Caught in the mental tug-of-war between staying in your relationship or finally walking away? When depression complicates an already difficult decision, finding clarity can feel impossible. Drawing from both professional expertise as an Imago Relationship Therapist and deeply personal experience navigating a 20-year relationship affected by depression, Trish Sanders offers a transformative framework for making conscious relationship choices.
This episode introduces seven powerful questions designed to help you move beyond indecision and into clarity. You'll discover how to identify the obstacles keeping you stuck, recognize unconscious patterns from your past that might be influencing your choices, and assess both your willingness and your partner's willingness to do the necessary relationship work. Trish compassionately guides you to examine relationship strengths that might still exist beneath the struggle, while also honoring what your body and nervous system are telling you about what path forward feels right.
The framework isn't about finding an easy answer or placing blame. Instead, it's about developing the awareness needed to make decisions that honor both yourself and your relationship's reality. Whether depression is affecting you, your partner, or your relationship dynamic as a whole, these questions provide a roadmap for navigating one of life's most challenging crossroads with intention and self-compassion.
No matter where you are in your decision-making process—just beginning to question or already leaning toward a choice—this episode offers valuable perspective on how to approach relationship decisions with greater consciousness. Subscribe to the podcast for weekly insights on navigating relationships when depression is in your bed.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Have you been stuck in a mentaltug of war, going back and
forth between the decision tostay in your current
relationship or finally leave?
If this hits home for you,please know that you are not
alone.
I have been there before and Iknow that this inner battle can
be absolutely exhausting.
(00:22):
It's a major life decision andI totally understand that you
don't want to take it lightly,so I have come up with seven
questions to support you inmaking a conscious decision for
whether it makes more sense foryou to stay in your current
relationship or if it makes moresense for you to go.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I look forward to sharing
today's episode with you.
Let's get started.
(00:43):
In the last episode, I talkedabout the early days of my
relationship with my now husband, then boyfriend Ben, and I
referred to this period of ourrelationship as our love story.
As an Imago relationshiptherapist myself, I would also
call that the romantic lovephase of our relationship, in
which we felt connected andengaged and joyfully alive and
(01:05):
passionate, and it was just anabsolutely delicious and really
enjoyable, wonderful time in ourrelationship.
I also talked in the lastepisode about how, within just a
few short months, thingsshifted very drastically and in
Imago theory we would say thatBen and I entered the power
struggle and there was a lotmore tension, a lot more
disconnection, dissatisfactionwith the relationship, and
(01:28):
things were sort of generallyjust much more unpleasant
compared to the romantic lovephase.
Now, imago theory does say thatthe vast majority of couples go
through a romantic love phaseand it is eventually followed by
a power struggle, so in thatrespect we are not unique as far
as relationships go.
However, ben and I did continueto go back and forth between
(01:51):
what were usually shorterperiods of that connected
romantic love phase and whatwere usually much longer chunks
of time in that tense,disconnected power struggle, and
I don't know if that made usunique exactly, but I do know
that depression was frequentlypresent in our relationship and
it definitely contributed tothis dynamic and, as a result,
(02:14):
we have had a very challengingrelationship for much of the
last 20 years, and certainlygiven that there have been times
when I was in a place ofquestioning whether or not I
wanted to continue in therelationship I had with Ben, and
since I have had so muchexperience in this area,
thinking if I wanted to stay ina relationship or not, and what
(02:34):
it meant to make a consciousdecision around that.
I came up with some questionsthat I think are helpful in
being able to make such a bigdecision in a conscious way.
So today I wanted to sharethese seven questions that I
created, and I invite you to askyourself if you are considering
if you want to stay in yourcurrent relationship or if you
(02:56):
want to end it.
I will say that anybody inrelationship can certainly get
to a point where they might beconsidering a breakup or
separation or a divorce, andthese questions are not
exclusive to relationships inwhich depression is being
experienced by one or bothpartners.
But I will focus on some pointsthat may be more relevant to
those affected by depression,and the reason for this is
(03:19):
because when you're living withdepression in your relationship,
it is possible that thestruggles that you might be
facing may be more severe.
They may be more persistent ormore frequent than when compared
to relationships wheredepression is not present, or at
least not as present as much ofthe time, and this can really
add a level of challenge forsomeone trying to decide whether
(03:42):
they wanna stay in therelationship or not, and they
also may get contradictoryadvice, whether it's solicited
or not, from people they trustfriends, family members, even a
therapist.
Some people might insist thatyou end the relationship, saying
that you deserve better or youdeserve something more or you've
tried hard enough, and otherpeople, for their own reasons,
(04:04):
might encourage you to hang inthere or saying things like.
All relationships take work,and so it might be very
difficult or confusing whentrying to decide what you should
do.
But in truth, only you know howmuch work it makes sense for
you to do, how much effort itmakes sense for you to put in
and how long it makes sense foryou to continue in a
(04:27):
relationship, especially if it'staking a while for you to see
some positive changes from allthe work that you're putting in.
So, to help you gain as muchawareness as possible and as
much clarity as you can aboutwhat really makes sense to you,
I will share these sevenquestions for you to ponder and
think about for yourself.
So, just so you know what toexpect.
(04:47):
These questions are notmultiple choice type, and you
won't get an absolute,definitive answer by the end as
to whether or not you should getseparated or end your
relationship.
It won't be like if youanswered a lot of A's, then that
means you should stay in therelationship, or if you answered
a lot of C's, you should endthe relationship.
These are really things for youto think about, for you to
(05:09):
increase your level of awarenessthat you have about yourself
and your relationship and yourpartner.
And these questions are also notintended to measure how good or
bad your relationship is,because the truth is is that if
depression is in yourrelationship and you're thinking
about whether you should endthe relationship or not, there
probably are pretty significantthings that are going on right
(05:29):
now that don't feel very good toyou, and you already know what
those things are and that theyexist.
And the truth is is that, evenif a relationship measured as
being very quote-unquote bad orbeing very high conflict even
the big conflicts that cansometimes come when depression
is involved is not necessarilythe problem, because conflict
exists in all relationships.
(05:51):
It's totally inevitable.
Whenever you have two people,at some point there's going to
be some sort of conflict.
So, as I said, the purpose ofmy questions is really to help
you develop that consciousawareness about why you're in
this relationship and also todetermine as best as you can if
this is a relationship in whichyou can really grow through.
(06:11):
Like I said, conflict isinevitable, and in Imago theory
we say conflict is growth tryingto happen.
So from my perspective, whendeciding to continue in a
relationship, it's important totry to figure out if the
relationship can be anenvironment in which growth is
possible.
So today I'm gonna go throughthe questions and then in the
next few episodes I will talk inmore detail about things to
(06:35):
consider, things that might behelpful to think about as you
process the questions foryourself, and I will also share
my own experience of answeringthese questions over the years
and how they led me to continueto choose to stay in my
relationship.
Although you may have a verydifferent experience when
thinking about the questions,and that's okay.
If these questions lead you todecide that ending your
relationship is what makes senseto you, then they have done
(06:58):
their job, because you figuredout what makes sense to you,
even if it's something differentthan what made sense to me,
because we're two differentpeople and we have two different
relationships.
So the first question that Iinvite you to ask yourself is
what are the real or perceivedobstacles that come to your mind
when you think about leavingthe relationship, and then I
(07:18):
would invite you to think aboutwhat ways you can find to
address these obstacles.
So this is for somebody who maybe leaning towards ending your
relationship, but you have somethings in the way that feel like
insurmountable barriers so thatyou can't leave, and I want to
help you begin to notice andname these things and begin to
(07:39):
create a shift so you can movefrom seeing these as
insurmountable barriers toseeing them more as things that
you have to figure out or workthrough, and that you're capable
of doing that.
So the way I think about thisis to complete this sentence I
would consider ending myrelationship, but I can't
because dot, dot, dot.
And you might answer somethinglike I can't end my relationship
(08:01):
because there's financialconstraints, or I can't leave my
relationship because it wouldhave a negative impact on my
child or my children, or I can'tleave because I've already
invested so much time in thisrelationship, or I can't leave
this relationship because it'sbetter than nothing and I don't
want to have to go through beingsingle again.
So these are some commonanswers to this question, and
some of them are definitelythoughts that I've had myself,
(08:24):
and again, I'll dive into moredetail about that in future
episodes, but for today, I willlook at how we can take one of
the things I mentioned and beginto think about how it could be
addressed in such a way thatthere would be a shift away from
seeing it as this completebarrier that blocks our path of
choosing to end a relationship,so that we can really see it as
(08:46):
something that we're able towork through.
