May 21, 2025 • 23 mins
Feeling stuck in a numbed-out state, just going through the motions day after day? Longing for something more but unsure how to find your way forward? This deeply compassionate exploration offers concrete, accessible steps that can help you to begin moving out of a mild, moderate or even severe depression.
Through understanding how our nervous systems become trapped in what experts call the "dorsal vagal state"—that shutdown, collapsed experience of depression—we gain insight into why recovery often happens more slowly than we'd like. The good news is that there are gentle, manageable actions anyone can take, regardless of how deeply entrenched in depression you currently feel.
We explore the vital role of safe connection in healing depression, with particular attention to what "safe" truly means for your unique system. For many of us, our history of social interactions with loved ones has been the source of hurt, making connection feel threatening. This episode offers alternative connection pathways including pet relationships, nature immersion, and even the surprising value of simply being around strangers in public spaces. Discover the remarkable power of wordless connection—how shared gazes and genuine laughter can sometimes create deeper bonds than conversation, especially in romantic relationships where tension often lives in our words.
The episode also delves into breath as a powerful self-regulation tool, distinguishing between dysregulated breathing patterns and those that help lift us from depression's heaviness. Rather than prescribing rigid practices, you'll learn to identify what breath techniques actually resonate with your individual nervous system, whether that's energizing inhales, calming exhales, or the vibrating comfort of humming and chanting.
This episode is part of a series, so check out the last episode for an overview of the "take a step" framework and keep listening to future episodes for more specific step ideas.
Remember that your journey out of depression doesn't require giant leaps—it begins with a single step in any direction. Subscribe now to continue this exploration of practical, compassionate approaches to healing, even when depression has made itself at home in your most intimate spaces.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you feeling stuck indepression or sort of numbed out
, going through the motions dayto day?
Are you longing for somethingmore for yourself, for your life
and for your relationship, butyou just can't seem to find your
way?
If this is you, please knowthat you're not alone.
Getting unstuck can be toughand I invite you to tune in to
(00:23):
today's episode for somespecific ideas for how to
determine what next step reallymakes sense for you, so you can
create the path to where youreally want to be.
I'm your host, trish Sanders.
Let's get started.
This episode is a follow-up tothe last one, in which I
discussed the invitation to takea step that I include each week
(00:45):
in my outro.
I wanted to address somespecific ideas of what could
feel supportive and helpful forsomeone as they start to take
steps to move out of adepressive episode, or even when
it's not a fully diagnosabledepression, steps that someone
can take to help them move outof a state of collapse or
withdrawal or that kind ofnumbed out going through the
(01:07):
motions way that some of us gothrough our days.
If you relate to any of theseexperiences, this means that you
very well are somebody whosenervous system is probably stuck
in what is called the dorsalvagal state, that is, the shut
down, collapsed, protectyourself by disappearing state
of our nervous system.
It's a survival response and italso has very many functional
(01:30):
aspects to it as well, and ifyou listened to the last episode
, you may recall that there arebiological reasons that the
process of getting unstuck mightactually be slower than we
would like it to be,particularly when your nervous
system is stuck in a very deepdorsal experience or that very
deeply depressed place.
So please, as I talk to youabout taking steps, keep in mind
(01:52):
that this process might takemore time than you expect it to
or than you hope it will.
If you're not quite so deep inthe dorsal experience, you may
find that you have more abilityto access seemingly bigger steps
, or you might be able to takemore than one step at a time, or
you might find that you may beable to build momentum more
quickly.
It's a very individualexperience and there is no one
(02:16):
right way.
So please stay attuned toyourself and try to keep
reaching for self-compassion,cheer yourself on for the steps
that you intend to take, thatyou imagine yourself taking and,
of course, any steps thatyou're able to take and make
some movement forward.
One kind of step that can beincredibly valuable is taking a
step towards connection.
(02:37):
But connection can be a bittricky because for many people,
being in connection has beenhurtful or harmful or
threatening.
Being in relationship has beenthe place where we have been
hurt, and so reaching out forconnection may not feel safe or
available to us, and so I reallyinvite you to think about what
(02:57):
kind of connecting feels safefor you.
And it might be that you don'thave a specific person in mind
that you feel like you can reachout to, but perhaps you have a
pet that you really love andfeel really comforted by, and
there is research about howmammal to mammal nervous systems
connect to one another and canco-regulate.
We can receive and give cues ofsafety and have that comfort
(03:19):
and connection that we want withother mammalian nervous systems
.
So of course, that's like humanto cat or human to dog or
something like that.
But I will say that if you havea lizard or a snake or some
non-mammal pet that you feelconnected to and it works for
you, then absolutely startreaching for connection.
There you also can connect withnature and be outside or look
(03:42):
out the window or even look atpictures or videos of nature.
You can really think about whatkind of connection feels safe
for you and what feels availableto you, and you can start there
.
I will point out that if you'rein a romantic relationship that
feels like it's dysregulated alot of the time whether that
means that you or your partneror both of you, frequently move
(04:03):
into dysregulation.
