November 28, 2024 • 34 mins
Sara Taylor Oliver is a licensed clinical social worker and a yoga instructor. This episode is part one of two where we discuss how to get started in therapy and how to get the most out of the time you spend going.
In this episode Sara tells us how to find a therapist, how to know when therapy is working for you, when to switch therapists, along with some other helpful topics. Be sure to watch part 2 for the full conversation and more info on modalities and what works best for different personalities.
If you're not new to therapy share this episode with your friends or loved ones who are ready to start figuring it all out.
If you are finding value in this podcast leave a 5 star review and comment below!
You can follow me (Kristen Russell, LMT) via instagram at https://www.instagram.com/sakalyamassage/
You can email me at kristen@sakalyamassage.com
To find a therapist check out Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen (00:00):
I'm Kristen Russell, and this is The Wholly Empowered
Podcast, where we dive into allthings holistic healing and open
our minds, hearts, and paradigmsto new ideas so we can live our
most empowered, healthy, joyfullives.
I wanted to give a little introthis time because this episode
and the next episode are a partone and two of a conversation
(00:24):
that I had with my friend SarahTaylor Oliver, who is a talk
therapist and a yoga instructor.
And we are going over kind ofthe basics of getting started in
therapy and diving deeper intohow to get the most out of your
therapy sessions, how to figureout what modalities might be of
use to you.
So in part one, we're going overhow to find a therapist, how to
(00:51):
know if therapy is working foryou, when to switch therapists,
any questions you might have ifyou're just starting in therapy.
Or if you're trying to just getthe most out of therapy and
you're not sure, I feel likethis is a great episode for you.
I'll talk a little bit aboutpart two at the beginning of
that episode as well.
So I hope you enjoy okay.
(01:12):
We are here with Sara TaylorOliver, who is a really good
friend of mine.
She is a licensed clinicalsocial worker and a yoga
instructor and just full ofwisdom and We're going to talk
to her a little bit about,therapy and where to, where to
start with therapy.
So Sarah, do you want to justintroduce yourself a little bit
(01:33):
more in depth and tell us aboutyou?
Yeah,
Sara (01:35):
absolutely.
Okay.
So first of all, so lovely, solovely to be doing this.
It's so fun.
I love talking about wellnessand mental health.
And so I've been in the fieldfor about five years.
I am one of those people wheremy career definitely found me.
And I had like a lovely long andwindy time finding where I fit,
(01:59):
but I really love what I doright now.
I'm in private practice.
So that means that I just workout of my home.
I do a lot of zoom visits.
I also on the side work with aminor league baseball team for
the Cubs.
And I don't know, I've just hadsome really fun.
jobs, therapy jobs.
I was in community mental healthfor a while.
(02:20):
I was a school social worker andworked with a lot of Latino
families.
I've worked for family servicesfor the church.
So yeah, it's good stuff.
I love it.
I love my job.
Kristen (02:34):
Yeah.
Lots of, lots of breadth there.
So getting started kind of thegoal I think today is just to
help people who are, lookinginto therapy, or haven't, just
haven't been, or maybe you'vebeen going and you're just like,
I don't know if I'm doing thisright, or something.
Um, just helping people knowwhere to go to find a therapist,
(02:56):
what to look for when you'relooking for a therapist, and
just all the things around howto get started, and I don't know
that there's a right way to doit, but how to just like make
the most of it, of therapy, talktherapy.
Absolutely.
So where would Where would youtell people to find a thera
Like, if you're looking for atherapist, where do you go to
(03:17):
find a therapist?
Sara (03:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So to be honest, there's so manyways you can do this, but I, I
would say one super foolproofway is going through your
insurance.
If you have insurance, call yourcompany, ask them for a list of
providers.
Just say, hey, give me everyonethat I could possibly go to for
therapy.
Um, that will give you a placethat you can start.
(03:41):
You can call maybe five, six,seven, eight, nine, ten, However
many therapists you want, askfor a free 15 minute
consultation on the phone.
Just see, feel it out, see whatit feels like.
So that's one way.
If, if you want to search atherapist in a more specific
manner, you might use thewebsite Psychology Today, just
(04:02):
psychologytoday.
com.
it's basically this hugelisting.
that therapists will put aprofile on.
So you can read all about them.
You can see what sort of therapythey do, what their experience
is like.
they might even have a littlelike video profile so you can
just see their vibes and youknow what they're like, but
that's another really good wayto find someone.
Kristen (04:24):
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
I didn't even know psychologytoday was a thing until like
recently.
I was like, what?
That's so helpful.
And, the consults, that wasanother thing cause I think it's
so intimidating to start.
And you're like, do I have tojust go to like, that's
expensive and that's timeconsuming and exhausting to just
go and like try therapy with abunch of people.
Sara (04:47):
Always ask for a consult, man.
Cause most people will do that.
And if they don't, I'm like.
That's weird.
You should.
Kristen (04:53):
Yeah.
okay.
And then How do you prepare fortherapy?
Or how do you like, be intherapy?
Should you go I know that wassomething I was concerned about
when I was starting, like, do Ineed to have Do I need to be
prepared in some way and havelike a list or a goal?
Or do I just go and we just talkand whatever happens, happens?
Like, how do you how do younavigate that as the client?
Sara (05:15):
Yeah.
Well let me tell you this.
So the very first time that youmeet with someone, it's, it's
going to be called anassessment.
And in that session, it's reallyjust a lot of information
gathering.
And so, you know, if you thinkabout why you want to go, like,
(05:36):
why, why am I interested indoing this?
What am I hoping to get out ofit?
that can be really helpful ifyou can articulate that so that
in that first session, you cansay like, I'm really hoping for
this or like, do you do this?
Can you help me with this?
Like, what am I, where do Istart?
some people don't get around tothat for a couple of sessions,
which is absolutely fine.
(05:57):
But if you, man, if you canjournal before you go, if you
could just kind of talk with afriend or someone you trust
about how to, describe whatyou've been experiencing, that
can also be really, reallyhelpful to get you started on
the right foot with yourtherapist.
So kind of having.
Yeah, kind of a goal in mind isjust good, but yeah, and chances
(06:21):
are, um, you know, once you getin there, they're going to start
pointing out things and you'relike,
Audio Only - All Participan (06:26):
Oh,
Sara (06:27):
I wasn't thinking about it that way.
Right.
But, but, but it's helpful foryou to have at least a frame of
mind, like some sort of frame tostart with so that they can help
mold.
It can help start moving thingsfor you.
Kristen (06:39):
And it sounds obvious, but then like, I know with my
therapist that I've gone to,there have been times where I
just go in and we just chat andI'm like, okay, I kind of want
to talk about this.
And, but then there've beentimes where I'm like, okay, I
want to do this kind of therapyon this thing.
And she's like, Oh, like sheseems so relieved.
I'm so glad you have a target.
I'm like, Oh, maybe that's thebest way.
(07:02):
I don't know.
Sara (07:03):
I think that's a really good way, and it is easier, I'll
say this, it is easier on thetherapist, in some ways, if you
are self aware enough toidentify, I have these three
things, and I've noticed thatthey're, they're a thing for me.
What do we do about it?
Kristen (07:17):
And then you as the therapist, where do you start
with a client?
