April 1, 2025 • 44 mins
Sleep affects nearly every aspect of our lives, yet many of us struggle to understand why we can't fall asleep, stay asleep, or feel rested in the morning. We explore how childhood patterns, lifestyle habits, and environmental factors impact our sleep quality and offer practical solutions for better rest.
• Various types of sleep issues including trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, and early morning awakening
• How caffeine creates a vicious cycle that worsens sleep problems, especially as we age
• The negative impact of screens before bed on melatonin production and sleep quality
• Why consistency in sleep schedules is crucial for regulating our body's internal clock
• Cognitive patterns that create anxiety around sleep and how to challenge negative thoughts
• Environmental factors like room temperature (ideally 67°F) that promote better sleep
• The value of taking breaks throughout the day to practice calming your nervous system
• Why long-term solutions like CBT for insomnia work better than quick fixes
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Laura's Free Course on Emotional Development and Regulation:
https://benavieri.com/neuroception-sign-up/
This show is sponsored by:
Core Self
Benavieri Counseling & Coaching
www.benavieri.com
Active Healing Psychiatric Services
www.activehealingpsych.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura (00:02):
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:13):
And I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner.
Laura (00:18):
So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?
Michaela (00:22):
I'm so glad you asked.
We want to help you understandyourself a bit better, how the
things you learned aboutyourself and the world and
childhood are still affectingyou today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this, those random
things about ourselves that wemight wonder about, like why am
I so jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:43):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything all the time?
Laura (00:50):
Yes, and we are talking about sleep today.
So we're going to try to answerthe following questions why
can't I fall asleep, why can't Istay asleep, and how do I fix
my sleep issues?
So, mishayla, what is going onwith our sleep?
Michaela (01:11):
Such a good question.
I think that sleep is probablyone of the number one things
that people report to me assomething that they want to fix,
something that they think is amajor struggle for them.
I mean, and who doesn't?
Who wants to lay in bed andtoss and turn when everybody
(01:33):
else is asleep, the house isquiet.
How annoying is it that youjust can't shut your brain off.
You think to yourself I'm goingto feel terrible tomorrow, it's
going to be the worst.
I don't know about you, butI've had nights where I can't
sleep very well and it's reallyfrustrating.
Laura (01:51):
Well, yeah, and then you're like if I fall asleep
right now, I can get six hours.
If I fall asleep right now, Ican get five hours.
If I fall asleep right now, youknow.
And then I always think aboutlike tomorrow's going to be so
hard, like I already am likethinking about how bad I'm going
to feel the next day when Ican't sleep at night.
Like a lot of the time for meI'll be laying there and I'll
(02:14):
fall asleep quick, but then I'llwake up like in a couple of
hours, and then I'll like lookaround.
I'll not know what's going on.
I'll check the time, like is itmorning?
It's not morning.
And then I'm like I okay, Ihave to go back to sleep.
And then I'm like why am Iawake right now?
And then I kind of go back tosleep and then I wake up again.
A lot of times I wake up inpain and I'm like why am I like
(02:35):
my hips hurt, or my legs areasleep, like weird, or my arms
are asleep, or something likethat.
And so I'm not comfortable, soI have to readjust, and then I
can't get comfortable.
It's just a nightmare.
Michaela (02:48):
Yeah, it's so hard, I know for me, most nights I sleep
great.
I know guys are going to hateme for saying that, but most
nights I sleep wonderful.
The problem is is I have athing that I'm worried about.
I'm behind on something, Iforgot to do something, and then
(03:08):
all of a sudden that thing iswaking me up in the middle of
the night and I'm like Iliterally can't even take care
of it right now.
Why do you?
Why do I care?
And then you know you, you knowyou do the things that you do,
that know that you know how tohelp you go back to sleep.
And then you're up againthinking about the thing and
you're like just stop thinkingabout it, I don't want to think
(03:29):
about this anymore.
Like I put it, like I wrote anote, I said something by my bed
, I wrote it out.
I'm like it's, it's right there, I don't need to think about
this right now.
I can't fix it.
Your brain just doesn't want tostop trying to think about the
thing and it can be reallyfrustrating.
Laura (03:45):
That is frustrating when you can't solve it right now.
Like often for something likethat, I'll use a container
strategy, like a mentalcontainer strategy, where I'm
like okay, let me put this inits box in my brain and I'll set
it aside and I'll remember itlater.
I wrote it down like writing itdown as a great strategy, Like,
but you just can't fall asleep.
(04:07):
I think that your brain is likeif I solve this, then I can
rest, yeah.
You know what I mean.
Like it's like it needs you tosolve it so that you can relax,
but you can't relax until yousolve it.
Michaela (04:21):
Well, so backing up a little bit here, so there's
multiple types of sleep issues,right.
So we have trouble fallingasleep, we have trouble staying
asleep, and then we have earlymorning awakening issues that
like you wake up and then likeit's five and you have to wake
up in an hour and then you justcan't like your brain just won't
(04:43):
let you go back to sleep, andsome people can have a
combination of these issues orit's really just more one thing
that is causing that problem.
So we talked about, likeworrying about stuff that we
have to do or that we forgot todo.
What are some other reasons whywe might have troubles, like
with sleep?
Laura (05:02):
Trouble falling asleep.
Sometimes it's about likecaffeine, like you're jittery or
you're like pumped up.
Maybe you just did got homefrom something exciting and
you're like amped up a littlebit.
You have adrenaline fromsomething going on at home.
Sometimes like thinking about,obviously like ruminating and
thinking about stuff can beabout things that are happening
(05:25):
like in your house right then.
Like did I forget to turn offthe stove?
Did I forget to lock the door?
Did I forget?
You know that kind of stuffLike.
So it's not always futureworries that are getting you.
Sometimes it's like justnighttime routine stuff.
Like did I do all the thingsthat I'm supposed to do?
And then you have to get backup out of bed to go check.
Sometimes your body just can'tsettle down, like people who are
(05:49):
fidgety and move a lot and justdon't.
They need more time to slowdown and relax their nervous
system to start settling intosleep.
Michaela (05:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that you mentionedcaffeine, because that's
definitely a huge issue because,like, we all of a sudden get
into the cycle where we're like,oh, I didn't sleep well, so I'm
going to use caffeine to helpme stay awake, and then the
caffeine now is the reason whywe can't fall asleep, and so
then we keep using more caffeinetrying to fix it, and then our
sleep just continues to getworse.
(06:19):
So that can be a huge problem.
I was also thinking, whenyou're talking like a fight with
our spouse, like maybe we hadan argument or a disagreement
with a family member before bedand that's, you know, waking us
up.
Sometimes working out and doinga too aggressive of a workout
like we think exercise is goingto make us feel better, but
sometimes doing that likeworkout too close to bedtime can
(06:42):
also disrupt our sleep.
Like workout too close tobedtime can also disrupt our
sleep.
Um, and then I like that youmentioned like fidgetiness, like
you know, um, adhd, uh, clientswith ADHD do have a lot of
delayed sleep onset.
Um, delayed onset sleep issues,um, like they just um, can't
(07:02):
stop until they just kind oflike crash, until they get to
this and it's like their brainis just going, their body's
going and they can't settle ininto sleep, which is not all
people with ADHD, you know, somepeople with ADHD can't, you
know, especially if they don'thave hyperactivity, they might
not have problems shutting offtheir brain, because you know we
have a lot of those, you knowissues getting things that are
(07:25):
going on in the brain to getthrough, and so we're not really
thinking about a lot of things,right, and so those people can
tend to have a lot easier timefalling asleep.
Laura (07:35):
Yeah, and then when they fall asleep, they have a hard
time staying asleep at times,like waking up throughout the
night, like I was mentioningwith me.
I wake up a thousand times andfor a billion reasons, and
sometimes I can fall asleepquickly after I wake up, but
other times I can't, and so whenI am waking up I might not even
(07:56):
have a real reason, like maybethere's nothing going on in my
head, maybe I'm just waking upbecause I heard a sound and now
I can't fall back asleep, orsomething like that.
Michaela (08:05):
Would you say that you're a light sleeper, or do
you?
Are you pretty deep?
Laura (08:16):
I'm not a light sleeper.
Like people can talk to me andI've actually been known to have
full conversations in my sleepand I'm not awake for them, and
so my kids.
It used to be a rule that, like, if they're talking to me and
they know that I'm asleep, likewhatever I say doesn't count,
because they would be like yousaid we could go do this, or you
said we could have this, or yousaid this, I'm like no, that's
not fair.
You're taking advantage of thesituation.
(08:36):
Like they would always try totalk to me when I was sleeping,
or if I'm like laying down.
So I always used to say, likeif I'm laying down, when I give
you the answer, like the answeris no, you can't, you know.
Like you can't count on thatinformation because I will
respond, but I'll stay asleep.
That's so funny.
That is like I think sometimesthere's like I think my brain is
(09:01):
always partially, is like onlypartially asleep, but I'm not
getting that deep sleep.
Like I think that's what'shappening for me.
Michaela (09:12):
That can be hard.
Do you find that that's morelike during that, like a nap in
the afternoon, or is that likeat nighttime?
Laura (09:19):
Well, definitely during a nap, Like I don't think I fall
asleep during naps, but I knowthat the time went by and I
don't feel like it was a normalamount of time, so like it goes
by fast, like sleep does, so itfeels like it feels like I was
sleeping, but I wasn't reallysleeping, cause I know that I
was fully aware of everythingthat was going on the entire
time.
Michaela (09:38):
Yeah, I don't, I don't , I don't nap.
I'd like if I, if I like, canactually sleep in the afternoon.
It is like I have to be like sotired you know, yeah, um, this
week we had our conference thatwe went to, and then we and then
I just had a full packed day.
