August 20, 2025 • 33 mins
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Dive into the captivating world of the Balloon Boy Hoax with Tanya and Erin.
In this episode, they unravel the layers of this sensational event that gripped global audiences in 2009.
Explore the Heaney family's eccentric dynamics, the media's role in amplifying the story, and the lasting impact of this bizarre incident. Perfect for true crime enthusiasts and anyone curious about one of the most talked-about hoaxes of the decade.
Tune in for a blend of insightful analysis and engaging storytelling
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
(00:31):
Hey guys, this is Tanya.
Hi, it's Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
Yeah, welcome.
So we are steering sharply offcourse from our Adam verse this
week.
So we will be visiting just awhole new realm.
I don't even know what categorythis is in, honestly.
Yeah.
Um, maybe sensationalism orsomething, I don't know.
(00:52):
But we're gonna be looking atthe Netflix, almost at HBO, the
Netflix series train wrecked.
Um, if you've heard of it, ithas like different stories of
different kind of sensationalevents that happened and the one
we're focusing on today isBalloon Boy.
So Yeah, because we thought thatsome things to discuss in there.
(01:14):
It's an interesting story, so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny'cause we, we, it'sgonna say it's funny'cause we
both saw it and we're like,okay, remember when this
happened?
That kind of get got us off ofthe atom.
Train for a minute on this.
Yeah, we kind of started justchatting about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this, this happened back in2009, so it was a while ago, and
(01:36):
we, we both remembered when it,when it happened and it was big
news.
but if you are not familiar withthis, uh, you know, we'll just
give a little brief background.
Mm-hmm.
so there was a family, the Henifamily, made up of Richard, the
father.
I think his name is Richard.
Oh man, Richard.
I know that the wife's name isMayumi.
(01:57):
I remember MA's name.
I don't remember his name.
I think it's Richard.
I don't know.
I tried looking it up.
I couldn't find it.
So yeah, for some reason I'mthinking Richard, I guess he's
just gonna be called Richard inthis.
I don't know.
But the dad, he's veryeccentric, Mayumi and like, they
kind of seem to be.
On the same wavelength withtheir parenting.
They have three young boys atthis time, 2009, Brad Rio and
(02:19):
Falcon.
Falcon, which Falcon is, plays abig part.
He's the, the youngest one.
Um, he's about six at this time.
And so I guess Dad, is he, hehas appeared on.
Wife swap a couple of times,which we can talk about a little
bit later.
But he's, he's kind of known tobe a very eccentric character.
(02:40):
He's got very strong opinions.
The way he expresses himself iskind of unique.
How, how would you, how wouldyou characterize the dad and I
keep saying the dad'cause Icannot remember his name.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think he is, heseems kind of, I don't know, I
was gonna say flamboyant overthe top.
'cause he just, like, hisemotions are just.
(03:00):
Out there.
He's like very excited, veryangry, very, you know, I don't
know.
I don't know if it's because heis an inventor, so he's just
kind of just with his thoughts alot.
It's that he just spurts stuffout.
But yeah, he just seems kind ofa little wild.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's kind of got the mad geniusthing going on, like he's
(03:22):
eccentric.
But he, he also is, you know,has three young kids and he
doesn't give the best impressionthat he maybe is, um,
considerate to their needs, Iguess is the nicest way to put
that.
He does yell a lot.
Again, this is all on tv.
I don't know if this is likesensationalism.
That was kind of that time andwhen he was on wife swap or he
(03:45):
had a lot of things he was knownfor then too.
But basically the dad was, andthe kids,'cause he involves the
kids in a lot of theseexperiments and kind of things
that he likes to build.
He's really good at, you know,engineering and kind of
understanding that stuff.
Building stuff.
He's building this like balloontype structure.
I don't know any other way toput it.
Uh, looks kind of like a UFObig, silver, shiny thing that
(04:08):
looks like a flying saucer, likethe old Jiffy Pops.
And that's supposed to be likemoved by the wind.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, a Jiffy Pop.
It does.
Yeah, it totally, oh my God.
That's exactly what it remindsme of.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Yeah, I thought about that in awhile.
Do they still make Jiffy Pop?
I saw it in the grocery storenot too long ago.
(04:29):
I used to love it.
Just.
All right.
Still, we're gonna go back andforth.
Mm-hmm.
And then it starts popping andit just so exciting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, and then just seeing itpop and, or like get, you know,
bigger, like and inflate andeverything.
Yeah.
Totally.
Is a Jiffy Pop balloon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great way to describeit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(04:50):
And so they're, they're, they'rebuilding this, they're kind of
in the backyard.
The, the oldest son is, isrecording this kind of what
they're doing.
And I guess there is a momentwhen, you know, the, the balloon
is, is supposed to be tethered.
The youngest son, Falcon,apparently was kind of playing
around in it and at some randommoment the balloon just kind of
(05:11):
takes off into the wind.
And the older son is like, Ithink Falcon was in there.
Mm-hmm.
Like he was in there because hesaw him playing.
Yeah.
Because they couldn't find him.
They couldn't find him afterthey're like Falcon Falcon and
it's on the video.
At first, they're just laughingand then they, I think they
realize like, is he really stuckinside there?
(05:32):
What are we gonna do?
Yeah.
And this, this is kind of hardto explain visually because
it's, it is, like erin said, theJiffy Pop top, and then there's
kind of this little stump kindof at the bottom where
apparently there's a littleopening where somebody or
something could go in, like asmall child.
Yeah.
But this door is not verysecure.
(05:52):
So if he were up in, in there.
It was kind of, there's no wayto kind of re tether it down.
There's nothing like digital tobring it down.
It's very much just controlledby the wind and it starts to
blow.
It ended up blowing 50 miles offcourse and when they, you know,
the parents start to to panic,the dad yells at the mom and
blames her.
(06:12):
You know, and says somethinglike, you know, this is your
fault or something.
And really it just kind of, somefreak thing happened where it
just kind of untethered itself.
I don't, I don't knows a big, ifthey still even know what
happened.
Yeah, it looked like,'causethey're in Colorado and I think
there was just like a really bigwind gust when it, when it
happened.
But yeah, I mean, it, it, Idon't know, watching and again,
it looked, to me, it looked likeit was an accident, but I don't,
(06:35):
it didn't, but who knows?
From that point, it looked likean accident to me.
It didn't look like he wastrying to seek attention or, you
know, you know, at least likefrom, you know, I remember too
watching it in 2009 and thinkinglike, what the heck is
happening?
Is this real?
Is this, you know, like, right.
(06:55):
Yeah.
Like, what the heck is whathappened here?
Yeah.
No, I agree with you.
I, I, to me, it kind of justfelt like it was something went
wrong and maybe.
Yeah, since they couldn't findhim.
And then the, the older brotherwas like, well, I think I saw
him playing around there.
I mean, why wouldn't you bescared about that?
And mm-hmm.
You know, so they, they calledup, you know, the, I don't know,
(07:17):
rescue Emergency Services and Iguess the National Guard got
involved.
The media caught wind of this.
This was global news, if youremember that.
You know, it was everywhere,everywhere as they were watching
this balloon thinking like, ohmy God, did something fall out?
Is this boy gonna fall up?
Because it's just, it's not asecure place and the winds are
whipping him around and he's,he's high, high up there.
(07:39):
He is not like, you know, if hefell out, he, he'd be very
injured.
If not, maybe, you know, kindof, he might be killed, you
know, and mm-hmm.
So.
It was like everybody was insuspense.
They didn't know, they stillcouldn't find a falcon, you
know?
And so there's just this mediauproar of like, oh my gosh, what
happened?
How could this happen?
Like, what if this kid feltlike, what are we gonna find in
(08:00):
the balloon?
Is, is this kid gonna be okay?
Is he gonna be like just forevertraumatized or is he somewhere,
you know, lying dead somewhere?
You know?
Yeah.
Like and people were just by it.
Yeah.
'cause there was one point,there was a point when they were
filming the.
Balloon thing, you could seesomething fall out of the
(08:21):
balloon.
And so they, that's when they'relike, oh no.
You know, like, is it, is it theboy?
What happened?
So yeah.