Sara (07:22):
I think it's so fascinating because, You know,
you do this assessment right,and the way that most of us are
trained, just a little bitdepending on your licensure, but
most people doing talk therapyare trained to do what's called
a biopsychosocial.
That means that I am going toreally zone in on what are the
(07:44):
biological things going on, bothgood and bad.
What are the psychologicalsymptoms that this person is
experiencing and then socially,like what does their world look
like?
And I also really like to add tothat spiritual to do a spiritual
assessment, almost like, doesthis person have any belief
system?
(08:04):
Do they have any like spiritualgifts or talents that they rely
on?
Or like maybe they have aspiritual community or a leader
that they believe in or areligion that they follow or
something.
So really I, when I am assessingsomeone, I am looking at that
biopsychosocial spiritual andI'm just gathering, gathering in
the back of my head.
(08:25):
I'm just thinking, Hmm, I'm kindof puzzle piecing together and
saying, Oh, where, Where are welooking for maybe some
difficulty or dysfunction?
Where might the person become?
emotional even?
Or where might they kind of havea hard time going to a certain
area?
That's sometimes how I know, oh,we're going to need to go there.
(08:46):
We're going to need to startthere.
Kristen (08:48):
So is that mostly like on a first visit, do you feel
like you're pulling from thatthe most, or is it just all
throughout with your clients?
just constantly assessing those,the psychosocial,
Sara (09:02):
spiritual, all of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I would say the assessmentis big, right?
Because it's, it's like yourfirst, your first time, with the
both of you almost testing eachother out, like you're testing
out your interactions back andforth.
But you're right.
You're really right.
It's a constant assessment everysingle time you're meeting
together, of noticing what'shappening, what's, what's being
(09:25):
said, what's not being said,feeling out, you know.
What's going on for this person?
Kristen (09:31):
Kind of, not reading between the lines, but kind of.
Sara (09:34):
Oh yeah, there's a lot of that.
Kristen (09:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
Yeah, what, what do you feellike are the most common, I
don't want to say issues, butissues that people come to you
for, that people are dealingwith?
Sara (09:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So if you want me to talkspecifically about me, I think
you'll find that some peoplewe're all, we all have like
unique personalities andsensitivities and sensibilities.
And so like some people willfind that they're drawn to like
(10:11):
a certain type of, of therapist.
And it's funny because I, I tendto get people that are highly
creative and highly anxious.
I see a lot of people that arenavigating anxiety and,
uncertainty with the world.
A lot of people that haveexperienced some sort of trauma
(10:36):
and that it's reallycontributing to that increased
amount of anxiety.
Also, I mean, a lot of likerelationship distress, right?
Like people really wanting tocome in and talk about their
families and their siblings andtheir parents and their spouses.
Right.
(10:57):
I get a lot of highly sensitiveindividuals to that term, like
highly sensitive person.
If you've heard that before, Iget a lot of working with people
on How in the world do I carefor myself when I'm so attuned
to everything that's happeningall the time?
So that those, those are like mypeople that, that tend to come
(11:18):
to me.
Kristen (11:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I guess we'll get intohighly sensitive later.
I think we'll cover some more inbroad topics.
Cause I want to cover some, somesurface, not surface, but like
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
Some simpler beginning things.
We'll deep dive a little.
It's just like, yeah.
Foundational concepts, right?
But, yes.
(11:41):
Okay, I have, I have a questionso I noticed kind of a pattern.
Um, and I, I feel like it's,it's very popular to go to
therapy, right?
Like on the regular and it seemslike a lot of people will go
every single week.
And, I noticed sometimes itseems like people are, they're
(12:02):
going, but they're not makingtons of progress.
And it's just kind of like, Ijust go.
And I'm wondering as far aslike, if that's just a comfort
to them, maybe that's great, butdo you, should we be aiming for,
we want to make this amount ofprogress in this amount of time,
or, you know, how do we navigatethat?
(12:25):
And like, would it be more idealif we leaned more on our
community or if we had healthierfamily systems and community
support systems where peoplecould lean into that a little
bit more and go to therapy whenit's, when they're going through
something more extreme or justthoughts on like balancing that
and what would be ideal or whatmaybe if something needs to
(12:49):
change or I don't know.
Any thoughts you have on that?
That's really, that's a lot.
That's a big
Sara (12:53):
question.
So I think that's reallyinteresting because I've thought
a lot about this.
This idea of therapy being forthe everyman, right?
Everyone having their owntherapist, everyone wanting
their own therapist, and alsothis idea that there's a
shortage of mental healththerapists, right?
(13:15):
That people are always sayingthat, like, ah, there's not
enough people, like, how are wesupposed to help these kids in
schools, right?
Like, that's a big, that's a hottopic, is, there's not enough
mental health professionals,and, and what are we supposed to
do about that?
And I do think it's really,really important It's
interesting to consider that theframework that we're very used
to in like 2024, 2025 is thisidea that, therapy is like the
(13:39):
gold standard for healing, thatpretty much anyone can go to
therapy and get something out ofit.
And if you just go to therapy,you'll be fine.
Right?
And I find that like that a lotof the burden of society's
issues almost seems to fall onthe therapy world, which is
really interesting to me becauseTherapy also, we also actually
(14:04):
have things we can do to help,right?
Like we have good interventionsfor people.
We have all this stuff, but I dothink that we've gotten a little
bit out of balance again, withthe way we've thought about
this, because like you weresaying, is the evidence of all
this mental health and imbalancein the other parts of our
society, right?
What are we missing out on interms of our spirituality and,
(14:25):
Our communities and our familiesthat is that we're not being
given that we're not providingfor ourselves that is causing us
to like run to this almost likesacred person to give us all the
answers.
It's an interesting thing tothink about and I personally am
one of the, maybe I'm a littlebit odd in this way and that
(14:48):
when when someone comes to me.
And it's like, Oh man, I reallyneed to do therapy.
I'm like, Oh, okay.
Like you should, you should dothat.
But like, what other, what othersupports do you have?
Like, what are you alreadydoing?
Right, like I hope you don'thave to see me your whole life
because that's a lot for me andthat's a lot for you.
That's a lot of money for you.
You don't need to do that.
(15:08):
Like let's, and so almost toyour other thought too of like,
should we be making progress?
How do we make progress?
Like what's the timeline here?
I really do think that Again,we've been kind of socialized to
think like, Oh, I just, I justgo and I do this for forever.
And it's this like flowing thingthat happens and that's okay.
It can be that way, but I lovethe idea of saying, I'm going to
(15:33):
go, I'm going to try this out.
I'm going to try this out forlike a year.
And I am really going to focuson this with the hope that I'm
going to make it to a certainpoint where I feel like I have
more stability.
I have enough stability that Ican go off on my own and I can
do it if I could tune up when Ineed to.
(15:55):
Thoughts?
Kristen (15:56):
Right?
Yeah.
that seems like a healthy way toapproach it, where it's like,
I'm gonna go as much as I needto until I get to a point where
I'm feeling like I just, yeah,like the tune up scenario, I
guess.
I think it's so great that we'vemade a shift into being so aware
of our mental health and beingkind of self sufficient in a way
(16:19):
where we're like, Oh, we havethese resources we can go to and
get help if we need to, like,that's wonderful.
And like, so good that we cango.
every week if we want to.
But yeah, it's like, where do wefind the balance where it's
like, our communities are now ina good place.
