September 8, 2024 • 59 mins
Imagine a city where you can walk amongst skyscrapers one moment and spot a giraffe the next. Our guest, Vincent, fresh from a two-month adventure in Nairobi, takes us on an extraordinary journey through Kenya, sharing firsthand experiences from his upbringing near Lake Victoria to his current life in the Bay Area. We explore Kenya’s diverse tribes and educational system, and the unique blend of English and Kiswahili that colors daily conversations.
This episode shines a light on Kenya's rich cultural traditions and culinary delights, especially during Christmas. Discover how Kenyans celebrate the festive season with grand feasts and family gatherings, rather than focusing on gift-giving. We also discuss the regional culinary treats you can't miss, from succulent tilapia to the freshest coastal seafood. And if you're a travel enthusiast, our guest's tips on the best times to visit Mombasa, Lamu, and Malindi will be invaluable.
Finally, we delve into the vibrant sports culture and cosmopolitan lifestyle of modern Nairobi. Learn about the city's affordability compared to places like the Bay Area, the innovative mobile payment system M-Pesa, and the must-visit spots like Nairobi National Park and the Masai Mara National Reserve. Plus, get a taste of Kenya's sweet side with desserts like mandazi and mahamri, and explore the nation's music traditions that range from the ancient Nyatiti to contemporary Afrobeats. Tune in for a rich, multifaceted look at Kenyan life, culture, and travel that promises to both inform and inspire.
Map of Kenya
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, welcome to our podcast when Next Travel with
Kristen and Carol.
I am Kristen.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
And I am.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Carol and we're two long-term friends with a passion
for travel and adventure.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Each episode, we interview people around the
globe to help us decide where togo next.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome to when Next, and I'm so excited to dive into
Nairobi and learn more aboutyour home country.
Now were you there recently?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
This is a pleasure to talk to you, christine and
Carol.
Yes, I was in Nairobi, in Kenyain general, not too long ago,
so I just came back.
So I was there from beginningof March through the end of
April, so about two months.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh wonderful, so you have all your family is there.
Are you the only one out here?
Oh wonderful, so you have allyour family is there.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Are you the only one out here?
No, so we are sort of split.
I have seven siblings five boys, three girls.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Oh, so yeah, eight total.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Eight total.
Yes, so I've got two brothershere, and then the rest of my
siblings are back in Kenya, andthen I've got my mom over here
as well.
But yes, I'm originally fromKenya.
That's where I was born, raised, went to school, grew up there,
started my professional careerthere before I moved to the US
(01:40):
about 20 years ago.
Wow, what brought you to the US?
My work brought me to the US.
I got the opportunity to comefor what was called a global
development program by my farm.
I used to work for DeloitteTouche, which is a public
(02:02):
accounting firm, and so theynominated me to come out here
for just 18 months.
But then I came to the Bay Area, san Francisco, fell in love
with the place and I never wentback.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
That's fantastic.
So do you have any family here?
Siblings that are here?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, I have two brothers here, I have a nephew
here and I have my mom is hereas well.
I am not married.
I have my long term girlfriend,who is also Kenyan.
We've been together a long time.
We have no kids, yeah, and sothat's the family.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
That's wonderful.
Well, I would love to hear also, like in terms of growing up
there and what it was like.
And I was curious school is itlike I know here elementary
school, middle school, highschool and then college?
How is it?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Excellent.
I think over the years theeducation system has changed a
little bit, but just to give youan overview.
So Nairobi is the capital cityof Kenya and that's in the East
Africa, the eastern part ofAfrica.
It's bordered by Uganda ifyou've heard of Uganda, ethiopia
(03:19):
, south Sudan, somalia andTanzania and then on the
southeastern part of the countryis the Indian Ocean, so we have
a coastal border as well, andKenya has so many different
tribes I think we have 41distinct tribes, so all those
(03:43):
are different languages.
I'm from a tribe called LuoL-U-O, which I believe is the
fourth largest tribe currentlyin Kenya.
So growing up, I was born andraised on the western part of
the country, right by the shoresof Lake Victoria.
(04:04):
I believe Lake Victoria iseither the largest or the second
largest freshwater lake in theworld.
So my tribe, the Luo, aregenerally known to be fishermen.
I did not grow up fishing,though, but we used to go to the
lake a lot.
So the equivalent of elementaryschool when I went to school, I
(04:30):
think, is similar to going tograde one through eight and then
, after grade eight, you go toso and we would call it primary
school.
That was primary school wasfrom standard one up to standard
eight, right, and then afterthat you go to high school and
then you go to the university oryou go to college yeah, whether
(04:53):
it's a tertiary college foryour diploma, or university, to
get your bachelor's degree.
Interestingly enough, the earlyyears of primary school I think
it was from grade one to threemost of the education there was
done in your tribe's mothertongue.
(05:14):
It was very segregated backthen, like if you went to a
school that was in your ruralarea.
The early years you are taughtin your mother tongue, and then
English was then the language ofeducation.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, do most people speak English.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yes, most people.
If you've gone to school,you'll likely be speaking
English.
Oh wow, although we have anational language that most
people speak across the country.
It's called Kiswahili.
So almost everybody knowsKiswahili, but English, yes, if
(05:53):
you go to school, that's thelanguage that's used to teach
people.
But then there are also peoplewho, if you don't go to school,
but you're still able to pick itup, just you know talking to
people and watching TV,listening to news.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Growing up.
I'm just looking at picturesbecause you were in the main
city.
I've got my computer here aswell.
It's funny.
It's got a picture of buildingsand then a giraffe going
through the green.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
What's interesting about Nairobi?
I grew up on the western part,so it's a city called Kisumu,
but then in my college I went toNairobi, so pretty much my
university was in Nairobi.
Then I started working inDeloitte over there, so most of
my adult life was in Nairobi.
What's interesting with Nairobi?
I think it's the only city, orone of the few, that has
(06:49):
national park, a game reserve,pretty close to it.
So if you're somebody who isinto nature or game reserves or
you love to see animals and youtravel to Kenya and you're in
Nairobi, then it's a very easyshort day trip to just go to the
Nairobi National Park andyou'll be able to see all the
(07:13):
animals, the famous animals thatpeople know.
We should think about the bigfive.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So, Vincent, I remember we talked to someone
from I can't remember where inAfrica, but they said there's
only certain countries where youcan actually see the apes.
Is it Kenya?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Kenya?
No.
So you can see, kenya hasmonkeys and small apes, if you
think about the big apes, thegorillas, and that would be
another country called Congo,the Democratic Republic of Congo
even.
Uganda.
That's where then you'd see themassive, huge apes.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Okay, got it Okay great.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And you said something about the big five.
If you wanted to go see the bigfive, what are those five?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So the big five?
That were those?
What are those five?
So the big five, uh, thatpeople normally tend to want to
see.
So you have the elephant,leopards, um lions, uh, the
rhinos and the buffaloes.
So it's a buffalo, rh, rhino,leopard, lion, elephant.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
No giraffes, no giraffes.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
So that's interesting because you know, think about
it, you know it's really big,but the reason I think they
coined that term, the big five,I think these were the five
animals that were most poached,right, illegally hunted down,
and at some point they were onthe verge of extinction, or
(08:53):
maybe not, but they are theprotected animals.
Giraffes not so much, andthat's why, I think they use the
term the big five in terms ofaffinity to poachers right.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
So what did you do?
What kind of things did you dogrowing up and your traditions,
sports that you may have done asa kid, or things that were fond
memories of good memoriesgrowing up?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Wow, there is a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I figured.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I don't even know if I asked people that, but you
grew up there, so I'd love tohear how that was growing up.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, I think what I loved most growing up was is
that we were just free as kids.
Yeah, you know we lived.
There was no fear of being outthere.
You know we lived, there was nofear of being out there.
And so we grew up in bigfamilies, like the African
families sometimes were very big.
An interesting thing for you toknow my paternal grandfather,
(09:57):
for example, had 18 wives rightoh, wow, All at once right.
Like kind of All at once, right, like kind of all at once, and
traditionally people tended tolive in the same homesteads.
So him, because of the 18 wives,he had three different
homesteads.
The homestead I grew up in Ihad three grandmothers from my
(10:21):
paternal grandfather, threegrandmothers from my paternal
grandfather, and each of thosehouseholds had, you know, I
would say, a minimum of fivekids.
So from each of them I wouldhave step uncles and then you
have many different cousins, sogrowing up, it used to be a
really big family and you couldgo to any of your stepmother's
(10:47):
houses and you are all kids ofthe same people.
You could eat there.
There was never like, oh, thisis our house, that's so-and-so's
house, so it was all one bigcommunity.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Wow, and does that still happen today?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
No, Okay, wow, and does that still happen today?
No, okay, I think other peoplestill try to do it, but I think
back then I think there was landand people could do farming for
subsistence, and there was theclimate and weather patterns
also allowed for people to farma lot, and weather patterns also
(11:26):
allowed for people to farm alot.
But nowadays, with globalwarming, things have changed.
Because of the populationgrowth, land is minimal now, and
so people are becoming, arehaving smaller and smaller
families.
I don't have kids myself.
My dad only had one wife right,even though his dad had 18
wives, so it's very differentnow and people are more
(11:51):
conscious about what's happeningin the rest of the world.
There is family planning.
A lot of people live in thecities and are more into the
Western ways of doing things,which is very different I see
Speaker 1 (12:06):
absolutely so did you see that in your girl
upbringing this, this big, hugechange right through how things
were as a kid to um and and Idon't know how, how was that um
or you know, I guess, with your?
It was, that was yourgrandfather, so it was just it
was your dad who just had onewife and then, but you've got
(12:28):
this wonderful huge family rightyeah, it's, it's, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean, um, you look back there the the things that I
loved about having such bigfamilies.
But there are also things thatgrowing up then I didn't, I came
not to like right, like when Igot into the university and when
(12:54):
I joined, the first year wassort of government sponsored
free, and then from the secondyear we had to pay fees and so
on.
That's when it started dawningon me that you know we didn't
have enough money for me to goto college.
And so you, you start scrap,you know, crapping through
different resources to just getthrough your education.
