April 30, 2025 • 26 mins
Faced with the crucial question of whether to stay in or leave a relationship? Your body holds wisdom your mind can't access. This episode completes a seven-part journey through conscious relationship decision-making with arguably the most powerful question: What does your nervous system tell you when contemplating staying versus leaving?
Many of us live disconnected from our bodies, missing crucial guidance hidden within our physical responses. Even those drawn to somatic practices may struggle to maintain this connection. Drawing from personal experience, I share how tuning into my body revolutionized my understanding of my relationship needs. When considering staying during conflict periods, the physical sensation of pulling back wasn't necessarily a sign to end the relationship, but crucial information about boundaries needing attention. Similarly, feelings of relief when imagining leaving provided important data without dictating a specific action.
Through two transformative exercises, you'll learn to access your own nervous system wisdom. The first practice helps you identify whether your body moves toward connection, pushes against in resistance, has an urge to get away from or detaches completely when considering each relationship path. The second, "Leaps and Landings," acknowledges that both staying and leaving involve stepping into the unknown, and helps you recognize both fears and hopes associated with each direction.
These exercises aren't designed to deliver a definitive "should you stay or go" answer. Rather, they establish communication with your nervous system, allowing its wisdom to inform your decision-making process. Whether you're new to somatic awareness or an experienced practitioner, these exercises offer valuable insights cognitive approaches alone cannot provide.
Connect with me on Instagram @trish.sanders.lcsw to share your experience with these practices. Remember that meaningful change doesn't require seeing the entire path at once – just take one step, any size, in any direction. Getting to a place that feels better, more joyful, and more connected is possible for everyone, including you, even when depression is in your bed.
If you are interested in checking out the "Leaps and Landings" exercise referenced in this episode and more information about how the nervous system is at the heart of our lived experience, check out Deb Dana's Anchored.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you ready to tune into thewisdom of your nervous system to
receive some guidance about howto move forward in your
relationship?
If so, join me today as I walkyou through two different
exercises to support you inmaking a conscious decision
about whether or not you want tostay with your partner.
(00:23):
The first is a simple noticeand name exercise intended to
help you to begin to getacquainted with your nervous
system and its brilliantmessages.
The second moves into beginningto stretch your system,
preparing you to move into theunknown, whether that is the
unknown of what you and yourpartner may be able to create by
(00:43):
staying together, or theunknown that comes along with
you choosing to move on.
I'm your host, trish Sanders.
Whether you're new tobefriending your nervous system
or if you regularly practicethis kind of self attunement,
I'm so excited to share theseexercises with you and I hope
that they provide you with someinsight, as they have provided
(01:04):
me.
Let's get started.
Today is the last episode inwhat has become a seven episode
series about making a consciousdecision about whether you want
to leave your relationship orstay in it, though it was not my
intention to spend so manyepisodes on this topic all at
once.
I felt that it was necessaryafter my first episode to really
(01:28):
go into some more detailsbecause in that first episode
should I stay or should I go?
I reviewed the seven questionsthat I myself have used over my
relationship to make a consciouschoice about whether I wanted
to stay in my relationship withmy husband and, as I did the
review of the actual questions,it just felt like it made sense
(01:49):
for me to share my own thoughtprocess with anybody who might
find it helpful.
I have already reviewed thefirst six questions in greater
detail over the last severalepisodes, but just a quick
review of those questions.
The first had to do with thereal or perceived obstacles that
come to mind when thinkingabout leaving a relationship,
and the second question wasabout the unconscious factors
(02:09):
that may be keeping you in yourrelationship.
The third question was are youwilling to do the work of
relationship?
And then the fourth was is yourpartner willing to do the work
of relationship?
The fifth question was what arethe strengths of your
relationship?
And the sixth question in thetopic of the last episode was
can you deeply love and care foryourself and continue to be in
(02:29):
this relationship.
And the seventh question iswhat do you feel in your body,
in your nervous system, when youthink about ending the
relationship you have with yourpartner, and what do you feel in
your body and in your systemwhen you think about staying in
the relationship?
I'm going to talk a little bitabout why this is such an
important question and my ownexperience, and then I'm also
(02:52):
going to walk you through twodifferent nervous system
exercises to help you tune intoyour own wisdom that may emerge
from thinking about thisquestion.
I myself have been verydisconnected from my body for
most of my life, which is not aterribly uncommon experience for
many people.
However, even as a teenager, Iknew that there was something
(03:14):
important about my body.
I was very attracted to yogapractices.
I remember I was 19 when Ifirst did a body work exercise
with a therapist and it was avery positive experience.
But there was also something inmy own experience of my
disconnection from my own bodythat, even though I had this
real strong draw towards thiswork, there was also something
(03:36):
that really kept me quitedistanced from it and I really
was never able to connect in avery deep way or maintain any
type of regular body practice,and it was not something that I
chose to study directly or getmore training in over my
professional career for many,many years.
