March 26, 2025 • 27 mins
What if those recurring thoughts about leaving your relationship aren't actually telling you to leave, but instead signaling something deeper happening in your nervous system?
In this vulnerable exploration of relationship indecision, I share my own experience of contemplating divorce "more times than I could count" over twenty years of being in a relationship affected by depression. Through this journey, I've discovered that thoughts of leaving often serve as safety signals when we're feeling trapped or powerless—not necessarily indicators that ending the relationship is what we truly want or need.
Drawing on polyvagal theory and my therapeutic experience, I unpack how our nervous system state fundamentally impacts our relationship interpretation. When we're in fight-or-flight mode or collapsed in hopelessness, connection isn't biologically possible—we're simply trying to survive. This explains why even loving partners can perceive each other as threats and why making truly conscious decisions requires learning to regulate ourselves first.
I explore the complicated role of hope in relationships where depression is present, distinguishing between wishful thinking and grounded hope based on evidence of growth. Depression's emotional withdrawal makes relationship work tremendously difficult, not from unwillingness but from a genuine inability to access connection. The path forward involves learning to recognize "microscopic progress"—those tiny shifts that accumulate toward healing but often remain invisible until they've collected momentum.
Whether you're questioning your relationship's future or supporting someone who is, this episode offers compassionate insight into making decisions that truly align with who you are and what you want. Take a step today toward greater clarity and connection—movement toward joy is possible for everyone, even when depression is in your bed.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 0 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you still holding hope foryour relationship, even though
it's been hard for quite sometime?
If this applies to you, join metoday for a compassionate
conversation about hope, whatmay be under your indecision,
and more that can help you makea conscious decision about your
(00:22):
relationship that is truly inalignment with who you are, what
you want and how you want tocreate your future.
I'm your host, trish Sanders.
Let's get started.
The last episode that Irecorded was about the seven
questions that I developed thathave helped me to make a
conscious decision about whetherI wanted to stay in my
relationship or not, and so Ishared those to help anyone out
(00:46):
there who is struggling withthat really difficult question
of whether they wanna stay intheir relationship or not.
And the episode was by far themost difficult one so far for me
to record, and it wasn'tdifficult so much because it was
emotional for me.
It was really because I had somuch that I wanted to share
about this topic, because I havereally thought about ending my
(01:06):
relationship so many times overthe last 20 years, because
depression has been present andbecause it's been so difficult
to connect with my husband somuch of the time, and even
before we were married, we weretogether for six years before we
got married and this dynamicwas true then as well, and so I
re-recorded the last episode somany times, which is not
something I've done before, justbecause I really wanted to fine
(01:28):
tune what my vision for thelast episode was, to give you
some clear steps that you couldtake, a clear outline of my own
thought process and thequestions that I found helpful
when I was trying to make adecision about what to do about
the future of my relationshipand after I recorded that
(01:49):
there's so much more that I wantto share, and I do want to talk
through my own process of goingthrough those questions with
you, and I do plan to do that.
But I realized that I was alsositting with other thoughts that
weren't exactly questions, butimportant truths or what have
become truths for me that havereally supported me in my
relationship journey, both inmaking a decision about staying
in the relationship or not, butalso how I've come to understand
(02:10):
why I've thought so much aboutbreaking up or getting divorced
and what has been reallyimportant to me as I've figured
out time and time again that Iwanted to stay in the
relationship.
So I wanted to share thosethoughts with you today, and if
they resonate with you, thenperhaps they will further
support you being able to make aconscious decision about the
future of your relationship.
(02:32):
So the first thing that I sortof touched on already is that I
have thought about leaving myrelationship literally more
times than I could even begin tocount, and some of those were
times when I was trying todetermine do I want to move
forward with ending thisrelationship, and that's where
the questions that I shared inthe last episode really came
(02:54):
from.
Beyond that, though, it feelslike easily a million other
times the question of should Ijust leave this relationship has
come into my mind, and that hasbeen both when I have been in a
very hopeless state and, inpolyvagal theory, I would say my
nervous system was in a dorsalshutdown collapse state, and I
just felt really hopeless aboutthe future of our relationship.
(03:16):
I felt really powerless to doanything about the relationship,
and there was just sort of likeugh, it would just be easier to
leave, feeling, or in timeswhen I was extremely frustrated
and more activated, like I don'tneed to put up with this
anymore.
I can go, you know, live abetter life on my own, or I'll
find somebody else and I'll havea better relationship with
somebody else in the future andsort of like a more angry,
(03:38):
usually, energy.
And what I've come to realizeabout all of those times when
divorce or breakup has come tomy mind which it still comes to
my mind occasionally now, as amatter of fact, just this
morning it popped into my headand I'll tell you a little bit
about how I process that butI've come to realize that the
(03:58):
thought of leaving therelationship, in addition to
being sometimes something veryvalid that I'm legitimately
considering, it, also representswhat I would say is a
regulating cue of safety for me.
And what that means is is thatwhen I'm really revved up or
really hopeless so that revvedup, angry, sympathetic energy,
that fight or flight energy, oragain that dorsal, shut down,
(04:21):
collapse energy, when I thinkabout leaving the relationship,
it makes me feel a little bettersometimes because it feels like
, oh, I have a choice, I'm notstuck, and that can help me to
feel somewhat better.
Right, if I feel powerless orif I feel angry at my husband,
then it makes sense that,knowing that I'm not stuck in
that situation can help me tofeel better.
(04:42):
But what I have noticed overtime is that if I find some
relief in thinking about leaving, I sometimes will go into a
real emotional shutdown for myhusband, like I won't say
anything to him, necessarily Iwon't tell him that I'm thinking
about leaving, but I'll sort ofin my head just be like, okay,
I don't have to put up with anyof this, I don't have to care
about any of this because I'mgoing to leave anyway.
(05:04):
And my real emotionaldisconnect or pullback or
withdrawal from my husband, eventhough in my own system I'm
feeling some relief or some easerelationally, it's really
detrimental because I'mdisconnecting so completely from
my husband.
And so I have realized thisover time and I've seen the
(05:24):
impact and I see how me feelingrelief sometimes in that
specific way, can contribute tomore problems in the
relationship.
So I mentioned that just thismorning.
The thought of should I justget a divorce popped into my
head.
Now I recognize at this pointthat that thought pops into my
head when I need to have afeeling of choice.
