Why Living in Florence, Italy is a Dream Come True with Tom Leonard

We’re diving into the fabulous world of Florence, Italy, where our guest Tom Leonard is living his best life in a city that’s as enchanting as it is historical. Tom spills the tea on everything from the cost of living to the vibrant Italian culture, plus a sprinkle about his own journey from California to the charming hills of Florence. He’s not just soaking up the sun and pasta; he’s also juggling his digital marketing gig while brushing up on his Italian skills and indulging in local cuisine. Whether you’re curious about healthcare, safety, or the dining scene, Tom's got you covered with all the juicy details. So, grab your virtual passport and let’s explore why Florence might just be the perfect retirement destination for everyone in the LGBTQ community!

If you've ever thought about retiring in a beautiful, culturally rich country, Tom Leonard’s story will inspire you! This episode of the Where Do Gays Retire Podcast takes us through Tom’s exciting experience of moving from California to Florence, Italy. He shares the good, the bad, and the absolutely delicious of living in this stunning city. From adjusting to the climate to understanding the cost of living, Tom gives us a real sense of what it’s like to call Florence home. He talks about the fantastic healthcare system, how to get by with the language barrier, and the incredible public transport that makes getting around a breeze. Plus, we dive into the culinary delights that await in local markets, and how to enjoy the Italian way of life while keeping fit with all that walking! Whether you’re considering a move yourself or just dreaming of an Italian getaway, this episode is a treasure trove of insights and laughter.

Takeaways:

• Finding a safe and affordable retirement spot in the LGBTQ community is crucial.
• Tom Leonard's journey to Florence highlights the importance of embracing new adventures.
• Florence offers a vibrant culture, delicious food, and welcoming locals, perfect for expats.
• Understanding the local climate and costs is key to enjoying life in Italy.

Links referenced in this episode:

• wheredogaysretire.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Warner Brothers
• Netflix
• lifegateway
• Gamers Change Lives
• Smart Move Italy

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Welcome to the Where Do GaysRetire Podcast where we help you
in the LGBTQ community find asafe and affordable retirement place.
Join Mark Goldstein as heinterviews others who live in gay
friendly places around the globe.
Learn about the climate, costof living, health care, crime and
safety, and more.

(00:22):
Now here's your host, Mark Goldstein.
Would you like to know whatit's like to live in Florence, Italy
today?
We will find out.
We have our special guest, Tom Leonard.
And let me tell you a littlebit about Tom.

(00:44):
Tom is the creator and host ofthe Gamers Change Lives podcast,
a platform dedicated toexploring the business side of exports
and its potential to driveeconomic opportunities worldwide.
With a social and onlinemarketing management background,
he has worked with majorentertainment companies like Warner

(01:07):
Brothers and Netflix,specializing in digital media production,
content development andaudience engagement.
Now based in Florence, Italy,Tom is not retired, but is actively
working with the startuplifegateway, applying his expertise
in digital strategy and mediato to help shape innovative solutions

(01:28):
in the industry.
Originally from Wyoming in theRocky Mountains, Tom has spent most
of his adult life in SouthernCalifornia, where he built a career
at the intersection ofentertainment technology and marketing.
Before entering the businessworld, he served in the Peace Corps
in Fiji, an experience thatshaped his global perspective and

(01:51):
commitment to fosteringconnections across cultures.
After returning to the U.S.
he earned his MBA fromStanford graduate School of Business,
further owning his leadershipstrategy and entrepreneurship skills.
Now living in Monterinaldi inthe hills of Florence.
I hope I pronounced that right.

(02:12):
Tom embraces his life as anAmerican in Italy.
While improving his Italian,he immerses himself in the country's
rich culinary traditions,eager to deepen his knowledge of
Italian cooking and wine.
Whether exploring localmarkets, recipes, or discovering
hidden wineries, he enjoys theopportunity to experience Italy through

(02:36):
its food and culture.
As he continues hisprofessional journey, he remains
focused on storytelling,digital marketing, and fostering
international connections ingaming, exports and and emerging
technologies.
Welcome, Tom.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for coming.
Oh, no, thanks.
Thanks for the invitation.
This is great.

(02:57):
And Tom and I know each otherfrom the podcast industry for, well,
I guess it's probably over twoyears now.
And Tom was instrumental inanswering a few questions when I
first started out doing thepodcast, so I want to thank him for
that as well.

(03:18):
So, Tom, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
What brought you to Florence, Italy?
You know, I wish I had areally good story because I get asked
that.
I was asked that a lot, youknow, before I came and certainly
once I'm here, it just seemedlike the right thing to Do.
I just wanted a new adventure.
It was that time in my life.
My parents had recently passedaway, so I didn't have any caregiving

(03:41):
duties that would keep me in California.
And I thought, hey, it's timeto do something while I still can
get out there and do something different.
I don't.
I also don't have a reallygood story of why Florence, Italy.
I was uncharacteristicallydecisive about things.
I always liked Italy, but Idon't have any Italian heritage or

(04:02):
anything like that, so.
But I just really liked thehistory and everything here in Florence,
in Italy in particular.
And so last October, not likesix months ago, but like 18 months
ago, I came here to Florencefor four weeks, for a month, to see
if it was something that Iwanted to do.
And I spent four weeks hereand two weeks in Rome.
And I was like, wow, I canlive here.

(04:25):
It's like, okay, let's see howwe make.
How we can make that happen.
And so it, you know, as soonas I still remember flying back after
that trip, flying back intoBurbank, and it was just like, ah,
I want to be back in Italy.
It just felt right forwhatever reason.
So.
And a lot of people that Italk to you, and a lot of people

(04:46):
in your groups will talkabout, you know, doing a lot of investigation
for different countries anddifferent regions and things like
that.
And I was just like, no, Iwant to live in Florence.
And so I would it.
Which was very fortunate forme because then I didn't have to
spend a lot of time, you know,deciding where it is that I wanted
to be.
I'm single, so I don't have to.
I don't have another personthat I have to negotiate with on.
On anything.

(05:07):
So.
So I just thought this wouldbe a good adventure to do.
You just did it.
So just like Nike says, justdo it.
You did it.
The other thing is, the onething that I will.
The one thing that I do missin moving to Italy is being able
to tell people that I'm movingto Italy.

(05:28):
Because in California, youtell people you're moving to Italy.
They're like, well, first theydon't believe it, but then they're
like, that just sounds soreally good, so great for all kinds
of reasons.
And it wasn't, you know, witheverything that's going on, it wasn't
like, oh, I can't live hereanymore sort of thing.
It wasn't me leaving somethingI didn't like.
I really like California.
I like Burbank.
But going someplace that Iwanted to be.

(05:51):
I was running towardssomething, not running away from
something.
There you go.
That's very important.
So I'm glad that.
I'm glad that happened.
And, yeah, you did save anawful lot of time researching other
places because, you know,sometimes you just get that.
That feeling that it's a rightthing to do.
Yes.

(06:11):
So, okay.
And the other thing.
The other thing that I.
I also discovered along theway, and I was talking to some other
expats here today about it.
In fact, when you do somethinglike this, it gives you a feeling
of empowerment in a way thatit's hard to describe, and it's something
you don't really.
I never really anticipatedgoing into it because it's like the

(06:32):
trainer at the gym, I waslike, oh, here's what I look like
20 years ago.
Can you make me look like that again?
And he's like, well, it'sgoing to take some work.
And I'm like, you're talkingto someone's moving to Italy.
It's like, if I can do that, Ican do anything.
So it gives people.
And it's not just moving toItaly, but anyone that's moving anywhere,
taking a positive step, doingsomething with their life, it gives

(06:53):
you power that you probablydon't appreciate that you're going
to get.
That's great.
That's great.
I'm moving.
Well, I hope so.
Okay.
All right, so now that you'rein Florence, let's talk a little
bit about Florence.
Tell us about the climate.