However, in the last severalyears, I have really been on
(03:58):
quite a journey, and I'm stillon a journey of reconnecting
with my body and tuning into thewisdom and brilliance of my
nervous system, of my body, theinformation that is stored there
and how to work with it toreally tune into what my needs
are and what safety is, and howto find safety and how to
cooperate, work in partnershipwith my body and my system in
(04:21):
order to consciously move myselfinto a life that truly feels
aligned with who I really am.
So I really started to playwith this question and notice
what was happening in my bodyand in my system when I thought
about staying in therelationship with my husband
just over the last I would sayprobably five years maybe and I
started to notice that differentthings would come up in my body
(04:43):
at different times and I wouldjust be curious about what came
up.
So, for me, sometimes, when Ithought about staying with my
husband, sometimes I had a verystrong feeling of wanting to get
away.
If we were in a place of a lotof tension, a lot of high
conflict, I sort of could feel apull back in my body, and I
knew that that pull back wasindicating that I needed to
(05:05):
protect myself in some way.
That didn't necessarily meanthat I had to end my
relationship, but I knew that Ineeded to take care of something
in my relationship.
It wasn't a place that feltsafe enough for me to be, and so
that was really importantinformation.
I also noticed a lot of thetime probably for longer than
the last five years, and then,when I thought about leaving my
relationship, there wereoftentimes when I felt a sense
of relief, a sense of ease, andthat didn't necessarily mean
(05:29):
that I should leave myrelationship and should, as I've
said before and I'm sure we'llsay again, is really a judgment.
My experience of doing thispractice was not to get a
definitive answer of whether Ishould stay or go, but rather to
tap in to what my needs were inthis really powerful way of
tuning into my body and into mysystem, and there's many
(05:50):
different ways to do this.
I can talk further about my ownexperience, and I would be
happy to do so, but I do thinkthat talking about nervous
system work or body work orsomatic work is a very different
experience than actuallyfeeling the experience of
nervous system work or somaticwork.
So I really wanted to be ableto share with you today an
(06:10):
experience that would allow you,if you so choose, to be able to
tap into the wisdom that is inyour own system.
This question is not designedto get you to an absolute answer
, although I do hope that thewhole process brings you much
closer to clarity and being ableto make a decision for yourself
that truly makes sense.
But this question is intendedto open up a line of
(06:32):
communication between you andyour nervous system in a way
that may or may not have beenavailable to you before, so that
your system, essentially, canreally weigh in and help guide
you in the decision-makingprocess.
And if you are not familiar witha nervous system practice or
with tuning into your body, thatis totally okay.
You may have even been taughtto ignore cues from your body in
(06:56):
your nervous system, so thismay feel very unfamiliar and
therefore it might actually feelthreatening or dangerous and
you might not be interested indoing it at all.
And if that's where you are,that's totally understandable
and okay.
You're welcome to stay tuned inand listen and not participate
in the activity directly, oryou're welcome to shut this off
right now and come back anothertime when you're feeling safer
(07:19):
and more curious, or do whatevermakes sense to you.
But this is an invitation, asalways, for you to pay attention
to what makes sense to you.
But this is an invitation, asalways, for you to pay attention
to what makes sense to you, andit's an offering of a practice
that has been helpful for me andthat's why I'm sharing it with
you.
And if you are more familiarwith a practice of tuning into
your system and tuning into yoursomatic experience, then you're
(07:40):
also welcome, of course, toparticipate in this activity and
see what comes up for you.
And, as always, please feelfree to participate in whatever
way makes sense to you at anytime during either of the
exercises.
So I'm going to take youthrough two different types of
polyvagal exercises thatessentially tap into your
nervous system and the wisdomthat is stored there.
(08:01):
So just a brief review.
Your nervous system can be inone of three different states.
The first state is a state ofsafety and grounding, connection
, balance.
It's a state of feeling okayenough to be able to move
through the world, problem solve, connect, and it's called
ventral vagal.
And then the other two statesare survival states.
(08:21):
The first survival state iscalled sympathetic and it's also
often referred to as your fightor flight response.
And so this is a mobilizedstate of defense I'm sensing
threat and I have to dosomething about it, I have to
take action.
And then you also have a secondsurvival state which is called
dorsal vagal.
It is essentially your freezeresponse and it is a state of
(08:42):
shutdown and collapse and beingwithdrawn in order to protect
yourself.
So for this first exercise, it'sa very simple check-in to
notice what comes up in yoursystem when you think about
staying in the relationship orleaving and having that sense of
that ventral energy movingtowards wanting to connect or
something more of a fight orflight energy, wanting to kind
(09:04):
of attack or run away or some ofthat dorsal flavor of shutting
down, withdrawing, beingdisconnected or detached.
So I want you to just firsttake a moment, take a breath and
get settled wherever you are.
If you're driving or doingsomething where you can't quite
get settled, then perhaps youcan listen to this exercise now
(09:27):
or you can pause and you canpick it up again later when
you're somewhere else, or youcan try it in a way that makes
sense for you wherever you are.
