July 16, 2025 • 29 mins
Discover the relationship-transforming power of "staying out of your stories" - a skill that can fundamentally change how you navigate conflicts with your partner. This episode reveals how our nervous systems create automatic narratives during tense moments that feel absolutely true but often lead us astray.
When conflict emerges, our brains instantly attach meaning to what's happening, creating stories that feel justified and accurate. But these narratives are heavily influenced by our current nervous system state, past experiences, and limited information. By recognizing when you're deep in these stories without either believing them fully or trying to suppress them, you create space for genuine understanding.
Through a candid personal example about a near-disastrous anniversary celebration, Trish shares how this technique saved what could have become a day-ruining argument. You'll learn how thoughts like "we're going to end up divorced" or "they never listen" are actually signals of dysregulation rather than reality - like objects in a side-view mirror that "may be less accurate than they appear."
This approach doesn't ask you to invalidate your feelings or thoughts. Instead, it invites you to recognize them as products of your nervous system's protective response while creating space for regulation. Once regulated, entirely new possibilities for connection and resolution become available that simply can't be accessed when consumed by reactive narratives.
Whether dealing with communication breakdowns, parenting disagreements, or recurring arguments, this practical skill opens doors to the conscious partnership you desire. Ready to transform conflicts into opportunities for deeper understanding? This episode offers a roadmap to getting there, one regulated conversation at a time.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you interested in learningone of the most helpful
relationship skills that can beused in just about any conflict
you may have with your partner?
Would you like to see how usingthis transformative technique
can help you and your partnerfind solutions that had
previously been totallyinvisible?
If you're ready to grow intohaving a conscious partnership
(00:22):
in which you can make choicesthat can truly transform your
relationship into what youdesire and deserve, join me
today.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am delighted that you are
here.
Let's get started.
I am so excited for thisepisode today because I will be
sharing a skill that I have beenusing really only in this exact
way, or at least thinking aboutit in this particular conscious
(00:44):
way, for the last couple ofyears, but it has been one of
the most helpful and mosttransformative tools that I have
used in my own personalrelationship, and I think I have
been using this skill for many,many years actually, but the
way I've come to think about itand therefore how I've been able
to consciously choose to use it, has shifted.
(01:05):
So I'm so excited to be talkingwith you about this today,
because you, too, may already beusing this skill, and if you
start to think about what you'redoing and really what's
underlying the experience, itwill have an even greater impact
on your relationship and itwill go that much further in
actually creating transformationin your relationship.
So, without further ado, I'mgoing to start talking about
(01:27):
what I refer to, or what I thinkabout, as staying out of your
stories.
I talked about it in the lastepisode and I talked about it
specific to the dynamic of thedisappointed and the
disappointment in relationshipand some of the common stories
that can come up in that dynamic.
So if you're interested inhearing more about that, then
definitely tune into the lastepisode.
But today I'm going to talkabout staying out of your
(01:48):
stories in a more broad senseand how to use this tool in a
conscious way.
And I talk about consciousrelationships and I've talked
about it before.
But just a quick recap for todaybeing in a conscious
partnership, or being aconscious partner, means that
you have a level of awarenessabout what you're choosing to do
.
So when something happens, whenyou're in a conflict with your
partner, you look at theconflict, what is happening for
(02:10):
you, what your needs are, whatstate your nervous system is in
and also looking at your partnerand what their needs are and
what their nervous system stateis, and then kind of assessing
the whole thing and saying whatis the most helpful action right
now.
That really supports me beingin alignment with who I am and
also contributing to anenvironment in which the
(02:30):
relationship I want can bepossible and where I have the
best chance of getting my needsmet in a good enough way and my
partner also has the best chanceof getting their needs met in a
good enough way.
So this doesn't mean you'reguaranteed that all of your
needs and all of your partner'sneeds are going to be met
exactly the way you want them tobe and in the time frame that
you want them to be met.
(02:51):
It doesn't work quite like that, but it is really paving the
path towards the relationshipthat you want to have, because
many of us certainly myself forvery many years, as much as I
tried to be conscious many of usare living very unconsciously
and what's really guiding ourdecisions is actually our
survival techniques, what welearned in childhood, how we
(03:12):
emotionally protected ourselves,and it's really wonderful that
our nervous system and our brainhas these automatic techniques
because it does in fact help uswhen we're kids, when we're not
developed cognitively andemotionally and psychologically
and physically and we don't haveall of these options and we
don't also have a lot of poweras kids either.
And so it's great that we havethese techniques that help us in
(03:32):
our childhood.
But what we automatically do tohelp us get through, get by
when we're young, we often carrywith us into our adult life and
we react in our adult life andin our adult relationship from
that same unconscious place,that self-protective, automatic
reaction, becoming consciousmoves, being reactive to being
responsive.
(03:52):
So the idea of staying out ofstories is a way of being
responsive, a way to respond toa situation in a way that
actually helps things get better.
So what do I mean when I talkabout staying out of the stories
?
What happens in all of us isthat our nervous system actually
receives a cue, a cue of dangeror a cue of safety.
Probably many cues of safetyand many cues of danger actually
(04:13):
are present in different ways,all the time actually.
But our nervous system receivescues from the environment, from
our own internal body, what'shappening inside of us and also
between nervous systems, oranother way of saying, that is,
in relationships, so betweenyour nervous system and your
partner's nervous system or anyother nervous systems that are
around you actually, and yournervous system is always
(04:34):
assessing these cues Is this acue of danger, is this a cue of
safety?
And its job is to figure thatout and when the cues of danger
outweigh the cues of safetypresent.
It's not a numbers thing likeyou have to have more cues of
safety, but they actually haveto be weightier, and so
sometimes the scales shift andour nervous system determines
(04:54):
that our cues of danger areoutweighing our cues of safety
that are present in any givenmoment, and when that happens,
it sends a message right out toour brain and it says danger,
danger.
We need to protect ourselves.
And thank goodness this happensbecause in a life or death
situation or in a physicalthreat situation, these
processes happen extremelyquickly, and it's excellent that
we have the ability to reactand we jump into our fight or
(05:18):
flight survival mode.
Or we go into our freezeresponse, our shutdown response,
or we go into our freezeresponse.
Our shutdown response, ourfight or flight response, is our
sympathetic response, and thatfreeze collapse, withdraw, is
when our nervous system is inour dorsal state.
This all happens so veryquickly, and it also happens
below thought.
It's not unconscious, it'snon-conscious, it doesn't
involve our thinking brain atall.
(05:40):
It is our sensory bodyexperience and what our nervous
system is receiving.
And so all of this gets sent upto the brain.
And then our brain loves stories, and so very, very quickly it
creates a narrative, aninterpretation.
It attaches meaning oh, if thisthing is happening, that must
mean dot, dot, dot.
