October 1, 2025 • 34 mins
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In this re-release of a powerful episode, Erin is interviewed by Tanya about her journey with breast cancer.
Erin shares how the diagnosis and treatment affected her emotionally, how it shaped her perspective as a psychotherapist, and some of the personal experiences she encountered along the way.
This episode shares personal experiences and is not a substitute for professional or mental health advice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Erin Gray with WickedPsychotherapist.
(00:02):
Today is the first day ofOctober and I thought it would
be a great day to do are-release of the episode we did
talking about breast cancer.
As some of our viewers mightknow, I had breast cancer
diagnosed in 18, and I have theBRCA gene, so I talk about that
(00:23):
a little bit in the episode.
And yeah, I hope you enjoy it.
And let us know if you have anyquestions, and next week I think
we're gonna be going back tosome Halloween stuff.
We have of course some AdamSandler things, and we hope you
enjoy a few episodes.
We plan for the month of Octoberand enjoy this episode.
(00:55):
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
(01:18):
Hi everyone, this is Tanya.
Hi, this is Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapists.
So today we normally, we love totalk about spooky stuff,
especially with October fastapproaching.
But today we are going to talkabout something really
(01:41):
important, really interesting.
If you are a.
Consistent viewer.
You may have heard that Erin,she's told her story about being
a breast cancer survivor andwith October being breast cancer
awareness month, we thought thatwe would talk a little bit about
her journey, her experience inthis as a breast cancer survivor
(02:03):
and as a therapist.
And just ask some questions,give some some feedback towards
that.
'cause it is a very importanttopic that we think.
If we could get out there.
So should we jump in?
Should I start to, let's, let'sask some questions that we
thought maybe might beimportant.
That sounds good.
All right, great.
First off, I think it's reallyimportant that, and really great
(02:25):
that you're being open andhonest about this.
This is a very tough subject,but I know that it's also really
important to get your story outthere, so really appreciate this
and I'm sure a lot of peoplelistening will appreciate this
as well.
The first thing that that I waswondering was how did you find
out that you had breast cancer?
Can you tell us a little bitabout that process?
That journey, and any kind ofthoughts, feelings.
(02:48):
Reactions at that time and justtell us about that a little bit.
So first of all, thanks fordoing this.
I know we're co-host, but thanksfor taking the lead today on
this.
Um, yeah, sure.
So, of course.
Yeah.
So my discovery is probably alittle different than a lot of
people.
It wasn't from self-exam or, orthe annual mammogram or anything
(03:11):
like that.
I found out probably about ayear before I was diagnosed that
I had a gene mutation that'sfound usually on the paternal
side.
So the, there's BRCA one, whichis maternal BRCA two, which is
paternal, and I had just gone toa new gynecologist.
(03:33):
And you do the history, fill outthe form.
They ask you family history ofdifferent cancers or heart
disease.
Yeah.
Or whatever they ask, so,mm-hmm.
This one had, it wasn't justthe, tell me about your parents
and this, it was, tell me aboutyour uncles and grandparents.
So I filled it out and she cameback and she said, you have a
(03:55):
lot of very unique cancers onyour list.
And I was like, what is shetalking about?
I had family members that haddifferent types of cancer.
My dad's father had pancreaticcancer.
My uncle had melanoma, sothere's just different types.
And she then had me meet with ageneticist, and then I had to do
(04:16):
genetic testing.
It's weird.
It's almost like a jobinterview, so I was in a
boardroom.
Sounds like it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So I, so it was just me and thisrandom stranger that I, that I
never met, just.
Really in depth interviewing mebefore they do the testing.
And that's because the test, ifit's not approved is$4,000 or
(04:37):
something, like reallyexpensive.
Oh, the genetic testing toRight.
To see if you have the brca, thegeneticist called me back or
genetic counselor, whatever.
They're called me back aboutsix, six weeks later I think,
and told me I was positive forthat.
B rca, A two gene, and explain.
Oh, it means that you have thishigher percentage of getting
(05:00):
breast cancer or ovarian orpancreatic or melanoma.
So there's different types ofcancer that the general
population might have.
Very low.
But if you have the genemutation, it's higher.
And then I was scheduled tostart seeing a breast doctor and
my gynecologist, every threemonths, I would see one of'em.
(05:21):
So I'd see the breast doctor onemonth, the gynecologist,
another, so every three months.
And that was part of themonitoring.
So I was told it's a lot, andthat was because I said I didn't
wanna have the surgery.
So right when I got diagnosedwith the gene mutation, you have
the choice.
You can, you could choose tohave your ovaries removed or you
could choose to have ahysterectomy, or you could
(05:43):
choose to have a.
Mastectomy as a preventativemetric.
And I felt because looking atthe data that for the BRCA two,
it looked like usually peopledon't get breast cancer with
that until they're much olderthan I was like in sixties.
It appeared like it.
(06:04):
They would be older.
Than I was.
Yeah.
So I said, oh yeah.
So you had to do a lot ofresearch around that too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I felt like I had gears, um,you know, to figure it out and
to do the testing, you know, andmy breast doctor, she's great,
but said, there's gonna come atime, a lot of people.
Usually after a couple years,start getting, feeling the
(06:24):
stress of testing is too muchand they just opt to have the
surgeries.
And I'm like, yeah, that's notgonna be me.
So I ended up doing the, themammogram and then a few months
later I had to do the MRI.
And then when I had the MRI,they ended up pulling me aside.
The radiologist pulled me asideinto a room to view, and I was
(06:48):
thinking like, that's weird.
They don't usually readeverything to you while you're
there.
Then she started talking to me.
She started.
Telling me, she's like, I'm notsaying it cancer, but I really
want you to come back for abiopsy.
So I was thinking, all right, Iprobably have it.
That was how I pretty much foundout, and it was because I was
(07:10):
being monitored and, and itwasn't shown up on the mammogram
just a few months before.
I only had the mammogram maybethree or four months before I
had the MRI.
Oh wow.
And yeah, so it, sorry.
No, I, no, it sounds like therewas your, the attentiveness of
your doctor and then also yourown research on this really
(07:31):
helped to say, okay, hey, wait,there's something here.
We gotta keep an eye on that.
And that really was really agood thing, which I think is
really necessitated and with ourmedical care.
Yeah.
But I'm, I'm so glad that youboth were, had your eyes on it.
Yeah, and, and that's one thingI always, my clients are
probably always, ah, she'ssaying it again, but I always
tell them like, you have to beyour own medical advocate.
(07:54):
Because so often no one is gonnado it for us.
We have to, you know, whetheryou're like, ah, I don't really
like that.
My doctor's dictating his notesin my room with me.
I've had one of those, or I'vehad like, just, you have to feel
that you can have a team,whatever your team is, whether
your team is just, you'rehealthy and it's your, your
(08:15):
dentist and your regular doctor,but you wanna have people that
you feel comfortable with.
And I feel that with mygynecologist, my primary, at the
time, he was great, but mybreast doctor, I felt like
together with them, I feltreally safe and then I felt like
I would be in the right handswhen they helped me navigate the
(08:35):
next stage, which was surgeryand finding a cancer doctor, an
oncologist.
So it was, and just to clarify,just because I am just, I just
need clarification, right?
'cause I'm me.
But so was it, and I reallypardon my ignorance on this, but
was it like an officialdiagnosis or was it like a more
than likely kind of thing?
(08:56):
Is that typically the way it.
It goes.
It was not an official diagnosisuntil I came back to the place
where I had the MRI and they dida needle biopsy.
They did an ultrasound, soundguided biopsy, and then they
biopsy the spot that theythought was suspicious or
whatever they saw.