I went, we got up at like youknow early, went to you know the
(10:01):
ski hill and took our kidsskiing and I napped in the car.
But like it was not, like I'mkind of awake, aware of what's
going on around me, but likethat's a rarity to be able to
just like find myself asleepdoing nothing else.
But I, I walk in my sleep andmy brother always tells me he
(10:21):
always tells this really funnystory of when we were, when I
was in grad school and he wasliving with me in Iowa and I
don't know, I was having a dreamthat I needed to plug my phone
in.
I vaguely remember that partand I left my bedroom, I grabbed
my phone from my bedroom andthen tried to plug it in out on
(10:41):
in the living room and he's likewhat are you doing?
And I literally walk out thereand I'm like messing with my
phone and then I like set itdown and then I go back into the
other room.
Yeah, but I was plugging in myphone.
That's so funny Waking up as akid I remember waking up in
weird places.
Like I woke up with my bed, my,my blanket, in the bathroom.
(11:08):
Yeah, okay, yeah, weird, right.
Yeah, something that wassupposed to be working in my
brain was not working.
Yeah, the deep sleep.
So, um, and then I've been toldthat I'm not very nice in my
sleep.
So if you try to like get me togo, if I've like fall asleep on
the couch, and you try to getme to go to the bedroom, go to
bed or whatever, like, yeah,don't, don't do that, I'm not
apparently very nice.
(11:28):
I don't know what I said, butit's not great.
Laura (11:32):
That's really funny.
I am difficult to move.
Like once I go to sleep,nobody's getting me to move.
Like my kids will try to wakeme up.
Like last night I fell asleepon the couch and I know that
they turned off the TV cause Iwas watching something on TV and
when I woke up there was no TV.
The TV was not on and normallyit'll just keep playing and
playing forever Like it was.
(11:53):
It won't just like stop, and soI know they turned off the TV.
My dogs were still like with meon the couch, Like I didn't put
anybody to bed, Like I justcompletely fell asleep and they
probably tell me hey, you know,get up and go upstairs.
Like you're asleep now, Likeit's time for bed and I'm just
like okay, and then I don't likeI'll say I will, I'll be like,
(12:22):
yeah, okay, and then I justcompletely ignore them and go
back to sleep.
Michaela (12:26):
Yeah, that's too funny .
Um, do you think that yoursleep has changed Cause your
kids are all older, you know alot more self-sufficient, like?
I feel like I was a very deepsleeper before.
Now that I have kids andthey're young, I like I hear
every noise and it's so annoyingthat my husband never hears
when the kids wake up in themiddle of the night.
Okay, no, not never, but like,most of the time I feel like I
(12:48):
always wake up and I hear allthe noises, but I wasn't always
like that.
Laura (12:54):
I think my sleep has changed from the perspective
that I'm not as exhausted.
So like I used to be so tiredthat I would fall asleep and
stay asleep and wake up likelate, like I couldn't even wake
up in the morning.
Like I was so exhausted all thetime that I just couldn't
function and could barely evenwake up, like to get to work on
(13:15):
time.
So I'm not like that anymore.
So now I can wake up in themorning and feed my dogs, and
like I'm not really mad about it.
Like I used to be so furiouswhen my alarm would go off Cause
I'm like, no, I'm not ready.
Like I need more sleep.
And and I'm not like thatanymore Like it's a lot easier
(13:36):
for me now to wake up in themorning without being cranky.
Michaela (13:43):
Yeah, well, that's good.
I bet that feels a lot better,it does feel better and it's
hope for people out there thataren't morning people about,
like maybe there's a chance thatyou can kind of become less of,
you know, you can have more ofthat morning spirit and stuff.
But I think you know we we were, you know, talking to a
colleague this week and we weretalking about like sleep and
(14:06):
insomnia and like she introducedthe idea of like the, the sleep
doctor and things about thatteach, telling us that like
maybe that there's just adifference, like some of us just
have different naturalcircadian rhythms for sleep and
maybe we don't all have to bethe same, even though most of us
are morning people, like yousaid, like 55% of people are
(14:31):
morning people and they can getup and they feel the best, you
know, in that in those morninghours getting things done, you
know between like 10 and two orsomething, and feeling pretty
good.
Some of us are just not morningpeople and naturally, you know
we that probably doesn't changea whole lot in our lifetime.
Laura (14:52):
Yeah, I used to like wish I was asleep.
When I was awake Like all thetime, I'm like I just would like
focus.
Sleep was like a huge focus forme all the time.
Like I would be thinking aboutsleep.
So if I would wake up in themorning and have to be awake and
doing something, all I would bethinking is like I wish I could
be sleeping right now and solike I'm not like preoccupied by
(15:12):
my sleep anymore, even thoughmy sleep is not as restful, I
don't think like I don't thinkthat I'm getting as deep of
sleep as I used to when I waslike super duper tired all the
time, because now I'm likewaking up at night where I never
did that before, but it doesn'tlike it's not as intrusive like
in my life, like just likewishing I could go to bed
(15:33):
earlier or like needing moresleep before work or something
like that.
Michaela (15:38):
Well, that's the thing that I find is really common in
, as you know, we get older Idon't want to say that, but,
like, as we, as our hormoneschange and our life changes,
sometimes that is a very commonthing, especially like 10 years
before that menopausal timeperiod.
You know, a lot of times womenare starting to see those
(15:59):
progesterone levels go down andso sometimes it can be a hormone
imbalance that could becreating some of those sleep
problems.
I hear a lot of like increasedanxiety or like problems staying
asleep at night being probablyone of the most common things.
So you know there's definitelyhormone issues that can happen.
The other thing that, like Ialways screen patients on, is,
(16:22):
you know when they're sayingthat they have problems sleeping
or they feel really tiredduring the day.
You know there are sleepdisorders that aren't talked
about very often.
So you know there is apercentage of people that can
have narcolepsy withoutcataplexy.
And when I talk about this,about this, to clients, they're
like what I'm not just likefalling asleep at my desk or in
(16:42):
my food or whatever you know,but the fact is is that you
don't have to have that likefalling asleep thing.
It's that like you're justextremely tired during the day
and could sleep during thedaytime.
You know, if you're sittingback watching a show or like
relaxing for a few minutes, thenyou could be out and you're
oftentimes seeing that they'regoing into that REM sleep very
(17:04):
quickly, so they fall asleep anddream really quickly.
As you know, one of the thingsalso looking at like restless
leg and you know differentdisorders where we're we're
often like feeling like our legsare really restless and kicking
a lot could be anothercontributing factor to.
You know people who think thatthey're sleeping through the
night but also or it could wakethem up, but there's, there may
(17:26):
be sleeping through the night,but they're not getting that
quality sleep because of ofthese like restless leg
movements.
Laura (17:33):
So like what are some of the other we kind of mentioned?
Like most people are morningpeople, right?
Like what are some of the othergroups of sleepers?
Like how does that look forother people?
Michaela (17:47):
Um, well, I think some people are night people, right,
they're.
They're going to, you know,feel the most energy in the
evening time.
Um, you know, there's just adifferent like circadian rhythms
for for different people.
Some people might get a burstof energy, you know, they might
(18:07):
have a little bit in theafternoon and then they're
feeling really like energetictowards the evening time.
So, you know, different peoplewill have different, like you
know, circadian rhythms fortheir body, just like, even with
nutrition, right, like somepeople don't feel hungry in the
morning.
Well, that has to do with likethe chrononutrition or like
(18:29):
clock in our body telling uswhen we're hungry, when we're
not hungry, and some of that wehave to start trying to build on
, like the more we don't dosomething right, like with
eating, if we don't eatbreakfast and we're never going
to be a breakfast person butstart eating breakfast, we could
, we could become a breakfastperson.
And I think that the same isprobably true to some degree
(18:52):
with sleep.
Obviously, like some sleeptraining works in some people.
We're not going toautomatically be morning people,
you know, but we can try to getinto a better rhythm and we can
.
We do that by doing good sleephygiene practices.
You know, maybe we really are aperson that has good, normal
circadian, could have normalcircadian rhythm, but we
(19:13):
wouldn't know unless we try.
We get stuck into thesepatterns of, you know, sleeping
in in the morning when we canand then, you know, going to bed
late when we can, and we kindof have a schedule that's all
over the place, and so wewouldn't know if it's really
just a circadian rhythm, likethat's just our jam, versus it
being poor sleep habits.
(19:35):
And so I think the first thingthat we would want to do is make
sure that we're following thesegood sleep habits so that we
can, you know, see if we can bethe most successful possible,
right, and so you know, I knowwe talked about daytime
activities, like avoiding a lotof caffeine late in the day.
Some people it's 2pm, somepeople it's noon, some people
(19:55):
it's earlier.
The older we get, the less wecan metabolize caffeine, and so
more caffeine is going to hangaround longer in our system.
So people will be like I'vebeen drinking eight cups of
coffee my whole life.
What do you mean?
I have to stop drinking coffee,right, and it's like well, your
body could metabolize it beforeand now it's having a hard time
metabolizing it.
(20:15):
So we can't be drinking coffeeall day.
And I think even for peoplethat are like, oh, I fall asleep
so easily with coffee, likecoffee makes me fall asleep and
it's like, okay, that's fine, itmight make you fall asleep, but
what else is the coffee and thecaffeine doing to your nervous
system?
It's probably increasingcortisol, like it's doing other
(20:40):
things, and it's probably goingto lead to you having problems
with sleeping through the nightas well.
So sometimes that's a problem.
Like we talked about working outnapping.
Some people are nappers andthey can nap and they can have a
full night's sleep, and that'sgreat.
But when we start seeing thatnap intruding on our nighttime
sleep, then it's maybe time toreevaluate the nap, and that may
(21:00):
not happen right away, but overtime it could be happening.