And maybe like everyone going totherapy a lot and getting really
(16:41):
really solid will like get usthere where it's just like, oh,
now we're all doing okay and wecan support each other and be
healthy and we just like, youknow, when things come up we can
go and get extra help.
I feel like that might be like,I don't know, not that I'm like
saying we'd have it figured outfor all of society, but that's
like, that seems like a nicethought to me.
That seems like a good, a goodgoal.
Sara (17:04):
Yeah.
And I think maybe that's whatpeople are hoping for, which
again, I think is a good thing.
And I think, You know, that's avirtuous way for us to think
about it.
Right.
and in reality too, like beingon the other end, it is
interesting because I can tellwhen people come to me, many
(17:25):
people come to me and they'rereally, they're in a very
desperate places, right?
It's a very vulnerable place tobe, to sit down and someone and
be like, I'm falling apart and Idon't even know where to start.
Right.
I do feel the weight of peoplecoming to me with.
The world on their shoulders andbeing like, how, like help.
(17:47):
What am, what am I supposed todo here?
I haven't, I have no idea.
I'm like losing my crap.
And that is heavy.
It is heavy.
And I help where I can.
And I also try to help peoplerealize that their own agency is
extremely important in theprocess and that it really isn't
(18:07):
me.
I can be a really good guide andwe can do some really good stuff
in therapy, but there's a lotof, uh, a lot of it.
You have to take on with, again,with your own agency, with your
own free will and decide I ammoving towards health.
I'm moving towards positivityand wellness in my life.
(18:29):
And just even making that choiceas you go to therapy and saying,
I'm going to be accountable forwho I am and who I'm becoming
makes such a big difference inthe therapy experience.
Kristen (18:39):
That makes a lot of sense, because I know with some
of the other therapies that I'vedone that are more, like
emotional release, spiritual,often just saying, like,
pinpointing the thing that'sYeah.
the root cause or that'sbothering you and speaking it
(19:00):
out loud is half the battle.
And so I feel like that applies.
It's like, there's crossoverswhere it's like, we're already
processing this, just talkingabout it.
And so I feel like that's, Ifeel like that's part of talk
therapy, like, of course, but,but it's, yeah, it's like
helping people just recognizeand, um, speak it out loud and
(19:22):
take, I don't want to say takeaccountability, but like, like
you were just saying, likerealizing they have agency.
Yeah.
And empowering them.
Is that kind of?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Sara (19:34):
100%.
Kristen (19:35):
Yeah.
along with that, just going totherapy, figuring out where
you're at, how much you need tocome, you know, all of that.
how do you know when it's timeto switch therapists?
Like I feel like sometimes youkind of run your course with one
and it's maybe it's not feelingright or it's not, it's just
feeling like it's not a good fitor maybe they've done everything
(19:56):
they can do for you.
How do you know?
When to switch.
Sara (20:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, number one, I think ittakes like a really mature
therapist to say, Hey, look,look at everything you've done.
Do you know how while you'redoing, you should, you can
consider termination.
Termination sounds weird.
Right.
But that's the, that's thephrase we use.
Uh, I don't know that thathappens a lot actually in
(20:21):
therapy.
I think it just becomes thislike perpetual thing, but I
think therapists that are ableto say, look, look what you've
done.
Look where you were when youstarted from where we are now.
You're doing excellent.
Let's take a break.
Right.
But you being able to do that asequally as important, right?
You showing up and saying like,you know what?
(20:41):
I like this, but there'ssomething that it's not right.
And, uh, I'm going to pause.
And again, it doesn't have to belike this whole formal of
conversation.
Sometimes, sometimes you juststop going, which is totally
fine.
And that, you know, that's yourchoice in of itself.
But I do think that.
Being discerning about yourtime.
(21:02):
And then most people are thisway.
It's like, if it's not worthyour time, if you're not
receiving a lot of benefit outof it, it's okay for you to,
decide to go see someone elsefor, for you to say, Hey, I
don't like what we're doing.
It's not, I don't feel like thisis working for me.
Can we try something else?
Your therapist will love that.
Actually, I will.
I hope they love that.
(21:22):
I appreciate when people tell melike, you know, okay, like that
was cool, but don't know aboutthat.
Right.
It really, really can help yourprocess move along.
And it can help you weed outagain.
If someone's like, that's allI've got for you.
It's like, okay, probably not,probably not the right fit
anymore.
Let's, let's move on.
You know?
Kristen (21:43):
Yeah, yeah.
How long do you feel like it's agood amount of time to give,
like, especially starting outwith a new therapist, how long
until you're like, okay, I needto do something else?
And how long with a, like,someone you've been going to and
it's been working?
Sara (21:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I just feel like that's sopersonal.
However, I do feel like, youknow, if you've never had the
therapy experience before, like,if you've never done it and
you're a first timer, You know,I would, I would go to someone
for like maybe a good five orsix sessions to just, to just
(22:21):
like really knock it out.
Unless again, use your owndiscernment.
If you go once and you're like.
There is no flow here.
No flow.
Don't waste your time.
But if you're like, Oh, there'sa little bit of flow here.
I think there's something here.
Give yourself a good five or sixsessions.
That's actually six sessions isconsidered a short term therapy
length.
So try that.
(22:42):
See how that goes for you.
And then, you know, you can tellyour therapist, I want to do six
sessions and then see wherewe're at.
They'll be like, okay, great.
Perfect.
Let's go from there.
You're, you're allowed to askfor that and give those sort of
stipulations for people as well.
Kristen (22:56):
Yeah.
So tell me a little bit aboutthe client therapist
relationship and how that shouldwork.
But I know we're kind of talkingabout part of that, but yes, in
a more general sense,
Sara (23:08):
yeah, so I think this is really interesting because this
is something that When Ireceived my training, you know,
we talked a lot about this ideathat you need to build a
therapeutic relationship withyour client.
And so, you know, sometimes whenI'm meeting with someone and we
actually just for part of oursession, we're just connecting
(23:31):
and talking about.
Like, oh, did you watch, youknow that last episode of
whatever?
Oh yeah, I did too.
It was, it was funny, wasn't it?
Like, you know, we're justtalking, kind of shooting the
breeze a little bit.
that's build, that's calledbuilding the therapeutic
relationship.
And so it's not a bad thing ifin therapy you actually have
something in common with them,and you can connect a little bit
(23:53):
about that so that you feel safeand secure.
Like the two of you were cooltogether, right?
It's like we're cool, like.
We like each other.
You're like kind of my therapistfriend, right?
Like it's okay to have thosefeelings.
also you, you want to watch outfor an interesting dynamic
where.
I think sometimes because you,you have so much closeness and
intimacy with this person,sometimes like it can get really
(24:15):
intense and it's like, oh mygosh, like it's almost like a,
it can feel like a romanticpartner, or it can even feel
like a soulmate a little bit,like a soul sister or brother.
because sometimes like you'regetting some of your needs met
that your spouse isn't meeting,your friends aren't meeting and
you just, you know, And it canbe kind of an interesting space
(24:35):
because like you both notice itand you're both like bonding,
but you're like, but this islike, this is a professional
relationship, right?
So you, you hit some interestingthings in therapy sometimes.
And I would say, number one,like, don't be afraid of the
friendliness and just keep aneye out for like, if you start
feeling like a lot of adoration,that's like, or like love or
(24:58):
whatever.