So in other words, that meansif one of you feels emotionally
unsafe for whatever reason,you're in an argument, a
conflict of some sort, orthere's a lot of tension between
the two of you so your nervoussystem reads cues of danger in
your romantic relationship andso you go into a survival state,
whether that is a dorsalcollapse, withdrawal, shutdown
(04:24):
or a sympathetic fight or flightresponse.
That's what I mean when I sayif you're in a relationship
that's frequently dysregulated.
If that applies to you rightnow, then it may be true for you
that in many moments, movingtowards the connection of your
relationship may not feel likethe most accessible or safest
option, and that's okay.
It just might mean that youhave some work to do and you can
(04:45):
reach out to connect with a petor with nature or another
friend or family member whereconnection does feel safer and
more accessible to you.
And as you continue to work onyourself, you can then work on
your relationship and work oncreating a safer, more available
connection with your romanticpartner.
And I will also add thatsometimes just being around
(05:06):
people, whether you know them ornot, can feel like a safe
connection.
So that might be going to abench in a sort of crowded or
semi-crowded park and just kindof feeling the energy of people
being playful and having a nicetime around you.
That also has an added benefitpotentially of being around
nature.
If you're somewhere beautifulwith some nice trees or flowers
(05:27):
or a lake or something like that, that can be a very connecting
experience.
Or it could even be walkingaround a store and just feeling
the energy of the people in thestore.
For some people that's a reallyhelpful and available place of
connection.
That may be less threateningthan reaching out to somebody
who you know really well, wherepotentially there might be a
more of a fear of abandonment orrejection or something like
(05:50):
that.
So connection can look a lot ofdifferent ways and I really
encourage you to check in withyourself and see what connection
feels like for you and that'sthe only right answer is what
connection feels like to yoursystem.
That's really what we'relooking for here and in all of
the steps what feels like justthe right fit for you in a
particular moment, because whatyour nervous system may need
(06:11):
right now may be very differentfrom what your nervous system
needs an hour from now or nextweek or next month.
Now, if you do find somebodythat feels like a safe enough
connection, you can play witheye contact to see if that feels
safe and accessible and again,it might not for some people,
and that's okay.
But if it does, if you canreally look at them and see that
(06:31):
there's this other nervoussystem that's present with you,
and if your nervous system canreally allow that to be able to
receive that message, that canfoster a great connection.
And I will also say here thatsometimes that kind of
connection is actually moreavailable when words are not
present.
I am a very big words person andso if I'm sitting across my
(06:53):
partner imagine like sitting atdinner or something like that
and we're looking at each other,I have a strong tendency to
want to talk and fill the spacebetween us with words, because I
find words connecting andsometimes my partner does as
well, but a lot of the time hewill actually be overwhelmed, or
perhaps how I'm sending wordsmight come off as threatening or
(07:14):
disconnecting for him.
And I have truly learned overthe last I would say decade that
connection between people witheye contact, without words, can
actually be far safer and areally satisfying experience of
connection.
So I would refer to that asgazing.
You might call it somethingelse, but if you just imagine
sitting across from your partnerand just looking at them with
(07:37):
warmth and love, without havingto say anything but really being
able to have your nervoussystem send this message of I
love you, you matter to me,you're good enough, I'm happier
in my life those sorts ofmessages and to be able to give
and hopefully also be open toreceive those messages can be an
(07:58):
extraordinarily connectingexperience and it's a really
wonderful place in romanticrelationship to work on.
Sometimes, when words can bethreatening or scary or cause
more conflict or more argument,you can kind of build that safe
connection in that place so thatyou can increase your ability
to have safer conversations andmove into things that feel a
(08:19):
little bit more threatening,emotionally speaking.
You can have those kinds ofconversations but you don't have
to sacrifice the connection.
But sometimes you just have tolose some of the words, which
for me has been difficult attimes to do.
But I've also seen the payoff,and when I can remember to quiet
down a little bit in the nameof creating a safe space between
my partner and I, it really cango a long way towards creating
(08:41):
the feeling in the relationshipI really want to have.
If you happen to find yourselfconnecting with somebody, making
eye contact or not, maybe justenjoying each other, telling a
funny joke, sharing funnystories, and if you can find
yourself laughing together.
You don't have to force this tohappen, but if you find that
you're in safe connection,you're able to laugh and have
(09:01):
that kind of enjoyment and thatlevel of connection, that's a
really beautiful thing and Iwould encourage you to notice
that and savor that like oh,this is what it feels like to
share laughter.
That's a deeply connectingexperience and you don't have to
go into some quote unquote deepconversations necessarily.
They could be very, very lighthearted.
(09:21):
This is another place where myhusband has much more strength
in this area and he can oftenbring lightness and he can often
bring lightness into asituation or try to bring
lightness into a situation, andsometimes my nervous system does
receive that as a threat, likeare you not taking this
seriously?
What's going on here?
But when I can regulate myselfand recognize that my husband is
trying to connect throughlightness, through humor,
(09:43):
through joy, and if I can allowmyself to connect on that level
again, it can be a much safer,more accessible type of
connecting and it also can setthe stage for us being able to
move into perhaps a conversation.
Again.
Words are connecting for me,talking about conflict or how do
we figure things out that canfeel very connecting to me but
can feel threatening to mypartner sometimes.