(13:17):
And then you compare yourselfwith families that you know were
coming with small families,right, two, three in their
family.
They didn't struggle so much.
And then when I started working, then I we used to use this
terminology of people startinglife with negative opening
(13:40):
balances versus positive openingbalances right yeah, so you
start working, maybe if you areamongst the eldest in your
family, that's talking from atrue accountant there, by the
way.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I just wanted to point that out.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Just pop that in there Exactly so.
You start off and you realizethat your younger siblings
become your responsibility, andit was expected in the family
it's not really part of.
You know it's not your kid oryou know, but you have to pay
school fees for them or makesure they're they are doing okay
(14:16):
, and your parents would look upto you to to help out.
So those are some of the thedisadvantages that I saw that I
didn't like but I still likedthe idea of having so many
different people you could leanon, you could reach out to, you
could hang out with, and so wealways look forward to holidays,
(14:40):
right, like even today.
I tend to go back almost everyDecember because we tend to
always go to an uncle's placeright, and an uncle would invite
everybody and I meet relativesthat I've never met before, just
given how big we were, and it'scool.
(15:01):
It's cool that we do that andit's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely so.
What is a holiday Not Christmas?
Is it Kwanzaa?
What do you guys celebrate atChristmas time?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Oh yeah, so 70% are Catholics and then the others
are, you know, Protestant orother Christian religions, and
then we have, I think, about 10%of the country is Muslim.
I don't know if you guys arereligious, but if you are like
Catholic, Christmas is hugeright.
(15:50):
So people would look forward toChristmas as well as the Easter
weekend, right Good Friday andEaster Monday.
That weekend is huge.
So the country recognizes thoseperiods as national holidays,
in addition to just other, youknow more political holidays
(16:11):
that the country has.
But, Christmas is huge and theEaster weekend is huge.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So I just have to I guess I don't know geek out.
I love Christmas as well.
I guess I love to celebratethose holidays.
So Christmas trees, and is it?
What is the tradition like that?
It's funny because I know whatAustralia, you know it's flipped
, so it's kind of their winterand I didn't or what.
(16:39):
It's their summer, not theirwinter, whereas here it's the
winter and I don't know where inthe world if that's the similar
Kenya too.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
That's.
That's summer for Kenya, right,it's uh, it's hot around that
time.
That's when we get actuallymost stories from Europe and
even, you know, um, the US andso on, because it's warm out
there, yeah, so, even thoughChristmas is big, but the
concept of Christmas trees,that's new to us now.
(17:09):
So families nowadays, peoplelive in the cities and so on,
now they they have that conceptof Christmas trees, largely
because kids watch what'shappening in the western world.
But we didn't have, we't growup with Christmas trees.
But what would happen is thatwas a time, for it was almost
(17:32):
like Thanksgiving here in the US, right, so everybody goes back
home around that time just to bearound family.
On Christmas Eve, you'd spendalmost the entire night in
church, at least up to untilmidnight, and then go home and
then the following day, onChristmas day, again go to
(17:54):
church, come back, then it'sjust feasting, right, there
wasn't even the concept of giftgiving either, right, but it was
just lots of food, seeing lotsof relatives that you don't get
to see all the time, and peoplejust being together, and that's
how people used to celebrate andthat's the time also.
(18:18):
You would try and, uh, orfamilies would try, and you know
, cook some of the best foodsthat you don't cook all the time
, or things that you've alwaysdesired to have.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay, so we should go to that.
What are some popular foodsthere?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
People often ask me what's the Kenyan food?
And I struggle with that alittle bit, because all the
different, the different tribesin Kenya tend to make the same
food but make it differently,right.
So, like, on the meat side,beef, goat meat chicken are huge
(18:57):
, right.
And then fish is also huge, andprimarily one particular type
of fish, and that's tilapia.
So the general seafood, if youthink about, you know, either
crabs or shrimp, or those aresort of confined to the coastal
(19:18):
part of the country, right?
So the coastal part of Mombasa,which is so the coastal part of
Mombasa, which is a very, veryfamous tourist destination as
well.
Some of the best beaches in theworld is found in Mombasa.
Yeah, so Mombasa, m-o-m-b-a-s-a.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So if you want to look up in that region Deani
D-E-I-i.
I see it dianii like diane, butwith an I at the end instead of
an e yes, yes, and I see a ladyon a camel and the picture.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Wow, that's gorgeous if you if you are ever in kenya,
like a lot of people who cometo Kenya.
Obviously most people fly intoNairobi, spend some time in
Nairobi, go for some of the gamedrives, but I would say 90% of
people tend to go to the coastas well.
There are a few towns up northalong the coast as well.
(20:42):
Apart from Mombasa, there'sLamu and there's Malindi up
north along the coast as well.
Apart from Mombasa, there'sLamu.
There is and there's Malindi upnorth as well.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
That's equally beautiful and what's the best
time of year to go, since it'sprobably pretty hot yeah, the
best time to go, honestly I'dsay it's like the September
October time.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So September, october , november timeframe, or even
February, no, march, april, june, july is also good.
June, july, august isrelatively cool right.
So, Nairobi gets a little cold,but still not cold compared to
(21:23):
here in winter, and so Mombasais very hot.
So the May, june, july, augustit cools down just a little bit,
but not that much.
Okay yeah, is Nairobi elevateda little bit.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Is there mountains there?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Nairobi.
Yeah, nairobi is.
I think it's about six feetabove sea level, 6,000 feet
above sea level.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh, okay, so it is quite a bit All right.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
So it's a bit elevated.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And it has, I'm assuming mountain regions as
well.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yes, oh yeah, there are lots of hills and mountains
in Kenya.
Mount Kenya, for example, is,if you are a mountain climber
you know it's one of the best togo to, very challenging, and
it's not far from MountKilimanjaro as well.
(22:22):
On the Tanzania side, rightManjaro as well on the Tanzania
side right, but so MountKilimanjaro is easier to climb
than Mount Kenya.
Mount Kilimanjaro is higherthan Mount Kenya, but Mount
Kenya is more steeper thanKilimanjaro.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Wow more difficult.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
More difficult.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
To do yes.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
So you have Mount Kenya and then the regions
around Mount Kenya.
They are definitely they'redefinitely in the highlands a
lot colder in those areas.
Then, as you come down toNairobi, still elevation is
still high, but the temperatureis a lot more moderate, actually
throughout the year.
So it's really beautiful inNairobi and then as you move
(23:07):
down to the coast, then it's hot.
Then the northern part of thecountry is also very hot.
The northern part of thecountry, half of the country on
the northern side, is semi-aridand arid.
It's just like a desert right.
So it's very hot up there.
So most people live in thesouthern half of the country
(23:31):
it's a, it's a.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Even looking at the map, it's brown on the top and
then it's got green around thethe coastline and over here that
kind of looks like it goesbrown to the bottom exactly I
can imagine and it and it'sinteresting because, looking at
the map, all the cities look inthe green spots.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yes, Makes sense, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Human beings want to live in areas that's a little
bit more habitable, right.
Absolutely, but we can alwaysreclaim even the dry areas to
see what places like Dubai havedone right.
So it's not impossible to makethose other places habitable as
well.
We just haven't done it yet.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Football, I'm assuming, is very big, aka
soccer here in the US.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Correct.
So I was going to ask you whichfootball are you referring to,
but you quickly said soccer.
Yes, yeah, so soccer is huge inKenya, even though Kenya has
never done very well at theinternational level.
But people there love, loveplaying and watching soccer in
(24:44):
general, so the country tends tofollow the English Premier
League a lot and people can evenhave fights in watching some of
those competitions on TV inbars.
Right, because some people aresupporting some teams, others
(25:06):
are supporting others and youknow arguments do come up, but
yes, soccer is super huge.
Personally, growing up, Iplayed just a little bit of
soccer, but I was largely intofield hockey and then rugby oh,
rugby.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I I'm assuming rugby is pretty big.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Rugby is big, rugby is very big there.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, and they don't have, like baseball and football
, us football or things likethat.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
No, no.
The closest spot that you knowis very popular here in the US
is basketball.
It's very popular here in theUS is basketball, so basketball
is played.
There are a lot of kids who dothat, and even at national level
we have a basketball league,but it's not that popular.
The other one that's verypopular is that's close to
(26:02):
baseball, but it's not.
That's cricket.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh, okay, and cricket , yes, okay, that makes lots of
english influence?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
it sounds like yeah both english and indian
influence.
Oh, okay, so.
So the country, um, I think, uh, kenya has the second highest
population of indians.
Africa I think South Africa hasthe most number of Indians and
(26:30):
then Kenya the second most inAfrica.
Where I grew up, the city Iwent to high school in which is
in the western part of Kenya,was primarily dominated by the
Indians, so my high school wasprimarily Indian.
In fact, I think Blacks were aminority in that school.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, even the local leaders of the city were Indians
.
Yeah, so there's a huge Indianinfluence in Kenya.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Wow, are they that close?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I'm trying to look out here to look the way they
came to be.
Kenya was colonized by theBritish, and so the British, in
looking to find ways oftransporting, you know, whatever
they were mining inland all theway to the coast to put them on
ships, they were building thishuge railway line.
(27:33):
That time they had alreadycolonized India, so they brought
a lot of Indians to build therailway.
So once the railway was done,most of the Indians did not go
back, they just stayed in thecountry, and that's how that
population started.
Got it and then, over the years,they started businesses and
(27:54):
they've continued to.
Yeah, people have continued tocome in.
But what I'm seeing now inNairobi, for example, Nairobi
itself has become verycosmopolitan.
Right example, Nairobi itselfhas become very cosmopolitan.
Right, there are parts ofNairobi you could be in and
wonder if you are in Kenya, evenLike there's a section of
(28:15):
Nairobi called Westlands.
Westlands is that there's somany expatriates that live there
.
We now have so manyinternational companies that
have offices there, companieslike Microsoft, IBM, Apple.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So what's like the cost of living?
If someone like say, wanted tonot expat, but you know, go
spend some time there and workwhile we're there, how
affordable is it?
