May 21, 2025 • 39 mins
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We dive into the twisted true story behind Netflix’s Apple Cider Vinegar—the dramatization of wellness influencer Belle Gibson, who faked cancer and built an empire on lies.
Tanya and Erin break down the psychology behind her behavior, including possible signs of Munchausen syndrome, narcissistic traits, and how emotional trauma may have shaped her manipulation.
We also explore:
- Why people fall for “health influencers” with no credentials
- The mental health toll on Belle’s partner and child
- Real-life consequences for followers who believed her story
- The ethics of publishing unchecked wellness content
- And... coffee enemas vs. 14 juices a day—which would you pick? 🥴
💥 This is a must-listen if you're into psychology, media scandals, or just want to understand how someone could fake cancer and get away with it—for a while.
🧠 Don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a 5-star review.
🧡 Stay wicked and keep your mind well.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin (00:31):
Hey guys, this is Tanya.
Hi, this is Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
tanya (00:35):
Welcome to another episode.
we are actually, in our.
Third season.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And so this is, this is prettyexciting.
we should count up how manyepisodes?
I know we got 75 episodes nottoo long ago.
Erin (00:47):
it's, I think we're at like 75 or, well more than 75.
So probably at least 78.
tanya (00:53):
Yeah, we're getting up there.
So thank you for continuing tojoin us.
If you're new here.
we are.
A podcast that likes to discusssome.
topics involving mental healthrevolving around movies shows
sitcoms, documentaries, thingslike that.
That's kind of our niche.
but today we are discussing ifyou have been active on Netflix,
(01:14):
you would be very aware of this.
It's called Apple Cider Vinegar.
and it is a dramatization of,based on a real story, which
some, some of the facts havebeen changed.
It's not completely accurate,which they very much put in
there.
and it involves a gamer namedBell Gibson, whom we do not
(01:35):
alike very much.
So she is a real character.
She is someone who was able tofool many people, made a lot of
profit off of, products andcontent and apps, books, or a
book that then got revoked,which talked about leading a
healthy lifestyle.
(01:56):
And being able to cure thecancer that she says she had.
Mm-hmm.
Which, spoiler alert she did notHave cancer at all.
which as you can see, this isreally dangerous.
Mm-hmm.
not only mentally corrupt andhorrendous, but, just
absolutely.
I think one of the worst thingsyou can do.
(02:16):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
so Belle, we learn is a complexcharacter.
She is really someone whopresents things with a lot of
confidence.
She has the ability to lie onthe fly.
Like she really can pull outthose lies and construct these
very confident narratives thatpeople just.
You know, I think most peoplewould believe.
(02:37):
Mm-hmm.
Because she just comes off so,straightforward, so
knowledgeable.
And she is, she's very smart.
she's not a, she's not a stupidperson and she doesn't know a
lot about, the natural food,holistic way of living.
I'm trying to remember how she,how she starts out saying she
has, cancer.
(02:58):
I think it was from, She waskind of hurt by something and
then she kind of gets so hurtthat she feels like she needs
attention and, starts to writeall these things online about
how she has cancer.
Yeah.
Do you remember what that firstevent was?
Erin (03:11):
I think it was something being a, you know, she was in a
bad relationship with her sons.
Father they were poor, you know,like, you know, young and poor.
And it seems like she wasn'tgetting any attention from
anybody.
So, and I don't know if youknow, and her mom had m ms, so
she was familiar with braindiseases.
This is what I got.
(03:32):
And then I don't think shereally had an MRI, I think she
probably, maybe she did or hadsomething.
And then of course there was nofindings'cause she didn't have
anything.
But then I think she, that'swhen she ran with it.
Like, oh, I got a lot ofattention getting the testing
and what would it look like?
you know, since I'm a stay athome mom, or I'm not really
(03:54):
having any support from anybody.
And I think that was when it,she started to run with it, you
know, and be like, okay, let mecreate this diagnosis and this
persona.
tanya (04:05):
Yeah, I feel like there was some need for attention, and
that she was really kind oflooking for something to be able
to continue to say, okay, thisis going to feed my need for
attention, I feel like sheprobably had some form of, and
this is just a guess.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I don't reallyknow this Right.
Because we don't work with her.
We don't treat her.
(04:26):
You know, it's just, but itseems like maybe fictitious
disorder.
Yeah.
Or Munchausen.
Right.
Like, not by proxy, not imposedon another.
But, like maybe for herself thatmaybe she realized, oh, if I do
this, people will give meattention.
I think she started to see, shewas reading another profile and
seeing how much support And, youknow, kind of, Online, presence.
This other person was getting orother people.
(04:47):
And so she, I think, said, well,I'm so upset.
I'm gonna go to the hospital andsay, you know, I have, headaches
or I have all these symptoms andget attention from that.
And then she just decided topost online that even though
these were not the results shewas told everything was fine by
the hospital to say that she hadbrain cancer.
Right.
which is.
(05:09):
You know, the kind that she hadsaid, she, she had, it was,
that's a pretty, a prettydevastating diagnosis.
Mm-hmm.
and it's, you know, I think shehad said she was in like a, a
late stage too, which, at thatpoint there's, there's a pretty
low chance of survival.
Nevermind even like living kindof well day to day.
(05:29):
Right.
And she started to promote.
A lifestyle of this holisticliving that's, you know, saying,
okay, I followed these recipes.
Mm-hmm.
This type of, of eating, youknow, made, all these, these,
she was, she was good atinventing recipes.
Really good recipes.
She could like just do'em on.
Erin (05:47):
just use her stuff for good instead of evil and just be
like, Hey, I could be aninfluencer and look at these
really great, I love to cook andI can make really good recipes.
tanya (05:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She looked like she was makingsome great stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I was like, oh, that looksgood.
And she, she like didn't evenhave to really do the re, like
she didn't have to put muchthought into it.
She was just like, yeah, you dothis and that.
She had like a natural talentfor it, I think.
and instead she created thiswhole narrative about this type
of living was the thing that wasreversing her.
(06:20):
Her cancer.
I think she had said, you know,this is stuff that I, I don't
know if she said she went intoremission or if she was like,
just, I dunno, doing a lotbetter.
I'm not really sure what thereal, because this is based on a
True story.
but there again, there's somefacts that are not quite real.
there's some liberties taken,but, she ends up getting a huge
following people.
(06:42):
Really believe this story.
And this is dangerous obviously,because she did not have cancer.
And some people may feel, kindof fed up with the options they
may have.
From, this type of cancertreatment or, you know, having
to.
seek out, pay for, right.
Go through the difficulties ofthis and may think, wow, maybe I
have a shot at being able tocure my cancer or have this be
(07:04):
in remission, when this does nothave a high probability of being
in remission.
And, she affects some people,But in the meantime, she gets
all this attention.
She also gets a book deal, whichwas actually on Apple, like an
app for it.
And it was, I mean, she just hadsuch confidence and wherewithal
that people didn't really, youknow, I don't think they thought
(07:25):
anybody would lie about havingcancer.
Well, she's really good atselling
Erin (07:28):
So, and I think that's too, like, she made people, you
know, again, even though waslike, whatever.
Stuff was going on with her.
She could have done really wellbeing an honest person.
'cause it seemed like she wasreally good at marketing
herself.
She was really good at creatingand you know, getting in these
difficult meetings probably withApple.
And so if she would've just beenlike, Hey, I am a 20 something
(07:51):
year old and I'm never gone toculinary school, but look at
what I can do.
People would've been impressedwithout her making all these
other lies.
tanya (07:59):
Yeah.
And I, I know there wassomething about, I don't know
how true this is'cause I don'tknow anything about like the
publishing world or anything,but I know that the person that
she goes to when she goes topublish, she kind of tricks into
getting a meeting.
Yeah.
You know, she's got all theseresourceful ways of being like,
oh, let me in.
And it somehow works.
But the woman, I can't think ofher name, the one who published
her book had said, you know,it's the story behind it.
(08:22):
Right.
you know, it's not necessarilyjust that you have these things,
it's the story behind it.
And I think Bell kind of sensedtoo late, like, oh, I've put out
this narrative now.
This is what's going to make itsell, Right.
But if she had, presented itmaybe from the beginning and
gone a different route.
Yeah.
That could have been really, youknow, like a, single parent,
who, doesn't have much time butis able to make this healthy
(08:44):
lifestyle work.
Erin (08:45):
Yeah, people would've been interested in that.
'cause you see that now, likeyou see like, I don't know, I
always feel like my things areflooded by like.
look at what I've done by myselfand I don't have, it's probably
all the join.
Yeah.
Sign up for my course.
Or you, like, you're alwayslike,
tanya (09:01):
right.
Erin (09:03):
Yeah.
And you're like, I don't, why amI getting this?
how did I get on that algorithm?
I always wonder that, what did Iaccidentally click on that?
Now all of a sudden, I am likeevery single course in the
world, or every single.
Thing thinks I wanna join it orbe part of it.
tanya (09:17):
Yeah.
Seriously.
It's like one, one and, and youcould have just really
accidentally clicked on it orjust like even just passed by it
and lingered for a minutebecause you looked up off your
phone and they're like, oh,nope, she's looking at it.
'cause they couldn't even readthat off the algorithm.
Yeah.
but.
this person is very dishonest.
she is dangerous.
She believes her lies to thepoint where she probably still
(09:39):
to this day believes her lies.
I don't know if that's true, butit seemed like it from some of
the last interviews she gave.
But to kind of backtrack alittle bit, we do learn about
her, her childhood.
We see that her mom has some,some stuff going on.
Right.
