July 15, 2024 • 48 mins
Can chronic stress really trap us in a perpetual state of fight or flight? In this episode of "Why Am I Like This?", Laura Wood and Michaela Beaver unearth the complex layers of anxiety, from generalized anxiety to social anxiety and panic attacks. You'll gain a deeper understanding of how our nervous system responds to perceived threats and why some stress can actually be beneficial. We also explore how anxiety often becomes a fear of fear itself, leading to avoidance behaviors that can impact daily life.
Our conversation then shifts to the digital age and its effect on our mental well-being. In today's world, constant notifications and screen time can create a relentless cycle of anticipatory anxiety, especially for young, developing minds. We explore how this digital dependency not only disrupts sleep patterns but can also lead to daytime fatigue and irritability. Moreover, we discuss the phenomenon of anxiety dreams and how a lack of restful sleep can affect social interactions and overall mental health, raising the intriguing question of whether anxiety can be influenced by those around us.
To empower you in managing anxiety, we dive into practical techniques and the importance of acknowledgment and acceptance. Discover how negativity bias influences our perception of danger and how early childhood interactions shape our self-esteem and anxiety levels. We offer actionable strategies like slow breathing, guided imagery, and the "bucket" technique for organizing tasks and reducing overwhelm. By validating difficult emotions and creating mental space, we aim to help you reach a state where you feel capable of handling whatever comes your way. Join us for this insightful conversation and equip yourself with the tools to better understand and manage anxiety.
Laura's Free Course on Emotional Development and Regulation:
https://benavieri.com/neuroception-sign-up/
This show is sponsored by:
Core Self
Benavieri Counseling & Coaching
www.benavieri.com
Active Healing Psychiatric Services
www.activehealingpsych.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura (00:00):
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:10):
Hi and I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner,
Laura (00:14):
so Michaela why are we doing this podcast?
Michaela (00:18):
I am so glad you asked .
We want to help you understandyourself a bit better how the
things you learned aboutyourself and the world in
childhood are still affectingyou today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this, those random
things about ourselves we mightwonder about, like why am I so
jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:39):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything all the time?
Laura (00:51):
Yes, and today we are talking about feeling anxious.
So we're going to try to answerthe following question what is
anxiety, and is it really a badthing?
Where does anxiety come fromand what can we do to reduce the
impact of anxiety on our lives?
So let's get into it.
What's anxiety?
Michaela (01:08):
There's a ton of different kinds of anxiety.
Right, we have our generalizedanxiety, we have social anxiety,
we have panic attacks, we have,you know, anxiety related to
our health and how our body isfeeling.
But I think that, like, at thebase of all of that, anxiety is
(01:29):
a feeling or a thought thatcreates distress in our bodies,
which is related to what'sactually going on in our bodies.
Right, it's part of our nervoussystem response and kind of we
kind of think of it as likefight or flight, right?
(01:51):
Yeah, for sure, what do youthink?
What would you say?
Anxiety?
Laura (01:55):
is so kind of similar.
I think of anxiety as a nervoussystem response to threat.
So the perceived threat and thereal threat are interchangeable
in this case.
Right, so our nervous system isdesigned to keep us safe and is
designed to regulate our nervesand our body functions, right.
(02:19):
So if we're perceiving a threat, then our body is going to do
certain things that are going toprepare us to evade said threat
, and that is what anxiety is.
It's this response that iscreated by the threat, and so
the problem, I think, when wehave chronic anxiety, is that
(02:40):
the threat is imagined orperceived, but it isn't actually
real.
The threat is imagined orperceived, but it isn't actually
real, and so we lose thediscernment to be able to tell
the difference between a realthreat and a perceived threat.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense.
Michaela (02:53):
But there are types of anxiety that are not
necessarily bad things right.
So we need a little bit of afear response to motivate us.
Sometimes we have a test comingup right and we're we want to
get a good grade on that test,and so that little bit of stress
(03:18):
actually is beneficial for usto help us to do the things that
we need to do, to feel preparedfor that test or presentation
or whatever it is right.
So not all stress isnecessarily coming to that
chronic, you know big stresstype things.
Laura (03:39):
Absolutely.
So there's a difference betweenchronic stress and acute stress
, right?
Chronic stress is just thisconstant, you know, everything
is going all the time and you'realways in fight or flight and
you're flooded with all of thesehormones and adrenaline and
cortisol and all these thingsthat are keeping you in fight or
flight and that could be aresult of just chaos in your
home, in your environment, inyour family, et cetera.
(04:02):
And then there's acutestressors at your job yeah,
absolutely.
And then there's acute stress,which we need in order to push
us forward, right, like even thesense of, like pain.
A sense of pain is telling ussomething, it's sending us a
message.
So, in my opinion I'm going togo really extreme on this end
(04:25):
which is that anxiety is anadaptive response to threat.
It's helpful, it's a good thing, and it only becomes a problem
when it becomes a problem whenit's chronic.
So when you are in a regularenvironment with your friends
and socially, like, let's say,you're in a social environment
(04:45):
and you have a little bit ofnerves because you're meeting a
new person, like, those nervesare not a bad thing, that's a
good thing.
It's going to help keep you,you know, behaving in a way that
is socially acceptable and sothat you can grow these
relationships.
It's going to your nerves, aregoing to tell you, are telling
(05:06):
you that this is important, thatthere's stakes attached to this
, right, like maybe it's notsuper high stakes, but it's like
low stakes, low anxiety, butstill some level of that tangle
of like anticipation, right, soit can be a good thing
(05:29):
anticipation right.
Michaela (05:29):
So it can be a good thing.
But we don't like how it feelsto feel anxious.
We don't like to have thatlittle heart start racing.
We don't want to get a littleflushed or sweaty.
We feel like people can seethat we're responding in a way
or that we're acting differently, and so we start to actually
fear being anxious and so thatcreates disordered behavior,
(05:52):
right.
So it's almost like anxiety isa fear, of fear.
Laura (05:58):
Yeah, we're anticipating the anxiety from the said event.
So then we avoid it, right.
Then we go into like anavoidance behavior there.
Then we go into like anavoidance behavior.
There's like an, there'sapproach behavior and there's
avoidance behavior.
There's social connection andthen there's disconnection and
defense.
So like your nervous system isoperating in either a perceived
(06:20):
like safety and what I heardrecently called discovery mode,
which is like I'm curious, I'mopen, I'm not expecting
everything to be bad, I'm notanticipating a threat, but I
still might be like, ooh, that'sinteresting.
Like, oh, I have a little, I'ma little nervous about that, but
I'm ready enough to try it.
(06:40):
Right, like a roller coaster,I'm excited, right.
So that's a different type ofanxiety than the anxiety that
you feel when you're afraid offeeling afraid and you're afraid
of what's going to happen nextand you see everything as a
perceived threat.
And then you're in this defensestate all the time.
And so we, what we want to dois we want to shift from the
(07:02):
defense into that discovery zonewhere we can be curious and be
open and we can be inviting andaccepting of our anxiety, like,
hey, anxiety, come sit next tome on this couch and we can go
through this together.
Michaela (07:18):
Yeah, I always tell and maybe this is silly, but I
always tell my kids or peopleI'm working with.
I'm like we like this anxietyright.
It's a warning signal, like yousaid.
I call it the spidey sense it'sgoing off.
It's like, hey, there could bedanger.
Then you're like, thank you,thank you, body for doing what
(07:38):
it's supposed to do, but likethere is no tiger here, so I
don't need to be at this level.
I can tone it down a little bit.
But thanks for letting me knowthere's something to pay
attention to.
And I got this.
I can handle it.
Laura (07:55):
I love that.
That's where my phrase for thatis.
I always say it's difficult andnot dangerous.
Yes, I like that.
This is difficult, it's notdangerous.
There's different things.
So once I learned to discernbetween difficult and dangerous,
then my anxiety level can comedown to a reasonable,
appropriate level of anxietyversus an inappropriate,
(08:19):
unreasonable level of anxiety,which I don't even like.
The terms unreasonable andinappropriate Like I feel like
they're shamey, blamey words.
Yeah, when that's not what Imean.
I guess what I mean is we'reoverusing that skill.
Yes, our nervous system isoverusing the skill of sending
us the signal that somethingmight be coming.
Michaela (08:42):
Right.
So that leads me to the nextquestion is why?
Why do we get to a place wherewe have a need to use too much
of that skill?
Laura (08:55):
My gosh, why so many reasons?
I think there's a lot ofreasons, like one thing that I
think about is just ourtemperament.
Like we're born with that wehave some level of fear-based
temperament.
It's part of our personalitythat we inherited or that we
were just sort of created with,and then we maybe have
(09:17):
experienced things in ourenvironment that validate that
or that don't contradict it.
Maybe we are sort of timid andcautious and then our caregivers
are overprotective, validatingour need for being cautious and
validating our need to be timidand reinforcing our fear, and
(09:39):
then we just sort of cycle andcycle and into this chronic
state of anxiety.
Michaela (09:44):
Yeah, that makes sense .
That makes me think ofepigenetics and that kind of
this idea that we all have.
Our DNA isn't that complex andit's not like so so different
from each other's.
What makes us different isthese genes, that kind of flip
(10:04):
on and off, and it's epigeneticsis that you know what happened
to our great great grandma andthe things that they experience
in life, like if they were inthe, you know, depression and
they were.
They experienced war or theyhad, you know, an alcoholic
(10:26):
parent that they were scared of,and so all of those different
things change their, the waythat their genetics are.
That these epigenetics theyflip on and off different ones
and by doing that that isactually passed down from child
to child and so we can be partof what makes us predisposition
(10:54):
to be more of an anxious, shykid is probably related to kind
of things that have happened inthe past to our relatives.
Laura (10:59):
Yeah.
So in the way past let's saygeneration after generation
maybe there were naturaldisasters or there were, you
know, difficult like familyenvironments, or there were
maybe illnesses or there werethings that caused a lot of
stress for our family members.