So, just for the sake oftalking it through, I'll think
about finances, which is verycommon when people think about
ending a relationship.
So you might start to thinkabout how to manage your
finances in a different way.
You might make a budget, youmight look for ways to help
increase your income or look athow you could reduce expenses or
(09:07):
consider temporary options likemoving in with a family member
or reducing the number ofactivities your child
participates in, and you canstart to look at where things
stand now.
And if it feels impossible inthis moment to end your
relationship today, you canstart to think about what you
can shift so that ending yourrelationship might be more
(09:27):
accessible in the next sixmonths or in the next year, or
even two years or beyond, andthe point of this question is to
help you shift from seeingsomething as insurmountable like
a total no-go and to be able tosee the challenges in front of
you for what they are, somethingthat you may have to figure out
and grow through.
It might take some time, butit's so important to allow space
(09:52):
to create this shift, becauseyou'll be able to explore things
in such a way that it increasesthe amount of awareness you
have of the choices that areactually available to you.
Feeling trapped and powerless inrelationship not only feels
completely awful, but it alsousually keeps us stuck in our
survival mode, and then weusually act in ways that are
(10:15):
really unhelpful to therelationship.
So not only do we feel like wecan't get out of it, but we're
also not able to contribute tothe relationship in a helpful
way.
So when we start consideringthe choices that we really do
have, it can really help us tostay regulated and be able to
maintain the clarity that weneed in order to creatively
problem solve or figure outthings that we can do, and
(10:36):
whether we end up using thatproblem solving for how to get
through these obstacles thatfeel like they're getting in the
way of us choosing to end arelationship, or whether we are
able to actually gain clarity onthings that we can do to
support our relationship.
We can stay in it in a way thatfeels good.
It's really a win-win.
So helping you to feel thatsense of choice and see that you
(10:58):
do have options available isreally important.
And one last thing that I willmention here that may be
significant for those who mightbe considering separating from a
partner who is struggling withdepression.
I have to say that it is notunusual for a person to feel
like they can't end arelationship because they fear
or worry that their partner maydo something such as self-harm
(11:20):
or even attempt suicide if theyleave, and they can't imagine
that, if something like thatwere to happen, the amount of
guilt that they would have.
And so sometimes they choose tostay in a relationship, and I
will definitely address thisfurther.
It deserves more time than I'mgoing to give it now, but just
for today I want to say thatshifting this experience may
take some deep work and sometime.
(11:41):
I also want to say that no oneadult person can ever be
responsible for another adultperson's life, and sacrificing
your own wellness in hopes thatyou can support your partner's
well-being is likely to end uphaving a negative impact on your
relationship in the long termand even possibly in the short
term, and so, even though theseare very, very challenging
(12:02):
things to figure out how to workthrough, it's really really
very important.
So, if this feels like anobstacle to you about ending
your relationship, I reallywould strongly encourage you to
get some support around this,and I also want to say that the
purpose of naming theseobstacles whether they are real
or perceived meaning that maybethey really are something that
(12:24):
is going to get in the way, or,in actuality, they wouldn't get
in the way, but at this moment,you're perceiving that they
would.
So, either way, the purpose ofnaming these is to be able to
start to figure out a way to goaround them or through them, as
opposed to allowing them tototally block the choice that
you have in relationship,because, of course, ending a
relationship is always a choice,and if there's things that are
(12:44):
getting in your way, it's reallyimportant to address them.
So the second question that Iinvite you to ask yourself is
what are the unconscious factorsat play that may be keeping you
in your relationship?
And, again, how do you getsupport to work through those
and even to identify what thoseare.
And when I say unconsciousfactors, I am talking about
things that you may or may notbe aware of.
(13:05):
Being that they're unconscious,they usually start as something
that we're not aware of, but aswe do more self-work, they may
come into our conscious mind.
But, regardless whether you'reaware of them or not, they are
powerful forces and they'reoften determining factors in our
behavior, and they're alsoconnected to our past
experiences, so they come fromwhat was imprinted on us as we
(13:26):
were growing up.
So, in regards to you being in arelationship in which
depression is present, I reallyinvite you to think about your
early life and the relationshipsthat you had with your early
caregivers.
Perhaps that's mom and dad,perhaps it's other people in
your life, and the relationshipsthat those caregivers had with
each other.
Did you experience anyone asdisconnected or withdrawn or
(13:48):
shut down or numbed out, evensome of the time?
It doesn't have to be all thetime, but did you have
experiences like that?
Did you witness experienceslike that?
Because those experiences,particularly with our early
caregivers, become part of ourdefinition of what familiar love
looks like and feels like.
So, in your conscious mind.
In your current relationship youmight be thinking, oh, my
(14:09):
partner is so frustrating, I'mnot happy, my needs are never
met, they don't listen to me, Idon't want to be in this
relationship anymore.
But something in yourunconscious may be sending you a
different message that somehowkeeps you tethered to this
relationship that your consciousmind feels like maybe it
doesn't want to be in anymore.
And these unconscious factorsmay be telling you that this
(14:31):
kind of relationship is familiarto you.
And when something is familiarto us, it has a sense of safety
around it, even if it's nothealthy or actually something
that our conscious mind wants.
And this familiarity can reallyfeel like home and it can be
really hard to separate fromthat, even if you consciously
want to.
Another unconscious factor thatmay be common when it comes to
(14:54):
initiating a breakup or divorceis that some people hold a
message that if they end therelationship, they've failed in
some way, and this can be verymuch connected to the messages
that they receive from theirfamily, their culture, their
society.
It can be a powerful obstaclethat keeps someone really stuck
in a relationship.
So if that resonates for you,then I would really encourage
(15:14):
you to talk to a therapist orsomeone who can really help you
work through that.
And lastly, another thought thatmight arise when considering
whether to end a relationship ornot is the thought that you
don't want to be a bad personfor being the one to end a
relationship.
And this may be a consciousthought and it often has roots
in the unconscious that I won'tgo into in any detail right now
(15:36):
and it also can apply generallyto anybody thinking about ending
a relationship.
But if you have a partner who'sdepressed, it can really take
on a different level or adifferent meaning, because a
person might really start toquestion if they're a bad person
or if it's mean even to end arelationship with somebody who's
depressed.
It's like, is it okay to kicksomebody when they're down, sort
of feeling.
And the short answer is thatyou are not mean or bad for
(15:59):
wanting to end your relationshipif it's not meeting your needs
and if it doesn't feel good tobe in.
It is not mean or bad to notwant to sacrifice your own
well-being.
The longer answer that I won'tgo into the whole complete
answer is to say that staying ina relationship for this reason
is really not conducive tocreating a better relationship.
(16:21):
So if you're just stayingbecause you feel like you should
, or you don't want to be mean,or you don't want to be the one
to blame for ending therelationship.
I really encourage you again toget some support around these
factors so you can make aclearer decision about whether
you really truly want to stay inthe relationship or not.
Now, if you're the person in therelationship living with
depression, or if both you andyour partner are living with
(16:43):
depression, I think it's reallyhelpful to acknowledge how our
nervous system is related to ourlived experience.
So what I mean is theinterpretations that we make
about ourself or ourrelationship or our partner.
It's all connected to the stateour nervous system is in.
So if we're feeling depressedand we're in that dorsal,
disconnected, collapse state,that shutdown state, we also may
(17:04):
have really negativeinterpretations of ourselves,
like we're unworthy orundeserving or unlovable, and we
might be interpreting ourrelationship as being hopeless
or our partner as not caringabout us, and so there's a lot
going on here that may feelconscious, because it might be
thoughts that are in your headand that would make you have a
certain level of awareness aboutthose.
But to really understand wherethat's coming from and kind of
(17:25):
going deeper into the nervoussystem.
Experience and where that'srooted from is really quite
important, and so, again, Irecommend getting some support
here to process through that andany things that come up around
it.
The third question I invite youto ask yourself is are you
willing to do the work ofrelationship?
In Imago Relationship Therapy,we look at how each partner is
(17:48):
contributing to the nightmare ofthe relationship.
That's one of the phrases weuse contributing to the
nightmare.
And doing your work meanslooking at how you contribute to
the nightmare.
If your partner is the one whois identified as being depressed
, it can be very easy to focuson them, to place the blame on
them, to say that all therelationship troubles are
(18:08):
because of them, to say they'rethe problem, and there certainly
might be some truth to thatperspective, because both
partners are in fact somehowcontributing to the nightmare.
