June 4, 2025 • 25 mins
Depression can trap us in an exhausting cycle of waiting for better days that rarely last. We feel stuck, disconnected, and increasingly hopeless as we search for the magical formula that will finally break us free. But what if moving forward doesn't require having it all figured out first? What if the key lies not in grand plans but in learning to take one attuned step at a time?
Your nervous system holds profound wisdom about what you truly need in any moment. When we feel depressed or detached, our biology is signaling that we're in a protective survival state called dorsal – the freeze response. This isn't failure or weakness; it's your body's brilliant adaptation to perceived threats. Understanding this connection between depression and your nervous system removes shame and offers a compassionate pathway forward.
Hope itself emerges naturally when our nervous system feels safe enough to imagine positive possibilities. Rather than forcing positivity, we can gently move along what I call the "steps of hope" – from simply wondering if change is possible to eventually feeling confident that good things are coming. By tuning into what your system actually needs right now – whether that's rest, safe connection, movement, or a manageable action – you empower yourself to take steps that feel authentic rather than forced.
The freedom comes in realizing you don't need to have the whole journey mapped out. Each small, attuned step creates safety, builds confidence, and gradually illuminates the next part of your path. This approach has transformed my relationship with depression, replacing struggle with understanding and compassion. While it won't eliminate all suffering (we're still human!), it provides a reliable way to respond when you feel stuck, detached, or overwhelmed.
I invite you to experiment with this "take a step" approach. Listen deeply to what your nervous system is telling you. Honor its wisdom rather than pushing through based on "shoulds." With practice and compassion, you may be amazed at how this simple framework can help you move from that stuck place toward a more hopeful, connected life – even when depression is in your bed.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you feeling lost or stuckin the monotony of your
day-to-day?
Do you often find yourselffeeling kind of numb or checked
out, like you think there mustbe more to life than this, but
you just don't know a way to getthere?
If you relate, please join metoday in talking about how to
take steps that can move you andyour life into a more hopeful,
(00:25):
connected, satisfying place.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am so glad that you're
here.
Let's get started.
Whether you identify as beingjust a little depressed, or
maybe more than a littledepressed, if you know what it
feels like to be in that stuck,detached, disconnected place,
you may also know how hard itcan feel to get out of that
(00:46):
place, and if you're like me,maybe you've spent a lot of time
waiting for a better day,things to be easier, or maybe
just for the stars and theplanets to align in a particular
way so that you can reallystart to feel better.
In my experience, though,waiting like that can end up
taking forever, or what feelslike forever, and you can end up
feeling pretty stuck for areally long time, and it can be
(01:09):
really disempowering, and whenthat better day finally does
come which inevitably a betterday does come at some point it
often doesn't last long, or itdoesn't feel like it lasts long
enough, given how long you hadto wait for it, and then it can
be a quick and painful fall fromfeeling okay enough to feeling
not so okay at all.
That's why leaving it to chancemay not be the best strategy,
(01:31):
but if you don't know anotherway, then you're very likely
going to stay feeling stuck.
Through my own experiences, Ihave found that tuning into
myself and into my nervoussystem and actually asking what
do I really need in this momenthas really been helpful in
guiding me about what directionI need to go and what step I
need to take to be able to getme out of that stuckness, that
(01:53):
numbness, that detached feeling.
And so I have been practicingtaking a step of any size, in
any direction, in any way thatmakes sense to me, and you can
take a step towards rest or safeconnection or playfulness or
movement or some type of actionthat may feel more manageable
for you, and empowering yourselfto figure out what is a step
(02:14):
that you actually connect to,what's a step that your system
and your body and your authenticyou really wants to do, and
figuring out what kind of stepactually makes sense to you can
empower you to be able toactually begin moving from that
stuck place, and it can be atruly transformative experience.
And that's what I've beentalking about over the last few
episodes and I will continuetalking about today, and I'm
(02:37):
going to start off with the ideaof taking a step towards
feeling hope, and if thinkingabout feeling hopeful feels hard
in some way, like you findyourself feeling hopeless, or
hope doesn't really feel like anoption for you, I really invite
you to stay with me and see ifyou connect to anything that I
share.
And I do want to start off byjust talking briefly about your
(02:57):
nervous system and why hope canfeel so out of reach for some of
us sometimes, and so I'vetalked about this before in
other episodes and you'rewelcome to go and dive back into
some of that or research it onyour own.
But the short mini nervoussystem lesson is that our
nervous system has three statesthat it can be in.
One is a state of safety, andthat's called ventral, and the
other two are survival states.
(03:19):
One is called your sympatheticstate, which is your fight or
flight response.
It's mobilized response tothreat.
Something threatening ishappening to me, so I have to
respond, I have to do somethingabout it.
And we also have dorsal, whichis the freeze response, and it
is something is happening that'sthreatening, but I don't have
the resources or the ability tofight it.
I can't do anything about it,so I have to shut down in order
(03:40):
to protect myself.
I have to collapse or withdrawor hide or be invisible for
safety, and so when someone'snervous system is in dorsal,
they also may be experiencingwhat we might call depression or
that feeling of being detachedor going through the motions,
that kind of thing.
And here is something that Ifind to be completely amazing.
But how we experience the worldis connected to the state of
(04:01):
your nervous system, so thatmeans the way you perceive
things is totally dependent onthe state your nervous system is
in.
If you're interested in moreinformation on that, you can
check out one of my earlierepisodes, including Beyond
Diagnosis and UnderstandingDepression Through the Nervous
System, and there's also a lotof great information out there
about polyvagal theory, whichwe'll also talk about this as
(04:22):
well.
So the feeling of hope is what'scalled an emergent quality of
the ventral state of yournervous system.