And so then you can say, well,I've been napping for you know,
forever and now, well, maybe nowit is impacting your sleep at
night because we need less sleepas we age.
Maybe Right, and so the rulesof napping are going to be like
no more than 90 minutes and nomore than like five hours.
(21:25):
You need to be up at least forfive hours after the nap before.
You're like wanting to go tobed, and so that's going to help
protect that nighttime sleep.
I mean, you think about babies,right?
We always made sure that theyhad they're not napping too
close to bedtime, or otherwiseour bedtime routine is going to
be thrown off, and so we're justlike we're.
They're just little humans,similar to us, so we need to
(21:46):
follow the rules too.
And then protecting yourbedtime routine is huge.
So I know that, like, this isthe my least popular
conversation that I have withpeople.
People really don't want tolisten.
People think, like the TV makesme fall asleep.
The TV helps me fall asleep,which I don't discount.
I don't.
I think that that's true.
(22:06):
It's a distraction of yourbrain, right, and it's a very
successful distraction.
And so you know, turning onFriends for the 1800th time,
you've seen all the episodes.
You know that it's going to putyou to sleep.
But you're not also taking intoconsideration your brain.
Brains want to finish things,brains want to know what's going
on.
And so, even if you're asleep,are you really in that deep
(22:29):
sleep because your mind ishearing what's going on in the
background?
You know, if you're watchingsomething that you've never seen
before, it's exciting.
You can get that adrenalinerush and you can literally, if
you pay attention to your bodyenough, you can feel like your
heart is a little bit fasterthan what it would normally be
before bedtime and you can feelthe difference when you go a
long time without watching showsat nighttime, and then you do.
(22:52):
You can feel the difference inyour body and how it reacts to
sleep at bedtime when you'retrying to bring down for the day
.
It's really, it's really crazy.
So you know, turning the TV offand I forgot to mention that,
like the light from the TV isalso catastrophic for for sleep.
You know that light is going tobe decreasing that natural
(23:14):
production of melatonin, becauseyou know that's what's.
That's how our brains weredesigned to see.
Oh, it's nighttime, right, it'stime to start shutting down,
it's time to go to sleep, and sohaving all the lights in the
house on and on, bright, andwatching TV and being on your
phone scrolling, those are allgoing to make really big impacts
on your sleep.
And so if you want to have thebest sleep possible, you do
(23:37):
really want to make sure that anhour before bed, you're kind of
shutting all those things down.
You're turning the lights down.
You're dimming them so that youcan, kind of like, let your
brain start recognizing it'stime for sleep.
Laura (23:49):
Yeah, those are all really good and they make
perfect sense.
You know what I mean.
Like, when you're saying thisstuff, it's like oh yeah, no,
that makes sense.
Like I feel really called outabout the caffeine.
I'm just saying, um, because Iknow we just spent two days
together and you watched medrink like 700 diet Cokes a day.
Um, and I will drink them rightbefore bed, like, and I think
(24:13):
it's fine because I can fallasleep.
But, like, as you're talking,I'm thinking, oh, maybe that's
why I can't stay asleep, maybethat's why I'm waking up all the
time, like for no reason andbecause I don't feel necessarily
anxious.
I just feel like I'm notresting.
You know what I mean and I thinkyou know sometimes there's
other things that can contributeto not being able to sleep,
(24:34):
like depression, anxiety andother like mood disorders and
difficulties with your mentalhealth, like a high level of
stress, like all of those thingscan make it really hard for you
to fall asleep or stay asleep,and it's really important to
take care of your mental health,and part of that is like taking
care of your nutrition, right?
(24:55):
Like I feel like often we try toisolate these things and we say
like, oh well, it's just thisone thing, Like it's this one
area of my life, but it's notit's.
You're a whole person and youhave a lot of variables that are
impacting how things are goingfor you, and so nutrition is a
really important component ofsleep too.
(25:15):
Like there's foods that you caneat that cause, or that there's
foods that you can eat thatactually, like create more
calming effects than other foods, and there's foods that you can
eat that create like energizingeffects as well.
Right, like if you're eating alot of sugary foods or
carbohydrates, like close tobedtime, you know you might get
(25:36):
that like coma, like the pastakind of coma or whatever, but
that's not sustained sleepiness.
That's just like I'm digestingreally hard food, really food
that's hard to digest and thattakes a lot of energy, but it's
going to turn into energy onceit's digested.
Like so now I'm going to end upwith more energy at the end.
Michaela (25:57):
Yes, oh yeah, I love that you brought that up.
I think that that's so on pointand it made me think about
alcohol.
So often do people say like, ohyeah, I'm going to, I drink my
glass of wine and then I don'thave any problems falling asleep
.
But then they're waking up atthree o'clock in the morning
when that alcohol is being, youknow, digested and it's not
(26:22):
making you have the sleepyeffects and you're having even
actually like, maybe highersugar or lower sugar, depending
on the timing of things and howyou're, you know what medicines
you're taking and whatnot.
But like you know, we, you knowwe wake up, you know, so
thirsty in the middle of thenight after having a drink to
(26:43):
put us to sleep, and then nowwe're awake and we don't.
Now we're not tired to go backto sleep again.
So alcohol can be a really bigcomponent of like waking up in
the middle of the night.
Laura (26:55):
Yeah, and you know with that, with alcohol too, like you
wake up just not feeling asclear headed.
So like the morning is harder,when, if you're somebody who's
not a morning person already andthen you're waking up after a
night of having a couple ofdrinks before going to bed, then
, like you're going to wake up,your brain's going to be foggy,
you're not going to be clear,you're not going to be feeling
(27:16):
refreshed because you had, youknow, like that crash and then
the like, you know, the sugarrush and then all you know what
I mean.
Like all of these differentdisruptors that have happened
throughout the night, you're notgoing to feel refreshed in the
morning.
You're not going to feel likespry.
First thing.
When your alarm goes off, readyto go, you're going to hit it,
you're going to be hittingsnooze, you know, at least 27
(27:38):
times before you wake up in themorning.
Michaela (27:41):
Yeah, absolutely Well, and the you know we talked a
lot about like nighttime thingsthat you can do and so.
But, like morning time,starting your day at the same
time of day consistently is alsoanother factor that can
contribute to having bettersleep at night, because your
(28:01):
body is following a rhythm rightand knows what to expect, and
so if we're waking up at thesame time of day, we're more
likely to be tired at the sametime of day.
But if we're, like you know,you know, sleeping in like a
teenager I mean, I liked mysleep a lot when I was a
teenager I'm telling you not nojudgment here, but like, oh yeah
, you know we're, we're sleepingin where you know we're getting
(28:24):
our day started later, we'rehaving our caffeine later, we're
doing all these things later inthe day, and so then we're,
we're having a harder timegetting to bed that night and
then we just, you know, kind ofnever get back on track.
Um, there was also anotherstudy that said it's better to
go to bed at the same time ofnight every night versus like
(28:44):
variable times.
Like you think you're doingyourself a good favor.
You're like I went to bed atnine o'clock last night.
I got a solid, not 10 hours ofsleep, I'm great.
Like you think that you'rereally doing your body, you know
the service, you're catching upon things, but they they show
that it's actually better foryou to go to bed, even if it's
just a little bit later, but tobe more consistent with that
(29:05):
sleep, again supporting thatbody's natural clock of finding
a rhythm of sleep and then justbeing consistent with that.
I think someone was saying thatlike seven hours is probably
like the sweet spot for sleep,like you can get too much sleep
and so, like some people feellike a little bit more tired if
they get, you know, eight and ahalf hours of sleep, where they
(29:27):
feel the best when they geteight hours of sleep.
And so finding that like magic,you know time for your own body
and then setting your clockaround, that can be helpful.
Laura (29:37):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, like having just the
rhythm so that your body can getused to it.
Similarly, to sleep like you'retraining your brain.
You're training your brain toget used to something that
happens at the same time everyday, and it's like wires
together, fires together, we sayall the time we heard that a
thousand times over the pastcouple of days but we're
(30:00):
training our brain to know thatlike, oh, it's around this time
I'm going to start getting tired, I'm going to start producing
that melatonin, I'm going tostart looking for, you know,
winding down opportunities, andso we're ready to give our body
a break at that time.
And that's really important toyour body's ability to calm down
.
It needs to have a routine, itneeds to know what to expect,
(30:21):
because otherwise, if it'sexpecting things to just be
chaotic and anything goesanytime, it's not going to know
what to do.
It's not going to be able toget into that mode as easily.
Some things that I recommend topeople who have a hard time
relaxing is to take breaksthroughout the day and calm
(30:43):
yourself down, even if you don'tthink you're not calm like you
might think you're fine, but youneed to take a break just a
random time throughout the day,like three or four times, and
just intentionally calm yourselfdown, because what you're
teaching yourself how to do iscalm down in any moment and then
, when you need it, you'll beable to use it, because you
(31:05):
don't want that to be a gametime decision.
You don't want your body tohave to practice when it's time
to fall asleep.
You want to set yourself up forsuccess by having a routine
where your body can predictwhat's going to happen next.
And then, when you calmyourself down throughout the day
, you're giving yourself thatblueprint like oh, now I know
how to do this, so I can do itwhen I need it.
Michaela (31:28):
Yeah, it's like muscle memory it when I need it.
Yeah, it's like muscle memory.
Exactly, that makes a lot ofsense.
I think that that's a reallygood point.
I was also thinking about, likeyou know, we kind of alluded to
like having a lot of cognitivedistortions or like mental
mistakes surrounding thethoughts about bad sleep, and I
(31:53):
know that this is one of thecornerstone things in cognitive
behavioral therapy for insomnia.
But it's like helping likecognitive restructuring around
those thoughts and those beliefsaround sleep.