(09:18):
Then they sent it to the breastdoctor that I had already had a
relationship with for about ayear, and then she read it and
was able to call me into heroffice, and she met my husband
and myself, and she did.
I always laughed.
I've, I've known her for so longnow, but I always laugh and tell
her she has the worst poker facebecause she's, she, I love her,
(09:38):
but she's really, it be good orbad.
It can be good or bad becausewhen I went into the, when I
went into her office that dayfor the appointment.
For her to give me the results.
She had tears in her eyes andshe looked really sad and she
then she waited to tell me,'cause she had tears in her eyes
when she saw me go into theroom.
And then when I.
(09:59):
When it, when she told me, shegave me a hug and everything.
I said, I knew I had it as soonas I walked in your office
because you're, you had tears inyour eyes, but she's just really
empathetic and reallycompassionate and I feel like I
had just then too, I told myhusband, I'm like, I couldn't be
in better hands than with her.
I'm so glad you had that.
(10:20):
That and the way you describedyour team, you felt very safe
with them.
Mm-hmm.
That's really key, and I'm gladthat you had that.
I know that unfortunately, noteverybody has that, but I think
what you're saying, no matterwhat, this experience is not
easy, and having that on hand,definitely.
I think at least makes it morenavigable.
Right.
You know, and feel like you'resupported.
Which, which kind of leads me tomy next question, which I'm
(10:42):
wondering in terms of when youfound this out and the reactions
that you felt, did you feel likeyou had good support?
It sounds like your medical teamwas amazing, but what other
types of support did you haveand do you feel like is needed?
Yeah.
At this time when I, you know,when I found out I was diagnosed
and throughout everything, myhusband and kids were just
(11:04):
beyond helpful.
The kids were really young atthat time.
They helped what they could,they try to pick up, try to, uh,
my daughter got on kitty litterduty because she's, you can't
get on it when you're on chemoand you can't do, but.
Sweet.
Yeah.
My husband, he became the cookand he still has, and he's now
like a chef.
He's gotten so good at cooking.
(11:25):
Wow.
And I think he's found out thatthis is his hobby and passion.
He's just really good at it.
I feel like I really had a lotof support.
My aunt came to.
Stay with me for a week and mycousin stayed with me for a week
and then my cousin came back acouple times.
It's been, it was really nice tohave that and to have that
(11:45):
support from people.
I'm not usually one that willask for help and I actually even
said it.
Yeah, I'll be fine.
I'll be fine.
But I know it was reallyhelpful, especially when my
cousin came because she wouldhelp cook, she would help drive,
you know, also drive the kids toschool.
And it was just really, it wasreally nice and it, you know,
and I know I've shared that mysister passed away and my sister
(12:08):
passed away before I wasdiagnosed.
So having, especially having mycousin visit, um.
Felt very safe and very muchlike a, a sister visiting and
yeah.
But yeah, I, I feel like I didhave a lot of support.
I felt like my husband was themost, what you picture, someone
just su such unconditional loveand just really supportive and,
(12:29):
and whatever you could think ofsomeone being there, he was
there and the kids, again, theywere so little and they were so.
Supportive.
And I know it was so scary forthem and I tried to explain it
to them.
And I, my doctors, my breastdoctor and my oncologist were so
sweet because they knew the kidswere so little that they let
(12:49):
them come to the appointmentsthat they could come.
Of course, they couldn't come tomy chemo appointments, but they.
My breast doctor let them cometo every appointment.
You know, they'd have to turnaround during certain parts, but
they were allowed to come sothat they weren't afraid of
doctors and they weren't afraidof the whole experience.
Oh, that's nice.
And my oncologist let them come,you know, when they're, when it
(13:11):
was just an office visit so theycould see him and meet him, and
they know who's taking care ofmommy and it wasn't scary for
them.
Have a safe connection.
Yeah.
With it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
And I know you had to have,unfortunately, a lot of
surgeries, a lot of medicalintervention from this, but
could you talk a little bitabout how this affected you
(13:35):
personally at home and maybeprofessionally as a a therapist,
when having to be able to taketime off or talk to your clients
about it, other family members?
How was that for you?
Yeah, it wa I did have to have afew surgeries, I think,
including the port coming in andout.
The um, portacath, I think I hadsix surgeries altogether within
(13:57):
a six or eight month period.
I had my mastectomy, doublemastectomy, then chemo later,
then reconstruction.
And I had a hysterectomy too,just as a preventative because
of the gene mutation.
But I ended up taking a monthoff for each of my surgeries
and.
That was really importantbecause I didn't want to, I
(14:17):
didn't wanna work while I wasdrugged, but I also That's fair.
Yeah.
But I also wasn't sure how longit would take to heal and I
didn't wanna rush it.
It was difficult at firstbecause I was a practicing
therapist.
I had a private practice.
I tend to see my clients for along period of time.
Sometimes some I do see short,but some, it's a while.
(14:39):
I've built relationship with alot of'em and telling my
clients.
Was difficult.
I waited till the end of sessionwhen we're scheduling our next
appointment, and then I toldthem, I just found out I have
this diagnosis.
I'm having surgery this date.
I'll be out this long.
This is who will be covering forme.
So it was very, that I found wasvery difficult and there was
(15:00):
like hugs and tears and I had torefocus.
Don't worry about me, like, youknow, I'll be back.
Even when you're going throughthis super tough, all these
medical interventions in thistime in your life, you have to
say, don't worry about me.
Yeah.
But of course people are goingto, because you built up a
relationship and then I did.
After that, I think four monthsafter my surgery, I started
(15:21):
chemotherapy.
So I had already back in theoffice, and so I was seeing my
clients and I had to tell'emagain.
I'll be starting chemotherapyand I'll be on chemo for a few
months and I'll be out.
I'll probably be out the weeksthat I'm getting chemo.
I wanted to have an openconversation with them because
again, I don't want them towonder why is she looking so
(15:42):
pale?
Why is she, but I also wanted tolet them know I'm not gonna be
going when I'm sick.
It did affect me really bad, butI was able to, I scheduled it,
so I do chemotherapy onThursdays and then go back to
work.
Usually that Wednesday, soThursday, Friday, Saturday,
Sunday, Monday usually of mostweek of those weeks.
(16:04):
Some weeks it would take me.
So you'd work like Monday toWednesday kind of thing?
Yeah, or I'd have that, yeah,I'd have a Wednesday i'd or
sometimes I'd work just thatThursday and Friday of the week
that I had chemo and.
Yeah.
So it was, yeah, that was hard.
And it was funny'cause myoncologist used to always say
that, I forget what he said, butbasically that he felt like the
(16:24):
reason why I was doing so, notdoing so well, but I was able to
keep going was just because Ikept working, it didn't stop.
Mm-hmm.
And I told him I needed to keepworking, even if I'm only seeing
one client a week.
Just because it gave me purposeand it made me, it forced me to
get out of my bed and forced meto do something, and it also
(16:45):
helped me put the focus outsideof myself so that I wasn't just
stuck in my head worrying abouthow am I gonna feel after this
next chemo?
What about the next surgerycoming up in six months?
What about the next things thatmay or may not happen and it
grounded you a little bit?
(17:06):
Yeah, it did, and I feel I havemixed feelings about that.
Sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish Iwould've taken that whole year
off.
But I also, that's not who I,that I don't think that's who I
am.
I think I, I get very nervousenergy and I think I would've
just been a bundle of anxiety ifI would've just,'cause what
would I have been doing justwatching reruns of Grey's
(17:27):
Anatomy and then it's not, Idon't think I would've been,
been helpful.
