July 16, 2025 • 32 mins
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In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, Erin and Tanya dive deep into the cult classic Office Space and unpack the very real mental health themes hiding in plain sight—burnout, toxic work environments, corporate dysfunction, and the pressure to “find meaning” in your 9 to 5.
Whether you've ever hated your job, dreamed about smashing your office printer, or questioned your career path while stuck in traffic—this one’s for you.
We explore how identity, purpose, and work culture collide, reflect on clients (and our own experiences) with burnout, and laugh through the absurdity of meaningless meetings and flair-covered uniforms.
Plus, we ask: If your bills were covered, what would you actually want to do for work?
Spoiler: the answers include therapy centers, art studios, rescue dogs, and a whole lotta travel.
Remember... Stay Wicked and Keep Your Mind Well!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:31):
Hey guys, it's Tanya.
Hi, it's Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
tanya (00:36):
this week we have another, movie that we want to
discuss that has a lot of mentalhealth themes in the workplace.
So we are discussing one of the,the cult classics office space,
which, came out in 1999.
Apparently, I noticed this fromthe, you know, the, i, I
rewatched this again.
But it said that, in the, youknow, on, if you watch it on
(00:57):
Prime, it'll have the little faxtrivia or whatever next to it.
yeah, but I did see that thisoffice space did not do well in
theaters, but gained a cultfollowing on video.
it's been a cult favorite eversince.
I didn't watch it when it firstcame out.
I didn't watch it until yearslater, but I remember people
quoting it and being like, whatthe heck?
(01:18):
I know what they're saying, butIt was, always kind of something
in the zeitgeist.
It became a theme of corporateculture, rallying, rebelling
against it, and looking at thefunny points and the
ridiculousness of it.
Right, right.
Yeah.
And so it's definitely got a lotof mental health themes, but
also just, a lot of funnycharacters and scenarios that
(01:38):
describe corporate culture andthe flattened work culture
there.
Dysfunction that goes on.
so we have, our main character,Peter, who is seemingly kind of
trudging along in this, softwaretech company in a tech.
And he's, you know, kind of.
I think is, is writing code.
trying to update it because it'sright before the year 2000 If
(02:01):
you don't know this computers,what the Y 2K, scare where, you
know, basically that computerscould not read that it was the
year.
2000.
everything had to be updated orelse they thought like the world
was just gonna shut down at thatpoint.
Yeah, it was huge panic.
If you weren't alive during thattime, or if you were and you
remember it, you'll know.
Erin (02:19):
Yeah, it was like everyone was holding their breath until
I'm like, okay, what's gonnahappen?
And then it
tanya (02:24):
yeah, that was really funny.
But, yeah, so he updates a lotof, the backlog for that.
He's like, does some code.
I think he's a softwareengineer, right?
Erin (02:32):
Well, he's in charge of the TPS reports.
I think he's more like, notaccounting.
He does something'cause hisfriends are more software and,
programming.
I think he's like analytics orsomething.
he kind of looks at the reportsand his job is to analyze
everything and to fix it.
tanya (02:48):
I wasn't quite clear what that was, just because I'm not
quite clear with tech ingeneral, He doesn't seem, he
seems kind of, you know, alittle bit like dead end in his
soul in this job.
He's just kind of, Dreadinggoing to work.
He just kind of feels like it'sthe same thing.
You kind of get the sense, he'sjust like, man, there's gotta be
more to this.
and he's talking to otherpeople, like his neighbor and
(03:11):
kind of just like trying togauge is this, is this what you
get from life?
Like, am I, am I normal for notliking this?
And he's really struggling withthat.
Which he's, he's probably like,I don't know, mid, mid late
twenties or something.
yeah, because
Erin (03:24):
I remember they like him and his two friends, Michael
Bolton and the other friend, Ican't remember his name, but
they were talking about like, ohyeah, yeah, if I'm here for, you
know, so long, you know, like,oh yeah, I can't believe, you
know, some people are, you know,are.
We're are here in their fif,they're 50 years old, can you
imagine being here till you're50?
So they, they, you know, then,you know, Tom was like, yeah,
(03:46):
that would be great.
Then I'd be here for, like 20years or something.
they must have been like midtwenties or something.
'cause they're, you know, 50just seemed like so, so far for
that.
tanya (03:56):
Yeah.
They were definitely fairlyyoung.
it seems like Peter had beenthere for a good amount, for his
age, probably like six seven,eight years, something like
that.
And so he's probably in his latetwenties, but he's struggling
with finding his own identity,feeling like, is this what I
want out of life?
Because we spend so much time atwork, What do we get from it?
he's realizing this corporateenvironment is pretty empty you
(04:18):
get to wear a Hawaiian shirthave a piece of cake here and
there and have useless meetingsyour 10,000 bosses will harass
you, if you don't use thecorrect cover sheet for your TPS
reports.
Right.
And won't keep acting likeyou're struggling just because
you forgot to add on the newcover sheet.
Erin (04:32):
Yeah.
and that was something that theBobs, the two bobs, Were like,
what?
You have eight bosses?
So that's when they werethinking oh, Peter really
understands, he's soknowledgeable with his angst.
tanya (04:44):
Yeah, the consultants that come in to, tighten up the
ship, it really is painting apicture of a corporate
environment and how people haveto bend and break themselves to
fit into this and this beingkind of normal, You know, you
work yourself up a corporateladder, get a good job, get paid
retire with a good amount ofmoney.
And that's supposed to be a goodlife.
(05:06):
maybe that is to some people,but Peter was finding this was
not satisfying him.
He just was not feeling goodabout this, he didn't want this
to be his life.
Yeah.
And he keeps asking people thequestion of coworkers.
When we were in high school, theguidance counselor asked you,
what would you do if you had$2million?
What would you do?
And he is like, I just said likenothing.
I would just relax.
Which is like, yeah, that'stotally, I think what.
(05:28):
A lot of people would do, maybethey would do some hobbies after
a while, but I think they justwant to get out of the rat race,
you know?
Just scrambling.
But yeah, there's a lot of,looking around at the
characters, there's a lot ofburnout and stress That we can
see.
Erin (05:44):
even the opening credits, like when they have everybody
driving to work.
It's very evident on how like,you know, you see Peter going in
and outta traffic and sofrustrated and you see Michael
something like a minute.
Yeah.
And Michael Bolton listening togangster rap.
And Tom is so angry, screamingin the car.
(06:05):
So they all have like these waysthat they're getting out their
rage.
To get into this, to theircubicle life, you know?
So it's like, okay, well I'm soangry going into this place.
they must have some form ofburnout,
tanya (06:19):
to me it made sense.
that pace every day, how couldyou not?
It's just not really human.
that's the whole thing aboutthis corporate culture is it's,
it's really not.
It's souls sucking, you know?
And I know that, that's, that'smy opinion.
I'm not saying if anybody else,if they have, you know,
corporate jobs and they love it,but like from this point of
view, it appears to be very soulsucking to all these characters.
(06:41):
Yeah.
they're already kind of buildingup and it's like, they've only
got so much in what they cangive, and their battery's
already half drained by the timethey get to work.
Being in traffic and fightingpeople and just going an inch.
Every five seconds, kind ofmoving up It really is just,
well, when I saw that it made mystomach turn.
I was like, that makes me sick.
Because, you know, our commutesare much better.
We just, walk to the next room.
Erin (07:02):
I would have to drive from where I am.
I would drive like 50 minutes towork at my old job.
I wasn't a therapist in the job,but I shared I was in a cubicle,
but I was a, it was an office,like, it was like a small office
that they made for three peoplein cubicles.
So all three of us were in thisreally small office together.
(07:24):
It was like a nightmare because.
Three different personalities,three different positions.
One person's talking loud, oneperson's not working at all, but
keeps getting promoted.
And then like, you know, so yousee that and it's just really
difficult.
And we then changed, movedbuildings and stuff, and then
they did the open concept forall the cubicles.
So kind of very similar to theoffice space that you know, I
(07:47):
worked nonprofit, but I still,it was kind of a, that that job
did try to have corporate ish,like they tried to have kind of
that way s of being in it.
And it can be very.
Difficult to navigate.
tanya (08:01):
I can't say I've ever, I've, I've maybe had a couple of
jobs that maybe have had sortof, or tried to have that
culture, but I've never workedin an environment that's had
that type of corporate, Job I doknow a lot of people in those
jobs, and that is, to this day,even accurate.