When they finally got theballoon down, they couldn't find
him.
Yeah.
And they, they, they chased itdown.
I guess the, the media chased itdown.
The rescue services NationalGuard chased it down when they
got there.
There was no boy.
(08:41):
In there and you know, that kindof doesn't really tell them
anything other than maybe hefell out already.
Mm-hmm.
Or like, what the heck's goingon here, seemingly.
I mean, the family seemed to befreaking out, you know?
And Yeah, as I think any parentwould.
But then shortly thereafter,Falcon appears at the house and
is like, what's going on?
Yeah.
(09:01):
He just walks like tired, like,just like he just woke up or
something.
Just like, why is there allthese people?
Why?
Why is everyone here?
What's going on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which I think there was someinterview with Mayumi where she
was like, oh my gosh, you're,you're okay.
You're okay.
Like, she was relieved, youknow?
She wasn't, yeah.
It seemed pretty, it seemedgenuine to me.
(09:22):
I don't know.
I, I, I didn't get the sense, Iknow this is labeled as the hoax
or whatever, but I, I don'tknow.
I don't know that I'm sold onthat.
No, I don't.
I'm not either, because that'swhat I mean, like, it's, it's
hard because you're, it's easyto be like, oh my gosh, this
guy's a, you know, like.
Narcissistic something justwants to be in the spotlight.
And you know, it's all abouthim.
(09:43):
Look at, look at the damage hedid to his family and he put his
family at risk.
And, but also I'm seeing as thislittle five or 6-year-old little
boy was just playing hiding.
He said, I fell asleep in theattic or whatever.
And I could see that reallyhappening.
And I also could see the otherbrother freaking out because he
saw him playing in the balloonearlier and not really knowing.
(10:06):
If he's in the balloon or not.
And it is pretty chaotic.
Like when the balloon goes up,it's flying away.
They're like, oh my gosh, whatare we gonna, how are we gonna
get this?
And then they're like, oh,where's Falcon?
A lot of chaos and And then alsoit probably made them feel like
he was in there even morebecause the police came and
(10:26):
searched the house and no onefound him.
That's right.
They did do a search.
Yeah.
Because he was in this kind oflike.
I guess it was like a crawlspace kind of attic, like in the
garage or something.
It was kind of hard, like theydidn't really, like, the parents
didn't, didn't know that theyeven went up there, they said,
and I don't think it was like acommon space for him, even
though he said he had been therea couple times before.
(10:47):
I think it was maybe just like agetaway from having a couple
brothers and just like, he waslike, I can go nap here or
something.
Um.
Right.
Which sounds pretty reasonable.
I mean, I dunno, to me, I waskind of like, yeah, I could kind
of see that.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
So I, and I, I know, I know, Iknow.
I used to have a, like when Iwas younger, I had a entrance
(11:09):
into the attic from my bedroom,like through my closet, and I
would hang out.
I'd play in the, it's probablyso bad, but I'd play inside the,
like the little attic crawlspacearea.
I'd put like my dolls andwhatever.
That was your, that was yourhiding spot.
Privacy.
That was my hiding spot.
Your privacy.
With all the, um, insulation,but I could see it.
(11:30):
I do you feel like, you know,that is plausible.
Yeah.
You know, I, I actually, youknow, I didn't like, there was
an attic that we had that waslike always super, super hot in
the summer because it just had,you know, that like pink cotton
candy, styrofoam.
Yeah.
Or not styrofoam, um,insulation.
(11:52):
And I, I do remember going upthere and just kind of playing,
but like, kind of being like,okay, there's, there's, it's so
hot up here.
I couldn't really stay up there,but you know, it was a place I
would go or like, I'd go with acouple of my sisters and we'd
just kind of go and, I don'tknow, just to get away.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah, it's, it's definitelycould be.
It definitely I could see that.
Mm-hmm.
(12:12):
There's some background and somecontext to this as to why I
think maybe this wasn't socredible because of Richard
Haney's character, I guessmaybe, and he, so just kind of
going back, he, he started outway before this.
He, he wanted to be a, a standupcomic, an actor, and he, he kind
of failed at that.
(12:32):
He wasn't able to to meet thator whatever.
So that was kind of his.
Intended career path or maybehis desire at one point.
And so there's, there's kind ofthat point, right?
And then he got into designingthings, making things, building
things, and storm chasing.
Um, and he's, he kind of, youknow, was showing this eccentric
side of himself because heappeared on the show wife swap a
(12:55):
couple of times and he, heshowed himself to kind of have,
and who knows how much of thiswas scripted or sensationalized
for him to kind of getattention.
But he would say things like,oh, women, you know, past the
age of 25, there's, it's allmentally downhill, you know, and
he would kind of have like hisown charms, but he just was not
very likable.
(13:18):
Yeah.
You know, various points.
Um, you know, and, and the kidswere in the wife swap were
portrayed as like not having anytype of structure and we're kind
of feral acting and mm-hmm.
Yeah, and it was kind of like,you know, he really valued
spontaneity and curiosity, whichI think is really cool.
But he'd also put the kids inpossible danger by take, taking
them outta school and takingthem storm chasing.
(13:40):
Right.
Really close to it.
The wife Mayumi seemed to bekind of just on board with these
things, you know, it kind ofseemed like they may be, you
know, this was what she likedor.
I don't know.
I mean, that's, she seemed tojust kind of be like, yeah, this
is a fun ride kind of thing.
Don't you like this boys?
And mm-hmm.
Sounds like she had some of thesame values as him.
(14:00):
So, you know, and, and somepeople question, was he acting
this extreme way to try and gethis own show?
Apparently he did actually havea deal to have a, a show of his
own, but when the, the, thequote unquote hoax popped up,
they canceled it.
So, was the show gonna be basedon the balloon thing or was it
(14:21):
on after the wife swap?
It was, it was after wife swap.
It was, it was before, it was inthe works before the, the, the
incident.
So it wasn't about the, theballoon thing, but it was
something about his, I think itwas called like sci files or
something like that.
It was about his like belief inscience and kind of like.
You know, or like, kind of otherworldly type things.
(14:42):
And probably like bringing outhis, his, you know, out there
fringe beliefs at the time.
Right.
Um, but they canceled it when,because he got, he got charged,
he and his wife got chargedafter this.
'cause the, you know, officialsfound this to be a hoax had done
this Yeah.
Intentionally and well then alsothat makes you, you, that makes
you question too, like, so whywould he jeopardize.
(15:06):
His possible TV show for thishoax.
Yeah.
If he was already going to getpublicity and fame from the
sci-fi show or whatever it was.
Right.
Yeah.
That's kind of what I didn't, Ididn't really understand, you
know, when I, I kind of learnedabout that.
'cause I don't think I knewthat, but I read about that just
(15:27):
recently and I was like, oh,that doesn't really make sense.
You know, like, why would he?
Yeah.
Or maybe he thought this woulddrum up some publicity or
something like that.
Maybe that's how it was kind ofrationalized, but it just went
awry.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But it, its sci-fi ish.
Yeah, it looks like a spaceship.
Yeah.
And like a little boy trapped inthere.
(15:48):
But I don't really know how thatreally helps with any, you know
what I mean?
Like, I don't know.
I, yeah, I don't know.
Um, and, and, you know, he is,he is a, a wild character.
He is very out there.
Yeah.
Uh, the things he says, whoknows how much of that is a
character, you know, because he,he does have a base in acting,
you know, and, and yeah, thiswas around the time, you know,
you had pointed out when thingswere kind of going viral, you
(16:09):
know, and YouTube and thingslike that.
So, yeah, I don't know.
But they, officials were like,pretty convinced that this was
something that was set upbecause I think just because of
what they, whatever they saw orwhatever they understood.
And also when there wereinterviews being given after the
fact, you know, with the wholefamily, they, somebody asked the
(16:33):
question of the little boyfalcon, like, oh, why did you,
you know, why did you decide tocome out from like your, your
hiding space or whatever?
Why didn't you come out with allthe fuss and everything?
And he was like, well, they saidit was because of the show.
Yeah.
And people interpreted that tomean like, oh, because we wanted
a reality show, but.