We don't choose the stories.
(06:01):
They just get tacked onautomatically to whatever our
nervous system experience is.
And most of us I know this istrue for me for sure we live
believing our stories, andthat's very easy to do because
they're the thoughts that we'rehaving in our head.
So if we're having a thought inour own mind, it seems like we
should probably believe it.
However, they're not alwaysaccurate.
(06:23):
As a matter of fact, they'reoften not accurate because the
narratives that we attach to ourcurrent, present situation,
whatever's happening in thismoment, the stories that we
attach, the narratives that wehave about what's going on right
now, are impacted by many, manyother things in addition to
whatever the events are of anygiven moment.
So, if you think about in arelationship with your partner.
(06:44):
If you have a conflict or aproblem or you're frustrated
with your partner or somethinglike that, there's all the
things that are happening inthat present moment that are
contributing to that experience.
The state of your nervoussystem in that moment is
contributing to yourinterpretation.
Are you a little bit on edge?
Did you have a stressful day orare you in a really positive
place?
Did you have a really relaxing,nourishing day and you feel
really grounded and calm?
(07:04):
That will affect the story thatyou create.
Also, you can look at if you'refeeling hungry or tired or you
have a lot of things on yourto-do list.
Those are more things that arehappening in the current moment
that are actually going todirectly impact the story that
you attach.
And I've talked about this inthe past.
I've always called itdepression goggles.
When I'm depressed, I have onthese goggles that color the
(07:24):
world that I see.
At this point I still refer tothem as depression goggles, but
I could also say dorsal goggles,because that's the same nervous
system state.
When I have on my depressiongoggles, the world looks very
bleak, very gray, and my storiesfollow suit.
And when I have on mysympathetic goggles or my fight
or flight goggles or my anxietygoggles.
That is a different lens thatcolors my world differently and
(07:45):
will also affect theinterpretation that I'm making
in any given moment.
Also, in the current moment, Ihave a certain level of
knowledge or awareness what'shappening for me, what's
happening for my partner, whatis my partner really thinking or
wanting or desiring?
And so there's information thatI don't know or is limited, or
I might think I know.
I also have this vast history,going all the way back to my
(08:05):
childhood, my early days ofexperiences where I have felt
different feelings offrustration or letdown or hurt,
or feeling unheard orundervalued or unloved.
And what happens in thispresent day moment goes through
all of these filters in my brain, it checks in my memories and
all of these different thingsthat happen and it happens in
(08:25):
fractions of a second, by theway and all of these different
things affect the narrative thatI make up.
And then I believe thenarrative, even though it's
probably not accurate, or atleast not fully accurate, or it
might just not be complete,right, there are so many factors
here that I'm not necessarilyconsidering, and when I believe
the story, I'm going to alsoreact.
From the story I'm going to havefeelings based on that story.
(08:48):
I'm going to react if I'mhaving a conflict and I'm
feeling frustrated and I go intoa sympathetic, survival
response.
Or if I go into a shutdown,collapsed, dorsal response, if I
feel like I need to protectmyself.
Those are the options that Ihave.
And it starts in my nervoussystem experience but it becomes
a story and the story is what Ihave awareness of in that
moment.
I don't have awareness of mynervous system experience.
(09:11):
You can develop awareness ofyour nervous system experience
and that is immensely helpful.
But starting with the story canbe really powerful because that
is what is happening in yourmind that you know is happening.
And staying in the story,believing the story, can
escalate things really quicklybecause whatever frustration
you're holding, you can reallyfuel the fire of it by believing
(09:33):
it.
I mentioned this, I think, in mylast episode.
You feel really justified inyour story, like this is what
happened, this is what's goingon, and what choice did I have
but to react this way?
Right, what did my partner wantme to do?
Those feelings of not havingchoice, feeling really justified
in your actions, those areusually pretty good indicators
that you're in your story andthat's a fight response.
You're fighting and you'reprotecting your ground right.
(09:55):
You're engaged in this battle.
So developing the awarenessthat being consumed or enveloped
by your story can be trulydamaging to not just your
relationship with your partner,but also it's damaging to you
because it's using a lot of thissurvival energy, a lot of
chemicals are being released inyour body to protect you.
There might not really be athreat, right, your nervous
(10:16):
system is perceiving a threat,but there's not actually a life
or death situation happening.
Learning how to use the storywhich, again, you have awareness
of, is so incredibly importantand it can shift everything.
From that point on, I'm tellingyou, stay out of the stories.
And some people might say, like, well, what does that mean?
Does that mean I can't trust mythoughts?
And that can feel really,really scary and that could be a
(10:37):
cue of danger for you, thatyour nervous system says, whoa,
I can't trust myself, I can'ttrust the thoughts that are
happening in my brain.
That's terrifying.
That can possibly make you gointo a self-protective reaction
as well, which, of course, wouldmake perfect sense.
But I'm not telling you thatyou can't believe your stories
or that you're crazy forthinking those stories or
(10:57):
anything like that.
I'm saying that the stories arethe product of real things.
They're the product of allthose present moment experiences
that I told you what's actuallyhappening, the state of your
nervous system, your biologicalneeds, if you will, the
information that you have ordon't have about what's
happening for your partner, aswell as all of the history of
experiences.
(11:17):
So your interpretation, thestory you're creating, is
absolutely based on somethingand it's valuable and it's
important.
But believing the story at facevalue is potentially really
harmful.
And when you go to talk therapytraditional talk therapy, which
is a form of therapy that I havealways done and still do really
you're talking about yourstories and there's many
(11:38):
different approaches to therapy.
If you're in a more behavioraltherapy, then this may not be
exactly true, but in atraditional talk therapy session
, you're largely talking aboutyour interpretations, your
narratives, your stories, andyou're doing that to try to
understand those stories.
You're trying to get underneathwhy you're thinking what you're
thinking, why you're feelingwhat you're feeling.
What does it really mean?
(11:58):
What are the underlying unmetneeds that are there, that need
to be met and acknowledged?
You're also having theexperience of sharing your story
and your narrative withsomebody in such a way where you
feel heard and seen and valued.
Those are basic needs as humanbeings and all of that can be
very regulating and very helpfuland make us feel better, so to
(12:20):
speak.
And so a lot of talk therapystarts in the story and tries to
work backwards to get to aplace of having someone feel
regulated.
Whether therapists think aboutit that way or not, I did not
always think about it exactly inthose words, I think.
For many years I've talkedabout reactivity, but now for me
the difference is reallythinking about it as a nervous
(12:42):
system experience, that yournervous system is feeling unsafe
, and that is what dysregulationis, and we want to be able to
help our nervous system feelsafe again, and that's what
regulation is.
There's a lot of differentroads that get to the same place
and so, starting in the story,you can kind of work backwards
to nervous system regulation.