(10:04):
And so we can kind of work ondifferent levels of connection.
And so I do offer you to noticethose beautiful moments of eye
contact, notice those beautifulmoments of shared laughter.
They matter just as much, andperhaps maybe even more in some
ways, to our nervous system andto our connection than talking
about the hard things.
We need tools to talk about thehard things a lot of the time,
(10:26):
but sharing a sweet gaze or agenuine laugh is not something
we necessarily need tools for atall, but it is something that
we do sometimes need to slowdown and allow for.
So I really encourage you tothink about connecting in these
kinds of ways, especially withyour romantic partner, but with
anybody who you feel safe toconnect with.
These are great opportunitiesfor connection.
(10:47):
I will also put a little bit ofa warning that if you find
yourself having had a connection, a successful connection that
felt safe and enjoyable, andthen that moment is over, the
person leaves and it could justbe that they leave the room or,
you know, you end the FaceTimecall or they actually go home,
if you don't live with them,that kind of thing.
But if your time of connectioncomes to a close and you notice
(11:09):
that you felt uplifted by theconnection, but now you notice
that you're falling back downinto dorsal again because you're
experiencing a loss of thatconnection, I will just say that
this is certainly possible andit can be expected.
It's not always the case, butit doesn't mean that anything is
wrong.
It actually means that theconnection was something that
felt nourishing and feltpositive and good to your system
(11:30):
and you're missing it andperhaps you're worried that
you're not going to be able toget it back.
So if this is the case, Ireally encourage you to try to
savor that connecting moment andhold that in your heart.
Savoring officially in polyvagaltheory is actually only holding
on to that experience for up to30 seconds, and it could be
just a few seconds three, four,five, six seconds until the
thought comes like, oh, but Iwon't see them again for a while
(11:53):
, or you know, we'll be arguingfor the next week, I'm sure, or
whatever the thought is, that'sno longer that sweet, juicy bit
of connection moment and so youcan savor it, just to keep in
mind and to tuck it away in yourheart that this moment happened
and to be able to notice andname that meant something to you
and maybe you do feel a littlebit sad that you've lost it in
that moment and to remindyourself with as much love and
(12:15):
compassion as you can find foryourself that it will happen
again and you can be gratefulthat you got to experience it
when you did.
And there are ways to create alittle bit of space, both to
acknowledge the gratitude andthe joy of having had it and
also the sadness or loss for itending.
I will also say that Ipersonally take a lot of
pictures of life.
I take a lot of pictures offlowers and sunsets and the
(12:39):
clouds and beautiful things thatI find, and I also take a lot
of pictures when I'm doingsomething fun with people that I
love and that I enjoy beingaround.
I love when my memories pop upor I love going back in my
photos.
I love printing out photos andbeing able to see them and have
those available, and there areways for me to hold onto
connections, either when they'renot currently available to me
(13:00):
or when those moments have endedand I've moved on to a
different place, but I can stillhold them very present in my
heart and in my mind and I canliterally see them whenever I
want to, which, for me, can bevery helpful.
So that's an option to be ableto maintain some of those
connections, even when they'renot quite available to you in
the way you'd like them to be.
Taking a step towards breath canalso be an incredibly positive
(13:23):
and helpful tool ofself-regulation and being able
to lift us out of that dorsal orthat depressed stuckness.
Now I will say that this is avery individual thing, and
you'll notice that I say thatoften, probably even in this
episode and certainly in otherepisodes, because everyone's
nervous system is different.
We all have a nervous systemand it is constructed in the
(13:44):
same hierarchy, with dorsalbeing at the bottom and then
that sympathetic fight or flightbeing in the middle, and then
at the top of the hierarchy, theventral, calm, safe, grounded
experience that we can have.
But what our nervous systemresponds to, and how it responds
, what are cues of danger, whatare cues of safety?
That's different for everybody,as I'm talking about breath.
(14:05):
Breath work and meditation canwork for many people.
However, if you try it and itdoesn't work for you, that
doesn't mean that there'ssomething wrong with you.
It just means that particularthing isn't a good fit for your
system.
So I really want to say that,because I think that there can
be a thought of meditation issomething that everyone should
do, and while for me, meditationis a very helpful thing and I
(14:25):
notice a strong difference in mynervous system if I fall off of
having my daily practice, Iknow that that's not true for
everybody, and so I reallyencourage you to stay attuned to
what your system is telling youabout something and to keep in
mind that if one thing doesn'twork for you now, maybe it'll
never be quite the right fit, ormaybe it's just not quite the
right fit right now.
So perhaps another time, if youfeel drawn to it, maybe you
(14:47):
might try it again.
So as you play with your breathand breath, work and meditation
, I will offer you a fewthoughts that you can try out
and see if they're a good fitfor you or if they feel helpful
to you in any way.
So before I offer some specifictools about breath, I will
invite you to think about whatdysregulated breath feels like.
And so if you imagine whathappens to your breathing when
(15:10):
you're in a sympathetic state ora fight or flight mode, your
breathing gets quicker, kind oflike.
If you imagine running, youknow, like breathing in that
heavy, rapid way.