Then that high stress, highanxiety sort of clicked on and
(11:23):
then it was like OK, we needthis high stress, high anxiety.
So I'm going to pass this on tothe next generation because
this is helping me.
This is a good thing, this isserving me really well because
I'm surviving this naturaldisaster Right, and so it's like
help.
It's like here you go, you havethis high stress, high anxiety,
because it's really helpful inour situation.
(11:43):
However, it's a differentsituation.
Michaela (11:50):
And we're not having to survive in that same way, and
so our nervous system tends to,you know, signal that there's
danger.
So much easier.
Laura (12:05):
Yeah, so I'm going to anticipate that everything is a
threat instead of anticipatethat most things are like not a
threat and they're kind of okay,like it's almost like glasses
half empty or glasses half full,like I'm anticipating things to
be negative or have negativeconsequences, versus I'm
anticipating things to bepositive or neutral.
(12:25):
I think neutral is really what?
A parasympathetic like state ofyou know, just calm, like rest
and digest.
It's like neutral.
It's not like I'm just likeexcited about everything.
Right, I don't have to be superthrilled and happy, but I'm
essentially net neutral.
I'm just like that could goeither way.
Michaela (12:45):
Right and I think that that's a really good point to
make is that, like neutral isprobably most of our natural
state and we don't have to feellike this excited feeling
constantly, and I think thatthat can sometimes be like not
what people expect.
Laura (13:06):
Well, yeah, that just made me think of because if
you're addicted to your phone,you do have to have this excited
feeling constantly.
It's dopamine, it's literaladdiction.
(13:30):
So when we don't have that, themechanics of the addiction make
it so that our baselinedopamine levels are much lower.
We have a deficit.
And when we have a deficit,then us engaged and keep us
clicking and keep us online andyou know they're advertising and
you know every single app issending us alerts.
Like we could get hundreds ofalerts a day on our phone, a
conversation with somebody likeme and you.
(13:51):
Right now, you know I could getan alert and be and just I would
check the alert, likemindlessly right and not even
think about the fact that we'redoing something else and we're
having a conversation in realtime.
But every single time I getthat alert, I have a potential
positive that I could be chasingor I have a potential disaster
that I might be needing toattend to, right?
(14:13):
So I have this anxiety, thisanticipatory anxiety of like
what could this alert possiblybe?
And it could either be a goodthing or a bad thing, but that's
what kind of keeps theaddiction going, right Is that?
I don't know what's.
It's like gambling, like what'sit going to be?
Is it going to be, you know, amI going to hit the jackpot and
it's going to be somebody likereshared my post.
Or is it going to be, you know,I'm going to totally bottom out
(14:37):
and it me, and somebody likesaid something horrible about me
or something right Like what,what is that going to do to me?
Michaela (14:44):
Depending on whether you're glass half full or glass
half empty person, you might beanticipating one or the other,
but I think that there issomething to that.
Like you're like, you'reconstantly feeling like that
Pavlov dog kind of situation,classic conditioning to hear the
ding and need to check it andsee what it is.
(15:06):
Did somebody, did somebody textme?
Do I need to respond to that?
Or if they didn't text, oh man,I'm disappointed because
they're ignoring me.
They must be mad at me.
Laura (15:18):
Yeah, and even adults have problems with this, but
especially kids, whose minds arelike being wired in this moment
to determine whether or not theworld is a safe place.
What is our actions teachingthem in this?
You know, with our social mediaand with our phones and with
our texting and communicationstyles today, I think we're
really rhyming kids to beanxiously addicted and to be
(15:45):
sort of stuck in this cycle of,you know, of compulsion and like
I have to do this and if Idon't check it, then what you
know, then I'm missing out, andthen I'm going to be anxious
because I don't know what I'mmissing and it could be all
these things happening withoutme of how you know, we most
(16:12):
commonly are like, oh, I havethese blue light blocking
glasses and so I can watch allthe TV.
Michaela (16:18):
I have a blue light filter on my screen, so like,
I'm good, I can watch all the TVbecause I'm blocking that and
my melatonin is going to begreat for that.
But you're missing out on thefact that one our brains are
designed to be like excited bywhat we're watching.
And we're watching something wewant to know the end of it, we
want to see what's going tohappen and we're just getting
(16:38):
really invested in it.
Maybe it's kind of scary andthat's causing our fight or
flight, our adrenaline, to startgoing.
And then we think, oh, I'mgoing to turn off the TV and I'm
just going to fall right tosleep, I'm going to stop rolling
and I'm just going to fallright to sleep because you know,
I, I I'm done that.
That helps me fall asleep.
But what's really happening isis it's engaging that part of
(17:02):
our brain that's like I want toknow what's going to happen, so
like, if it's a TV series, youjust can't stop watching because
you want to just keep going andkeep going.
And then, before you know it,it's one o'clock in the morning
and you get no sleep.
Yeah, so we want to know what'sgoing to happen.
It's engaging fight or flight,it's making us feel anxious and
(17:24):
it's going to take some time forour body to settle back down
after engaging in thosebehaviors.
Laura (17:27):
Do you think that it affects our dreams?
I have anxious dreams sometimes.
Michaela (17:33):
I find that if I'm like I deserve to watch this
show, I have worked so hard andI've been wanting to watch it
and I watch it.
I actually don't know abouthaving weird dreams, but I wake
up more in the middle of thenight, or I wake up earlier in
the morning and that's tied tojust not getting into that full
restful state because I stayedup too late or because I was
(17:54):
wanting to watch that thing.
Laura (17:56):
Yeah, Like I can't let go of it or something like that,
Like I'll have in maybe it'sinstead of waking up in the
middle of the night, like I'llhave what I call anxiety dreams,
where it's just like somethingis going really, really wrong
and you can't fix it and it'sjust like you're so stressed,
and then I'll wake up justfeeling really stressed and I
(18:17):
have so much anxiety as I'mawake like I'm just flooded with
it.
And I know that that night Idid not get a good night's sleep
.
Even if I slept for 10 hours, Iwas anxious the whole time.
Michaela (18:32):
Sure, and that carries over into the rest of our day,
right?
So then we're more tiredbecause we didn't get good sleep
, and then we're a little bitmore short with our coworkers or
with our family because wedidn't get the sleep that we
needed.
We've been feeling kind of offand anxious the whole day
(18:53):
because of having that.
Laura (18:55):
You know, all those things adding up together, yeah,
and then we're just exhaustedand we're not able to really
fully function and we're notable to really do our best and
be our best and feel our best,and so maybe then we start to
overthink and start to have,like the even, you know, even
more anxious behaviors andthoughts.
You know, and I think about,like is our anxiety influenced
(19:19):
by our partner?
Is our anxiety influenced bythe people around us?
Do you think we have?
Michaela (19:28):
like contagious anxiety.
Sure, how could we not, right?
I think.
What I think of when I think ofthat is like mirror neurons.
That's what I was just thinkingabout.
Yeah, those, those mirrorneurons are, are we're feeding
off of that.
We're feeding off of the factthat, you know, we're not
getting attuned to by ourpartner.
They're not able to recognizewhat's going on for us because
(19:52):
they're so caught up in what'sgoing on for them or how they're
reacting to our kids, becausethey had a bad day and they're
having, they're beingshort-tempered and that's
affecting us because the kidsare now in distress.
Like every bit of it isconnected to what's going on in
us.
Laura (20:09):
Yeah, and now I'm walking on eggshells because I'm afraid
that you are going to befreaking out or that you're
going to have a blow up, and I'm.
So now I'm walking on eggshellsbecause I'm afraid that you are
going to be freaking out or thatyou're going to have a blow up,
and so now I'm anxious becauseyou're anxious, and then the
kids are anxious, because we'reboth anxious and we're sending
all these signals and we'resaying like, basically what
we're saying is like somethingis dangerous happening here, and
so in our community, whenthere's danger in the community,
(20:30):
we warn each other, and soessentially, we're all just like
getting worked up together andreally isolated from each other
because we can't connect witheach other, but we're just
anxious together.
Yeah, I feel like there's a lotof that happening right now.
We collectively become afraidof things, or there's like these
trends in behaviors and fearsand like all of a sudden it's
(20:54):
you know, everybody's talkingabout this and I just think how
information, and especially fearand, like you know, bad
information travels reallyreally fast, like we pick it up
from each other really reallyfast and we spread it really
really fast, and I think we justdo that more than we do about
neutral or positive information.
We're sort of more primed tospread the fear and danger,
(21:15):
probably because we're trying toprotect each other.
Michaela (21:17):
Sure, what is the negative?
Things are so sticky, theystick to us and they don't leave
where, like the positive things, we just can let them go and we
can discount them so easily.
I mean that is a fear responsething, it's a safety thing.
Laura (21:35):
Yeah, it's that.
Negativity bias is basically,if we're not looking out for it,
then we're going to fall in thehole that's right in front of
us If we're not paying enoughattention, if we're not seeking
out the danger.
But you know, when I thinkabout all of this and then I
think about how do we deal withthe anxiety, one of the things
(21:55):
that sounds counterintuitive,but it's you don't go towards it
, like you don't, you don'tengage with it in the first
place, right, Like you don'tfight the anxiety, and that's
how it actually, like,alleviates itself, cause if you
fight it, then it grows bigger.
Michaela (22:14):
What we resist persists.
Laura (22:17):
What we resist persists.
That's really good.
I really like that.
Michaela (22:21):
I don't remember who said it Carl Young or something
like that, I don't know but yeah, it's so true, it is, it's very
true.
Um, so like I I think that Iwas probably an anxious kid and
didn't like know that I was ananxious kid.
(22:42):
Um, but I think about um youknow I made.
We lived in this one area andthe school system in that area
was not as good as the schoolsystem in the other area, and so
we moved from the school systemthat wasn't as good to the
school system that was like alittle bit more tough and
(23:04):
rigorous, right, and I moved insecond grade and it was I, my
mom says I was nervous to go toschool that first day and I
think that, like, myinterpretation of it was like at
the time I just had a badteacher.