You live in the Bay Area, I'massuming it's less expensive
than that.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It's definitely way.
The cost of living there is way, way less compared to, you know
, the US or even the Bay Areahere.
The one thing that is expensiveis accommodation is expensive
oh, it is okay especially if youwant to.
If you want to, you know, livein in similar, you know
(29:13):
apartments or standards for theus, like in westlands.
If you got a one-bedroom airbnbyou'd probably pay close to
maybe a thousand dollars, athousand two hundred dollars a
month okay, okay but on a dailybasis I think you could still
(29:36):
get a decent place, a onebedroom at, say you know, 40, 35
dollars a night, 35 a night.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
okay, got it.
Yeah, I'm looking at thepictures and it's very nice.
I mean all of the buildings,the shopping, all of the.
I mean it looks like it's verythe pictures at least I'm seeing
here very clean and nice andmodern.
So a lot of really neatarchitecture.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
It's very modern, so it's only accommodation that is
high up there.
Everything else the food isvery cheap.
Transportation If you requestedfor Uber, there are also other
competitors of Uber that aremore local.
There are also othercompetitors of Uber that are
(30:26):
more local.
It's like being in New YorkCity, like it's.
You better request Uber whenyou're ready.
Right, it's like two minutes,it's right there and within
(30:52):
Nairobi you are.
There's hardly anywhere you aregoing to go that you'll pay.
I would more than ten dollars,right, like, like it's.
It's a dollar, two dollars worthof.
You know um uber rides almostanywhere you go, wow, so which
is extremely cheap, yeah, andthen the foods.
I think even if you go to someof the high-end places, fine
dining, if you spend like 30bucks on your food, then that's
(31:15):
really really good food, right?
Yeah, okay, you'd probablyspend $10, $15 tops as one
person at even some of thesehigh-end dining places.
There are also a lot of, like,local restaurants that are
decent, that just have localfood and so on.
(31:38):
That's fresh, that you knowyou'll be paying $1, $2 for the
food.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Oh, okay, for lunch or something.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What's a traditional meal so?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
it's very the food, oh, okay, okay, lunch or
something.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
What's a traditional?
So it's very, very, veryaffordable.
Yeah, exactly what wouldsomeone?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
get for a dollar, two dollars.
What type of meal would thatlook like?
So, one of the type this typeof foods in Kenya across the
board, there is.
I would say I would call it abread.
Really it's a cornmeal bread,right, and it's used as the
(32:17):
table food that accompanieseverything else.
So think of it as rice, right,and then you could have then
beef stew or beef fry, orchicken stew with some
vegetables, and so on.
So this cornmeal, it's, um, theway it's cooked is very simple.
(32:37):
You boil water and then you put, you know, corn flour in it and
there's a way that you mix ituntil you get the right
consistency that you want, andthen now and then it's, it's,
and most people just eat itusing hands.
So if you have that with umbeef stew and and vegetables and
(32:58):
fried vegetables yeah, could belike fried collard greens,
right?
Um, it could be, you know,fried Swiss chard or spinach,
right?
Yeah, that would probably bejust a dollar and a half.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So when you're saying , eat it with your hands, is it
like a like a dough, is it likea soup or is it like it's more
like a dough, right?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
So you, you, you grab it with your hands and then
maybe do just a little bit ofkneading with your hand and then
use it to scoop the the saucefrom your plate and the
vegetables and mix it that waywith some meat and then, yeah,
and then put it in your mouth.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, I've been to like Ethiopian restaurants
before and they had like it wasalmost like a tortilla, but like
almost texture of like apancake, though I wonder if it's
similar.
And then it was a lot of thescooping you pile stuff on top
of each other.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
What's it called?
What's that bread type called?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, so in Kiswahili it's called ugali U-G-A-L-I.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
U-G-A-L-I Okay.
I figured, I'd get a picture ofit.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Oh yeah, it looks like.
Well, it poofed up like a yes,yeah, it's white and White.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
You can get brown too .
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Okay, yeah, from yellow corn.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, and you can get brown too.
Okay, yeah, from yellow corn.
Yeah, and you can get brown too.
The ethiopian uh cattle you'resaying is called ingera.
Okay, yeah, they make it out ofthis grain that I believe is
only found in ethiopia, eventhough a few countries nowadays
have it.
They must have smuggled it out,but it was trademarked for
Ethiopia, only called the.
(34:50):
The grain is called TEFFT-E-F-F okay yeah, I think one
of the healthy, the healthiestgrains in the world oh, really
okay, I think I remember.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, we talked to someone from Ethiopia once yeah,
it kind of sounds vaguelyfamiliar, someone here says chef
is terrific, it's a guy holdingit up, it kind of almost looks
like a quinoa or something likethat exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, I think it's the same family as quinoa okay,
yeah, that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
And then, um, it's funny when I have the ugali up
it says is you question?
People ask is ugali the same asfufu?
I don't know if that's a foodthat you guys eat, but it oh
yeah, so fufu is, they're verysimilar so fufu is more west
african, so it's um uh, nigeria,gh.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Cameroon.
Yeah, they call it fufu, butit's made similarly, it's just
the consistency is a littledifferent.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
It looks more like well, the picture.
It looks like it's saranwrapped, almost like eggs on I
don't know, kind of more shinyor something, but it could be
the saran wrap that I'm seeingon the picture.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, they look more like a biscuit and more looks
like I don't know, like a fixedbread.
Yeah, oh, interesting okay,gosh, it's so interesting how,
like every country, everycountry, but so many countries
like there's a staple that's sodifferent, but it's maybe
slightly.
You know, like in South Americathere was a lot of this foreign
(36:29):
maize, and then there'stortillas in Mexico, and then
there's rice all over Asia, andthen you guys have these various
different grains.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Looks like yeah, I love the name fufu yeah, so in
Kenya, like one of the thingsthat a lot of people would if
you visited families there.
Kenyans love grilling, right?
Is it barbecue or grilling?
I sometimes confuse the two,like I was told that it's
(37:00):
different Barbecue and grillingis different.
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, I never really thought about that.
I think they're kind of thesame in my mind.
But you know, yeah, youbarbecue and you use it on a
grill yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
so the kenyan style is, uh, whether it's goat meat
or just beef, so it's, it's justputting meat on of a fire,
right on in open space, outthere over fire, uh, even the
sometimes we don't even marinateit right, so it's just it's
(37:36):
just just using salt and themeat fresh meat over fire is is
like a delicacy for people there, and then, uh, you'd go, you'd
eat it with this bread, thisugali, uh, but the other
accompaniment that uh goes wellwith it is something that's
(37:58):
similar to salsa, right, whichis just tomatoes, onions,
cilantro in them, uh, chilipeppers and sometimes a little
bit of lemon, and there are somany places you go to that would
serve you that.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Oh, I'll go there my kind of meal.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Do you find in where you live now there's any good
African food?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Where I live now?
No, not really.
So we tend to visit each othera lot.
Okay, so we make it at our ownhomes.
Yeah, so every other weekendthere's an event somewhere at
some African person's house, anevent somewhere at some African
(38:51):
person's house, and we, some ofus, we know each other and some
of us are very good at makingsome of these foods, and so,
yeah, so that's how we make surewe still get African food
around absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And what is there a traditional dessert or favorite
dessert or fruits that peoplealso enjoy?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, I would say it's traditional and the fruits
that we enjoy are just verysimilar, so we do fruit salads.
That's very similar or normalto what we see here, so nothing
really is out of the ordinarythere.
Those are very similar.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
And what about a dessert Does someone like if
it's a special occasion orsomeone's birthday, or they do.
I don't know if they do abirthday cake like they do here.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
I would call them like donuts.
If you want sweet, sweet donuts, uh-huh.
So there's one that's calledMandazi Mandazi, like
M-A-N-D-A-Z-I, mandazi, orMahamri, m-a-h-a-m-r-i.
(40:01):
These are primarily wheat-baseddeep fried, have sugar in them,
very sweet they look like thenew orleans.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
They look like the.
What is that in the new?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
oh, we just had those .
Um, we just had those toogoodness, I'm gonna remember I
know what is that french name,right, okay, I'll find it right
now, yeah but I also know whatyou're referring to.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
It's that French name , right?
Okay, I'll find it right now.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, but I also know what you are referring to.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
The New Orleans ones they have a lot of sugar in them
Right, yeah, we are gettingclose to our hour already.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
We have some rapid fire questions coming up.
I don't think I said those toyou, vignette.
Yes, vignette, we have somerapid fire questions coming up.
I don't think I said those toyou.
Yeah, I did say that, vignette.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Vignette.
Yeah, so, carol, before we getthere, just one thing I want to
share with you guys.
Yeah, that's very unique aboutKenya in terms of anybody going
there, where Kenya has gotten toright now.
Very few people use cash therenowadays, yet, at the same time,
not many people have bankaccounts, so you could ask
(41:12):
yourself, like, how does thateven work?
People don't have credit cards.
So there is this phenomenon.
It's a digital transaction ormobile money payments.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
It's called M-Pesa, M-P-E-S-A Okay.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
And so a lot of people, what I tell a lot of
people if you ever get therevery quickly, get a phone line
and the phone carrier would setyou up real quick and you can
load money onto your phone andwherever you go, any little
thing you buy at any store orshop or kiosk by this, on the
(41:55):
street or by the corner,anywhere, everybody accepts
m-pesa, if you only so think.
Think of it as venmo withoutthe bank accounts involved,
right?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
okay, yeah, yeah, I think I've heard this before.
Okay, and so if you go totransact money at the airport,
no one's going to take?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
it sounds like yeah, I mean still there are.
There are a few places thatwould accept cash, but
everywhere you go, you there'llbe that sign pay with M-Pesa,
right?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
okay, and you just, I'm assuming, do it on your
phone from your bank to M-Pesa,or is it like an app and you
just yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:37):
so it's an app, or even if you don't have an app,
you can.
There's, there's a manual wayof doing it through your phone,
but yes, you'd have to transfermoney from your bank to your
phone, or they have agents.
If you just have cash, you goto the agents and they are all
over.