But if you're sitting down, oreven if you're standing, if
you're able to tune in, just totake a moment, see if you can
ground into either where you'resitting, feel the support of the
(09:50):
chair or whatever is underneathyou, and you can feel the
support of your feet on theground, on the floor, wherever
you're standing, and just takethis moment to tune in, drop
down from the experience of yourmind and move down into your
system and think about stayingin this relationship with your
(10:13):
partner.
Think about the way things arenow.
You can think about how you'dlike them to be, perhaps, or the
relationship work that may needto be done in order to get
where you would like to be or tohave the relationship that
feels the way you'd like it tofeel, and just notice what comes
up in your system.
Is there a sense of movingtowards?
(10:36):
Is there a sense of moving awayor fighting against, pushing
against?
Is there a sense of detachmentor disconnection?
Are there any other bodysensations that emerge or any
emotions that you notice, anythoughts that come up Perhaps
(10:59):
there's an image or a color andjust take a few breaths, just
let yourself notice what comesup when you think about being
with your partner, staying withyour partner in this
relationship.
And now take a cleansing breathand let it go.
(11:27):
And now we'll do the same thing.
But now think about making thechoice to end your current
relationship so you no longerhave the same type of connection
that you currently do with yourpartner.
Try to imagine being in thatspace of having broken up or
separated or divorced and againcheck in to your system, notice
(11:55):
if you have a sense of movingtowards this experience or
moving away, if there's more ofa pushing against feeling or
again a detached or disconnectedfeeling.
What body sensations come upany emotions, thoughts, images,
(12:18):
colors.
And then just take another deepbreath in, perhaps shake it out
, shake your arms and your legs,sort of do a little reset and
just take a moment to see whatcame up and see what you noticed
(12:39):
.
You might want to pause here,take notes, journal, document,
dance, move, paint, draw, writea poem, take a break perhaps and
again, this is not designed togive you a final, definitive
answer about whether you shouldstay in this relationship or
leave it.
But this practice of checkingin with your nervous system, not
(13:01):
just about decisions that youmake but as you're experiencing
your relationship, is a reallypowerful practice, and I will
talk with you so much about howpolyvagal theory in particular
has transformed my relationshipwith myself and with my partner,
also even with my children, andreally just changed how I move
in the world.
So I will talk much more aboutthat in future episodes, but for
(13:24):
today it's really just thisbeginning invitation to tap into
the wisdom that you have, thatyou may not even know you have,
but it is absolutely there.
If that feels like enough fornow, then you are welcome to end
there.
But I also wanted to shareanother special polyvagal
exercise about making changes inyour life and heading into the
(13:46):
unknown.
Whether you stay or go, thereis a quality of unknown, because
if you choose to stay, youdon't really know what your
future looks like or the workthat needs to be done, or what
six months from now will reallylook like, or a year from now,
and if you choose to leave, youdon't know what that looks like
either.
So both choices have an elementof the unknown, even though, of
(14:07):
course, staying may have morefamiliarity because this is the
space that you've been in andyou know so.
This exercise is called leapsand landings and you can find it
in deb dana's book anchored,which I've mentioned before and
I'm sure I will mention againand I will leave a link for
anchored in the show notes ifyou're interested in checking it
(14:28):
out, which I do highlyrecommend.
So this is a slightly adaptedversion from what's in the book
to explore the future of yourrelationship.
If you're willing and interestedand it makes sense for you to
do this exercise in this moment,I invite you to start by just
taking a deep breath.
If you want to take anothercouple of breaths, you're
welcome to pause me here and Iinvite you to observe where you
(14:51):
are right now.
Think about the patterns inyour relationship that you are
engaging in or creating orreacting to that do not feel
nourishing in your system, and Iinvite you to hold compassion
for yourself about this patternthat no longer feels like it's
(15:13):
serving you, that's no longernourishing you, to know that
this pattern showed up in youand in your partner and in your
relationship in order to protectyou.
Its initial purpose was forsurvival.
This pattern did not emerge tocause you hurt and pain and make
you miserable.
(15:34):
It was designed to take care ofyou because our nervous system
and our brain is designed toprotect us.
So take a moment to acknowledgethis.
This concept that there'sunconscious patterns, or that
the things that are causing somuch trouble for us in our
relationship now actually arerooted in protection, might be a
(15:55):
new concept to you and it mightbe confusing or hard to believe
or hard to hold on to.
And if that's where you are, oranywhere else that you are, for
that matter, just acknowledgethat whatever thoughts come up
right now.
If you're curious to learn more, this is certainly a topic that
I will cover and talk moreabout, but for now, you can just
(16:17):
know that our patterns ofprotection do emerge because our
nervous system is actuallydoing its job, and our nervous
system and our brains do tend todo a very good job of
protecting us.
They are just responding tocues of danger and cues of
safety, as they're meant to do,and there's nothing wrong with
(16:38):
us for having these patterns ofprotection.
And sometimes we can makedecisions to work with those
patterns in our relationships orwe can make choices to work
with those patterns outside ofour current relationship.
So, whether this idea is new toyou, or if you're familiar with
it, if it's confusing or hardto hold on to or you're curious
(17:00):
about it, whatever is coming upfor you, you can just notice
that.