She was really mean.
Looking back, I don't know,maybe she wasn't mean, but maybe
(23:26):
, like, I had an experience ofher that wasn't great and that
created a lot of fear in me anda lot of like thoughts because I
wasn't good enough, because Ihad to go to reading class, like
because I had to catch up, andlike all of that was put on to
me without having attunement to,like my nervous system.
(23:47):
Looking back now I can see thatand so, like, I've just always
thought all these years that shewas just a bad teacher.
She was so mean, like you know,she wasn't helpful, which I'm
like, looking, I don't know,maybe that maybe it was true,
maybe it wasn't true, I don'tknow, but that created a lot of,
I think, the anxiety in me as akid because it wasn't a good
(24:09):
experience and then creatingthat, you know, social fears of
like people are going to thinkI'm stupid and I really think
that's carried over into myadulthood.
Like, having that like fear ofpeople who could be smarter than
me, could have, could know morethan me, that like imposter
syndrome type of stuff, havingthat like has continued.
(24:31):
But I'm able to more recognizelike oh, I don't need to, I
don't need to engage in that.
Like you said, I don't, I don'thave to believe that.
That's true, that I, I you knowI can choose a different thing
to think, but I think about like, the power that that teachers
have in kids.
(24:52):
Because we're talking aboutlike, why are we like this?
You know, I think of the powerthat a teacher has over whether
a kid will be like recognized,attuned to, supported, or if
they're going to feel likethey're being called out, or
they're going to feel like youknow they're not supported and
(25:14):
nobody's there for them andthey're on their own.
Laura (25:19):
Yeah, and that's not a good feeling.
I wonder if the differencebetween you know, feeling
avoidant and feeling afraidwould have been someone saying
to you like hey, firstimpressions aren't everything,
and even though you had that badexperience, it might not be bad
the next time.
Michaela (25:36):
I don't know, maybe that seems like that would have
been helpful, as, like a secondgrade person, like I didn't have
the words to say I, I thinkthat I'm stupid.
Like I feel I'm dumb, like Ididn't have those words, I just
knew I didn't like my teacher.
Laura (25:57):
Yeah, I think that we have to allow for some of that
to happen in our lives too, likesome problems aren't problems
to solve, we just have to sortof accept them as they come.
And so, like as you're tellingme this story, I think about,
like if a kid is feeling down orif an, even if an adult is
feeling down, like to just say,like man, that's really hard,
(26:19):
you're going through a reallyhard thing.
That's a hard feeling to feelI'm here with you.
You know you don't have to dothat alone, we're going to be
okay.
Then I'm not resisting theanxiety or the sadness or the
pain.
I'm not resisting the anxietyor the sadness or the pain.
I'm saying like I'm so sorrythat that's happening.
That's a really hard feeling tofeel we're here together and we
can do it together.
And then it just goes away onits own.
(26:43):
It passes through you as partof like information.
Your nervous system takes thatin, responds to it and says,
like this is hard.
And then you get to a placewhere you're like and I can do
it, yeah, and that evolutionwill happen naturally, if we
(27:05):
don't fight the problem, we justlet it be a problem which is
hard to do.
Michaela (27:08):
It is hard to do and it's hard to sit and watch
someone struggle, and I knowthat you always say do less, and
I think about that a lot whenI'm in different situations and
I'm like do less, I don't haveto fix this right.
(27:29):
Right, and it's hard not to.
I think we all have this needto like make our kids be okay,
and that's why we, or peoplehelp people feel okay, and
that's why we say things thataren't super helpful.
You know, we think we're beinghelpful, but maybe we're not
being as helpful as we could,and so I love that.
Like just validating them isthe key.
Laura (27:53):
Yeah, and acknowledging like sometimes we have to feel
hard feelings.
I talk a lot about keeping ourkids physically and emotionally
safe, right, but part of that isto teach them that feelings
aren't dangerous.
So I can't prevent all pain, Ican't prevent hurt feelings, I
(28:13):
can't prevent hurt bodies, rightLike in our kids.
And when kids are growing up,they need to experience some of
those acute stressors that wetalked about earlier, like we
need to experience stress inorder to overcome, in order to
learn how to navigate in thatenvironment.
And so part of that is, as aparent, saying that was really
(28:34):
hard and you did a great job.
Michaela (28:38):
I love that and I think that that's so true.
I think that we, because wewant to protect our kids from
all the things we take, we takeaway their ability to experience
stress, and when they don'tlearn from little things, when
(28:59):
they start to experience bigthings, they they don't know how
to handle that, you know.
And things keep getting harder.
As we get older, we keepencountering harder and harder
things.
Um, and that's just part oflife.
We're all going to experiencehard things, but when we believe
that we can handle it, it makesit a lot easier.
(29:22):
If we think that it's too hard,if we think that we're not
going to be able to handle it,that's what I always talk about.
Anxiety is literally this ideathat the worst case scenario
thing is going to happen andthat we are not able to handle
it, and in that that, if webelieve that, then it's going to
(29:43):
make it harder for us to beable to handle it.
Laura (29:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's that story that we'retelling ourself.
Right, it's the thought and thebelief that comes along with it
is that I can't, it's too much.
One thing I tell patients andmy kids is like I say that it's
not too much, like, yeah, thisis a lot, it's a ton, but it's
not too much.
We can do it.
It's hard, but it's not toohard, we can get through it.
(30:09):
And what I'm saying in thatmoment is it's okay, hard things
are okay, negative feelings areokay, a little bit of anxiety
is okay and it's helpful.
It teaches us, it tells us whenthings are kind of a big deal.
It tells us when we need to bepaying attention and when we can
(30:31):
orient to what's reallyhappening.
Like, let's say, I heard a loudnoise right now, my anxious,
like my signals would go up andI would look around and once I
see that that loud noise was notlike a crash or anything
dangerous, it was just somethingfell down.
Oh, okay, I'm okay, right, so Iget the alert, I check it out
(30:56):
and then I come back.
And so what we have to getbetter at is checking it out and
then coming back, versus, whenwe get the alert, say no, it's
nothing, it can't be anything.
I can't have this.
Like I'm wrong, right, likeyou're just counter.
You're basically, instead ofchecking out the alert, like, oh
, what happened?
I noticed that I feel this way,like that must have, something
(31:19):
must've happened to make me feelthat way, like, oh, I see that
everything's okay, no big deal.
But what we do instead is wedon't do that checkout part, we
sort of just respond to thealert like stop having anxiety,
you don't need to have it, andthen that doesn't help.
Michaela (31:36):
Yeah, or if we check it out, but we can't believe
that there's nothing bad there,we start believing that.
They're like oh, I can'tbelieve myself because I know
that there's going to besomething bad that happens,
right, and so then they justkeep thinking that something
really bad is going to happen.
Laura (31:57):
Yeah, and then that's when we get into, like the
compulsive areas of like I haveto do all of these things in
order to settle my anxiety down,like in the case of like OCD or
something like that, in orderto alleviate this distress, I
have to take these actions and Ihave to do these things in
order to feel better.
But if we don't have, you know,those compulsions, if we can
(32:20):
realize and this isn'tnecessarily an easy thing to do
but if we can then notice thatthe compulsion is really
designed to alleviate theanxiety, if we can realize we
can alleviate the anxietywithout doing that thing, we can
be okay, even if we don't dothe thing we think we have to do
, then we can recognize and getthat settled feeling.
Michaela (32:44):
Yeah, it's all coming back to trying to protect
ourselves.
And when we feel like we pay somuch attention to what's going
on in our body and I had thispain what does that mean?
Right, those are all us goingdown those rabbit holes of
trying to fix or figure out whatthat pain means.
(33:04):
Is a is a mechanism of tryingto create safety and figure out
what's going on, so that youknow that you're not dying, for
example, or that there's notsome cancer there or something.
So you know you're going tothat catastrophic thinking and
you're trying to figure outwhat's wrong with me when maybe
it was just like a pain and itdidn't mean anything.
(33:27):
And so sometimes those loudnoises aren't necessarily coming
from outside.
They're coming from inside ofus as well, yeah for sure.
Also, like our nervous systemis tied to our gut.
And so have you ever been doingsomething and you're like going
along and then you realize thatlike you did something stupid
(33:49):
or you forgot something and allof a sudden, like you have a pit
in your stomach, like all of asudden, your stomach just feels
like you have a rock in it.
That is literally fight orflight, taking over and stopping
your digestive system fromworking.
Because if we need to run froma dangerous situation, we need
(34:09):
all of the energy diverted torunning, and we can't be
diverting energy and usingenergy to digest our food.
We have to be diverting andmaking it so that we can run, we
can fight, we can flee right.
And so, like our GI system is,you know it's all connected.
We have our enteric nervoussystem that's connected to our
(34:31):
vagus nerve, and our vagus nervetouches all the things all the
way down to our gut, and theycommunicate back and forth.
And, interestingly, serotoninand dopamine are actually well,
serotonin is like 70 to 80% ofwhat's in our gut and they're
also used.
They're used in our brain, butthey're also used in our gut to
(34:53):
help with peristalsis, to helpthings flow through our
digestive tract, and so all ofthe things are connected
together.
Things flow through ourdigestive tract and so all of
the things are connectedtogether, and when we feel
anxious and nervous we get thosebodily, physical sensations.
Maybe our you know our our gutstops digesting because we
(35:14):
became nervous and anxious andwe entered into fight or flight.
And so we want to try to calmour nervous system back down.
Once we realize that thereisn't a threat that we need to
run from, that we need to fightfor our lives, then we calm our
nervous system down so that wecan go back into the normal body
functions of rest and digest.
Laura (35:33):
And so this comes back to that parasympathetic nervous
system reaction to calm down.
So how do we calm down?
What do we need to do?
What can we do to calm down?
Michaela (35:46):
So we can breathe.
Breathing is a great way to calmour nervous system down.