So this basically means that wecan only experience hope when
our nervous system feels safe,and this is because having hope
requires us to have a sense thatthings are possible,
particularly in a good, positiveway, and it also means that we
(04:44):
have the ability to think aboutthe future, again in a positive
way.
And in order to be able to dothis, our nervous system needs
to be able to feel safe, so wehave access to our thinking and
feeling abilities, because whenwe are in a survival mode, we
lose access to those abilitiesbecause our nervous system is
only concerned with survival,and survival is about what do I
(05:07):
have to do right now, in thismoment, in order to survive this
threat?
And it is not helpful toimagine a positive outcome in a
future that we haven't yetexperienced, because it can
actually be a distraction andend up threatening our ability
to survive, and our nervoussystem is very good at surviving
, and so it doesn't allow us tothink and feel in this kind of
(05:30):
hopeful way.
So if you think about driving acar down a highway, and if a
car cuts you off, it's notbeneficial for you to really be
thinking, oh, I hope nothing badhappens or I hope everybody's
okay, because then you would bedistracted by the thought of
wishing that things will be okayrather than being able to act
very quickly and being able toturn the wheel or jam on the
(05:51):
brakes.
And so this is how our survivalresponse works and it's very
effective for survival.
And it's important tounderstand this, because you
might not be able to convinceyourself to be hopeful using
your thoughts, but if youunderstand your nervous system,
you can begin to gently andcompassionately get your system
into a greater feeling of safety.
(06:12):
And then, because ourperception of the world is
attached to our nervous systemstate, when we have more of that
ventral, safe, connected, calmexperience in our nervous system
, hope may start to emerge, andthat's what I mean by emergent
quality.
Hope can emerge when ournervous system feels safe.
(06:32):
In previous episodes I havetalked about the steps of
depression, which is what I callthe spectrum of depressed
feelings, from the deepest,darkest depression that someone
can experience, all the way upto going through the motions,
being mildly disinterested inlife or just not really feeling
engaged or joyfully connectedday to day.
And so there's a spectrum ofall those different steps, from
(06:55):
the most severe depression to amuch more mild depression or
disconnection, and I think that,using that idea of the steps,
the continuum or the spectrum ofdepression, I think that
concept can be really helpfulwhen we think about how to take
a step towards hope,particularly when it feels
really hard.
And so I invite you to imaginewhat I would call the steps of
(07:17):
hope.
And so I invite you to imaginewhat I would call the steps of
hope, and perhaps the top ofthat staircase would be fully
expecting that things are goingto go well or good things are
coming your way, they're justaround the corner, and feeling
really confident in thatexperience.
And that might feel totallyunavailable to you, like a total
fantasy, and that's totallyokay if that's not the step that
(07:38):
you're on.
But if you imagine coming down astep, maybe it would be
optimistically hoping thatthings will get better or
believing that it's possible forthings to get better.
And then maybe, if you go downanother step, perhaps it would
be wishing or longing for thingsto improve in some way.
And maybe, if you went downanother step, perhaps that would
look like curiosity, thatasking yourself could things
(08:00):
ever be better?
Is that an option for you?
Is that something that'spossible for you?
And maybe towards one of thelower steps on the staircase, it
would just be wondering ifchange is possible, if change
really happens in the world,kind of thing like.
Is change something that isaccessible to you, and just sort
of wondering about it and foryour staircase of hope?
(08:20):
Each step might feel a littlebit different.
It's unique to you, but just togive you an idea of what the
different steps of hope couldlook like the different spectrum
of full hopefulness all the waydown to even just a desire to
feel hopeful, I would say.
And so if you think about it,you can tune in and see if any
of those concepts resonate withyour nervous system right now,
(08:42):
in this moment.
So it doesn't matter whatyou've felt before, because it's
a common experience to think ohwell, I felt hopeful before, I
just don't feel hopeful now.
And it doesn't always feelparticularly helpful to think,
oh well, maybe I'll feel hopefulagain one day.
It depends how you're feelingright now.
So if you tune in to where youare right now, can you access
any of that curiosity, any ofthe wonder, any of that longing,
(09:04):
maybe some hopefulness, maybeeven if your nervous system is
feeling safe in this moment,maybe you can have a sense of
expecting things to be good and,no matter where you are, no
matter what step you're on, youcan just notice and name it,
without judging it or thinkingthat you should be on a
different step, because should,as you'll hear me say many times
, is really just a judgment.
(09:25):
So if you allow yourself tojust be where you are and if
you're on one of the lower steps, know that this is one way that
your nervous system iscommunicating to you and all
it's communicating is that it'snot feeling completely safe.
If hope is not present, thatjust means that your nervous
system is under some kind ofthreatening feeling, and it
(09:45):
might be a real threat or aperceived threat.
It can get very complicatedwhen we don't know why we're
feeling like there's a threatgoing on, like we might
cognitively know oh well, I'mnot really in danger right now.
So what do you mean?
But our nervous system isperceiving something and so we
just need to know that.
Okay, it's just not safe enoughto feel hopeful at this moment.
It does not actually mean youare hopeless.
(10:06):
That could be the story in yourhead.
That could be the story youtell yourself, like I can't feel
hope, I feel hopeless, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean it's
the reality.
The reality is is that that'sjust where your nervous system
is at right now, and we canreally pay attention to that and
use that as a sign to say, oh,actually, now that means I might
need to take a step towardsfeeling some sort of safety,
(10:26):
which I think is another reallyvaluable step, and that can mean
a lot of different things toevery different person.
It could even mean differentthings to the same person in
different moments.