(07:14):
What's the weather like yearround in Florence?
If we had had thisconversation a week ago, I would
have a different answer.
The climate here is prettymuch the same as California.
It's colder in the winter,there's more rain.
And the winters, the summerscan be super hot around here.
But just last week, not todate, the podcast, but we had really

(07:36):
big floods here in Tuscany.
And, I mean, pictures of theArno river, it's like way up down
at Pisa, way up.
It's like scary levels of water.
Now, I live up in the hill, soit didn't really impact where I'm
living or anything, but it'slike, it kind of reminds you that,
wow, things can happen, can bedifferent that way.

(07:58):
But overall, the one thinghere I do remember, and especially
if you're moving to anywherenear Wyoming, it's the wind, because
you don't get the wind inCalifornia, and you get wind here,
El Bento.
And it's just something that.
That takes a little bit ofgetting used to, but that's a small
thing, but.
But overall I can't complainabout the weather.

(08:21):
So as far as the climate isconcerned, what's the temperature
like in the summer and thewinter months?
In the summer it gets, oh, 40 degrees.
The other thing, I've changedover to Celsius because it's just,
it's easier to do.
So it gets up to around 100degrees Fahrenheit here.
Pretty warm.
It's.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it gets warm andit's a little muggy and you know,

(08:44):
you kind of plan your dayaround it in August in particular,
which is one of the reasons why.
And it makes a lot of sense.
Everything closes here inAugust and people think like, oh,
that's a myth, that it doesn't.
But it does.
I mean, not for the fullmonth, but for.
There's.
You.
You can't get anything out ofthe government for the month of August.

(09:06):
You just.
It does not happen.
I couldn't get a notary to, tocomplete the sale of my, the purchase
of my house here becausethere's no notaries in the month
of August sort of thing.
Wow.
So it's.
That.
That was.
And, and I kept thinking Iwant to live someplace where everyone
takes off in the month of August.
So everyone, everyone heregoes to the sea, they call it.

(09:27):
So they go to the beaches andoutside of Florence.
So Florence kind of.
It's really taken over bytourists in the month of August.
So.
Yeah.
So summers are really.
And then here in winter itwould get down to.
Well, I guess it would getdown to 0 degrees centigrade.
So at 32.
32.
So it get in the 30s, but notmuch cooler than that.

(09:48):
Never really snows aroundhere, so it's not that.
And you know, a lot of rain,but you just kind of deal with it.
The weather is.
Yeah.
Again, every place has its thing.
Except for like San Diego.
Yes.
Here in Phoenix, it's the samething all summer long.
It's quite warm.
So we have to do things thatother people don't, like walk the

(10:12):
dog at five in the morningand, you know, get all your stuff
done early in the morningbecause you.
It can't go out.
Yes.
120 degrees.
So.
Okay, so you did mention thatFlorence has extreme weather, such
as flooding or the areas near there.
So that's a concern withclimate change.

(10:34):
Do you know if the governmenthas done anything?
Governments in Europe, I'vediscovered in general take it so
much more seriously than inthe U.S.
i mean, sustainability issomething that everyone does here.
I Mean, it's part of abusiness planning, and it's not something
that it's like political or anything.

(10:55):
It's like, no, it's just.
It's the smart thing to do, the.
Way it should be.
And it's just.
And so it's really refreshing.
Recycling.
Oh, my God.
It's like you sort all of yourtrash into about five different categories,
and you look at the calendar,what's today?
And then you put it out infront of the house and it's like,
you know, you know, Carta, youknow, papers one day, plastics another

(11:18):
day, glass you take down to a place.
I mean, so recycling is verymuch of the culture, and people just,
just do it.
They don't complain about it.
It's a way of life.
So they actually recycle stuff.
Unlike places in the US whereyou put stuff in recycle and it doesn't
wind up recycled.

(11:39):
Exactly, exactly.
Okay, good to know.
Good to know.
Okay.
Do they.
I know in Spain they havethese recycling containers built
into the sidewalk.
Do they have that in Italy?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you rarely see a trash can.
I mean, it's like somethingthat has, like, four different holes

(11:59):
in it so that you, you need tomake a decision on what it is that
you're going to, where you'regoing to put it.
And.
Yeah, and that's the other thing.
I mean, people really take it seriously.
I mean, you know, no one'sforcing you to divide things up,
but.
But it, but they do.
Okay, so do they have, like,options for enjoying nature, Parks,

(12:24):
hiking?
I know you said beaches are acouple hours away, Right.
So is Florence.
Tell us about the geography, too.
Where is Florence located?
That's another reason that Ilike living here.
It's very centrally located in Italy.
One of the things that, thatit makes, you know, people know about
it, but it really puts it intoperspective when you're here.

(12:45):
Italy is about the size ofCalifornia when it comes to land
mass.
And there's.
I think there's a few morepeople, but the regions are so different.
You go up to Milan, and Milanis like Germany.
I mean, it has that, that, youknow, the northern Italy has that.
You have Venice, you know,which is its own animal over on the

(13:06):
northeast, and then you havethe valley in between there and then
over here in Tuscany.
It's like a different culture,different way of life.
Go down to Rome, then go toNapoli, go down to Naples, and it's
like a whole different culture.
And then you go down to Sicily.
It's like a completelydifferent Culture, which is really
fascinating because you can'tget bored.

(13:28):
It's like, you know, let's sayif you move to Nebraska, you'd have
to drive a long way before yousaw something that didn't look like
Nebraska.
Where here, it's just.
And the other thing is peoplehere are so proud of where they're
from.
I mean, when you talk topeople, they're proud they're from
Florence, they're proudthey're from Empoli, they're proud
they're from Milan, and so on.

(13:49):
And the same thing with foodis different from what you go 20
miles, 20 kilometers away.
The food is different.
I mean, every region has theirown food that is not native, but
more popular.
So you can have all kinds ofdifferent food.
Just.
And all the food here, anyonethat tells you about how great the

(14:11):
food is in Italy, it's like,it's even better.
It's just amazing.
Because also when you'retalking about sustainability, it's
like the produce here, food ingeneral is just.
The quality is incredible.
I mean, you cannot.
So in, in California, I'd goto the supermarket and I'd buy produce
and I'd leave it in therefrigerator for a week, two weeks.
I mean, the tomato would stilllook like it did here.

(14:35):
You don't do that.
I mean, three days and you,it's, you're not going to be eating
it.
So, so you, you buy things differently.
But just the quality of thefood is just tremendous.
Okay, I have to know, how doyou keep the weight off?
That's why I've got the camerapointed up.

(14:56):
These great pastas and acouple of things.
One of the things that I'velearned is that portions here are
smaller.
I mean, there's no such thingas super sized anything.
I mean, you go, right, it'slike, no, you get lasagna and it's
just a little bit of lasagna.
And that's how people eat.
They eat in smaller portions.
But also because the qualityof the food is so much better.

(15:19):
It, it doesn't stay with youthe same way that say, maybe junk
food stays with you.
The other thing is you do alot of walking.
I mean, you don't, you, youjust, it's just part of life here.
Everyone does their share ofwalking, you know, and certainly
you do it in Florence.
But even in other parts ofthe, of the country, people don't

(15:39):
even think twice about walkinga certain distance.
I mean, it's just, it's notlike California where you gotta have
your car to Drive over to CE ablock away.
Yeah, it's like, no, you just don't.
You don't do it.
So that.
Because.
Yeah, because otherwise.
So when you come here, youkind of have to control yourself
a little bit because.
Yeah, I would have to, becauseit's hard for me to control myself

(16:02):
here.
It's not that great.
But the same thing is likewith breakfast, the Italian breakfast
is you go to a bar, you go toa cafe, and you have a little tiny
cup of espresso.
I mean.
I mean, little tiny.
With a croissant.
That's breakfast.
It's just like.
It's like, sign me up.