You're, you're a, you're a, Ithink a healer by nature.
You need to be at least in themix of it and being feeling.
Kind of productive.
And that's not to say thateverybody has to do, that's just
to say that's how it felt rightfor you.
And it sounds like it reallyworked.
Yeah.
I mean, I did get reprimandedsometimes from my doctors
telling me that I need to slowdown.
(17:49):
And actually my oncologist didtell me, you need to find
somebody who's well-versed incancer and well-versed in PTSD
because he's like you people whohave gone through the trauma of
the physical trauma.
Of the surgeries and the traumaof the chemotherapy and the
(18:10):
trauma of losing all your hairand the trauma of losing your
strength and,'cause there's somany different components to it
that you don't think of whenyou're in it.
And I'm like, I, I don't havePTSD here.
Dumb.
But then I started, startedWell, like a true therapist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would tell'em like, Idon't have PTSDs really.
(18:30):
Because when you talk aboutstuff, he's like, you're very
detached.
Because I would, I'd be like,Hey, what's really weird?
I could look at my scars and I'dfeel fine.
Everything's fine.
I said, I'm okay.
And he's really, he's, wow, youhave really high eq.
You're really high emotionalintelligence.
Then he's or you are not reallyletting yourself really feel.
Everything.
(18:50):
Maybe it's a little bit of both.
Yeah, it's probably both.
Yeah.
Maybe there's that, but there'salso some other parts.
But it sounds like your doctorpicked up on that.
Wow.
Your, your doctor was really,your team was really in tune
with you.
Yeah.
And checking in and they still,and they, they still are.
My team, like my, I see themevery few months.
Um.
The oncologist and breastdoctor, and they get me, they
get my humor.
(19:10):
They're both so smart and sofunny, and I am so grateful that
I have them, but he was right.
He was 100% right about the,that I was experiencing like a
form of PTSD.
Hmm.
Or maybe even PTSD.
So it took me a while to figurethat out and to find the right
therapist.
I think I bounced around alittle bit to try to find
(19:32):
someone who wasn't gonna belike, oh, like really making me
feel sicker down in the dump.
Yeah.
And so that helped me processhow I was feeling and what hap
the changes physically.
Yeah.
I am the new, the, not only justthe physical, which the
physical.
Transformations and acceptingthat, but also how you feel
about your own identity and withthe process of going through
(19:54):
chemo.
I know you had talked about thechoice to to wear a wig or not,
right?
Because you were still seeingclients sometimes and there's a
little bit of a kind ofwondering if you should or if
you shouldn't, and I wanted toask you about that.
How did you manage that?
How was that for you?
So I, as I said, I was stillseeing clients and also there
was a, there's a couplecomponents, so I was still
(20:15):
seeing clients and in my head, Iguess this was in my must heel,
everything needs to be right.
I felt that it would be lessjarring and upsetting.
Which I'm looking back, I'mlaughing'cause I've seen myself
with the stupid wig.
I'm sorry.
Some people look great in wigs.
I felt like, just like, I don'tknow how to do makeup.
(20:35):
I did not know how to put mystupid wig on.
So I'm like, why didn't I juststraighten it out a little bit?
But I, I, I saw pictures of youat that point and I saw, and I
honestly, I thought it lookedgreat.
Really.
But I know that how you feltabout it.
Maybe different, right?
Yeah.
Maybe I'll post some pictures onInstagram when we have this.
(20:55):
Yeah.
But, but yeah, I felt like Ineeded to, so I even went to one
of my, one of my, one of my verygood friends came down to
Florida.
I guess that's another person.
She came to Florida after myvery first chemo was done and
met me.
And we ended up going to, thisplace is, that's like a drag
drag place where they sell wigs.
(21:18):
Because of course that's what Iwould do.
That matches that.
That tracks.
Yeah, because why not?
Why go to the cancer place thatsells wigs?
Why not goes to the place wherea drag queen is?
That's so fun.
It was so I ended up having himhelp me with the wig and my girl
girlfriend was there and it wasfun and I picked one, but then I
was like, looking back, I wish Iwould've gone for one of the
(21:40):
ones that were completelyopposite of what I am.
But I was also thinking the kidswere really little.
I wanted to be able to wear itto school functions.
Again, some people look great,but they're so hot.
Especially if you're goingthrough chemo, you're already
hot.
Then that's why like thoselittle caps are really nice
'cause they absorb the sweat.
Like it's, it's very Oh really?
Yeah.
So that's something I, Iwouldn't even know that that's,
(22:02):
yeah.
'cause your scalp gets cold, butalso gets really sweaty when
you're going through chemo.
It's just so much discomfort.
And again, looking at picturesof myself, I'm thinking my skin
was so pale.
I don't know if I had eyebrows,but I had a stereotypical
steroid little moon face.
You knew I had chemo, you knew Ihad cancer.
Probably just looking at me,whether I had a wig on or not.
(22:25):
Personally, I saw picturesduring this, and this is just my
personal opinion.
I would, I don't, I thinkthere's obviously probably a
high self-consciousness.
You've just gone through thistrauma.
You're having to takemedication.
It's changing your body, it'staking away your hair and things
like that, and having to adjustto all those things.
It probably.
Brings a high level of likepersonal oof self-consciousness,
(22:48):
but I do not, I do not thinkyou, you looked, I think you
maybe felt that way,understandably, because you're
going through a lot right.
In that transformation.
But I thought you looked good.
Like really, it really was notsomething from the outside view
like you, that you could say, ohyeah, for sure.
She's, you know.
Oh, but I, but I do understandthat feeling.
Like I, I understand you'reprobably felt that way with all
(23:10):
this.
Yeah, this going.
But yeah.
So it sounds, it sounds likethere was this feeling of, I
don't this thought put into yourhead and maybe you, I think like
you said, you didn't want it tobe jarring for your clients.
And of course, us as therapists,we're always looking at how do I
make my, my client feel, how doI set them up to be comfortable?
So that's totally understandablethat you would think that, but
it's, it's a very uniqueperspective when you are
(23:31):
diagnosed with a disease like.
Right.
Breast cancer and determining ifyou want to wear a wig or not,
and if it's for yourself or foryour clients or for just in
general.
You just feel more comfortablethat way.
Yeah.
But you had to decide that onyour own journey.
And then you also had somepeople that maybe weren't so
helpful in that, like maybe theythought they were being, but
maybe it was.
Yeah.
Maybe not the best.
(23:51):
Yeah, I at that point.
It always make me laugh.
Like if I was somewhere, ifeither it was a new client or a
parent or something and maybethey didn't know I like a parent
of my kid's school or something.
'cause some I wasn't, didn'tknow everybody.
It would be like, oh, youreally, you're here today.
I would just laugh to myself.
Well, thanks.
It's not gonna move.
It's not moving.
(24:18):
And that's, that's so funnybecause it really, it, I mean,
it, it was probably genuine.
It was like, oh, it looksdifferent and this, and some
people may not have even, theyjust may have thought, oh, she's
doing something different withher hair.
You know, like it really, andmaybe, you know, you know, it,
it just wasn't as, as noticeableas maybe it felt, because you
are going through all those,right.
Those.
(24:38):
Changes and everything and allthat.
Just everything that you had togo through at that time.
Right.
And in terms of, I know youtalked about professionally with
having to take some time off,letting your clients know, and
obviously that's something thattherapists or professionals,
they have to decide forthemselves, but it sounds like
that was something that was agood decision for you because
(24:59):
it, it let them know and beaware so that they may be, you
didn't want them to, to worry itsounds when you were.