(16:54):
I think Richard explained later,or was explained later, that he
may, Falcon may have like, kindof seen all this, like media all
of a sudden he woke up and Yeah.
You know, maybe he felt like,oh, I have to get out there.
Somebody said like, oh, yougotta, you gotta come out and,
and talk to them now.
You know, like mm-hmm.
Like to the show, the mediaRight.
Kind of thing.
Yeah.
(17:14):
And that, that does make senseto me.
Mm-hmm.
I don't, I don't know.
I, I kind of don't love being onthe side of someone like this
guy, but I don't really actuallyknow him either.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, it's hard because youwanna, you kind of wanna dislike
him because he is so arrogantand he's so kind of, again, out
there and it is very easy forpeople to be like, oh yeah, he's
(17:36):
just, you know, this or that,or, you know, look at all the
harm he's doing for his family.
But yeah, I mean, I don't thinkthat.
They, the kids were like thebest behaved and probably due to
parenting, you know, theirparenting practice, whatever
type of parenting style theyused.
And I know it's been dubbed ahoax, but part of me, I don't
know, it's, it's, it's hard forme, but I do kind of believe
(17:59):
that it wasn't fully a hoax.
Yeah.
I, I'm, I'm with you.
I don't, I, I just don't, I feellike I don't, I know this is my
true crime brain coming out, butlike, I don't, I don't really.
See enough evidence, I don't, Idon't know.
It just doesn't really add upunless there's something I
don't, I don't know about thatwasn't in these documentaries.
Yeah.
And these other clips and thingsthat I read about, which is
(18:19):
definitely possible.
I mean, I didn't, I didn't.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
And there could have been also,'cause there were, there were
interviews from the neighborsand you know, I'm sure other
people probably saw theirbehavior or lack of behavior or.
Their reactions, you know?
So, and that also was probablylike, oh yeah, this isn't really
adding up.
(18:39):
It doesn't seem real.
And yeah.
Yeah.
It may be a case of preconceivednotions.
Right.
You know, that mm-hmm.
If he, they didn't appear to besuper structured and not like,
maybe responsible in somepeople's eyes, maybe they
thought, oh, well they would dothis, so they did do this.
You know?
Yeah.
That can, that can kind of shapepeople's opinions too.
Yeah.
They don't have, they don'treally have a good.
(19:02):
Way to take care of their kidsor to make sure they're not in,
um, you know, to make sure thatthey're safe.
So, yeah.
So they would more likely dothis or they would use their
kids to get famous, you know, ina sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and, you know, um, hispersonality, uh, being kind of
(19:24):
egocentric and mm-hmm.
The way he.
He portrays himself, it kind offits and, and we had also talked
about, you know, when theybrought up charges.
There was another, there wassome kind of, you know, leverage
that they held over him becausethey were like, oh, well if you
don't plead guilty to this, thiswas, this.
I don't know, I don't know ifthis was official, this is just
(19:45):
what was said by in thedocumentary himself.
Yeah.
Um, you know, that he said,well, if they basically
indicated if we didn't, if hedidn't say he was guilty, then
they were, they were gonna like,possibly look at deporting
mayumi, you know, and so,mm-hmm.
Yeah, there was some of that inthere.
And so maybe'cause people werelike, oh, why did he plead
guilty then?
And maybe, maybe that was why,you know, because maybe he
(20:08):
didn't want his wife to bedeported, his family to be
broken up.
And, um, and he got charged, Ithink he, you know, for, we
don't like 90 days or somethingin jail.
Mm-hmm.
She had kind of the, the.
Report to jail, like on theweekends kind of thing, because
she's the primary caregiver, youknow, for a certain amount of
time.
So they were, they were chargedwith this.
(20:28):
So I guess in the eyes of, ofeverybody else looking back on
that, they just think like,well, they're guilty, but, I
dunno, were they, I don't know.
Yeah, if they really, if youthought your kid was in that
balloon, wouldn't I would, Iwould call up.
People, everyone be like, Hey,can you help me?
Like National Guard?
Sure.
I'll take'em.
You know, because if you reallythink that, is that really a
crime if you really did believethat?
(20:51):
I don't know.
And I, I'm not, yeah, I'm justnot convinced.
I'm not convinced.
I don't know.
And you know, in the documentarythey did.
Follow them to I, I was kind ofhoping we were saying this.
I was kinda hoping there'd bemore on the kids, like, what,
where are they at?
Kind of thing.
But they didn't really, yeah.
Where are they now?
Yeah, they just, yeah, they justinterviewed like the one, it
seemed like Falcon, he seemed tobe the only one that was
(21:13):
talking, and it seemed like heput a lot of pressure on himself
too.
Like where he is like, oh, wellI guess it's, you know, like
there's one point where youcould tell he kind of blames
himself for all of this.
Mm.
But then he is thin and he alsosaid, but I was only six.
So, yeah.
And, and if he, if that's reallywhat happened, if he was just
sleeping up in the, I mean, how,what was he supposed to do?
(21:34):
He didn't know what was goingon.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like he didn'trealize, um, it's not like he
was sitting there just giggling,you know, or, or whatever.
And honestly, even if he was, hewas still only six and didn't
realize the gravity of it, youknow, so.
Mm-hmm.
But that doesn't sound likethat's what happened.
Yeah, so I think the, thedocumentary doesn't really have
(21:54):
an an opinion.
It's kind of neutral.
It's kind of just presentingthese things and kind of being
like, look at these things.
Look at where they're now kindof thing, you know, like a
little bit at the end.
And it was, it was a little moreneutral.
Whereas some documentaries thatI've, I've seen, you know,
otherwise can be very much, youcan tell which side they're kind
of leaning on.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so I think it was more inthe neutral kind of, kind of,
(22:17):
yeah.
You know, stance.
Yeah.
And it, it, it really was, youknow what really was so
fascinating about this case, andI, I, like, I was, I was saying
this to erin,'cause we talkabout this before, is I didn't
really understand why it wassuch a, it was global.
Mm-hmm.
Global news.
I mean, it was like jokes arebeing made a late night shows
like everybody knew balloon boy,balloon boy.
(22:37):
That became like a moniker, youknow, like just everywhere.
Everywhere.
And, um.
I think the general consensuswas that, wow, this guy just
faked it.
Like, and that's it.
We're just gonna keep going withthat.
Right.
But if you think about it, Imean, I was reading a few
articles that were like, Hey,you know, the media actually,
you know, I know that thishappened so quickly, but they
kind of sensationalized it aswell too.
(22:57):
And they didn't necessarily vetall their sources when they put
it everywhere.
You know, and why were we sofascinated with it and mm-hmm.
You know, kind of that type oflens, I guess, on it too.
So.
Yeah, there's, there's thosethings to consider.
Also, it's not just, I mean,there's, there was a reason why
it was global because peoplewere like, wow, that's really
weird, you know?
(23:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, and the fact thatsay this, this was, this
happened to be something thatwas planned.
You know, the fact that this wassomething that, you know, I, the
father, Richard, he did use, if,if in this scenario, if this was
planned, that he would've usedthe.
Sympathy from like, oh my gosh,my son could die, kind of thing.
(23:40):
And the fact that he, but hedidn't.
He didn't put him in there.
Right.
You know, he didn't likeactually test this out.
I'm not saying that that wouldbe right, but I mean Right.
He wasn't looking to harm hisson.
But at the same point, thatwould've been really wrong to
have used that.
Right.
But I dunno, I think you and Iare on the same page when we
just sing.
Yeah, it doesn't seem to, Idon't know.
(24:01):
You see the video before when itwas released?
It did, yeah.
It seemed very, yeah.
Genuine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was hard to tell.
I mean, I know looking at itback, you're like, oh my gosh,
this family, they did it.
They, you know, but, and it isreally easy to look at him and
think like, oh yeah, he'ssomething, you know, he, he
(24:22):
definitely seems like the typethat would want the attention,
but.
It is really hard to, I don'tknow.
I, I have a hard time to fullybelieve that it's 100% a hoax.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
I just don't think there'senough, again, unless we're
missing something and I reallydon't, I really don't know what,
what evidence they had toconvict.
(24:43):
I, I don't understand what theyhad, because that would've been
hard to prove, I think.