Maybe just with some updatedYeah.
Things.
Maybe not to the extreme, butthere was a lot of examples that
(08:24):
I was laughing at.
I was like, wow.
That's exactly like the thingwith having so many different
bosses, you don't even know whoyou report to.
People moving up that maybearen't even doing the work.
They're maybe just in good withpeople.
Or they're just good at selling.
What they're doing to whoeverneeds to hear that.
Erin (08:39):
I had that you know, it's Like the Peter principle?
where people get promotedbecause they're doing good in
one position, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean they're gonna
do great in their other, butthey people just, okay, well
you're doing somewhat good here.
Let's promote you and give youall these employees and you'll
do a crappy job.
Probably'cause you weren'ttrained, but here you getting
rewarded for this
tanya (09:00):
a lot of times, people would say instead of.
Letting go or firing, they justmove people off.
So it's almost like you getrewarded, because they don't
want to fire people.
instead they move them up thechain.
Or when they have like all thesemass layoffs, they'll lay'em off
and.
yeah.
You know, kind of not really doit very ruthlessly.
Erin (09:19):
And I've also seen too, like where someone like you have
that one employee who's notdoing anything, but also is kind
of annoying and they don't wantit to be their problem, so they
will transfer them to anotherdepartment or another team.
So it's like, all right, so Idon't have to supervise or
manage this person any longer.
But they've been here for a longtime.
Yeah, I've seen that atcompanies I've worked at.
tanya (09:41):
Yeah, for sure.
It definitely is I think, sofunny because when I watched
this, I think I've only seenthis once or twice before, but I
rewatched it yesterday and I hada different lens on it, a
different perspective from aftertalking to people that I've
known that have worked in thesejobs for years and years, it
kind of all clicked.
I think I didn't fullyappreciate it, as much.
(10:03):
And I, was like, that's sofunny.
Yeah.
I remember them saying this.
I remember them saying that.
Yeah, they always say this.
It was just really funny.
the accuracy of it, even thoughthis was made 25, 26 years ago,
it's still kind of, you know, Iguess the structure of it
Erin (10:17):
it's interesting too, like all the different.
Nuances when Peter Fritz gets inhis office and he is just
goofing around or not reallydoing anything, all he's focused
on is the welcome to Bababa.
the redhead receptionist, likehow everyone else is probably
able to drone her out.
They're able to just ignore him.
So he's just focused on that.
Then he's like, oh my god,Milton's little radio is driving
(10:39):
me insane.
So then he is like, Milton.
lower the radio
tanya (10:42):
can use the radio.
Erin (10:43):
Yeah.
But it's like, Peter's not eventrying to pretend like he's
working and then the boss, youknow, there are different
nuances.
when I first watched it, like in99 or 2000 I definitely didn't
have the job I was talkingabout, you know, like, so I
didn't really have any realexperience in corporate world,
just other, you know, like otherjobs.
So it is a different lens.
(11:03):
I watched it last night too, soit was kind of like, okay, this
feels a little different.
tanya (11:07):
could definitely appreciate it more or as, as a,
yeah, and, and, yeah.
Yeah.
As an adult, I guess.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think there really was, abefore and after with the Peter
character because when he goesto work things out with his
girlfriend, at thishypnotherapist, it's almost like
he is on the verge of like, Ineed some answer to this.
And the hypnotherapy really getshim into.
(11:30):
This state of like, why should Icare?
Like why should I waste energyon this?
And it taps into something oflike, it's not that I don't
care, it's that I don't care forthis path.
And then he starts going rogueand walks in the next day, takes
off the door, handles that, givehim electric, static and rips
down the sign guts.
A fish like doesn't show up for,you know, until whatever he
(11:52):
wants knocks down the cubicle.
And so he kind of.
It's almost like he taps intothis, like, wait, I've been on
the edge of this.
And then hypnotherapy, which I,I mean, I don't have much
experience in, I don't know ifthat can work to that degree.
I don't work with it.
I don't mess with it.
but for this movie, that's whatkind of pushed him to tap into,
(12:14):
to say, well, and also I wonder,this is what I want.
Erin (12:16):
Who were the other people?
Because I know his girlfriendwas next to him.
Who was the other couple?
I think it was a group,
tanya (12:21):
like a hypnotherapy group.
Couples group.
Okay.
Because I was wondering why arethey there too,
Erin (12:26):
Okay.
I was thinking that it was justa, Thing with Peter and his
girlfriend.
So I was like, that's reallyweird that there's another
couple.
So I wasn't really sure whatthat was about.
tanya (12:34):
Yeah.
I know, you know, ninetieshypnotherapy and eighties stuff,
that was kind of all the rageBut I know you and I don't
really mess with that.
I just don't feel like I knowenough and I don't practice
that.
But for whatever reason, he wasable to tap into that.
I mean, just kind of like, kindof set about and saying like,
this is what I want and I'm justgonna go for it, whatever the
consequences are, and when theconsultants come in to lay
people off, they're highlyimpressed with his attitude The
(12:56):
Bobs, they're just like he'sexecutive material because he
has confidence I don't careabout this.
So they take that as oh, he'snot challenged, you know?
Erin (13:04):
and just even how he's talking to them.
the Bobs, seem to right awaylike him, and he wasn't trying
to be phony.
even his friends, like theMichael Bolton person.
He is like, I hate MichaelBolton.
But then for the interview he islike, oh yeah.
He's good because one of theBobs is obsessed with, but maybe
if he would've genuinely beenlike, Ugh, no, I don't like him,
(13:25):
or explained why it'sfrustrating having the same
name, maybe they would've beenlike, okay, we're not gonna lay
you off.
tanya (13:32):
I do think Peter in real life would've been laid off.
he probably would've,
Erin (13:35):
he probably would've been fired.
Or something because he no call,no show for two days.
even if it was forced overtime,he still was expected to show
up.
tanya (13:44):
I think it was demonstrating the point of once
you start to take a hold of yourdestiny the path will form that
feeling like you take a hold ofit and he was doing that then
he.
realizes that his two friends,Samir and Michael Bolton are
getting laid off, Michael Boltonhas had this fraudulent virus
that would like, take money fromthe company.
(14:04):
And he is like, let's just doit.
Let's just, you know, maybe thisis the way.
Erin (14:08):
have money taken.
tanya (14:09):
Yeah, it, comes out quicker than he thought, which
must have been really scary.
And then there's also, along theway, these other characters I
really wanted to mention Miltonbecause he is very symbolic of
the utter, suppression of Anger,frustration, not having a say in
corporate environments.
he's just always mumbling, like,maybe I'll set the space on fire
and like, don't, don't do thisto me.
(14:30):
Don't do this to me.
he, feels both Disempowered andincredibly angry at the same
time.
And it's just boiling over andover.
Erin (14:38):
well, and it's also the way they depict it too, like how
you often hear of an officeenvironment.
Oh, it's all the politics, it'sthis and that.
It's who you know or who you'refriends with.
And poor Milton had no friends.
Nobody really understood him orliked him or treated him well.
Of course he's gonna be the onewhose office keeps getting
moved.
And no one even knows that hewas laid off.
(14:59):
He kept getting his check forfive years.
he's all for five years, so he'sjust been kind of like floating.
So it's just, yeah.
So it's probably was really hardfor him too.
And nobody really even got toknow him enough to probably
know, like, this guy issuffering.
Mm-hmm.
Like he's gonna, he's gonna burnthe, he really is gonna burn the
place down.
Yeah.
You know, there's a lot oftelltale signs that his mental
(15:21):
health may have been, you know,not the most stable.
tanya (15:24):
If anyone had taken any time to listen to him and be
like, oh, he's gotten to thispoint.
he is not at burnout.
He's at violent, destructive,which he inevitably acts upon.
I know it's not directly shown,but the assumption is that he
set the fire at the end.
Got the checks and went off intothe beach.
And then even at the beach, whenhe didn't get the right drink
he's like, I'll complain to yourmanager and then put strict nine
(15:47):
in, in, in your drinks.
Like he's got these really, hecan't really stick up for
himself, so he goes full onviolent.
it's pretty, scary.
It's the embodiment of.
somebody who becomes upset withthe workplace and will come back
and maybe shoot up a workplaceor Harm people.
Erin (16:02):
Yeah.
the red stapler, even thoughit's an inanimate object.
was grounding him not to lose itcompletely.
it was this one thing he wasable to keep.