So like I might thinktomorrow's going to be terrible,
but is it really ever as bad asI think it's going to be?
(32:14):
No, Right.
And so we start to.
You know, I always tell peopleit's like Pavlov's dogs, right?
So we have all this tossing andturning that happens in our bed
and it's kind of that classicconditioning, you know thing
that's going on.
It's like we are feeding thedogs and we ring the bell.
(32:34):
Now the bell signifies food forthe dog.
Now, even thinking about bedmeans I'm going to not sleep
good.
I'm going to toss and turn.
What happens tomorrow and I'mnot saying that like people who
have had severe insomnia daysand days on end don't feel like
the worst.
(32:55):
It is terrible, and I'm notdiscounting that part of it.
I'm talking more about like theeveryday person that has these,
like you know these, has hadbad sleep and has, you know,
kind of got stuck in this, inthis pattern.
So like what would you, whatwould you suggest someone do?
Or like ways that they can helpwork them, walk themselves
(33:17):
through how to improve some ofthose negative thoughts?
Laura (33:20):
I mean, I think to challenge those thoughts is
important, creating like avisualization maybe of like what
you want to feel like the nextday, or creating a relaxing
visualization.
Even listening to some sleepmusic can help those thoughts
just fade away a little bit.
(33:41):
I listen to sleep musicsometimes on my phone before bed
and it helps me calm my brain.
It tells my brain, oh, it'stime to be calm because the calm
music is coming on.
And so when I hear my calmmusic my brain is like, oh, fire
, that is wired with this.
I'm going to fire at the sametime to start going to sleep.
(34:01):
And it also focusing on thecalm music that doesn't have any
words or anything like that,just focusing on the melody
helps my brain not focus on thethoughts.
So there's like one just just,it's a distraction, it's a way
to focus on something else,focus my attention on something
helpful instead of somethingthat's not as helpful, and those
(34:24):
thoughts aren't helping meright now.
So the other thing is tochallenge the negative thoughts,
like just kind of let them knowthat there's other
possibilities, right, liketomorrow doesn't have to be
terrible, like okay, maybe lastnight was really hard, but
tonight doesn't have to be Justbecause it happened before
doesn't mean it's going tohappen again.
So reminding myself thatanything can happen now and that
(34:46):
every night is a newopportunity to get better sleep
and have a better time.
And so I think that using someof those strategies could help
retrain your brain to be lesslike dread, less right, like
(35:08):
it's that feeling of dread.
What you were describing.
It's like this, I'm dreadinglaying down, because I know it's
just feeling of dread.
What you were describing it'slike this, I'm dreading laying
down, because I know it's justgoing to be hard.
But changing changing yourenvironment is going to show
yourself that there's somethingdifferent about this.
It doesn't have to be the same.
So maybe get a fresh set ofsheets, maybe, um, make a change
to the layout of your room orhang some nice calming pictures,
(35:31):
like things that you like, like, um, change the color scheme,
make a change in yourenvironment that can also like,
give yourself an opportunity toreset.
So like, cause what wirestogether, fires together.
You're taking out all thethings that remind you, like
you're basically getting a newbell instead of the old bell.
You're getting a new bell andyou're retraining your brain to
do something different.
Michaela (35:52):
Yeah, I love that.
I think that's a great plan.
So we've talked about, like,different ways to set the
intention for sleep.
We've talked about things thatwe can get rid of, things that
we can add in.
Is there anything else that youcan think of that might help
(36:14):
with, like the, you know, theoverall sleep health of somebody
?
Laura (36:21):
The thing that you mentioned before about exercise,
like not exercising too closeto bedtime, but exercising at
some point throughout your day,like being active, is one thing
that I always recommend too.
Like going for a 20 minute walkevery day is so helpful for your
brain and your body and itgives yourself, like, it gives
(36:42):
your brain, time to focus ondifferent things, like don't
bring your phone, don't havelike, don't be checking it, just
if you are listening to musicthat's fine, but you know to try
to go for a 20-minute walkwhere you're not, you know,
engaging with your device, andso you're giving yourself time
to recognize, like, what calmlooks like.
(37:02):
A lot of the time, I think it'sthat we just don't know what
calm looks like.
We don't know how that feels inour bodies, we don't know.
And those activities that youcan do, like if you're
exercising a little bit, like itreleases a lot of important
neurochemicals that allow yourbody to optimally perform, and
some of those is like serotoninand some of that is, um, you
(37:26):
know, the ability to uh, to restafterward, right, like so when
you've got this workout going,or when you're walking, you know
you're exerting energy, butyour body has to like constantly
regulate in that moment.
So it's practicing you're.
You're building muscles, butyou're also building like, your
internal muscle, to come backdown from, from getting worked
(37:47):
up Like.
I think it's just a reallyimportant exercise for your mind
as well.
Michaela (37:53):
Yeah, when you were saying that, I was thinking like
, oh my gosh, when I run Iprocess through all the things
that I'd probably be likethinking about at nighttime.
So like I'm giving myself anlike just even giving yourself
an opportunity during the day tolike think about things or like
have space for that might takeit away at nighttime.
(38:14):
The other thing I was thinkingabout is like um fight or flight
.
So you know, a lot of thethings come back to the
sympathetic nervous systemarousal.
What happens?
I don't know if anybody haslike an aura ring or like
something that tracks theirsleep at nighttime, whatever.
When you don't get good sleepat nighttime, what happens?
(38:37):
Your sympathetic nervous systemarousal is generally higher.
And so by just getting lesssleep you're setting yourself up
to almost have your amygdalasmoke detector be more sensitive
.
I think I wonder you know yeah.
Laura (38:53):
I think that's true.
I think because it lessens yourwindow of tolerance.
Right Like it, it closes thatwindow a little bit because your
body's having to work on lessresources, so you don't have the
resources you need in order tomaintain a level of calm and
settled and safe throughout theday.
Michaela (39:13):
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
And you know, even calls intoyou know who hasn't had like a
bad night's sleep or like justdidn't have opportunity to,
things were so busy, whatever.
And then the next day they'repretty grumpy, like they're
short with all.
They just don't, we just don'tfeel like ourselves.
(39:34):
And so I think that, likeyou're what you're talking about
about, like taking breaksduring the day and making sure
that we're like havingopportunity to calm our nervous
systems, definitely going to behelpful at decreasing and
improving our window oftolerance and lowering that
threshold where we feel like wecan be operating at like a
better, closer to our baseline.
Laura (39:56):
Absolutely yeah.
So we have our sleepenvironment that we can change.
We have our sleep schedule,like our routine, nighttime
routine, that we can change.
We can change the sights andsounds that we have before bed.
We can change our mentalmindset about bedtime and what
that looks like.
We can use strategies for ournutrition and for our health
(40:19):
that are outside of sleep, stufflike what we don't already
think about, like alcoholconsumption, caffeine
consumption.
There's so many things that wecan do to improve our sleep, so
I think we start with those andthen kind of see where it goes
from there.
Michaela (40:38):
I agree A couple of things that I was thinking that
we could add to that list is theoptimal sleep temperature is
probably I think it's 67 degrees, um, so having it cooler and
the house actually promotesbetter sleep at nighttime.
Um, and then you know, what areyou sleeping on?
(40:59):
Who hasn't slept on a crappymattress or a couch?
Cause there, cause you werestaying over somewhere and, of
course, like you were, yeah, orjust cause you fell asleep on
the couch, right?
You know that environment isprobably going to be more
conducive for waking up with hippain or like headaches or neck
(41:20):
aches and things like that, andthat's gonna definitely not make
us feel better.
So, being mindful of like, is ittime to upgrade your mattress?
And like, making sure that wehave a budget that's saving
towards ensuring that we canhave the best place to sleep,
you know, I know beds,mattresses are super expensive,
but they're definitely worth itif you can, you know.
(41:44):
And then you know just makingsure your temperature is down
lower, which can be really hardin my house.
I know that the kids that, likeone of the kids bedrooms is
more likely to be cooler orwarmer or whatever, and so it's
hard to adjust the temperatureso everybody has the best you
know sleep possible.
So I know that it's not alwayseasy to do, but you can do the
best that you can to make surethat it's the best environment.
Laura (42:06):
Yeah, and it's so worth it to take some of these steps,
even if you only take a coupleof them, like take some of these
steps, even if you only take acouple of them, like take some
of these small steps to improvethe quality of your life overall
.
Michaela (42:15):
Yeah, I was going to say too there are some
supplements that can helppromote better sleep, and so,
you know, that's something thatwe would talk about, like in a
consultation to help youunderstand a little bit more
about what options might be thebest for you particularly.
(42:35):
But like, magnesium is alwaysone of the ones that I throw out
there.
I've found success, like withtreating restless leg.
You know, improving anythinglike that.
Cramps, you know, can improvewith magnesium.
You don't have to, you know,always ingest it either.
You can do like an Epsom saltbath type thing that magnesium
salts can soak into the skin sothat it doesn't have as much
havoc on, like, your GI tractand things like that.
So there's definitely likesupplements, but like, the one
(42:58):
thing that I want you to knowabout sleep is that it is not a
quick fix when it has taken usyears to create bad habits
around sleep, and I know thatit's like one of the most
frustrating things that we wantto just like fix right, like
right now, and I know that it'slike one of the most frustrating
things that we want to justlike fix right, like right now.
And there's medicines that wecan use and things that we can
use to help you get better sleepimmediately.
(43:19):
But ultimately, if you, if theresearch shows the best long
lasting results for sleep, isgoing to be using the cognitive
behavioral therapy for insomnia,for, like good sleep hygiene,
doing these things, it has thelongest lasting effects.
Yeah.
Laura (43:35):
So it's not like it's not a fast, easy fix, but it's
worth the time and energy andeffort to take some steps that
you can take right away, smallsteps, even, and um, and then go
from there.