Right.
But somehow.
They did.
So I, I don't know.
I'm just thinking like from alegal aspect, that just is a
little bizarre to me.
Yeah.
And at the end of thedocumentary, there was a hint,
which this didn't really helphis case too much, but he did
(25:04):
hint at like.
There might be something in theworks, like something seeing me
soon kind of thing.
Richard had said that, but Idon't know, maybe that's just
because it is, you know, likemaybe he's just a very, he's
someone who likes to share a lotof things, you know, his
eccentric style, and maybe he'sjust always attracted to like TV
because of that, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean he
would put on a whole hoax to getthere, right?
(25:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
So.
And to be honest, I wonder, I'mcurious if they have like a
YouTube channel or if they, youknow, have Instagram, because
that would be like the perfectway mm-hmm.
For them to, if, if he wasreally into this or to just
showcase some of these things.
Like now it's like everywhere,you know?
Mm-hmm.
Like back then it, it wouldn'thave been as much.
That's true.
So I'm kind of curious if hedoes or if maybe if he's not
(25:50):
like.
Maybe he's not that interestedin this.
Maybe he just really is kind offascinated by this stuff.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, he's a little bit of astumper for me, but I'm, I'm
curious to what he comes up withnext.
Yeah.
I, I really don't know.
I think this just kind of leftus a little bit, you know, of
wondering, like, we don't reallyknow, and I, I don't know why
(26:12):
it, it is, it was able to becalled a hoax so quickly and how
it was prosecuted.
I don't get it.
But I don't know.
Tell us what you think becausewe, you, you, you know, if
you're of a certain age, youprobably, you remember this or
you've definitely heard aboutit, mentioned in Right.
In certain references, likecultural references.
(26:33):
It was just in the zeitgeist.
It was everywhere.
And I mean, it, it really issomething, I think that it's
like that moment in time peoplecan point to and be like, oh,
balloon boy.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know some other, yeah.
'cause yeah, it was like, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm trying to think of one.
Yeah, I don't know what else wasgoing on around that time, but
Yeah.
But it was kind of, yeah, but Imean, I was thinking of just
like in general, like otherpoints that we can reference and
(26:55):
I couldn't even think of anotherone.
Oh, like, like COVID, you know,like that happened.
We knew it was around, I mean,obviously that was a different
thing.
You know, like kind of thosethings that are like points in
our mind references that werelike, yeah, oh yeah, I remember
that.
The OJ Simpson trial.
You know?
Yeah.
Like that kind of Cato thing.
Yeah.
But, uh, yeah, so let us knowwhat, what you think.
(27:20):
If there's things that we, maybewe don't.
Maybe we're not understanding.
Yeah.
Maybe we're not seeing adifferent perspective or
different, you know, kind ofevidence or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
That maybe we, we just didn'treally look at, but that is our
opinion and we're sticking toit.
So that's what, that's what it'sabout.
We just thought this was kind ofinteresting.
A nice, nice little break.
You know, the, the train wreckseries is, is pretty cool.
(27:41):
Has some, some good ones thatmaybe we'll look at some in the
future.
I don't know.
Yeah, I think I'll, I think I,I'll skip the poop cruise.
I don't wanna see that one.
I did watch that one and thatone was interesting.
It was gross, but it wasinteresting.
But yeah.
So now for our challengequestion, this one's gonna be
probably a little, a littlerough.
(28:02):
So in terms of just kind ofmaking the choice, so speaking
of in the spirit of, of Bloom,boy, if you had the choice
between.
Say you had to, or let's justsay you were incentivized, like
you were offered a large amountof money.
Okay.
I don't know, 5 million or so todo one of the three things.
(28:25):
Which would you choose?
So balloon boy be, be in thatballoon, you know, in that
little hatch thing or whatever.
Okay.
You know, with the same safetyprotocols, right?
None.
Yeah.
Yep.
Skydiving.
Okay.
Or, um, let's say, uh, bungeejumping, would you, A, would you
(28:46):
accept the challenge and B, whatwould you choose?
Okay, so I don't think I doballoon boy, because there's no
safety.
Safety.
You would just kind of like,what?
I don't even know what you'dhold onto and then the door
would fall.
Yeah.
It just seem like there's muchin there.
Yeah.
Bungee jumping.
I don't know.
I always think of my uncle whenbungee jumping when I was
(29:09):
younger and he used to alwaysshow the same video from like a
fair, some fair in New York, butcarnival or something, I don't
know.
And skydiving, I don't know.
I always get worried, like youalways hear like the people
skydiving class or something.
Someone falls out.
I think of the choices, I'dprobably pick skydiving because
(29:29):
it's really scary, but.
You're with a, hopefully you'rewith somebody that knows what
they're doing.
It's all been checked and stufflike that.
And it's not scary, I don'tthink It's super scary the whole
time because then it's likeslows down and I think, you
know, I've never been, I knowyou've been right or you, but,
so I think I would probably doskydiving for the 5 million.
(29:53):
Yeah.
I, I would choose, I wouldchoose that again, I think.
Yeah, because I.
I actually do wanna go skydivingagain.
So I would, I would do it.
Yeah.
Like, and I really had a goodtime with it, the balloon boy
thing.
I agree with you.
That does not seem safe at all.
And you could just fly right outof there.
And knowing me, I would, andbungee jumping.
I used to think I wanted to dothat, but I'm, I'm kind of not,
(30:15):
I don't know.
Something is kind of, as I getolder and I'm not into it, so
Yeah.
Tied by your ankle, being tiedby your ankles or whatever they
do, it just doesn't seem fun.
You know?
It's just like, yeah.
And to me that's like jumpingoff a bridge.
You're just attached to a rope.
I don't know.
Yeah, I, I'm not gonna say Iwouldn't ever do that, but like
I, if I had the choice, I woulddefinitely choose skydiving.
Yeah.
'cause it was fun.
(30:35):
It was very, very fun.
You felt like you're flying.
So, and you definitely have tobe, if you haven't done a
certain amount of dives, youhave to be in tandem with
someone who is very experienced.
Like you have to be like,there's not really, as far as I
know, in, in most countries, youknow, that's kind of what it's
in the United States, so.
Yeah.
Well that is, so I guess thatwasn't really tough.
(30:56):
It was more just kind of likethinking about it.
Um, but, you know, kind oflittle, little adventure
question and, and the, the 5million doesn't hurt.
Right.
You know?
No.
Makes sense.
No, it kind of makes, makes it alittle bit easier too, to be
afraid because I didn't wannamake it a question like, oh, if
you had to do it.
'cause it's like, okay, in whatinstance would you have to do
that?
Yeah.
But um, right.
Yeah.
A little fun treat there, butyeah.
(31:18):
So that is balloon boy.
Let us know your take.
Let us know your answer to thechallenge question.
If you want.
Let us know any and all things.
Any questions?
Mm-hmm.
Any suggestions?
We love to hear it.
We are on all platforms,including YouTube.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so you can see my messyoffice right now because
something keeps zooming out withmy camera and I just don't care
(31:40):
to fix it anymore.
So, uh, yeah, but we will betaking a short break so we will
have some kind of oldies butgoodies, reruns for a few weeks.
Mm-hmm.
I will be motorcycling aroundEurope and during this heat wave
and, but I am very, very excitedfor that and that should be fun.
Yeah.
(32:00):
So.
Yeah.
And yeah.
So yeah, I think we'll be back.
Yeah.
And I'll be, um, I'll beradioactive during that time.
I'll be getting And erin will beradioactive.
Yeah.
I'll be getting, um, radiationfor my thyroid.
So we'll be back.
Yeah.
I think like September.
But I'll have stuff released.
We'll release stuff in between,you know, you'll some oldies,
(32:21):
like Tanya said, some oldies.
What oldies, what goodies, uh,reruns.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Things that maybe are kind of,you know, trending for this time
of year that we think you mightenjoy to, to hear again.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, um, we hope you have agood rest of the summer.
I mean, and still enjoylistening to us as well, um, you
know, in the, in the meantimewith our reruns.
(32:44):
But you take care and don'tforget, stay wicked and keep
your mind well.
All right.