But a very important shift tobe able to make is to begin
looking at ourselves.
Continuing to blame yourpartner gives them all the power
and if they're not at a placewhere they're able to change at
(18:29):
the moment, or they're not ableto change in the way that you'd
like them to change or in thetimeframe you'd like them to
change in, then the relationshiphas no other choice but to feel
bad and then you and yourpartner are likely to stay stuck
.
But if you look at yourself,you can actually really become
empowered and you may start tonotice that there are places
that you might be able to shiftand change.
That will help yourself andhelp even improve things in the
(18:50):
relationship.
Now I will say that sometimespeople understandably have a
hard time with this because itcan feel like the responsibility
for taking care of therelationship is on their
shoulders and that they're theonly one.
Whoever does the work, theresponsibility for making the
change is all theirs.
And I certainly understand thatand you may have to process
through that because it'stotally valid.
(19:11):
And at the same time, what I'mtalking about is really moving
to a place of empoweringyourself to say, hey, you know
what?
If I'm in this relationship,what can I do to grow and heal
myself and this relationship?
Because I can't control mypartner and where my partner is
at or what my partner chooses todo.
So I will share some things inmy experience which can be
(19:32):
immensely helpful when you thinkabout doing your own work.
I would say one of the mosthelpful things that I've ever
done and I highly encourageeveryone to do it.
I think it's our humanresponsibility actually to do
this, but to look at how you canregulate yourself more, how you
can get to a more grounded,connected place, because from
that place you'll better be ableto take care of yourself and
(19:52):
you'll better be able to respondto conflicts in your
relationship.
And self-regulation can go avery long way towards improving
things in your life and in yourrelationship and focusing on
yourself and how to supportyourself and being more okay,
essentially less in survivalmode, regardless of what's
happening in the relationship,which, admittedly, can be
(20:12):
difficult.
It can allow you to have moreclarity on how you respond and
what you choose to do, and thisapproach can also really help
you gain clarity on whether youwanna continue in the
relationship or not.
Another important way to thinkabout what you can do in your
own work is how can youcommunicate with your partner in
a way that's more helpful, moreeffective?
Perhaps you're either notcommunicating at all because you
(20:35):
think that your partner won'trespond well, or they're not in
a good place and you don't wantto put more on their plate, and
if this lack of communication ishappening, you're probably
likely at some point if notimmediately but eventually to
start building your ownresentment, which really can be
debilitating for therelationship.
On the flip side, you may havetried to communicate, perhaps
many, many times, but it justdoesn't seem to land well a lot
(20:58):
of the time.
Or perhaps because of yourfrustration, your approach has
become increasingly aggressiveor even desperate as you try to
express your needs because youreally want your partner to be
able to respond well so you canaddress things and you can save
the relationship.
And so either way ofcommunicating can be really
unhelpful and they're bothreally survival ways.
(21:20):
One is sort of like shut down,not communicating at all, and
one is really reaching out,really kind of being in a place
of something needs to happen,because that feeling around,
that demanding you might not bedemanding yourself, but it might
land as demanding for yourpartner, which tends to awaken
survival and reactivity in yourpartner.
They both tend to be unhelpfuland I really do think that
(21:41):
figuring out how to communicateeffectively is an art form, but
it's really worth it.
And so, in line with that ideaof being demanding, someone
might threaten divorce in hopesthat their partner will sort of
be like scared into changing ordoing something differently, or
they might not say anything inhopes that their partner will
eventually change on their own.
(22:01):
And neither of these are reallyrecommended approaches, though
I have absolutely done both ofthese and from that place of
experience I can tell you thatthey're really not effective.
A potentially more helpful wayof communicating might sound
like.
I really love you and I reallywant this relationship to work,
and it's also really hard for mea lot of the time and I'm
(22:23):
experiencing a lot of pain inthis relationship and I'm just
not quite sure what else to do.
But I want to talk with youbecause I really hope that we
can work on things together andwhat I'm longing for is to be
able to make things better, andI want to try to have the chance
to figure it out with you Now.
Of course, there's no guaranteethat your partner especially if
they're depressed, by the waywill respond well to this in
(22:44):
real time, and it may take avery great deal of
self-regulation on your part tobe able to even come to your
partner in this way, especiallyif you have been dealing with a
lot of frustrations andchallenges and conflicts for a
while.
But the likelihood of yougetting a positive response is
better.
So, after thinking about ifyou're willing to do your own
work, it makes sense thatquestion four would be is your
(23:05):
partner willing to do their workfor the relationship, and
especially if they're dealingwith depression?
I would also ask if they'rewilling to do their own
individual work, which, in turn,supports the relationship as
well.
Now, this can be very tricky,because your partner may be
willing to do their own work, orthey may be actually doing
their own work, but they may notbe doing what you think they
(23:27):
should be doing, or they may notbe working as fast as you would
hope that they would be working.
The progress may seem slow, andbeing depressed does, in fact,
complicate this, because it isvery easy to get stuck in
depression, even when you don'twant to be stuck in it, and
moving out of it can, in fact,take a long time.
So when you think about thequestion, is my partner willing
(23:48):
to do the work of relationship?
I do invite you to think aboutthem when they're in a less
depressed state or when you feelmore connected to them, and you
can talk about some of thesethings in a more helpful way,
where you kind of really seemore into what they really want
and how they really feel.
So in those kind of moments, dothey express hope for things to
be different for themselves andfor their life and for the
(24:09):
relationship?
Do they express a willingnessto try to figure out how to do
something different?
Are they able to take steps,even if they're seemingly small
and slow?
Are there times when youexpress your needs and they are
able to respond in a way thatmakes you feel heard?
And is there a desire for somesort of change, even if they
don't know how to make thechange actually happen?
Is there a curiosity there likewhat can be done?
(24:31):
Also, it's important to lookover the time of your
relationship.
Has there been some work done?
It might be seemingly small,but has your partner been able
to do some relationship work andhave you seen some improvement?
Again, even if it's small, Ioften refer to what I call
microscopic progress in therelationship.
So, again, this can be tough toassess accurately, but getting
a sense of your partner'swillingness and desire to do
(24:53):
their part in the relationshipis really quite important.
And, as I stated earlier,conflict is inevitable.
It's actually necessary forgrowth to happen, so it's not a
problem that conflicts occur.
So it's not a problem thatconflicts occur.
The problem really happens orbegins to show up when one or
both partners aren't able toaddress the conflict in a way
that they can grow and learnthrough them.
So please keep this in mindRelational and communication
(25:15):
skills usually need to be taught, and our parents and
grandparents may not have taughtus because nobody taught them.
This is not a parent orgrandparent bashing thing.
It's kind of just the way itworks.
We just didn't know how to talkabout things as a society or
that mental health was actuallyimportant.
So the question really becomesabout your partner's willingness
and curiosity to figure out howto do things in a different way
(25:37):
from what we grew up doing orwhat we grew up witnessing.
And when someone is depressed,they may not feel a willingness
or curiosity in that moment, butwhen they become more regulated
, you may see somethingdifferent start to emerge, and
sometimes that is just where thework can begin.
And if you don't ever have thisexperience with your partner,
where you can see theircuriosity or willingness, that
(25:58):
can certainly be very telling.
The fifth question that I inviteyou to think about for yourself
is what are the strengths ofyour relationship.
Now, this question is differentfrom what are you getting from
the relationship, because theanswer to that might involve
things like financial support,or it might be connected to some
unconscious factors like youfeel needed in the relationship.
(26:19):
Or you may answer that youdon't feel like you're getting
very much at all from therelationship, which may not be a
surprise, especially ifdepression shows up regularly
for you and your partner.
Asking what are the strengthsof your relationship is also
different than asking if yourneeds are getting met in this
relationship, because, again,while I try not to make
assumptions, if depression ispresent and you're considering
(26:42):
ending your relationship, it islikely that at least some of
your needs are not getting met.
So I'm not even asking thatquestion here.
I'm inviting you to think aboutthe strengths of your
relationship.
What are the things that drewyou to your partner, into this
relationship?
What led you to choose tocommit to this person?
What are the things that helpyou feel connected to them or,
(27:03):
in the past, have helped youfeel connected to this person
and caused you to invest timeand energy and effort into them?
And it's really important tothink about this, and it also
could be potentially sad tothink about this because you
might be thinking well, I usedto enjoy things and I used to be
able to talk about thestrengths of my relationship and
we used to have a greatrelationship, but things have
changed so much since then, andso if you haven't experienced
(27:28):
each other in a positive way ina long time and it brings up
some sadness, that's okay.