So thinking in terms of thenervous system can be really
powerful, and I will also saythat in this episode I'm
focusing on the individual beingable to take steps and what
steps might be helpful.
That's sort of been the focusof my last few episodes, but I
(10:48):
will be talking in the nextepisode more about how the idea
of taking a step can apply topartners in relationships.
So if you're interested in that, of course you can tune in next
time.
Over the last few episodes Ihave shared different types of
steps that can be helpful and Ihave determined the steps in
part from my own understandingof the nervous system and also
(11:11):
how, given that understanding ofthe nervous system, how I have
experienced and been successfulwith using the idea of taking a
step on my own.
As a matter of fact, I actuallyhad a bracelet made that says
take a step, and I wear it everyday as a reminder to help me
move forward.
When my nervous system is inwhat I would call a sympathetic
spiral, which means when I'm inthat fight or flight mode and
(11:34):
I'm feeling overwhelmed orchaotic and time is moving too
fast and I'm really stressed outbecause I can't get everything
done, or when my dorsal dwellingshows up that's the dorsal
experience of my nervous systemwhen I go into that detached,
disconnected, avoidant shutdownsort of place.
And I've been using this ideaof take a step for a while and
(11:55):
it's been helpful for me and sothat's why I'm sharing it with
you.
Consciously doing things inthese small ways that are not
just small steps but they'rereally attuned to the needs of
my nervous system in a givenmoment has really helped to take
a lot of pressure off for meand that has created a lot of
safety in my own experience,which contributes to my
increased ability to take othersteps.
(12:18):
So the reason it takes pressureoff is because I know that I
don't have to have the wholeplan figured out.
Yet I will tell you that I am aplanner and for many things I
do have a whole plan figured out.
That's really true.
But that's only for certainthings that don't spark a cue of
danger for my nervous system,because there's a lot of things
(12:39):
in my life that I find eitherchallenging or overwhelming or I
don't feel like I know how todo or that trigger some part of
me feeling like not good enoughor incapable and those things
really are huge cues of dangerfor me and my nervous system
ends up often going into thishiding and avoidant place, this
dorsal state, this detached,shut down kind of place, and for
(13:01):
that reason I don't have a planand thinking about even making
a plan can feel reallyoverwhelming and again trigger
that going into avoidance.
And so not having to figure itall out and knowing that I don't
have to figure it all out canfeel really freeing and again is
like a cue of safety for mynervous system that allows me to
(13:22):
take a breath and say, okay, Idon't need to know at all, I
just need to know what the nextstep is.
Because for me there arecertain things where, if I feel
like I have to figure outeverything before I even get
started, I would be totallyfrozen in paralysis, and that
can still happen for me in mynervous system now.
(13:43):
But I've learned to notice whenthat process starts happening
and I've gotten much better atsaying hey, I'm feeling a cue of
danger here, and I noticed thatI'm avoiding something that
feels overwhelming or hard, andI've been able to take steps
that feel safe and manageabletowards being able to break
those things down, and it's beenreally, really liberating for
me.
So I love the idea of taking astep because it allows me to
(14:06):
move without having to knoweverything, and it also allows
me to have a sense of agency andI can feel capable, like I'm
doing something, which a lot ofthe time, when you're depressed,
people are saying like whydon't you just do something?
Just do anything.
Doing something is better thandoing nothing, which is true.
But a lot of that comes with aside of judgment, whether it's
judgment from other people, evenif it's loving people or
(14:27):
self-judgment, and this take astep idea again with
understanding of the nervoussystem behind it really takes
out the judgment.
It's like well, my nervoussystem is receiving a cue of
danger.
So I have to honor that.
I have to do something to helpme feel safe, and thinking about
the whole big thing feels liketoo much.
So let me just see what part ofthis feels accessible, what
part of this feels safe anddoable.
(14:48):
And if you're a person who feelssafe having big goals and
making objectives and having bigplans, then that's awesome and
there's nothing wrong with that.
That's actually wonderful ifyou have that skill and
sometimes I can access thatskill.
But it all depends on the stateof my nervous system.
And if something lands assomething safe for me, then I
can go ahead and make that bigplan and I can follow through
and often it feels like there'sa lot of ease, like I feel like
(15:09):
I'm in flow, like oh, I'm doingthis, it feels good, I feel
productive, I feel proud ofmyself.
But when something lands as athreat for me, then that
capacity that I have sometimessometimes is not available to me
.
So if you're somebody who doesfeel overwhelmed by looking at
the whole big picture and itfeels like too much to have it
all figured out, know that youdon't have to.
It can actually be far morehelpful to tune into your
(15:31):
nervous system and think what doI really need here, what is the
step that feels accessible tome?
And to move one step at a time.
And if you stay attuned and youstay compassionate and you
don't judge the size of yoursteps or the type of step that
you take, and things like that,you can actually start to piece
together a whole little path intime by taking one step and then
(15:54):
another and then another andthen another, and compassion and
love and understanding and theabsence of judgment really can
allow that path to be createdfor you.
The potential downside of thetaking a step idea is that when
you want something done or youwant to feel better, often you
want it done quickly, like youwant it done yesterday, and we
often want to take big steps toget it over with and just make
(16:17):
it happen already, and chippingaway in small steps doesn't
necessarily feel rewarding orexciting.
It's not that dopamine hit thatwe might be wanting.
So it's very easy to give upand the challenge here is that
when you give up you often slideback into a deeper dorsal,
detached, disconnected, avoidantplace and you might feel more
depressed and more incapable andmore hopeless and you might
(16:38):
find yourself getting stuckthere, and I've talked about in
previous episodes that there isa biological reason actually why
it can be hard to move quicklyout of a dorsal experience.
