May 7, 2025 • 32 mins
Have you ever noticed that your attempts to help your partner through depression, work stress, or life challenges often backfire? There's a reason your well-intentioned support sometimes lands as criticism or pressure—and it has everything to do with your nervous system.
Drawing from both professional expertise and twenty years in a relationship with a partner who experienced depression, Trish Sanders reveals the hidden dynamic that transforms our genuine desire to help into something that actually increases disconnection. That urgent need to fix your partner's problems isn't just about compassion—it's often your own nervous system in survival mode, perceiving their struggle as a threat to your relationship stability and happiness.
This episode introduces the concept of "rooted response"—a revolutionary approach to supporting your partner without triggering defensive reactions. You'll learn to recognize when you've shifted into fix-it mode, how to regulate your own nervous system first, and specific techniques for offering support that actually lands as supportive. From asking for an appointment before offering help to using "see, know, believe" statements that counter your partner's negative self-beliefs, these practical tools will transform how you show up during difficult moments.
The most powerful support isn't about having all the answers or pushing your partner toward solutions. It's about creating safety for both nervous systems so genuine connection and healing can emerge. Whether you're the partner of someone with depression or simply navigating the everyday challenges of relationship life, this episode offers a path forward that honors both people's needs and abilities.
Ready to break the cycle of unhelpful helping? This conversation might be the turning point your relationship needs.
- If you are looking to take the first step towards improving your connection and communication with your partner, check out this FREE monthly webinar on "Becoming a Conscious Couple,".
- If you and your partner are ready to co-create the roadmap to the relationship of your dreams, join us for the next in-person "Getting the Love You Want" Weekend Couples Retreat!
For support in how to have deeper connections and better communication in the relationships that matter most in your life, follow the host, Trish Sanders on Instagram , Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Do you frequently find yourselfin the position of feeling like
it's your job to emotionallysupport your partner, whether it
be with their mental health,how they show up in your
relationship, the problemsthey're dealing with at work or
any other life challenge?
Do you find yourself taking ona significant part of the mental
(00:22):
load for figuring out whatneeds to be done, and then do
you feel like it's yourresponsibility to actually take
action or motivate your partnerto do something, because if you
don't, you fear that nothingwill ever actually happen.
Despite all of thiswell-intentioned effort, do you
find that your partner doesn'tusually seem to appreciate your
help, and perhaps yourhelpfulness is even causing
(00:45):
arguments, or somehow you findthat it ends up making things
even worse?
If you are longing to know whatyou actually can do to help
make things better for both youand your partner, keep listening
.
In today's episode, I willreview the nervous system's role
in this often exhausting cycleand share concrete steps about
(01:06):
how to do things differently ina way that can actually be
helpful.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I'm eager to share more, so
let's get started.
So, if you've been listening tomy recent episodes, you will
know that the last sevenepisodes have been an
exploration in making aconscious decision about whether
(01:26):
or not you want to stay in yourrelationship.
I felt like I had to make thoseepisodes early in my podcast
because I want people to knowthat leaving a relationship is,
in fact, always an option, and Ifeel like it's really important
for me to put that out there,because I think there are
certain relationships out thereabsolutely for sure that make
(01:46):
sense.
To end, however, I am nowmoving on to if you have made a
conscious decision and you arestaying in this relationship,
even if you don't know if you'regoing to stay in it forever, if
you have decided that you wantto stay in your relationship now
I am moving on to being able tomake content about things that
really are especially near anddear to my heart, because I
myself have made the consciouschoice time and time again over
(02:09):
now more than 20 years to staywith my partner in what it has
been a difficult relationship alot of the time, and through
making the choice to stay, Ihave really learned a lot,
because I didn't make the choiceto stay and continue to be
miserable.
That was never on the table.
For me, the choice was eitherI'm going to stay in this
relationship and figure out howto do it in a way that feels
better for both of us, or,ultimately, I would have to
(02:30):
leave.
I'm so excited to share with youtoday because, if you're
listening to this podcast, myguess is that perhaps you are in
a difficult relationship, or arelationship that feels
difficult more of the time thanyou'd like it to, and you'd like
to know what to do, and sotoday, that's what we're going
to start really talking about.
If you're like me, when you seeyour partner struggling, having
a hard time, facing somethingtough in life, you may often or
(02:53):
at least sometimes, feel theurge to help them.
The approach to helpfulnessthat I'm going to talk about
today definitely includes tryingto support your partner through
a depressive episode or a timewhen they're feeling
disconnected or low.
I do want to just say that ifyour partner is in a deep
depression, if suicidal ideationis present, if they're thinking
about harming themselves insome way, then this is not the
(03:15):
response that I would recommendfor you.
That is a response that needsan emergency room or mental
health support, or somethingmore than what I'm going to talk
about today.
I'm talking about how torespond relationally when your
partner is dealing with ahardship, and certainly that
could be a mild to a moderatedepressive episode.
It could also just be whenthey're having trouble at work
(03:36):
or when they're having problemswith their family, or there's
some conflict going on betweenyour partner and your kids, or
they're experiencing socialchallenges.
I know for me.
Sometimes I feel like I need tobe my husband's social director
and I feel an urge to step inand support him, going out and
connecting and being social.
So what I'm talking about todayis when you want to help your
(03:57):
partner and you have thatpressing urge to do so.
I want to talk about what'sgoing on there and an
alternative actually severalalternatives to what you can do
that might be more helpful forboth you and your partner.
So back when my husband waspretty regularly in a state of
moderate to even severedepression, I would try to be a
(04:20):
very helpful partner.
At least I thought that that'swhat I was trying to do.
In my heart that's what I wastrying to do.
I'm a therapist after all.
I had good ideas about how todeal with depression and anxiety
.
I wanted him to feel happier.
I wanted him to feel better.
I wanted us to feel happier asa couple.
I wanted our family to feelhappier with our son when he was
younger, and so I would oftencome at him with a laundry list
(04:43):
of things that he could do thatwould perhaps help his situation
, and it was long and it wasgoing to therapy.
And books to read, andaffirmations on little post-it
notes stuck them on our mirror.
There were workbooks that Iordered for him about how to
deal with anxiety.
There were classes that Iwanted him to take mindful
self-compassion or I wanted himto get a hobby I wanted him to
(05:05):
get a mindful self-compassion orI wanted him to get a hobby, I
wanted him to get a new job.
I mean, the list goes on and onand on.
And what I found was that when Iwould come to him in what I was
intending to be a supportiveway, a lot of the time he felt
very criticized, very judged.
He responded often with angeror frustration, and I felt
(05:27):
pretty confused, to be quitehonest.
Back then, looking back, itseemed so crystal clear and
obvious as to what was going on,but in the moment it felt like
I'm just trying to help you.
Why don't you let me help you?
Which was really frustratingfor me as well.
So what I came to learn overtime, thankfully, was that urge
to help him, to pull him out ofa depressive episode, or to give
(05:51):
him advice on how to fix hiswork problem or his family
problem, or what I wasperceiving as a problem between
him and our son, or his socialchallenges, whatever they were.
I realized that that urge, thatpressured need to fix like I
have to do something here, likeI just couldn't sit on my hands
and wait any longer.
I had to do something.
(06:11):
That urge, though, in my heartof hearts, absolutely had root
in me actually wanting to helpmy husband and wanting him to
feel better.
Of course I love him.
I wanted him to feel better.
I didn't want him to besuffering in any way, just like
I don't want my children to besuffering in any way.
But what I really found to betrue is that the other piece,
and maybe even a more deeplyrooted piece, of that
(06:34):
helpfulness I'll call thatquote-unquote helpfulness was
actually coming from my ownsurvival response.