I wasn't actually feeling thismorning that I really wanted to
(05:45):
divorce my husband and I knewthat immediately.
It was more like once thatthought came in my head, I was
like, oh, I must really befeeling stuck or frustrated
right now.
And I was in fact feeling stuckand frustrated, and so I took
that as like a little signal tosay well, I feel like I need to
have choice and I know thatmoving towards connection and
(06:06):
getting myself to a place whereI can feel curious about my
husband is helpful.
It took me a few minutesbecause, you know, if I was
feeling activated and triggered,I wasn't actually feeling very
curious about my husband, to behonest, but I realized that.
So I sort of worked onregulating myself enough to be
able to get to a point where Iwas able to go to him and say,
hey, are you open to having alittle talk about how this
morning's been going?
I noticed in myself a resistance, a pulling back from wanting to
(06:29):
talk to you, because I wasfeeling so frustrated and I
really wanted to be more curiousabout what's happening for you
so we can address this.
And then eventually I did alsoshare with him.
You know, I noticed in myselfthat I was thinking about
divorce, and I know for surethat that's not what I want and
that that's just trying to helpme feel safe, and so I share
this because I think that it canbe so easy to believe the
(06:52):
thoughts that are in our headbecause they're in our head.
But, as I've shared before andwill absolutely share again, the
interpretation that we'remaking in any given moment is
because of the state our nervoussystem is currently in, and so
if my nervous system is in asympathetic state, which I
definitely was in, and I had abit of fight or flight feeling
this morning, I want to get outof here, I want to get a divorce
is one of the extreme versionsof leaving a relationship right.
(07:15):
I didn't just leave the houseand go for coffee with a friend
In my head, I was trying to getaway from the relationship as
far as I could get, which wouldbe divorcing right, completely
leaving the relationship, and soI share this, not only because
it was really very powerfulfinding for myself, like I said,
this kind of truth about me,that I frequently thought about
divorce as a way of findingsafety for myself and it wasn't
(07:38):
always really what I actuallywanted but also to share why, in
the questions that I shared inthe last episode, I invite you
to think about the strengths ofyour relationship and I also
invite you to work on your ownself-regulation.
And it might sound unfair tosome people.
I certainly know that formyself I have felt that it was
unfair or I was being burdenedyet again with having to do the
(08:00):
relationship work.
But the truth is is that whenwe're in that survival mode,
when we're feeling hopeless orfrustrated with the relationship
and depression being present inthe relationship absolutely
contributes to that happeningright when we're in that
survival mode, it doesn'tactually benefit us to be
thinking about the positives ofthe relationship because we're
(08:21):
trying to protect ourselves,we're trying to survive.
So thinking oh, maybe this isnot so dangerous can feel really
threatening.
Trying to anchor yourself in amore accurate awareness, like
are there times when we reallydo still feel connected?
And what does that relationshipfeel like?
You know the statistic that Ihave often given.
(08:41):
It's not based on any facts,it's just my feeling about my
experience, but I usually havesaid that about 75% of the time
or more, my husband and I areeither, you know, somewhat
disconnected to really unhappyor really miserable.
And this is, like I said, anoverall figure from the last 20
years.
I don't have data to support.
You know what has beenhappening and it's shifted over
the last several years, which iswonderful news.
(09:02):
But that left only about 25% ofthe time that we felt okay to
good.
So far more of the time we feltbad, and it might make sense for
someone with that level ofrelational dissatisfaction to
end a relationship and say, hey,if this relationship doesn't
feel good over 75% of the time,I don't want to stay in this
relationship.
And that would be totally fineif that's what made sense to
somebody.
But for me that wasn't how itwas, because I really tried to
(09:26):
make conscious decisions andthat's just not what made sense
for me and I stayed in therelationship.
But trying to hold on to thethings that are positive, the
reasons that you got together inthe first place, that's really
important so that you can reallymake a conscious decision about
why you're leaving and not justmake it from that survival
place which, of course, ifyou're in a fight or flight mode
attacking or running is whatyour nervous system wants to do.
(09:47):
And if you're in a hopelessplace, your nervous system wants
to disconnect and withdraw andhide and be invisible and not
put in any more work.
And so the importance ofregulating ourselves, which
connects to that really bigquestion which was question
number six in the last episodeof can you deeply love and care
for yourself and still be inthis relationship?
(10:07):
And a lot of the time whendepression is present, the
answer is probably no.
I can't deeply care and lovemyself and still be in this
relationship, and that appliesfor me, like when I'm depressed,
I'm not deeply caring andloving myself.
That's absolutely true, and ifmy partner is depressed,
historically I have beenabsolutely awful about
prioritizing my own needs.
There has been virtually noprioritizing of my own needs for
(10:29):
so much of our relationship,which was my conscious or
unconscious decision, dependingon which moment.
But being able to stretch intothat, being able to take care of
myself, allows me to beregulated a lot more of the time
, and that is a true gift in howI show up in my relationship,
as evidenced by this morning.
You know, when the thoughtpopped in my head oh my gosh,
should I just get a divorce?
I immediately was able torecognize I know that that's not
(10:51):
what I want.
This thought means I'mdysregulated, and so what's
going on here and how do Iregulate?
And then I worked on that, andthen I came to my husband, was
able to talk with him about it,and so the important takeaway
maybe that's what this is, sometakeaways that I have found over
the course of thinking aboutdivorce or breakup so many times
in my relationship is that aconscious decision really can
(11:12):
only be made when you're in aregulated place, and being in
relational conflict that'sunresolved and especially if
it's unresolved for long periodsof time is usually a pretty
dysregulating place.
That's why the focus is what'sreally happening for me.
You can more clearly see isthis a relationship that feels
good for me to be in or not?
When you're regulated?
And the other really importantthing about being regulated is
(11:35):
that our nervous systemscommunicate with our partner's
nervous system without us evenbeing aware of it, and if you're
checked out like again formyself, I absolutely know that
this is true there have beentimes in my relationship where I
could see in real time that Iknew I was really checked out of
our relationship and I couldsee my partner respond in a
negative way because he alsofelt threatened Because my
nervous saying, you know, to hisnervous system, even if I
(11:57):
didn't say a word, hey, I'm notconnected to you and I'm not
available to you and I'm notputting in any effort to our
relationship, or we're good atsilent tension, and so when I
was really angry and likeactivated and thinking about
divorce, I could also could becommunicating like, hey, I'm out
of here and I could be veryaggressive without saying a word
, and that only hurts therelationship and really keeps us
(12:18):
stuck in these patterns.