For four or five times they keptmoving him and, it was his thing
that they kept trying to take.
when the vice president, endedup taking it, that was the
catalyst
tanya (16:22):
Now control was gone.
Yeah.
and the character Tom, he's alsosymbolic of somebody who, does
not really know his role.
He's kind of floating by andhe's always fearful he is gonna
get laid off probably because heknows he doesn't do very much.
But then he realizes he isgetting laid off and then he
tries to, you know, Off himself.
yeah.
I dunno if we can say certainthings, off himself and, it
(16:43):
doesn't work.
And then he realizes, when hiswife comes in and interrupts it,
he wants to live.
And then when he is backingoutta the garage, he gets hit by
a, a truck and, and has, youknow, he's, he's.
He's very broken, but he is gota huge settlement on hand, so
that, that kinda works out forhim in an odd way.
Yeah.
Seven, seven
Erin (17:00):
figures.
So he pretty much, yeah, it's, Idon't wanna say he made out, but
it's like he, he feels like hedid.
He feels like, okay, this is agood deal.
tanya (17:10):
Yeah.
And he's able to find his own.
Destiny in that way.
'cause then he, was able to, beat home and he makes his jump to
conclusions, Matt, which waslike his dream.
And maybe he can find somethingelse to do or retire from that
he's kind of another, importantfigure in this office culture.
as well as the manager, of PeterBill, who's just this typical,
(17:31):
you know, there's a lot ofstereotypical behaviors.
he's just very much like,doesn't really listen, doesn't
really care, focuses on sillythings, And just kind of says
things matter of fact has noempathy, it's a one-way
conversation.
just not in line with the peoplehe's managing at all.
Erin (17:48):
I'm gonna need you to come in on Saturday.
And Sunday.
tanya (17:52):
Yeah.
and he has that kind ofannoying, quirky, cadence that's
just like, ugh.
It just makes your skin crawl.
But, you know, like, Hey,
Erin (17:59):
you don't have any plans this weekend, do you, is it
okay?
Or because if it was wordeddifferently or if he was a
different type of manager, Peteror the other employees might be
like, oh yeah, I can come in forsix hours.
how about asking
tanya (18:11):
like earlier in the
Erin (18:12):
week, you know?
Yeah.
Instead of like, corner beforethe end of the week at five.
Five o'clock when you're, youknow, he is trying and trying to
make a run for it.
tanya (18:20):
Yeah.
he's just kind of, doesn't haveany consideration.
He is like, well, we had a lotof layoffs, and then they end up
just having more uselessmeetings, like when Peter
decides not to show up becausehe is over it by that point.
Erin (18:31):
Yeah.
Meetings to have meetings and somany times.
That's what it seems like a lotof companies do too.
It's like, oh my gosh, anothermeeting.
tanya (18:38):
Yeah.
nowadays it's more like, okay,that could have been an email,
right?
We didn't have to have that zoommeeting or whatever, the
important memo for the coverletter that Peter just happens
to miss.
And every 12 people tell himlike, oh, you're struggling.
He's like, I just forgot toswitch it over.
it's not a big deal.
And they make such a big dealabout these things that are just
so pointless.
the memo, And he keeps, showingeveryone
Erin (18:58):
like,
tanya (18:58):
I'll get you another copy of that.
Erin (19:00):
So they're not even listening.
I have it.
tanya (19:02):
Yeah.
they're just focusing onirrelevant bits.
as opposed to what is it you'reactually doing?
what's the meaning here?
What's the purpose?
And that's what Peter isstruggling with.
he meets Joanna, who's also kindof struggling with that.
She's also, I mean, she's in adifferent, she's, you know, a
hostess or waitress at, attchotchkes and she's just kind
of, you know, all the, the sillyrules of having at least 15
pieces of flare when really theywant you to express yourself at
(19:25):
37.
Be outgoing and work like adancing monkey when you're
probably getting paid barelyminimum wage.
For tips.
Erin (19:32):
it was funny when Peter takes Joanne out to lunch and
then you know, the next doorplace and like she has her
uniform on still.
And so she has like all thelittle buttons, a little flare,
he's like, oh, we're not inKansas anymore.
And she's like, oh yeah, I guessnot.
but she has no idea that he'sreferencing her flare.
And he's like, no, no, yourbutton, your button.
(19:53):
She's like, what?
Whatcha talking about?
And then she's like, oh, no, it,it makes me really uncomfortable
talking about my flare.
I don't wanna talk about it.
so that's when you startrealizing there's this
disconnect.
So she's in this reallyridiculously.
Happy seeming place that she'sworking.
her coworker is thrilled to bethere.
he has a thousand buttons on andyou could just tell and I think
(20:13):
that's also finding thecommonality.
Joanne and Peter, it's like, ohyeah, we're both not happy where
we are.
Peter is able to help Joannefigure out maybe you can work
somewhere like this.
Like the restaurant they werehaving lunch at.
tanya (20:28):
It's like she's also feeling the same kind of,
dislike for her job and like, Idon't fit in here when Peter
goes to apologize to her becausehe thinks she slept with the
boss.
But it ends up being someoneelse, in the past.
he's Disgusted by that andjudging her.
But then he, he apologizes andhe's like, I just, I'm just
feeling this like whole malaiseof, of just life and everything
(20:48):
and I just don't know how to.
You know, whatever, like rectifythat and she's like, you know,
most people hate their jobs andshe says something kind of
important.
Like, you know, most peopledon't like their jobs.
you don't have to be happy allthe time, but you can probably
find something better.
this doesn't mean that you justhave to quit work and do
nothing.
Because I think he was feelingvery hopeless at a certain point
(21:10):
after, stealing the money Andfeeling like, oh God, now
stuff's gonna happen from that.
so I think they really help eachother out in that regard mm-hmm.
She also gains courage from himand knowing that he didn't show
up for work and was just doingwhat he wanted to do.
And she was like, I'm gonna quitthis job and, flips off her boss
and some customers at the sametime.
So they kind of meet each otherwhere they're at it's a good,
(21:33):
pairing in that regard.
I was wondering have you hadclients like this where they
have had feelings with theirworkplace feeling like, this
just isn't the right path, orfeeling like the workplace
culture is suffocating them?
Erin (21:45):
Yeah, I mean, with different things.
I mean, I have.
Clients in all different realms.
therapists, people who work inthe medical field, just
corporate, you know, justdifferent things, you know,
for-profit, non-profit.
I have had that with manydifferent clients where they
have that same experience andthen it's navigating.
tanya (22:04):
yeah.
Erin (22:04):
Yeah.
And then it's trying tonavigate, trying to have them
figure out what is it that youlike about this?
Or why do you feel stuck, or whydo you feel, you know, like, so
it's, trying to maybe evenfigure out if they want to leave
or how they can navigatestaying.
tanya (22:18):
I think it's something that I've had a lot of over the
past couple of years,navigating.
figuring out what you truly.
want from life, if you feel likeyou're on the wrong path and
saying mm-hmm.
Is this something that you can,you know, kind of turn around or
change up?
Or is it finding maybe somethingin a different department?
is corporate life in general notfitting you?
(22:39):
I tend to find on average it'sPeople are burned out with the
role and management.
And they usually need a changein their team.
some people are I think theywere kind of, um.
Maybe led into corporate life.
and never really questioned ituntil they were in it and
realized maybe this doesn'treally align with me.
And they're like, well, I, themoney that I get, I'm not gonna
(23:01):
necessarily get anywhere else.
So they feel a little stuck Inthat.
I find that, sometimes withclients, and then it becomes
their whole life some people canbe like, okay, that's okay.
I can find something else in adifferent department.
Or maybe I can switch tononprofit and feel like there's
more meaning in that.
Or maybe find a department or ateam that has more meaning, But
sometimes there are some peoplethat are just like.
(23:23):
They have to just make it work.
And that can cause a lot ofburnout, a lot of depression,
and it's just about looking outfor saying, Hey, are you willing
to, to manage this with all thisother stuff?
is this kind of worth it?
Like that balance of it,because, this is something that
I remember thinking about when Iwas going into the work world.
I remember thinking, I do notwant that as.
(23:45):
My working environment, it justseemed so unappealing.
I didn't care if it was like theway or like money.
I was just like, it justdisgusted me and the environment
still makes my stomach churn,honestly.
in terms of if I were to thinkabout working there day in, day
out, if anybody else likes that,that's cool.