So thinking about our vagusnerve is responsible for
parasympathetic nervous system.
Rest and digest, it's touchingall those things, right.
And so what is there?
Our lungs and our heart.
And so by breathing we'reactivating that parasympathetic
(36:08):
nervous system.
And so we're taking that bigbreath, we're holding our, we're
getting that full lungexpansion, pushing our diaphragm
down, and we're taking thatdeep breath so that we can
activate that.
It's actually putting pressurein the chest cavity, it's
helping to slow down our heartrate and so we're affecting our
nervous system when we take thatdeep breath.
(36:29):
And so you can do a lot ofpeople like square breathing box
breathing, where you go in two,three, four, hold two, three,
four out two, three, four, holdtwo, three, four.
Or some people like four, seven, eight, and I think that like
you breathe in for four, youhold for seven and then out for
(36:50):
eight.
And there's something withbreathing in for four and out
for eight, where you're havinghalf the in and double the out.
That helps activate thatparasympathetic nervous system.
Laura (37:02):
Because you have to go in slow motion, so like that's one
other thing that you can do isyou can start going in slow
motion to like, let's say, it'shard to calm your breathing, but
you can move your body slowly,like so, because you're so.
This is like the opposite,right?
You're saying breath to get thebody to slow down.
(37:24):
I'm saying body to maybe getthe breath to slow down.
So what wires together firestogether.
So my opposite action that wecould do in order to slow down
and calm down is to literallymove in slow motion, so like I
tell all my kids in you know,know, in session and just in
life.
I tell people all the time,like if you're looking for
(37:44):
something, if you lost something, like I can't find my keys or I
can't find my wallet, likeliterally go in slow motion and
just move like you're slow,you're so slow and you'll be
able to find it.
It'll bring your cognition backonline, It'll take back your
and it's hard to do, it's sohard.
Michaela (38:02):
That would drive me crazy, yeah.
And so like I feel like I can'tdo this, I don't have time to
move slow.
Laura (38:09):
That's so funny, Right Cause it's counterintuitive.
It's like I'm in a hurry, Ineed to find something, and I'm
telling you to slow, like go inslow motion, but with the
breathing too, like it's kind ofcounterintuitive because your
heart and your lungs and yournervous system activation right,
is saying go fast, go fast, gofast.
Here you are saying no, I'mgoing to breathe slow, I'm going
(38:29):
to.
You know, hold my breath, I'mgoing to go out slow.
So we're operating, we'reactivating that counteraction
that we need to do when we'rereally amped up and we need to
bring it down.
Michaela (38:48):
But I think the important thing is is that you
cannot be in fight or flight andrest and digest at the same
time, and so by doing thesethings, as silly or as hard as
they may feel like at the time,they are actually activating the
part of the nervous system thatcounterbalances and that will
help you get out of that place.
Laura (39:02):
Yes, you need to counteract the activation and in
order to do that, sometimesit's not the best idea to like,
go down the rabbit hole of likewhy am I so anxious Right, like
in this moment, right now, asyou and I are talking it through
, like this is a perfect exampleof debrief and like sometimes,
(39:24):
you know, I tell clients and Itell my friends even too, like,
don't go through that process offiguring out why, unless you're
in the presence of a therapistor a friend, like when you're on
your own and you're feelinganxious, like until you've
settled that nervous system down, your brain and the chemicals
(39:48):
in your brain, like, and theactivated parts of your brain
are not going to let you, like,you know, dissect and get
insight and like, really, youknow, learn from this experience
anyway.
So you have to be in that restand digest or that discovery
mode or calm, you know, learnfrom this experience anyway.
So you have to be in that restand digest or that discovery
mode or calm, you know,basically being an okay enough
(40:08):
zone in order to then processthe information and learn.
You can't do that when you'rein fight or flight.
Michaela (40:13):
No, so don't try to debrief your kid in the moment.
Don't try to tell your partnerwhat they're doing wrong and how
to fix it in the moment.
Right, that's a debrief type ofsituation.
Is what you're saying Like inthe moment?
Laura (40:29):
That is what.
Michaela (40:29):
I'm saying Don't do it right then, wait until they're
calm to have a conversationabout the things, because it
will not go through.
They will not remember becauseyou know you, you think about
this all the time.
You're like I we've had thisconversation a hundred times.
Why can you not figure out thatyou can't do X, y and Z?
Well, yeah, because you did itwhen they're like crying.
Laura (40:53):
Right, right.
And if I'm like super activatedin fight or flight, like my
thought process is literallylike, don't die.
It's not.
Like, let me please likeunderstand you know what I did
wrong in this moment.
Like it's, that's not what I'mtrying to do in that time.
Like if we had to cognitivelythink about every single action
(41:13):
that we were going to take overin fight or flight, it would
take us so long we would die.
Right, if I'm running from alion, I don't have time to
remember my grocery list.
That's not helping for me.
I need to turn that stuff off.
I need to turn off my thinkingbrain and I need to turn on my
body and my heart rate and mylung capacity and all of those
things.
I need to turn up the energyand turn down the thinking.
(41:38):
And so in that moment I can'tlearn.
Michaela (41:41):
No, which is also why our brakes are shut off right,
and so we're trying to get anoutcome or someone to do
something or something to happenin this elevated state and like
they yell at us or they want tolike kick us or punch us right,
like their brakes are shut offat this point, like their brain
(42:05):
is flooded with chemicals thatshut off the thinking brain and
the brakes are off and they'regoing to do things that are
maybe not great choices duringthat time.
So probably also a good idea tohelp them calm down or give
them time to calm down, becausewe're less likely to get a shoe
thrown at us.
Laura (42:25):
That's a good point.
I think we need to giveourselves space and time to get
calm or to get regulated, justto get back to neutral.
Right, we need to be neutral.
We don't even need to be calmand like relaxed.
That's like calm is like amisleading term, right.
Like when people think of calm,they think of like a hammock on
the beach.
That's not what I'm talkingabout here.
Like we're talking aboutneutral, like at least I know
(42:49):
I'm not going to die, I canhandle whatever's coming at me.
I'm okay enough that's kind ofmy phrase, for this is like I'm
okay enough, right, yeah, I likethat.
And so we need to get okayenough, right, what are maybe
one or two other ways that wecan reduce this impact of the
anxiety?
(43:09):
What can we do?
We've got slow motion, we'vegot slow breathing.
What are maybe one or two otherways that we can help slow down
or calm down or get back tookay enough?
Michaela (43:21):
or two other ways that we can help slow down or calm
down or get back to okay enough.
Yeah, I talk about like aguided imagery, sometimes as
another option, kind of in thatlike mindfulness kind of type of
thing.
So find your happy place andimagine what your happy place is
.
Happy place and imagine whatyour happy place is, some place
(43:45):
that has really no negativestuff that's happened, really
just tied to positive things.
Maybe it's a place you've been,maybe it's a place that you've
never been but you'd want to be,and so you know, you kind of
imagine yourself.
So, like, the most common thingis like a beach.
Right, I think of this lakethat I go to in Minnesota and
you just kind of imagineyourself there and you take
yourself through.
What does it look like?
(44:06):
What are you seeing?
What are you hearing?
Right, you can hear the wavesrushing onto the shore and you
can hear kids playing in thesand and making sand castles.
You can hear the birds.
You can smell the pine treesthat are all around you.
You can smell the lake and theway that smells and you can feel
(44:28):
the sand in your toes.
So you're kind of imaginingyourself there, you're immersing
yourself into the senses andyou're allowing that place to
provide a calm, safe space foryou to go to when you are kind
of needing that, you know, tocome back into a rest and digest
.
Laura (44:48):
That's really good.
As you were saying that, I evenwas like feeling it on my toes
and like listening to the waves.
I was trying to go through thatprocess and it did make me feel
more calm, even just in thismoment.
So I love that one.
That's a really good one.
It did make me feel more calmeven just in this moment.
So I love that one.
That's a really good one.
(45:08):
Another one that I think ofsometimes is to sort out just to
get order.
So sometimes, when we arefeeling really anxious and it's
because we're overwhelmed and wehave too many thoughts all at
one time, and so I like to kindof put my thoughts in buckets
all at one time.
And so I like to kind of put mythoughts in buckets, so like I
like to imagine that I have likea bucket or a container for
each like category of things,and then I can sort of visualize
putting all of those thoughtsinto that particular bucket.
(45:32):
So if I have maybe a red bucketfor the things that are like
bothering me right now, and thenI have a blue bucket for things
about work, and then I have ayellow bucket for things about,
you know, whatever else, likewhatever else that's bothering
me.
I can sort of sort out mythoughts into those buckets and
when I give my mind order then Ifind myself feeling more
(45:56):
settled, because sometimes Ithink the disorder and the
disorganization can make itreally difficult to bring
yourself back into like a stable, settled feeling.
Michaela (46:09):
I agree.
I think that as adults and kidstoo but as adults we have so
many things going on and so manythings that like checklists in
our brain that are undone, andit can really add to that
feeling of of inattention andlack of focus because we were
(46:31):
trying to accomplish one thing.
But we really have all thesesubconscious thoughts in the
back of our head of like oh, Ididn't do the laundry and I
better start dinner.
Or like I need to go to thegrocery store, don't forget to
get the ketchup, you know.
So we have all these thingsgoing on in the background that
we're not really actively alwaysthinking about, but it feels
(46:53):
like it's not done and it givesus that feeling like I'm
forgetting something, I didn'tdo the thing.
And so, like by potentiallybeing able to sort these things
into your buckets, you could getrid of some of that unsettled
feeling.
For someone like me who can'timagine a bucket and see it, I
feel like writing it down orlike having a thought of being
(47:17):
like oh, that would be the redbucket and just thinking about
like, oh, that's a red bucketthought, oh, that's a yellow
bucket thought, and kind of likejust thinking about it, like
that way could be also reallyhelpful for those people out
there that don't you know, seeimages in their brain.