(42:57):
You deposit the money with theagents and then they put it on
your phone.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, oh, wow, that's so interesting.
It's an amazing phenomenon.
How long has that been going on?
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Geez, it's been years now.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It looks like it's been around for a while.
Based on these pictures, I'mseeing yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
It's been around for a while but it has continued to
dominate.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
So maybe not so much before, but where we are right
now.
I think it's almost like lifewill be a little bit difficult
if you were not using it.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
In Kenya.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I wonder is that an African company that put that
together?
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yes, it's a Kenyan company, but they were in
partnership with Vodafone.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Vodafone okay.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Are they French?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes, I don't know, I'm in my head, I think British,
but I don't know, I reallydon't know.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
It could be, it could be, but it was primarily
Safaricom, but the largestnetwork provider over there, and
so, yeah, they rolled it out toso many other countries as well
, in Africa and even in Asia.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, Do you need an extra visa to go over there?
I know you're a citizen but, I,was curious in terms of, like,
if I wanted to go over thereokay, m-pasa, check, I'll get
that and it looks like Idefinitely have.
I was going to ask if there'sany other beaches or locations
that I should look at, becauseDayani Mount Kenya sounded
(44:36):
really neat, except I'm not sureif I can climb it.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Oh so quick, one Very high level.
If you were to go, you evenhave two, three, four, five days
, so I'd say you get there,absolutely, nairobi is a given.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
And then when you're in Nairobi, if you can do a
quick day trip to the Nairobipark.
If not, the most famous gamereserve is Masai Mara.
You've probably heard of MasaiMara.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
No, I haven't Masai.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Mara, m-a-s-a-i.
Masai Mara.
That's the most famous gamereserve next to South Africa,
right.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Two words Masai and then Mara, m-a-r-a National
Reserve in Kenya.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, okay, I found it.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Lots of animals.
If you are able to go there, Ithink between July and September
, you might be able to witnessthe great migration of the
wildebeests.
If you've ever heard of that,these are, you know, these will
be.
I think it's like maybe amillion wildebeests that migrate
(45:52):
from from Tanzania into Kenyaduring that time.
It's an amazing.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
It's something to behold if you see it yeah, wow,
and is that the only time ithappens?
July through September?
Speaker 3 (46:05):
yeah, between July and September thereabouts yes, I
just think Jumanji I'm seeing alot of pictures and I, yeah,
it's impressive.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
It has to be this, because there's such a massive
amount.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yes, oh my goodness, so then Masai Mara, and then,
yes, and then you want to go toMombasa.
Now, mombasa, yeah, there, uh.
So think about Mombasa as anepicenter.
Then you can either go to thesouthern part of Mombasa or the
northern part of Mombasa.
So the southern part of Mombasa, that's where Diani is.
(46:41):
Those are more calm, beautifulbeaches that are not overcrowded
.
The hotels there are justamazing.
And then Mombasa, the NorthBeach side.
There's a lot more activitythere because a lot of people
(47:05):
clubs, the hotels there arestill pretty good, but crowded
right the beach there is alsovery crowded.
And then, if you go now all theway North to Lamu and Malindi,
which are some other towns orcities up north, again there's a
lot more serenity in thoseareas.
(47:26):
So Lamu, for example, gives you, if you've ever been to Greece,
like Santorini.
The architecture there isSantorini-like, say Italy, or
even some of the French citiesI've seen.
So it gives you a completelydifferent vibe, like, oh, I
think I'm in a different placecompletely.
(47:47):
Yeah, just amazing too.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
That was in the Gianni area.
No, this is up north Way, wayup north.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
okay, way up north yeah, okay, yeah, it's beautiful
.
There's another picture?
Well, there's.
There's a picture with camelsgoing across the beach oh yeah,
so that's usually.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
It's, uh, one of the attractions there.
If you know, they always havecamels around there for kids or
even adults.
If you ever want to ride acamel, um, it's, it's something
that, uh, is very common theregot it, and I see melindi in
here too.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
It says uh wamu to melindi, some uh youtube video,
or something like that is.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Is that Lama more expensive to stay than Nairobi?
No, no.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Nairobi is a lot more expensive.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, oh, that's fantastic.
Thanks for sharing Any otherplace that you'd recommend to go
to and check out.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yeah, one more place is called this is on the western
part of the country, at leastto go see Lake Victoria a little
bit at this area it's calledRusinga Island, r-u-s-i-n-g-a.
Rusinga Island, on the westernpart of the country beautiful,
(49:10):
amazing views by the lake.
I like water.
I'm not.
I'm not a swimmer, but I lovebeing close to water, so I tend
to visit a lot of these coastalplaces.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
No wonder we get along Vincent.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
There you go, same.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
I feel the same.
That's beautiful as well.
It's just like it looks.
They're not tropical beaches,but it looks really beautiful as
well.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
It is.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
It's a hidden gem of Kenya.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
It's one of them.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Wonderful In terms of gettingaround.
Is it pretty easy?
Do people rent cars?
Do you do public transportation?
Do you have to fly betweenKenya or is it drivable?
How does that feel or look?
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Oh yeah, I would say almost all of the above right.
So there are a lot of privatecompanies that you can hire
vehicles from for self-drive.
If you just want to drive,there is a public transportation
.
You have long distance busesthat you can use.
And, yes, there are localflights, depending on where you
are going, obviously Nairobi,mombasa.
(50:27):
There are many flights a daybetween Nairobi and Mombasa,
rusinga side.
There is also flights to theclosest city there, which is
Kisumu.
There are flights to Malindi aswell from Nairobi, so most of
the flights would be Nairobi toand back, but no flights between
(50:50):
those different places bythemselves, so it's almost like
you need to go through Nairobiall the time.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
It's like Costa Rica San Jose is their capital and it
would just go out that way andI was there.
So yeah, okay, yeah, it soundssimilar.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Okay, so our rapid fire questions.
If you could only have one mealwhile you're there, what?
What would you have?
I?
Speaker 3 (51:14):
would nyamachoma, nyamachoma, that's the, the
barbecue or the grilled goatmeat goat meat.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
I've never had goat meat before.
How popular is goat meat, it's.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
It's the most popular over there oh, really okay the
most popular and there areplaces where you go in and it's
purely just for goat meat andyou go and you select a live
goat and I know oh my goodness,very fresh.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
It says uh, nama choma, n-y-a-m-a, and then
another word c-h-o-m-a.
That's what it looks like.
Um, and it looks like theybarbecue it a lot.
It looks very flavorful.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
It is, it is, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
And what's a typical breakfast when?
You have there.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Breakfast is very similar to the English type of
breakfast, so it could just betea and bread, and then people
may add eggs or sausages orbacon, but it's usually
primarily tea bread.
Now there are other traditionalthings that, do you know,
(52:28):
different communities prepareLike.
One of them is called GidheriGidheri G-I-T-H-E-R-I and it's
just a mixture of corn beans,sometimes a little bit of
potatoes in it, and it could befried or not, fried right.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
It looks like beans and corn and looks like there's
cilantro on top of here.
Someone has avocado in it, butit looks like there's cilantro
on top of here.
Someone has avocado in it, butit looks like a burrito.
It almost like.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Well, it's like the insides of it, like it almost
looks like there's there's nosalsa in it, but it looks really
so those are things that peopleadd, but traditionally to just
corn and beans and a little bitof potatoes right, and then and
then, apart from that, therecould be, you know, cassavas or
(53:21):
or sweet potatoes right that youhave with tea, or even porridge
.
So it's either tea or porridgewith those accompaniments that
looks good.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I would like that that sounds very healthy.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, all right, is there any any special music?
That's traditional, wow.
There are so many, so manytribes.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Yes, so there is again, depending on the tribe,
right.
So we have a diverse range ofmusic, right, depending on the
tribe.
So for my tribe, a verytraditional one that I really
like, is it's called nyatiti.
(54:04):
Nyatiti spelled n-y-a-t-i-t-i,nyatiti, and it's just one
instrument, eight.
So the translation of how wecall it is just eight strings,
right.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
It looks like it's a part guitar and harp.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
And the way they play it.
They have to stick it on theground, like you step on it on
the ground and this guy will beleaning over and play it, and
then they just sing and it'samazing.
Uh, so that's one.
Uh, there's another one calledoh hang lies.
O h a n g l a.
(54:48):
O h a n g l a oh drums yeah,it's drums, it's um, it's.
It's amazing.
But in general, the music world, now we have the modern music.
It's across the board.
There is there's the, the eastafrican region.
(55:09):
There's a style that's calledbongo music, b-o-n-g-o.
That's more modern and you goto clubs you'll hear it a lot in
clubs.
It's across all cultures thereand now some of those musicians,
they even have collaborationswith some of the world-renowned
(55:32):
musicians on this end.
And then there's Afrobeats,right, and so those are, you
know, transcends acrossdifferent countries in Africa,
both West East and South Africa.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Awesome, alrighty, and then just two more.
What is the money called, Imean?
Or you don't really have tobother.
We're just going to do the MPUZright.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah, it's the shilling.
The shilling s h I l l I n g,the kenyan shilling and the
shilling.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Okay, and is that um?
Does each different country inafrica have their own money?
Speaker 3 (56:09):
yeah, different countries have their own money.
Okay, but you'd find that, uh,the east african countries, they
all call them shillings.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Like.
Speaker 3 (56:18):
Uganda shilling, Kenyan shilling, Tanzanian
shilling.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Oh, okay, I've never heard that Cool.
And then the closest place youcan surf is there, like ocean
surfing.
It looks like you're kind of onthe calmer part.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Yeah, we are more on the calmer side.
Yeah, we are.
We are more on the calmer side.
Uh, so can you.
I do see you know surfers atthe coast because they just love
doing that.
There'll be sometimes there'ssome waves, but they're baby
waves, right?
Yeah, not that huge with anywind surfing wind surfing a
little, not so much though okaybut a little but is it at that
(56:55):
the Diani Beach?
Okay, yeah, that would be DianiBeach.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Nice, you're good, all right.
Well, that's it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Oh my gosh.
Thank you so much, vincent.
That was so fun.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Yeah, I learned a lot .