I invite you to think about itas much or as long as you're
able to, and pay attention towhat still exists and may be
there that maybe you're notnoticing, especially if
depression is present in therelationship, because it is
really easy to pay attention towhat's painful and we often
(27:48):
forget to look for the thingsthat are positive.
And considering why we're inthis relationship, why we got
into it in the first place, whywe're even entertaining the idea
of staying in a relationshipthat may be really difficult, is
very helpful to think about.
So I will also tell you that Ihave heard people say that they
do not want to think about.
So I will also tell you that Ihave heard people say that they
do not want to think about thepositives that exist in the
(28:09):
relationship, because it canmake the decision to end the
relationship harder.
And if this is true for you,perhaps you are already well
into your decision makingprocess, and if you feel
significant resistance tothinking about the positive
aspects of your relationship, Iwould honor that.
And if you, at a different time, want to explore it and you
feel moved to do so, then youcertainly can.
(28:30):
But I don't want you to feellike you have to think about
this.
If there's something in yoursystem telling you, don't go
there.
The sixth question that I inviteyou to ask yourself is can you
deeply love and care foryourself and continue to be in
this relationship?
The answer here can provide youwith incredibly valuable
(28:51):
information about what youreally need to do next, and I
don't mean to say that if yousay no, I can't love and care
for myself and still be in thisrelationship, then that means
that you should absolutely endthe relationship.
What I actually mean is that,if you realize that you're not
able to deeply love and care foryourself while you're in this
relationship, what really needsto happen next or, at the very
(29:11):
least, what you need to reallystart thinking about is how to
prioritize your own needs, andmaybe even figuring out what it
means to deeply love and carefor yourself, and if that's
where you're at today, thatyou're not even sure what that
means for you, that is totallyall right.
It's really importantinformation to have because it
indicates that it may be time tostart thinking about that and
(29:33):
stretching into that space andknowing what it means to take
care of yourself in that way.
And this can truly take sometime.
But from my own personalexperience, I would have to say
that no matter how much time oreffort it takes for you to grow
into this, it is well worth it,because, let me tell you, it is
not in any way selfish to takecare of yourself.
(29:54):
In order to move beyond justmaking it through the day, just
getting by, it is necessary Tomove from a place of surviving
to a place of thriving.
It is absolutely required.
Starting with deep love andself-care will cause a ripple
effect in your life and you mayfind a way to grow through your
partnership and you may findclarity on knowing that it's
(30:16):
time to end it.
But either way, you will havepaid attention to the most
important relationship you havein your life, which is the one
you have with yourself.
And there's this amazing quoteby Prentice Hemphill that, I
think, really encompasses thisconcept in just such a beautiful
way, and the quote isboundaries are the distance at
which I can love you and mesimultaneously, and I just
(30:40):
absolutely love this, becausethere's a lot of information on
boundaries out there and, in myopinion, the information can
sometimes be a little misleadingor confusing or rigid.
But this quote really sums upthe mutually beneficial need for
boundaries in a relationshipthat both partners need to be
able to have space to lovethemselves and each other, and
(31:01):
it gives some insight on theimpact of healthy boundaries
that when you have healthy,flexible boundaries that
consider your needs and yourpartner's, then both of you can
experience love, being loved andreceiving love at the same time
.
It's incredible.
Part of the reason I love it somuch is because I do think that
there is an idea out there thatreal love means some sort of
sacrifice, and I myself haveheld that perspective for many
(31:23):
years, and so I invite you toreally think about this question
and make a decision about whatworks for you and how you can
move towards greater self-loveand deep self-care.
The last question I will inviteyou to ask yourself is to ask
what do you feel in your body,in your system when you think
about ending the relationship,and what do you feel in your
body and in your system when youthink about staying in the
(31:44):
relationship Now?
You may already have a practice.
You feel in your body and inyour system when you think about
staying in the relationship Now.
You may already have a practiceof tuning into your body and
your nervous system, or this maybe new to you and either way,
that is totally all right.
I invite you to try this out.
It is so important to tune intoour body experience because we
get so much valuable informationfrom our systems and we're
often taught to ignore what'shappening in our body and what
(32:06):
our body is communicating to us.
What our nervous system iscommunicating to us is vitally
important.
So when you ask yourself thesequestions, when you think about
leaving the relationship, maybeyou notice your chest feels
tight and you can just noticethat.
Or maybe, when you think aboutleaving the relationship, you
may feel some openness orperhaps some relief or some
release, and you can be aware ofany meanings or interpretations
(32:29):
like oh, I feel tight, thatmust mean that I'm scared to
leave the relationship.
Or, oh, I feel openness, I feelsome release.
That means I really should getout of this relationship and you
can just notice theinterpretations.
You don't have to say thatthey're right or wrong or
accurate or anything.
Right now it's really just abouttapping in and noticing your
body experience and what'shappening in your system.
Do you have sort of a sense ofmoving towards your partner?
(32:50):
Do you have a sense of movingaway from your partner?
Do you feel against, like sortof like you're feeling
aggressive energy coming towardsyou and you kind of want to
fight against it?
Do you feel a bit detached inyour system when you think about
your relationship?
And so just to start to noticethese different experiences that
you may have, and then you canstart to notice these different
experiences that you may have,and then you can start to notice
what does your body feel likewhen you're in a conflict with
your partner?
What does it feel like whenyou're not around your partner
(33:11):
at all, like when they're atwork, in your home or something
like that?
What does it feel like whenyou're hanging out with your
friends or family members?
Is there a difference in yourbody experience?
What's coming up in your systemThen?
In polyvagal terms, we would saythat this is a process of
beginning to befriend yournervous system and to really
start to work with it.
Our bodies and nervous systemstruly know what we need, what
(33:31):
helps us to feel grounded andregulated, what feels safe, what
feels like safe connection andwhat helps us move towards safe
connection, and, if we startlistening and tuning in, our
system can really truly helpguide us in lovely and powerful
ways.
So these are the sevenquestions that I have for you,
and, after you spend some timesitting with these questions,
(33:52):
allowing whatever answers thereare to emerge, I want to say
that if you feel like you stilldon't know if you should end
your relationship or not, that'sokay.
I told you you may not have anabsolutely definitive answer
after processing these questions, and if you haven't made a
decision to leave, then I reallyinvite you to perhaps consider
yourself as having made adecision to stay, even if it's
(34:15):
by default right now and thisdoesn't mean that you have made
a decision to stay forever.
You can certainly decide toleave at any time if that's what
makes sense to you, butdeciding in this way sort of
deciding to decide can reallyhelp support focusing your
energy on taking care ofyourself, getting the support
you need and figuring out whatyour next steps are, instead of
(34:35):
keeping yourself stuck inindecision Because being stuck
in a decision really can beparalyzing.
And if you can say, hey look,I've decided to decide right now
, I'm staying in therelationship you can actually
use that energy to continue todo work that brings more
consciousness, more awareness,more clarity.
And regardless of whether youultimately decide to end the
relationship you're in orcontinue in it, things do often
(34:58):
get harder in some ways beforethey start to feel better.
I think it's Robert Frost whosaid that the only way out is
through, and I think that thatis often true in life and
relationships.
We do have to go through thehard stuff in order to get past
it, to get to that betterfeeling place.
So, whatever you choose to dowith your relationship, any path
(35:18):
will take some amount of worksome of the time, and I hope
that in thinking through thesequestions, you did get some more
insight about what kind of workmakes sense for you to do.
And just in case you need thereminder today, let me just say
that you are absolutelydeserving of a healthy,
connected, loving relationshipthat is filled with passion and
(35:43):
joyful aliveness, that feelssafe and supportive, and just
right for you.
I hope that after listening tothis episode, you have some new
information to help you make themost conscious decision that
you can for yourself today, adecision that supports how you
want to feel, who you truly areand the relationship that you
(36:03):
want to have.
In summary, here is a list ofthe seven questions I reviewed
in today's episode.
Number one what are the real orperceived obstacles that come
to your mind when you thinkabout leaving the relationship
and can you find a way toaddress these obstacles?
Two what are the unconsciousfactors at play that may be
(36:23):
keeping you in your relationship?
And, again, how can you getsupport to work through those?
Three are you willing to do thework of relationship?
Four is your partner willing todo the work of relationship?
Five what are the strengths ofyour relationship?
Six can you deeply love andcare for yourself and continue
(36:44):
to be in this relationship?