For now, we will justacknowledge that these patterns
that are causing such troublefor us, creating such conflict
for us in our currentrelationship, were, in fact,
designed to protect us.
So just notice what's coming upfor you in this moment,
(17:20):
thinking about these patternsthat exist for you.
Notice your body, sensations,your feelings, thoughts or
images, colors or anything elsethat comes up for you.
If you'd like to pause here andjournal or paint or draw or
dance or take a break or doanything else that makes sense
(17:42):
for you, you're welcome to dothat.
Next, I invite you to considerwhat it would be like to let go
of this pattern in yourrelationship.
In this case, the two pathsthat we'll think about would
either be staying with yourcurrent partner and creating a
relationship that feels bettertogether, or the other path
(18:02):
would be choosing to end yourrelationship and moving on to
the next phase without yourpartner.
I will walk you through both ofthese so you can explore what
comes up for you First imaginestepping out of your current
pattern by staying with yourpartner and figuring out what
the work of relationship meansto the two of you and what that
(18:24):
could be to do it together.
And, as you see yourself doingthat, look for any worries or
fears or concerns that come up.
And complete this sentence.
If I stay with my partner andstep out of this pattern then
and allow yourself to identifyand notice anything that comes
(18:49):
up that feels like it may get inyour way, do try to quiet your
mind and actually tune into yournervous system's answer, this
can be quite a magicalexperience that words just
appear for you.
And now let's look for hope bycompleting the same sentence.
(19:09):
If I stay with my partner andstep out of this pattern then
and again notice what's comingup in your system the sensations
, the emotions, thoughts, images, colors.
You're welcome to pause, totake more time here, to document
in a way that feels like itmakes sense, or to take a break.
(19:34):
And next we'll do the sameprocess, exploring the
experience of letting go.
But this time imagine steppingout of your current pattern by
ending the relationship withyour partner and, as you see
yourself doing that again, lookfor worries or fears or concerns
that come up by completing thissentence.
Worries or fears or concernsthat come up by completing this
(19:55):
sentence.
If I ended the relationshipwith my partner and stepped out
of this pattern, then and listento whatever comes up that feels
like it could get in your wayAgain.
Tune into your nervous systemmessages and give space for
whatever needs to come up tocome up and allow space for
whatever needs to come up tocome up and allow space for
whatever needs to be heard to beheard.
And now let's look for hope bycompleting the same sentence If
(20:19):
I ended the relationship with mypartner and stepped out of this
pattern, then, and once againnotice what's coming up in your
system right now, the sensationsand feelings, thoughts and
images, colors and anything elsethat may come up.
And again, you're welcome topause here for whatever reason
(20:42):
and do whatever makes sense foryou.
Now I invite you to considerwhat it would be like to take
one step out of your familiarpattern into the unknown.
Imagine this experience ofactually taking a step, and if
you're a visual person, maybeyou'll see a bridge or a
mountain or a path through thewoods.
(21:05):
If you're not a visual person,that's perfectly okay, just
imagine taking one step andnotice whatever comes up for you
, and remember that you don'tknow yet where you are heading.
What you know is that you'reready to step out of an old
adaptive survival pattern, apattern that emerged initially
(21:28):
to protect you and is no longerserving you.
You may notice that the unknownevokes a sense of danger or
threat in your nervous system,and if you notice this, if you
notice impatience or judgment orfear or wanting to stop, or
feeling angry or anxious oranything that feels
(21:49):
dysregulating, see if you canreach for something that feels a
little more grounding and safeand regulating.
Take a breath, move your body.
If pausing this exercise makessense to you, please do that.
If you're able to groundyourself and anchor in some of
(22:09):
that ventral energy and you'reable to feel safe enough to
continue, see yourself takingthe leap that will lead you to
somewhere new but not yet known.
Now I invite you to see yourselflanding in a new place.
You don't have to be able tosee everything in this new place
(22:32):
.
You don't have to knoweverything about it yet.
Tune into your system and justnotice that you are held safely
here in this new place that youdo not yet know.
See if you can allow yourselfto be curious and know that it's
okay to be in this place of notknowing.
Look around this new place andnotice anything that there is
(22:56):
for you to notice Again, thesensations or the thoughts, the
feelings, images, colors.
And again you can feel free topause or document and if you're
still here with me, you can takea breath and again, maybe shake
it out and just notice whatthat activity was like.
(23:18):
Notice if you were able to haveenough cues of safety to
actually be able to imagineyourself taking the leap.
And notice if any insightsemerged, any messages, any
learnings, any information.
And that's what this all reallyis.
It's about getting informationfrom your nervous system.
It's about tuning in and askingthe getting information from
your nervous system.
It's about tuning in and askingthe questions and allowing your
(23:40):
nervous system to give you theanswers that'll help to guide
you.
I hope that these experienceswere helpful.
To be honest, I do not know howthey will translate through the
podcast.