Like it's very, it's very normalto experience that.
If it ever crossed over intolike a weird zone where it was
like romantic No, that's a nono, your therapist cannot,
should not ever, ever go there.
You may talk about reallysensitive things, including
like, sexuality, or, orwhatever, but um, but, it really
(25:23):
takes a lot of discernment tolike notice, like, Oh, is this a
helpful, healthy relationship oris there something off about
this?
So I just, I feel like thatneeds to be said in case you
have never heard that before asa client, you know?
Kristen (25:39):
Yeah.
I think that's really helpfulbecause it is so tricky to know
where that boundary is,especially like, I tend to be on
the side of, we got to keep itreally professional and I can't,
you know, we can't cross thatboundary at all.
And so that's helpful to know,like it's okay to shoot the
breeze a little with yourtherapist and just, you know, Be
comfy.
(26:00):
And yeah,
Sara (26:03):
so exactly.
Audio Only - All Particip (26:05):
Yeah,
Sara (26:05):
we love it.
And then that can be really thatcan be a fun part of therapy
too.
It's like sometimes you come inand you're like excited to tell
them something.
And I might be like, Oh my gosh,good for you.
That's so exciting.
Like you went on that date.
I love it.
You know, right?
Like, it can be fun.
Yeah, it can be personal.
Yes, and it's okay.
Yes, it should be a little bitright I think it needs to be.
Kristen (26:28):
Yeah, because how else I mean you're sharing so much
with this person.
So, gotta be a little bit ofthat
Sara (26:35):
right.
Yeah, yeah, just like don't kissyour therapist right like like
that,
Kristen (26:41):
right.
No,
Sara (26:43):
no,
Kristen (26:43):
no.
Oh my gosh.
so, how do you know, how do youknow if therapy is quote unquote
working?
Like maybe we already coveredthis, but because we did talk a
little bit about when to knowwhen to switch and all these
other things, but how do youknow it's like working for you?
(27:05):
You're getting what you need outof it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sara (27:09):
I would say if you feel Stretched, and or challenged.
I think that can be a reallygood sign.
if you feel like you can bestretched, challenged, and
experience a little bit ofdiscomfort, also in a safe
(27:30):
environment, that's a really,really good sign.
So, on the contrary from that,if you Don't feel like you're
getting past, like, what's goingon to day to day, in the day to
day interactions.
If you don't really feel likeyou're getting past so and so
said that this and I did this,it's not going to be as
(27:55):
therapeutic of an experience asmaybe, maybe you're hoping for.
And again, maybe that's whatyou're looking for, in which
case, that's fine.
Some people are like, no, that'sall we needed.
And that's great.
But there are many people I knowthat are really like, no, no,
no, I'm here.
I'm here and I need help.
I need to resolve some of thesepsychological conflicts I have.
(28:17):
And so you're really the onlyone that can say whether it's
working or not, right?
I might think it's working on myend, but you might be like, it's
not working.
And so just listen to that, tothat inner voice.
Kristen (28:30):
Yeah.
Maybe assess your goals and whyyou're there and just check in
at that five or six week pointmark and say, okay, am I
actually hitting the goals thatI'm wanting?
Sara (28:43):
Yes.
Yes.
And just like a little note onthat too, is that, you know, I
feel like everyone's timing isvery different and it's very
sacred.
And sometimes you show up for along time and you're like, I'm
not getting anywhere.
And like, I also don't wantpeople to feel ashamed about
that and be like, Oh, should Istop?
(29:03):
I'm not making progress.
I'm not doing anything.
If you're having a goodexperience, that's great and
keep going.
And if you feel good about that,then you go for it.
Like, don't, don't stop going totherapy just because Sara's
like, I'm not making, they'renot doing it.
It's not working.
No, no, no, no, no.
Right.
Everyone has their owntimelining.
You just don't know exactly Whattime you need and the patience
(29:27):
that you may need with yourselfas you're doing this, because it
can be, it can take time.
It just, it just does for, formost people.
And so that's another, I don't,I don't want to be too extreme
right there.
There really is like a pendulumhere and it's okay to have some
swing in both directions.
Kristen (29:47):
It's not linear.
Sara (29:48):
It's not linear.
Kristen (29:49):
Yeah.
And, do you have an opinionabout when to go to therapy?
Like as far as, Should you begoing before, like, maintenance?
Like, we were talking about justpeople who go regularly, um, or
wait until you're in the thickof it, or, like, let yourself
process your trauma, whateverhappened, if something big
happens.
I guess I'm talking about in thecontext of something really big.
(30:16):
That you're like going totherapy to work out a big trauma
Sara (30:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I think, again, I think that'sreally, really personal and I
don't think you can do it wrong.
For most people I don't thinkyou can do it wrong if you just
decide what you want to do.
That being said, I do want tolike put up a caveat because
Right.
(30:39):
If there's someone and they'renot able to function in their
life, like really not able tofunction, like I can't get out
of bed.
I'm having suicidal ideation.
I can't do anything right.
That's a different case.
That's like, this person is notstabilized and they need help
immediately.
Right.
So in that case, right, you,you, you don't want to put that
off, but for most people, it'slike, I'm just in a funk, right?
(31:01):
I feel like I'm in a funk and Ifeel like.
You can, you know, you canreally set up that timeline in
whatever way is going to serveyou.
A lot of people, I, I hear thisfrom parents all actually that
are like, Oh my gosh, my kidwent through this thing.
And like, I need to get them intherapy right away.
And I often ask the parentswell, how is your child doing?
(31:21):
And they're like, well, they'refine.
But this thing happened, like,right.
Like I got a divorce and I'mlike, you know, just take a nice
deep breath.
It's okay for you to be thatloving, supportive person.
Like, you don't have to alwaysrun to a therapist right away
just because something happened.
(31:43):
And in fact, use discernment andjudgment because sometimes
there'll just be certaindevelopmental milestones that
someone will need to hit andthat's when it's like, oh, it's
time, right?
Maybe it's like, oh, I'm goinginto pre teenagehood.
I got triggered.
It's time.
Now is the time.
It wouldn't have been helpfulfor me earlier.
(32:04):
But now I can feel that it's theright time.
If that makes sense.
Kristen (32:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And just, it sounds like justusing your intuition is a big,
just one of the biggest thingsto lean on with that.
Sara (32:18):
Yes.
And really like people want tomake us the experts and the
reality is we are not theexperts of your experience.
This is your experience.
You were in the driver's seat.
Again, we can be really goodguides, we can do a lot of
things, but I feel like there'sso much power in you just being
like, this is what I need, orthis is what I want, or this is
(32:38):
what I'm hoping for, right?
Just being able to express thatis so powerful.
Kristen (32:43):
So that's an empowering thought, right?
It's like, ultimately, you getto be in charge and It's not up
to someone else to save you.
It's kind of a, it's kind ofscary, but it's kind of like,
Oh,
Sara (32:58):
yeah, it's not bad news.
Sometimes it's like, Oh, it was,well, there goes 500.
Right?
No.
Right.
But like, but it's true.
And that's also very, it is.
It's powerful to know that youYou can really like steer your
ship.
Kristen (33:16):
Well, I feel like, yeah, it's kind of like you can,
you can learn the skills thatyou need to actually, so you
don't have to pay 500 every orwhatever, you know.