Thank you guys so much.
I love what you're doing.
I'm looking forward tolistening to more of these.
I did listen to the other onesthat you guys have done so
amazing and congratulations.
You guys keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Oh, thank you so much , we have a lot of fun and then
hopefully one day I'll betraveling and visiting all these
places.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Right Live on site.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, there we go.
That'll even be better, right,wonderful, well, thank you so
much, vincent.
Have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
You too Bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
All right, bye, bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the podcast, canyou please take a second and do
a quick follow of the show andrate us in your podcast app, and
, if you have a minute, we wouldreally appreciate a review.
Following and rating is thebest way to support us.
If you're on Instagram, let'sconnect.
We're at where next podcast,thanks again.
(58:08):
Thank you.
Hi, welcome to our podcast when Next Travel with
Kristen and Carol.
I am Kristen.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
And I am.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Carol and we're two long-term friends with a passion
for travel and adventure.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Each episode, we interview people around the
globe to help us decide where togo next.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome to when Next, and I'm so excited to dive into
Nairobi and learn more aboutyour home country.
Now were you there recently?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
This is a pleasure to talk to you, christine and
Carol.
Yes, I was in Nairobi, in Kenyain general, not too long ago,
so I just came back.
So I was there from beginningof March through the end of
April, so about two months.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh wonderful, so you have all your family is there.
Are you the only one out here?
Oh wonderful, so you have allyour family is there.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Are you the only one out here?
No, so we are sort of split.
I have seven siblings five boys, three girls.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Oh, so yeah, eight total.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Eight total.
Yes, so I've got two brothershere, and then the rest of my
siblings are back in Kenya, andthen I've got my mom over here
as well.
But yes, I'm originally fromKenya.
That's where I was born, raised, went to school, grew up there,
started my professional careerthere before I moved to the US
(01:40):
about 20 years ago.
Wow, what brought you to the US?
My work brought me to the US.
I got the opportunity to comefor what was called a global
development program by my farm.
I used to work for DeloitteTouche, which is a public
(02:02):
accounting firm, and so theynominated me to come out here
for just 18 months.
But then I came to the Bay Area, san Francisco, fell in love
with the place and I never wentback.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
That's fantastic.
So do you have any family here?
Siblings that are here?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, I have two brothers here, I have a nephew
here and I have my mom is hereas well.
I am not married.
I have my long term girlfriend,who is also Kenyan.
We've been together a long time.
We have no kids, yeah, and sothat's the family.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
That's wonderful.
Well, I would love to hear also, like in terms of growing up
there and what it was like.
And I was curious school is itlike I know here elementary
school, middle school, highschool and then college?
How is it?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Excellent.
I think over the years theeducation system has changed a
little bit, but just to give youan overview.
So Nairobi is the capital cityof Kenya and that's in the East
Africa, the eastern part ofAfrica.
It's bordered by Uganda ifyou've heard of Uganda, ethiopia
(03:19):
, south Sudan, somalia andTanzania and then on the
southeastern part of the countryis the Indian Ocean, so we have
a coastal border as well, andKenya has so many different
tribes I think we have 41distinct tribes, so all those
(03:43):
are different languages.
I'm from a tribe called LuoL-U-O, which I believe is the
fourth largest tribe currentlyin Kenya.
So growing up, I was born andraised on the western part of
the country, right by the shoresof Lake Victoria.
(04:04):
I believe Lake Victoria iseither the largest or the second
largest freshwater lake in theworld.
So my tribe, the Luo, aregenerally known to be fishermen.
I did not grow up fishing,though, but we used to go to the
lake a lot.
So the equivalent of elementaryschool when I went to school, I
(04:30):
think, is similar to going tograde one through eight and then
, after grade eight, you go toso and we would call it primary
school.
That was primary school wasfrom standard one up to standard
eight, right, and then afterthat you go to high school and
then you go to the university oryou go to college yeah, whether
(04:53):
it's a tertiary college foryour diploma, or university, to
get your bachelor's degree.
Interestingly enough, the earlyyears of primary school I think
it was from grade one to threemost of the education there was
done in your tribe's mothertongue.
(05:14):
It was very segregated backthen, like if you went to a
school that was in your ruralarea.
The early years you are taughtin your mother tongue, and then
English was then the language ofeducation.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, do most people speak English.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yes, most people.
If you've gone to school,you'll likely be speaking
English.
Oh wow, although we have anational language that most
people speak across the country.
It's called Kiswahili.
So almost everybody knowsKiswahili, but English, yes, if
(05:53):
you go to school, that's thelanguage that's used to teach
people.
But then there are also peoplewho, if you don't go to school,
but you're still able to pick itup, just you know talking to
people and watching TV,listening to news.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Growing up.
I'm just looking at picturesbecause you were in the main
city.
I've got my computer here aswell.
It's funny.
It's got a picture of buildingsand then a giraffe going
through the green.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
What's interesting about Nairobi?
I grew up on the western part,so it's a city called Kisumu,
but then in my college I went toNairobi, so pretty much my
university was in Nairobi.
Then I started working inDeloitte over there, so most of
my adult life was in Nairobi.
What's interesting with Nairobi?
I think it's the only city, orone of the few, that has
(06:49):
national park, a game reserve,pretty close to it.
So if you're somebody who isinto nature or game reserves or
you love to see animals and youtravel to Kenya and you're in
Nairobi, then it's a very easyshort day trip to just go to the
Nairobi National Park andyou'll be able to see all the
(07:13):
animals, the famous animals thatpeople know.
We should think about the bigfive.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So, Vincent, I remember we talked to someone
from I can't remember where inAfrica, but they said there's
only certain countries where youcan actually see the apes.
Is it Kenya?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Kenya?
No.
So you can see, kenya hasmonkeys and small apes, if you
think about the big apes, thegorillas, and that would be
another country called Congo,the Democratic Republic of Congo
even.
Uganda.
That's where then you'd see themassive, huge apes.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Okay, got it Okay great.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And you said something about the big five.
If you wanted to go see the bigfive, what are those five?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So the big five?
That were those?
What are those five?
So the big five, uh, thatpeople normally tend to want to
see.
So you have the elephant,leopards, um lions, uh, the
rhinos and the buffaloes.
So it's a buffalo, rh, rhino,leopard, lion, elephant.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
No giraffes, no giraffes.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
So that's interesting because you know, think about
it, you know it's really big,but the reason I think they
coined that term, the big five,I think these were the five
animals that were most poached,right, illegally hunted down,
and at some point they were onthe verge of extinction, or
(08:53):
maybe not, but they are theprotected animals.
Giraffes not so much, andthat's why, I think they use the
term the big five in terms ofaffinity to poachers right.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
So what did you do?
What kind of things did you dogrowing up and your traditions,
sports that you may have done asa kid, or things that were fond
memories of good memoriesgrowing up?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Wow, there is a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I figured.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I don't even know if I asked people that, but you
grew up there, so I'd love tohear how that was growing up.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, I think what I loved most growing up was is
that we were just free as kids.
Yeah, you know we lived.
There was no fear of being outthere.
You know we lived, there was nofear of being out there.
And so we grew up in bigfamilies, like the African
families sometimes were very big.
An interesting thing for you toknow my paternal grandfather,
(09:57):
for example, had 18 wives rightoh, wow, All at once right.
Like kind of All at once, right, like kind of all at once, and
traditionally people tended tolive in the same homesteads.
So him, because of the 18 wives,he had three different
homesteads.
The homestead I grew up in Ihad three grandmothers from my
(10:21):
paternal grandfather, threegrandmothers from my paternal
grandfather, and each of thosehouseholds had, you know, I
would say, a minimum of fivekids.
So from each of them I wouldhave step uncles and then you
have many different cousins, sogrowing up, it used to be a
really big family and you couldgo to any of your stepmother's
(10:47):
houses and you are all kids ofthe same people.
You could eat there.
There was never like, oh, thisis our house, that's so-and-so's
house, so it was all one bigcommunity.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Wow, and does that still happen today?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
No, Okay, wow, and does that still happen today?
No, okay, I think other peoplestill try to do it, but I think
back then I think there was landand people could do farming for
subsistence, and there was theclimate and weather patterns
also allowed for people to farma lot, and weather patterns also
(11:26):
allowed for people to farm alot.
But nowadays, with globalwarming, things have changed.
Because of the populationgrowth, land is minimal now, and
so people are becoming, arehaving smaller and smaller
families.
I don't have kids myself.
My dad only had one wife right,even though his dad had 18
wives, so it's very differentnow and people are more
(11:51):
conscious about what's happeningin the rest of the world.
There is family planning.
A lot of people live in thecities and are more into the
Western ways of doing things,which is very different I see
Speaker 1 (12:06):
absolutely so did you see that in your girl
upbringing this, this big, hugechange right through how things
were as a kid to um and and Idon't know how, how was that um
or you know, I guess, with your?
It was, that was yourgrandfather, so it was just it
was your dad who just had onewife and then, but you've got
(12:28):
this wonderful huge family rightyeah, it's, it's, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean, um, you look back there the the things that I
loved about having such bigfamilies.
But there are also things thatgrowing up then I didn't, I came
not to like right, like when Igot into the university and when
(12:54):
I joined, the first year wassort of government sponsored
free, and then from the secondyear we had to pay fees and so
on.
That's when it started dawningon me that you know we didn't
have enough money for me to goto college.
And so you, you start scrap,you know, crapping through
different resources to just getthrough your education.
(13:17):
And then you compare yourselfwith families that you know were
coming with small families,right, two, three in their
family.
They didn't struggle so much.
And then when I started working, then I we used to use this
terminology of people startinglife with negative opening
(13:40):
balances versus positive openingbalances right yeah, so you
start working, maybe if you areamongst the eldest in your
family, that's talking from atrue accountant there, by the
way.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I just wanted to point that out.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Just pop that in there Exactly so.
You start off and you realizethat your younger siblings
become your responsibility, andit was expected in the family
it's not really part of.
You know it's not your kid oryou know, but you have to pay
school fees for them or makesure they're they are doing okay
(14:16):
, and your parents would look upto you to to help out.