Well talk to you soon.
All right.
Bye-bye.
Bye guys.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday to the Wicked
Psychotherapist Podcast.
(33:05):
Be sure to like and follow us onApple, Spotify, and Amazon, or
wherever else you listen to yourpodcasts.
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
(00:31):
Hey guys, this is Tanya.
Hi, it's Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
Yeah, welcome.
So we are steering sharply offcourse from our Adam verse this
week.
So we will be visiting just awhole new realm.
I don't even know what categorythis is in, honestly.
Yeah.
Um, maybe sensationalism orsomething, I don't know.
(00:52):
But we're gonna be looking atthe Netflix, almost at HBO, the
Netflix series train wrecked.
Um, if you've heard of it, ithas like different stories of
different kind of sensationalevents that happened and the one
we're focusing on today isBalloon Boy.
So Yeah, because we thought thatsome things to discuss in there.
(01:14):
It's an interesting story, so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny'cause we, we, it'sgonna say it's funny'cause we
both saw it and we're like,okay, remember when this
happened?
That kind of get got us off ofthe atom.
Train for a minute on this.
Yeah, we kind of started justchatting about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this, this happened back in2009, so it was a while ago, and
(01:36):
we, we both remembered when it,when it happened and it was big
news.
but if you are not familiar withthis, uh, you know, we'll just
give a little brief background.
Mm-hmm.
so there was a family, the Henifamily, made up of Richard, the
father.
I think his name is Richard.
Oh man, Richard.
I know that the wife's name isMayumi.
(01:57):
I remember MA's name.
I don't remember his name.
I think it's Richard.
I don't know.
I tried looking it up.
I couldn't find it.
So yeah, for some reason I'mthinking Richard, I guess he's
just gonna be called Richard inthis.
I don't know.
But the dad, he's veryeccentric, Mayumi and like, they
kind of seem to be.
On the same wavelength withtheir parenting.
They have three young boys atthis time, 2009, Brad Rio and
(02:19):
Falcon.
Falcon, which Falcon is, plays abig part.
He's the, the youngest one.
Um, he's about six at this time.
And so I guess Dad, is he, hehas appeared on.
Wife swap a couple of times,which we can talk about a little
bit later.
But he's, he's kind of known tobe a very eccentric character.
(02:40):
He's got very strong opinions.
The way he expresses himself iskind of unique.
How, how would you, how wouldyou characterize the dad and I
keep saying the dad'cause Icannot remember his name.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think he is, heseems kind of, I don't know, I
was gonna say flamboyant overthe top.
'cause he just, like, hisemotions are just.
(03:00):
Out there.
He's like very excited, veryangry, very, you know, I don't
know.
I don't know if it's because heis an inventor, so he's just
kind of just with his thoughts alot.
It's that he just spurts stuffout.
But yeah, he just seems kind ofa little wild.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's kind of got the mad geniusthing going on, like he's
(03:22):
eccentric.
But he, he also is, you know,has three young kids and he
doesn't give the best impressionthat he maybe is, um,
considerate to their needs, Iguess is the nicest way to put
that.
He does yell a lot.
Again, this is all on tv.
I don't know if this is likesensationalism.
That was kind of that time andwhen he was on wife swap or he
(03:45):
had a lot of things he was knownfor then too.
But basically the dad was, andthe kids,'cause he involves the
kids in a lot of theseexperiments and kind of things
that he likes to build.
He's really good at, you know,engineering and kind of
understanding that stuff.
Building stuff.
He's building this like balloontype structure.
I don't know any other way toput it.
Uh, looks kind of like a UFObig, silver, shiny thing that
(04:08):
looks like a flying saucer, likethe old Jiffy Pops.
And that's supposed to be likemoved by the wind.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, a Jiffy Pop.
It does.
Yeah, it totally, oh my God.
That's exactly what it remindsme of.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Yeah, I thought about that in awhile.
Do they still make Jiffy Pop?
I saw it in the grocery storenot too long ago.
(04:29):
I used to love it.
Just.
All right.
Still, we're gonna go back andforth.
Mm-hmm.
And then it starts popping andit just so exciting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, and then just seeing itpop and, or like get, you know,
bigger, like and inflate andeverything.
Yeah.
Totally.
Is a Jiffy Pop balloon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great way to describeit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(04:50):
And so they're, they're, they'rebuilding this, they're kind of
in the backyard.
The, the oldest son is, isrecording this kind of what
they're doing.
And I guess there is a momentwhen, you know, the, the balloon
is, is supposed to be tethered.
The youngest son, Falcon,apparently was kind of playing
around in it and at some randommoment the balloon just kind of
(05:11):
takes off into the wind.
And the older son is like, Ithink Falcon was in there.
Mm-hmm.
Like he was in there because hesaw him playing.
Yeah.
Because they couldn't find him.
They couldn't find him afterthey're like Falcon Falcon and
it's on the video.
At first, they're just laughingand then they, I think they
realize like, is he really stuckinside there?
(05:32):
What are we gonna do?
Yeah.
And this, this is kind of hardto explain visually because
it's, it is, like erin said, theJiffy Pop top, and then there's
kind of this little stump kindof at the bottom where
apparently there's a littleopening where somebody or
something could go in, like asmall child.
Yeah.
But this door is not verysecure.
(05:52):
So if he were up in, in there.
It was kind of, there's no wayto kind of re tether it down.
There's nothing like digital tobring it down.
It's very much just controlledby the wind and it starts to
blow.
It ended up blowing 50 miles offcourse and when they, you know,
the parents start to to panic,the dad yells at the mom and
blames her.
(06:12):
You know, and says somethinglike, you know, this is your
fault or something.
And really it just kind of, somefreak thing happened where it
just kind of untethered itself.
I don't, I don't knows a big, ifthey still even know what
happened.
Yeah, it looked like,'causethey're in Colorado and I think
there was just like a really bigwind gust when it, when it
happened.
But yeah, I mean, it, it, Idon't know, watching and again,
it looked, to me, it looked likeit was an accident, but I don't,
(06:35):
it didn't, but who knows?
From that point, it looked likean accident to me.
It didn't look like he wastrying to seek attention or, you
know, you know, at least likefrom, you know, I remember too
watching it in 2009 and thinkinglike, what the heck is
happening?
Is this real?
Is this, you know, like, right.
(06:55):
Yeah.
Like, what the heck is whathappened here?
Yeah.
No, I agree with you.
I, I, to me, it kind of justfelt like it was something went
wrong and maybe.
Yeah, since they couldn't findhim.
And then the, the older brotherwas like, well, I think I saw
him playing around there.
I mean, why wouldn't you bescared about that?
And mm-hmm.
You know, so they, they calledup, you know, the, I don't know,
(07:17):
rescue Emergency Services and Iguess the National Guard got
involved.
The media caught wind of this.
This was global news, if youremember that.
You know, it was everywhere,everywhere as they were watching
this balloon thinking like, ohmy God, did something fall out?
Is this boy gonna fall up?
Because it's just, it's not asecure place and the winds are
whipping him around and he's,he's high, high up there.
(07:39):
He is not like, you know, if hefell out, he, he'd be very
injured.
If not, maybe, you know, kindof, he might be killed, you
know, and mm-hmm.
So.
It was like everybody was insuspense.
They didn't know, they stillcouldn't find a falcon, you
know?
And so there's just this mediauproar of like, oh my gosh, what
happened?
How could this happen?
Like, what if this kid feltlike, what are we gonna find in
(08:00):
the balloon?
Is, is this kid gonna be okay?
Is he gonna be like just forevertraumatized or is he somewhere,
you know, lying dead somewhere?
You know?
Yeah.
Like and people were just by it.
Yeah.
'cause there was one point,there was a point when they were
filming the.
Balloon thing, you could seesomething fall out of the
(08:21):
balloon.
And so they, that's when they'relike, oh no.
You know, like, is it, is it theboy?
What happened?
So yeah.
When they finally got theballoon down, they couldn't find
him.
Yeah.
And they, they, they chased itdown.
I guess the, the media chased itdown.
The rescue services NationalGuard chased it down when they
got there.
There was no boy.
(08:41):
In there and you know, that kindof doesn't really tell them
anything other than maybe hefell out already.