Seven what do you feel in yourbody, in your system, when you
think about ending therelationship, and what do you
feel in your body when you thinkabout staying in the
relationship?
I said it throughout the episode, but as you sit with these
questions and answers start toemerge, I do recommend finding a
(37:06):
trusted person, a friend, afamily member, a therapist, a
wellness practitioner, a healeror someone that you can truly
confide in to help you processand support you on this journey.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
(37:28):
hit stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
(37:50):
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step you visualizetaking in your mind.
(38:12):
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today, ispossible for everyone, including
(38:33):
you, and even when depressionis in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
(38:53):
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Have you been stuck in a mentaltug of war, going back and
forth between the decision tostay in your current
relationship or finally leave?
If this hits home for you,please know that you are not
alone.
I have been there before and Iknow that this inner battle can
be absolutely exhausting.
(00:22):
It's a major life decision andI totally understand that you
don't want to take it lightly,so I have come up with seven
questions to support you inmaking a conscious decision for
whether it makes more sense foryou to stay in your current
relationship or if it makes moresense for you to go.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I look forward to sharing
today's episode with you.
Let's get started.
(00:43):
In the last episode, I talkedabout the early days of my
relationship with my now husband, then boyfriend Ben, and I
referred to this period of ourrelationship as our love story.
As an Imago relationshiptherapist myself, I would also
call that the romantic lovephase of our relationship, in
which we felt connected andengaged and joyfully alive and
(01:05):
passionate, and it was just anabsolutely delicious and really
enjoyable, wonderful time in ourrelationship.
I also talked in the lastepisode about how, within just a
few short months, thingsshifted very drastically and in
Imago theory we would say thatBen and I entered the power
struggle and there was a lotmore tension, a lot more
disconnection, dissatisfactionwith the relationship, and
(01:28):
things were sort of generallyjust much more unpleasant
compared to the romantic lovephase.
Now, imago theory does say thatthe vast majority of couples go
through a romantic love phaseand it is eventually followed by
a power struggle, so in thatrespect we are not unique as far
as relationships go.
However, ben and I did continueto go back and forth between
(01:51):
what were usually shorterperiods of that connected
romantic love phase and whatwere usually much longer chunks
of time in that tense,disconnected power struggle, and
I don't know if that made usunique exactly, but I do know
that depression was frequentlypresent in our relationship and
it definitely contributed tothis dynamic and, as a result,
(02:14):
we have had a very challengingrelationship for much of the
last 20 years, and certainlygiven that there have been times
when I was in a place ofquestioning whether or not I
wanted to continue in therelationship I had with Ben, and
since I have had so muchexperience in this area,
thinking if I wanted to stay ina relationship or not, and what
(02:34):
it meant to make a consciousdecision around that.
I came up with some questionsthat I think are helpful in
being able to make such a bigdecision in a conscious way.
So today I wanted to sharethese seven questions that I
created, and I invite you to askyourself if you are considering
if you want to stay in yourcurrent relationship or if you
(02:56):
want to end it.
I will say that anybody inrelationship can certainly get
to a point where they might beconsidering a breakup or
separation or a divorce, andthese questions are not
exclusive to relationships inwhich depression is being
experienced by one or bothpartners.
But I will focus on some pointsthat may be more relevant to
those affected by depression,and the reason for this is
(03:19):
because when you're living withdepression in your relationship,
it is possible that thestruggles that you might be
facing may be more severe.
They may be more persistent ormore frequent than when compared
to relationships wheredepression is not present, or at
least not as present as much ofthe time, and this can really
add a level of challenge forsomeone trying to decide whether
(03:42):
they wanna stay in therelationship or not, and they
also may get contradictoryadvice, whether it's solicited
or not, from people they trustfriends, family members, even a
therapist.
Some people might insist thatyou end the relationship, saying
that you deserve better or youdeserve something more or you've
tried hard enough, and otherpeople, for their own reasons,
(04:04):
might encourage you to hang inthere or saying things like.
All relationships take work,and so it might be very
difficult or confusing whentrying to decide what you should
do.
But in truth, only you know howmuch work it makes sense for
you to do, how much effort itmakes sense for you to put in
and how long it makes sense foryou to continue in a
(04:27):
relationship, especially if it'staking a while for you to see
some positive changes from allthe work that you're putting in.
So, to help you gain as muchawareness as possible and as
much clarity as you can aboutwhat really makes sense to you,
I will share these sevenquestions for you to ponder and
think about for yourself.
So, just so you know what toexpect.
(04:47):
These questions are notmultiple choice type, and you
won't get an absolute,definitive answer by the end as
to whether or not you should getseparated or end your
relationship.
It won't be like if youanswered a lot of A's, then that
means you should stay in therelationship, or if you answered
a lot of C's, you should endthe relationship.
These are really things for youto think about, for you to
(05:09):
increase your level of awarenessthat you have about yourself
and your relationship and yourpartner.
And these questions are also notintended to measure how good or
bad your relationship is,because the truth is is that if
depression is in yourrelationship and you're thinking
about whether you should endthe relationship or not, there
probably are pretty significantthings that are going on right
(05:29):
now that don't feel very good toyou, and you already know what
those things are and that theyexist.
And the truth is is that, evenif a relationship measured as
being very quote-unquote bad orbeing very high conflict even
the big conflicts that cansometimes come when depression
is involved is not necessarilythe problem, because conflict
exists in all relationships.
(05:51):
It's totally inevitable.
Whenever you have two people,at some point there's going to
be some sort of conflict.
So, as I said, the purpose ofmy questions is really to help
you develop that consciousawareness about why you're in
this relationship and also todetermine as best as you can if
this is a relationship in whichyou can really grow through.
(06:11):
Like I said, conflict isinevitable, and in Imago theory
we say conflict is growth tryingto happen.
So from my perspective, whendeciding to continue in a
relationship, it's important totry to figure out if the
relationship can be anenvironment in which growth is
possible.
So today I'm gonna go throughthe questions and then in the
next few episodes I will talk inmore detail about things to
(06:35):
consider, things that might behelpful to think about as you
process the questions foryourself, and I will also share
my own experience of answeringthese questions over the years
and how they led me to continueto choose to stay in my
relationship.
Although you may have a verydifferent experience when
thinking about the questions,and that's okay.
If these questions lead you todecide that ending your
relationship is what makes senseto you, then they have done
(06:58):
their job, because you figuredout what makes sense to you,
even if it's something differentthan what made sense to me,
because we're two differentpeople and we have two different
relationships.
So the first question that Iinvite you to ask yourself is
what are the real or perceivedobstacles that come to your mind
when you think about leavingthe relationship, and then I
(07:18):
would invite you to think aboutwhat ways you can find to
address these obstacles.
So this is for somebody who maybe leaning towards ending your
relationship, but you have somethings in the way that feel like
insurmountable barriers so thatyou can't leave, and I want to
help you begin to notice andname these things and begin to
(07:39):
create a shift so you can movefrom seeing these as
insurmountable barriers toseeing them more as things that
you have to figure out or workthrough, and that you're capable
of doing that.
So the way I think about thisis to complete this sentence I
would consider ending myrelationship, but I can't
because dot, dot, dot.
And you might answer somethinglike I can't end my relationship
(08:01):
because there's financialconstraints, or I can't leave my
relationship because it wouldhave a negative impact on my
child or my children, or I can'tleave because I've already
invested so much time in thisrelationship, or I can't leave
this relationship because it'sbetter than nothing and I don't
want to have to go through beingsingle again.
So these are some commonanswers to this question, and
some of them are definitelythoughts that I've had myself,
(08:24):
and again, I'll dive into moredetail about that in future
episodes, but for today, I willlook at how we can take one of
the things I mentioned and beginto think about how it could be
addressed in such a way thatthere would be a shift away from
seeing it as this completebarrier that blocks our path of
choosing to end a relationship,so that we can really see it as
(08:46):
something that we're able towork through.
So, just for the sake oftalking it through, I'll think
about finances, which is verycommon when people think about
ending a relationship.
So you might start to thinkabout how to manage your
finances in a different way.
You might make a budget, youmight look for ways to help
increase your income or look athow you could reduce expenses or
(09:07):
consider temporary options likemoving in with a family member
or reducing the number ofactivities your child
participates in, and you canstart to look at where things
stand now.