(16:24):
It's like, if I can do.
Have that for breakfast, that's.
I want to do that.
Spain's that too.
It's the cafe culture type.
They don't have thesehumongous breakfasts with pancakes
and syrup and it's just maybea churro with chalk dipped in chocolate.
But.

(16:44):
Or croissant.
But.
Yeah, I get you.
So do you have, like, parksnear you and any place for recreation?
Yeah, because I live justnorth of Florence in the hills to
get out of the heat of thesummer, hopefully.
I haven't been.
I haven't been in the placehere for the summer, but.
But it's.
It's kind of out.

(17:04):
Out of the city a little bit.
So there's.
Yeah, there's lots of placesto go and to be out in nature and
it's just fun to go out andsee things like that.
Cool.
Very cool.
Okay, let's.
Let's get into the cost ofliving now.
This is going to beinteresting because you come from
a place, you come from California.

(17:25):
Price, it's pretty pricey there.
How would you compare that to Florence?
One of the things, groceriesand housing for housing.
One of the things that, thatyou find.
That I find because I keeptalking about this is my experience.
I mean, other people mighthave a different experience, but
from what I've seen is thathousing can be really expensive.

(17:46):
People here, I think Italy hasthe highest home ownership, ownership
rate in all of Europe.
More people here own theirhomes than anywhere else because
they're passed down in thefamily from generation to generation
sort of thing.
So there's.
It's kind of a joke.
People live with their parentsway longer than you might do in other
parts of the world, so they'llhand down their houses.

(18:11):
But houses here are much lessexpensive than sort of.
I mean, California is kind ofat this one extreme.
So.
So the housing rents.
But also it also depends onwhat Part of Italy you live in.
So I live in Florence.
It's one of the more expensive places.
Places it's not as expensiveas Milan.

(18:31):
Milan is like a whole newworld of hurt when it comes to cost
of, of housing.
So it's a little moreexpensive and it's certainly more
expensive the closer to thecity center that you live.
You can live outside of thecity a little bit and live in a place
that's much less expensive.
And for me, I didn't want tolive because if you really want to

(18:52):
live out in the country, youcan find some pretty reasonable places
out there that are really nice.
And they're in the Tuscan, youknow, they're in Tuscany.
And it's like, it looks asgood as you expect it to look.
There's kind of a couple of myths.
There's the one euro home thatthey're always like, oh, you can
buy a home for €1.
It's like you do not want tolive, you do not want to buy, you

(19:14):
do not want this.
This particular doesn't haverunning water or toilet.
Yeah, I mean the renovationsare going to be astronomical.
So tell us, tell us what, whatan average price for, let's say a
two bedroom, two home inFlorence would be.
Do you have any idea if you.
Were going to, if you weregoing to live in the city itself?

(19:34):
You're probably looking at500,000, 400 or 500,000.
And again, one of the things Ialways recommend people do go out
and look at on the real estatesites, that's where you're going
to get the real information.
And the real estate listingsare, some are great and most are
just crap.
So you have to kind of weedthrough things.
The other thing I learned whenyou go and look at real estate online,

(19:57):
which I really like to do,never put your name in with any of
the sites that you go to.
Because what happens is whenyou buy a house in Italy, you as
the buyer pay 3%, the sellerpays 3% to their agent.
So each one has an agent.
If you're a buyer and you goto these sites and you like, oh,

(20:20):
send me more information andhere's my name and all this kind
of stuff, some of them willcome back.
If you buy a place, they willsay that they are your agent and
they will claim another 3%.
So the people that I talked toearly on, they said don't ever put
your name in any database out there.
So if find.

(20:40):
And the other thing is find agood real estate person to work with.
And there's a lot that arereally good, but find one and work
with them.
They can work with, work with everyone.
But yeah, just go out thereand poke around and look at the,
look at the online listingsbecause you're going to find things
in the city center that are different.
You're also going to be ableto start to learn if you're interested.

(21:01):
If you're interested inFlorence, you're going to learn the
different neighborhoods.
You're going to learn a littlebit about the different areas that
are outside of, of the city.
And you know, if you go to thewest, it's going to be less expensive
and less nice than maybe tothe east.
I was over in Banyan Ripley acouple weeks ago.
I was like, this looks likeOrange County.
I mean, it just, it had thatnew kind of house feel to it and

(21:25):
everything.
And so, so, yeah, it's.
Poke around and look and seewhat works out there.
Most people here live in an apartment.
I mean, they own an apartment.
We probably think of it ascondo, but they call it an apartment.
And so that's what themajority of the people who live in
the city, you don't.
If you live in Florence, youdon't have a house with a yard and

(21:45):
a fence.
It's like, right.
You have an apartment any more than.
You do in San Francis ago.
Do, do you recommend peoplerent before buying for like, let's
say a year?
It's hard.
It's hard for me to give thatadvice because.
For me, because you didn't.
Because I wanted to buy something.
I knew I wanted to buysomething, so I didn't want to.

(22:05):
And again, it's like it, ifyou want to spend the time to do
that.
But I guess at the same time,buying is a pretty big step because
the house that I had inBurbank I sold in three days.
I mean, because that's themarket in California and maybe in
Phoenix as well.
It's like.
But it moves fast in differentplaces here in the price range I'm

(22:29):
looking at, things will be onthe market for two years.
So it's like.
And that was not, I mean, atall kinds of price ranges.
So if you're thinking you'regoing to, oh, I'll buy something,
then we sell it year orsomething like that.
Well, no, that's not going to happen.
That's not going to happen.
So, yeah, if you're a littlebit unsure about the area.
Yeah.
Rent and see how it fits foryou there.

(22:55):
Okay, good advice.
So how about an average rental?
What would you think it would cost.
Do you have any idea?
I don't have a really goodidea, but I would picture the other
thing.
In Italy, the wages, thesalaries are unbelievably low.
I mean, it's just incrediblehow little people make here.

(23:16):
And it's, you know, evencollege graduates, I mean, they're
making, you know, jobs inCalifornia, they might be making,
you know, $100,000.
Here they're making €25,000.
I mean, it's.
The wages are really low.
So that means that housingprices are also, you know, rent and
everything also has to belower along those lines.

(23:36):
So I don't have a really goodfigure for you.
And again, go out online andpoke around, but it's also going
to really depend on what partof town you're in.
Same.
It'd be the same thing ifyou're looking in L.
A.
I mean, what's an averageprice in L.
A?
Okay, but the cost of otherthings like utilities, groceries,

(23:56):
Utilities are a little bit cheaper.
Oh, but some things, I mean,gas and electric are a little bit
cheaper, but not tremendously so.
Gas, because of Russia, issignificantly more expensive than
it used to be here.
But things like Internet, Imean, I have a unlimited plan for,

(24:18):
you know, Internet, TV, everything.
It's €29amonth.
I hear that.
And so I, it seems likeeverywhere in Europe.
So I.
My phone, I needed an Italianphone because there are a lot of
apps in Italy that don't workon an American based phone.
So I had to get another phone.
But it's like €5amonth for aseparate phone line.

(24:41):
It's like, how.
So it's crazy.
So that, that kind of stuff is really.
Food is food can also be a pasta.
It's funny, you go to thestore, you could buy pasta for almost
nothing.
You buy this thing of pastafor a euro wine.
Like you buy $3, €3 bottle ofwine and you think, oh, that must

(25:02):
be real crap.
But it's not really good wine.
It's like, it's the top.
It's like the wine.
Right, because the crap is 50 cents.
Yes.
And you, you go to the storeand the €20 bottles are blocked up,
you can't get to them.
Oh, wow.
So there are certain things.
So the cost of that, cost of,you know, transportation, you know,

(25:23):
riding around on the bus,things like that is pretty reasonable
as well.
Gasoline is probably a littleexpensive, although I have an all
electric car, so I'm not agreat judge of that.
But I don't think gasoline ischeap anywhere in Europe.
So do you think retirees couldretire comfortably, live comfortably

(25:45):
in Florence on a moderate budget?
It'd be tough.
I think what, what I wouldrecommend is look at places near
Florence because again, thetransportation near the trains.
I was in Rovigo.
Oh, I was up there visiting aprevious guest on your podcast, Dan
Rainey and his partner andother people that he knows up there.