Laura (47:34):
That's a perfect way to explain it.
Yeah, I love that.
I think these are reallyhelpful tools.
I'm going to use your guidedimagery and I'm going to try to
use your breathing technique andhopefully I'll be able to get
myself settled the next time.
I'm feeling a little anxious.
Yeah, I think.
Michaela (47:55):
I'm going to try your bucket thing and see if that
works to help organize all thoseundone tasks that I have.
Laura (48:02):
That sounds awesome.
Well, this was really great.
Thank you so much for thisconversation.
It was extra helpful and fun.
Yeah, thank you, and thank youfor listening to.
Why Am I Like this?
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, laura Wood and
(48:25):
Michelle Bieber.
Our theme song is Making EndsMeet by Thick as Thieves, and a
special thanks to BenefairyCounseling and Coaching and
Active Healing PsychiatricServices for sponsoring this
show.
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:10):
Hi and I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner,
Laura (00:14):
so Michaela why are we doing this podcast?
Michaela (00:18):
I am so glad you asked .
We want to help you understandyourself a bit better how the
things you learned aboutyourself and the world in
childhood are still affectingyou today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this, those random
things about ourselves we mightwonder about, like why am I so
jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:39):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything all the time?
Laura (00:51):
Yes, and today we are talking about feeling anxious.
So we're going to try to answerthe following question what is
anxiety, and is it really a badthing?
Where does anxiety come fromand what can we do to reduce the
impact of anxiety on our lives?
So let's get into it.
What's anxiety?
Michaela (01:08):
There's a ton of different kinds of anxiety.
Right, we have our generalizedanxiety, we have social anxiety,
we have panic attacks, we have,you know, anxiety related to
our health and how our body isfeeling.
But I think that, like, at thebase of all of that, anxiety is
(01:29):
a feeling or a thought thatcreates distress in our bodies,
which is related to what'sactually going on in our bodies.
Right, it's part of our nervoussystem response and kind of we
kind of think of it as likefight or flight, right?
(01:51):
Yeah, for sure, what do youthink?
What would you say?
Anxiety?
Laura (01:55):
is so kind of similar.
I think of anxiety as a nervoussystem response to threat.
So the perceived threat and thereal threat are interchangeable
in this case.
Right, so our nervous system isdesigned to keep us safe and is
designed to regulate our nervesand our body functions, right.
(02:19):
So if we're perceiving a threat, then our body is going to do
certain things that are going toprepare us to evade said threat
, and that is what anxiety is.
It's this response that iscreated by the threat, and so
the problem, I think, when wehave chronic anxiety, is that
(02:40):
the threat is imagined orperceived, but it isn't actually
real.
The threat is imagined orperceived, but it isn't actually
real, and so we lose thediscernment to be able to tell
the difference between a realthreat and a perceived threat.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense.
Michaela (02:53):
But there are types of anxiety that are not
necessarily bad things right.
So we need a little bit of afear response to motivate us.
Sometimes we have a test comingup right and we're we want to
get a good grade on that test,and so that little bit of stress
(03:18):
actually is beneficial for usto help us to do the things that
we need to do, to feel preparedfor that test or presentation
or whatever it is right.
So not all stress isnecessarily coming to that
chronic, you know big stresstype things.
Laura (03:39):
Absolutely.
So there's a difference betweenchronic stress and acute stress
, right?
Chronic stress is just thisconstant, you know, everything
is going all the time and you'realways in fight or flight and
you're flooded with all of thesehormones and adrenaline and
cortisol and all these thingsthat are keeping you in fight or
flight and that could be aresult of just chaos in your
home, in your environment, inyour family, et cetera.
(04:02):
And then there's acutestressors at your job yeah,
absolutely.
And then there's acute stress,which we need in order to push
us forward, right, like even thesense of, like pain.
A sense of pain is telling ussomething, it's sending us a
message.
So, in my opinion I'm going togo really extreme on this end
(04:25):
which is that anxiety is anadaptive response to threat.
It's helpful, it's a good thing, and it only becomes a problem
when it becomes a problem whenit's chronic.
So when you are in a regularenvironment with your friends
and socially, like, let's say,you're in a social environment
(04:45):
and you have a little bit ofnerves because you're meeting a
new person, like, those nervesare not a bad thing, that's a
good thing.
It's going to help keep you,you know, behaving in a way that
is socially acceptable and sothat you can grow these
relationships.
It's going to your nerves, aregoing to tell you, are telling
(05:06):
you that this is important, thatthere's stakes attached to this
, right, like maybe it's notsuper high stakes, but it's like
low stakes, low anxiety, butstill some level of that tangle
of like anticipation, right, soit can be a good thing
(05:29):
anticipation right.
Michaela (05:29):
So it can be a good thing.
But we don't like how it feelsto feel anxious.
We don't like to have thatlittle heart start racing.
We don't want to get a littleflushed or sweaty.
We feel like people can seethat we're responding in a way
or that we're acting differently, and so we start to actually
fear being anxious and so thatcreates disordered behavior,
(05:52):
right.
So it's almost like anxiety isa fear, of fear.
Laura (05:58):
Yeah, we're anticipating the anxiety from the said event.
So then we avoid it, right.
Then we go into like anavoidance behavior there.
Then we go into like anavoidance behavior.
There's like an, there'sapproach behavior and there's
avoidance behavior.
There's social connection andthen there's disconnection and
defense.
So like your nervous system isoperating in either a perceived
(06:20):
like safety and what I heardrecently called discovery mode,
which is like I'm curious, I'mopen, I'm not expecting
everything to be bad, I'm notanticipating a threat, but I
still might be like, ooh, that'sinteresting.
Like, oh, I have a little, I'ma little nervous about that, but
I'm ready enough to try it.
(06:40):
Right, like a roller coaster,I'm excited, right.
So that's a different type ofanxiety than the anxiety that
you feel when you're afraid offeeling afraid and you're afraid
of what's going to happen nextand you see everything as a
perceived threat.
And then you're in this defensestate all the time.
And so we, what we want to dois we want to shift from the
(07:02):
defense into that discovery zonewhere we can be curious and be
open and we can be inviting andaccepting of our anxiety, like,
hey, anxiety, come sit next tome on this couch and we can go
through this together.
Michaela (07:18):
Yeah, I always tell and maybe this is silly, but I
always tell my kids or peopleI'm working with.
I'm like we like this anxietyright.
It's a warning signal, like yousaid.
I call it the spidey sense it'sgoing off.
It's like, hey, there could bedanger.
Then you're like, thank you,thank you, body for doing what
(07:38):
it's supposed to do, but likethere is no tiger here, so I
don't need to be at this level.
I can tone it down a little bit.
But thanks for letting me knowthere's something to pay
attention to.
And I got this.
I can handle it.
Laura (07:55):
I love that.
That's where my phrase for thatis.
I always say it's difficult andnot dangerous.
Yes, I like that.
This is difficult, it's notdangerous.
There's different things.
So once I learned to discernbetween difficult and dangerous,
then my anxiety level can comedown to a reasonable,
appropriate level of anxietyversus an inappropriate,
(08:19):
unreasonable level of anxiety,which I don't even like.
The terms unreasonable andinappropriate Like I feel like
they're shamey, blamey words.
Yeah, when that's not what Imean.
I guess what I mean is we'reoverusing that skill.
Yes, our nervous system isoverusing the skill of sending
us the signal that somethingmight be coming.
Michaela (08:42):
Right.
So that leads me to the nextquestion is why?
Why do we get to a place wherewe have a need to use too much
of that skill?
Laura (08:55):
My gosh, why so many reasons?
I think there's a lot ofreasons, like one thing that I
think about is just ourtemperament.
Like we're born with that wehave some level of fear-based
temperament.
It's part of our personalitythat we inherited or that we
were just sort of created with,and then we maybe have
(09:17):
experienced things in ourenvironment that validate that
or that don't contradict it.
Maybe we are sort of timid andcautious and then our caregivers
are overprotective, validatingour need for being cautious and
validating our need to be timidand reinforcing our fear, and
(09:39):
then we just sort of cycle andcycle and into this chronic
state of anxiety.
Michaela (09:44):
Yeah, that makes sense .
That makes me think ofepigenetics and that kind of
this idea that we all have.
Our DNA isn't that complex andit's not like so so different
from each other's.
What makes us different isthese genes, that kind of flip
(10:04):
on and off, and it's epigeneticsis that you know what happened
to our great great grandma andthe things that they experience
in life, like if they were inthe, you know, depression and
they were.
They experienced war or theyhad, you know, an alcoholic
(10:26):
parent that they were scared of,and so all of those different
things change their, the waythat their genetics are.
That these epigenetics theyflip on and off different ones
and by doing that that isactually passed down from child
to child and so we can be partof what makes us predisposition
(10:54):
to be more of an anxious, shykid is probably related to kind
of things that have happened inthe past to our relatives.
Laura (10:59):
Yeah.
So in the way past let's saygeneration after generation
maybe there were naturaldisasters or there were, you
know, difficult like familyenvironments, or there were
maybe illnesses or there werethings that caused a lot of
stress for our family members.
Then that high stress, highanxiety sort of clicked on and
(11:23):
then it was like OK, we needthis high stress, high anxiety.
So I'm going to pass this on tothe next generation because
this is helping me.
This is a good thing, this isserving me really well because
I'm surviving this naturaldisaster Right, and so it's like
help.
It's like here you go, you havethis high stress, high anxiety,
because it's really helpful inour situation.
(11:43):
However, it's a differentsituation.
Michaela (11:50):
And we're not having to survive in that same way, and
so our nervous system tends to,you know, signal that there's
danger.
So much easier.
Laura (12:05):
Yeah, so I'm going to anticipate that everything is a
threat instead of anticipatethat most things are like not a
threat and they're kind of okay,like it's almost like glasses
half empty or glasses half full,like I'm anticipating things to
be negative or have negativeconsequences, versus I'm
anticipating things to bepositive or neutral.