So once you slide back down, itcan take some time to be able
to gain your resources to moveback up.
Then you can start tellingyourself these stories like you
tried, but it didn't work andyou're a failure and you're not
good enough and there's too muchto be done to take little steps
(17:00):
, and the stories can go on andon and it can become really
disempowered.
However, if you are at a placewhere you are sick of the
struggle my first podcastepisode is called Struggle is so
Last Year, because that's verymuch the place that I got to and
I was like I've been strugglingfor decades, I'm over it, I'm
going to figure this out andTake a Step eventually did
emerge from that experience andthat commitment to wellness and
(17:23):
feeling better, and so if youare also ready for something new
, even if there's just a littletiny part of you that believes
that things can be better, Iinvite you to listen to that
part of you, even if the voiceis small right now, and
compassionately try taking anattuned step.
So that doesn't mean a stepthat somebody else tells you to
take.
That's a step that you tuneinto your own system and your
(17:45):
own experience and decide whatis the next right step for you.
I also want to add that if thetake a step framework still
seems like too much for you,like you really want this to
work and so you sit down and youclose your eyes.
You don't have to close youreyes, by the way, but if you sit
down and close your eyes andyou think about it and you say,
okay, what do I need right now?
And there's crickets, or youthink I have no idea what I need
(18:07):
, and then it's like, oh my gosh, I don't need one thing, I need
a hundred things.
This is too stressful, orwhatever it is that comes up or
doesn't come up.
Just know that beginning tocheck in again with some
compassion compassion is key,understanding that this is a
process.
This might be tricky, thismight be a new skill, it might
take a little bit of time andjust know that there is an
(18:29):
answer in there and whatevercomes up or again doesn't come
up is just where you are rightnow and if you can say, okay,
this is where I am right now andnot judge it again.
Not judging is key.
And continue the practice, ask,ask yourself later, ask
yourself tomorrow and continueto be gentle, as gentle as you
can.
And I do encourage you to thinkabout dropping down from your
(18:51):
mind and your head space andyour brain and your thoughts and
really allowing your questionsto sort of come into your
nervous system.
Experience, which might feelweird or new to you, but our
nervous system functions belowour consciousness, so that means
that it functions withoutthought.
(19:12):
It's actually calledneuroception how our nervous
system perceives informationfrom inside of us, from outside
in the world and also inrelationship between people,
between nervous systems, and ithappens without thinking.
So it's not even unconscious,it's actually non-conscious.
And making the non-consciousnervous system experience into a
conscious experience that youcan attach thought and say, oh,
(19:34):
what's happening here?
Oh, I understand what'shappening in my nervous system.
Experience is absolutely a skilland it's something that you
really have to practice and ittakes time.
Something that you really haveto practice and it takes time,
but it doesn't have to take alot of time if you can do it
with compassion and non-judgment.
So if you could just let it bewhat it is and keep at it, then
you actually might be totallyamazed about the wisdom that
(19:56):
starts to come from your nervoussystem.
I myself have been blown awaywhen it's like a whisper of an
answer comes seemingly out ofnowhere and I'm like, oh my gosh
, that's what my nervous systemneeds.
But it's because I quieted downand I gave it space and I asked
and I asked with kindness andcompassion and love, because the
(20:18):
struggle got real easy for me.
It was easy to stay stuck.
It was easy to stay detached.
It was easy to stay detached.
It was easy to stay avoidant.
It was painful, it was awful,but it was easy.
Doing this sometimes can feelhard until it doesn't.
The more you practice it, themore you cooperate with your
nervous system, the more amazingit becomes.
And I'm not telling you thatit's a switch.
We're still human.
(20:38):
Things are hard.
Sometimes we have feelings.
Suffering is a human experience.
But it's not that you won'tever have a bad feeling again in
your life.
It's that you know how torespond to it and understand how
your nervous system is reactingto it.
And then you can support yournervous system and giving it
what it needs, and then you canbe free to move forward and
creating the rest of your life.
It's a really good system.
(20:59):
I have to tell you if you knowhow it works.
And again, if this feelsoverwhelming, check out my
previous episodes, because I'vebeen talking about this take a
step idea for a little bit, andI talked about the simple two
question choice that I startedwith when I started
experimenting with this idea oftaking a step, and it sometimes
was helpful because it felt lessoverwhelming, like it wasn't
like, out of all the things inthe world, what do you need?
(21:21):
It was much more direct andmuch simpler and it was just a
question of does your systemneed to take a step towards rest
or do I need to take a smallstep towards action, towards
doing something that feelsmanageable?
And again, I've talked aboutthat in a couple of recent
episodes.
So, if you're interested, youcan go back and check those out
and, if I may be so bold as toshare a piece of advice, you can
(21:43):
take it or leave it, dependingon how it sits in your system,
but I really would encourage youand tell you that honoring your
nervous system is so much morevaluable than pushing it to do
what you think you should do.
You have likely been beingpushed by yourself or others,
even well-intentioned, lovingothers.
As I often say, this isn'tabout judging the people in your
(22:05):
life.
A lot of the time, people wantyou to feel better, so they try
to push you to feel better, butit doesn't always feel very
supportive or helpful, and sothis is a huge shift to be able
to move from what I think Ishould do or what I think I'm
supposed to do to what does mynervous system actually need
from me right now, and becauseour nervous system is all about
feeling safe and protecting us,we can respond in this way.
(22:26):
That, I feel, gives us a lotmore possibility.
It certainly has given me a lotmore possibility and a lot more
clarity about what action Ineed to take, and that's really
what the take a step approach isall about for me, and I have
found it to be really quitehelpful, and I hope that if you
choose to experiment with it,you will also find it helpful.