And that's why it's soimportant to try to make the
things that are unconscious moreconscious, so we can really be
aware and make a choice aboutwhether it makes sense or not to
stay in the relationship.
And it's also connected, Ithink, to the questions that I
asked in the last episode of areyou willing to do the work of
relationship and is your partnerwilling to do the work of
relationship?
(12:39):
And after recording it, Ireally thought about it and I
realized that I also think thatit's important to add are you
willing to do the work ofrelationship with this person?
And does it seem like yourpartner is willing to do the
work of relationship with you?
Because and I've had people saylike, well, it's not that I'm
not willing to do the work or Ican do hard work, that's not the
problem.
(12:59):
So it's not a criticism.
It's really like tuning in.
Does it make sense for you, andmaybe you're willing to work
really hard for a relationship,but maybe this just isn't the
relationship that it reallymakes sense for you to work hard
in.
So it's not a question of areyou willing or able to do this
hard relationship work thateveryone has to do at some point
in their lives, becauserelationships in fact take work
(13:19):
at some point.
I mean, they shouldn't beconstant work.
You shouldn't be breaking yourback all the time for the whole
length of a relationship.
But of course, challenges andconflicts come up and they need
to be addressed.
But perhaps there's justsomething about this
relationship that it just nolonger makes sense for you to do
the work.
Or, conversely, maybe you'rekind of getting a vibe that your
partner maybe is at a placewhere it doesn't make sense for
(13:40):
them to do the work ofrelationship and it's not a
personal thing either Like it'snot.
Like well, your partner is notgood enough.
He, she, they doesn't deserveme doing the work for them
because there's something badabout them.
Or there's something wrong withyou that your partner is not
willing to do the work for youbecause you're defective in some
way or not good enough.
Of course, you can maybe startto hear that this can really be
(14:00):
an easy trigger for some of ourunconscious stuff to come up
really into the forefront.
But it's just like you knowwhat, given what has happened,
given who we are, where we are,it just doesn't feel like this
is a fit, and so it can feelvery personal, of course, but I
think that it's a very relevant,understandable question to ask
yourself does it really makesense for me to do the work for
this particular relationship?
And the clearest choice thatyou can make is when you are
(14:23):
regulated.
And I also want to add that,when it comes to doing the work
of relationship, sometimespeople really feel the burden of
having to do all the work, andsometimes people won't take a
step because they feel liketheir partner hasn't taken a
step which can really leadthings to unravel quickly.
Because I usually tell peopleif you imagine the relationship
garden I refer to that a lot Ifyou're like, well, I'm not going
to water the garden because mypartner is not watering the
(14:45):
garden, well, the garden is notgoing to grow right, somebody
has to take care of it.
And so, if you're able to takea step and you're not feeling
resentful about it, then Ihighly recommend doing that,
because it doesn't make sensefor you to take 10,000 steps,
you know, or 100 steps if yourpartner takes none.
But what one step looks likefor you may be different than
what one step looks like foryour partner.
(15:06):
And so, again, from this reallyconscious place, if it feels
like there's something in thisrelationship that you want to
salvage, that you want to save,that you want to repair, that
you want to see if it can grow,then you probably have to do
something.
Waiting around for your partnerto do it or show that they're
willing to do the work may notget the result you want, but you
might be waiting to see whatthey have to offer.
But then, on the flip side,they might be waiting for you to
(15:28):
show that the relationshipmatters to you.
So it can really be complicatedand there is a lot of very
unconscious stuff andmisinterpretation.
Misinterpretation is huge aboutwhat keeps us stuck in these
old patterns and can easily leadus to a place of feeling like
we want to get out of therelationship, when maybe that
really is what makes sense foryou to leave the relationship.
(15:48):
But maybe there's so much moregoing on under the surface that
you just haven't understoodclearly yet or that your partner
hasn't understood clearly yet.
I also want to talk aboutsomething that I think is
extremely important andsomething that I have been very
aware of in myself, and I see itcommonly in other relationships
(16:10):
.
But I consider myself to bevery good at holding hope, which
, as a therapist, I think isprobably an asset, because it is
really quite easy most of thetime for me to hold hope for
those who come into my officeLike I really believe that
things can get better, even intoday's climate in the United
States.
In the larger world, there's alot of things that can easily
(16:31):
get people feeling hopeless orangry or anxious, and I totally
understand all of those feelingsand certainly have some of
those feelings myself.
And still I also hold a largehopefulness that we're going to
figure this out.
We're going to figure this outas a country, we're going to
figure this out as a world, anda lot of the time in my
relationship I also hold a lotof hope.
I, of course, have felthopeless as well in my
(16:53):
relationship.
I wouldn't be thinking aboutdivorcing or breaking up if I
didn't feel hopeless from timeto time, but certainly in a
regulated place I have a ton ofhope, and sometimes that
hopefulness can get conveyedinaccurately to the belief that
everyone should stay together,and that is not how I feel at
all.
And so I want to just talkabout hope for a moment.
(17:14):
And so there is a differencebetween holding hope for your
relationship because you reallywish the relationship would work
out or holding hope because youknow if your partner just did
this thing, they would be betterand your relationship would be
better, and you don't havereally any evidence to see that
(17:36):
they're moving towards takingcare of themselves in that kind
of way.
But you're just hoping.
You're just're just wishing,and maybe from a very loving
place, certainly.
Maybe you see something amazingin them.
Part of what allows me to holdhope so well so much of the time
is because I do really believethat all humans are deserving of
love and have beauty inside ofthem.
I don't know if that soundscheesy or something.
(17:56):
I've had teenage clients tellme that what I say sounds cheesy
, but it's really like mygenuine belief.
I think we all offer somethingreally important and beautiful
in this world and based on somany things, we end up feeling
more different than more similarand we end up becoming
polarized and taking sides andbeing against, rather than
seeing our common humanity andbeing able to connect.
(18:18):
And I think that this applieson a very grand macro scale in
the world, and then I also thinkit applies in relationship just
with your partner, that thereis an absolute common humanity
and there's a reason why youconnected with your partner in
the first place.