(12:25):
I think neutral is really what?
A parasympathetic like state ofyou know, just calm, like rest
and digest.
It's like neutral.
It's not like I'm just likeexcited about everything.
Right, I don't have to be superthrilled and happy, but I'm
essentially net neutral.
I'm just like that could goeither way.
Michaela (12:45):
Right and I think that that's a really good point to
make is that, like neutral isprobably most of our natural
state and we don't have to feellike this excited feeling
constantly, and I think thatthat can sometimes be like not
what people expect.
Laura (13:06):
Well, yeah, that just made me think of because if
you're addicted to your phone,you do have to have this excited
feeling constantly.
It's dopamine, it's literaladdiction.
(13:30):
So when we don't have that, themechanics of the addiction make
it so that our baselinedopamine levels are much lower.
We have a deficit.
And when we have a deficit,then us engaged and keep us
clicking and keep us online andyou know they're advertising and
you know every single app issending us alerts.
Like we could get hundreds ofalerts a day on our phone, a
conversation with somebody likeme and you.
(13:51):
Right now, you know I could getan alert and be and just I would
check the alert, likemindlessly right and not even
think about the fact that we'redoing something else and we're
having a conversation in realtime.
But every single time I getthat alert, I have a potential
positive that I could be chasingor I have a potential disaster
that I might be needing toattend to, right?
(14:13):
So I have this anxiety, thisanticipatory anxiety of like
what could this alert possiblybe?
And it could either be a goodthing or a bad thing, but that's
what kind of keeps theaddiction going, right Is that?
I don't know what's.
It's like gambling, like what'sit going to be?
Is it going to be, you know, amI going to hit the jackpot and
it's going to be somebody likereshared my post.
Or is it going to be, you know,I'm going to totally bottom out
(14:37):
and it me, and somebody likesaid something horrible about me
or something right Like what,what is that going to do to me?
Michaela (14:44):
Depending on whether you're glass half full or glass
half empty person, you might beanticipating one or the other,
but I think that there issomething to that.
Like you're like, you'reconstantly feeling like that
Pavlov dog kind of situation,classic conditioning to hear the
ding and need to check it andsee what it is.
(15:06):
Did somebody, did somebody textme?
Do I need to respond to that?
Or if they didn't text, oh man,I'm disappointed because
they're ignoring me.
They must be mad at me.
Laura (15:18):
Yeah, and even adults have problems with this, but
especially kids, whose minds arelike being wired in this moment
to determine whether or not theworld is a safe place.
What is our actions teachingthem in this?
You know, with our social mediaand with our phones and with
our texting and communicationstyles today, I think we're
really rhyming kids to beanxiously addicted and to be
(15:45):
sort of stuck in this cycle of,you know, of compulsion and like
I have to do this and if Idon't check it, then what you
know, then I'm missing out, andthen I'm going to be anxious
because I don't know what I'mmissing and it could be all
these things happening withoutme of how you know, we most
(16:12):
commonly are like, oh, I havethese blue light blocking
glasses and so I can watch allthe TV.
Michaela (16:18):
I have a blue light filter on my screen, so like,
I'm good, I can watch all the TVbecause I'm blocking that and
my melatonin is going to begreat for that.
But you're missing out on thefact that one our brains are
designed to be like excited bywhat we're watching.
And we're watching something wewant to know the end of it, we
want to see what's going tohappen and we're just getting
(16:38):
really invested in it.
Maybe it's kind of scary andthat's causing our fight or
flight, our adrenaline, to startgoing.
And then we think, oh, I'mgoing to turn off the TV and I'm
just going to fall right tosleep, I'm going to stop rolling
and I'm just going to fallright to sleep because you know,
I, I I'm done that.
That helps me fall asleep.
But what's really happening isis it's engaging that part of
(17:02):
our brain that's like I want toknow what's going to happen, so
like, if it's a TV series, youjust can't stop watching because
you want to just keep going andkeep going.
And then, before you know it,it's one o'clock in the morning
and you get no sleep.
Yeah, so we want to know what'sgoing to happen.
It's engaging fight or flight,it's making us feel anxious and
(17:24):
it's going to take some time forour body to settle back down
after engaging in thosebehaviors.
Laura (17:27):
Do you think that it affects our dreams?
I have anxious dreams sometimes.
Michaela (17:33):
I find that if I'm like I deserve to watch this
show, I have worked so hard andI've been wanting to watch it
and I watch it.
I actually don't know abouthaving weird dreams, but I wake
up more in the middle of thenight, or I wake up earlier in
the morning and that's tied tojust not getting into that full
restful state because I stayedup too late or because I was
(17:54):
wanting to watch that thing.
Laura (17:56):
Yeah, Like I can't let go of it or something like that,
Like I'll have in maybe it'sinstead of waking up in the
middle of the night, like I'llhave what I call anxiety dreams,
where it's just like somethingis going really, really wrong
and you can't fix it and it'sjust like you're so stressed,
and then I'll wake up justfeeling really stressed and I
(18:17):
have so much anxiety as I'mawake like I'm just flooded with
it.
And I know that that night Idid not get a good night's sleep
.
Even if I slept for 10 hours, Iwas anxious the whole time.
Michaela (18:32):
Sure, and that carries over into the rest of our day,
right?
So then we're more tiredbecause we didn't get good sleep
, and then we're a little bitmore short with our coworkers or
with our family because wedidn't get the sleep that we
needed.
We've been feeling kind of offand anxious the whole day
(18:53):
because of having that.
Laura (18:55):
You know, all those things adding up together, yeah,
and then we're just exhaustedand we're not able to really
fully function and we're notable to really do our best and
be our best and feel our best,and so maybe then we start to
overthink and start to have,like the even, you know, even
more anxious behaviors andthoughts.
You know, and I think about,like is our anxiety influenced
(19:19):
by our partner?
Is our anxiety influenced bythe people around us?
Do you think we have?
Michaela (19:28):
like contagious anxiety.
Sure, how could we not, right?
I think.
What I think of when I think ofthat is like mirror neurons.
That's what I was just thinkingabout.
Yeah, those, those mirrorneurons are, are we're feeding
off of that.
We're feeding off of the factthat, you know, we're not
getting attuned to by ourpartner.
They're not able to recognizewhat's going on for us because
(19:52):
they're so caught up in what'sgoing on for them or how they're
reacting to our kids, becausethey had a bad day and they're
having, they're beingshort-tempered and that's
affecting us because the kidsare now in distress.
Like every bit of it isconnected to what's going on in
us.
Laura (20:09):
Yeah, and now I'm walking on eggshells because I'm afraid
that you are going to befreaking out or that you're
going to have a blow up, and I'm.
So now I'm walking on eggshellsbecause I'm afraid that you are
going to be freaking out or thatyou're going to have a blow up,
and so now I'm anxious becauseyou're anxious, and then the
kids are anxious, because we'reboth anxious and we're sending
all these signals and we'resaying like, basically what
we're saying is like somethingis dangerous happening here, and
so in our community, whenthere's danger in the community,
(20:30):
we warn each other, and soessentially, we're all just like
getting worked up together andreally isolated from each other
because we can't connect witheach other, but we're just
anxious together.
Yeah, I feel like there's a lotof that happening right now.
We collectively become afraidof things, or there's like these
trends in behaviors and fearsand like all of a sudden it's
(20:54):
you know, everybody's talkingabout this and I just think how
information, and especially fearand, like you know, bad
information travels reallyreally fast, like we pick it up
from each other really reallyfast and we spread it really
really fast, and I think we justdo that more than we do about
neutral or positive information.
We're sort of more primed tospread the fear and danger,
(21:15):
probably because we're trying toprotect each other.
Michaela (21:17):
Sure, what is the negative?
Things are so sticky, theystick to us and they don't leave
where, like the positive things, we just can let them go and we
can discount them so easily.
I mean that is a fear responsething, it's a safety thing.
Laura (21:35):
Yeah, it's that.
Negativity bias is basically,if we're not looking out for it,
then we're going to fall in thehole that's right in front of
us If we're not paying enoughattention, if we're not seeking
out the danger.
But you know, when I thinkabout all of this and then I
think about how do we deal withthe anxiety, one of the things
(21:55):
that sounds counterintuitive,but it's you don't go towards it
, like you don't, you don'tengage with it in the first
place, right, Like you don'tfight the anxiety, and that's
how it actually, like,alleviates itself, cause if you
fight it, then it grows bigger.
Michaela (22:14):
What we resist persists.
Laura (22:17):
What we resist persists.
That's really good.
I really like that.
Michaela (22:21):
I don't remember who said it Carl Young or something
like that, I don't know but yeah, it's so true, it is, it's very
true.
Um, so like I I think that Iwas probably an anxious kid and
didn't like know that I was ananxious kid.
(22:42):
Um, but I think about um youknow I made.
We lived in this one area andthe school system in that area
was not as good as the schoolsystem in the other area, and so
we moved from the school systemthat wasn't as good to the
school system that was like alittle bit more tough and
(23:04):
rigorous, right, and I moved insecond grade and it was I, my
mom says I was nervous to go toschool that first day and I
think that, like, myinterpretation of it was like at
the time I just had a badteacher.
She was really mean.
Looking back, I don't know,maybe she wasn't mean, but maybe
(23:26):
, like, I had an experience ofher that wasn't great and that
created a lot of fear in me anda lot of like thoughts because I
wasn't good enough, because Ihad to go to reading class, like
because I had to catch up, andlike all of that was put on to
me without having attunement to,like my nervous system.
(23:47):
Looking back now I can see thatand so, like, I've just always
thought all these years that shewas just a bad teacher.
She was so mean, like you know,she wasn't helpful, which I'm
like, looking, I don't know,maybe that maybe it was true,
maybe it wasn't true, I don'tknow, but that created a lot of,
I think, the anxiety in me as akid because it wasn't a good
(24:09):
experience and then creatingthat, you know, social fears of
like people are going to thinkI'm stupid and I really think
that's carried over into myadulthood.