Please feel free to find me onInstagram, at trishsanderslcsw,
(22:47):
or anywhere else on social mediathere are links below in the
show notes because I'd love tohear about your experience with
taking a step, and I will alsojust close saying that this
episode and my recent episodesare obviously geared towards
somebody who's feeling morestuck in depression or
disconnection and theythemselves are looking to take
(23:07):
some steps, and if that's you,then I truly hope that something
resonated with you today or inmy recent episodes.
And being that this is the whenDepression Is In your Bed
podcast, and it's aboutrelationships, I also know you
might be interested in howtaking a step can work in your
relationship with your partner,and I will talk more about that
next time.
So stay tuned and I lookforward to connecting with you
(23:28):
next week.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
(23:49):
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(24:10):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
, or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(24:33):
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
(24:54):
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
(25:16):
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you feeling lost or stuckin the monotony of your
day-to-day?
Do you often find yourselffeeling kind of numb or checked
out, like you think there mustbe more to life than this, but
you just don't know a way to getthere?
If you relate, please join metoday in talking about how to
take steps that can move you andyour life into a more hopeful,
(00:25):
connected, satisfying place.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I am so glad that you're
here.
Let's get started.
Whether you identify as beingjust a little depressed, or
maybe more than a littledepressed, if you know what it
feels like to be in that stuck,detached, disconnected place,
you may also know how hard itcan feel to get out of that
(00:46):
place, and if you're like me,maybe you've spent a lot of time
waiting for a better day,things to be easier, or maybe
just for the stars and theplanets to align in a particular
way so that you can reallystart to feel better.
In my experience, though,waiting like that can end up
taking forever, or what feelslike forever, and you can end up
feeling pretty stuck for areally long time, and it can be
(01:09):
really disempowering, and whenthat better day finally does
come which inevitably a betterday does come at some point it
often doesn't last long, or itdoesn't feel like it lasts long
enough, given how long you hadto wait for it, and then it can
be a quick and painful fall fromfeeling okay enough to feeling
not so okay at all.
That's why leaving it to chancemay not be the best strategy,
(01:31):
but if you don't know anotherway, then you're very likely
going to stay feeling stuck.
Through my own experiences, Ihave found that tuning into
myself and into my nervoussystem and actually asking what
do I really need in this momenthas really been helpful in
guiding me about what directionI need to go and what step I
need to take to be able to getme out of that stuckness, that
(01:53):
numbness, that detached feeling.
And so I have been practicingtaking a step of any size, in
any direction, in any way thatmakes sense to me, and you can
take a step towards rest or safeconnection or playfulness or
movement or some type of actionthat may feel more manageable
for you, and empowering yourselfto figure out what is a step
(02:14):
that you actually connect to,what's a step that your system
and your body and your authenticyou really wants to do, and
figuring out what kind of stepactually makes sense to you can
empower you to be able toactually begin moving from that
stuck place, and it can be atruly transformative experience.
And that's what I've beentalking about over the last few
episodes and I will continuetalking about today, and I'm
(02:37):
going to start off with the ideaof taking a step towards
feeling hope, and if thinkingabout feeling hopeful feels hard
in some way, like you findyourself feeling hopeless, or
hope doesn't really feel like anoption for you, I really invite
you to stay with me and see ifyou connect to anything that I
share.
And I do want to start off byjust talking briefly about your
(02:57):
nervous system and why hope canfeel so out of reach for some of
us sometimes, and so I'vetalked about this before in
other episodes and you'rewelcome to go and dive back into
some of that or research it onyour own.
But the short mini nervoussystem lesson is that our
nervous system has three statesthat it can be in.
One is a state of safety, andthat's called ventral, and the
other two are survival states.
(03:19):
One is called your sympatheticstate, which is your fight or
flight response.
It's mobilized response tothreat.
Something threatening ishappening to me, so I have to
respond, I have to do somethingabout it.
And we also have dorsal, whichis the freeze response, and it
is something is happening that'sthreatening, but I don't have
the resources or the ability tofight it.
I can't do anything about it,so I have to shut down in order
(03:40):
to protect myself.
I have to collapse or withdrawor hide or be invisible for
safety, and so when someone'snervous system is in dorsal,
they also may be experiencingwhat we might call depression or
that feeling of being detachedor going through the motions,
that kind of thing.
And here is something that Ifind to be completely amazing.
But how we experience the worldis connected to the state of
(04:01):
your nervous system, so thatmeans the way you perceive
things is totally dependent onthe state your nervous system is
in.
If you're interested in moreinformation on that, you can
check out one of my earlierepisodes, including Beyond
Diagnosis and UnderstandingDepression Through the Nervous
System, and there's also a lotof great information out there
about polyvagal theory, whichwe'll also talk about this as
(04:22):
well.
So the feeling of hope is what'scalled an emergent quality of
the ventral state of yournervous system.
So this basically means that wecan only experience hope when
our nervous system feels safe,and this is because having hope
requires us to have a sense thatthings are possible,
particularly in a good, positiveway, and it also means that we
(04:44):
have the ability to think aboutthe future, again in a positive
way.
And in order to be able to dothis, our nervous system needs
to be able to feel safe, so wehave access to our thinking and
feeling abilities, because whenwe are in a survival mode, we
lose access to those abilitiesbecause our nervous system is
only concerned with survival,and survival is about what do I
(05:07):
have to do right now, in thismoment, in order to survive this
threat?
And it is not helpful toimagine a positive outcome in a
future that we haven't yetexperienced, because it can
actually be a distraction andend up threatening our ability
to survive, and our nervoussystem is very good at surviving
, and so it doesn't allow us tothink and feel in this kind of
(05:30):
hopeful way.