There is something you saw inone another that was delightful
and joyful and beautiful andattractive physically, but like
(18:40):
who you are was attractive toyour partner and who your
partner was was attractive toyou Like magnets pulled towards
each other, right, that kind ofattraction.
And so that's there.
And if you hold hope becausethat's there, of course that
makes sense.
However, that kind of hope is,in fact, different than holding
hope because you have seenthings in yourself, in your
(19:03):
partner, in your relationship,that lead you to being able to
hold that belief of saying, likeyou know what things have been
hard and I'm seeing effort, I'mseeing curiosity, I'm seeing
something happening, and Imentioned this in the last
episode about looking at yourpartner's willingness.
It can be hard to determinebecause sometimes you're not
literally seeing the progressthat's happening in yourself or
(19:25):
in your partner and I refer tomicroscopic progress that so
much growth and healing happensin these teeny, tiny ways.
And in polyvagal theory theyactually talk about micro
moments and how our nervoussystem grows and stretches
through these tiny, little, minimicro moments of a new
experience.
And so those little microscopicchange moments can sometimes be
(19:46):
invisible to the naked eyeuntil many of them happen, and
then you can actually observethem.
So, again, it's a trickyphenomenon and it takes being
able to self-regulate, which isdefinitely not always easy to do
, in order to be able to be in aplace where connection is even
possible, because when we're ina survival mode, connection is
not possible.
When we're angry and frustratedand in that sympathetic fight
(20:10):
or flight place which also againcould include like let me just
get out of this relationship,forget about my partner, it's
not worth it or if we're in thatdorsal shutdown, collapsed,
hopeless place, we feel like wecould just give up on our
relationship.
Connection is not actuallyavailable to us in those states,
because our only goal is tosurvive and connecting,
especially if what is availableto connect to seems like a
(20:31):
threat.
Right, but even if your partneris in a loving place, if you're
in a sympathetic or dorsalplace, if your nervous system is
in a survival state, you arestill likely to interpret your
partner as a threat.
And the reverse is true.
If your partner is in asurvival state, even if you're
coming at them with kindness andlove, they are looking through
I've talked about thosedepression goggles, fight or
flight goggles.
They're seeing you through thelens of their nervous system
(20:54):
state and they are likely toperceive you as a threat, and so
, again, this contributes tomore conflict and more
questioning of should I even bein this relationship?
Even when I try, and I come tomy partner with love, they don't
react well.
And so there's a lot here, andthis is why I started this
podcast because I've learned anawful lot through my
relationship challenges, and Ireally want to share it with you
, because I myself have alwaysknown that I love my husband and
(21:16):
I've always been very clearthat he has felt like he loves
me.
And yet we have had so muchhardship over the years and I
figured out some things thathave been really helpful to me,
and that's why I'm sharing themwith you.
I do want to just say two morethings, and one is specifically
about depression and how thatstuckness, that collapse, being
emotionally withdrawn andfeeling like connection is
(21:39):
hopeless.
It's not even an option.
Option it's not available toyou can really get in the way of
a partner doing their work and,again, if they're so stuck so
much of the time they'reunavailable for you and then
you're not in a relationshipwith them right, and that's what
it can feel like they'reunreachable, you can't connect
with them, they're not there foryou.
If that's happening a lot ofthe time, then maybe it does
make sense to end therelationship.
(22:00):
That's really a very individualdecision.
It's also possible that theydon't understand what's
happening for them.
There's so much what I wouldcall sort of misinformation or
maybe misleading informationabout depression that there's a
lot of message abouthopelessness and that either you
have to be on medication forthe rest of your life, which for
some people might be true, butit might not be true for
everybody and it's also notalways the only option for
(22:22):
people.
There's also so much shame andit can feel so horrible to want
to feel better and not know thepath there.
It is not your responsibility,for you to help your partner
find their path to wellness.
But if you're in a place whereit still makes sense for you to
be in your relationship, thereare potentially ways to support
your partner in them being ableto have space to figure out what
(22:43):
they need.
So it's not you figuring outwhat they need, but there are
ways to support creating thatenvironment where growth and
healing is possible, which Iwill talk about more at other
times.
I just wanted to really saythat someone being depressed can
really get in the way of themdoing the work, or you seeing
them doing the work, which doesnot mean that there's not
actually a willingnessunderneath, that they might very
(23:03):
much want to do the work, butthey might just feel powerless
to do it.
So again, there's a lot toconsider there.
And then the last thing I justwant to mention before I wrap up
for today is that I talk a lotabout consulting a therapist as
you're going through this, or awellness practitioner or a
healer or a trusted friend, andI just want to highlight how
important it is to choosesomebody who is going to
(23:26):
actually support your process intrying to figure out if you
want to stay in a relationshipor if you want to end it, and if
you choose to stay, whatoptions are available to you?
Because it can be really easyto go to a friend or a family
member and vent and complainabout your relationship and they
may just get right on boardwith you.
And, similarly, having thethought of like, oh, I want to
(23:47):
get divorced, sometimes that cangive you a momentary sense of
relief.
Venting to a friend might giveyou a cue of safety.
I feel heard, I feel listenedto, I feel understood, I feel
validated, and that can feelreally good.
But it can also be detrimentalto the relationship because then
you know, you might be reallyfired up and more angry than
when you started theconversation, or maybe you walk
out feeling even more hopelessthan when you started the
(24:10):
conversation and neither ofthose will support growth your
own growth or the relationship'sgrowth.
And I remember actually, when,shortly after my husband and I
got separated, I found somethingsomewhere I honestly don't
remember where it was, but itwas something that said
something to the effect of nevertalk badly about your partner
to anyone ever.
And I was like, oh no, likegosh, I have definitely made
(24:33):
some missteps here.
I've vented to a lot of peopleabout my husband and it actually
felt almost impossible for meto think about not doing that,
like well, what should I do then?
Do I just not tell anybody?
Do I just not talk to anybodyabout how difficult this
relationship is?
But it also resonated with meand I understood.
And if you can't talk to yourpartner, if communication
directly with your partner isnot available at the moment,
(24:54):
getting support and often thatmight be couples therapy or
couples workshops that I run,which is what we talk about how
to communicate effectively withyour partner those are the
skills that we share so get somesupport in being able to talk
to your partner directly so thatyou can problem solve within
the relationship.