I'm not trying to be judgmental,maybe I sound it, but that's
just, it's not for me.
It's not something I find.
(24:06):
Connecting and, I don't feellike I could find meaning from
it, I think that that'ssomething exploring like meaning
and what it is that you want Outof life is a lot of that in
clients.
well, and that sounds likethat's
Erin (24:17):
really important for you too.
Like to find a, to have a jobthat has meaning instead, you
know, that's probably why you'rea therapist.
tanya (24:23):
Yeah.
To me that was the utmost, butsome people, maybe it's, job
security, feeling like they canhave, you know, a challenge to
move up and that's, that's, youknow, to reach their own, you
know, and yeah.
I just, I do find that there arepeople that, that kind of set
that without looking at otherfactors and then get stuck it
usually is the factor of meaningand purpose.
(24:43):
Feeling like they're not reallydoing anything that they like,
they're, you know, don't wannalook back on their life and be
like, oh, I, I don't feel like Ireally did anything meaningful.
at least with some of the peopleI've talked to, it's a good
movie.
it's really funny.
I think anybody that works incorporate or is aware of
corporate culture, wouldappreciate it.
Or anyone who's had to be stuckin a cubicle Or has coworkers or
(25:03):
office.
I love the themes of, burnout,finding yourself work, culture,
how people react to stress atwork.
Also, how It's not as managed.
I think nowadays corporateenvironments are better about
managing employee stress andmental health.
Erin (25:19):
and also with some of the benefit packages now that
companies have, they're like,oh, we have EAP and we encourage
Mental Health Day, or We dothese volunteer activities
together.
So they try to.
Reach people where they're atI'm not saying that it works all
the time, but they do try tohave within the benefits package
or maybe even have managers havea little bit better training.
(25:41):
Sometimes
tanya (25:42):
they place more of an emphasis on it.
I think it's more the forefrontmental health in the past 20, 25
years.
So yeah, that is very good, tohave that.
anything else that we wanna addfrom that?
Erin (25:53):
No, I think we covered all the different characters and,
oh, one thing, which, is likethe pivotal point of the movie
too.
One of the, you know, aftereveryone, after Samir and
Michael Bolton get laid off,Peter's like, I have a present
for you.
So they, he takes'em to like apark or the woods or somewhere
and unloads that broken printerand just lets them have at it.
(26:15):
I mean, like, that's such aiconic point, you know?
And I think too, when I firstwatched it, I was like, I don't
understand this movie.
I don't understand like the, thefeeling of hating a object like
that so much, you know, again,from working in offices.
Post that movie, I do rememberthe disdain of like, ah, the
printer's jammed, or this orthat, or, you know, just, So,
(26:36):
yeah, that was like a, you know,just them getting so angry.
The two of them just wanted to,beat it up with a baseball bat
or punch it
tanya (26:43):
Yeah, Michael Bolton keeps going after it.
'cause he is just, so, it's likewhat it represents, like all the
frustration of things just notworking in such a dysfunctional
environment.
It's so symbolic that's prettyhilarious now.
Looking at it.
that is a very iconic scene.
So, let's go to our challengequestion.
Our fun challenge question.
The question, if you were to beset for life with your bills,
(27:05):
but you had to have a job, whatwould you wanna do?
Erin (27:08):
if I was set for my bills and I could do anything I
wanted, I think I would justlike to.
Figure out how to do like art,like, you know, just do art
really well and have that as myhobby or career, maybe write a
book.
You know, everyone always saysthey wanna write a book, but if
you didn't have to work and youcould just have all the time,
you could take the classes onhow to write a book.
(27:28):
You'd have the money to have areally good editor.
I'd wanna do that.
just work on different crafts.
They're very.
Isolating.
But if I had all the money inthe world, I could travel and do
other things and wouldn't haveto worry about finances.
I could take all the classes soI could be with people, you
know, whether it's certificationor just learning things, maybe
be a therapist, part time, Teacha class or be the person that
(27:51):
goes into businesses.
As a consultant, maybe I'dbecome a consultant, you know,
might be one of the Bobs.
Yeah, maybe I'd become a bobbecause I wouldn't really have
to worry about the day-to-day,Monday through Friday therapy, I
remember having some consultantsand I was like, oh, they're kind
of fun.
They're doing like team buildingand they're doing, you know,
find out your Myers-Briggs anddoing different things.
I think that could be fine.
(28:11):
Like the occupational,Consultants.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Like an io type of person.
Yeah.
I think that I'm industrialorganizational therapist.
I think that could be fun.
tanya (28:20):
Oh, that's what, I meant organizational therapist, not
occupational.
Erin (28:22):
know what, I knew what you meant.
I knew what you meant.
You got me.
tanya (28:24):
Yeah.
that's so funny.
I would say almost the exactsame thing, because I was
thinking that I would love tojust be able to write and travel
and have the free time to go andenjoy and absorb, so I could
engage in creative pursuits thatI try now, but it's tough
because we have this.
Schedule, Of work like everybodydoes, everybody that needs to
work I would love to paint andwrite and travel, but I also
(28:48):
think I would like to continuetherapy as well I think I would
definitely reduce my schedule.
I do think maybe I would havesome therapy groups Something
where I could be more creativein it if I had the time to set
it up, I think that would befun.
Erin (29:01):
And maybe that's would be more fun than doing a
consultant.
'cause I think I would like tostill, I like the idea of like,
hey.
Let's, you know, have a yogainstructor do something, then
we'll do this.
tanya (29:12):
You know,
Erin (29:12):
incorporate, or, I'll just do therapy
tanya (29:15):
or have a multidisciplinary therapy center
where you could have differentgroups it doesn't have to be
one-on-one therapy, it could beyoga or expressive arts and
stuff like that.
Creative kind of, that would bereally
Erin (29:25):
Yeah.
And then have so much money, youdon't have to worry about the
lease or the rent or having ownin the building.
tanya (29:30):
Yeah.
it could be like a slidingscale.
You don't have to worry aboutthat, What can you bring in your
nonprofit into this?
Yeah.
That's perfect.
I think that would be reallyawesome.
I also think maybe doing somework with animals too, like just
because I love animals and Metoo.
I think that would be somethinglike that.
there'd be a lot of differentthings Maybe not have as a set
job, but I would do a lot ofthose things I don't know if I
(29:52):
actually would.
I would like that in my mind.
Erin (29:53):
Have some rescue something, Or just figure out.
'cause I always like that, likewhen you think of Martha
Stewart, she has all thesehorses and dogs and cats she has
all the money and, hobbies too.
It seems like she's doing somepainting, or gardening, cooking,
sewing.
So something like that, butmaybe not to that scale.
tanya (30:09):
Yeah.
I would just like to do moreexpressive arts and stuff and
Cooking and things like that.
Gardening is not really myrealm, but my husband could have
fun and my in-laws, you know,'cause they like to do that
stuff.
I like the results of it.
Erin (30:22):
Yeah.
I like gardening and the weedingand the trimming and stuff like
that.
Yeah, but I would like to learnmore like art.
Art,
tanya (30:30):
like expressive arts.
Erin (30:31):
so maybe we can open a center together.
We'd be on the same track.
we could open up a centertogether and Yeah.
I like that.
we would have it in Florida andmass, and we could just do like
the whole east coast.
We would just have a bunch ofcenter.
Yeah.
Just
tanya (30:43):
And then maybe we pick somewhere out.
Easter International if we'refeeling, extra ambitious.
And then we can have
Erin (30:47):
like a one room that's just our studio for when we
record our podcast.
So yes, there you go.
And beds for Paige and LucyPaige is next to me now.
tanya (30:57):
I think she just woke up.
she looks confused.
So she is like,
Erin (31:00):
what?
Yeah,
tanya (31:00):
I think I heard my name.
Yeah.
Erin (31:02):
Well, yeah, she has her hearing back.
I don't know if I told you that,
tanya (31:05):
Okay.
Erin (31:05):
those of you that might not know Paige went deaf, in
September from a really bad earinfection and some medication.
So we've noticed she's beenhearing her name.
She's been coming when she'scalled.
So that's been happening in thepast couple weeks.
it's really exciting.
That is awesome.
Well, good.
tanya (31:21):
we're very happy for Paige.
yeah, she went through a lot andshe's our little mascot dog.
Yeah.
Our little old lady.
Yeah.
But yeah, so let us know whatyou think.
any suggestions for futureepisodes, anything in general.