She, she had ms, it was, I thinkmom had said it's actually was
(10:00):
not as much as Bell hadexaggerated and said it was like
she had to take care of thewhole household.
And her younger autisticbrother, which was not true or
younger, brother, was notautistic, and she did not have
to take care of the household.
the mom was like, I had mildflareups.
But also the mom had somecompetitiveness when she has a
boyfriend, she's really happy toflaunt that with balls.
(10:23):
Like they have thiscompetitiveness.
mom definitely has somepersonality.
Disorder ish stuff that she is,you can tell, has really
influenced and affected Bellbecause Bell obviously has that
too.
so there's definitely anunhealthy dynamic there.
A lot of emotional,
Erin (10:38):
immature parenting happening, and, you know, it's
Probably that may haveinfluenced whatever personality
disorder Bell may have from herchildhood.
tanya (10:49):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and I think she probablyjust wanted to go and reinvent
herself and be somethingcompletely different.
This is what a success lookslike.
And in that way you can kind of,understand her, but not how she
did it, of course.
but you know, and then there'salso, she meets Clive who is the
person she meets after, thefather of her child leaves.
(11:12):
And even in how she meets him ismanipulative.
She wants something from him.
She is, because his positionwill allow her to be able to,
where was he working?
his position would allow her,he's an IT
Erin (11:24):
person somewhere where something that she was trying to
be.
A little more seen, I forgetwhat it was, but she did man
manipulate and she startedflirting and then needed a ride
somewhere.
So then all of a sudden theyjust started to Yeah, date and
is like, she never, like, shejust kind of latched onto his
life.
'cause she was unemployed at thetime and he had a job and he
(11:45):
could probably help her.
tanya (11:46):
Right.
That's what it was.
And she saw him at some kind ofevent and was like, Ooh, he's a
good IT person.
And she goes and flirts withhim.
And I mean, everything is prettytransactional with her.
She wants something from, ifshe's trying to know people and
he's a very, you could tell,kind of nervous, shy, nice guy.
And she knows that she can readthat.
She's very good at readingpeople.
(12:06):
She's very manipulative.
And she, ultimately just takesadvantage of that.
And you know, kind of keeps himaround because he, he can offer
her that stability, but shedoesn't really seem to, consider
what it is he needs.
It's like a one way, one waystreet in the relationship.
and at first he's reallyconcerned with all her health
issues.
(12:27):
he starts to suspect along theway.
when he drops her off for herappointments, he goes into,
because I think she leftsomething in the car.
And he goes in and they're like,we've never heard of that
patient.
And like, this isn't even theright place to get like your
chemotherapy kind of thing.
And he was just like, you know,kind of starting to, to realize
(12:48):
there's, yeah, there's somethinggoing on here.
he's starting to see that inpieces and eventually after a
while he really sees how muchshe lies the patterns that she
has.
And even when he confronts her,he sees how much she will just
kind of pull something out andmake it work, and he's like, oh,
wow.
She's messed up.
She's really kind of messed up,at least in the portrayal of the
(13:08):
documentary or thedramatization.
Erin (13:11):
But he stays with her too, because I think his loyalty to,
yeah.
Her son was Oliver or somethingthat, that he ends up becoming
very attached to, and he ends upbeing basically almost the main
parent because she's so.
Focused on herself and her phoneand her app, and you know, like
(13:32):
whatever else is happening tomake herself look better.
She forgets to interact withreal people.
tanya (13:40):
Yeah.
She's just all about herselfand, and he genuinely loves her
son and feels like it's.
his own son, and she makes acomment in one of the scenes
where it's like, why would yoube able to have any rights?
You're not his father, you'renot on his birth certificate.
and he's so hurt by that becausehe is just like, I've been here
(14:01):
and you would just take thataway from me.
It's just such a rotten thing.
And he basically, was juststaying with her because he
loves the little boy, like hisown.
and yeah, he is parenting himand, and being the only stable
parent because she, she'sallowing, you know, there's one
scene when she has a birthdayparty for Oliver, that she has
parents around.
(14:21):
You know, she made it like thishuge to-do.
It was more kind of like.
It was more a party that waslike, you know, you could take
pictures of and put in amagazine Kind of thing.
And, you know, with her perfecthouse and like she's all about
image.
And when she starts to feel likeshe's not getting enough
attention, all of a sudden shehas a seizure.
(14:43):
And.
She drops like this big plate offood on the floor and nobody
knows what to do.
And you see Clive, her boyfriendkind of like look like upset,
but like at her.
Mm-hmm.
And very annoyed because heknows you just did this at your
son's party in front of him,scared the crap out of him and
just so you could get attention.
(15:05):
Yeah.
And he just kind of takes himaway and is just like so mad at
her about that.
That's just so awful that shewould do that in front of him.
Like not even to think about,now let me just do this fake
seizure narcissistic.
Erin (15:16):
I looked online'cause I was curious and that really did
happen.
All the other things like theydid were kind of fake or, you
know, just added.
But she did definitely fake aseizure at her son's birthday
party, which is like so, soawful to do.
Just like so selfish and soself-absorbed.
(15:36):
It's like, oh, they're payingattention to him.
He's playing with his presents,or whatever's happening, God
forbid, on his birthday.
Yeah.
Now everyone has to stop and youknow, go to you.
tanya (15:52):
Yeah.
She just, it was like thispathological need for attention.
And you can see that in her momwhen her mom ultimately goes to
be interviewed and kind of justflips on her daughter because
she's gonna get some attentionfrom it.
Yeah.
You know, and so you're like,oh, well there it is.
Okay.
so there's just a lot of trauma.
(16:12):
You can see that that kind ofgets passed down a lot of.
Personality stuff that isreplicated with Bell in a
different way.
Again, not an excuse.
Mm-hmm.
Just saying you can see it andYeah.
And she traumatizes her, herson.
I mean, now his memories are ofthat as a birthday.
Yeah.
Like his mom being, because asfar as he knows, this little boy
thinks this is real.
Erin (16:33):
I'm curious, like if he grew up and every time he had a
birthday or a party, if thatcaused him.
Fear or anxiety of like, ugh,did I cause this?
Maybe he didn't even wanna havea birthday party after he
might've been like, we're justdoing the three of us from now
on.
No, you know, no friends, noparty.
tanya (16:54):
That's, that is really, that was really terrible.
I hated that scene.
That made me like so upset
Erin (16:58):
kid too, I mean, I remember.
Like as a little kid, like thebirthday parties and stuff like
that, I only remember a couple.
'cause then they caused me as achild, too much, too much
anxiety that I was like, Nope,not gonna do it.
I remember like waiting forfriends to come, being all
anxious, crying, like if no onewas coming.
But I can't imagine howstressful that would be as a
(17:20):
little kid if your mom orsomeone is just falling to the
ground, you know it.
That would be so stressful.
And I'd be like, Nope.
Never having a birthday party.
tanya (17:29):
Yeah.
That would just be like, no, nothanks.
Maybe I hate my birthday now.
Yeah, yeah.
and, and also, you know, I,we've, we haven't talked about
some of the other charactersthat they do feature in the
dramatization, which.
We, we know, like one is, isfairly accurate.
It's a little different than howit's portrayed, but it's, it's
pretty accurate.
Yeah.
where there is one woman who sheidolizes Bell and she, is seeing
(17:53):
how, you know, bell, bell gotbetter from all this, holistic.
Treatment and all this stuffthat she's touting on her
socials and everything, and sheis just really worn down by the
chemo.
Is just like, I don't wanna livethis way to, I mean, totally
understandable.
but, but takes that as like, oh,maybe I can do some of this as
(18:14):
well too.
Mm-hmm.
and I don't know if that wasLucy.
I don't know how, how, if thatwas an actual true character or
not.
but she ends up.
Trying to kind of go in andspiritually try to find answers
to like, maybe accept death and,and try some other kind of
natural means of, of dealingwith this.
(18:37):
And she actually ends up findinga pretty good balance for
herself, at least as thecharacter and husband
Erin (18:42):
is one of the main reporters too, So that would be
interesting if she really was areal character.
tanya (18:48):
Yeah, because he really sees, you know, he, he's
obviously in in love with, youknow, his wife and he's so
worried about her listening tothis person that he's like, it,
it just doesn't sound right tohim in his journalistic
investigative mind.
Yeah.
He's like, this is very weird.
Yeah.
And he starts to investigatethat and lo and andhold.
Yeah, there's some weird stuffabout it.
(19:09):
for sure.
And he ends up in, in thedramatization writing the, the
story.
Take her down because she neededto be taken down.
and there's also othercharacters.
There's a Millie and her mom.
Right.
That was a sad one.
That is actually, you said ispretty.
Yeah, I don't remember people'snames,
Erin (19:28):
but it is very similar to what happened.
and that's sad too.
And you don't know if they wereinfluenced by her or if they
just were going on their ownholistic journey themselves.
And this is just a.
Side by side comparison.
tanya (19:42):
Yeah.
I think in the Netflix specialit made it seem like this.
Millie was very, kind ofhardheaded.
she realized she had.
some tumors in her arm.
they had said like, okay,usually the treatment is
amputation of the arm.
And she was like, no, I don'twanna do that.
that's not something I'm willingto accept.
And she was reading about, Ithink, on her own, some,
(20:03):
holistic ways of curing this.
and then also, being able to trya direct infusion into her arm
to be like, will that help it?
It didn't help it.
And she, I think just becomesstrengthened by the fact that
like there's this place in CostaRica where,
Erin (20:19):
I don't know if she did Costa Rica or she did somewhere
else, but some, somewhere inthat area.