Yeah Well, thank you so much.
This was very enlightening andI think I'm going to take some
(43:56):
steps of mine for to improve mysleep hygiene.
I've learned a little bit.
I'm going to maybe switch todecaf We'll see what happens, Um
, but I really appreciate youand this conversation and thank
you for listening to why am ILike this?
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
(44:17):
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, Laura Wood and
Michaela Beaver.
Our theme song is Making EndsMeet by Thick as Thieves, and a
special thanks to BenavieriCounseling and Active Healing
Psychiatric Services forsponsoring our show.
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:13):
And I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner.
Laura (00:18):
So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?
Michaela (00:22):
I'm so glad you asked.
We want to help you understandyourself a bit better, how the
things you learned aboutyourself and the world and
childhood are still affectingyou today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this, those random
things about ourselves that wemight wonder about, like why am
I so jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:43):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything all the time?
Laura (00:50):
Yes, and we are talking about sleep today.
So we're going to try to answerthe following questions why
can't I fall asleep, why can't Istay asleep, and how do I fix
my sleep issues?
So, mishayla, what is going onwith our sleep?
Michaela (01:11):
Such a good question.
I think that sleep is probablyone of the number one things
that people report to me assomething that they want to fix,
something that they think is amajor struggle for them.
I mean, and who doesn't?
Who wants to lay in bed andtoss and turn when everybody
(01:33):
else is asleep, the house isquiet.
How annoying is it that youjust can't shut your brain off.
You think to yourself I'm goingto feel terrible tomorrow, it's
going to be the worst.
I don't know about you, butI've had nights where I can't
sleep very well and it's reallyfrustrating.
Laura (01:51):
Well, yeah, and then you're like if I fall asleep
right now, I can get six hours.
If I fall asleep right now, Ican get five hours.
If I fall asleep right now, youknow.
And then I always think aboutlike tomorrow's going to be so
hard, like I already am likethinking about how bad I'm going
to feel the next day when Ican't sleep at night.
Like a lot of the time for meI'll be laying there and I'll
(02:14):
fall asleep quick, but then I'llwake up like in a couple of
hours, and then I'll like lookaround.
I'll not know what's going on.
I'll check the time, like is itmorning?
It's not morning.
And then I'm like I okay, Ihave to go back to sleep.
And then I'm like why am Iawake right now?
And then I kind of go back tosleep and then I wake up again.
A lot of times I wake up inpain and I'm like why am I like
(02:35):
my hips hurt, or my legs areasleep, like weird, or my arms
are asleep, or something likethat.
And so I'm not comfortable, soI have to readjust, and then I
can't get comfortable.
It's just a nightmare.
Michaela (02:48):
Yeah, it's so hard, I know for me, most nights I sleep
great.
I know guys are going to hateme for saying that, but most
nights I sleep wonderful.
The problem is is I have athing that I'm worried about.
I'm behind on something, Iforgot to do something, and then
(03:08):
all of a sudden that thing iswaking me up in the middle of
the night and I'm like Iliterally can't even take care
of it right now.
Why do you?
Why do I care?
And then you know you, you knowyou do the things that you do,
that know that you know how tohelp you go back to sleep.
And then you're up againthinking about the thing and
you're like just stop thinkingabout it, I don't want to think
(03:29):
about this anymore.
Like I put it, like I wrote anote, I said something by my bed
, I wrote it out.
I'm like it's, it's right there, I don't need to think about
this right now.
I can't fix it.
Your brain just doesn't want tostop trying to think about the
thing and it can be reallyfrustrating.
Laura (03:45):
That is frustrating when you can't solve it right now.
Like often for something likethat, I'll use a container
strategy, like a mentalcontainer strategy, where I'm
like okay, let me put this inits box in my brain and I'll set
it aside and I'll remember itlater.
I wrote it down like writing itdown as a great strategy, Like,
but you just can't fall asleep.
(04:07):
I think that your brain is likeif I solve this, then I can
rest, yeah.
You know what I mean.
Like it's like it needs you tosolve it so that you can relax,
but you can't relax until yousolve it.
Michaela (04:21):
Well, so backing up a little bit here, so there's
multiple types of sleep issues,right.
So we have trouble fallingasleep, we have trouble staying
asleep, and then we have earlymorning awakening issues that
like you wake up and then likeit's five and you have to wake
up in an hour and then you justcan't like your brain just won't
(04:43):
let you go back to sleep, andsome people can have a
combination of these issues orit's really just more one thing
that is causing that problem.
So we talked about, likeworrying about stuff that we
have to do or that we forgot todo.
What are some other reasons whywe might have troubles, like
with sleep?
Laura (05:02):
Trouble falling asleep.
Sometimes it's about likecaffeine, like you're jittery or
you're like pumped up.
Maybe you just did got homefrom something exciting and
you're like amped up a littlebit.
You have adrenaline fromsomething going on at home.
Sometimes like thinking about,obviously like ruminating and
thinking about stuff can beabout things that are happening
(05:25):
like in your house right then.
Like did I forget to turn offthe stove?
Did I forget to lock the door?
Did I forget?
You know that kind of stuffLike.
So it's not always futureworries that are getting you.
Sometimes it's like justnighttime routine stuff.
Like did I do all the thingsthat I'm supposed to do?
And then you have to get backup out of bed to go check.
Sometimes your body just can'tsettle down, like people who are
(05:49):
fidgety and move a lot and justdon't.
They need more time to slowdown and relax their nervous
system to start settling intosleep.
Michaela (05:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that you mentionedcaffeine, because that's
definitely a huge issue because,like, we all of a sudden get
into the cycle where we're like,oh, I didn't sleep well, so I'm
going to use caffeine to helpme stay awake, and then the
caffeine now is the reason whywe can't fall asleep, and so
then we keep using more caffeinetrying to fix it, and then our
sleep just continues to getworse.
(06:19):
So that can be a huge problem.
I was also thinking, whenyou're talking like a fight with
our spouse, like maybe we hadan argument or a disagreement
with a family member before bedand that's, you know, waking us
up.
Sometimes working out and doinga too aggressive of a workout
like we think exercise is goingto make us feel better, but
sometimes doing that likeworkout too close to bedtime can
(06:42):
also disrupt our sleep.
Like workout too close tobedtime can also disrupt our
sleep.
Um, and then I like that youmentioned like fidgetiness, like
you know, um, adhd, uh, clientswith ADHD do have a lot of
delayed sleep onset.
Um, delayed onset sleep issues,um, like they just um, can't
(07:02):
stop until they just kind oflike crash, until they get to
this and it's like their brainis just going, their body's
going and they can't settle ininto sleep, which is not all
people with ADHD, you know, somepeople with ADHD can't, you
know, especially if they don'thave hyperactivity, they might
not have problems shutting offtheir brain, because you know we
have a lot of those, you knowissues getting things that are
(07:25):
going on in the brain to getthrough, and so we're not really
thinking about a lot of things,right, and so those people can
tend to have a lot easier timefalling asleep.
Laura (07:35):
Yeah, and then when they fall asleep, they have a hard
time staying asleep at times,like waking up throughout the
night, like I was mentioningwith me.
I wake up a thousand times andfor a billion reasons, and
sometimes I can fall asleepquickly after I wake up, but
other times I can't, and so whenI am waking up I might not even
(07:56):
have a real reason, like maybethere's nothing going on in my
head, maybe I'm just waking upbecause I heard a sound and now
I can't fall back asleep, orsomething like that.
Michaela (08:05):
Would you say that you're a light sleeper, or do
you?
Are you pretty deep?
Laura (08:16):
I'm not a light sleeper.
Like people can talk to me andI've actually been known to have
full conversations in my sleepand I'm not awake for them, and
so my kids.
It used to be a rule that, like, if they're talking to me and
they know that I'm asleep, likewhatever I say doesn't count,
because they would be like yousaid we could go do this, or you
said we could have this, or yousaid this, I'm like no, that's
not fair.
You're taking advantage of thesituation.
(08:36):
Like they would always try totalk to me when I was sleeping,
or if I'm like laying down.
So I always used to say, likeif I'm laying down, when I give
you the answer, like the answeris no, you can't, you know.
Like you can't count on thatinformation because I will
respond, but I'll stay asleep.
That's so funny.
That is like I think sometimesthere's like I think my brain is
(09:01):
always partially, is like onlypartially asleep, but I'm not
getting that deep sleep.
Like I think that's what'shappening for me.
Michaela (09:12):
That can be hard.
Do you find that that's morelike during that, like a nap in
the afternoon, or is that likeat nighttime?
Laura (09:19):
Well, definitely during a nap, Like I don't think I fall
asleep during naps, but I knowthat the time went by and I
don't feel like it was a normalamount of time, so like it goes
by fast, like sleep does, so itfeels like it feels like I was
sleeping, but I wasn't reallysleeping, cause I know that I
was fully aware of everythingthat was going on the entire
time.
Michaela (09:38):
Yeah, I don't, I don't , I don't nap.
I'd like if I, if I like, canactually sleep in the afternoon.
It is like I have to be like sotired you know, yeah, um, this
week we had our conference thatwe went to, and then we and then
I just had a full packed day.
I went, we got up at like youknow early, went to you know the
(10:01):
ski hill and took our kidsskiing and I napped in the car.
But like it was not, like I'mkind of awake, aware of what's
going on around me, but likethat's a rarity to be able to
just like find myself asleepdoing nothing else.
But I, I walk in my sleep andmy brother always tells me he
(10:21):
always tells this really funnystory of when we were, when I
was in grad school and he wasliving with me in Iowa and I
don't know, I was having a dreamthat I needed to plug my phone
in.
I vaguely remember that partand I left my bedroom, I grabbed
my phone from my bedroom andthen tried to plug it in out on
(10:41):
in the living room and he's likewhat are you doing?