Sara (33:25):
Right?
Yeah.
Like you, if I were to use anymetaphor, I'd be like, you plant
your garden, plant your garden,prepare your soil, cultivate,
you do it.
You can do it.
Kristen (33:39):
That's beautiful.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you are enjoying whollyempowered, share it with that
friend or on your socials, youcan also hit the follow button.
If you want to keep up with thelatest episodes until next time,
stay empowered.
I'm Kristen Russell, and this is The Wholly Empowered
Podcast, where we dive into allthings holistic healing and open
our minds, hearts, and paradigmsto new ideas so we can live our
most empowered, healthy, joyfullives.
I wanted to give a little introthis time because this episode
and the next episode are a partone and two of a conversation
(00:24):
that I had with my friend SarahTaylor Oliver, who is a talk
therapist and a yoga instructor.
And we are going over kind ofthe basics of getting started in
therapy and diving deeper intohow to get the most out of your
therapy sessions, how to figureout what modalities might be of
use to you.
So in part one, we're going overhow to find a therapist, how to
(00:51):
know if therapy is working foryou, when to switch therapists,
any questions you might have ifyou're just starting in therapy.
Or if you're trying to just getthe most out of therapy and
you're not sure, I feel likethis is a great episode for you.
I'll talk a little bit aboutpart two at the beginning of
that episode as well.
So I hope you enjoy okay.
(01:12):
We are here with Sara TaylorOliver, who is a really good
friend of mine.
She is a licensed clinicalsocial worker and a yoga
instructor and just full ofwisdom and We're going to talk
to her a little bit about,therapy and where to, where to
start with therapy.
So Sarah, do you want to justintroduce yourself a little bit
(01:33):
more in depth and tell us aboutyou?
Yeah,
Sara (01:35):
absolutely.
Okay.
So first of all, so lovely, solovely to be doing this.
It's so fun.
I love talking about wellnessand mental health.
And so I've been in the fieldfor about five years.
I am one of those people wheremy career definitely found me.
And I had like a lovely long andwindy time finding where I fit,
(01:59):
but I really love what I doright now.
I'm in private practice.
So that means that I just workout of my home.
I do a lot of zoom visits.
I also on the side work with aminor league baseball team for
the Cubs.
And I don't know, I've just hadsome really fun.
jobs, therapy jobs.
I was in community mental healthfor a while.
(02:20):
I was a school social worker andworked with a lot of Latino
families.
I've worked for family servicesfor the church.
So yeah, it's good stuff.
I love it.
I love my job.
Kristen (02:34):
Yeah.
Lots of, lots of breadth there.
So getting started kind of thegoal I think today is just to
help people who are, lookinginto therapy, or haven't, just
haven't been, or maybe you'vebeen going and you're just like,
I don't know if I'm doing thisright, or something.
Um, just helping people knowwhere to go to find a therapist,
(02:56):
what to look for when you'relooking for a therapist, and
just all the things around howto get started, and I don't know
that there's a right way to doit, but how to just like make
the most of it, of therapy, talktherapy.
Absolutely.
So where would Where would youtell people to find a thera
Like, if you're looking for atherapist, where do you go to
(03:17):
find a therapist?
Sara (03:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So to be honest, there's so manyways you can do this, but I, I
would say one super foolproofway is going through your
insurance.
If you have insurance, call yourcompany, ask them for a list of
providers.
Just say, hey, give me everyonethat I could possibly go to for
therapy.
Um, that will give you a placethat you can start.
(03:41):
You can call maybe five, six,seven, eight, nine, ten, However
many therapists you want, askfor a free 15 minute
consultation on the phone.
Just see, feel it out, see whatit feels like.
So that's one way.
If, if you want to search atherapist in a more specific
manner, you might use thewebsite Psychology Today, just
(04:02):
psychologytoday.
com.
it's basically this hugelisting.
that therapists will put aprofile on.
So you can read all about them.
You can see what sort of therapythey do, what their experience
is like.
they might even have a littlelike video profile so you can
just see their vibes and youknow what they're like, but
that's another really good wayto find someone.
Kristen (04:24):
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
I didn't even know psychologytoday was a thing until like
recently.
I was like, what?
That's so helpful.
And, the consults, that wasanother thing cause I think it's
so intimidating to start.
And you're like, do I have tojust go to like, that's
expensive and that's timeconsuming and exhausting to just
go and like try therapy with abunch of people.
Sara (04:47):
Always ask for a consult, man.
Cause most people will do that.
And if they don't, I'm like.
That's weird.
You should.
Kristen (04:53):
Yeah.
okay.
And then How do you prepare fortherapy?
Or how do you like, be intherapy?
Should you go I know that wassomething I was concerned about
when I was starting, like, do Ineed to have Do I need to be
prepared in some way and havelike a list or a goal?
Or do I just go and we just talkand whatever happens, happens?
Like, how do you how do younavigate that as the client?
Sara (05:15):
Yeah.
Well let me tell you this.
So the very first time that youmeet with someone, it's, it's
going to be called anassessment.
And in that session, it's reallyjust a lot of information
gathering.
And so, you know, if you thinkabout why you want to go, like,
(05:36):
why, why am I interested indoing this?
What am I hoping to get out ofit?
that can be really helpful ifyou can articulate that so that
in that first session, you cansay like, I'm really hoping for
this or like, do you do this?
Can you help me with this?
Like, what am I, where do Istart?
some people don't get around tothat for a couple of sessions,
which is absolutely fine.
(05:57):
But if you, man, if you canjournal before you go, if you
could just kind of talk with afriend or someone you trust
about how to, describe whatyou've been experiencing, that
can also be really, reallyhelpful to get you started on
the right foot with yourtherapist.
So kind of having.
Yeah, kind of a goal in mind isjust good, but yeah, and chances
(06:21):
are, um, you know, once you getin there, they're going to start
pointing out things and you'relike,
Audio Only - All Participan (06:26):
Oh,
Sara (06:27):
I wasn't thinking about it that way.
Right.
But, but, but it's helpful foryou to have at least a frame of
mind, like some sort of frame tostart with so that they can help
mold.
It can help start moving thingsfor you.
Kristen (06:39):
And it sounds obvious, but then like, I know with my
therapist that I've gone to,there have been times where I
just go in and we just chat andI'm like, okay, I kind of want
to talk about this.
And, but then there've beentimes where I'm like, okay, I
want to do this kind of therapyon this thing.
And she's like, Oh, like sheseems so relieved.
I'm so glad you have a target.
I'm like, Oh, maybe that's thebest way.
(07:02):
I don't know.
Sara (07:03):
I think that's a really good way, and it is easier, I'll
say this, it is easier on thetherapist, in some ways, if you
are self aware enough toidentify, I have these three
things, and I've noticed thatthey're, they're a thing for me.
What do we do about it?
Kristen (07:17):
And then you as the therapist, where do you start
with a client?
Sara (07:22):
I think it's so fascinating because, You know,
you do this assessment right,and the way that most of us are
trained, just a little bitdepending on your licensure, but
most people doing talk therapyare trained to do what's called
a biopsychosocial.
That means that I am going toreally zone in on what are the
(07:44):
biological things going on, bothgood and bad.
What are the psychologicalsymptoms that this person is
experiencing and then socially,like what does their world look
like?