'cause yeah, Mexico, maybebecause I know, I think it one
person went to Costa Rica andmaybe it was Mexico.
Lucy.
Yeah.
Lucy went to.
tanya (20:31):
And then, yeah, I think it was Mexico.
I'm not remembering the details.
I watched this when it firstcame out, but I believe it was
in Mexico, this institute thatshe's just taken in by, that's
like, you just need to do allthese enemas, drink just natural
fruit juices.
And, you know, this person isreally Millie, she's very taken
by this and thinks, oh my God, Icould save myself.
(20:52):
This is what doctors aremissing.
And the institute that thisplace is at.
Really touts this.
Like, you know, doctors don'tknow what they're talking about.
Like, we understand like this iswhat happens.
Yeah.
And it makes sense to someonewho's really desperate to be
like, I don't wanna lose my arm.
Yeah.
This young girl
Erin (21:07):
who's like in her twenties, right?
Yeah.
tanya (21:09):
And, and the
Erin (21:09):
person is like, oh, I am, I forget, forget.
I think she was like fromGermany or something like that.
And my father was this renownedscientist and this and that.
And so then you're like, oh,wow.
So they know what they'retalking about.
and then they're probably paidthousands and thousands of
dollars to do it.
it just seems so shady thatthey're doing it, but they're,
you know, they're doing it in adifferent manner than Bell Belle
(21:30):
Gibson.
'cause it's like, oh, look atthis great institute we have and
we have all these people andwe're doing this and we're doing
coffee enemas and, you know.
tanya (21:39):
It seems so effective and like they back it up with like,
oh, I couldn't, I had, I had hipsurgery and I was given a 90%
chance to never walk again andlook at me and all these other
cases that they presented andwhen they would have like their
kind of, their one-on-ones likethe psychological, like I can't,
I don't know if I can continueto believe this.
The woman who who ran the centerwas very much kind of convincing
(22:01):
and being like, you have tobelieve it.
You have to kind of, you know,know that this is something that
is, you know, that's part ofyour mental block.
Like that's just the only thingthat's, that's coming between
you and, just a, a lot of, a lotof gui honestly.
Yeah.
It really was a lot of themagical, like, believe in the
Erin (22:16):
and having her, whatever was happening with her arm is a
lot different than hip surgery.
You know?
'cause maybe the being outsidein the mountains or whatever was
good for someone with hipsurgery.
'cause they're walking andthey're mobile.
You know, so maybe that washelping them, not the, not the
coffee enemas or in the juicing,
tanya (22:34):
or maybe just having the support.
Yeah, maybe having a lot ofmoney, you know, and having a
lot of help.
Like there could have been somany different factors towards
that.
She took her mom there.
And you know, her mom was like,okay, you know, like they, her
mom and dad really, her dad wasreally opposed to this, but he
didn't go with her.
The mom did.
And the mom was like, I reallywant to support this choice.
(22:55):
But she, you could tell she haddoubts, but then after she
talked with the, the woman whoowned it, she was like, okay,
maybe this is something.
Yeah.
Because she just seemed veryconvinced of it.
And it's, it's really sadbecause then.
You know it, not that that, Imean, I'm sure having enemas and
drinking fresh fruit juice andbeing out and walking and living
the style, I'm sure that's veryhealthy, but that may not
(23:15):
necessarily be a cure.
Right.
For, you know, like there may besome people who get lucky and
maybe something or versus bysome circumstance mm-hmm.
Some happenstance, but it doesnot mean that that was
necessarily connected.
Erin (23:26):
mix it together with traditional and.
Alternative.
Yeah.
Or find something or, yeah.
I can't imagine just living onjuice.
Whew.
tanya (23:36):
and I mean, that was kind of like that lifestyle promoted,
you had to be devoted just kindof to that.
Right.
The enemas were like five timesa day.
Yeah.
The juices were like 14 juices.
Erin (23:45):
yeah, that seems like it would wreck havoc.
tanya (23:48):
Yeah, I think they made jokes about that.
They were kinda like, yeah, Igotta be near her bathroom kind
of thing.
but the sad part about that, andI have to say, the character of
Millie to me, frustrated me aflike, I understand that she
wanted to believe this.
But then with her mom, she wasreally pushing her mom, and her
mom got sick.
She was really pushing her momto do this and to, you know,
(24:10):
kind of say, okay, you know,this is something That, mm-hmm.
That you need to do as well too.
All you need to do, I'll even dothe enemas, like I know the
protocol.
Like she thought she just kneweverything how to cure this.
And it turns out her mom was Adifferent story.
Yeah, I mean she was too.
She didn't realize that, youknow, at that point.
But you know, her mom was like,got really sick when she first
(24:31):
got the enemas and really had tobe brought to the hospital and
realized, oh my gosh, maybe thisis not going to work for her.
But the mom really wants to gothrough the treatment because.
We realized the mom feels guiltybecause she was like, well, what
kind of mom would I be if I letmy daughter do this?
And I didn't do this too, like Ididn't believe in it.
and, and I have to say thedaughter, I know the daughter
(24:52):
wants to believe in it, but shereally is pushy and, and to, and
allows her mom to the life.
And, and I know this is just thecharacter.
And I know there's, there's ahard mindset here, and maybe I
can't even put myself in thatperson's shoes, but.
That that, that annoyed me.
Yeah, that really, that reallyfrustrated me.
Erin (25:07):
scenes where I was like, Ugh, I just love the dad because
you know, he's trying to standup for the mom and even stand up
for Millie, and the boyfriend isso annoying and they're just
like toting this vegan lifestyleand everything else, if you
don't wanna be in it, you shouldnot force other people into
everything like that.
(25:27):
And then the dad is just like,you're killing her.
Your kid, you know, like, andhe's trying to say like don't
force your lifestyle for, foryour medical beliefs or
everything else on your mom.
tanya (25:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Erin (25:38):
Millie knew it wasn't working for her.
She was hiding.
Hiding at that moment, she washiding her arm, had all the
sores or the boils or whatever,and at the same time, she's
telling her mom like, don't takeany medication.
tanya (25:49):
Yeah.
Which I recognize was like aform of denial.
Mm-hmm.
She didn't wanna believe she isdying.
She wanted to believe this wasworking.
But I, I just think it's so sadthat, the mom could, I mean, the
mom could had maybe a chance,you know, maybe she did too,
had, if she was able to admit toherself, like, Hey, maybe I just
need to look at this as well,you know, it doesn't have to be
fully this.
She could have maybe had maybestill the arm amputation.
(26:12):
Yeah.
Which is of course, really,really hard.
Yeah.
And then it was just too late bythe time she recognized it and
she showed her dad and was like,I didn't get remission from
this.
And the mom dies.
Yeah.
so it's just really frustratingto see.
I think there's an overall themein this showing, like we said,
there's a balance betweenlooking at holistic options, but
also in saying you can't solelyrely on that.
(26:34):
A hundred percent all the time.
Especially, I mean, depending onwhat it is, but in those cases,
certainly not.
Well, and also
Erin (26:41):
both, with both of those people that we're talking about
Belle and Millie, it's thinking,you know, like not thinking that
you're the be all, end all, orthat you have all the answers.
It's okay to seek outside helpor you know, like, yeah, not
just one person or one resourceeither.
tanya (26:57):
Yeah, and I think they're doing it for different reasons,
like Belle is doing it forattention.
And the fact that she's gotpersonality disorder, she's
trying to meet other needs.
Millie is doing it because shereally wants to feel like she's
in control.
Like, she shouldn't just havethis option of like, oh, chop
off my arm, or that's it.
Which is of courseunderstandable.
But unfortunately, I think thatwas maybe the reality and the
surgeon was like, listen to me.
(27:19):
The surgeon was trying to warnher.
Yeah.
And it's just heartbreaking, Ithink to see that.
because of course when you're inthat situation, you wanna
believe there's otheralternatives.
Yeah.
but Bella is a totally differentstory because she gave hope and
published all these, these
Erin (27:34):
I one thing too, like, which is very like, you know, I
don't know what her diagnosis,but it is very much like a
narcissist.
Like where she would love bomb,every single person, you know,
like all the people.
Then just, you know, like, itjust seemed like she was just so
trans, like almost in like atrance with like the phone and
the app and like just, oh look,what are people saying?
(27:57):
What are, how are peoplereplying to what I'm posting
and.
It just, you know, do they loveme or is it all about me?
And her reality was just veryskewed in every
tanya (28:07):
aspect.
Yeah, it really was.
And she really was getting likesuch a feed from that.
And she would do anything and tothe point where, you know, she,
she was confronted by, Millie'sfriend who was, you know, that,
that she was like, basicallylike, we know, you know, why
don't you just come clean?
And to be honest, it looked likefor, for a minute, you know,
that, That Bell was gonna belike, okay, yeah, yeah, maybe I
(28:31):
should, maybe I should.
And the friend kind of thoughtlike, oh wow, she's gonna, she's
gonna come clean.
And then she ups the ante andsays she now has three new
cancers.
it's like she needs even more.
All these underlying mentalhealth themes with personality
disorders, how they can showalso influencers and not
checking your resources, notknowing what is good for your
(28:51):
own health versus just relyingon what people are putting out
there as content.
Mm-hmm.
you know, the fact that it madeit to a book That is, I think, a
fault of there not being properchecks.
In place.
I do think that was anirresponsibility.
On the part of the publishersand everything, I don't really
know if that's something theywould typically do.
Like, I don't know that process,but there was something that was
(29:13):
missing there.
Erin (29:14):
say, I mean, they, maybe they would check your medical
records or something, because itseems like for interviews even
they, they say, let's see your.