But if that's not available yet, choose people like a therapist
or somebody who can kind ofremain neutral and be a
(25:16):
container for you to process,not that you're venting and
complaining, but that you'rereally sharing your own
experience.
You're thinking about whatcould be helpful in the
relationship for yourself.
What does deep self-care anddeep self-love look like, and
somebody who won't fuel yourfire or support your
hopelessness, which is tricky,but they definitely exist out
(25:36):
there.
So I hope that these takeawaysthat I have learned over the
last two decades feel helpful toyou in some way.
I would love to hear about whatyou connected with and I look
forward to sharing more aboutthis really difficult and
important topic with you in thenext few episodes.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
(25:58):
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
(26:18):
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
(26:40):
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest, or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
(27:00):
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today ispossible for everyone, including
you, and even when depressionis in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
(27:22):
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you still holding hope foryour relationship, even though
it's been hard for quite sometime?
If this applies to you, join metoday for a compassionate
conversation about hope, whatmay be under your indecision,
and more that can help you makea conscious decision about your
(00:22):
relationship that is truly inalignment with who you are, what
you want and how you want tocreate your future.
I'm your host, trish Sanders.
Let's get started.
The last episode that Irecorded was about the seven
questions that I developed thathave helped me to make a
conscious decision about whetherI wanted to stay in my
relationship or not, and so Ishared those to help anyone out
(00:46):
there who is struggling withthat really difficult question
of whether they wanna stay intheir relationship or not.
And the episode was by far themost difficult one so far for me
to record, and it wasn'tdifficult so much because it was
emotional for me.
It was really because I had somuch that I wanted to share
about this topic, because I havereally thought about ending my
(01:06):
relationship so many times overthe last 20 years, because
depression has been present andbecause it's been so difficult
to connect with my husband somuch of the time, and even
before we were married, we weretogether for six years before we
got married and this dynamicwas true then as well, and so I
re-recorded the last episode somany times, which is not
something I've done before, justbecause I really wanted to fine
(01:28):
tune what my vision for thelast episode was, to give you
some clear steps that you couldtake, a clear outline of my own
thought process and thequestions that I found helpful
when I was trying to make adecision about what to do about
the future of my relationshipand after I recorded that
(01:49):
there's so much more that I wantto share, and I do want to talk
through my own process of goingthrough those questions with
you, and I do plan to do that.
But I realized that I was alsositting with other thoughts that
weren't exactly questions, butimportant truths or what have
become truths for me that havereally supported me in my
relationship journey, both inmaking a decision about staying
in the relationship or not, butalso how I've come to understand
(02:10):
why I've thought so much aboutbreaking up or getting divorced
and what has been reallyimportant to me as I've figured
out time and time again that Iwanted to stay in the
relationship.
So I wanted to share thosethoughts with you today, and if
they resonate with you, thenperhaps they will further
support you being able to make aconscious decision about the
future of your relationship.
(02:32):
So the first thing that I sortof touched on already is that I
have thought about leaving myrelationship literally more
times than I could even begin tocount, and some of those were
times when I was trying todetermine do I want to move
forward with ending thisrelationship, and that's where
the questions that I shared inthe last episode really came
(02:54):
from.
Beyond that, though, it feelslike easily a million other
times the question of should Ijust leave this relationship has
come into my mind, and that hasbeen both when I have been in a
very hopeless state and, inpolyvagal theory, I would say my
nervous system was in a dorsalshutdown collapse state, and I
just felt really hopeless aboutthe future of our relationship.
(03:16):
I felt really powerless to doanything about the relationship,
and there was just sort of likeugh, it would just be easier to
leave, feeling, or in timeswhen I was extremely frustrated
and more activated, like I don'tneed to put up with this
anymore.
I can go, you know, live abetter life on my own, or I'll
find somebody else and I'll havea better relationship with
somebody else in the future andsort of like a more angry,
(03:38):
usually, energy.
And what I've come to realizeabout all of those times when
divorce or breakup has come tomy mind which it still comes to
my mind occasionally now, as amatter of fact, just this
morning it popped into my headand I'll tell you a little bit
about how I process that butI've come to realize that the
(03:58):
thought of leaving therelationship, in addition to
being sometimes something veryvalid that I'm legitimately
considering, it, also representswhat I would say is a
regulating cue of safety for me.
And what that means is is thatwhen I'm really revved up or
really hopeless so that revvedup, angry, sympathetic energy,
that fight or flight energy, oragain that dorsal, shut down,
(04:21):
collapse energy, when I thinkabout leaving the relationship,
it makes me feel a little bettersometimes because it feels like
, oh, I have a choice, I'm notstuck, and that can help me to
feel somewhat better.
Right, if I feel powerless orif I feel angry at my husband,
then it makes sense that,knowing that I'm not stuck in
that situation can help me tofeel better.
(04:42):
But what I have noticed overtime is that if I find some
relief in thinking about leaving, I sometimes will go into a
real emotional shutdown for myhusband, like I won't say
anything to him, necessarily Iwon't tell him that I'm thinking
about leaving, but I'll sort ofin my head just be like, okay,
I don't have to put up with anyof this, I don't have to care
about any of this because I'mgoing to leave anyway.
(05:04):
And my real emotionaldisconnect or pullback or
withdrawal from my husband, eventhough in my own system I'm
feeling some relief or some easerelationally, it's really
detrimental because I'mdisconnecting so completely from
my husband.
And so I have realized thisover time and I've seen the
(05:24):
impact and I see how me feelingrelief sometimes in that
specific way, can contribute tomore problems in the
relationship.
So I mentioned that just thismorning.
The thought of should I justget a divorce popped into my
head.
Now I recognize at this pointthat that thought pops into my
head when I need to have afeeling of choice.
I wasn't actually feeling thismorning that I really wanted to
(05:45):
divorce my husband and I knewthat immediately.
It was more like once thatthought came in my head, I was
like, oh, I must really befeeling stuck or frustrated
right now.
And I was in fact feeling stuckand frustrated, and so I took
that as like a little signal tosay well, I feel like I need to
have choice and I know thatmoving towards connection and
(06:06):
getting myself to a place whereI can feel curious about my
husband is helpful.
It took me a few minutesbecause, you know, if I was
feeling activated and triggered,I wasn't actually feeling very
curious about my husband, to behonest, but I realized that.
So I sort of worked onregulating myself enough to be
able to get to a point where Iwas able to go to him and say,
hey, are you open to having alittle talk about how this
morning's been going?