We'd love to hear from you.
We're on all socials.
you can find us anywhere.
Send us a message and we willget back to you.
(31:42):
thanks for tuning in.
and don't forget, stay wickedand keep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
Bye bye guys.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday to the Wicked
Psychotherapist Podcast.
Be sure to like and follow us onApple, Spotify, and Amazon, or
(32:06):
wherever else you listen to yourpodcasts.
Hey guys, it's Tanya.
Hi, it's Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
tanya (00:36):
this week we have another, movie that we want to
discuss that has a lot of mentalhealth themes in the workplace.
So we are discussing one of the,the cult classics office space,
which, came out in 1999.
Apparently, I noticed this fromthe, you know, the, i, I
rewatched this again.
But it said that, in the, youknow, on, if you watch it on
(00:57):
Prime, it'll have the little faxtrivia or whatever next to it.
yeah, but I did see that thisoffice space did not do well in
theaters, but gained a cultfollowing on video.
it's been a cult favorite eversince.
I didn't watch it when it firstcame out.
I didn't watch it until yearslater, but I remember people
quoting it and being like, whatthe heck?
(01:18):
I know what they're saying, butIt was, always kind of something
in the zeitgeist.
It became a theme of corporateculture, rallying, rebelling
against it, and looking at thefunny points and the
ridiculousness of it.
Right, right.
Yeah.
And so it's definitely got a lotof mental health themes, but
also just, a lot of funnycharacters and scenarios that
(01:38):
describe corporate culture andthe flattened work culture
there.
Dysfunction that goes on.
so we have, our main character,Peter, who is seemingly kind of
trudging along in this, softwaretech company in a tech.
And he's, you know, kind of.
I think is, is writing code.
trying to update it because it'sright before the year 2000 If
(02:01):
you don't know this computers,what the Y 2K, scare where, you
know, basically that computerscould not read that it was the
year.
2000.
everything had to be updated orelse they thought like the world
was just gonna shut down at thatpoint.
Yeah, it was huge panic.
If you weren't alive during thattime, or if you were and you
remember it, you'll know.
Erin (02:19):
Yeah, it was like everyone was holding their breath until
I'm like, okay, what's gonnahappen?
And then it
tanya (02:24):
yeah, that was really funny.
But, yeah, so he updates a lotof, the backlog for that.
He's like, does some code.
I think he's a softwareengineer, right?
Erin (02:32):
Well, he's in charge of the TPS reports.
I think he's more like, notaccounting.
He does something'cause hisfriends are more software and,
programming.
I think he's like analytics orsomething.
he kind of looks at the reportsand his job is to analyze
everything and to fix it.
tanya (02:48):
I wasn't quite clear what that was, just because I'm not
quite clear with tech ingeneral, He doesn't seem, he
seems kind of, you know, alittle bit like dead end in his
soul in this job.
He's just kind of, Dreadinggoing to work.
He just kind of feels like it'sthe same thing.
You kind of get the sense, he'sjust like, man, there's gotta be
more to this.
and he's talking to otherpeople, like his neighbor and
(03:11):
kind of just like trying togauge is this, is this what you
get from life?
Like, am I, am I normal for notliking this?
And he's really struggling withthat.
Which he's, he's probably like,I don't know, mid, mid late
twenties or something.
yeah, because
Erin (03:24):
I remember they like him and his two friends, Michael
Bolton and the other friend, Ican't remember his name, but
they were talking about like, ohyeah, yeah, if I'm here for, you
know, so long, you know, like,oh yeah, I can't believe, you
know, some people are, you know,are.
We're are here in their fif,they're 50 years old, can you
imagine being here till you're50?
So they, they, you know, then,you know, Tom was like, yeah,
(03:46):
that would be great.
Then I'd be here for, like 20years or something.
they must have been like midtwenties or something.
'cause they're, you know, 50just seemed like so, so far for
that.
tanya (03:56):
Yeah.
They were definitely fairlyyoung.
it seems like Peter had beenthere for a good amount, for his
age, probably like six seven,eight years, something like
that.
And so he's probably in his latetwenties, but he's struggling
with finding his own identity,feeling like, is this what I
want out of life?
Because we spend so much time atwork, What do we get from it?
he's realizing this corporateenvironment is pretty empty you
(04:18):
get to wear a Hawaiian shirthave a piece of cake here and
there and have useless meetingsyour 10,000 bosses will harass
you, if you don't use thecorrect cover sheet for your TPS
reports.
Right.
And won't keep acting likeyou're struggling just because
you forgot to add on the newcover sheet.
Erin (04:32):
Yeah.
and that was something that theBobs, the two bobs, Were like,
what?
You have eight bosses?
So that's when they werethinking oh, Peter really
understands, he's soknowledgeable with his angst.
tanya (04:44):
Yeah, the consultants that come in to, tighten up the
ship, it really is painting apicture of a corporate
environment and how people haveto bend and break themselves to
fit into this and this beingkind of normal, You know, you
work yourself up a corporateladder, get a good job, get paid
retire with a good amount ofmoney.
And that's supposed to be a goodlife.
(05:06):
maybe that is to some people,but Peter was finding this was
not satisfying him.
He just was not feeling goodabout this, he didn't want this
to be his life.
Yeah.
And he keeps asking people thequestion of coworkers.
When we were in high school, theguidance counselor asked you,
what would you do if you had$2million?
What would you do?
And he is like, I just said likenothing.
I would just relax.
Which is like, yeah, that'stotally, I think what.
(05:28):
A lot of people would do, maybethey would do some hobbies after
a while, but I think they justwant to get out of the rat race,
you know?
Just scrambling.
But yeah, there's a lot of,looking around at the
characters, there's a lot ofburnout and stress That we can
see.
Erin (05:44):
even the opening credits, like when they have everybody
driving to work.
It's very evident on how like,you know, you see Peter going in
and outta traffic and sofrustrated and you see Michael
something like a minute.
Yeah.
And Michael Bolton listening togangster rap.
And Tom is so angry, screamingin the car.
(06:05):
So they all have like these waysthat they're getting out their
rage.
To get into this, to theircubicle life, you know?
So it's like, okay, well I'm soangry going into this place.
they must have some form ofburnout,
tanya (06:19):
to me it made sense.
that pace every day, how couldyou not?
It's just not really human.
that's the whole thing aboutthis corporate culture is it's,
it's really not.
It's souls sucking, you know?
And I know that, that's, that'smy opinion.
I'm not saying if anybody else,if they have, you know,
corporate jobs and they love it,but like from this point of
view, it appears to be very soulsucking to all these characters.
(06:41):
Yeah.
they're already kind of buildingup and it's like, they've only
got so much in what they cangive, and their battery's
already half drained by the timethey get to work.
Being in traffic and fightingpeople and just going an inch.
Every five seconds, kind ofmoving up It really is just,
well, when I saw that it made mystomach turn.
I was like, that makes me sick.
Because, you know, our commutesare much better.
We just, walk to the next room.
Erin (07:02):
I would have to drive from where I am.
I would drive like 50 minutes towork at my old job.
I wasn't a therapist in the job,but I shared I was in a cubicle,
but I was a, it was an office,like, it was like a small office
that they made for three peoplein cubicles.
So all three of us were in thisreally small office together.
(07:24):
It was like a nightmare because.
Three different personalities,three different positions.
One person's talking loud, oneperson's not working at all, but
keeps getting promoted.
And then like, you know, so yousee that and it's just really
difficult.
And we then changed, movedbuildings and stuff, and then
they did the open concept forall the cubicles.
So kind of very similar to theoffice space that you know, I
(07:47):
worked nonprofit, but I still,it was kind of a, that that job
did try to have corporate ish,like they tried to have kind of
that way s of being in it.
And it can be very.
Difficult to navigate.
tanya (08:01):
I can't say I've ever, I've, I've maybe had a couple of
jobs that maybe have had sortof, or tried to have that
culture, but I've never workedin an environment that's had
that type of corporate, Job I doknow a lot of people in those
jobs, and that is, to this day,even accurate.
Maybe just with some updatedYeah.
Things.
Maybe not to the extreme, butthere was a lot of examples that
(08:24):
I was laughing at.
I was like, wow.
That's exactly like the thingwith having so many different
bosses, you don't even know whoyou report to.
People moving up that maybearen't even doing the work.
They're maybe just in good withpeople.
Or they're just good at selling.
What they're doing to whoeverneeds to hear that.