You know, your references or youknow, so why would they not for
a, a very expensive book deal,why would they not say we need
references or we need proof thatthis is real.
tanya (29:34):
yeah.
And I mean the woman who was,publishing it, was kind of
asking, and then they had thatwhole crisis.
session with her to be like,okay, if you go on interviews,
you have to be ready to answerthis.
And I couldn't tell if this wasthem trying to be like, wait,
now she's full of it.
Or, well, because she was
Erin (29:51):
kind of backpedaling at that point too.
Bell was in the movie orwhatever it is.
Show.
She's like, oh, maybe we don'thave to mention the cancer.
tanya (30:00):
yeah.
Erin (30:01):
cookbook or we're this, and they're like, no.
That's a big part of the
tanya (30:05):
story and the selling points and that everybody wants,
Erin (30:08):
wanted, wanted that.
Yeah.
I think at that point she waslike, oh, crap.
I am, I'm getting, you know,because she, she had had the
email from the, you know, thereporters and everything, so at
that point she's probablyrealizing like, oh, great,
everybody is.
What my truth is, it's gonnacome out.
tanya (30:23):
Yeah.
But I, I do wonder, I, I have,I, I'm not sure if this really
happened or not, but in the, theNetflix dramatization, they,
they had that, session with her,and I think they, they were onto
her, but I almost feel likethere was, they were trying to
be like, you have to be able tosell this.
You know, it started to becomevery apparent that they're like,
all right, we gotta this.
We, so they were aware of it ata certain point, late, late in
(30:47):
the game, you know?
And, but we're like, okay, let'sstill try to sell Yeah, yeah.
We still have to make money offof this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's, it's truly, I mean,and this is, you know, I've,
I've watched interviews with thereal Belle Gibson.
She is a slippery slopepersonified.
she is just really.
Avoids questions.
(31:08):
They, they're very vague inanswers.
They don't make sense.
there's a famous interview withher, with Tara Brown, which
actually Tara Brown is in thedramatization.
She is Tara Brown.
Oh, that is her.
Okay.
So that's interesting.
That is her.
Yeah, they had her in there.
she's like, Australia's likehard hitting journalist.
apparently they love her and youknow, she just gets to the point
and she, she definitely did.
Erin (31:28):
I think you said she has that same Pink, pink sweater?
tanya (31:32):
Yes.
Which I don't know if it'strying to be like innocent, so
like, I'm just wearing thislike, yeah.
Like I'm just kind of a, a, youknow, everyday person just
wearing pink, you know?
And I, I don't know what theintention was.
It probably was thought out,
Erin (31:44):
I mean, it doesn't seem like she did anything not well
planned.
tanya (31:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She definitely was verymanipulative.
Mm-hmm.
But, yeah, and, and you know,the brother has been, her
brother has been interviewedbeing like, I don't know why she
said I was autistic or that shetook care of me.
Like, that's just not true.
You know?
he actually seemed to be prettymuch like, I, I still care about
her.
I just don't get this kind of,so he was, yeah, I'd be really
(32:10):
mad
Erin (32:11):
at my sister or brother if they were doing that.
This is affecting me and myreputation doing everything.
tanya (32:17):
Yeah.
you know what?
There's one more thing that wedidn't mention was the little
boy who she was raising fundsfor, who actually had a brain
tumor and like a really advancedone, and she ended up not giving
them money that they needed.
And they were depending on thatfor the surgery that he needed.
It was like too late to be like,oh, well, where else can we get
(32:38):
the funds?
I don't know how accurate thatwas.
in the true life story, but thatis just horrendous.
I did read that she,
Erin (32:43):
well, part of the things too is she promised I think it
was$300,000 to differentcharities that she would, you
know, probably even more thatshe never did anything for.
So she probably was scamming abunch of people.
tanya (32:57):
yeah, like raising like GoFundMe and then not giving
them the money when they'redonating for that purpose.
Erin (33:02):
which makes you really question how many times, like
when you see all these GoFundMe,but these GoFundMe that people
have, like how many are peopleactually using for what they say
they are?
And how much are people justusing the money and then buying
themselves a new car even thoughthey say they're helping someone
else?
There's really no way.
hopefully people are actuallyusing it.
(33:23):
But you don't know, I mean,you're just putting your trust
in these people.
tanya (33:26):
Well, she really doesn't give a good name to it.
for sure.
I think people are very, youknow, she definitely lost a lot
of people's trust and kind ofcaused them to look over things
a few times.
Yeah.
Before trusting anything if, ifat all again.
But it definitely tells us thatwe should really look into who
these people are, theseinfluencers.
you really don't know.
(33:48):
there's lots of people who cansay things and you may not ever
know if it's true and they maybe touting these things that
this'll work for you.
It really is just worth it to doyour research.
and it's understandable if youwanna go a holistic route, if
you want to do functionaltreatment.
But, it just, it really carefulWith your sources there.
(34:09):
It's not just because it looksgood on social media does not
mean it.
Even if the person hascredentials,
Erin (34:15):
still look and see what it is.
Because like we were saying,like, you know, I keep, my
algorithm is like.
Probably all charlatans rightnow, but like, I feel like I'm
getting touted, like everythinglately, like, oh, join this
course, do this.
You wanna be younger, you wannabe richer, you wanna be this,
you want, you know, like I keepgetting all this stuff and it's
(34:36):
like, oh my gosh, how do I stopthis?
but yeah, just be careful oflike who you're looking at or
who you're following, you know?
Or just, be aware that some ofthese people, they have
alternative motives.
For sure.
tanya (34:47):
Yeah.
And that is the story of BillGibson and her horrendous.
complete and utter lack ofregard for anyone but herself.
Yeah.
even including her son.
Which I do believe she reallycares for and loves him, but in
the way that only she can, whichhas limitations to what it seems
like.
So, anything else we wanna popin there that we didn't cover?
(35:08):
No, I think we
Erin (35:08):
I'm curious what your question is gonna be this week.
Uh, you're like, oh no, I haveto think of what thought about
this.
tanya (35:14):
No, I did think of when we were talking and I'm like,
this is probably a pretty toughquestion, but.
Okay.
So if you had to for say, 30days, just for like a health
routine, not because you'retrying to cure anything, but you
had to choose between gettingcoffee enemas five times a day
or drinking up to 14 glasses ofto a fruit juice.
(35:38):
What would you choose?
Erin (35:39):
say neither?
tanya (35:40):
No, because even though, because the
Erin (35:40):
juices looked so gross, they weren't like, just like, it
was like, you know, like, here'syour beet juice, here's this.
But, I guess I would do thejuice and I don't know, I don't
think I'd be able to do 14 ofthem.
I think I'd probably max out atthree and then just be like, oh
gosh, I mean 14.
tanya (35:58):
of sugar.
I know it's natural sugar, butit's still a lot of sugar.
Erin (36:01):
it's just like,'cause even that, like your stomach would
cramp up it just because I'vedone like the juicing before,
I'm like, I'm gonna, I have buya, you know, like years ago I'm
like, I bought a juicer.
I'm gonna do a juice.
I couldn't even drink one glassof like fresh done juice with
like beet and celery and apple.
Like, I've done all that.
I'm like, okay, it's gonna begreat.
It's like.
It's so gross.
(36:22):
Like when you make it yourself.
tanya (36:23):
Yeah.
I think that would be horrible.
So maybe we would say like fivetimes a day or something.
Then I still think that's prettybad, but I would go with the
juice as well.
I think coffee enemas, you haveto be careful about in general.
And colon cancers are on therise of people under like in
between 30 and 40 in the UnitedStates.
That's why they lowered thecolon ch to 45.
(36:45):
and I don't think that that issomething necessarily regulated
nor healthy and could be verydamaging.
Yeah.
but the juices, yeah, I thinkare, I think it's not great if
for sugar, you know, orwhatever, but.
I think that would probably bemore palatable.
So I'd go for that too.
hopefully we'd never have to bein that situation.
(37:05):
This is just a random Whereyou're forced it's question.
I'll give
Erin (37:07):
you a few thousand dollars if you do this.
yeah.
'cause I remember when I did tryto do, I wasn't on like a juice
cleanse.
I'd just like, I bought thisbook, it's called like the Juice
in Bible, and I bought this nicejuicer, not the ninja one, but
just like a, you know, nicer,nice juicer and there's such a
pain in the neck to clean.
And it was just like, even ifyou really clean your fruit or
vegetable before, it stilltastes like dirt.
(37:29):
It's still like, you know it'snot.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
'cause I would always be like,yeah, because I'm experience are
supposed to be good and do thisand Yeah.
And then you get like this, youget like, just like, you don't
get a full glass.
It's a lot of juicing for alittle bit of effort and then
you're just kind of, it istrying to stomach it down.
Yeah.
No, thank you.
I'd rather like a smoothie.
tanya (37:49):
Yeah.
I think that's acceptable inthis imaginary situation.
Okay.
Also, someone else can make itfirst.
Yeah.
Maybe I'll just change mine intoan
Erin (37:54):
ice cream shake.
tanya (37:55):
Or maybe, maybe we'll just not do it.
Yeah, yeah.
Overall I'll just have a coffeeor just drink some water.
Erin (38:00):
Yeah, drink a coffee.
and then I'll just eat somefruit for my juice.
Yeah.
That's what I'll do.
tanya (38:05):
Yes.
that sounds a lot healthier.
See balance people, that's whatwe're talking about.
these are just not.
Balanced routines.
I'm not saying, you know, if youhave your own thing, I don't
know everybody's situation, butnot in these instances.
they weren't.
we hope you enjoyed that.