Essentially, I was feelingthreatened that if he wasn't
happy, if he was struggling insome place in his life then that
meant that we couldn't be happytogether.
My house was sort of unpleasantto be in because there was a
lot of tension or stress ornegative vibes going on and a
(06:56):
lot of disconnection happening,and so that didn't feel good and
that experience reallytriggered my old unconscious
stories that I didn't deserve tobe happy and so when he was
struggling in some way, eventhough I did in fact want to
help him that's really truethere was also a huge part of me
that also felt threatenedmyself, which triggered my
(07:17):
sympathetic fight or flightresponse and that need to fix,
that need to do something, thatneed to help, was not really
coming from this rooted place ofyou.
Know what?
I'm here for you, we're inpartnership, we're going to
figure this out.
I believe in you.
I certainly felt that way, butin those moments, those specific
moments, my nervous system wasnot in a state of ventral safety
(07:38):
where I had hope and access toconnecting in a meaningful way.
My nervous system moved into asympathetic fight or flight
response and my action wascoming from that place.
This was mind-blowing for mebecause I started to understand
why all of my helpfulness, myattempts at helpfulness, were
landing in such a negative wayfor my partner Because
(08:00):
essentially, my nervous systemwas coming from a survival
attack mode, like I have to dosomething, I have to fix
something, and that was reallyscary for my partner.
My nervous system was comingfrom a survival attack mode,
like I have to do something, Ihave to fix something, and that
was really scary for mypartner's nervous system and it
didn't land well.
It landed as an attack, itlanded as the criticism, the
judgment me schooling him, meknowing better than him and it
really created a powerlessdynamic that he was powerless,
(08:23):
that I was this big, mighty, Idon't know, know-it-all probably
I didn't really know it all atall but that I was really coming
at him and it felt reallydangerous to his nervous system.
So of course, he was going todefend.
When I started to realize thisand how I was contributing to
this nightmare in ourrelationship, it was one of the
(08:43):
most eye-opening experiencesthat I've had and my
understanding of the dynamicthat was happening, plus my
understanding of the nervoussystem connection, which has
just truly opened up so muchmore possibility for me, and so
I want to talk to you todayabout what I have figured out,
what to do instead when youreally, really want to help your
partner because you want themto feel better.
(09:05):
You want to feel better, youwant your relationship and your
family to feel better.
So what do you do if you're notsupposed to just fix and help
and do right?
A lot of us don't know whatwe're supposed to do.
You know, we feel like ouroxygen has been cut off.
We can't breathe.
If I can't fix, do help, whatdo I do?
So I'm here to tell you don'tworry, there is something you
(09:25):
can do.
You actually have some choiceabout how to respond that really
can ultimately work a lotbetter for you and your partner.
So what do you do?
I call it rooted response, andthis is rooted in nervous system
work.
What rooted response means isbeing able to choose a conscious
response when you and yournervous system are rooted in a
(09:48):
place of safety.
And choosing a response whenyour nervous system is feeling
safe, when you're feelinggrounded, allows you to choose
to respond in a way that has abetter chance at being helpful,
a better chance at improving thesituation.
It also has a better chance oflanding as helpful and
supportive in your partner'snervous system because you're in
(10:10):
a state of safety, and so whenit's coming from that state of
safety, you're sending somethingthat actually feels different
when it's received by yourpartner.
Now, there is no guarantee thatyour partner will be able to
receive your response well, andthat has to do with the state of
their nervous system when theyreceive the response.
So I just want you to know thatthis is not an absolutely
(10:31):
magical thing, but I'll talkmuch more in time, but I really
wanted to give you somepractical tools today about what
rooted response can look like.
So I want to say that I reallynotice a huge difference in
myself and my body when I'm in aplace of sort of that pressured
, have to need to fix survivalresponse, where I feel very much
(10:53):
in my chest.
I feel lifted out of my seat, Ifeel pulled forward into this,
like I have to do something.
It feels very frantic, verychaotic.
A lot of the time there's a lotof like spinning thoughts sort
of experience happening for me,whereas when I'm in a rooted
response, I literally feelrooted back in my seat.
I literally can feel myself sitdown.
The weight of my body, mycenter of gravity, changes in my
(11:15):
physical body experience and Ican really notice that.
So it's a very good indicatorwhen you start to develop this
body awareness, because it'llreally help guide you where your
system is and where you'reresponding from.
So the first thing that youneed to do to have a rooted
response is to notice when youare not having a rooted response
.
In other words, you arereacting.
A reaction is an unconscious,automatic way that you react to
(11:40):
a situation, and it comes fromthe nervous system identifying
that there's a threat, and so itgoes into survival, and so you
can call it reactivity, you cancall it dysregulation, you can
call it a reaction, you can callit unhelpful, you can call it
whatever you want, but to notice, ooh, my nervous system is no
longer in a grounded, safe space, I have moved into a reaction,
(12:02):
I have moved into dysregulation.
And to notice that and namethat, and just noticing and
naming that alone, can help youto move just one step back
towards being more regulated.
So that really is a veryimportant step and it's
something you probably will haveto practice because you might
not be able to catch yourselfright away.
Your body, as I mentionedearlier, is very, very helpful
(12:23):
because your body will give youa lot of clues and everyone's
body and system is, in factdifferent.
But when we're in a mobilizedresponse to threat, when we're
like something's happening Ihave to do something about it,
there are body cues that happen,you know.
Our heart rate speeds up, ourbreathing can quicken and we can
feel hot.
I certainly get sweaty when I'min that sympathetic, mobilized
(12:45):
response and again I physicallynotice a sense of my chest being
pulled into the air and I feellike I'm moving into action,
like I'm about to leap.
I feel like a lion about topounce on their prey.
It's very much that feeling inmy body when I move into a
sympathetic response.
The more you start to noticewhat your body sensations are
when you're in sympathetic andwhen you're in a mobilized
response to threat, the morehelpful it'll be to identify it.
(13:08):
While you are working on that,you can also notice the feelings
that come up feeling pressured,feeling desperate, feeling very
intense.
Your partner may also tell youthat you're intense.
It also comes with a feeling ofyou have to like I have to do
something about it.
If I don't do anything about it, who will right?
So these are thoughts andfeelings that you can start to
notice that also may very muchgo along with your experience of
(13:29):
being in a mobilized responseto threat, and a really good
sign that is not an absolutedefinite, but it's a very good
moment to stop and pause is ifyour partner is not receiving
you as supportive so you mightbe in a very eventual grounded,
safe place and coming to yourpartner, and if their nervous
system is dysregulated, ifthey're in a survival mode, they
(13:50):
might not be able to receivethat, so it may not be a
reflection on you, but if yourpartner is not receiving you as
safe, then that's a good time tostop and pause and wonder am I
coming from a place of safety?
And, as I said, your partnermight describe you as being too
intense, being too much.
You might notice that they'regetting smaller, pulling back,
they might be having their ownfight, response and saying some
(14:13):
things that may sound criticalor judgmental of you that's a
pretty common experience as wellor they might be shrinking and
trying to get away, shuttingdown, leaving the room, that
kind of thing.
So these are all littleindicators that maybe there's
something going on here that'sreally not helpful and that you
and your partner have probablyfound yourself in a dysregulated
state.
If you notice these things,take pause and ideally you'll
(14:37):
get to a place where you'll beable to communicate with your
partner, even in just some smallway, that you're taking a
moment.
You're going to take a littlebreak so that you yourself can
regularly reconnect with a senseof safety, calm down,
essentially.
So if you're in a place and youfeel like you can stay
physically present with yourpartner, if that feels safe
enough to your system, you cansay something like I don't want
to contribute to an unhelpfulconversation that makes both of
(15:00):
us feel more unsafe.