And what polyvagal theory doesis it starts in the nervous
(13:02):
system experience and then ithelps you regulate and then from
that regulated place you candive into the stories and
understand all of those things Imentioned and you can have the
experience of connection thatyou're really longing to have,
feeling heard and valued andimportant and all of those
things.
It's not a better or worse kindof thing.
There are different approachesand there's value in both.
(13:23):
I work from a polyvagalperspective as well as from a
talk therapy perspective andthey go beautifully together.
Talk therapy does tend to takelonger because people are often
in their stories and I have beenstuck in my stories with
therapists for years and they'vebeen doing their talk therapy
approach in a beautiful way tobe able to help me get under the
(13:44):
story.
But it tends to take a whilebecause that's a top down
approach, because we'reaccessing the thinking part of
our brain with words, which,again, there's a lot of value in
that.
However, when we're using words, that's not connecting to our
nervous system because, as Isaid before, our nervous system
does not use words.
Our nervous system isnon-conscious.
It is below our thinkingability.
(14:05):
As a matter of fact, the wordfor how our nervous system
perceives information from theworld it's called neuroception.
It's different than perception.
Perception is thoughts.
The perception of ourneuroception are the stories
that we make up.
Essentially, that might sound alittle confusing so you don't
have to spend too long thinkingabout that, but there are two
different things the informationthat is received by our nervous
system and the thoughts that weattach.
(14:26):
And so we're talking about thethoughts that we attach and the
narratives that we have.
So when I talk about staying outof the story, what I'm saying
is to understand that yourthoughts, of course, mean
something and are, in fact,valuable.
They just might not quite meanwhat you think that they mean.
They might not be quote unquote, true, on the surface level,
but they definitely meansomething and what they really
(14:46):
are is a reflection of the stateof your nervous system at that
particular time.
And again, those depressiongoggles or those fight or flight
goggles color how we see ourexperience, and knowing this is
vitally important, and I'll giveyou an example that hopefully
will make things more clear,because some of this may feel
very confusing, and that's okay.
If this is a new concept,especially if you're not
(15:07):
well-versed in nervous systemlanguage, this can feel a little
bit uncomfortable or confusingand could be a cue of danger
actually for you.
So if that's where you're at, Iinvite you to do whatever you
need to help your nervous systemget back to a sense of safety,
and you can pause this or take abreak or come back or anything
that helps you feel better.
But the reason I talk aboutnervous system stuff is because
(15:27):
it has truly transformed mywhole approach in my life and in
my relationship, and I want tobe able to share it with you.
And so, if this feels like acue of danger, if it feels
overwhelming or you feel likeyou want to shut this off and
avoid it altogether, take abreath and see what makes sense
and feel safe for you in a wayto proceed.
But I will be sharing a personalstory and it was actually
(15:48):
really funny because I knew thatI was going to be doing this
episode.
I knew that I was going to betalking about stories and I
ended up having this experiencewhere I was so fully in my story
and, after everything was saidand done with my husband, I told
him like, wow, thank you somuch, because I didn't know what
example I was going to use whenI did my episode about staying
(16:08):
out of your stories, but I'mgoing to use this example.
That happened today.
So this was actually just lastweek.
It was our 15 year weddinganniversary and my husband had
gotten out of work early becauseit's the day before 4th of July
and his office closed and hecame home early and I was still
in the middle of my very busyday and I was with my kids and I
was sort of between things,getting ready to go and see some
(16:28):
clients, and when he walked inthe door he made a comment to my
daughter about how she wasdrinking from her cup.
And just before he had walkedin, my son had made a comment to
my daughter about how she waseating or drinking, I don't
remember exactly and I had toldmy son to not comment on his
sister's eating.
And then, sure enough, withinfive minutes, my husband walks
in and comments.
(16:49):
Of course my husband didn'tknow that and again, I was busy,
in the middle of doing a lot ofthings.
I had just had the conversationwith my son about the very same
thing.
So I was a little bitdysregulated and I was a little
snappy and I said something tomy husband like don't say
anything about how she'sdrinking, or something like that
.
And he got dysregulated inresponse to my dysregulation.
And I know this now.
(17:09):
I knew it in the moment becausemy nervous system could feel
his nervous system shift, as hisnervous system could definitely
feel my nervous system shift.
But I also since have talked tohim about this, so I do have
more information now than I hadat that moment.
So I know now that in thatmoment he was thinking like gosh
.
I got out of work early today,happy to come home and celebrate
our anniversary, and I walkinto getting criticized or
(17:32):
spoken to in this manner Likewhy did I even leave work?
Right, but at that moment Ididn't know where he was coming
from.
Again, I was just in the middleof a bunch of things and I was
trying to rush off to see someclients and when I left that
interaction it was really brief,just like a few seconds.
But I was dysregulated and mynervous system sent some cues of
danger in the direction of myhusband and my husband's nervous
system responded appropriately.
(17:52):
He felt like he needed toprotect himself and his nervous
system sent some cues of dangerright back to my nervous system.
And within just that very shorttimeframe I was really in my
stories and I was very awarethat I was in my stories and
they were strong, they werepretty intense actually, and I
think, because it was ouranniversary, added to it, the
narratives included things likethis was supposed to be a
(18:13):
special day.
Why are we fighting, we can'teven have a nice anniversary, or
we've been married for 15 yearstogether, for 21.
After all of this time, we'restill having problems like this.
And I was seething.
I really was Again.
I was in my story, I was wellin it, I was aware that I was in
my story and I was kind of likeletting it flow for a moment.
I wasn't saying that it wastrue, I wasn't telling myself
(18:36):
that these things are true, butI also wasn't telling myself
that they were not true.
And this is really importantbecause my nervous system was
revved up.
I was in a pretty angry,sympathetic fight or flight
response and my narrative wasrunning and going like I can't
stand him, we're going to end updivorced.
If it hasn't worked by now,it's never going to work.
(18:58):
All of these pretty intensethoughts were going through my
head and again all happening ina very short period of time.
In that moment when I was allrevved up, my nervous system was
going and in thatself-protective mood.
If I had told myself thesethings aren't true again, that's
top down.
I'm using words to try tocommunicate a message to my
nervous system.
My nervous system would havecalled BS Like no, I'm pretty
(19:18):
angry and he sent cues of dangeryour way.
My job is to protect you fromhim, because that's the thought
when you're in a fight or flightresponse.
And so I didn't tell my nervoussystem that this wasn't true.
Again, it wouldn't havebelieved me.
If I try to convince my nervoussystem that I'm safe when it
does not feel safe, it's goingto double down and say, well,
now I really have to protect youbecause maybe you're crazy.
(19:38):
I don't know what's going onwith you.
But internally now I'm creatinga cue of danger for myself
because my nervous system isreceiving this cue of danger
from my brain that I'm tellingit that things are okay when it
doesn't feel like things areokay.