And if it feels impossible inthis moment to end your
relationship today, you canstart to think about what you
can shift so that ending yourrelationship might be more
(09:27):
accessible in the next sixmonths or in the next year, or
even two years or beyond, andthe point of this question is to
help you shift from seeingsomething as insurmountable like
a total no-go and to be able tosee the challenges in front of
you for what they are, somethingthat you may have to figure out
and grow through.
It might take some time, butit's so important to allow space
(09:52):
to create this shift, becauseyou'll be able to explore things
in such a way that it increasesthe amount of awareness you
have of the choices that areactually available to you.
Feeling trapped and powerless inrelationship not only feels
completely awful, but it alsousually keeps us stuck in our
survival mode, and then weusually act in ways that are
(10:15):
really unhelpful to therelationship.
So not only do we feel like wecan't get out of it, but we're
also not able to contribute tothe relationship in a helpful
way.
So when we start consideringthe choices that we really do
have, it can really help us tostay regulated and be able to
maintain the clarity that weneed in order to creatively
problem solve or figure outthings that we can do, and
(10:36):
whether we end up using thatproblem solving for how to get
through these obstacles thatfeel like they're getting in the
way of us choosing to end arelationship, or whether we are
able to actually gain clarity onthings that we can do to
support our relationship.
We can stay in it in a way thatfeels good.
It's really a win-win.
So helping you to feel thatsense of choice and see that you
(10:58):
do have options available isreally important.
And one last thing that I willmention here that may be
significant for those who mightbe considering separating from a
partner who is struggling withdepression.
I have to say that it is notunusual for a person to feel
like they can't end arelationship because they fear
or worry that their partner maydo something such as self-harm
(11:20):
or even attempt suicide if theyleave, and they can't imagine
that, if something like thatwere to happen, the amount of
guilt that they would have.
And so sometimes they choose tostay in a relationship, and I
will definitely address thisfurther.
It deserves more time than I'mgoing to give it now, but just
for today I want to say thatshifting this experience may
take some deep work and sometime.
(11:41):
I also want to say that no oneadult person can ever be
responsible for another adultperson's life, and sacrificing
your own wellness in hopes thatyou can support your partner's
well-being is likely to end uphaving a negative impact on your
relationship in the long termand even possibly in the short
term, and so, even though theseare very, very challenging
(12:02):
things to figure out how to workthrough, it's really really
very important.
So, if this feels like anobstacle to you about ending
your relationship, I reallywould strongly encourage you to
get some support around this,and I also want to say that the
purpose of naming theseobstacles whether they are real
or perceived meaning that maybethey really are something that
(12:24):
is going to get in the way, or,in actuality, they wouldn't get
in the way, but at this moment,you're perceiving that they
would.
So, either way, the purpose ofnaming these is to be able to
start to figure out a way to goaround them or through them, as
opposed to allowing them tototally block the choice that
you have in relationship,because, of course, ending a
relationship is always a choice,and if there's things that are
(12:44):
getting in your way, it's reallyimportant to address them.
So the second question that Iinvite you to ask yourself is
what are the unconscious factorsat play that may be keeping you
in your relationship?
And, again, how do you getsupport to work through those
and even to identify what thoseare.
And when I say unconsciousfactors, I am talking about
things that you may or may notbe aware of.
(13:05):
Being that they're unconscious,they usually start as something
that we're not aware of, but aswe do more self-work, they may
come into our conscious mind.
But, regardless whether you'reaware of them or not, they are
powerful forces and they'reoften determining factors in our
behavior, and they're alsoconnected to our past
experiences, so they come fromwhat was imprinted on us as we
(13:26):
were growing up.
So, in regards to you being in arelationship in which
depression is present, I reallyinvite you to think about your
early life and the relationshipsthat you had with your early
caregivers.
Perhaps that's mom and dad,perhaps it's other people in
your life, and the relationshipsthat those caregivers had with
each other.
Did you experience anyone asdisconnected or withdrawn or
(13:48):
shut down or numbed out, evensome of the time?
It doesn't have to be all thetime, but did you have
experiences like that?
Did you witness experienceslike that?
Because those experiences,particularly with our early
caregivers, become part of ourdefinition of what familiar love
looks like and feels like.
So, in your conscious mind.
In your current relationship youmight be thinking, oh, my
(14:09):
partner is so frustrating, I'mnot happy, my needs are never
met, they don't listen to me, Idon't want to be in this
relationship anymore.
But something in yourunconscious may be sending you a
different message that somehowkeeps you tethered to this
relationship that your consciousmind feels like maybe it
doesn't want to be in anymore.
And these unconscious factorsmay be telling you that this
(14:31):
kind of relationship is familiarto you.
And when something is familiarto us, it has a sense of safety
around it, even if it's nothealthy or actually something
that our conscious mind wants.
And this familiarity can reallyfeel like home and it can be
really hard to separate fromthat, even if you consciously
want to.
Another unconscious factor thatmay be common when it comes to
(14:54):
initiating a breakup or divorceis that some people hold a
message that if they end therelationship, they've failed in
some way, and this can be verymuch connected to the messages
that they receive from theirfamily, their culture, their
society.
It can be a powerful obstaclethat keeps someone really stuck
in a relationship.
So if that resonates for you,then I would really encourage
(15:14):
you to talk to a therapist orsomeone who can really help you
work through that.
And lastly, another thought thatmight arise when considering
whether to end a relationship ornot is the thought that you
don't want to be a bad personfor being the one to end a
relationship.
And this may be a consciousthought and it often has roots
in the unconscious that I won'tgo into in any detail right now
(15:36):
and it also can apply generallyto anybody thinking about ending
a relationship.
But if you have a partner who'sdepressed, it can really take
on a different level or adifferent meaning, because a
person might really start toquestion if they're a bad person
or if it's mean even to end arelationship with somebody who's
depressed.
It's like, is it okay to kicksomebody when they're down, sort
of feeling.
And the short answer is thatyou are not mean or bad for
(15:59):
wanting to end your relationshipif it's not meeting your needs
and if it doesn't feel good tobe in.
It is not mean or bad to notwant to sacrifice your own
well-being.
The longer answer that I won'tgo into the whole complete
answer is to say that staying ina relationship for this reason
is really not conducive tocreating a better relationship.
(16:21):
So if you're just stayingbecause you feel like you should
, or you don't want to be mean,or you don't want to be the one
to blame for ending therelationship.
I really encourage you again toget some support around these
factors so you can make aclearer decision about whether
you really truly want to stay inthe relationship or not.
Now, if you're the person in therelationship living with
depression, or if both you andyour partner are living with
(16:43):
depression, I think it's reallyhelpful to acknowledge how our
nervous system is related to ourlived experience.
So what I mean is theinterpretations that we make
about ourself or ourrelationship or our partner.
It's all connected to the stateour nervous system is in.
So if we're feeling depressedand we're in that dorsal,
disconnected, collapse state,that shutdown state, we also may
(17:04):
have really negativeinterpretations of ourselves,
like we're unworthy orundeserving or unlovable, and we
might be interpreting ourrelationship as being hopeless
or our partner as not caringabout us, and so there's a lot
going on here that may feelconscious, because it might be
thoughts that are in your headand that would make you have a
certain level of awareness aboutthose.
But to really understand wherethat's coming from and kind of
(17:25):
going deeper into the nervoussystem.
Experience and where that'srooted from is really quite
important, and so, again, Irecommend getting some support
here to process through that andany things that come up around
it.
The third question I invite youto ask yourself is are you
willing to do the work ofrelationship?
In Imago Relationship Therapy,we look at how each partner is
(17:48):
contributing to the nightmare ofthe relationship.
That's one of the phrases weuse contributing to the
nightmare.
And doing your work meanslooking at how you contribute to
the nightmare.
If your partner is the one whois identified as being depressed
, it can be very easy to focuson them, to place the blame on
them, to say that all therelationship troubles are
(18:08):
because of them, to say they'rethe problem, and there certainly
might be some truth to thatperspective, because both
partners are in fact somehowcontributing to the nightmare.
But a very important shift tobe able to make is to begin
looking at ourselves.
Continuing to blame yourpartner gives them all the power
and if they're not at a placewhere they're able to change at
(18:29):
the moment, or they're not ableto change in the way that you'd
like them to change or in thetimeframe you'd like them to
change in, then the relationshiphas no other choice but to feel
bad and then you and yourpartner are likely to stay stuck
.
But if you look at yourself,you can actually really become
empowered and you may start tonotice that there are places
that you might be able to shiftand change.
That will help yourself andhelp even improve things in the
(18:50):
relationship.
Now I will say that sometimespeople understandably have a
hard time with this because itcan feel like the responsibility
for taking care of therelationship is on their
shoulders and that they're theonly one.