Mm-hmm.
Or like, what the heck's goingon here, seemingly.
I mean, the family seemed to befreaking out, you know?
And Yeah, as I think any parentwould.
But then shortly thereafter,Falcon appears at the house and
is like, what's going on?
Yeah.
(09:01):
He just walks like tired, like,just like he just woke up or
something.
Just like, why is there allthese people?
Why?
Why is everyone here?
What's going on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which I think there was someinterview with Mayumi where she
was like, oh my gosh, you're,you're okay.
You're okay.
Like, she was relieved, youknow?
She wasn't, yeah.
It seemed pretty, it seemedgenuine to me.
(09:22):
I don't know.
I, I, I didn't get the sense, Iknow this is labeled as the hoax
or whatever, but I, I don'tknow.
I don't know that I'm sold onthat.
No, I don't.
I'm not either, because that'swhat I mean, like, it's, it's
hard because you're, it's easyto be like, oh my gosh, this
guy's a, you know, like.
Narcissistic something justwants to be in the spotlight.
And you know, it's all abouthim.
(09:43):
Look at, look at the damage hedid to his family and he put his
family at risk.
And, but also I'm seeing as thislittle five or 6-year-old little
boy was just playing hiding.
He said, I fell asleep in theattic or whatever.
And I could see that reallyhappening.
And I also could see the otherbrother freaking out because he
saw him playing in the balloonearlier and not really knowing.
(10:06):
If he's in the balloon or not.
And it is pretty chaotic.
Like when the balloon goes up,it's flying away.
They're like, oh my gosh, whatare we gonna, how are we gonna
get this?
And then they're like, oh,where's Falcon?
A lot of chaos and And then alsoit probably made them feel like
he was in there even morebecause the police came and
(10:26):
searched the house and no onefound him.
That's right.
They did do a search.
Yeah.
Because he was in this kind oflike.
I guess it was like a crawlspace kind of attic, like in the
garage or something.
It was kind of hard, like theydidn't really, like, the parents
didn't, didn't know that theyeven went up there, they said,
and I don't think it was like acommon space for him, even
though he said he had been therea couple times before.
(10:47):
I think it was maybe just like agetaway from having a couple
brothers and just like, he waslike, I can go nap here or
something.
Um.
Right.
Which sounds pretty reasonable.
I mean, I dunno, to me, I waskind of like, yeah, I could kind
of see that.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
So I, and I, I know, I know, Iknow.
I used to have a, like when Iwas younger, I had a entrance
(11:09):
into the attic from my bedroom,like through my closet, and I
would hang out.
I'd play in the, it's probablyso bad, but I'd play inside the,
like the little attic crawlspacearea.
I'd put like my dolls andwhatever.
That was your, that was yourhiding spot.
Privacy.
That was my hiding spot.
Your privacy.
With all the, um, insulation,but I could see it.
(11:30):
I do you feel like, you know,that is plausible.
Yeah.
You know, I, I actually, youknow, I didn't like, there was
an attic that we had that waslike always super, super hot in
the summer because it just had,you know, that like pink cotton
candy, styrofoam.
Yeah.
Or not styrofoam, um,insulation.
(11:52):
And I, I do remember going upthere and just kind of playing,
but like, kind of being like,okay, there's, there's, it's so
hot up here.
I couldn't really stay up there,but you know, it was a place I
would go or like, I'd go with acouple of my sisters and we'd
just kind of go and, I don'tknow, just to get away.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah, it's, it's definitelycould be.
It definitely I could see that.
Mm-hmm.
(12:12):
There's some background and somecontext to this as to why I
think maybe this wasn't socredible because of Richard
Haney's character, I guessmaybe, and he, so just kind of
going back, he, he started outway before this.
He, he wanted to be a, a standupcomic, an actor, and he, he kind
of failed at that.
(12:32):
He wasn't able to to meet thator whatever.
So that was kind of his.
Intended career path or maybehis desire at one point.
And so there's, there's kind ofthat point, right?
And then he got into designingthings, making things, building
things, and storm chasing.
Um, and he's, he kind of, youknow, was showing this eccentric
side of himself because heappeared on the show wife swap a
(12:55):
couple of times and he, heshowed himself to kind of have,
and who knows how much of thiswas scripted or sensationalized
for him to kind of getattention.
But he would say things like,oh, women, you know, past the
age of 25, there's, it's allmentally downhill, you know, and
he would kind of have like hisown charms, but he just was not
very likable.
(13:18):
Yeah.
You know, various points.
Um, you know, and, and the kidswere in the wife swap were
portrayed as like not having anytype of structure and we're kind
of feral acting and mm-hmm.
Yeah, and it was kind of like,you know, he really valued
spontaneity and curiosity, whichI think is really cool.
But he'd also put the kids inpossible danger by take, taking
them outta school and takingthem storm chasing.
(13:40):
Right.
Really close to it.
The wife Mayumi seemed to bekind of just on board with these
things, you know, it kind ofseemed like they may be, you
know, this was what she likedor.
I don't know.
I mean, that's, she seemed tojust kind of be like, yeah, this
is a fun ride kind of thing.
Don't you like this boys?
And mm-hmm.
Sounds like she had some of thesame values as him.
(14:00):
So, you know, and, and somepeople question, was he acting
this extreme way to try and gethis own show?
Apparently he did actually havea deal to have a, a show of his
own, but when the, the, thequote unquote hoax popped up,
they canceled it.
So, was the show gonna be basedon the balloon thing or was it
(14:21):
on after the wife swap?
It was, it was after wife swap.
It was, it was before, it was inthe works before the, the, the
incident.
So it wasn't about the, theballoon thing, but it was
something about his, I think itwas called like sci files or
something like that.
It was about his like belief inscience and kind of like.
You know, or like, kind of otherworldly type things.
(14:42):
And probably like bringing outhis, his, you know, out there
fringe beliefs at the time.
Right.
Um, but they canceled it when,because he got, he got charged,
he and his wife got chargedafter this.
'cause the, you know, officialsfound this to be a hoax had done
this Yeah.
Intentionally and well then alsothat makes you, you, that makes
you question too, like, so whywould he jeopardize.
(15:06):
His possible TV show for thishoax.
Yeah.
If he was already going to getpublicity and fame from the
sci-fi show or whatever it was.
Right.
Yeah.
That's kind of what I didn't, Ididn't really understand, you
know, when I, I kind of learnedabout that.
'cause I don't think I knewthat, but I read about that just
(15:27):
recently and I was like, oh,that doesn't really make sense.
You know, like, why would he?
Yeah.
Or maybe he thought this woulddrum up some publicity or
something like that.
Maybe that's how it was kind ofrationalized, but it just went
awry.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But it, its sci-fi ish.
Yeah, it looks like a spaceship.
Yeah.
And like a little boy trapped inthere.
(15:48):
But I don't really know how thatreally helps with any, you know
what I mean?
Like, I don't know.
I, yeah, I don't know.
Um, and, and, you know, he is,he is a, a wild character.
He is very out there.
Yeah.
Uh, the things he says, whoknows how much of that is a
character, you know, because he,he does have a base in acting,
you know, and, and yeah, thiswas around the time, you know,
you had pointed out when thingswere kind of going viral, you
(16:09):
know, and YouTube and thingslike that.
So, yeah, I don't know.
But they, officials were like,pretty convinced that this was
something that was set upbecause I think just because of
what they, whatever they saw orwhatever they understood.
And also when there wereinterviews being given after the
fact, you know, with the wholefamily, they, somebody asked the
(16:33):
question of the little boyfalcon, like, oh, why did you,
you know, why did you decide tocome out from like your, your
hiding space or whatever?
Why didn't you come out with allthe fuss and everything?
And he was like, well, they saidit was because of the show.
Yeah.
And people interpreted that tomean like, oh, because we wanted
a reality show, but.
(16:54):
I think Richard explained later,or was explained later, that he
may, Falcon may have like, kindof seen all this, like media all
of a sudden he woke up and Yeah.
You know, maybe he felt like,oh, I have to get out there.
Somebody said like, oh, yougotta, you gotta come out and,
and talk to them now.