So if you think about driving acar down a highway, and if a
car cuts you off, it's notbeneficial for you to really be
thinking, oh, I hope nothing badhappens or I hope everybody's
okay, because then you would bedistracted by the thought of
wishing that things will be okayrather than being able to act
very quickly and being able toturn the wheel or jam on the
(05:51):
brakes.
And so this is how our survivalresponse works and it's very
effective for survival.
And it's important tounderstand this, because you
might not be able to convinceyourself to be hopeful using
your thoughts, but if youunderstand your nervous system,
you can begin to gently andcompassionately get your system
into a greater feeling of safety.
(06:12):
And then, because ourperception of the world is
attached to our nervous systemstate, when we have more of that
ventral, safe, connected, calmexperience in our nervous system
, hope may start to emerge, andthat's what I mean by emergent
quality.
Hope can emerge when ournervous system feels safe.
(06:32):
In previous episodes I havetalked about the steps of
depression, which is what I callthe spectrum of depressed
feelings, from the deepest,darkest depression that someone
can experience, all the way upto going through the motions,
being mildly disinterested inlife or just not really feeling
engaged or joyfully connectedday to day.
And so there's a spectrum ofall those different steps, from
(06:55):
the most severe depression to amuch more mild depression or
disconnection, and I think that,using that idea of the steps,
the continuum or the spectrum ofdepression, I think that
concept can be really helpfulwhen we think about how to take
a step towards hope,particularly when it feels
really hard.
And so I invite you to imaginewhat I would call the steps of
(07:17):
hope.
And so I invite you to imaginewhat I would call the steps of
hope, and perhaps the top ofthat staircase would be fully
expecting that things are goingto go well or good things are
coming your way, they're justaround the corner, and feeling
really confident in thatexperience.
And that might feel totallyunavailable to you, like a total
fantasy, and that's totallyokay if that's not the step that
(07:38):
you're on.
But if you imagine coming down astep, maybe it would be
optimistically hoping thatthings will get better or
believing that it's possible forthings to get better.
And then maybe, if you go downanother step, perhaps it would
be wishing or longing for thingsto improve in some way.
And maybe, if you went downanother step, perhaps that would
look like curiosity, thatasking yourself could things
(08:00):
ever be better?
Is that an option for you?
Is that something that'spossible for you?
And maybe towards one of thelower steps on the staircase, it
would just be wondering ifchange is possible, if change
really happens in the world,kind of thing like.
Is change something that isaccessible to you, and just sort
of wondering about it and foryour staircase of hope?
(08:20):
Each step might feel a littlebit different.
It's unique to you, but just togive you an idea of what the
different steps of hope couldlook like the different spectrum
of full hopefulness all the waydown to even just a desire to
feel hopeful, I would say.
And so if you think about it,you can tune in and see if any
of those concepts resonate withyour nervous system right now,
(08:42):
in this moment.
So it doesn't matter whatyou've felt before, because it's
a common experience to think ohwell, I felt hopeful before, I
just don't feel hopeful now.
And it doesn't always feelparticularly helpful to think,
oh well, maybe I'll feel hopefulagain one day.
It depends how you're feelingright now.
So if you tune in to where youare right now, can you access
any of that curiosity, any ofthe wonder, any of that longing,
(09:04):
maybe some hopefulness, maybeeven if your nervous system is
feeling safe in this moment,maybe you can have a sense of
expecting things to be good and,no matter where you are, no
matter what step you're on, youcan just notice and name it,
without judging it or thinkingthat you should be on a
different step, because should,as you'll hear me say many times
, is really just a judgment.
(09:25):
So if you allow yourself tojust be where you are and if
you're on one of the lower steps, know that this is one way that
your nervous system iscommunicating to you and all
it's communicating is that it'snot feeling completely safe.
If hope is not present, thatjust means that your nervous
system is under some kind ofthreatening feeling, and it
(09:45):
might be a real threat or aperceived threat.
It can get very complicatedwhen we don't know why we're
feeling like there's a threatgoing on, like we might
cognitively know oh well, I'mnot really in danger right now.
So what do you mean?
But our nervous system isperceiving something and so we
just need to know that.
Okay, it's just not safe enoughto feel hopeful at this moment.
It does not actually mean youare hopeless.
(10:06):
That could be the story in yourhead.
That could be the story youtell yourself, like I can't feel
hope, I feel hopeless, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean it's
the reality.
The reality is is that that'sjust where your nervous system
is at right now, and we canreally pay attention to that and
use that as a sign to say, oh,actually, now that means I might
need to take a step towardsfeeling some sort of safety,
(10:26):
which I think is another reallyvaluable step, and that can mean
a lot of different things toevery different person.
It could even mean differentthings to the same person in
different moments.
So thinking in terms of thenervous system can be really
powerful, and I will also saythat in this episode I'm
focusing on the individual beingable to take steps and what
steps might be helpful.
That's sort of been the focusof my last few episodes, but I
(10:48):
will be talking in the nextepisode more about how the idea
of taking a step can apply topartners in relationships.
So if you're interested in that, of course you can tune in next
time.
Over the last few episodes Ihave shared different types of
steps that can be helpful and Ihave determined the steps in
part from my own understandingof the nervous system and also
(11:11):
how, given that understanding ofthe nervous system, how I have
experienced and been successfulwith using the idea of taking a
step on my own.
As a matter of fact, I actuallyhad a bracelet made that says
take a step, and I wear it everyday as a reminder to help me
move forward.