Of course putting, you wereputting them first, which I know
is obviously what we always doas therapists.
Yeah.
But how was that for youpersonally?
Was that tough to balance athome and to have that
perspective or, I know youtalked about that that was
something that helped you tofocus outside of some of the
(25:22):
process, but how is it justwith.
Like family life and things likethat.
Yeah.
It was hard.
Like I said, my husband, heshowed up probably more ways
than most husbands or partnerscould or would he just, he had
to, he continued working.
He took a lot of time off.
He was here.
He became the cook and theshopper and the driving the kids
(25:43):
to school when I wasn't able to.
It's just he was very present,you know, doing the little
projects with them and because alot of times with well after the
surgeries Oh, and he also was.
He is, you know, he was stuckdoing all the gross stuff too,
like after surgery, all of thatbandages and all that and
changing and, and helping youout.
Yeah.
So he really showed up and I wasvery grateful that I had him and
(26:08):
the kids and family that cameand helped and friends, and it
was very, again, I'm not someonethat would ask for help, so that
was very hard.
Not being able to get up andhave dinner some days, or not
being able to drive the kids toschool or not even.
Having the energy to pet Paigeor during that time my cats were
all around my bed because theyprobably, animals are very
(26:30):
instinct.
They know.
Yeah.
But Paige doesn't jump on beds'cause she is a baby.
She's not able to, she's a goodgirl.
Yeah, she, yeah.
She's never been a furnituredog.
But yeah, so it was really, itwas hard at that time to.
Stay still.
And that's also my oncologistused to always get annoyed at
me.
'cause sometimes I'd be like, Ihave to go do something.
So I'd be, go in my garden andthen I'd have chemotherapy and
(26:52):
I'd have like a thousand ampbytes on my legs.
And he's really, what is wrongwith you?
And I'm like, I would get, I'dget reprimanded.
He is like, you realize yourwhite blood cell account is like
nothing.
And you're, so, I had to, I'mlike, all right, he's, you have
to wear boots, you have to weargloves, you have to, you know,
got some scoldings.
Yes.
(27:12):
Or don't do it.
He'd be like, or just stayinside.
Be normal.
Why can't you just, well, Ithink that's a big part of it,
is that your personality is verymuch, you always, you like to be
doing something.
Mm-hmm.
You like to be, you're not aperson who can just sit around
and do nothing.
And that's a tough part toaccept that, okay, I just need
to sit and relax and also cutdown my hours with my job, my
(27:33):
purpose.
Right.
So it was, it sounds like it wasa struggle.
It was really hard.
Yeah.
That part.
You're trying your best.
And it's funny'cause I bought, Ihow when you're sick or you have
cancer, people are always like,here's a journal, here's some
books, here's some magazines,here's this.
I'm like, oh, that's great.
I'll just read and I'll do this.
I'll catch up on shows.
It's really hard to focus whenyou're on medication or you're
on, so I'm like, all right, I'lljust stare or not watch anything
(27:58):
or try not to get annoyed atlooking at the same page of
whatever I'm doing.
So I didn't do any of the.
Things that we always tellclients, okay, do this and it'll
make your mind feel better or,yeah.
Yeah.
So for me it's cuttering anddoing things and fog and, right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
It can affect you, which isanother struggle just to relax
(28:19):
and to even be present, how themedication rattles you in that
way.
Yeah.
You know, it does, and youstill, to this day, you still
have you, you have ongoingappointments for.
For life, right.
For monitoring and yeah.
Other types of cancers tomonitor for that encompass
possibility, those uniquecancers and everything too,
(28:39):
right?
Yeah.
Yeah, because I, I am past thefive year mark, so woo hoo.
I had was triple negative breastcancer.
And I'm five years past, so I amconsidered no evidence of
disease, but because I have thatgene mutation, the B rca, A two,
I'm monitored, I'll bemonitored.
My oncologist and the breastdoctor said that I'll be seeing
(29:01):
them like every six monthsforever.
Plus, I see a GI doctor.
For screening once a year,because other abdominal cancers
can be part of that, which isone of the things with it.
But I'm really glad, I alwaystell my gynecologist that I'm
really grateful that she askedthose questions or that she
actually read my answers.
(29:21):
Because so often doctors willask the questions, so look at it
and they'll be like, okay, oh,let me just see you and not even
go over any of que these answersthat you filled out on the
sheet.
She actually paused and lookedat them and said, Hey, wait a
minute.
These are really weird answers.
(29:41):
Let's review this and let's godeeper.
And so I always told her, I'mlike, you literally saved my
life because the type of cancerI had is very aggressive.
Mm-hmm.
And like triple negative is veryaggressive.
Like it's a fast grower.
And so I was told like theywouldn't have found it.
I would've just been doing theonce a year mon monitoring by
(30:03):
mammogram and it probablywouldn't have been found because
it wasn't found just a fewmonths before when I had a
mammogram and it was only foundon the MRI.
Yeah.
So that vigilance, that, thatkind of attention to those
answers, which is what you arehoping is being looked at, but
sometimes you're right, it doesget overlooked.
It sounds like that was reallylike, wait a minute, let's
actually look at this.
Mm-hmm.
(30:23):
Which is the purpose of askingthose questions, but yeah, it
is, it's really great that, inthat you're past five years.
I don't know if they say cancerfree or in terms of, yeah.
Is there a technical term forthat?
Yeah.
Well, they say it's like NED, noevidence of disease.
Yeah.
But we are all very glad that,of course.
You're, you had a, a great team.
You did the research on yourown.
(30:44):
You had that vigilance as well,and knowing those cancers that
were present in your familyright.
And educating yourself on that,as hard as that was.
Before we go, do you have anyadvice or, or words of wisdom to
people that maybe are startingwithin this journey or have gone
through it already?
(31:04):
Yeah.
With people who are not sureabout their medical history or
they know like they're.
Mother they're on.
If they might be on the mother'sside, maybe ask, talk to your
doc doctors about that or getyour full family history and
maybe explain to your doctorsand ask if you're a candidate
for the genetic testing to beginwith, if that's a possibility.
(31:25):
If you are diagnosed, it's okayto ask for help.
It's okay to accept the help.
That's something.
I took me a a little bit torealize and then I realized, oh,
wait a minute.
They're asking because theywanna help.
They're asking because theywanna be there for me.
I'm not a burden.
So that's something to remindyourself, that when people are
(31:49):
there for you or they're showingup, they're not being forced to.
They wanna be there for you andthey wanna help you because they
care.
Yeah, absolutely.
And words of wisdom we're, we'reso glad that, um, you know, you
are, um, past the point of theNED, um, for, or we can say five
years.
(32:09):
Yeah.
More than five years past that,right?
Because I was diagnosed in 2018,so it's been a little bit.
Yeah, so we're really, Iappreciate, and I'm sure the
listeners really appreciate yousharing this experience.
I know this is very personal,but I think there's a lot of
wisdom in there, a lot ofunderstanding and tell people,
no, they're not alone in this.
And I think it's very much animportant topic that that needs
(32:33):
to be talked about, especiallyfor breast Cancer Awareness
Month, but just in general.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
For doing that.
That's great.
And thank you Tanya forinterviewing me.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, we, we will.
This was a special bonusepisode.
We will have another episode thefollowing week.
So you get three in October.
(32:53):
Yeah.
And this is great one.
We also want to remind you tofollow us on Instagram at Wicked
Psychotherapists.
Subscribe and write us a review.
It really helps us out.
If you can, it does write thatreview would really appreciate
it.