So those are some of the thedisadvantages that I saw that I
didn't like but I still likedthe idea of having so many
different people you could leanon, you could reach out to, you
could hang out with, and so wealways look forward to holidays,
(14:40):
right, like even today.
I tend to go back almost everyDecember because we tend to
always go to an uncle's placeright, and an uncle would invite
everybody and I meet relativesthat I've never met before, just
given how big we were, and it'scool.
(15:01):
It's cool that we do that andit's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely so.
What is a holiday Not Christmas?
Is it Kwanzaa?
What do you guys celebrate atChristmas time?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Oh yeah, so 70% are Catholics and then the others
are, you know, Protestant orother Christian religions, and
then we have, I think, about 10%of the country is Muslim.
I don't know if you guys arereligious, but if you are like
Catholic, Christmas is hugeright.
(15:50):
So people would look forward toChristmas as well as the Easter
weekend, right Good Friday andEaster Monday.
That weekend is huge.
So the country recognizes thoseperiods as national holidays,
in addition to just other, youknow more political holidays
(16:11):
that the country has.
But, Christmas is huge and theEaster weekend is huge.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So I just have to I guess I don't know geek out.
I love Christmas as well.
I guess I love to celebratethose holidays.
So Christmas trees, and is it?
What is the tradition like that?
It's funny because I know whatAustralia, you know it's flipped
, so it's kind of their winterand I didn't or what.
(16:39):
It's their summer, not theirwinter, whereas here it's the
winter and I don't know where inthe world if that's the similar
Kenya too.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
That's.
That's summer for Kenya, right,it's uh, it's hot around that
time.
That's when we get actuallymost stories from Europe and
even, you know, um, the US andso on, because it's warm out
there, yeah, so, even thoughChristmas is big, but the
concept of Christmas trees,that's new to us now.
(17:09):
So families nowadays, peoplelive in the cities and so on,
now they they have that conceptof Christmas trees, largely
because kids watch what'shappening in the western world.
But we didn't have, we't growup with Christmas trees.
But what would happen is thatwas a time, for it was almost
(17:32):
like Thanksgiving here in the US, right, so everybody goes back
home around that time just to bearound family.
On Christmas Eve, you'd spendalmost the entire night in
church, at least up to untilmidnight, and then go home and
then the following day, onChristmas day, again go to
(17:54):
church, come back, then it'sjust feasting, right, there
wasn't even the concept of giftgiving either, right, but it was
just lots of food, seeing lotsof relatives that you don't get
to see all the time, and peoplejust being together, and that's
how people used to celebrate andthat's the time also.
(18:18):
You would try and, uh, orfamilies would try, and you know
, cook some of the best foodsthat you don't cook all the time
, or things that you've alwaysdesired to have.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay, so we should go to that.
What are some popular foodsthere?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
People often ask me what's the Kenyan food?
And I struggle with that alittle bit, because all the
different, the different tribesin Kenya tend to make the same
food but make it differently,right.
So, like, on the meat side,beef, goat meat chicken are huge
(18:57):
, right.
And then fish is also huge, andprimarily one particular type
of fish, and that's tilapia.
So the general seafood, if youthink about, you know, either
crabs or shrimp, or those aresort of confined to the coastal
(19:18):
part of the country, right?
So the coastal part of Mombasa,which is so the coastal part of
Mombasa, which is a very, veryfamous tourist destination as
well.
Some of the best beaches in theworld is found in Mombasa.
Yeah, so Mombasa, m-o-m-b-a-s-a.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So if you want to look up in that region Deani
D-E-I-i.
I see it dianii like diane, butwith an I at the end instead of
an e yes, yes, and I see a ladyon a camel and the picture.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Wow, that's gorgeous if you if you are ever in kenya,
like a lot of people who cometo Kenya.
Obviously most people fly intoNairobi, spend some time in
Nairobi, go for some of the gamedrives, but I would say 90% of
people tend to go to the coastas well.
There are a few towns up northalong the coast as well.
(20:42):
Apart from Mombasa, there'sLamu and there's Malindi up
north along the coast as well.
Apart from Mombasa, there'sLamu.
There is and there's Malindi upnorth as well.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
That's equally beautiful and what's the best
time of year to go, since it'sprobably pretty hot yeah, the
best time to go, honestly I'dsay it's like the September
October time.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So September, october , november timeframe, or even
February, no, march, april, june, july is also good.
June, july, august isrelatively cool right.
So, Nairobi gets a little cold,but still not cold compared to
(21:23):
here in winter, and so Mombasais very hot.
So the May, june, july, augustit cools down just a little bit,
but not that much.
Okay yeah, is Nairobi elevateda little bit.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Is there mountains there?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Nairobi.
Yeah, nairobi is.
I think it's about six feetabove sea level, 6,000 feet
above sea level.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh, okay, so it is quite a bit All right.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
So it's a bit elevated.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And it has, I'm assuming mountain regions as
well.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yes, oh yeah, there are lots of hills and mountains
in Kenya.
Mount Kenya, for example, is,if you are a mountain climber
you know it's one of the best togo to, very challenging, and
it's not far from MountKilimanjaro as well.
(22:22):
On the Tanzania side, rightManjaro as well on the Tanzania
side right, but so MountKilimanjaro is easier to climb
than Mount Kenya.
Mount Kilimanjaro is higherthan Mount Kenya, but Mount
Kenya is more steeper thanKilimanjaro.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Wow more difficult.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
More difficult.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
To do yes.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
So you have Mount Kenya and then the regions
around Mount Kenya.
They are definitely they'redefinitely in the highlands a
lot colder in those areas.
Then, as you come down toNairobi, still elevation is
still high, but the temperatureis a lot more moderate, actually
throughout the year.
So it's really beautiful inNairobi and then as you move
(23:07):
down to the coast, then it's hot.
Then the northern part of thecountry is also very hot.
The northern part of thecountry, half of the country on
the northern side, is semi-aridand arid.
It's just like a desert right.
So it's very hot up there.
So most people live in thesouthern half of the country
(23:31):
it's a, it's a.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Even looking at the map, it's brown on the top and
then it's got green around thethe coastline and over here that
kind of looks like it goesbrown to the bottom exactly I
can imagine and it and it'sinteresting because, looking at
the map, all the cities look inthe green spots.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yes, Makes sense, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Human beings want to live in areas that's a little
bit more habitable, right.
Absolutely, but we can alwaysreclaim even the dry areas to
see what places like Dubai havedone right.
So it's not impossible to makethose other places habitable as
well.
We just haven't done it yet.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Football, I'm assuming, is very big, aka
soccer here in the US.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Correct.
So I was going to ask you whichfootball are you referring to,
but you quickly said soccer.
Yes, yeah, so soccer is huge inKenya, even though Kenya has
never done very well at theinternational level.
But people there love, loveplaying and watching soccer in
(24:44):
general, so the country tends tofollow the English Premier
League a lot and people can evenhave fights in watching some of
those competitions on TV inbars.
Right, because some people aresupporting some teams, others
(25:06):
are supporting others and youknow arguments do come up, but
yes, soccer is super huge.
Personally, growing up, Iplayed just a little bit of
soccer, but I was largely intofield hockey and then rugby oh,
rugby.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I I'm assuming rugby is pretty big.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Rugby is big, rugby is very big there.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, and they don't have, like baseball and football
, us football or things likethat.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
No, no.
The closest spot that you knowis very popular here in the US
is basketball.
It's very popular here in theUS is basketball, so basketball
is played.
There are a lot of kids who dothat, and even at national level
we have a basketball league,but it's not that popular.
The other one that's verypopular is that's close to
(26:02):
baseball, but it's not.
That's cricket.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh, okay, and cricket , yes, okay, that makes lots of
english influence?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
it sounds like yeah both english and indian
influence.
Oh, okay, so.
So the country, um, I think, uh, kenya has the second highest
population of indians.
Africa I think South Africa hasthe most number of Indians and
(26:30):
then Kenya the second most inAfrica.
Where I grew up, the city Iwent to high school in which is
in the western part of Kenya,was primarily dominated by the
Indians, so my high school wasprimarily Indian.
In fact, I think Blacks were aminority in that school.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, even the local leaders of the city were Indians
.
Yeah, so there's a huge Indianinfluence in Kenya.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Wow, are they that close?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I'm trying to look out here to look the way they
came to be.
Kenya was colonized by theBritish, and so the British, in
looking to find ways oftransporting, you know, whatever
they were mining inland all theway to the coast to put them on
ships, they were building thishuge railway line.
(27:33):
That time they had alreadycolonized India, so they brought
a lot of Indians to build therailway.
So once the railway was done,most of the Indians did not go
back, they just stayed in thecountry, and that's how that
population started.
Got it and then, over the years,they started businesses and
(27:54):
they've continued to.
Yeah, people have continued tocome in.
But what I'm seeing now inNairobi, for example, Nairobi
itself has become verycosmopolitan.
Right example, Nairobi itselfhas become very cosmopolitan.
Right, there are parts ofNairobi you could be in and
wonder if you are in Kenya, evenLike there's a section of
(28:15):
Nairobi called Westlands.
Westlands is that there's somany expatriates that live there
.
We now have so manyinternational companies that
have offices there, companieslike Microsoft, IBM, Apple.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So what's like the cost of living?
If someone like say, wanted tonot expat, but you know, go
spend some time there and workwhile we're there, how
affordable is it?
You live in the Bay Area, I'massuming it's less expensive
than that.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It's definitely way.
The cost of living there is way, way less compared to, you know
, the US or even the Bay Areahere.
The one thing that is expensiveis accommodation is expensive
oh, it is okay especially if youwant to.
If you want to, you know, livein in similar, you know
(29:13):
apartments or standards for theus, like in westlands.
If you got a one-bedroom airbnbyou'd probably pay close to
maybe a thousand dollars, athousand two hundred dollars a
month okay, okay but on a dailybasis I think you could still
(29:36):
get a decent place, a onebedroom at, say you know, 40, 35
dollars a night, 35 a night.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
okay, got it.
Yeah, I'm looking at thepictures and it's very nice.
