Piemonte Italy with Barbara Boyle

Send us a text

In this episode, we explore Piemonte in Northern Italy with our guest, Barbara Boyle, author of Pinch Me. Situated at the foot of the Alps, this region blends Italian and French influences, creating a unique cultural experience. Barbara shares her insights on Piemonte’s rich history, stunning landscapes, and lesser-known travel gems. From rolling vineyards to the peaceful Italian lake district, this destination offers a perfect balance of tradition, natural beauty, and a relaxed way of life.

Piemonte is an ideal escape for those seeking simplicity, authenticity, and breathtaking scenery. Here, you can savor life’s small pleasures—enjoying local wines, tending a garden, or embracing the region’s warm hospitality. Whether you’re considering an extended stay or just want a glimpse into Italy’s understated elegance, this episode is your guide to experiencing the true essence of Piemonte.

You can find Barbara Boyle on Instagram at @barbaraannboyle10

and at her website. 

You can join her Substack here. 

You learn more about her book, Pinch Me: Waking Up in a 300-Year-Old Italian Farmhouse here. 

Map of Italy

Support the show

Please download, like, subscribe, share a review, and follow us on your favorite podcasts app and connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wherenextpodcast/

View all listening options: https://wherenextpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

Hosts
Carol Springer: https://www.instagram.com/carol.work.life
Kristen: https://www.instagram.com/team_wake/

If you can, please support the show or you can buy us a coffee.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, welcome to our podcast when Next Travel with
Kristen and Carol.
I am Kristen and I am Carol,and we're two long-term friends
with a passion for travel andadventure.
Each episode we interviewpeople around the globe to help
us decide where to go next.
So today we have Barbara Boyle,author of the book called Pinch

(00:37):
Me and a lover of travel.
She's going to tell us about, Iguess, northern, northern Italy
, country, mine country Italy,it's Piemonte.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Piemonte and the joy of it is a lot of people don't
really know much about it.
It's very undiscovered comparedto Tuscany, or I guess now,
sardinia and Sicily, thenobviously Rome, florence et
cetera.
So it's this tiny little nook,I think, the best part of Italy,
but it isn't as top of mind forAmericans, which is good.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Right, and what's so funny, barbara?
We just interviewed SteveHoffman.
He spent six months inLanguedoc and it sounds like the
language is.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Maybe some history is the same, because I saw, heard
that saw that name in thepiedmont area and the sagoy,
which is the south of france youcould be italy.
They don't, the french don'tlike talking about it, they
don't like to remember that.
But in fact there was this allkinds of you know when you'd win
and lose a war, you'd give eachother provence, or you know

(01:44):
piedmont and so for, and lose awar, you'd give each other
Provence, or you know Piemonte,and so for a while Italy was
Southern France, and then theylet it go back to France.
So people marry different queensand giving them different hunks
of land, that kind of thing.
But, yeah, piemontese thedialect where we are is almost

(02:06):
French and there's lots ofFrench accents and overtones, so
there's a lot of a lot of thepeople there don't speak really
Italian.
Even they speak Piemontese,which is a really weird sounding
language.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
So when I look at Piemonte, Italy, I've got a map
over here and I'm looking is itbrought up?
Piedmont?
And you're saying Piedmont, sois it?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Sorry, that's yeah.
You know I had never reallyheard it mentioned as.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Piedmont, but that's what we know it as, yeah, Like
on the East Bay by Berkeley.
I live in the East Bay.
I mean you live near Piedmont,yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I'm like, hey, we have a Piedmont.
It means, as you know, foot ofthe mountains, because we are
literally at the foot of all theAlps that go almost 360 around.
Where we live, right in thekneecap of Italy, and you know,
to your left are the Alps,maritime, the Maritime Alps, and
then you see Switzerland andGermany, and you know all that.

(02:55):
It's all just almost.
You can touch it, you know,it's an hour or two away.
So it's quite a different partof Italy with the Alp influence.
So Wow.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
And so if you go straight south, is that where
the Cinque Terre is, or is thatfarther east?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Cinque Terre is sort of both a little bit south and
over to the coast, to the east.
If you go straight south you'rein Savona, you know, and you
you kind of go east from thereand go to Genova or Genoa, as we
know it, genova they call it,and then that's all the Ligurian
Sea all along there and CinqueTerre is just past that.

(03:31):
So people know Cinque Terre,which is packed, just packed
with American tourists, so wedon't go there much, okay,
beautiful area.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
It's gorgeous, but you can hit the, the
Mediterranean.
How far does that take you then, from your place?

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh, it's an hour and a half to get to the ocean, yeah
, so are you?
living there.
Are you there At this verymoment?
I'm in.
You can see the Salesforcebuilding San Francisco.
Yeah, we bought a place in SanFrancisco mostly for the book
launch, because we're going tobe here for a good five, six
months and it's good to have.

(04:07):
We have family here and I haveroots here.
I grew up, pretty much grew uphere in the Bay Area.
Oh, we're right next, but sothe ocean.
You go straight down about anhour and a half and you have, oh

(04:28):
, all kinds of places that arebeach related, that are old,
famous Italian ones, like whereElizabeth Taylor and all the old
Hollywood fans would hang out,you know, all the queens of
Hollywood.
And then the other way would betowards Cinque Terre and trying
to picture it, genoa, cinqueTerre and out that way.
So it's all beachy.

(04:48):
There's Liguria andMediterranean are kind of
mingled.
Yeah, the Ligurian Sea is, youknow, they call it the Liguria
area because it's all.
The Mediterranean is prettygiant, but we're a little pocket
of it is up by us, so it's notfar.
I mean, the nice place aboutexactly where I am is we're
about an hour and a half fromthe alps and there's a peak

(05:09):
there that's 12 500 feet calledmonviso.
It's just gorgeous and it'sreally, as you get up there,
it's like you, you want to seeheidi coming down the hill with
her, with her goats.
You know, there's those oldtile roofs and stuff.
It's just beautiful.
And then, an hour and a halfsouth, you are at the old world.
Uh, who's that guy?

(05:30):
the fabulous mr winneth paltrowand those guys I can't remember
anyhow, it's definitely old,like 50s type world of hollywood
, like 50s type world ofHollywood where you vacation and
all that it's quite beautifulRiviera kind of world.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Wow, very, very cool is there surfing like.
Are there waves or is it prettycalm?

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I don't know about surfing.
I was just saying it'sbeautiful, it would be more calm
.
There's a lot of rock climbinggoing on.
There are kids come out and gorock climbing.
Yeah, certainly body surfing.
My husband's a big swimmer ofoceans, so we'll go down.
To where did we go?
We were in.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
There's Savannah.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, and we'll spend the night down there, and then
he just spends the day in theocean and comes back and forth
and I get my feet wet.
It's a pebbly beach.
It's not quite what you knowfrom California.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Got it.
And then I, when I'm looking ata Ligurian sea and it's showing
me, it looks like Cinque Terre.
Is that part of the same area?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yes, Okay, yes, yes, I think it's heading that way as
well, okay.
I think, that's all theLigurian sea, which is somehow I
don't know where a sea ends andthe ocean begins, but they're
sort of attached.
It's definitely theMediterranean world.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
We eat the Mediterranean diet.
I say yeah.
In between pizzas.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, okay, and then.
So, since it is kind of so farremoved, are there?
You know, a lot of peopletravel by train in Europe.
Do trains go nearby?
Is that one way to get there,or do you have to definitely
rent a car or get a driver toget?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
there.
I knew this would come up.
One of the reasons it's soundiscovered and why I love it
is it is off the beaten path.
You know you have to go toMilan and you can't go Milan all
the way to San Francisco.
You have to go through New Yorkor Frankfurt or something.
So you have to first gettowards either Milano or Turin

(07:29):
or Milan and once you're thereyou can take a train from Milan.
It's about an hour and a half.
You go to a town called Bra orTorino and then you were about a
half an hour or 40 minutes fromthere.
But it's kind of a hike and theItalian trains are somewhat
reliable about half the time.