Let us know what you think, ifyou have anything to add, follow
us on socials.
We're on everything, includingYouTube.
(38:26):
We are there now.
send us a review, five starreview.
Really helps.
send it to your friends.
Erin (38:31):
We would love to.
Yes.
Get to a thousand downloads aday or more.
Absolutely.
And don't forget, stay wickedand keep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
We'll talk to you soon.
Bye-Bye.
Bye.
Hey guys, this is Tanya.
Hi, this is Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
tanya (00:35):
Welcome to another episode.
we are actually, in our.
Third season.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And so this is, this is prettyexciting.
we should count up how manyepisodes?
I know we got 75 episodes nottoo long ago.
Erin (00:47):
it's, I think we're at like 75 or, well more than 75.
So probably at least 78.
tanya (00:53):
Yeah, we're getting up there.
So thank you for continuing tojoin us.
If you're new here.
we are.
A podcast that likes to discusssome.
topics involving mental healthrevolving around movies shows
sitcoms, documentaries, thingslike that.
That's kind of our niche.
but today we are discussing ifyou have been active on Netflix,
(01:14):
you would be very aware of this.
It's called Apple Cider Vinegar.
and it is a dramatization of,based on a real story, which
some, some of the facts havebeen changed.
It's not completely accurate,which they very much put in
there.
and it involves a gamer namedBell Gibson, whom we do not
(01:35):
alike very much.
So she is a real character.
She is someone who was able tofool many people, made a lot of
profit off of, products andcontent and apps, books, or a
book that then got revoked,which talked about leading a
healthy lifestyle.
(01:56):
And being able to cure thecancer that she says she had.
Mm-hmm.
Which, spoiler alert she did notHave cancer at all.
which as you can see, this isreally dangerous.
Mm-hmm.
not only mentally corrupt andhorrendous, but, just
absolutely.
I think one of the worst thingsyou can do.
(02:16):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
so Belle, we learn is a complexcharacter.
She is really someone whopresents things with a lot of
confidence.
She has the ability to lie onthe fly.
Like she really can pull outthose lies and construct these
very confident narratives thatpeople just.
You know, I think most peoplewould believe.
(02:37):
Mm-hmm.
Because she just comes off so,straightforward, so
knowledgeable.
And she is, she's very smart.
she's not a, she's not a stupidperson and she doesn't know a
lot about, the natural food,holistic way of living.
I'm trying to remember how she,how she starts out saying she
has, cancer.
(02:58):
I think it was from, She waskind of hurt by something and
then she kind of gets so hurtthat she feels like she needs
attention and, starts to writeall these things online about
how she has cancer.
Yeah.
Do you remember what that firstevent was?
Erin (03:11):
I think it was something being a, you know, she was in a
bad relationship with her sons.
Father they were poor, you know,like, you know, young and poor.
And it seems like she wasn'tgetting any attention from
anybody.
So, and I don't know if youknow, and her mom had m ms, so
she was familiar with braindiseases.
This is what I got.
(03:32):
And then I don't think shereally had an MRI, I think she
probably, maybe she did or hadsomething.
And then of course there was nofindings'cause she didn't have
anything.
But then I think she, that'swhen she ran with it.
Like, oh, I got a lot ofattention getting the testing
and what would it look like?
you know, since I'm a stay athome mom, or I'm not really
(03:54):
having any support from anybody.
And I think that was when it,she started to run with it, you
know, and be like, okay, let mecreate this diagnosis and this
persona.
tanya (04:05):
Yeah, I feel like there was some need for attention, and
that she was really kind oflooking for something to be able
to continue to say, okay, thisis going to feed my need for
attention, I feel like sheprobably had some form of, and
this is just a guess.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I don't reallyknow this Right.
Because we don't work with her.
We don't treat her.
(04:26):
You know, it's just, but itseems like maybe fictitious
disorder.
Yeah.
Or Munchausen.
Right.
Like, not by proxy, not imposedon another.
But, like maybe for herself thatmaybe she realized, oh, if I do
this, people will give meattention.
I think she started to see, shewas reading another profile and
seeing how much support And, youknow, kind of, Online, presence.
This other person was getting orother people.
(04:47):
And so she, I think, said, well,I'm so upset.
I'm gonna go to the hospital andsay, you know, I have, headaches
or I have all these symptoms andget attention from that.
And then she just decided topost online that even though
these were not the results shewas told everything was fine by
the hospital to say that she hadbrain cancer.
Right.
which is.
(05:09):
You know, the kind that she hadsaid, she, she had, it was,
that's a pretty, a prettydevastating diagnosis.
Mm-hmm.
and it's, you know, I think shehad said she was in like a, a
late stage too, which, at thatpoint there's, there's a pretty
low chance of survival.
Nevermind even like living kindof well day to day.
(05:29):
Right.
And she started to promote.
A lifestyle of this holisticliving that's, you know, saying,
okay, I followed these recipes.
Mm-hmm.
This type of, of eating, youknow, made, all these, these,
she was, she was good atinventing recipes.
Really good recipes.
She could like just do'em on.
Erin (05:47):
just use her stuff for good instead of evil and just be
like, Hey, I could be aninfluencer and look at these
really great, I love to cook andI can make really good recipes.
tanya (05:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She looked like she was makingsome great stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I was like, oh, that looksgood.
And she, she like didn't evenhave to really do the re, like
she didn't have to put muchthought into it.
She was just like, yeah, you dothis and that.
She had like a natural talentfor it, I think.
and instead she created thiswhole narrative about this type
of living was the thing that wasreversing her.
(06:20):
Her cancer.
I think she had said, you know,this is stuff that I, I don't
know if she said she went intoremission or if she was like,
just, I dunno, doing a lotbetter.
I'm not really sure what thereal, because this is based on a
True story.
but there again, there's somefacts that are not quite real.
there's some liberties taken,but, she ends up getting a huge
following people.
(06:42):
Really believe this story.
And this is dangerous obviously,because she did not have cancer.
And some people may feel, kindof fed up with the options they
may have.
From, this type of cancertreatment or, you know, having
to.
seek out, pay for, right.
Go through the difficulties ofthis and may think, wow, maybe I
have a shot at being able tocure my cancer or have this be
(07:04):
in remission, when this does nothave a high probability of being
in remission.
And, she affects some people,But in the meantime, she gets
all this attention.
She also gets a book deal, whichwas actually on Apple, like an
app for it.
And it was, I mean, she just hadsuch confidence and wherewithal
that people didn't really, youknow, I don't think they thought
(07:25):
anybody would lie about havingcancer.
Well, she's really good atselling
Erin (07:28):
So, and I think that's too, like, she made people, you
know, again, even though waslike, whatever.
Stuff was going on with her.
She could have done really wellbeing an honest person.
'cause it seemed like she wasreally good at marketing
herself.
She was really good at creatingand you know, getting in these
difficult meetings probably withApple.
And so if she would've just beenlike, Hey, I am a 20 something
(07:51):
year old and I'm never gone toculinary school, but look at
what I can do.
People would've been impressedwithout her making all these
other lies.
tanya (07:59):
Yeah.
And I, I know there wassomething about, I don't know
how true this is'cause I don'tknow anything about like the
publishing world or anything,but I know that the person that
she goes to when she goes topublish, she kind of tricks into
getting a meeting.
Yeah.
You know, she's got all theseresourceful ways of being like,
oh, let me in.
And it somehow works.
But the woman, I can't think ofher name, the one who published
her book had said, you know,it's the story behind it.
(08:22):
Right.
you know, it's not necessarilyjust that you have these things,
it's the story behind it.
And I think Bell kind of sensedtoo late, like, oh, I've put out
this narrative now.
This is what's going to make itsell, Right.
But if she had, presented itmaybe from the beginning and
gone a different route.
Yeah.
That could have been really, youknow, like a, single parent,
who, doesn't have much time butis able to make this healthy
(08:44):
lifestyle work.
Erin (08:45):
Yeah, people would've been interested in that.
'cause you see that now, likeyou see like, I don't know, I
always feel like my things areflooded by like.
look at what I've done by myselfand I don't have, it's probably
all the join.
Yeah.
Sign up for my course.
Or you, like, you're alwayslike,
tanya (09:01):
right.
Erin (09:03):
Yeah.
And you're like, I don't, why amI getting this?
how did I get on that algorithm?
I always wonder that, what did Iaccidentally click on that?
Now all of a sudden, I am likeevery single course in the
world, or every single.
Thing thinks I wanna join it orbe part of it.
tanya (09:17):
Yeah.
Seriously.
It's like one, one and, and youcould have just really
accidentally clicked on it orjust like even just passed by it
and lingered for a minutebecause you looked up off your
phone and they're like, oh,nope, she's looking at it.
'cause they couldn't even readthat off the algorithm.
Yeah.
but.
this person is very dishonest.
she is dangerous.
She believes her lies to thepoint where she probably still
(09:39):
to this day believes her lies.
I don't know if that's true, butit seemed like it from some of
the last interviews she gave.
But to kind of backtrack alittle bit, we do learn about
her, her childhood.
We see that her mom has some,some stuff going on.
Right.
She, she had ms, it was, I thinkmom had said it's actually was
(10:00):
not as much as Bell hadexaggerated and said it was like
she had to take care of thewhole household.
And her younger autisticbrother, which was not true or
younger, brother, was notautistic, and she did not have
to take care of the household.
the mom was like, I had mildflareups.
But also the mom had somecompetitiveness when she has a
boyfriend, she's really happy toflaunt that with balls.
(10:23):
Like they have thiscompetitiveness.
mom definitely has somepersonality.