In closing, we will say, anddon't forget to stay wicked and
(33:15):
keep your mind well.
Yes.
All right.
Take care guys.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
Oh, okay.
Bye.
Bye guys.
Look at.
This is Erin Gray with WickedPsychotherapist.
(00:02):
Today is the first day ofOctober and I thought it would
be a great day to do are-release of the episode we did
talking about breast cancer.
As some of our viewers mightknow, I had breast cancer
diagnosed in 18, and I have theBRCA gene, so I talk about that
(00:23):
a little bit in the episode.
And yeah, I hope you enjoy it.
And let us know if you have anyquestions, and next week I think
we're gonna be going back tosome Halloween stuff.
We have of course some AdamSandler things, and we hope you
enjoy a few episodes.
We plan for the month of Octoberand enjoy this episode.
(00:55):
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
(01:18):
Hi everyone, this is Tanya.
Hi, this is Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapists.
So today we normally, we love totalk about spooky stuff,
especially with October fastapproaching.
But today we are going to talkabout something really
(01:41):
important, really interesting.
If you are a.
Consistent viewer.
You may have heard that Erin,she's told her story about being
a breast cancer survivor andwith October being breast cancer
awareness month, we thought thatwe would talk a little bit about
her journey, her experience inthis as a breast cancer survivor
(02:03):
and as a therapist.
And just ask some questions,give some some feedback towards
that.
'cause it is a very importanttopic that we think.
If we could get out there.
So should we jump in?
Should I start to, let's, let'sask some questions that we
thought maybe might beimportant.
That sounds good.
All right, great.
First off, I think it's reallyimportant that, and really great
(02:25):
that you're being open andhonest about this.
This is a very tough subject,but I know that it's also really
important to get your story outthere, so really appreciate this
and I'm sure a lot of peoplelistening will appreciate this
as well.
The first thing that that I waswondering was how did you find
out that you had breast cancer?
Can you tell us a little bitabout that process?
That journey, and any kind ofthoughts, feelings.
(02:48):
Reactions at that time and justtell us about that a little bit.
So first of all, thanks fordoing this.
I know we're co-host, but thanksfor taking the lead today on
this.
Um, yeah, sure.
So, of course.
Yeah.
So my discovery is probably alittle different than a lot of
people.
It wasn't from self-exam or, orthe annual mammogram or anything
(03:11):
like that.
I found out probably about ayear before I was diagnosed that
I had a gene mutation that'sfound usually on the paternal
side.
So the, there's BRCA one, whichis maternal BRCA two, which is
paternal, and I had just gone toa new gynecologist.
(03:33):
And you do the history, fill outthe form.
They ask you family history ofdifferent cancers or heart
disease.
Yeah.
Or whatever they ask, so,mm-hmm.
This one had, it wasn't justthe, tell me about your parents
and this, it was, tell me aboutyour uncles and grandparents.
So I filled it out and she cameback and she said, you have a
(03:55):
lot of very unique cancers onyour list.
And I was like, what is shetalking about?
I had family members that haddifferent types of cancer.
My dad's father had pancreaticcancer.
My uncle had melanoma, sothere's just different types.
And she then had me meet with ageneticist, and then I had to do
(04:16):
genetic testing.
It's weird.
It's almost like a jobinterview, so I was in a
boardroom.
Sounds like it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So I, so it was just me and thisrandom stranger that I, that I
never met, just.
Really in depth interviewing mebefore they do the testing.
And that's because the test, ifit's not approved is$4,000 or
(04:37):
something, like reallyexpensive.
Oh, the genetic testing toRight.
To see if you have the brca, thegeneticist called me back or
genetic counselor, whatever.
They're called me back aboutsix, six weeks later I think,
and told me I was positive forthat.
B rca, A two gene, and explain.
Oh, it means that you have thishigher percentage of getting
(05:00):
breast cancer or ovarian orpancreatic or melanoma.
So there's different types ofcancer that the general
population might have.
Very low.
But if you have the genemutation, it's higher.
And then I was scheduled tostart seeing a breast doctor and
my gynecologist, every threemonths, I would see one of'em.
(05:21):
So I'd see the breast doctor onemonth, the gynecologist,
another, so every three months.
And that was part of themonitoring.
So I was told it's a lot, andthat was because I said I didn't
wanna have the surgery.
So right when I got diagnosedwith the gene mutation, you have
the choice.
You can, you could choose tohave your ovaries removed or you
could choose to have ahysterectomy, or you could
(05:43):
choose to have a.
Mastectomy as a preventativemetric.
And I felt because looking atthe data that for the BRCA two,
it looked like usually peopledon't get breast cancer with
that until they're much olderthan I was like in sixties.
It appeared like it.
(06:04):
They would be older.
Than I was.
Yeah.
So I said, oh yeah.
So you had to do a lot ofresearch around that too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I felt like I had gears, um,you know, to figure it out and
to do the testing, you know, andmy breast doctor, she's great,
but said, there's gonna come atime, a lot of people.
Usually after a couple years,start getting, feeling the
(06:24):
stress of testing is too muchand they just opt to have the
surgeries.
And I'm like, yeah, that's notgonna be me.
So I ended up doing the, themammogram and then a few months
later I had to do the MRI.
And then when I had the MRI,they ended up pulling me aside.
The radiologist pulled me asideinto a room to view, and I was
(06:48):
thinking like, that's weird.
They don't usually readeverything to you while you're
there.
Then she started talking to me.
She started.
Telling me, she's like, I'm notsaying it cancer, but I really
want you to come back for abiopsy.
So I was thinking, all right, Iprobably have it.
That was how I pretty much foundout, and it was because I was
(07:10):
being monitored and, and itwasn't shown up on the mammogram
just a few months before.
I only had the mammogram maybethree or four months before I
had the MRI.
Oh wow.
And yeah, so it, sorry.
No, I, no, it sounds like therewas your, the attentiveness of
your doctor and then also yourown research on this really
(07:31):
helped to say, okay, hey, wait,there's something here.
We gotta keep an eye on that.
And that really was really agood thing, which I think is
really necessitated and with ourmedical care.
Yeah.
But I'm, I'm so glad that youboth were, had your eyes on it.
Yeah, and, and that's one thingI always, my clients are
probably always, ah, she'ssaying it again, but I always
tell them like, you have to beyour own medical advocate.
(07:54):
Because so often no one is gonnado it for us.
We have to, you know, whetheryou're like, ah, I don't really
like that.
My doctor's dictating his notesin my room with me.
I've had one of those, or I'vehad like, just, you have to feel
that you can have a team,whatever your team is, whether
your team is just, you'rehealthy and it's your, your
(08:15):
dentist and your regular doctor,but you wanna have people that
you feel comfortable with.
And I feel that with mygynecologist, my primary, at the
time, he was great, but mybreast doctor, I felt like
together with them, I feltreally safe and then I felt like
I would be in the right handswhen they helped me navigate the
(08:35):
next stage, which was surgeryand finding a cancer doctor, an
oncologist.
So it was, and just to clarify,just because I am just, I just
need clarification, right?
'cause I'm me.
But so was it, and I reallypardon my ignorance on this, but
was it like an officialdiagnosis or was it like a more
than likely kind of thing?
(08:56):
Is that typically the way it.
It goes.
It was not an official diagnosisuntil I came back to the place
where I had the MRI and they dida needle biopsy.
They did an ultrasound, soundguided biopsy, and then they
biopsy the spot that theythought was suspicious or
whatever they saw.
(09:18):
Then they sent it to the breastdoctor that I had already had a
relationship with for about ayear, and then she read it and
was able to call me into heroffice, and she met my husband
and myself, and she did.