I noticed in myself a resistance, a pulling back from wanting to
(06:29):
talk to you, because I wasfeeling so frustrated and I
really wanted to be more curiousabout what's happening for you
so we can address this.
And then eventually I did alsoshare with him.
You know, I noticed in myselfthat I was thinking about
divorce, and I know for surethat that's not what I want and
that that's just trying to helpme feel safe, and so I share
this because I think that it canbe so easy to believe the
(06:52):
thoughts that are in our headbecause they're in our head.
But, as I've shared before andwill absolutely share again, the
interpretation that we'remaking in any given moment is
because of the state our nervoussystem is currently in, and so
if my nervous system is in asympathetic state, which I
definitely was in, and I had abit of fight or flight feeling
this morning, I want to get outof here, I want to get a divorce
is one of the extreme versionsof leaving a relationship right.
(07:15):
I didn't just leave the houseand go for coffee with a friend
In my head, I was trying to getaway from the relationship as
far as I could get, which wouldbe divorcing right, completely
leaving the relationship, and soI share this, not only because
it was really very powerfulfinding for myself, like I said,
this kind of truth about me,that I frequently thought about
divorce as a way of findingsafety for myself and it wasn't
(07:38):
always really what I actuallywanted but also to share why, in
the questions that I shared inthe last episode, I invite you
to think about the strengths ofyour relationship and I also
invite you to work on your ownself-regulation.
And it might sound unfair tosome people.
I certainly know that formyself I have felt that it was
unfair or I was being burdenedyet again with having to do the
(08:00):
relationship work.
But the truth is is that whenwe're in that survival mode,
when we're feeling hopeless orfrustrated with the relationship
and depression being present inthe relationship absolutely
contributes to that happeningright when we're in that
survival mode, it doesn'tactually benefit us to be
thinking about the positives ofthe relationship because we're
(08:21):
trying to protect ourselves,we're trying to survive.
So thinking oh, maybe this isnot so dangerous can feel really
threatening.
Trying to anchor yourself in amore accurate awareness, like
are there times when we reallydo still feel connected?
And what does that relationshipfeel like?
You know the statistic that Ihave often given.
(08:41):
It's not based on any facts,it's just my feeling about my
experience, but I usually havesaid that about 75% of the time
or more, my husband and I areeither, you know, somewhat
disconnected to really unhappyor really miserable.
And this is, like I said, anoverall figure from the last 20
years.
I don't have data to support.
You know what has beenhappening and it's shifted over
the last several years, which iswonderful news.
(09:02):
But that left only about 25% ofthe time that we felt okay to
good.
So far more of the time we feltbad, and it might make sense for
someone with that level ofrelational dissatisfaction to
end a relationship and say, hey,if this relationship doesn't
feel good over 75% of the time,I don't want to stay in this
relationship.
And that would be totally fineif that's what made sense to
somebody.
But for me that wasn't how itwas, because I really tried to
(09:26):
make conscious decisions andthat's just not what made sense
for me and I stayed in therelationship.
But trying to hold on to thethings that are positive, the
reasons that you got together inthe first place, that's really
important so that you can reallymake a conscious decision about
why you're leaving and not justmake it from that survival
place which, of course, ifyou're in a fight or flight mode
attacking or running is whatyour nervous system wants to do.
(09:47):
And if you're in a hopelessplace, your nervous system wants
to disconnect and withdraw andhide and be invisible and not
put in any more work.
And so the importance ofregulating ourselves, which
connects to that really bigquestion which was question
number six in the last episodeof can you deeply love and care
for yourself and still be inthis relationship?
(10:07):
And a lot of the time whendepression is present, the
answer is probably no.
I can't deeply care and lovemyself and still be in this
relationship, and that appliesfor me, like when I'm depressed,
I'm not deeply caring andloving myself.
That's absolutely true, and ifmy partner is depressed,
historically I have beenabsolutely awful about
prioritizing my own needs.
There has been virtually noprioritizing of my own needs for
(10:29):
so much of our relationship,which was my conscious or
unconscious decision, dependingon which moment.
But being able to stretch intothat, being able to take care of
myself, allows me to beregulated a lot more of the time
, and that is a true gift in howI show up in my relationship,
as evidenced by this morning.
You know, when the thoughtpopped in my head oh my gosh,
should I just get a divorce?
I immediately was able torecognize I know that that's not
(10:51):
what I want.
This thought means I'mdysregulated, and so what's
going on here and how do Iregulate?
And then I worked on that, andthen I came to my husband, was
able to talk with him about it,and so the important takeaway
maybe that's what this is, sometakeaways that I have found over
the course of thinking aboutdivorce or breakup so many times
in my relationship is that aconscious decision really can
(11:12):
only be made when you're in aregulated place, and being in
relational conflict that'sunresolved and especially if
it's unresolved for long periodsof time is usually a pretty
dysregulating place.
That's why the focus is what'sreally happening for me.
You can more clearly see isthis a relationship that feels
good for me to be in or not?
When you're regulated?
And the other really importantthing about being regulated is
(11:35):
that our nervous systemscommunicate with our partner's
nervous system without us evenbeing aware of it, and if you're
checked out like again formyself, I absolutely know that
this is true there have beentimes in my relationship where I
could see in real time that Iknew I was really checked out of
our relationship and I couldsee my partner respond in a
negative way because he alsofelt threatened Because my
nervous saying, you know, to hisnervous system, even if I
(11:57):
didn't say a word, hey, I'm notconnected to you and I'm not
available to you and I'm notputting in any effort to our
relationship, or we're good atsilent tension, and so when I
was really angry and likeactivated and thinking about
divorce, I could also could becommunicating like, hey, I'm out
of here and I could be veryaggressive without saying a word
, and that only hurts therelationship and really keeps us
(12:18):
stuck in these patterns.
And that's why it's soimportant to try to make the
things that are unconscious moreconscious, so we can really be
aware and make a choice aboutwhether it makes sense or not to
stay in the relationship.
And it's also connected, Ithink, to the questions that I
asked in the last episode of areyou willing to do the work of
relationship and is your partnerwilling to do the work of
relationship?
(12:39):
And after recording it, Ireally thought about it and I
realized that I also think thatit's important to add are you
willing to do the work ofrelationship with this person?
And does it seem like yourpartner is willing to do the
work of relationship with you?