(07:50):
So it's tricky.
You can't just train around,whereas you can definitely train
around from town to town.
In Cinque Terre, where we are,is more well, it's a wine region
.
It's like Napa, where there,where there's just people, I
think, much prettier rollinghills and lots of greenery, and

(08:12):
there's lots of orchards they dohazelnut orchards, truffles,
all that sort of the.
What's going on?
There is the food, the wine,the food and all that, and a lot
of farmers and very smalllittle family run farms or
vineyards, because it's actuallywhere slow food began.
Do you know about slow food andthe idea?
I know you talk about slowtravel okay.
Well, alice waters, right is in,exactly yeah but before alice

(08:35):
was, uh, the town of bra andthis guy who spelled that bra,
just like the bra bra bra, yes,okay okay, cool.
Yeah, carlo petrini, uh, likepetrini's from marin county, the
grocery store.
Carlo petrini went to the popein um early 90s, I think to the

(08:55):
pope and to the government andsaid I just heard there's going
to be a mcdonald's put on thespanish steps in rome and I'm
outraged.
We can't become a fast foodcountry.
We need to promote slow food.
We need to keep our smalllittle farmers thriving.
We need to keep the food raisednaturally and authentic and
delicious and we need to keepbig food, big manufacturers

(09:20):
coming in and overtaking ourcountry, putting these little
families out of business, takingour farms, covering them up
with parking lots.
And he was so ahead of his time.
You know, it's 30 years ago andwe're just now, while we know
about slow food, we're just nowrealizing the impact of how we
grow food in America, what ithas on how we live, you know
they take over what it has onhow we live.

(09:42):
You know they take over.
You know everything's a mix,something.
You know it's very good foodand there it's very bespoke and
very handmade, artisanal and sodelicious and very seasonal.
They don't have tomatoes inJanuary because it's cold and
the tomatoes are canned, right.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Well, what they do is they grow them, and the
tomatoes are canned, right.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, what they do is they grow them and then the
little nonis, the little mamasand grandmas literally can them
for like three weeks in Augustand eat them all year.
I mean, it's just how we shouldbe with our food.
So the slow food there isfantastic and it's one of the
reasons we love it.
I'm not sure how I got intoslow food, other than the whole

(10:23):
lifestyle is like that.
It's very, take your time, bein the moment and it's natural
and authentic.
It's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I have a couple of questions also about how did you
end up there?
How long were you there?
What did you do in your life,you know, professionally or
being here in the Bay?
Did you grow up here in the Bayarea?
Pretty much, yeah, okay, ohgreat.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Where in the Bay Area did you grow up?
Well, it's now known as SiliconValley, but it was a prune
orchard then and apricotorchards, oh my gosh.
So on like a farm that you grewup.
Yeah, it was a suburban streetin Mountain View, you know,
which is now, you know, crazy.
The same little house is there,but it's, you know, a hundred

(11:05):
times more expensive, I don'tknow how, or probably more than
that.
Yeah, no, I grew up in the Bayarea, went to the university of
Santa Clara, so you know, greatschool, looked at other schools.
I loved it, yeah, but ended upback there and the only thing I
was really good at that I couldtell was writing.
So I sort of followed a careerthat was possibly journalism

(11:27):
wasn't quite sure ended up inadvertising in San Francisco.
So I did that for 10 years anddecided I wanted the bright
lights of Madison Avenue and wasable to get a job in New York,
in Manhattan.
I moved and did that career for10 or 15 years and decided
what's next, where next, and wasable to go to Paris and work

(11:52):
for a year through my job, thencame back and kind of regrouped
and then I went to Frankfurt,germany, for four years and
lived there.
So my job has taken me theseamazingly exciting places.
As a journalist or advertising,I was a copywriter and then a
creative director and I became aglobal creative director.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Oh, so a company sent you to Germany.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
That was okay, all of this was on someone else's
nickel, which was wonderful formy job.
So I really traveled the worldas a global creative director.
You're in charge of a brand,like I was in charge of Pampers
for a long time creatively.
So I really traveled the worldas a global creative director.
You're in charge of a brand,like I was in charge of Pampers
for a long time creatively.
So I'd go around to all thecountries in the world, talk to
the agencies there and work withthem, because I'm a writer, I
understood how they think andwork and I could collaborate

(12:37):
with them.
We'd hang out and come up withideas and I would take them back
to either Procter and Gamble orJohnson and Johnson or whoever
my clients were and explain them.
And you know, kind of was aliaison and part of the team,
part of the creative team.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Oh fun, Did you speak any other languages?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
I studied French and school.
So when I went to Paris for ayear I got pretty fluent, and
then, of course, when you're notthere, you lose it.
But then about six years later,I went to Frankfurt for a
career for four years and I gotpretty good at that.
And so when my husband said howabout Italy?
I'm like you couldn't have doneGermany.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
European speaking, four languages now.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
You have to.
You know, because he gave methe pizza argument.
I'm like you're right, we haveto have pizza.
So we found on our honeymoon,my second, our second marriages
we just for fun thought we'd trySouthern France and Northern
Italy and we went there almostlike, but I sort of guessed well

(13:44):
, that sounds like a nice placeto go.
I think northern Italy soundsgood and there's maybe lakes or
something.
Literally, I didn't know what Iwas doing and we got there
after a week and a half insouthern France, which was
beautiful, but it just didn't.
I didn't say this is where I'mgoing to live my whole life.
I had a great year in Paris andthat was fabulous, but I didn't
really want to go back fulltime.

(14:05):
Although I had always thought Iwould live in Provence.
I always thought Provence wouldbe a nice place to live, but
then, when we got into the Lange, which is called what it's
called in Piemonte, we go, we'redriving, and as we're getting
there, the weather's kind ofcrummy and it didn't look very
interesting and I see a lot offactories and freeways and I'm

(14:26):
like, oh my God, where, whereare we going?
What have I done?
We've got another week of thishoneymoon.
I hope it's nice when we get upto the top of this hill after
almost falling off.
It was just this crazy drive up.
We pull into this completelydeserted hotel this is March
31st.
And I'm like, oh boy, desertedhotel.
This is march 31st.
And I'm like, oh boy, this isgoing to be awful.

(14:47):
So I kind of open the door and,walking on these cobblestones
that are all wet and slippery,open the door and I say
buongiorno, which is the onlyword, the only word I knew in
italian besides ciao, and thisbeautiful girl comes out and
goes buonaona sera, SignoraBoyle.
Oh, such a pleasure.
And we've upgraded you to yourbest room.
And, my God, she was lovely andbeautiful and grabbed our

(15:10):
suitcases and took us upstairsto this gorgeous room, not huge
but gorgeous, with drapes andwindows that opened up over the
pool, and we just went, okay,well, this is going to be okay,
even if we never leave the hotelroom for a week, you know that
will be fine.
So we kind of get regrouped andyou know, the drive was sort of

(15:31):
fading away from our memories.
We go down to ask about dinnerand I said, would you, could we
just eat in the restauranttonight?
And she says, oh, I'm so sorry,we, we make breakfast and lunch
, but unfortunately not dinner.
I said, well, is there a placenearby?
She says, well, it's Tuesdayand so the town of Monforte is

(15:52):
closed.
She says, but, but there is onerestaurant that's open and I
can make you a reservation.
I said, great, okay, that wouldbe nice.
The town is closed, I it.
The town is closed on Tuesdays.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
All of Tuesdays, not just Tuesdays.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Whatever, okay.
So she seemed confident aboutthat.
So we said, okay.
She says and I'll take you,it's the restaurant called Da
Felicine, it's not far, it'sjust see a friend.