Like, having that like fear ofpeople who could be smarter than
me, could have, could know morethan me, that like imposter
syndrome type of stuff, havingthat like has continued.
(24:31):
But I'm able to more recognizelike oh, I don't need to, I
don't need to engage in that.
Like you said, I don't, I don'thave to believe that.
That's true, that I, I you knowI can choose a different thing
to think, but I think about like, the power that that teachers
have in kids.
(24:52):
Because we're talking aboutlike, why are we like this?
You know, I think of the powerthat a teacher has over whether
a kid will be like recognized,attuned to, supported, or if
they're going to feel likethey're being called out, or
they're going to feel like youknow they're not supported and
(25:14):
nobody's there for them andthey're on their own.
Laura (25:19):
Yeah, and that's not a good feeling.
I wonder if the differencebetween you know, feeling
avoidant and feeling afraidwould have been someone saying
to you like hey, firstimpressions aren't everything,
and even though you had that badexperience, it might not be bad
the next time.
Michaela (25:36):
I don't know, maybe that seems like that would have
been helpful, as, like a secondgrade person, like I didn't have
the words to say I, I thinkthat I'm stupid.
Like I feel I'm dumb, like Ididn't have those words, I just
knew I didn't like my teacher.
Laura (25:57):
Yeah, I think that we have to allow for some of that
to happen in our lives too, likesome problems aren't problems
to solve, we just have to sortof accept them as they come.
And so, like as you're tellingme this story, I think about,
like if a kid is feeling down orif an, even if an adult is
feeling down, like to just say,like man, that's really hard,
(26:19):
you're going through a reallyhard thing.
That's a hard feeling to feelI'm here with you.
You know you don't have to dothat alone, we're going to be
okay.
Then I'm not resisting theanxiety or the sadness or the
pain.
I'm not resisting the anxietyor the sadness or the pain.
I'm saying like I'm so sorrythat that's happening.
That's a really hard feeling tofeel we're here together and we
can do it together.
And then it just goes away onits own.
(26:43):
It passes through you as partof like information.
Your nervous system takes thatin, responds to it and says,
like this is hard.
And then you get to a placewhere you're like and I can do
it, yeah, and that evolutionwill happen naturally, if we
(27:05):
don't fight the problem, we justlet it be a problem which is
hard to do.
Michaela (27:08):
It is hard to do and it's hard to sit and watch
someone struggle, and I knowthat you always say do less, and
I think about that a lot whenI'm in different situations and
I'm like do less, I don't haveto fix this right.
(27:29):
Right, and it's hard not to.
I think we all have this needto like make our kids be okay,
and that's why we, or peoplehelp people feel okay, and
that's why we say things thataren't super helpful.
You know, we think we're beinghelpful, but maybe we're not
being as helpful as we could,and so I love that.
Like just validating them isthe key.
Laura (27:53):
Yeah, and acknowledging like sometimes we have to feel
hard feelings.
I talk a lot about keeping ourkids physically and emotionally
safe, right, but part of that isto teach them that feelings
aren't dangerous.
So I can't prevent all pain, Ican't prevent hurt feelings, I
(28:13):
can't prevent hurt bodies, rightLike in our kids.
And when kids are growing up,they need to experience some of
those acute stressors that wetalked about earlier, like we
need to experience stress inorder to overcome, in order to
learn how to navigate in thatenvironment.
And so part of that is, as aparent, saying that was really
(28:34):
hard and you did a great job.
Michaela (28:38):
I love that and I think that that's so true.
I think that we, because wewant to protect our kids from
all the things we take, we takeaway their ability to experience
stress, and when they don'tlearn from little things, when
(28:59):
they start to experience bigthings, they they don't know how
to handle that, you know.
And things keep getting harder.
As we get older, we keepencountering harder and harder
things.
Um, and that's just part oflife.
We're all going to experiencehard things, but when we believe
that we can handle it, it makesit a lot easier.
(29:22):
If we think that it's too hard,if we think that we're not
going to be able to handle it,that's what I always talk about.
Anxiety is literally this ideathat the worst case scenario
thing is going to happen andthat we are not able to handle
it, and in that that, if webelieve that, then it's going to
(29:43):
make it harder for us to beable to handle it.
Laura (29:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's that story that we'retelling ourself.
Right, it's the thought and thebelief that comes along with it
is that I can't, it's too much.
One thing I tell patients andmy kids is like I say that it's
not too much, like, yeah, thisis a lot, it's a ton, but it's
not too much.
We can do it.
It's hard, but it's not toohard, we can get through it.
(30:09):
And what I'm saying in thatmoment is it's okay, hard things
are okay, negative feelings areokay, a little bit of anxiety
is okay and it's helpful.
It teaches us, it tells us whenthings are kind of a big deal.
It tells us when we need to bepaying attention and when we can
(30:31):
orient to what's reallyhappening.
Like, let's say, I heard a loudnoise right now, my anxious,
like my signals would go up andI would look around and once I
see that that loud noise was notlike a crash or anything
dangerous, it was just somethingfell down.
Oh, okay, I'm okay, right, so Iget the alert, I check it out
(30:56):
and then I come back.
And so what we have to getbetter at is checking it out and
then coming back, versus, whenwe get the alert, say no, it's
nothing, it can't be anything.
I can't have this.
Like I'm wrong, right, likeyou're just counter.
You're basically, instead ofchecking out the alert, like, oh
, what happened?
I noticed that I feel this way,like that must have, something
(31:19):
must've happened to make me feelthat way, like, oh, I see that
everything's okay, no big deal.
But what we do instead is wedon't do that checkout part, we
sort of just respond to thealert like stop having anxiety,
you don't need to have it, andthen that doesn't help.
Michaela (31:36):
Yeah, or if we check it out, but we can't believe
that there's nothing bad there,we start believing that.
They're like oh, I can'tbelieve myself because I know
that there's going to besomething bad that happens,
right, and so then they justkeep thinking that something
really bad is going to happen.
Laura (31:57):
Yeah, and then that's when we get into, like the
compulsive areas of like I haveto do all of these things in
order to settle my anxiety down,like in the case of like OCD or
something like that, in orderto alleviate this distress, I
have to take these actions and Ihave to do these things in
order to feel better.
But if we don't have, you know,those compulsions, if we can
(32:20):
realize and this isn'tnecessarily an easy thing to do
but if we can then notice thatthe compulsion is really
designed to alleviate theanxiety, if we can realize we
can alleviate the anxietywithout doing that thing, we can
be okay, even if we don't dothe thing we think we have to do
, then we can recognize and getthat settled feeling.
Michaela (32:44):
Yeah, it's all coming back to trying to protect
ourselves.
And when we feel like we pay somuch attention to what's going
on in our body and I had thispain what does that mean?
Right, those are all us goingdown those rabbit holes of
trying to fix or figure out whatthat pain means.
(33:04):
Is a is a mechanism of tryingto create safety and figure out
what's going on, so that youknow that you're not dying, for
example, or that there's notsome cancer there or something.
So you know you're going tothat catastrophic thinking and
you're trying to figure outwhat's wrong with me when maybe
it was just like a pain and itdidn't mean anything.
(33:27):
And so sometimes those loudnoises aren't necessarily coming
from outside.
They're coming from inside ofus as well, yeah for sure.
Also, like our nervous systemis tied to our gut.
And so have you ever been doingsomething and you're like going
along and then you realize thatlike you did something stupid
(33:49):
or you forgot something and allof a sudden, like you have a pit
in your stomach, like all of asudden, your stomach just feels
like you have a rock in it.
That is literally fight orflight, taking over and stopping
your digestive system fromworking.
Because if we need to run froma dangerous situation, we need
(34:09):
all of the energy diverted torunning, and we can't be
diverting energy and usingenergy to digest our food.
We have to be diverting andmaking it so that we can run, we
can fight, we can flee right.
And so, like our GI system is,you know it's all connected.
We have our enteric nervoussystem that's connected to our
(34:31):
vagus nerve, and our vagus nervetouches all the things all the
way down to our gut, and theycommunicate back and forth.
And, interestingly, serotoninand dopamine are actually well,
serotonin is like 70 to 80% ofwhat's in our gut and they're
also used.
They're used in our brain, butthey're also used in our gut to
(34:53):
help with peristalsis, to helpthings flow through our
digestive tract, and so all ofthe things are connected
together.
Things flow through ourdigestive tract and so all of
the things are connectedtogether, and when we feel
anxious and nervous we get thosebodily, physical sensations.
Maybe our you know our our gutstops digesting because we
(35:14):
became nervous and anxious andwe entered into fight or flight.
And so we want to try to calmour nervous system back down.
Once we realize that thereisn't a threat that we need to
run from, that we need to fightfor our lives, then we calm our
nervous system down so that wecan go back into the normal body
functions of rest and digest.
Laura (35:33):
And so this comes back to that parasympathetic nervous
system reaction to calm down.
So how do we calm down?
What do we need to do?
What can we do to calm down?
Michaela (35:46):
So we can breathe.
Breathing is a great way to calmour nervous system down.
So thinking about our vagusnerve is responsible for
parasympathetic nervous system.
Rest and digest, it's touchingall those things, right.
And so what is there?
Our lungs and our heart.
And so by breathing we'reactivating that parasympathetic
(36:08):
nervous system.
And so we're taking that bigbreath, we're holding our, we're
getting that full lungexpansion, pushing our diaphragm
down, and we're taking thatdeep breath so that we can
activate that.
It's actually putting pressurein the chest cavity, it's
helping to slow down our heartrate and so we're affecting our
nervous system when we take thatdeep breath.
(36:29):
And so you can do a lot ofpeople like square breathing box
breathing, where you go in two,three, four, hold two, three,
four out two, three, four, holdtwo, three, four.
Or some people like four, seven, eight, and I think that like
you breathe in for four, youhold for seven and then out for
(36:50):
eight.