Whoever does the work, theresponsibility for making the
change is all theirs.
And I certainly understand thatand you may have to process
through that because it'stotally valid.
(19:11):
And at the same time, what I'mtalking about is really moving
to a place of empoweringyourself to say, hey, you know
what?
If I'm in this relationship,what can I do to grow and heal
myself and this relationship?
Because I can't control mypartner and where my partner is
at or what my partner chooses todo.
So I will share some things inmy experience which can be
(19:32):
immensely helpful when you thinkabout doing your own work.
I would say one of the mosthelpful things that I've ever
done and I highly encourageeveryone to do it.
I think it's our humanresponsibility actually to do
this, but to look at how you canregulate yourself more, how you
can get to a more grounded,connected place, because from
that place you'll better be ableto take care of yourself and
(19:52):
you'll better be able to respondto conflicts in your
relationship.
And self-regulation can go avery long way towards improving
things in your life and in yourrelationship and focusing on
yourself and how to supportyourself and being more okay,
essentially less in survivalmode, regardless of what's
happening in the relationship,which, admittedly, can be
(20:12):
difficult.
It can allow you to have moreclarity on how you respond and
what you choose to do, and thisapproach can also really help
you gain clarity on whether youwanna continue in the
relationship or not.
Another important way to thinkabout what you can do in your
own work is how can youcommunicate with your partner in
a way that's more helpful, moreeffective?
Perhaps you're either notcommunicating at all because you
(20:35):
think that your partner won'trespond well, or they're not in
a good place and you don't wantto put more on their plate, and
if this lack of communication ishappening, you're probably
likely at some point if notimmediately but eventually to
start building your ownresentment, which really can be
debilitating for therelationship.
On the flip side, you may havetried to communicate, perhaps
many, many times, but it justdoesn't seem to land well a lot
(20:58):
of the time.
Or perhaps because of yourfrustration, your approach has
become increasingly aggressiveor even desperate as you try to
express your needs because youreally want your partner to be
able to respond well so you canaddress things and you can save
the relationship.
And so either way ofcommunicating can be really
unhelpful and they're bothreally survival ways.
(21:20):
One is sort of like shut down,not communicating at all, and
one is really reaching out,really kind of being in a place
of something needs to happen,because that feeling around,
that demanding you might not bedemanding yourself, but it might
land as demanding for yourpartner, which tends to awaken
survival and reactivity in yourpartner.
They both tend to be unhelpfuland I really do think that
(21:41):
figuring out how to communicateeffectively is an art form, but
it's really worth it.
And so, in line with that ideaof being demanding, someone
might threaten divorce in hopesthat their partner will sort of
be like scared into changing ordoing something differently, or
they might not say anything inhopes that their partner will
eventually change on their own.
(22:01):
And neither of these are reallyrecommended approaches, though
I have absolutely done both ofthese and from that place of
experience I can tell you thatthey're really not effective.
A potentially more helpful wayof communicating might sound
like.
I really love you and I reallywant this relationship to work,
and it's also really hard for mea lot of the time and I'm
(22:23):
experiencing a lot of pain inthis relationship and I'm just
not quite sure what else to do.
But I want to talk with youbecause I really hope that we
can work on things together andwhat I'm longing for is to be
able to make things better, andI want to try to have the chance
to figure it out with you Now.
Of course, there's no guaranteethat your partner especially if
they're depressed, by the waywill respond well to this in
(22:44):
real time, and it may take avery great deal of
self-regulation on your part tobe able to even come to your
partner in this way, especiallyif you have been dealing with a
lot of frustrations andchallenges and conflicts for a
while.
But the likelihood of yougetting a positive response is
better.
So, after thinking about ifyou're willing to do your own
work, it makes sense thatquestion four would be is your
(23:05):
partner willing to do their workfor the relationship, and
especially if they're dealingwith depression?
I would also ask if they'rewilling to do their own
individual work, which, in turn,supports the relationship as
well.
Now, this can be very tricky,because your partner may be
willing to do their own work, orthey may be actually doing
their own work, but they may notbe doing what you think they
(23:27):
should be doing, or they may notbe working as fast as you would
hope that they would be working.
The progress may seem slow, andbeing depressed does, in fact,
complicate this, because it isvery easy to get stuck in
depression, even when you don'twant to be stuck in it, and
moving out of it can, in fact,take a long time.
So when you think about thequestion, is my partner willing
(23:48):
to do the work of relationship?
I do invite you to think aboutthem when they're in a less
depressed state or when you feelmore connected to them, and you
can talk about some of thesethings in a more helpful way,
where you kind of really seemore into what they really want
and how they really feel.
So in those kind of moments, dothey express hope for things to
be different for themselves andfor their life and for the
(24:09):
relationship?
Do they express a willingnessto try to figure out how to do
something different?
Are they able to take steps,even if they're seemingly small
and slow?
Are there times when youexpress your needs and they are
able to respond in a way thatmakes you feel heard?
And is there a desire for somesort of change, even if they
don't know how to make thechange actually happen?
Is there a curiosity there likewhat can be done?
(24:31):
Also, it's important to lookover the time of your
relationship.
Has there been some work done?
It might be seemingly small,but has your partner been able
to do some relationship work andhave you seen some improvement?
Again, even if it's small, Ioften refer to what I call
microscopic progress in therelationship.
So, again, this can be tough toassess accurately, but getting
a sense of your partner'swillingness and desire to do
(24:53):
their part in the relationshipis really quite important.
And, as I stated earlier,conflict is inevitable.
It's actually necessary forgrowth to happen, so it's not a
problem that conflicts occur.
So it's not a problem thatconflicts occur.
The problem really happens orbegins to show up when one or
both partners aren't able toaddress the conflict in a way
that they can grow and learnthrough them.
So please keep this in mindRelational and communication
(25:15):
skills usually need to be taught, and our parents and
grandparents may not have taughtus because nobody taught them.
This is not a parent orgrandparent bashing thing.
It's kind of just the way itworks.
We just didn't know how to talkabout things as a society or
that mental health was actuallyimportant.
So the question really becomesabout your partner's willingness
and curiosity to figure out howto do things in a different way
(25:37):
from what we grew up doing orwhat we grew up witnessing.
And when someone is depressed,they may not feel a willingness
or curiosity in that moment, butwhen they become more regulated
, you may see somethingdifferent start to emerge, and
sometimes that is just where thework can begin.
And if you don't ever have thisexperience with your partner,
where you can see theircuriosity or willingness, that
(25:58):
can certainly be very telling.
The fifth question that I inviteyou to think about for yourself
is what are the strengths ofyour relationship.
Now, this question is differentfrom what are you getting from
the relationship, because theanswer to that might involve
things like financial support,or it might be connected to some
unconscious factors like youfeel needed in the relationship.
(26:19):
Or you may answer that youdon't feel like you're getting
very much at all from therelationship, which may not be a
surprise, especially ifdepression shows up regularly
for you and your partner.
Asking what are the strengthsof your relationship is also
different than asking if yourneeds are getting met in this
relationship, because, again,while I try not to make
assumptions, if depression ispresent and you're considering
(26:42):
ending your relationship, it islikely that at least some of
your needs are not getting met.
So I'm not even asking thatquestion here.
I'm inviting you to think aboutthe strengths of your
relationship.
What are the things that drewyou to your partner, into this
relationship?
What led you to choose tocommit to this person?
What are the things that helpyou feel connected to them or,
(27:03):
in the past, have helped youfeel connected to this person
and caused you to invest timeand energy and effort into them?
And it's really important tothink about this, and it also
could be potentially sad tothink about this because you
might be thinking well, I usedto enjoy things and I used to be
able to talk about thestrengths of my relationship and
we used to have a greatrelationship, but things have
changed so much since then, andso if you haven't experienced
(27:28):
each other in a positive way ina long time and it brings up
some sadness, that's okay.
I invite you to think about itas much or as long as you're
able to, and pay attention towhat still exists and may be
there that maybe you're notnoticing, especially if
depression is present in therelationship, because it is
really easy to pay attention towhat's painful and we often
(27:48):
forget to look for the thingsthat are positive.
And considering why we're inthis relationship, why we got
into it in the first place, whywe're even entertaining the idea
of staying in a relationshipthat may be really difficult, is
very helpful to think about.
So I will also tell you that Ihave heard people say that they
do not want to think about.