(16:27):
And so I said well, is there ataxi?
Also from my years in New York.
And she says yes, there is, buthe's in Milan.
Okay, she goes, but I'll takeyou.
So she literally takes herpurse, locks the door, puts us

(16:49):
in this little Fiat, drives usdown the hill to this incredible
restaurant, with course aftercourse and wine bottle after
wine bottle.
And as dinner's winding up andwe've had a couple glasses of
wine and feel really pretty good, we're going.
Oh, how are we going to getback up that wet, slippery hill?
And the chef and the ownercomes out and says come with me,
I'm taking you back, we'regoing to just back up.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Hospitality Wow.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's that we had those moments about three times
a day.
For the whole week we werethere and just went.
Where are we?
The food was incredible, thepeople were darling and kind and
gracious, and there's nothingnot to like.
The weather the next daybrightened, the sun was
beautiful.
The views just go forever.
They're like miles and miles.

(17:28):
In the distance are the Alpscovered with snow.
And between us and the Alps arevineyards and orchards of
hazelnuts, and that's it.
I mean, it's everything youlove about Italy, on steroids,
you know, because you don't havea lot of the tour operators.
This year they have their firsttour of the old town and I'm
like, oh boy, we're going toknow what's happening.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
It's happening.
This was Piedmont, or Ligurian,or what's the actual town that
you were in.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
The town where we stayed and that what we call our
mothership, is called Monforted'Alba.
So M-O-N-F-O-R-T-E?
D apostrophe, alba.
Alba you've probably heard of.
It's a bigger town, it's 25,000people, you know there's Alba
d'Asti.
I remember hearing that growingup, never heard of Monforte.

(18:19):
But that's this lovely town.
I actually.
We actually live in Rodino,which is like a suburb of
Monforte, but that's this lovelytown.
I actually.
We actually live in Rodino,which is like a suburb of
Monforte.
There are 300 people and I'mthe youngest one in the town,
pretty much.
I mean, it's a really sweet,cute little Italians walking
around.
Nobody speaks English, so youhave to learn Italian.
You just have to to survive,which is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Oh, that's.
Yeah, that's nice.
I kind of feel like everyone'sjust in the whole world and be
speaking English, and so it'skind of nice.
There's not everywhere.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, part of me, and both my husband and I, are sort
of afraid to tell anybody aboutthis place, and yet we can't
help ourselves because we are sosmitten, so in love with it.
Yeah, but we're hearing moreEnglish spoken.
There's a couple people now whohave a kind of a summer home.
There used to be we were theonly Americans.
There were people who therewere four families that shared a

(19:07):
home nearby and they would taketurns coming throughout the
year.
And then there was us and wewere there the whole time.
We ended up moving there thewhole time.
We were so in love with it.
What year did you move and howlong were you there for?
Well, we're still there.
I mean, I, I'm just, we justhave this as a you know foothold
, um, for the book and for youknow, did you say you bought it
in San Francisco or did you rentit?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
we're actually, we bought this okay, yeah, yeah, oh
, that's great, so you're justhere for five months and then
probably rent it out, orsomething like that no, I, you
know it's a.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
It's a pied-a-terre.
It is not like you think.
Homes are in San Francisco.
We bought it at a great time.
So, this we're going to keep forour old age, in case there's
another doctor.
There's a sub story here.
We're here for the doctors,literally, and for our grandkids
, as they're growing up quicklyaround us.
So we have this as a foothold,because the medical care in

(20:01):
Italy would not be something Iwould seek out and here it's
just the best on the planet.
So we said we really need afoothold here.
Oh, that's great, and plus I'mgoing to be busy for the next
several months on my book touraround the area, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
So yeah, absolutely.
So when did you move to that?

Speaker 2 (20:20):
So we bought to um that.
So we bought.
We went that on our honeymoonin I think it was 2010 and came
back 18 months later so that's2012 and fell in love with this
pile of rocks that was called abarn and a farmhouse and that's
when I talk about on my substackletters from a 300 year old

(20:41):
italian farmhouse.
It really is a 300-year-oldstructure where cows and horses
and everybody all these animalslived with a family.
So it's a giant roof, that's,you know, 50 feet tall, and
stone walls and this view thatjust goes all the way out to
Monviso and all the way outacross the valleys.

(21:02):
And we said, well, how about, asa project, we try and do the
old fixer-upper?
We saw all those HGTV shows andthought, well, we can do a
fixer-upper.
And we just started taking itapart and putting it back
together and built a home andnow a life, and my husband has
planted 75 vines and we make 100bottles of wine every year and

(21:23):
we have a vegetable garden andwe make 100 bottles of wine
every year, and we have avegetable garden and we eat our
vegetables and we have a pool.
So when it's hot we just jumpin the pool because there's
nothing air conditioned thereit's.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
It's just a dream, it's a dream so we're there as
much as we can be is it elevatedat all, so like it doesn't get
crazy hot in the summer, orthat's a great question.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
we're just under 2000 feet, so it's a bit cooler and
it's north.
You know we're surrounded bythe Alps.
You always have breezes in theafternoon.
So, I hate telling you guys,just don't tell anybody except
the two of us.
Okay, about all this Soundsgood Because it really is so
authentic and so kind ofpristine.
Authentic and so kind ofpristine.

(22:01):
And you see some NorthernEuropeans coming to visit, like
from Holland, and in fact wehave a little Airbnb for two
people, so we just get a coupleat a time that we get to share
our property with and get toknow them and that's really fun.
For us it's just kind ofinteresting to have Europeans

(22:22):
come for a week and leave moreof them.
For us it's just kind ofinteresting to have europeans
come for a week and leave, butthey're very comfortable
traveling there because it'ssort of a gastro wine region.
It's there, you, they comethere for the food and the wine,
the biking and walking oh, thebike, and that sounds amazing.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
So I was thinking, you know, um, I'm not a big wine
person, I'm not a big drinker,um, is, is that like, kind of
like the focus, a lot like?
Or is it like, you know, if youlove I mean, I love the great
food, I love to cook you know,would I appreciate it as much,
without being a a wineconnoisseur definitely, and we
have friends that that don'tdrink, that are that love.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
It is the big basis of the economy, or what
separates it from a lot of theregions that are kind of, oh,
downtrod, or you know the thekids grow up and move away here,
that they move away and comeback.
You know cause they do they canbe the winemakers, or they have
tourism, wine tourism.
So that's a chunk of it.
The wine it's also.

(23:18):
I don't know, do you likechocolate, carol?

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Of course, yes, I do.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
And hazelnuts.
I love hazelnuts.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
And hazelnuts?

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, that'll keep you busy.
And how are you on pasta andpizza?
You know, I mean the food isgreat, it's just so.
It's about that.
It's also about bikerseverywhere.
I mean we share the windy,beautiful little windy roads
with bikers.
It's called the L, the lange,which means ridges, so all these

(23:46):
little ridges, ridge lines, andyou're on the ridge lines and
sort of winding, but there'sviews on either side of you the
whole time.
So my husband's a big biker anda great place for that.
So it isn't just wine, but winefuels the economy and keeps it
thriving very nice.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
You said something earlier about lakes, and when
I'm looking up and I'm just,I've clicked on it and it says,
um, the islands of the italianlakes, and there's one little
island that has a whole bunch ofbuildings on it and with a, but
it just looks breathtaking, oris that?