I'm very open to feedback ifyou loved it or if you didn't
like it at all or if it didn'tfeel great through a podcast,
but I felt strongly that thebest way to understand nervous
(24:03):
system work and somatic work isto actually do it and to
experience it, and I didn't wantthis episode to be a purely
cognitive exercise where I justtalked, exercise where I just
talked.
I wanted to invite you to tunein and maybe try something new,
or to do something that youalready practice, maybe in a new
way.
But I have finally made itthrough all seven questions and,
(24:27):
again, I hope that they havebeen helpful for you.
I invite you to connect with meon Instagram, at
trishsanderslcsw, and let meknow what this experience was
like for you.
I'm so very curious and I lookforward to completing this
series of episodes.
For now, I'm sure I will talkagain about making conscious
decisions, about staying inchallenging relationships, but
(24:49):
for now we will wrap up and Ilook forward to connecting with
you next time.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
(25:11):
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(25:34):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(26:01):
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
(26:21):
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Are you ready to tune into thewisdom of your nervous system to
receive some guidance about howto move forward in your
relationship?
If so, join me today as I walkyou through two different
exercises to support you inmaking a conscious decision
about whether or not you want tostay with your partner.
(00:23):
The first is a simple noticeand name exercise intended to
help you to begin to getacquainted with your nervous
system and its brilliantmessages.
The second moves into beginningto stretch your system,
preparing you to move into theunknown, whether that is the
unknown of what you and yourpartner may be able to create by
(00:43):
staying together, or theunknown that comes along with
you choosing to move on.
I'm your host, trish Sanders.
Whether you're new tobefriending your nervous system
or if you regularly practicethis kind of self attunement,
I'm so excited to share theseexercises with you and I hope
that they provide you with someinsight, as they have provided
(01:04):
me.
Let's get started.
Today is the last episode inwhat has become a seven episode
series about making a consciousdecision about whether you want
to leave your relationship orstay in it, though it was not my
intention to spend so manyepisodes on this topic all at
once.
I felt that it was necessaryafter my first episode to really
(01:28):
go into some more detailsbecause in that first episode
should I stay or should I go?
I reviewed the seven questionsthat I myself have used over my
relationship to make a consciouschoice about whether I wanted
to stay in my relationship withmy husband and, as I did the
review of the actual questions,it just felt like it made sense
(01:49):
for me to share my own thoughtprocess with anybody who might
find it helpful.
I have already reviewed thefirst six questions in greater
detail over the last severalepisodes, but just a quick
review of those questions.
The first had to do with thereal or perceived obstacles that
come to mind when thinkingabout leaving a relationship,
and the second question wasabout the unconscious factors
(02:09):
that may be keeping you in yourrelationship.
The third question was are youwilling to do the work of
relationship?
And then the fourth was is yourpartner willing to do the work
of relationship?
The fifth question was what arethe strengths of your
relationship?
And the sixth question in thetopic of the last episode was
can you deeply love and care foryourself and continue to be in
(02:29):
this relationship.
And the seventh question iswhat do you feel in your body,
in your nervous system, when youthink about ending the
relationship you have with yourpartner, and what do you feel in
your body and in your systemwhen you think about staying in
the relationship?
I'm going to talk a little bitabout why this is such an
important question and my ownexperience, and then I'm also
(02:52):
going to walk you through twodifferent nervous system
exercises to help you tune intoyour own wisdom that may emerge
from thinking about thisquestion.
I myself have been verydisconnected from my body for
most of my life, which is not aterribly uncommon experience for
many people.
However, even as a teenager, Iknew that there was something
(03:14):
important about my body.
I was very attracted to yogapractices.
I remember I was 19 when Ifirst did a body work exercise
with a therapist and it was avery positive experience.
But there was also something inmy own experience of my
disconnection from my own bodythat, even though I had this
real strong draw towards thiswork, there was also something
(03:36):
that really kept me quitedistanced from it and I really
was never able to connect in avery deep way or maintain any
type of regular body practice,and it was not something that I
chose to study directly or getmore training in over my
professional career for many,many years.
However, in the last severalyears, I have really been on
(03:58):
quite a journey, and I'm stillon a journey of reconnecting
with my body and tuning into thewisdom and brilliance of my
nervous system, of my body, theinformation that is stored there
and how to work with it toreally tune into what my needs
are and what safety is, and howto find safety and how to
cooperate, work in partnershipwith my body and my system in
(04:21):
order to consciously move myselfinto a life that truly feels
aligned with who I really am.
So I really started to playwith this question and notice
what was happening in my bodyand in my system when I thought
about staying in therelationship with my husband
just over the last I would sayprobably five years maybe and I
started to notice that differentthings would come up in my body
(04:43):
at different times and I wouldjust be curious about what came
up.
So, for me, sometimes, when Ithought about staying with my
husband, sometimes I had a verystrong feeling of wanting to get
away.
If we were in a place of a lotof tension, a lot of high
conflict, I sort of could feel apull back in my body, and I
knew that that pull back wasindicating that I needed to
(05:05):
protect myself in some way.