You know, like mm-hmm.
Like to the show, the mediaRight.
Kind of thing.
Yeah.
(17:14):
And that, that does make senseto me.
Mm-hmm.
I don't, I don't know.
I, I kind of don't love being onthe side of someone like this
guy, but I don't really actuallyknow him either.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, it's hard because youwanna, you kind of wanna dislike
him because he is so arrogantand he's so kind of, again, out
there and it is very easy forpeople to be like, oh yeah, he's
(17:36):
just, you know, this or that,or, you know, look at all the
harm he's doing for his family.
But yeah, I mean, I don't thinkthat.
They, the kids were like thebest behaved and probably due to
parenting, you know, theirparenting practice, whatever
type of parenting style theyused.
And I know it's been dubbed ahoax, but part of me, I don't
know, it's, it's, it's hard forme, but I do kind of believe
(17:59):
that it wasn't fully a hoax.
Yeah.
I, I'm, I'm with you.
I don't, I, I just don't, I feellike I don't, I know this is my
true crime brain coming out, butlike, I don't, I don't really.
See enough evidence, I don't, Idon't know.
It just doesn't really add upunless there's something I
don't, I don't know about thatwasn't in these documentaries.
Yeah.
And these other clips and thingsthat I read about, which is
(18:19):
definitely possible.
I mean, I didn't, I didn't.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
And there could have been also,'cause there were, there were
interviews from the neighborsand you know, I'm sure other
people probably saw theirbehavior or lack of behavior or.
Their reactions, you know?
So, and that also was probablylike, oh yeah, this isn't really
adding up.
(18:39):
It doesn't seem real.
And yeah.
Yeah.
It may be a case of preconceivednotions.
Right.
You know, that mm-hmm.
If he, they didn't appear to besuper structured and not like,
maybe responsible in somepeople's eyes, maybe they
thought, oh, well they would dothis, so they did do this.
You know?
Yeah.
That can, that can kind of shapepeople's opinions too.
Yeah.
They don't have, they don'treally have a good.
(19:02):
Way to take care of their kidsor to make sure they're not in,
um, you know, to make sure thatthey're safe.
So, yeah.
So they would more likely dothis or they would use their
kids to get famous, you know, ina sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and, you know, um, hispersonality, uh, being kind of
(19:24):
egocentric and mm-hmm.
The way he.
He portrays himself, it kind offits and, and we had also talked
about, you know, when theybrought up charges.
There was another, there wassome kind of, you know, leverage
that they held over him becausethey were like, oh, well if you
don't plead guilty to this, thiswas, this.
I don't know, I don't know ifthis was official, this is just
(19:45):
what was said by in thedocumentary himself.
Yeah.
Um, you know, that he said,well, if they basically
indicated if we didn't, if hedidn't say he was guilty, then
they were, they were gonna like,possibly look at deporting
mayumi, you know, and so,mm-hmm.
Yeah, there was some of that inthere.
And so maybe'cause people werelike, oh, why did he plead
guilty then?
And maybe, maybe that was why,you know, because maybe he
(20:08):
didn't want his wife to bedeported, his family to be
broken up.
And, um, and he got charged, Ithink he, you know, for, we
don't like 90 days or somethingin jail.
Mm-hmm.
She had kind of the, the.
Report to jail, like on theweekends kind of thing, because
she's the primary caregiver, youknow, for a certain amount of
time.
So they were, they were chargedwith this.
(20:28):
So I guess in the eyes of, ofeverybody else looking back on
that, they just think like,well, they're guilty, but, I
dunno, were they, I don't know.
Yeah, if they really, if youthought your kid was in that
balloon, wouldn't I would, Iwould call up.
People, everyone be like, Hey,can you help me?
Like National Guard?
Sure.
I'll take'em.
You know, because if you reallythink that, is that really a
crime if you really did believethat?
(20:51):
I don't know.
And I, I'm not, yeah, I'm justnot convinced.
I'm not convinced.
I don't know.
And you know, in the documentarythey did.
Follow them to I, I was kind ofhoping we were saying this.
I was kinda hoping there'd bemore on the kids, like, what,
where are they at?
Kind of thing.
But they didn't really, yeah.
Where are they now?
Yeah, they just, yeah, they justinterviewed like the one, it
seemed like Falcon, he seemed tobe the only one that was
(21:13):
talking, and it seemed like heput a lot of pressure on himself
too.
Like where he is like, oh, wellI guess it's, you know, like
there's one point where youcould tell he kind of blames
himself for all of this.
Mm.
But then he is thin and he alsosaid, but I was only six.
So, yeah.
And, and if he, if that's reallywhat happened, if he was just
sleeping up in the, I mean, how,what was he supposed to do?
(21:34):
He didn't know what was goingon.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like he didn'trealize, um, it's not like he
was sitting there just giggling,you know, or, or whatever.
And honestly, even if he was, hewas still only six and didn't
realize the gravity of it, youknow, so.
Mm-hmm.
But that doesn't sound likethat's what happened.
Yeah, so I think the, thedocumentary doesn't really have
(21:54):
an an opinion.
It's kind of neutral.
It's kind of just presentingthese things and kind of being
like, look at these things.
Look at where they're now kindof thing, you know, like a
little bit at the end.
And it was, it was a little moreneutral.
Whereas some documentaries thatI've, I've seen, you know,
otherwise can be very much, youcan tell which side they're kind
of leaning on.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so I think it was more inthe neutral kind of, kind of,
(22:17):
yeah.
You know, stance.
Yeah.
And it, it, it really was, youknow what really was so
fascinating about this case, andI, I, like, I was, I was saying
this to erin,'cause we talkabout this before, is I didn't
really understand why it wassuch a, it was global.
Mm-hmm.
Global news.
I mean, it was like jokes arebeing made a late night shows
like everybody knew balloon boy,balloon boy.
(22:37):
That became like a moniker, youknow, like just everywhere.
Everywhere.
And, um.
I think the general consensuswas that, wow, this guy just
faked it.
Like, and that's it.
We're just gonna keep going withthat.
Right.
But if you think about it, Imean, I was reading a few
articles that were like, Hey,you know, the media actually,
you know, I know that thishappened so quickly, but they
kind of sensationalized it aswell too.
(22:57):
And they didn't necessarily vetall their sources when they put
it everywhere.
You know, and why were we sofascinated with it and mm-hmm.
You know, kind of that type oflens, I guess, on it too.
So.
Yeah, there's, there's thosethings to consider.
Also, it's not just, I mean,there's, there was a reason why
it was global because peoplewere like, wow, that's really
weird, you know?
(23:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, and the fact thatsay this, this was, this
happened to be something thatwas planned.
You know, the fact that this wassomething that, you know, I, the
father, Richard, he did use, if,if in this scenario, if this was
planned, that he would've usedthe.
Sympathy from like, oh my gosh,my son could die, kind of thing.
(23:40):
And the fact that he, but hedidn't.
He didn't put him in there.
Right.
You know, he didn't likeactually test this out.
I'm not saying that that wouldbe right, but I mean Right.
He wasn't looking to harm hisson.
But at the same point, thatwould've been really wrong to
have used that.
Right.
But I dunno, I think you and Iare on the same page when we
just sing.
Yeah, it doesn't seem to, Idon't know.
(24:01):
You see the video before when itwas released?
It did, yeah.
It seemed very, yeah.
Genuine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was hard to tell.
I mean, I know looking at itback, you're like, oh my gosh,
this family, they did it.
They, you know, but, and it isreally easy to look at him and
think like, oh yeah, he'ssomething, you know, he, he
(24:22):
definitely seems like the typethat would want the attention,
but.
It is really hard to, I don'tknow.
I, I have a hard time to fullybelieve that it's 100% a hoax.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
I just don't think there'senough, again, unless we're
missing something and I reallydon't, I really don't know what,
what evidence they had toconvict.
(24:43):
I, I don't understand what theyhad, because that would've been
hard to prove, I think.
Right.
But somehow.
They did.
So I, I don't know.
I'm just thinking like from alegal aspect, that just is a
little bizarre to me.
Yeah.
And at the end of thedocumentary, there was a hint,
which this didn't really helphis case too much, but he did
(25:04):
hint at like.