When my nervous system is inwhat I would call a sympathetic
spiral, which means when I'm inthat fight or flight mode and
(11:34):
I'm feeling overwhelmed orchaotic and time is moving too
fast and I'm really stressed outbecause I can't get everything
done, or when my dorsal dwellingshows up that's the dorsal
experience of my nervous systemwhen I go into that detached,
disconnected, avoidant shutdownsort of place.
And I've been using this ideaof take a step for a while and
(11:55):
it's been helpful for me and sothat's why I'm sharing it with
you.
Consciously doing things inthese small ways that are not
just small steps but they'rereally attuned to the needs of
my nervous system in a givenmoment has really helped to take
a lot of pressure off for meand that has created a lot of
safety in my own experience,which contributes to my
increased ability to take othersteps.
(12:18):
So the reason it takes pressureoff is because I know that I
don't have to have the wholeplan figured out.
Yet I will tell you that I am aplanner and for many things I
do have a whole plan figured out.
That's really true.
But that's only for certainthings that don't spark a cue of
danger for my nervous system,because there's a lot of things
(12:39):
in my life that I find eitherchallenging or overwhelming or I
don't feel like I know how todo or that trigger some part of
me feeling like not good enoughor incapable and those things
really are huge cues of dangerfor me and my nervous system
ends up often going into thishiding and avoidant place, this
dorsal state, this detached,shut down kind of place, and for
(13:01):
that reason I don't have a planand thinking about even making
a plan can feel reallyoverwhelming and again trigger
that going into avoidance.
And so not having to figure itall out and knowing that I don't
have to figure it all out canfeel really freeing and again is
like a cue of safety for mynervous system that allows me to
(13:22):
take a breath and say, okay, Idon't need to know at all, I
just need to know what the nextstep is.
Because for me there arecertain things where, if I feel
like I have to figure outeverything before I even get
started, I would be totallyfrozen in paralysis, and that
can still happen for me in mynervous system now.
(13:43):
But I've learned to notice whenthat process starts happening
and I've gotten much better atsaying hey, I'm feeling a cue of
danger here, and I noticed thatI'm avoiding something that
feels overwhelming or hard, andI've been able to take steps
that feel safe and manageabletowards being able to break
those things down, and it's beenreally, really liberating for
me.
So I love the idea of taking astep because it allows me to
(14:06):
move without having to knoweverything, and it also allows
me to have a sense of agency andI can feel capable, like I'm
doing something, which a lot ofthe time, when you're depressed,
people are saying like whydon't you just do something?
Just do anything.
Doing something is better thandoing nothing, which is true.
But a lot of that comes with aside of judgment, whether it's
judgment from other people, evenif it's loving people or
(14:27):
self-judgment, and this take astep idea again with
understanding of the nervoussystem behind it really takes
out the judgment.
It's like well, my nervoussystem is receiving a cue of
danger.
So I have to honor that.
I have to do something to helpme feel safe, and thinking about
the whole big thing feels liketoo much.
So let me just see what part ofthis feels accessible, what
part of this feels safe anddoable.
(14:48):
And if you're a person who feelssafe having big goals and
making objectives and having bigplans, then that's awesome and
there's nothing wrong with that.
That's actually wonderful ifyou have that skill and
sometimes I can access thatskill.
But it all depends on the stateof my nervous system.
And if something lands assomething safe for me, then I
can go ahead and make that bigplan and I can follow through
and often it feels like there'sa lot of ease, like I feel like
(15:09):
I'm in flow, like oh, I'm doingthis, it feels good, I feel
productive, I feel proud ofmyself.
But when something lands as athreat for me, then that
capacity that I have sometimessometimes is not available to me
.
So if you're somebody who doesfeel overwhelmed by looking at
the whole big picture and itfeels like too much to have it
all figured out, know that youdon't have to.
It can actually be far morehelpful to tune into your
(15:31):
nervous system and think what doI really need here, what is the
step that feels accessible tome?
And to move one step at a time.
And if you stay attuned and youstay compassionate and you
don't judge the size of yoursteps or the type of step that
you take, and things like that,you can actually start to piece
together a whole little path intime by taking one step and then
(15:54):
another and then another andthen another, and compassion and
love and understanding and theabsence of judgment really can
allow that path to be createdfor you.
The potential downside of thetaking a step idea is that when
you want something done or youwant to feel better, often you
want it done quickly, like youwant it done yesterday, and we
often want to take big steps toget it over with and just make
(16:17):
it happen already, and chippingaway in small steps doesn't
necessarily feel rewarding orexciting.
It's not that dopamine hit thatwe might be wanting.
So it's very easy to give upand the challenge here is that
when you give up you often slideback into a deeper dorsal,
detached, disconnected, avoidantplace and you might feel more
depressed and more incapable andmore hopeless and you might
(16:38):
find yourself getting stuckthere, and I've talked about in
previous episodes that there isa biological reason actually why
it can be hard to move quicklyout of a dorsal experience.
So once you slide back down, itcan take some time to be able
to gain your resources to moveback up.
Then you can start tellingyourself these stories like you
tried, but it didn't work andyou're a failure and you're not
good enough and there's too muchto be done to take little steps
(17:00):
, and the stories can go on andon and it can become really
disempowered.
However, if you are at a placewhere you are sick of the
struggle my first podcastepisode is called Struggle is so
Last Year, because that's verymuch the place that I got to and
I was like I've been strugglingfor decades, I'm over it, I'm
going to figure this out andTake a Step eventually did
emerge from that experience andthat commitment to wellness and
(17:23):
feeling better, and so if youare also ready for something new
, even if there's just a littletiny part of you that believes
that things can be better, Iinvite you to listen to that
part of you, even if the voiceis small right now, and
compassionately try taking anattuned step.
So that doesn't mean a stepthat somebody else tells you to
take.