And I also really like to add tothat spiritual to do a spiritual
assessment, almost like, doesthis person have any belief
system?
(08:04):
Do they have any like spiritualgifts or talents that they rely
on?
Or like maybe they have aspiritual community or a leader
that they believe in or areligion that they follow or
something.
So really I, when I am assessingsomeone, I am looking at that
biopsychosocial spiritual andI'm just gathering, gathering in
the back of my head.
(08:25):
I'm just thinking, Hmm, I'm kindof puzzle piecing together and
saying, Oh, where, Where are welooking for maybe some
difficulty or dysfunction?
Where might the person become?
emotional even?
Or where might they kind of havea hard time going to a certain
area?
That's sometimes how I know, oh,we're going to need to go there.
(08:46):
We're going to need to startthere.
Kristen (08:48):
So is that mostly like on a first visit, do you feel
like you're pulling from thatthe most, or is it just all
throughout with your clients?
just constantly assessing those,the psychosocial,
Sara (09:02):
spiritual, all of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I would say the assessmentis big, right?
Because it's, it's like yourfirst, your first time, with the
both of you almost testing eachother out, like you're testing
out your interactions back andforth.
But you're right.
You're really right.
It's a constant assessment everysingle time you're meeting
together, of noticing what'shappening, what's, what's being
(09:25):
said, what's not being said,feeling out, you know.
What's going on for this person?
Kristen (09:31):
Kind of, not reading between the lines, but kind of.
Sara (09:34):
Oh yeah, there's a lot of that.
Kristen (09:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
Yeah, what, what do you feellike are the most common, I
don't want to say issues, butissues that people come to you
for, that people are dealingwith?
Sara (09:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So if you want me to talkspecifically about me, I think
you'll find that some peoplewe're all, we all have like
unique personalities andsensitivities and sensibilities.
And so like some people willfind that they're drawn to like
(10:11):
a certain type of, of therapist.
And it's funny because I, I tendto get people that are highly
creative and highly anxious.
I see a lot of people that arenavigating anxiety and,
uncertainty with the world.
A lot of people that haveexperienced some sort of trauma
(10:36):
and that it's reallycontributing to that increased
amount of anxiety.
Also, I mean, a lot of likerelationship distress, right?
Like people really wanting tocome in and talk about their
families and their siblings andtheir parents and their spouses.
Right.
(10:57):
I get a lot of highly sensitiveindividuals to that term, like
highly sensitive person.
If you've heard that before, Iget a lot of working with people
on How in the world do I carefor myself when I'm so attuned
to everything that's happeningall the time?
So that those, those are like mypeople that, that tend to come
(11:18):
to me.
Kristen (11:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I guess we'll get intohighly sensitive later.
I think we'll cover some more inbroad topics.
Cause I want to cover some, somesurface, not surface, but like
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
Some simpler beginning things.
We'll deep dive a little.
It's just like, yeah.
Foundational concepts, right?
But, yes.
(11:41):
Okay, I have, I have a questionso I noticed kind of a pattern.
Um, and I, I feel like it's,it's very popular to go to
therapy, right?
Like on the regular and it seemslike a lot of people will go
every single week.
And, I noticed sometimes itseems like people are, they're
(12:02):
going, but they're not makingtons of progress.
And it's just kind of like, Ijust go.
And I'm wondering as far aslike, if that's just a comfort
to them, maybe that's great, butdo you, should we be aiming for,
we want to make this amount ofprogress in this amount of time,
or, you know, how do we navigatethat?
(12:25):
And like, would it be more idealif we leaned more on our
community or if we had healthierfamily systems and community
support systems where peoplecould lean into that a little
bit more and go to therapy whenit's, when they're going through
something more extreme or justthoughts on like balancing that
and what would be ideal or whatmaybe if something needs to
(12:49):
change or I don't know.
Any thoughts you have on that?
That's really, that's a lot.
That's a big
Sara (12:53):
question.
So I think that's reallyinteresting because I've thought
a lot about this.
This idea of therapy being forthe everyman, right?
Everyone having their owntherapist, everyone wanting
their own therapist, and alsothis idea that there's a
shortage of mental healththerapists, right?
(13:15):
That people are always sayingthat, like, ah, there's not
enough people, like, how are wesupposed to help these kids in
schools, right?
Like, that's a big, that's a hottopic, is, there's not enough
mental health professionals,and, and what are we supposed to
do about that?
And I do think it's really,really important It's
interesting to consider that theframework that we're very used
to in like 2024, 2025 is thisidea that, therapy is like the
(13:39):
gold standard for healing, thatpretty much anyone can go to
therapy and get something out ofit.
And if you just go to therapy,you'll be fine.
Right?
And I find that like that a lotof the burden of society's
issues almost seems to fall onthe therapy world, which is
really interesting to me becauseTherapy also, we also actually
(14:04):
have things we can do to help,right?
Like we have good interventionsfor people.
We have all this stuff, but I dothink that we've gotten a little
bit out of balance again, withthe way we've thought about
this, because like you weresaying, is the evidence of all
this mental health and imbalancein the other parts of our
society, right?
What are we missing out on interms of our spirituality and,
(14:25):
Our communities and our familiesthat is that we're not being
given that we're not providingfor ourselves that is causing us
to like run to this almost likesacred person to give us all the
answers.
It's an interesting thing tothink about and I personally am
one of the, maybe I'm a littlebit odd in this way and that
(14:48):
when when someone comes to me.
And it's like, Oh man, I reallyneed to do therapy.
I'm like, Oh, okay.
Like you should, you should dothat.
But like, what other, what othersupports do you have?
Like, what are you alreadydoing?
Right, like I hope you don'thave to see me your whole life
because that's a lot for me andthat's a lot for you.
That's a lot of money for you.
You don't need to do that.
(15:08):
Like let's, and so almost toyour other thought too of like,
should we be making progress?
How do we make progress?
Like what's the timeline here?
I really do think that Again,we've been kind of socialized to
think like, Oh, I just, I justgo and I do this for forever.
And it's this like flowing thingthat happens and that's okay.
It can be that way, but I lovethe idea of saying, I'm going to
(15:33):
go, I'm going to try this out.
I'm going to try this out forlike a year.
And I am really going to focuson this with the hope that I'm
going to make it to a certainpoint where I feel like I have
more stability.
I have enough stability that Ican go off on my own and I can
do it if I could tune up when Ineed to.
(15:55):
Thoughts?
Kristen (15:56):
Right?
Yeah.
that seems like a healthy way toapproach it, where it's like,
I'm gonna go as much as I needto until I get to a point where
I'm feeling like I just, yeah,like the tune up scenario, I
guess.
I think it's so great that we'vemade a shift into being so aware
of our mental health and beingkind of self sufficient in a way
(16:19):
where we're like, Oh, we havethese resources we can go to and
get help if we need to, like,that's wonderful.
And like, so good that we cango.
every week if we want to.
But yeah, it's like, where do wefind the balance where it's
like, our communities are now ina good place.
And maybe like everyone going totherapy a lot and getting really
(16:41):
really solid will like get usthere where it's just like, oh,
now we're all doing okay and wecan support each other and be
healthy and we just like, youknow, when things come up we can
go and get extra help.
I feel like that might be like,I don't know, not that I'm like
saying we'd have it figured outfor all of society, but that's
like, that seems like a nicethought to me.