(26:07):
I was up in Rovigo today andjust took the train back today.
How far is that?
A couple hundred kilometers.
Which is how many miles?
140.
Not too bad.
I mean it's a trip.
But the trains here are just phenomenal.

(26:28):
Not only are they fast,they're if you buy your tickets in
advance, they can be really inexpensive.
I mean, last minute ones arenot so much.
But the train stations arelike right in the middle of the town
where they should be.
So you just go right there,there's no security, walk in, get
on the train.
And it really is high speed train.
I mean it's like boom.

(26:50):
And you are.
How long does it take you toget to Rivigo?
Let's say it's 150 miles.
160.
Oh, it what?
An hour and 15 minutes.
It's pretty good.
I mean it's just, I meanyou're looking at the place.
Oh, you're going 260kilometers an hour on these trains.
I mean, who knows what that is?
Yeah, but, but it's just, itworks out really well.
It's a bullet train.

(27:10):
It really is.
It really is.
And they're like, I'm going toRome in a couple of weeks.
And it's like another hour anda half, maybe a little more to, to
go to Rome.
But there's like a train everyhalf hour.
I mean there's just, it'sjust, it just works and go to Milan,
a couple of hours to Milan.
So it works out really well.

(27:33):
But how about the tax.
How about the tax situation?
So what I don't know people isall these people on your Facebook
groups and other Facebookgroups are asking for tax advice.
And I'm always like, no, donot get your tax advice from advice
from Facebook.
No, never.
The only thing you should beasking there is do you know a good
tax professional that I cantalk to that's the appropriate.

(27:56):
But all these people, it'slike, well, you know, it's kind of
interesting to hear what otherpeople's do, you know.
So do you know if you payItalian taxes first?
Yes.
So what happens is because Iarrived here on, at the end of July
last Year with the intention Iwas not going to be in Italy for
180 days.
So I was not.

(28:17):
I am not a tax citizen forlast year.
This year, of course I will bea tax citizen.
But what happened, whatbasically happens is the way I understand
it, and I'm not a tax advisor,but basically you pay tax in the
US Taxes on worldwide income,Italy taxes on worldwide income.

(28:41):
But what happens is then it,you, you then get an offset for what
you pay.
So let's say, but so let's sayif you're paying in the US and it's,
I'm making this up, it's like 20%.
Let's say if, if that's whatyou're paying in Italy, if you earn
over €50,000, which you'reprobably going to do because they're

(29:02):
going to take 53% of that.
So you, you need €100,000 tolive on €50,000.
So, but at the same time, youget free health care.
So it's like, okay, this kind of.
That's a trade off.
Yeah, I mean, to me, that'sthe big trade off there.
So, so yeah, taxes, you need a professional.

(29:23):
But basically is you're notgoing to be double taxed, you're
not going to pay taxes inItaly and tax in the U.S.
italy also has though thisthing called a wealth tax.
So you also end up paying acertain like point and again, I'm
not exactly sure what thenumber is, but like 0.04% of everything

(29:46):
that you own to thegovernment, which is something that
we don't have in the U.S.
okay.
So in other words, yourItalian taxes typically are going
to be more than US Taxes.
So when you pay your Italiantaxes, you're going to wind up paying
nothing in American in U.S.
taxes because you've alreadypaid more.

(30:07):
Yes, yes.
Than the U.S.
wants.
But the U.S.
you don't get health care, youdon't get all the services that the
EU provides.
Yes.
Gotcha.
Okay.
Okay, Tom, so let's talk nowabout the visa and residency process.
What types of visas areavailable to retirees or expats moving

(30:32):
to Italy?
One thing I would recommend isto go out there and do your own research
to see what is out there.
Because I came in under aninvestor's visa because I had no
other.
I don't have Italian heritageor anything like that to get citizenship.
And I didn't want to retire,so I didn't want a retirement visa.
So there are differentversions out there.

(30:54):
I'm not the expert.
And so you don't want to takeit from me on what's out there, unless
you want to talk about theinvestor's visa.
And I do know about that,because the way it works for Italy,
and it works differently indifferent countries, but if you invest
€250,000 in an Italianstartup, then you can get a visa
that is good for two years,renewable for three.

(31:17):
And so that's the route that Iwent through.
So what you do is if you godown that route, then you find a
startup that you want toinvest in, and then once you make
that selection and they meetall the criteria that the government
puts in place, then you getwhat's called a Nola Osta, which
is your app.

(31:37):
And it's the same for everykind of visa.
It's your approval for gettingyour visa.
You can then go to the Italianconsulate in wherever it is that
you live.
And you can't go to just any consulate.
You have to make sure that yougo to the one designated for where
you live in the US the otherthing that's really interesting in

(31:58):
Italy is the consulates, butreally throughout Italy is each governmental
organization kind of setstheir own rules.
So what works here in Florencedoesn't necessarily work in Rovigo,
doesn't work in Milan, doesn'twork in Rome.
Exactly.
So.
So.
So even though I could tellyou this is exactly how it works
worked for me, it doesn't meanthat it's necessarily going to work

(32:19):
for you when you go to theconsulate, because.
So I went to the consulatethere in Los Angeles on the west
side, and it took forever toget an appointment there.
So it took about.
I was going for the visa inJune, so I started the process of
getting the background checks,all of that approved in January.
So in.

(32:39):
By June, I had the permissionto go get the visa.
So went to the consulate there.
And what I found worked for meis I just started showing up.
I mean, I just went to thewest side and I got to know the guy
at the guard at the frontdesk, and I was just really friendly
and just asking him, andpretty soon he was giving me hints
on how to make things work.

(32:59):
And then I got.
I finally got in there andwas, you know, then was able to leave
on the 24th of June of July.
So.
But what happens then is.
So you get into Italy withyour visa.
So I have a visa that's goodfor two years in my passport.
And then when you get into thecountry, you have eight days to registered

(33:21):
with the commune.
So, no, that's not theCommunity, it's the Questora, it's
the police department.
So you have eight days.
You have to register that,hey, I want to become a resident
of Florence.
Same thing anywhere in Italy.
And then that's when I got hitwith the August delay.
It's like nothing happened inthe month of August.
I finally got it in September.

(33:44):
And then after you get that,you get your permesso di sorgiorno,
and that's at the next level.
And then what you need to getis a residency card.
And the residency card is doneby the comune, it's done by the city
of Florence.
So went in and got that.
And that was a pretty quick turnaround.

(34:05):
The city of Florence, So goodto work with the Questora, the police
department, they were.
It was the nightmare that youalways hear about.
Yeah.
With bureaucracy, but, youknow, it is what it is.
And then.
And then after that, a fewweeks later, I got my health card.
And so the way it works withhealth cards here is that if you.

(34:25):
With certain types of visas,and again, I'm not the expert here,
but certain types of visas,you have to pay like €2,000 a year
or some amount in that rangefor your health card.
But if you have an investor'svisa, because they know you're going
to be paying taxes, they'relike, oh, it's free, but you get
to pay taxes out there.

(34:46):
But the thing that I.
The real story here is thatit's going to work differently every
time you work with a differentpart of the government, because what
works here in Florence doesn'tnecessarily work that way in Rubigo.
So.
But to me, it's part of the adventure.
I mean, if I wanted things tobe kind of dried, if you have a,

(35:07):
you know, if it really, youknow, if you can't stand that.
That kind of ambiguity aboutthings, it.
It's going to be tough becauseyou're going to go and you're going
to get a different answer whenyou ask a different person the same
question.
So it's even the same person.
The same person.
It's like, so.
But to me, it's part of the.
It doesn't bother me.