And if you think about more ofa dorsal collapse state, the
breathing isn't fast and rapidbut it may be much more shallow,
much more slow, like almostbarely breathing, very quiet.
(15:31):
Usually sympathetic breath isaudible, you can hear it, but
dorsal breath might be almostsilent, there may be very little
movement of the chest, theremay even be pauses in your
breath.
So if you think about whatdysregulated breath looks like
either that fight or flightrapid breath or that dorsal,
slower, barely breathing, almostkind of breath.
Those are generally the kindsof breath we want to avoid.
(15:54):
There are certain strategiesthat I won't talk about today
that consciously use more rapidbreath to upregulate our systems
and to kind of pull energy in,but that those are very specific
things for very specificpurposes that need to be used
with caution and care.
Certainly they could be helpfulfor certain people, but I won't
be reviewing any of those.
And also, slow, quiet breathingcould be helpful for certain
(16:16):
people in certain situations.
But think about dysregulatedbreathing.
As you're thinking and noticingwhat feels like regulating
breath for you, what feels likeit's grounding and perhaps
calming.
But your breath also might justbe something for you to focus
on.
That's in the present moment.
So it brings you into your body, it brings you into yourself,
it brings you into your system,it brings you into the here and
(16:38):
now, and sometimes that's thepower of breathwork.
It's not about necessarilymanipulating your breath to do a
certain thing, although there'smany tools out there that can
be helpful that do have you morethan just notice and name how
you're breathing which is apresencing activity into making
your breath do something like abox breath, like breathing in
for four and holding for fourand breathing out for four
(16:58):
seconds and holding and kind ofdoing that pattern.
That can be a very helpful toolfor a lot of people dealing
with anxiety.
Sometimes people like beingable to control and count their
breath.
Other people find thatdysregulating.
So try it out and see whatworks for you.
Since we're talking about tryingto lift ourselves out of some
dorsal stuckness and be able tomove into some sort of action
(17:19):
and take steps, we might thinkabout breath that helps invite
some of the sympathetic energy,not a fight or flight energy,
that rapid breathing, but beingable to take a deep, long inhale
, and that can be energizing forsome of us us not in a
hyperventilating sort of way.
(17:40):
There are practices that docreate energy using those kinds
of things, but again those arespecial techniques that should
be learned well and done andpracticed with great care.
But for us, something like evena sigh can really help us get
some movement going and someenergy going to support movement
in a way that's much lessstructured, far from a regular
(18:03):
meditation practice, but can behighly effective.
So, thinking about the inhaleconversely, if you take an
inhale and then you allow a deep, long, slow exhale, kind of
like, and then that can becalming and grounding.
You'll have to play with thisto see where you're at and where
(18:24):
your nervous system is at, anddo you need to be calmed and
regulated?
Does that feel nourishing andhelpful, or do you want to have
a little bit more of anenergizing breath and so you can
kind of play with some of thesethings around breath work.
And regarding meditation, I willalso say I myself practice 20
minutes daily Most days.
I try for every day.
Occasionally I miss a day.
(18:45):
But you don't need a full 20minute practice or 30 minute
practice or beyond to meditate.
Even if you try a 90 secondmeditation or a five minute
meditation.
You can start there and see ifthat works.
In my meditation timer app Ihave a five minute meditation.
You can start there and see ifthat works.
In my meditation timer app Ihave a five minute preset that's
called something is better,because I needed to remind
myself that even if I only havefive minutes, something is
(19:09):
better than nothing.
And for me it was very true,because I can sometimes fall
into a very black or whitepattern of thinking and if I
can't do my full 20 minutes,then I don't do any meditation
at all, and I found that thatwas not really helpful, because
if I skipped a meditation daybecause I couldn't do a full 20
minutes, sometimes I would skipmore than one day, I would skip
several days and sometimes Iwould even fall off my
meditation practice altogetherjust because I refuse to do less
(19:32):
than 20 minutes.
So I reminded myself thatsometimes five minutes is enough
, and for me it really is and soI encourage you to think about
meditation in that way that youdon't have to have what you
think is the right, correct,full practice of meditation.
You can have what practice ofmeditation feels good for you
and then it's your practice, andI think that that's probably
the best kind of practice that Icould recommend that you have.
(19:54):
Other ways to play with breathare by humming or chanting or
singing in some way, that sortof thing, and those might be
more accessible and you can playwith the speed and kind of the
cadence and see what feels goodvibrating in your chest.
I really like to listen tomusic where I can put my hand on
my heart and I can feel thevibration of the music, the bass
(20:17):
in my heart or the vibration ofchanting.
That's something that I findvery regulating for myself.
So I encourage you to thinkabout breath work in a wider way
perhaps than maybe you alreadydo, but really play with breath
and let it be what works for youand have a few different
possibilities of things thatyou've tried that work, but know
(20:37):
that whatever your system needstoday might be a little bit
different than what it neededbefore, and so you might have to
keep playing with it and seewhat really works for you in any
particular moment.
I think I'm going to pause herefor today.
I've covered several ideas forhow you may choose to take a
step towards connection ortowards some sort of breath work
.
I encourage you to tune intoyour system to know when one of
(20:59):
these steps may be helpful foryou, and please remember to play
with what works for you andaccept.