Speaker 2 (24:15):
right near.
That's what I, where I thoughtI was going was hopefully maybe
the lake district, because Iheard good things about it and
and that's on kind of right nearMilan.
That just past Milan so we're.
It's a two hour three hourdrive to get to the lakes.
But George Clooney and friends,live on Como and Lago di Garda,
maggiore.

(24:36):
And now we go there for like aweek for fun and just stay in a
funky cute hotel or get anAirbnb and that's a nice getaway
in the summer.
But it's a little more touristy.
You get crowds, but they'reItalian tourists, you know which
is nice, that's not so bad.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, it's very breathtaking and I was curious
when you said weather and itgets hot and you can jump in the
pool but the Alps are there.
What's like kind of thetemperature there?
What's the climate like?

Speaker 2 (25:04):
I know you're sensitive to that.
I was listening to you about.
You know where you travel andwhat you like, and I'm the same
way.
When you grow up in the BayArea, it's always perfect.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
So I grew up in Redondo Beach in Southern
California, so also perfect.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
I'm real sensitive to weather and what I like is the
winters.
It might snow a couple timesand it's chilly, so we have a
lot of fires and make a lot ofsoups.
April, may, june is justbeautiful and perfect.
And it starts warming up.
I mean the sun there.
When the sun comes out, youfeel it, you know it's toasty,
but it's in the 70s 80s.

(25:35):
You know.
You get a few days in August,end of July, especially where it
might be 90.
And that gets a little hotbecause the sun is up until 915
on the 21st of June and is upagain at by 530.
So it's a long day of sun, yeah, like here.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Like no, it's and you're in a brick house, right?

Speaker 2 (25:58):
It's stone but it's this thick, so if it doesn't get
too hot it will cool down atnight.
If you've had 10 days of highnineties it's a little hot, you
know.
You have fans in all the rooms,but it's beautiful and in the
morning it's like 65, 68.
So you take a walk when it'scool and you go.

(26:19):
Of course nothing's heated, sothe water's cold when you jump
in the water and then you'recomfortable all evening.
I leave my hair wet, you know.
I eat dinner with a kind of acold stomach for my bathing suit
and it feels great.
I just swim every day.
You know it's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Is it humid there or is there a humidity or is it
kind of the area I'm justthinking, like with Napa, like
if the wines and things.
It must be similar climate tothis area.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
It's similar there because we're up on the hills a
little bit and the Alps areright there.
There's snow on the Alps almostall year round, I think in
August it maybe melts right atthe top of Monvizo, but it's
dryish.
You'll get some rain.
So it's very, very green, butit is not a humid climate.
It's pleasant and there's kindof breeze breezes most

(27:05):
afternoons in the summer.
It gets foggy in the fall.
It's beautiful, but you'll havefog, I mean sometimes all day
you know, but I like it.
I like the cool and freshness ofit.
It's wonderful.
I walk every morning.
That's my thing.
I get up, have my smoothie andthen I have to take a walk or
I'm really cranky the rest ofthe day.
So how long do you walk for?
Oh, I don't know, 45 minutes toan hour, but just but it's

(27:26):
hilly, so I'm back.
You know, I feel like I've I'vemoved.
It's good, Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
So I have a question.
I don't know where I've seenthis, but at one point I
remember they said oh, you canbuy a house for a dollar in
these like small little towns inItaly, but they need to be need
work.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Is that kind of what?

Speaker 1 (27:47):
you searched out, or like that's, that's another part
of the country.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
No, no, we'd heard about that, and there are towns
that do that.
They tend to be a little morerugged.
I think there's more southern.
This has got sort of a German,swiss, nordic influence and that
they're very clean and veryproud and very kind of on time
and organized, the water's cleanand all that.
I think there are some townsthat are really just like 40

(28:11):
rundown abandoned homes andthree families that live there
and that's a kind of a harderthing and I think you could get
those for a dollar.
However, when we found our barn, which was literally decrepit,
without you'd look up and youcould see the stars through the
wood beams, you know, really nota good place to sleep and the

(28:31):
animals were fine with it, but,um, we were going to make it for
people and we thought we shouldprobably insulate it and put on
windows.
That wait, the question was.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Sorry, I lost it again oh, about um, like there
was towns that had these dollarslike how did you decide?
Um, I shouldn't probablyconfide, yeah no, we don't need
to know the price, but like howdid you know where to look?
Like, did you find a realtor?

Speaker 2 (28:56):
yeah, we, we got a realtor.
Um, we do that often, you know,when we travel just get a
realtor and look at homes andget curious about it.
We had done that over the years.
We had just gotten married andthought, ok, we really do need a
home.
Would we ever do this here?
And it was just sort of aproject at first.
But it was quite affordable.
I mean, I wrote a check for it,you know, not talking, we

(29:16):
didn't need a mortgage.
It was very, very cheap byAmerican standards, by
California.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
It was very, very cheap by American standards but
California standards, it wasridiculous.
Okay, if someone were to say,okay, I want to buy a second
home, but I don't want to dothat kind of work.
Like are we talking a hundredthousand dollars to buy
something very modest, yeah,okay.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
But you would need to usually put something into it.
You know, you don't have to oryou could get something around
there Like we have friends fromthat's funny, a long story.
He had been my teacher in highschool and through all kinds of
random things.
He comes walking into a cafethe other day and I'm like is
that my teacher from high school?
I mean, it was that random andhe lives in Sonoma and so he and

(30:00):
his wife who was wonderful havebought an apartment here.
That's quite cute, it hasbeautiful views and I don't
think they spent, you know,anywhere near what they would
have on their home in Sonoma.
What they do is they rent outthis when they're not here, they
rent out their home in Sonomaand they just switch back and
forth.
So, that exists and people dobuy smaller places as a second

(30:21):
place.
Our home is pretty big.
It's three bedrooms, threebathrooms, a den, a whole area
that we don't know what to dowith but I use it for my laundry
and a little cave that haswhere we keep our wines, and
then a winery attached and thenan apartment we rent out.
So it's almost like not a villa, because we're also attached to

(30:41):
another family who we adore.
You know they've become likeour extended family, but we have
a pool, so that's.
It's a kind of wow posh lookingplace.
Again, about a fifth of whatyou would expect it to be in in
California.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Just to say you're attached to a family.
Is that when you rent out theapartment, the Airbnb that you
do?
Or are you because in SwedenI'm Swedish there's like this it
looks like a castle and thenyou'll see it, they've cut it
and there's three houses thatpeople buy.
Is it something like that?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yes, it is.
It's what happens is.
It started as a house and thenthey had kids, and so the kids
moved in and built on, and thenthey moved in and they had kids
and they moved in, and then theymoved in and they had kids and
they moved in.
So it sort of grows, you know.
And so we live where theanimals did, because they have
the best views, because theydon't care about views in Italy,
they have them everywhere.
They don't think twice about it.
We're like what we put it in aCalifornia window so we can see

(31:35):
the sunset at night, and they'regoing, yeah, but then the sun
streams in and they're right,it's hot because of it, because
of it, but yeah.
So there was a couple otherfamilies.
There's a house attached thisway that is literally falling
down and should just bedestroyed, but they won't sell
it because they like to parktheir tractors there.
And there's one attached tothat and this is the sweetest
old family.