So I'm creating more of areason for it to stay in that
self-protective mode.
But I just let these thoughtssort of flow and like kind of
wash over me and just kind oflike like fizzle out.
(20:01):
Like I let them slow down ontheir own, which they did, and I
didn't fuel them by saying thatthey were true.
I wasn't like yeah, that's it,that's right, we are going to
get divorced and I hate him andyeah, he's the worst.
Like I didn't do that either.
I was in this very kind of asneutral of a place as I could be
, of acknowledging that thethoughts were there and knowing
(20:23):
that they meant something, butnot that they meant again what I
call a face value, what I wasthinking, like when I was
thinking that I couldn't standmy husband.
Is it really true that I can'tstand my husband?
No, that's not true at all.
In that moment it felt reallytrue because I had on my
sympathetic goggles or my fightor flight goggles, and so
everything's real fiery when Ihave on, when I look at the
world through those lenses,right.
(20:45):
But I just let it be there,balancing, acknowledging that
the thoughts were there andknowing that they meant that I
was dysregulated.
And so I think about itsometimes as like, if you know
the little warning that's on theside view mirror of a car, it
says objects in mirror arecloser than they appear, warning
to the driver when you lookover.
(21:05):
So I sort of think about it inthis kind of a similar way, that
the thoughts in your head maybe less accurate than they
appear.
And so in that moment I waslike, okay, I'm having these
thoughts, they feel very real,I'm just going to let them be
there.
They may or may not be asaccurate as they seem right now.
They slowed down on their ownbecause I wasn't fueling them.
I didn't like start texting myfriend and saying, oh my gosh,
(21:28):
can you believe what Ben justsaid?
Or what happened.
I wasn't revving myself up andsaying like, oh my gosh, yeah,
this is going to be the worstanniversary.
I'm not going to waste my timecelebrating with him.
He's such a jerk.
I just like let the thoughtscascade as they needed to and
then, when they slowed down, Iwas able to start the process of
regulation.
I knew that what the thoughtsreally meant was actually that I
(21:50):
was dysregulated.
Again, I had on the sympatheticgoggles and it didn't mean that
I didn't have to address whathappened with my husband, but if
I had tried to address it withhim in that moment, I would
definitely not have saidanything helpful.
I would have been on attackmode, I would have absolutely
been criticizing him and judginghim and acting like the expert,
and it would have been anightmare of a conversation.
(22:10):
So I calmed myself down, Igrounded myself and I went to
work and I saw some clients fora little while and by the time I
was done and it was time to goout with my husband.
He had done the same in himselfand he had regulated himself
and he said we can talk aboutwhat happened and he really
wanted to enjoy our eveningtogether and celebrate our
(22:31):
anniversary together.
And because I was in a regulatedplace, because I wasn't fired
up, I was able to receive thatand say, yes, it's true, I was
feeling dysregulated as well.
I also would like to talk aboutwhat happened and I also would
like to enjoy our anniversarynow if I had fueled that fire
earlier and was believing thestories.
I mean, first of all, Iwouldn't have even been a very
good therapist, by the way, likeI would have not been present
(22:52):
for my clients if I had beenthat angry and let myself feed
that fire, receive his repairand his attempt to reconnect
with me.
But because I was in a moreregulated place, I was able to
accept the repair and we wereable to reconnect and we ended
(23:14):
up having a really lovely nighttogether.
And it could have been verydifferent if we had stayed in
our stories and continued toescalate the level of
dysregulation and continued toescalate the fight response and
certainly fight response easilycan tip over into feeling that
freeze, shut down response, likeit's not even worth it.
Forget it.
I'm not even trying, and Idon't know if you can hear how
(23:36):
this shows up in so manyrelationship conflicts in so
many different ways.
And little, tiny things canlead to people feeling like they
want to end a relationship orget divorced, or they feel
overwhelmed and they don't feellike they have the tools to have
a happy relationship.
They don't have the tools tohave the relationship they want
to have, or at least they don'thave the tools to have the
relationship they want to havewith the person that they are
(23:57):
with, and that's part of whypeople end up getting divorced.
And so the idea of staying outof your story is so incredibly
powerful.
And again, it doesn't mean thatyou're telling yourself that
the story is not true.
It's understanding that.
What your story means is thatyou're dysregulated and you
really can't figure out what youthink or feel, for that matter,
until you're regulated, becauseyou have on these goggles.
(24:19):
You have on the dorsal gogglesor the shutdown goggles or the
sympathetic goggles or the fightor flight goggles, depending on
how you think about it or lookat it, so you're not seeing
clearly, so you can't figure outwhat you really want to do.
But if you start to be able tonotice, oh, I'm in a story, okay
, and this story feels reallytrue to me right now, that's
okay.
It is true for you right nowbecause you have on this
particular lens, when that lensis removed and your nervous
(24:42):
system is back in the safe statewhich is called ventral, when
your nervous system is feelingsafe and grounded again and you
can take a breath, that's a goodindicator probably, that you're
feeling safer.
If you have a good sigh, alittle reset, then you can look
at the situation and say, hmm,what was really happening?
What did I need to convey?
And again I was able to talk tomy husband and say my son had
(25:02):
said something earlier.
And this is my concern abouthow these criticisms land for my
daughter, who's six, from thetwo most important men in her
life right, her older brotherand her dad.
And I feel very strongly aboutnot supporting a dynamic where
she experiences criticism fromthese two incredibly important
people in her life.
And I was able to share myperspective and be able to have
(25:24):
a conversation.
And again my husband was ableto share his perspective of
where he was coming from and, ofcourse, both of our experiences
made total sense.
Neither of us was wrong.
It was just we were having twodifferent experiences that were
valid.
So I will talk more about howto use validation and empathy in
helpful ways as it pertains tostories and our nervous system
experience, but more on thatanother time.
(25:45):
But for today, I invite you tojust start noticing when you're
in the stories, in thesedysregulated stories, when
you're in that protect yourselfplace and you don't have to
judge yourself for having thestories.
Our nervous system is doingwhat it's supposed to do to
protect us and our brain isdoing what it does by attaching
meaning and trying to understandand attaching this narrative.
(26:05):
The problem is not that thisdynamic is happening.
The problem is that we oftentake our stories at face value
and we believe they mean what wethink they mean, instead of
looking underneath and seeingthat the stories are a
reflection of our nervous systemstate, and our nervous system
state is something that wereally can influence pretty
directly.
We can really help ourselvesfeel regulated and safe in a
(26:28):
pretty powerful way, with somepractice, of course, but it's
pretty astounding andtransformative.
It absolutely has been for meover the last few years.
It has put my wellness journeyinto hyperdrive or something
like that, where I feel likeI've just traveled light years
from where I was just a coupleof years ago by understanding
how my nervous system isconnected to how I experience
(26:50):
myself in the world and mypartner.