I always laughed.
I've, I've known her for so longnow, but I always laugh and tell
her she has the worst poker facebecause she's, she, I love her,
(09:38):
but she's really, it be good orbad.
It can be good or bad becausewhen I went into the, when I
went into her office that dayfor the appointment.
For her to give me the results.
She had tears in her eyes andshe looked really sad and she
then she waited to tell me,'cause she had tears in her eyes
when she saw me go into theroom.
And then when I.
(09:59):
When it, when she told me, shegave me a hug and everything.
I said, I knew I had it as soonas I walked in your office
because you're, you had tears inyour eyes, but she's just really
empathetic and reallycompassionate and I feel like I
had just then too, I told myhusband, I'm like, I couldn't be
in better hands than with her.
I'm so glad you had that.
(10:20):
That and the way you describedyour team, you felt very safe
with them.
Mm-hmm.
That's really key, and I'm gladthat you had that.
I know that unfortunately, noteverybody has that, but I think
what you're saying, no matterwhat, this experience is not
easy, and having that on hand,definitely.
I think at least makes it morenavigable.
Right.
You know, and feel like you'resupported.
Which, which kind of leads me tomy next question, which I'm
(10:42):
wondering in terms of when youfound this out and the reactions
that you felt, did you feel likeyou had good support?
It sounds like your medical teamwas amazing, but what other
types of support did you haveand do you feel like is needed?
Yeah.
At this time when I, you know,when I found out I was diagnosed
and throughout everything, myhusband and kids were just
(11:04):
beyond helpful.
The kids were really young atthat time.
They helped what they could,they try to pick up, try to, uh,
my daughter got on kitty litterduty because she's, you can't
get on it when you're on chemoand you can't do, but.
Sweet.
Yeah.
My husband, he became the cookand he still has, and he's now
like a chef.
He's gotten so good at cooking.
(11:25):
Wow.
And I think he's found out thatthis is his hobby and passion.
He's just really good at it.
I feel like I really had a lotof support.
My aunt came to.
Stay with me for a week and mycousin stayed with me for a week
and then my cousin came back acouple times.
It's been, it was really nice tohave that and to have that
(11:45):
support from people.
I'm not usually one that willask for help and I actually even
said it.
Yeah, I'll be fine.
I'll be fine.
But I know it was reallyhelpful, especially when my
cousin came because she wouldhelp cook, she would help drive,
you know, also drive the kids toschool.
And it was just really, it wasreally nice and it, you know,
and I know I've shared that mysister passed away and my sister
(12:08):
passed away before I wasdiagnosed.
So having, especially having mycousin visit, um.
Felt very safe and very muchlike a, a sister visiting and
yeah.
But yeah, I, I feel like I didhave a lot of support.
I felt like my husband was themost, what you picture, someone
just su such unconditional loveand just really supportive and,
(12:29):
and whatever you could think ofsomeone being there, he was
there and the kids, again, theywere so little and they were so.
Supportive.
And I know it was so scary forthem and I tried to explain it
to them.
And I, my doctors, my breastdoctor and my oncologist were so
sweet because they knew the kidswere so little that they let
(12:49):
them come to the appointmentsthat they could come.
Of course, they couldn't come tomy chemo appointments, but they.
My breast doctor let them cometo every appointment.
You know, they'd have to turnaround during certain parts, but
they were allowed to come sothat they weren't afraid of
doctors and they weren't afraidof the whole experience.
Oh, that's nice.
And my oncologist let them come,you know, when they're, when it
(13:11):
was just an office visit so theycould see him and meet him, and
they know who's taking care ofmommy and it wasn't scary for
them.
Have a safe connection.
Yeah.
With it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
And I know you had to have,unfortunately, a lot of
surgeries, a lot of medicalintervention from this, but
could you talk a little bitabout how this affected you
(13:35):
personally at home and maybeprofessionally as a a therapist,
when having to be able to taketime off or talk to your clients
about it, other family members?
How was that for you?
Yeah, it wa I did have to have afew surgeries, I think,
including the port coming in andout.
The um, portacath, I think I hadsix surgeries altogether within
(13:57):
a six or eight month period.
I had my mastectomy, doublemastectomy, then chemo later,
then reconstruction.
And I had a hysterectomy too,just as a preventative because
of the gene mutation.
But I ended up taking a monthoff for each of my surgeries
and.
That was really importantbecause I didn't want to, I
(14:17):
didn't wanna work while I wasdrugged, but I also That's fair.
Yeah.
But I also wasn't sure how longit would take to heal and I
didn't wanna rush it.
It was difficult at firstbecause I was a practicing
therapist.
I had a private practice.
I tend to see my clients for along period of time.
Sometimes some I do see short,but some, it's a while.
(14:39):
I've built relationship with alot of'em and telling my
clients.
Was difficult.
I waited till the end of sessionwhen we're scheduling our next
appointment, and then I toldthem, I just found out I have
this diagnosis.
I'm having surgery this date.
I'll be out this long.
This is who will be covering forme.
So it was very, that I found wasvery difficult and there was
(15:00):
like hugs and tears and I had torefocus.
Don't worry about me, like, youknow, I'll be back.
Even when you're going throughthis super tough, all these
medical interventions in thistime in your life, you have to
say, don't worry about me.
Yeah.
But of course people are goingto, because you built up a
relationship and then I did.
After that, I think four monthsafter my surgery, I started
(15:21):
chemotherapy.
So I had already back in theoffice, and so I was seeing my
clients and I had to tell'emagain.
I'll be starting chemotherapyand I'll be on chemo for a few
months and I'll be out.
I'll probably be out the weeksthat I'm getting chemo.
I wanted to have an openconversation with them because
again, I don't want them towonder why is she looking so
(15:42):
pale?
Why is she, but I also wanted tolet them know I'm not gonna be
going when I'm sick.
It did affect me really bad, butI was able to, I scheduled it,
so I do chemotherapy onThursdays and then go back to
work.
Usually that Wednesday, soThursday, Friday, Saturday,
Sunday, Monday usually of mostweek of those weeks.
(16:04):
Some weeks it would take me.
So you'd work like Monday toWednesday kind of thing?
Yeah, or I'd have that, yeah,I'd have a Wednesday i'd or
sometimes I'd work just thatThursday and Friday of the week
that I had chemo and.
Yeah.
So it was, yeah, that was hard.
And it was funny'cause myoncologist used to always say
that, I forget what he said, butbasically that he felt like the
(16:24):
reason why I was doing so, notdoing so well, but I was able to
keep going was just because Ikept working, it didn't stop.
Mm-hmm.
And I told him I needed to keepworking, even if I'm only seeing
one client a week.
Just because it gave me purposeand it made me, it forced me to
get out of my bed and forced meto do something, and it also
(16:45):
helped me put the focus outsideof myself so that I wasn't just
stuck in my head worrying abouthow am I gonna feel after this
next chemo?
What about the next surgerycoming up in six months?
What about the next things thatmay or may not happen and it
grounded you a little bit?
(17:06):
Yeah, it did, and I feel I havemixed feelings about that.
Sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish Iwould've taken that whole year
off.
But I also, that's not who I,that I don't think that's who I
am.
I think I, I get very nervousenergy and I think I would've
just been a bundle of anxiety ifI would've just,'cause what
would I have been doing justwatching reruns of Grey's
(17:27):
Anatomy and then it's not, Idon't think I would've been,
been helpful.
You're, you're a, you're a, Ithink a healer by nature.
You need to be at least in themix of it and being feeling.
Kind of productive.