(31:55):
We loved them.
They were both in theirnineties and they'd come out
from Torino every summer, climbup and down the stairs and work
in their garden and go out everynight and play cards and come
back at midnight.
I swear they were adorable andas they passed away, their
granddaughter has taken it overand their daughter, their
daughter and their granddaughterlived there and they're

(32:16):
adorable and they make lifebetter.
It's not like well, if only wehad the whole place to ourselves
.
They're fun, you know, and wepractice our Italian and and
they're friends now and family.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
So when they died.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
That was a heartbreak and then we have our home and
then there's another room in theback that we rent out, um, just
to couples.
You know, it's it's smallAirbnb thing that you do, is it?
Yeah, and that's all.
We just go through Airbnbbecause it's easy, you know,
yeah, and remember that thatsounds all summer.
I'll let you know anytime youwant, but but it's already

(32:49):
booking up for next year, it's.
It's really fun, that'sfantastic.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
And then what do people do?
Like you say, you know in termsof like professions and
lifestyle, like what's a typicalday for and and and I meant to
also also confirm so you, from2012, have lived there, so
you've been there since then.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Okay, yeah, um, the one of you that had started to
read my book said don't give meany spoilers.
So this is a spoiler alert.
Sorry I was there.
Um, we were able to move inabout 2015.
And we said, boy, do we I don'tknow, should we?
And we're like, are we crazy?
Well, let's just try it.

(33:29):
So we rented out our place for ayear and decided we loved it.
So we sold our place in thecity and we're there full time
for a couple of years and out ofthe blue, I get breast cancer,
which I hadn't planned and wasnot on my agenda.
And I'm talking to our son,who's a doctor.
He says you should be treatedwhere you have the best support.

(33:50):
And we just started thinking welove it here, but when you're
tired and not feeling well, youneed to speak English.
So we didn't even rent it out.
We really like packing right.
You know, like you're gettingready for a fire, almost.
We came home quickly, rented aplace here for a year, had
fabulous treatment.
I'm cured.
Literally seven years later, Ican tell you I'm happy ending.

(34:13):
Yeah, it was amazing.
It was a really, really roughyear.
So we were gone for that yearand came back for a while, but I
have to go back and forth everysix months.
So for a while we kept a placehere that we rented, and then,
as I got better, we're like,okay, sell it.
In the midst, though, covidshowed up.
Thank you so much.
Also not on the agenda, and wehappened to be here during the

(34:34):
winter when it started, andthat's when you were seeing all
those people on the balconies inItaly singing we will win, we
will win.
But then it came here, so itstarted in Milan, really right
by us, and then it got to be inCalifornia, so we couldn't go
back for like six months there,you know.
So we've been juggling withlife and renting when we have to

(34:57):
, or we finally were able to buyagain this fall, and so we have
always kind of a foothold withour family here and our
grandkids, and all that,although they come to visit us
all the time.
So it's not like we're notseeing them.
But yeah, since so 2015,?
I feel like that's where myheart is, although I've been
here a lot we were there almosttwo years straight again now

(35:18):
that I don't have to go everysix months, so how nice that
flexible lifestyle and traveland well we're flexible, yeah,
because we're retired, althoughmy husband's still working.
But these days everybody is,everybody can work from home, it
seems like, and and they havereally good internet there.
Now it's not quite like you'dfind in the states, but it's
certainly, you know, serviceableso you can do the nomad thing

(35:42):
and work from.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Italy for sure.
So how long does it take youwhen you're flying from San
Francisco to like fly to, Iguess, milan and then take the
train and the car?
Whatever, um, planes, trains,automobiles, what's your like?
Full door-to-door, 15 hours, 12hours?
No, it's 24, you know, if youreally we're couple hours from
Milan.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
what we often do is spend the night at this lovely
Sheraton that's at the airport,literally in Milan.
So we get there in theafternoon, have dinner, relax,
you know, because when you leaveyou have to close up the whole
house, you're not just racingout the door.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
So that's we leave like at three, get there for
dinner, spend the night, leavelike an eight o'clock flight,
spend the night, leave like aneight o'clock flight and we're
here.
We're actually in San Francisco, usually by three or so.
You usually have to stop atanother major city in Europe,
like Amsterdam or Paris orsomething, one of the bigger
cities, because there are noMilan SF non-stops I'd love it

(36:37):
if there were or you go throughNew York.
So it's really almost 24 hoursof travel, but it's you just
figure.
That's why not.
That's what you do.
It's worth it A day of yourlife.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Okay, and you know, as Chris and I both are
approaching empty nesting, youknow there's a lot of purging
going on, so you have probablydone with all your purging, I
would assume, with all thesemoves.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
It's a really good feeling.
It's like losing weight.
Seriously, you're like do Ineed this?
Do I do it really?
And you do.
We get smaller places that weneed and the things that are
left are the things you love thebest.
You know my mother's pot, myfather's chair, you know those
kinds of surround me now.
So when we moved back into thislittle place, everything we
brought out we loved it wasreally easy.
And you do.
You feel like, do I need allthis stuff?

(37:30):
Americans have so much stuff.
Europeans have a couch thatthey buy when they're married
and then that's it, and theydon't like change colors or
update or go to the pottery barand fall sale.
They have a couch because it'sperfectly fine and if it's a
blue, that's what it is.
They spend way less money atChristmas.
They're buying perfectly fine,and if it's a blue, that's what
it is, you know it's there.
They spend way less money atChristmas.
They're buying less stuff.
And the gosh, the food is abouta third of what we pay here.

(37:51):
It's so cheap I think.
Okay, it must be anotherquestion is subsidized or
something, because the grocerystores will live with a giant
cart and sometimes it gets upalmost to $100.
Whereas here you buy eightthings and you're at $300 and
you go.
How did that happen?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yes, Right, oh yeah, so is Amazon prime there.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
It wasn't whoa, it wasn't for the longest time and
I kept going.
I'd kill for a home improvementstore, for you know, bed, bath
and beyond, but of coursethey're there now.
I mean, things have changedsince 2015.
It's much more online and weget Amazon a couple times a week
, but we don't need that much.
Literally not that we have thevegetable garden.

(38:32):
You know you go buy fish or youmight buy chicken, although
they don't have a lot of chickenthere.
You have to really look for itand grill a couple nights a week
.
And then you go to the marketsare great.
You go to the markets onMondays and Wednesdays.
The giant, the whole town istaking over with vegetables and
cheese trucks and pasta,handmade pasta, those kinds of
things.
That's what you do and you runinto all your neighbors and you

(38:53):
have coffee and so it's soinexpensive.
You go to the farmer's marketand it's hard to spend five
dollars on anything.
You know you get like thisveggie, that veggie, and it's
like three, three euros and 50cents for like so much food.
So you know, when you'reretired that stuff does matter.
You're happy what you spend.

(39:14):
You go out to dinner I knowyou've asked about dinner.
Going out to restaurants mightcost 40 euros for the two of us,
so maybe 50 and you leave fulland with the best food and
that's with wine drinks.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, yeah, oh, wow, yeah yeah, I know now it's like
a glass of wine.
It's like 14, 14.
I know the wine I bought 20like for a drink, or 20, 25,
okay, that's, that's.
I don't drink either.
So it's like well, I'm notspending my money, that's, I
don't drink either.
So it's like well, I'm notspending my money there, that's
good.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
So you guys get off, get off well after that.
I have a bottle of Arnaz that Ilove, um, that we buy at the
grocery store.
That has gone up in price fromfour euros, 75, all the way up
to six euros a bottle.
But I'm willing to stick withit.
You know, and literally it's sodelicious and you can pay eight
or nine, maybe 10 euros, butyou don't spend that much on

(40:09):
wine.
It just it's probably not toship it that far.
It's just right down the road,right, and it's delicious and
it's or you make your own tooright, no, yeah, and we now make
our own, which is probably wejoke that in order to pay for
you know our costs we have tocharge 300 dollars a bottle for
my husband's homemade wine yeah,that's funny.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, the neighbors that have chickens.
My husband's like we should getchickens.
I'm like I just don't want, Ijust don't want that one.
I know they're easy, but I justdon't want that one.
I know they're easy, but I justdon't want that thing.
And you know, and ourneighbor's like, yeah, basically
it costs us $7.
And she sells it to me for $7.
I'm like, well, that works forme.
I don't have to do the work andI get the chicken eggs.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
For the eggs?
Yeah, I was curious.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
You said that chicken .
There's not a lot of chickenthere.
And what's the protein beef ormeat source there?