So I will also tell you that Ihave heard people say that they
do not want to think about thepositives that exist in the
(28:09):
relationship, because it canmake the decision to end the
relationship harder.
And if this is true for you,perhaps you are already well
into your decision makingprocess, and if you feel
significant resistance tothinking about the positive
aspects of your relationship, Iwould honor that.
And if you, at a different time, want to explore it and you
feel moved to do so, then youcertainly can.
(28:30):
But I don't want you to feellike you have to think about
this.
If there's something in yoursystem telling you, don't go
there.
The sixth question that I inviteyou to ask yourself is can you
deeply love and care foryourself and continue to be in
this relationship?
The answer here can provide youwith incredibly valuable
(28:51):
information about what youreally need to do next, and I
don't mean to say that if yousay no, I can't love and care
for myself and still be in thisrelationship, then that means
that you should absolutely endthe relationship.
What I actually mean is that,if you realize that you're not
able to deeply love and care foryourself while you're in this
relationship, what really needsto happen next or, at the very
(29:11):
least, what you need to reallystart thinking about is how to
prioritize your own needs, andmaybe even figuring out what it
means to deeply love and carefor yourself, and if that's
where you're at today, thatyou're not even sure what that
means for you, that is totallyall right.
It's really importantinformation to have because it
indicates that it may be time tostart thinking about that and
(29:33):
stretching into that space andknowing what it means to take
care of yourself in that way.
And this can truly take sometime.
But from my own personalexperience, I would have to say
that no matter how much time oreffort it takes for you to grow
into this, it is well worth it,because, let me tell you, it is
not in any way selfish to takecare of yourself.
(29:54):
In order to move beyond justmaking it through the day, just
getting by, it is necessary Tomove from a place of surviving
to a place of thriving.
It is absolutely required.
Starting with deep love andself-care will cause a ripple
effect in your life and you mayfind a way to grow through your
partnership and you may findclarity on knowing that it's
(30:16):
time to end it.
But either way, you will havepaid attention to the most
important relationship you havein your life, which is the one
you have with yourself.
And there's this amazing quoteby Prentice Hemphill that, I
think, really encompasses thisconcept in just such a beautiful
way, and the quote isboundaries are the distance at
which I can love you and mesimultaneously, and I just
(30:40):
absolutely love this, becausethere's a lot of information on
boundaries out there and, in myopinion, the information can
sometimes be a little misleadingor confusing or rigid.
But this quote really sums upthe mutually beneficial need for
boundaries in a relationshipthat both partners need to be
able to have space to lovethemselves and each other, and
(31:01):
it gives some insight on theimpact of healthy boundaries
that when you have healthy,flexible boundaries that
consider your needs and yourpartner's, then both of you can
experience love, being loved andreceiving love at the same time
.
It's incredible.
Part of the reason I love it somuch is because I do think that
there is an idea out there thatreal love means some sort of
sacrifice, and I myself haveheld that perspective for many
(31:23):
years, and so I invite you toreally think about this question
and make a decision about whatworks for you and how you can
move towards greater self-loveand deep self-care.
The last question I will inviteyou to ask yourself is to ask
what do you feel in your body,in your system when you think
about ending the relationship,and what do you feel in your
body and in your system when youthink about staying in the
(31:44):
relationship Now?
You may already have a practice.
You feel in your body and inyour system when you think about
staying in the relationship Now.
You may already have a practiceof tuning into your body and
your nervous system, or this maybe new to you and either way,
that is totally all right.
I invite you to try this out.
It is so important to tune intoour body experience because we
get so much valuable informationfrom our systems and we're
often taught to ignore what'shappening in our body and what
(32:06):
our body is communicating to us.
What our nervous system iscommunicating to us is vitally
important.
So when you ask yourself thesequestions, when you think about
leaving the relationship, maybeyou notice your chest feels
tight and you can just noticethat.
Or maybe, when you think aboutleaving the relationship, you
may feel some openness orperhaps some relief or some
release, and you can be aware ofany meanings or interpretations
(32:29):
like oh, I feel tight, thatmust mean that I'm scared to
leave the relationship.
Or, oh, I feel openness, I feelsome release.
That means I really should getout of this relationship and you
can just notice theinterpretations.
You don't have to say thatthey're right or wrong or
accurate or anything.
Right now it's really just abouttapping in and noticing your
body experience and what'shappening in your system.
Do you have sort of a sense ofmoving towards your partner?
(32:50):
Do you have a sense of movingaway from your partner?
Do you feel against, like sortof like you're feeling
aggressive energy coming towardsyou and you kind of want to
fight against it?
Do you feel a bit detached inyour system when you think about
your relationship?
And so just to start to noticethese different experiences that
you may have, and then you canstart to notice these different
experiences that you may have,and then you can start to notice
what does your body feel likewhen you're in a conflict with
your partner?
What does it feel like whenyou're not around your partner
(33:11):
at all, like when they're atwork, in your home or something
like that?
What does it feel like whenyou're hanging out with your
friends or family members?
Is there a difference in yourbody experience?
What's coming up in your systemThen?
In polyvagal terms, we would saythat this is a process of
beginning to befriend yournervous system and to really
start to work with it.
Our bodies and nervous systemstruly know what we need, what
(33:31):
helps us to feel grounded andregulated, what feels safe, what
feels like safe connection andwhat helps us move towards safe
connection, and, if we startlistening and tuning in, our
system can really truly helpguide us in lovely and powerful
ways.
So these are the sevenquestions that I have for you,
and, after you spend some timesitting with these questions,
(33:52):
allowing whatever answers thereare to emerge, I want to say
that if you feel like you stilldon't know if you should end
your relationship or not, that'sokay.
I told you you may not have anabsolutely definitive answer
after processing these questions, and if you haven't made a
decision to leave, then I reallyinvite you to perhaps consider
yourself as having made adecision to stay, even if it's
(34:15):
by default right now and thisdoesn't mean that you have made
a decision to stay forever.
You can certainly decide toleave at any time if that's what
makes sense to you, butdeciding in this way sort of
deciding to decide can reallyhelp support focusing your
energy on taking care ofyourself, getting the support
you need and figuring out whatyour next steps are, instead of
(34:35):
keeping yourself stuck inindecision Because being stuck
in a decision really can beparalyzing.
And if you can say, hey look,I've decided to decide right now
, I'm staying in therelationship you can actually
use that energy to continue todo work that brings more
consciousness, more awareness,more clarity.
And regardless of whether youultimately decide to end the
relationship you're in orcontinue in it, things do often
(34:58):
get harder in some ways beforethey start to feel better.
I think it's Robert Frost whosaid that the only way out is
through, and I think that thatis often true in life and
relationships.
We do have to go through thehard stuff in order to get past
it, to get to that betterfeeling place.
So, whatever you choose to dowith your relationship, any path
(35:18):
will take some amount of worksome of the time, and I hope
that in thinking through thesequestions, you did get some more
insight about what kind of workmakes sense for you to do.
And just in case you need thereminder today, let me just say
that you are absolutelydeserving of a healthy,
connected, loving relationshipthat is filled with passion and
(35:43):
joyful aliveness, that feelssafe and supportive, and just
right for you.
I hope that after listening tothis episode, you have some new
information to help you make themost conscious decision that
you can for yourself today, adecision that supports how you
want to feel, who you truly areand the relationship that you
(36:03):
want to have.
In summary, here is a list ofthe seven questions I reviewed
in today's episode.
Number one what are the real orperceived obstacles that come
to your mind when you thinkabout leaving the relationship
and can you find a way toaddress these obstacles?
Two what are the unconsciousfactors at play that may be
(36:23):
keeping you in your relationship?
And, again, how can you getsupport to work through those?
Three are you willing to do thework of relationship?
Four is your partner willing todo the work of relationship?
Five what are the strengths ofyour relationship?
Six can you deeply love andcare for yourself and continue
(36:44):
to be in this relationship?
Seven what do you feel in yourbody, in your system, when you
think about ending therelationship, and what do you
feel in your body when you thinkabout staying in the
relationship?
I said it throughout the episode, but as you sit with these
questions and answers start toemerge, I do recommend finding a
(37:06):
trusted person, a friend, afamily member, a therapist, a
wellness practitioner, a healeror someone that you can truly
confide in to help you processand support you on this journey.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
(37:28):
hit stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
(37:50):
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step you visualizetaking in your mind.
(38:12):
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday, because getting to a
place that feels better, morejoyful, more connected than the
place where you are today, ispossible for everyone, including
(38:33):
you, and even when depressionis in your bed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
(38:53):
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
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