There might be something in theworks, like something seeing me
soon kind of thing.
Richard had said that, but Idon't know, maybe that's just
because it is, you know, likemaybe he's just a very, he's
someone who likes to share a lotof things, you know, his
eccentric style, and maybe he'sjust always attracted to like TV
because of that, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean he
would put on a whole hoax to getthere, right?
(25:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
So.
And to be honest, I wonder, I'mcurious if they have like a
YouTube channel or if they, youknow, have Instagram, because
that would be like the perfectway mm-hmm.
For them to, if, if he wasreally into this or to just
showcase some of these things.
Like now it's like everywhere,you know?
Mm-hmm.
Like back then it, it wouldn'thave been as much.
That's true.
So I'm kind of curious if hedoes or if maybe if he's not
(25:50):
like.
Maybe he's not that interestedin this.
Maybe he just really is kind offascinated by this stuff.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, he's a little bit of astumper for me, but I'm, I'm
curious to what he comes up withnext.
Yeah.
I, I really don't know.
I think this just kind of leftus a little bit, you know, of
wondering, like, we don't reallyknow, and I, I don't know why
(26:12):
it, it is, it was able to becalled a hoax so quickly and how
it was prosecuted.
I don't get it.
But I don't know.
Tell us what you think becausewe, you, you, you know, if
you're of a certain age, youprobably, you remember this or
you've definitely heard aboutit, mentioned in Right.
In certain references, likecultural references.
(26:33):
It was just in the zeitgeist.
It was everywhere.
And I mean, it, it really issomething, I think that it's
like that moment in time peoplecan point to and be like, oh,
balloon boy.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know some other, yeah.
'cause yeah, it was like, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm trying to think of one.
Yeah, I don't know what else wasgoing on around that time, but
Yeah.
But it was kind of, yeah, but Imean, I was thinking of just
like in general, like otherpoints that we can reference and
(26:55):
I couldn't even think of anotherone.
Oh, like, like COVID, you know,like that happened.
We knew it was around, I mean,obviously that was a different
thing.
You know, like kind of thosethings that are like points in
our mind references that werelike, yeah, oh yeah, I remember
that.
The OJ Simpson trial.
You know?
Yeah.
Like that kind of Cato thing.
Yeah.
But, uh, yeah, so let us knowwhat, what you think.
(27:20):
If there's things that we, maybewe don't.
Maybe we're not understanding.
Yeah.
Maybe we're not seeing adifferent perspective or
different, you know, kind ofevidence or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
That maybe we, we just didn'treally look at, but that is our
opinion and we're sticking toit.
So that's what, that's what it'sabout.
We just thought this was kind ofinteresting.
A nice, nice little break.
You know, the, the train wreckseries is, is pretty cool.
(27:41):
Has some, some good ones thatmaybe we'll look at some in the
future.
I don't know.
Yeah, I think I'll, I think I,I'll skip the poop cruise.
I don't wanna see that one.
I did watch that one and thatone was interesting.
It was gross, but it wasinteresting.
But yeah.
So now for our challengequestion, this one's gonna be
probably a little, a littlerough.
(28:02):
So in terms of just kind ofmaking the choice, so speaking
of in the spirit of, of Bloom,boy, if you had the choice
between.
Say you had to, or let's justsay you were incentivized, like
you were offered a large amountof money.
Okay.
I don't know, 5 million or so todo one of the three things.
(28:25):
Which would you choose?
So balloon boy be, be in thatballoon, you know, in that
little hatch thing or whatever.
Okay.
You know, with the same safetyprotocols, right?
None.
Yeah.
Yep.
Skydiving.
Okay.
Or, um, let's say, uh, bungeejumping, would you, A, would you
(28:46):
accept the challenge and B, whatwould you choose?
Okay, so I don't think I doballoon boy, because there's no
safety.
Safety.
You would just kind of like,what?
I don't even know what you'dhold onto and then the door
would fall.
Yeah.
It just seem like there's muchin there.
Yeah.
Bungee jumping.
I don't know.
I always think of my uncle whenbungee jumping when I was
(29:09):
younger and he used to alwaysshow the same video from like a
fair, some fair in New York, butcarnival or something, I don't
know.
And skydiving, I don't know.
I always get worried, like youalways hear like the people
skydiving class or something.
Someone falls out.
I think of the choices, I'dprobably pick skydiving because
(29:29):
it's really scary, but.
You're with a, hopefully you'rewith somebody that knows what
they're doing.
It's all been checked and stufflike that.
And it's not scary, I don'tthink It's super scary the whole
time because then it's likeslows down and I think, you
know, I've never been, I knowyou've been right or you, but,
so I think I would probably doskydiving for the 5 million.
(29:53):
Yeah.
I, I would choose, I wouldchoose that again, I think.
Yeah, because I.
I actually do wanna go skydivingagain.
So I would, I would do it.
Yeah.
Like, and I really had a goodtime with it, the balloon boy
thing.
I agree with you.
That does not seem safe at all.
And you could just fly right outof there.
And knowing me, I would, andbungee jumping.
I used to think I wanted to dothat, but I'm, I'm kind of not,
(30:15):
I don't know.
Something is kind of, as I getolder and I'm not into it, so
Yeah.
Tied by your ankle, being tiedby your ankles or whatever they
do, it just doesn't seem fun.
You know?
It's just like, yeah.
And to me that's like jumpingoff a bridge.
You're just attached to a rope.
I don't know.
Yeah, I, I'm not gonna say Iwouldn't ever do that, but like
I, if I had the choice, I woulddefinitely choose skydiving.
Yeah.
'cause it was fun.
(30:35):
It was very, very fun.
You felt like you're flying.
So, and you definitely have tobe, if you haven't done a
certain amount of dives, youhave to be in tandem with
someone who is very experienced.
Like you have to be like,there's not really, as far as I
know, in, in most countries, youknow, that's kind of what it's
in the United States, so.
Yeah.
Well that is, so I guess thatwasn't really tough.
(30:56):
It was more just kind of likethinking about it.
Um, but, you know, kind oflittle, little adventure
question and, and the, the 5million doesn't hurt.
Right.
You know?
No.
Makes sense.
No, it kind of makes, makes it alittle bit easier too, to be
afraid because I didn't wannamake it a question like, oh, if
you had to do it.
'cause it's like, okay, in whatinstance would you have to do
that?
Yeah.
But um, right.
Yeah.
A little fun treat there, butyeah.
(31:18):
So that is balloon boy.
Let us know your take.
Let us know your answer to thechallenge question.
If you want.
Let us know any and all things.
Any questions?
Mm-hmm.
Any suggestions?
We love to hear it.
We are on all platforms,including YouTube.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so you can see my messyoffice right now because
something keeps zooming out withmy camera and I just don't care
(31:40):
to fix it anymore.
So, uh, yeah, but we will betaking a short break so we will
have some kind of oldies butgoodies, reruns for a few weeks.
Mm-hmm.
I will be motorcycling aroundEurope and during this heat wave
and, but I am very, very excitedfor that and that should be fun.
Yeah.
(32:00):
So.
Yeah.
And yeah.
So yeah, I think we'll be back.
Yeah.
And I'll be, um, I'll beradioactive during that time.
I'll be getting And erin will beradioactive.
Yeah.
I'll be getting, um, radiationfor my thyroid.
So we'll be back.
Yeah.
I think like September.
But I'll have stuff released.
We'll release stuff in between,you know, you'll some oldies,
(32:21):
like Tanya said, some oldies.
What oldies, what goodies, uh,reruns.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Things that maybe are kind of,you know, trending for this time
of year that we think you mightenjoy to, to hear again.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, um, we hope you have agood rest of the summer.
I mean, and still enjoylistening to us as well, um, you
know, in the, in the meantimewith our reruns.
(32:44):
But you take care and don'tforget, stay wicked and keep
your mind well.
All right.
Well talk to you soon.
All right.
Bye-bye.
Bye guys.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday to the Wicked
Psychotherapist Podcast.
(33:05):
Be sure to like and follow us onApple, Spotify, and Amazon, or
wherever else you listen to yourpodcasts.
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