(35:28):
So I don't look at it that way.
People hear.
Dan was always giving me hard times.
Like you always said, I havesuch a positive attitude, because
I always say, it'll work out,you know, it will.
You know, it always does.
So.
But yes, you have to beprepared to.
To.
To deal with things.
Then I wanted to buy a car.
So the other trick here is, inItaly, if You're an American and

(35:51):
you come into Italy, you don'tjust turn in your driver's license
for an Italian driver'slicense, even if you've been driving
for ever.
So I have to go.
I have to start as if I was 18years old.
I have to go get.
I have to go take the writtentest in Italian and then I have to

(36:11):
get the little P on the backof my car.
And then I have to take the.
I have to get six hours ofsupervised driving.
And I've got a year to do thisafter I'm a resident, I can drive
for a year on my internationallicense and so on.
So.
So I'll need to do that.
And then as a new driver, youcan only drive an underpowered car,

(36:32):
so you have to have like aclown car for three years.
So.
But there's a little loophole.
If you get an all electriccar, you can get a more powerful
one.
So that's what I did.
I brought an all electric car,a DS Citroen model, and.
Which I really like.
It works out really well.
So the other thing I learned.

(36:54):
We'll probably talk aboutspeaking Italian, but save that thought.
Let's go back.
Oops.
Let's go back to the visa thing.
So.
Yes.
Your visa was like a golden visa.
Exactly, exactly.
Okay.
So that's the type of visathat you could buy, purchase for

(37:19):
a certain amount of money, correct?
Yes.
And then if you meet certain.
If you pass the backgroundcheck, which most people should be
able to.
Okay.
And do you know if there's aretirement visa offhand?
There is.
There, there is one out there.
But that's the other thingthat I wanted to do is I wanted to
be able to work in Italy.

(37:41):
Okay.
And so I didn't want to godown the retirement route because
I want to be able to legallywork here.
And with an investor visa, Ican do that.
So.
Yeah.
How long did the whole processtake you?
Yes.
Six months.
That's not too bad.
Oh, it's.
It was.
But one of the things that Idid is I had an agency help me because

(38:01):
I.
I'm a big believer in this.
Like, I.
I don't want to have this.
Can't do great core competencyon how to move to Italy.
It's like there's other peoplethat have been down this road before
many times, so why not tapinto them?
And so I hired a companycalled Smart Move Italy.
There's others out there.
I really liked them.
They did an incredible jobbecause their attitude was always.

(38:23):
Is actually owned by twoCanadians who live here in Florence,
But.
And then all the people thatwork there are.
Are Italian.
But their philosophy wasalways like, anything that would
come up, okay, how do we dealwith it?
How do we fix it?
It wasn't like, oh, no, no drama.
It was just.
No, just go down this roadsort of thing.
They also were my real estateagent for when I bought my house.

(38:45):
Gotcha.
So I'm a big believer in hiring.
Yeah, definitely.
Especially in a foreigncountry, you don't know the laws,
so it's really important tohire somebody that could help you
do that.
Okay, so six months wasn't too bad.
I wonder if it takes longerfor different types of visas, but
we don't know that, so.

(39:07):
Well, I do know that if you'regoing for citizenship based on family
ties, it can take a long time.
That seems to be the one that.
That people take years to get.
Does your visa provide for aroadmap or a road to citizenship
after a certain amount of years?
Because after five years, Ican become a resident.

(39:28):
Okay.
Okay.
It's a different level ofresidency than what I have right
now, but, yes, then.
And then after that, permanent residency.
Five years of being thepermanent resident.
Maybe that's the term is.
Then I can apply forcitizenship to have the dual citizenship.
Okay.
Okay, good.
All right, let's roll rightalong to the LGBTQ community and

(39:52):
inclusivity.
Tell us a little bit about theLGBTQ community.
I know Italy in itself doesn'thave same sex marriage, so they won't
marry you, although they willhonor your marriage if you are married
somewhere else.
Yes.
Tell us a little bit about that.

(40:13):
Tell us a little bit aboutFlorence itself.
Does it have a gay community?
Surprisingly, it doesn't.
I mean, not a very active one.
I mean, certainly there's nota gay neighborhood.
I mean, like you would find inmost cities in the U.S.
i mean, it's even Rome, thegay neighborhood was pretty sparse.

(40:35):
So it's.
I mean, it's gay friendly.
I mean, people you never, youknow, I have never felt, you know,
like that was a problem.
You know, I, you know,certainly the people at the agency,
you know, anyone, it's like,you know, I tell them what the deal
is.
So.
So.
And I've never had anynegative reaction that I can think
of really anywhere.

(40:56):
But at the same time, it's not.
There's not.
They're not gay bars.
There's not, you know,community centers.
There's a gay Pride that'scoming up in Prado in June that I
will be Interested to see what.
What that's like.
I've also discovered it's.
It's strange here, but Sunday afternoons.
Sundays are like gay day influencer.
And it's like you will seeguys holding hands, guys kissing

(41:20):
out in public that you wouldnever see the other days.
And there.
There are bars because there'sthis one bar.
So I walked by on Sundaynight, I was like, whoa, that's a
Bear bar there.
That's a gay bar.
And so I thought, that's great.
So I went down the next nightbecause I thought it's like, nope,
it was just that one night,just on Sunday.
So Sundays must be their gaybar night.

(41:43):
Yes.
So.
But a lot of it is.
Also deals with the Catholic Church.
And the Catholic Church, Ihave yet.
I still have yet to findanyone that goes to church.
I mean, everyone's, you know,religious, but they don't go to church.
But the Catholic Church hastremendous sway in what happens in
Italy, so.

(42:03):
And that's why the marriage,you know, you can't get married here.
It's because the church doesnot want that to happen sort of thing.
So.
So apparently that didn't sway your.
Your position as far as movingto a place that wasn't totally LGBTQ

(42:23):
friendly.
Yeah, because.
Because some people be like,oh, the prime minister, the.
Or the premier president.
I don't know what.
What her exact title is, is very.
Yeah.
Very left, very right oriented.
Let's say she was the onlyEuropean leader at the president's
inauguration this year.

(42:44):
I mean, she's in well with thecurrent administration out there.
And.
But what I tell people is it's.
I don't have a dog in this hunt.
It's like, I'm not here to be political.
I.
You know, yeah, it's going toimpact certain things, but I don't
worry about what the politicsof Italy are at the moment, because

(43:05):
the other thing that you findhere is that politics change really
much more often than.
Well, than you would havethought that, you know, it does in.
In other parts of the worldout there.
So.
So no, it did not.
That.
That was not a factor for me.
Okay.
And people don't feeluncomfortable living there if they're.
No.
In any couple where they'remarried or not that are here.

(43:29):
I've never heard anyone saythat there was ever any issue of
them being a married couple,being able to do things, you know,
in the community, in thegovernment, you know, that was an
issue.
Okay, let's go on tohealthcare and medical services.
Tell us how's the Healthcare.
Is there a hospital close to you?
Can you walk to the hospital?