I hope that some of thisinformation connected with you
and, like I, I invite you to tryto notice when you're in your
stories and acknowledge them,and notice if the relationship
to your story changes when yournervous system feels safe and
regulated once again, and see ifthere's doors that open
possibilities, that open ways ofcommunicating that are
(27:11):
accessible, that are notavailable when you're really
consumed by the story.
So good luck.
I look forward to hearing whatyour experience is and I will
definitely be talking more aboutthis topic in the very near
future.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
(27:32):
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
(27:54):
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
(28:17):
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected then the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
(28:40):
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
(29:01):
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you interested in learningone of the most helpful
relationship skills that can beused in just about any conflict
you may have with your partner?
Would you like to see how usingthis transformative technique
can help you and your partnerfind solutions that had
previously been totallyinvisible?
If you're ready to grow intohaving a conscious partnership
(00:22):
in which you can make choicesthat can truly transform your
relationship into what youdesire and deserve, join me
today.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am delighted that you are
here.
Let's get started.
I am so excited for thisepisode today because I will be
sharing a skill that I have beenusing really only in this exact
way, or at least thinking aboutit in this particular conscious
(00:44):
way, for the last couple ofyears, but it has been one of
the most helpful and mosttransformative tools that I have
used in my own personalrelationship, and I think I have
been using this skill for many,many years actually, but the
way I've come to think about itand therefore how I've been able
to consciously choose to use it, has shifted.
(01:05):
So I'm so excited to be talkingwith you about this today,
because you, too, may already beusing this skill, and if you
start to think about what you'redoing and really what's
underlying the experience, itwill have an even greater impact
on your relationship and itwill go that much further in
actually creating transformationin your relationship.
So, without further ado, I'mgoing to start talking about
(01:27):
what I refer to, or what I thinkabout, as staying out of your
stories.
I talked about it in the lastepisode and I talked about it
specific to the dynamic of thedisappointed and the
disappointment in relationshipand some of the common stories
that can come up in that dynamic.
So if you're interested inhearing more about that, then
definitely tune into the lastepisode.
But today I'm going to talkabout staying out of your
(01:48):
stories in a more broad senseand how to use this tool in a
conscious way.
And I talk about consciousrelationships and I've talked
about it before.
But just a quick recap for todaybeing in a conscious
partnership, or being aconscious partner, means that
you have a level of awarenessabout what you're choosing to do
.
So when something happens, whenyou're in a conflict with your
partner, you look at theconflict, what is happening for
(02:10):
you, what your needs are, whatstate your nervous system is in
and also looking at your partnerand what their needs are and
what their nervous system stateis, and then kind of assessing
the whole thing and saying whatis the most helpful action right
now.
That really supports me beingin alignment with who I am and
also contributing to anenvironment in which the
(02:30):
relationship I want can bepossible and where I have the
best chance of getting my needsmet in a good enough way and my
partner also has the best chanceof getting their needs met in a
good enough way.
So this doesn't mean you'reguaranteed that all of your
needs and all of your partner'sneeds are going to be met
exactly the way you want them tobe and in the time frame that
you want them to be met.
(02:51):
It doesn't work quite like that, but it is really paving the
path towards the relationshipthat you want to have, because
many of us certainly myself forvery many years, as much as I
tried to be conscious many of usare living very unconsciously
and what's really guiding ourdecisions is actually our
survival techniques, what welearned in childhood, how we
(03:12):
emotionally protected ourselves,and it's really wonderful that
our nervous system and our brainhas these automatic techniques
because it does in fact help uswhen we're kids, when we're not
developed cognitively andemotionally and psychologically
and physically and we don't haveall of these options and we
don't also have a lot of poweras kids either.
And so it's great that we havethese techniques that help us in
(03:32):
our childhood.
But what we automatically do tohelp us get through, get by
when we're young, we often carrywith us into our adult life and
we react in our adult life andin our adult relationship from
that same unconscious place,that self-protective, automatic
reaction, becoming consciousmoves, being reactive to being
responsive.
(03:52):
So the idea of staying out ofstories is a way of being
responsive, a way to respond toa situation in a way that
actually helps things get better.
So what do I mean when I talkabout staying out of the stories
?
What happens in all of us isthat our nervous system actually
receives a cue, a cue of dangeror a cue of safety.
Probably many cues of safetyand many cues of danger actually
(04:13):
are present in different ways,all the time actually.
But our nervous system receivescues from the environment, from
our own internal body, what'shappening inside of us and also
between nervous systems, oranother way of saying, that is,
in relationships, so betweenyour nervous system and your
partner's nervous system or anyother nervous systems that are
around you actually, and yournervous system is always
(04:34):
assessing these cues Is this acue of danger, is this a cue of
safety?
And its job is to figure thatout and when the cues of danger
outweigh the cues of safetypresent.
It's not a numbers thing likeyou have to have more cues of
safety, but they actually haveto be weightier, and so
sometimes the scales shift andour nervous system determines
(04:54):
that our cues of danger areoutweighing our cues of safety
that are present in any givenmoment, and when that happens,
it sends a message right out toour brain and it says danger,
danger.
We need to protect ourselves.
And thank goodness this happensbecause in a life or death
situation or in a physicalthreat situation, these
processes happen extremelyquickly, and it's excellent that
we have the ability to reactand we jump into our fight or
(05:18):
flight survival mode.
Or we go into our freezeresponse, our shutdown response,
or we go into our freezeresponse.
Our shutdown response, ourfight or flight response, is our
sympathetic response, and thatfreeze collapse, withdraw, is
when our nervous system is inour dorsal state.
This all happens so veryquickly, and it also happens
below thought.
It's not unconscious, it'snon-conscious, it doesn't
involve our thinking brain atall.
(05:40):
It is our sensory bodyexperience and what our nervous
system is receiving.
And so all of this gets sent upto the brain.
And then our brain loves stories, and so very, very quickly it
creates a narrative, aninterpretation.
It attaches meaning oh, if thisthing is happening, that must
mean dot, dot, dot.
We don't choose the stories.
(06:01):
They just get tacked onautomatically to whatever our
nervous system experience is.
And most of us I know this istrue for me for sure we live
believing our stories, andthat's very easy to do because
they're the thoughts that we'rehaving in our head.
So if we're having a thought inour own mind, it seems like we
should probably believe it.
However, they're not alwaysaccurate.
(06:23):
As a matter of fact, they'reoften not accurate because the
narratives that we attach to ourcurrent, present situation,
whatever's happening in thismoment, the stories that we
attach, the narratives that wehave about what's going on right
now, are impacted by many, manyother things in addition to
whatever the events are of anygiven moment.
So, if you think about in arelationship with your partner.