And I literally walk out thereand I'm like messing with my
phone and then I like set itdown and then I go back into the
other room.
Yeah, but I was plugging in myphone.
That's so funny Waking up as akid I remember waking up in
weird places.
Like I woke up with my bed, my,my blanket, in the bathroom.
(11:08):
Yeah, okay, yeah, weird, right.
Yeah, something that wassupposed to be working in my
brain was not working.
Yeah, the deep sleep.
So, um, and then I've been toldthat I'm not very nice in my
sleep.
So if you try to like get me togo, if I've like fall asleep on
the couch, and you try to getme to go to the bedroom, go to
bed or whatever, like, yeah,don't, don't do that, I'm not
apparently very nice.
(11:28):
I don't know what I said, butit's not great.
Laura (11:32):
That's really funny.
I am difficult to move.
Like once I go to sleep,nobody's getting me to move.
Like my kids will try to wakeme up.
Like last night I fell asleepon the couch and I know that
they turned off the TV cause Iwas watching something on TV and
when I woke up there was no TV.
The TV was not on and normallyit'll just keep playing and
playing forever Like it was.
(11:53):
It won't just like stop, and soI know they turned off the TV.
My dogs were still like with meon the couch, Like I didn't put
anybody to bed, Like I justcompletely fell asleep and they
probably tell me hey, you know,get up and go upstairs.
Like you're asleep now, Likeit's time for bed and I'm just
like okay, and then I don't likeI'll say I will, I'll be like,
(12:22):
yeah, okay, and then I justcompletely ignore them and go
back to sleep.
Michaela (12:26):
Yeah, that's too funny .
Um, do you think that yoursleep has changed Cause your
kids are all older, you know alot more self-sufficient, like?
I feel like I was a very deepsleeper before.
Now that I have kids andthey're young, I like I hear
every noise and it's so annoyingthat my husband never hears
when the kids wake up in themiddle of the night.
Okay, no, not never, but like,most of the time I feel like I
(12:48):
always wake up and I hear allthe noises, but I wasn't always
like that.
Laura (12:54):
I think my sleep has changed from the perspective
that I'm not as exhausted.
So like I used to be so tiredthat I would fall asleep and
stay asleep and wake up likelate, like I couldn't even wake
up in the morning.
Like I was so exhausted all thetime that I just couldn't
function and could barely evenwake up, like to get to work on
(13:15):
time.
So I'm not like that anymore.
So now I can wake up in themorning and feed my dogs, and
like I'm not really mad about it.
Like I used to be so furiouswhen my alarm would go off Cause
I'm like, no, I'm not ready.
Like I need more sleep.
And and I'm not like thatanymore Like it's a lot easier
(13:36):
for me now to wake up in themorning without being cranky.
Michaela (13:43):
Yeah, well, that's good.
I bet that feels a lot better,it does feel better and it's
hope for people out there thataren't morning people about,
like maybe there's a chance thatyou can kind of become less of,
you know, you can have more ofthat morning spirit and stuff.
But I think you know we we were, you know, talking to a
colleague this week and we weretalking about like sleep and
(14:06):
insomnia and like she introducedthe idea of like the, the sleep
doctor and things about thatteach, telling us that like
maybe that there's just adifference, like some of us just
have different naturalcircadian rhythms for sleep and
maybe we don't all have to bethe same, even though most of us
are morning people, like yousaid, like 55% of people are
(14:31):
morning people and they can getup and they feel the best, you
know, in that in those morninghours getting things done, you
know between like 10 and two orsomething, and feeling pretty
good.
Some of us are just not morningpeople and naturally, you know
we that probably doesn't changea whole lot in our lifetime.
Laura (14:52):
Yeah, I used to like wish I was asleep.
When I was awake Like all thetime, I'm like I just would like
focus.
Sleep was like a huge focus forme all the time.
Like I would be thinking aboutsleep.
So if I would wake up in themorning and have to be awake and
doing something, all I would bethinking is like I wish I could
be sleeping right now and solike I'm not like preoccupied by
(15:12):
my sleep anymore, even thoughmy sleep is not as restful, I
don't think like I don't thinkthat I'm getting as deep of
sleep as I used to when I waslike super duper tired all the
time, because now I'm likewaking up at night where I never
did that before, but it doesn'tlike it's not as intrusive like
in my life, like just likewishing I could go to bed
(15:33):
earlier or like needing moresleep before work or something
like that.
Michaela (15:38):
Well, that's the thing that I find is really common in
, as you know, we get older Idon't want to say that, but,
like, as we, as our hormoneschange and our life changes,
sometimes that is a very commonthing, especially like 10 years
before that menopausal timeperiod.
You know, a lot of times womenare starting to see those
(15:59):
progesterone levels go down andso sometimes it can be a hormone
imbalance that could becreating some of those sleep
problems.
I hear a lot of like increasedanxiety or like problems staying
asleep at night being probablyone of the most common things.
So you know there's definitelyhormone issues that can happen.
The other thing that, like Ialways screen patients on, is,
(16:22):
you know when they're sayingthat they have problems sleeping
or they feel really tiredduring the day.
You know there are sleepdisorders that aren't talked
about very often.
So you know there is apercentage of people that can
have narcolepsy withoutcataplexy.
And when I talk about this,about this, to clients, they're
like what I'm not just likefalling asleep at my desk or in
(16:42):
my food or whatever you know,but the fact is is that you
don't have to have that likefalling asleep thing.
It's that like you're justextremely tired during the day
and could sleep during thedaytime.
You know, if you're sittingback watching a show or like
relaxing for a few minutes, thenyou could be out and you're
oftentimes seeing that they'regoing into that REM sleep very
(17:04):
quickly, so they fall asleep anddream really quickly.
As you know, one of the thingsalso looking at like restless
leg and you know differentdisorders where we're we're
often like feeling like our legsare really restless and kicking
a lot could be anothercontributing factor to.
You know people who think thatthey're sleeping through the
night but also or it could wakethem up, but there's, there may
(17:26):
be sleeping through the night,but they're not getting that
quality sleep because of ofthese like restless leg
movements.
Laura (17:33):
So like what are some of the other we kind of mentioned?
Like most people are morningpeople, right?
Like what are some of the othergroups of sleepers?
Like how does that look forother people?
Michaela (17:47):
Um, well, I think some people are night people, right,
they're.
They're going to, you know,feel the most energy in the
evening time.
Um, you know, there's just adifferent like circadian rhythms
for for different people.
Some people might get a burstof energy, you know, they might
(18:07):
have a little bit in theafternoon and then they're
feeling really like energetictowards the evening time.
So, you know, different peoplewill have different, like you
know, circadian rhythms fortheir body, just like, even with
nutrition, right, like somepeople don't feel hungry in the
morning.
Well, that has to do with likethe chrononutrition or like
(18:29):
clock in our body telling uswhen we're hungry, when we're
not hungry, and some of that wehave to start trying to build on
, like the more we don't dosomething right, like with
eating, if we don't eatbreakfast and we're never going
to be a breakfast person butstart eating breakfast, we could
, we could become a breakfastperson.
And I think that the same isprobably true to some degree
(18:52):
with sleep.
Obviously, like some sleeptraining works in some people.
We're not going toautomatically be morning people,
you know, but we can try to getinto a better rhythm and we can
.
We do that by doing good sleephygiene practices.
You know, maybe we really are aperson that has good, normal
circadian, could have normalcircadian rhythm, but we
(19:13):
wouldn't know unless we try.
We get stuck into thesepatterns of, you know, sleeping
in in the morning when we canand then, you know, going to bed
late when we can, and we kindof have a schedule that's all
over the place, and so wewouldn't know if it's really
just a circadian rhythm, likethat's just our jam, versus it
being poor sleep habits.
(19:35):
And so I think the first thingthat we would want to do is make
sure that we're following thesegood sleep habits so that we
can, you know, see if we can bethe most successful possible,
right, and so you know, I knowwe talked about daytime
activities, like avoiding a lotof caffeine late in the day.
Some people it's 2pm, somepeople it's noon, some people
(19:55):
it's earlier.
The older we get, the less wecan metabolize caffeine, and so
more caffeine is going to hangaround longer in our system.
So people will be like I'vebeen drinking eight cups of
coffee my whole life.
What do you mean?
I have to stop drinking coffee,right, and it's like well, your
body could metabolize it beforeand now it's having a hard time
metabolizing it.
(20:15):
So we can't be drinking coffeeall day.
And I think even for peoplethat are like, oh, I fall asleep
so easily with coffee, likecoffee makes me fall asleep and
it's like, okay, that's fine, itmight make you fall asleep, but
what else is the coffee and thecaffeine doing to your nervous
system?
It's probably increasingcortisol, like it's doing other
(20:40):
things, and it's probably goingto lead to you having problems
with sleeping through the nightas well.
So sometimes that's a problem.
Like we talked about working outnapping.
Some people are nappers andthey can nap and they can have a
full night's sleep, and that'sgreat.
But when we start seeing thatnap intruding on our nighttime
sleep, then it's maybe time toreevaluate the nap, and that may
(21:00):
not happen right away, but overtime it could be happening.
And so then you can say, well,I've been napping for you know,
forever and now, well, maybe nowit is impacting your sleep at
night because we need less sleepas we age.
Maybe Right, and so the rulesof napping are going to be like
no more than 90 minutes and nomore than like five hours.
(21:25):
You need to be up at least forfive hours after the nap before.
You're like wanting to go tobed, and so that's going to help
protect that nighttime sleep.
I mean, you think about babies,right?
We always made sure that theyhad they're not napping too
close to bedtime, or otherwiseour bedtime routine is going to
be thrown off, and so we're justlike we're.