I mean all of the buildings,the shopping, all of the.
I mean it looks like it's verythe pictures at least I'm seeing
here very clean and nice andmodern.
So a lot of really neatarchitecture.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
It's very modern, so it's only accommodation that is
high up there.
Everything else the food isvery cheap.
Transportation If you requestedfor Uber, there are also other
competitors of Uber that aremore local.
There are also othercompetitors of Uber that are
(30:26):
more local.
It's like being in New YorkCity, like it's.
You better request Uber whenyou're ready.
Right, it's like two minutes,it's right there and within
(30:52):
Nairobi you are.
There's hardly anywhere you aregoing to go that you'll pay.
I would more than ten dollars,right, like, like it's.
It's a dollar, two dollars worthof.
You know um uber rides almostanywhere you go, wow, so which
is extremely cheap, yeah, andthen the foods.
I think even if you go to someof the high-end places, fine
dining, if you spend like 30bucks on your food, then that's
(31:15):
really really good food, right?
Yeah, okay, you'd probablyspend $10, $15 tops as one
person at even some of thesehigh-end dining places.
There are also a lot of, like,local restaurants that are
decent, that just have localfood and so on.
(31:38):
That's fresh, that you knowyou'll be paying $1, $2 for the
food.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Oh, okay, for lunch or something.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What's a traditional meal so?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
it's very the food, oh, okay, okay, lunch or
something.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
What's a traditional?
So it's very, very, veryaffordable.
Yeah, exactly what wouldsomeone?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
get for a dollar, two dollars.
What type of meal would thatlook like?
So, one of the type this typeof foods in Kenya across the
board, there is.
I would say I would call it abread.
Really it's a cornmeal bread,right, and it's used as the
(32:17):
table food that accompanieseverything else.
So think of it as rice, right,and then you could have then
beef stew or beef fry, orchicken stew with some
vegetables, and so on.
So this cornmeal, it's, um, theway it's cooked is very simple.
(32:37):
You boil water and then you put, you know, corn flour in it and
there's a way that you mix ituntil you get the right
consistency that you want, andthen now and then it's, it's,
and most people just eat itusing hands.
So if you have that with umbeef stew and and vegetables and
(32:58):
fried vegetables yeah, could belike fried collard greens,
right?
Um, it could be, you know,fried Swiss chard or spinach,
right?
Yeah, that would probably bejust a dollar and a half.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So when you're saying , eat it with your hands, is it
like a like a dough, is it likea soup or is it like it's more
like a dough, right?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
So you, you, you grab it with your hands and then
maybe do just a little bit ofkneading with your hand and then
use it to scoop the the saucefrom your plate and the
vegetables and mix it that waywith some meat and then, yeah,
and then put it in your mouth.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, I've been to like Ethiopian restaurants
before and they had like it wasalmost like a tortilla, but like
almost texture of like apancake, though I wonder if it's
similar.
And then it was a lot of thescooping you pile stuff on top
of each other.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
What's it called?
What's that bread type called?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, so in Kiswahili it's called ugali U-G-A-L-I.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
U-G-A-L-I Okay.
I figured, I'd get a picture ofit.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Oh yeah, it looks like.
Well, it poofed up like a yes,yeah, it's white and White.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
You can get brown too .
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Okay, yeah, from yellow corn.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, and you can get brown too.
Okay, yeah, from yellow corn.
Yeah, and you can get brown too.
The ethiopian uh cattle you'resaying is called ingera.
Okay, yeah, they make it out ofthis grain that I believe is
only found in ethiopia, eventhough a few countries nowadays
have it.
They must have smuggled it out,but it was trademarked for
Ethiopia, only called the.
(34:50):
The grain is called TEFFT-E-F-F okay yeah, I think one
of the healthy, the healthiestgrains in the world oh, really
okay, I think I remember.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, we talked to someone from Ethiopia once yeah,
it kind of sounds vaguelyfamiliar, someone here says chef
is terrific, it's a guy holdingit up, it kind of almost looks
like a quinoa or something likethat exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, I think it's the same family as quinoa okay,
yeah, that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
And then, um, it's funny when I have the ugali up
it says is you question?
People ask is ugali the same asfufu?
I don't know if that's a foodthat you guys eat, but it oh
yeah, so fufu is, they're verysimilar so fufu is more west
african, so it's um uh, nigeria,gh.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Cameroon.
Yeah, they call it fufu, butit's made similarly, it's just
the consistency is a littledifferent.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
It looks more like well, the picture.
It looks like it's saranwrapped, almost like eggs on I
don't know, kind of more shinyor something, but it could be
the saran wrap that I'm seeingon the picture.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, they look more like a biscuit and more looks
like I don't know, like a fixedbread.
Yeah, oh, interesting okay,gosh, it's so interesting how,
like every country, everycountry, but so many countries
like there's a staple that's sodifferent, but it's maybe
slightly.
You know, like in South Americathere was a lot of this foreign
(36:29):
maize, and then there'stortillas in Mexico, and then
there's rice all over Asia, andthen you guys have these various
different grains.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Looks like yeah, I love the name fufu yeah, so in
Kenya, like one of the thingsthat a lot of people would if
you visited families there.
Kenyans love grilling, right?
Is it barbecue or grilling?
I sometimes confuse the two,like I was told that it's
(37:00):
different Barbecue and grillingis different.
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, I never really thought about that.
I think they're kind of thesame in my mind.
But you know, yeah, youbarbecue and you use it on a
grill yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
so the kenyan style is, uh, whether it's goat meat
or just beef, so it's, it's justputting meat on of a fire,
right on in open space, outthere over fire, uh, even the
sometimes we don't even marinateit right, so it's just it's
(37:36):
just just using salt and themeat fresh meat over fire is is
like a delicacy for people there, and then, uh, you'd go, you'd
eat it with this bread, thisugali, uh, but the other
accompaniment that uh goes wellwith it is something that's
(37:58):
similar to salsa, right, whichis just tomatoes, onions,
cilantro in them, uh, chilipeppers and sometimes a little
bit of lemon, and there are somany places you go to that would
serve you that.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Oh, I'll go there my kind of meal.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Do you find in where you live now there's any good
African food?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Where I live now?
No, not really.
So we tend to visit each othera lot.
Okay, so we make it at our ownhomes.
Yeah, so every other weekendthere's an event somewhere at
some African person's house, anevent somewhere at some African
(38:51):
person's house, and we, some ofus, we know each other and some
of us are very good at makingsome of these foods, and so,
yeah, so that's how we make surewe still get African food
around absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And what is there a traditional dessert or favorite
dessert or fruits that peoplealso enjoy?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, I would say it's traditional and the fruits
that we enjoy are just verysimilar, so we do fruit salads.
That's very similar or normalto what we see here, so nothing
really is out of the ordinarythere.
Those are very similar.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
And what about a dessert Does someone like if
it's a special occasion orsomeone's birthday, or they do.
I don't know if they do abirthday cake like they do here.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
I would call them like donuts.
If you want sweet, sweet donuts, uh-huh.
So there's one that's calledMandazi Mandazi, like
M-A-N-D-A-Z-I, mandazi, orMahamri, m-a-h-a-m-r-i.
(40:01):
These are primarily wheat-baseddeep fried, have sugar in them,
very sweet they look like thenew orleans.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
They look like the.
What is that in the new?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
oh, we just had those .
Um, we just had those toogoodness, I'm gonna remember I
know what is that french name,right, okay, I'll find it right
now, yeah but I also know whatyou're referring to.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
It's that French name , right?
Okay, I'll find it right now.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, but I also know what you are referring to.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
The New Orleans ones they have a lot of sugar in them
Right, yeah, we are gettingclose to our hour already.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
We have some rapid fire questions coming up.
I don't think I said those toyou, vignette.
Yes, vignette, we have somerapid fire questions coming up.
I don't think I said those toyou.
Yeah, I did say that, vignette.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Vignette.
Yeah, so, carol, before we getthere, just one thing I want to
share with you guys.
Yeah, that's very unique aboutKenya in terms of anybody going
there, where Kenya has gotten toright now.
Very few people use cash therenowadays, yet, at the same time,
not many people have bankaccounts, so you could ask
(41:12):
yourself, like, how does thateven work?
People don't have credit cards.
So there is this phenomenon.
It's a digital transaction ormobile money payments.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
It's called M-Pesa, M-P-E-S-A Okay.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
And so a lot of people, what I tell a lot of
people if you ever get therevery quickly, get a phone line
and the phone carrier would setyou up real quick and you can
load money onto your phone andwherever you go, any little
thing you buy at any store orshop or kiosk by this, on the
(41:55):
street or by the corner,anywhere, everybody accepts
m-pesa, if you only so think.
Think of it as venmo withoutthe bank accounts involved,
right?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
okay, yeah, yeah, I think I've heard this before.
Okay, and so if you go totransact money at the airport,
no one's going to take?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
it sounds like yeah, I mean still there are.
There are a few places thatwould accept cash, but
everywhere you go, you there'llbe that sign pay with M-Pesa,
right?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
okay, and you just, I'm assuming, do it on your
phone from your bank to M-Pesa,or is it like an app and you
just yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:37):
so it's an app, or even if you don't have an app,
you can.
There's, there's a manual wayof doing it through your phone,
but yes, you'd have to transfermoney from your bank to your
phone, or they have agents.
If you just have cash, you goto the agents and they are all
over.
(42:57):
You deposit the money with theagents and then they put it on
your phone.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, oh, wow, that's so interesting.
It's an amazing phenomenon.
How long has that been going on?
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Geez, it's been years now.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It looks like it's been around for a while.
Based on these pictures, I'mseeing yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
It's been around for a while but it has continued to
dominate.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
So maybe not so much before, but where we are right
now.
I think it's almost like lifewill be a little bit difficult
if you were not using it.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
In Kenya.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I wonder is that an African company that put that
together?
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yes, it's a Kenyan company, but they were in
partnership with Vodafone.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Vodafone okay.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Are they French?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes, I don't know, I'm in my head, I think British,
but I don't know, I reallydon't know.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
It could be, it could be, but it was primarily
Safaricom, but the largestnetwork provider over there, and
so, yeah, they rolled it out toso many other countries as well
, in Africa and even in Asia.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, Do you need an extra visa to go over there?