Erin (08:39):
I had that you know, it's Like the Peter principle?
where people get promotedbecause they're doing good in
one position, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean they're gonna
do great in their other, butthey people just, okay, well
you're doing somewhat good here.
Let's promote you and give youall these employees and you'll
do a crappy job.
Probably'cause you weren'ttrained, but here you getting
rewarded for this
tanya (09:00):
a lot of times, people would say instead of.
Letting go or firing, they justmove people off.
So it's almost like you getrewarded, because they don't
want to fire people.
instead they move them up thechain.
Or when they have like all thesemass layoffs, they'll lay'em off
and.
yeah.
You know, kind of not really doit very ruthlessly.
Erin (09:19):
And I've also seen too, like where someone like you have
that one employee who's notdoing anything, but also is kind
of annoying and they don't wantit to be their problem, so they
will transfer them to anotherdepartment or another team.
So it's like, all right, so Idon't have to supervise or
manage this person any longer.
But they've been here for a longtime.
Yeah, I've seen that atcompanies I've worked at.
tanya (09:41):
Yeah, for sure.
It definitely is I think, sofunny because when I watched
this, I think I've only seenthis once or twice before, but I
rewatched it yesterday and I hada different lens on it, a
different perspective from aftertalking to people that I've
known that have worked in thesejobs for years and years, it
kind of all clicked.
I think I didn't fullyappreciate it, as much.
(10:03):
And I, was like, that's sofunny.
Yeah.
I remember them saying this.
I remember them saying that.
Yeah, they always say this.
It was just really funny.
the accuracy of it, even thoughthis was made 25, 26 years ago,
it's still kind of, you know, Iguess the structure of it
Erin (10:17):
it's interesting too, like all the different.
Nuances when Peter Fritz gets inhis office and he is just
goofing around or not reallydoing anything, all he's focused
on is the welcome to Bababa.
the redhead receptionist, likehow everyone else is probably
able to drone her out.
They're able to just ignore him.
So he's just focused on that.
Then he's like, oh my god,Milton's little radio is driving
(10:39):
me insane.
So then he is like, Milton.
lower the radio
tanya (10:42):
can use the radio.
Erin (10:43):
Yeah.
But it's like, Peter's not eventrying to pretend like he's
working and then the boss, youknow, there are different
nuances.
when I first watched it, like in99 or 2000 I definitely didn't
have the job I was talkingabout, you know, like, so I
didn't really have any realexperience in corporate world,
just other, you know, like otherjobs.
So it is a different lens.
(11:03):
I watched it last night too, soit was kind of like, okay, this
feels a little different.
tanya (11:07):
could definitely appreciate it more or as, as a,
yeah, and, and, yeah.
Yeah.
As an adult, I guess.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think there really was, abefore and after with the Peter
character because when he goesto work things out with his
girlfriend, at thishypnotherapist, it's almost like
he is on the verge of like, Ineed some answer to this.
And the hypnotherapy really getshim into.
(11:30):
This state of like, why should Icare?
Like why should I waste energyon this?
And it taps into something oflike, it's not that I don't
care, it's that I don't care forthis path.
And then he starts going rogueand walks in the next day, takes
off the door, handles that, givehim electric, static and rips
down the sign guts.
A fish like doesn't show up for,you know, until whatever he
(11:52):
wants knocks down the cubicle.
And so he kind of.
It's almost like he taps intothis, like, wait, I've been on
the edge of this.
And then hypnotherapy, which I,I mean, I don't have much
experience in, I don't know ifthat can work to that degree.
I don't work with it.
I don't mess with it.
but for this movie, that's whatkind of pushed him to tap into,
(12:14):
to say, well, and also I wonder,this is what I want.
Erin (12:16):
Who were the other people?
Because I know his girlfriendwas next to him.
Who was the other couple?
I think it was a group,
tanya (12:21):
like a hypnotherapy group.
Couples group.
Okay.
Because I was wondering why arethey there too,
Erin (12:26):
Okay.
I was thinking that it was justa, Thing with Peter and his
girlfriend.
So I was like, that's reallyweird that there's another
couple.
So I wasn't really sure whatthat was about.
tanya (12:34):
Yeah.
I know, you know, ninetieshypnotherapy and eighties stuff,
that was kind of all the rageBut I know you and I don't
really mess with that.
I just don't feel like I knowenough and I don't practice
that.
But for whatever reason, he wasable to tap into that.
I mean, just kind of like, kindof set about and saying like,
this is what I want and I'm justgonna go for it, whatever the
consequences are, and when theconsultants come in to lay
people off, they're highlyimpressed with his attitude The
(12:56):
Bobs, they're just like he'sexecutive material because he
has confidence I don't careabout this.
So they take that as oh, he'snot challenged, you know?
Erin (13:04):
and just even how he's talking to them.
the Bobs, seem to right awaylike him, and he wasn't trying
to be phony.
even his friends, like theMichael Bolton person.
He is like, I hate MichaelBolton.
But then for the interview he islike, oh yeah.
He's good because one of theBobs is obsessed with, but maybe
if he would've genuinely beenlike, Ugh, no, I don't like him,
(13:25):
or explained why it'sfrustrating having the same
name, maybe they would've beenlike, okay, we're not gonna lay
you off.
tanya (13:32):
I do think Peter in real life would've been laid off.
he probably would've,
Erin (13:35):
he probably would've been fired.
Or something because he no call,no show for two days.
even if it was forced overtime,he still was expected to show
up.
tanya (13:44):
I think it was demonstrating the point of once
you start to take a hold of yourdestiny the path will form that
feeling like you take a hold ofit and he was doing that then
he.
realizes that his two friends,Samir and Michael Bolton are
getting laid off, Michael Boltonhas had this fraudulent virus
that would like, take money fromthe company.
(14:04):
And he is like, let's just doit.
Let's just, you know, maybe thisis the way.
Erin (14:08):
have money taken.
tanya (14:09):
Yeah, it, comes out quicker than he thought, which
must have been really scary.
And then there's also, along theway, these other characters I
really wanted to mention Miltonbecause he is very symbolic of
the utter, suppression of Anger,frustration, not having a say in
corporate environments.
he's just always mumbling, like,maybe I'll set the space on fire
and like, don't, don't do thisto me.
(14:30):
Don't do this to me.
he, feels both Disempowered andincredibly angry at the same
time.
And it's just boiling over andover.
Erin (14:38):
well, and it's also the way they depict it too, like how
you often hear of an officeenvironment.
Oh, it's all the politics, it'sthis and that.
It's who you know or who you'refriends with.
And poor Milton had no friends.
Nobody really understood him orliked him or treated him well.
Of course he's gonna be the onewhose office keeps getting
moved.
And no one even knows that hewas laid off.
(14:59):
He kept getting his check forfive years.
he's all for five years, so he'sjust been kind of like floating.
So it's just, yeah.
So it's probably was really hardfor him too.
And nobody really even got toknow him enough to probably
know, like, this guy issuffering.
Mm-hmm.
Like he's gonna, he's gonna burnthe, he really is gonna burn the
place down.
Yeah.
You know, there's a lot oftelltale signs that his mental
(15:21):
health may have been, you know,not the most stable.
tanya (15:24):
If anyone had taken any time to listen to him and be
like, oh, he's gotten to thispoint.
he is not at burnout.
He's at violent, destructive,which he inevitably acts upon.
I know it's not directly shown,but the assumption is that he
set the fire at the end.
Got the checks and went off intothe beach.
And then even at the beach, whenhe didn't get the right drink
he's like, I'll complain to yourmanager and then put strict nine
(15:47):
in, in, in your drinks.
Like he's got these really, hecan't really stick up for
himself, so he goes full onviolent.
it's pretty, scary.
It's the embodiment of.
somebody who becomes upset withthe workplace and will come back
and maybe shoot up a workplaceor Harm people.
Erin (16:02):
Yeah.
the red stapler, even thoughit's an inanimate object.
was grounding him not to lose itcompletely.
it was this one thing he wasable to keep.
For four or five times they keptmoving him and, it was his thing
that they kept trying to take.
when the vice president, endedup taking it, that was the
catalyst
tanya (16:22):
Now control was gone.
Yeah.
and the character Tom, he's alsosymbolic of somebody who, does
not really know his role.
He's kind of floating by andhe's always fearful he is gonna
get laid off probably because heknows he doesn't do very much.