I'm just going to be quiet fora few moments.
I'm still here with you, though, and sort of just let them know
.
Now I can tell you if you'relike me, your partner may be
flabbergasted and completelyshocked if you say that you're
going to take pause and be quietfor a few moments.
Historically, it has not been avery common situation where I
take pause and quiet down.
(15:21):
When I'm dysregulated, Idefinitely have a strong
tendency to go into a lot ofwords, which, of course, lands
as an attack, so much of thetime for my husband.
But if you can try it, see howit goes and let me know If you
physically need to sort of beseparated from your partner for
a moment to be able to get backto that place of safety for
yourself.
Then, if possible, try to letyour partner know that and you
(15:43):
can say hey, I noticed that mynervous system is in a
sympathetic response here andwhatever I say is probably not
going to help the situation.
It's going to make both you andI feel worse.
So I'm just gonna take a quickbreak, I'm gonna go for a little
walk and I'll be back in a fewminutes and I will check in
later when I come back to see ifyou're available to connect.
Then I love you and you canthen go do that and you can have
(16:04):
that space to regulate.
I talk about regulation, andregulation is a big topic, the
way I use it.
I'm talking about it as anervous system experience when
you feel unsafe and thattriggers a survival response in
our nervous system and we gointo sympathetic fight or flight
, mobilized response to threator dorsal, shut down, collapse,
(16:25):
withdraw, freeze response toprotect us.
Self-regulation means findingour way back to safety, allowing
our nervous system, helping ournervous system find its way
back to safety.
There's a lot of wonderfulinformation out there on
self-regulation.
I will talk bucket loads, I'msure about self-regulation in
greater detail, but just a fewquick tips for now.
Taking a breath or two or threeat least 90 seconds worth, I
(16:48):
would say or taking a few goodsighs Just a can be a real good
nervous system reset.
Moving is very helpful, as Imentioned.
Going for that walk, even ifit's just getting up and going
into the next room, if you cango outside get a breath of fresh
air those can be veryregulating experiences when you
have a little bit moreregulation, a little bit more
(17:09):
safety.
Something that I think isabsolutely necessary and helpful
to do in this moment, whenyou're trying to figure out how
to help your partner and helpyourself, is to notice the
stories that are coming up inyour mind at that moment.
This is so important because,as I've talked about in previous
episodes, the interpretationsthat we make about ourselves and
our partners, others and thegreater world are directly
(17:32):
linked to the state our nervoussystem is in at that time.
So when we're dysregulated,we're probably going to think
thoughts like I can't ever behappy or my partner just needs
to do something and ourrelationship would be better,
and there may also be a littleand I know what they should do
quality to that thought.
You might be fantasizing aboutleaving, or you might just be
(17:53):
thinking that your partner is acomplete and total jerk and they
don't really care about you andthe relationship isn't really
important to them, or, no matterwhat you do, it's not enough.
So there's a lot of narrativesthat can come up when you're in
dysregulation and we can reallybelieve those very completely.
I know because my nervous systemworks just the same way as
yours.
So to notice those stories, tobegin to notice and when you can
(18:16):
move back to a little bit moreregulation, even if it's just
like kind of having a littlethread to eventual safe state,
you don't have to be fully inthis absolute zen, like
everything is wonderful in theworld kind of place.
If you can get there, that'ssuper great too.
But okay enough, truly is okayenough.
Think about those thoughtsagain and see what comes up.
Are they the same thoughts?
Have they transformed at all?
(18:37):
Can there be more of a sense?
Of relationships can be hard, ormy partner and I are really
both trying our best and we justhaven't quite figured out some
things yet, or I know we reallyboth want something better than
this and I think we can figureit out together right so we can
start to have this shift.
That purely comes from beingable to focus on the shift of
(18:57):
our nervous system, which is whyregulation is so incredibly
important, and regulation isabsolutely a primary
responsibility of all humans.
It is also, as a parent, ourjob to help teach our children
how to regulate, but more onthat in another episode.
So here we go.
I told you that when you're inthat state of you want to do
something to help your partner,I was going to tell you some
things that you could do, andthese are the three choices you
(19:19):
have once you have regulated.
So if you can't actually quiteget to a really grounded place
and you're still having sometrouble seeing your partner in a
positive light, don't worry,you have not failed
self-regulation.
Our nervous system can take timeto get back to that feeling of
safety, and there could be a lotof things going on, a lot of
(19:40):
old unconscious stories, oldneural pathways that have been
activated, and you might justsort of be a little bit more
attached to the dysregulation inthis moment.
You just might need a littlebit more time.
So if that's where you're at,then I would recommend some
restorative reflection.
Restorative reflection is timefor you.
Restorative reflection is notabout your partner in this
(20:01):
moment.
Please know that your takingtime for yourself will
absolutely benefit therelationship.
Pushing through is somethingthat many of us have learned and
often many of us value, but itis often not helpful at all.
So taking a moment to see whatdo I need right now?
Do I need more time?
Do I need to connect withanother relationship that feels
(20:21):
more accessible to me than mypartner right now?
This does not mean go andcomplain and vent to your best
friend about how annoying yourpartner is and how difficult
they are, although I candefinitely tell you I have done
that many a time.
Sometimes it's been helpful,sometimes not.
Depends who I'm venting to.
There's a lot of gray spotsthere, but generally speaking,
if you're going and venting toyour friend about how awful your
partner is, you're probablyincreasing your dysregulation
(20:44):
and probably not moving towardsa sense of safety and connection
, but perhaps going and gettingsome support and just
acknowledging like sometimesrelationships are hard and I
could really just use, you know,a good laugh or can we grab a
cup of coffee, something likethat, or it could actually be
that you need rest.
I mean relationship, work andlife, work, adulting in general
is pretty challenging, andsometimes we just need to take a
(21:06):
break, take a nap.
Maybe we just need to go tosleep and say, hey, let's
revisit this in the morning,when I have more energy.
Right Like pushing throughuntil midnight, 1am, 2am, 3.m.
Staying up all night trying totalk about an issue, going in
circles, arguing, escalating,becoming more dysregulated Again
, I have been there.
It is not effective, it is nothelpful and you're not doing
(21:28):
anyone any favors.
It might feel really hard tosay, okay, let's just stop this.
But the more you practice thatskill of like, hey, this is not
helpful, we're not doinganything that's making this
better.
So, with love, let's take abreak.
And that's what restorativereflection is.
It's with love let's take abreak and for you to be able to
look at what your needs are, sothat you can take the time that
(21:48):
you need and deserve to get backto a feeling of safety.
Now, if you can get your nervoussystem back to feeling more
safe, more grounded, and you'reable to start to see your
partner again in more positivelight, hold them in with more
positive regard, feel a littlebit more hope about your
relationship, that's a reallygood indicator as well
Hopefulness.
Hopefulness is only availableto us when our nervous system is
in a ventral state.
So if you're feeling hopeful,excellent sign, you're in the
(22:10):
place that you want to be in andthen you can take what I refer
to as anchored action.
So anchored action, as I see it, applies in many, many
different situations, and I willtalk at great length about what
that looks like in the world.
In this particular case, I'mgoing to give you a little
step-by-step of what anchoredaction could look like.
It certainly could look adifferent way, but this is sort
(22:31):
of a general format that I havefound helpful.
So when I want to help mypartner, I want to support them
and I actually want them to feelthat I have found helpful.
So when I wanna help my partner, I wanna support them and I
actually want them to feel thatI'm supportive and I'm able to
regulate myself and I'm able tofeel safe enough to be able to
come and open up connection withthem.
I can come back to my partner,and the very first thing that I
would highly recommend is, in aMAGO relationship therapy that I
(22:54):
practice, the first thing thatwe do when starting a dialogue
is to ask for an appointment.