(43:51):
What options do they have tohave private versus public health
care?
The healthcare here is amazing.
It's.
And I'm saying that from alittle bit of personal experience
but everything that I've heardfrom everyone else, all the other
acts, expats that have beenhere because like I said, because
I once I became a residentwith my residency card, I could apply

(44:12):
for a health card and thehealth card is, you know, for free
health care.
And I go to the doctor sixminutes away here, closer than Kaiser
was to me in, in California isCorreggy and it is often rated the
number one hospital in all of Italy.
So and it's a huge complex andthe people over there, my doctor

(44:36):
there speaks English and Ifeel really good about having him
as my doctor for any kind ofmedical issue that would ever come
up.
And you know, prescriptionsare free for anything.
So.
And they just, you know, onceyou're in the system now there's

(44:57):
a bit of a strange thing withpublic versus private.
You can, if you're public,some things, some elective things
like elective surgery mighttake a little bit longer than you
would you would want it to take.
But what you do is then you gothe private route, which is actually
what it means is you just paya little bit and then you get an

(45:17):
earlier appointment.
Now when you pay a little bit,you pay like 60, €80.
I mean it's, it inconsequential.
No, just for that one thing.
If there's a certain surgeryyou want.
Oh, so you pay it out of pocket.
Yes, yes.
And it's the same doctor thatwould done it private, public, but
you just get it done earlier.

(45:38):
So which most people, youknow, if it's something that you
know, you feel is reallyurgent, you can do that.
So can you get private insurance?
So you wouldn't want it.
Why you.
Because you're, if you're, ifyou get your health card that covers
everything.
So the only time that youwould look at private is for a particular

(45:59):
event, a particular procedurethat you will.
Then they call it private.
But it's like you're paying toget an earlier appointment basically
is what's happening there.
But, but the quality of thecare that you get here is just as
good as you're going to get, I think.
And from what other peoplehave told me in, in the US or probably.

(46:22):
Better, I wouldn't be surprised.
Okay, you.
So you said you're close by tothe hospital and you have English
speaking Doctors and we didn'treally get into language yet.
Has that been a barrier?
And especially in thehealthcare industry.
So have all of your doctors,you know, do they speak English?

(46:46):
Is there a problem intranslation or.
So I went to the, to get mydoctor to get my health card and
so you get, go in there and myattorney was with me because she
was helping me out and so.
Oh, here's okay, so here'syour health card and here's a list
they sent.
They hand you this dog eared list.
You know, it would bemimeographed if there was such a

(47:07):
thing anymore.
Of all the doctors that youcould have, oh, pick a doctor.
And so, so I picked the onethat had an Indian name because I
thought there's a betterchance he's going to be able to speak
English than the othersbecause one of the things that I
find here is that people donot speak English.
It's like people do speakEnglish in the tourist areas maybe,

(47:29):
but the level of proficiencyis surprisingly less than I would
have anticipated.
I think of that is also a goodthing because I want to learn Italian
and I want to be able to havea more Italian experience here and
part of that will be, youknow, to be able to speak Italian.
But certainly any of the,making appointments at the doctor

(47:49):
and things like that.
Buying the car.
I must have been the firstAmerican that Brandini, this huge
dealership ever sold a car tobecause no one spoke English there.
My neighbors, very friendly,super friendly, but it's it, they
don't speak English.
So, so what I've learned to dois I found people who can be translators

(48:13):
for me and just get friends of friends.
People here are just friendly.
It's like, okay, do you knowsomeone that can go with me to go
buy my car, you know, to dothe translation?
Oh yeah, my, my cousin or my,my, my sister's boyfriend doesn't
have a job, so yeah, he can go with.
And they're more than happy todo that.
And you find people because myphilosophy is if it's something that's

(48:34):
important, get it translated.
They're working on the gas,turning on the gas here at the house.
And I was like, you need somebody.
We'Re going to have someonehere that can understand exactly
what needs to be done.
Yeah, Google Translate justdoesn't go that far.
No.
So, okay, all right, so okay,wrapping up the healthcare.

(48:56):
So that, that seems like sothe personal experiences were good,
doctors were good, hospitalsare close and good healthcare.
So that's great.
All right, so again we're backto transportation and walkability.
We touched upon that.
You touched upon the bullettrains that Florence has.

(49:21):
Is everything.
Can you describe.
Is everything walkable?
So can you walk to the store?
Florence is so unique.
Where I live, I can't becauseI just live far enough.
Yeah, I live like 6 km fromthe city center.
So that's why I wanted a carand so, you know, to be able to go
down.
But when you get into the cityitself, it's like you can't drive

(49:45):
in the city.
You have to walk.
So Florence is unbelievably walkable.
I mean, it's.
It.
You walk a lot.
But it's, to me, just interesting.
I mean, it's.
It.
You want to be walking, soit's not like a chore, it's like
an adventure.
So you can walk to thebutcher, the baker, the candlestick
maker.
The pharmacy.

(50:06):
The pharmacy and everything.
The big, you know, whateveryou needed.
The town cobbler.
Yes.
Okay, so that's.
And the bank and all that good stuff.
Oh, that's perfect.
And it keeps the weight down, too.
Yes, it helps.

(50:26):
It helps.
Okay.
And you mentioned also thatthey have the train in the middle
of the town.
Right.
That could take you to otherplaces within Italy.
Yes, yes.
Does it go to any other countries?
Yeah, you can go anywhere in Europe.
Wow.
I mean, it's.

(50:46):
They just.
Oh, they just had the newovernight train from Milan to Paris.
They brought that back.
So it's like, yeah, you canget on the train.
And the train is just such apleasant experience.
Big seats.
They give you food than flying.
Yeah, but people do flybecause it's.
It can be dirt cheap to fly.
And where's the airport?

(51:07):
There's an airport here inFlorence that is actually just out
by the hospital.
It's really close.
There's not as many flightsout of there.
Most people here will go toBologna or to Pisa.
The airports there are bigger,but there's all these little airlines.
Wizz Air, one of my favoritenames, this Hungarian airline.

(51:27):
But you get.
What is it?
Skyscanner is the app that youlook at and you can get six euro
flights to Albania.
It's like, wow.
It's like.
It can be.
Well, you know, if you're.
If you want to go to Albania.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like.
But you can get.
You can also fly a little bit.

(51:48):
If you're going to go toParis, you're probably going to.
You're going to fly.
If you're going to go toScotland, you're going to fly.
So it's Transportation ispretty good for you, so you could.
The airport's there, thetrains are there and.
Yeah.
And it's walkable, so that's pretty.
That's great.
Okay.
How about arts and culture?

(52:11):
You know, I have to have myarts and culture fix every now and
then.
Then you need to come visitbecause this is art and culture on
steroids.
It's just the museums hereare, are just.
I mean, they're world class.
I mean, that's not necessarilya surprise, but they are so good.
And one of the things that youdo if you're a resident, you can

(52:34):
even get into a lot.
You can get into a lot of themfor free.
So.
And also it.
You start to figure out whenthey're not as busy.
You're not going to go in themiddle of the summer, but other times
of the year and you go Tuesdaynights, they're open late.
A lot of the museums and for residents.
But.
Oh, I mean, to me that's oneof the reasons to be here.

(52:55):
I bought last year, I boughtan annual pass for the Uffizi Museum.
So Boboli Palace Feature Museum.
You just go in there anytimethat you want.
It's like you get a three daypass for $36 or an annual pass for
72.
So it's like €72.
So it's like I used to go tothe Uffizi to use the restroom because

(53:18):
it was just like, it was justso handy and so you could.
So.
And there was always someevent going on.
Is there any jazz translations?
Sorry, Any translation?
Like if you look.
If you're looking at art oryou're in a museum and they have
something written, you knowwhat it is, what the exhibit is it.

(53:38):
I'm sure it's all in Italian.
The really big museums are inEnglish as well because so many of
the tourists.
Interesting.
That show up.
Or if you go like up toVerona, everything's in German.
So.
How about theater?
Is that a challenge?

(54:05):
Have English movies here?
Anything.
That's.
If you go to the Cineplex,you're going to be watching a movie
that's dubbed into Italianwith no subtitles.
So it's just.
Oh.
So it.
Which is good for learning Italian.
But I watch a lot of cartoonsin the cooking channel for Italian.