They're just little humans,similar to us, so we need to
(21:46):
follow the rules too.
And then protecting yourbedtime routine is huge.
So I know that, like, this isthe my least popular
conversation that I have withpeople.
People really don't want tolisten.
People think, like the TV makesme fall asleep.
The TV helps me fall asleep,which I don't discount.
I don't.
I think that that's true.
(22:06):
It's a distraction of yourbrain, right, and it's a very
successful distraction.
And so you know, turning onFriends for the 1800th time,
you've seen all the episodes.
You know that it's going to putyou to sleep.
But you're not also taking intoconsideration your brain.
Brains want to finish things,brains want to know what's going
on.
And so, even if you're asleep,are you really in that deep
(22:29):
sleep because your mind ishearing what's going on in the
background?
You know, if you're watchingsomething that you've never seen
before, it's exciting.
You can get that adrenalinerush and you can literally, if
you pay attention to your bodyenough, you can feel like your
heart is a little bit fasterthan what it would normally be
before bedtime and you can feelthe difference when you go a
long time without watching showsat nighttime, and then you do.
(22:52):
You can feel the difference inyour body and how it reacts to
sleep at bedtime when you'retrying to bring down for the day
.
It's really, it's really crazy.
So you know, turning the TV offand I forgot to mention that,
like the light from the TV isalso catastrophic for for sleep.
You know that light is going tobe decreasing that natural
(23:14):
production of melatonin, becauseyou know that's what's.
That's how our brains weredesigned to see.
Oh, it's nighttime, right, it'stime to start shutting down,
it's time to go to sleep, and sohaving all the lights in the
house on and on, bright, andwatching TV and being on your
phone scrolling, those are allgoing to make really big impacts
on your sleep.
And so if you want to have thebest sleep possible, you do
(23:37):
really want to make sure that anhour before bed, you're kind of
shutting all those things down.
You're turning the lights down.
You're dimming them so that youcan, kind of like, let your
brain start recognizing it'stime for sleep.
Laura (23:49):
Yeah, those are all really good and they make
perfect sense.
You know what I mean.
Like, when you're saying thisstuff, it's like oh yeah, no,
that makes sense.
Like I feel really called outabout the caffeine.
I'm just saying, um, because Iknow we just spent two days
together and you watched medrink like 700 diet Cokes a day.
Um, and I will drink them rightbefore bed, like, and I think
(24:13):
it's fine because I can fallasleep.
But, like, as you're talking,I'm thinking, oh, maybe that's
why I can't stay asleep, maybethat's why I'm waking up all the
time, like for no reason andbecause I don't feel necessarily
anxious.
I just feel like I'm notresting.
You know what I mean and I thinkyou know sometimes there's
other things that can contributeto not being able to sleep,
(24:34):
like depression, anxiety andother like mood disorders and
difficulties with your mentalhealth, like a high level of
stress, like all of those thingscan make it really hard for you
to fall asleep or stay asleep,and it's really important to
take care of your mental health,and part of that is like taking
care of your nutrition, right?
(24:55):
Like I feel like often we try toisolate these things and we say
like, oh well, it's just thisone thing, Like it's this one
area of my life, but it's notit's.
You're a whole person and youhave a lot of variables that are
impacting how things are goingfor you, and so nutrition is a
really important component ofsleep too.
(25:15):
Like there's foods that you caneat that cause, or that there's
foods that you can eat thatactually, like create more
calming effects than other foods, and there's foods that you can
eat that create like energizingeffects as well.
Right, like if you're eating alot of sugary foods or
carbohydrates, like close tobedtime, you know you might get
(25:36):
that like coma, like the pastakind of coma or whatever, but
that's not sustained sleepiness.
That's just like I'm digestingreally hard food, really food
that's hard to digest and thattakes a lot of energy, but it's
going to turn into energy onceit's digested.
Like so now I'm going to end upwith more energy at the end.
Michaela (25:57):
Yes, oh yeah, I love that you brought that up.
I think that that's so on pointand it made me think about
alcohol.
So often do people say like, ohyeah, I'm going to, I drink my
glass of wine and then I don'thave any problems falling asleep
.
But then they're waking up atthree o'clock in the morning
when that alcohol is being, youknow, digested and it's not
(26:22):
making you have the sleepyeffects and you're having even
actually like, maybe highersugar or lower sugar, depending
on the timing of things and howyou're, you know what medicines
you're taking and whatnot.
But like you know, we, you knowwe wake up, you know, so
thirsty in the middle of thenight after having a drink to
(26:43):
put us to sleep, and then nowwe're awake and we don't.
Now we're not tired to go backto sleep again.
So alcohol can be a really bigcomponent of like waking up in
the middle of the night.
Laura (26:55):
Yeah, and you know with that, with alcohol too, like you
wake up just not feeling asclear headed.
So like the morning is harder,when, if you're somebody who's
not a morning person already andthen you're waking up after a
night of having a couple ofdrinks before going to bed, then
, like you're going to wake up,your brain's going to be foggy,
you're not going to be clear,you're not going to be feeling
(27:16):
refreshed because you had, youknow, like that crash and then
the like, you know, the sugarrush and then all you know what
I mean.
Like all of these differentdisruptors that have happened
throughout the night, you're notgoing to feel refreshed in the
morning.
You're not going to feel likespry.
First thing.
When your alarm goes off, readyto go, you're going to hit it,
you're going to be hittingsnooze, you know, at least 27
(27:38):
times before you wake up in themorning.
Michaela (27:41):
Yeah, absolutely Well, and the you know we talked a
lot about like nighttime thingsthat you can do and so.
But, like morning time,starting your day at the same
time of day consistently is alsoanother factor that can
contribute to having bettersleep at night, because your
(28:01):
body is following a rhythm rightand knows what to expect, and
so if we're waking up at thesame time of day, we're more
likely to be tired at the sametime of day.
But if we're, like you know,you know, sleeping in like a
teenager I mean, I liked mysleep a lot when I was a
teenager I'm telling you not nojudgment here, but like, oh yeah
, you know we're, we're sleepingin where you know we're getting
(28:24):
our day started later, we'rehaving our caffeine later, we're
doing all these things later inthe day, and so then we're,
we're having a harder timegetting to bed that night and
then we just, you know, kind ofnever get back on track.
Um, there was also anotherstudy that said it's better to
go to bed at the same time ofnight every night versus like
(28:44):
variable times.
Like you think you're doingyourself a good favor.
You're like I went to bed atnine o'clock last night.
I got a solid, not 10 hours ofsleep, I'm great.
Like you think that you'rereally doing your body, you know
the service, you're catching upon things, but they they show
that it's actually better foryou to go to bed, even if it's
just a little bit later, but tobe more consistent with that
(29:05):
sleep, again supporting thatbody's natural clock of finding
a rhythm of sleep and then justbeing consistent with that.
I think someone was saying thatlike seven hours is probably
like the sweet spot for sleep,like you can get too much sleep
and so, like some people feellike a little bit more tired if
they get, you know, eight and ahalf hours of sleep, where they
(29:27):
feel the best when they geteight hours of sleep.
And so finding that like magic,you know time for your own body
and then setting your clockaround, that can be helpful.
Laura (29:37):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, like having just the
rhythm so that your body can getused to it.
Similarly, to sleep like you'retraining your brain.
You're training your brain toget used to something that
happens at the same time everyday, and it's like wires
together, fires together, we sayall the time we heard that a
thousand times over the pastcouple of days but we're
(30:00):
training our brain to know thatlike, oh, it's around this time
I'm going to start getting tired, I'm going to start producing
that melatonin, I'm going tostart looking for, you know,
winding down opportunities, andso we're ready to give our body
a break at that time.
And that's really important toyour body's ability to calm down
.
It needs to have a routine, itneeds to know what to expect,
(30:21):
because otherwise, if it'sexpecting things to just be
chaotic and anything goesanytime, it's not going to know
what to do.
It's not going to be able toget into that mode as easily.
Some things that I recommend topeople who have a hard time
relaxing is to take breaksthroughout the day and calm
(30:43):
yourself down, even if you don'tthink you're not calm like you
might think you're fine, but youneed to take a break just a
random time throughout the day,like three or four times, and
just intentionally calm yourselfdown, because what you're
teaching yourself how to do iscalm down in any moment and then
, when you need it, you'll beable to use it, because you
(31:05):
don't want that to be a gametime decision.
You don't want your body tohave to practice when it's time
to fall asleep.
You want to set yourself up forsuccess by having a routine
where your body can predictwhat's going to happen next.
And then, when you calmyourself down throughout the day
, you're giving yourself thatblueprint like oh, now I know
how to do this, so I can do itwhen I need it.
Michaela (31:28):
Yeah, it's like muscle memory it when I need it.
Yeah, it's like muscle memory.
Exactly, that makes a lot ofsense.
I think that that's a reallygood point.
I was also thinking about, likeyou know, we kind of alluded to
like having a lot of cognitivedistortions or like mental
mistakes surrounding thethoughts about bad sleep, and I
(31:53):
know that this is one of thecornerstone things in cognitive
behavioral therapy for insomnia.
But it's like helping likecognitive restructuring around
those thoughts and those beliefsaround sleep.
So like I might thinktomorrow's going to be terrible,
but is it really ever as bad asI think it's going to be?
(32:14):
No, Right.
And so we start to.
You know, I always tell peopleit's like Pavlov's dogs, right?
So we have all this tossing andturning that happens in our bed
and it's kind of that classicconditioning, you know thing
that's going on.
It's like we are feeding thedogs and we ring the bell.
(32:34):
Now the bell signifies food forthe dog.
Now, even thinking about bedmeans I'm going to not sleep
good.
I'm going to toss and turn.
What happens tomorrow and I'mnot saying that like people who
have had severe insomnia daysand days on end don't feel like
the worst.