This is a highly valuable tool.
To say, hey, I'd like to take amoment to chat is now a good
time for you.
This is a beautiful way torespect your partner's nervous
system and communicate your need.
So step number one ask for anappointment and let your partner
know hey, I'd like to be ableto talk about what happened and
(23:15):
figure this out together.
Is now a good time.
If it is, and they say, yeah,sure, because their nervous
system recognized that yournervous system was in a place of
safety.
You weren't like coming toattack them with all of your to
do's and should's and you knowall the maybe very helpful
information.
I do think I have a lot ofhelpful information, but how I
present it is pretty, prettyimportant, and I've not always
done such a great job presentingmy helpful information to my
(23:36):
husband, and I also didn'talways honor my husband's own
brilliance that he had that Ididn't actually have to know all
the answers that he has his ownincredible wisdom for what he
needs.
So if you're in that place andyour partner says, yeah, sure,
let's talk, let's chat, great.
If your partner says, hey, I'mnot there yet, I don't want to
talk about this, they mightstill be dysregulated and they
(23:56):
might need to be in their ownstate of restorative reflection
where they can come back to astate of safety.
So you can let them know.
Okay, you know I'll check backin in a few minutes, or is it
okay if I check back in a fewminutes?
Or when would you like me tocheck back?
Or can you let me know whenyou're available?
Can you let me know when you'refeeling up to talking and
connecting?
And I imagine that if you havehad the experience where your
(24:17):
partner says, yeah, yeah, we'lltalk about it later, you may
have also had the experiencewhere later never happens.
And I understand, the more youpractice this experience of
working together in partnershipand having both nervous systems
come into a state of safety, themore that you will see that you
actually have the conversationslater and your partner actually
will come back and say, hey,can we talk about it?
(24:37):
I actually remember the veryfirst time that my husband came
back to me and said, hey, let'sdialogue about that, and it was
amazing.
So it does happen.
It might take a little bit oftime but it does happen.
So first ask for an appointmentis now a good time, and if your
partner says that it is fromthat rooted place, from that
(24:58):
place of safety, from that placeof knowing that you're going to
figure out things.
Sometimes life is hard,sometimes relationships are hard
.
I would recommend starting withwhat I refer to as a see, know,
believe, and this soundssomething like telling your
partner I see that it's hard foryou, I know that you're trying
your best and I believe that wecan figure this out.
So this, in polyvagal theory,is known as a disconfirming
(25:20):
experience, because your partner, just like your interpretations
about yourself and others andthe world, are tied to your
nervous system experience, yourpartner's interpretations about
themselves and the world, andyou are tied to their nervous
system experience, and so theyare thinking that they're not
good enough and that's why thisis hard.
It's not just that this can behard, right, whatever it is,
(25:41):
whether it's depression ordealing with a challenge at work
or at home or whatever, they'renot thinking that you see them
as trying their best.
You know they're thinking thatthey're not good enough, that
other people know how to do itbetter.
They're not thinking thatthere's a way to figure this out
.
They're thinking that this is adead end, it's hopeless,
they're not going to be able tofigure this out, and they just
have to either fight against itor give up, right?
(26:03):
So just by giving them some ofyour ventral energy, this gift
of what you see and know andbelieve to be true from that
ventral space, is disconfirmingthe beliefs that they may be
holding in that moment.
Now, again, if they are verydysregulated, they might not be
able to receive that beautifulventral energy.
They may be defended against it.
If that's the case, take abreath and you might say
(26:26):
something like you might not beable to receive this right now,
but I'm going to leave a littlebit of my ventral energy right
here next to you on the couch,and when you're ready to pick it
up, you could pick it up.
So let them know that you'rethere to support them in a way
that feels good for both of you.
And then anchored action canlook like giving your partner a
simple choice.
Notice, this is not you knowing, needing to know, this is not
(26:47):
you actually having all theanswers and a simple choice
might be is there something thatyou or I could do right now
that would feel helpful for you?
Giving a simple choice to yourpartner?
What a gift.
Just a little invitation.
Maybe they'll say yes, maybethey'll say no.
If you have some of your ownideas, you might ask this is
another version of anappointment Are you open to
hearing an idea or two that Ihave?
(27:09):
They might say yes, they mightsay no.
If they're able to receive youand they say, yeah, sure Tell me
.
Maybe you say hey, see you.
And they say yeah, sure, tellme.
Maybe you say hey, do you wantto go for a walk together?
Would you like to cuddle for afew minutes?
Would you like to connect?
Because problem solving canhappen after connection.
When we're rooted in safety,problem solving is available to
us.
When we are dysregulated, weare just doing everything that
we can do to survive and wemight figure stuff out, but not
(27:32):
in a really healthy, productiveproblem solving way of looking
at all the possibilities anddetermining the possible impact
of each thing and reallychoosing in this conscious way
like, oh, I think this is whatmight be most effective.
Survival is reactive by nature,because it needs to be quick,
it needs to be thoughtless.
You need to react immediatelyto protect yourself.
So this is a very differentexperience of that.
(27:53):
Now, if you don't quite feellike you need to take a total
break and be away from yourpartner for some restorative
reflection, but you also don'tfeel so anchored in ventral that
you can move into a fullanchored action response, then
you might want to try somethingthat I refer to as bonded being,
and bonded being is just beingin the presence of your partner,
(28:14):
without the problem solving,without the words.
This is something that I haveworked on for the last 10 years,
quite consciously.
I have definitely gotten betterat it.
I think I still have a ways togo.
I usually find myself in astate of either needing a little
bit of space to be able toregulate myself or I do find
(28:37):
that I can be able to be in someplace of an anchored action
state.
But the value and bonded beingfor many of us is so
extraordinary the experience ofbeing able to just be with our
partner, restorative reflectionin partnership together and I
can tell you that as someone whohas lived with depression for
my whole life, I know thebenefit.
(28:58):
I know what it feels like tonot have someone saying what do
you want to do, what do you needto do, what should we do?
What would help?
Because a lot of the time whenyou're sort of in a stuck place,
whether you're depressed ordealing with a challenge in your
life that kind of has youfeeling stuck.
Sometimes all those questionsfeel like too much, and so this
is just an experience of like,hey, you know what, we can
figure this out later.
Let's prioritize connecting.
(29:19):
So I hope that you have foundthis helpful.
Today.
I wanted to be able to give youa structure of how to respond
to situations, or how to beginto think about responding to
situations, and I look forwardto expanding on this and sharing
other related ideas in thefuture, because being in
relationship is, in fact, achallenge, certainly if you
yourself have depression or yourpartner has depression, or both
(29:41):
of you but also just dealingwith the challenges of life.
Again, adulting can be hard,relationships can be hard, and
nobody taught us about rootedresponding, and that's because
our parents didn't know, ourgrandparents didn't know they
were trying to survive, theywere just making ends meet, they
were just doing what needed tobe done, taking pause and
regulating and being able torespond from that place of
safety.
(30:01):
Sometimes it feels like aluxury, like I don't have time
to slow down.
Who has time for that?
Especially if you're a busyworking person, a busy working
parent, a busy adult adulting.
That can feel like a waste oftime, but the truth is is that
when we are in such a regularstate of reactivity, such a
state of survival, such a stateof dysregulation and even just a
little dysregulation isdysregulation.
(30:21):
So even like kind of beingannoyed, frustrated, you know, a
little bothered, you don't haveto be like all out raging or
full blown depressed.
That's all dysregulated and welive in a society where that has
become the norm, and I do notthink that it has to be the norm
.