Speaker 2 (40:53):
should use the fish another, another speech I have
to give to every guest thatwalks in the door, especially
the ones from california um,they just don't, they're not
interested in chicken.
They just think, oh yeah,they're these weird little
animals that you get eggs from,you know, and that's how you
make your pastas from their eggs, and they don't eat oats.
Why do we eat oats?
It's for the, for the horses,but they happen to grow.

(41:15):
There's just beautiful,beautiful animals.
They're cows and they harvestthem just like a couple of weeks
before two years, but they'vebeen raised beautifully.
They look like Popeye, they'revery lean and they're very
muscly and they're beautiful andthey've been grazing their
whole lives outside.
So it's technically veal, butit is nothing like the veal we

(41:36):
know because people go veal.
And I don't eat that kind ofveal here either because it's
really terrible what they do tothe animals.
But it's as lean as chicken butit has complete amino acids and
is good protein and if you haveiron deficiencies it's
delicious and good for you.
Very tender, because the waythe muscle fibers of the animals

(41:59):
are very, somehow webbed sothat they're very, very delicate
and juicy and yet light andtender.
So we have that.
That's the meal, that's theveal that goes in the pasta.
They'll have pork and veal, butthe pork is often the wild pork
.
So it's just that you just haveto kind of go think differently

(42:19):
.
I'm in a different country andthis is what's keeping the
farmers here, it's what keepingthe keeping the grass green and
the landscape is beautiful andand they make money on it and
it's.
It's just, it's the ecosystemthere that works, yeah, so maybe
a couple of times a week and Ican seek out chicken, but they

(42:39):
now have a something called thePolaria that you go to and
that's where you get the chickenwe have.
When the first year for we werethere for Thanksgiving, we
ordered a whole Turkey and theywere so excited oh, we've heard
about that holiday where you eata Turkey.
Wow, and they, they wrote it up.
And when we, when we come in topick it up on the wednesday, we
pull into the driveway andthey're like you can see them

(42:59):
running to the back and comingout and they were so excited
that the people who wanted theturkey were arriving.
They gave us this big thingwith like floppy arms and legs
that look like a two-year-old,without a head.
Swear to god.
We've kind of brought it home.
It barely fit in the oven.
We had to break the arms andthe legs to stick it into the
oven because the ovens are sotiny and it was the best I've

(43:20):
ever had.
So they just they eatdifferently and I'm learning
from it and they're learningfrom us.
It's kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Wow, so did you have a traditional?
I know we've got Thanksgivingcoming up really shortly.
Did you have the Thanksgivingthere with stuffing and all the
a few times.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
We had smuggled in some cranberries, canned I think
.
I think our son brought it overthat summer in his suitcase.
I couldn't find pecans, whichwas a heartbreak, because that's
my, my mom's, from New Orleans.
If you don't have pecan pie,you know I made one yesterday
actually.
But so what did we do?
Do?
I think we skipped that?
We did a pumpkin pie but, now Ibring.

(43:59):
When I come back here I load upon pecans and cranberry and but
there they have potatoes andsquash and pumpkin and and now
that we know where to get the um, the, the one turkey in town,
we get that and we're famous forit.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Now they like the turkey.
How about the sweet potatoes?
Are they accessible?

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, so many kinds.
We grow our own potatoes now.
They're actually delicious.
Have you ever grown potatoes?

Speaker 1 (44:25):
No, my Swedish relatives do a lot in the
fingerling potatoes and then wewere at we have there's a family
member that has a very old farmand they do everything and I
was so busy seeing all my familyI didn't get out, but all the
kids got out and they got topick them.
I still dig them up.
So you dig them up in it.
And how is that?
How like?
You just like find it.

(44:46):
How do you find?

Speaker 2 (44:47):
it.
It's kind of you got to go.
You know six to eight to 10inches.
You need some kind of trowel toget down there and it's real
messy and the dirt.
I mean.
Even when you go to thefarmer's market you bring home
the potatoes, the dirt is justclinging to them.
You know that's not allsanitized, it's all real.
You know all of the food I haveto wash like four more, five
more times than I do at home.
But yeah, we just dig them upand they're shockingly better.

(45:10):
It's like everything thattomatoes are like.
Why are those tomatoes so good?
Why are the potatoes so good?
It's, the carrots were allgnarly and they were delicious,
it's just oh wow.
It's just different.
It sounds good, and what arethe?

Speaker 1 (45:24):
traditional meals like breakfast, lunch, dinner.
When do you have them?
Is it?
Do they eat at the same time aswe do here, and what do they
eat for breakfast, lunch anddinner?

Speaker 2 (45:32):
It's funny because when guests come they say, well,
where should I go for breakfast?
And I have to tell them theydon't really do that.
They don't have like abreakfast place.
Yeah, they have coffeeeverywhere and that you can get
a croissant, and theircroissants are not as good as
French.
Sometimes, when we will drivedown to to Savona and go towards
France instead of Italy just toget the bread and bring it back

(45:54):
.
It's a two hour trip but it'sworth it.
But but they're okay, they'repretty good.
So you get the croissants and acoffee, a couple of coffees,
and they might be stuffed withalmonds or pistachio cream or
something or they might just beplain.
Obviously, the families I knowwill have like yogurt at home,
maybe cornflakes we saw myneighbor eats cornflakes every

(46:15):
morning.
They don't really have orangejuice much, they don't think
about juice, but you might havefruit and yogurt.
Very light breakfasts and thenthe lunches are usually more of
a sit down, but not giant.
They might have a big soup orsomething or they might have
pasta and maybe a roast stew,some kind of stew, and wine

(46:37):
often, which that one always.
Yeah, even the guys buildingour home would go for their
workers lunch for an hour and ahalf every day and have wine and
not not have it phase them.
But of course they work fromseven 30 till noon, and then
again from you know one, 30 tilleight.
They just worked so many hours.
Question that yeah, they workreally hard, so the lunches are

(47:04):
kind of more homespun.
I think the typical mom willwake up, you know, give her kids
.
Oh they, you know, what theyhave a lot of is Nutella.
They'll put chocolate and toastand send the kids out with
chocolate and toast, which islike peanut butter, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
I had that for my kids too growing up.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Well, your parents and grandparents know about
chocolate for breakfast.
It's different.
You know I can't quite do that,but I usually have my breakfast
is a smoothie, yogurt and fruitevery morning, and then lunch
will be whatever we had lastnight.
You know, grilled veggies atRoom Tampa, or a caprese or
something.
Or maybe I can't really dopasta at lunch, but I might have

(47:40):
some leftover chicken orsomething if we grilled it.
And then dinners are just, youknow, fantastic.
It's like going to an Italianrestaurant every night.
You know we grill at home orwe'll make simple things in the
oven.
I love to cook, so that's a bigpart of it, but you go out for
the pasta because it's so goodand the pizzas are great, very
light.
They're light and they don'thave a pound of meat on them.

(48:04):
They just have the right amountof cheese, the right amount of.
Maybe there is a pepperoni,maybe there's just mushrooms,
maybe there's the white pizza,but they're very light and
filling.
You know, you, each you orderone pizza, or my husband does,
or I'll have a salad and onepiece of his pizza.
That's plenty.
But they don't go out torestaurants every night,

(48:25):
necessarily.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
They cook at home a lot, yeah, and then how much?
If someone wanted to go there,how much should they anticipate
spending To stay, to stay liketo visit or stay, or if they
wanted to stay there for sixmonths a year or something like
that, how much would they shouldthey budget?