Disorder ish stuff that she is,you can tell, has really
influenced and affected Bellbecause Bell obviously has that
too.
so there's definitely anunhealthy dynamic there.
A lot of emotional,
Erin (10:38):
immature parenting happening, and, you know, it's
Probably that may haveinfluenced whatever personality
disorder Bell may have from herchildhood.
tanya (10:49):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and I think she probablyjust wanted to go and reinvent
herself and be somethingcompletely different.
This is what a success lookslike.
And in that way you can kind of,understand her, but not how she
did it, of course.
but you know, and then there'salso, she meets Clive who is the
person she meets after, thefather of her child leaves.
(11:12):
And even in how she meets him ismanipulative.
She wants something from him.
She is, because his positionwill allow her to be able to,
where was he working?
his position would allow her,he's an IT
Erin (11:24):
person somewhere where something that she was trying to
be.
A little more seen, I forgetwhat it was, but she did man
manipulate and she startedflirting and then needed a ride
somewhere.
So then all of a sudden theyjust started to Yeah, date and
is like, she never, like, shejust kind of latched onto his
life.
'cause she was unemployed at thetime and he had a job and he
(11:45):
could probably help her.
tanya (11:46):
Right.
That's what it was.
And she saw him at some kind ofevent and was like, Ooh, he's a
good IT person.
And she goes and flirts withhim.
And I mean, everything is prettytransactional with her.
She wants something from, ifshe's trying to know people and
he's a very, you could tell,kind of nervous, shy, nice guy.
And she knows that she can readthat.
She's very good at readingpeople.
(12:06):
She's very manipulative.
And she, ultimately just takesadvantage of that.
And you know, kind of keeps himaround because he, he can offer
her that stability, but shedoesn't really seem to, consider
what it is he needs.
It's like a one way, one waystreet in the relationship.
and at first he's reallyconcerned with all her health
issues.
(12:27):
he starts to suspect along theway.
when he drops her off for herappointments, he goes into,
because I think she leftsomething in the car.
And he goes in and they're like,we've never heard of that
patient.
And like, this isn't even theright place to get like your
chemotherapy kind of thing.
And he was just like, you know,kind of starting to, to realize
(12:48):
there's, yeah, there's somethinggoing on here.
he's starting to see that inpieces and eventually after a
while he really sees how muchshe lies the patterns that she
has.
And even when he confronts her,he sees how much she will just
kind of pull something out andmake it work, and he's like, oh,
wow.
She's messed up.
She's really kind of messed up,at least in the portrayal of the
(13:08):
documentary or thedramatization.
Erin (13:11):
But he stays with her too, because I think his loyalty to,
yeah.
Her son was Oliver or somethingthat, that he ends up becoming
very attached to, and he ends upbeing basically almost the main
parent because she's so.
Focused on herself and her phoneand her app, and you know, like
(13:32):
whatever else is happening tomake herself look better.
She forgets to interact withreal people.
tanya (13:40):
Yeah.
She's just all about herselfand, and he genuinely loves her
son and feels like it's.
his own son, and she makes acomment in one of the scenes
where it's like, why would yoube able to have any rights?
You're not his father, you'renot on his birth certificate.
and he's so hurt by that becausehe is just like, I've been here
(14:01):
and you would just take thataway from me.
It's just such a rotten thing.
And he basically, was juststaying with her because he
loves the little boy, like hisown.
and yeah, he is parenting himand, and being the only stable
parent because she, she'sallowing, you know, there's one
scene when she has a birthdayparty for Oliver, that she has
parents around.
(14:21):
You know, she made it like thishuge to-do.
It was more kind of like.
It was more a party that waslike, you know, you could take
pictures of and put in amagazine Kind of thing.
And, you know, with her perfecthouse and like she's all about
image.
And when she starts to feel likeshe's not getting enough
attention, all of a sudden shehas a seizure.
(14:43):
And.
She drops like this big plate offood on the floor and nobody
knows what to do.
And you see Clive, her boyfriendkind of like look like upset,
but like at her.
Mm-hmm.
And very annoyed because heknows you just did this at your
son's party in front of him,scared the crap out of him and
just so you could get attention.
(15:05):
Yeah.
And he just kind of takes himaway and is just like so mad at
her about that.
That's just so awful that shewould do that in front of him.
Like not even to think about,now let me just do this fake
seizure narcissistic.
Erin (15:16):
I looked online'cause I was curious and that really did
happen.
All the other things like theydid were kind of fake or, you
know, just added.
But she did definitely fake aseizure at her son's birthday
party, which is like so, soawful to do.
Just like so selfish and soself-absorbed.
(15:36):
It's like, oh, they're payingattention to him.
He's playing with his presents,or whatever's happening, God
forbid, on his birthday.
Yeah.
Now everyone has to stop and youknow, go to you.
tanya (15:52):
Yeah.
She just, it was like thispathological need for attention.
And you can see that in her momwhen her mom ultimately goes to
be interviewed and kind of justflips on her daughter because
she's gonna get some attentionfrom it.
Yeah.
You know, and so you're like,oh, well there it is.
Okay.
so there's just a lot of trauma.
(16:12):
You can see that that kind ofgets passed down a lot of.
Personality stuff that isreplicated with Bell in a
different way.
Again, not an excuse.
Mm-hmm.
Just saying you can see it andYeah.
And she traumatizes her, herson.
I mean, now his memories are ofthat as a birthday.
Yeah.
Like his mom being, because asfar as he knows, this little boy
thinks this is real.
Erin (16:33):
I'm curious, like if he grew up and every time he had a
birthday or a party, if thatcaused him.
Fear or anxiety of like, ugh,did I cause this?
Maybe he didn't even wanna havea birthday party after he
might've been like, we're justdoing the three of us from now
on.
No, you know, no friends, noparty.
tanya (16:54):
That's, that is really, that was really terrible.
I hated that scene.
That made me like so upset
Erin (16:58):
kid too, I mean, I remember.
Like as a little kid, like thebirthday parties and stuff like
that, I only remember a couple.
'cause then they caused me as achild, too much, too much
anxiety that I was like, Nope,not gonna do it.
I remember like waiting forfriends to come, being all
anxious, crying, like if no onewas coming.
But I can't imagine howstressful that would be as a
(17:20):
little kid if your mom orsomeone is just falling to the
ground, you know it.
That would be so stressful.
And I'd be like, Nope.
Never having a birthday party.
tanya (17:29):
Yeah.
That would just be like, no, nothanks.
Maybe I hate my birthday now.
Yeah, yeah.
and, and also, you know, I,we've, we haven't talked about
some of the other charactersthat they do feature in the
dramatization, which.
We, we know, like one is, isfairly accurate.
It's a little different than howit's portrayed, but it's, it's
pretty accurate.
Yeah.
where there is one woman who sheidolizes Bell and she, is seeing
(17:53):
how, you know, bell, bell gotbetter from all this, holistic.
Treatment and all this stuffthat she's touting on her
socials and everything, and sheis just really worn down by the
chemo.
Is just like, I don't wanna livethis way to, I mean, totally
understandable.
but, but takes that as like, oh,maybe I can do some of this as
(18:14):
well too.
Mm-hmm.
and I don't know if that wasLucy.
I don't know how, how, if thatwas an actual true character or
not.
but she ends up.
Trying to kind of go in andspiritually try to find answers
to like, maybe accept death and,and try some other kind of
natural means of, of dealingwith this.
(18:37):
And she actually ends up findinga pretty good balance for
herself, at least as thecharacter and husband
Erin (18:42):
is one of the main reporters too, So that would be
interesting if she really was areal character.
tanya (18:48):
Yeah, because he really sees, you know, he, he's
obviously in in love with, youknow, his wife and he's so
worried about her listening tothis person that he's like, it,
it just doesn't sound right tohim in his journalistic
investigative mind.
Yeah.
He's like, this is very weird.
Yeah.
And he starts to investigatethat and lo and andhold.
Yeah, there's some weird stuffabout it.
(19:09):
for sure.
And he ends up in, in thedramatization writing the, the
story.
Take her down because she neededto be taken down.
and there's also othercharacters.
There's a Millie and her mom.
Right.
That was a sad one.
That is actually, you said ispretty.
Yeah, I don't remember people'snames,
Erin (19:28):
but it is very similar to what happened.
and that's sad too.
And you don't know if they wereinfluenced by her or if they
just were going on their ownholistic journey themselves.
And this is just a.
Side by side comparison.
tanya (19:42):
Yeah.
I think in the Netflix specialit made it seem like this.
Millie was very, kind ofhardheaded.
she realized she had.
some tumors in her arm.
they had said like, okay,usually the treatment is
amputation of the arm.
And she was like, no, I don'twanna do that.
that's not something I'm willingto accept.
And she was reading about, Ithink, on her own, some,
(20:03):
holistic ways of curing this.
and then also, being able to trya direct infusion into her arm
to be like, will that help it?
It didn't help it.
And she, I think just becomesstrengthened by the fact that
like there's this place in CostaRica where,
Erin (20:19):
I don't know if she did Costa Rica or she did somewhere
else, but some, somewhere inthat area.
'cause yeah, Mexico, maybebecause I know, I think it one
person went to Costa Rica andmaybe it was Mexico.
Lucy.
Yeah.
Lucy went to.
tanya (20:31):
And then, yeah, I think it was Mexico.
I'm not remembering the details.
I watched this when it firstcame out, but I believe it was
in Mexico, this institute thatshe's just taken in by, that's
like, you just need to do allthese enemas, drink just natural
fruit juices.