(54:28):
Yeah.
That's a good way to learn.
All right.
Excellent.
So lots of arts and culturegoing on in Florence as well.
Okay.
Do you know of any LGBTQgroups that might host social events
or is there such a thing?

(54:50):
Not that I have found.
Okay.
To be honest, I Haven't spenta whole lot of time doing it.
But also it goes back to.
And one of the reasons I wantto get better at Italian, any group
like that would be an Italian group.
And if you don't speak thelanguage, you're well enough to have.
I know.
Definitely.
I have not found any expatLGBT groups out there.

(55:11):
Nope.
And again, I haven't looked alot, but I, I probably would have
come across them if they had.
And what I'll alwaysrecommend, and you're part of the.
The reason is get on Facebook.
Use the Facebook groups.
Use all of them.
Because the people there areso helpful and so friendly and you
can learn a lot from theinteraction with people there.

(55:36):
How about the dining andrestaurant scene?
Oh, God, it's like so, you know.
Yeah.
So you're talking aboutculture, art, dining.
Oh, the food here is just unbelievable.
I mean, there are many restaurants.
Oh, yes.
Well, one of the things youfind is there's not a lot of different
kinds of restaurants.
There's a lot of Italianrestaurants, but there's some Mexican

(55:58):
restaurants, there's someChinese restaurants.
Little.
But I'm not a huge fan of those.
But, but the food in theItalian places is so good that now
if you, if, if you were not ahuge fan of Italian food, you're
probably not going to enjoy itas much here because you're not going
to find a Thai restaurant.
You'll find some.
You'll find sushi in a lot of places.

(56:18):
All you can eat sushi placesthat, that are fun.
But, but the food here is, isdefinitely Italian based.
There's one the Australians have.
There's a couple ofAustralians that have a breakfast
place that has actually eggsBenedict and real bagels.
And we do go down therebecause it's like, whoa, this is

(56:38):
like a little taste of home.
Yeah, absolutely.
So the dishes, the Italiandishes are sort of similar than what
we have in the US likemeatballs and, and lasagna and veal
and stuff like that.
Definitely.
Yes.
Yeah.
Pasta.

(56:59):
You have your, you know, yourfirst course, you have your antipasta
and you have your first courseand your second, Your second course.
And then pizza.
Pizza is completely different here.
It's always.
It's really thin crust andit's like one thing, and it's just
one of the things I'm going toput on my terrace here soon is a
pizza oven.
And then I'm going to bereally popular with all the pizzas.

(57:19):
People be coming over becauseI want.
To be able to make that.
It doesn't look as hard as.
As it sounds, but, yeah, the.
The food would not be unfamiliar.
However, there are certainthings that pop up.
It's like here in Florence,they really like tripa.
They like tripe.
Tripe.
And it's just like, yeah, that.
That was my.
Yes.
If you could see his face.

(57:39):
That's my.
But they're so proud of it.
Lampradotto.
And I'm like, if you have toboil it for three days, I don't want
to eat it sort of thing.
And then at Christmas, theyhave zampone.
Pigs.
Pigs feet.
I'm just like these giantChristmas packages.
I'm like, this is crazy.
But for the most part, theItalian food here is going to be

(58:01):
very identifiable and very good.
Awesome.
All right, let's get intocrime and safety.
How safe is it in Florence?
Compare that to the U.S.
so you're in the EU, and Idon't think most countries do not
allow guns.
The US does.

(58:22):
So tell us a little bit aboutsafety for the time that you've been
there.
Is it mainly petty crimes asopposed to violent crimes?
People here do not understandhow people in the US can have guns.
I mean, it just.
People in the US don'tunderstand how.
But it's just such a surprise.

(58:42):
It just doesn't.
They just don't comprehendeveryone having so many people having
guns because they don't havethem here.
And which I think helps.
Yeah, I mean, it's certainly Rome.
I mean, the bigger cities aregoing to have areas you probably
don't want to be in, butthat's going to be true anywhere.
Not necessarily.
But for the most part, I'vealways felt really safe here.

(59:06):
Walking down the street andsafe walking at night.
Yep, yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, there are certainareas I wouldn't necessarily walk
through, but I don't live near them.
Do they have a homeless issue?
They do not.
They do not.
And one of the reasons isbecause if you're homeless, you have.

(59:26):
There are places for you to go.
And so when.
When people.
When Italians.
When you talk to Italiansabout it and you're walking with
them and you see someonethat's homeless that is begging on
the street, like, what's hedoing there?
There's places for him to go.
He has to want to be there.
So it's very, very uncommon to.
Now petty crime, though, is anissue in, like, yeah, I did have

(59:49):
my wallet stolen on the Romesubway, which was no fun on my way
to the Vatican.
But the funny thing is thatwas last year.
This year I was There's astore I was in and I.
This second hand store in anice part of town and there were
some people in there doingstrange things.
I didn't understand whythey're there.
Then I got outside andunderstood why they had taken the

(01:00:11):
wallet out of my pocket, takenall the money and then put it back
in my pocket.
So.
Which I thought it cost melike a hundred euros, but I had all
my ID and everything.
I was just like, thank God they.
So, so one of the things youdo, and especially if you're identified
as a foreigner, as notItalian, because Italians don't have

(01:00:32):
a problem.
What they'll do is they'll.
They hit, they targetforeigners, prey on farms.
It's like you just have to be vigilant.
So you do have to be vigilantwhere you.
I would never been vigilantabout being pickpocketed in la.
Right, okay.
So.

(01:00:52):
All right.
And the.
They have enough police, I'msure to handle any type of.
They've got so many differentlayers of police.
Yes, the police.
And one of the things is younever take pictures of the police.
So I was down at the questorato get my permisso di sojourno and
my lawyer was already there.

(01:01:12):
So I walked.
I was just coming up to thebuilding and you know how you would
do.
It's like if someone's inside,you just take a picture of which
entrance you're at so theywould know.
So I took a picture.
Oh, man.
All these.
Oh no.
All these Italian.
They made such a big deal andthere's a big crowd there, but they're
doing it mostly for their, fortheir bosses.
They come home, they grab my phone.
I was glad they didn't smashit, but they're deleting things off

(01:01:35):
of it and everything.
But I had to keep fromlaughing because it was so comical.
But, but yeah, I mean that.
So, so.
But never really feel thatthey're overbearing or that there's.
In certain places, andcertainly in Rome and in the really
big tourist areas here, therewill be military machine guns out
there.
But you just, you do not takepictures of those people.

(01:01:59):
I will remember that.
Yes, yes.
They will remind you.
Very, very.
I will remember that.
So let's talk about challengesand unexpected aspects.
So what are the mostsignificant adjustments you had to
make to move to Florence?

(01:02:19):
Probably the.
Yeah, yeah.
Having.
Just having to speak Italianbetter is something that I didn't
necessarily expect.
And again, I don't think of itas a bad thing.
But.
But it's certainly it's moreimportant that someone speaks Italian
reasonably well to.
To enjoy life here better.

(01:02:41):
One of the things that I foundhere is that everything is on an
app.
Literally.
I mean, I've got apps thatcontrol everything in this house.
It's like way beyond what Iwould was used to in the United States.
I mean, everything isconnected that way, which is really
good and for the most partworks really well.
So.
But yeah, I mean, therehaven't been any really big, you

(01:03:03):
know, never anything's like,huh, what am I doing here?
Sort of never.
I mean, I never have that.
Are you taking Italian courses?
Yes.
Or a course I've been taking.
I have a tutor that I've beentalking to for a long time, and I
found in one app in particularthat's been being helpful.
I've taken some classes.
I'm a big believer you dodifferent things because one way

(01:03:27):
is not going to solve thewhole thing.
And what you need to do is youjust need to get out there and practice.
People, People are.
You know, it's.
I think it's a stretch to saypeople appreciate you making the
effort.
I think they would appreciateif you spoke better than you did.
But certainly, I mean, the waythat you do it is the way that you

(01:03:50):
get better.
You just get out there and do it.
And that's one of the goodsides of English not being so prevalent,
is that you get a lot ofopportunity to do that.
So let's say you had more timein making the decision whether you
were moving.
Would you have learned ortaken a course in Italian in the

(01:04:12):
States before you got there?
Yes.
Yes, I would encourage that.
The minute you think you mighteven be interested, start.
Okay, good advice.
All right.
Have you made many friends?
Was it easy to make friends?
It is so easy to make friends here.
Are they expat friends or locals?