And that's not to say thateverybody has to do, that's just
to say that's how it felt rightfor you.
And it sounds like it reallyworked.
Yeah.
I mean, I did get reprimandedsometimes from my doctors
telling me that I need to slowdown.
(17:49):
And actually my oncologist didtell me, you need to find
somebody who's well-versed incancer and well-versed in PTSD
because he's like you people whohave gone through the trauma of
the physical trauma.
Of the surgeries and the traumaof the chemotherapy and the
(18:10):
trauma of losing all your hairand the trauma of losing your
strength and,'cause there's somany different components to it
that you don't think of whenyou're in it.
And I'm like, I, I don't havePTSD here.
Dumb.
But then I started, startedWell, like a true therapist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would tell'em like, Idon't have PTSDs really.
(18:30):
Because when you talk aboutstuff, he's like, you're very
detached.
Because I would, I'd be like,Hey, what's really weird?
I could look at my scars and I'dfeel fine.
Everything's fine.
I said, I'm okay.
And he's really, he's, wow, youhave really high eq.
You're really high emotionalintelligence.
Then he's or you are not reallyletting yourself really feel.
Everything.
(18:50):
Maybe it's a little bit of both.
Yeah, it's probably both.
Yeah.
Maybe there's that, but there'salso some other parts.
But it sounds like your doctorpicked up on that.
Wow.
Your, your doctor was really,your team was really in tune
with you.
Yeah.
And checking in and they still,and they, they still are.
My team, like my, I see themevery few months.
Um.
The oncologist and breastdoctor, and they get me, they
get my humor.
(19:10):
They're both so smart and sofunny, and I am so grateful that
I have them, but he was right.
He was 100% right about the,that I was experiencing like a
form of PTSD.
Hmm.
Or maybe even PTSD.
So it took me a while to figurethat out and to find the right
therapist.
I think I bounced around alittle bit to try to find
(19:32):
someone who wasn't gonna belike, oh, like really making me
feel sicker down in the dump.
Yeah.
And so that helped me processhow I was feeling and what hap
the changes physically.
Yeah.
I am the new, the, not only justthe physical, which the
physical.
Transformations and acceptingthat, but also how you feel
about your own identity and withthe process of going through
(19:54):
chemo.
I know you had talked about thechoice to to wear a wig or not,
right?
Because you were still seeingclients sometimes and there's a
little bit of a kind ofwondering if you should or if
you shouldn't, and I wanted toask you about that.
How did you manage that?
How was that for you?
So I, as I said, I was stillseeing clients and also there
was a, there's a couplecomponents, so I was still
(20:15):
seeing clients and in my head, Iguess this was in my must heel,
everything needs to be right.
I felt that it would be lessjarring and upsetting.
Which I'm looking back, I'mlaughing'cause I've seen myself
with the stupid wig.
I'm sorry.
Some people look great in wigs.
I felt like, just like, I don'tknow how to do makeup.
(20:35):
I did not know how to put mystupid wig on.
So I'm like, why didn't I juststraighten it out a little bit?
But I, I, I saw pictures of youat that point and I saw, and I
honestly, I thought it lookedgreat.
Really.
But I know that how you feltabout it.
Maybe different, right?
Yeah.
Maybe I'll post some pictures onInstagram when we have this.
(20:55):
Yeah.
But, but yeah, I felt like Ineeded to, so I even went to one
of my, one of my, one of my verygood friends came down to
Florida.
I guess that's another person.
She came to Florida after myvery first chemo was done and
met me.
And we ended up going to, thisplace is, that's like a drag
drag place where they sell wigs.
(21:18):
Because of course that's what Iwould do.
That matches that.
That tracks.
Yeah, because why not?
Why go to the cancer place thatsells wigs?
Why not goes to the place wherea drag queen is?
That's so fun.
It was so I ended up having himhelp me with the wig and my girl
girlfriend was there and it wasfun and I picked one, but then I
was like, looking back, I wish Iwould've gone for one of the
(21:40):
ones that were completelyopposite of what I am.
But I was also thinking the kidswere really little.
I wanted to be able to wear itto school functions.
Again, some people look great,but they're so hot.
Especially if you're goingthrough chemo, you're already
hot.
Then that's why like thoselittle caps are really nice
'cause they absorb the sweat.
Like it's, it's very Oh really?
Yeah.
So that's something I, Iwouldn't even know that that's,
(22:02):
yeah.
'cause your scalp gets cold, butalso gets really sweaty when
you're going through chemo.
It's just so much discomfort.
And again, looking at picturesof myself, I'm thinking my skin
was so pale.
I don't know if I had eyebrows,but I had a stereotypical
steroid little moon face.
You knew I had chemo, you knew Ihad cancer.
Probably just looking at me,whether I had a wig on or not.
(22:25):
Personally, I saw picturesduring this, and this is just my
personal opinion.
I would, I don't, I thinkthere's obviously probably a
high self-consciousness.
You've just gone through thistrauma.
You're having to takemedication.
It's changing your body, it'staking away your hair and things
like that, and having to adjustto all those things.
It probably.
Brings a high level of likepersonal oof self-consciousness,
(22:48):
but I do not, I do not thinkyou, you looked, I think you
maybe felt that way,understandably, because you're
going through a lot right.
In that transformation.
But I thought you looked good.
Like really, it really was notsomething from the outside view
like you, that you could say, ohyeah, for sure.
She's, you know.
Oh, but I, but I do understandthat feeling.
Like I, I understand you'reprobably felt that way with all
(23:10):
this.
Yeah, this going.
But yeah.
So it sounds, it sounds likethere was this feeling of, I
don't this thought put into yourhead and maybe you, I think like
you said, you didn't want it tobe jarring for your clients.
And of course, us as therapists,we're always looking at how do I
make my, my client feel, how doI set them up to be comfortable?
So that's totally understandablethat you would think that, but
it's, it's a very uniqueperspective when you are
(23:31):
diagnosed with a disease like.
Right.
Breast cancer and determining ifyou want to wear a wig or not,
and if it's for yourself or foryour clients or for just in
general.
You just feel more comfortablethat way.
Yeah.
But you had to decide that onyour own journey.
And then you also had somepeople that maybe weren't so
helpful in that, like maybe theythought they were being, but
maybe it was.
Yeah.
Maybe not the best.
(23:51):
Yeah, I at that point.
It always make me laugh.
Like if I was somewhere, ifeither it was a new client or a
parent or something and maybethey didn't know I like a parent
of my kid's school or something.
'cause some I wasn't, didn'tknow everybody.
It would be like, oh, youreally, you're here today.
I would just laugh to myself.
Well, thanks.
It's not gonna move.
It's not moving.
(24:18):
And that's, that's so funnybecause it really, it, I mean,
it, it was probably genuine.
It was like, oh, it looksdifferent and this, and some
people may not have even, theyjust may have thought, oh, she's
doing something different withher hair.
You know, like it really, andmaybe, you know, you know, it,
it just wasn't as, as noticeableas maybe it felt, because you
are going through all those,right.
Those.
(24:38):
Changes and everything and allthat.
Just everything that you had togo through at that time.
Right.
And in terms of, I know youtalked about professionally with
having to take some time off,letting your clients know, and
obviously that's something thattherapists or professionals,
they have to decide forthemselves, but it sounds like
that was something that was agood decision for you because
(24:59):
it, it let them know and beaware so that they may be, you
didn't want them to, to worry itsounds when you were.
Of course putting, you wereputting them first, which I know
is obviously what we always doas therapists.
Yeah.
But how was that for youpersonally?