I don't think that for ahealthy world it can be the norm
, and I think that being able toregulate yourself is exactly
(30:42):
what we need to be able to livein a more regulated world that
is safer and more connected foreveryone.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
(31:03):
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
(31:25):
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
(31:48):
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
(32:11):
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
(32:31):
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
Hello and welcome to the when Depression is in your
Bed podcast.
Do you frequently find yourselfin the position of feeling like
it's your job to emotionallysupport your partner, whether it
be with their mental health,how they show up in your
relationship, the problemsthey're dealing with at work or
any other life challenge?
Do you find yourself taking ona significant part of the mental
(00:22):
load for figuring out whatneeds to be done, and then do
you feel like it's yourresponsibility to actually take
action or motivate your partnerto do something, because if you
don't, you fear that nothingwill ever actually happen.
Despite all of thiswell-intentioned effort, do you
find that your partner doesn'tusually seem to appreciate your
help, and perhaps yourhelpfulness is even causing
(00:45):
arguments, or somehow you findthat it ends up making things
even worse?
If you are longing to know whatyou actually can do to help
make things better for both youand your partner, keep listening
.
In today's episode, I willreview the nervous system's role
in this often exhausting cycleand share concrete steps about
(01:06):
how to do things differently ina way that can actually be
helpful.
I'm your host, trish Sanders,and I'm eager to share more, so
let's get started.
So, if you've been listening tomy recent episodes, you will
know that the last sevenepisodes have been an
exploration in making aconscious decision about whether
(01:26):
or not you want to stay in yourrelationship.
I felt like I had to make thoseepisodes early in my podcast
because I want people to knowthat leaving a relationship is,
in fact, always an option, and Ifeel like it's really important
for me to put that out there,because I think there are
certain relationships out thereabsolutely for sure that make
(01:46):
sense.
To end, however, I am nowmoving on to if you have made a
conscious decision and you arestaying in this relationship,
even if you don't know if you'regoing to stay in it forever, if
you have decided that you wantto stay in your relationship now
I am moving on to being able tomake content about things that
really are especially near anddear to my heart, because I
myself have made the consciouschoice time and time again over
(02:09):
now more than 20 years to staywith my partner in what it has
been a difficult relationship alot of the time, and through
making the choice to stay, Ihave really learned a lot,
because I didn't make the choiceto stay and continue to be
miserable.
That was never on the table.
For me, the choice was eitherI'm going to stay in this
relationship and figure out howto do it in a way that feels
better for both of us, or,ultimately, I would have to
(02:30):
leave.
I'm so excited to share with youtoday because, if you're
listening to this podcast, myguess is that perhaps you are in
a difficult relationship, or arelationship that feels
difficult more of the time thanyou'd like it to, and you'd like
to know what to do, and sotoday, that's what we're going
to start really talking about.
If you're like me, when you seeyour partner struggling, having
a hard time, facing somethingtough in life, you may often or
(02:53):
at least sometimes, feel theurge to help them.
The approach to helpfulnessthat I'm going to talk about
today definitely includes tryingto support your partner through
a depressive episode or a timewhen they're feeling
disconnected or low.
I do want to just say that ifyour partner is in a deep
depression, if suicidal ideationis present, if they're thinking
about harming themselves insome way, then this is not the
(03:15):
response that I would recommendfor you.
That is a response that needsan emergency room or mental
health support, or somethingmore than what I'm going to talk
about today.
I'm talking about how torespond relationally when your
partner is dealing with ahardship, and certainly that
could be a mild to a moderatedepressive episode.
It could also just be whenthey're having trouble at work
(03:36):
or when they're having problemswith their family, or there's
some conflict going on betweenyour partner and your kids, or
they're experiencing socialchallenges.
I know for me.
Sometimes I feel like I need tobe my husband's social director
and I feel an urge to step inand support him, going out and
connecting and being social.
So what I'm talking about todayis when you want to help your
(03:57):
partner and you have thatpressing urge to do so.
I want to talk about what'sgoing on there and an
alternative actually severalalternatives to what you can do
that might be more helpful forboth you and your partner.
So back when my husband waspretty regularly in a state of
moderate to even severedepression, I would try to be a
(04:20):
very helpful partner.
At least I thought that that'swhat I was trying to do.
In my heart that's what I wastrying to do.
I'm a therapist after all.
I had good ideas about how todeal with depression and anxiety
.
I wanted him to feel happier.
I wanted him to feel better.
I wanted us to feel happier asa couple.
I wanted our family to feelhappier with our son when he was
younger, and so I would oftencome at him with a laundry list
(04:43):
of things that he could do thatwould perhaps help his situation
, and it was long and it wasgoing to therapy.
And books to read, andaffirmations on little post-it
notes stuck them on our mirror.
There were workbooks that Iordered for him about how to
deal with anxiety.
There were classes that Iwanted him to take mindful
self-compassion or I wanted himto get a hobby I wanted him to
(05:05):
get a mindful self-compassion orI wanted him to get a hobby, I
wanted him to get a new job.
I mean, the list goes on and onand on.
And what I found was that when Iwould come to him in what I was
intending to be a supportiveway, a lot of the time he felt
very criticized, very judged.
He responded often with angeror frustration, and I felt
(05:27):
pretty confused, to be quitehonest.
Back then, looking back, itseemed so crystal clear and
obvious as to what was going on,but in the moment it felt like
I'm just trying to help you.
Why don't you let me help you?
Which was really frustratingfor me as well.
So what I came to learn overtime, thankfully, was that urge
to help him, to pull him out ofa depressive episode, or to give
(05:51):
him advice on how to fix hiswork problem or his family
problem, or what I wasperceiving as a problem between
him and our son, or his socialchallenges, whatever they were.
I realized that that urge, thatpressured need to fix like I
have to do something here, likeI just couldn't sit on my hands
and wait any longer.
I had to do something.
(06:11):
That urge, though, in my heartof hearts, absolutely had root
in me actually wanting to helpmy husband and wanting him to
feel better.
Of course I love him.
I wanted him to feel better.
I didn't want him to besuffering in any way, just like
I don't want my children to besuffering in any way.
But what I really found to betrue is that the other piece,
and maybe even a more deeplyrooted piece, of that
(06:34):
helpfulness I'll call thatquote-unquote helpfulness was
actually coming from my ownsurvival response.
Essentially, I was feelingthreatened that if he wasn't
happy, if he was struggling insome place in his life then that
meant that we couldn't be happytogether.
My house was sort of unpleasantto be in because there was a
lot of tension or stress ornegative vibes going on and a
(06:56):
lot of disconnection happening,and so that didn't feel good and
that experience reallytriggered my old unconscious
stories that I didn't deserve tobe happy and so when he was
struggling in some way, eventhough I did in fact want to
help him that's really truethere was also a huge part of me
that also felt threatenedmyself, which triggered my
(07:17):
sympathetic fight or flightresponse and that need to fix,
that need to do something, thatneed to help, was not really
coming from this rooted place ofyou.
Know what?
I'm here for you, we're inpartnership, we're going to
figure this out.
I believe in you.
I certainly felt that way, butin those moments, those specific
moments, my nervous system wasnot in a state of ventral safety
(07:38):
where I had hope and access toconnecting in a meaningful way.
My nervous system moved into asympathetic fight or flight
response and my action wascoming from that place.
This was mind-blowing for mebecause I started to understand
why all of my helpfulness, myattempts at helpfulness, were
landing in such a negative wayfor my partner Because
(08:00):
essentially, my nervous systemwas coming from a survival
attack mode, like I have to dosomething, I have to fix
something, and that was reallyscary for my partner.
My nervous system was comingfrom a survival attack mode,
like I have to do something, Ihave to fix something, and that
was really scary for mypartner's nervous system and it
didn't land well.