I know you're a citizen but, I,was curious in terms of, like,
if I wanted to go over thereokay, m-pasa, check, I'll get
that and it looks like Idefinitely have.
I was going to ask if there'sany other beaches or locations
that I should look at, becauseDayani Mount Kenya sounded
(44:36):
really neat, except I'm not sureif I can climb it.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Oh so quick, one Very high level.
If you were to go, you evenhave two, three, four, five days
, so I'd say you get there,absolutely, nairobi is a given.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
And then when you're in Nairobi, if you can do a
quick day trip to the Nairobipark.
If not, the most famous gamereserve is Masai Mara.
You've probably heard of MasaiMara.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
No, I haven't Masai.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Mara, m-a-s-a-i.
Masai Mara.
That's the most famous gamereserve next to South Africa,
right.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Two words Masai and then Mara, m-a-r-a National
Reserve in Kenya.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, okay, I found it.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Lots of animals.
If you are able to go there, Ithink between July and September
, you might be able to witnessthe great migration of the
wildebeests.
If you've ever heard of that,these are, you know, these will
be.
I think it's like maybe amillion wildebeests that migrate
(45:52):
from from Tanzania into Kenyaduring that time.
It's an amazing.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
It's something to behold if you see it yeah, wow,
and is that the only time ithappens?
July through September?
Speaker 3 (46:05):
yeah, between July and September thereabouts yes, I
just think Jumanji I'm seeing alot of pictures and I, yeah,
it's impressive.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
It has to be this, because there's such a massive
amount.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yes, oh my goodness, so then Masai Mara, and then,
yes, and then you want to go toMombasa.
Now, mombasa, yeah, there, uh.
So think about Mombasa as anepicenter.
Then you can either go to thesouthern part of Mombasa or the
northern part of Mombasa.
So the southern part of Mombasa, that's where Diani is.
(46:41):
Those are more calm, beautifulbeaches that are not overcrowded
.
The hotels there are justamazing.
And then Mombasa, the NorthBeach side.
There's a lot more activitythere because a lot of people
(47:05):
clubs, the hotels there arestill pretty good, but crowded
right the beach there is alsovery crowded.
And then, if you go now all theway North to Lamu and Malindi,
which are some other towns orcities up north, again there's a
lot more serenity in thoseareas.
(47:26):
So Lamu, for example, gives you, if you've ever been to Greece,
like Santorini.
The architecture there isSantorini-like, say Italy, or
even some of the French citiesI've seen.
So it gives you a completelydifferent vibe, like, oh, I
think I'm in a different placecompletely.
(47:47):
Yeah, just amazing too.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
That was in the Gianni area.
No, this is up north Way, wayup north.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
okay, way up north yeah, okay, yeah, it's beautiful
.
There's another picture?
Well, there's.
There's a picture with camelsgoing across the beach oh yeah,
so that's usually.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
It's, uh, one of the attractions there.
If you know, they always havecamels around there for kids or
even adults.
If you ever want to ride acamel, um, it's, it's something
that, uh, is very common theregot it, and I see melindi in
here too.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
It says uh wamu to melindi, some uh youtube video,
or something like that is.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Is that Lama more expensive to stay than Nairobi?
No, no.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Nairobi is a lot more expensive.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, oh, that's fantastic.
Thanks for sharing Any otherplace that you'd recommend to go
to and check out.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yeah, one more place is called this is on the western
part of the country, at leastto go see Lake Victoria a little
bit at this area it's calledRusinga Island, r-u-s-i-n-g-a.
Rusinga Island, on the westernpart of the country beautiful,
(49:10):
amazing views by the lake.
I like water.
I'm not.
I'm not a swimmer, but I lovebeing close to water, so I tend
to visit a lot of these coastalplaces.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
No wonder we get along Vincent.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
There you go, same.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
I feel the same.
That's beautiful as well.
It's just like it looks.
They're not tropical beaches,but it looks really beautiful as
well.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
It is.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
It's a hidden gem of Kenya.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
It's one of them.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Wonderful In terms of gettingaround.
Is it pretty easy?
Do people rent cars?
Do you do public transportation?
Do you have to fly betweenKenya or is it drivable?
How does that feel or look?
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Oh yeah, I would say almost all of the above right.
So there are a lot of privatecompanies that you can hire
vehicles from for self-drive.
If you just want to drive,there is a public transportation
.
You have long distance busesthat you can use.
And, yes, there are localflights, depending on where you
are going, obviously Nairobi,mombasa.
(50:27):
There are many flights a daybetween Nairobi and Mombasa,
rusinga side.
There is also flights to theclosest city there, which is
Kisumu.
There are flights to Malindi aswell from Nairobi, so most of
the flights would be Nairobi toand back, but no flights between
(50:50):
those different places bythemselves, so it's almost like
you need to go through Nairobiall the time.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
It's like Costa Rica San Jose is their capital and it
would just go out that way andI was there.
So yeah, okay, yeah, it soundssimilar.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Okay, so our rapid fire questions.
If you could only have one mealwhile you're there, what?
What would you have?
I?
Speaker 3 (51:14):
would nyamachoma, nyamachoma, that's the, the
barbecue or the grilled goatmeat goat meat.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
I've never had goat meat before.
How popular is goat meat, it's.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
It's the most popular over there oh, really okay the
most popular and there areplaces where you go in and it's
purely just for goat meat andyou go and you select a live
goat and I know oh my goodness,very fresh.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
It says uh, nama choma, n-y-a-m-a, and then
another word c-h-o-m-a.
That's what it looks like.
Um, and it looks like theybarbecue it a lot.
It looks very flavorful.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
It is, it is, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
And what's a typical breakfast when?
You have there.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Breakfast is very similar to the English type of
breakfast, so it could just betea and bread, and then people
may add eggs or sausages orbacon, but it's usually
primarily tea bread.
Now there are other traditionalthings that, do you know,
(52:28):
different communities prepareLike.
One of them is called GidheriGidheri G-I-T-H-E-R-I and it's
just a mixture of corn beans,sometimes a little bit of
potatoes in it, and it could befried or not, fried right.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
It looks like beans and corn and looks like there's
cilantro on top of here.
Someone has avocado in it, butit looks like there's cilantro
on top of here.
Someone has avocado in it, butit looks like a burrito.
It almost like.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Well, it's like the insides of it, like it almost
looks like there's there's nosalsa in it, but it looks really
so those are things that peopleadd, but traditionally to just
corn and beans and a little bitof potatoes right, and then and
then, apart from that, therecould be, you know, cassavas or
(53:21):
or sweet potatoes right that youhave with tea, or even porridge
.
So it's either tea or porridgewith those accompaniments that
looks good.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I would like that that sounds very healthy.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, all right, is there any any special music?
That's traditional, wow.
There are so many, so manytribes.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Yes, so there is again, depending on the tribe,
right.
So we have a diverse range ofmusic, right, depending on the
tribe.
So for my tribe, a verytraditional one that I really
like, is it's called nyatiti.
(54:04):
Nyatiti spelled n-y-a-t-i-t-i,nyatiti, and it's just one
instrument, eight.
So the translation of how wecall it is just eight strings,
right.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
It looks like it's a part guitar and harp.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
And the way they play it.
They have to stick it on theground, like you step on it on
the ground and this guy will beleaning over and play it, and
then they just sing and it'samazing.
Uh, so that's one.
Uh, there's another one calledoh hang lies.
O h a n g l a.
(54:48):
O h a n g l a oh drums yeah,it's drums, it's um, it's.
It's amazing.
But in general, the music world, now we have the modern music.
It's across the board.
There is there's the, the eastafrican region.
(55:09):
There's a style that's calledbongo music, b-o-n-g-o.
That's more modern and you goto clubs you'll hear it a lot in
clubs.
It's across all cultures thereand now some of those musicians,
they even have collaborationswith some of the world-renowned
(55:32):
musicians on this end.
And then there's Afrobeats,right, and so those are, you
know, transcends acrossdifferent countries in Africa,
both West East and South Africa.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Awesome, alrighty, and then just two more.
What is the money called, Imean?
Or you don't really have tobother.
We're just going to do the MPUZright.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah, it's the shilling.
The shilling s h I l l I n g,the kenyan shilling and the
shilling.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Okay, and is that um?
Does each different country inafrica have their own money?
Speaker 3 (56:09):
yeah, different countries have their own money.
Okay, but you'd find that, uh,the east african countries, they
all call them shillings.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Like.
Speaker 3 (56:18):
Uganda shilling, Kenyan shilling, Tanzanian
shilling.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Oh, okay, I've never heard that Cool.
And then the closest place youcan surf is there, like ocean
surfing.
It looks like you're kind of onthe calmer part.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Yeah, we are more on the calmer side.
Yeah, we are.
We are more on the calmer side.
Uh, so can you.
I do see you know surfers atthe coast because they just love
doing that.
There'll be sometimes there'ssome waves, but they're baby
waves, right?
Yeah, not that huge with anywind surfing wind surfing a
little, not so much though okaybut a little but is it at that
(56:55):
the Diani Beach?
Okay, yeah, that would be DianiBeach.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Nice, you're good, all right.
Well, that's it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Oh my gosh.
Thank you so much, vincent.
That was so fun.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Yeah, I learned a lot .
Thank you guys so much.
I love what you're doing.
I'm looking forward tolistening to more of these.
I did listen to the other onesthat you guys have done so
amazing and congratulations.
You guys keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Oh, thank you so much , we have a lot of fun and then
hopefully one day I'll betraveling and visiting all these
places.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Right Live on site.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, there we go.
That'll even be better, right,wonderful, well, thank you so
much, vincent.
Have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
You too Bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
All right, bye, bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the podcast, canyou please take a second and do
a quick follow of the show andrate us in your podcast app, and
, if you have a minute, we wouldreally appreciate a review.
Following and rating is thebest way to support us.
If you're on Instagram, let'sconnect.
We're at where next podcast,thanks again.
(58:08):
Thank you.
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