But then he realizes he isgetting laid off and then he
tries to, you know, Off himself.
yeah.
I dunno if we can say certainthings, off himself and, it
(16:43):
doesn't work.
And then he realizes, when hiswife comes in and interrupts it,
he wants to live.
And then when he is backingoutta the garage, he gets hit by
a, a truck and, and has, youknow, he's, he's.
He's very broken, but he is gota huge settlement on hand, so
that, that kinda works out forhim in an odd way.
Yeah.
Seven, seven
Erin (17:00):
figures.
So he pretty much, yeah, it's, Idon't wanna say he made out, but
it's like he, he feels like hedid.
He feels like, okay, this is agood deal.
tanya (17:10):
Yeah.
And he's able to find his own.
Destiny in that way.
'cause then he, was able to, beat home and he makes his jump to
conclusions, Matt, which waslike his dream.
And maybe he can find somethingelse to do or retire from that
he's kind of another, importantfigure in this office culture.
as well as the manager, of PeterBill, who's just this typical,
(17:31):
you know, there's a lot ofstereotypical behaviors.
he's just very much like,doesn't really listen, doesn't
really care, focuses on sillythings, And just kind of says
things matter of fact has noempathy, it's a one-way
conversation.
just not in line with the peoplehe's managing at all.
Erin (17:48):
I'm gonna need you to come in on Saturday.
And Sunday.
tanya (17:52):
Yeah.
and he has that kind ofannoying, quirky, cadence that's
just like, ugh.
It just makes your skin crawl.
But, you know, like, Hey,
Erin (17:59):
you don't have any plans this weekend, do you, is it
okay?
Or because if it was wordeddifferently or if he was a
different type of manager, Peteror the other employees might be
like, oh yeah, I can come in forsix hours.
how about asking
tanya (18:11):
like earlier in the
Erin (18:12):
week, you know?
Yeah.
Instead of like, corner beforethe end of the week at five.
Five o'clock when you're, youknow, he is trying and trying to
make a run for it.
tanya (18:20):
Yeah.
he's just kind of, doesn't haveany consideration.
He is like, well, we had a lotof layoffs, and then they end up
just having more uselessmeetings, like when Peter
decides not to show up becausehe is over it by that point.
Erin (18:31):
Yeah.
Meetings to have meetings and somany times.
That's what it seems like a lotof companies do too.
It's like, oh my gosh, anothermeeting.
tanya (18:38):
Yeah.
nowadays it's more like, okay,that could have been an email,
right?
We didn't have to have that zoommeeting or whatever, the
important memo for the coverletter that Peter just happens
to miss.
And every 12 people tell himlike, oh, you're struggling.
He's like, I just forgot toswitch it over.
it's not a big deal.
And they make such a big dealabout these things that are just
so pointless.
the memo, And he keeps, showingeveryone
Erin (18:58):
like,
tanya (18:58):
I'll get you another copy of that.
Erin (19:00):
So they're not even listening.
I have it.
tanya (19:02):
Yeah.
they're just focusing onirrelevant bits.
as opposed to what is it you'reactually doing?
what's the meaning here?
What's the purpose?
And that's what Peter isstruggling with.
he meets Joanna, who's also kindof struggling with that.
She's also, I mean, she's in adifferent, she's, you know, a
hostess or waitress at, attchotchkes and she's just kind
of, you know, all the, the sillyrules of having at least 15
pieces of flare when really theywant you to express yourself at
(19:25):
37.
Be outgoing and work like adancing monkey when you're
probably getting paid barelyminimum wage.
For tips.
Erin (19:32):
it was funny when Peter takes Joanne out to lunch and
then you know, the next doorplace and like she has her
uniform on still.
And so she has like all thelittle buttons, a little flare,
he's like, oh, we're not inKansas anymore.
And she's like, oh yeah, I guessnot.
but she has no idea that he'sreferencing her flare.
And he's like, no, no, yourbutton, your button.
(19:53):
She's like, what?
Whatcha talking about?
And then she's like, oh, no, it,it makes me really uncomfortable
talking about my flare.
I don't wanna talk about it.
so that's when you startrealizing there's this
disconnect.
So she's in this reallyridiculously.
Happy seeming place that she'sworking.
her coworker is thrilled to bethere.
he has a thousand buttons on andyou could just tell and I think
(20:13):
that's also finding thecommonality.
Joanne and Peter, it's like, ohyeah, we're both not happy where
we are.
Peter is able to help Joannefigure out maybe you can work
somewhere like this.
Like the restaurant they werehaving lunch at.
tanya (20:28):
It's like she's also feeling the same kind of,
dislike for her job and like, Idon't fit in here when Peter
goes to apologize to her becausehe thinks she slept with the
boss.
But it ends up being someoneelse, in the past.
he's Disgusted by that andjudging her.
But then he, he apologizes andhe's like, I just, I'm just
feeling this like whole malaiseof, of just life and everything
(20:48):
and I just don't know how to.
You know, whatever, like rectifythat and she's like, you know,
most people hate their jobs andshe says something kind of
important.
Like, you know, most peopledon't like their jobs.
you don't have to be happy allthe time, but you can probably
find something better.
this doesn't mean that you justhave to quit work and do
nothing.
Because I think he was feelingvery hopeless at a certain point
(21:10):
after, stealing the money Andfeeling like, oh God, now
stuff's gonna happen from that.
so I think they really help eachother out in that regard mm-hmm.
She also gains courage from himand knowing that he didn't show
up for work and was just doingwhat he wanted to do.
And she was like, I'm gonna quitthis job and, flips off her boss
and some customers at the sametime.
So they kind of meet each otherwhere they're at it's a good,
(21:33):
pairing in that regard.
I was wondering have you hadclients like this where they
have had feelings with theirworkplace feeling like, this
just isn't the right path, orfeeling like the workplace
culture is suffocating them?
Erin (21:45):
Yeah, I mean, with different things.
I mean, I have.
Clients in all different realms.
therapists, people who work inthe medical field, just
corporate, you know, justdifferent things, you know,
for-profit, non-profit.
I have had that with manydifferent clients where they
have that same experience andthen it's navigating.
tanya (22:04):
yeah.
Erin (22:04):
Yeah.
And then it's trying tonavigate, trying to have them
figure out what is it that youlike about this?
Or why do you feel stuck, or whydo you feel, you know, like, so
it's, trying to maybe evenfigure out if they want to leave
or how they can navigatestaying.
tanya (22:18):
I think it's something that I've had a lot of over the
past couple of years,navigating.
figuring out what you truly.
want from life, if you feel likeyou're on the wrong path and
saying mm-hmm.
Is this something that you can,you know, kind of turn around or
change up?
Or is it finding maybe somethingin a different department?
is corporate life in general notfitting you?
(22:39):
I tend to find on average it'sPeople are burned out with the
role and management.
And they usually need a changein their team.
some people are I think theywere kind of, um.
Maybe led into corporate life.
and never really questioned ituntil they were in it and
realized maybe this doesn'treally align with me.
And they're like, well, I, themoney that I get, I'm not gonna
(23:01):
necessarily get anywhere else.
So they feel a little stuck Inthat.
I find that, sometimes withclients, and then it becomes
their whole life some people canbe like, okay, that's okay.
I can find something else in adifferent department.
Or maybe I can switch tononprofit and feel like there's
more meaning in that.
Or maybe find a department or ateam that has more meaning, But
sometimes there are some peoplethat are just like.
(23:23):
They have to just make it work.
And that can cause a lot ofburnout, a lot of depression,
and it's just about looking outfor saying, Hey, are you willing
to, to manage this with all thisother stuff?
is this kind of worth it?
Like that balance of it,because, this is something that
I remember thinking about when Iwas going into the work world.
I remember thinking, I do notwant that as.
(23:45):
My working environment, it justseemed so unappealing.
I didn't care if it was like theway or like money.
I was just like, it justdisgusted me and the environment
still makes my stomach churn,honestly.
in terms of if I were to thinkabout working there day in, day
out, if anybody else likes that,that's cool.
I'm not trying to be judgmental,maybe I sound it, but that's
just, it's not for me.
It's not something I find.
(24:06):
Connecting and, I don't feellike I could find meaning from
it, I think that that'ssomething exploring like meaning
and what it is that you want Outof life is a lot of that in
clients.
well, and that sounds likethat's
Erin (24:17):
really important for you too.