When something may not be quitethe right fit, it's okay.
There's plenty of other optionsfor you to try.
Honoring your nervous system isreally quite an important part
of this process, and in the nextepisode I will continue to talk
about possible steps that youmay take that could feel
(21:20):
nourishing and may help continueto lift you out of the
stuckness of depression,disconnection or feeling like
you're just going through themotions.
I hope you tune in again nextweek to hear more.
As our time comes to a close.
I ask you to keep listening forjust a few more moments,
because I want to thank you forshowing up today and I want to
(21:41):
leave you with an invitation asyou hit stop and move back out
into the world on your ownunique wellness journey In order
to move from where you aretoday to the place where you
want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
(22:01):
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
(22:24):
it could be a step youvisualize taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
(22:48):
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
(23:08):
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you feeling stuck indepression or sort of numbed out
, going through the motions dayto day?
Are you longing for somethingmore for yourself, for your life
and for your relationship, butyou just can't seem to find your
way?
If this is you, please knowthat you're not alone.
Getting unstuck can be toughand I invite you to tune in to
(00:23):
today's episode for somespecific ideas for how to
determine what next step reallymakes sense for you, so you can
create the path to where youreally want to be.
I'm your host, trish Sanders.
Let's get started.
This episode is a follow-up tothe last one, in which I
discussed the invitation to takea step that I include each week
(00:45):
in my outro.
I wanted to address somespecific ideas of what could
feel supportive and helpful forsomeone as they start to take
steps to move out of adepressive episode, or even when
it's not a fully diagnosabledepression, steps that someone
can take to help them move outof a state of collapse or
withdrawal or that kind ofnumbed out going through the
(01:07):
motions way that some of us gothrough our days.
If you relate to any of theseexperiences, this means that you
very well are somebody whosenervous system is probably stuck
in what is called the dorsalvagal state, that is, the shut
down, collapsed, protectyourself by disappearing state
of our nervous system.
It's a survival response and italso has very many functional
(01:30):
aspects to it as well, and ifyou listened to the last episode
, you may recall that there arebiological reasons that the
process of getting unstuck mightactually be slower than we
would like it to be,particularly when your nervous
system is stuck in a very deepdorsal experience or that very
deeply depressed place.
So please, as I talk to youabout taking steps, keep in mind
(01:52):
that this process might takemore time than you expect it to
or than you hope it will.
If you're not quite so deep inthe dorsal experience, you may
find that you have more abilityto access seemingly bigger steps
, or you might be able to takemore than one step at a time, or
you might find that you may beable to build momentum more
quickly.
It's a very individualexperience and there is no one
(02:16):
right way.
So please stay attuned toyourself and try to keep
reaching for self-compassion,cheer yourself on for the steps
that you intend to take, thatyou imagine yourself taking and,
of course, any steps thatyou're able to take and make
some movement forward.
One kind of step that can beincredibly valuable is taking a
step towards connection.
(02:37):
But connection can be a bittricky because for many people,
being in connection has beenhurtful or harmful or
threatening.
Being in relationship has beenthe place where we have been
hurt, and so reaching out forconnection may not feel safe or
available to us, and so I reallyinvite you to think about what
(02:57):
kind of connecting feels safefor you.
And it might be that you don'thave a specific person in mind
that you feel like you can reachout to, but perhaps you have a
pet that you really love andfeel really comforted by, and
there is research about howmammal to mammal nervous systems
connect to one another and canco-regulate.
We can receive and give cues ofsafety and have that comfort
(03:19):
and connection that we want withother mammalian nervous systems
.
So of course, that's like humanto cat or human to dog or
something like that.
But I will say that if you havea lizard or a snake or some
non-mammal pet that you feelconnected to and it works for
you, then absolutely startreaching for connection.
There you also can connect withnature and be outside or look
(03:42):
out the window or even look atpictures or videos of nature.
You can really think about whatkind of connection feels safe
for you and what feels availableto you, and you can start there
.
I will point out that if you'rein a romantic relationship that
feels like it's dysregulated alot of the time whether that
means that you or your partneror both of you, frequently move
(04:03):
into dysregulation.
So in other words, that meansif one of you feels emotionally
unsafe for whatever reason,you're in an argument, a
conflict of some sort, orthere's a lot of tension between
the two of you so your nervoussystem reads cues of danger in
your romantic relationship andso you go into a survival state,
whether that is a dorsalcollapse, withdrawal, shutdown
(04:24):
or a sympathetic fight or flightresponse.
That's what I mean when I sayif you're in a relationship
that's frequently dysregulated.
If that applies to you rightnow, then it may be true for you
that in many moments, movingtowards the connection of your
relationship may not feel likethe most accessible or safest
option, and that's okay.
It just might mean that youhave some work to do and you can
(04:45):
reach out to connect with a petor with nature or another
friend or family member whereconnection does feel safer and
more accessible to you.
And as you continue to work onyourself, you can then work on
your relationship and work oncreating a safer, more available
connection with your romanticpartner.
And I will also add thatsometimes just being around
(05:06):
people, whether you know them ornot, can feel like a safe
connection.