That didn't necessarily meanthat I had to end my
relationship, but I knew that Ineeded to take care of something
in my relationship.
It wasn't a place that feltsafe enough for me to be, and so
that was really importantinformation.
I also noticed a lot of thetime probably for longer than
the last five years, and then,when I thought about leaving my
relationship, there wereoftentimes when I felt a sense
of relief, a sense of ease, andthat didn't necessarily mean
(05:29):
that I should leave myrelationship and should, as I've
said before and I'm sure we'llsay again, is really a judgment.
My experience of doing thispractice was not to get a
definitive answer of whether Ishould stay or go, but rather to
tap in to what my needs were inthis really powerful way of
tuning into my body and into mysystem, and there's many
(05:50):
different ways to do this.
I can talk further about my ownexperience, and I would be
happy to do so, but I do thinkthat talking about nervous
system work or body work orsomatic work is a very different
experience than actuallyfeeling the experience of
nervous system work or somaticwork.
So I really wanted to be ableto share with you today an
(06:10):
experience that would allow you,if you so choose, to be able to
tap into the wisdom that is inyour own system.
This question is not designedto get you to an absolute answer
, although I do hope that thewhole process brings you much
closer to clarity and being ableto make a decision for yourself
that truly makes sense.
But this question is intendedto open up a line of
(06:32):
communication between you andyour nervous system in a way
that may or may not have beenavailable to you before, so that
your system, essentially, canreally weigh in and help guide
you in the decision-makingprocess.
And if you are not familiar witha nervous system practice or
with tuning into your body, thatis totally okay.
You may have even been taughtto ignore cues from your body in
(06:56):
your nervous system, so thismay feel very unfamiliar and
therefore it might actually feelthreatening or dangerous and
you might not be interested indoing it at all.
And if that's where you are,that's totally understandable
and okay.
You're welcome to stay tuned inand listen and not participate
in the activity directly, oryou're welcome to shut this off
right now and come back anothertime when you're feeling safer
(07:19):
and more curious, or do whatevermakes sense to you.
But this is an invitation, asalways, for you to pay attention
to what makes sense to you.
But this is an invitation, asalways, for you to pay attention
to what makes sense to you, andit's an offering of a practice
that has been helpful for me andthat's why I'm sharing it with
you.
And if you are more familiarwith a practice of tuning into
your system and tuning into yoursomatic experience, then you're
(07:40):
also welcome, of course, toparticipate in this activity and
see what comes up for you.
And, as always, please feelfree to participate in whatever
way makes sense to you at anytime during either of the
exercises.
So I'm going to take youthrough two different types of
polyvagal exercises thatessentially tap into your
nervous system and the wisdomthat is stored there.
(08:01):
So just a brief review.
Your nervous system can be inone of three different states.
The first state is a state ofsafety and grounding, connection
, balance.
It's a state of feeling okayenough to be able to move
through the world, problem solve, connect, and it's called
ventral vagal.
And then the other two statesare survival states.
(08:21):
The first survival state iscalled sympathetic and it's also
often referred to as your fightor flight response.
And so this is a mobilizedstate of defense I'm sensing
threat and I have to dosomething about it, I have to
take action.
And then you also have a secondsurvival state which is called
dorsal vagal.
It is essentially your freezeresponse and it is a state of
(08:42):
shutdown and collapse and beingwithdrawn in order to protect
yourself.
So for this first exercise, it'sa very simple check-in to
notice what comes up in yoursystem when you think about
staying in the relationship orleaving and having that sense of
that ventral energy movingtowards wanting to connect or
something more of a fight orflight energy, wanting to kind
(09:04):
of attack or run away or some ofthat dorsal flavor of shutting
down, withdrawing, beingdisconnected or detached.
So I want you to just firsttake a moment, take a breath and
get settled wherever you are.
If you're driving or doingsomething where you can't quite
get settled, then perhaps youcan listen to this exercise now
(09:27):
or you can pause and you canpick it up again later when
you're somewhere else, or youcan try it in a way that makes
sense for you wherever you are.
But if you're sitting down, oreven if you're standing, if
you're able to tune in, just totake a moment, see if you can
ground into either where you'resitting, feel the support of the
(09:50):
chair or whatever is underneathyou, and you can feel the
support of your feet on theground, on the floor, wherever
you're standing, and just takethis moment to tune in, drop
down from the experience of yourmind and move down into your
system and think about stayingin this relationship with your
(10:13):
partner.
Think about the way things arenow.
You can think about how you'dlike them to be, perhaps, or the
relationship work that may needto be done in order to get
where you would like to be or tohave the relationship that
feels the way you'd like it tofeel, and just notice what comes
up in your system.
Is there a sense of movingtowards?
(10:36):
Is there a sense of moving awayor fighting against, pushing
against?
Is there a sense of detachmentor disconnection?
Are there any other bodysensations that emerge or any
emotions that you notice, anythoughts that come up Perhaps
(10:59):
there's an image or a color andjust take a few breaths, just
let yourself notice what comesup when you think about being
with your partner, staying withyour partner in this
relationship.