(06:44):
If you have a conflict or aproblem or you're frustrated
with your partner or somethinglike that, there's all the
things that are happening inthat present moment that are
contributing to that experience.
The state of your nervoussystem in that moment is
contributing to yourinterpretation.
Are you a little bit on edge?
Did you have a stressful day orare you in a really positive
place?
Did you have a really relaxing,nourishing day and you feel
really grounded and calm?
(07:04):
That will affect the story thatyou create.
Also, you can look at if you'refeeling hungry or tired or you
have a lot of things on yourto-do list.
Those are more things that arehappening in the current moment
that are actually going todirectly impact the story that
you attach.
And I've talked about this inthe past.
I've always called itdepression goggles.
When I'm depressed, I have onthese goggles that color the
(07:24):
world that I see.
At this point I still refer tothem as depression goggles, but
I could also say dorsal goggles,because that's the same nervous
system state.
When I have on my depressiongoggles, the world looks very
bleak, very gray, and my storiesfollow suit.
And when I have on mysympathetic goggles or my fight
or flight goggles or my anxietygoggles.
That is a different lens thatcolors my world differently and
(07:45):
will also affect theinterpretation that I'm making
in any given moment.
Also, in the current moment, Ihave a certain level of
knowledge or awareness what'shappening for me, what's
happening for my partner, whatis my partner really thinking or
wanting or desiring?
And so there's information thatI don't know or is limited, or
I might think I know.
I also have this vast history,going all the way back to my
(08:05):
childhood, my early days ofexperiences where I have felt
different feelings offrustration or letdown or hurt,
or feeling unheard orundervalued or unloved.
And what happens in thispresent day moment goes through
all of these filters in my brain, it checks in my memories and
all of these different thingsthat happen and it happens in
(08:25):
fractions of a second, by theway and all of these different
things affect the narrative thatI make up.
And then I believe thenarrative, even though it's
probably not accurate, or atleast not fully accurate, or it
might just not be complete,right, there are so many factors
here that I'm not necessarilyconsidering, and when I believe
the story, I'm going to alsoreact.
From the story I'm going to havefeelings based on that story.
(08:48):
I'm going to react if I'mhaving a conflict and I'm
feeling frustrated and I go intoa sympathetic, survival
response.
Or if I go into a shutdown,collapsed, dorsal response, if I
feel like I need to protectmyself.
Those are the options that Ihave.
And it starts in my nervoussystem experience but it becomes
a story and the story is what Ihave awareness of in that
moment.
I don't have awareness of mynervous system experience.
(09:11):
You can develop awareness ofyour nervous system experience
and that is immensely helpful.
But starting with the story canbe really powerful because that
is what is happening in yourmind that you know is happening.
And staying in the story,believing the story, can
escalate things really quicklybecause whatever frustration
you're holding, you can reallyfuel the fire of it by believing
(09:33):
it.
I mentioned this, I think, in mylast episode.
You feel really justified inyour story, like this is what
happened, this is what's goingon, and what choice did I have
but to react this way?
Right, what did my partner wantme to do?
Those feelings of not havingchoice, feeling really justified
in your actions, those areusually pretty good indicators
that you're in your story andthat's a fight response.
You're fighting and you'reprotecting your ground right.
(09:55):
You're engaged in this battle.
So developing the awarenessthat being consumed or enveloped
by your story can be trulydamaging to not just your
relationship with your partner,but also it's damaging to you
because it's using a lot of thissurvival energy, a lot of
chemicals are being released inyour body to protect you.
There might not really be athreat, right, your nervous
(10:16):
system is perceiving a threat,but there's not actually a life
or death situation happening.
Learning how to use the storywhich, again, you have awareness
of, is so incredibly importantand it can shift everything.
From that point on, I'm tellingyou, stay out of the stories.
And some people might say, like, well, what does that mean?
Does that mean I can't trust mythoughts?
And that can feel really,really scary and that could be a
(10:37):
cue of danger for you, thatyour nervous system says, whoa,
I can't trust myself, I can'ttrust the thoughts that are
happening in my brain.
That's terrifying.
That can possibly make you gointo a self-protective reaction
as well, which, of course, wouldmake perfect sense.
But I'm not telling you thatyou can't believe your stories
or that you're crazy forthinking those stories or
(10:57):
anything like that.
I'm saying that the stories arethe product of real things.
They're the product of allthose present moment experiences
that I told you what's actuallyhappening, the state of your
nervous system, your biologicalneeds, if you will, the
information that you have ordon't have about what's
happening for your partner, aswell as all of the history of
experiences.
(11:17):
So your interpretation, thestory you're creating, is
absolutely based on somethingand it's valuable and it's
important.
But believing the story at facevalue is potentially really
harmful.
And when you go to talk therapytraditional talk therapy, which
is a form of therapy that I havealways done and still do really
you're talking about yourstories and there's many
(11:38):
different approaches to therapy.
If you're in a more behavioraltherapy, then this may not be
exactly true, but in atraditional talk therapy session
, you're largely talking aboutyour interpretations, your
narratives, your stories, andyou're doing that to try to
understand those stories.
You're trying to get underneathwhy you're thinking what you're
thinking, why you're feelingwhat you're feeling.
What does it really mean?
(11:58):
What are the underlying unmetneeds that are there, that need
to be met and acknowledged?
You're also having theexperience of sharing your story
and your narrative withsomebody in such a way where you
feel heard and seen and valued.
Those are basic needs as humanbeings and all of that can be
very regulating and very helpfuland make us feel better, so to
(12:20):
speak.
And so a lot of talk therapystarts in the story and tries to
work backwards to get to aplace of having someone feel
regulated.
Whether therapists think aboutit that way or not, I did not
always think about it exactly inthose words, I think.
For many years I've talkedabout reactivity, but now for me
the difference is reallythinking about it as a nervous
(12:42):
system experience, that yournervous system is feeling unsafe
, and that is what dysregulationis, and we want to be able to
help our nervous system feelsafe again, and that's what
regulation is.
There's a lot of differentroads that get to the same place
and so, starting in the story,you can kind of work backwards
to nervous system regulation.
And what polyvagal theory doesis it starts in the nervous
(13:02):
system experience and then ithelps you regulate and then from
that regulated place you candive into the stories and
understand all of those things Imentioned and you can have the
experience of connection thatyou're really longing to have,
feeling heard and valued andimportant and all of those
things.
It's not a better or worse kindof thing.
There are different approachesand there's value in both.
(13:23):
I work from a polyvagalperspective as well as from a
talk therapy perspective andthey go beautifully together.
Talk therapy does tend to takelonger because people are often
in their stories and I have beenstuck in my stories with
therapists for years and they'vebeen doing their talk therapy
approach in a beautiful way tobe able to help me get under the
(13:44):
story.