So that might be going to abench in a sort of crowded or
semi-crowded park and just kindof feeling the energy of people
being playful and having a nicetime around you.
That also has an added benefitpotentially of being around
nature.
If you're somewhere beautifulwith some nice trees or flowers
(05:27):
or a lake or something like that, that can be a very connecting
experience.
Or it could even be walkingaround a store and just feeling
the energy of the people in thestore.
For some people that's a reallyhelpful and available place of
connection.
That may be less threateningthan reaching out to somebody
who you know really well, wherepotentially there might be a
more of a fear of abandonment orrejection or something like
(05:50):
that.
So connection can look a lot ofdifferent ways and I really
encourage you to check in withyourself and see what connection
feels like for you and that'sthe only right answer is what
connection feels like to yoursystem.
That's really what we'relooking for here and in all of
the steps what feels like justthe right fit for you in a
particular moment, because whatyour nervous system may need
(06:11):
right now may be very differentfrom what your nervous system
needs an hour from now or nextweek or next month.
Now, if you do find somebodythat feels like a safe enough
connection, you can play witheye contact to see if that feels
safe and accessible and again,it might not for some people,
and that's okay.
But if it does, if you canreally look at them and see that
(06:31):
there's this other nervoussystem that's present with you,
and if your nervous system canreally allow that to be able to
receive that message, that canfoster a great connection.
And I will also say here thatsometimes that kind of
connection is actually moreavailable when words are not
present.
I am a very big words person andso if I'm sitting across my
(06:53):
partner imagine like sitting atdinner or something like that
and we're looking at each other,I have a strong tendency to
want to talk and fill the spacebetween us with words, because I
find words connecting andsometimes my partner does as
well, but a lot of the time hewill actually be overwhelmed, or
perhaps how I'm sending wordsmight come off as threatening or
(07:14):
disconnecting for him.
And I have truly learned overthe last I would say decade that
connection between people witheye contact, without words, can
actually be far safer and areally satisfying experience of
connection.
So I would refer to that asgazing.
You might call it somethingelse, but if you just imagine
sitting across from your partnerand just looking at them with
(07:37):
warmth and love, without havingto say anything but really being
able to have your nervoussystem send this message of I
love you, you matter to me,you're good enough, I'm happier
in my life those sorts ofmessages and to be able to give
and hopefully also be open toreceive those messages can be an
(07:58):
extraordinarily connectingexperience and it's a really
wonderful place in romanticrelationship to work on.
Sometimes, when words can bethreatening or scary or cause
more conflict or more argument,you can kind of build that safe
connection in that place so thatyou can increase your ability
to have safer conversations andmove into things that feel a
(08:19):
little bit more threatening,emotionally speaking.
You can have those kinds ofconversations but you don't have
to sacrifice the connection.
But sometimes you just have tolose some of the words, which
for me has been difficult attimes to do.
But I've also seen the payoff,and when I can remember to quiet
down a little bit in the nameof creating a safe space between
my partner and I, it really cango a long way towards creating
(08:41):
the feeling in the relationshipI really want to have.
If you happen to find yourselfconnecting with somebody, making
eye contact or not, maybe justenjoying each other, telling a
funny joke, sharing funnystories, and if you can find
yourself laughing together.
You don't have to force this tohappen, but if you find that
you're in safe connection,you're able to laugh and have
(09:01):
that kind of enjoyment and thatlevel of connection, that's a
really beautiful thing and Iwould encourage you to notice
that and savor that like oh,this is what it feels like to
share laughter.
That's a deeply connectingexperience and you don't have to
go into some quote unquote deepconversations necessarily.
They could be very, very lighthearted.
(09:21):
This is another place where myhusband has much more strength
in this area and he can oftenbring lightness and he can often
bring lightness into asituation or try to bring
lightness into a situation, andsometimes my nervous system does
receive that as a threat, likeare you not taking this
seriously?
What's going on here?
But when I can regulate myselfand recognize that my husband is
trying to connect throughlightness, through humor,
(09:43):
through joy, and if I can allowmyself to connect on that level
again, it can be a much safer,more accessible type of
connecting and it also can setthe stage for us being able to
move into perhaps a conversation.
Again.
Words are connecting for me,talking about conflict or how do
we figure things out that canfeel very connecting to me but
can feel threatening to mypartner sometimes.
(10:04):
And so we can kind of work ondifferent levels of connection.
And so I do offer you to noticethose beautiful moments of eye
contact, notice those beautifulmoments of shared laughter.
They matter just as much, andperhaps maybe even more in some
ways, to our nervous system andto our connection than talking
about the hard things.
We need tools to talk about thehard things a lot of the time,
(10:26):
but sharing a sweet gaze or agenuine laugh is not something
we necessarily need tools for atall, but it is something that
we do sometimes need to slowdown and allow for.
So I really encourage you tothink about connecting in these
kinds of ways, especially withyour romantic partner, but with
anybody who you feel safe toconnect with.
These are great opportunitiesfor connection.
(10:47):
I will also put a little bit ofa warning that if you find
yourself having had a connection, a successful connection that
felt safe and enjoyable, andthen that moment is over, the
person leaves and it could justbe that they leave the room or,
you know, you end the FaceTimecall or they actually go home,
if you don't live with them,that kind of thing.