And now take a cleansing breathand let it go.
(11:27):
And now we'll do the same thing.
But now think about making thechoice to end your current
relationship so you no longerhave the same type of connection
that you currently do with yourpartner.
Try to imagine being in thatspace of having broken up or
separated or divorced and againcheck in to your system, notice
(11:55):
if you have a sense of movingtowards this experience or
moving away, if there's more ofa pushing against feeling or
again a detached or disconnectedfeeling.
What body sensations come upany emotions, thoughts, images,
(12:18):
colors.
And then just take another deepbreath in, perhaps shake it out
, shake your arms and your legs,sort of do a little reset and
just take a moment to see whatcame up and see what you noticed
(12:39):
.
You might want to pause here,take notes, journal, document,
dance, move, paint, draw, writea poem, take a break perhaps and
again, this is not designed togive you a final, definitive
answer about whether you shouldstay in this relationship or
leave it.
But this practice of checkingin with your nervous system, not
(13:01):
just about decisions that youmake but as you're experiencing
your relationship, is a reallypowerful practice, and I will
talk with you so much about howpolyvagal theory in particular
has transformed my relationshipwith myself and with my partner,
also even with my children, andreally just changed how I move
in the world.
So I will talk much more aboutthat in future episodes, but for
(13:24):
today it's really just thisbeginning invitation to tap into
the wisdom that you have, thatyou may not even know you have,
but it is absolutely there.
If that feels like enough fornow, then you are welcome to end
there.
But I also wanted to shareanother special polyvagal
exercise about making changes inyour life and heading into the
(13:46):
unknown.
Whether you stay or go, thereis a quality of unknown, because
if you choose to stay, youdon't really know what your
future looks like or the workthat needs to be done, or what
six months from now will reallylook like, or a year from now,
and if you choose to leave, youdon't know what that looks like
either.
So both choices have an elementof the unknown, even though, of
(14:07):
course, staying may have morefamiliarity because this is the
space that you've been in andyou know so.
This exercise is called leapsand landings and you can find it
in deb dana's book anchored,which I've mentioned before and
I'm sure I will mention againand I will leave a link for
anchored in the show notes ifyou're interested in checking it
(14:28):
out, which I do highlyrecommend.
So this is a slightly adaptedversion from what's in the book
to explore the future of yourrelationship.
If you're willing and interestedand it makes sense for you to
do this exercise in this moment,I invite you to start by just
taking a deep breath.
If you want to take anothercouple of breaths, you're
welcome to pause me here and Iinvite you to observe where you
(14:51):
are right now.
Think about the patterns inyour relationship that you are
engaging in or creating orreacting to that do not feel
nourishing in your system, and Iinvite you to hold compassion
for yourself about this patternthat no longer feels like it's
(15:13):
serving you, that's no longernourishing you, to know that
this pattern showed up in youand in your partner and in your
relationship in order to protectyou.
Its initial purpose was forsurvival.
This pattern did not emerge tocause you hurt and pain and make
you miserable.
(15:34):
It was designed to take care ofyou because our nervous system
and our brain is designed toprotect us.
So take a moment to acknowledgethis.
This concept that there'sunconscious patterns, or that
the things that are causing somuch trouble for us in our
relationship now actually arerooted in protection, might be a
(15:55):
new concept to you and it mightbe confusing or hard to believe
or hard to hold on to.
And if that's where you are, oranywhere else that you are, for
that matter, just acknowledgethat whatever thoughts come up
right now.
If you're curious to learn more, this is certainly a topic that
I will cover and talk moreabout, but for now, you can just
(16:17):
know that our patterns ofprotection do emerge because our
nervous system is actuallydoing its job, and our nervous
system and our brains do tend todo a very good job of
protecting us.
They are just responding tocues of danger and cues of
safety, as they're meant to do,and there's nothing wrong with
(16:38):
us for having these patterns ofprotection.
And sometimes we can makedecisions to work with those
patterns in our relationships orwe can make choices to work
with those patterns outside ofour current relationship.
So, whether this idea is new toyou, or if you're familiar with
it, if it's confusing or hardto hold on to or you're curious
(17:00):
about it, whatever is coming upfor you, you can just notice
that.
For now, we will justacknowledge that these patterns
that are causing such troublefor us, creating such conflict
for us in our currentrelationship, were, in fact,
designed to protect us.
So just notice what's coming upfor you in this moment,
(17:20):
thinking about these patternsthat exist for you.
Notice your body, sensations,your feelings, thoughts or
images, colors or anything elsethat comes up for you.
If you'd like to pause here andjournal or paint or draw or
dance or take a break or doanything else that makes sense
(17:42):
for you, you're welcome to dothat.
Next, I invite you to considerwhat it would be like to let go
of this pattern in yourrelationship.
In this case, the two pathsthat we'll think about would
either be staying with yourcurrent partner and creating a
relationship that feels bettertogether, or the other path
(18:02):
would be choosing to end yourrelationship and moving on to
the next phase without yourpartner.