And, you know, this person isreally Millie, she's very taken
by this and thinks, oh my God, Icould save myself.
(20:52):
This is what doctors aremissing.
And the institute that thisplace is at.
Really touts this.
Like, you know, doctors don'tknow what they're talking about.
Like, we understand like this iswhat happens.
Yeah.
And it makes sense to someonewho's really desperate to be
like, I don't wanna lose my arm.
Yeah.
This young girl
Erin (21:07):
who's like in her twenties, right?
Yeah.
tanya (21:09):
And, and the
Erin (21:09):
person is like, oh, I am, I forget, forget.
I think she was like fromGermany or something like that.
And my father was this renownedscientist and this and that.
And so then you're like, oh,wow.
So they know what they'retalking about.
and then they're probably paidthousands and thousands of
dollars to do it.
it just seems so shady thatthey're doing it, but they're,
you know, they're doing it in adifferent manner than Bell Belle
(21:30):
Gibson.
'cause it's like, oh, look atthis great institute we have and
we have all these people andwe're doing this and we're doing
coffee enemas and, you know.
tanya (21:39):
It seems so effective and like they back it up with like,
oh, I couldn't, I had, I had hipsurgery and I was given a 90%
chance to never walk again andlook at me and all these other
cases that they presented andwhen they would have like their
kind of, their one-on-ones likethe psychological, like I can't,
I don't know if I can continueto believe this.
The woman who who ran the centerwas very much kind of convincing
(22:01):
and being like, you have tobelieve it.
You have to kind of, you know,know that this is something that
is, you know, that's part ofyour mental block.
Like that's just the only thingthat's, that's coming between
you and, just a, a lot of, a lotof gui honestly.
Yeah.
It really was a lot of themagical, like, believe in the
Erin (22:16):
and having her, whatever was happening with her arm is a
lot different than hip surgery.
You know?
'cause maybe the being outsidein the mountains or whatever was
good for someone with hipsurgery.
'cause they're walking andthey're mobile.
You know, so maybe that washelping them, not the, not the
coffee enemas or in the juicing,
tanya (22:34):
or maybe just having the support.
Yeah, maybe having a lot ofmoney, you know, and having a
lot of help.
Like there could have been somany different factors towards
that.
She took her mom there.
And you know, her mom was like,okay, you know, like they, her
mom and dad really, her dad wasreally opposed to this, but he
didn't go with her.
The mom did.
And the mom was like, I reallywant to support this choice.
(22:55):
But she, you could tell she haddoubts, but then after she
talked with the, the woman whoowned it, she was like, okay,
maybe this is something.
Yeah.
Because she just seemed veryconvinced of it.
And it's, it's really sadbecause then.
You know it, not that that, Imean, I'm sure having enemas and
drinking fresh fruit juice andbeing out and walking and living
the style, I'm sure that's veryhealthy, but that may not
(23:15):
necessarily be a cure.
Right.
For, you know, like there may besome people who get lucky and
maybe something or versus bysome circumstance mm-hmm.
Some happenstance, but it doesnot mean that that was
necessarily connected.
Erin (23:26):
mix it together with traditional and.
Alternative.
Yeah.
Or find something or, yeah.
I can't imagine just living onjuice.
Whew.
tanya (23:36):
and I mean, that was kind of like that lifestyle promoted,
you had to be devoted just kindof to that.
Right.
The enemas were like five timesa day.
Yeah.
The juices were like 14 juices.
Erin (23:45):
yeah, that seems like it would wreck havoc.
tanya (23:48):
Yeah, I think they made jokes about that.
They were kinda like, yeah, Igotta be near her bathroom kind
of thing.
but the sad part about that, andI have to say, the character of
Millie to me, frustrated me aflike, I understand that she
wanted to believe this.
But then with her mom, she wasreally pushing her mom, and her
mom got sick.
She was really pushing her momto do this and to, you know,
(24:10):
kind of say, okay, you know,this is something That, mm-hmm.
That you need to do as well too.
All you need to do, I'll even dothe enemas, like I know the
protocol.
Like she thought she just kneweverything how to cure this.
And it turns out her mom was Adifferent story.
Yeah, I mean she was too.
She didn't realize that, youknow, at that point.
But you know, her mom was like,got really sick when she first
(24:31):
got the enemas and really had tobe brought to the hospital and
realized, oh my gosh, maybe thisis not going to work for her.
But the mom really wants to gothrough the treatment because.
We realized the mom feels guiltybecause she was like, well, what
kind of mom would I be if I letmy daughter do this?
And I didn't do this too, like Ididn't believe in it.
and, and I have to say thedaughter, I know the daughter
(24:52):
wants to believe in it, but shereally is pushy and, and to, and
allows her mom to the life.
And, and I know this is just thecharacter.
And I know there's, there's ahard mindset here, and maybe I
can't even put myself in thatperson's shoes, but.
That that, that annoyed me.
Yeah, that really, that reallyfrustrated me.
Erin (25:07):
scenes where I was like, Ugh, I just love the dad because
you know, he's trying to standup for the mom and even stand up
for Millie, and the boyfriend isso annoying and they're just
like toting this vegan lifestyleand everything else, if you
don't wanna be in it, you shouldnot force other people into
everything like that.
(25:27):
And then the dad is just like,you're killing her.
Your kid, you know, like, andhe's trying to say like don't
force your lifestyle for, foryour medical beliefs or
everything else on your mom.
tanya (25:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Erin (25:38):
Millie knew it wasn't working for her.
She was hiding.
Hiding at that moment, she washiding her arm, had all the
sores or the boils or whatever,and at the same time, she's
telling her mom like, don't takeany medication.
tanya (25:49):
Yeah.
Which I recognize was like aform of denial.
Mm-hmm.
She didn't wanna believe she isdying.
She wanted to believe this wasworking.
But I, I just think it's so sadthat, the mom could, I mean, the
mom could had maybe a chance,you know, maybe she did too,
had, if she was able to admit toherself, like, Hey, maybe I just
need to look at this as well,you know, it doesn't have to be
fully this.
She could have maybe had maybestill the arm amputation.
(26:12):
Yeah.
Which is of course, really,really hard.
Yeah.
And then it was just too late bythe time she recognized it and
she showed her dad and was like,I didn't get remission from
this.
And the mom dies.
Yeah.
so it's just really frustratingto see.
I think there's an overall themein this showing, like we said,
there's a balance betweenlooking at holistic options, but
also in saying you can't solelyrely on that.
(26:34):
A hundred percent all the time.
Especially, I mean, depending onwhat it is, but in those cases,
certainly not.
Well, and also
Erin (26:41):
both, with both of those people that we're talking about
Belle and Millie, it's thinking,you know, like not thinking that
you're the be all, end all, orthat you have all the answers.
It's okay to seek outside helpor you know, like, yeah, not
just one person or one resourceeither.
tanya (26:57):
Yeah, and I think they're doing it for different reasons,
like Belle is doing it forattention.
And the fact that she's gotpersonality disorder, she's
trying to meet other needs.
Millie is doing it because shereally wants to feel like she's
in control.
Like, she shouldn't just havethis option of like, oh, chop
off my arm, or that's it.
Which is of courseunderstandable.
But unfortunately, I think thatwas maybe the reality and the
surgeon was like, listen to me.
(27:19):
The surgeon was trying to warnher.
Yeah.
And it's just heartbreaking, Ithink to see that.
because of course when you're inthat situation, you wanna
believe there's otheralternatives.
Yeah.
but Bella is a totally differentstory because she gave hope and
published all these, these
Erin (27:34):
I one thing too, like, which is very like, you know, I
don't know what her diagnosis,but it is very much like a
narcissist.
Like where she would love bomb,every single person, you know,
like all the people.
Then just, you know, like, itjust seemed like she was just so
trans, like almost in like atrance with like the phone and
the app and like just, oh look,what are people saying?
(27:57):
What are, how are peoplereplying to what I'm posting
and.
It just, you know, do they loveme or is it all about me?
And her reality was just veryskewed in every
tanya (28:07):
aspect.
Yeah, it really was.
And she really was getting likesuch a feed from that.
And she would do anything and tothe point where, you know, she,
she was confronted by, Millie'sfriend who was, you know, that,
that she was like, basicallylike, we know, you know, why
don't you just come clean?
And to be honest, it looked likefor, for a minute, you know,
that, That Bell was gonna belike, okay, yeah, yeah, maybe I
(28:31):
should, maybe I should.
And the friend kind of thoughtlike, oh wow, she's gonna, she's
gonna come clean.
And then she ups the ante andsays she now has three new
cancers.
it's like she needs even more.
All these underlying mentalhealth themes with personality
disorders, how they can showalso influencers and not
checking your resources, notknowing what is good for your
(28:51):
own health versus just relyingon what people are putting out
there as content.
Mm-hmm.
you know, the fact that it madeit to a book That is, I think, a
fault of there not being properchecks.
In place.
I do think that was anirresponsibility.
On the part of the publishersand everything, I don't really
know if that's something theywould typically do.
Like, I don't know that process,but there was something that was
(29:13):
missing there.
Erin (29:14):
say, I mean, they, maybe they would check your medical
records or something, because itseems like for interviews even
they, they say, let's see your.
You know, your references or youknow, so why would they not for
a, a very expensive book deal,why would they not say we need
references or we need proof thatthis is real.
tanya (29:34):
yeah.
And I mean the woman who was,publishing it, was kind of
asking, and then they had thatwhole crisis.
session with her to be like,okay, if you go on interviews,
you have to be ready to answerthis.
And I couldn't tell if this wasthem trying to be like, wait,
now she's full of it.