Was that tough to balance athome and to have that
perspective or, I know youtalked about that that was
something that helped you tofocus outside of some of the
(25:22):
process, but how is it justwith.
Like family life and things likethat.
Yeah.
It was hard.
Like I said, my husband, heshowed up probably more ways
than most husbands or partnerscould or would he just, he had
to, he continued working.
He took a lot of time off.
He was here.
He became the cook and theshopper and the driving the kids
(25:43):
to school when I wasn't able to.
It's just he was very present,you know, doing the little
projects with them and because alot of times with well after the
surgeries Oh, and he also was.
He is, you know, he was stuckdoing all the gross stuff too,
like after surgery, all of thatbandages and all that and
changing and, and helping youout.
Yeah.
So he really showed up and I wasvery grateful that I had him and
(26:08):
the kids and family that cameand helped and friends, and it
was very, again, I'm not someonethat would ask for help, so that
was very hard.
Not being able to get up andhave dinner some days, or not
being able to drive the kids toschool or not even.
Having the energy to pet Paigeor during that time my cats were
all around my bed because theyprobably, animals are very
(26:30):
instinct.
They know.
Yeah.
But Paige doesn't jump on beds'cause she is a baby.
She's not able to, she's a goodgirl.
Yeah, she, yeah.
She's never been a furnituredog.
But yeah, so it was really, itwas hard at that time to.
Stay still.
And that's also my oncologistused to always get annoyed at
me.
'cause sometimes I'd be like, Ihave to go do something.
So I'd be, go in my garden andthen I'd have chemotherapy and
(26:52):
I'd have like a thousand ampbytes on my legs.
And he's really, what is wrongwith you?
And I'm like, I would get, I'dget reprimanded.
He is like, you realize yourwhite blood cell account is like
nothing.
And you're, so, I had to, I'mlike, all right, he's, you have
to wear boots, you have to weargloves, you have to, you know,
got some scoldings.
Yes.
(27:12):
Or don't do it.
He'd be like, or just stayinside.
Be normal.
Why can't you just, well, Ithink that's a big part of it,
is that your personality is verymuch, you always, you like to be
doing something.
Mm-hmm.
You like to be, you're not aperson who can just sit around
and do nothing.
And that's a tough part toaccept that, okay, I just need
to sit and relax and also cutdown my hours with my job, my
(27:33):
purpose.
Right.
So it was, it sounds like it wasa struggle.
It was really hard.
Yeah.
That part.
You're trying your best.
And it's funny'cause I bought, Ihow when you're sick or you have
cancer, people are always like,here's a journal, here's some
books, here's some magazines,here's this.
I'm like, oh, that's great.
I'll just read and I'll do this.
I'll catch up on shows.
It's really hard to focus whenyou're on medication or you're
on, so I'm like, all right, I'lljust stare or not watch anything
(27:58):
or try not to get annoyed atlooking at the same page of
whatever I'm doing.
So I didn't do any of the.
Things that we always tellclients, okay, do this and it'll
make your mind feel better or,yeah.
Yeah.
So for me it's cuttering anddoing things and fog and, right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
It can affect you, which isanother struggle just to relax
(28:19):
and to even be present, how themedication rattles you in that
way.
Yeah.
You know, it does, and youstill, to this day, you still
have you, you have ongoingappointments for.
For life, right.
For monitoring and yeah.
Other types of cancers tomonitor for that encompass
possibility, those uniquecancers and everything too,
(28:39):
right?
Yeah.
Yeah, because I, I am past thefive year mark, so woo hoo.
I had was triple negative breastcancer.
And I'm five years past, so I amconsidered no evidence of
disease, but because I have thatgene mutation, the B rca, A two,
I'm monitored, I'll bemonitored.
My oncologist and the breastdoctor said that I'll be seeing
(29:01):
them like every six monthsforever.
Plus, I see a GI doctor.
For screening once a year,because other abdominal cancers
can be part of that, which isone of the things with it.
But I'm really glad, I alwaystell my gynecologist that I'm
really grateful that she askedthose questions or that she
actually read my answers.
(29:21):
Because so often doctors willask the questions, so look at it
and they'll be like, okay, oh,let me just see you and not even
go over any of que these answersthat you filled out on the
sheet.
She actually paused and lookedat them and said, Hey, wait a
minute.
These are really weird answers.
(29:41):
Let's review this and let's godeeper.
And so I always told her, I'mlike, you literally saved my
life because the type of cancerI had is very aggressive.
Mm-hmm.
And like triple negative is veryaggressive.
Like it's a fast grower.
And so I was told like theywouldn't have found it.
I would've just been doing theonce a year mon monitoring by
(30:03):
mammogram and it probablywouldn't have been found because
it wasn't found just a fewmonths before when I had a
mammogram and it was only foundon the MRI.
Yeah.
So that vigilance, that, thatkind of attention to those
answers, which is what you arehoping is being looked at, but
sometimes you're right, it doesget overlooked.
It sounds like that was reallylike, wait a minute, let's
actually look at this.
Mm-hmm.
(30:23):
Which is the purpose of askingthose questions, but yeah, it
is, it's really great that, inthat you're past five years.
I don't know if they say cancerfree or in terms of, yeah.
Is there a technical term forthat?
Yeah.
Well, they say it's like NED, noevidence of disease.
Yeah.
But we are all very glad that,of course.
You're, you had a, a great team.
You did the research on yourown.
(30:44):
You had that vigilance as well,and knowing those cancers that
were present in your familyright.
And educating yourself on that,as hard as that was.
Before we go, do you have anyadvice or, or words of wisdom to
people that maybe are startingwithin this journey or have gone
through it already?
(31:04):
Yeah.
With people who are not sureabout their medical history or
they know like they're.
Mother they're on.
If they might be on the mother'sside, maybe ask, talk to your
doc doctors about that or getyour full family history and
maybe explain to your doctorsand ask if you're a candidate
for the genetic testing to beginwith, if that's a possibility.
(31:25):
If you are diagnosed, it's okayto ask for help.
It's okay to accept the help.
That's something.
I took me a a little bit torealize and then I realized, oh,
wait a minute.
They're asking because theywanna help.
They're asking because theywanna be there for me.
I'm not a burden.
So that's something to remindyourself, that when people are
(31:49):
there for you or they're showingup, they're not being forced to.
They wanna be there for you andthey wanna help you because they
care.
Yeah, absolutely.
And words of wisdom we're, we'reso glad that, um, you know, you
are, um, past the point of theNED, um, for, or we can say five
years.
(32:09):
Yeah.
More than five years past that,right?
Because I was diagnosed in 2018,so it's been a little bit.
Yeah, so we're really, Iappreciate, and I'm sure the
listeners really appreciate yousharing this experience.
I know this is very personal,but I think there's a lot of
wisdom in there, a lot ofunderstanding and tell people,
no, they're not alone in this.
And I think it's very much animportant topic that that needs
(32:33):
to be talked about, especiallyfor breast Cancer Awareness
Month, but just in general.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
For doing that.
That's great.
And thank you Tanya forinterviewing me.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, we, we will.
This was a special bonusepisode.
We will have another episode thefollowing week.
So you get three in October.
(32:53):
Yeah.
And this is great one.
We also want to remind you tofollow us on Instagram at Wicked
Psychotherapists.
Subscribe and write us a review.
It really helps us out.
If you can, it does write thatreview would really appreciate
it.
In closing, we will say, anddon't forget to stay wicked and
(33:15):
keep your mind well.
Yes.
All right.
Take care guys.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
Oh, okay.
Bye.
Bye guys.
Look at.
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