I will walk you through both ofthese so you can explore what
comes up for you First imaginestepping out of your current
pattern by staying with yourpartner and figuring out what
the work of relationship meansto the two of you and what that
(18:24):
could be to do it together.
And, as you see yourself doingthat, look for any worries or
fears or concerns that come up.
And complete this sentence.
If I stay with my partner andstep out of this pattern then
and allow yourself to identifyand notice anything that comes
(18:49):
up that feels like it may get inyour way, do try to quiet your
mind and actually tune into yournervous system's answer, this
can be quite a magicalexperience that words just
appear for you.
And now let's look for hope bycompleting the same sentence.
(19:09):
If I stay with my partner andstep out of this pattern then
and again notice what's comingup in your system the sensations
, the emotions, thoughts, images, colors.
You're welcome to pause, totake more time here, to document
in a way that feels like itmakes sense, or to take a break.
(19:34):
And next we'll do the sameprocess, exploring the
experience of letting go.
But this time imagine steppingout of your current pattern by
ending the relationship withyour partner and, as you see
yourself doing that again, lookfor worries or fears or concerns
that come up by completing thissentence.
Worries or fears or concernsthat come up by completing this
(19:55):
sentence.
If I ended the relationshipwith my partner and stepped out
of this pattern, then and listento whatever comes up that feels
like it could get in your wayAgain.
Tune into your nervous systemmessages and give space for
whatever needs to come up tocome up and allow space for
whatever needs to come up tocome up and allow space for
whatever needs to be heard to beheard.
And now let's look for hope bycompleting the same sentence If
(20:19):
I ended the relationship with mypartner and stepped out of this
pattern, then, and once againnotice what's coming up in your
system right now, the sensationsand feelings, thoughts and
images, colors and anything elsethat may come up.
And again, you're welcome topause here for whatever reason
(20:42):
and do whatever makes sense foryou.
Now I invite you to considerwhat it would be like to take
one step out of your familiarpattern into the unknown.
Imagine this experience ofactually taking a step, and if
you're a visual person, maybeyou'll see a bridge or a
mountain or a path through thewoods.
(21:05):
If you're not a visual person,that's perfectly okay, just
imagine taking one step andnotice whatever comes up for you
, and remember that you don'tknow yet where you are heading.
What you know is that you'reready to step out of an old
adaptive survival pattern, apattern that emerged initially
(21:28):
to protect you and is no longerserving you.
You may notice that the unknownevokes a sense of danger or
threat in your nervous system,and if you notice this, if you
notice impatience or judgment orfear or wanting to stop, or
feeling angry or anxious oranything that feels
(21:49):
dysregulating, see if you canreach for something that feels a
little more grounding and safeand regulating.
Take a breath, move your body.
If pausing this exercise makessense to you, please do that.
If you're able to groundyourself and anchor in some of
(22:09):
that ventral energy and you'reable to feel safe enough to
continue, see yourself takingthe leap that will lead you to
somewhere new but not yet known.
Now I invite you to see yourselflanding in a new place.
You don't have to be able tosee everything in this new place
(22:32):
.
You don't have to knoweverything about it yet.
Tune into your system and justnotice that you are held safely
here in this new place that youdo not yet know.
See if you can allow yourselfto be curious and know that it's
okay to be in this place of notknowing.
Look around this new place andnotice anything that there is
(22:56):
for you to notice Again, thesensations or the thoughts, the
feelings, images, colors.
And again you can feel free topause or document and if you're
still here with me, you can takea breath and again, maybe shake
it out and just notice whatthat activity was like.
(23:18):
Notice if you were able to haveenough cues of safety to
actually be able to imagineyourself taking the leap.
And notice if any insightsemerged, any messages, any
learnings, any information.
And that's what this all reallyis.
It's about getting informationfrom your nervous system.
It's about tuning in and askingthe getting information from
your nervous system.
It's about tuning in and askingthe questions and allowing your
(23:40):
nervous system to give you theanswers that'll help to guide
you.
I hope that these experienceswere helpful.
To be honest, I do not know howthey will translate through the
podcast.
I'm very open to feedback ifyou loved it or if you didn't
like it at all or if it didn'tfeel great through a podcast,
but I felt strongly that thebest way to understand nervous
(24:03):
system work and somatic work isto actually do it and to
experience it, and I didn't wantthis episode to be a purely
cognitive exercise where I justtalked, exercise where I just
talked.
I wanted to invite you to tunein and maybe try something new,
or to do something that youalready practice, maybe in a new
way.
But I have finally made itthrough all seven questions and,
(24:27):
again, I hope that they havebeen helpful for you.
I invite you to connect with meon Instagram, at
trishsanderslcsw, and let meknow what this experience was
like for you.
I'm so very curious and I lookforward to completing this
series of episodes.
For now, I'm sure I will talkagain about making conscious
decisions, about staying inchallenging relationships, but
(24:49):
for now we will wrap up and Ilook forward to connecting with
you next time.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
(25:11):
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
(25:34):
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
(26:01):
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
(26:21):
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
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