It landed as an attack, itlanded as the criticism, the
judgment me schooling him, meknowing better than him and it
really created a powerlessdynamic that he was powerless,
(08:23):
that I was this big, mighty, Idon't know, know-it-all probably
I didn't really know it all atall but that I was really coming
at him and it felt reallydangerous to his nervous system.
So of course, he was going todefend.
When I started to realize thisand how I was contributing to
this nightmare in ourrelationship, it was one of the
(08:43):
most eye-opening experiencesthat I've had and my
understanding of the dynamicthat was happening, plus my
understanding of the nervoussystem connection, which has
just truly opened up so muchmore possibility for me, and so
I want to talk to you todayabout what I have figured out,
what to do instead when youreally, really want to help your
partner because you want themto feel better.
(09:05):
You want to feel better, youwant your relationship and your
family to feel better.
So what do you do if you're notsupposed to just fix and help
and do right?
A lot of us don't know whatwe're supposed to do.
You know, we feel like ouroxygen has been cut off.
We can't breathe.
If I can't fix, do help, whatdo I do?
So I'm here to tell you don'tworry, there is something you
(09:25):
can do.
You actually have some choiceabout how to respond that really
can ultimately work a lotbetter for you and your partner.
So what do you do?
I call it rooted response, andthis is rooted in nervous system
work.
What rooted response means isbeing able to choose a conscious
response when you and yournervous system are rooted in a
(09:48):
place of safety.
And choosing a response whenyour nervous system is feeling
safe, when you're feelinggrounded, allows you to choose
to respond in a way that has abetter chance at being helpful,
a better chance at improving thesituation.
It also has a better chance oflanding as helpful and
supportive in your partner'snervous system because you're in
(10:10):
a state of safety, and so whenit's coming from that state of
safety, you're sending somethingthat actually feels different
when it's received by yourpartner.
Now, there is no guarantee thatyour partner will be able to
receive your response well, andthat has to do with the state of
their nervous system when theyreceive the response.
So I just want you to know thatthis is not an absolutely
(10:31):
magical thing, but I'll talkmuch more in time, but I really
wanted to give you somepractical tools today about what
rooted response can look like.
So I want to say that I reallynotice a huge difference in
myself and my body when I'm in aplace of sort of that pressured
, have to need to fix survivalresponse, where I feel very much
(10:53):
in my chest.
I feel lifted out of my seat, Ifeel pulled forward into this,
like I have to do something.
It feels very frantic, verychaotic.
A lot of the time there's a lotof like spinning thoughts sort
of experience happening for me,whereas when I'm in a rooted
response, I literally feelrooted back in my seat.
I literally can feel myself sitdown.
The weight of my body, mycenter of gravity, changes in my
(11:15):
physical body experience and Ican really notice that.
So it's a very good indicatorwhen you start to develop this
body awareness, because it'llreally help guide you where your
system is and where you'reresponding from.
So the first thing that youneed to do to have a rooted
response is to notice when youare not having a rooted response
.
In other words, you arereacting.
A reaction is an unconscious,automatic way that you react to
(11:40):
a situation, and it comes fromthe nervous system identifying
that there's a threat, and so itgoes into survival, and so you
can call it reactivity, you cancall it dysregulation, you can
call it a reaction, you can callit unhelpful, you can call it
whatever you want, but to notice, ooh, my nervous system is no
longer in a grounded, safe space, I have moved into a reaction,
(12:02):
I have moved into dysregulation.
And to notice that and namethat, and just noticing and
naming that alone, can help youto move just one step back
towards being more regulated.
So that really is a veryimportant step and it's
something you probably will haveto practice because you might
not be able to catch yourselfright away.
Your body, as I mentionedearlier, is very, very helpful
(12:23):
because your body will give youa lot of clues and everyone's
body and system is, in factdifferent.
But when we're in a mobilizedresponse to threat, when we're
like something's happening Ihave to do something about it,
there are body cues that happen,you know.
Our heart rate speeds up, ourbreathing can quicken and we can
feel hot.
I certainly get sweaty when I'min that sympathetic, mobilized
(12:45):
response and again I physicallynotice a sense of my chest being
pulled into the air and I feellike I'm moving into action,
like I'm about to leap.
I feel like a lion about topounce on their prey.
It's very much that feeling inmy body when I move into a
sympathetic response.
The more you start to noticewhat your body sensations are
when you're in sympathetic andwhen you're in a mobilized
response to threat, the morehelpful it'll be to identify it.
(13:08):
While you are working on that,you can also notice the feelings
that come up feeling pressured,feeling desperate, feeling very
intense.
Your partner may also tell youthat you're intense.
It also comes with a feeling ofyou have to like I have to do
something about it.
If I don't do anything about it, who will right?
So these are thoughts andfeelings that you can start to
notice that also may very muchgo along with your experience of
(13:29):
being in a mobilized responseto threat, and a really good
sign that is not an absolutedefinite, but it's a very good
moment to stop and pause is ifyour partner is not receiving
you as supportive so you mightbe in a very eventual grounded,
safe place and coming to yourpartner, and if their nervous
system is dysregulated, ifthey're in a survival mode, they
(13:50):
might not be able to receivethat, so it may not be a
reflection on you, but if yourpartner is not receiving you as
safe, then that's a good time tostop and pause and wonder am I
coming from a place of safety?
And, as I said, your partnermight describe you as being too
intense, being too much.
You might notice that they'regetting smaller, pulling back,
they might be having their ownfight, response and saying some
(14:13):
things that may sound criticalor judgmental of you that's a
pretty common experience as wellor they might be shrinking and
trying to get away, shuttingdown, leaving the room, that
kind of thing.
So these are all littleindicators that maybe there's
something going on here that'sreally not helpful and that you
and your partner have probablyfound yourself in a dysregulated
state.
If you notice these things,take pause and ideally you'll
(14:37):
get to a place where you'll beable to communicate with your
partner, even in just some smallway, that you're taking a
moment.
You're going to take a littlebreak so that you yourself can
regularly reconnect with a senseof safety, calm down,
essentially.
So if you're in a place and youfeel like you can stay
physically present with yourpartner, if that feels safe
enough to your system, you cansay something like I don't want
to contribute to an unhelpfulconversation that makes both of
(15:00):
us feel more unsafe.
I'm just going to be quiet fora few moments.
I'm still here with you, though, and sort of just let them know
.
Now I can tell you if you'relike me, your partner may be
flabbergasted and completelyshocked if you say that you're
going to take pause and be quietfor a few moments.
Historically, it has not been avery common situation where I
take pause and quiet down.
(15:21):
When I'm dysregulated, Idefinitely have a strong
tendency to go into a lot ofwords, which, of course, lands
as an attack, so much of thetime for my husband.
But if you can try it, see howit goes and let me know If you
physically need to sort of beseparated from your partner for
a moment to be able to get backto that place of safety for
yourself.
Then, if possible, try to letyour partner know that and you
(15:43):
can say hey, I noticed that mynervous system is in a
sympathetic response here andwhatever I say is probably not
going to help the situation.
It's going to make both you andI feel worse.
So I'm just gonna take a quickbreak, I'm gonna go for a little
walk and I'll be back in a fewminutes and I will check in
later when I come back to see ifyou're available to connect.
Then I love you and you canthen go do that and you can have
(16:04):
that space to regulate.
I talk about regulation, andregulation is a big topic, the
way I use it.
I'm talking about it as anervous system experience when
you feel unsafe and thattriggers a survival response in
our nervous system and we gointo sympathetic fight or flight
, mobilized response to threator dorsal, shut down, collapse,
(16:25):
withdraw, freeze response toprotect us.
Self-regulation means findingour way back to safety, allowing
our nervous system, helping ournervous system find its way
back to safety.