That seems like a good, a goodgoal.
Sara (17:04):
Yeah.
And I think maybe that's whatpeople are hoping for, which
again, I think is a good thing.
And I think, You know, that's avirtuous way for us to think
about it.
Right.
and in reality too, like beingon the other end, it is
interesting because I can tellwhen people come to me, many
(17:25):
people come to me and they'rereally, they're in a very
desperate places, right?
It's a very vulnerable place tobe, to sit down and someone and
be like, I'm falling apart and Idon't even know where to start.
Right.
I do feel the weight of peoplecoming to me with.
The world on their shoulders andbeing like, how, like help.
(17:47):
What am, what am I supposed todo here?
I haven't, I have no idea.
I'm like losing my crap.
And that is heavy.
It is heavy.
And I help where I can.
And I also try to help peoplerealize that their own agency is
extremely important in theprocess and that it really isn't
(18:07):
me.
I can be a really good guide andwe can do some really good stuff
in therapy, but there's a lotof, uh, a lot of it.
You have to take on with, again,with your own agency, with your
own free will and decide I ammoving towards health.
I'm moving towards positivityand wellness in my life.
(18:29):
And just even making that choiceas you go to therapy and saying,
I'm going to be accountable forwho I am and who I'm becoming
makes such a big difference inthe therapy experience.
Kristen (18:39):
That makes a lot of sense, because I know with some
of the other therapies that I'vedone that are more, like
emotional release, spiritual,often just saying, like,
pinpointing the thing that'sYeah.
the root cause or that'sbothering you and speaking it
(19:00):
out loud is half the battle.
And so I feel like that applies.
It's like, there's crossoverswhere it's like, we're already
processing this, just talkingabout it.
And so I feel like that's, Ifeel like that's part of talk
therapy, like, of course, but,but it's, yeah, it's like
helping people just recognizeand, um, speak it out loud and
(19:22):
take, I don't want to say takeaccountability, but like, like
you were just saying, likerealizing they have agency.
Yeah.
And empowering them.
Is that kind of?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Sara (19:34):
100%.
Kristen (19:35):
Yeah.
along with that, just going totherapy, figuring out where
you're at, how much you need tocome, you know, all of that.
how do you know when it's timeto switch therapists?
Like I feel like sometimes youkind of run your course with one
and it's maybe it's not feelingright or it's not, it's just
feeling like it's not a good fitor maybe they've done everything
(19:56):
they can do for you.
How do you know?
When to switch.
Sara (20:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, number one, I think ittakes like a really mature
therapist to say, Hey, look,look at everything you've done.
Do you know how while you'redoing, you should, you can
consider termination.
Termination sounds weird.
Right.
But that's the, that's thephrase we use.
Uh, I don't know that thathappens a lot actually in
(20:21):
therapy.
I think it just becomes thislike perpetual thing, but I
think therapists that are ableto say, look, look what you've
done.
Look where you were when youstarted from where we are now.
You're doing excellent.
Let's take a break.
Right.
But you being able to do that asequally as important, right?
You showing up and saying like,you know what?
(20:41):
I like this, but there'ssomething that it's not right.
And, uh, I'm going to pause.
And again, it doesn't have to belike this whole formal of
conversation.
Sometimes, sometimes you juststop going, which is totally
fine.
And that, you know, that's yourchoice in of itself.
But I do think that.
Being discerning about yourtime.
(21:02):
And then most people are thisway.
It's like, if it's not worthyour time, if you're not
receiving a lot of benefit outof it, it's okay for you to,
decide to go see someone elsefor, for you to say, Hey, I
don't like what we're doing.
It's not, I don't feel like thisis working for me.
Can we try something else?
Your therapist will love that.
Actually, I will.
I hope they love that.
(21:22):
I appreciate when people tell melike, you know, okay, like that
was cool, but don't know aboutthat.
Right.
It really, really can help yourprocess move along.
And it can help you weed outagain.
If someone's like, that's allI've got for you.
It's like, okay, probably not,probably not the right fit
anymore.
Let's, let's move on.
You know?
Kristen (21:43):
Yeah, yeah.
How long do you feel like it's agood amount of time to give,
like, especially starting outwith a new therapist, how long
until you're like, okay, I needto do something else?
And how long with a, like,someone you've been going to and
it's been working?
Sara (21:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I just feel like that's sopersonal.
However, I do feel like, youknow, if you've never had the
therapy experience before, like,if you've never done it and
you're a first timer, You know,I would, I would go to someone
for like maybe a good five orsix sessions to just, to just
(22:21):
like really knock it out.
Unless again, use your owndiscernment.
If you go once and you're like.
There is no flow here.
No flow.
Don't waste your time.
But if you're like, Oh, there'sa little bit of flow here.
I think there's something here.
Give yourself a good five or sixsessions.
That's actually six sessions isconsidered a short term therapy
length.
So try that.
(22:42):
See how that goes for you.
And then, you know, you can tellyour therapist, I want to do six
sessions and then see wherewe're at.
They'll be like, okay, great.
Perfect.
Let's go from there.
You're, you're allowed to askfor that and give those sort of
stipulations for people as well.
Kristen (22:56):
Yeah.
So tell me a little bit aboutthe client therapist
relationship and how that shouldwork.
But I know we're kind of talkingabout part of that, but yes, in
a more general sense,
Sara (23:08):
yeah, so I think this is really interesting because this
is something that When Ireceived my training, you know,
we talked a lot about this ideathat you need to build a
therapeutic relationship withyour client.
And so, you know, sometimes whenI'm meeting with someone and we
actually just for part of oursession, we're just connecting
(23:31):
and talking about.
Like, oh, did you watch, youknow that last episode of
whatever?
Oh yeah, I did too.
It was, it was funny, wasn't it?
Like, you know, we're justtalking, kind of shooting the
breeze a little bit.
that's build, that's calledbuilding the therapeutic
relationship.
And so it's not a bad thing ifin therapy you actually have
something in common with them,and you can connect a little bit
(23:53):
about that so that you feel safeand secure.
Like the two of you were cooltogether, right?
It's like we're cool, like.
We like each other.
You're like kind of my therapistfriend, right?
Like it's okay to have thosefeelings.
also you, you want to watch outfor an interesting dynamic
where.
I think sometimes because you,you have so much closeness and
intimacy with this person,sometimes like it can get really
(24:15):
intense and it's like, oh mygosh, like it's almost like a,
it can feel like a romanticpartner, or it can even feel
like a soulmate a little bit,like a soul sister or brother.
because sometimes like you'regetting some of your needs met
that your spouse isn't meeting,your friends aren't meeting and
you just, you know, And it canbe kind of an interesting space
(24:35):
because like you both notice itand you're both like bonding,
but you're like, but this islike, this is a professional
relationship, right?
So you, you hit some interestingthings in therapy sometimes.
And I would say, number one,like, don't be afraid of the
friendliness and just keep aneye out for like, if you start
feeling like a lot of adoration,that's like, or like love or
(24:58):
whatever.
Like it's very, it's very normalto experience that.
If it ever crossed over intolike a weird zone where it was
like romantic No, that's a nono, your therapist cannot,
should not ever, ever go there.
You may talk about reallysensitive things, including
like, sexuality, or, orwhatever, but um, but, it really
(25:23):
takes a lot of discernment tolike notice, like, Oh, is this a
helpful, healthy relationship oris there something off about
this?