(01:04:33):
Both.
Both.
It's.
I mean, to me, it's really surprising.
I was thinking the other day in.
I was watching that hokeylittle film on Netflix, the La La
Villa Dolce, which is likeevery American's idea of how it works
in.
In Tuscany sort of thing.
And, you know, they have thebig thing at the end, you know, where
it's a wedding or something,and then all these friends showing

(01:04:54):
up here, it's just like.
It's the same thing here.
It's like, I know my neighbors.
I know my neighbors up anddown the street and.
And, you know, people that Iwork with, you know, professionally.
The other thing that isinteresting here is.
And every expat that I'VEtalked to, agrees people here like

(01:05:15):
to do favors for other people.
Not in a way that's.
That makes you feeluncomfortable, but it's very transactional
because what they want to dois they want to do favors for you
so that you.
They can come to you to get favors.
And it's.
And I.
I don't mean that in a badway, but it's completely different

(01:05:36):
than it is in other places.
So it's like the guy who runsthe startup that I invested in, when
he showed up, when I first gothere, he was like, oh, so what do
you want to do while you're here?
And he said, do you need anyfootball tickets?
You know, do you need.
And I said, I want to do three things.
I want to go to the Ducatifactory, I want to go to the Maserati
factory, and I'm going to goto the Ferrari factory because they're

(01:05:59):
here.
And I just think that would be fun.
He goes, oh, I've got you covered.
He goes, I have a really goodfriend that runs marketing for all
of Maserati.
We will come down, we'll pickyou up, we'll take you to the personal
tour of Maserati.
As it turns out, the guy, theweek before the tour left Maserati,
so we did not get to do that.

(01:06:19):
But.
But people like to do favorsin those kinds of ways, which, to
me is good.
I mean, I don't think of thatas a bad thing.
So, yeah, making friends here, it's.
It's easier than I would have expected.
Very good.
I'm glad that it works outthat way.

(01:06:39):
Absolutely.
Okay.
Do you know if there's anydownsides, if there are any downsides
to retiring in Florence thatpeople should know about?
It's expensive.
Okay.
I mean, that's.
That would be the one thing.
I mean, I mean, to me, it's just.
It's.
I'm just so lucky to be ableto live here because there's so many
things going for it.
I mean, I would live.

(01:07:00):
I'd rather live here thananywhere else in, In Italy, because
to me, it's just that muchmore interesting.
It's centrally located to geteverywhere else.
People are friendly and justlike things for the house here.
It's like in furnishing thehouse, it's.
The place that I bought hereis six.
Six kilometers out of town,but it's in a community that was
built by a local architectnamed Leonardo Ricc and back in the

(01:07:22):
1950s.
And so we're refurnishing the house.
You Know, So with things thatfit the style of the house.
And I have an Italian.
I have an Italian interiordesigner, which are easier to come
by here.
So.
So, you know, but we'regetting all this stuff made by local
artisans.
It's like these brass lampsfor the bedroom, the.

(01:07:44):
The wallpaper.
I mean, we just go to these places.
And the carpet, the rug, Imean, they make them locally.
Everything in the house willbe Italian and hopefully from.
From Florence, because it.
You're able to do that.
So.
So.
So, yeah.
But, yes, it can be expensiveto be here, but it doesn't have to

(01:08:04):
be expensive to live in Italy.
So if people are interested inliving in Italy, don't shy away from
finding other places in Italyto be.
You've talked to other peopleon your podcast.
Oh, yeah.
Lived in some other places.
Yeah.
So.
So the downside here would.
I think, would be that it'smore expensive than some other places

(01:08:25):
out there.
But that's about the only thing.
Okay, now, final thoughts and advice.
So if someone is consideringretiring in Florence, what advice
would you give them?
Any words of wisdom that youmight have.
Do it.
Just.
It's just.
What were.
We were talking about Nike before.

(01:08:47):
Just do it.
Right.
It's like.
No, I mean, it's like I said, it's.
I don't know how many timesI've texted people.
I'm like, this was just suchthe right decision for me at this
time.
It's like, I.
I'm in.
I think I'm.
Well, I know I'm just lucky ina lot of ways to be able to make
it happen.
And so on the other thing that I'm.
That was a real benefit.

(01:09:07):
And it's true, no matter whereyou might go.
I got a chance to clean out ahouse in Burbank that I'd lived in
for 30 years, and the garagewas really full.
And now no one has to go whenI'm no longer here.
No one has to go clean out thehouse for Uncle Tom and take care
of all that.
And that was no smallundertaking, I'm sure, to make that

(01:09:28):
happen.
But it's.
That's another thing thatgives, you know, gives you power.
It's like, because I.
I gave away more things thananything else.
I mean, I sold some things,and I brought a bit I would recommend,
because a lot of people willgive you advice.
Oh, I just came with four suitcases.
Great.
If that works for them.
More power to them.
Didn't work for me.
I wanted some things thatmeant something to me that I wanted

(01:09:51):
to have around me because I donot expect, I mean, for me and I
would tell everyone there,this is a one way trip.
I'm not coming back.
And again, it's not that, oh,it's a horrible place.
And it's like, no, there's somany other things that I want to
be doing with the remainingyears while I still can sort of thing.
So.

(01:10:12):
So yeah, so take theopportunity to clean out your house.
Declutter.
Yes.
That's a feature, not a bugfor it.
If someone is interested incoming to Florence, come visit.
I mean, Florence is, you know,one of the cities people can understand
really quickly.

(01:10:32):
Is this something that, isthis where they want to live or not?
Come and spend a little bit oftime here, travel around Italy, see
if there are other places.
But no, I would encourageanyone to, to be able to do it.
I'm going to follow up withyou, of course, because we're friends
anyway, and see how yourjourney is coming and how you're

(01:10:54):
doing.
And I'm just interested inwhat goes on in your adventure.
It is an adventure.
It is.
And one of the reasons, one ofthe things I'm going to do because
I'm not quite sure what,what's going to happen with the podcast
that I've been doing.
The gamers change lives, whichhas been great.
I think I'm going to changedirection and maybe do a different

(01:11:14):
podcast talking more aboutstartups in Italy because I think
there's a lot of stories to betold there that aren't told out there.
But I just think there's,there's just so many different things
to.
So many different directionsto go.
It's just, it, it's justinteresting that way.
And you should come visit someday.
I'd love that.

(01:11:34):
It's like, oh, that was theother thing when I bought the house
here.
It's like it has threebedrooms and the real estate people
like, why does one person wantto have three bedrooms?
That's like, it's way too.
It's like I'm going to have guests.
Guests and you have an officeand you know.
Yes, yes.
So it's different.
But that's also part of thefun of living in somewhere like Florence

(01:11:57):
is to be able to share it withother people that can come and, and
experience it as well.
Well, thank you for sharingyour travels, your wisdom.
Thank you for helping me alongmy podcast journey.
Yes.
If there's, if there's everanything, any other, if you ever
want more advice, you just letme know.
I will.

(01:12:17):
Well, thanks Tom, thank you somuch for joining us today at the
podcast.
It was very educational.
I learned a lot and we'lldefinitely keep in touch.
Okay, great.
Hey, thanks.
Thanks again for the opportunity.
All right, thanks Tom.

(01:12:38):
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