There's a lot of wonderfulinformation out there on
self-regulation.
I will talk bucket loads, I'msure about self-regulation in
greater detail, but just a fewquick tips for now.
Taking a breath or two or threeat least 90 seconds worth, I
(16:48):
would say or taking a few goodsighs Just a can be a real good
nervous system reset.
Moving is very helpful, as Imentioned.
Going for that walk, even ifit's just getting up and going
into the next room, if you cango outside get a breath of fresh
air those can be veryregulating experiences when you
have a little bit moreregulation, a little bit more
(17:09):
safety.
Something that I think isabsolutely necessary and helpful
to do in this moment, whenyou're trying to figure out how
to help your partner and helpyourself, is to notice the
stories that are coming up inyour mind at that moment.
This is so important because,as I've talked about in previous
episodes, the interpretationsthat we make about ourselves and
our partners, others and thegreater world are directly
(17:32):
linked to the state our nervoussystem is in at that time.
So when we're dysregulated,we're probably going to think
thoughts like I can't ever behappy or my partner just needs
to do something and ourrelationship would be better,
and there may also be a littleand I know what they should do
quality to that thought.
You might be fantasizing aboutleaving, or you might just be
(17:53):
thinking that your partner is acomplete and total jerk and they
don't really care about you andthe relationship isn't really
important to them, or, no matterwhat you do, it's not enough.
So there's a lot of narrativesthat can come up when you're in
dysregulation and we can reallybelieve those very completely.
I know because my nervous systemworks just the same way as
yours.
So to notice those stories, tobegin to notice and when you can
(18:16):
move back to a little bit moreregulation, even if it's just
like kind of having a littlethread to eventual safe state,
you don't have to be fully inthis absolute zen, like
everything is wonderful in theworld kind of place.
If you can get there, that'ssuper great too.
But okay enough, truly is okayenough.
Think about those thoughtsagain and see what comes up.
Are they the same thoughts?
Have they transformed at all?
(18:37):
Can there be more of a sense?
Of relationships can be hard, ormy partner and I are really
both trying our best and we justhaven't quite figured out some
things yet, or I know we reallyboth want something better than
this and I think we can figureit out together right so we can
start to have this shift.
That purely comes from beingable to focus on the shift of
(18:57):
our nervous system, which is whyregulation is so incredibly
important, and regulation isabsolutely a primary
responsibility of all humans.
It is also, as a parent, ourjob to help teach our children
how to regulate, but more onthat in another episode.
So here we go.
I told you that when you're inthat state of you want to do
something to help your partner,I was going to tell you some
things that you could do, andthese are the three choices you
(19:19):
have once you have regulated.
So if you can't actually quiteget to a really grounded place
and you're still having sometrouble seeing your partner in a
positive light, don't worry,you have not failed
self-regulation.
Our nervous system can take timeto get back to that feeling of
safety, and there could be a lotof things going on, a lot of
(19:40):
old unconscious stories, oldneural pathways that have been
activated, and you might justsort of be a little bit more
attached to the dysregulation inthis moment.
You just might need a littlebit more time.
So if that's where you're at,then I would recommend some
restorative reflection.
Restorative reflection is timefor you.
Restorative reflection is notabout your partner in this
(20:01):
moment.
Please know that your takingtime for yourself will
absolutely benefit therelationship.
Pushing through is somethingthat many of us have learned and
often many of us value, but itis often not helpful at all.
So taking a moment to see whatdo I need right now?
Do I need more time?
Do I need to connect withanother relationship that feels
(20:21):
more accessible to me than mypartner right now?
This does not mean go andcomplain and vent to your best
friend about how annoying yourpartner is and how difficult
they are, although I candefinitely tell you I have done
that many a time.
Sometimes it's been helpful,sometimes not.
Depends who I'm venting to.
There's a lot of gray spotsthere, but generally speaking,
if you're going and venting toyour friend about how awful your
partner is, you're probablyincreasing your dysregulation
(20:44):
and probably not moving towardsa sense of safety and connection
, but perhaps going and gettingsome support and just
acknowledging like sometimesrelationships are hard and I
could really just use, you know,a good laugh or can we grab a
cup of coffee, something likethat, or it could actually be
that you need rest.
I mean relationship, work andlife, work, adulting in general
is pretty challenging, andsometimes we just need to take a
(21:06):
break, take a nap.
Maybe we just need to go tosleep and say, hey, let's
revisit this in the morning,when I have more energy.
Right Like pushing throughuntil midnight, 1am, 2am, 3.m.
Staying up all night trying totalk about an issue, going in
circles, arguing, escalating,becoming more dysregulated Again
, I have been there.
It is not effective, it is nothelpful and you're not doing
(21:28):
anyone any favors.
It might feel really hard tosay, okay, let's just stop this.
But the more you practice thatskill of like, hey, this is not
helpful, we're not doinganything that's making this
better.
So, with love, let's take abreak.
And that's what restorativereflection is.
It's with love let's take abreak and for you to be able to
look at what your needs are, sothat you can take the time that
(21:48):
you need and deserve to get backto a feeling of safety.
Now, if you can get your nervoussystem back to feeling more
safe, more grounded, and you'reable to start to see your
partner again in more positivelight, hold them in with more
positive regard, feel a littlebit more hope about your
relationship, that's a reallygood indicator as well
Hopefulness.
Hopefulness is only availableto us when our nervous system is
in a ventral state.
So if you're feeling hopeful,excellent sign, you're in the
(22:10):
place that you want to be in andthen you can take what I refer
to as anchored action.
So anchored action, as I see it, applies in many, many
different situations, and I willtalk at great length about what
that looks like in the world.
In this particular case, I'mgoing to give you a little
step-by-step of what anchoredaction could look like.
It certainly could look adifferent way, but this is sort
(22:31):
of a general format that I havefound helpful.
So when I want to help mypartner, I want to support them
and I actually want them to feelthat I have found helpful.
So when I wanna help my partner, I wanna support them and I
actually want them to feel thatI'm supportive and I'm able to
regulate myself and I'm able tofeel safe enough to be able to
come and open up connection withthem.
I can come back to my partner,and the very first thing that I
would highly recommend is, in aMAGO relationship therapy that I
(22:54):
practice, the first thing thatwe do when starting a dialogue
is to ask for an appointment.
This is a highly valuable tool.
To say, hey, I'd like to take amoment to chat is now a good
time for you.
This is a beautiful way torespect your partner's nervous
system and communicate your need.
So step number one ask for anappointment and let your partner
know hey, I'd like to be ableto talk about what happened and
(23:15):
figure this out together.
Is now a good time.
If it is, and they say, yeah,sure, because their nervous
system recognized that yournervous system was in a place of
safety.
You weren't like coming toattack them with all of your to
do's and should's and you knowall the maybe very helpful
information.
I do think I have a lot ofhelpful information, but how I
present it is pretty, prettyimportant, and I've not always
done such a great job presentingmy helpful information to my
(23:36):
husband, and I also didn'talways honor my husband's own
brilliance that he had that Ididn't actually have to know all
the answers that he has his ownincredible wisdom for what he
needs.
So if you're in that place andyour partner says, yeah, sure,
let's talk, let's chat, great.
If your partner says, hey, I'mnot there yet, I don't want to
talk about this, they mightstill be dysregulated and they
(23:56):
might need to be in their ownstate of restorative reflection
where they can come back to astate of safety.
So you can let them know.
Okay, you know I'll check backin in a few minutes, or is it
okay if I check back in a fewminutes?
Or when would you like me tocheck back?
Or can you let me know whenyou're available?
Can you let me know when you'refeeling up to talking and
connecting?