But if your time of connectioncomes to a close and you notice
(11:09):
that you felt uplifted by theconnection, but now you notice
that you're falling back downinto dorsal again because you're
experiencing a loss of thatconnection, I will just say that
this is certainly possible andit can be expected.
It's not always the case, butit doesn't mean that anything is
wrong.
It actually means that theconnection was something that
felt nourishing and feltpositive and good to your system
(11:30):
and you're missing it andperhaps you're worried that
you're not going to be able toget it back.
So if this is the case, Ireally encourage you to try to
savor that connecting moment andhold that in your heart.
Savoring officially in polyvagaltheory is actually only holding
on to that experience for up to30 seconds, and it could be
just a few seconds three, four,five, six seconds until the
thought comes like, oh, but Iwon't see them again for a while
(11:53):
, or you know, we'll be arguingfor the next week, I'm sure, or
whatever the thought is, that'sno longer that sweet, juicy bit
of connection moment and so youcan savor it, just to keep in
mind and to tuck it away in yourheart that this moment happened
and to be able to notice andname that meant something to you
and maybe you do feel a littlebit sad that you've lost it in
that moment and to remindyourself with as much love and
(12:15):
compassion as you can find foryourself that it will happen
again and you can be gratefulthat you got to experience it
when you did.
And there are ways to create alittle bit of space, both to
acknowledge the gratitude andthe joy of having had it and
also the sadness or loss for itending.
I will also say that Ipersonally take a lot of
pictures of life.
I take a lot of pictures offlowers and sunsets and the
(12:39):
clouds and beautiful things thatI find, and I also take a lot
of pictures when I'm doingsomething fun with people that I
love and that I enjoy beingaround.
I love when my memories pop upor I love going back in my
photos.
I love printing out photos andbeing able to see them and have
those available, and there areways for me to hold onto
connections, either when they'renot currently available to me
(13:00):
or when those moments have endedand I've moved on to a
different place, but I can stillhold them very present in my
heart and in my mind and I canliterally see them whenever I
want to, which, for me, can bevery helpful.
So that's an option to be ableto maintain some of those
connections, even when they'renot quite available to you in
the way you'd like them to be.
Taking a step towards breath canalso be an incredibly positive
(13:23):
and helpful tool ofself-regulation and being able
to lift us out of that dorsal orthat depressed stuckness.
Now I will say that this is avery individual thing, and
you'll notice that I say thatoften, probably even in this
episode and certainly in otherepisodes, because everyone's
nervous system is different.
We all have a nervous systemand it is constructed in the
(13:44):
same hierarchy, with dorsalbeing at the bottom and then
that sympathetic fight or flightbeing in the middle, and then
at the top of the hierarchy, theventral, calm, safe, grounded
experience that we can have.
But what our nervous systemresponds to, and how it responds
, what are cues of danger, whatare cues of safety?
That's different for everybody,as I'm talking about breath.
(14:05):
Breath work and meditation canwork for many people.
However, if you try it and itdoesn't work for you, that
doesn't mean that there'ssomething wrong with you.
It just means that particularthing isn't a good fit for your
system.
So I really want to say that,because I think that there can
be a thought of meditation issomething that everyone should
do, and while for me, meditationis a very helpful thing and I
(14:25):
notice a strong difference in mynervous system if I fall off of
having my daily practice, Iknow that that's not true for
everybody, and so I reallyencourage you to stay attuned to
what your system is telling youabout something and to keep in
mind that if one thing doesn'twork for you now, maybe it'll
never be quite the right fit, ormaybe it's just not quite the
right fit right now.
So perhaps another time, if youfeel drawn to it, maybe you
(14:47):
might try it again.
So as you play with your breathand breath, work and meditation
, I will offer you a fewthoughts that you can try out
and see if they're a good fitfor you or if they feel helpful
to you in any way.
So before I offer some specifictools about breath, I will
invite you to think about whatdysregulated breath feels like.
And so if you imagine whathappens to your breathing when
(15:10):
you're in a sympathetic state ora fight or flight mode, your
breathing gets quicker, kind oflike.
If you imagine running, youknow, like breathing in that
heavy, rapid way.
And if you think about more ofa dorsal collapse state, the
breathing isn't fast and rapidbut it may be much more shallow,
much more slow, like almostbarely breathing, very quiet.
(15:31):
Usually sympathetic breath isaudible, you can hear it, but
dorsal breath might be almostsilent, there may be very little
movement of the chest, theremay even be pauses in your
breath.
So if you think about whatdysregulated breath looks like
either that fight or flightrapid breath or that dorsal,
slower, barely breathing, almostkind of breath.
Those are generally the kindsof breath we want to avoid.
(15:54):
There are certain strategiesthat I won't talk about today
that consciously use more rapidbreath to upregulate our systems
and to kind of pull energy in,but that those are very specific
things for very specificpurposes that need to be used
with caution and care.
Certainly they could be helpfulfor certain people, but I won't
be reviewing any of those.
And also, slow, quiet breathingcould be helpful for certain
(16:16):
people in certain situations.