But it tends to take a whilebecause that's a top down
approach, because we'reaccessing the thinking part of
our brain with words, which,again, there's a lot of value in
that.
However, when we're using words, that's not connecting to our
nervous system because, as Isaid before, our nervous system
does not use words.
Our nervous system isnon-conscious.
It is below our thinkingability.
(14:05):
As a matter of fact, the wordfor how our nervous system
perceives information from theworld it's called neuroception.
It's different than perception.
Perception is thoughts.
The perception of ourneuroception are the stories
that we make up.
Essentially, that might sound alittle confusing so you don't
have to spend too long thinkingabout that, but there are two
different things the informationthat is received by our nervous
system and the thoughts that weattach.
(14:26):
And so we're talking about thethoughts that we attach and the
narratives that we have.
So when I talk about staying outof the story, what I'm saying
is to understand that yourthoughts, of course, mean
something and are, in fact,valuable.
They just might not quite meanwhat you think that they mean.
They might not be quote unquote, true, on the surface level,
but they definitely meansomething and what they really
(14:46):
are is a reflection of the stateof your nervous system at that
particular time.
And again, those depressiongoggles or those fight or flight
goggles color how we see ourexperience, and knowing this is
vitally important, and I'll giveyou an example that hopefully
will make things more clear,because some of this may feel
very confusing, and that's okay.
If this is a new concept,especially if you're not
(15:07):
well-versed in nervous systemlanguage, this can feel a little
bit uncomfortable or confusingand could be a cue of danger
actually for you.
So if that's where you're at, Iinvite you to do whatever you
need to help your nervous systemget back to a sense of safety,
and you can pause this or take abreak or come back or anything
that helps you feel better.
But the reason I talk aboutnervous system stuff is because
(15:27):
it has truly transformed mywhole approach in my life and in
my relationship, and I want tobe able to share it with you.
And so, if this feels like acue of danger, if it feels
overwhelming or you feel likeyou want to shut this off and
avoid it altogether, take abreath and see what makes sense
and feel safe for you in a wayto proceed.
But I will be sharing a personalstory and it was actually
(15:48):
really funny because I knew thatI was going to be doing this
episode.
I knew that I was going to betalking about stories and I
ended up having this experiencewhere I was so fully in my story
and, after everything was saidand done with my husband, I told
him like, wow, thank you somuch, because I didn't know what
example I was going to use whenI did my episode about staying
(16:08):
out of your stories, but I'mgoing to use this example.
That happened today.
So this was actually just lastweek.
It was our 15 year weddinganniversary and my husband had
gotten out of work early becauseit's the day before 4th of July
and his office closed and hecame home early and I was still
in the middle of my very busyday and I was with my kids and I
was sort of between things,getting ready to go and see some
(16:28):
clients, and when he walked inthe door he made a comment to my
daughter about how she wasdrinking from her cup.
And just before he had walkedin, my son had made a comment to
my daughter about how she waseating or drinking, I don't
remember exactly and I had toldmy son to not comment on his
sister's eating.
And then, sure enough, withinfive minutes, my husband walks
in and comments.
(16:49):
Of course my husband didn'tknow that and again, I was busy,
in the middle of doing a lot ofthings.
I had just had the conversationwith my son about the very same
thing.
So I was a little bitdysregulated and I was a little
snappy and I said something tomy husband like don't say
anything about how she'sdrinking, or something like that
.
And he got dysregulated inresponse to my dysregulation.
And I know this now.
(17:09):
I knew it in the moment becausemy nervous system could feel
his nervous system shift, as hisnervous system could definitely
feel my nervous system shift.
But I also since have talked tohim about this, so I do have
more information now than I hadat that moment.
So I know now that in thatmoment he was thinking like gosh
.
I got out of work early today,happy to come home and celebrate
our anniversary, and I walkinto getting criticized or
(17:32):
spoken to in this manner Likewhy did I even leave work?
Right, but at that moment Ididn't know where he was coming
from.
Again, I was just in the middleof a bunch of things and I was
trying to rush off to see someclients and when I left that
interaction it was really brief,just like a few seconds.
But I was dysregulated and mynervous system sent some cues of
danger in the direction of myhusband and my husband's nervous
system responded appropriately.
(17:52):
He felt like he needed toprotect himself and his nervous
system sent some cues of dangerright back to my nervous system.
And within just that very shorttimeframe I was really in my
stories and I was very awarethat I was in my stories and
they were strong, they werepretty intense actually, and I
think, because it was ouranniversary, added to it, the
narratives included things likethis was supposed to be a
(18:13):
special day.
Why are we fighting, we can'teven have a nice anniversary, or
we've been married for 15 yearstogether, for 21.
After all of this time, we'restill having problems like this.
And I was seething.
I really was Again.
I was in my story, I was wellin it, I was aware that I was in
my story and I was kind of likeletting it flow for a moment.
I wasn't saying that it wastrue, I wasn't telling myself
(18:36):
that these things are true, butI also wasn't telling myself
that they were not true.
And this is really importantbecause my nervous system was
revved up.
I was in a pretty angry,sympathetic fight or flight
response and my narrative wasrunning and going like I can't
stand him, we're going to end updivorced.
If it hasn't worked by now,it's never going to work.
(18:58):
All of these pretty intensethoughts were going through my
head and again all happening ina very short period of time.
In that moment when I was allrevved up, my nervous system was
going and in thatself-protective mood.
If I had told myself thesethings aren't true again, that's
top down.
I'm using words to try tocommunicate a message to my
nervous system.
My nervous system would havecalled BS Like no, I'm pretty
(19:18):
angry and he sent cues of dangeryour way.
My job is to protect you fromhim, because that's the thought
when you're in a fight or flightresponse.
And so I didn't tell my nervoussystem that this wasn't true.
Again, it wouldn't havebelieved me.
If I try to convince my nervoussystem that I'm safe when it
does not feel safe, it's goingto double down and say, well,
now I really have to protect youbecause maybe you're crazy.
(19:38):
I don't know what's going onwith you.
But internally now I'm creatinga cue of danger for myself
because my nervous system isreceiving this cue of danger
from my brain that I'm tellingit that things are okay when it
doesn't feel like things areokay.
So I'm creating more of areason for it to stay in that
self-protective mode.
But I just let these thoughtssort of flow and like kind of
wash over me and just kind oflike like fizzle out.
(20:01):
Like I let them slow down ontheir own, which they did, and I
didn't fuel them by saying thatthey were true.
I wasn't like yeah, that's it,that's right, we are going to
get divorced and I hate him andyeah, he's the worst.
Like I didn't do that either.
I was in this very kind of asneutral of a place as I could be
, of acknowledging that thethoughts were there and knowing
(20:23):
that they meant something, butnot that they meant again what I
call a face value, what I wasthinking, like when I was
thinking that I couldn't standmy husband.