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Should they budget?

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
For food.
Like I said, I think it's abouta third of what we pay in
California, so I don't know howmuch that is, depending on each
family.
Our Airbnb, that is two storieswith a little kitchen and a
living room downstairs.
Upstairs, a nice bathroom witha big american type shower, you
know, and of course it has abidet that I don't know what to
do with bidets, but in a toilet.

(49:06):
And we ask.
We're at about 170 euros anight, which I find
extraordinarily expensive, butthe europeans pay it and they're
happy with it.
You could certainly getsomething for a hundred a night,
a hundred euros, pretty easily.
And that would be like 110, 115if you're doing a night by night
.
And I imagine you can get dealsfor a week or two If we were

(49:28):
going to rent our place out inthe winter, which we would only
do if we're there.
So we can.
We like to help people and makereservations for them and tell
them where we think they mightwant to eat oh nice, we like
that.
And also if there's a problem,I, you know, we've only ever
gotten five stars at our Airbnband I, I would hate.
If there's a problem we can'thelp it, you know, fix it if

(49:48):
we're right away.
So we don't rent one, we're notthere, yeah.
But I think we would rent itfor a hundred or less a night in
the winter or for the month.
We did rent it to an Americantour operator.
This lovely single woman cameand spent two months with us.
We gave her.
It was super cheap.
I don't remember what it was,but it was certainly you'd do a
deal in.

(50:08):
April.
You know why not yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
It's not expensive.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
It's getting there, you know gas.
Gas is expensive, energy isexpensive, and but food is
reasonable.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Lodging is, by our standards, a couple grand a
month or so, like because itsounds like if it's 100 a night.
Or like if they rented you know, got a place for six months or
something like that it would,assuming you know, $2,000 a
month rent or that would beextraordinarily high.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I know families that pay 300 a month.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
So that's what I was wondering.
Okay, so it's a hundred to stayat an Airbnb, but 300 a month.
If you're going to stay theresomewhere, they'll live there.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
I think my friends and she was also an Italian
teacher were paying about $300to $400 a month.
It could be more.
It could be more, certainly,but that's a very modest
probably simply furnished acouch and a bed and you'd have
to do everything else, and thenmaybe utilities on top.
Although I don't know, I thinkthey're included.

(51:11):
I don't know, Very nice, it'svery reasonable.
Yeah, no, I think they'reincluded.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
I don't know.
Oh, very nice, it's veryreasonable, yeah, okay.
Well, we are getting close tothe end of our time.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
I do have some rapid fire questions and I also wanted
to quickly.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
One question was Pinch Me the book.
When does it come out and whydid you call it Pinch Me?
Which I kind of have an ideaonce we've talked.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Now that you know it's February 11th, you can
pre-order it now on Amazon orusually at a bookstore near you.
It's Barnes and Noble.
It's being distributed by SimonSchuster, so it's everywhere.
But thank you, if you go ontoAmazon, you'll find it right
away.
Pinch Me.
There's two reasons.
The subhead is waking up in a300-year-old Italian farmhouse,

(51:51):
so it's like, pinch me, am Idreaming?
Am I really living this life?
It can't be real.
That's one level.
The other level is the pastathere that is unique to them and
unbelievably good is calledplin.
So ravioli del plin means theravioli that's been pinched.
That's Piemontese for pinch.
So, the pinch ravioli because itholds the nooks and crannies of

(52:15):
the butter and sage and it isthe most perfect morsel of food
on the planet, I'm convinced.
There's a little bit meat, lotsof veggies, touch of cheese,
very healthy, so satisfying, andsuch comfort food.
You have a small plate, you arecontent, you are full, you're
not stuffed, it's perfect.
So I'm obsessed with ravioli,d'opline and that's, and as you

(52:36):
read it, you go wait, there's acouple levels to the pinch here
and there are jokes about beingpinched in Rome, but I've never
been pinched in Rome.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Oh, that's great, I'm writing it down.
I'll have to look up raviolidel plin.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Del plin.
Yep, it's special.
You can also.
They have it at somerestaurants known as Agnolotti.
And there's a what's?
The restaurant in Napa, themost expensive restaurant in the
world of.
French laundry, yes, he makes.
He has a whole show on and hecalls it an Agnolotti.
And I'm like it's not a latte.

(53:09):
A latte is a coffee with milk.
It's a lotti AgnolottiA-G-N-L-O-T-T-I agnolotti.
But if you ever come acrossagnolotti you see them
occasionally in California orderit and you'll go oh, I get it,
they're perfect.
I'm going to search it outSearch it out.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
It's worth it, you'll be glad I actually have a
really great Italian place nextto me.
Maybe I'll check that that'sbeen there, ask them.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
There's Piemonte, which is different than you know
.
The pastas are really regional,but they might know them yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Okay, I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Andiolotti means little corners, whereas plin
means little.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Oh, okay, very cool.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
Love it.
Okay, I'm ready Rapid.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
All right, so what's a?

Speaker 2 (53:55):
popular holiday tradition that's maybe unique to
not in America.
There's the oh, there's twothings.
Panettone I always leap to theanswer in food.
Panettone is this lovely kindof cake with sort of a crunchy
top and sugar these big chunksof sugar on top with just
raisins we have a co worker.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Do you remember Annie Mergens, carol?
Do you know that name, annieMergens?
I don't think so.
We worked at the same companyback in the 90s and that is by
far the one thing I know.
When I get her, that's what shewants for the holidays or
christmas, is that?

Speaker 2 (54:24):
no, and you.
We buy them here and they'redry and horrible, but the ones
we have at our local thing, youeat a bite and go.
Why is this so good and like?
But we have to buy two now, oneto eat in the car on the way
home and one to have for theholiday because it's just so
crazy.
Good, it's crazy.
The second thing is on november1st I I did a post on that in my
letters from a 300 year oldfarmhouse instead of halloween

(54:47):
and costumes and candy and allthat, the family gets together
and goes to the cemetery andit's not morbid, but you have it
, remembering your grandparents,and then they go for a nice
lunch and it's kind of a lovely,lovely day.
It's like the Spanish tradition.
It's not quite the Day of theDead, but it's All Saints Day,
you know, or All Souls Day, Iguess, and it's a holiday.

(55:10):
So they get the 31st off orthey take the day off and so the
kids might have a party.
You might see one pumpkin orone costume it's only imitating
Americans but it's a very sacredand lovely and cozy kind of a
Thanksgiving.
I think that's a specialholiday, that's one.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
And this might already might've we might've
mentioned this like, if you'regoing to have one meal at your
favorite restaurant, what wouldthat be?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
No question.
The ravioli, the raviolid'Alpine I mean I can't wait to
get off the plane, wash my hands, wash my face and go to the
local tractoria to have aravioli d'Alpine with butter and
sage, the burro, salvia,nothing fancy.
Is there cheese in there On top?
There's a tiny bit of cheese in.
I think what they do iswhatever you've cooked all week,

(55:56):
which they always use, a coupleof roasts, you know, pot roasts
of veal or or rabbit or pork,but usually usually rabbit and a
little bit of veal, a lot ofgreens, a lot of um escarole or
radicchio, a lot of big loosegreens and a tiny bit of cheese.
And then you put it in thislittle pocket and it's, oh, it's

(56:17):
heavenly.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
And do you make?