Because and I've had people saylike, well, it's not that I'm
not willing to do the work or Ican do hard work, that's not the
problem.
(12:59):
So it's not a criticism.
It's really like tuning in.
Does it make sense for you, andmaybe you're willing to work
really hard for a relationship,but maybe this just isn't the
relationship that it reallymakes sense for you to work hard
in.
So it's not a question of areyou willing or able to do this
hard relationship work thateveryone has to do at some point
in their lives, becauserelationships in fact take work
(13:19):
at some point.
I mean, they shouldn't beconstant work.
You shouldn't be breaking yourback all the time for the whole
length of a relationship.
But of course, challenges andconflicts come up and they need
to be addressed.
But perhaps there's justsomething about this
relationship that it just nolonger makes sense for you to do
the work.
Or, conversely, maybe you'rekind of getting a vibe that your
partner maybe is at a placewhere it doesn't make sense for
(13:40):
them to do the work ofrelationship and it's not a
personal thing either Like it'snot.
Like well, your partner is notgood enough.
He, she, they doesn't deserveme doing the work for them
because there's something badabout them.
Or there's something wrong withyou that your partner is not
willing to do the work for youbecause you're defective in some
way or not good enough.
Of course, you can maybe startto hear that this can really be
(14:00):
an easy trigger for some of ourunconscious stuff to come up
really into the forefront.
But it's just like you knowwhat, given what has happened,
given who we are, where we are,it just doesn't feel like this
is a fit, and so it can feelvery personal, of course, but I
think that it's a very relevant,understandable question to ask
yourself does it really makesense for me to do the work for
this particular relationship?
And the clearest choice thatyou can make is when you are
(14:23):
regulated.
And I also want to add that,when it comes to doing the work
of relationship, sometimespeople really feel the burden of
having to do all the work, andsometimes people won't take a
step because they feel liketheir partner hasn't taken a
step which can really leadthings to unravel quickly.
Because I usually tell peopleif you imagine the relationship
garden I refer to that a lot Ifyou're like, well, I'm not going
to water the garden because mypartner is not watering the
(14:45):
garden, well, the garden is notgoing to grow right, somebody
has to take care of it.
And so, if you're able to takea step and you're not feeling
resentful about it, then Ihighly recommend doing that,
because it doesn't make sensefor you to take 10,000 steps,
you know, or 100 steps if yourpartner takes none.
But what one step looks likefor you may be different than
what one step looks like foryour partner.
(15:06):
And so, again, from this reallyconscious place, if it feels
like there's something in thisrelationship that you want to
salvage, that you want to save,that you want to repair, that
you want to see if it can grow,then you probably have to do
something.
Waiting around for your partnerto do it or show that they're
willing to do the work may notget the result you want, but you
might be waiting to see whatthey have to offer.
But then, on the flip side,they might be waiting for you to
(15:28):
show that the relationshipmatters to you.
So it can really be complicatedand there is a lot of very
unconscious stuff andmisinterpretation.
Misinterpretation is huge aboutwhat keeps us stuck in these
old patterns and can easily leadus to a place of feeling like
we want to get out of therelationship, when maybe that
really is what makes sense foryou to leave the relationship.
(15:48):
But maybe there's so much moregoing on under the surface that
you just haven't understoodclearly yet or that your partner
hasn't understood clearly yet.
I also want to talk aboutsomething that I think is
extremely important andsomething that I have been very
aware of in myself, and I see itcommonly in other relationships
(16:10):
.
But I consider myself to bevery good at holding hope, which
, as a therapist, I think isprobably an asset, because it is
really quite easy most of thetime for me to hold hope for
those who come into my officeLike I really believe that
things can get better, even intoday's climate in the United
States.
In the larger world, there's alot of things that can easily
(16:31):
get people feeling hopeless orangry or anxious, and I totally
understand all of those feelingsand certainly have some of
those feelings myself.
And still I also hold a largehopefulness that we're going to
figure this out.
We're going to figure this outas a country, we're going to
figure this out as a world, anda lot of the time in my
relationship I also hold a lotof hope.
I, of course, have felthopeless as well in my
(16:53):
relationship.
I wouldn't be thinking aboutdivorcing or breaking up if I
didn't feel hopeless from timeto time, but certainly in a
regulated place I have a ton ofhope, and sometimes that
hopefulness can get conveyedinaccurately to the belief that
everyone should stay together,and that is not how I feel at
all.
And so I want to just talkabout hope for a moment.
(17:14):
And so there is a differencebetween holding hope for your
relationship because you reallywish the relationship would work
out or holding hope because youknow if your partner just did
this thing, they would be betterand your relationship would be
better, and you don't havereally any evidence to see that
(17:36):
they're moving towards takingcare of themselves in that kind
of way.
But you're just hoping.
You're just're just wishing,and maybe from a very loving
place, certainly.
Maybe you see something amazingin them.
Part of what allows me to holdhope so well so much of the time
is because I do really believethat all humans are deserving of
love and have beauty inside ofthem.
I don't know if that soundscheesy or something.
(17:56):
I've had teenage clients tellme that what I say sounds cheesy
, but it's really like mygenuine belief.
I think we all offer somethingreally important and beautiful
in this world and based on somany things, we end up feeling
more different than more similarand we end up becoming
polarized and taking sides andbeing against, rather than
seeing our common humanity andbeing able to connect.
(18:18):
And I think that this applieson a very grand macro scale in
the world, and then I also thinkit applies in relationship just
with your partner, that thereis an absolute common humanity
and there's a reason why youconnected with your partner in
the first place.
There is something you saw inone another that was delightful
and joyful and beautiful andattractive physically, but like
(18:40):
who you are was attractive toyour partner and who your
partner was was attractive toyou Like magnets pulled towards
each other, right, that kind ofattraction.
And so that's there.
And if you hold hope becausethat's there, of course that
makes sense.
However, that kind of hope is,in fact, different than holding
hope because you have seenthings in yourself, in your
(19:03):
partner, in your relationship,that lead you to being able to
hold that belief of saying, likeyou know what things have been
hard and I'm seeing effort, I'mseeing curiosity, I'm seeing
something happening, and Imentioned this in the last
episode about looking at yourpartner's willingness.
It can be hard to determinebecause sometimes you're not
literally seeing the progressthat's happening in yourself or
(19:25):
in your partner and I refer tomicroscopic progress that so
much growth and healing happensin these teeny, tiny ways.