That's a step that you tuneinto your own system and your
(17:45):
own experience and decide whatis the next right step for you.
I also want to add that if thetake a step framework still
seems like too much for you,like you really want this to
work and so you sit down and youclose your eyes.
You don't have to close youreyes, by the way, but if you sit
down and close your eyes andyou think about it and you say,
okay, what do I need right now?
And there's crickets, or youthink I have no idea what I need
(18:07):
, and then it's like, oh my gosh, I don't need one thing, I need
a hundred things.
This is too stressful, orwhatever it is that comes up or
doesn't come up.
Just know that beginning tocheck in again with some
compassion compassion is key,understanding that this is a
process.
This might be tricky, thismight be a new skill, it might
take a little bit of time andjust know that there is an
(18:29):
answer in there and whatevercomes up or again doesn't come
up is just where you are rightnow and if you can say, okay,
this is where I am right now andnot judge it again.
Not judging is key.
And continue the practice, ask,ask yourself later, ask
yourself tomorrow and continueto be gentle, as gentle as you
can.
And I do encourage you to thinkabout dropping down from your
(18:51):
mind and your head space andyour brain and your thoughts and
really allowing your questionsto sort of come into your
nervous system.
Experience, which might feelweird or new to you, but our
nervous system functions belowour consciousness, so that means
that it functions withoutthought.
(19:12):
It's actually calledneuroception how our nervous
system perceives informationfrom inside of us, from outside
in the world and also inrelationship between people,
between nervous systems, and ithappens without thinking.
So it's not even unconscious,it's actually non-conscious.
And making the non-consciousnervous system experience into a
conscious experience that youcan attach thought and say, oh,
(19:34):
what's happening here?
Oh, I understand what'shappening in my nervous system.
Experience is absolutely a skilland it's something that you
really have to practice and ittakes time.
Something that you really haveto practice and it takes time,
but it doesn't have to take alot of time if you can do it
with compassion and non-judgment.
So if you could just let it bewhat it is and keep at it, then
you actually might be totallyamazed about the wisdom that
(19:56):
starts to come from your nervoussystem.
I myself have been blown awaywhen it's like a whisper of an
answer comes seemingly out ofnowhere and I'm like, oh my gosh
, that's what my nervous systemneeds.
But it's because I quieted downand I gave it space and I asked
and I asked with kindness andcompassion and love, because the
(20:18):
struggle got real easy for me.
It was easy to stay stuck.
It was easy to stay detached.
It was easy to stay detached.
It was easy to stay avoidant.
It was painful, it was awful,but it was easy.
Doing this sometimes can feelhard until it doesn't.
The more you practice it, themore you cooperate with your
nervous system, the more amazingit becomes.
And I'm not telling you thatit's a switch.
We're still human.
(20:38):
Things are hard.
Sometimes we have feelings.
Suffering is a human experience.
But it's not that you won'tever have a bad feeling again in
your life.
It's that you know how torespond to it and understand how
your nervous system is reactingto it.
And then you can support yournervous system and giving it
what it needs, and then you canbe free to move forward and
creating the rest of your life.
It's a really good system.
(20:59):
I have to tell you if you knowhow it works.
And again, if this feelsoverwhelming, check out my
previous episodes, because I'vebeen talking about this take a
step idea for a little bit, andI talked about the simple two
question choice that I startedwith when I started
experimenting with this idea oftaking a step, and it sometimes
was helpful because it felt lessoverwhelming, like it wasn't
like, out of all the things inthe world, what do you need?
(21:21):
It was much more direct andmuch simpler and it was just a
question of does your systemneed to take a step towards rest
or do I need to take a smallstep towards action, towards
doing something that feelsmanageable?
And again, I've talked aboutthat in a couple of recent
episodes.
So, if you're interested, youcan go back and check those out
and, if I may be so bold as toshare a piece of advice, you can
(21:43):
take it or leave it, dependingon how it sits in your system,
but I really would encourage youand tell you that honoring your
nervous system is so much morevaluable than pushing it to do
what you think you should do.
You have likely been beingpushed by yourself or others,
even well-intentioned, lovingothers.
As I often say, this isn'tabout judging the people in your
(22:05):
life.
A lot of the time, people wantyou to feel better, so they try
to push you to feel better, butit doesn't always feel very
supportive or helpful, and sothis is a huge shift to be able
to move from what I think Ishould do or what I think I'm
supposed to do to what does mynervous system actually need
from me right now, and becauseour nervous system is all about
feeling safe and protecting us,we can respond in this way.
(22:26):
That, I feel, gives us a lotmore possibility.
It certainly has given me a lotmore possibility and a lot more
clarity about what action Ineed to take, and that's really
what the take a step approach isall about for me, and I have
found it to be really quitehelpful, and I hope that if you
choose to experiment with it,you will also find it helpful.
Please feel free to find me onInstagram, at trishsanderslcsw,
(22:47):
or anywhere else on social mediathere are links below in the
show notes because I'd love tohear about your experience with
taking a step, and I will alsojust close saying that this
episode and my recent episodesare obviously geared towards
somebody who's feeling morestuck in depression or
disconnection and theythemselves are looking to take
(23:07):
some steps, and if that's you,then I truly hope that something
resonated with you today or inmy recent episodes.
And being that this is the whenDepression Is In your Bed
podcast, and it's aboutrelationships, I also know you
might be interested in howtaking a step can work in your
relationship with your partner,and I will talk more about that
next time.
So stay tuned and I lookforward to connecting with you
(23:28):
next week.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
(23:49):
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(24:10):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards action, or towards rest, or connection
, or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(24:33):
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
(24:54):
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
(25:16):
a step.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.