(32:55):
It is terrible, and I'm notdiscounting that part of it.
I'm talking more about like theeveryday person that has these,
like you know these, has hadbad sleep and has, you know,
kind of got stuck in this, inthis pattern.
So like what would you, whatwould you suggest someone do?
Or like ways that they can helpwork them, walk themselves
(33:17):
through how to improve some ofthose negative thoughts?
Laura (33:20):
I mean, I think to challenge those thoughts is
important, creating like avisualization maybe of like what
you want to feel like the nextday, or creating a relaxing
visualization.
Even listening to some sleepmusic can help those thoughts
just fade away a little bit.
(33:41):
I listen to sleep musicsometimes on my phone before bed
and it helps me calm my brain.
It tells my brain, oh, it'stime to be calm because the calm
music is coming on.
And so when I hear my calmmusic my brain is like, oh, fire
, that is wired with this.
I'm going to fire at the sametime to start going to sleep.
(34:01):
And it also focusing on thecalm music that doesn't have any
words or anything like that,just focusing on the melody
helps my brain not focus on thethoughts.
So there's like one just just,it's a distraction, it's a way
to focus on something else,focus my attention on something
helpful instead of somethingthat's not as helpful, and those
(34:24):
thoughts aren't helping meright now.
So the other thing is tochallenge the negative thoughts,
like just kind of let them knowthat there's other
possibilities, right, liketomorrow doesn't have to be
terrible, like okay, maybe lastnight was really hard, but
tonight doesn't have to be Justbecause it happened before
doesn't mean it's going tohappen again.
So reminding myself thatanything can happen now and that
(34:46):
every night is a newopportunity to get better sleep
and have a better time.
And so I think that using someof those strategies could help
retrain your brain to be lesslike dread, less right, like
(35:08):
it's that feeling of dread.
What you were describing.
It's like this, I'm dreadinglaying down, because I know it's
just feeling of dread.
What you were describing it'slike this, I'm dreading laying
down, because I know it's justgoing to be hard.
But changing changing yourenvironment is going to show
yourself that there's somethingdifferent about this.
It doesn't have to be the same.
So maybe get a fresh set ofsheets, maybe, um, make a change
to the layout of your room orhang some nice calming pictures,
(35:31):
like things that you like, like, um, change the color scheme,
make a change in yourenvironment that can also like,
give yourself an opportunity toreset.
So like, cause what wirestogether, fires together.
You're taking out all thethings that remind you, like
you're basically getting a newbell instead of the old bell.
You're getting a new bell andyou're retraining your brain to
do something different.
Michaela (35:52):
Yeah, I love that.
I think that's a great plan.
So we've talked about, like,different ways to set the
intention for sleep.
We've talked about things thatwe can get rid of, things that
we can add in.
Is there anything else that youcan think of that might help
(36:14):
with, like the, you know, theoverall sleep health of somebody
?
Laura (36:21):
The thing that you mentioned before about exercise,
like not exercising too closeto bedtime, but exercising at
some point throughout your day,like being active, is one thing
that I always recommend too.
Like going for a 20 minute walkevery day is so helpful for your
brain and your body and itgives yourself, like, it gives
(36:42):
your brain, time to focus ondifferent things, like don't
bring your phone, don't havelike, don't be checking it, just
if you are listening to musicthat's fine, but you know to try
to go for a 20-minute walkwhere you're not, you know,
engaging with your device, andso you're giving yourself time
to recognize, like, what calmlooks like.
(37:02):
A lot of the time, I think it'sthat we just don't know what
calm looks like.
We don't know how that feels inour bodies, we don't know.
And those activities that youcan do, like if you're
exercising a little bit, like itreleases a lot of important
neurochemicals that allow yourbody to optimally perform, and
some of those is like serotoninand some of that is, um, you
(37:26):
know, the ability to uh, to restafterward, right, like so when
you've got this workout going,or when you're walking, you know
you're exerting energy, butyour body has to like constantly
regulate in that moment.
So it's practicing you're.
You're building muscles, butyou're also building like, your
internal muscle, to come backdown from, from getting worked
(37:47):
up Like.
I think it's just a reallyimportant exercise for your mind
as well.
Michaela (37:53):
Yeah, when you were saying that, I was thinking like
, oh my gosh, when I run Iprocess through all the things
that I'd probably be likethinking about at nighttime.
So like I'm giving myself anlike just even giving yourself
an opportunity during the day tolike think about things or like
have space for that might takeit away at nighttime.
(38:14):
The other thing I was thinkingabout is like um fight or flight
.
So you know, a lot of thethings come back to the
sympathetic nervous systemarousal.
What happens?
I don't know if anybody haslike an aura ring or like
something that tracks theirsleep at nighttime, whatever.
When you don't get good sleepat nighttime, what happens?
(38:37):
Your sympathetic nervous systemarousal is generally higher.
And so by just getting lesssleep you're setting yourself up
to almost have your amygdalasmoke detector be more sensitive
.
I think I wonder you know yeah.
Laura (38:53):
I think that's true.
I think because it lessens yourwindow of tolerance.
Right Like it, it closes thatwindow a little bit because your
body's having to work on lessresources, so you don't have the
resources you need in order tomaintain a level of calm and
settled and safe throughout theday.
Michaela (39:13):
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
And you know, even calls intoyou know who hasn't had like a
bad night's sleep or like justdidn't have opportunity to,
things were so busy, whatever.
And then the next day they'repretty grumpy, like they're
short with all.
They just don't, we just don'tfeel like ourselves.
(39:34):
And so I think that, likeyou're what you're talking about
about, like taking breaksduring the day and making sure
that we're like havingopportunity to calm our nervous
systems, definitely going to behelpful at decreasing and
improving our window oftolerance and lowering that
threshold where we feel like wecan be operating at like a
better, closer to our baseline.
Laura (39:56):
Absolutely yeah.
So we have our sleepenvironment that we can change.
We have our sleep schedule,like our routine, nighttime
routine, that we can change.
We can change the sights andsounds that we have before bed.
We can change our mentalmindset about bedtime and what
that looks like.
We can use strategies for ournutrition and for our health
(40:19):
that are outside of sleep, stufflike what we don't already
think about, like alcoholconsumption, caffeine
consumption.
There's so many things that wecan do to improve our sleep, so
I think we start with those andthen kind of see where it goes
from there.
Michaela (40:38):
I agree A couple of things that I was thinking that
we could add to that list is theoptimal sleep temperature is
probably I think it's 67 degrees, um, so having it cooler and
the house actually promotesbetter sleep at nighttime.
Um, and then you know, what areyou sleeping on?
(40:59):
Who hasn't slept on a crappymattress or a couch?
Cause there, cause you werestaying over somewhere and, of
course, like you were, yeah, orjust cause you fell asleep on
the couch, right?
You know that environment isprobably going to be more
conducive for waking up with hippain or like headaches or neck
(41:20):
aches and things like that, andthat's gonna definitely not make
us feel better.
So, being mindful of like, is ittime to upgrade your mattress?
And like, making sure that wehave a budget that's saving
towards ensuring that we canhave the best place to sleep,
you know, I know beds,mattresses are super expensive,
but they're definitely worth itif you can, you know.
(41:44):
And then you know just makingsure your temperature is down
lower, which can be really hardin my house.
I know that the kids that, likeone of the kids bedrooms is
more likely to be cooler orwarmer or whatever, and so it's
hard to adjust the temperatureso everybody has the best you
know sleep possible.
So I know that it's not alwayseasy to do, but you can do the
best that you can to make surethat it's the best environment.
Laura (42:06):
Yeah, and it's so worth it to take some of these steps,
even if you only take a coupleof them, like take some of these
steps, even if you only take acouple of them, like take some
of these small steps to improvethe quality of your life overall
.
Michaela (42:15):
Yeah, I was going to say too there are some
supplements that can helppromote better sleep, and so,
you know, that's something thatwe would talk about, like in a
consultation to help youunderstand a little bit more
about what options might be thebest for you particularly.
(42:35):
But like, magnesium is alwaysone of the ones that I throw out
there.
I've found success, like withtreating restless leg.
You know, improving anythinglike that.
Cramps, you know, can improvewith magnesium.
You don't have to, you know,always ingest it either.
You can do like an Epsom saltbath type thing that magnesium
salts can soak into the skin sothat it doesn't have as much
havoc on, like, your GI tractand things like that.
So there's definitely likesupplements, but like, the one
(42:58):
thing that I want you to knowabout sleep is that it is not a
quick fix when it has taken usyears to create bad habits
around sleep, and I know thatit's like one of the most
frustrating things that we wantto just like fix right, like
right now, and I know that it'slike one of the most frustrating
things that we want to justlike fix right, like right now.
And there's medicines that wecan use and things that we can
use to help you get better sleepimmediately.
(43:19):
But ultimately, if you, if theresearch shows the best long
lasting results for sleep, isgoing to be using the cognitive
behavioral therapy for insomnia,for, like good sleep hygiene,
doing these things, it has thelongest lasting effects.
Yeah.
Laura (43:35):
So it's not like it's not a fast, easy fix, but it's
worth the time and energy andeffort to take some steps that
you can take right away, smallsteps, even, and um, and then go
from there.
Yeah Well, thank you so much.
This was very enlightening andI think I'm going to take some
(43:56):
steps of mine for to improve mysleep hygiene.
I've learned a little bit.
I'm going to maybe switch todecaf We'll see what happens, Um
, but I really appreciate youand this conversation and thank
you for listening to why am ILike this?
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
(44:17):
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, Laura Wood and
Michaela Beaver.
Our theme song is Making EndsMeet by Thick as Thieves, and a
special thanks to BenavieriCounseling and Active Healing
Psychiatric Services forsponsoring our show.
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