28:50):
mobilized response to threat mypartner is not taking their
steps I have to take them forthem or my partner is not doing
what I think they should do, soI think they should do this.
Those are really mobilizedresponses to threat.
So notice if that's coming upand take a breath and try to
take a step back.
I'm making that sound reallyeasy.
I know that it may not be, butit's worth paying attention to.
Also, if you have the feeling oryou notice your partner wanting
(29:12):
to give up, or if you're havinga hard time finding time to
talk about this with yourpartner, or you've talked about
it once and then you somehowmagically never got to talk
about it again, those are allindicators, and there's so many
more that this feels scary insome way.
But there's a lot of stuff atplay and I just encourage you to
notice those things andidentify them, and then you can
(29:35):
start to do something with themand you can say, hey, I'm
feeling scared, or, oh, mypartner's feeling scared, or
this is new and this is unknown,and so it feels a little bit
like we should be cautious hereand again.
Every time that you can reachfor some more compassion for
yourself and for your partner,it's really an opportunity to
allow your nervous system to bemore in that grounded, safe
(29:55):
place, and then there is so muchmore possibility available to
you because we are so limitedwhen we're in survival.
And that is truly what I havelearned and I will continue to
talk about with you, and I hopethat, as you're on this journey,
your nervous system continuesto be able to find more and more
ways to move and stay inventral as often as you can.
(30:17):
As you're on this journey, Ihope that you and your partner
find lots of opportunities tomove your own nervous systems
into that ventral, safe,connected space, which doesn't
necessarily mean happy and zenand beautiful, it's just being
able to connect.
So it's like, okay, we have adifference of opinion and we can
figure that out.
It's not, we have a differenceof opinion, and now you're a
threat to me, right?
So, again, there's so much totalk about here, but to know
(30:40):
that you can connect throughyour differences and you can
grow through your differencesit's at the core of the work I
do in Imago Relationship Therapyand it's just in line with my
beliefs and my experiences.
And so good luck to you and Ilook forward to talking with you
more about all of these things,and I hope you join me next
week.
(31:16):
Stop and move back out into theworld on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(31:40):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(32:03):
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today ispossible for everyone, including
you.
Today is possible for everyone,including you, and even when
depression is in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
(32:25):
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
(32:46):
a step.
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