But think about dysregulatedbreathing.
As you're thinking and noticingwhat feels like regulating
breath for you, what feels likeit's grounding and perhaps
calming.
But your breath also might justbe something for you to focus
on.
That's in the present moment.
So it brings you into your body, it brings you into yourself,
it brings you into your system,it brings you into the here and
(16:38):
now, and sometimes that's thepower of breathwork.
It's not about necessarilymanipulating your breath to do a
certain thing, although there'smany tools out there that can
be helpful that do have you morethan just notice and name how
you're breathing which is apresencing activity into making
your breath do something like abox breath, like breathing in
for four and holding for fourand breathing out for four
(16:58):
seconds and holding and kind ofdoing that pattern.
That can be a very helpful toolfor a lot of people dealing
with anxiety.
Sometimes people like beingable to control and count their
breath.
Other people find thatdysregulating.
So try it out and see whatworks for you.
Since we're talking about tryingto lift ourselves out of some
dorsal stuckness and be able tomove into some sort of action
(17:19):
and take steps, we might thinkabout breath that helps invite
some of the sympathetic energy,not a fight or flight energy,
that rapid breathing, but beingable to take a deep, long inhale
, and that can be energizing forsome of us us not in a
hyperventilating sort of way.
(17:40):
There are practices that docreate energy using those kinds
of things, but again those arespecial techniques that should
be learned well and done andpracticed with great care.
But for us, something like evena sigh can really help us get
some movement going and someenergy going to support movement
in a way that's much lessstructured, far from a regular
(18:03):
meditation practice, but can behighly effective.
So, thinking about the inhaleconversely, if you take an
inhale and then you allow a deep, long, slow exhale, kind of
like, and then that can becalming and grounding.
You'll have to play with thisto see where you're at and where
(18:24):
your nervous system is at, anddo you need to be calmed and
regulated?
Does that feel nourishing andhelpful, or do you want to have
a little bit more of anenergizing breath and so you can
kind of play with some of thesethings around breath work.
And regarding meditation, I willalso say I myself practice 20
minutes daily Most days.
I try for every day.
Occasionally I miss a day.
(18:45):
But you don't need a full 20minute practice or 30 minute
practice or beyond to meditate.
Even if you try a 90 secondmeditation or a five minute
meditation.
You can start there and see ifthat works.
In my meditation timer app Ihave a five minute meditation.
You can start there and see ifthat works.
In my meditation timer app Ihave a five minute preset that's
called something is better,because I needed to remind
myself that even if I only havefive minutes, something is
(19:09):
better than nothing.
And for me it was very true,because I can sometimes fall
into a very black or whitepattern of thinking and if I
can't do my full 20 minutes,then I don't do any meditation
at all, and I found that thatwas not really helpful, because
if I skipped a meditation daybecause I couldn't do a full 20
minutes, sometimes I would skipmore than one day, I would skip
several days and sometimes Iwould even fall off my
meditation practice altogetherjust because I refuse to do less
(19:32):
than 20 minutes.
So I reminded myself thatsometimes five minutes is enough
, and for me it really is and soI encourage you to think about
meditation in that way that youdon't have to have what you
think is the right, correct,full practice of meditation.
You can have what practice ofmeditation feels good for you
and then it's your practice, andI think that that's probably
the best kind of practice that Icould recommend that you have.
(19:54):
Other ways to play with breathare by humming or chanting or
singing in some way, that sortof thing, and those might be
more accessible and you can playwith the speed and kind of the
cadence and see what feels goodvibrating in your chest.
I really like to listen tomusic where I can put my hand on
my heart and I can feel thevibration of the music, the bass
(20:17):
in my heart or the vibration ofchanting.
That's something that I findvery regulating for myself.
So I encourage you to thinkabout breath work in a wider way
perhaps than maybe you alreadydo, but really play with breath
and let it be what works for youand have a few different
possibilities of things thatyou've tried that work, but know
(20:37):
that whatever your system needstoday might be a little bit
different than what it neededbefore, and so you might have to
keep playing with it and seewhat really works for you in any
particular moment.
I think I'm going to pause herefor today.
I've covered several ideas forhow you may choose to take a
step towards connection ortowards some sort of breath work
.
I encourage you to tune intoyour system to know when one of
(20:59):
these steps may be helpful foryou, and please remember to play
with what works for you andaccept.
When something may not be quitethe right fit, it's okay.
There's plenty of other optionsfor you to try.
Honoring your nervous system isreally quite an important part
of this process, and in the nextepisode I will continue to talk
about possible steps that youmay take that could feel
(21:20):
nourishing and may help continueto lift you out of the
stuckness of depression,disconnection or feeling like
you're just going through themotions.
I hope you tune in again nextweek to hear more.
As our time comes to a close.
I ask you to keep listening forjust a few more moments,
because I want to thank you forshowing up today and I want to
(21:41):
leave you with an invitation asyou hit stop and move back out
into the world on your ownunique wellness journey In order
to move from where you aretoday to the place where you
want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
(22:01):
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
(22:24):
it could be a step youvisualize taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
(22:48):
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
(23:08):
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
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