Speaker 2 (56:19):
it yourself.
I have taken classes threetimes and I have not made it at
home by myself, just because Idon't tend to do that.
In a typical week, I don't needa pile of meat and a pile of
veggies, and you could use otherthings.
I think at the French La, thefrench laundry, they stuff it
with mashed peas, which would begood.
You could probably use, justyou know, ricotta or something

(56:40):
as well.
That would be fine, but the waythey make it, the trattorias
are, you know, extraordinaryokay, and is there any music?

Speaker 1 (56:48):
that's very um.
Representative of the area well, we go.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
We love Vivaldi and every year we go to Venice in
December and go to a Vivaldiconcert and you get the Four
Seasons playing and I just gohome and there's like music in
my head all night as I'msleeping.
But in Monforto, where we live,they have what they call jazz
concerts, which is not reallyjazz, but they call it that and
they about six times in thesummer have an outdoor concert.

(57:16):
Up in the old town there's a,there's two churches, there's
the old church and the very oldchurch, and the very old church
is at the top of the hill and itgot deconsecrated when a woman
dared to preach a sermon, sothey took it out of the catholic
church, chopped her head off,named a bar after her, and now
they have concerts in theamphitheater outside of the old
church, the old old church,which is at the top of the hill

(57:38):
and beautiful.
That's a tradition there.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
They love their music funny story, oh my gosh.
And and then how about um money, like, obviously I know it's
the euro, you mentioned that,but you know, do you typically
exchange your money ahead oftime?
Is everything on you know onyour phone for pay, or do you
really want cash?
How does that work?

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Cash is king.
I mean exchanging money on yourphone.
It does not happen.
When we come to visit our sonhere, I go.
Could you give $5 to the guythat took the suitcases?
He goes, I don't have any money.
I'm like, well, you're grown up, you're 30 years old, you don't
have any money.
He goes.
I have my phone, you know, andin Italy they they don't even
use their phones for phone calls.

(58:18):
You know, literally it's cash,it's.
You know, or you check and youhave to walk out with a little
receipt.
If you pay money, they have togive you a receipt.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
It's legal that you buy a receipt.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
So it's very uh 50 years ago for us, but it's worth
it because it's way lessexpensive, you know, okay, great
.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
And that's just the closest place to surf.
We mentioned that early on.
There's like a couple hours,but probably not like surf
surfing in the Mediterranean itmust be.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I mean, you could Google it.
There probably is a place.
I mean there's great beautifulbeaches, you know, and the lakes
are fantastic.
Obviously they're not surfing.
But there's a place in Liguriabut it's a kind of a gentle,
more shallow probably, geographythan what you're used to on the
West Coast, where you get realwaves coming in, you know Right,
yeah, and then for you, are youa coffee or a tea person?

(59:11):
I used to be coffee and then Ihad a really bad flu, almost a
pneumonia, and it was justnothing sounded good.
So I switched over to decafgreen tea.
So there I am, which makes itreally easy when you travel.
Could you just put littlepackets of tea with you and you
can go all around the world andtake up this much room in your
suitcase.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
You're set.
You know, if you can get hotwater, you're good to go.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Oh, that's great, very good, all right, I'm
looking actually at surf andthere's a lot of surf legoria,
and then there's a whole bunchhere, italian riviera so you're
in that community and they'llreach out to you.
I don't hear that stuff spoken,so now you know, that's good to

(59:56):
know, and it just kind of has awhole bunch of different spots.
Let laracy laricel-a-l-e-r-i-c-i, levanto nervy
is it farther down?
Kristin, like along, the is theleg of the boot like the alps
are kind of going on.
It looks probably south it's.
It looks like no um imperia isway, yeah sure imperia.

(01:00:22):
But so there's imperia and thenit goes up and it goes down the
coastline and then you go upfrom imperia.
Then, on the way down, all ofthose spots are the surf spots,
it looks I believe that You'remore out into the ocean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
You're probably much closer to the Mediterranean.
There You'll get waves there.
Yeah, probably the differencebetween an ocean and a sea the
ocean gets the waves, the sea is, you know, fine.
Yeah, lovely Are therecentenarians in Deer Town.
What are centenarians?

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
People that are over 100 years old.
Oh, like that.
That climate and themediterranean is really good for
the.
You know I joke about.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
I mean one of the talks I'm going to give on my
book tour is um living in alight blue zone, you know,
because the blues are.
There's a big one in themediterranean.
Yeah, I mean, the way of lifeis slower.
It's better for your heart.
You eat organic food thatyou've just had in your backyard
and you get together everymorning for coffee and talk to

(01:01:24):
your buddies.
That's part of the whole bluelife.
You know the blue zone thing.
You get up and work for acouple hours but then you take a
real good nap in the afternoonand you drink maybe one glass of
wine a day.
Maybe, you know, not too muchit's.
Yeah, there's certainly.
Literally I tell you I'm theyoungest person in our town in
in Rodino.
There's a couple of little kidsin me.

(01:01:45):
So, a lot of 90, 80, 90 yearolds and our neighbors next door
at 90 going up and down thestairs every day.
They just keep vital, they wakeup and stuff to do you know.
So they're gone.
That's great.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
They're awake they're alive for their family.
Their family is so powerful,really holds everybody together,
it's wonderful sounds lovely.
Yeah, bucket list okay, greatanytime jamie, I'll remember you
, just thanks.
Yeah, I'd love to have you uh,it'd be so much fun to.
It just sounds wonderful.
I'm definitely oh yeah and thenum social channels.
Obviously your book's comingout.

(01:02:23):
You sent me some links.
We'll put those all in the inthe in the notes um, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah, I mean you can google on amazon.
Pinch me you have to put myname in because there's a couple
other pinch me's over the last10 years.
But um, I love, I lovesubscribers to substack if you
guys want to subscribe thatwould be it's called letters
from a 300 year old italianfarmhouse and it's.
I'm now officially in sanfrancisco, so I'm going to have
to come clean and let them knowI'm here.

(01:02:48):
For the last two weeks I'vebeen sort of using old, old um
letters that are, uh, had beendone before.
But yeah, I will be back therein march and they tend to be
from literally from my farmhouse.
So um I'd love to havefollowers.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
That would be great so it's on what platform that,
if you go?

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
to substack and and just ask for letters from a 300
year old italian farmhouse, ormy name, barbara Boyle, and you
can subscribe and it's free, sowhy wouldn't you?
And then, once a week we getevery other week you'll get an
email from me with just a twominute story and some photos,
and we're not connected withFacebook or any of those, so you
don't get, you know, you're notoverloaded with ads.

(01:03:30):
There are no ads connected toit.
Oh nice, it's just like sendingyou an email.
It's pretty nice.
It's a nice platform.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Oh, very good, Absolutely Okay.
Well, thank you so much.
I'm so glad, thank you, we'reable to host you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Lovely ladies.
I've enjoyed meeting you andlots of fun to talk to.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Absolutely you too.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wonderful story and journey
in life.
It sounds beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
You know you can't help share it I probably
shouldn't, because there'll bemore tours someday but it's
worth it.
It's so special.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Absolutely Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Well, have a wonderful weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Enjoy this great weather.
I know we had rain yesterday,but it's nice today.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I'm ready.
That sounds great.
Thank you you too.
Nice meeting both of you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Nice to meet you.
See you in Piemonte.
Sounds good.
Bye, buongiorno, arrivederci,arrivederci.
That's right, there we go.
Thank you for the correction,bye, bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the podcast, canyou please take a second and do
a quick follow of the show andrate us in your podcast app, and

(01:04:30):
if you have a minute, we wouldreally appreciate a review.
Following and rating is thebest way to support us.
If you're on Instagram, let'sconnect.
We're at where next podcast.
Thanks again.