And in polyvagal theory theyactually talk about micro
moments and how our nervoussystem grows and stretches
through these tiny, little, minimicro moments of a new
experience.
And so those little microscopicchange moments can sometimes be
(19:46):
invisible to the naked eyeuntil many of them happen, and
then you can actually observethem.
So, again, it's a trickyphenomenon and it takes being
able to self-regulate, which isdefinitely not always easy to do
, in order to be able to be in aplace where connection is even
possible, because when we're ina survival mode, connection is
not possible.
When we're angry and frustratedand in that sympathetic fight
(20:10):
or flight place which also againcould include like let me just
get out of this relationship,forget about my partner, it's
not worth it or if we're in thatdorsal shutdown, collapsed,
hopeless place, we feel like wecould just give up on our
relationship.
Connection is not actuallyavailable to us in those states,
because our only goal is tosurvive and connecting,
especially if what is availableto connect to seems like a
(20:31):
threat.
Right, but even if your partneris in a loving place, if you're
in a sympathetic or dorsalplace, if your nervous system is
in a survival state, you arestill likely to interpret your
partner as a threat.
And the reverse is true.
If your partner is in asurvival state, even if you're
coming at them with kindness andlove, they are looking through
I've talked about thosedepression goggles, fight or
flight goggles.
They're seeing you through thelens of their nervous system
(20:54):
state and they are likely toperceive you as a threat, and so
, again, this contributes tomore conflict and more
questioning of should I even bein this relationship?
Even when I try, and I come tomy partner with love, they don't
react well.
And so there's a lot here, andthis is why I started this
podcast because I've learned anawful lot through my
relationship challenges, and Ireally want to share it with you
, because I myself have alwaysknown that I love my husband and
(21:16):
I've always been very clearthat he has felt like he loves
me.
And yet we have had so muchhardship over the years and I
figured out some things thathave been really helpful to me,
and that's why I'm sharing themwith you.
I do want to just say two morethings, and one is specifically
about depression and how thatstuckness, that collapse, being
emotionally withdrawn andfeeling like connection is
(21:39):
hopeless.
It's not even an option.
Option it's not available toyou can really get in the way of
a partner doing their work and,again, if they're so stuck so
much of the time they'reunavailable for you and then
you're not in a relationshipwith them right, and that's what
it can feel like they'reunreachable, you can't connect
with them, they're not there foryou.
If that's happening a lot ofthe time, then maybe it does
make sense to end therelationship.
(22:00):
That's really a very individualdecision.
It's also possible that theydon't understand what's
happening for them.
There's so much what I wouldcall sort of misinformation or
maybe misleading informationabout depression that there's a
lot of message abouthopelessness and that either you
have to be on medication forthe rest of your life, which for
some people might be true, butit might not be true for
everybody and it's also notalways the only option for
(22:22):
people.
There's also so much shame andit can feel so horrible to want
to feel better and not know thepath there.
It is not your responsibility,for you to help your partner
find their path to wellness.
But if you're in a place whereit still makes sense for you to
be in your relationship, thereare potentially ways to support
your partner in them being ableto have space to figure out what
(22:43):
they need.
So it's not you figuring outwhat they need, but there are
ways to support creating thatenvironment where growth and
healing is possible, which Iwill talk about more at other
times.
I just wanted to really saythat someone being depressed can
really get in the way of themdoing the work, or you seeing
them doing the work, which doesnot mean that there's not
actually a willingnessunderneath, that they might very
(23:03):
much want to do the work, butthey might just feel powerless
to do it.
So again, there's a lot toconsider there.
And then the last thing I justwant to mention before I wrap up
for today is that I talk a lotabout consulting a therapist as
you're going through this, or awellness practitioner or a
healer or a trusted friend, andI just want to highlight how
important it is to choosesomebody who is going to
(23:26):
actually support your process intrying to figure out if you
want to stay in a relationshipor if you want to end it, and if
you choose to stay, whatoptions are available to you?
Because it can be really easyto go to a friend or a family
member and vent and complainabout your relationship and they
may just get right on boardwith you.
And, similarly, having thethought of like, oh, I want to
(23:47):
get divorced, sometimes that cangive you a momentary sense of
relief.
Venting to a friend might giveyou a cue of safety.
I feel heard, I feel listenedto, I feel understood, I feel
validated, and that can feelreally good.
But it can also be detrimentalto the relationship because then
you know, you might be reallyfired up and more angry than
when you started theconversation, or maybe you walk
out feeling even more hopelessthan when you started the
(24:10):
conversation and neither ofthose will support growth your
own growth or the relationship'sgrowth.
And I remember actually, when,shortly after my husband and I
got separated, I found somethingsomewhere I honestly don't
remember where it was, but itwas something that said
something to the effect of nevertalk badly about your partner
to anyone ever.
And I was like, oh no, likegosh, I have definitely made
(24:33):
some missteps here.
I've vented to a lot of peopleabout my husband and it actually
felt almost impossible for meto think about not doing that,
like well, what should I do then?
Do I just not tell anybody?
Do I just not talk to anybodyabout how difficult this
relationship is?
But it also resonated with meand I understood.
And if you can't talk to yourpartner, if communication
directly with your partner isnot available at the moment,
(24:54):
getting support and often thatmight be couples therapy or
couples workshops that I run,which is what we talk about how
to communicate effectively withyour partner those are the
skills that we share so get somesupport in being able to talk
to your partner directly so thatyou can problem solve within
the relationship.
But if that's not available yet, choose people like a therapist
or somebody who can kind ofremain neutral and be a
(25:16):
container for you to process,not that you're venting and
complaining, but that you'rereally sharing your own
experience.
You're thinking about whatcould be helpful in the
relationship for yourself.
What does deep self-care anddeep self-love look like, and
somebody who won't fuel yourfire or support your
hopelessness, which is tricky,but they definitely exist out
(25:36):
there.
So I hope that these takeawaysthat I have learned over the
last two decades feel helpful toyou in some way.
I would love to hear about whatyou connected with and I look
forward to sharing more aboutthis really difficult and
important topic with you in thenext few episodes.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
(25:58):
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
(26:18):
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
(26:40):
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest, or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
(27:00):
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today ispossible for everyone, including
you, and even when depressionis in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
(27:22):
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com