Is it really true that I can'tstand my husband?
No, that's not true at all.
In that moment it felt reallytrue because I had on my
sympathetic goggles or my fightor flight goggles, and so
everything's real fiery when Ihave on, when I look at the
world through those lenses,right.
(20:45):
But I just let it be there,balancing, acknowledging that
the thoughts were there andknowing that they meant that I
was dysregulated.
And so I think about itsometimes as like, if you know
the little warning that's on theside view mirror of a car, it
says objects in mirror arecloser than they appear, warning
to the driver when you lookover.
(21:05):
So I sort of think about it inthis kind of a similar way, that
the thoughts in your head maybe less accurate than they
appear.
And so in that moment I waslike, okay, I'm having these
thoughts, they feel very real,I'm just going to let them be
there.
They may or may not be asaccurate as they seem right now.
They slowed down on their ownbecause I wasn't fueling them.
I didn't like start texting myfriend and saying, oh my gosh,
(21:28):
can you believe what Ben justsaid?
Or what happened.
I wasn't revving myself up andsaying like, oh my gosh, yeah,
this is going to be the worstanniversary.
I'm not going to waste my timecelebrating with him.
He's such a jerk.
I just like let the thoughtscascade as they needed to and
then, when they slowed down, Iwas able to start the process of
regulation.
I knew that what the thoughtsreally meant was actually that I
(21:50):
was dysregulated.
Again, I had on the sympatheticgoggles and it didn't mean that
I didn't have to address whathappened with my husband, but if
I had tried to address it withhim in that moment, I would
definitely not have saidanything helpful.
I would have been on attackmode, I would have absolutely
been criticizing him and judginghim and acting like the expert,
and it would have been anightmare of a conversation.
(22:10):
So I calmed myself down, Igrounded myself and I went to
work and I saw some clients fora little while and by the time I
was done and it was time to goout with my husband.
He had done the same in himselfand he had regulated himself
and he said we can talk aboutwhat happened and he really
wanted to enjoy our eveningtogether and celebrate our
(22:31):
anniversary together.
And because I was in a regulatedplace, because I wasn't fired
up, I was able to receive thatand say, yes, it's true, I was
feeling dysregulated as well.
I also would like to talk aboutwhat happened and I also would
like to enjoy our anniversarynow if I had fueled that fire
earlier and was believing thestories.
I mean, first of all, Iwouldn't have even been a very
good therapist, by the way, likeI would have not been present
(22:52):
for my clients if I had beenthat angry and let myself feed
that fire, receive his repairand his attempt to reconnect
with me.
But because I was in a moreregulated place, I was able to
accept the repair and we wereable to reconnect and we ended
(23:14):
up having a really lovely nighttogether.
And it could have been verydifferent if we had stayed in
our stories and continued toescalate the level of
dysregulation and continued toescalate the fight response and
certainly fight response easilycan tip over into feeling that
freeze, shut down response, likeit's not even worth it.
Forget it.
I'm not even trying, and Idon't know if you can hear how
(23:36):
this shows up in so manyrelationship conflicts in so
many different ways.
And little, tiny things canlead to people feeling like they
want to end a relationship orget divorced, or they feel
overwhelmed and they don't feellike they have the tools to have
a happy relationship.
They don't have the tools tohave the relationship they want
to have, or at least they don'thave the tools to have the
relationship they want to havewith the person that they are
(23:57):
with, and that's part of whypeople end up getting divorced.
And so the idea of staying outof your story is so incredibly
powerful.
And again, it doesn't mean thatyou're telling yourself that
the story is not true.
It's understanding that.
What your story means is thatyou're dysregulated and you
really can't figure out what youthink or feel, for that matter,
until you're regulated, becauseyou have on these goggles.
(24:19):
You have on the dorsal gogglesor the shutdown goggles or the
sympathetic goggles or the fightor flight goggles, depending on
how you think about it or lookat it, so you're not seeing
clearly, so you can't figure outwhat you really want to do.
But if you start to be able tonotice, oh, I'm in a story, okay
, and this story feels reallytrue to me right now, that's
okay.
It is true for you right nowbecause you have on this
particular lens, when that lensis removed and your nervous
(24:42):
system is back in the safe statewhich is called ventral, when
your nervous system is feelingsafe and grounded again and you
can take a breath, that's a goodindicator probably, that you're
feeling safer.
If you have a good sigh, alittle reset, then you can look
at the situation and say, hmm,what was really happening?
What did I need to convey?
And again I was able to talk tomy husband and say my son had
(25:02):
said something earlier.
And this is my concern abouthow these criticisms land for my
daughter, who's six, from thetwo most important men in her
life right, her older brotherand her dad.
And I feel very strongly aboutnot supporting a dynamic where
she experiences criticism fromthese two incredibly important
people in her life.
And I was able to share myperspective and be able to have
(25:24):
a conversation.
And again my husband was ableto share his perspective of
where he was coming from and, ofcourse, both of our experiences
made total sense.
Neither of us was wrong.
It was just we were having twodifferent experiences that were
valid.
So I will talk more about howto use validation and empathy in
helpful ways as it pertains tostories and our nervous system
experience, but more on thatanother time.
(25:45):
But for today, I invite you tojust start noticing when you're
in the stories, in thesedysregulated stories, when
you're in that protect yourselfplace and you don't have to
judge yourself for having thestories.
Our nervous system is doingwhat it's supposed to do to
protect us and our brain isdoing what it does by attaching
meaning and trying to understandand attaching this narrative.
(26:05):
The problem is not that thisdynamic is happening.
The problem is that we oftentake our stories at face value
and we believe they mean what wethink they mean, instead of
looking underneath and seeingthat the stories are a
reflection of our nervous systemstate, and our nervous system
state is something that wereally can influence pretty
directly.
We can really help ourselvesfeel regulated and safe in a
(26:28):
pretty powerful way, with somepractice, of course, but it's
pretty astounding andtransformative.
It absolutely has been for meover the last few years.
It has put my wellness journeyinto hyperdrive or something
like that, where I feel likeI've just traveled light years
from where I was just a coupleof years ago by understanding
how my nervous system isconnected to how I experience
(26:50):
myself in the world and mypartner.
I hope that some of thisinformation connected with you
and, like I, I invite you to tryto notice when you're in your
stories and acknowledge them,and notice if the relationship
to your story changes when yournervous system feels safe and
regulated once again, and see ifthere's doors that open
possibilities, that open ways ofcommunicating that are
(27:11):
accessible, that are notavailable when you're really
consumed by the story.
So good luck.
I look forward to hearing whatyour experience is and I will
definitely be talking more aboutthis topic in the very near
future.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
(27:32):
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
(27:54):
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
(28:17):
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected then the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
(28:40):
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
(29:01):
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
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