So I just, I feel like thatneeds to be said in case you
have never heard that before asa client, you know?
Kristen (25:39):
Yeah.
I think that's really helpfulbecause it is so tricky to know
where that boundary is,especially like, I tend to be on
the side of, we got to keep itreally professional and I can't,
you know, we can't cross thatboundary at all.
And so that's helpful to know,like it's okay to shoot the
breeze a little with yourtherapist and just, you know, Be
comfy.
(26:00):
And yeah,
Sara (26:03):
so exactly.
Audio Only - All Particip (26:05):
Yeah,
Sara (26:05):
we love it.
And then that can be really thatcan be a fun part of therapy
too.
It's like sometimes you come inand you're like excited to tell
them something.
And I might be like, Oh my gosh,good for you.
That's so exciting.
Like you went on that date.
I love it.
You know, right?
Like, it can be fun.
Yeah, it can be personal.
Yes, and it's okay.
Yes, it should be a little bitright I think it needs to be.
Kristen (26:28):
Yeah, because how else I mean you're sharing so much
with this person.
So, gotta be a little bit ofthat
Sara (26:35):
right.
Yeah, yeah, just like don't kissyour therapist right like like
that,
Kristen (26:41):
right.
No,
Sara (26:43):
no,
Kristen (26:43):
no.
Oh my gosh.
so, how do you know, how do youknow if therapy is quote unquote
working?
Like maybe we already coveredthis, but because we did talk a
little bit about when to knowwhen to switch and all these
other things, but how do youknow it's like working for you?
(27:05):
You're getting what you need outof it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sara (27:09):
I would say if you feel Stretched, and or challenged.
I think that can be a reallygood sign.
if you feel like you can bestretched, challenged, and
experience a little bit ofdiscomfort, also in a safe
(27:30):
environment, that's a really,really good sign.
So, on the contrary from that,if you Don't feel like you're
getting past, like, what's goingon to day to day, in the day to
day interactions.
If you don't really feel likeyou're getting past so and so
said that this and I did this,it's not going to be as
(27:55):
therapeutic of an experience asmaybe, maybe you're hoping for.
And again, maybe that's whatyou're looking for, in which
case, that's fine.
Some people are like, no, that'sall we needed.
And that's great.
But there are many people I knowthat are really like, no, no,
no, I'm here.
I'm here and I need help.
I need to resolve some of thesepsychological conflicts I have.
(28:17):
And so you're really the onlyone that can say whether it's
working or not, right?
I might think it's working on myend, but you might be like, it's
not working.
And so just listen to that, tothat inner voice.
Kristen (28:30):
Yeah.
Maybe assess your goals and whyyou're there and just check in
at that five or six week pointmark and say, okay, am I
actually hitting the goals thatI'm wanting?
Sara (28:43):
Yes.
Yes.
And just like a little note onthat too, is that, you know, I
feel like everyone's timing isvery different and it's very
sacred.
And sometimes you show up for along time and you're like, I'm
not getting anywhere.
And like, I also don't wantpeople to feel ashamed about
that and be like, Oh, should Istop?
(29:03):
I'm not making progress.
I'm not doing anything.
If you're having a goodexperience, that's great and
keep going.
And if you feel good about that,then you go for it.
Like, don't, don't stop going totherapy just because Sara's
like, I'm not making, they'renot doing it.
It's not working.
No, no, no, no, no.
Right.
Everyone has their owntimelining.
You just don't know exactly Whattime you need and the patience
(29:27):
that you may need with yourselfas you're doing this, because it
can be, it can take time.
It just, it just does for, formost people.
And so that's another, I don't,I don't want to be too extreme
right there.
There really is like a pendulumhere and it's okay to have some
swing in both directions.
Kristen (29:47):
It's not linear.
Sara (29:48):
It's not linear.
Kristen (29:49):
Yeah.
And, do you have an opinionabout when to go to therapy?
Like as far as, Should you begoing before, like, maintenance?
Like, we were talking about justpeople who go regularly, um, or
wait until you're in the thickof it, or, like, let yourself
process your trauma, whateverhappened, if something big
happens.
I guess I'm talking about in thecontext of something really big.
(30:16):
That you're like going totherapy to work out a big trauma
Sara (30:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I think, again, I think that'sreally, really personal and I
don't think you can do it wrong.
For most people I don't thinkyou can do it wrong if you just
decide what you want to do.
That being said, I do want tolike put up a caveat because
Right.
(30:39):
If there's someone and they'renot able to function in their
life, like really not able tofunction, like I can't get out
of bed.
I'm having suicidal ideation.
I can't do anything right.
That's a different case.
That's like, this person is notstabilized and they need help
immediately.
Right.
So in that case, right, you,you, you don't want to put that
off, but for most people, it'slike, I'm just in a funk, right?
(31:01):
I feel like I'm in a funk and Ifeel like.
You can, you know, you canreally set up that timeline in
whatever way is going to serveyou.
A lot of people, I, I hear thisfrom parents all actually that
are like, Oh my gosh, my kidwent through this thing.
And like, I need to get them intherapy right away.
And I often ask the parentswell, how is your child doing?
(31:21):
And they're like, well, they'refine.
But this thing happened, like,right.
Like I got a divorce and I'mlike, you know, just take a nice
deep breath.
It's okay for you to be thatloving, supportive person.
Like, you don't have to alwaysrun to a therapist right away
just because something happened.
(31:43):
And in fact, use discernment andjudgment because sometimes
there'll just be certaindevelopmental milestones that
someone will need to hit andthat's when it's like, oh, it's
time, right?
Maybe it's like, oh, I'm goinginto pre teenagehood.
I got triggered.
It's time.
Now is the time.
It wouldn't have been helpfulfor me earlier.
(32:04):
But now I can feel that it's theright time.
If that makes sense.
Kristen (32:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And just, it sounds like justusing your intuition is a big,
just one of the biggest thingsto lean on with that.
Sara (32:18):
Yes.
And really like people want tomake us the experts and the
reality is we are not theexperts of your experience.
This is your experience.
You were in the driver's seat.
Again, we can be really goodguides, we can do a lot of
things, but I feel like there'sso much power in you just being
like, this is what I need, orthis is what I want, or this is
(32:38):
what I'm hoping for, right?
Just being able to express thatis so powerful.
Kristen (32:43):
So that's an empowering thought, right?
It's like, ultimately, you getto be in charge and It's not up
to someone else to save you.
It's kind of a, it's kind ofscary, but it's kind of like,
Oh,
Sara (32:58):
yeah, it's not bad news.
Sometimes it's like, Oh, it was,well, there goes 500.
Right?
No.
Right.
But like, but it's true.
And that's also very, it is.
It's powerful to know that youYou can really like steer your
ship.
Kristen (33:16):
Well, I feel like, yeah, it's kind of like you can,
you can learn the skills thatyou need to actually, so you
don't have to pay 500 every orwhatever, you know.
Sara (33:25):
Right?
Yeah.
Like you, if I were to use anymetaphor, I'd be like, you plant
your garden, plant your garden,prepare your soil, cultivate,
you do it.
You can do it.
Kristen (33:39):
That's beautiful.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you are enjoying whollyempowered, share it with that
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If you want to keep up with thelatest episodes until next time,
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