And I imagine that if you havehad the experience where your
(24:17):
partner says, yeah, yeah, we'lltalk about it later, you may
have also had the experiencewhere later never happens.
And I understand, the more youpractice this experience of
working together in partnershipand having both nervous systems
come into a state of safety, themore that you will see that you
actually have the conversationslater and your partner actually
will come back and say, hey,can we talk about it?
(24:37):
I actually remember the veryfirst time that my husband came
back to me and said, hey, let'sdialogue about that, and it was
amazing.
So it does happen.
It might take a little bit oftime but it does happen.
So first ask for an appointmentis now a good time, and if your
partner says that it is fromthat rooted place, from that
(24:58):
place of safety, from that placeof knowing that you're going to
figure out things.
Sometimes life is hard,sometimes relationships are hard
.
I would recommend starting withwhat I refer to as a see, know,
believe, and this soundssomething like telling your
partner I see that it's hard foryou, I know that you're trying
your best and I believe that wecan figure this out.
So this, in polyvagal theory,is known as a disconfirming
(25:20):
experience, because your partner, just like your interpretations
about yourself and others andthe world, are tied to your
nervous system experience, yourpartner's interpretations about
themselves and the world, andyou are tied to their nervous
system experience, and so theyare thinking that they're not
good enough and that's why thisis hard.
It's not just that this can behard, right, whatever it is,
(25:41):
whether it's depression ordealing with a challenge at work
or at home or whatever, they'renot thinking that you see them
as trying their best.
You know they're thinking thatthey're not good enough, that
other people know how to do itbetter.
They're not thinking thatthere's a way to figure this out
.
They're thinking that this is adead end, it's hopeless,
they're not going to be able tofigure this out, and they just
have to either fight against itor give up, right?
(26:03):
So just by giving them some ofyour ventral energy, this gift
of what you see and know andbelieve to be true from that
ventral space, is disconfirmingthe beliefs that they may be
holding in that moment.
Now, again, if they are verydysregulated, they might not be
able to receive that beautifulventral energy.
They may be defended against it.
If that's the case, take abreath and you might say
(26:26):
something like you might not beable to receive this right now,
but I'm going to leave a littlebit of my ventral energy right
here next to you on the couch,and when you're ready to pick it
up, you could pick it up.
So let them know that you'rethere to support them in a way
that feels good for both of you.
And then anchored action canlook like giving your partner a
simple choice.
Notice, this is not you knowing, needing to know, this is not
(26:47):
you actually having all theanswers and a simple choice
might be is there something thatyou or I could do right now
that would feel helpful for you?
Giving a simple choice to yourpartner?
What a gift.
Just a little invitation.
Maybe they'll say yes, maybethey'll say no.
If you have some of your ownideas, you might ask this is
another version of anappointment Are you open to
hearing an idea or two that Ihave?
(27:09):
They might say yes, they mightsay no.
If they're able to receive youand they say, yeah, sure Tell me
.
Maybe you say hey, see you.
And they say yeah, sure, tellme.
Maybe you say hey, do you wantto go for a walk together?
Would you like to cuddle for afew minutes?
Would you like to connect?
Because problem solving canhappen after connection.
When we're rooted in safety,problem solving is available to
us.
When we are dysregulated, weare just doing everything that
we can do to survive and wemight figure stuff out, but not
(27:32):
in a really healthy, productiveproblem solving way of looking
at all the possibilities anddetermining the possible impact
of each thing and reallychoosing in this conscious way
like, oh, I think this is whatmight be most effective.
Survival is reactive by nature,because it needs to be quick,
it needs to be thoughtless.
You need to react immediatelyto protect yourself.
So this is a very differentexperience of that.
(27:53):
Now, if you don't quite feellike you need to take a total
break and be away from yourpartner for some restorative
reflection, but you also don'tfeel so anchored in ventral that
you can move into a fullanchored action response, then
you might want to try somethingthat I refer to as bonded being,
and bonded being is just beingin the presence of your partner,
(28:14):
without the problem solving,without the words.
This is something that I haveworked on for the last 10 years,
quite consciously.
I have definitely gotten betterat it.
I think I still have a ways togo.
I usually find myself in astate of either needing a little
bit of space to be able toregulate myself or I do find
(28:37):
that I can be able to be in someplace of an anchored action
state.
But the value and bonded beingfor many of us is so
extraordinary the experience ofbeing able to just be with our
partner, restorative reflectionin partnership together and I
can tell you that as someone whohas lived with depression for
my whole life, I know thebenefit.
(28:58):
I know what it feels like tonot have someone saying what do
you want to do, what do you needto do, what should we do?
What would help?
Because a lot of the time whenyou're sort of in a stuck place,
whether you're depressed ordealing with a challenge in your
life that kind of has youfeeling stuck.
Sometimes all those questionsfeel like too much, and so this
is just an experience of like,hey, you know what, we can
figure this out later.
Let's prioritize connecting.
(29:19):
So I hope that you have foundthis helpful.
Today.
I wanted to be able to give youa structure of how to respond
to situations, or how to beginto think about responding to
situations, and I look forwardto expanding on this and sharing
other related ideas in thefuture, because being in
relationship is, in fact, achallenge, certainly if you
yourself have depression or yourpartner has depression, or both
(29:41):
of you but also just dealingwith the challenges of life.
Again, adulting can be hard,relationships can be hard, and
nobody taught us about rootedresponding, and that's because
our parents didn't know, ourgrandparents didn't know they
were trying to survive, theywere just making ends meet, they
were just doing what needed tobe done, taking pause and
regulating and being able torespond from that place of
safety.
(30:01):
Sometimes it feels like aluxury, like I don't have time
to slow down.
Who has time for that?
Especially if you're a busyworking person, a busy working
parent, a busy adult adulting.
That can feel like a waste oftime, but the truth is is that
when we are in such a regularstate of reactivity, such a
state of survival, such a stateof dysregulation and even just a
little dysregulation isdysregulation.
(30:21):
So even like kind of beingannoyed, frustrated, you know, a
little bothered, you don't haveto be like all out raging or
full blown depressed.
That's all dysregulated and welive in a society where that has
become the norm, and I do notthink that it has to be the norm
.
I don't think that for ahealthy world it can be the norm
, and I think that being able toregulate yourself is exactly
(30:42):
what we need to be able to livein a more regulated world that
is safer and more connected foreveryone.
As our time comes to a close, Iask you to keep listening for
just a few more moments, becauseI want to thank you for showing
up today and I want to leaveyou with an invitation as you
hit, stop and move back out intothe world on your own unique
(31:03):
wellness journey In order tomove from where you are today to
the place where you want to be.
The path may seem long orunclear or unknown, and I want
you to know that if that seemsscary or daunting or downright
terrifying or anything else,that is totally okay.
Know that you do not have tocreate the whole way all at once
(31:25):
.
We don't travel a whole journeyin one stride, and that is why
my invitation to you today is totake a step, just one, any type
, any size, in any direction.
It can be an external step thatcan be observed or measured, or
it could be a step youvisualize, taking in your mind.
It can be a step towards actionor towards rest or connection
(31:48):
or self-care, or whatever stepmakes sense to you.
I invite you to take a steptoday because getting to a place
that feels better, more joyful,more connected than the place
where you are today is possiblefor everyone, including you, and
even when depression is in yourbed.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please subscribe so
(32:11):
you can be notified when eachweekly episode gets released.
I encourage you to leave areview and reach out to me on
social media at trishsanderslcsw.
Your feedback will help guidefuture episodes and I love
hearing from you.
Also, please share this podcastwith anyone who you think may
be interested or who may getsomething from what I have
(32:31):
shared.
Until the next time we connect,take care of yourself and take
a step.
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