And there's something withbreathing in for four and out
for eight, where you're havinghalf the in and double the out.
That helps activate thatparasympathetic nervous system.
Laura (37:02):
Because you have to go in slow motion, so like that's one
other thing that you can do isyou can start going in slow
motion to like, let's say, it'shard to calm your breathing, but
you can move your body slowly,like so, because you're so.
This is like the opposite,right?
You're saying breath to get thebody to slow down.
(37:24):
I'm saying body to maybe getthe breath to slow down.
So what wires together firestogether.
So my opposite action that wecould do in order to slow down
and calm down is to literallymove in slow motion, so like I
tell all my kids in you know,know, in session and just in
life.
I tell people all the time,like if you're looking for
(37:44):
something, if you lost something, like I can't find my keys or I
can't find my wallet, likeliterally go in slow motion and
just move like you're slow,you're so slow and you'll be
able to find it.
It'll bring your cognition backonline, It'll take back your
and it's hard to do, it's sohard.
Michaela (38:02):
That would drive me crazy, yeah.
And so like I feel like I can'tdo this, I don't have time to
move slow.
Laura (38:09):
That's so funny, Right Cause it's counterintuitive.
It's like I'm in a hurry, Ineed to find something, and I'm
telling you to slow, like go inslow motion, but with the
breathing too, like it's kind ofcounterintuitive because your
heart and your lungs and yournervous system activation right,
is saying go fast, go fast, gofast.
Here you are saying no, I'mgoing to breathe slow, I'm going
(38:29):
to.
You know, hold my breath, I'mgoing to go out slow.
So we're operating, we'reactivating that counteraction
that we need to do when we'rereally amped up and we need to
bring it down.
Michaela (38:48):
But I think the important thing is is that you
cannot be in fight or flight andrest and digest at the same
time, and so by doing thesethings, as silly or as hard as
they may feel like at the time,they are actually activating the
part of the nervous system thatcounterbalances and that will
help you get out of that place.
Laura (39:02):
Yes, you need to counteract the activation and in
order to do that, sometimesit's not the best idea to like,
go down the rabbit hole of likewhy am I so anxious Right, like
in this moment, right now, asyou and I are talking it through
, like this is a perfect exampleof debrief and like sometimes,
(39:24):
you know, I tell clients and Itell my friends even too, like,
don't go through that process offiguring out why, unless you're
in the presence of a therapistor a friend, like when you're on
your own and you're feelinganxious, like until you've
settled that nervous system down, your brain and the chemicals
(39:48):
in your brain, like, and theactivated parts of your brain
are not going to let you, like,you know, dissect and get
insight and like, really, youknow, learn from this experience
anyway.
So you have to be in that restand digest or that discovery
mode or calm, you know, learnfrom this experience anyway.
So you have to be in that restand digest or that discovery
mode or calm, you know,basically being an okay enough
(40:08):
zone in order to then processthe information and learn.
You can't do that when you'rein fight or flight.
Michaela (40:13):
No, so don't try to debrief your kid in the moment.
Don't try to tell your partnerwhat they're doing wrong and how
to fix it in the moment.
Right, that's a debrief type ofsituation.
Is what you're saying Like inthe moment?
Laura (40:29):
That is what.
Michaela (40:29):
I'm saying Don't do it right then, wait until they're
calm to have a conversationabout the things, because it
will not go through.
They will not remember becauseyou know you, you think about
this all the time.
You're like I we've had thisconversation a hundred times.
Why can you not figure out thatyou can't do X, y and Z?
Well, yeah, because you did itwhen they're like crying.
Laura (40:53):
Right, right.
And if I'm like super activatedin fight or flight, like my
thought process is literallylike, don't die.
It's not.
Like, let me please likeunderstand you know what I did
wrong in this moment.
Like it's, that's not what I'mtrying to do in that time.
Like if we had to cognitivelythink about every single action
(41:13):
that we were going to take overin fight or flight, it would
take us so long we would die.
Right, if I'm running from alion, I don't have time to
remember my grocery list.
That's not helping for me.
I need to turn that stuff off.
I need to turn off my thinkingbrain and I need to turn on my
body and my heart rate and mylung capacity and all of those
things.
I need to turn up the energyand turn down the thinking.
(41:38):
And so in that moment I can'tlearn.
Michaela (41:41):
No, which is also why our brakes are shut off right,
and so we're trying to get anoutcome or someone to do
something or something to happenin this elevated state and like
they yell at us or they want tolike kick us or punch us right,
like their brakes are shut offat this point, like their brain
(42:05):
is flooded with chemicals thatshut off the thinking brain and
the brakes are off and they'regoing to do things that are
maybe not great choices duringthat time.
So probably also a good idea tohelp them calm down or give
them time to calm down, becausewe're less likely to get a shoe
thrown at us.
Laura (42:25):
That's a good point.
I think we need to giveourselves space and time to get
calm or to get regulated, justto get back to neutral.
Right, we need to be neutral.
We don't even need to be calmand like relaxed.
That's like calm is like amisleading term, right.
Like when people think of calm,they think of like a hammock on
the beach.
That's not what I'm talkingabout here.
Like we're talking aboutneutral, like at least I know
(42:49):
I'm not going to die, I canhandle whatever's coming at me.
I'm okay enough that's kind ofmy phrase, for this is like I'm
okay enough, right, yeah, I likethat.
And so we need to get okayenough, right, what are maybe
one or two other ways that wecan reduce this impact of the
anxiety?
(43:09):
What can we do?
We've got slow motion, we'vegot slow breathing.
What are maybe one or two otherways that we can help slow down
or calm down or get back tookay enough?
Michaela (43:21):
or two other ways that we can help slow down or calm
down or get back to okay enough.
Yeah, I talk about like aguided imagery, sometimes as
another option, kind of in thatlike mindfulness kind of type of
thing.
So find your happy place andimagine what your happy place is
.
Happy place and imagine whatyour happy place is, some place
(43:45):
that has really no negativestuff that's happened, really
just tied to positive things.
Maybe it's a place you've been,maybe it's a place that you've
never been but you'd want to be,and so you know, you kind of
imagine yourself.
So, like, the most common thingis like a beach.
Right, I think of this lakethat I go to in Minnesota and
you just kind of imagineyourself there and you take
yourself through.
What does it look like?
(44:06):
What are you seeing?
What are you hearing?
Right, you can hear the wavesrushing onto the shore and you
can hear kids playing in thesand and making sand castles.
You can hear the birds.
You can smell the pine treesthat are all around you.
You can smell the lake and theway that smells and you can feel
(44:28):
the sand in your toes.
So you're kind of imaginingyourself there, you're immersing
yourself into the senses andyou're allowing that place to
provide a calm, safe space foryou to go to when you are kind
of needing that, you know, tocome back into a rest and digest
.
Laura (44:48):
That's really good.
As you were saying that, I evenwas like feeling it on my toes
and like listening to the waves.
I was trying to go through thatprocess and it did make me feel
more calm, even just in thismoment.
So I love that one.
That's a really good one.
It did make me feel more calmeven just in this moment.
So I love that one.
That's a really good one.
(45:08):
Another one that I think ofsometimes is to sort out just to
get order.
So sometimes, when we arefeeling really anxious and it's
because we're overwhelmed and wehave too many thoughts all at
one time, and so I like to kindof put my thoughts in buckets
all at one time.
And so I like to kind of put mythoughts in buckets, so like I
like to imagine that I have likea bucket or a container for
each like category of things,and then I can sort of visualize
putting all of those thoughtsinto that particular bucket.
(45:32):
So if I have maybe a red bucketfor the things that are like
bothering me right now, and thenI have a blue bucket for things
about work, and then I have ayellow bucket for things about,
you know, whatever else, likewhatever else that's bothering
me.
I can sort of sort out mythoughts into those buckets and
when I give my mind order then Ifind myself feeling more
(45:56):
settled, because sometimes Ithink the disorder and the
disorganization can make itreally difficult to bring
yourself back into like a stable, settled feeling.
Michaela (46:09):
I agree.
I think that as adults and kidstoo but as adults we have so
many things going on and so manythings that like checklists in
our brain that are undone, andit can really add to that
feeling of of inattention andlack of focus because we were
(46:31):
trying to accomplish one thing.
But we really have all thesesubconscious thoughts in the
back of our head of like oh, Ididn't do the laundry and I
better start dinner.
Or like I need to go to thegrocery store, don't forget to
get the ketchup, you know.
So we have all these thingsgoing on in the background that
we're not really actively alwaysthinking about, but it feels
(46:53):
like it's not done and it givesus that feeling like I'm
forgetting something, I didn'tdo the thing.
And so, like by potentiallybeing able to sort these things
into your buckets, you could getrid of some of that unsettled
feeling.
For someone like me who can'timagine a bucket and see it, I
feel like writing it down orlike having a thought of being
(47:17):
like oh, that would be the redbucket and just thinking about
like, oh, that's a red bucketthought, oh, that's a yellow
bucket thought, and kind of likejust thinking about it, like
that way could be also reallyhelpful for those people out
there that don't you know, seeimages in their brain.
Laura (47:34):
That's a perfect way to explain it.
Yeah, I love that.
I think these are reallyhelpful tools.
I'm going to use your guidedimagery and I'm going to try to
use your breathing technique andhopefully I'll be able to get
myself settled the next time.
I'm feeling a little anxious.
Yeah, I think.
Michaela (47:55):
I'm going to try your bucket thing and see if that
works to help organize all thoseundone tasks that I have.
Laura (48:02):
That sounds awesome.
Well, this was really great.
Thank you so much for thisconversation.
It was extra helpful and fun.
Yeah, thank you, and thank youfor listening to.
Why Am I Like this?
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, laura Wood and
(48:25):
Michelle Bieber.
Our theme song is Making EndsMeet by Thick as Thieves, and a
special thanks to BenefairyCounseling and Coaching and
Active Healing PsychiatricServices for sponsoring this
show.
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