Or, well, because she was
Erin (29:51):
kind of backpedaling at that point too.
Bell was in the movie orwhatever it is.
Show.
She's like, oh, maybe we don'thave to mention the cancer.
tanya (30:00):
yeah.
Erin (30:01):
cookbook or we're this, and they're like, no.
That's a big part of the
tanya (30:05):
story and the selling points and that everybody wants,
Erin (30:08):
wanted, wanted that.
Yeah.
I think at that point she waslike, oh, crap.
I am, I'm getting, you know,because she, she had had the
email from the, you know, thereporters and everything, so at
that point she's probablyrealizing like, oh, great,
everybody is.
What my truth is, it's gonnacome out.
tanya (30:23):
Yeah.
But I, I do wonder, I, I have,I, I'm not sure if this really
happened or not, but in the, theNetflix dramatization, they,
they had that, session with her,and I think they, they were onto
her, but I almost feel likethere was, they were trying to
be like, you have to be able tosell this.
You know, it started to becomevery apparent that they're like,
all right, we gotta this.
We, so they were aware of it ata certain point, late, late in
(30:47):
the game, you know?
And, but we're like, okay, let'sstill try to sell Yeah, yeah.
We still have to make money offof this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's, it's truly, I mean,and this is, you know, I've,
I've watched interviews with thereal Belle Gibson.
She is a slippery slopepersonified.
she is just really.
Avoids questions.
(31:08):
They, they're very vague inanswers.
They don't make sense.
there's a famous interview withher, with Tara Brown, which
actually Tara Brown is in thedramatization.
She is Tara Brown.
Oh, that is her.
Okay.
So that's interesting.
That is her.
Yeah, they had her in there.
she's like, Australia's likehard hitting journalist.
apparently they love her and youknow, she just gets to the point
and she, she definitely did.
Erin (31:28):
I think you said she has that same Pink, pink sweater?
tanya (31:32):
Yes.
Which I don't know if it'strying to be like innocent, so
like, I'm just wearing thislike, yeah.
Like I'm just kind of a, a, youknow, everyday person just
wearing pink, you know?
And I, I don't know what theintention was.
It probably was thought out,
Erin (31:44):
I mean, it doesn't seem like she did anything not well
planned.
tanya (31:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She definitely was verymanipulative.
Mm-hmm.
But, yeah, and, and you know,the brother has been, her
brother has been interviewedbeing like, I don't know why she
said I was autistic or that shetook care of me.
Like, that's just not true.
You know?
he actually seemed to be prettymuch like, I, I still care about
her.
I just don't get this kind of,so he was, yeah, I'd be really
(32:10):
mad
Erin (32:11):
at my sister or brother if they were doing that.
This is affecting me and myreputation doing everything.
tanya (32:17):
Yeah.
you know what?
There's one more thing that wedidn't mention was the little
boy who she was raising fundsfor, who actually had a brain
tumor and like a really advancedone, and she ended up not giving
them money that they needed.
And they were depending on thatfor the surgery that he needed.
It was like too late to be like,oh, well, where else can we get
(32:38):
the funds?
I don't know how accurate thatwas.
in the true life story, but thatis just horrendous.
I did read that she,
Erin (32:43):
well, part of the things too is she promised I think it
was$300,000 to differentcharities that she would, you
know, probably even more thatshe never did anything for.
So she probably was scamming abunch of people.
tanya (32:57):
yeah, like raising like GoFundMe and then not giving
them the money when they'redonating for that purpose.
Erin (33:02):
which makes you really question how many times, like
when you see all these GoFundMe,but these GoFundMe that people
have, like how many are peopleactually using for what they say
they are?
And how much are people justusing the money and then buying
themselves a new car even thoughthey say they're helping someone
else?
There's really no way.
hopefully people are actuallyusing it.
(33:23):
But you don't know, I mean,you're just putting your trust
in these people.
tanya (33:26):
Well, she really doesn't give a good name to it.
for sure.
I think people are very, youknow, she definitely lost a lot
of people's trust and kind ofcaused them to look over things
a few times.
Yeah.
Before trusting anything if, ifat all again.
But it definitely tells us thatwe should really look into who
these people are, theseinfluencers.
you really don't know.
(33:48):
there's lots of people who cansay things and you may not ever
know if it's true and they maybe touting these things that
this'll work for you.
It really is just worth it to doyour research.
and it's understandable if youwanna go a holistic route, if
you want to do functionaltreatment.
But, it just, it really carefulWith your sources there.
(34:09):
It's not just because it looksgood on social media does not
mean it.
Even if the person hascredentials,
Erin (34:15):
still look and see what it is.
Because like we were saying,like, you know, I keep, my
algorithm is like.
Probably all charlatans rightnow, but like, I feel like I'm
getting touted, like everythinglately, like, oh, join this
course, do this.
You wanna be younger, you wannabe richer, you wanna be this,
you want, you know, like I keepgetting all this stuff and it's
(34:36):
like, oh my gosh, how do I stopthis?
but yeah, just be careful oflike who you're looking at or
who you're following, you know?
Or just, be aware that some ofthese people, they have
alternative motives.
For sure.
tanya (34:47):
Yeah.
And that is the story of BillGibson and her horrendous.
complete and utter lack ofregard for anyone but herself.
Yeah.
even including her son.
Which I do believe she reallycares for and loves him, but in
the way that only she can, whichhas limitations to what it seems
like.
So, anything else we wanna popin there that we didn't cover?
(35:08):
No, I think we
Erin (35:08):
I'm curious what your question is gonna be this week.
Uh, you're like, oh no, I haveto think of what thought about
this.
tanya (35:14):
No, I did think of when we were talking and I'm like,
this is probably a pretty toughquestion, but.
Okay.
So if you had to for say, 30days, just for like a health
routine, not because you'retrying to cure anything, but you
had to choose between gettingcoffee enemas five times a day
or drinking up to 14 glasses ofto a fruit juice.
(35:38):
What would you choose?
Erin (35:39):
say neither?
tanya (35:40):
No, because even though, because the
Erin (35:40):
juices looked so gross, they weren't like, just like, it
was like, you know, like, here'syour beet juice, here's this.
But, I guess I would do thejuice and I don't know, I don't
think I'd be able to do 14 ofthem.
I think I'd probably max out atthree and then just be like, oh
gosh, I mean 14.
tanya (35:58):
of sugar.
I know it's natural sugar, butit's still a lot of sugar.
Erin (36:01):
it's just like,'cause even that, like your stomach would
cramp up it just because I'vedone like the juicing before,
I'm like, I'm gonna, I have buya, you know, like years ago I'm
like, I bought a juicer.
I'm gonna do a juice.
I couldn't even drink one glassof like fresh done juice with
like beet and celery and apple.
Like, I've done all that.
I'm like, okay, it's gonna begreat.
It's like.
It's so gross.
(36:22):
Like when you make it yourself.
tanya (36:23):
Yeah.
I think that would be horrible.
So maybe we would say like fivetimes a day or something.
Then I still think that's prettybad, but I would go with the
juice as well.
I think coffee enemas, you haveto be careful about in general.
And colon cancers are on therise of people under like in
between 30 and 40 in the UnitedStates.
That's why they lowered thecolon ch to 45.
(36:45):
and I don't think that that issomething necessarily regulated
nor healthy and could be verydamaging.
Yeah.
but the juices, yeah, I thinkare, I think it's not great if
for sugar, you know, orwhatever, but.
I think that would probably bemore palatable.
So I'd go for that too.
hopefully we'd never have to bein that situation.
(37:05):
This is just a random Whereyou're forced it's question.
I'll give
Erin (37:07):
you a few thousand dollars if you do this.
yeah.
'cause I remember when I did tryto do, I wasn't on like a juice
cleanse.
I'd just like, I bought thisbook, it's called like the Juice
in Bible, and I bought this nicejuicer, not the ninja one, but
just like a, you know, nicer,nice juicer and there's such a
pain in the neck to clean.
And it was just like, even ifyou really clean your fruit or
vegetable before, it stilltastes like dirt.
(37:29):
It's still like, you know it'snot.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
'cause I would always be like,yeah, because I'm experience are
supposed to be good and do thisand Yeah.
And then you get like this, youget like, just like, you don't
get a full glass.
It's a lot of juicing for alittle bit of effort and then
you're just kind of, it istrying to stomach it down.
Yeah.
No, thank you.
I'd rather like a smoothie.
tanya (37:49):
Yeah.
I think that's acceptable inthis imaginary situation.
Okay.
Also, someone else can make itfirst.
Yeah.
Maybe I'll just change mine intoan
Erin (37:54):
ice cream shake.
tanya (37:55):
Or maybe, maybe we'll just not do it.
Yeah, yeah.
Overall I'll just have a coffeeor just drink some water.
Erin (38:00):
Yeah, drink a coffee.
and then I'll just eat somefruit for my juice.
Yeah.
That's what I'll do.
tanya (38:05):
Yes.
that sounds a lot healthier.
See balance people, that's whatwe're talking about.
these are just not.
Balanced routines.
I'm not saying, you know, if youhave your own thing, I don't
know everybody's situation, butnot in these instances.
they weren't.
we hope you enjoyed that.
Let us know what you think, ifyou have anything to add, follow
us on socials.
We're on everything, includingYouTube.
(38:26):
We are there now.
send us a review, five starreview.
Really helps.
send it to your friends.
Erin (38:31):
We would love to.
Yes.
Get to a thousand downloads aday or more.
Absolutely.
And don't forget, stay wickedand keep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
We'll talk to you soon.
Bye-Bye.
Bye.
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