Like to find a, to have a jobthat has meaning instead, you
know, that's probably why you'rea therapist.
tanya (24:23):
Yeah.
To me that was the utmost, butsome people, maybe it's, job
security, feeling like they canhave, you know, a challenge to
move up and that's, that's, youknow, to reach their own, you
know, and yeah.
I just, I do find that there arepeople that, that kind of set
that without looking at otherfactors and then get stuck it
usually is the factor of meaningand purpose.
(24:43):
Feeling like they're not reallydoing anything that they like,
they're, you know, don't wannalook back on their life and be
like, oh, I, I don't feel like Ireally did anything meaningful.
at least with some of the peopleI've talked to, it's a good
movie.
it's really funny.
I think anybody that works incorporate or is aware of
corporate culture, wouldappreciate it.
Or anyone who's had to be stuckin a cubicle Or has coworkers or
(25:03):
office.
I love the themes of, burnout,finding yourself work, culture,
how people react to stress atwork.
Also, how It's not as managed.
I think nowadays corporateenvironments are better about
managing employee stress andmental health.
Erin (25:19):
and also with some of the benefit packages now that
companies have, they're like,oh, we have EAP and we encourage
Mental Health Day, or We dothese volunteer activities
together.
So they try to.
Reach people where they're atI'm not saying that it works all
the time, but they do try tohave within the benefits package
or maybe even have managers havea little bit better training.
(25:41):
Sometimes
tanya (25:42):
they place more of an emphasis on it.
I think it's more the forefrontmental health in the past 20, 25
years.
So yeah, that is very good, tohave that.
anything else that we wanna addfrom that?
Erin (25:53):
No, I think we covered all the different characters and,
oh, one thing, which, is likethe pivotal point of the movie
too.
One of the, you know, aftereveryone, after Samir and
Michael Bolton get laid off,Peter's like, I have a present
for you.
So they, he takes'em to like apark or the woods or somewhere
and unloads that broken printerand just lets them have at it.
(26:15):
I mean, like, that's such aiconic point, you know?
And I think too, when I firstwatched it, I was like, I don't
understand this movie.
I don't understand like the, thefeeling of hating a object like
that so much, you know, again,from working in offices.
Post that movie, I do rememberthe disdain of like, ah, the
printer's jammed, or this orthat, or, you know, just, So,
(26:36):
yeah, that was like a, you know,just them getting so angry.
The two of them just wanted to,beat it up with a baseball bat
or punch it
tanya (26:43):
Yeah, Michael Bolton keeps going after it.
'cause he is just, so, it's likewhat it represents, like all the
frustration of things just notworking in such a dysfunctional
environment.
It's so symbolic that's prettyhilarious now.
Looking at it.
that is a very iconic scene.
So, let's go to our challengequestion.
Our fun challenge question.
The question, if you were to beset for life with your bills,
(27:05):
but you had to have a job, whatwould you wanna do?
Erin (27:08):
if I was set for my bills and I could do anything I
wanted, I think I would justlike to.
Figure out how to do like art,like, you know, just do art
really well and have that as myhobby or career, maybe write a
book.
You know, everyone always saysthey wanna write a book, but if
you didn't have to work and youcould just have all the time,
you could take the classes onhow to write a book.
(27:28):
You'd have the money to have areally good editor.
I'd wanna do that.
just work on different crafts.
They're very.
Isolating.
But if I had all the money inthe world, I could travel and do
other things and wouldn't haveto worry about finances.
I could take all the classes soI could be with people, you
know, whether it's certificationor just learning things, maybe
be a therapist, part time, Teacha class or be the person that
(27:51):
goes into businesses.
As a consultant, maybe I'dbecome a consultant, you know,
might be one of the Bobs.
Yeah, maybe I'd become a bobbecause I wouldn't really have
to worry about the day-to-day,Monday through Friday therapy, I
remember having some consultantsand I was like, oh, they're kind
of fun.
They're doing like team buildingand they're doing, you know,
find out your Myers-Briggs anddoing different things.
I think that could be fine.
(28:11):
Like the occupational,Consultants.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Like an io type of person.
Yeah.
I think that I'm industrialorganizational therapist.
I think that could be fun.
tanya (28:20):
Oh, that's what, I meant organizational therapist, not
occupational.
Erin (28:22):
know what, I knew what you meant.
I knew what you meant.
You got me.
tanya (28:24):
Yeah.
that's so funny.
I would say almost the exactsame thing, because I was
thinking that I would love tojust be able to write and travel
and have the free time to go andenjoy and absorb, so I could
engage in creative pursuits thatI try now, but it's tough
because we have this.
Schedule, Of work like everybodydoes, everybody that needs to
work I would love to paint andwrite and travel, but I also
(28:48):
think I would like to continuetherapy as well I think I would
definitely reduce my schedule.
I do think maybe I would havesome therapy groups Something
where I could be more creativein it if I had the time to set
it up, I think that would befun.
Erin (29:01):
And maybe that's would be more fun than doing a
consultant.
'cause I think I would like tostill, I like the idea of like,
hey.
Let's, you know, have a yogainstructor do something, then
we'll do this.
tanya (29:12):
You know,
Erin (29:12):
incorporate, or, I'll just do therapy
tanya (29:15):
or have a multidisciplinary therapy center
where you could have differentgroups it doesn't have to be
one-on-one therapy, it could beyoga or expressive arts and
stuff like that.
Creative kind of, that would bereally
Erin (29:25):
Yeah.
And then have so much money, youdon't have to worry about the
lease or the rent or having ownin the building.
tanya (29:30):
Yeah.
it could be like a slidingscale.
You don't have to worry aboutthat, What can you bring in your
nonprofit into this?
Yeah.
That's perfect.
I think that would be reallyawesome.
I also think maybe doing somework with animals too, like just
because I love animals and Metoo.
I think that would be somethinglike that.
there'd be a lot of differentthings Maybe not have as a set
job, but I would do a lot ofthose things I don't know if I
(29:52):
actually would.
I would like that in my mind.
Erin (29:53):
Have some rescue something, Or just figure out.
'cause I always like that, likewhen you think of Martha
Stewart, she has all thesehorses and dogs and cats she has
all the money and, hobbies too.
It seems like she's doing somepainting, or gardening, cooking,
sewing.
So something like that, butmaybe not to that scale.
tanya (30:09):
Yeah.
I would just like to do moreexpressive arts and stuff and
Cooking and things like that.
Gardening is not really myrealm, but my husband could have
fun and my in-laws, you know,'cause they like to do that
stuff.
I like the results of it.
Erin (30:22):
Yeah.
I like gardening and the weedingand the trimming and stuff like
that.
Yeah, but I would like to learnmore like art.
Art,
tanya (30:30):
like expressive arts.
Erin (30:31):
so maybe we can open a center together.
We'd be on the same track.
we could open up a centertogether and Yeah.
I like that.
we would have it in Florida andmass, and we could just do like
the whole east coast.
We would just have a bunch ofcenter.
Yeah.
Just
tanya (30:43):
And then maybe we pick somewhere out.
Easter International if we'refeeling, extra ambitious.
And then we can have
Erin (30:47):
like a one room that's just our studio for when we
record our podcast.
So yes, there you go.
And beds for Paige and LucyPaige is next to me now.
tanya (30:57):
I think she just woke up.
she looks confused.
So she is like,
Erin (31:00):
what?
Yeah,
tanya (31:00):
I think I heard my name.
Yeah.
Erin (31:02):
Well, yeah, she has her hearing back.
I don't know if I told you that,
tanya (31:05):
Okay.
Erin (31:05):
those of you that might not know Paige went deaf, in
September from a really bad earinfection and some medication.
So we've noticed she's beenhearing her name.
She's been coming when she'scalled.
So that's been happening in thepast couple weeks.
it's really exciting.
That is awesome.
Well, good.
tanya (31:21):
we're very happy for Paige.
yeah, she went through a lot andshe's our little mascot dog.
Yeah.
Our little old lady.
Yeah.
But yeah, so let us know whatyou think.
any suggestions for futureepisodes, anything in general.
We'd love to hear from you.
We're on all socials.
you can find us anywhere.
Send us a message and we willget back to you.
(31:42):
thanks for tuning in.
and don't forget, stay wickedand keep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
Bye bye guys.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday to the Wicked
Psychotherapist Podcast.
Be sure to like and follow us onApple, Spotify, and Amazon, or
(32:06):
wherever else you listen to yourpodcasts.
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